Your Offseason Plan in 3 Moves or Less - Page 3 - RedsZone.com - Cincinnati Reds Fans' Home for Baseball Discussion

Wonderful Monds · 11-13-2012, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kc61

1.37 WHIP for a reliever isn't very good. In the second half Arredondo had a 4.21 ERA and a 1.558 WHIP. He was pretty bad in the second half. Maybe he'll rebound, but I wouldn't bet the Reds' season on it.

As for the "best bullpen in the league" last year, it might have been when you include Chapman's 15.3 Ks per nine innings; his .809 WHIP; his 1.51 ERA in 71.2 innings. Take those stellar numbers out, I don't agree.

Frankly, other than Chapman and Marshall, I though the bullpen was just ok. I don't think Lecure, Simon, Ondrusek, an injured Bray, and Arredondo is a particularly good pen.

Hoover could be good, he was in AAA most of the year. Broxton helped, but he's a FA.

You think that's enough without Chapman? I don't.

Without Chapman, I think another healthy solid late inning guy is imperative.

I imagine most teams' bullpens aren't very good if you disregard their two best pitchers.

Kc61 · 11-13-2012, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds

I imagine most teams' bullpens aren't very good if you disregard their two best pitchers.

Correct. I agree.

But in the Reds' case, posters are suggesting a bullpen without Chapman. So one of those two best relievers won't be there.

That's the situation we are discussing. Replacing Chapman with a guy coming off TJ surgery. That's the discussion.

Wonderful Monds · 11-13-2012, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kc61

Correct. I agree.

But in the Reds' case, posters are suggesting a bullpen without Chapman. So one of those two best relievers won't be there.

That's the situation we are discussing. Replacing Chapman with a guy coming off TJ surgery. That's the discussion.

Oh right, lol. I agree with that then.

Benihana · 11-13-2012, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corkedbat

1. Re-sign Ryan Ludwick or acquire Josh Willingham or Shin-Soo Choo
2. Acquire Dexter Fowler or Denard Span or sign Angel Pagan or Shane Victorino
3. Sign Ryan Madson or Jokim Soria freeing Chapman for the rotation

Congrats- you have given your offseason plan in 9 moves

thatcoolguy_22 · 11-13-2012, 11:15 PM

1. Trade Hamilton+ for Stanton
2. Sign Bourn
3. Sign Madson

Marlins have no reason to trade Stanton but he will be expensive in a few years and Loria might want to just get a head start. Plus if they could see Hamilton as a SS.

corkedbat · 11-14-2012, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kc61

Correct. I agree.

But in the Reds' case, posters are suggesting a bullpen without Chapman. So one of those two best relievers won't be there.

That's the situation we are discussing. Replacing Chapman with a guy coming off TJ surgery. That's the discussion.

If Chapman goes to the pen, then Cingrani should be the second lefty.

Add Broxton/Madson/Soria to:

Marshall
Hoover
Cingrani
Massett
Arredondo/Simon
Lecure

...and you still have one of the best bullpens in baseball.

corkedbat · 11-14-2012, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benihana

Congrats- you have given your offseason plan in 9 moves

No, basically I said:

1. LF
2. CF
3. High-leverage reliever to facilitate Chapman to the rotation

M2 · 11-14-2012, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_

I'd rather bring back Taveras, Patterson and Edmonds before I want the Reds to even THINK about Nyjer Morgan. He is the definition of a clubhouse cancer.

Yeah, remember how he sabotaged the Brewers in 2011? Oh wait ...

mth123 · 11-14-2012, 04:51 AM

I think payroll limitations make most of the moves suggested here a little unrealistic. The Reds, as is, with all free agents off the books, but bonus money, raises and arb awards included, are probably a little over $90 Million and I'm not sure they'll go much above $95 Million (about a $10 Million or roughly 12% increase from 2012). I like the Morgan idea, but I'll hold that back for a fall back option. Improvement needs to come at the margins without a lot of subtractions from the major league team or dealing any of the top 5 prospects IMO.

1. Kyle Lotzkar and David Vidal to the Cubs for David Dejesus
2. Nick Masset, Henry Rodriguez, Neftali Soto and Ryan LaMarre to the Orioles for Wilson Betemit and Pedro Strop
3. Sign J.P Howell to a 2 year, $7 Million contract ($2.5 Million in 2013 and $3.5 Million in 2014, option for 2015 for $5 Million with a $1 Million buy-out)

2013 Payroll goes up around $6 Million as a result of the deals. (Add Dejesus $4.25, Howell $2.5, Betemit $1.75, Strop $.5 and subtract Masset $3.1 = $5.9 Million)

Vs. RHP/Vs LHP

Dejesus/Stubbs CF
Phillips 2B
Votto 1B
Frazier LF/Frazier 3B
Bruce RF
Betemit 3B/Heisey LF
Cozart SS
Hanigan/Mesoraco C (Not a lefty/righty Platoon)

Paul LHPH/OF
Gregorious IF (Plays SS against RHP a couple times per week)

Latos
Cueto
Bailey
Arroyo
Chapman

Leake (Swingman)
Arredondo RMR but used as a LOOGY much of the time
Lecure RMR
Howell LMR
Hoover RHSU
Marshall LHSU
Strop Closer

Vottomatic · 11-14-2012, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vottomatic

Chapman, Corcino, Neftali Soto, Lutz, Yorman Rodriguez to Marlins for Giancarlo Stanton.

Heisey and Sharky Rogers to Indians for 1 year rental of Choo.
Re-sign Madson and Broxton for bullpen.

CF Choo
2B Phillips
1B Votto
LF Stanton
RF Bruce
3B Frazier
C Hanigan/Navarro
SS Cozart

SP Cueto
SP Latos
SP Arroyo
SP Bailey
SP Leake

CL Madson
RP Broxton
RP Marshall
RP Hoover
RP Arredondo
RP Ondrusek
RP Lecure

Yeah. See. My idea of trading for Stanton isn't quite so ridiculous now, eh?

Oh........those pitiful Marlins.

_Sir_Charles_ · 11-14-2012, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nate

1. Turn off "fair trades"
2. Trade all our less than awesome players for awesome players
3. Turn on "fair trades"

ROFL!!! :O) That was great Nate. Thanks, I needed that.

Dan · 11-14-2012, 09:11 AM

1. Hamilton/Cingrani for Giancarlo Stanton

Oh, I'm sorry, did you want more?

bucksfan2 · 11-14-2012, 10:09 AM

Wait. Some guys are going to get paid contracts they shouldn't get. Guys like Tori Hunter and Swisher are going to get contracts they won't live up to.

1. Sign Ryan Madsen to a 1 year $6M deal.
2. Sign Youkilis to a 2 year $18M deal.
3. Sign Grady Sizemore to a 1 year $1.5M deal that is incentive laden.

I would also kick the tires on trading Stubbs + to the Cubs for Dejesus. Status quo in CF isn't the solution this year. If they can catch lightening in a bottle next year with Sizemore then its one heck of a deal. If not its a small investment. Youk sends Frazier out into LF, a spot I think he can become a good all around player. Having Frazier allows Youk to get needed days off at 3b and also helps Votto get time off at 1b. I don't think Madsen is going to get paid next year because I don't think he will be right until mid June.

Cooper · 11-14-2012, 10:34 AM

Make a big move -the worst thing winning teams do is assume they are better than they are -this team may be a 91 win team where things broke their way and they became a 97 win team. Make a big splash and change the energy of the team.

In 2011, i felt like Walt didn't do shake things up enough.

There are certain positions that Dusty has a hard time wiring around -he gets stuck -make sure those positions are filled with viable major league players or you might see Dusty run .463 OPS out there 4 times a week.

Lastly, support Devin Mesaroco's growth. I believe he has an OPS of .850 in him. How do we get that out while making sure the pitchers don't lose their minds? A catcher gets a rep and he can't break it until he's on the other side of 32, whereby he becomes an all knowing grizzled veteran. Something happened last year and he got pushed back -i'm not sure that helped the team on a long term basis. A catcher with his batting stats don't come along often - getting all you can out of him becomes this organizations number 1A developmental issue (behind the great BH).

M2 · 11-14-2012, 10:53 AM

Cooper, great post.

11-13-2012, 11:15 PM	#35
thatcoolguy_22 Battle Toad Historian Join Date: May 2006 Location: Pyeongtaek, ROK Posts: 1,644	Re: Your Offseason Plan in 3 Moves or Less 1. Trade Hamilton+ for Stanton 2. Sign Bourn 3. Sign Madson Marlins have no reason to trade Stanton but he will be expensive in a few years and Loria might want to just get a head start. Plus if they could see Hamilton as a SS. __________________ A lil more east than most on this board.

11-14-2012, 04:51 AM	#39
mth123 The Big Dog Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 12,708	Re: Your Offseason Plan in 3 Moves or Less I think payroll limitations make most of the moves suggested here a little unrealistic. The Reds, as is, with all free agents off the books, but bonus money, raises and arb awards included, are probably a little over $90 Million and I'm not sure they'll go much above $95 Million (about a $10 Million or roughly 12% increase from 2012). I like the Morgan idea, but I'll hold that back for a fall back option. Improvement needs to come at the margins without a lot of subtractions from the major league team or dealing any of the top 5 prospects IMO. 1. Kyle Lotzkar and David Vidal to the Cubs for David Dejesus 2. Nick Masset, Henry Rodriguez, Neftali Soto and Ryan LaMarre to the Orioles for Wilson Betemit and Pedro Strop 3. Sign J.P Howell to a 2 year, $7 Million contract ($2.5 Million in 2013 and $3.5 Million in 2014, option for 2015 for $5 Million with a $1 Million buy-out) 2013 Payroll goes up around $6 Million as a result of the deals. (Add Dejesus $4.25, Howell $2.5, Betemit $1.75, Strop $.5 and subtract Masset $3.1 = $5.9 Million) Vs. RHP/Vs LHP Dejesus/Stubbs CF Phillips 2B Votto 1B Frazier LF/Frazier 3B Bruce RF Betemit 3B/Heisey LF Cozart SS Hanigan/Mesoraco C (Not a lefty/righty Platoon) Paul LHPH/OF Gregorious IF (Plays SS against RHP a couple times per week) Latos Cueto Bailey Arroyo Chapman Leake (Swingman) Arredondo RMR but used as a LOOGY much of the time Lecure RMR Howell LMR Hoover RHSU Marshall LHSU Strop Closer __________________ "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS Last edited by mth123; 11-14-2012 at 04:59 AM.

11-14-2012, 09:11 AM	#42
Dan OlafTheBlack Join Date: May 2000 Location: Woodbridge, VA Posts: 2,039	Re: Your Offseason Plan in 3 Moves or Less 1. Hamilton/Cingrani for Giancarlo Stanton Oh, I'm sorry, did you want more? __________________ Genius\|Madness "Somebody will be bigger, stronger and faster than you, growing up," Griffey said with a shrug. "So why worry about it? As long as you don't let them outwork you, and you can look yourself in the mirror, then that's all you should worry about. Never worry about what somebody else is doing."

11-14-2012, 10:09 AM	#43
bucksfan2 Waitin til next year Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 9,620	Re: Your Offseason Plan in 3 Moves or Less Wait. Some guys are going to get paid contracts they shouldn't get. Guys like Tori Hunter and Swisher are going to get contracts they won't live up to. 1. Sign Ryan Madsen to a 1 year $6M deal. 2. Sign Youkilis to a 2 year $18M deal. 3. Sign Grady Sizemore to a 1 year $1.5M deal that is incentive laden. I would also kick the tires on trading Stubbs + to the Cubs for Dejesus. Status quo in CF isn't the solution this year. If they can catch lightening in a bottle next year with Sizemore then its one heck of a deal. If not its a small investment. Youk sends Frazier out into LF, a spot I think he can become a good all around player. Having Frazier allows Youk to get needed days off at 3b and also helps Votto get time off at 1b. I don't think Madsen is going to get paid next year because I don't think he will be right until mid June.

11-14-2012, 10:34 AM	#44
Cooper Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Richmond, Indiana Posts: 1,593	Re: Your Offseason Plan in 3 Moves or Less Make a big move -the worst thing winning teams do is assume they are better than they are -this team may be a 91 win team where things broke their way and they became a 97 win team. Make a big splash and change the energy of the team. In 2011, i felt like Walt didn't do shake things up enough. There are certain positions that Dusty has a hard time wiring around -he gets stuck -make sure those positions are filled with viable major league players or you might see Dusty run .463 OPS out there 4 times a week. Lastly, support Devin Mesaroco's growth. I believe he has an OPS of .850 in him. How do we get that out while making sure the pitchers don't lose their minds? A catcher gets a rep and he can't break it until he's on the other side of 32, whereby he becomes an all knowing grizzled veteran. Something happened last year and he got pushed back -i'm not sure that helped the team on a long term basis. A catcher with his batting stats don't come along often - getting all you can out of him becomes this organizations number 1A developmental issue (behind the great BH).

11-14-2012, 10:53 AM	#45
M2 Posting in Dynarama Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Boston Posts: 26,668	Re: Your Offseason Plan in 3 Moves or Less Cooper, great post. __________________ Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong I'm witchcrafting everybody.

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