2013 Bengals Discussion

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

The key has got to be limited up front money

Guaranteed money is guaranteed money, as soon as 35-40 million dollars is committed (a number he is sure to go after) he knows he doesn't have to work again off it alone.

[LoganBuck]

Originally Posted by KoryMac5

Peter King reported several teams are scared of paying Smith big money because they feel the signing bonus would effect his desire. Basically he will eat himself back to where he was when he first signed with the Bengals.

My guess is that is how the Bengals feel. Peter King has a pretty strong source in the Bengals FO, it might be Mike himself, if they don't trust his work ethic enough I get it.

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by bucksfan2

This kinda hurts to say it but ever since Marvin got here the Bengals have been operating how the good teams in the league operate. Now they may miss from time to time, extending Willie instead of Steinbach or Hall instead of JJ, but for the most part they have been doing a good job of extending the players that need to be extended. One thing to consider when they extended Hall, extending JJ would have been a massive commitment to the secondary, one that isn't necessarily a smart move.

I want to see them extend Andre but wouldn't be upset if they though Collins could do just as good of a job. One thing to consider is this draft is thought to have depth in the OL and have a lot of value in the later 1st and into the 2nd round. Would you want Andre signed to limit what you could do to Green or Adkins?

The one reason I would like to see them sign Andre is that frees up the draft to address positions like S, RB, LB.

A write up by PFF last year on Collins...
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...nsive-tackles/

4) Anthony Collins, Cincinnati Bengals

Age as of 1st September, 2012: 26

2011 Grade: +4.3

Key Stat: In four complete games in the last two seasons has allowed only three pressures.

Behind the Numbers: That Collins ranks fourth among free agency tackles shows the depth, or lack thereof, in this tackle class. That is not to say that Collins isn’t a capable player, but with only five starts in the last two seasons, one of which saw him play only 14 snaps, his body of work is somewhat lacking. However Collins’ quality of play in those starts has been extremely impressive and, but for a No. 5 overall pick sitting above him on the depth chart demanding time to bed in, might have seen him earn more playing time. In his only extended stretch as a starter, 13 straight starts from Week 12 2008 to Week 9 2009, Collins proved to be an adequate starter and a team looking to fill a gap for the short term could get a pleasant surprise in Collins who with four years of experience at age 26 this season has plenty of tread left on his tires.

Bottom line is if I have 5 guys who will all command near 10 million each or above coming up (AJ, MJ, Geno, Dalton & possibly Dunlap), 50 million in cap space and I have the above sitting on the bench ready to play a spot where there is a questionable guy wanting big money it's only smart business to pay market value or a bit less to retain the FA. IMO It's a gamble worth taking!

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by LoganBuck

Peter King and Dave Lapham are the two guys to listen to on Bengals draft thinking. King just tweeted that Mantei Teo won't get past the Bengals at 21.

I believe that if he runs a respectable 40 at his pro day. In this modern game you can't draft a ILB real early unless he is really special (Patrick Willis, Luke Kuechly) and really special means he can run well enough to stay on the field for 3 downs. 4.7 ought to do it. Which if he runs that well I'm not at all opposed to drafting him, forget all the hype and 1 college game (no matter how big the game was) if he looks good enough on film (i.e. his weaknesses are fixable) then I'm happy to have him. Assuming of course we don't need an OT (unless all the good ones are gone).

[sonny]

Originally Posted by KoryMac5

Peter King reported several teams are scared of paying Smith big money because they feel the signing bonus would effect his desire. Basically he will eat himself back to where he was when he first signed with the Bengals.

If the issues of Smith's work ethic/ desire are so well-known, why is there such a debate? I understand the Bengals penchant for taking on risky players, but let the lazy walk.

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by sonny

If the issues of Smith's work ethic/ desire are so well-known, why is there such a debate? I understand the Bengals penchant for taking on risky players, but let the lazy walk.

I agree...

[UKFlounder]

Because he did pretty well for them last year, and sometimes it's easier to keep a player whose abilities you know and who knows "the system" than going to get a rookie or someone else.

It looks like their knowledge of his warts will win out over what they know of his talents, but maybe there's just enough "good points" to tease them into at least debating it.

Originally Posted by sonny

If the issues of Smith's work ethic/ desire are so well-known, why is there such a debate? I understand the Bengals penchant for taking on risky players, but let the lazy walk.

[KoryMac5]

Burfict is moving to the middle where he might be an all pro next season. If the Bengals draft Teo there would be no place to put him. Every scout out there says he can only play inside. I know Zimmer liked him at the combine and compared him to a former player in Dallas but I just don't see him having a position with the Bengals.

[Benihana]

I think Vaccaro is the guy the Bengals really want at 21, and rightfully so. I just hope he lasts that long.

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by UKFlounder

Because he did pretty well for them last year, and sometimes it's easier to keep a player whose abilities you know and who knows "the system" than going to get a rookie or someone else.

It looks like their knowledge of his warts will win out over what they know of his talents, but maybe there's just enough "good points" to tease them into at least debating it.

If they do they need to have some kind of Conditioning Clause tied to his "guaranteed" money and spread it out over the length of the deal, it's the only way I'd give him a fair market value deal.

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by KoryMac5

Burfict is moving to the middle where he might be an all pro next season. If the Bengals draft Teo there would be no place to put him. Every scout out there says he can only play inside. I know Zimmer liked him at the combine and compared him to a former player in Dallas but I just don't see him having a position with the Bengals.

I think Thomas Howard is a FA as well as Rey & Lawson. Plenty of positions are open for competition.

[Mario-Rijo]

Read this on the forum over at Bengals.com. My response was as follows...

All of it seems both logical and plausible except that last one, those 3 guy are all gone before the Bengals pick IMO. Hope it's all true, that 1st one we should know the truth on soon.

Not sure who this Brian Patterson is, but he is reporting some majoe Bengal news on twitter this past hour. I'm guessing however that this guy is complete fraud and all of this is BS

@1BrianPatterson: bengals have reached tentative deals with cb adam jones, de wallace gilberry and p kevin huber. Gilberry and huber both get 3 years.”

“@bengalsinsider: bengals will speak to agents of laron landry and darnell ellerbe during 3 day "anti tampering" window.”

“@bengalsinsider: bengals have zero interest in bringing andre smith back, per sources. They have plans in place to replace him.”

@bengalsinsider: bengals will also place offer sheet on rfa rb chris ivory of saints, which they dont expect saints to match.”

“@bengalsinsider: bengals top 3 targets for 21st pick...lane johnson, jarvis jones and ezekiel ansah. They think one will drop to them.”

One of the posters over there wrote this...so take all of the above with a bigger than usual grain of salt.

Brian Patterson is the nut job that used to post here. None of what he says is true.

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo

Guaranteed money is guaranteed money, as soon as 35-40 million dollars is committed (a number he is sure to go after) he knows he doesn't have to work again off it alone.

Oops, make that 35-40 million minimum on a contract, not the guaranteed portion. Seemed to come off like I meant 35-40 guaranteed.

[KoryMac5]

Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo

I think Thomas Howard is a FA as well as Rey & Lawson. Plenty of positions are open for competition.

Again Teo can't play anything but the middle. The plan has always been to move Burfict to the middle and I can't see the Bengals moving off that commitment. I would imagine they want to bring Howard back if he is the right price. I see the following players suiting up at LB, Rey at SAM, Burfict at MLB, and Howard at WLB.

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by KoryMac5

Again Teo can't play anything but the middle. The plan has always been to move Burfict to the middle and I can't see the Bengals moving off that commitment. I would imagine they want to bring Howard back if he is the right price. I see the following players suiting up at LB, Rey at SAM, Burfict at MLB, and Howard at WLB.

I just haven't seen this commitment anywhere. Sure there is an assumption that this will be the case, but the last I heard was Marvin said last week that "Vontaze can play wherever he wants to". To me that is Marvin talk for we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. Leaving his options IMO, so that if he decides a guy like T'eo is worthy and falls into his lap he doesn't have to go back on saying so & so is playing MLB next season.