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Tom Servo
06-26-2013, 12:37 PM
Reds lineup

Choo CF
Robinson LF
Votto 1B
Bruce RF
Frazier 3B
Paul DH
Cozart SS
Mesoraco C
Izturis 2B
Bailey P

A's lineup
Young CF
Smith DH
Lowrie SS
Cespedes LF
Moss 1B
Donaldson 3B
Reddick RF
Vogt C
Sogard 2B
Griffin P

RedTeamGo!
06-26-2013, 01:05 PM
Excellent lineup! love the fact Dusty didn't feel obligated to start Heisey

Kc61
06-26-2013, 01:22 PM
Mes, unusually this year, catching Bailey.

Likely just a one time thing, day game after a night game.

Kc61
06-26-2013, 01:29 PM
With switch hitters Izturis and Robinson, the Reds today have six batters who can hit left handed against the RHP.

The non-use of Heisey against the righty is interesting because it shows Dusty is skeptical of Chris v righties right now. Early in his career Heisey hit righties better than lefties, but not recently.

It could also be that Heisey is sitting the day game after night game given his recent injury. Caution.

But Heisey was the DH last night and presumably could DH today if Dusty really wanted him to.

Instead we have Paul as a DH, not a bad spot for him, and Robinson unusually playing v a RHP.

oregonred
06-26-2013, 01:36 PM
Good lineup from a sea of mediocre choices in LF, 2B and DH

cumberlandreds
06-26-2013, 02:08 PM
Good lineup from a sea of mediocre choices in LF, 2B and DH

I'd rather have Henry Rodriquez at 2nd than Izturis. Otherwise this lineup gets my stamp of approval considering who is available. :)
Kinda of a big game today. Lose this one and the Reds are facing a disasterous road trip square in the face with Texas looming this weekend.

Kc61
06-26-2013, 03:34 PM
I'd rather have Henry Rodriquez at 2nd than Izturis. Otherwise this lineup gets my stamp of approval considering who is available. :)
Kinda of a big game today. Lose this one and the Reds are facing a disasterous road trip square in the face with Texas looming this weekend.

Izturis had as many hits last night as Rodriguez has in his MLB career.

And Rodriguez isn't a particularly good defender and is not really a second baseman.

And Rodriguez has a .644 OPS at AAA this year.

So, I'd rather go with Izturis.

Big Klu
06-26-2013, 03:37 PM
I'd rather have Henry Rodriquez at 2nd than Izturis. Otherwise this lineup gets my stamp of approval considering who is available. :)
Kinda of a big game today. Lose this one and the Reds are facing a disasterous road trip square in the face with Texas looming this weekend.

Likely a combination of rewarding Izturis for his three-hit night last night and the fact that Cesar is a much better defensive player than Rodriguez. Henry hasn't exactly been lighting it up at Louisville this year, either

Red Raindog
06-26-2013, 03:38 PM
Choo gets on without getting a bruise

Kc61
06-26-2013, 03:39 PM
Likely a combination of rewarding Izturis for his three-hit night last night and the fact that Cesar is a much better defensive player than Rodriguez. Henry hasn't exactly been lighting it up at Louisville this year, either

HRod is up for two games while Phillips is away. I'm sure nobody in the Reds' organization intended for him to start either of his two games with the team.

Choo walks to lead it off.

Kc61
06-26-2013, 03:43 PM
Two on, Votto walks. One out.

Men on base for Bruce.

Kc61
06-26-2013, 03:44 PM
Bruce is 4 for 32 with no homers against the AL.

Make it 4 for 33, strikes out.

Red Raindog
06-26-2013, 03:44 PM
Bruce back to bum status --

ProfessorTofty
06-26-2013, 03:44 PM
Nice double steal there! Come on, let's please get something now!

ProfessorTofty
06-26-2013, 03:46 PM
This is becoming an annoying pattern.

Red Raindog
06-26-2013, 03:46 PM
oh well -- it looked like a good start

Kc61
06-26-2013, 03:47 PM
Frazier called out on strikes. Two on, a double steal, but two strikeouts end the inning.

Which leads me to a question I've been meaning to ask.

Are the Reds hitters succumbing to the pressure of games against good teams?

50YrRedsFan
06-26-2013, 03:47 PM
The Reds futility with RISP continues...........

Big Klu
06-26-2013, 03:47 PM
HRod is up for two games while Phillips is away. I'm sure nobody in the Reds' organization intended for him to start either of his two games with the team.

Choo walks to lead it off.

Exactly. He was called up to be additional depth off the bench at 2B while Phillips is away and Izturis fills in.

New York Red
06-26-2013, 03:49 PM
Getting RISP with two outs is a curse for this team.

ProfessorTofty
06-26-2013, 03:51 PM
K!

Kc61
06-26-2013, 03:51 PM
Getting RISP with two outs is a curse for this team.

Nobody wants to answer my question, maybe I'll start a thread.

Are the Reds hitters succumbing to the big game pressure of playing good teams?

Tom Servo
06-26-2013, 03:53 PM
Nobody wants to answer my question, maybe I'll start a thread.

Are the Reds hitters succumbing to the big game pressure of playing good teams?
No, they are professionals.

50YrRedsFan
06-26-2013, 03:56 PM
Nobody wants to answer my question, maybe I'll start a thread.

Are the Reds hitters succumbing to the big game pressure of playing good teams?

Pressure? I don't know. Except for a few, our position players are just being out hit and out played by the opposition.

dsmith421
06-26-2013, 04:01 PM
I don't think it has anything to do with pressure. It has to do with the fact that the team has struggled with injuries and has insufficient depth to cope.

The fact that Cozart and Hanigan have been ciphers and Frazier is mired in a sophomore slump complicates that calculus.

Throw in a couple of ill-timed bullpen meltdowns and there you have it.

Even with all that, they're still in pretty good shape to make the postseason. Things could be a lot worse.

OesterPoster
06-26-2013, 04:01 PM
Without looking up his swing % in the strike zone and outside the zone...I'm guessing that Frazier has some funky numbers. Maybe it just seems that way, but I swear he takes a lot of pitches in the zone, then swings at a ton of stuff out of the zone.

ProfessorTofty
06-26-2013, 04:03 PM
Izturis almost goes yard. But not quite.

50YrRedsFan
06-26-2013, 04:06 PM
Nobody wants to answer my question, maybe I'll start a thread.

Are the Reds hitters succumbing to the big game pressure of playing good teams?

Our numbers 6-9 of our batting order are statistically amongst the worst offensively in baseball. Choo and Phillips have been in a steady decline for weeks. Our bench hitters started well, but have been automatic outs for weeks.

Bottom line is, IMO, except for a few, our offensive players are just average to way below average hitters.

Red Raindog
06-26-2013, 04:08 PM
Nobody wants to answer my question, maybe I'll start a thread.

Are the Reds hitters succumbing to the big game pressure of playing good teams?

:dunno:

New York Red
06-26-2013, 04:08 PM
Our numbers 6-9 of our batting order are statistically amongst the worst offensively in baseball. Choo and Phillips have been in a steady decline for weeks. Our bench hitters started well, but have been automatic outs for weeks.

Bottom line is, IMO, except for a few, our offensive players are just average to way below average ball players.
I think Kc was referring to the Reds BA w/RISP and two outs. It's third worst in the NL and dropping fast. Even Joey has struggled bigtime in those situations. I believe he's hitting under .150 now. It's definitely been an issue for this team.

Red Raindog
06-26-2013, 04:09 PM
Our numbers 6-9 of our batting order are statistically amongst the worst offensively in baseball. Choo and Phillips have been in a steady decline for weeks. Our bench hitters started well, but have been automatic outs for weeks.

Bottom line is, IMO, except for a few, our offensive players are just average to way below average hitters.

better than having them bat #1 & #2 like a lot of last year!

ProfessorTofty
06-26-2013, 04:10 PM
No score through two.

Red Raindog
06-26-2013, 04:10 PM
BP with the nice catch -- oh wait

VR
06-26-2013, 04:15 PM
5 pitch 3rd.

redsfaninbsg
06-26-2013, 04:15 PM
The Reds swung at every pitch that inning.

New York Red
06-26-2013, 04:17 PM
That must have been a quick inning for the Reds. I switched over to the Aaron Hernandez coverage and switched back maybe a minute later?

Red Raindog
06-26-2013, 04:19 PM
That must have been a quick inning for the Reds. I switched over to the Aaron Hernandez coverage and switched back maybe a minute later?

yes -- could not take a pitch

OesterPoster
06-26-2013, 04:20 PM
yes -- could not take a pitch

Dan O'Brien just shed a tear. :(

Kc61
06-26-2013, 04:21 PM
I think Kc was referring to the Reds BA w/RISP and two outs. It's third worst in the NL and dropping fast. Even Joey has struggled bigtime in those situations. I believe he's hitting under .150 now. It's definitely been an issue for this team.

I did start a thread on this.

I agree that the Reds are an injury depleted team and also have some deficiencies in the offense and the bullpen. And guys like Choo have slumped.

But I do think there is an element of succumbing to pressure which traces back before this season, I'm referring to the Giants playoff series.

The offense in particular seems to press in bigger games. Also, the team lacks contact hitters, still has a lot of guys swinging for the fences. A low BA team.

But I don't think the answer is that obvious, the Reds absolutely destroy bad teams but are 15-25 against teams with a .500 record or better.

oregonred
06-26-2013, 04:21 PM
Our numbers 6-9 of our batting order are statistically amongst the worst offensively in baseball. Choo and Phillips have been in a steady decline for weeks. Our bench hitters started well, but have been automatic outs for weeks.

Bottom line is, IMO, except for a few, our offensive players are just average to way below average hitters.

Down the right track. It's really been the #2, #7 and #8 slots (minus Mes) that have been killers. Depth is also a major factor in addition to not slotting enough AB's to Devin.

Think about this, the Reds have over 440AB's this season of sub .525 OPS and sub .250 OBP in Lutz, Izturis, Hannigan, Hanrahan, Heisey. That's averaging about 6AB's a game. This is due to Heisey way underperforming, Hannigan's regression and way too many unplanned AB's for the rest.

Cozart is at ~.700 OPS taking out April. While not helping the cause, he's not a killer especially at SS when he is placed deep in the order where he belongs.

Red Raindog
06-26-2013, 04:22 PM
Bailey has the breaking balls working -- sweet

Kc61
06-26-2013, 04:23 PM
Down the right track. It's really been the #2, #7 and #8 slots (minus Mes) that have been killers. Depth is also a major factor in addition to not slotting enough AB's to Devin.

Think about this, the Reds have over 440AB's this season of sub .525 OPS and sub .250 OBP in Lutz, Izturis, Hannigan, Hanrahan, Heisey. That's averaging about 6AB's a game. This is due to Heisey way underperforming, Hannigan's regression and way too many unplanned AB's for the rest.

Cozart is at ~.700 OPS taking out April. While not helping the cause, he's not a killer especially at SS when he is placed deep in the order where he belongs.

Ok, but does all this account for the huge disparity in record between opponents with .500 or better records and those below .500?

Reds have some lineup problems and bullpen problems. But I don't think any other team in baseball has such a disparity in its record against the two categories of opponents.

Red Raindog
06-26-2013, 04:23 PM
I did start a thread on this.

I agree that the Reds are an injury depleted team and also have some deficiencies in the offense and the bullpen. And guys like Choo have slumped.

But I do think there is an element of succumbing to pressure which traces back before this season, I'm referring to the Giants playoff series.

The offense in particular seems to press in bigger games. Also, the team lacks contact hitters, still has a lot of guys swinging for the fences. A low BA team.

But I don't think the answer is that obvious, the Reds absolutely destroy bad teams but are 15-25 against teams with a .500 record or better.

I think few are good situational hitters --- going to right side when it is called for seems to rarely happen

Red Raindog
06-26-2013, 04:25 PM
Bruce still has his bum status

Red Raindog
06-26-2013, 04:26 PM
nice use of the shades there by Donaldson

redsfaninbsg
06-26-2013, 04:33 PM
Trouble brewing here.

Red Raindog
06-26-2013, 04:36 PM
Now I've seen about everything -- Mes fumbles the ball away into a run scoring

Red Raindog
06-26-2013, 04:36 PM
Bailey in full blown melt down now

4-0

ProfessorTofty
06-26-2013, 04:37 PM
And now a three-run blast to clear the bases. Here we go again.

redsfaninbsg
06-26-2013, 04:37 PM
With the way this offense is going, that might be the ole ball game.

Blitz Dorsey
06-26-2013, 04:37 PM
Bailey has been a big disappointment this year.

leeech86
06-26-2013, 04:37 PM
so frustrating. Can the Reds score 5 runs? I'm not sure anymore...

Red Raindog
06-26-2013, 04:38 PM
Yikes -- Aaron Hernandez has been charged with murder

coachpipe
06-26-2013, 04:38 PM
Homer has looked pretty damn bad lately

Red Raindog
06-26-2013, 04:38 PM
so frustrating. Can the Reds score 5 runs? I'm not sure anymore...

sure -- oh wait -- you mean in one game?

;)

oneupper
06-26-2013, 04:39 PM
When is this road trip over? This is painful.

Kc61
06-26-2013, 04:39 PM
Now I've seen about everything -- Mes fumbles the ball away into a run scoring

Why are you surprised? He drops the ball all the time. He is not a sure handed catcher. It's a problem.

50YrRedsFan
06-26-2013, 04:39 PM
And now a three-run blast to clear the bases. Here we go again.

When was the last time a Red hit a 3 run HR?

757690
06-26-2013, 04:40 PM
The good news is that this makes the decision on which starters to sign long term an easy one ;)

50YrRedsFan
06-26-2013, 04:41 PM
The good news is that this makes the decision on which starters to sign long term an easy one ;)

Could be

50YrRedsFan
06-26-2013, 04:42 PM
sure -- oh wait -- you mean in one game?

;)

Not looking like it today. We don't even have a hit yet.

Red Raindog
06-26-2013, 04:42 PM
Why are you surprised? He drops the ball all the time. He is not a sure handed catcher. It's a problem.

But I think he had it in his hand this time

Tom Servo
06-26-2013, 04:42 PM
When was the last time a Red hit a 3 run HR?
lol


Every team in baseball is good, except for the Reds. Is that what some of you guys want to hear?

Reds/Flyers Fan
06-26-2013, 04:43 PM
Pitt up on mariners 2-0 in the 4th and the cards get another vs the AAAstros. Not good.

Kc61
06-26-2013, 04:44 PM
I blame the offense.

You had to expect some of these starters to come back to earth. Arroyo must notably.

Reds are just not a very consistent offensive team. They had better improve soon because the Cards and Bucs aren't losing that much and the Reds could be 7 games out by next week.

Blitz Dorsey
06-26-2013, 04:46 PM
Hey, at least it's a really good pitcher shutting us down today.

Wait, never mind.

757690
06-26-2013, 04:46 PM
Big ballparks like this one in Oakland, (whatever it's officially called these days) are kryptonite to The Reds offense. The offense was built for GABP.

Blitz Dorsey
06-26-2013, 04:48 PM
Mes with a "hit." (Any good OF would have caught that ball.)

klw
06-26-2013, 04:48 PM
Mes with a "hit." (Any good OF would have caught that ball.)

And there I was about to post that Griffin has a no no going.

Blitz Dorsey
06-26-2013, 04:48 PM
I'm sure Izturis will hit into a DP here.

Kc61
06-26-2013, 04:49 PM
I'm sure Izturis will hit into a DP here.

Nice.

Blitz Dorsey
06-26-2013, 04:49 PM
As I said. GIDP.

Unbelievable how bad we look recently.

Red Raindog
06-26-2013, 04:49 PM
When was the last time a Red hit a 3 run HR?

June 11 vs Cubs -- X Paul

50YrRedsFan
06-26-2013, 04:50 PM
It's not a good day in Reds Country.

Blitz Dorsey
06-26-2013, 04:50 PM
Izturis needs to retire. Yesterday.

klw
06-26-2013, 04:50 PM
I'm sure Izturis will hit into a DP here.

I have to leave for a bit. How will the rest of the game go?

Always Red
06-26-2013, 04:51 PM
Big ballparks like this one in Oakland, (whatever it's officially called these days) are kryptonite to The Reds offense. The offense was built for GABP.

Not really, this offense was built around defense first, I believe.

The offense we saw from 2000-2008, the one who could hit bombs all day long but could not play the field, was built for GABP. Just my opinion.

50YrRedsFan
06-26-2013, 04:51 PM
June 11 vs Cubs -- X Paul

That must have been the 12-2 game. By the way, that is the last game we scored more than 5 runs.

Tom Servo
06-26-2013, 04:52 PM
The offense we saw from 2000-2008, the one who could hit bombs all day long but could not play the field, was built for GABP. Just my opinion.
You're right, but how did that work out for us?

Always Red
06-26-2013, 04:54 PM
You're right, but how did that work out for us?

Pitching, pitching, pitching, pitching, pitching.

Blitz Dorsey
06-26-2013, 04:54 PM
I have to leave for a bit. How will the rest of the game go?

My prediction?

Pain.

(Unfortunately, for us.)

Blitz Dorsey
06-26-2013, 05:01 PM
One "hit" through 5.1 innings against AJ Griffin. Amazing.

Blitz Dorsey
06-26-2013, 05:02 PM
At least Aaron Hernandez is having a worse day than us.

Todd Gack
06-26-2013, 05:03 PM
Homer Bailey currently has a 7.19 ERA against current playoff teams he's pitched against this year. (STL/PIT/ATL/OAK) in over 25 IP.

Blitz Dorsey
06-26-2013, 05:04 PM
I just can't watch this anymore. Too frustrating. Not worth it.

When we're off ... wow are we off.

Tom Servo
06-26-2013, 05:04 PM
Homer Bailey currently has a 7.19 ERA against current playoff teams he's pitched against this year. (STL/PIT/ATL/OAK) in over 25 IP.
And he absolutely shut down the Giants down in Game 3 in the actual playoffs last year in what should have been a series clinching win.

Blitz Dorsey
06-26-2013, 05:06 PM
And he absolutely shut down the Giants down in Game 3 in the actual playoffs last year in what should have been a series clinching win.

Ludwick was really good for us last year too. He was talking about this year. It's certainly alarming that Bailey struggles every time out against good competition this season (so far at least).

Todd Gack
06-26-2013, 05:07 PM
And he absolutely shut down the Giants down in Game 3 in the actual playoffs last year in what should have been a series clinching win.

And this has to do with this year how. . . . .?

Red Raindog
06-26-2013, 05:08 PM
That must have been the 12-2 game. By the way, that is the last game we scored more than 5 runs.

yup

Red Raindog
06-26-2013, 05:09 PM
At least Aaron Hernandez is having a worse day than us.

He casually spit while being put in the cruiser -- he might not think it's a bad day

dsmith421
06-26-2013, 05:09 PM
Reds in June: .239 .305 .390 - 695
85 runs in 23 games, not including today. 3.7 R/g.
BABIP is low (.276) but I'm not even sure regression to .290 or whatever it is for the season is enough to fix that line.

Tom Servo
06-26-2013, 05:10 PM
Ludwick was really good for us last year too. He was talking about this year. It's certainly alarming that Bailey struggles every time out against good competition this season (so far at least).
It sucks anytime one of your pitchers doesn't have a good start, but alarming? Not so much.



And this has to do with this year how. . . . .?
Because the actual playoffs are what matters and not the imaginary ones in your head...?

Todd Gack
06-26-2013, 05:13 PM
It sucks anytime one of your pitchers doesn't have a good start, but alarming? Not so much.



Because the actual playoffs are what matters and not the imaginary ones in your head...?

Oh, ok.

But I mean, he's had only 1 QS against those teams and that was his last outing. THat's a bit concerning to me when you're pitching that poorly against teams you'll play this year in October.

Well, assuming this currently pretending team gets there.

Tom Servo
06-26-2013, 05:14 PM
Ugh, Cozart.

Red Raindog
06-26-2013, 05:14 PM
Is it a team wide lack of focus?

Cozart drops a DP toss

Blitz Dorsey
06-26-2013, 05:14 PM
It sucks anytime one of your pitchers doesn't have a good start, but alarming? Not so much.

You are right. If he merely had "a" bad start, there would be no reason for alarm. However, as was posted, Bailey is struggling every time he faces quality competition this season. This does not seem to be an isolated incident; more like a pattern.

And he's not pitching awful today. He just had one really bad inning. I get that. I still think Bailey will be fine this season, but he's been a big disappointment through the first half of the season. I was expecting a lot more.

Red Raindog
06-26-2013, 05:19 PM
You are right. If he merely had "a" bad start, there would be no reason for alarm. However, as was posted, Bailey is struggling every time he faces quality competition this season. This does not seem to be an isolated incident; more like a pattern.

And he's not pitching awful today. He just had one really bad inning. I get that. I still think Bailey will be fine this season, but he's been a big disappointment through the first half of the season. I was expecting a lot more.

I expect a hole in one on every par three and birdies or eagles everywhere else -- but my expectations rarely meet my reality ---

Homer's numbers this year stack up nicely --- he has pitched far better than his W/L record shows -- I'd be happy to see him pitch with the Reds for several more years

Bruce -- in complete bum mode today

_Sir_Charles_
06-26-2013, 05:19 PM
Okay, I'm here now...let the Reds scoring commence.

Red Raindog
06-26-2013, 05:20 PM
Okay, I'm here now...let the Reds scoring commence.

You've missed another offensive no show for the team --- I'm counting on you to turn it around

_Sir_Charles_
06-26-2013, 05:21 PM
Almost. :O) 2 bagger off the wall by Paul.

So far I'm off to a good start.

Red Raindog
06-26-2013, 05:21 PM
2 outs RISP -- can we expect good results?

Red Raindog
06-26-2013, 05:23 PM
No reason to throw strikes ---

_Sir_Charles_
06-26-2013, 05:23 PM
You've missed another offensive no show for the team --- I'm counting on you to turn it around

Bad offense, or just a really good pitching job? I'm seeing lots of off-speed stuff and breaking balls thus far.

Darn. K to end the inning.

Stray
06-26-2013, 05:25 PM
We are darn good at stranding runners.

Sent from my Galaxy S3 using Tapatalk

50YrRedsFan
06-26-2013, 05:26 PM
4 base runners in 7 innings...it's like the Reds have given up.

_Sir_Charles_
06-26-2013, 05:26 PM
We are darn good at stranding runners.

Sent from my Galaxy S3 using Tapatalk

Looking at the box score...I'm not seeing many runners to strand.

Cingrani in for Homer.

Tom Servo
06-26-2013, 05:27 PM
Not crazy about using Cingrani here, but I guess you kind of have to since the low guys on the totem pole (Parra, Partch) were used up yesterday.

VR
06-26-2013, 05:28 PM
I wonder who's going to call the player's only meeting before they leave town. Henry Rodriquez?

Stray
06-26-2013, 05:28 PM
Looking at the box score...I'm not seeing many runners to strand.

Cingrani in for Homer.

Still annoyed at yesterday's game lol

Sent from my Galaxy S3 using Tapatalk

Tom Servo
06-26-2013, 05:29 PM
I wonder who's going to call the player's only meeting before they leave town. Henry Rodriquez?
Dusty is going to get rid of Bruce and Votto's massage chairs (equiped with a holster of fancy coffee).

_Sir_Charles_
06-26-2013, 05:29 PM
comebacker to Tony. 1 down.

I really like how Cingrani follows through. He ends up in REALLY good fielding position. Much better position than most of our starters (many are good fielders, but don't have the greatest of ending positions).

Red Raindog
06-26-2013, 05:29 PM
Bad offense, or just a really good pitching job? I'm seeing lots of off-speed stuff and breaking balls thus far.

Darn. K to end the inning.

A little of everything --- not shown much patience - not adjusted to his off speed stuff -- Griffiin has done the job

_Sir_Charles_
06-26-2013, 05:30 PM
Still annoyed at yesterday's game lol

Sent from my Galaxy S3 using Tapatalk

I missed yesterday's game. Probably a blessing in disguise.

RedsBrick
06-26-2013, 05:30 PM
Is it a team wide lack of focus?

Cozart drops a DP toss

Up to and including the field manager. Player's managers tend to lack a certain discipline....and then it goes unchecked....and then you get a team with good payers who, seemingly, play with a lack of a sense of urgency.

Kc61
06-26-2013, 05:30 PM
Not crazy about using Cingrani here, but I guess you kind of have to since the low guys on the totem pole (Parra, Partch) were used up yesterday.

Cingrani needs the work, and Dusty really shouldn't cave in a four run game.

I notice that Lecure hasn't pitched much lately either.

There's a nice hit to the opposite field, lefty against lefty. Sogard, don't know his name. Reds don't hit that way, Choo did in April, they don't slap hits to the opposite field.

_Sir_Charles_
06-26-2013, 05:30 PM
Single to left. Derrick's foot slipped out from under him. Ends up on 2nd.

Wow...they gave him a double on that. That slip should've been enough for an E on Robinson IMO.

New York Red
06-26-2013, 05:32 PM
Looking at the box score...I'm not seeing many runners to strand.
They had two on and one out in the first, and a batter later had runners at 2nd and 3rd with 2 out. They've done nothing since, but stranding runners, and especially RISP w/2 outs, has been a major issue for this team the entire season. I started a thread about it a few weeks ago and was basically laughed at. Any of those laughing ready to admit it's a problem yet?

oregonred
06-26-2013, 05:32 PM
Third complete clunker of this five game roadtrip. That's the dissappointing thing, even when losing most of the year they've rarely been uncompetitive for multiple games.

Reds looking at 1-5 in Bailey's last six starts including complete duds vs. Cleveland and Milwaukee. Statistically this one won't be horrid, but going down 4-0 early with this current offense qualifies as one.

Kc61
06-26-2013, 05:32 PM
I enjoy when Cingrani pitches. Young talented guy, potentially good for the future. Interesting to watch.

Rest of the team is impossible to watch. Maybe they play Milwaukee at GABP soon, that should be good.

_Sir_Charles_
06-26-2013, 05:33 PM
2 down after a punchout of Young.

New York Red
06-26-2013, 05:34 PM
Not crazy about using Cingrani here, but I guess you kind of have to since the low guys on the totem pole (Parra, Partch) were used up yesterday.
I'm not crazy about it either, but at least Dusty isn't giving up. That's something.

oregonred
06-26-2013, 05:34 PM
I wonder who's going to call the player's only meeting before they leave town. Henry Rodriquez?

I think Sam Lecure's twitter account should call the meeting

_Sir_Charles_
06-26-2013, 05:35 PM
Double into the LC gap. 5-0 Oakland. Not a bad pitch really. Low in the zone but caught a bit too much of the plate.

Simon warming.

Red Raindog
06-26-2013, 05:36 PM
Cingrani gives up a run -- has he thrown anything except fastballs?

50YrRedsFan
06-26-2013, 05:36 PM
A little of everything --- not shown much patience - not adjusted to his off speed stuff -- Griffiin has done the job

I think you give too much credit to the opposing pitcher. Our hitting is bad, and no signs of getting better.

holster10
06-26-2013, 05:37 PM
cingrani STILL believes he can get everybody out with one pitch.

Kc61
06-26-2013, 05:37 PM
Just something about the mindset of this team. They don't seem to respond to the challenge. There are injuries and deficiencies, but the team seems dead out there.

I mean, how can this team be whitewashed by this Griffin guy? And last night constantly leaving bases loaded, two men on.

Reds just seem to be a limited team. They can win on the backs of great starting pitching, but that's it.

_Sir_Charles_
06-26-2013, 05:37 PM
Cingrani gives up a run -- has he thrown anything except fastballs?

I've seen a couple sliders. 2 or 3 I think.

WVRedsFan
06-26-2013, 05:38 PM
Prepare for the 7 game deficit after this road trip is over. I never would have guessed it.

Red Raindog
06-26-2013, 05:38 PM
I think you give too much credit to the opposing pitcher. Our hitting is bad, and no signs of getting better.

I did say we showed little patience or adjusting -- but I will say their pitcher has got the job done

he's at 87 pitches thru 7

Kc61
06-26-2013, 05:38 PM
Strikeout ends the inning. Cingrani got him on a curve.

Yes, a curve.

Red Raindog
06-26-2013, 05:38 PM
I've seen a couple sliders. 2 or 3 I think.

missed them

_Sir_Charles_
06-26-2013, 05:39 PM
Pretty slider there for the K. But one more comes across to make it 5-0 Oakland.

Time to light a fire under this team Dusty. Let's go boys!!!

~edit~ D'oh. CLEARLY a curveball. Just got in the slider mindset I guess.

Kc61
06-26-2013, 05:39 PM
LOL, with the Reds losing all these games, Cingrani still is able to work on those secondary pitches. See, it all worked out fine.

50YrRedsFan
06-26-2013, 05:40 PM
I was at the Saturday and Sunday games in AZ and saw Bob Castellini there. He has a home in AZ. I hope he is on this trip to Oak and Tex and sees we need offensive and bullpen help.

Red Raindog
06-26-2013, 05:42 PM
This looks like a team in a hurry to go to Texas -- must want to be in the heat

_Sir_Charles_
06-26-2013, 05:42 PM
Hmmmmm...4 pitches...2 down. Not exactly making him work.

NeilHamburger
06-26-2013, 05:42 PM
There isn't any help out there. There are tons of teams that want help, but there have been 0 significant trades. Reds are stuck with what they have unless they grossly overpay.

_Sir_Charles_
06-26-2013, 05:44 PM
LOL. That was a bit away from being an eephus. 1-2-3 go the Reds.

Kc61
06-26-2013, 05:44 PM
Man, somebody really figured out Choo. He's not nearly the same hitter as he was in April.

I like the walks and HBP, but wow this guy has fallen off the map.

New York Red
06-26-2013, 05:44 PM
Just something about the mindset of this team. They don't seem to respond to the challenge. There are injuries and deficiencies, but the team seems dead out there.

I mean, how can this team be whitewashed by this Griffin guy? And last night constantly leaving bases loaded, two men on.

Reds just seem to be a limited team. They can win on the backs of great starting pitching, but that's it.
I've been saying it for a couple months now; I just don't see a lot of leadership on this team, on the field or in the dugout.

Kc61
06-26-2013, 05:46 PM
There isn't any help out there. There are tons of teams that want help, but there have been 0 significant trades. Reds are stuck with what they have unless they grossly overpay.

Front office has to acquire some players or they should take advantage of the market, trade Choo, trade Arroyo, both expiring contracts. Restock the farm.

I don't view sitting still as much of an option.

oregonred
06-26-2013, 05:47 PM
The bullpen help is Broxton and Marshall back from the DL. + Cingrani. Without a healthy Marshall and Broxton this team will struggle. More of concern is the recent starting pitching cracks which may be from pressing from the poor offense and bullpen issues.

Like I said I would take 3.5 back at the end of the tough July stretch in a second with all the injuries and the overall pitching regression over the past couple of weeks.

WVRedsFan
06-26-2013, 05:47 PM
Is it Simon or Seemoan? I've heard it both ways, last from Dusty.

Red Raindog
06-26-2013, 05:47 PM
When things are going poorly I think teams tend look listless -- I just wish I saw some fire in someone's eyes.

New York Red
06-26-2013, 05:48 PM
Hmmmmm...4 pitches...2 down. Not exactly making him work.
He had a 5-pitch inning earlier in the game. This is a pitcher who hadn't won a game in almost a month, but he might as well be Walter Johnson today.

_Sir_Charles_
06-26-2013, 05:48 PM
Front office has to acquire some players or they should take advantage of the market, trade Choo, trade Arroyo, both expiring contracts. Restock the farm.

I don't view sitting still as much of an option.

Wow. Big thumbs down from me. :thumbdown:

_Sir_Charles_
06-26-2013, 05:48 PM
He had a 5-pitch inning earlier in the game. This is a pitcher who hadn't won a game in over a month, but he might as well be Walter Johnson today.

Wait....HE?!? That was a dude? ;)

_Sir_Charles_
06-26-2013, 05:49 PM
Is it Simon or Seemoan? I've heard it both ways, last from Dusty.

He changed the way he preferred it pronounced. It's now Simon. It was Seemoan last year and before.

_Sir_Charles_
06-26-2013, 05:50 PM
2 out walk to Donaldson.

Red Raindog
06-26-2013, 05:50 PM
He had a 5-pitch inning earlier in the game. This is a pitcher who hadn't won a game in almost a month, but he might as well be Walter Johnson today.

Walter threw harder -- I am old

WVRedsFan
06-26-2013, 05:51 PM
Mes just doesn't play his position well. Just an observation.

_Sir_Charles_
06-26-2013, 05:51 PM
Good example of the poor form of Devin right there. Reached with his hand instead of moving to block the ball.

New York Red
06-26-2013, 05:51 PM
Front office has to acquire some players or they should take advantage of the market, trade Choo, trade Arroyo, both expiring contracts. Restock the farm.

I don't view sitting still as much of an option.
Hold on now. We're not even close to anything that drastic. :eek:

Red Raindog
06-26-2013, 05:52 PM
Mes just doesn't play his position well. Just an observation.

yup

holster10
06-26-2013, 05:52 PM
i think an on-field coach firing will occur before the Reds make any trades.

when re-upped, i am sure that Reds brass told Baker and his band of banjos that the team was expected to make the playoffs and go farther in 2013.

_Sir_Charles_
06-26-2013, 05:52 PM
Pop out to Cozy to end the inning. 5-0 A's.

New York Red
06-26-2013, 05:52 PM
OK, time to crank up some offense against A.J. "Big Train" Griffin.

TheBigLebowski
06-26-2013, 05:52 PM
This team is in serious trouble.

ProfessorTofty
06-26-2013, 05:52 PM
One last shot here.

50YrRedsFan
06-26-2013, 05:53 PM
There isn't any help out there. There are tons of teams that want help, but there have been 0 significant trades. Reds are stuck with what they have unless they grossly overpay.

You see what we're getting with what we have. This is a .500 baseball team unless there are changes.

_Sir_Charles_
06-26-2013, 05:54 PM
Mes just doesn't play his position well. Just an observation.

He just seems too nonchalant back there. It's not a lack of effort, but it looks like a lack of focus or urgency. The skills are there.

_Sir_Charles_
06-26-2013, 05:54 PM
Oh that just looked WEIRD. Morgan in an A's uni. *shudder*

WVRedsFan
06-26-2013, 05:55 PM
Good example of the poor form of Devin right there. Reached with his hand instead of moving to block the ball.

Yes. Agree.

Red Raindog
06-26-2013, 05:55 PM
The way I see it -- Bruce and Votto are the offense right now

BP has not been the same since getting hit

Cozart, Frazier, the catchers & LF have done very little most of the year

Choo has become below average after his torrid start

The bullpen has not been as good as I expected - same for the bench

The starting pitching is the only thing that has kept this team in it.

holster10
06-26-2013, 05:55 PM
I think it's finally time that B. Jacoby receives his long overdue pink slip.

DocRed
06-26-2013, 05:56 PM
Another solid effort by the Reds..

_Sir_Charles_
06-26-2013, 05:57 PM
You see what we're getting with what we have. This is a .500 baseball team unless there are changes.

You do realize that even WITH our recent slump, this is the 3rd best team in the NL. And we'd be leading every other division in baseball except 1, right?

50YrRedsFan
06-26-2013, 05:57 PM
The way I see it -- Bruce and Votto are the offense right now

BP has not been the same since getting hit

Cozart, Frazier, the catchers & LF have done very little most of the year

Choo has become below average after his torrid start

The bullpen has not been as good as I expected - same for the bench

The starting pitching is the only thing that has kept this team in it.

Agreed 100%

_Sir_Charles_
06-26-2013, 05:58 PM
Golden sombrero to end it. Ugh.

Red Raindog
06-26-2013, 05:58 PM
Golden Sombrero for Bruce

Kc61
06-26-2013, 05:58 PM
Hold on now. We're not even close to anything that drastic. :eek:

What's so drastic? Choo and Arroyo are free agents. I doubt the Reds will sign either. They will cost quite a bit, Arroyo has tons of mileage, Choo is a good player with flaws who has Scott Boras.

If the Reds are 10 games out and vying for the second wild card spot, and can get good prospects for these two guys, why not consider it?

I wouldn't trade the whole team, but on a surgical basis, I'd consider some moves, even moves to get younger and a bit cheaper.

Let's not kid ourselves. The Reds could be 7 games out by next week very easily. Everything should be on the table for discussion.

leeech86
06-26-2013, 05:58 PM
wow....

WVRedsFan
06-26-2013, 05:59 PM
And now we get Texas while the Cardinals get Houston. Maybe 8 or 9 out by next weekend

VR
06-26-2013, 05:59 PM
One last shot here.

After this game, the shot hit the spot.

DocRed
06-26-2013, 05:59 PM
Games like this make me wish we didn't have a "players" manager.

Kc61
06-26-2013, 05:59 PM
And now we get Texas while the Cardinals get Houston. Maybe 8 or 9 out by next weekend

Cards playing Houston now, I think they go to Oakland.

50YrRedsFan
06-26-2013, 06:00 PM
You do realize that even WITH our recent slump, this is the 3rd best team in the NL. And we'd be leading every other division in baseball except 1, right?

Yes, we still have a very good record, but like our hitting, is declining almost daily. We have played below .500 ball the past month.

Red Raindog
06-26-2013, 06:00 PM
Cards playing Houston now, I think they go to Oakland.

right -- I fully expect them to dismantle the A's

sure hope I'm wrong

New York Red
06-26-2013, 06:01 PM
On the bright side, the team should be fresh Friday after having back-to-back off days.

WVRedsFan
06-26-2013, 06:02 PM
Cards playing Houston now, I think they go to Oakland.

OK. Where they will look like the 1927 Yankees. I hope our pitching holds true over that Texas series. If not, have mercy!

RedsBrick
06-26-2013, 06:41 PM
I think it's finally time that B. Jacoby receives his long overdue pink slip.

I would'nt be upset if he took a certain manager with him.

cumberlandreds
06-26-2013, 08:17 PM
Likely a combination of rewarding Izturis for his three-hit night last night and the fact that Cesar is a much better defensive player than Rodriguez. Henry hasn't exactly been lighting it up at Louisville this year, either

Doesn't look like it mattered much. I just got in and saw the Reds were shutout. Ughhh....I'm glad I missed this one.

Red Raindog
06-26-2013, 08:44 PM
Doesn't look like it mattered much. I just got in and saw the Reds were shutout. Ughhh....I'm glad I missed this one.

Was a good one to miss.

I should have played 36 holes instead of coming back to watch it.

_Sir_Charles_
06-26-2013, 09:56 PM
Yes, we still have a very good record, but like our hitting, is declining almost daily. We have played below .500 ball the past month.

And how much ground have we lost exactly? And those 2 clubs above us...they've been playing lights out most all season long...and we've scuffled most all season long compared to how we expected to play...and we're how much out? Every team goes through a slump. Patience.

foxfire123
06-26-2013, 10:22 PM
Charles, it's hard to have patience with crappy playing like this. This team has more talent than they've shown lately. It's frustrating.

New York Red
06-26-2013, 10:33 PM
And how much ground have we lost exactly? And those 2 clubs above us...they've been playing lights out most all season long...and we've scuffled most all season long compared to how we expected to play...and we're how much out? Every team goes through a slump. Patience.
We haven't scuffled most of the season. We've had the same strengths and same weaknesses since game one. Our biggest strength: starting pitching. Our biggest weakness: BA with RISP and two outs. Unexpected strength: None. Unexpected weakness: Bullpen. Things that should change: Bullpen, because we get Marshall and Broxton back. Things that might not change: RISP w/2 out, and our record against teams .500+ (15-27).

So how have those two teams above us been playing lights out, when they've had more injuries than we have and they've won 12 of 18 games head-to-head against us?

Ironman92
06-26-2013, 11:06 PM
Well....that wasn't the best trip to Oakland for the Reds.

Need to get it going a bit. Starts Friday!