March Madness 2013 discussion

[Revering4Blue]

It's that time again.

First things first, congrats to RichRed and Scrap Irony, as James Madison and Western Kentucky have punched tickets to the big dance. :beerme:

[Chip R]

Not for 100 years. ;)

[WMR]

UK should have at least 25 championships by now. :D

[Buckeye33]

Lets see, I will be 134 years old when this thread becomes relevant. Mike Krzyzewski will be a robot by then and will still be manipulating refs to the enth degree.

[Revering4Blue]

Not for 100 years. ;)

Proof positive that Senior moments can occur years ahead of time. :scared:

It's a good thing I'm not a CPA.

Mods, feel free to change the thread title.

[Ohayou]

Wright State/Valparaiso tomorrow, Horizon League tourney final. I know, I know...but it's my school.

[RichRed]

It's that time again.

First things first, congrats to RichRed and Scrap Irony, as James Madison and Western Kentucky have punched tickets to the big dance. :beerme:

Hey thanks, Rev! I drove the two hours to Richmond for the game and had an absolute blast. I'm a little hoarse and tired this morning at work but so happy for the kids on that team. We might be destined for a "First Four" matchup in Dayton but right now, I don't care. I was a young man of 25 the last time the Dukes were in the NCAA tourney (1994), so it's been a long wait, and it feels great!

[Boston Red]

You'd have thought Northeastern would have learned from falling behind 28-4 to George Mason in the semifinals that it was important for them to come out firing on all cylinders. Then they did basically the same thing in the finals. Perhaps coming all the way back against Mason just left them with nothing in the tank.

[RichRed]

You'd have thought Northeastern would have learned from falling behind 28-4 to George Mason in the semifinals that it was important for them to come out firing on all cylinders. Then they did basically the same thing in the finals. Perhaps coming all the way back against Mason just left them with nothing in the tank.

Having seen that comeback against GMU, I was a nervous wreck almost until the final horn sounded. NU did manage to cut the lead to 8 at one point, so there was definitely an "Oh no, not again" feeling for a while there.

[traderumor]

Proof positive that Senior moments can occur years ahead of time. :scared:

It's a good thing I'm not a CPA.

Mods, feel free to change the thread title.The CPA might do that just to cross up the IRS ;)

[Cyclone792]

Hoping UC makes the tourney at this point. They escaped USF, and ESPN thinks they're a lock but they need to beat Providence to ensure punching their ticket. Once in the tourney, they need to hit some of their 489 three pointers they fire up each game otherwise they'll be bounced early.

Nevertheless, when UC walks off the court for the final time I'll probably root for Miami (FL) the rest of the way, purely because of Larkin.

[jmac]

I have a feeling WKU will get an early tourney matchup with U of L.
Just my prediction ;)

[Ohayou]

Wow, Wright State. That was probably the ugliest final 5 minutes of a basketball game that I've ever seen.

[Scrap Irony]

I have a feeling WKU will get an early tourney matchup with U of L.
Just my prediction ;)

I'm guessing Indiana.

They've played Louisville already this year, and the NCAA is typically loathe to re-match schools in the same season.

WKU would provide the Hoosiers an opponent that requires little in the way of preparation and one that can't shoot straight.

It will also give me a chance to scream at the TV and act like a moron everytime Zeller pratfalls onto his face for another phantom foul on his opponent-- so that's a bonus.

Perhaps I can stroke out as WKU is leading early in the first half...

[Revering4Blue]

I'm guessing Indiana.

They've played Louisville already this year, and the NCAA is typically loathe to re-match schools in the same season.

WKU would provide the Hoosiers an opponent that requires little in the way of preparation and one that can't shoot straight.

It will also give me a chance to scream at the TV and act like a moron everytime Zeller pratfalls onto his face for another phantom foul on his opponent-- so that's a bonus.

Perhaps I can stroke out as WKU is leading early in the first half...

Just a hunch, Scrap, but I can see a Gonzaga/WKU first round matchup.

The reasoning:

* Two non-BCS schools with rich College B-Ball traditions/NCAA tourney success histories. It wasn't that long ago when nobody at all would have been surprised to see the aforementioned schools matched-up in the Sweet 16.

* For the simple reason that Gonzaga does not play in a BCS conference, they are perceived as the weakest #1 seed, not that I agree with this line of reasoning at all -- they are for real. But, given the fact that WKU was largely an injury-riddled team all year and are finally healthy and playing well, WKU profiles as the type of low seed capable of taking a heavy favorite down to the wire, with a chance to steal the game at the end.

If said match up were to materialize, I imagine that the record for viewership of a 1/16 match up would match or exceed the Georgetown/Princeton classic match up ratings of 1989.

[Revering4Blue]

Wow, Wright State. That was probably the ugliest final 5 minutes of a basketball game that I've ever seen.

So, in a manner of speaking, five Wrights CAN make a Wrong. :D

[Scrap Irony]

Just a hunch, Scrap, but I can see a Gonzaga/WKU first round matchup.

The reasoning:

* Two non-BCS schools with rich College B-Ball traditions/NCAA tourney success histories. It wasn't that long ago when nobody at all would have been surprised to see the aforementioned schools matched-up in the Sweet 16.

* For the simple reason that Gonzaga does not play in a BCS conference, they are perceived as the weakest #1 seed, not that I agree with this line of reasoning at all -- they are for real. But, given the fact that WKU was largely an injury-riddled team all year and are finally healthy and playing well, WKU profiles as the type of low seed capable of taking a heavy favorite down to the wire, with a chance to steal the game at the end.

If said match up were to materialize, I imagine that the record for viewership of a 1/16 match up would match or exceed the Georgetown/Princeton classic match up ratings of 1989.

Yeah, but Gonzaga's not nearly as much fun to hate as IU.

How about a 2-15 match-up with Duke?

Heh.

Could it happen two years in a row?

[Scrap Irony]

I'm tooting my own horn here, as I'm so often wrong. However, a month ago, I typed, when another poster insisted only one SEC team would make the tourney:


Missouri has been ranked all year. They'll make it, no doubt.

Same with Ole Miss.

At least one of Kentucky and Alabama will make it, most likely both. Even Tennessee and Arkansas have outside shots of making the NCAAs.

I suspect Kentucky will make the big tourney assuming they win out against lower echelon teams and win at least one more big game against an upper division team.

Now, they might be a 12 seed, but they'll make it.

And, later in that same thread:


'Bama has a 2-2 record against the Top 25. Bad losses, yes, but, this year, who hasn't? Their schedule sets up as less than stellar the rest of the way. A 5-2 record looks more than likely the rest of the way, with an 11-6 overall SEC mark. A win in the SEC Tourney-- maybe two-- and there's no doubt they make it, IMO.

Ole Miss, too, has a fairly easy schedule the rest of the way-- they may very well win out to the SEC Tourney. That'd put them at 12-4 in the league. And of those four losses in five games, three came against Florida, UK, and Mizzou. (One "tough" game against 'Bama left, and that one at home.)

Arkansas beat Florida-- badly. The same Florida team that, IMO, is one of the two or three top teams in basketball this year. They have four tough games left and may make hay if they can catch fire again. What happens if they beat Kentucky and Mizzou? That'd be three Top 25 wins and a 10-6 league record.

Tennessee has three tough games left, but no bad losses. (Their worst looks like Georgia just last week.) If they beat Kentucky, Florida, and Mizzou, they make it. If they beat two of them, they make it (IMO). If they beat one of them, they'll need to win the SEC Tournament.

I'm not saying they'll all make it, but I do believe five-- Florida, Mizzou, Ole Miss, Kentucky, and Alabama-- would be in if the NCAA started today. May not be top seeds, but they'll be in.

I don't know if five will make it now (I see four) and I was wrong about the specific wins in some respects, but, according to Joe Lunardi, each of the teams I mentioned as bubble teams and/or NCAA possibilities have been in and around the Last Four In/ Last Four Out.

Blind miner and all that.

[texasdave]

A little A-10 Conference Tournament Madness.

http://college-basketball.si.com/2013/03/14/richmond-finds-an-outlier-scenario-in-the-fouling-when-up-3-debate/?sct=hp_t2_a11

[dabvu2498]

Alabama-Tennessee tomorrow is probably a play-in game. Meh.

[Razor Shines]

Oh my gosh, why is Notre Dame wearing those terrible unis? Boise state's field those are gross.


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[Revering4Blue]

A little A-10 Conference Tournament Madness.

http://college-basketball.si.com/2013/03/14/richmond-finds-an-outlier-scenario-in-the-fouling-when-up-3-debate/?sct=hp_t2_a11

I was watching the last two minutes of the Charlotte/Richmond game and I was just about to change the channel, but didn't.

Unreal ending, to say the least.

I still cannot believe the missed bunny at the end of the St. Joes. / Xavier game.

[Razor Shines]

Good. They deserve to spot Marquette 7 points for those uniforms.


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[dabvu2498]

Vanderbilt-Arkansas trying to out-lose each other.

SEC! SEC! SEC!

[cumberlandreds]

None of the major conferences have had a major upset yet. This could be the day of upsets. As long as doesn't happen to Kentucky I'll be happy. :)

[Razor Shines]

Is anyone getting any extra insight from Dan Dakich explaining a play while standing on the court during time outs? He's just standing there holding a ball and a mic. Put the rest of the crew out there and have em run through shell drill if you're gonna be on the court.


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[jmac]

Vanderbilt-Arkansas trying to out-lose each other.

SEC! SEC! SEC!

The home/road thing with Arkansas is mind boggling. Not so much the record, but they play so much different. At home, I think they could beat most any team in college basketball this year. Away from home...forget it. (though this one was close at the end)

[dabvu2498]

The home/road thing with Arkansas is mind boggling. Not so much the record, but they play so much different. At home, I think they could beat most any team in college basketball this year. Away from home...forget it. (though this one was close at the end)

If it weren't for Auburn, Mike Anderson would be winless away from Fayetteville in his 2 years at Arky.

[jmac]

Dickie V's lock for a number 1 seed, Duke goes down.
I'm sure they could have lost by 30 and still got a number 1 ! :p

[Razor Shines]

So what scenario gets IU sent to the South? Is it simply losing to Wisconsin and Louisville winning the Big East? Selfishly, I wouldn't mind that happening.


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[dabvu2498]

Stallings made the VU guys go to class yesterday. Then they go out and do that. They're not very good. And they're not too fun to watch. But they do compete.

[Assembly Hall]

So what scenario gets IU sent to the South? Is it simply losing to Wisconsin and Louisville winning the Big East? Selfishly, I wouldn't mind that happening.


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Good question, but right now I think IU is a lock for their region.

[Assembly Hall]

Stallings made the VU guys go to class yesterday. Then they go out and do that. They're not very good. And they're not too fun to watch. But they do compete.

I will be keeping my eye on the Commodores and rooting for them as well. Got something to do with those Indiana ties.;) Sorry to see the Vols fall as their coach has the same ties.

[Assembly Hall]

BTW, what in the hell is Lunardi's infatuation with Duke? Let me get this straight.......they didnt win the regular season title and sure as heck aint gonna get the tournament title. Just listened to him, he thinks the only way they come off the one line is that Kansas wins the Big 12 tourney title. Poses a question in my mind.......has there ever been a #1 seed that (a) didnt win their conferences regular season title combined with (b) didnt win their conferences tournament title combined with (c) didnt have a #1 seed come from within the same conference(which Lunardi doesnt think Miami can achieve a #1). Heck we might have two teams that win their regular season and conference tournament titles on the two line(Florida and Miami) and the powers that be are still talking about Duke as a #1?

[Hillsdale87]

Duke has some really good wins, and this was really the first loss they've had with Ryan Kelly. I think it all depends on how the committee takes that into account. Notwithstanding the loss last night, Duke is such a different team with Kelly in the lineup. I also think there was a pretty big gap between the top 4 and the rest of the teams going into this weekend. Georgetown was a pretty weak #5 team going into this weekend, and they're definitely not moving up after yesterday. Michigan State stumbled against good teams down the stretch. Miami lost to bad teams down the stretch. Kansas has quite a few bad losses. Florida has almost no good wins. Duke probably could have dropped but nobody played well enough to take it from them. Ohio State is really the only team in the 5 - 10 range that has come on strong in the last few weeks, but they started too far back.

[dabvu2498]

Some pretty good stuff in the CUSA championship. These are two pretty good teams.

[VottoFan54]

Some pretty good stuff in the CUSA championship. These are two pretty good teams.

Indiana-Wisconsin has been a great game too.

[Razor Shines]

I usually don't hate other teams. I don't hate Purdue, I don't hate Kentucky but I think I would smile a little bit if Wisconsin's team bus was swallowed by a sink hole on the way back to the hotel and none of them were ever hear from again.


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[Razor Shines]

I'm not saying I hope they die, they could fall into some unknown underground civilization....just as long I don't hear about it.


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[dabvu2498]

St. Louis beat Butler 3 times by an average of 11. They're not spectacular, but they're going to scare the hell out of their 2nd round opponent. And possibly their Sweet 16 opponent.

[Razor Shines]

Or I hope they get sent to the Mid East Regional. Like Tehran.


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[Razor Shines]

Good question, but right now I think IU is a lock for their region.

Really? After that game I think IU should have to prove they can beat the ISHAA state champs before they're even allowed in the NCAA tourney.


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[Assembly Hall]

Really? After that game I think IU should have to prove they can beat the ISHAA state champs before they're even allowed in the NCAA tourney.


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LOL...which one?

[Razor Shines]

LOL...which one?

Pick one.


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[Chip R]

If you haven't checked your e-mail yet or didn't get an invite, be sure to sign up for the annual RedsZone NCAA pool.

http://y.ahoo.it/uXjArdyo

Password is redszone1

[PedroBourbon]

BTW, what in the hell is Lunardi's infatuation with Duke? Let me get this straight.......they didnt win the regular season title and sure as heck aint gonna get the tournament title. Just listened to him, he thinks the only way they come off the one line is that Kansas wins the Big 12 tourney title. Poses a question in my mind.......has there ever been a #1 seed that (a) didnt win their conferences regular season title combined with (b) didnt win their conferences tournament title combined with (c) didnt have a #1 seed come from within the same conference(which Lunardi doesnt think Miami can achieve a #1). Heck we might have two teams that win their regular season and conference tournament titles on the two line(Florida and Miami) and the powers that be are still talking about Duke as a #1?

My main turn off to ESPN is their "stiffies" for certain teams. Duke, the Yankees, the Cowboys mainly. Just like the news media can be biased with regards to political views, the sports media has their preferences too. ESPN looks at these teams with the same glimmer in their eye as John Madden does Brett Favre.

[Assembly Hall]

Pick one.


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LOL........uh, how about my Warsaw Tigers. The Hoosiers would beat them by 2!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :laugh:

[Razor Shines]

I needed an ACC team to be the other #1 so they would be in the East and IU would get sent South. Kansas boned me.


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[improbus]

Did anyone else find the Big Ten final almost unwatchable? OSU and Wisconsin almost never brought the ball inside the 3 point line until there were 15 seconds left on the shot clock (and very often they waited until there were only 10 seconds). And, so I don't sound like the "Get Off My Lawn" guy, I can contrast that with the Miam/UNC game that ended an hour earlier in which both teams were on full out attack mode.

It almost seemed like OSU and Wisconsin were seeing who could play "not to lose" more.

[Razor Shines]

No, not unwatchable. Yeah, the styles of the two games were completely different but I enjoyed both games.

If it were another team it would be easier for me to say this but there's enjoyment watching a team control a game and force their style. Wisconsin did it to my team (IU) and they did it today too but Ohio State is capable of playing that style more than Indiana is.


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[jmac]

Just got home so havent heard all the experts on TV yet. Glancing at the bracket, it appears Louisville is in one of the tougher brackets. After the first round game, they have some possible tough ones out there.
Mizzou is very capable of giving them a game. Stl/OSU could as well and then there is Duke/MSU waiting (barring no upsets).
Really surprised Duke got a #2 !

[Reds Fanatic]

The schedule has been released:

GAME SITE DATE/TIME TV
N.C. A&T vs. Liberty University of Dayton Arena (Dayton, OH) Tuesday, March 19 6:40 pm truTV
St. Mary's vs. Middle Tenn. University of Dayton Arena (Dayton, OH) Tuesday, March 19 9:10 pm truTV
LIU-Brooklyn vs. J. Madison University of Dayton Arena (Dayton, OH) Wednesday, March 20 6:40 pm truTV
La Salle vs. Boise St. University of Dayton Arena (Dayton, OH) Wednesday, March 20 9:10 pm truTV
Valparaiso vs. Michigan St. The Palace of Auburn Hills (Auburn Hills, Mich.) Thursday, March 21 12:15 pm CBS
Bucknell vs. Butler Rupp Arena (Lexington, KY) Thursday, March 21 12:40 pm truTV
Wichita St. vs. Pittsburgh EnergySolutions Arena (Salt Lake City, Utah) Thursday, March 21 1:40 pm TBS
New Mex. St. vs. Saint Louis HP Pavilion (San Jose, CA) Thursday, March 21 2:10 pm TNT
TBD vs. Memphis The Palace of Auburn Hills (Auburn Hills, Mich.) Thursday, March 21 2:45 pm CBS
Davidson vs. Marquette Rupp Arena (Lexington, KY) Thursday, March 21 3:10 pm truTV
Southern U. vs. Gonzaga EnergySolutions Arena (Salt Lake City, Utah) Thursday, March 21 4:10 pm TBS
Oregon vs. Oklahoma St. HP Pavilion (San Jose, CA) Thursday, March 21 4:40 pm TNT
TBD vs. Louisville Rupp Arena (Lexington, KY) Thursday, March 21 6:50 pm TBS
S. Dak. St. vs. Michigan The Palace of Auburn Hills (Auburn Hills, Mich.) Thursday, March 21 7:15 pm CBS
Belmont vs. Arizona EnergySolutions Arena (Salt Lake City, Utah) Thursday, March 21 7:20 pm TNT
California vs. UNLV HP Pavilion (San Jose, CA) Thursday, March 21 7:27 pm truTV
Missouri vs. Colorado St. Rupp Arena (Lexington, KY) Thursday, March 21 9:20 pm TBS
Akron vs. VCU The Palace of Auburn Hills (Auburn Hills, Mich.) Thursday, March 21 9:45 pm CBS
Harvard vs. New Mexico EnergySolutions Arena (Salt Lake City, Utah) Thursday, March 21 9:50 pm TNT
Montana vs. Syracuse HP Pavilion (San Jose, CA) Thursday, March 21 9:57 pm truTV
Albany vs. Duke Wells Fargo Center (Philadelphia, Pa.) Friday, March 22 12:15 pm CBS
Ole Miss vs. Wisconsin Sprint Center (Kansas City, Mo.) Friday, March 22 12:40 pm truTV
Temple vs. N.C. State University of Dayton Arena (Dayton, OH) Friday, March 22 1:40 pm TBS
Pacific vs. Miami (Fla.) Frank Erwin Center (Austin, TX) Friday, March 22 2:10 pm TNT
Cincinnati vs. Creighton Wells Fargo Center (Philadelphia, Pa.) Friday, March 22 2:45 pm CBS
TBD vs. Kansas St. Sprint Center (Kansas City, Mo.) Friday, March 22 3:10 pm truTV
TBD vs. Indiana University of Dayton Arena (Dayton, OH) Friday, March 22 4:10 pm TBS
Colorado vs. Illinois Frank Erwin Center (Austin, TX) Friday, March 22 4:40 pm TNT
FGCU vs. Georgetown Wells Fargo Center (Philadelphia, Pa.) Friday, March 22 6:50 pm TBS
Iona vs. Ohio St. University of Dayton Arena (Dayton, OH) Friday, March 22 7:15 pm CBS
Villanova vs. N. Carolina Sprint Center (Kansas City, Mo.) Friday, March 22 7:20 pm TNT
Nwestern St. vs. Florida Frank Erwin Center (Austin, TX) Friday, March 22 7:27 pm truTV
Oklahoma vs. San Diego St Wells Fargo Center (Philadelphia, Pa.) Friday, March 22 9:20 pm TBS
Iowa St. vs. Notre Dame University of Dayton Arena (Dayton, OH) Friday, March 22 9:45 pm CBS
Western Ky. vs. Kansas Sprint Center (Kansas City, Mo.) Friday, March 22 9:50 pm TNT
Minnesota vs. UCLA Frank Erwin Center (Austin, TX) Friday, March 22 9:57 pm truTV

[WVRed]

Just got home so havent heard all the experts on TV yet. Glancing at the bracket, it appears Louisville is in one of the tougher brackets. After the first round game, they have some possible tough ones out there.
Mizzou is very capable of giving them a game. Stl/OSU could as well and then there is Duke/MSU waiting (barring no upsets).
Really surprised Duke got a #2 !

Missouri lost to Louisville in one of the tournaments earlier in the season by 23, and that was without Giorgui Gieng. They have a virtual cakewalk to the Sweet 16.

I'd be sweating having St Louis in the bracket. Louisville thrives on pressure defense (Pitino's trademark) and St Louis takes very good care of the basketball. Okie Jr. would be an interesting matchup, but Pitino usually does very well against his disciples.

Its always obvious the NCAA sets up storylines. Last year it was Kentucky vs Duke, now its Pitino vs Coach K. It wouldn't surprise me if Creighton or Michigan State knocked off Duke, however, and St Louis beats Louisville.

[thatcoolguy_22]

Signed up for the redszone bracket challenge. its a soft j for the win!

I can see the Big Ten with 2+ members in the final 4. I think IU have a pretty clear path barring another late game melt down. Michigan as a 4 seed is a tough sell. They can run with anyone and have the best PG in the nation. Wisconsin can shut down any offense in the tourney and MSU might have the best in-game coach in the field. I like the Big Ten's chances.

[traderumor]

Did anyone else find the Big Ten final almost unwatchable? OSU and Wisconsin almost never brought the ball inside the 3 point line until there were 15 seconds left on the shot clock (and very often they waited until there were only 10 seconds). And, so I don't sound like the "Get Off My Lawn" guy, I can contrast that with the Miam/UNC game that ended an hour earlier in which both teams were on full out attack mode.

It almost seemed like OSU and Wisconsin were seeing who could play "not to lose" more.I also prefer up tempo bball, which is why I wanted an OSU/IU rubber game in the finals. MSU and Wisconsin are two of my least favorite big 10 teams to watch, year after year they play butt ugly basketball.

OSU gets a pass this year for playing ugly bball because they are using their personnel in a way that gives them the best opportunity to succeed, and when Matta has the horses, he likes to run 'em. This year, he has a GREAT defensive team that struggles on O, but an O that excels when it can get into transition off its defense. The final was more a result of two great D's and fatigue, plus it is the only chance Wisconsin has to win against teams with athletes.

Personally, I prefer controlled up tempo bball where both teams are playing D, but not shot clock killing to reduce the number of possessions.

[improbus]

No, not unwatchable. Yeah, the styles of the two games were completely different but I enjoyed both games.

If it were another team it would be easier for me to say this but there's enjoyment watching a team control a game and force their style. Wisconsin did it to my team (IU) and they did it today too but Ohio State is capable of playing that style more than Indiana is.


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I think appreciate is a better word than enjoy. I can fully appreciate the way Wisconsin plays and understand why they do, but I don't have to like it and I certainly don't want to watch it. The same thing went for those two Butler teams. I appreciate what they did, but you couldn't pay me to watch that brand of basketball.

BTW, not that anyone cares, but I would change the following rules.
1) 28 second shot clock (if not 24)
2) 3 timeouts, not 5
3) Extend the 3 point line by 1 foot

[Mutaman]

I appreciate what they did, but you couldn't pay me to watch that brand of basketball.


But according to post # 49, you did watch it, and you watched it closely enough to post about it in some detail.
:rolleyes:

[WVRed]

I also prefer up tempo bball, which is why I wanted an OSU/IU rubber game in the finals. MSU and Wisconsin are two of my least favorite big 10 teams to watch, year after year they play butt ugly basketball.

Pretty much the reason we wanted rid of Tubby Smith. I'll admit though, I usually pull for him in the Big Ten and definitely think they will beat UCLA and could make a Sweet 16 run.

Smash-mouth Big Ten football, err I mean basketball isn't my thing.

[improbus]

But according to post # 49, you did watch it, and you watched it closely enough to post about it in some detail.
:rolleyes:
I believe that describes every Wisconsin vs. OSU game going back to Dick Bennett. Full disclosure, I was listening to/watching the TV while removing an old faucet and installing a new one. But, I've heard that 50-43 song and dance before.

[Assembly Hall]

There are a lot of Wisky fans out there that think Bo is holding his horses back. But it is hard to argue with a philosophy that at the end of the year you look at the standings and the Badgers are close to top all the time. However I also think that although Wisconsin's style is very successful in the B1G it doesnt work as well in the NCAA. The same isnt true for MSU. Izzy's style has been successful in the tournament.

[RiverRat13]

OSU gets a pass this year for playing ugly bball because they are using their personnel in a way that gives them the best opportunity to succeed, and when Matta has the horses, he likes to run 'em.

Not really. OSU played much more up tempo last season (72nd fastest in the nation), but that was the exception. Last season was the first since '06 where OSU didn't rank in the 200s in tempo.

[bucksfan2]

There are a lot of Wisky fans out there that think Bo is holding his horses back. But it is hard to argue with a philosophy that at the end of the year you look at the standings and the Badgers are close to top all the time. However I also think that although Wisconsin's style is very successful in the B1G it doesnt work as well in the NCAA. The same isnt true for MSU. Izzy's style has been successful in the tournament.

I don't like playing Wisconsin but I do respect their style of play. It isn't about holding the ball late in the shot clock it is about moving the ball and making the other team guard for a full 30+ seconds. Its about making a team spend a lot of energy on defense and about creating mismatches with bigs who can shoot the outside shot. I think Bo has done a heck of a job at Wisconsin.

IMO the reason it doesn't work in the tournament is its too had for that style to work 6 games in a row. When your not playing games at home and playing in big dome arenas once you start to miss shots your doomed. The sure fire way to beat Wisconsin is to get an early substantial lead on them or have them miss shots. If Wisky plays their style of basketball it takes a damn good team to beat them.

As for MSU they play a beat you up style of basketball but will score with the best of them. One ironic thing about Izzo is he has been to a ton of Final 4's but only championship came when Martin broke his leg.

[Assembly Hall]

I don't like playing Wisconsin but I do respect their style of play. It isn't about holding the ball late in the shot clock it is about moving the ball and making the other team guard for a full 30+ seconds. Its about making a team spend a lot of energy on defense and about creating mismatches with bigs who can shoot the outside shot. I think Bo has done a heck of a job at Wisconsin.

IMO the reason it doesn't work in the tournament is its too had for that style to work 6 games in a row. When your not playing games at home and playing in big dome arenas once you start to miss shots your doomed. The sure fire way to beat Wisconsin is to get an early substantial lead on them or have them miss shots. If Wisky plays their style of basketball it takes a damn good team to beat them.

As for MSU they play a beat you up style of basketball but will score with the best of them. One ironic thing about Izzo is he has been to a ton of Final 4's but only championship came when Martin broke his leg.

Good stuff.

In regards to Wisconsin, I thought I read somewheres where in Bo's tenure with the Badgers.....they have only ever defeated one higher seed in the NCAA's.

I do agree with you about their style and would add that it aint conducive to blowing people out of the gym. Their games are usually close, and gives teams opportunities at the end.

[traderumor]

Not really. OSU played much more up tempo last season (72nd fastest in the nation), but that was the exception. Last season was the first since '06 where OSU didn't rank in the 200s in tempo.Which could be a function of the sluggish conference, no? Oh, and I prefer "ACTUALLY" when I'm gonna brashly correct someone.

[texasdave]

I am too lazy to look it up but why are there two play-in games to decide 16 seeds, one to decide a13 seed and one to decide an 11 seed? Shouldn't all four games be to decide who the final and 16th seed in that particular region is? What is the rhyme or reason?

[Boston Red]

They wanted to expand the Tournament from 65 to 68 teams, but they did not want to solely penalize the 16th seeds. Thus, they only added one more play-in game for the 16th seeds. Thus the four worst 16 seeds face off for 2 16 seeds. The other two play-in games are for the last four at-large teams to get it. Since they are basically the beneficiaries of the Tournament expanding to 68 teams, they can't really complain about facing off in the play-in games. There are presumably two 11 seeds because on or two of the 12 seeds got moved around on the seeding lines for reasons other than being worse than the 11 seeds in front of them (geography, avoid rematches, etc.).

[texasdave]

They wanted to expand the Tournament from 65 to 68 teams, but they did not want to solely penalize the 16th seeds. Thus, they only added one more play-in game for the 16th seeds. Thus the four worst 16 seeds face off for 2 16 seeds. The other two play-in games are for the last four at-large teams to get it. Since they are basically the beneficiaries of the Tournament expanding to 68 teams, they can't really complain about facing off in the play-in games. There are presumably two 11 seeds because on or two of the 12 seeds got moved around on the seeding lines for reasons other than being worse than the 11 seeds in front of them (geography, avoid rematches, etc.).

Thanks.

So if I am following this correctly; if they had all play-in games for 16 seeds, then that would have involved the 8 lowest-ranked teams. And these 8 teams, more than likely, would have been the representatives of the minor conferences. I am assuming that the losers of these four play-in games are going to get the same amount of money as if they lost a first round game. So it would seem to me, just MO, that those teams would want to play in the play-in games. They would have the eyes of the nation upon them on Tuesday and Wednesday evening instead of just being cut in on from time to time as will likely happen on Thursday and Friday. There entire tourney experience would not have been a beat-down administered at the hands of the #1 seeds. And someone has to win those play-in games. So they would get to play a team more on their level and have a 50/50 chance of playing on Thursday or Friday anyway. Maybe I am misunderstanding, but that is how I see it.

[Revering4Blue]

Thanks.

So if I am following this correctly; if they had all play-in games for 16 seeds, then that would have involved the 8 lowest-ranked teams. And these 8 teams, more than likely, would have been the representatives of the minor conferences. I am assuming that the losers of these four play-in games are going to get the same amount of money as if they lost a first round game. So it would seem to me, just MO, that those teams would want to play in the play-in games. They would have the eyes of the nation upon them on Tuesday and Wednesday evening instead of just being cut in on from time to time as will likely happen on Thursday and Friday. There entire tourney experience would not have been a beat-down administered at the hands of the #1 seeds. And someone has to win those play-in games. So they would get to play a team more on their level and have a 50/50 chance of playing on Thursday or Friday anyway. Maybe I am misunderstanding, but that is how I see it.

IIRC, the precedent for the play-in round we have today began in the early '80's. Before the tournament expanded to 64 and 48 teams qualified, there were 4 play-in games in Dayton to determine the four lowest seeds - which were then #12 seeded. It was referred to as the Preliminary Round back then.

Xavier participated in the '83 preliminary round, falling to a very good Alcorn State team, who then gave Patrick Ewing and Georgetown all they could handle in the next round.

Another notable Preliminary round survivor was Richmond in '84, who then proceeded to knock off Auburn - a team with a couple of dudes named Charles Barkley and Chuck Person.

[Boston Red]

No one wants to play in the play-in games. If you lose, it's like you were never in the Tournament. Most people don't really start paying attention to the Tournament until Thursday. There have been years I forgot the play-in games were even on.

[Assembly Hall]

IIRC, the precedent for the play-in round we have today began in the early '80's. Before the tournament expanded to 64 and 48 teams qualified, there were 4 play-in games in Dayton to determine the four lowest seeds - which were then #12 seeded. It was referred to as the Preliminary Round back then.

Xavier participated in the '83 preliminary round, falling to a very good Alcorn State team, who then gave Patrick Ewing and Georgetown all they could handle in the next round.

Another notable Preliminary round survivor was Richmond in '84, who then proceeded to knock off Auburn - a team with a couple of dudes named Charles Barkley and Chuck Person.

I remember that Blue. Where are you finding those brackets at? I cannot find any brackets that show the preliminary rounds from those days.

[RiverRat13]

Which could be a function of the sluggish conference, no? Oh, and I prefer "ACTUALLY" when I'm gonna brashly correct someone.

I apologize if it came off that way. I was going to agree with the original poster but I looked it up and we both were wrong.

And as far as the conference style, I used Pomeroy's adjusted tempo which takes into account who you play.

[Revering4Blue]

I remember that Blue. Where are you finding those brackets at? I cannot find any brackets that show the preliminary rounds from those days.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/postseason/

Once you click the link for the bracket for, say, 1983, click the "opening round" link.

Warning: This website is addictive. Your free time will quickly disappear.

[Revering4Blue]

Speaking of free time/ production (or lack of it), fellow Redzoners may not be happy with me posting this link, but here 'tis.

http://vault.ncaa.com/

Classic highlights and complete classic games are here.

[traderumor]

I apologize if it came off that way. I was going to agree with the original poster but I looked it up and we both were wrong.

And as far as the conference style, I used Pomeroy's adjusted tempo which takes into account who you play.
Fair enough, appreciate the apology, and respect your use of a statistic, but I'm not sure that it is even possible to capture what I was speaking to in a stat. I'm sure it is a vetted stat, I was speaking from observation, not sure I'd characterize Matta's OSU as purposefully a slow tempo team with an up tempo style the exception.

[WMR]

Does anyone know if there is a MM app or site to watch online this year? Do you need to register?

[cumberlandreds]

Does anyone know if there is a MM app or site to watch online this year? Do you need to register?

Here you go. No registration required. They also have an app for your phone or IPad.


http://www.ncaa.com/march-madness-live/

[Boston Red]

Go Shockers!

[klw]

Go Wildcats!


(Davidson- in case there happen to be any other Wildcats in the tournament:D)

[texasdave]

Butler and Bucknell apparently do not like the arena they are playing in, because they are hoisting up enough bricks to build a new one. In what is probably a rarity nowadays in college ball there have been zero trifectas made in the first half. The teams are a combined 0-11 from distance. 21-14 at half time.

[cumberlandreds]

Go Wildcats!


(Davidson- in case there happen to be anyone other in the tournament:D)

Kansas State and Arizona are at least two others.

[texasdave]

I am pulling for Wichita State simply because I am dying to work Husker Du into a post. One of my favorite bands.

[Reds Fanatic]

St. Mary's almost pulled off a miracle finish but Memphis wins by 2.

[Reds Fanatic]

Marquette beats Davidson on a shot with 1 second left

[Revering4Blue]

Whew!

Marquette advances.

That was one trendy upset pick that I didn't buy into, but the Davidson Wildcats nearly proved me wrong.

[klw]

Marquette beats Davidson on a shot with 1 second left

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWaLxFIVX1s

[Tom Servo]

Southern gave Gonzaga a run for their money.

[Mutaman]

Marquette beats Davidson on a shot with 1 second left

Ring out Ahoya!

[Reds Fanatic]

Harvard about to pull off a huge upset over New Mexico

[Revering4Blue]

Two higher-seeded MWC teams eliminated in the first round.

RPI, shmRPI.

One bright spot for the MWC: Larry Eustachy, say what you will about his off-court issues, has once again proven that he can coach.

Granted, from a coaching standpoint, Eustachy wasn't exactly coaching against a genius tonight.

[traderumor]

Two higher-seeded MWC teams eliminated in the first round.

RPI, shmRPI.

One bright spot for the MWC: Larry Eustachy, say what you will about his off-court issues, has once again proven that he can coach.

Granted, from a coaching standpoint, Eustachy wasn't exactly coaching against a genius tonight.My 12 year old son is smarter than Charles Barclay, who claimed that the MWC was as strong/stronger than the Big 10 on selection Sunday, to which my son claimed shenanigans. Barclay obviously is as big a blowhard off the court as on.

[Chip R]

My 12 year old son is smarter than Charles Barclay, who claimed that the MWC was as strong/stronger than the Big 10 on selection Sunday, to which my son claimed shenanigans. Barclay obviously is as big a blowhard off the court as on.

I really don't think Charles has any idea what he's talking about as far as college basketball is concerned. They just have him up there for ratings.

[cumberlandreds]

I really don't think Charles has any idea what he's talking about as far as college basketball is concerned. They just have him up there for ratings.

I always considered him there for entertainment. Which he does very well. I think the only thing he knows about college basketball is what is fed to him through some CBS assistant.

The Pac-12 may have been underestimated by everyone. All three teams yesterday had impressive wins.

[vaticanplum]

Harvard about to pull off a huge upset over New Mexico

Crimsonanity!!

[RBA]

I always considered him there for entertainment. Which he does very well. I think the only thing he knows about college basketball is what is fed to him through some CBS assistant.

The Pac-12 may have been underestimated by everyone. All three teams yesterday had impressive wins.

Looks like the Big 10 was over rated. I relied on the bracket makers for most of my picks as I dont follow college ball. Big mistake. :o

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

[traderumor]

This is a tough year for picking winners. The way I looked at the field, the top 3 seeds are probably a step above, with the rest pick 'em. Now, I think every game was a pick 'em. The field is so balanced that it is all about who plays better that day. The talent of most teams is not that big a disparity from top to bottom this year.

[Tom Servo]

Well my bracket is a mess, though none of my top teams have been eliminated yet.

[SunDeck]

I certainly did not see Wisconsin going down. The only people in our pool who would have picked Harvard are the ones who use team colors and such.

[Mutaman]

My 12 year old son is smarter than Charles Barclay, who claimed that the MWC was as strong/stronger than the Big 10 on selection Sunday, to which my son claimed shenanigans. Barclay obviously is as big a blowhard off the court as on.

i saw Barkley at the Garden a few times. Always came out about half an hour , 45 minutes before the game and walked around the court talking to fans, to kids and posing for pictures with them. Then he went out and played hard. He could be on my team.

[*BaseClogger*]

Looks like the Big 10 was over rated.

What?

[traderumor]

i saw Barkley at the Garden a few times. Always came out about half an hour , 45 minutes before the game and walked around the court talking to fans, to kids and posing for pictures with them. Then he went out and played hard. He could be on my team.Nice story. What's that have to do with the quality of his analysis that he's now getting paid for? But then as someone pointed out, he's not getting paid to be smart. If he's ok with the funny buffoon gig, then I guess I am too. :D

[traderumor]

I certainly did not see Wisconsin going down. The only people in our pool who would have picked Harvard are the ones who use team colors and such.I picked Ole Miss. Wisconsin was barely average this year, Ryan was quite the illusionist during the conference season this year. The curtain was pulled back today.

[traderumor]

Well my bracket is a mess, though none of my top teams have been eliminated yet.New Mexico and UNLV were both elite 8 for me. They fooled a lot of people apparently.

[SunDeck]

I picked Ole Miss. Wisconsin was barely average this year, Ryan was quite the illusionist during the conference season this year. The curtain was pulled back today.

Did you pick Wisconsin to lose?

[Reds Fanatic]

Lasalle up 2 on K State with 9 seconds left

[Reds Fanatic]

Lasalle pulls off the upset

[Boston Red]

Delete

[Boston Red]

The star of the first round of the NCAA Tournament....the Atlantic 10. Wow.

[Mutaman]

Nice story. What's that have to do with the quality of his analysis that he's now getting paid for? But then as someone pointed out, he's not getting paid to be smart. If he's ok with the funny buffoon gig, then I guess I am too. :D

You said he was a "blowhard" "on" the court. And, if you agree that "he's not getting paid to be smart" , then what exactly are you complaining about? And what does any of this have to do with being "smart", a word you have used several times in describing him.

In any event, i find Charles very entertaining, which is what its all about. I can go elsewhere for my "expert" analysis.

[Assembly Hall]

I picked Ole Miss. Wisconsin was barely average this year, Ryan was quite the illusionist during the conference season this year. The curtain was pulled back today.


LOL......this is the tournament, upsets happen man. Wiscy plays a particluar brand of ball. It worked well on one end, and was woeful on the other.

[Assembly Hall]

The star of the first round of the NCAA Tournament....the Atlantic 10. Wow.

I would agree, but let's see how the do in the next round.

[Boston Red]

I would agree, but let's see how the do in the next round.

That's why I was careful with FIRST round. If they get more than 2 through to the Sweet Sixteen, I'll be surprised.

[Assembly Hall]

That's why I was careful with FIRST round. If they get more than 2 through to the Sweet Sixteen, I'll be surprised.

I am with ya on that as well!!!!!:thumbup:

[Reds Fanatic]

Florida Gulf Coast is looking good. Up 8 on Georgetown early in the 2nd half

[dougdirt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKjWbf3Nq5k

[Boston Red]

Loved seeing the wife of the FGCU with her brood of kids stressing down the stretch. Showed the human side of it all. Her life has changed forever with this win.

[Mutaman]

Thompson really needs to reboot his methods. That team was not ready tonight and its happened before in this tournament.

[Assembly Hall]

Loved seeing the wife of the FGCU with her brood of kids stressing down the stretch. Showed the human side of it all. Her life has changed forever with this win.

I just liked seeing her period!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

[dougdirt]

Thompson really needs to reboot his methods. That team was not ready tonight and its happened before in this tournament.

Georgetown has lost to a double digit seed five straight years now. :lol::laugh::lol:

[dougdirt]

ESPN Stats & Info @ESPNStatsInfo
Georgetown is the 1st team ever to be eliminated in 4 straight NCAA Tournaments by a team seeded at least 5 spots lower.

[HotCorner]

I just liked seeing her period!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

Her name is Amanda Marcum Enfield. Apparently she was a professional model.

[HotCorner]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7EJDzIMI04Q

[Boston Red]

Let's go Toppers! I believe!

[Mutaman]

Georgetown has lost to a double digit seed five straight years now. :lol::laugh::lol:

On a given night anything can happen, but GT was maybe as a good a defensive team as I saw this past year. They held Louisville to 51. That team was nowhere to be seen tonight.

[HotCorner]

On a given night anything can happen, but GT was maybe as a good a defensive team as I saw this past year. They held Louisville to 51. That team was nowhere to be seen tonight.

Agreed but FGCU did beat Miami (The U) earlier this season. They're legit.

[Mutaman]

Agreed but FGCU did beat Miami (The U) earlier this season. They're legit.

No question about it. But still, GT gave up more points in 20 minutes tonight then Syracuse scored on them in an entire game. In Syracuse!

[Revering4Blue]

ESPN Stats & Info @ESPNStatsInfo
Georgetown is the 1st team ever to be eliminated in 4 straight NCAA Tournaments by a team seeded at least 5 spots lower.



- In 2008, they were the second victim of heavyweight serial killer Stephen Curry, losing to No. 10 seed Davidson in the second round as a No. 2 seed.

- In 2010, No. 3 seed Georgetown lost 97-83 to the DJ Cooper-led Ohio Bobcats in the first round in a game that they simply never seemed to have a chance.

- The same thing happened in 2011, when No. 11 seed VCU, fresh off of a win in the play-in game, drubbed the Hoyas 74-56 in the opening round of the tournament.

- Last year, No. 11 seed NC State picked off No. 3 seed Georgetown 66-63.

To be fair, the Hoyas lost to some really good teams then.

As for this year, I'll argue that this year's Georgetown team actually overachieved during the regular season. Though they played well after losing Greg Whittington for the season, Whittington's presence took the pressure off of Otto Porter and Hopkins, among others.

Also, as previous stated , Florida Gulf Coast previously defeated the Miami Hurricanes, albeit in mid-November.

All of this stated, there is a lot of merit in what Mutaman stated about J.T III.
He seems slow, at least he did tonight, in making adjustments, such as finally, when the Hoyas were far behind, deciding to try to run with FGC - which the T.V analysts (and every person in every living room or Sports Bar) were clamoring for Georgetown to do.

[dougdirt]

Also, as previous stated , Florida Gulf Coast previously defeated the Miami Hurricanes, albeit in mid-November.


FGCU also lost to Stetson and Lipscomb a month ago. Those two schools finished a combined 25-34 with neither school having a winning record. Heck, they lost to Lipscomb TWICE this year. They lost to 10-19 Maine. They lost to 9-22 East Tennessee State. Ouch.

[WMR]

JohnThompson Junior sucks. Nepotism at its finest.

GO TOPS!!!

[Revering4Blue]

JohnThompson Junior sucks. Nepotism at its finest.

GO TOPS!!!

You have to wonder if he'd be gone by now if not for the 2007 final four - the one in which a star-studded, heavily favored Tar Heel team choked in the Elite 8 against a Hoya team with Roy Hibbert..and not much else.

[dougdirt]

JohnThompson Junior sucks. Nepotism at its finest.

GO TOPS!!!

The current coach at Georgetown is actually John Thompson III.

Also, go Hilltoppers!

[WMR]

The current coach at Georgetown is actually John Thompson III.

Also, go Hilltoppers!

He's Junior to me. :laugh:

[RiverRat13]

You have to wonder if he'd be gone by now if not for the 2007 final four - the one in which a star-studded, heavily favored Tar Heel team choked in the Elite 8 against a Hoya team with Roy Hibbert..and not much else.

Jeff Green was on that team.

[Revering4Blue]

Jeff Green was on that team.

True.

But the Tar Heels were, as always, loaded.

Upsets happen, as they often do in a one-and-done tournament.

That's one of many reasons why the NCAA tournament is, IMO, the best sporting event of the year, rivaled only by MLB opening day, or at least the way MLB used to open the season. But that's a topic for another thread.

[Mutaman]

JohnThompson Junior sucks. Nepotism at its finest.

GO TOPS!!!

No he doesn't suck. He recruits decent players, as far as I know runs a clean program, and every year during the regular seasons puts a very tough team on the floor. But he clearly has a problem getting his team ready for the NCAA. And you can say the same thing about Mike Brey and Jamie Dixon.

[RiverRat13]

Western Kentucky can't buy a bucket. Still hanging around.

[Danny Serafini]

Fun fact of the day: every player on Georgetown's roster is older than Florida Gulf Coast University, which didn't hold its first class until August 1997.

[WMR]

So Junior can win games that no one cares about? And that's supposed to secure his job?

I'm happy with him at Gtown, it assures they'll never win anything significant.

[WMR]

Fun fact of the day: every player on Georgetown's roster is older than Florida Gulf Coast University, which didn't hold its first class until August 1997.

I've gotta believe there are certain parts of Florida where that knowledge can get a fella laid right now...

[Assembly Hall]

It has become quite apparent that G-Town here lately, is a team that just struggles in the tournament. I know that some might think they over-achieved, but they were a #2 seed and it wasnt that long ago they were projected as a #1. May be they are just a team that is built for the regular season grind? They need to get some lessons from Bo Ryan and the Wisconsin Badgers on how to make deep runs!!!!!!!!:lol:

[dabvu2498]

You have to wonder if he'd be gone by now if not for the 2007 final four - the one in which a star-studded, heavily favored Tar Heel team choked in the Elite 8 against a Hoya team with Roy Hibbert..and not much else.

And Georgetown had no business making it past the Sweet 16 in 07 because Jeff Green walked.

http://youtu.be/RxNMaEkyZF8

So there!

[Revering4Blue]

It has become quite apparent that G-Town here lately, is a team that just struggles in the tournament. I know that some might think they over-achieved, but they were a #2 seed and it wasnt that long ago they were projected as a #1. May be they are just a team that is built for the regular season grind? They need to get some lessons from Bo Ryan and the Wisconsin Badgers on how to make deep runs!!!!!!!!:lol:

Like the deep run the Badgers made this season? :D

[Revering4Blue]

No he doesn't suck. He recruits decent players, as far as I know runs a clean program, and every year during the regular seasons puts a very tough team on the floor. But he clearly has a problem getting his team ready for the NCAA. And you can say the same thing about Mike Brey and Jamie Dixon.

Well, sort of.

Dixon arguably has had as much, if not more, talent to work with - year-in and year-out - than J.T III.

Brey, on the other hand, among the high-profile Big East programs, arguably has continually dealt with the east amount of talent. And Brey's players actually improve year after year - recent examples: Jack Cooley and Tim Abromaitis, who would have made a huge difference to last year's team.

Recruiting - Notre Dame's basketball facilities are not as good as most assume - seems to be Brey's biggest problem. Then again, Buzz Williams seems to be doing fine at Marquette without running out multiple blue-chippers year after year.

[jmac]

Looks like Oregon has lived up so far to what was being said about their seeding.

[Revering4Blue]

UCLA has fired basketball head coach Ben Howland, reports Yahoo! Sports.

Who will be the next Bruin head coach? Shaka Smart?

[Reds Fanatic]

Looks like the first number one seed is about to go down. Gonzaga down 5 with 45 seconds left

[RBA]

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/554527_532855930094501_1786616461_n.jpg

[Mutaman]

Well, sort of.

Dixon arguably has had as much, if not more, talent to work with - year-in and year-out - than J.T III.

Brey, on the other hand, among the high-profile Big East programs, arguably has continually dealt with the east amount of talent. And Brey's players actually improve year after year - recent examples: Jack Cooley and Tim Abromaitis, who would have made a huge difference to last year's team.

Recruiting - Notre Dame's basketball facilities are not as good as most assume - seems to be Brey's biggest problem. Then again, Buzz Williams seems to be doing fine at Marquette without running out multiple blue-chippers year after year.

You misunderstood- I think Brey's a terrific coach, he just doesn't do very well in the tournament. Buzz on the other hand, well Ring Out Ahoya!

[Revering4Blue]

You misunderstood- I think Brey's a terrific coach, he just doesn't do very well in the tournament. Buzz on the other hand, well Ring Out Ahoya!

Oh, I know that.

I took it as while J.T III, Brey, and Dixon haven't experienced NCAA success to the extent fans are hoping for, none of them deserve to be canned, and that fans overreact. I was just pointing out that expectations - read: sweet sixteens - given the talent at Notre Dame, seem unrealistic.

Anyway, congrats on the win tonight and good luck against Miami or Illinois.

This is a fitting tribute to Jerome Whitehead, the former Marquette star center and the best backup Center in the NBA for many years, who recently passed away.

[Mutaman]

Oh, I know that.

I took it as while J.T III, Brey, and Dixon haven't experienced NCAA success to the extent fans are hoping for, none of them deserve to be canned, and that fans overreact. I was just pointing out that expectations - read: sweet sixteens - given the talent at Notre Dame, seem unrealistic.

Anyway, congrats on the win tonight and good luck against Miami or Illinois.

This is a fitting tribute to Jerome Whitehead, the former Marquette star center and the best backup Center in the NBA for many years, who recently passed away.

Thanks buddy. Good old Jerome-Al's big aircraft carrier who made a big basket one time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5u8JuNltiw

[Assembly Hall]

Brey, on the other hand, among the high-profile Big East programs, arguably has continually dealt with the east amount of talent. And Brey's players actually improve year after year - recent examples: Jack Cooley and Tim Abromaitis, who would have made a huge difference to last year's team.


There would be a lot of Irish fans that would argue the above statement around me. They would say Brey doesn't like playing freshmen at all unless he absolutely needs them and most guys don't taste the floor until they are a junior. :eek:

[Assembly Hall]

Thanks buddy. Good old Jerome-Al's big aircraft carrier who made a big basket one time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5u8JuNltiw

What is sad about that is that I am old enough to remember watching it live!!!!! I aint a Marquette fan, but I truly enjoyed watching that team.

[bucksfan2]

In regards to JTIII, he is an awful coach. His good run in the tournaments came when Jeff Green was on his teams. Green was one of the best players in college basketball during his time. He played a point forward and had Hibbert down below. Ever since Green left Georgetown has been a disappointment. I agree with the poster who said he has his job because of his dad. Right now he isn't getting the job done.

Ben Howland I thought was one of the best coaches in college basketball. He got his team to play hard game in and game out. That was evident by their two straight final 4 runs. In recent years UcLA has fallen off and I have no idea why.

[KoryMac5]

In regards to JTIII, he is an awful coach. His good run in the tournaments came when Jeff Green was on his teams. Green was one of the best players in college basketball during his time. He played a point forward and had Hibbert down below. Ever since Green left Georgetown has been a disappointment. I agree with the poster who said he has his job because of his dad. Right now he isn't getting the job done.

Ben Howland I thought was one of the best coaches in college basketball. He got his team to play hard game in and game out. That was evident by their two straight final 4 runs. In recent years UcLA has fallen off and I have no idea why.

Howland was already on shaky ground with the program in recent yrs after few articles had surfaced basically painting the picture that he had lost control of the program and highly recruited players were walking all over him.

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/ncb/story/_/id/7629031/ucla-bruins-coach-ben-howland-lost-control-highly-recruited-players-according-report

[Razor Shines]

Clark Kellogg is seriously terrible. Jim Nantzaclause should not allow him to get away with saying the ridiculous things that he does. He already put his son's team on the naughty list but apparently that wasn't enough.

Kellogg defended the very questionable (bad IMO) call on which Craft drew the charge and then after Zeller takes a fairly clear charge he says he wants the benefit to go to the offensive player.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[thatcoolguy_22]

Wyatt for Temple is on fire. Wow.

[Razor Shines]

I have heard that during the post game hand shake after a win Tom Crean doesn't say "good game" or anything like that. I've heard that after a win he actually disparages every coach or player he comes to, recounting as best he can each and every mistake they made during the game. And if he can't think of anything that coach or player did wrong he just says "suck it" and moves on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[thatcoolguy_22]

I have heard that during the post game hand shake after a win Tom Crean doesn't say "good game" or anything like that. I've heard that after a win he actually disparages every coach or player he comes to, recounting as best he can each and every mistake they made during the game. And if he can't think of anything that coach or player did wrong he just says "suck it" and moves on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I heard he once bit the head off a live bat and spit it into an opposing coaches face instead of shaking hands.

Great shot by Oladipo to put that game out of reach. I don't know anything about Wyatt, but he made a name for himself for NBA teams looking for a scoring #2.

[dabvu2498]

I don't know anything about Wyatt, but he made a name for himself for NBA teams looking for a scoring #2.

He's a dog.

I was there today. Once the officials decided to let Oladipo camp inside Wyatt's uniform, it was a matter of time before they caught up with Temple. I was hoping it would happen after 0:00.00. Dunphy's kids fought and scrapped and clawed. A very admirable effort that was not rewarded.

[Assembly Hall]

He's a dog.

I was there today. Once the officials decided to let Oladipo camp inside Wyatt's uniform, it was a matter of time before they caught up with Temple. I was hoping it would happen after 0:00.00. Dunphy's kids fought and scrapped and clawed. A very admirable effort that was not rewarded.

LOL......survive and advance.

[WVRed]

Howland was already on shaky ground with the program in recent yrs after few articles had surfaced basically painting the picture that he had lost control of the program and highly recruited players were walking all over him.

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/ncb/story/_/id/7629031/ucla-bruins-coach-ben-howland-lost-control-highly-recruited-players-according-report

Bingo. Howland is the west coast Tubby Smith, albeit with a better track record. Uninspiring type of basketball with the program disintegrating from the national scene.

UCLA has to do better than Shaka Smart.They need a John Calipari type of hire.someone who runs an offense that players want to play for.That being said, I don't know if there is a quick fix hire.

[Mutaman]

Is it just me or does anyone else think it more than a coincidence that certain schools get what amounts to a home court advantage in the tourney and then get the advantage of ridiculous calls down the stretch in their games? Not to mention the blatant boosterism in favor of the big money schools by certain CBS announcers.

I'm not conspiratorially minded but this is getting a little hard to ignore. If I was Creighton, I'd keep my hands on my wallet.

[bucksfan2]

He's a dog.

I was there today. Once the officials decided to let Oladipo camp inside Wyatt's uniform, it was a matter of time before they caught up with Temple. I was hoping it would happen after 0:00.00. Dunphy's kids fought and scrapped and clawed. A very admirable effort that was not rewarded.

The one play that bothered me was late in the game and I think it was Oladipo. He got a rebound and started up court, spun right into Wyatt, Wyatt stole the ball but was called for a foul. That was a 4 point swing and that late in the game was probably the clinching foul call.

I don't know why it happens but it seems like every tournament the officiating gets a little worse and the flagrant 1's get analyzed more. I can't really recall many that happened during OSU's regular season but it seems like every game has one or two. As much as I don't like Teddy Valentine, he does a better job than many of the officials so far in this tournament.

[WVRed]

Florida Gulf Coast is running away from San Diego State. Unbelievable team. The player who had the dunk against Georgetown is from Parkersburg. Definitely pulling for them with UK out of the tournament.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

[Reds Fanatic]

Florida Gulf Coast is a fun team to watch. They will take on Florida Friday night.

[Reds Fanatic]

Lasalle advances to the sweet 16 on a shot with 2 seconds left

[bigredmechanism]

This weekend has been awesome.

[Boston Red]

Big XII has the same number of teams remaining as the A-10, A-Sun, MVC and SEC. That was a bad league this year. You could tell before the Tournament because K-State won a share of its regular season title.

[RiverRat13]

UCLA has to do better than Shaka Smart.They need a John Calipari type of hire.someone who runs an offense that players want to play for.That being said, I don't know if there is a quick fix hire.

I think a lot of players would love to play the style Smart employs. His lack of experience on the West Coast recruiting would give me more pause if I'm UCLA than his offensive style.

[Hoosier Red]

Is it just me or does anyone else think it more than a coincidence that certain schools get what amounts to a home court advantage in the tourney and then get the advantage of ridiculous calls down the stretch in their games? Not to mention the blatant boosterism in favor of the big money schools by certain CBS announcers.

I'm not conspiratorially minded but this is getting a little hard to ignore. If I was Creighton, I'd keep my hands on my wallet.

Home court is not really a conspiracy as the procedures pretty much explicitly state that each team in the top 16 (seeds 1-4 in each region) gets the game in the closest remaining pod.

As for the officiating, it's so inconsistent from one play to the next that it's hard to really quantify any conspiracy. Perhaps they do that to throw us off the scent. :)

The play that Bucksfan was referencing was a perfect example. They let both sides get away with a lot of contact through much of the game but then called that a foul.

The play "only" led to a 3 point swing as Oladipo missed one free throw, but the swing of up 1 vs down 2(as Wyatt had a clear layup) was really big.

[dabvu2498]

Tubby fired at Minnesota? Kinda sad.

[Sea Ray]

Tubby fired at Minnesota? Kinda sad.

I was surprised to hear that. I thought he did a pretty good job there considering it was Minnesota and all. What more did they expect from him? What is it about Tubby that folks don't like?

[jimbo]

Tubby fired at Minnesota? Kinda sad.

This is pretty disappointing. I thought he had done a nice job up there, it is Minnesota for heaven's sake. I'm sure he'll get plenty of opportunities elsewhere.

[Slyder]

I'm somewhat surprised they seem to be making some movement.

[Revering4Blue]

I was surprised to hear that. I thought he did a pretty good job there considering it was Minnesota and all. What more did they expect from him? What is it about Tubby that folks don't like?

The perception of Smith, fair or not, is that he is the NCAA version of Lenny Wilkens: Classy, plays by the rules, possesses the ability to take a team from "bad" to "good". But cannot take a team from "good" to "great".

His lack of recruiting success within the state of Minnesota, which is actually more talent laden than most realize, and the amount of successful high-profile transfers under his regime - Devoe Joseph, Colt Iverson and Royce White, to name a few - didn't sit well with Gopher fans / boosters.

Nevertheless, as you and others have pointed out, it is Minnesota. It will require a Herculean effort for Minnesota to become a year-in / year - out B1G powerhouse.

Remember when Glen Mason's Gopher Football teams finished with winning records - many times 8-3 or 7-4 - and that wasn't good enough?

His replacement, Tim Brewster, was a disaster. It is not at all unlikely that the same fate may befall the Gopher hoops program, unless a home run hire emerges.

Good luck with that.

[Boston Red]

The only coach ever to take Gonzaga to the Elite Eight certainly flamed out there.

[Revering4Blue]

The only coach ever to take Gonzaga to the Elite Eight certainly flamed out there.

True.

But Dan Monson was behind the Eight-Ball from the get-go, thanks to several years of recruiting sanctions imposed after Clem Haskins got caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

[WMR]

Racists...

[dabvu2498]

True.

But Dan Monson was behind the Eight-Ball from the get-go, thanks to several years of recruiting sanctions imposed after Clem Haskins got caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

Which brings us to another point... Minnesota has only been good with Mychal Thompson or if they let the staff secretary write their players' papers.

[kaldaniels]

I don't know that Minnesota can realistically do better than Glen Mason and Tubby Smith.

Shame to see them run those guys off the past few years.

[WVRed]

Racists...

Took the words right out of my mouth. I'll leave my thoughts in the UK thread however. :)

Tubby's problem is that he forces players to play to "his" style of basketball rather than building around the players. He has to have "his" recruits to run it which means sacrificing McDonald's All Americans for lesser talent.

I think another reason Tubby was outed was the 2014 recruiting class. Two top recruits are from Minnesota and they need someone who is able to keep them in-state. One of the recruits is Tyus Jones, who is already being recruited by Calipari at Kentucky.

[bucksfan2]

Home court is not really a conspiracy as the procedures pretty much explicitly state that each team in the top 16 (seeds 1-4 in each region) gets the game in the closest remaining pod.

As for the officiating, it's so inconsistent from one play to the next that it's hard to really quantify any conspiracy. Perhaps they do that to throw us off the scent. :)

The play that Bucksfan was referencing was a perfect example. They let both sides get away with a lot of contact through much of the game but then called that a foul.

The play "only" led to a 3 point swing as Oladipo missed one free throw, but the swing of up 1 vs down 2(as Wyatt had a clear layup) was really big.

The consistency has been abysmal in this tournament so far. Looking back at the OSU game there was a play early when Shannon Scott read the ball handlers break up court, stepped in front and stole the ball for an easy layup. There was contact but it was more of Scott beating the man to the ball. Then in the second half he was called for a nickle dimer on a loose ball situation where no one had possession of the ball.

The major problem I have in the NCAA tournament is I think the game is officiated a little tighter. A little tighter means an early 2nd foul on a key player or an early 4th foul in a critical situation. I would rather have the official swallow the whistle than call a foul changes the scope of the game. In the Wyatt Oladipo situation, Wyatt beat Oladipo to the spot, maintained his ground and should have made an impact steal. Watching it live I thought to my self, that isn't a foul in the B1G or even the Big East.

I do differ (shockingly) in the Craft situation. There was entirely too much contact not to blow the whistle and call a foul. I have yet to see evidence that it wasn't a charge. And to be honest when you have the reputation of being as good of a defender as Craft it, you get the benefit of the doubt when Charles Barkley is blowing up the screen 100X to find out if Craft's foot was hovering over the line.

I would like to see the NCAA do way with the pods situation and go back to the way the tournament used to be held. If you are placed in the West region then you go west. In OSU's situation they got placed in the West, should they really get to play the first 2 games in Dayton?

[improbus]

The issue of the block/charge call has really taken its toll on the college game. With the closeness of the three point line, and the ability of defenders to come from across the lane to take a charge, there is little incentive to attack the basket. So, teams jack up bad threes.

Really, that was my problem with the Craft play. I don't mind the call in that situation, because the officials have established that the defender can slide in to take a charge. But, the NCAA needs to make some sort of change to the rule or seem sort of mandate to adjust the way it is called.

Finally, the Florida Gulf Coast offense found a way to avoid the charge problem. The driver stops short of the rim and instead throws an alley oop. It isn't just exciting, it's smart.

[Revering4Blue]

I would like to see the NCAA do way with the pods situation and go back to the way the tournament used to be held. If you are placed in the West region then you go west.

I agree with you.

However, this article disagrees with us.


The Pod System: For Once, The NCAA Got Something Right.

http://www.teamrankings.com/blog/ncaa-basketball/the-pod-system-for-once-the-ncaa-got-something-right-stat-geek-idol

[Revering4Blue]

Which brings us to another point... Minnesota has only been good with Mychal Thompson or if they let the staff secretary write their players' papers.

Kevin McHale, Randy Breuer and Zebedee Howell will argue otherwise.

The Bill Musselman era in the early '70's produced a Big Ten Champ under shady circumstances - A brawl against Ohio State and paying players - which was later vacated.

[Assembly Hall]

I questioned Tubby want the Minnesota job to begin with, but I thought it was a great hire for the Gophers. I guess they expect more in Minnesota than what Tubby was doing for them. With his recent firing I expect next year we will the Gophers fighting with Nebraska and Penn State for that all important 10 seed in the B1G tournament.

[texasdave]

FGC coach is living the life right about now. His team is magically into the Sweet 16. And this is his wife, Amanda Enfield. She was in the Maxim Swimsuit Issue for enquiring minds.

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/772/548/110429SP-EnfieldAmanda_t607_original.jpg?1363721902

[Assembly Hall]

If I become the coach of Indiana Lake Michigan Shore, will I get a wife that looks like that? Just askin'? :beerme:

[Boston Red]

FGC coach is living the life right about now. His team is magically into the Sweet 16. And this is his wife, Amanda Enfield. She was in the Maxim Swimsuit Issue for enquiring minds.

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/772/548/110429SP-EnfieldAmanda_t607_original.jpg?1363721902

She still looks pretty damned good, but this picture was taken two or three kids ago.

[Razor Shines]

The consistency has been abysmal in this tournament so far. Looking back at the OSU game there was a play early when Shannon Scott read the ball handlers break up court, stepped in front and stole the ball for an easy layup. There was contact but it was more of Scott beating the man to the ball. Then in the second half he was called for a nickle dimer on a loose ball situation where no one had possession of the ball.

The major problem I have in the NCAA tournament is I think the game is officiated a little tighter. A little tighter means an early 2nd foul on a key player or an early 4th foul in a critical situation. I would rather have the official swallow the whistle than call a foul changes the scope of the game. In the Wyatt Oladipo situation, Wyatt beat Oladipo to the spot, maintained his ground and should have made an impact steal. Watching it live I thought to my self, that isn't a foul in the B1G or even the Big East.

I do differ (shockingly) in the Craft situation. There was entirely too much contact not to blow the whistle and call a foul. I have yet to see evidence that it wasn't a charge. And to be honest when you have the reputation of being as good of a defender as Craft it, you get the benefit of the doubt when Charles Barkley is blowing up the screen 100X to find out if Craft's foot was hovering over the line.

I would like to see the NCAA do way with the pods situation and go back to the way the tournament used to be held. If you are placed in the West region then you go west. In OSU's situation they got placed in the West, should they really get to play the first 2 games in Dayton?

So you think the call that went in IUs favor was a bad call and the one that went in Ohio State's favor was a good call? Once again i am shocked by your brutal honesty and willingness to call it like it is.

BTW I agree with you on the Wyatt/Oladiepo call but not so much on the Craft call. Like you said we have to blow up 100X to see if he's on the line or above it then it would make more sense to give the benefit to the offensive player. Otherwise we're saying that based on the slight chance Craft's heel was millimeters above the line we're going to give him the benefit of the doubt.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bucksfan2]

So you think the call that went in IUs favor was a bad call and the one that went in Ohio State's favor was a good call? Once again i am shocked by your brutal honesty and willingness to call it like it is.

BTW I agree with you on the Wyatt/Oladiepo call but not so much on the Craft call. Like you said we have to blow up 100X to see if he's on the line or above it then it would make more sense to give the benefit to the offensive player. Otherwise we're saying that based on the slight chance Craft's heel was millimeters above the line we're going to give him the benefit of the doubt.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Let me rephrase myself. On the Craft play something needed to be called. There was entirely too much contact, especially by the rim for a play on to be allowed. From what I saw Craft was textbook in setting up, the issue being the circle under the basket. From all the basketball I have watched this year that is a charge.

If you want to talk about the larger issue being charges then I think they need to be addressed. I am a proponent of anytime a player hitting the deck trying to draw a charge a foul being called. If you penalize players for flopping more then you won't have as many people trying to draw charges. If your going to use the defensive semi circle then make it bigger and enforce it more.

[improbus]

The issue with me isn't with Craft's foot. It is that he was on the other side of the lane when the players was driving. According to the NCAA: http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/ncaa/resources/latest+news/2012/june/prop+approves+basketball+court-surface+rule

Secondary defenders (help defenders) moving forward or to the side are also in violation and those should be blocking fouls.

Isn't that exactly what Craft was doing? Am I misreading that rule?

[kaldaniels]

The issue with me isn't with Craft's foot. It is that he was on the other side of the lane when the players was driving. According to the NCAA: http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/ncaa/resources/latest+news/2012/june/prop+approves+basketball+court-surface+rule


Isn't that exactly what Craft was doing? Am I misreading that rule?

I really don't know but "moving" may be the key word. Craft had gotten to his spot and was no longer "moving".

[Revering4Blue]

Some good reads here:

Breaking Down the Sweet 16: Key matchups in each game.

http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/03/25/breaking-down-the-sweet-16-key-matchups-in-each-game/

NCAA tournament’s first week gets highest ratings in 23 years.

http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/03/25/ncaa-tournaments-first-week-gets-highest-ratings-in-23-years/

The moment things started to unravel for Ben Howland at UCLA.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/-college-basketball-mens-tournament/news/20130325/ucla-ben-howland/

How to fix Georgetown’s stunning string of March Madness disasters (without firing JT III).

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/how-to-fix-georgetowns-stunning-string-of-march-madness-disasters/2013/03/25/0f783926-959a-11e2-b6f0-a5150a247b6a_story_1.html

[Boston Red]

NCAA tournament’s first week gets highest ratings in 23 years.

http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/03/25/ncaa-tournaments-first-week-gets-highest-ratings-in-23-years/



I guess the Tournament can manage to survive even without Kentucky. And my Muskies.

[Mutaman]

Going to be strange rooting against a guy named Larkin. Hopefully Buzz is figuring out a way to stop him.

[Assembly Hall]

Going to be strange rooting against a guy named Larkin. Hopefully Buzz is figuring out a way to stop him.

You don't have to stop Larkin......you just have to shut down the other 4 guys on the floor.

[Revering4Blue]

Source: UCLA Boosters Want Mark Gottfried.


With Shaka Smart and Brad Stevens apparently out of the mix at UCLA, a source with direct knowledge of the situation told SNY.tv that the school’s boosters support the hiring of N.C. State head coach Mark Gottfried.

“Mark said he wants it and the boosters want Mark Gottfried,” the source told SNY.tv. “He’s got the support of the boosters.”

Smart is reportedly negotiating an extension at VCU, according to SI.com, while Stevens is said to want to avoid the limelight associated with Los Angeles.

“Shaka and Brad Stevens were their top choices,” the source said. “Neither of them wants it.

http://zagsblog.com/articles/source-ucla-boosters-want-mark-gottfried/

[Mutaman]

You don't have to stop Larkin......you just have to shut down the other 4 guys on the floor.

Good point. i suspect they'll try to do what they did to Rontei Clarke- wear him down. Barry must be really proud.
Here's an interesting article from a Warrior perspective on what Larkin does in the Miami offense:


http://painttouches.com/2013/03/26/how-shane-larkin-uses-the-pick-and-roll-effectively/

[Revering4Blue]

Davante Gardner may have an easier time against the Canes. Granted, the Canes have a lot of depth up front.


CORAL GABLES, Fla. -- Miami center Reggie Johnson did not accompany the Hurricanes to Washington on Tuesday evening in preparation for the team's Sweet 16 game, the school said in a statement.

Reggie Johnson didn't travel to Washington on Tuesday, but is expected to be able to play in the Final Four if Miami advances.

A person familiar with the situation told The Associated Press that Johnson had a surgical procedure to repair a minor meniscus issue Tuesday and will not play in this weekend's East Regional games.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/tournament/2013/story/_/id/9101681/reggie-johnson-miami-hurricanes-knee-surgery-according-report

[Assembly Hall]

Good point. i suspect they'll try to do what they did to Rontei Clarke- wear him down. Barry must be really proud.
Here's an interesting article from a Warrior perspective on what Larkin does in the Miami offense:


http://painttouches.com/2013/03/26/how-shane-larkin-uses-the-pick-and-roll-effectively/

As Dan Patrick would say....."You cant stop him, you can only hope to contain him."

I am sure the Canes are gonna feel the Warriors(I am old school, they will always be the Warriors to me) pressure. Miami is not used to the Big East/B1G style of basketball. I surmise the physicality that Marquette brings will wear on the kids from FLA. But I have been wrong before!!!!!!

[Assembly Hall]

Source: UCLA Boosters Want Mark Gottfried.



http://zagsblog.com/articles/source-ucla-boosters-want-mark-gottfried/

If I was a UCLA booster I would have been highly impressed with what Gottfried did this year with an under talented NC State team!!!!!! They were one of the biggest disappointments of the year as far as I am concerned.

[Revering4Blue]

Per Collegebasketballtalk.com

Here’s an interesting stat: Arizona’s Kaleb Tarczewski is the only top-10 recruit in this season’s freshman class that hasn’t been eliminated from March Madness. For the most part, the 2013 NCAA tournament has belonged to guys who were not highly sought after coming out of high school.

[Puffy]

If I was a UCLA booster I would have been highly impressed with what Gottfried did this year with an under talented NC State team!!!!!! They were one of the biggest disappointments of the year as far as I am concerned.

Yup - isn't that just what Howland had become. Get number 1 recruiting class in nation and proceed to underperform. NC State fans were all gaga for this year and then that team looked disinterested for half their games. Not a coach I would be too interested in at this time if I was UCLA because he is, apparently, Howland Lite

[improbus]

Per Collegebasketballtalk.com

Here’s an interesting stat: Arizona’s Kaleb Tarczewski is the only top-10 recruit in this season’s freshman class that hasn’t been eliminated from March Madness. For the most part, the 2013 NCAA tournament has belonged to guys who were not highly sought after coming out of high school.
This class was pretty weak overall. A decent indicator is the Nike Hoops Summit coming up. The US team (made up of mostly incoming freshman) lost for only the second time in the last 11 years. The other team that lost was the John Wall, Boogie Cousins team.

[Revering4Blue]

If I was a UCLA booster I would have been highly impressed with what Gottfried did this year with an under talented NC State team!!!!!! They were one of the biggest disappointments of the year as far as I am concerned.

AH,

There's another way to look at this.

N.C State didn't anoint themselves Preseason #1 in the ACC and Top 10 in the Nation. Just like Kentucky and Calipari didn't anoint themselves Preseason Top 5.

The Media did.

Judging by our own Redzone boards, UK fans knew that everything had to break right for UK to finish in the Top 5. And, After previously living 19 years in the Triangle, I can safely tell you that the majority of Wolfpack backers felt the same as UK fans about the possibility of unrealistic expectations.

I can also tell you that N.C State is a plum job in its own right. Frankly, when you can consider that USC now has a nice on-campus Arena, one can argue that UCLA is no longer a better job than USC.

In conclusion, I wouldn't be at all surprised if UCLA goes in another direction due to the cost of Gottfried's buyout (3.75 mil) and the fact that they are still paying off Howland. Throw in the fact that UCLA, unlike USC, is a public University and the cost may be too prohibitive for Gottfried.

A wildcard in the UCLA coaching search? Pacers assistant / former NBA player Brian Shaw, whom Kobe wanted to coach the Lakers.

[Revering4Blue]

Yup - isn't that just what Howland had become. Get number 1 recruiting class in nation and proceed to underperform. NC State fans were all gaga for this year and then that team looked disinterested for half their games. Not a coach I would be too interested in at this time if I was UCLA because he is, apparently, Howland Lite
Unlike College Football, Preseason Polls don't mean squat.

UCLA underperformed just how?

UCLA won the PAC 12 regular season title; the only one that really counts. Who really cares about asinine / Made for TV Conference tournaments that just cheapen the regular season.

In defense of Howland, is it his fault that Jordan Adams got hurt? UCLA may well still be playing if that injury hadn't occurred.

Even without Adams, it is a safe bet that the Bruins would still be playing if they had been properly placed in the West instead of Arizona - a team that the Bruins beat three times last year.

[Mutaman]

As Dan Patrick would say....."You cant stop him, you can only hope to contain him."

I am sure the Canes are gonna feel the Warriors(I am old school, they will always be the Warriors to me) pressure. Miami is not used to the Big East/B1G style of basketball. I surmise the physicality that Marquette brings will wear on the kids from FLA. But I have been wrong before!!!!!!

Good point. Which means how close the zebras call the game will be of major significance. On the other hand Marquette has been totally blown away at this point the last two years by North Carolina and Florida. Hopefully having been through that, the boys can now handle the move up to prime time. And the guys from Miami have not experienced that before.

Then again, Marquette can't shoot and I understand Miami really can, so that might outweigh everything. It usually does.

[WVRed]

AH,

There's another way to look at this.

N.C State didn't anoint themselves Preseason #1 in the ACC and Top 10 in the Nation. Just like Kentucky and Calipari didn't anoint themselves Preseason Top 5.

The Media did.

Judging by our own Redzone boards, UK fans knew that everything had to break right for UK to finish in the Top 5. And, After previously living 19 years in the Triangle, I can safely tell you that the majority of Wolfpack backers felt the same as UK fans about the possibility of unrealistic expectations.

I can also tell you that N.C State is a plum job in its own right. Frankly, when you can consider that USC now has a nice on-campus Arena, one can argue that UCLA is no longer a better job than USC.

In conclusion, I wouldn't be at all surprised if UCLA goes in another direction due to the cost of Gottfried's buyout (3.75 mil) and the fact that they are still paying off Howland. Throw in the fact that UCLA, unlike USC, is a public University and the cost may be too prohibitive for Gottfried.

A wildcard in the UCLA coaching search? Pacers assistant / former NBA player Brian Shaw, whom Kobe wanted to coach the Lakers.

Couldn't have put it better, although Gottfried is a former UCLA assistant and that is why he is being linked I believe. Still, the guy can recruit, just can't do jack with the players he recruits.

One name I'll throw out that would be a home run hire I have heard linked is Billy Donovan. He runs an up-tempo style, has success recruiting kids to warmer climate areas, and I think would be able to build a quick contender in the Pac-12. Not to mention he is used to being at a program that is second fiddle (At Florida its football, in LA it's the Lakers).

Problem is, he turned down Kentucky, a similar job (albeit without the west coast draw) twice and the NBA once. He and his wife are happy in Florida, but I think he could add to his championships by moving to Westwood.

If that happened, Shaka Smart to Florida would be inevitable.

[dabvu2498]

If that happened, Shaka Smart to Florida would be inevitable.

Negative. Shaka's going to make his own legacy, not borrow someone else's.

http://m.usatoday.com/article/news/2026561

[Revering4Blue]

Couldn't have put it better, although Gottfried is a former UCLA assistant and that is why he is being linked I believe. Still, the guy can recruit, just can't do jack with the players he recruits.

One name I'll throw out that would be a home run hire I have heard linked is Billy Donovan. He runs an up-tempo style, has success recruiting kids to warmer climate areas, and I think would be able to build a quick contender in the Pac-12. Not to mention he is used to being at a program that is second fiddle (At Florida its football, in LA it's the Lakers).

Problem is, he turned down Kentucky, a similar job (albeit without the west coast draw) twice and the NBA once. He and his wife are happy in Florida, but I think he could add to his championships by moving to Westwood.

If that happened, Shaka Smart to Florida would be inevitable.

In defense of Gottfried, while he's not, IMHO, an improvement over Howland, he did reach the Elite 8 at Alabama in '04, losing to eventual champion UConn. And the majority of the N.C State players under his brief tenure were recruited by Sidney Lowe - and we all know how well Lowe coached those kids.

As for Donovan, I'm as skeptical as you are about him possibly leaving Florida, but it makes sense, given the reasons that you outlined.

Should Donovan leave for Westwood, the Gators should be able to land a top-flight coach, even with Smart apparently out of the picture. Thanks to Donovan, Florida is now viewed as a destination job.

It's kind of funny to think that Lon Kruger - two years removed from taking the Gators to the Final Four - left Florida for Illinois in '96. That wouldn't happen today.

[Revering4Blue]

Mark Gottfried ended his Twitter silence Wednesday night to reassure NC State fans that he isn't planning on going anywhere. So I think we can relax now. I mean you never know with these things, but smoke 'em if you got 'em.

I am committed to being at @ncstate for a long time Still as dedicated to rebuilding the program as I was 2 yrs ago when I arrived
— Mark Gottfried (@Mark_Gottfried) March 27, 2013

http://www.backingthepack.com/2013/3/27/4155236/mark-gottfried-ucla-coaching-rumors

[improbus]

I love the energy of the tournament. I love the drama (even if I don't always love the quality of basketball). But, I despise the cliches. I am so tired of the following words/phrases.
1) Cinderella: I'm tired of the term and its use. If double digit seeds make the Regional Semifinals every year, can we really be that surprised?
2) Sweet Sixteen/Elite Eight: I'm okay with the Final Four (although I prefer Semifinals), but the other two have always bothered me. I understand why we use them (no one would quickly recognize the Regional Semifinals), but that doesn't mean I have to like them.
3) Bubble, Big Dance, even March Madness.

[Hoosier Red]

In defense of Gottfried, while he's not, IMHO, an improvement over Howland, he did reach the Elite 8 at Alabama in '04, losing to eventual champion UConn. And the majority of the N.C State players under his brief tenure were recruited by Sidney Lowe - and we all know how well Lowe coached those kids.


Is anyone else bothered by the fact that Gottfried and Jeff Brantley have never been seen in the same room at the same time. https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRpBnOie6qtRe18aWR2yySW4P7q2YMIL pRFJ84Z9onFf91ux_Yy
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTlJLPbLVT5YyLrWnvBlODyRwW27K8CD 0AMnnCdbpLjmFAdPAT85A

[Boston Red]

Let's go Shockers!

Again.

[Mutaman]

Miami playing like Marquette played in the sweet 16 the last two years. I suspect we'll see a big second half charge.

[Mutaman]

Warriors played like they had been there before, Miami played like they hadn't. Congratulations to Buzz and the boys.

[texasdave]

I love the energy of the tournament. I love the drama (even if I don't always love the quality of basketball). But, I despise the cliches. I am so tired of the following words/phrases.
1) Cinderella: I'm tired of the term and its use. If double digit seeds make the Regional Semifinals every year, can we really be that surprised?
2) Sweet Sixteen/Elite Eight: I'm okay with the Final Four (although I prefer Semifinals), but the other two have always bothered me. I understand why we use them (no one would quickly recognize the Regional Semifinals), but that doesn't mean I have to like them.
3) Bubble, Big Dance, even March Madness.

Can you make room for "The Road to the Final Four" or "The Road to Whichever City is Hosting The Final Four"?

[WMR]

1987 lives for another year...

Will there be another batch of Sweet 16 rings issued? ;)

Crean with the blow by which has become the norm for him when his team takes a loss.

[LoganBuck]

1987 lives for another year...

Will there be another batch of Sweet 16 rings issued? ;)

Crean with the blow by which has become the norm for him when his team takes a loss.

They cut the nets down afterward.

[improbus]

Can you make room for "The Road to the Final Four" or "The Road to Whichever City is Hosting The Final Four"?
What about Bracketology?

[cumberlandreds]

Slowly but surely the teams I dislike the most are losing. First was Gtown,then UNC and now IU. If UL and Duke would lose tonight it would complete the circle.
I didn't stay up to watch IU's game but did Crean yell at any of Syracuse assistant coaches after the game last night? Just wondering.

[bucksfan2]

1987 lives for another year...

Will there be another batch of Sweet 16 rings issued? ;)

Crean with the blow by which has become the norm for him when his team takes a loss.

Na they will hand a #1 seed special banner and go back to Assembly Hall and cut down the nets.

IU got hit in the mouth early and seemed shocked and really didn't know how to deal with the zone. In looking back at this IU team they probably had the most talent on the court but didn't mesh as the season went along. They had too many guys who wanted to be stars and not enough guys who were willing to play a roll. IU was pretty much the same team that started the season as ended the season, a very talented team, but a flawed one.

[cumberlandreds]

I hear these are on sale at the IU campus bookstore this morning.

http://ksr.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/indiana-shirt.jpg

[SunDeck]

Na they will hand a #1 seed special banner and go back to Assembly Hall and cut down the nets.

IU got hit in the mouth early and seemed shocked and really didn't know how to deal with the zone. In looking back at this IU team they probably had the most talent on the court but didn't mesh as the season went along. They had too many guys who wanted to be stars and not enough guys who were willing to play a roll. IU was pretty much the same team that started the season as ended the season, a very talented team, but a flawed one.

Agreed about getting hit in the mouth early; they looked like they were lost. However, this group has seemed like they have been pretty willing to do what was asked, but they just never did really develop the resiliency needed to beat an excellent defensive team. To me, it looked like they just didn't have a plan against a well executed, workman-like, ugly, grinding, zone defense, which means either the coaching is not there or the kids can't figure out what the coaches want them to do. All year, they didn't seem to have much pluck if the other team forced them out of their comfort zone.

[Boston Red]

I would imagine that Florida Gulf Coast will attract a large national audience tonight given all the attention they have received, their story and their style of play. I'm afraid that audience is going to be disappointed, though. I think they'll come back to earth tonight.

Would love to be wrong, though!

[WMR]

http://i1.wp.com/gifsection.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/jim-tom-handshake.gif?resize=500%2C281

What's shorter, a handshake from Tommy Crean or an "encounter" with Pitino at Porcini's? :D

[WMR]

http://www.terezowens.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/handshake.gif

[WMR]

This one is funny... He's in blow by mode but Matta grabs him and holds on for dear life. :lol:

http://i.imgur.com/hGyxweE.gif

[Hoosier Red]

1987 lives for another year...

Will there be another batch of Sweet 16 rings issued? ;)

Crean with the blow by which has become the norm for him when his team takes a loss.

I'm curious about this garnering so much attention. What's the average speed for a coach to shake hands with the opposing coach? After so much was made of it, it looked like Crean and Ryan were going to make out after Wisconsin beat IU in the B1G Tourney.

[gilpdawg]

I'm curious about this garnering so much attention. What's the average speed for a coach to shake hands with the opposing coach? After so much was made of it, it looked like Crean and Ryan were going to make out after Wisconsin beat IU in the B1G Tourney.

The only person who cares is WMR, who needs to worry about his team and stop being obsessed with ours.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[dabvu2498]

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/552087_4742674688203_1265646735_n.jpg

[traderumor]

I'm curious about this garnering so much attention. What's the average speed for a coach to shake hands with the opposing coach? After so much was made of it, it looked like Crean and Ryan were going to make out after Wisconsin beat IU in the B1G Tourney.
I would have to time the handshake-pleasantries after a win vs. the handshake-no pleasantries after the loss to determine. If the handshake time is the same for wins and losses, than maybe he's just a germophobe. If the handshake time is short and curt after losses only, then its a sign of being a sore loser. I think the list is long enough of Crean's annoying personality and character traits that the handshake issue can probably be in the second ten, though. ;)

[Wonderful Monds]

We've got some hilarious jokes the past couple pages. I don't think anyone has mentioned the most hilarious one yet, the fact that the biggest reason Kentucky fans have had to celebrate all season is Indiana's elimination from the tournament.

Ha!

[Hoosier Red]

I would have to time the handshake-pleasantries after a win vs. the handshake-no pleasantries after the loss to determine. If the handshake time is the same for wins and losses, than maybe he's just a germophobe. If the handshake time is short and curt after losses only, then its a sign of being a sore loser. I think the list is long enough of Crean's annoying personality and character traits that the handshake issue can probably be in the second ten, though. ;)

On that, you and I agree. :)

[WMR]

The only person who cares is WMR, who needs to worry about his team and stop being obsessed with ours.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

WMR is the only one who cares and is the only one talking about this?

Really?

That's what you're going with? :lol:

[WMR]

We've got some hilarious jokes the past couple pages. I don't think anyone has mentioned the most hilarious one yet, the fact that the biggest reason Kentucky fans have had to celebrate all season is Indiana's elimination from the tournament.

Ha!

2012 vs. 1987 is the funniest though, by far. :D

[WMR]

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/552087_4742674688203_1265646735_n.jpg

I'm glad Cal is finding time to tip a few brews between signing the greatest recruiting class in the history of collegiate athletics. :D

[Boston Red]

2012 vs. 1987 is the funniest though, by far. :D

If you're talking about the spread between years UK and UofL last beat Florida in football, I think you're off by one year on each side.

[Razor Shines]

I would have to time the handshake-pleasantries after a win vs. the handshake-no pleasantries after the loss to determine. If the handshake time is the same for wins and losses, than maybe he's just a germophobe. If the handshake time is short and curt after losses only, then its a sign of being a sore loser. I think the list is long enough of Crean's annoying personality and character traits that the handshake issue can probably be in the second ten, though. ;)

They're ALL sore losers. Some just hide it better. I've said it before: As a Colts fan I've never jumped on the Pats for quick handshakes or being sore losers, so I really don't care if Tom Crean gives a quick post game handshake. It's a pretty stupid thing to make into a big deal but I've come to expect that from some. Just like my life wouldn't really be any better if IU had won the tournament last year as apposed to not winning since 1987, but for some it's a big part of their lives. That's another way to go.

[WMR]

If you're talking about the spread between years UK and UofL last beat Florida in football, I think you're off by one year on each side.

Ouch you really got me? :lol:

Football smack from the liddle bros in a march madness thread... When liddle bro is still alive... :laugh:

[Razor Shines]

I'm just messing with you, WMR, you know I yelled at my kids and locked my wife in the bathroom for three hours because she wasn't sitting the right spot during the game.

[WMR]

I'm just messing with you, WMR, you know I yelled at my kids and locked my wife in the bathroom for three hours because she wasn't sitting the right spot during the game.

You should know by now you don't need to say it. :D

I'm sure I'll hear it next season from everyone who dislikes UK (everyone besides UK fans :lol: ) if UK doesn't win it all with the expectations they're going to have heaped on their shoulders.

On a serious note, as I said in another thread, I honestly believe cutting down those nets was a mistake by Crean. It fostered a false sense of accomplishment when there was still tons of work left to do.

[Hoosier Red]

On a serious note, as I said in another thread, I honestly believe cutting down those nets was a mistake by Crean. It fostered a false sense of accomplishment when there was still tons of work left to do.

You may be right. It's easy to guess the psychological impact of actions with very little data to corroborate both the input and output. (Fun too!)

This didn't really strike me as a team too wrapped up in its own accomplishments, if anything, the guys seemed to be harder on themselves than warranted. With that in mind, a ceremony recognizing that no matter what they could look back on the season as a success might have allowed them to play a little more freely. Obviously that didn't happen, or if it did, the effects didn't last very long.

[Boston Red]

Ouch you really got me? :lol:

Football smack from the liddle bros in a march madness thread... When liddle bro is still alive... :laugh:

It's about as relevant as talking about 2012 and 1987 in a thread clearly labeled 2013.

You must love your little brother, though, because you talk about him on this board more than anyone for sure. I can't wait for the flurry of posts you have ready should Louisville manage to lose at some point this March.

[WMR]

It's about as relevant as talking about 2012 and 1987 in a thread clearly labeled 2013.

You must love your little brother, though, because you talk about him on this board more than anyone for sure. I can't wait for the flurry of posts you have ready should Louisville manage to lose at some point this March.

:beerme:

Here's hoping! :lol:

I don't know though, you guys got a gift wrapped path to the elite 8 and UL is looking pretty damn good right now.

[WMR]

You may be right. It's easy to guess the psychological impact of actions with very little data to corroborate both the input and output. (Fun too!)

This didn't really strike me as a team too wrapped up in its own accomplishments, if anything, the guys seemed to be harder on themselves than warranted. With that in mind, a ceremony recognizing that no matter what they could look back on the season as a success might have allowed them to play a little more freely. Obviously that didn't happen, or if it did, the effects didn't last very long.

Do you think Crean adequately prepared his team for the Cuse zone and they didn't perform how he wished or was the prep inadequate or was the team just not able to handle it?

Did IU peak too soon? They honestly didn't look like the same team I saw in January/early Feb.

Probably the most important question at this point: are zeller and dipo coming back?

[bucksfan2]

Do you think Crean adequately prepared his team for the Cuse zone and they didn't perform how he wished or was the prep inadequate or was the team just not able to handle it?

Did IU peak too soon? They honestly didn't look like the same team I saw in January/early Feb.

Probably the most important question at this point: are zeller and dipo coming back?

I don't think Crean adequately prepared his team. I actually think it was a pretty poor job of coaching on his behalf. You would think that Watford would have been able to successfully play right around the foul line with Oladipo and another shooter on the wing and Zeller down low.

I think IU may have peaked earlier than that. The thing I saw was IU has the most talent of any team in the country. I think for the most part they stayed status quo throughout the season. When the book came out on how to best them, be more physical, slow the game down, IU really didn't adapt.

I think Zeller and Oladipo are gone.

[dabvu2498]

I'm glad Cal is finding time to tip a few brews between signing the greatest recruiting class in the history of collegiate athletics. :D

Yeah. Heaven forbid if he had to do game prep or run practice right now.

[Hoosier Red]

Do you think Crean adequately prepared his team for the Cuse zone and they didn't perform how he wished or was the prep inadequate or was the team just not able to handle it?

Did IU peak too soon? They honestly didn't look like the same team I saw in January/early Feb.

Probably the most important question at this point: are zeller and dipo coming back?

I think the preparation angle is slightly overblown and it misses the weakness I do think Crean shows on occasion. From an X & O standpoint, they knew what they had to do. The first few possessions they got to the back of the zone and had three decent looks. (None of which went down, and they were only 3-6 on the Free Throws, usually a strength.)
But after a turnover or two, the team definitely got rattled. All of a sudden even when they'd find an opening in the zone, they didn't trust what they were seeing and would hesitate.
Against any defense, if you hesitate, you're in trouble. If you hesitate against that zone, you're dead.

Where Crean failed wasn't in preparing the team, but in keeping them calm and focused during that first 10 minutes.

As for whether they peaked too soon, the data is noisy. Any team would look like it had "peaked" when it's schedule was as backloaded as Indiana's. I think peaking at the right time is a lot like clutch hitting, it's very difficult to measure and there are going to be infinitely more cases of false positives and false negatives used as evidence. In my mind, the safer bet is to take the best team you possibly can, play as well as you can any particular night, and hope for the best.

The last question is the easiest to answer. Hell no. They're not coming back, nor should they. Zeller may not be ready for the NBA(I submit this has been overblown) but he's not going to prove anything next year other than he wasted a year where he could be making a couple of million dollars.

[Razor Shines]

On a serious note, as I said in another thread, I honestly believe cutting down those nets was a mistake by Crean. It fostered a false sense of accomplishment when there was still tons of work left to do.

I don't disagree. I don't know what effect that had on the team but it's certainly possible it wasn't good.

On a side note to your serious note. I meant to post in this thread last night but my thunder has been slightly stolen:

Post game, Washington, DC. Indiana locker room. Team sits quietly in sorrow as it awaits the arrival of its coach, Tom Cream. Crean bursts in with hands above his head in triumph shouting "Back to back Sweet Sixteeeeeeens!!!"