My All-Star ballot

[RedsfaninMO]

NL
C-Posey
1B-Votto
2B-Phillips
SS-Tulo
3B-Wright
OF-Bruce, Cargo, Gomez (one each from LF, CF and RF)

AL
C-Mauer
1B-Davis
2B-Kendrick
SS-Hardy
3B-Cabrera
OF-Jones, A., Trout, Markakis

Would like to hear how others feel and who you think should be in. For Cardinal fans, I think Matt Carpenter and Carlos Beltran should be backups and will get in. I also think Molina will get in as a backup. I'm not trying to start a back and forth between you guys today, so if you're going to respond I'll respect your opinion but won't call you names as I hope you won't me as well.

I put Bruce over Beltran because of defense. Beltran's defensive metrics are awful. Peralta is a better hitter than Hardy, but Hardy is better all around. Gomez is having a better season than A.M. of the Pirates. I think most of the others are no brainers, although some are close.

[RedsfaninMT]

Not my favorite player but Tats has to be in over Posey, especially if you're going to use defense as a reason to select Bruce over Beltran. Seems like Molina is putting up historically good numbers for a catcher at this point.

[ajswartz888]

Not my favorite player but Tats has to be in over Posey, especially if you're going to use defense as a reason to select Bruce over Beltran. Seems like Molina is putting up historically good numbers for a catcher at this point.
I totally agree. Molina is the choice this year and it's really not even close. Tats? Who is that? Is he related to Matt Latos?

[RedsfaninMT]

I totally agree. Molina is the choice this year and it's really not even close. Tats? Who is that? Is he related to Matt Latos?

Actually, it is close. OPS for Tats is .904 vs. .886 for Posey. Tats "D" is superior, but it wouldn't surprise me to see better numbers from Posey by the break.

[xsteve1]

Votto definitely not looking All Star caliber.

[jlcomo]

NL

C- Molina
1B- Goldschmidt
2B- Phillips
SS- Segura (Tulo if healthy)
3B- Wright
OF- CarGo
OF- Beltran
OF- Choo
SP- Wainwright

AL

C- Mauer
1B- Davis
2B- Cano
SS- Hardy
3B- Miggy
OF- A Jones
OF- Trout
OF- Markakis
DH- Ortiz
SP- Scherzer

[Dwarftree]

National League

1B - Votto, Joey
2B - Phillips, Brandon
SS - Segura, Jean
3B - Wright, David
C - Molina, Yadier
OF - Choo, Shin-Soo
OF - Gomez, Carlos
OF - Marte, Starling


American League

1B - Davis, Chris
2B - Pedroia, Dustin
SS - Peralta, Jhonny
3B - Cabrera, Miguel
C - Santana, Carlos
DH - Ortiz, David
OF - Gordon, Alex
OF - Jones, Adam
OF - Trout, Mike

[HatchMo]

Votto definitely not looking All Star caliber.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5044/5269558397_64406aeb94_z.jpg

[HatchMo]

Make sure to use @mailinator.com to vote without registering new email accounts.

[Falcon7]

Goldschmidt over Votto by a mile!

[757690]

Goldschmidt over Votto by a mile!

They are having identical years so far in terms of production. Almost the same OPS, and the same WAR.

[xsteve1]

They are having identical years so far in terms of production. Almost the same OPS, and the same WAR.

I'll take Goldschmidt's 19 HR and 67 RBI's over Votto's 14 HR and 38 RBI's.

[jlcomo]

I'll take Goldschmidt's 19 HR and 67 RBI's over Votto's 14 HR and 38 RBI's.

Yeah it's not even really close for me. Goldy by a mile this year.

[757690]

I'll take Goldschmidt's 19 HR and 67 RBI's over Votto's 14 HR and 38 RBI's.

I might too, if this were 1983, lol.

[757690]

Yeah it's not even really close for me. Goldy by a mile this year.

I think you need to learn the definition of the word "close", lol, because you clearly are misusing it in that sentence ;)

[Don Cameron]

Goldschmidt is having a much better year this year so far. If Votto beats him out it is because he is the known name. Sure, Votto has a higher OBA... but I pick all stars on BA HR RBI, not walks, WAR, or inflated OPS because of 50+ walks.

The Don has spoken

Don Cameron
Take the canoli

[Don Cameron]

100 Walks > 30 Home Runs

How in the world does that make ANY sense? 100 walks equals 100 times on base, but it does not compute to ANY runs scored OR runs driven in.

If 100 walks is greater than 30 home runs, then Eddie Joost or Lu Blue should have been borderline hall of famers.

Don Cameron
A no nonsense type of guy

[dougdirt]

Goldschmidt is having a much better year this year so far. If Votto beats him out it is because he is the known name. Sure, Votto has a higher OBA... but I pick all stars on BA HR RBI, not walks, WAR, or inflated OPS because of 50+ walks.

The Don has spoken

Don Cameron
Take the canoli

You should vote on All-Stars by picking the best player. That includes EVERYTHING that the player does on the field. Not just BA/HR/RBI. It includes every plate appearance they make, their base running skills (steals/caught stealing/ability to advance bases on hits) and their fielding. Anything that ignores that is missing the boat.

And just for the record, you can't inflate OPS because of walks. Walks are a part of the game and a valuable part at that because they are a non-out and non-outs improve the chances your team can score. You can only win a game if you score. Scoring is vital. Making non-out plate appearances does a lot for that. Don't ignore the non-out because it isn't as sexy as some other preferred non-outs. The walk isn't as valuable as other non-outs, but it is certainly still valuable and to ignore it is to just buried your head in the sand.

[Don Cameron]

Walks are important, to an extent. However, they do impact the OPS because they add to on-base percentage. So, if you take away Votto's 25 more walks, then his OPS is lowered. Furthermore, with 328 plate appearances, Goldschmidt has been on base 125 times this year and has scored 52 runs while knocking in 67 with a .957 ops.

Votto, on the otherhand....with 357 plate appearances, has reached base 153 times, has scored ONLY three more runs than Goldschmidt, and has 29 less rbi's but he has a .956 ops.

So, do you see any flaw in OPS there? Goldschmidt is outperforming Votto.

In the end I guess it really depends on what you look for in a three hitter. I, myself, would like a three hitter to DRIVE in runs. If a man is in scoring position, I would expect my three hitter to expand the zone to get the RBI, and not settle for a walk. But, perhaps Votto does that, which would help to explain a pace of striking out over 160 times this season.

Votto's numbers would be good for a lead ofg or two hitter, but for the three hitter? Come on, man.

But, hey if you guys think a three hitter should not be an rbi man, and walk over 100 times with no real stolen base threat, then who am I to judge.

I, myself, believe that he needs to drive in runs...

Don Cameron
Sabermetricians would argue for Adam Dunn in hall of fame.

[HatchMo]

Walks are important, to an extent. However, they do impact the OPS because they add to on-base percentage. So, if you take away Votto's 25 more walks, then his OPS is lowered. Furthermore, with 328 plate appearances, Goldschmidt has been on base 125 times this year and has scored 52 runs while knocking in 67 with a .957 ops.

Votto, on the otherhand....with 357 plate appearances, has reached base 153 times, has scored ONLY three more runs than Goldschmidt, and has 29 less rbi's but he has a .956 ops.

So, do you see any flaw in OPS there? Goldschmidt is outperforming Votto.

In the end I guess it really depends on what you look for in a three hitter. I, myself, would like a three hitter to DRIVE in runs. If a man is in scoring position, I would expect my three hitter to expand the zone to get the RBI, and not settle for a walk. But, perhaps Votto does that, which would help to explain a pace of striking out over 160 times this season.

Votto's numbers would be good for a lead ofg or two hitter, but for the three hitter? Come on, man.

But, hey if you guys think a three hitter should not be an rbi man, and walk over 100 times with no real stolen base threat, then who am I to judge.

I, myself, believe that he needs to drive in runs...

Don Cameron
Sabermetricians would argue for Adam Dunn in hall of fame.


Would you make this same argument if he batted 2nd?

[Don Cameron]

No, I would not. The two hole hitter is different than the three hitter, as far as type of production expected from him.

Don Cameron
The choice of a new generation

[New York Red]

They are having identical years so far in terms of production. Almost the same OPS, and the same WAR.
Which tells you how insignificant those stats can be at times. Joey is my favorite Red since Junior, but you can't ignore the other numbers. What about Joey's defense this year? Or his BA w/RISP and two outs? I love the guy, and it's great that he is again all-star game worthy, but he isn't at his best lately.

[757690]

I'd probably vote for Goldschmidt over Votto, for a plethora of reasons, but mostly because it would be nice to see some fresh blood in the All-Star game.

However, it's a close call, and it wouldn't be a crime if Votto started.

[jlcomo]

I want my first basemen to be a bonafide power hitter not a virtual 2 hole hitter that specializes in getting on base. Goldschmidt all day for me.

Plus there isn't anybody that can convince me 100 walks is better than 30 home runs.

[757690]

I want my first basemen to be a bonafide power hitter not a virtual 2 hole hitter that specializes in getting on base. Goldschmidt all day for me.

Plus there isn't anybody that can convince me 100 walks is better than 30 home runs.

30 HR's are worth about the same as 100 walks.

According to Tom Tango, a walk is worth .35 runs and a HR is worth 1.42 runs. That means 100 walks are worth 35 runs and 30 HR's are worth 42 runs. That's assuming they are accomplished in the same situations. That is, the same number times with no runners on base, with one runner one, with two on, and with the bases loaded. So it is possible for 100 walks to be worth more than 30 HR's if most of the HR's are solo shots. And the reverse is true.

http://www.tangotiger.net/lwbymob.htm

[Don Cameron]

You can take the 100 walks, and I will take the 30 home runs. So, 10 walks = 3 home runs... that is just DUMB.

Don Cameron
Numbers do lie

[Wonderful Monds]

Goldschmidt is having a much better year this year so far. If Votto beats him out it is because he is the known name. Sure, Votto has a higher OBA... but I pick all stars on BA HR RBI, not walks, WAR, or inflated OPS because of 50+ walks.

The Don has spoken

Don Cameron
Take the canoli

I thought we were past this stuff.