Ludwick offer

[Hondo]

Originally Posted by OneManBand

His buddy Latos plays for the Reds. So why this is taking as long as it has is beyond me. The fact that teams are interested in him is great.. But who will give him playing time and a chance to win? If money is what he wants then take the said 3 Million extra annually. But don't say you want to stay here and then drag your feet. The organization wants you here, and you want to be here.. They should not be far apart then. Ludwick signed a contract last year and declined the option that would pay him 5 Million. So why not a 2 Year 16 Million dollar deal with year one being 7 and 2014 is 9 million?

I'm not a huge fan of the idea as I'd prefer a better option then a player who had one good season after quite frankly falling off the face of the baseball earth. But if the Reds are confident he can repeat an become a solid #4 hitter between Votto and Bruce.. So be it.

Apparently you guys don't know that Shane Victornio signed for $39 Million over 3 years so that's $13 Million Per Year.

REPEAT $13 MILLION PER YEAR.

Ludwick is going to want at least $10 Million per year... They say that he can get $3 Million More per year somewhere else... This is simple math.

PASS...

[OneManBand]

Originally Posted by Hondo

Apparently you guys don't know that Shane Victornio signed for $39 Million over 3 years so that's $13 Million Per Year.

REPEAT $13 MILLION PER YEAR.

Ludwick is going to want at least $10 Million per year... They say that he can get $3 Million More per year somewhere else... This is simple math.

PASS...

Shane Victorino & Ludwick are two different players. Shane has out played Ludwick over the course of 3-4 years. I'm with you on passing as I feel money can be spent elsewhere. But then again if we are going to throw 7 mllion a year on average to someone who may or may not close who am I to tell a organization what to do with their money.

[americanoutlaw1]

Millions of dollars are on the line for this man. It is perfectly acceptable and understandable that he is taking his time and weighing all of his options

[OneManBand]

Originally Posted by americanoutlaw1

Millions of dollars are on the line for this man. It is perfectly acceptable and understandable that he is taking his time and weighing all of his options

Especially because he is waiting to hear back from Cleveland. I mean he wanted to come here last year. I guarantee if he signs with us he will say and I quote, "I always wanted to come back to Cincinnati."

[Hondo]

Originally Posted by OneManBand

Shane Victorino & Ludwick are two different players. Shane has out played Ludwick over the course of 3-4 years. I'm with you on passing as I feel money can be spent elsewhere. But then again if we are going to throw 7 mllion a year on average to someone who may or may not close who am I to tell a organization what to do with their money.

I has nothing to do with the type of players they are. Baseball is a what have you done for me lately world, and other than LaRoche and Pierzynski, Ludwick has the most HR of any Free Agent and you really can't expext A.J. Pierzynski to keep up that HR output next year so really Ludwick and LaRoche are the only 2 Power Hitter available and Ludwick being the only OF Power option so this is based on Supply and Demand.

Simply Put... Ludwick wants and deserves the most Money he can make... Maybe his Heart is in Cincinnati but the almighty dollar and capitalism will probably prevail in this situation. We're not talking about the difference between $180 Million and $165 Million... We're talking $14 Million and $20 Million and for this being Ludwick's last chance to cash in... He's going to take the bigger paycheck and you can't blame him...

So while Victorino and Ludwick are indeed different players... I would argue hat Ludwick was a better ballplayer in 2012 than Victorino...

So yeah... Ludwick wants $10 Million per year. End of Story.

IMHO... I politely say "Pass."

[Alpha Zero]

Originally Posted by Hondo

and other than LaRoche and Pierzynski, Ludwick has the most HR of any Free Agent

... Josh Hamilton?

Granted he's not a realistic option for the Reds, but I think you forgot him.

[Hondo]

Originally Posted by Alpha Zero

... Josh Hamilton?

Granted he's not a realistic option for the Reds, but I think you forgot him.

Yes Josh Hamilton... In the market for budgets, I was not including Hamilton.

Uhm, also... it's funny that that was the only response you had from my post. It's kinda like when you're arguing points with a girlfriend or wife and then she brings up something from left field and your conversation was in the realm of Football... Congratulations.

[Alpha Zero]

Originally Posted by Hondo

Yes Josh Hamilton... In the market for budgets, I was not including Hamilton.

Uhm, also... it's funny that that was the only response you had from my post. It's kinda like when you're arguing points with a girlfriend or wife and then she brings up something from left field and your conversation was in the realm of Football... Congratulations.

No insult intended, I was just pointing out that there is another bopper on the market. I also didn't add much else since I tend to agree with your larger point. From the beginning, I've said I wouldn't go higher than 2 years and $14MM for Ludwick. Based on what other guys have been getting paid, it looks like he's going to be offered more than that by someone else. If that's the case, then so be it. With the prices on FA outfielders, the Reds would be better served by exploring the trade market.

[Hondo]

Originally Posted by Alpha Zero

No insult intended, I was just pointing out that there is another bopper on the market. I also didn't add much else since I tend to agree with your larger point. From the beginning, I've said I wouldn't go higher than 2 years and $14MM for Ludwick. Based on what other guys have been getting paid, it looks like he's going to be offered more than that by someone else. If that's the case, then so be it. With the prices on FA outfielders, the Reds would be better served by exploring the trade market.

I am really sarastic.

[Larkin88]

Ludwick re-signing pending physical.

2 years/$15 MM. Mutual option for the third year, but I haven't seen the dollars on that.

Read more

[Hondo]

Originally Posted by Larkin88

Ludwick re-signing pending physical.

2 years/$15 MM. Mutual option for the third year, but I haven't seen the dollars on that.

Read more

Apparently I was wrong about Ludwick... He took less to remain with the Reds.

IMHO, I wish he would've took the higher money somewhere else because I would've liked the $7.5 Million Invested to get a Lead-Off Hitter or a Mashing LF.

[Mutaman]

Originally Posted by Hondo

IMHO, I wish he would've took the higher money somewhere else because I would've liked the $7.5 Million Invested to get a Lead-Off Hitter or a Mashing LF.

Ludwick is smart, a hard worker, a class act, and perfectly fits the chemistry of this team. And chemistry is what this team has going for it.
yes we need a left handed hitter. but resigning ludwick was a very good investment.

[Hondo]

Originally Posted by Mutaman

Ludwick is smart, a hard worker, a class act, and perfectly fits the chemistry of this team. And chemistry is what this team has going for it.
yes we need a left handed hitter. but resigning ludwick was a very good investment.

Really? I would've rather spent $15 Million for a Serious Lead-Off Hitter than $7 Million on a LF.


The Reds need runners on base in front of Votto, Bruce, Phillips, etc...

This team's biggest weakness is no lead-off hitter, period.

[jmac]

Glad the Reds resigned Ludwick and I fully expect Walt to address the leadoff problem by ST.

[Larkin88]

Originally Posted by Hondo

Really? I would've rather spent $15 Million for a Serious Lead-Off Hitter than $7 Million on a LF.


The Reds need runners on base in front of Votto, Bruce, Phillips, etc...

This team's biggest weakness is no lead-off hitter, period.

Reading now its $7M a year with a $1M buy-out for the third year. So $15M guaranteed over three years. Haven't seen the dollars on the mutual option, though. Those are usually a little higher than the AAV of the contract.

In principle I don't diasgree with you Hondo. But I'd say the Reds offense has been marred by two big factors:

1) Nobody on base in front of Votto
2) No protection behind Votto (knowing Dusty won't bat Bruce there)

I totally agree with you that the OBP department is the more important of the two because of how prolific a hitter Joey is. But that prolificness is negated when the dude gets intentionally walked twice a night. To get the full value of guys in front of Joey, you need to have a few guys behind him. And honestly, I'm not sure that there was a better option for the dollars in free agency, especially since Ludwick came back under market value.

Now, of course, the Reds still need to fix issue #1 to get the full bang out of this Ludwick deal, otherwise we'll be an offense of five hole hitters like we were last year. I still am convinced that something happens this off-season to rectify that area, especially with how frequently Walt's been linked to leadoff guys really since last trade deadline.

My speculation still is that the Reds will address this through a trade. I don't think they wanted to pay market value on anyone for more than two years and, to my knowledge, none of the free agent leadoff guys have signed for fewer than 3 years or a total contract of less than $35M. I think they would rather trade away to get a guy who is already affordably under team control by contract than pay a premium for a bridge option until Billy gets here or in case he is uneffective when he does.

I'm not sure there was a guy to be had for one season, $15M. It might be Bourn now with the market drying up, but honestly, did anyone expect that? Would you have gambled on the wait and see route with a Boras client? I'm honestly on the fence there.

I'm wrong all the time, just thought I'd chime in.