Ludwick Contract Offer/ Ludwick has deal with the Reds.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Originally Posted by REDREAD

and the two backup infielders are horrible.

Just out of curiosity, who are these 2 horrible backup infielders? Do you mean Cairo and Valdez? They're both gone. Right now it looks to be Didi and either Rolen or a rookie.

[cincrazy]

Originally Posted by Phhhl

There have been two things wrong with this offense for the last 3-4 years, leadoff hitter and a run producing right handed hitting masher to hit between Votto and Bruce. Ludwick finally solved one of these dilemnas last year, so just give him the 3 mil and be done with it. Refrain from signing Scott Rolen, some has been middle infield "wizard" and some 38 year old backup catcher and bring Ludwick back already. The system is stocked with guys that can fill the fringe roles the Reds so often waste their money on.

Surely the money is there to get this done. I am going to feel cheated if I don't get to see a healthy Votto hitting in front of that guy and Bruce next year. Without making a trade, there is nobody like Ludwick left out there and we'll be looking at going into next season with the same old offensive bugaboos that have been haunting us forever.

You really wanna give that much money to a leftfielder in his mid-30s who had a great 3 months last year, but outside of that has had a terrible last four years or so? I like Ludwick. I want him back. But ONLY at our price. If not, move on.

[jhu1321]

Originally Posted by cincrazy

You really wanna give that much money to a leftfielder in his mid-30s who had a great 3 months last year, but outside of that has had a terrible last four years or so? I like Ludwick. I want him back. But ONLY at our price. If not, move on.

I think Walt agrees with this sentiment and hasn't budged despite the crazy market for outfielders....... nor should he.

[Dan]

Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_

Just out of curiosity, who are these 2 horrible backup infielders? Do you mean Cairo and Valdez? They're both gone. Right now it looks to be Didi and either Rolen or a rookie.

I think HRod would work out in that backup role too. Actually I'd prefer him and Didi over Rolen. I'd love Rolen coming in as a coach. Maybe even groomed for manager when Dusty retires/is fired.

[lidspinner]

Originally Posted by jhu1321

I think Walt agrees with this sentiment and hasn't budged despite the crazy market for outfielders....... nor should he.

I think this is where Walt has to use the Billy Beane moneyball theory.....you have to look at his position and what production you could get from a cheaper rookie or vet......it seems to me we are trying to build this team around pitching and defense....if thats the case does RL really bring that good of a defense to the table to where you have to overpay for his services? could you toss in a solid defense guy out there but give up a little in offense and still help this team? thats the angle that Walt is looking at I am sure......I hope we start seeing a bigger trend of getting younger guys up to the big club quicker, we dont want a squad full of these guys but if saving the RL money and using a cheaper LF'er allows us to add more pitching or add a better CF'er then I say you have to do it......

[Bumstead]

Time to move on. I don't understand why we would want to invest 2 years into a 34 year old OF that has had 1 decent season out of the last 5 years. Isn't Nick Swisher out there? If you are going to pay a guy in their 30's for 2 years, I would rather it be on someone that is relatively consistently solid.

Bum

[REDREAD]

Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_

Just out of curiosity, who are these 2 horrible backup infielders? Do you mean Cairo and Valdez? They're both gone. Right now it looks to be Didi and either Rolen or a rookie.

I was just saying , hypothetically, if spending a little more on Ludwick meant we had no money to replace Valdez/Cario and had to use people making minimum salary, I'd be ok with that.
I don't want Didi on the roster next year, I want him in AAA if he's a legit future starter.

Rolen is a good example.. Maybe giving Ludwick extra money means we have nothing left to give Rolen. I'm ok with that.

[klw]

Kevin Youkilis must decide whether to accept a two-year, $18MM contract to play for Terry Francona and the Indians or take a one-year, $12MM deal to play for the Yankees, ESPN.com’s Buster Olney writes (on Twitter).

Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#FPSKQsGo07uAjUGW.99

This is the sort of rumor that must be giving Mr. Ludwick pause as he makes his choice.

[Kc61]

The Reds should sign Ludwick even for slightly more money.

They should sign a platoon CF to play against righties.

They should sign at least one solid utility infielder. They do exist.

They should sign a lefty reliever to fill out the bullpen.

Folks who think this is too much to ask are living in the non-contender years.

This is a modest list. The Reds are contenders. The scrap heap days should be over.

I am not saying they should take on Juston Upton's salary. But Ludwick, a platoon CF, and two backup players is a fair expectation for a contender in the off-season.

[Steve4192]

Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_

Just out of curiosity, who are these 2 horrible backup infielders? Do you mean Cairo and Valdez? They're both gone. Right now it looks to be Didi and either Rolen or a rookie.

I don't want Didi or HRod on the bench in Cincinnati. I want them playing every day in Louisville and getting called up in the event of a DL stint for one of the big league starters. Neither of those guys showed they are ready to leave AAA behind yet. They both need to prove they can dominate at that level before they get the call to the majors.

[PuffyPig]

Originally Posted by Kc61

The Reds should sign Ludwick even for slightly more money.

They should sign a platoon CF to play against righties.

They should sign at least one solid utility infielder. They do exist.

They should sign a lefty reliever to fill out the bullpen.

Folks who think this is too much to ask are living in the non-contender years.

This is a modest list. The Reds are contenders. The scrap heap days should be over.

I am not saying they should take on Juston Upton's salary. But Ludwick, a platoon CF, and two backup players is a fair expectation for a contender in the off-season.

Boom.

[M2]

Originally Posted by Kc61

Folks who think this is too much to ask are living in the non-contender years.

This is a modest list. The Reds are contenders. The scrap heap days should be over.

I agree with the sentiment. if anything, it's even a little too conservative a list. Ludwick was a nice surprise last season, but I'm not sure he's got a repeat of it in him. I'd like to see the team's main position player move be someone better than Ludwick. Then, even if Ludwick comes back, the Reds have some added cushion in case Ludwick slumps.

[klw]

Originally Posted by Bumstead

Time to move on. I don't understand why we would want to invest 2 years into a 34 year old OF that has had 1 decent season out of the last 5 years. Isn't Nick Swisher out there? If you are going to pay a guy in their 30's for 2 years, I would rather it be on someone that is relatively consistently solid.

Bum

Do you still want Swisher?

While the Indians are hoping to sign Swisher to a four-year deal in the $48-50MM range, his market has shifted and he might now command a four-year, $60MM contract, Jim Bowden of ESPN.com and MLB Network Radio reports (on Twitter).

Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/1...D2QbHYbjvTf.99

[Benihana]

What's great about one year of Bourn is the Reds don't give up any prospects (they could still use to trade for Myers who is locked up long term and won't cost much payroll) and then we could give Bourn a qualifying offer in the offseason, which he'll surely turn down in order to get his long term deal. More draft picks for us.

On second thought, signing him does mean forfeiting a pick this year as he turned down his qualifying offer from the Braves.

[PuffyPig]

Originally Posted by Benihana

On second thought, signing him does mean forfeiting a pick this year as he turned down his qualifying offer from the Braves.

The team signing Bourne forfeits a pick because was Bourne was given a qualifying offer. If he had accepted, he wouldn't be a FA.