This team is worse than last year.

[reds700]

Only two players (Choo and Votto) that know how to hit. The rest are just hackers. And defense is worse than last year.

[Wonderful Monds]

Check back with us tomorrow when will be World Series contenders again.

[reds700]

Never thought we have been World Series contenders. We are in the same boat as the Braves. Will have a great regular season record, but will struggle to hit come playoff time. Don't have enough players willing to put together a decent at bat.

But when you play guys like Heisey instead of X. Paul you get what you get.

[EMAW]

5 and 4 after playing three of the toughest series on schedule
Will take that

[reds700]

Maybe we can add Mes to that list of players that will work a count, but still too early to officially add him.

And after he takes 4 straight balls to get the walk, the next two batters get out on the first pitch. Westbrook was wild during his first start and could have potentially walked a ton of batters today. But we didn't let him.

[tomnuetten]

Never thought we have been World Series contenders. We are in the same boat as the Braves. Will have a great regular season record, but will struggle to hit come playoff time. Don't have enough players willing to put together a decent at bat.

But when you play guys like Heisey instead of X. Paul you get what you get.

I don´t like to lose against the cardinals (I hate it), but pls don´t overreact...

we have some player who swing and miss a lot and I would wish that they would start to make the pitcher work but we have a pretty good line up though.

[coachpipe]

too soon

[tomnuetten]

Maybe we can add Mes to that list of players that will work a count, but still too early to officially add him.



Mes?! did you watched him last year? he was jay bruce during a cold streak...

hanigan can work the count and put the ball in play (he lacks power of course)

[mgbrown66]

I hope the OP isn't a football fan. It would stink to have to wait a week to get this taste out of our mouths.

The Reds play terribly in St Louis. It is what it is.

[reds700]

Mes?! did you watched him last year? he was jay bruce during a cold streak...

hanigan can work the count and put the ball in play (he lacks power of course)

Players change from year to year. If you noticed I said it was too early to add him, but he did have 2 walks today and we have only seen him in 2 games. Our biggest deficiency is inability to make pitchers work. We see too many less than 10 pitch innings.

[Steve4192]

Only two players (Choo and Votto) that know how to hit. The rest are just hackers. And defense is worse than last year.

How many players knew how to hit last year?

[texasdave]

Only two players (Choo and Votto) that know how to hit. The rest are just hackers. And defense is worse than last year.

You must not have read the thread in ORG about making starters work. No need to worry. Dusty is gonna coach our boys up in that regard.

[reds700]

How many players knew how to hit last year?

Not many. That's why we lost 3 series clinching games at home in one of biggest choke jobs of all time. Plenty of talent on this team, just not enough committment to actually becoming big time hitters.

[holster10]

Really...worse? Where is the statistical analysis/ matrix to prove it? Didn't this team start 5-8 or something like that last year?

[marcshoe]

Shouldn't the thread title read "last week" instead of "last year"?

[CardsFanBob]

Well, I think you'll definitely miss Ludwick's bat. I believe he has a chance of coming back... supposedly, but with shoulder surgery, I would consider him done. Just look at your previous third baseman and former Cardinal Scott Rolen. When he started having shoulder issues, his power was absolutely gone... and he was never the same player again.

IMO, unless someone really grabs that position and takes it over, you're going to need a LF by the trade deadline.

Still, you'll be in the race for the division until the end. Though, it will be interesting to see how it impacts the entire NL Central without having the Astros.

[bmwreds31]

lol i expected to see some worrysome threads but cmon MAN.

Way too soon. Its hard to even discuss its so soon.

[R_Webb18]

If your always negative / don't expect them to win why do you even watch/go to the games. Why would you care? I've never understood this.

[Hometown Crew]

Well, I think you'll definitely miss Ludwick's bat. I believe he has a chance of coming back... supposedly, but with shoulder surgery, I would consider him done. Just look at your previous third baseman and former Cardinal Scott Rolen. When he started having shoulder issues, his power was absolutely gone... and he was never the same player again.

IMO, unless someone really grabs that position and takes it over, you're going to need a LF by the trade deadline.

Still, you'll be in the race for the division until the end. Though, it will be interesting to see how it impacts the entire NL Central without having the Astros.

We already have our trade deadline leftfielder. He's playing centerfield. We will need a trade deadline centerfielder. I'm not implying anything negative to Choo. He is a GREAT pick-up & I hope he is with the Reds for years to come. He adds an element that this team needs. Is the outfield of the Reds future, Choo, Hamilton & Bruce?

[KC2135]

5 and 4 after playing three of the toughest series on schedule
Will take that

everyone just stop and breathe

[LexRedsFan]

Pretty sure we had an almost identical record at this point last year.

[Krawhitham]

Only two players (Choo and Votto) that know how to hit. The rest are just hackers. And defense is worse than last year.

Your concern is noted

[Falcon7]

Your concern is noted

Yea, that 20 MILLION+ per year man is awesome, he already has 2 rbi's in only 11 games! On pace for 29 rbi's and 0 hr's!
Lets see, last year when he came back in 32 games he had 0 hr's and 7 rbi's.

[RedTeamGo!]

Yea, that 20 MILLION+ per year man is awesome, he already has 2 rbi's in only 11 games! On pace for 29 rbi's and 0 hr's!
Lets see, last year when he came back in 32 games he had 0 hr's and 7 rbi's.

Wow.

You're right - Joey Votto is terrible! He needs to start swinging at pitches outside of the strike zone! He walks too much! Get a grip.

[Joesh]

No ****, this team is terrible

[Wonderful Monds]

No ****, this team is terrible

Seems to be a typo in your post, I think you meant to say "this thread is terrible."

[Mastodon]

Well, I think Brandon Phillips is doing his job of punishing teams for just putting Votto on base instead of pitching to him. Votto may not be hitting power but he is coming home quite a bit because of Phillips and Frazier and to a lesser extent Bruce. Teams sooner or later are going to have to pitch to him, he's is getting on base in front of some hitters who are capable of bringing him home.

[Ron Gant]

You're never as bad as you think you are and you're never as good as you think you are. This adage holds especially true at this point during the season. Losing two of three to the Cards hurt and being swept by the Buccos really hurt. But at the end of the day this ball club, in my opinion, is the most talented team in this division and will rack up the wins behind power hitting, excellent defense and very good pitching. You cannot let these last six games become a legitimate sample size in regards to each of those three facets. Just like you couldn't use the first six games of this season as a big enough sample size (even though we would all like to).

5-7 sucks, I know. But keep it context. There are still a whopping 150 games left to be played and we face both the Cardinals and Pirates 16 more times each. I am more than confident this team will win and win big. And when all is said and done 2013 will be a season that will be talked about for a long time around here for all the right reasons. Just my two cents.

[Mastodon]

You're never as bad as you think you are and you're never as good as you think you are. This adage holds especially true at this point during the season. Losing two of three to the Cards hurt and being swept by the Buccos really hurt. But at the end of the day this ball club, in my opinion, is the most talented team in this division and will rack up the wins behind power hitting, excellent defense and very good pitching. You cannot let these last six games become a legitimate sample size in regards to each of those three facets. Just like you couldn't use the first six games of this season as a big enough sample size (even though we would all like to).

5-7 sucks, I know. But keep it context. There are still a whopping 150 games left to be played and we face both the Cardinals and Pirates 16 more times each. I am more than confident this team will win and win big. And when all is said and done 2013 will be a season that will be talked about for a long time around here for all the right reasons. Just my two cents.

True. I looked up last season's schedule and they were actually 4-8 through 12 games. I didn't realize that. All it takes is to not fall too far behind and have a solid month like they did last year when Votto went out to separate themselves from the pack.

[DWS1125]

dusty has to let Mes play more often...Hannigan is struggling and need a few days off in a row, to relax. This team will be fine.

[Krawhitham]

Yea, that 20 MILLION+ per year man is awesome, he already has 2 rbi's in only 11 games! On pace for 29 rbi's and 0 hr's!
Lets see, last year when he came back in 32 games he had 0 hr's and 7 rbi's.

Through 12 games last season
.293 AVG
.873 OPS
4 extra base hits
1 HR


Through 12 games his season
.289 AVG
.990 OPS
3 extra base hits
1 HR

Yep the world sure is ending

[BigJohn]

True. I looked up last season's schedule and they were actually 4-8 through 12 games. I didn't realize that. All it takes is to not fall too far behind and have a solid month like they did last year when Votto went out to separate themselves from the pack.

Hanagan gets a lot of credit for calling the game and being a great receiver of the baseball. I mean, really?
:laugh:

[NebraskaRed]

Through 12 games last season
.293 AVG
.873 OPS
4 extra base hits
1 HR


Through 12 games his season
.289 AVG
.990 OPS
3 extra base hits
1 HR

Yep the world sure is ending

yeah, but he's down one extra base hit from last year. Clearly this means that Votto needs to be sent down to AAA, Chapman gets put on first base, and then the Reds forfeit their season and try again next year.

[RedTeamGo!]

The team has been dreadful to watch the past 5 games and it is far too early to freak out, but in my opinion there are reasons to be worried.

"The Reds at this point of the season had a worse record and ended up with 97 wins" is a statement that I keep hearing. Last year the Reds also won 11 games in a row, which played a major role in the last couple months of the season. Before the Reds went on their winning streak they were in a dogfight with the Cards and Pirates and this streak really made the season. After the streak the Reds played with a lot of confidence the rest of the way which is very difficult to duplicate.

161 games started last year were by the top 5 starters in the organization. Not only is the chance of repeating that incredible feat already gone the injured pitcher is the ace of the staff. Cingrani is mowing down AAA hitters at an incredible clip, but let's be honest, he is most likely going to get owned at the major league level.

I know it is early but I truly think the way the team bounces back from this terrible road trip is going to give us a good indication of what to expect from this team moving forward. in 2010 and 2012 when the Reds were knocked down they almost always immediately got back up and confidently went back to work.

I understand stats can make what I am saying make me look foolish. As I am typing this I am thinking of small sample sizes and good players under performing based off of career averages but I just cannot shake this bad feeling I have about this season. Something just does not feel right. I also have a feeling another major player is going to go down due to injury.

[LexRedsFan]

I understand stats can make what I am saying make me look foolish. As I am typing this I am thinking of small sample sizes and good players under performing based off of career averages but I just cannot shake this bad feeling I have about this season. Something just does not feel right. I also have a feeling another major player is going to go down due to injury.

You're posting your gut feelings and opinions. Nothing wrong with that. I think all of us at the very least in the back of our mind have this feeling.

I just keep cheering myself by thinking that the next three series SHOULD be easier, in Philly/Miami/Chicago. If we struggle during these three I'll actually be concerned.

[Mastodon]

Hanagan gets a lot of credit for calling the game and being a great receiver of the baseball. I mean, really?
:laugh:

No idea how this is related to my post but ok?

[reds700]

Lose to Marlins with chance at 1st place? Need to win the next two.

[Jamz]

Lost to the Marlins. Season is over.

[Old school 1983]

The more I think about this current reds season, the less I am concerned that'll it will be worse than last year. Sure, I think this team could use some tweaks and improvements, but very few teams are complete this time of year. Also looking back at the wins and losses leaves me with little concern. The team has not played an inirdinate amount of games against weak opponents to lead to wins. The reds arent winning games that they have no business winning either. Doing that is a sign of a team playing over their heads and is a cause for concern. Looking at the majority of the losses doesnt leave me unsettled either. Our relief pitching issues will even out. In our losses Hoover has been over worked, broxton has come in rusty, and last night chapman gave up an improbable homer. I like Hoover, but once Marshall returns and now that Ondrusek has returned, he will not be used as frequently. So, his ineffectiveness due to overuse will be less of an issue. Broxton was hammered in Pittsburgh because he wasn't used for a week and was rusty. Hopefully dusty learns from this and doesn't allow that to happen again. Against the marlins, or most opponents for that matter, ill take my chances with chapman. He's human. Crap happens. As far as the offense goes, votto will come around, hopefully mez sees more time. So more or less, to be .5 games out of first at this point, and honestly most of the losses occurring because of things that will be, or have been corrected, or just a luck on the other teams part, while the wins the reds get have little to do with luck, leaves me with little issue for concern. This team will hit its stride, and when they do, look out.

[SirFelixCat]

Reading this thread...


Oof. :no:

[R3DL3GS]

This team is definitely better than last year. They got off to as slow start as well last year. The pitching thus far this year has been above average. The rotation is pitching well with the exception of a few games. Choo is an excellent pickup. I really hope the Reds are able to keep him beyond this season. We already knew he was comfortable at GABP before he ever put on a Reds uniform. I dreaded every at bat he had when the Reds played the Indians. He seemed to always come up big and he has disappointed thus far. The one thing I will say is that the Reds seem to go through mini slumps way to much. I know Jacoby is supposedly one of the best but in my opinion he isnt worth the money. Dusty is also supposed to be a hitting guru. I just wish the lineup could be more consistent.

[Old school 1983]

I just wish the lineup could be more consistent.

I feel you there. The issue isnt getting on base. It's driving in runs and avoiding the strikeout. Pete Rose described Tony Perez as getting dollar signs in his eyes when he saw men on base. I'd love for the Reds to be able to find a player that does the same thing when he sees men on base. Honestly aside from Phillips here lately no one seems to have that attitude.

[New York Red]

:eek:

[Goose]

Reds are looking good, have some patience. The only thing I am worried about is injuries, we've had our share already. Would like someone to step up in LF, but am happy with our other spots.

[RedTeamGo!]

I think a Paul/Robinson platoon will be ok in left for the time being. I would love to never see Heisey in a reds uni again, but that will obviously not happen.

[reds700]

Lose at home to Cubs while Cardinals win at Nationals. Those are the swings that win a division. Well done Cardinals.

[reds700]

Lose at home to Cubs while Cardinals win at Nationals. Those are the swings that win a division. Well done Cardinals.

I am the master of the jinx.

[New York Red]

The thread that keeps on giving.

[holster10]

i am convinced the originator of this thread is employed by or affiliated with colin cowherd.

[reds700]

As I previously stated. This team is garbage at offense.

[AtomicDumpling]

As I previously stated. This team is garbage at offense.

The Reds are 3rd in the major leagues in scoring. If you think the Reds' offense is garbage how do you feel about the 27 teams that have scored fewer runs?

[Joesh]

The Reds are 3rd in the major leagues in scoring. If you think the Reds' offense is garbage how do you feel about the 27 teams that have scored fewer runs?

How many teams have more one run or less games than the Reds?

[reds700]

The Reds are 3rd in the major leagues in scoring. If you think the Reds' offense is garbage how do you feel about the 27 teams that have scored fewer runs?

That is skewed by a couple high run games. I am pretty sure we lead the league in games scoring under 2 runs. This offense needs to put up 5 runs a game. The trend of scoring 15 one game followed by 4 straight of 2 runs or less doesn't cut it. They better figure it out quickly bc they are staring at being 4 games back going into St. Louis.

[AtomicDumpling]

That is skewed by a couple high run games. I am pretty sure we lead the league in games scoring under 2 runs. This offense needs to put up 5 runs a game. The trend of scoring 15 one game followed by 4 straight of 2 runs or less doesn't cut it. They better figure it out quickly bc they are staring at being 4 games back going into St. Louis.

It is just normal statistical variation. Kind of ridiculous to complain about hitting for a team that is at the top of the league in scoring. Almost any other team in the league would love to score as well as the Reds have. If you want to vent after a loss find a rational target.

[reds700]

It is just normal statistical variation. Kind of ridiculous to complain about hitting for a team that is at the top of the league in scoring. Almost any other team in the league would love to score as well as the Reds have. If you want to vent after a loss find a rational target.

I really don't think it's normal for the top scoring team to also lead in games where they score 2 or less. That is probably rare. Bottom line is we are pretty far below the Cards as a team right now. Their starting pitching is as good or better and their offense is a good bit better. They seem to consistently put up 5 or 6 a game. Unless we start doing that we are in trouble. Lets hope the pirates knock them off today.

[Mastodon]

If you eliminate the 4 10+ run games they're at the absolute bottom of the league in scoring average barely 2 runs a game. Too much pressure on the pitching to be almost perfect. The fact that Homer Bailey took a lose vs the Nats the other day after pitching the way he did is a crime.

[Old school 1983]

The reds need to perform better against above average pitching. Period. I'm not saying they need to light it up for ten runs. That's not realistic. But put together good at bats. Manufacture runs. And keep the pressure on.

[Goose1701]

In regards to the offense Reds are(NL):

2nd in runs scored
1st in BB%
9th in ISO
Have a .293 BABIP
Have a 98 wRC+
4th in offensive WAR

So at worst, it's a league average offense. And that's with Ludwick out, and Bruce way underperforming.

[reds700]

Cardinals have worst pen in baseball and we aren't patient enough to get to them. This offense is very bad.

[Vottomatic]

Blow it up! Blow it up!!!

Just kidding. :D

[Old school 1983]

Blow it up! Blow it up!!!

Just kidding. :D

Hahaha. I know you're kidding. The softer schedule in may ought to help. While it doesn't need blown up there are definite areas of concern. Choos D in center is suspect but my major concerns are the one dimensional, impatient, undisciplined nature of the offense and the massive hole in the 2 spot of the order and while he's doing a great job Phillips at cleanup. The two spot is dead. It's not even getting runners over let alone getting hits. And while Phillips is doing a great job, I really don't think pitchers see him as enough of a threat to give votto something to hit. Votto is getting hits off of pitchers pitches. I think it's frustrating him more now too and he's trying to be over aggressive and hit stuff he shouldn't be swinging at. Lets hope the pitching can carry us against good teams and the offense can beat up on the cupcakes until the deadline and Walt can make a deal to plug the holes.

[joshua]

I think this team is better than last year, but the offense is plain awful. How many quality starts have the Reds lost this year?

[Old school 1983]

I think this team is better than last year, but the offense is plain awful. How many quality starts have the Reds lost this year?

I know. It's getting crazy. You never want to give up quality pitching for offense but I think it may be time that the reds start considering it especially if cingrani continues his success.

[reds700]

Hahaha. I know you're kidding. The softer schedule in may ought to help. While it doesn't need blown up there are definite areas of concern. Choos D in center is suspect but my major concerns are the one dimensional, impatient, undisciplined nature of the offense and the massive hole in the 2 spot of the order and while he's doing a great job Phillips at cleanup. The two spot is dead. It's not even getting runners over let alone getting hits. And while Phillips is doing a great job, I really don't think pitchers see him as enough of a threat to give votto something to hit. Votto is getting hits off of pitchers pitches. I think it's frustrating him more now too and he's trying to be over aggressive and hit stuff he shouldn't be swinging at. Lets hope the pitching can carry us against good teams and the offense can beat up on the cupcakes until the deadline and Walt can make a deal to plug the holes.

Is there really am issue at the 2 spot or is the bigger issue the lack of hitting at the 2, 5, 6, 7, and 8 spots? We thought a lead off guy would fix the problems but it hasn't. It is a team issue, not one spot in the order.

[Old school 1983]

Is there really am issue at the 2 spot or is the bigger issue the lack of hitting at the 2, 5, 6, 7, and 8 spots? We thought a lead off guy would fix the problems but it hasn't. It is a team issue, not one spot in the order.

The two spot really isn't what is broken. It's just the obvious result of it. No one to protect votto bc ludwick went down. The reds need to fix the four spot that'd automatically fix the two. As far as 5 through 8 I'd make my first criteria for replacement in the lineup be defense. That leaves one glaring hole to me. Frazier. And combined with bruce (low contact high pop feast or famine guys) they kill too many rallies with impatient undisciplined at bats that end in weak contact or Ks. I wouldn't move Bruce bc his D is all star caliber, he's younger than Frazier, and Bruce will heat up. I actually like what mes has done. He seems to have decent plate discipline for his age and a good eye and makes solid contact. And if somehow the reds could get that 4 hole guy cozart goes from being a drain at the top to a guy who had plus pop for an 8 hole guy.

[reds700]

The two spot really isn't what is broken. It's just the obvious result of it. No one to protect votto bc ludwick went down. The reds need to fix the four spot that'd automatically fix the two. As far as 5 through 8 I'd make my first criteria for replacement in the lineup be defense. That leaves one glaring hole to me. Frazier. And combined with bruce (low contact high pop feast or famine guys) they kill too many rallies with impatient undisciplined at bats that end in weak contact or Ks. I wouldn't move Bruce bc his D is all star caliber, he's younger than Frazier, and Bruce will heat up. I actually like what mes has done. He seems to have decent plate discipline for his age and a good eye and makes solid contact. And if somehow the reds could get that 4 hole guy cozart goes from being a drain at the top to a guy who had plus pop for an 8 hole guy.

Why not just move Frazier to the 2? Fastball hitter and you would think hitting in front of Votto would lead to more fastballs to hit. Or Phillips to the 2 and Frazier to cleanup.

[Old school 1983]

Why not just move Frazier to the 2? Fastball hitter and you would think hitting in front of Votto would lead to more fastballs to hit. Or Phillips to the 2 and Frazier to cleanup.

I just dont think frazier is as good as some people to believe him to be. Hes not bad but it seems a lot if people on here think hes some kind if super star. Frazier to four would just cause the he and Bruce back to back strikeout thing to continue. He hits a lot of grounders too. In the two spot I could seeing him hit into a bunch of DPs but honestly he'd probably do better than the alternative at this point. In all reality a trade for a real 4 hole hitter would be the ideal solution. No offense to Todd but I'd love to see a Headley for cueto or bailey type deal if cingrani proves himself a legit MLB starter. It'd Take the pitching a notch back but you can't be losing games 2-1 all of the time. With a legit hitter behind votto he'd have to see better pitches and with Phillips in the two spot they can't pitch around him too. One if my work friends is a huge cards fan and he more or less says there gameplan is to pitch to choo Phillips and votto so they do minimal damage. Pretty much don't give them anything direct and let them get theirselves out and go after everyone else.

[reds700]

I just dont think frazier is as good as some people to believe him to be. Hes not bad but it seems a lot if people on here think hes some kind if super star. Frazier to four would just cause the he and Bruce back to back strikeout thing to continue. He hits a lot of grounders too. In the two spot I could seeing him hit into a bunch of DPs but honestly he'd probably do better than the alternative at this point. In all reality a trade for a real 4 hole hitter would be the ideal solution. No offense to Todd but I'd love to see a Headley for cueto or bailey type deal if cingrani proves himself a legit MLB starter. It'd Take the pitching a notch back but you can't be losing games 2-1 all of the time. With a legit hitter behind votto he'd have to see better pitches and with Phillips in the two spot they can't pitch around him too. One if my work friends is a huge cards fan and he more or less says there gameplan is to pitch to choo Phillips and votto so they do minimal damage. Pretty much don't give them anything direct and let them get theirselves out and go after everyone else.

I am with you on Frazier. That experiment may be coming to an end with the way he is hitting. It's sad he is one of our better options. At this point it seems like anyone other than Choo, Votto, and Phillips is an automatic out.

[reds700]

Overall this is also a dumb baseball team. Just today against the Cardinals Frazier lets 2 fastballs go by on 2-0 and 2-1 counts with a man on 3rd and one out. With Lutz and Miller behind you you have to swing. Then Bailey gets hosed at 2nd. He had already slowed around 1st. At that point just stop. You have the top of the order coming up. Just stupid baseball.

[Old school 1983]

Beavis and Butthead scored more than the Reds do against good pitching.

[xsteve1]

The loss of Ludwig has really hurt the entire chemistry of the lineup and Joey is a shell of his former self. The team played much hungrier with Votto out of the lineup last year.

[Old school 1983]

The loss of Ludwig has really hurt the entire chemistry of the lineup and Joey is a shell of his former self. The team played much hungrier with Votto out of the lineup last year.

Ludwicks loss was huge. He was the one player the reds could not replace at leadt partially without going outside of organization...a right handed power bat with experience and good plate discipline.

[Johnny Fan]

I would bet that if you look at the starting pitching the Reds have faced since opening day and produced a winning record right now are some of the top pitchers in baseball. Nationals 7 games against a pretty strong staff, 6 games against the Cards who I think are tops in starters so far, 3 vs Pirates who are doing pretty well so far. When we faced lesser pitching we did just fine. Over the next month outside of the Braves we face a little less dominate pitching, so lets see where we stand on June 1 before we leap off the bridge...

[Goose1701]

The loss of Ludwig has really hurt the entire chemistry of the lineup and Joey is a shell of his former self. The team played much hungrier with Votto out of the lineup last year.

Yeah, that .393 wOBA really does suck balls!

And chemistry? Ugh. Are these kind of comments just a sun deck thing? Because I sure hope so.

[Old school 1983]

I would bet that if you look at the starting pitching the Reds have faced since opening day and produced a winning record right now are some of the top pitchers in baseball. Nationals 7 games against a pretty strong staff, 6 games against the Cards who I think are tops in starters so far, 3 vs Pirates who are doing pretty well so far. When we faced lesser pitching we did just fine. Over the next month outside of the Braves we face a little less dominate pitching, so lets see where we stand on June 1 before we leap off the bridge...

I know the numbers will look better against lesser pitching but I already know the reds can beat those teams. I want to know the reds can win a series against high quality pitching like the cardinals have done with us. I think it comes down to are we happy to make the playoffs or do we want to win. If we are happy to make it we can kid ourselves into thinking our offense is ok when we beat the snot out of pitchers who are not playoff quality. Or do we want to win in the playoffs? If that's the case we need to find a legit 4 hole guy and some more selective hitters while finding a way to improve our third base and centerfield defense.(move choo to a corner)

[Old school 1983]

Yeah, that .393 wOBA really does suck balls!

And chemistry? Ugh. Are these kind of comments just a sun deck thing? Because I sure hope so.

Losing ludwick is huge. It allows votto to be more easily pitched around and a gaping hole in the 2 spot. But that's not the only worry. The reds need to find a way to level off the offense and keep it passable until the trade deadline. I think the pitching will keep them in contention. Then at the deadline make a move for a 4 hole bat and maybe a veteran type disciplined hitter.

[Goose1701]

Losing ludwick is huge. It allows votto to be more easily pitched around and a gaping hole in the 2 spot. But that's not the only worry. The reds need to find a way to level off the offense and keep it passable until the trade deadline. I think the pitching will keep them in contention. Then at the deadline make a move for a 4 hole bat and maybe a veteran type disciplined hitter.

Yeah losing Ludwick's bat undoubtedly is having a big effect on the offense.

[RedlegJake]

Losing Ludwick hurts in 2 ways. Losing his bat and giving Dusty rope to play with viz lineups...the weaker aspect of his managing skillset.

[Old school 1983]

Losing Ludwick hurts in 2 ways. Losing his bat and giving Dusty rope to play with viz lineups...the weaker aspect of his managing skillset.

Exactly!

[Goose1701]

Just going off of the title of this thread:

At this point last year, the Reds were 16-15 with a +1 run differential.

Right now the Reds are 21-16 with a +28 run differential, which is the 2nd best in the National League(Cards are +48!!!). Oh and they lead the National League in runs scored.

[Old school 1983]

Just going off of the title of this thread:

At this point last year, the Reds were 16-15 with a +1 run differential.

Right now the Reds are 21-16 with a +28 run differential, which is the 2nd best in the National League(Cards are +48!!!). Oh and they lead the National League in runs scored.

I knew the team had it in them and I never thought they were worse than last year, but lets not get too pumped up over them smashing some dude from Milwaukee that looked like he was pitching BP. Remember what happened against the better pitching in April. The kind that will be in the playoffs. Lets not forget we could use another bat

[Vottomatic]

I knew the team had it in them and I never thought they were worse than last year, but lets not get too pumped up over them smashing some dude from Milwaukee that looked like he was pitching BP. Remember what happened against the better pitching in April. The kind that will be in the playoffs. Lets not forget we could use another bat

They've played a tough schedule and they're 5 games above .500.

I think that is very respectable.

[Old school 1983]

They've played a tough schedule and they're 5 games above .500.

I think that is very respectable.

I think it's very respectable too. They are doing a fine job especially considering the injuries. But lets not let a span of games against lesser opponents haze the fact that this team could still use some help. I've always said I think they can make the playoffs with the talent they have but getting over the top would require a lil more whether it be a ludwick return, someone to step up big time, or a player move later on.

[reds700]

This team still needs to show it can consistently defeat good competition. Taking the Brewers series is a good start. The Ludwick injury has hurt but the Cueto injury has been a non factor so far. We have only lost 1 game that Cingrani started. When Cueto comes back are we gonna keep Cingrani up?

[lidspinner]

They've played a tough schedule and they're 5 games above .500.

I think that is very respectable.


Respectable? Heck yes it's respectable but it's not playoff contention respectable....there is huge difference in being respected and being feared....the pirates are respected, the cardinals are feared right now.....

With that said, we are not far behind the cardinals and we are literally a sweep away from taking over the central....it's early and there is a ton of baseball to be played and I think the reds will continue to grow as the season goes on.....the downside to that is if we are winning as July comes and goes will Walt pull the trigger and get us a cleanup hitter? I don't know the answer to that.

The other thing we all have to remember is this......there is a thing called the wild card and its open to any team that doesn't win their div so if we don't win the central we can still make the playoffs and once in the playoffs anything can happen....the giants, we had them down to their last game and we were at home, look what happened.....the cardinals last year and the year before, look how they played in the playoffs......anything can happen once you get to the postseason.......lets just get there and see where it goes from then.....we don't need to worry about the central, that's the goal but placing 2nd doesn't mean we lose.

[Vottomatic]

This team still needs to show it can consistently defeat good competition. Taking the Brewers series is a good start. The Ludwick injury has hurt but the Cueto injury has been a non factor so far. We have only lost 1 game that Cingrani started. When Cueto comes back are we gonna keep Cingrani up?

Both Cingrani and Leake have pitched well. Leake pitched really well his last outing especially.

I think Cingrani goes down and works on his breaking and off speed pitches. I think the homers he's given up are connected with him overusing his fastball.

[Old school 1983]

Both Cingrani and Leake have pitched well. Leake pitched really well his last outing especially.

I think Cingrani goes down and works on his breaking and off speed pitches. I think the homers he's given up are connected with him overusing his fastball.

I'm agreeing with that. It looks like a lot of batters are sitting on the fastball. If he can mix the off speed stuff a little more hell be better.

[Old school 1983]

Respectable? Heck yes it's respectable but it's not playoff contention respectable....there is huge difference in being respected and being feared....the pirates are respected, the cardinals are feared right now.....

With that said, we are not far behind the cardinals and we are literally a sweep away from taking over the central....it's early and there is a ton of baseball to be played and I think the reds will continue to grow as the season goes on.....the downside to that is if we are winning as July comes and goes will Walt pull the trigger and get us a cleanup hitter? I don't know the answer to that.

The other thing we all have to remember is this......there is a thing called the wild card and its open to any team that doesn't win their div so if we don't win the central we can still make the playoffs and once in the playoffs anything can happen....the giants, we had them down to their last game and we were at home, look what happened.....the cardinals last year and the year before, look how they played in the playoffs......anything can happen once you get to the postseason.......lets just get there and see where it goes from then.....we don't need to worry about the central, that's the goal but placing 2nd doesn't mean we lose.


While I definitely want the reds to win the division ill say this. I'd take them winning a wild card knowing they are a complete team and ready to win in the playoffs, rather than a division winner that is lacking all the pieces to win in the playoffs. That being said a division winner that has all of the pieces in place to make a deep playoff run is the optimal option.