The Excellance of Dusty Baker

[Chip R]

Considering that a lot of fans and media criticized Dusty for not only pitching Arroyo in Game 2 but criticized him for pitching him at all and criticized Dusty for starting Rolen instead of Frazier at 3rd on Sunday, I think a lot of those same fans and media may want to step back and admit they just may not know more than Dusty after all.

It's a results game to be sure. But give credit where and when credit is due. If Jay Bruce hits a 3-0 pitch out for a home run in the bottom of the 9th inning to win the game for the Reds, are people actually going to criticize him and the manager for not taking on 3-0?

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool

The players have done good work, and deserve the lion's share of the credit. Their success has masked a lot of Dusty's shortcomings (like having two terrible OBP hitters batting at the top of the lineup all season).

You can't just heap praise based on results without evaluating the process.

Shuffle the cards, likely similar results. The team does not have two top of the order guys on the roster, so what was he supposed to do? I know, Ryan Hanigan as folks blindly look at high OBP.

Dusty has managed the bullpen masterfully all season and helped the team navigate through losing their star for 1/3 of the season by performing better than they have with him. Sorry, your criticisms sound like sour grapes and nitpicking at this stage.

[lollipopcurve]

Here's a team that won 97 games and is on the verge of playing in the NLCS, and you'll still get plenty of posters giving Baker and Jocketty Bs and Cs.

Critics know everything.

[Superdude]

Originally Posted by traderumor

Shuffle the cards, likely similar results. The team does not have two top of the order guys on the roster, so what was he supposed to do? I know, Ryan Hanigan as folks blindly look at high OBP.

I can't understand this criticism either. He's maybe had a past of dumb lineup decisions, but this team isn't exactly laden with great top of the order options. You could certainly tweak it, but I don't think flip flopping Hanigan and Cozart is the answer to all our problems.

[OldRightHander]

If they win it all this year, ten years from now most fans will have forgotten all about the lineups and Dusty will be enshrined in most fans' hearts right next to Lou and Sparky.

[Johnny Footstool]

Originally Posted by lollipopcurve

Here's a team that won 97 games and is on the verge of playing in the NLCS, and you'll still get plenty of posters giving Baker and Jocketty Bs and Cs.

Critics know everything.

Jocketty gets an A. He put together a pitching staff so deep it was Dusty-proof. He put all the pieces in place, and made some significant improvements to last year's roster.

I won't apologize for not jumping on the bandwagon full of Dusty acolytes, though.

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool

Jocketty gets an A. He put together a pitching staff so deep it was Dusty-proof. He put all the pieces in place, and made some significant improvements to last year's roster.

I won't apologize for not jumping on the bandwagon full of Dusty acolytes, though.

What about those who have held out all along that he's a good manager, all things considered, which would be my category? Am I just blind in one eye and can't see out of the other?

We could start "the excellence of Bryan Price" thread so I could go digging out the calls for his head last year, now that he has reached genius status in these parts as well. Then we could see some real leaps.

[mdccclxix]

Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool

Jocketty gets an A. He put together a pitching staff so deep it was Dusty-proof. He put all the pieces in place, and made some significant improvements to last year's roster.

I won't apologize for not jumping on the bandwagon full of Dusty acolytes, though.

Dusty's critics are often insulting to the man...I find that to be the most corrosive aspect to all this. People just like to take shots at him, I guess it's his cartoon name and unapologetic style. Reds fans haven't been so lucky in years. Dusty is a HOF manager, and his critics need to get a grip.

I wish the local media would actually kill this issue, but it is still divisive - so they won't. Lance could just come out and say to everyone the blatant and obvious fact - "You are not smarter than Dusty Baker. Period." I guess that might help everyone clear this up.

[lollipopcurve]

I won't apologize for not jumping on the bandwagon full of Dusty acolytes, though.

If anything, the religious imagery should be applied to the haters. That is, anti-Dustyism is an ideology that, despite plenty of evidence that he can guide a team to excellent results, preaches that as a result of his having espoused certain "old school beliefs" he can never be considered a good manager.

[Scrap Irony]

Baker, IMO, has built a pen out of spare parts. He tinkered early, moving Marshall from closer to set-up. He used LeCure and Simon almost perfectly. His starters survived all year and were never overworked. No pen arm struggled with overuse. The only questionable arm used all year (for any length of time) was Ondrusek. While Jocketty deserves a lion's share of credit (as do the players), so too does Baker.

Out of two rookie starters (Cozart and Frazier) and a rookie reserve (Mesoraco), he found All-Star level production at two spots. He also found a way to weather a six-week loss of his MVP candidate and not only survive, but blow open the NL Central. He was able to also weather injuries to his All-Star 2B, his starting 3B (three different injuries), and his LF (who, btw, found renewed success after three years of struggle under other managers in other cities).

And the team he managed won 97 games.

What more do you want?

[edabbs44]

Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool

Jocketty gets an A. He put together a pitching staff so deep it was Dusty-proof. He put all the pieces in place, and made some significant improvements to last year's roster.

I won't apologize for not jumping on the bandwagon full of Dusty acolytes, though.

Which would be amazing as many (unsure if you are in this population) were destroying Walt early in the season, the roster was completely flawed, no lefties, bench was awful, Chapman should be starting, etc.

Be that as it may, many are quick to jump on Dusty when things don't go right so why doesn't he get praise when things work out?

[Johnny Footstool]

I do love how this thread went from "Dusty did a great job managing the two games in San Francisco" to "Dusty is a HOF manager and anyone who disagrees is just spouting sour grapes."

[Caveat Emperor]

I can't wait to see this thread tomorrow after Mike Leake pitches. Grab your popcorn.

[Brutus]

Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor

I can't wait to see this thread tomorrow after Mike Leake pitches. Grab your popcorn.

You're really putting yourself out there aren't you?

[mdccclxix]

Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool

I do love how this thread went from "Dusty did a great job managing the two games in San Francisco" to "Dusty is a HOF manager and anyone who disagrees is just spouting sour grapes."

There is a mixture of players, managers and front office people that have combined to create this awesome team. I don't know why people try to rob Dusty of his role in the success, the results. You can only extract so much before it makes you look like you're slanting things in a biased way. Everyone deserves credit in as much as the credit is theirs to claim - and again, it's not cut and dry. But, ask the players, ask the GM, ask the owner, Dusty Baker deserves a lot of credit. Leaving him out in the cold is sour grapes.