No one to the hall this year

[RedEye]

Originally Posted by FlightRick

Not to pick on you, specifically, as I've had this come up in conversation a few times today. And my basic response each time was, "Why?"

No special reason, really. Maybe because he got 3,000 hits. But all the reasons you suggest for him not getting in are valid, too. In any case, I'm not too broken up that he didn't get in the first time. He'll get in eventually, IMO. I guess I just always had respect for the way he played the game -- even though I cursed him every time he came up against the Reds.

[powersackers]

He was intense and scrappy. I saw him stare Hunter Pence into the fetal position when Pence was a rookie and goofing off in BP at GABP.

[RedsBaron]

While it is not unprecedented for the writers to elect no one, I am sure the HOF isn't happy with this year's class. IIRC many years ago the HOF used a runoff procedure. I wonder if there will be a move to have a runoff election among those candidates who reach a certain threshold such as being in the top 5 or 10 of the initial voting or among those candidates who reached, say, at least 50% of the vote in the first ballot.

[traderumor]

Sosa is at least in the top 5 of PED induced power numbers. He's hitting over 60 homers three times during the same time frame, went from puny to body builder. I really don't get the debate, with his qualifications being as inflated as his body. Without PEDs, he's a skinny right fielder with a little bit of pop.

[edabbs44]

True story: a buddy on mine played ball in college, one year at a larger D1 school and then JUCO. When he was playing at the JUCO school he would work out with guys over the winter who were in the minors at the time. My buddy and I were talking about Piazza and how he was crushing it after being such a late round pick. He told me that these guys all said that he was all about roids. I remember kind of discounting it since the party line back in the day was that lifting weights didn't help in baseball. This guy left that school in 1996 and that was way before this whole thing exploded.

Circumstantial? Absolutely. But a hell of a coincidence.

[RedEye]

Originally Posted by powersackers

He was intense and scrappy. I saw him stare Hunter Pence into the fetal position when Pence was a rookie and goofing off in BP at GABP.

I've never been one for scrappiness or intensity as HOF qualifications. My opinion had more to do with 3,000 hits, a .360 lifetime OBP and amazing positional versatility -- at least to start.

[Crumbley]

Originally Posted by vaticanplum

I have mixed feelings about the HOF and I'm not even sure how I feel about certain people getting in. But the fact that these men have not been proven guilty of anything, that their whole careers went by without punishment, and now the writers of all people have anointed themselves as the ones to impose judgment and repercussions on them, because nobody else has found a way to do it legally...I think it's awful. It makes the Hall of Fame entry criteria even more ambiguous than it used to be (which I did not think possible). And that, frankly, makes the Hall of Fame kind of a joke.

The writers don't anoint themselves anything, the HoF does by giving them the power. Isn't the entire point of a voting process to impose judgment and repercussions? The union fought testing forever, which leads to unfortunate shadows of doubt on clean players.

But at the end of the day, we're talking about giving millionaires a plaque, no one is being "punished" by being temporarily denied a HoF induction.

[CySeymour]

Originally Posted by powersackers

4 WS titles. Dominate when it mattered most. Longevity. Leadership. There are more factors to the HoF than regular season stats. They matter of course but they are factors in an equation.

If you use those standards, then Ken Griffey Sr. should be a hall of famer. Longevity, leadership, and he has 3 World Series rings.

[vaticanplum]

Originally Posted by Crumbley

But at the end of the day, we're talking about giving millionaires a plaque, no one is being "punished" by being temporarily denied a HoF induction.

I don't agree. I think it's pretty clear that the writers are making a statement. And they chose to do this.

[Chip R]

Originally Posted by TRF

And for all those guys clamoring for Rose to be in there, remember, amphetamines are illegal. And he took a lot of them.

As is gambling.

[Chip R]

Originally Posted by Red in Chicago

Not everyone loved Sammy in Chicago. He wore out his welcome. His bunny hopping, self indulgent behavior wore thin in the clubhouse. Add to that his walking out on the last game of the year and corked bat incident, he was far from the patron saint some of the bleacher bums thought he was. I would say his pathetic appearance before congress played the biggest role in keeping his vote count so low. No sympathy from me - my least favorite Cub of all time.

I went to a Reds-Cubs series in CHI in 1996 and I thought for sure Sandberg would be the most popular Cub but Sosa - at that time - was more beloved than Sandberg. They just loved the guy.

I think in judging increase in body size, you have to remember that some of these guys who came from places like the Dominican Republic got bigger because of better nutrition. That's not to say they didn't get bigger because of PEDs but you have to take into account that they were eating better and working out better.

[edabbs44]

Originally Posted by Chip R

As is gambling.

Isn't it the bookie who is the one doing the illegal things, not the bettor?

[westofyou]

Originally Posted by edabbs44

Isn't it the bookie who is the one doing the illegal things, not the bettor?

If it's a player and it's in Vegas or a casino then no, just the player is in trouble (if it's a baseball game)

But the point is that baseball has made gambling illegal, and until recently greenies were "not", nor were steroids (by the game) illegal until recently.

So it is a grey area when someone says federally they are illegal, but the game didn't recognize that law (as the teams had jars of pills in the clubhouse while the Stones sang Mothers Little Helper)

[RedsManRick]

I think Jason Stark nails it.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/hof13/story/_...b-hall-fame-be

[klw]

Originally Posted by edabbs44

True story: a buddy on mine played ball in college, one year at a larger D1 school and then JUCO. When he was playing at the JUCO school he would work out with guys over the winter who were in the minors at the time. My buddy and I were talking about Piazza and how he was crushing it after being such a late round pick. He told me that these guys all said that he was all about roids. I remember kind of discounting it since the party line back in the day was that lifting weights didn't help in baseball. This guy left that school in 1996 and that was way before this whole thing exploded.

Circumstantial? Absolutely. But a hell of a coincidence.

At the time (98) Piazza said it was supplements and weights.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/bas...ngrecords.html

In the clubhouse of the Mariners, who last year hit more home runs than any club in history (264), fat canisters of creatine are piled above lockers like cords of wood. Creatine monohydrate is a naturally occurring compound consisting of three amino acids. In nontechnical terms, it's fuel for muscles. A study by Penn State's Center for Sports Medicine found that members of a control group taking creatine grew stronger after just seven days.

"Three or four years ago, the nutritional supplement market for baseball players didn't even exist," says Dave Rose, a manager with Champion Nutrition of Concord, Calif., which supplies several major league teams with a variety of nutritional additives. "Now it's gone crazy. The market for baseball is bigger than for football or basketball."

"Let's face it, guys get paid for home runs," Piazza says. "If you hit 30 home runs, nobody cares if you hit .250 doing it. That extra strength may be the difference of five to 10 feet—the difference between a ball being caught or going over the wall. Why wouldn't you lift and take supplements? You've got one time in your life to get it right. I want to get it right."

Piazza is the prototypical player of this new power generation. He was born 10 days before Denny McLain won his 30th game in 1968, the Year of the Pitcher. Only three major league players drove in 100 runs that season; in '97, Piazza was one of 35 players with at least 100 RBIs. No catcher has ever caught as many games (139) and batted higher than Piazza did last year, when he hit .362 (along with 40 home runs). Then he spent the off-season lifting weights with bronzed bodybuilders while his personal shopper-chef-nutritionist whipped up six meals a day for him: omelettes, pancakes, tuna, chicken, steak and, daily, a creatine shake. He reported to camp at 240 pounds, expecting the rigors of catching to wear him down to 225 by the end of the season. He says, "I want to go out and top last season."