Rule question for a slow day part 2...

[bigfunguy]

Often you see where some pitcher is getting LIT UP, but the bull pen guys isn't ready yet, so the pitcher is allowed to stay in to continue pouring gas on the fire....is there a rule that would prevent the pitcher from just continuously stepping off the mound (maybe even throwing to first or wherever a runner is) to just buy time till the reliever is ready??? I mean, you see the pitching coach often come out to buy time, but hte ump comes and breaks it up...how do you prevent my suggestion???

[Rock of Truth]

Often you see where some pitcher is getting LIT UP, but the bull pen guys isn't ready yet, so the pitcher is allowed to stay in to continue pouring gas on the fire....is there a rule that would prevent the pitcher from just continuously stepping off the mound (maybe even throwing to first or wherever a runner is) to just buy time till the reliever is ready??? I mean, you see the pitching coach often come out to buy time, but hte ump comes and breaks it up...how do you prevent my suggestion???

If there is a runner on base, the umpire can call a Balk for delaying the game. I've never seen it, but it 'could' happen.

[Bob Sheed]

Often you see where some pitcher is getting LIT UP, but the bull pen guys isn't ready yet, so the pitcher is allowed to stay in to continue pouring gas on the fire....is there a rule that would prevent the pitcher from just continuously stepping off the mound (maybe even throwing to first or wherever a runner is) to just buy time till the reliever is ready??? I mean, you see the pitching coach often come out to buy time, but hte ump comes and breaks it up...how do you prevent my suggestion???

Delay of Game... 15 yard penalty, or a 10 second runoff if at the end of the game. Duh..... :D

[bigfunguy]

If there is a runner on base, the umpire can call a Balk for delaying the game. I've never seen it, but it 'could' happen.

That's a rule?

[MoneyInTheBank]

That's a rule?

Yes, not often called, but a rule nonetheless.

If Jose Reyes is on 1st, it's not going to raise a red flag, but if you are throwing over repeatedly with Jim Thome on 1st, then you'd have a problem

[JB12]

Some cool/informative stuff straight from the rule book:

8.05
If there is a runner, or runners, it is a balk when --

(h) The pitcher unnecessarily delays the game;
Rule 8.05(h) Comment: Rule 8.05(h) shall not apply when a warning is given pursuant to Rule 8.02(c) (which prohibits intentional delay of a game by throwing to fielders not in an attempt to put a runner out). If a pitcher is ejected pursuant to Rule 8.02(c) for continuing to delay the game, the penalty in Rule 8.05(h) shall also apply. Rule 8.04 (which sets a time limit for a pitcher to deliver the ball when the bases are unoccupied) applies only when there are no runners on base.


AND


8.02
The pitcher shall not --

(c) Intentionally delay the game by throwing the ball to players other then the catcher, when the batter is in position, except in an attempt to retire a runner.
PENALTY: If, after warning by the umpire, such delaying action is repeated, the pitcher shall be removed from the game.

[bigfunguy]

OK...here's my work around. Say Cueto is getting lit up (god forbid). But nobody is ready outta the pen...you have Cueto just delay. He gets thrown out...if new pitcher isnt ready, you insert Arroyo (or whoever pitched last night---somebody who aint gonna play). According to the rules, he has to face one batter---BUT if he just REFUSES to pitch...what can they do?? Eject him?? Fine--by then, LeCure is ready. :>)

[The_Mudshark]

OK...here's my work around. Say Cueto is getting lit up (god forbid). But nobody is ready outta the pen...you have Cueto just delay. He gets thrown out...if new pitcher isnt ready, you insert Arroyo (or whoever pitched last night---somebody who aint gonna play). According to the rules, he has to face one batter---BUT if he just REFUSES to pitch...what can they do?? Eject him?? Fine--by then, LeCure is ready. :>)


That's pretty dirty. At some point with these loopholes you get into the 'unwritten rules' and things that you just shouldn't do. I have a feeling that if the scenario you just laid out was used in a game - especially an important one - every one who wasn't a fan of that particular team would have a very good reason to hate them. Take the potential loss, it's not worth the ripple effect.

Not to mention you are doing all of this with the HOPE that LeCure or whoever can pitch no run ball (or very close to it) and that the Reds' bats can come alive to answer to whatever your starter gave up. :pray:

That's a pretty big reach.

[bigfunguy]

That's pretty dirty. At some point with these loopholes you get into the 'unwritten rules' and things that you just shouldn't do. I have a feeling that if the scenario you just laid out was used in a game - especially an important one - every one who wasn't a fan of that particular team would have a very good reason to hate them. Take the potential loss, it's not worth the ripple effect.

Not to mention you are doing all of this with the HOPE that LeCure or whoever can pitch no run ball (or very close to it) and that the Reds' bats can come alive to answer to whatever your starter gave up. :pray:

That's a pretty big reach.

Oh, Im not saying you SHOULD do it...just that you COULD.

[The_Mudshark]

Oh, Im not saying you SHOULD do it...just that you COULD.

Gotcha. :thumbup:

In that case, I'd love it if a team that I already disliked tried it...

[MoneyInTheBank]

OK...here's my work around. Say Cueto is getting lit up (god forbid). But nobody is ready outta the pen...you have Cueto just delay. He gets thrown out...if new pitcher isnt ready, you insert Arroyo (or whoever pitched last night---somebody who aint gonna play). According to the rules, he has to face one batter---BUT if he just REFUSES to pitch...what can they do?? Eject him?? Fine--by then, LeCure is ready. :>)

I have a feeling the commissioner's office would get involved and fines and/or suspensions handed down to Cueto and Arroyo. Then if they caught wind that the team was complicit, there would be heavy fines and suspensions handed down to Dusty Baker. I don't think this is something Selig would shrug off as there are already complaints about game length.

[texasdave]

I have a feeling the commissioner's office would get involved and fines and/or suspensions handed down to Cueto and Arroyo. Then if they caught wind that the team was complicit, there would be heavy fines and suspensions handed down to Dusty Baker. I don't think this is something Selig would shrug off as there are already complaints about game length.


I have no idea why the players would be fined if they were acting under the orders of the manager, which I am certain they would be. I could see the manager and the team get fined/suspended heavily.

[MoneyInTheBank]

I have no idea why the players would be fined if they were acting under the orders of the manager, which I am certain they would be. I could see the manager and the team get fined/suspended heavily.

If the manager asks a pitcher to throw at a batter's head, the pitcher is still ejected and suspended. Same thing

[texasdave]

If the manager asks a pitcher to throw at a batter's head, the pitcher is still ejected and suspended. Same thing

You equate throwing at a batter's head with delaying the game? Ejected for delaying? Sure. Suspended? I doubt it.

[camisadelgolf]

That's why I recommend bringing a stray cat into the stadium. When your pitcher needs to buy time, just let it loose on the field and help your cause.

[LeDoux]

That's why I recommend bringing a stray cat into the stadium. When your pitcher needs to buy time, just let it loose and the field and help your cause.

That is the dumbest idea ever. It should be a bag of chickens with faux beards spray painted on them.

;)

[Nathan]

OK...here's my work around. Say Cueto is getting lit up (god forbid). But nobody is ready outta the pen...you have Cueto just delay. He gets thrown out...if new pitcher isnt ready, you insert Arroyo (or whoever pitched last night---somebody who aint gonna play). According to the rules, he has to face one batter---BUT if he just REFUSES to pitch...what can they do?? Eject him?? Fine--by then, LeCure is ready. :>)

I guess hypothetically, that could happen, but, it probably never will. Usually when a pitcher gets to the point that the manager is going to pull him, they usually have a guy already warming up in the bullpen. Besides they use other stall tactics. (Catcher going to the mound. Infield huddles, manager/pitching coach comes out, impatient umpire breaks the meetings off, and then they signal for the change.... By then, they've wasted about 5-10 minutes.)

[MoneyInTheBank]

You equate throwing at a batter's head with delaying the game? Ejected for delaying? Sure. Suspended? I doubt it.

No, I'm not equating throwing at a batter's head with delaying the game. I'm equating the fact that a player has to be responsible for his own actions. Whether the manager told him to perform the action or not does not absolve the player of responsibility for said action.

With that said, you suspend the players to prevent it from happening again. If it were simply ejections, teams would perform the scenario presented all the time since it would be a pitcher who was going to be taken out anyway and a pitcher from the night before.

[Girevik]

OK...here's my work around. Say Cueto is getting lit up (god forbid). But nobody is ready outta the pen...you have Cueto just delay. He gets thrown out...if new pitcher isnt ready, you insert Arroyo (or whoever pitched last night---somebody who aint gonna play). According to the rules, he has to face one batter---BUT if he just REFUSES to pitch...what can they do?? Eject him?? Fine--by then, LeCure is ready. :>)

If a pitcher is thrown out of a game, or is injured, his replacement has all the time he needs to warm up.

The issue with the "delay" tactic it that is can be called a balk and you move the runners up. So instead, throw a couple balls behind the batter, get tossed, and the new guy comes in and loosens up at his leisure. :D

[George Anderson]

If a pitcher is thrown out of a game, or is injured, his replacement has all the time he needs to warm up.

The issue with the "delay" tactic it that is can be called a balk and you move the runners up. So instead, throw a couple balls behind the batter, get tossed, and the new guy comes in and loosens up at his leisure. :D

You cannot call a balk for a pitcher taking to much time to pitch.

There is no such rule.

[Nathan]

You cannot call a balk for a pitcher taking to much time to pitch.

There is no such rule.

Wrong. The rule was cited earlier in this thread.

[George Anderson]

Wrong. The rule was cited earlier in this thread.

I was refering to post #19 where the poster asked what can be done if a pitcher refuses to pitch. He made the comment that a pitcher can be called for a balk for refusing to pitch to a batter which is a false statement. If there is no one on base the pitcher has 12 seconds to deliver the pitch(8.04). If the pitcher does not do it then the umpire will call that unthrown pitch a "ball" and not a balk. (Of course as we all know this never happens.) If there are runners on base and in the umpires judgement the pitcher is delaying the game by throwing to an occupied base when there is no real intent to play on a runner then a warning will be given to the pitcher for "delay of game". If the pitcher continues to do this then he will be ejected and at the same time a balk will be called(8.05h). Again, I would be suprised if this rule has ever been enforced in the history of MLB.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/official_rules/pitcher_8.jsp

In short, if a team desired to do what the OP suggested by prolonging the game in order to give a reliever time to warm up then it can be done by doing what i referenced above. However it is incredibly unlikely the umpires will make this call and even if the pitcher by his extreme actions forced it to happen, it would be considered very much "bush league" and most likely would result in a ball plunking someone on the offending team in the butt.

[JB12]

^^^


Some cool/informative stuff straight from the rule book:

8.05
If there is a runner, or runners, it is a balk when --

(h) The pitcher unnecessarily delays the game;
Rule 8.05(h) Comment: Rule 8.05(h) shall not apply when a warning is given pursuant to Rule 8.02(c) (which prohibits intentional delay of a game by throwing to fielders not in an attempt to put a runner out). If a pitcher is ejected pursuant to Rule 8.02(c) for continuing to delay the game, the penalty in Rule 8.05(h) shall also apply. Rule 8.04 (which sets a time limit for a pitcher to deliver the ball when the bases are unoccupied) applies only when there are no runners on base.


AND


8.02
The pitcher shall not --

(c) Intentionally delay the game by throwing the ball to players other then the catcher, when the batter is in position, except in an attempt to retire a runner.
PENALTY: If, after warning by the umpire, such delaying action is repeated, the pitcher shall be removed from the game.

[George Anderson]

8.05
If there is a runner, or runners, it is a balk when --

(h) The pitcher unnecessarily delays the game;
Rule 8.05(h) Comment: Rule 8.05(h) shall not apply when a warning is given pursuant to Rule 8.02(c) (which prohibits intentional delay of a game by throwing to fielders not in an attempt to put a runner out). If a pitcher is ejected pursuant to Rule 8.02(c) for continuing to delay the game, the penalty in Rule 8.05(h) shall also apply. Rule 8.04 (which sets a time limit for a pitcher to deliver the ball when the bases are unoccupied) applies only when there are no runners on base.

.

The exceptions.