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NebraskaRed
06-05-2013, 04:15 PM
Reds:

Choo 8,
Cozart 6,
Votto 3,
Bruce 9,
Frazier 5,
Paul 7,
Hannahan 4,
Hanigan 2,
Villareal 1

Rockies:

Colorado Rockies:
CF: Eric Young
3B: Nolan Arenado
LF: Carlos Gonzalez
SS: Troy Tulowitzki
RF: Michael Cuddyer
1B: Todd Helton
C: Wilin Rosario
2B: Jonathan Herrera
SP: Jon Garland

Predictions:
(1) Villareal goes 4 1/2 innings. We see a lot of Simon tonight.
(2) Hannahan botches a play or two, and people instantly ask for Izturis to come back
(3) Votto homers
(4) Hannahan and Hanigan batting next to each other in the lineup will result in frustration over how many n's are in each of their names
(5) Reds win

texasdave
06-05-2013, 04:24 PM
Reds:

Choo 8,
Cozart 6,
Votto 3,
Bruce 9,
Frazier 5,
Paul 7,
Hannahan 4,
Hanigan 2,
Villareal 1

Predictions:
(1) Villareal goes 4 1/2 innings. We see a lot of Simon tonight.
(2) Hannahan botches a play or two, and people instantly ask for Izturis to come back
(3) Votto homers
(4) Hannahan and Hanigan batting next to each other in the lineup will result in frustration over how many n's are in each of their names
(4) Reds win

Villarreal starting is just a rumor to try to obscure the fact that Votto and Bruce hitting back-to-back.

NeilHamburger
06-05-2013, 04:55 PM
Prediction: A whole lot of runs are scored tonight. Like a 10-9 kinda game

Tom Servo
06-05-2013, 05:02 PM
Prediction: Villareal surprises some people*.





*the surprise could be that he is terrible

Redsfan320
06-05-2013, 05:11 PM
So why no Cingrani??

NM, I see he pitched Monday. Bummer.

320

757690
06-05-2013, 05:27 PM
Prediction: Villareal surprises some people*.





*the surprise could be that he is terrible

I think you need to learn the definition of surprise, lol.

757690
06-05-2013, 05:31 PM
I'm going to make a crazy, just because nothing turns out as expected, call of a 2-1 game.

_Sir_Charles_
06-05-2013, 05:47 PM
Predictions:
(1) Villareal goes 4 1/2 innings. We see a lot of Simon tonight.
(2) Hannahan botches a play or two, and people instantly ask for Izturis to come back
(3) Votto homers
(4) Hannahan and Hanigan batting next to each other in the lineup will result in frustration over how many n's are in each of their names
(5) Reds win

1: Pedro goes 7 of 3 hit / 1 run ball.
2: Hannahan goes 3 for 4 with a big fly. Looks sharp in the field.
3: Votto walks 3 times and goes hitless.
4: Numerous posters begin humming "manah-manah" during the game.
5: Hey, 1 outta 5 ain't bad....err....yeah actually, that kinda sucks. :O)

RichRed
06-05-2013, 05:49 PM
1: Pedro goes 7 of 3 hit / 1 run ball.
2: Hannahan goes 3 for 4 with a big fly. Looks sharp in the field.
3: Votto walks 3 times and goes hitless.
4: Numerous posters begin humming "manah-manah" during the game.
5: Hey, 1 outta 5 ain't bad....err....yeah actually, that kinda sucks. :O)

Hey, let's leave Izturis's OBP out of this.

traderumor
06-05-2013, 05:51 PM
Good night to take a night off for me. Watching Villareal chuck and duck could trigger my PTSD developed from staffs of the early GABP days.

Kcbuckeye22
06-05-2013, 06:20 PM
I think we'll see some long ball tonight. They say it comes in threes...BP, Cueto, and..........Villareal?

RichRed
06-05-2013, 06:26 PM
Good night to take a night off for me. Watching Villareal chuck and duck could trigger my PTSD developed from staffs of the early GABP days.

Funny you say that, when I read that Villarreal was getting a start, I started having Lost Decade flashbacks myself.

Kc61
06-05-2013, 07:24 PM
Wonder if the Reds are annoyed that Cueto didn't reveal his discomfort sooner. Might have been able to use Cingrani or Reynolds tonight.

malcontent
06-05-2013, 07:30 PM
Regarding Izturis, it's amazing how eye-opening 69 plate appearances can be.

LexRedsFan
06-05-2013, 07:47 PM
This is a depressing pre-game, that's for sure.

malcontent
06-05-2013, 07:58 PM
Just curious, how is everyone liking the New Sanitized Votto these days?

He just seems so much calmer to me.

Not as productive, but much calmer.

dubc47834
06-05-2013, 08:06 PM
Just curious, how is everyone liking the New Sanitized Votto these days?

He just seems so much calmer to me.

Not as productive, but much calmer.

Give me more f bombs and more production.

Red Raindog
06-05-2013, 08:13 PM
1 down -- :thumbup:

_Sir_Charles_
06-05-2013, 08:15 PM
Wonder if the Reds are annoyed that Cueto didn't reveal his discomfort sooner. Might have been able to use Cingrani or Reynolds tonight.

Dusty said he told them about it right after the game (his last start).


"It's the same thing he had before," manager Dusty Baker said. "He felt it a little bit after he pitched in Pittsburgh. He told us after the game he felt it. It's not as bad as last time. We want to be precautious with it."

ProfessorTofty
06-05-2013, 08:16 PM
And a strikeout makes it two out.

ProfessorTofty
06-05-2013, 08:19 PM
Gonzalez with a solo homer and the Rockies have 1-0. Hoo boy.

redsfaninbsg
06-05-2013, 08:19 PM
I have to admit, I didn't think that was going to leave the park.

Red Raindog
06-05-2013, 08:19 PM
no hitter gone

:thumbdown:

and the shut out

redsfaninbsg
06-05-2013, 08:20 PM
Dusty said he told them about it right after the game (his last start).

Pretty poor planning by the Reds then.

_Sir_Charles_
06-05-2013, 08:20 PM
Okay, that's the 1 run he's allowed to give up.

Red Raindog
06-05-2013, 08:23 PM
welcome to the show kid

LexRedsFan
06-05-2013, 08:24 PM
Welcome to the bigs, Pedro

_Sir_Charles_
06-05-2013, 08:24 PM
Pretty poor planning by the Reds then.

Not really. I think people are assuming that they wanted to bring up Cingrani again. I don't think they want to. I think they want him to stay down there and work on his secondary stuff. Johnny told them about the muscle after the game...they needed to find out how it responded to rest and exercise...that took time. From the sounds of things, we're looking at needing someone for maybe 2 starts...Pedro should be expected to be able to fill that small void. If not, he should be released IMO.

redsfaninbsg
06-05-2013, 08:24 PM
This could be ugly, and if Cueto alerted the Reds about his injury as a previous post alluded to, the team has nobody to blame but themselves.

Tom Servo
06-05-2013, 08:24 PM
Pitching to contact not working out so well.

_Sir_Charles_
06-05-2013, 08:24 PM
And that's the last of the 3 hits I said he was allotted.

ProfessorTofty
06-05-2013, 08:25 PM
And that's a fly to end the inning. So out of the inning with only one run scored.

redsfaninbsg
06-05-2013, 08:26 PM
Not really. I think people are assuming that they wanted to bring up Cingrani again. I don't think they want to. I think they want him to stay down there and work on his secondary stuff. Johnny told them about the muscle after the game...they needed to find out how it responded to rest and exercise...that took time. From the sounds of things, we're looking at needing someone for maybe 2 starts...Pedro should be expected to be able to fill that small void. If not, he should be released IMO.

So in the thick of a pennant race, the Reds are just running guys out there to see if they can fill a void? If so, this team just took a huge step back in my book. These guys pitch in September when you are out of it or already have it locked up. If they knew about Cueto, they should have worked it to get Cingrani on this day. If he's not needed, great, if he is, he's pitching tonight.

_Sir_Charles_
06-05-2013, 08:26 PM
1: Pedro goes 7 of 3 hit / 1 run ball.


Okay, now he just needs to throw a no-hit shutout for the next 6 innings. Strap in Pedro! :p

scott91575
06-05-2013, 08:26 PM
At least he gave up the home run at the right time.

RedsBrick
06-05-2013, 08:27 PM
Hope the bats of the good guys are hot tonight....gonna need the runs.

ProfessorTofty
06-05-2013, 08:29 PM
Choo pops out in foul territory.

Cozart in with a double at the wall!

redsfaninbsg
06-05-2013, 08:29 PM
Alright, get this run back.

_Sir_Charles_
06-05-2013, 08:30 PM
So in the thick of a pennant race, the Reds are just running guys out there to see if they can fill a void? If so, this team just took a huge step back in my book. These guys pitch in September when you are out of it or already have it locked up. If they knew about Cueto, they should have worked it to get Cingrani on this day. If he's not needed, great, if he is, he's pitching tonight.

I think you're missing my point. They see Cingrani as a long-term solution. In order to get the most out of that, he needs to work on that secondary stuff. Why scrub that plan for 1 or 2 starts? He has not been succeeding lately IIRC. He's clearly working on that stuff they want him to. So let him work on it.

Villareal is not a scrub. He's a starting pitcher at the AAA level who got a call up last year. He may get tattooed tonight...but I think the Reds have confidence in Pedro to keep the Reds in a game.

ProfessorTofty
06-05-2013, 08:30 PM
Some great baserunning by Cozart there to make second.

Tom Servo
06-05-2013, 08:31 PM
boo tulowitzki

_Sir_Charles_
06-05-2013, 08:32 PM
Is it just me or was Votto just jogging to first?

Kc61
06-05-2013, 08:32 PM
Not really. I think people are assuming that they wanted to bring up Cingrani again. I don't think they want to. I think they want him to stay down there and work on his secondary stuff. Johnny told them about the muscle after the game...they needed to find out how it responded to rest and exercise...that took time. From the sounds of things, we're looking at needing someone for maybe 2 starts...Pedro should be expected to be able to fill that small void. If not, he should be released IMO.

Reds are in no position to waste ballgames using their third or fourth best AAA pitcher.

My guess is they made a calculated decision that Cueto would likely pitch tonight and so they didn't rearrange the AAA rotation. It backfired.

Even if Pedro V throws a three hitter and goes the route, I would have Cingrani pitch next time.

Vottomatic
06-05-2013, 08:32 PM
Galarraga isn't on the 40-man, but I'd have rather seen him up here pitching.

redsfaninbsg
06-05-2013, 08:32 PM
I think you're missing my point. They see Cingrani as a long-term solution. In order to get the most out of that, he needs to work on that secondary stuff. Why scrub that plan for 1 or 2 starts? He has not been succeeding lately. He's clearly working on that stuff they want him to. So let him work on it.

Villareal is not a scrub. He's a starting pitcher at the AAA level who got a call up last year. He may get tattooed tonight...but I think the Reds have confidence in Pedro to keep the Reds in a game.

I understand what you are saying, I just don't agree with this philosophy. At this point, you are trying to win games at the MLB level. To me, that means running your best out there and I think Cingrani is clearly better than Villareal.

RiverRat13
06-05-2013, 08:32 PM
Did Lutz ever give an explanation for his running last night? Did he think there was two outs or did he think the ball wouldn't be caught?

ProfessorTofty
06-05-2013, 08:33 PM
Bruce walks and we have first and third.

ProfessorTofty
06-05-2013, 08:34 PM
Frazier blasts one to center, and we are tied up!

Kc61
06-05-2013, 08:35 PM
I think you're missing my point. They see Cingrani as a long-term solution. In order to get the most out of that, he needs to work on that secondary stuff. Why scrub that plan for 1 or 2 starts? He has not been succeeding lately IIRC. He's clearly working on that stuff they want him to. So let him work on it.

Villareal is not a scrub. He's a starting pitcher at the AAA level who got a call up last year. He may get tattooed tonight...but I think the Reds have confidence in Pedro to keep the Reds in a game.

I think Pedro V is pitching for two reasons.

First, he's on the forty man roster.

Second, he's rested.

If those were both true for Cingrani, Reynolds, or Gallaraga, that person would be pitching.

_Sir_Charles_
06-05-2013, 08:36 PM
Reds are in no position to waste ballgames using their third or fourth best AAA pitcher.

My guess is they made a calculated decision that Cueto would likely pitch tonight and so they didn't rearrange the AAA rotation. It backfired.

Even if Pedro V throws a three hitter and goes the route, I would have Cingrani pitch next time.

40 man roster played a role in the choice as well I'd imagine.

Pedro just came off a 7 ip 4 hit 2 run game.
Tony just came off a 7 ip 6 hit 3 run game.

Just sayin it's not the horrible decision some are making it out to be.

~edit~ Your last post is very reasonable and most likely close to the truth. I just don't see it being enough to get worked up about.

RedsBrick
06-05-2013, 08:37 PM
Choo's slash on 4/24 was .392/.534/.608. Going into tonight: .282/.438/.493.

Tom Servo
06-05-2013, 08:39 PM
Choo's slash on 4/24 was .392/.534/.608. Going into tonight: .282/.438/.493.
Okay?

Kc61
06-05-2013, 08:39 PM
40 man roster played a role in the choice as well I'd imagine.

Pedro just came off a 7 ip 4 hit 2 run game.
Tony just came off a 7 ip 6 hit 3 run game.

Just sayin it's not the horrible decision some are making it out to be.

~edit~ Your last post is very reasonable and most likely close to the truth. I just don't see it being enough to get worked up about.

Agree. But no way should Pedro pitch next time. That would be the stuff of a long thread.

ProfessorTofty
06-05-2013, 08:39 PM
Xavier Paul-- gone! 3 run HR! Whooo! How's that for run support?

Red Raindog
06-05-2013, 08:39 PM
Love that X man

dubc47834
06-05-2013, 08:39 PM
HR good guys!!!!

redsfaninbsg
06-05-2013, 08:39 PM
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxx

Tom Servo
06-05-2013, 08:39 PM
X gon give it to ya!!!! :jump:

BluegrassRedleg
06-05-2013, 08:40 PM
X-Man! :beerme:

Gizmo
06-05-2013, 08:40 PM
meanwhile, in baseball, Reds up 4-1.

_Sir_Charles_
06-05-2013, 08:40 PM
Go BABY!!! :jump: Paul! BIG FLY! 4-1 Reds!

RedsBrick
06-05-2013, 08:40 PM
Atta boy, XP!

kaldaniels
06-05-2013, 08:41 PM
Platoon Heisey (when back) and Paul until Ludwick comes back. Next Question.

Kc61
06-05-2013, 08:41 PM
XMan is a very sound hitter. He does some things I like. That was an outstanding at bat. He was not thrown by a terrible strike called on the third pitch.

Really think Xavier is very underrated.

ProfessorTofty
06-05-2013, 08:42 PM
Hannahan strikes out, but at the end of 1, it's 4-1 Reds.

_Sir_Charles_
06-05-2013, 08:43 PM
Agree. But no way should Pedro pitch next time. That would be the stuff of a long thread.

Let me put it this way...do you want Tony to work on his secondary stuff at the big league level and get pounded...or work on his stuff in the minors? I bet the Reds want him to work on stuff at the place designed for players to "work on stuff". The minors.

Yes, I think Cingrani is better than Pedro...but is coming up right now better for Cingrani or is it better for him to stay put for now? I'm not sure everybody is asking the right question. Our focus is on the Reds and right here and now...a wider lens is sometimes helpful. :thumbup:

dubc47834
06-05-2013, 08:43 PM
I could care less who they brought up to start this game and maybe another. As Dusty said it will hopefully be 1 maybe 2 games. I don't think you bring Cingrani up for 2 starts and waste an option on him. IMHO he needs to be in Louisville working on his secondary pitches. But hey, thats just me!

kaldaniels
06-05-2013, 08:45 PM
I could care less who they brought up to start this game and maybe another. As Dusty said it will hopefully be 1 maybe 2 games. I don't think you bring Cingrani up for 2 starts and waste an option on him. IMHO he needs to be in Louisville working on his secondary pitches. But hey, thats just me!

Has an option not been used so far?

_Sir_Charles_
06-05-2013, 08:45 PM
Platoon Heisey (when back) and Paul until Ludwick comes back. Next Question.

I've been very impressed with Lutz and Robinson as well though. I don't want to see it just be those 2 guys and bench Lutz and Robinson.

kaldaniels
06-05-2013, 08:46 PM
Let me put it this way...do you want Tony to work on his secondary stuff at the big league level and get pounded...or work on his stuff in the minors? I bet the Reds want him to work on stuff at the place designed for players to "work on stuff". The minors.

Yes, I think Cingrani is better than Pedro...but is coming up right now better for Cingrani or is it better for him to stay put for now? I'm not sure everybody is asking the right question. Our focus is on the Reds and right here and now...a wider lens is sometimes helpful. :thumbup:

My wide lens says letting Tony start a couple more games for the Reds and then returning to Louisville won't stunt his growth.

dubc47834
06-05-2013, 08:46 PM
Has an option not been used so far?

Not gonna lie, don't know exactly how all that works, but Im sure they have. Wouldn't they use another if they brought him up again?

kaldaniels
06-05-2013, 08:48 PM
I've been very impressed with Lutz and Robinson as well though. I don't want to see it just be those 2 guys and bench Lutz and Robinson.

Then you will really be upset about Lutz's upcoming demotion.

_Sir_Charles_
06-05-2013, 08:48 PM
My wide lens says letting Tony start a couple more games for the Reds and then returning to Louisville won't stunt his growth.

You may be right. I'm just pointing out that this may not be the way the Reds F.O. is thinking. And that bringing up Pedro might not be the "dumb" or "stupid" move that some are making it out to be.

kaldaniels
06-05-2013, 08:48 PM
Not gonna lie, don't know exactly how all that works, but Im sure they have. Wouldn't they use another if they brought him up again?

Nope, only 1 a year.

_Sir_Charles_
06-05-2013, 08:49 PM
Not gonna lie, don't know exactly how all that works, but Im sure they have. Wouldn't they use another if they brought him up again?

It's an option "year". Once you burn it, he can be yo-yo'd up and down all season long...still just one option.

BluegrassRedleg
06-05-2013, 08:49 PM
That young lady seemed to be really admiring her Latos bobblehead. :p

kaldaniels
06-05-2013, 08:50 PM
Lets get through 5 Pedro, pitch efficiency be damned. Just get outs.

_Sir_Charles_
06-05-2013, 08:50 PM
Then you will really be upset about Lutz's upcoming demotion.

Nah, I'm expecting it. But I like seeing him get opportunities while he's up here. He'll be back. Kid's got talent.

dubc47834
06-05-2013, 08:50 PM
Nope, only 1 a year.

Well, if thats the case, if Cueto's injury turns out to be longer I might change my mind a bit. Thanks for edjumacating me on that...lol

reds1869
06-05-2013, 08:51 PM
That was close.

dubc47834
06-05-2013, 08:51 PM
Good thing that was the pitcher, looked like a HR off the bat!!!

_Sir_Charles_
06-05-2013, 08:51 PM
double off the wall by...wait, really? Garland? Okay. :(

_Sir_Charles_
06-05-2013, 08:53 PM
That was close.

Just thought I'd point out that I like your avatar. Where'd you get that? Unusual.

reds1869
06-05-2013, 08:54 PM
Just thought I'd point out that I like your avatar. Where'd you get that? Unusual.

Found it in a Sports Illustrated article about Lego portraits and statues of sports figures.

Blitz Dorsey
06-05-2013, 08:54 PM
We have three good AAA pitchers (Cingrani, Galarraga and Reynolds) so of course it's Villareal's turn to pitch when we need a last-minute replacement.

Oh well, hopefully he can hold on to the lead. I'm bummed about this Cueto news. It's been one thing after another with him since that first playoff game last year. We can't lose our cleanup hitter and our ace pitcher the same season and seriously expect to contend for a WS title. I know the Cardinals won it all recently despite a rash of injuries, but they were the exception to the rule. The idea that a small-market team is going to be able to withstand all these injuries to key players is foolish. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm worried. This team has the roster to win it all. One of the few things that can derail us is injuries to key players.

_Sir_Charles_
06-05-2013, 08:55 PM
Found it in a Sports Illustrated article about Lego portraits and statues of sports figures.

Wait...those are LEGO'S?!? Cool.

~edit~ Found it. Those are cool as heck. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/main/photos/1210/lego-in-sports/2/

Kc61
06-05-2013, 08:57 PM
Let me put it this way...do you want Tony to work on his secondary stuff at the big league level and get pounded...or work on his stuff in the minors? I bet the Reds want him to work on stuff at the place designed for players to "work on stuff". The minors.

Yes, I think Cingrani is better than Pedro...but is coming up right now better for Cingrani or is it better for him to stay put for now? I'm not sure everybody is asking the right question. Our focus is on the Reds and right here and now...a wider lens is sometimes helpful. :thumbup:


The Reds should use the pitcher who gives the MLB club the best chance to win. Period. Everything else is secondary.

Cingrani can work on his secondary stuff after Cueto's injury, or in winter ball, or next spring, or whenever.

_Sir_Charles_
06-05-2013, 08:57 PM
We have three good AAA pitchers (Cingrani, Galarraga and Reynolds) so of course it's Villareal's turn to pitch when we need a last-minute replacement.

Oh well, hopefully he can hold on to the lead. I'm bummed about this Cueto news. It's been one thing after another with him since that first playoff game last year. We can't lose our cleanup hitter and our ace pitcher the same season and seriously expect to contend for a WS title. I know the Cardinals won it all recently despite a rash of injuries, but they were the exception to the rule. The idea that a small-market team is going to be able to withstand all these injuries to key players is foolish. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm worried. This team has the roster to win it all. One of the few things that can derail us is injuries to key players.

Only Cingrani of those 3 are on the 40 man roster.

dubc47834
06-05-2013, 08:58 PM
We have three good AAA pitchers (Cingrani, Galarraga and Reynolds) so of course it's Villareal's turn to pitch when we need a last-minute replacement.

Oh well, hopefully he can hold on to the lead. I'm bummed about this Cueto news. It's been one thing after another with him since that first playoff game last year. We can't lose our cleanup hitter and our ace pitcher the same season and seriously expect to contend for a WS title. I know the Cardinals won it all recently despite a rash of injuries, but they were the exception to the rule. The idea that a small-market team is going to be able to withstand all these injuries to key players is foolish. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm worried. This team has the roster to win it all. One of the few things that can derail us is injuries to key players.

Do you complain about everything man?

Red Raindog
06-05-2013, 08:59 PM
That young lady seemed to be really admiring her Latos bobblehead. :p

don't tell Dallas or blood may be shed

_Sir_Charles_
06-05-2013, 08:59 PM
The Reds should use the pitcher who gives the MLB club the best chance to win. Period. Everything else is secondary.

Cingrani can work on his secondary stuff after Cueto's injury, or in winter ball, or next spring, or whenever.

Disagree. Somebody has to look at the bigger picture at all times. It may not be the driving thought behind the decision, but it should be a factor in the decisions.

Kc61
06-05-2013, 09:00 PM
We have three good AAA pitchers (Cingrani, Galarraga and Reynolds) so of course it's Villareal's turn to pitch when we need a last-minute replacement.

Oh well, hopefully he can hold on to the lead. I'm bummed about this Cueto news. It's been one thing after another with him since that first playoff game last year. We can't lose our cleanup hitter and our ace pitcher the same season and seriously expect to contend for a WS title. I know the Cardinals won it all recently despite a rash of injuries, but they were the exception to the rule. The idea that a small-market team is going to be able to withstand all these injuries to key players is foolish. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm worried. This team has the roster to win it all. One of the few things that can derail us is injuries to key players.

I'm not as worried, but I do think the Reds have lost important parts.

IMO the number one starting pitcher is the most important player on any MLB team. Cueto's absence is a big loss. Hopefully it is short.

Ludwick and Marshall are missed too, as we all know.

scott91575
06-05-2013, 09:01 PM
Now that is an overbite

kaldaniels
06-05-2013, 09:02 PM
So to be clear, Sir Charles, do you want Pedro to replace Johnny if it is for a couple more starts?

foxfire123
06-05-2013, 09:02 PM
This is a good day. I didn't have to cook, and I've insulted a Cardinals fan. Life is good. :P

Kc61
06-05-2013, 09:03 PM
Disagree. Somebody has to look at the bigger picture at all times. It may not be the driving thought behind the decision, but it should be a factor in the decisions.

There is no bigger picture for this team. There is one picture. Going as far this year as possible.

Would I allow a guy to seriously injure himself to win? Of course not.

Would I allow a guy to postpone work on his secondary pitches? Surely.

dubc47834
06-05-2013, 09:04 PM
I don't think that's how that interview was planned...lol

scott91575
06-05-2013, 09:05 PM
Buh bye.

Tom Servo
06-05-2013, 09:05 PM
boo tulowitzki

dubc47834
06-05-2013, 09:05 PM
Tulo bomb...crushed!!!

Red Raindog
06-05-2013, 09:05 PM
better score 10 tonight

Blitz Dorsey
06-05-2013, 09:05 PM
Shocking that a guy with a 5+ ERA at Triple-A is getting rocked around.

scott91575
06-05-2013, 09:05 PM
alright pedro just get through 5 and hopefully only 3 runs.

Vottomatic
06-05-2013, 09:05 PM
Pedro Villanotreal gives up the bomb!

Kc61
06-05-2013, 09:05 PM
Hanigan might have told Pedro that Tulo is very powerful and he might just pitch around him.

BluegrassRedleg
06-05-2013, 09:05 PM
This guy is WAY too good a hitter to be seeing the meat the Reds staff has served up.

malcontent
06-05-2013, 09:06 PM
Gotta locate pedestrian stuff.

foxfire123
06-05-2013, 09:06 PM
better score 10 tonight

Better score in more than one inning is more like it. *sigh*

dubc47834
06-05-2013, 09:06 PM
Shocking that a guy with a 5+ ERA at Triple-A is getting rocked around.

Uhhhh, we are winning dude!!!

_Sir_Charles_
06-05-2013, 09:07 PM
So to be clear, Sir Charles, do you want Pedro to replace Johnny if it is for a couple more starts?

2 starts including tonight...I'm fine with it. More than that...I'd want to see a 40 man roster change. And they should know the answer to that shortly I'd think.

Tom Servo
06-05-2013, 09:08 PM
Shocking that a guy with a 5+ ERA at Triple-A is getting rocked around.
Yeah what kind of bum gives up homeruns to scrubs like Carlos Gonzalez and Troy Tulowitzski?

Kc61
06-05-2013, 09:08 PM
I'd give Pedro V until the pitcher's spot. Then he's out. He should not face the top of this batting order again.

And nothing good to Helton.

krm1580
06-05-2013, 09:08 PM
I get the fact that the guy is roster filler but you can't you throw a pitch in THAT location to an elite cleanup hitter.


The other problem tonight is the Reds seem to be cursed when they have a big first inning. They always seem to take the rest of the night off.

Blitz Dorsey
06-05-2013, 09:09 PM
I'd give Pedro V until the pitcher's spot. Then he's out. He should not face the top of this batting order again.

And nothing good to Helton.

Yep, this lineup will crush him if they see him a third time.

scott91575
06-05-2013, 09:09 PM
Isn't Helton an AARP member by now?

redsfaninbsg
06-05-2013, 09:10 PM
Villarreal pitching is a total miss management of the organization. Provided, Cueto alerted the team of his issue after his last start. It's just flat out unacceptable.

Blitz Dorsey
06-05-2013, 09:10 PM
Yeah what kind of bum gives up homeruns to scrubs like Carlos Gonzalez and Troy Tulowitzski?

Yep, I called him a "bum."

He's a guy with a 5+ ERA at Triple-A. That's a fact. It's not impressive. Neither is your poor attempt at sarcasm.

kaldaniels
06-05-2013, 09:10 PM
2 starts including tonight...I'm fine with it. More than that...I'd want to see a 40 man roster change. And they should know the answer to that shortly I'd think.

Fair enough, but I'd go with Tony C.

malcontent
06-05-2013, 09:11 PM
I seem to recall Villarreal was crushed in spring training.

dubc47834
06-05-2013, 09:11 PM
Isn't Helton an AARP member by now?

Helton has had a rough life, Peyton Manning backup at Tennessee, then a really good MLB career. Not too shabby!!!

realistic
06-05-2013, 09:11 PM
if we lose the division by 1 game, itll be because of this throwaway game. this is ridiculous. this guy has no place in the majors. already know we will get to see parra and his .450 opp BA here soon. im goin to bed. up 4-3 and i know we lost this game already

Blitz Dorsey
06-05-2013, 09:12 PM
I seem to recall Villarreal was crushed in spring training.

Be careful. Tom Servo might translate that into you calling him a "bum."

malcontent
06-05-2013, 09:12 PM
I was having daydreams of Villarreal pitching to a 4.50 ERA.

Blitz Dorsey
06-05-2013, 09:12 PM
if we lose the division by 1 game, itll be because of this throwaway game. this is ridiculous. this guy has no place in the majors. already know we will get to see parra and his .450 opp BA here soon. im goin to bed. up 4-3 and i know we lost this game already

You're going to bed? Wow. Do you have to be up at 3 a.m.?

Tom Servo
06-05-2013, 09:12 PM
Yep, I called him a "bum."

He's a guy with a 5+ ERA at Triple-A. That's a fact. It's not impressive. Neither is your poor attempt at sarcasm.
I think it was a solid quip. Villareal is what he is, you effectively complaining that we don't have an emergency starter who can pitch like Cueto/Latos/Arroyo/Bailey/Leake is silly.

realistic
06-05-2013, 09:12 PM
13 hrs allowed in 1/3 season at louisville, did they call him up so he'd not set the record for hr allowed?

Kc61
06-05-2013, 09:13 PM
Villarreal pitching is a total miss management of the organization. Provided, Cueto alerted the team of his issue after his last start. It's just flat out unacceptable.

Strong words, but I agree with this sentiment. As soon as Cueto reported discomfort Cingrani should have been bumped IMO.

The Louisville game Monday was not that important.

_Sir_Charles_
06-05-2013, 09:13 PM
Villarreal pitching is a total miss management of the organization. Provided, Cueto alerted the team of his issue after his last start. It's just flat out unacceptable.


if we lose the division by 1 game, itll be because of this throwaway game. this is ridiculous. this guy has no place in the majors. already know we will get to see parra and his .450 opp BA here soon. im goin to bed. up 4-3 and i know we lost this game already


This is what I mean. Is he the best choice...no. But come on, this is just way over the top. Giving up 2 HR's to those 2 hitters and allowing 3 runs against this offense is not "unacceptable". Neither is the Reds not wanting to make a decision on whether or not to DL Cueto until they were sure they needed to. Once they DID decide...their options were limited. No reason to disrupt Tony's start days unless you needed to.

realistic
06-05-2013, 09:14 PM
You're going to bed? Wow. Do you have to be up at 3 a.m.?

yeah 4cst, gotta be in nashville by 5. maybe ill stay up and watch the rangers/red sox pitching duel..bizarro world

Blitz Dorsey
06-05-2013, 09:14 PM
I think it was a solid quip. Villareal is what he is, you effectively complaining that we don't have an emergency starter who can pitch like Cueto/Latos/Arroyo/Bailey/Leake is silly.

Nice try once again at putting words in my mouth. You're now 0-for-2. I did not lament the fact we do not have someone of Cueto's level (or the rest of our excellent starting staff) to replace Cueto. I said it stinks that we have three good pitchers RIGHT NOW on our Triple-A roster who are good and it's unfortunate that it's Villareal's night to pitch, not one of theirs'. Talking about Cingrani, Galarraga and Reynolds. Just the luck of the draw, but it still stinks that we have a guy not ready for MLB (not even ready for Triple-A) as our starter tonight.

dubc47834
06-05-2013, 09:15 PM
if we lose the division by 1 game, itll be because of this throwaway game. this is ridiculous. this guy has no place in the majors. already know we will get to see parra and his .450 opp BA here soon. im goin to bed. up 4-3 and i know we lost this game already

For real guy!!! So the last 2 games that we blew don't matter. When you lose by 1 game, there are many that you COULD look back on and point to.

kaldaniels
06-05-2013, 09:15 PM
Helton has had a rough life, Peyton Manning backup at Tennessee, then a really good MLB career. Not too shabby!!!

Poor guy...maybe he will hit the lottery one day.

http://static1.businessinsider.com/image/5114061a69beddbf7f00000e-300/todd-helton-mug-shot.jpg

_Sir_Charles_
06-05-2013, 09:15 PM
Yep, I called him a "bum."

He's a guy with a 5+ ERA at Triple-A. That's a fact. It's not impressive. Neither is your poor attempt at sarcasm.

And your opinion on Daniel Corcino is?

Tom Servo
06-05-2013, 09:16 PM
Nice try once again at putting words in my mouth. You're now 0-for-2. I did not lament the fact we do not have someone of Cueto's level (or the rest of our excellent starting staff) to replace Cueto. I said it stinks that we have three good pitchers RIGHT NOW on our Triple-A roster who are good and it's unfortunate that it's Villareal's night to pitch, not one of theirs'.
And the point that I would make is that any of those three pitchers, or any in our rotation, could give up homeruns to hitters like Gonzalez and Tulowitzki.


Boy, you are awfully testy.

redsfaninbsg
06-05-2013, 09:16 PM
This is what I mean. Is he the best choice...no. But come on, this is just way over the top. Giving up 2 HR's to those 2 hitters and allowing 3 runs against this offense is not "unacceptable". Neither is the Reds not wanting to make a decision on whether or not to DL Cueto until they were sure they needed to. Once they DID decide...their options were limited. No reason to disrupt Tony's start days unless you needed to.

You think not disrupting Cingrani's AAA schedule is more important than the Reds, I don't.

realistic
06-05-2013, 09:17 PM
For real guy!!! So the last 2 games that we blew don't matter. When you lose by 1 game, there are many that you COULD look back on and point to.

losing a game because odds caught up with LeCure and he got hit is one thing....putting this clown on the mound against this lineup in this ballpark is just conceding the game.

Blitz Dorsey
06-05-2013, 09:19 PM
And your opinion on Daniel Corcino is?

Very high coming into the season and now I'm worried. But he's young and I bet he bounces back next year in Louisville if the organization is patient with him. But man he's been a disappointment and then some this year. He's made Villarreal look like a Cy Young candidate by comparison.

But you won't find a better top-3 at the Triple-A level than Cingrani, Galarraga and Reynolds. Solid.

dubc47834
06-05-2013, 09:19 PM
losing a game because odds caught up with LeCure and he got hit is one thing....putting this clown on the mound against this lineup in this ballpark is just conceding the game.

So...what happens when they win this game?

malcontent
06-05-2013, 09:20 PM
I think Votto just declined a walk there.

Kc61
06-05-2013, 09:20 PM
This is what I mean. Is he the best choice...no. But come on, this is just way over the top. Giving up 2 HR's to those 2 hitters and allowing 3 runs against this offense is not "unacceptable". Neither is the Reds not wanting to make a decision on whether or not to DL Cueto until they were sure they needed to. Once they DID decide...their options were limited. No reason to disrupt Tony's start days unless you needed to.

Disruption of Tony's AAA start is about number 584 on the list of priorities. Tony could rest for two extra days while they figure it out. They should have told him to go to the movies Monday and Tuesday. I would have bought him 3D glasses.

Using this pitcher IS unacceptable. The Rockies pitcher is very beatable and the Reds are now in a dogfight because Tony got to stay on schedule at AAA.

Blitz Dorsey
06-05-2013, 09:22 PM
Disruption of Tony's AAA start is about number 584 on the list of priorities. Tony could rest for two extra days while they figure it out. They should have told him to go to the movies Monday and Tuesday. I would have bought him 3D glasses.

Using this pitcher IS unacceptable. The Rockies pitcher is very beatable and the Reds are now in a dogfight because Tony got to stay on schedule at AAA.

I think 584 is a bit high, to be honest. Doesn't even crack my top-1,000.

texasdave
06-05-2013, 09:22 PM
Pedro Villarreal. Louisville's #5. Amazing. Reds should have just made it a bullpen night. Since that's how it going to turn out anyway.

Kc61
06-05-2013, 09:22 PM
I think 584 is a bit high, to be honest.

It was originally 58. But I got kind of emotional as I typed, so I added the 4.

Consider it amended.

(Sorry misunderstood you; you think 584 is too LOW a number; oh, I get it, LOL.)

dubc47834
06-05-2013, 09:23 PM
Disruption of Tony's AAA start is about number 584 on the list of priorities. Tony could rest for two extra days while they figure it out. They should have told him to go to the movies Monday and Tuesday. I would have bought him 3D glasses.

Using this pitcher IS unacceptable. The Rockies pitcher is very beatable and the Reds are now in a dogfight because Tony got to stay on schedule at AAA.

So, what woulda happened when Cingrani got those 2 extra days rest, comes up to the big club and gets crushed because he is off his "routine"?

Tom Servo
06-05-2013, 09:24 PM
So, what woulda happened when Cingrani got those 2 extra days rest, comes up to the big club and gets crushed because he is off his "routine"?
Then we would have blamed the offense for not scoring enough runs and Dusty for not pulling Cingrani sooner.


Negativity is not just an artform, but a way of life on Redszone.

_Sir_Charles_
06-05-2013, 09:24 PM
You think not disrupting Cingrani's AAA schedule is more important than the Reds, I don't.

No, I think it's silly to disrupt anybody's schedule until you know something. They hadn't made the decision whether he was going to start today or not. Heck, let's sit the entire AAA club...just in case we may need one of them tomorrow. If you've got enough time to make a determination, sure...organize things and get the right man up here for the job. But sometimes you don't have that much time because you would prefer to let Cueto pitch. I bet they didn't know which way they'd go until yesterday or today.

Blitz Dorsey
06-05-2013, 09:24 PM
It was originally 58. But I got kind of emotional as I typed, so I added the 4.

Consider it amended. 58.

No, I didn't say "too low" ... I said "too high."

You were right the first time. Haha. Keeping pitchers on their scheduled day in Louisville is not even a priority at all if there is a possibility the Reds need help. I can't believe the organization blew this one.

redsfaninbsg
06-05-2013, 09:24 PM
So, what woulda happened when Cingrani got those 2 extra days rest, comes up to the big club and gets crushed because he is off his "routine"?

I'll take my chances over what they brought up.

Blitz Dorsey
06-05-2013, 09:26 PM
Pedro Villarreal. Louisville's #5. Amazing. Reds should have just made it a bullpen night. Since that's how it going to turn out anyway.

Well, in fairness, he's their No. 4 due to Corcino pitching like he should be in A ball.

dubc47834
06-05-2013, 09:26 PM
Then we would have blamed the offense for not scoring enough runs and Dusty for not pulling Cingrani sooner.


Negativity is not just an artform, but a way of life on Redszone.

I know, that's exactly what woulda happened. It would been Dusty's fault as usual.

Tom Servo
06-05-2013, 09:27 PM
Smooth play by Hannahan at 2B.

Kc61
06-05-2013, 09:27 PM
No, I didn't say "too low" ... I said "too high."

You were right the first time. Haha. Keeping pitchers on their scheduled day in Louisville is not even a priority at all if there is a possibility the Reds need help. I can't believe the organization blew this one.

I guess I don't know high from low. But we make the same point, LOL.

Double play, very helpful. Pedro get the next guy, then Dusty start Simon throwing.

Kc61
06-05-2013, 09:28 PM
Smooth play by Hannahan at 2B.

You picking on Jack?

_Sir_Charles_
06-05-2013, 09:29 PM
Disruption of Tony's AAA start is about number 584 on the list of priorities. Tony could rest for two extra days while they figure it out. They should have told him to go to the movies Monday and Tuesday. I would have bought him 3D glasses.

Using this pitcher IS unacceptable. The Rockies pitcher is very beatable and the Reds are now in a dogfight because Tony got to stay on schedule at AAA.

LOL. No, the Reds are in a "dogfight" tonight because 2 very good hitters hit 2 very long homeruns. Any pitcher on our staff was capable of giving up a long ball to either one of those guys.

You guys are making it out like Pedro Villarreal is the regular starter for the Bad News Bears. He is a perfect example of an emergency starter or a AAAA pitcher.

As for your plan for Cingrani...what if Cueto WAS able to go tonight...but after the game Cueto mentioned again that it was bothering him a bit...hold Tony out even longer? You don't just put things on hold in the minors "just in case" something happens in Cincy.

Red in Chicago
06-05-2013, 09:29 PM
does young have a neck?

Billy_Bearcat
06-05-2013, 09:30 PM
I hope we aren't planning our patented "Sit on our first inning runs" plan tonight.

Kc61
06-05-2013, 09:30 PM
LOL. No, the Reds are in a "dogfight" tonight because 2 very good hitters hit 2 very long homeruns. Any pitcher on our staff was capable of giving up a long ball to either one of those guys.

You guys are making it out like Pedro Villarreal is the regular starter for the Bad News Bears. He is a perfect example of an emergency starter or a AAAA pitcher.

As for your plan for Cingrani...what if Cueto WAS able to go tonight...but after the game Cueto mentioned again that it was bothering him a bit...hold Tony out even longer? You don't just put things on hold in the minors "just in case" something happens in Cincy.

Charles, I respect your views, you are a fine poster.

But I disagree with just about every word of the post quoted above.

redsfaninbsg
06-05-2013, 09:31 PM
No, I think it's silly to disrupt anybody's schedule until you know something. They hadn't made the decision whether he was going to start today or not. Heck, let's sit the entire AAA club...just in case we may need one of them tomorrow. If you've got enough time to make a determination, sure...organize things and get the right man up here for the job. But sometimes you don't have that much time because you would prefer to let Cueto pitch. I bet they didn't know which way they'd go until yesterday or today.

You had a week, disrupt his schedule. If its not needed, great, if it is he's pitching tonight. Timing was not the problem, poor management was.

scott91575
06-05-2013, 09:31 PM
LOL. No, the Reds are in a "dogfight" tonight because 2 very good hitters hit 2 very long homeruns. Any pitcher on our staff was capable of giving up a long ball to either one of those guys.

You guys are making it out like Pedro Villarreal is the regular starter for the Bad News Bears. He is a perfect example of an emergency starter or a AAAA pitcher.

As for your plan for Cingrani...what if Cueto WAS able to go tonight...but after the game Cueto mentioned again that it was bothering him a bit...hold Tony out even longer? You don't just put things on hold in the minors "just in case" something happens in Cincy.

He is not a AAAA pitcher. He is barely a AAA pitcher.

Blitz Dorsey
06-05-2013, 09:31 PM
Then we would have blamed the offense for not scoring enough runs and Dusty for not pulling Cingrani sooner.


Negativity is not just an artform, but a way of life on Redszone.

When fans are frustrated about something -- and express reasonable opinions as to why they are frustrated -- why do you feel it's your job to make fun of said fans? We all want the Reds to win. Some get frustrated at things and like to discuss it with other Reds fans. As long as people are speaking intellectually and not just spouting off at the mouth, I don't think Reds fans making fun of other Reds fans is healthy.

When you're frustrated about something, would you want someone making fun of you for being frustrated about it? That might make it even worse, ya know?

If someone posts something like "This guy sucks -- I hate him, what a POS" that's a horrible post right there.

But if someone says "I don't agree with this" and then proceeds to explain why, I don't see why another Reds fan would have a problem with that. Isn't that exactly what message boards are for? A place to discuss topics with your peers? As long as people aren't going overboard and breaking the rules, I just don't get ripping on Reds fans for critiquing certain moves.

kaldaniels
06-05-2013, 09:31 PM
For those listening on the radio, Thom is currently railing on the fact the Rockies aren't wearing hats in the dugout.

_Sir_Charles_
06-05-2013, 09:31 PM
No, I didn't say "too low" ... I said "too high."

You were right the first time. Haha. Keeping pitchers on their scheduled day in Louisville is not even a priority at all if there is a possibility the Reds need help. I can't believe the organization blew this one.

This is what's cracking me up. There is ALWAYS a posibility that the Reds will need help. At any and every position. Far from a blown decision IMO.

Tom Servo
06-05-2013, 09:32 PM
You picking on Jack?
Wasn't sarcastic, it was a nice turn.


Thom talking about players wearing/not wearing a hat on the bench. June 5 and he has officially run out of things to talk about.

Tom Servo
06-05-2013, 09:33 PM
Alright, yank him.

BluegrassRedleg
06-05-2013, 09:33 PM
Thom really going to go on a tirade about guys not wearing a hat in the dugout??? Really???

Those mid-July games with temps 90-plus, damn right I'm taking my hat off as often as possible.

Tom Servo
06-05-2013, 09:34 PM
This had 'bad idea' written all over it.

_Sir_Charles_
06-05-2013, 09:34 PM
Charles, I respect your views, you are a fine poster.

But I disagree with just about every word of the post quoted above.

No problem KC. Absolutely nothing wrong with disagreeing. :beerme:

Norm Chortleton
06-05-2013, 09:35 PM
ZOMG!!!!!!!!!!! Mes has his hat in his hands!!!!1111!!!!

scott91575
06-05-2013, 09:35 PM
Buh bye.

Still defending this guy?

Tom Servo
06-05-2013, 09:35 PM
Yeah, that's on Dusty.

_Sir_Charles_
06-05-2013, 09:35 PM
LOL. Well, he got all of that one. 6-4 Rocks.

dsmith421
06-05-2013, 09:35 PM
What could they possibly have thought was going to happen there?

Let's focus on the positives - the Louisville rotation is on regular rest.

Vottomatic
06-05-2013, 09:35 PM
Hilarious.

Saw that one coming since the first inning on.

Boooooooom!!!!

Pedro Villanotreal. Unreal.

Red Raindog
06-05-2013, 09:35 PM
have we seen enough yet?

dubc47834
06-05-2013, 09:35 PM
When fans are frustrated about something -- and express reasonable opinions as to why they are frustrated -- why do you feel it's your job to make fun of said fans? We all want the Reds to win. Some get frustrated at things and like to discuss it with other Reds fans. As long as people are speaking intellectually and not just spouting off at the mouth, I don't think Reds fans making fun of other Reds fans is healthy.

When you're frustrated about something, would you want someone making fun of you for being frustrated about it? That might make it even worse, ya know?

If someone posts something like "This guy sucks -- I hate him, what a POS" that's a horrible post right there.

But if someone says "I don't agree with this" and then proceeds to explain why, I don't see why another Reds fan would have a problem with that. Isn't that exactly what message boards are for? A place to discuss topics with your peers? As long as people aren't going overboard and breaking the rules, I just don't get ripping on Reds fans for critiquing certain moves.

Some Reds fans critique every decision that is made tho. That's not what a message board is for, specially not This one. And as I type this Cargo BLAST one...lol

redsfaninbsg
06-05-2013, 09:35 PM
This is bad.

Blitz Dorsey
06-05-2013, 09:36 PM
You call up a guy from Triple-A who has a 5+ ERA, this is exactly what you get.

_Sir_Charles_
06-05-2013, 09:36 PM
Logan warming.

Red in Chicago
06-05-2013, 09:36 PM
Yeah, that's on Dusty.

he left him in trying to get the win:eek:

kaldaniels
06-05-2013, 09:36 PM
LOL. Well, he got all of that one. 6-4 Rocks.

Still on the Villareal train for the next time thru the rotation? You are allowed to change your mind.

Stray
06-05-2013, 09:36 PM
Offense is gonna need to get a bunch tonight.

And wow Cargo can hit.

RiverRat13
06-05-2013, 09:36 PM
With an off day tomorrow and a pretty rested pen, there is no excuse for letting this guy face this middle of the order.

ThatPitchIsDunn
06-05-2013, 09:36 PM
The right-handed Phil Dumatrait, apparently.

scott91575
06-05-2013, 09:36 PM
and another hit. Hey, I'm ready and pretty sure I won't do much worse.

texasdave
06-05-2013, 09:37 PM
They actually disrupted Cingrani's routine before he was called up the first time. He made a start where he only went two innings to get some work in. Keeping the kids in the minors on schedule while blowing a game in a pennant race. Nice.

BluegrassRedleg
06-05-2013, 09:37 PM
He just gave in to Cargo. Hate to see that. Just walk the damn guy if you're going to put one on a tee.

Blitz Dorsey
06-05-2013, 09:37 PM
Some Reds fans critique every decision that is made tho. That's not what a message board is for, specially not This one. And as I type this Cargo BLAST one...lol

Yep, hilarious.

WildcatFan
06-05-2013, 09:37 PM
That was four rows from the top by the smokestacks. Would love to see the distance.

alloverjr
06-05-2013, 09:38 PM
Boy, how does this guy make a AAA roster? No location, no velocity and a bit large to boot. Funny stuff. :lol:

_Sir_Charles_
06-05-2013, 09:38 PM
You had a week, disrupt his schedule. If its not needed, great, if it is he's pitching tonight. Timing was not the problem, poor management was.

Agree to disagree. I've said my peace. Yes, Villareal is a AAAA pitcher. Yes he pitched poorly tonight. But no, I still don't think it was the boneheaded decision many are making it out to be.

redsfaninbsg
06-05-2013, 09:38 PM
Poor planning = poor results. This is on Walt, Dusty, and the Reds brass. Flat out inexcusable.

Cedric
06-05-2013, 09:38 PM
Off day tomorrow and the pen is in good shape. Why was he allowed to face Cargo?

Tom Servo
06-05-2013, 09:38 PM
I really would like to know what Dusty's thinking was there. He just walked a guy and gave up a hit with two outs, and already had given up a HR to CarGo.

Red Raindog
06-05-2013, 09:38 PM
Offense is gonna need to get a bunch tonight.

And wow Cargo can hit.

I revise my suggestion that the Reds better score 10 tonight -- let's try 15

redsfaninbsg
06-05-2013, 09:39 PM
Agree to disagree. I've said my peace. Yes, Villareal is a AAAA pitcher. Yes he pitched poorly tonight. But no, I still don't think it was the boneheaded decision many are making it out to be.

Quad A pitchers dominate AAA, that's not the case here.

scott91575
06-05-2013, 09:39 PM
at least Ondrusek is rested. So he should be able to go 3+ innings.

Red Raindog
06-05-2013, 09:39 PM
I really would like to know what Dusty's thinking was there. He just walked a guy and gave up a hit with two outs, and already had given up a HR to CarGo.

beyond my pea brain I guess

Stray
06-05-2013, 09:40 PM
Wait, people are upset that Villareal got called up? It's not like there was an advanced warning here. Why in the world would we pitch a guy on short rest?

texasdave
06-05-2013, 09:40 PM
As long as the Rockies keep sending Garland back out there, there is a chance.

Blitz Dorsey
06-05-2013, 09:40 PM
They actually disrupted Cingrani's routine before he was called up the first time. He made a start where he only went two innings to get some work in. Keeping the kids in the minors on schedule while blowing a game in a pennant race. Nice.

Isn't it great! Maybe this was a last-minute thing with Cueto (or he didn't say anything right after his last start even if he was feeling discomfort). Still, any way you cut it, it stinks we had to use a guy who was sporting such a terrible ERA and WHIP at the Triple-A level as a starter on the MLB level. "You get what you pay for" comes to mind.

kaldaniels
06-05-2013, 09:40 PM
OK...all around organizational suckiness has abounded.

Let's move on and win this game.

RiverRat13
06-05-2013, 09:41 PM
I really would like to know what Dusty's thinking was there. He just walked a guy and gave up a hit with two outs, and already had given up a HR to CarGo.

Whatever you do, don't ask him ;)

scott91575
06-05-2013, 09:41 PM
Well, it's not all bad for Pedro. He might have a new gig as the pitcher in the All Star game home run contest.

realistic
06-05-2013, 09:41 PM
You call up a guy from Triple-A who has a 5+ ERA, this is exactly what you get.

the ERA wasnt as much of a sign as the 13 HR allowed in 2 months vs AAA batters. call him up, put him in GABP vs the Rockies. i just hope the Reds dont get investigated for trying to throw a game.

Blitz Dorsey
06-05-2013, 09:42 PM
Is Villarreal already on a bus back to Louisville, or are they going to let him pretend to be a MLB player for a couple hours longer?

dsmith421
06-05-2013, 09:42 PM
Wait, people are upset that Villareal got called up? It's not like there was an advanced warning here. Why in the world would we pitch a guy on short rest?

They knew Cueto was in discomfort after his start in Pittsburgh. It would have been very easy to have Louisville reshuffle their rotation so the Reds could add a guy that has a chance.

Kc61
06-05-2013, 09:42 PM
Maybe Yorman Rodriguez can pitch a couple of innings. He's on the forty.

alloverjr
06-05-2013, 09:42 PM
Wait, people are upset that Villareal got called up? It's not like there was an advanced warning here. Why in the world would we pitch a guy on short rest?

Shoot, given no other option but the 1 they chose, I give Simon the 1st 3 and call up a bullpenner.

_Sir_Charles_
06-05-2013, 09:42 PM
Buh bye.

Still defending this guy?

LOL. I haven't seen anybody defending this guy. If you thought I was...try re-reading.

realistic
06-05-2013, 09:42 PM
Well, it's not all bad for Pedro. He might have a new gig as the pitcher in the All Star game home run contest.

he should be sent to AA when he leaves Cincinnati. Louisville dont want him anyway id guess

kaldaniels
06-05-2013, 09:43 PM
What facts do we know about when the front office knew about Cueto?

Billy_Bearcat
06-05-2013, 09:44 PM
This had been a great game thread tonight. Every post is pure gold. We may disagree on some things, but there are a ton of clever SOBs on here!

Vottomatic
06-05-2013, 09:44 PM
Is Villarreal already on a bus back to Louisville, or are they going to let him pretend to be a MLB player for a couple hours longer?

They were showcasing him for a possible trade with the Rockies. :D

dubc47834
06-05-2013, 09:44 PM
Let's pick up the slack offense. Need a pick me up!!!

WVRedsFan
06-05-2013, 09:45 PM
I usually don't comment here much anymore, but if there was ever a bad decision made this may have been it. Nothing impressive about him at all and throw him up against the hard hitting Rockies? And Garland now looks like Cy Young. The Reds would have been better off pitching 4 relievers for two innings.

Just DL Cueto until the AS break and bring up Cingrani.

dsmith421
06-05-2013, 09:46 PM
What facts do we know about when the front office knew about Cueto?

Per C. Trent, Cueto felt a twinge during the eighth inning on Friday and immediately informed the training staff.

scott91575
06-05-2013, 09:46 PM
LOL. I haven't seen anybody defending this guy. If you thought I was...try re-reading.

Yeah you were. You called him a AAAA pitcher (untrue) and anybody on the staff could have given up those home runs. What were those points if not defending him?

Cedric
06-05-2013, 09:46 PM
I think the Reds scoring four runs in the first inning is starting to turn into some kind of jinx.

kaldaniels
06-05-2013, 09:46 PM
I will say this.

"Just make it a bullpen game" is easier said than done.

_Sir_Charles_
06-05-2013, 09:47 PM
Still on the Villareal train for the next time thru the rotation? You are allowed to change your mind.

Depends on what the Reds want to do. If they don't want to mess with Cingrani right now (and that a plausible thought), then if they want to bring up someone else, it requires us to release (or DFA) someone, right? Is 1 start worth doing that?

50YrRedsFan
06-05-2013, 09:47 PM
Then we would have blamed the offense for not scoring enough runs and Dusty for not pulling Cingrani sooner.


Negativity is not just an artform, but a way of life on Redszone.

Myself and a lot of fans have waited a long time for a championship. We have made the playoffs what, 3 times since the 1990 Championship? And have been booted out early each time. The management knows we are close, and should be doing everything in its' power to get us there. Get us the players we need NOW. It could be years before we are close again. Giving away games like this is just maddening. How do you not be negative when they pull this crap like tonight, and also bring in bargain basement bench players just to fill out the roster? And now we're going to fry the bullpen before a very important divisional series.

Stray
06-05-2013, 09:48 PM
They knew Cueto was in discomfort after his start in Pittsburgh. It would have been very easy to have Louisville reshuffle their rotation so the Reds could add a guy that has a chance.

I'm sure they believed Cueto could make his start or else it would have been Cingrani. It was just last night that there was a meeting with the medical staff from what I read.

We've already lost Cueto before and we saw who Walt's replacement was, I'm sure that will be the case again when things can get normalized. It would be irresponsible to throw him out there on short rest.

Billy_Bearcat
06-05-2013, 09:48 PM
I usually don't comment here much anymore, but if there was ever a bad decision made this may have been it. Nothing impressive about him at all and throw him up against the hard hitting Rockies? And Garland now looks like Cy Young. The Reds would have been better off pitching 4 relievers for two innings.


Dude, we got our 4 runs. We're good. Oh wait, they have 6!?

Blitz Dorsey
06-05-2013, 09:48 PM
Per C. Trent, Cueto felt a twinge during the eighth inning on Friday and immediately informed the training staff.

Oh man, this makes our organization look like a clown show if it's true. I hope it's not.

Course, maybe "Doc Hollywood" said "Nothing to see here" and moved on. We'll never know.

kaldaniels
06-05-2013, 09:49 PM
Depends on what the Reds want to do. If they don't want to mess with Cingrani right now (and that a plausible thought), then if they want to bring up someone else, it requires us to release (or DFA) someone, right? Is 1 start worth doing that?

Yes. There are expendable guys and/or guys that would not be claimed on the 40 man.

Tom Servo
06-05-2013, 09:49 PM
Myself and a lot of fans have waited a long time for a championship. We have made the playoffs what, 3 times since the 1990 Championship? And have been booted out early each time. The management knows we are close, and should be doing everything in its' power to get us there. Get us the players we need NOW. It could be years before we close again. Giving away games like this is just maddening. How do you not be negative when they pull this crap like tonight, and also bring in bargain basement bench players just to fill out the roster? And now we're going to fry the bullpen before a very important divisional series.Because if every loss, upwards of 70+ of them each year, makes you that miserable, you should probably have chosen another hobby a long time ago.

WildcatFan
06-05-2013, 09:49 PM
IAnd Garland now looks like Cy Young.

Err, four runs in three innings. Cy Young lost a whole mess of games, though, in his career.

RedEye
06-05-2013, 09:50 PM
I really would like to know what Dusty's thinking was there. He just walked a guy and gave up a hit with two outs, and already had given up a HR to CarGo.

Probable response if you did ask ask the question: "Ha. Whatever, man. Maybe you should be managing."

_Sir_Charles_
06-05-2013, 09:50 PM
Quad A pitchers dominate AAA, that's not the case here.

Not really true IMO. Pitchers that dominate AAA are MLB pitchers. IMO AAAA pitchers are guys not good enough for the bigs but are good enough for AAA. Basically AAA is their ceiling.

dubc47834
06-05-2013, 09:51 PM
Probable response if you did ask ask the question: "Ha. Whatever, man. Maybe you should be managing."

That was a deep, thoughtful response!

Vottomatic
06-05-2013, 09:51 PM
Dusty is glad the Rockies are hitting home runs. That way they aren't clogging up the bases.

RedEye
06-05-2013, 09:51 PM
That was a deep, thoughtful response!

Thanks! Oh wait, do you mean my response or Dusty's?

WVRedsFan
06-05-2013, 09:52 PM
Err, four runs in three innings. Cy Young lost a whole mess of games, though, in his career.

None since the first :).

I guess four runs in the first is the Reds Kryptonite.

kaldaniels
06-05-2013, 09:53 PM
Yes. There are expendable guys and/or guys that would not be claimed on the 40 man.

But to clarify, I wouldn't do that, I'd go with Tony.

Stray
06-05-2013, 09:53 PM
Even from the crowd who freaks out every time we get behind here I expected a free pass tonight. It was a bad situation where we had to throw a guy out there who shouldn't be here. Not often I'm surprised when I check a game thread lol.

Anyway, the offense will get us more.

Red Raindog
06-05-2013, 09:53 PM
Because if every loss, upwards of 70+ of them each year, makes you that miserable, you should probably have chosen another hobby a long time ago.

hah -- golf is my hobby -- I'm very comfortable with failure on my part -- it is other's failures that I dislike

:D

Blitz Dorsey
06-05-2013, 09:53 PM
That was a deep, thoughtful response!

The irony here. Oh, the irony.

RedEye
06-05-2013, 09:54 PM
The irony here. Oh, the irony.

It works on so many levels!

TheBigLebowski
06-05-2013, 09:54 PM
Villareal is just not an MLB caliber pitcher. He was awful. He's organizational depth.

We may yet pull out this game but dang...this team is so frustrating. The talent; the potential...it's all there. But we keep getting tripped up by injuries, slumps, bad luck...

Starting to wonder if Cueto's just an eggshell. I never wanted to before but I'm to the point with him that I listen to each and every offer I get if I'm Walt.

If Cueto has to go DL for more than the backloaded 15 days there's no doubt you bring Tony back up.

Jon Garland is tossing garbage up there and we've done what we did on Sunday..what we do almost every Sunday...bring the lumber the first inning and then hibernate. These guys should be tagging him every inning. But I would wager anyone willing that we end this game with less than 6 runs.

So much to love about this team but simultaneously so much about which to be frustrated. And yeah, I went to that length to avoid ending a sentence with a preposition. Attention to detail and commitment to excellence.

Vottomatic
06-05-2013, 09:54 PM
Reds waited until the last minute to announce the pitching change to keep attendance good tonight. D'oh!

dubc47834
06-05-2013, 09:55 PM
The irony here. Oh, the irony.

OK, let me go with this...pot meet kettle!!!

Blitz Dorsey
06-05-2013, 09:57 PM
Anyone else think Cueto looks chubbier every year and that might be contributing to some of these injuries? He doesn't seem like a guy that takes good care of his body. Take a look at a pic of him from a few years ago and it looks like he's gained a ton of weight. You can notice it in his face and really all over.

Vottomatic
06-05-2013, 09:57 PM
Starting to wonder if Cueto's just an eggshell. I never wanted to before but I'm to the point with him that I listen to each and every offer I get if I'm Walt.



I'm glad you said it first.

JC has been injury prone. If he finishes the season healthy, I'm listening to all offers also. Sell high.

Then try and extend Latos and Bailey. And maybe re-sign Arroyo.

But I'd ask for a top pitching prospect in return, among other things.

RedEye
06-05-2013, 09:57 PM
OK, let me go with this...pot meet kettle!!!

I have no idea what you are talking about at this point. If you have a problem with my joke, please spell it out. Thanks.

_Sir_Charles_
06-05-2013, 09:58 PM
Yeah you were. You called him a AAAA pitcher (untrue) and anybody on the staff could have given up those home runs. What were those points if not defending him?

LOL. That was me stating facts IMO. Cargo and Tulo are great hitters. They can hit them for distance off of any pitcher in the bigs. You disagree with that? I called him a AAAA pitcher because that's what I think he is. I don't think he's good enough for the major leagues. He's talented, he's not a scrub, but he's not a MLB'er. To me, that's a AAAA'er. If you want to quibble about what a AAAA'er is, fine. Seeing as how it's something that doesn't really exist...who's to say WHAT the definition is for that.

RedEye
06-05-2013, 09:59 PM
Anyone else think Cueto looks chubbier every year and that might be contributing to some of these injuries? He doesn't seem like a guy that takes good care of his body. Take a look at a pic of him from a few years ago and it looks like he's gained a ton of weight. You can notice it in his face and really all over.

But by all accounts he does great conditioning. For some it genetics. But yeah, whatever the cause, it could be a concern...

dubc47834
06-05-2013, 09:59 PM
I have no idea what you are talking about at this point. If you have a problem with my joke, please spell it out. Thanks.

Wasn't directed at you, was at the other guy! I have no issue with you man...:beerme:

WVRedsFan
06-05-2013, 10:00 PM
I'm glad you said it first.

JC has been injury prone. If he finishes the season healthy, I'm listening to all offers also. Sell high.

Then try and extend Latos and Bailey. And maybe re-sign Arroyo.

But I'd ask for a top pitching prospect in return, among other things.

Please just send him to the American League, but I agree. He has become not dependable and that worries me.

redsfaninbsg
06-05-2013, 10:01 PM
What's up with all the bunting?

nate
06-05-2013, 10:03 PM
Please just send him to the American League, but I agree. He has become not dependable and that worries me.

Wow.

Just...wow.