Anyone following all the cheating at North Carolina?

[WMR]

I honestly don't even know where to begin. It's insane. UNC** is more protected than any institution in U.S history.

[WMR]

*educational institution I meant to say.

I'll pull some articles together later, the craziest part is that they're essentially facing zero sanctions for decades of academic malfeasance via their African American Studies program. The program had verified no show classes, and a huge number of bball players were involved. The NCAA allowed them to pawn it all off on the fball program.

As a fan of a program that was taken to the woodshed for previous infractions (deservedly so), the favoritism shown UNC and Duke is pretty infuriating.

[reds1869]

I know what you mean. My school (Marshall) had our football program decimated for a much lesser scandal. It is really frustrating to see UNC getting a finger wag and slap on the wrist when many other schools have been nailed to the wall.

[westofyou]

Wait College sports might be tainted?

Wait a UK fan is complaining about UNC!!

Wait I find it all funny!

[WVRed]

*educational institution I meant to say.

I'll pull some articles together later, the craziest part is that they're essentially facing zero sanctions for decades of academic malfeasance via their African American Studies program. The program had verified no show classes, and a huge number of bball players were involved. The NCAA allowed them to pawn it all off on the fball program.

As a fan of a program that was taken to the woodshed for previous infractions (deservedly so), the favoritism shown UNC and Duke is pretty infuriating.

Kinda funny when you mention Duke, who had Lance Thomas who refused to talk to NCAA investigators. Had that happened anywhere else, the program would have been levied sanctions. Because it was Duke, they dropped the case.

The other part to the story is PJ Hairston, who received numerous automobiles to rent through a UNC booster. I really hope this story blows up like Ohio State with Tressel to where the NCAA can't turn a blind eye to it.

[WMR]

Kinda funny when you mention Duke, who had Lance Thomas who refused to talk to NCAA investigators. Had that happened anywhere else, the program would have been levied sanctions. Because it was Duke, they dropped the case.

The other part to the story is PJ Hairston, who received numerous automobiles to rent through a UNC booster. I really hope this story blows up like Ohio State with Tressel to where the NCAA can't turn a blind eye to it.

Have you seen the letter the NCAA sent to Miami stating that if they didn't respond to their inquiry within so many days it would be taken as an admission of committing NCAA violations?

And then Memphis gets a Final Four stripped because Derrick Rose doesn't respond to a letter of inquiry from the NCAA. The NCAA is okay with Lance Thomas refusing to talk since he's no longer a student but D. Rose's "refusal" is seen as a tacit admittance of guilt.

But Duke skates again and again. Hell, the Maggette situation was as clear cut a case of impermissible benefits as you could ever imagine.

Haven't even gotten into the Wheels for Heels program yet. :eek:

Can you imagine if all this crap was going on at UK? Thameltoe would be living in Lexington, Goodman would be tweeting incessantly, Forde would be writing a book, and the NCAA would be working on nailing us to the wall. The silence is deafening.

[redsfanmia]

The Wooden/gilbert era at UCLA is the best example of a Cheating school getting off Scott free .

[westofyou]

The Wooden/gilbert era at UCLA is the best example of a Cheating school getting off Scott free .

That wasn't a school it was a machine

[REDREAD]

I really hope this story blows up like Ohio State with Tressel to where the NCAA can't turn a blind eye to it.

OSU got off pretty easy for their scandal, IMO.
Other schools got punished much harder for less.

[New York Red]

Wait College sports might be tainted?

Wait a UK fan is complaining about UNC!!

Wait I find it all funny!
The difference is UK paid for what they did in the 50's and 80's, while schools like UNC and Duke (and others) are protected by the NCAA and the media. There is definitely a double standard and has been for a long time.

[westofyou]

The difference is UK paid for what they did in the 50's and 80's, while schools like UNC and Duke (and others) are protected by the NCAA and the media. There is definitely a double standard and has been for a long time.

Let me guess you root for KY?

I'm not huge BB fan so I have dog in this hunt, but I hear a lot of folks complain about UK

[BillDoran]

OSU got off pretty easy for their scandal, IMO.
Other schools got punished much harder for less.

Relative to Oregon and Auburn? :confused:

[Reds Freak]

Kinda funny when you mention Duke, who had Lance Thomas who refused to talk to NCAA investigators. Had that happened anywhere else, the program would have been levied sanctions. Because it was Duke, they dropped the case.

The other part to the story is PJ Hairston, who received numerous automobiles to rent through a UNC booster. I really hope this story blows up like Ohio State with Tressel to where the NCAA can't turn a blind eye to it.

The car PJ was driving was from an agent or one of the agent's runners. In no way was the individual connected to UNC.

[IslandRed]

The car PJ was driving was from an agent or one of the agent's runners. In no way was the individual connected to UNC.

And the guy bankrolling Reggie Bush didn't have a connection to USC, either. Sometimes the NCAA cares about agents and sometimes it doesn't, which is the maddening part, but to the extent there is any logic whatsoever in their thinking, it tends to revolve around this question -- did anyone at the university know (either admittedly or in the NCAA's judgment), and fail to act? That's usually where the line is between an athlete eligibility issue and an institutional control issue.

[Slyder]

Why do you think the big boys have been rumbling about possibly going off on their own for at least football?

[Gunner44]

OSU got off pretty easy for their scandal, IMO.
Other schools got punished much harder for less.

This just isn't true. Have you seen what happened to Oregon?For an actual on the field competitive advantage.

[Todd Gack]

NCAA plays favorites.

the NCAA hates Miami so they're going to get pounded and believe a proven liar and felon before anyone else.

[jojo]

Relative to Oregon and Auburn? :confused:

Auburn didn't do anything wrong.

[Joseph]

Auburn didn't do anything wrong.

Every college program does something wrong. Auburn just hasn't been caught.

[cumberlandreds]

Every college program does something wrong. Auburn just hasn't been caught.

Exactly right. Every major school has these bunny courses set up for their athletes. It's just a matter how far to the easy side they want to take them. Maybe UNC went a little too far? I don't know. But I do know every major callege does this. UGA is an example of a school that went too far back in the Jim Harrick days. He had a basketball course his son "taught". They gave the answers to the test and some other things that went too far. That was one of many things Harrick went too far on and eventually paid for it.

[Red Buckeye]

Auburn didn't do anything wrong.

Riiight.

[jojo]

Riiight.


NCAA statement on Auburn football investigation
After conducting more than 80 interviews, the NCAA has concluded its investigation into Auburn University. The NCAA enforcement staff is committed to a fair and thorough investigative process. As such, any allegations of major rules violations must meet a burden of proof, which is a higher standard than rampant public speculation online and in the media. The allegations must be based on credible and persuasive information and includes a good-faith belief that the Committee on Infractions could make a finding. As with any case, should the enforcement staff become aware of additional credible information, it will review the information to determine whether further investigation is warranted.

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/NCAA/Resources/Latest+News/2011/October/NCAA+statement+on+Auburn+football+investigation

BTW, the Rogers/Cecil drama was a Mississippi State issue.

[Red Buckeye]

:laugh:
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/NCAA/Resources/Latest+News/2011/October/NCAA+statement+on+Auburn+football+investigation

BTW, the Rogers/Cecil drama was a Mississippi State issue.

The funniest part about you response is that you quoted something the NCAA said...as if they are actually fair.

"The NCAA enforcement staff is committed to a fair and thorough investigative process.".

The NCAA hasn't made fair and balanced rulings for a while. Same reason Oregon got a slap on the wrist.

[jojo]

:laugh:

The funniest part about you response is that you quoted something the NCAA said...as if they are actually fair.

"The NCAA enforcement staff is committed to a fair and thorough investigative process.".

The NCAA hasn't made fair and balanced rulings for a while. Same reason Oregon got a slap on the wrist.

When the NCAA actually finds evidence of wrongdoing, it hands down penalties. On the rare occasion when the NCAA can find no evidence of wrong doing, it issues declaritive statements to that effect. One can quibble about the appropriate severity of a punishment for a given infraction and even if the NCAA doles out penalties in a consistent manner. But there really isn't any wiggle room concerning exoneration due to a lack of any credible evidence to substantiate an allegation.

[WVRed]

Hairston suspended indefinitely after receiving a traffic citation:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/acc/2013/07/28/north-carolina-pj-hairston-speeding/2594791/

I'd say with a 99.9% certainty he will be back by December 14th (Kentucky).

[Chip R]

Hairston suspended indefinitely after receiving a traffic citation:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/acc/2013/07/28/north-carolina-pj-hairston-speeding/2594791/

I'd say with a 99.9% certainty he will be back by December 14th (Kentucky).

I hope UNC can get by Athletes In Action and the Division II or III opponents without him. ;)

[TheBigLebowski]

Auburn didn't do anything wrong.

Cam Newton's Dad agrees.

[TheBigLebowski]

Completely agree that the lack of attention given to the situation at UNC is ridiculous. This is death penalty-type stuff here.

[jojo]

Cam Newton's Dad agrees.

Cecil never approached Auburn. Quit trolling especially given this kind of trolling ignores established facts.

[TheBigLebowski]

Cecil never approached Auburn. Quit trolling especially given this kind of trolling ignores established facts.

Oh please.

Can you really sit there with a straight face and tell me nothing of impropriety happened? Seriously?

[jojo]

Oh please.

Can you really sit there with a straight face and tell me nothing of impropriety happened? Seriously?

This has been rehashed and definitively settled multiple times. If you're interested, just read the archives.

[fearofpopvol1]

Oh please.

Can you really sit there with a straight face and tell me nothing of impropriety happened? Seriously?

It's more of an opinion piece, but it's in line with what you've said.

http://www.andthevalleyshook.com/2013/4/4/4182758/the-auburn-rorschach-test

Just because the university hasn't been caught doesn't mean there wasn't wrongdoing. It took Lance Armstrong a long time to get caught. It took the Fab 5 a long time to get caught. It took Reggie Bush a long time to get caught etc. etc.

[jojo]

Why not discuss Auburn in an Auburn thread? Posting an SB nation opinion piece about confirmation bias and Selena Roberts really informs zip about cheating at North Carolina.

[fearofpopvol1]

Auburn didn't do anything wrong.



Originally Posted by NCAA;
NCAA statement on Auburn football investigation
After conducting more than 80 interviews, the NCAA has concluded its investigation into Auburn University. The NCAA enforcement staff is committed to a fair and thorough investigative process. As such, any allegations of major rules violations must meet a burden of proof, which is a higher standard than rampant public speculation online and in the media. The allegations must be based on credible and persuasive information and includes a good-faith belief that the Committee on Infractions could make a finding. As with any case, should the enforcement staff become aware of additional credible information, it will review the information to determine whether further investigation is warranted.
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/...+investigation

BTW, the Rogers/Cecil drama was a Mississippi State issue.


When the NCAA actually finds evidence of wrongdoing, it hands down penalties. On the rare occasion when the NCAA can find no evidence of wrong doing, it issues declaritive statements to that effect. One can quibble about the appropriate severity of a punishment for a given infraction and even if the NCAA doles out penalties in a consistent manner. But there really isn't any wiggle room concerning exoneration due to a lack of any credible evidence to substantiate an allegation.


Cecil never approached Auburn. Quit trolling especially given this kind of trolling ignores established facts.


This has been rehashed and definitively settled multiple times. If you're interested, just read the archives.

Thanks for advancing the UNC discussion!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br-Dy3puDoc

[jojo]

Thanks for advancing the UNC discussion!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br-Dy3puDoc

I didn't start the tangent and clearly it's a distraction. Undeniably, continuing Auburn-specific discussion in this thread is a hijack. Why would you keep at it?

[Todd Gack]

Oh please.

Can you really sit there with a straight face and tell me nothing of impropriety happened? Seriously?

Don't bother. It's not worth it.

[Boston Red]

I didn't start the tangent

Is this real life?

[jojo]

Is this real life?

Your question requires more information.

[TheBigLebowski]

Someone is an Auburn fan, I take it.

[BillDoran]

This has been rehashed and definitively settled multiple times. If you're interested, just read the archives.

LOL. The only thing established with certainty was your cornering of the market on a particular brand of confidence.

[jojo]

LOL. The only thing established with certainty was your cornering of the market on a particular brand of confidence.

Actually the NCAA settled it definitively with an exhaustive look at the issue. But really while I agree Auburn is infinitely more interesting than NC, you need to talk about this in an Auburn thread per Boss' previous edict.

[WMR]

Why not discuss Auburn in an Auburn thread? Posting an SB nation opinion piece about confirmation bias and Selena Roberts really informs zip about cheating at North Carolina.

Sort of like bringing up trayvon Martin in a thread about pot, Mr. No one but me is allowed to troll? :lol::laugh:

[Assembly Hall]

Sort of like bringing up trayvon Martin in a thread about pot, Mr. No one but me is allowed to troll? :lol::laugh:

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!:thumbup:

[jojo]

Sort of like bringing up trayvon Martin in a thread about pot, Mr. No one but me is allowed to troll? :lol::laugh:

The specific post you're referencing made a legitimate point in the context it was posted. Your reaction to it at the time was innapropriate and continued reaction is certainly over the top and utterly uncalled for in this thread, a thread about the Tarheel cheating issue.

Jeeps, rather than try to get this thread closed with blatant baiting and trolling, why not just unsubscribe from the thread?

[WVRed]

The specific post you're referencing made a legitimate point in the context it was posted. Your reaction to it at the time was innapropriate and continued reaction is certainly over the top and utterly uncalled for in this thread, a thread about the Tarheel cheating issue.

Jeeps, rather than try to get this thread closed with blatant baiting and trolling, why not just unsubscribe from the thread?

Why does it seem like every college thread comes back on Auburn cheating? I think that horse was beaten a LONG time ago.

[Assembly Hall]

Why does it seem like every college thread comes back on Auburn cheating? I think that horse was beaten a LONG time ago.

Because Auburn never cheats. Past history has proven that..........well;)

[Assembly Hall]

Getting back on some what the topic.

As an older guy, it simply amazes me as to what the "glory" program coaches get away with to a degree. Can someone find me a mold of Adolph Rupp or Bobby Knight? The sport needs some no non-sense guys. They weren't perfect, but they didn't cheat either.......well at least they haven't got caught yet!!!!!!!!!:beerme:

[WMR]

Things getting a bit more interesting at UNC***.


Anyone following?

[improbus]

It brings up some interesting things.

1) Every time a scandal starts like this, the first thing the university and its fans do is trash the guy starting it. Discredit the voice and change the public's focus.

2) This is one of those scandals which most people believes happens everywhere. I remember when a transcript of Andy Katzenmoyer's schedule was made public and he was made fun of. Most fans tend to accept that a fairly large amount of high level college athletes aren't getting a high level education.

[Reds Freak]

If you're interested in this story - and looking at both sides of it - take a look at the blog of Bradley Bethel, a learning specialist at the University of North Carolina. Bethel pokes all sorts of holes in the media's sensationalizing of the UNC story and the motives of the so-called "whistle blower". He writes in a very academic tone so some of it is a little more challenging to follow.

http://coachingthemind.blogspot.com/

[Chip R]

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/11745036/north-carolina-investigation-says-advisers-pushed-sham-classes

[WMR]

At least 18 years, I'm guessing longer in some format.

It's stunning how brazen unc was in their cheating.

Strict Liability.

That's really all that needs to be said.

Sorry, UNC.

18 years of records and awards wiped clean.

Anything else would open the ncaa to a huge lawsuit from the UCONNs and Memphis States of the world. (Would never happen, I'm afraid, but still, for argument's sake.)

NCAA set the precedent, now follow it.

[Slyder]

At least 18 years, I'm guessing longer in some format.

It's stunning how brazen unc was in their cheating.

Strict Liability.

That's really all that needs to be said.

Sorry, UNC.

18 years of records and awards wiped clean.

Anything else would open the ncaa to a huge lawsuit from the UCONNs and Memphis States of the world. (Would never happen, I'm afraid, but still, for argument's sake.)

NCAA set the precedent, now follow it.

And people wonder why I want nothing to do with the ACC as a Mountaineer fan. Damn bunch of hypocrites.

[Assembly Hall]

At least 18 years, I'm guessing longer in some format.

It's stunning how brazen unc was in their cheating.

Strict Liability.

That's really all that needs to be said.

Sorry, UNC.

18 years of records and awards wiped clean.

Anything else would open the ncaa to a huge lawsuit from the UCONNs and Memphis States of the world. (Would never happen, I'm afraid, but still, for argument's sake.)

NCAA set the precedent, now follow it.

I am right there with ya man.

[RedTeamGo!]

They should get the death penalty for that, but they won't.

[WVRed]

And people wonder why I want nothing to do with the ACC as a Mountaineer fan. Damn bunch of hypocrites.

Throw in Free Shoes University and the problems with Famous Jameis and the ACC is a joke. At least the SEC school in question suspended their top player indefinitely (Gurley).

And the NCAA waived Penn St's sanctions if that says anything at all.

[cumberlandreds]

If the NCAA goes with strict liability it won't matter if Roy or anyone else in the athletic department knew about this. (BTW, I have acres of swamp land if you believe Ole Roy didn't know what was going on.)
This is getting a lot of national publicity. I think the NCAA is going to have a hard time ignoring this one. Also I believe the academic people at UNC have to be more than ticked at this. It makes the entire University look awful. I think in the end there will be some major penalties hand out. But then again the NCAA has made a living at sweeping things under the rug for certain institutions.

[Mutaman]

Getting back on some what the topic.

As an older guy, it simply amazes me as to what the "glory" program coaches get away with to a degree. Can someone find me a mold of Adolph Rupp or Bobby Knight? The sport needs some no non-sense guys. They weren't perfect, but they didn't cheat either.......well at least they haven't got caught yet!!!!!!!!!:beerme:

I recall old Adolph did the opposite of cheating- his players shaved points.

"Adolph Rupp wouldn't give you a straw hat in a blizzard"

Al McGuire

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1499&dat=19771213&id=_2saAAAAIBAJ&sjid=hikEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4342,2385303

[Assembly Hall]

I recall old Adolph did the opposite of cheating- his players shaved points.

"Adolph Rupp wouldn't give you a straw hat in a blizzard"

Al McGuire

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1499&dat=19771213&id=_2saAAAAIBAJ&sjid=hikEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4342,2385303

Look up what Digger Phelps has said about Al McGuire.

[Assembly Hall]

Throw in Free Shoes University and the problems with Famous Jameis and the ACC is a joke. At least the SEC school in question suspended their top player indefinitely (Gurley).

And the NCAA waived Penn St's sanctions if that says anything at all.

WV, I was taken back by what happened at Penn St. But I think the NCAA over stepped their bounds on that one. It was sexual misconduct by a coach and the ensuing cover-up. It had nothing to do with the players whatsoever........but who knows?

[WMR]

I recall old Adolph did the opposite of cheating- his players shaved points.

"Adolph Rupp wouldn't give you a straw hat in a blizzard"

Al McGuire

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1499&dat=19771213&id=_2saAAAAIBAJ&sjid=hikEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4342,2385303

You think Adolph Rupp would condone point shaving? :rolleyes:

BTW: Al McGuire always had a ton of respect for Kentucky basketball.

[Boston Red]

I wouldn't call this cheating. Just trying harder than most.

[Assembly Hall]

You think Adolph Rupp would condone point shaving? :rolleyes:

BTW: Al McGuire always had a ton of respect for Kentucky basketball.

WMR, do you know who Al McGuire's favorite person was?.....................It was Al McGuire!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[WMR]

WMR, do you know who Al McGuire's favorite person was?.....................It was Al McGuire!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I loved him. His personality was just hilarious.

[Assembly Hall]

I loved him too my friend.

[Chip R]

Well, it looks like no one in the athletic department had anything to do with this. So, case closed. :rolleyes:

[Mutaman]

Look up what Digger Phelps has said about Al McGuire.

''I learned defense from Bobby Knight and psychology from Al McGuire. People need to be refreshed on what Al McGuire was. He was a rock. He was the best. He did for Milwaukee in college basketball what Vince Lombardi did for Green Bay in pro football.''—Former Notre Dame basketball coach Digger Phelps, on rival and friend Al McGuire,

The Marquette- Fordham game in the Garden (The Dream vs Charlie Yelverton, two kids from Rice High SChool) is still one of the great basketball games I've ever seen.

[Kilgore_Trout]

18 years of organized cheating, academic fraud, and collusion between multiple levels of UNC academia...

Yet Roy Williams and co. had no idea their players were involved. Sure. I have some beach-front property for ya in Lima.

Every college coach, even on down to high school and middle school, is aware of the classes their athletes are taking. They monitor their performance in the classroom, and if they're good at their job, they'll push them to excel just as much off the court as on. If Roy Williams truly failed in this regard, he should be fired solely for neglecting these basic responsibilities. But something tells me he was far more involved than he'll ever admit. He has an image to uphold, after all.

I can't fathom how angry I would be if I were a current/former student of UNC, busting my behind to get good grades, studying well into the night, accumulating mounds of debt... and all the while, elements of the university knowingly pushed fraudulent paper-classes for their precious athletes so they can maintain eligibility and make a few more bucks. I'm sure there are some wonderful professors at Chapel Hill that are fuming over this, as they should be.

[Mutaman]

You think Adolph Rupp would condone point shaving? :rolleyes:

BTW: Al McGuire always had a ton of respect for Kentucky basketball.

Al eventually said the right things but I'm not sure "respect" is the right word- at least when it comes to Rupp and other issues:


McGuire was a young coach taking on the "Baron of the Bluegrass," a veritable dictator who had already won four national championships. In 1968, with Marquette set to meet Kentucky in a Mideast Regional semifinal on the Wildcats' home court in Lexington, Rupp asked McGuire to be a guest on his radio show.

"He talked to Coach Al in derogatory terms," recalls George Thompson, then the Warriors' star forward and now part of Marquette's broadcast team. "He called him `son' or `boy.' Coach Al got up, threw the microphone down and walked off. It was unheard of to treat the Baron of Bluegrass like that, but if anyone could do it, it was Coach Al.

"He said, `Coach Rupp, you can call me son when you start paying the mortgage and supporting my family.' Then he stood up, threw down the microphone and walked off."

Thompson sat out much of that game with foul trouble ("Got a little home cooking") and Marquette lost by 18, which set the stage for an encore the next March.

That game was played in Madison, Wis., and Marquette's seven-point win was so huge Thompson is looking for a tape of it to send out as a gift to his former teammates.

"The thing that didn't go unnoticed, back in 1969, it was the North against the South," he says.

"Their band was playing `Dixie.' Our band was playing `The Battle Hymn of the Republic.' It was old notions against more liberated ones and there were a lot of underlying currents.

"It still amazes me that people hold in high respect someone who didn't respect other peoples' humanity. . . . He had some great players and I don't think a lot of them felt the way Rupp did."

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2003-03-29/sports/0303290128_1_al-mcguire-marquette-mideast-regional

[RedTeamGo!]

Wash't Rupp a horrible racist [jerk]?

[RiverRat13]

Yet Roy Williams and co. had no idea their players were involved. Sure. I have some beach-front property for ya in Lima.


The report states that when Williams got to UNC, he was concerned with how many AFAM majors were on the team and started diverting players away from that department.

[Assembly Hall]

''I learned defense from Bobby Knight and psychology from Al McGuire. People need to be refreshed on what Al McGuire was. He was a rock. He was the best. He did for Milwaukee in college basketball what Vince Lombardi did for Green Bay in pro football.''—Former Notre Dame basketball coach Digger Phelps, on rival and friend Al McGuire,

The Marquette- Fordham game in the Garden (The Dream vs Charlie Yelverton, two kids from Rice High SChool) is still one of the great basketball games I've ever seen.


I also remember Al as an announcer............he was the fore runner to guys like Dick Vitale.

[Boston Red]

The report states that when Williams got to UNC, he was concerned with how many AFAM majors were on the team and started diverting players away from that department.

Why let facts get in the way of things? This looks much, much worse for the university as a whole and for the football program than it does for UNC basketball.

[Chip R]

Back to the topic, I think when a coach is at a school for several years, has a great deal of success and accumulates enough power that he pretty much has control over the athletic department, scandals like this and the Penn State scandal happen. Now, the original problem at Penn State was sexual assault while at UNC it's academic fraud. But both are problems that were covered up because the coach(s) did not want this to get out to the media. Roy Williams has been described as an honest person while the same could be said about the late Joe Paterno. No recruiting scandals at UNC or PSU. As with most scandals, the cover-up was the big problem. At PSU, if Paterno or anyone else there had been bold enough to alert the authorities about Sandusky, there wouldn't have been so many sexual assaults on these kids. Now, it appears that there was whistle blowing at UNC but the university did its best to discredit the whistle blowers and cover it up.

Having the success and status that Paterno and Williams had can turn more honest men than them to the dark side. You get in a situation like that and you want to keep the gravy train going. It's not just about money but status and ego. There's also outside pressure from boosters, alums and the media to continue to win at a high level. To do so, you start letting kids into your university (which you have a great deal of influence over) that shouldn't be there in the first place. You rationalize it by telling yourself that if your college doesn't let them in, they will go to your rival. It's a story as old as intercollegiate athletics.

[traderumor]

With universities being little more than trade schools, they are all committing academic fraud. Throw in the big business of college athletics, and we should simply call it "hire education."

[Kilgore_Trout]

The report states that when Williams got to UNC, he was concerned with how many AFAM majors were on the team and started diverting players away from that department.

The report also states that Butch Davis and John Bunting, two former football coaches, admitted to having at least some knowledge of the fraudulent cheating program. Yet Roy Williams, shoe-in Hall of Famer, winner of multiple national championships and the face of their premier athletic program, didn't have a clue. How convenient.

At the end of the day, there needs to be an independent investigation by a third-party with no affiliation to the university or even the NCAA. My suspicions may very well be proven wrong. Until then, this whole thing will continue to smell like rotting fish. At least to me.

[WMR]

The report also states that Butch Davis and John Bunting, two former football coaches, admitted to having at least some knowledge of the fraudulent cheating program. Yet Roy Williams, shoe-in Hall of Famer, winner of multiple national championships and the face of their premier athletic program, didn't have a clue. How convenient.

At the end of the day, there needs to be an independent investigation by a third-party with no affiliation to the university or even the NCAA. My suspicions may very well be proven wrong. Until then, this whole thing will continue to smell like rotting fish. At least to me.

How did he not know yet also "steered kids away from that program"?? :rolleyes:

Those who are still beating the "only a football issue" drum are woefully uninformed.

You've got major media figures/outlets now calling for games to be vacated and banners taken down.

[WMR]

"When you bring your own academic counselor from Kansas and that
counselor continued the sham for eligibility purposes, it is not
believable that Roy Williams didn't know about it," Gurney said. "He
asked the athletic director about the course loads."

"I can safely say that the scope of the 20-year UNC fraud scandal easily takes the prize for the largest and most nefarious scandal in the history of NCAA enforcement," said Gerald Gurney, president of the Drake Group, whose mission is to "defend academic integrity in higher education."

[Mutaman]

I also remember Al as an announcer............he was the fore runner to guys like Dick Vitale.

Al and Vitale weren't on the same planet, weren't in the same universe. As coaches or as announcers.

Vitale may be a nice enough guy and kudos to him for what seems like a lot of charity work. But i stopped listening to him many many moons ago.

[cumberlandreds]

I also remember Al as an announcer............he was the fore runner to guys like Dick Vitale.

Al knew how to put Billy Packer in his place. You had to like him just for that alone.

[Assembly Hall]

Al and Vitale weren't on the same planet, weren't in the same universe. As coaches or as announcers.

Vitale may be a nice enough guy and kudos to him for what seems like a lot of charity work. But i stopped listening to him many many moons ago.


I agree man. Al coined phrases such as "Aircraft Carrier" that I feel Vitale played on.

[Assembly Hall]

"When you bring your own academic counselor from Kansas and that
counselor continued the sham for eligibility purposes, it is not
believable that Roy Williams didn't know about it," Gurney said. "He
asked the athletic director about the course loads."

"I can safely say that the scope of the 20-year UNC fraud scandal easily takes the prize for the largest and most nefarious scandal in the history of NCAA enforcement," said Gerald Gurney, president of the Drake Group, whose mission is to "defend academic integrity in higher education."


All I can say is the entire situation is just PITIFUL!!!!!!!!!!

[KoryMac5]

From what I am reading the Death Penalty would be too light for UNC. Hopefully the NCAA clamps down and sets an example going forward. However as we all know they love giving slaps on the wrist.

[Assembly Hall]

From what I am reading the Death Penalty would be too light for UNC. Hopefully the NCAA clamps down and sets an example going forward. However as we all know they love giving slaps on the wrist.

I don't know if Tar Heel nation is going to get out of this. I sit and look around at what has happened to other schools for far less.

[jojo]

I'm not really sure how this is any different that taking golf or aerobics for academic credit. Also, the majority of students who enrolled in those classes were not athletes. I get that it's an academic farce but i'm not sure it's the unusual, or gross example of "cheating" that the media is making it out to be.

[Slyder]

I'm not really sure how this is any different that taking golf or aerobics for academic credit. Also, the majority of students who enrolled in those classes were not athletes. I get that it's an academic farce but i'm not sure it's the unusual, or gross example of "cheating" that the media is making it out to be.

For me its a clear case of lack of institutional control. They have gotten away from what should be college's #1 priority education and become a glorified diploma printing press cheapening the value of an education that I am sure many of those students paid BIG BUCUKS for and are still required to pay in terms of student loans taken out as a student. But I could get into a whole other thread about the shell game a lot of universities are anyways but that's besides the point.

The thing that irritates me is that my school (WVSU) and fandom (WVU) gets trashed for being 2nd rate universities by clowns from schools such as UNC and then its revealed bull crap like this... The hypocrisy is so thick you can cut it with a knife.

If I were NC and alum I'd threaten to cut any funds from UNC unless they CLEAN HOUSE of anyone remotely knowledgeable of this farce and have to come begging with proof they fixed the problem. There is nothing wrong with having classes like Bowling, underwater basketweaving, etc for easy a's but to direct students (regardless of whether they were athletes or not) to classes that had NO EDUCATIONAL value and they did none of the work then I have a problem. At least with some of the other joke classes you still have to show up and do something.

[jojo]

For me its a clear case of lack of institutional control. They have gotten away from what should be college's #1 priority education and become a glorified diploma printing press cheapening the value of an education that I am sure many of those students paid BIG BUCUKS for and are still required to pay in terms of student loans taken out as a student. But I could get into a whole other thread about the shell game a lot of universities are anyways but that's besides the point.

The thing that irritates me is that my school (WVSU) and fandom (WVU) gets trashed for being 2nd rate universities by clowns from schools such as UNC and then its revealed bull crap like this... The hypocrisy is so thick you can cut it with a knife.

If I were NC and alum I'd threaten to cut any funds from UNC unless they CLEAN HOUSE of anyone remotely knowledgeable of this farce and have to come begging with proof they fixed the problem. There is nothing wrong with having classes like Bowling, underwater basketweaving, etc for easy a's but to direct students (regardless of whether they were athletes or not) to classes that had NO EDUCATIONAL value and they did none of the work then I have a problem. At least with some of the other joke classes you still have to show up and do something.

To me, this particular aspect of the NC cheating narrative is more of a SACs issue than an athletic department issue. Obviously, that would be a huge hit to the prestige of the university if it were put on that type of probation. If I'm UNC, I ditch athletics altogether rather than jepaordize SACs standing.

[Assembly Hall]

I'm not really sure how this is any different that taking golf or aerobics for academic credit. Also, the majority of students who enrolled in those classes were not athletes. I get that it's an academic farce but i'm not sure it's the unusual, or gross example of "cheating" that the media is making it out to be.


C'mon man! Are you serious?

[jojo]

C'mon man! Are you serious?

No. I'm super duper serious.

[KoryMac5]

I'm not really sure how this is any different that taking golf or aerobics for academic credit. Also, the majority of students who enrolled in those classes were not athletes. I get that it's an academic farce but i'm not sure it's the unusual, or gross example of "cheating" that the media is making it out to be.

At least with taking golf or aerobics you have to show up and participate to get a grade, most of the kids enrolled in this class didn't even show up. Big difference. It was a shadow class, no attendance or coursework needed cept for a final paper. Sounds like a sham to me.

[Reds Freak]

For me its a clear case of lack of institutional control. They have gotten away from what should be college's #1 priority education and become a glorified diploma printing press cheapening the value of an education that I am sure many of those students paid BIG BUCUKS for and are still required to pay in terms of student loans taken out as a student. But I could get into a whole other thread about the shell game a lot of universities are anyways but that's besides the point.


This is a tad overboard. I hold a diploma from UNC, and while I'm ashamed at what happened, I don't feel the value of my degree is cheapened at all. Like most students, I worked my tail off to earn my degree and wouldn't trade my experience in Chapel Hill for anything.

[Boston Red]

I also have a degree from UNC, but I didn't take any classes in the affected department, so I'm not too concerned with the need to turn my diploma into toilet paper. Definitely a black eye for the university, but UNC is going to continue to be very well-respected as an academic institution.

I would be none too pleased, though, if I was an African American studies major who took legit courses in the department to earn my degree.

[RiverRat13]

To me, this particular aspect of the NC cheating narrative is more of a SACs issue than an athletic department issue. Obviously, that would be a huge hit to the prestige of the university if it were put on that type of probation. If I'm UNC, I ditch athletics altogether rather than jepaordize SACs standing.

It sounds like SACS is staying out of it.

[Assembly Hall]

No. I'm super duper serious.

LMAO...........I expect nothing less from an Auburn fan!

[jojo]

LMAO...........I expect nothing less from an Auburn fan!

Quit being a turd.

[Assembly Hall]

Quit being a turd.


LOL.........sorry, I couldn't help myself!!!!!!!!

[jojo]

LOL.........sorry, I couldn't help myself!!!!!!!!

FYI, Auburn is one of the toughest universities in the US in which to earn an A.

[Assembly Hall]

FYI, Auburn is one of the toughest universities in the US in which to earn an A.


And they have never had any NCAA sanctions either, right?

[jojo]

And they have never had any NCAA sanctions either, right?

And again, quit being a turd especially if you're not even willing to entertain reality.

[Assembly Hall]

And again, quit being a turd especially if you're not even willing to entertain reality.

Jojo, you crack me up. I enjoy your posts. My reality is that the NCAA needs to come down really hard on UNC. If they don't, media involvement or not, then they are a joke.

[Boston Red]

FYI, Auburn is one of the toughest universities in the US in which to earn an A.

I've got to go with UNLV here. Too many distractions.

[jojo]

I've got to go with UNLV here. Too many distractions.

http://coed.com/2013/11/15/here-are-the-16-colleges-and-universities-where-its-the-hardest-to-get-an-a/

[RedTeamGo!]

FYI, Auburn is one of the toughest universities in the US in which to earn an A.

Just out of curiosity, do you mean for athletes or students in general? I don't know much about the school, but from a quick search on US News: Education, Auburn is ranked 103rd best university in the country and has an 82.7% acceptance rate. That does not seem like a very competitive environment.

Although, I suppose if the school is accepting that many people the poor quality of students could make it appear as if it is difficult to get an A...

[Assembly Hall]

I've got to go with UNLV here. Too many distractions.


Now that is some funny stuff! Heck, I would have never went to class...let alone try to get an "A".

[Assembly Hall]

Just out of curiosity, do you mean for athletes or students in general? I don't know much about the school, but from a quick search on US News: Education, Auburn is ranked 103rd best university in the country and has an 82.7% acceptance rate. That does not seem like a very competitive environment.

Although, I suppose if the school is accepting that many people the poor quality of students could make it appear as if it is difficult to get an A...

And my spleen just burst!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jojo]

And my spleen just burst!!!!!!!!!!!!

Actually it was probably your colon given your contributions of late.

[jojo]

Just out of curiosity, do you mean for athletes or students in general? I don't know much about the school, but from a quick search on US News: Education, Auburn is ranked 103rd best university in the country and has an 82.7% acceptance rate. That does not seem like a very competitive environment.

Although, I suppose if the school is accepting that many people the poor quality of students could make it appear as if it is difficult to get an A...

What it means is that grade inflation isn't as pervasive at Auburn than at other institution. Concerning the other points:

Auburn University is a land grant university in the south. A primary mission is lifting up under represented communities. For much of the 2000's Auburn had increased their admissions standards and acceptance rates were as low as the high 60's. That increased retention rates but it also decreased access to students in rural areas. I would argue that this is morally wrong, especially for a land grant university. As part of the statewide strategy, the community college system has been restructured to essentially act as a feeder system with the model being that students from underrepreseted areas could track through community colleges before coming to Auburn/UAB/Bama. Auburn has also increased the number of merit scholarships to attract outstanding out of state students. Both of these issues have pushed the acceptance rates higher in recent years as in theory, the quality of the incoming student has increased but the admissions standards have not decreased. That this is working is starting to be seen in increasing rentention rates.

I would argue that these are signs of a robust academic environment and surveys such as the one posted above are anecdotal evidence which suggest retention rates aren't through artificial grade inflation. Students are earning their A's. Does that mean Auburn is Harvard? No. But it is harder to get an A at Auburn so one might wonder what an A at Harvard actually means.

[RedTeamGo!]

one might wonder what an A at Harvard actually means.

About a million more dollars in annual salary.

But, to be serious about this question: Harvard doesn't just let anybody in. For example, my brother and I went to one of the best private high schools in Ohio, a friend of his graduated valedictorian and got a perfect score on the SAT. He was rejected by Harvard. The types of students at Harvard are not just being given A's for showing up, they are being given A's because they are extraordinarily intelligent and are doing well with their coursework. Having a high acceptance rate (like my alma mater) I believe signals a population of mediocre high school students that were unable to get into the more competitive schools. Mediocre high school students tend to be mediocre college students, at least until they get a kick in the butt and start trying harder.

[jojo]

About a million more dollars in annual salary.

But, to be serious about this question: Harvard doesn't just let anybody in. For example, my brother and I went to one of the best private high schools in Ohio, a friend of his graduated valedictorian and got a perfect score on the SAT. He was rejected by Harvard. The types of students at Harvard are not just being given A's for showing up, they are being given A's because they are extraordinarily intelligent and are doing well with their coursework. Having a high acceptance rate (like my alma mater) I believe signals a population of mediocre high school students that were unable to get into the more competitive schools. Mediocre high school students tend to be mediocre college students, at least until they get a kick in the butt and start trying harder.

Actually you not only need to puch a professor in the nose but you must also bugger his pet sheep in order to get less than an A at Harvard. A grade distrubution is largely determined by the rigor of the professor.

[Assembly Hall]

jojo, your zest never ceases to amaze me. The fact of the matter is what they did at UNC is wrong. You can condone it all you want, but it is wrong. My school got NCAA sanctions for the coach making "illegal" phone calls to recruits for crying out loud. It cost the coach his job and shamed the state. Now we got another basketball powerhouse that is doing academic fraud and athletes were involved in it. So I sit here and say "phone calls" vs. "not going to class". Hmmmmmmmm.

[Hoosier Red]

jojo, your zest never ceases to amaze me. The fact of the matter is what they did at UNC is wrong. You can condone it all you want, but it is wrong. My school got NCAA sanctions for the coach making "illegal" phone calls to recruits for crying out loud. It cost the coach his job and shamed the state. Now we got another basketball powerhouse that is doing academic fraud and athletes were involved in it. So I sit here and say "phone calls" vs. "not going to class". Hmmmmmmmm.

In general, I find it a bad comparison to say well the NCAA punished school X for 1 thing so it has to punish school Y for this seperate thing.
If we can accept what UNC did wasn't that big of a deal, and it would take a lot more convincing that this wasn't a big deal. It shouldn't all of a sudden become a bigger deal because Indiana was punished for a completely different thing 5 years ago.

[jojo]

jojo, your zest never ceases to amaze me. The fact of the matter is what they did at UNC is wrong. You can condone it all you want, but it is wrong. My school got NCAA sanctions for the coach making "illegal" phone calls to recruits for crying out loud. It cost the coach his job and shamed the state. Now we got another basketball powerhouse that is doing academic fraud and athletes were involved in it. So I sit here and say "phone calls" vs. "not going to class". Hmmmmmmmm.

Lets actually be accurate. Your school got in trouble for hiring a guy with problems and then completely failing to monitor him.

[RedTeamGo!]

Wait, is he referring to Kelvin Sampson?

:laugh:

That is like being upset for hiring Jeff Skilling to run your business and being upset when he gets in trouble for fraud and cooking the books.

[Assembly Hall]

Lets actually be accurate. Your school got in trouble for hiring a guy with problems and then completely failing to monitor him.


LOL........touché!

[Assembly Hall]

And another write up........


http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24792411/report-04-05-unc-title-team-had-multiple-player-taking-phony-courses

[WMR]

Someone made a very astute comparison between this situation and how Lance Armstrong handled his downfall. Both engaged in subterfuge and attacking the credibility of the messenger in whichever way possible. The UNC Mafia engaged in morally bankrupt behavior for AT LEAST 18 years.

I'm hoping for a flood of lawsuits and extensive discovery/sworn testimony. The Wainstein Report, honestly, was still a mere scratch of the surface.

[Assembly Hall]

Very interesting statements there........I had a buddy that brought up the question if they would go back to Roy's days at Kansas.

[Slyder]

Very interesting statements there........I had a buddy that brought up the question if they would go back to Roy's days at Kansas.

They'd have to have someone come out and say that they did it at Kansas.

[Assembly Hall]

They'd have to have someone come out and say that they did it at Kansas.

I say they did it at Kansas. LOL

[WMR]

Http://sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2014-11-09/academic-fraud-scandal-bogus-grades-paper-classes-north-carolina-basketball-football-roy-williams-rashad-mccants

[jojo]

If any of you are here for an education, they should have gone to Harvard.

http://media.102jamz.com/audio-embed/99022771/embed.htm?width=714&height=350

[Boston Red]

Tommy Amaker probably tells his basketball players that if they wanted to get an education they should have gone to Princeton.

But if Butch Davis really said that, he's a POS.

[Slyder]

Tommy Amaker probably tells his basketball players that if they wanted to get an education they should have gone to Princeton.

But if Butch Davis really said that, he's a POS.

Following him while he was at the U I already knew he was a pos.

[CrosleyField]

Not a Carolina fan but every school has a BS academic program. UNC just got caught.

[Assembly Hall]

Not a Carolina fan but every school has a BS academic program. UNC just got caught.


To a degree, I can agree with that. But there are schools out there where the head coach wants to see the kids get an education and the right way.......by earning it and it takes priority over what sport they might be playing. Yes, Carolina got caught.

[Chip R]

Now it looks like UNC has been getting players to enroll as grad students to keep them eligible.

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/03/01/report-says-unc-took-advantage-of-grad-school-to-extend-eligibility-of-players/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs

[Assembly Hall]

http://www.newsobserver.com/opinion/op-ed/article22823382.html

[WVRed]

Five severe violations plus the dreaded lack of institutional control.

Whatever the punishment, I'm sure it won't be enough and will be characterized as a death sentence by the Worldwide Leader.

[bucksfan2]

Five severe violations plus the dreaded lack of institutional control.

Whatever the punishment, I'm sure it won't be enough and will be characterized as a death sentence by the Worldwide Leader.

Poor Davidson is going to get hammered!

In all reality the two title banners should be taken down, Williams should be fired ASAP, Butch Davis should have a show clause put on him until he is 100, and the rest of the AD should be cleaned out.

[Assembly Hall]

Poor Davidson is going to get hammered!

In all reality the two title banners should be taken down, Williams should be fired ASAP, Butch Davis should have a show clause put on him until he is 100, and the rest of the AD should be cleaned out.

Kinda funny isnt it? Your beloved Bucks gets hammered over tatoos and my beloved Hoosiers get hammered over improper phone calls. All the while UNC has athletes passing phantom classes. Where is the justice?

[bucksfan2]

Kinda funny isnt it? Your beloved Bucks gets hammered over tatoos and my beloved Hoosiers get hammered over improper phone calls. All the while UNC has athletes passing phantom classes. Where is the justice?

I am still a pretty ardent fan of Tressel. In hindsight I think everything worked out in the best way possible. Tressel's downfall wasn't the tattoo's, it was the lying and withholding information. Whether or not it is rational I still think that Pryor was to Tressel that Art Schlichter was to Woody Hayes, they changed their standards for these guys and it inevitably brought them down. I didn't really follow IU's case, from an outsider's point of view I thought Sampson was an idiot, not in getting caught with phone calls, but the continued usage of cell phone calls after he had been caught.

All that said, UNC ran sham classes, enrolled their best athletes in sham classes. They should get the hammer and I find it unbelievable that a coach doesn't know when his players are taking sham classes.

[Assembly Hall]

I am still a pretty ardent fan of Tressel. In hindsight I think everything worked out in the best way possible. Tressel's downfall wasn't the tattoo's, it was the lying and withholding information. Whether or not it is rational I still think that Pryor was to Tressel that Art Schlichter was to Woody Hayes, they changed their standards for these guys and it inevitably brought them down. I didn't really follow IU's case, from an outsider's point of view I thought Sampson was an idiot, not in getting caught with phone calls, but the continued usage of cell phone calls after he had been caught.

All that said, UNC ran sham classes, enrolled their best athletes in sham classes. They should get the hammer and I find it unbelievable that a coach doesn't know when his players are taking sham classes.

Tattoos, improper phone call, athletes taking sham classes...........hmmmmmmmmm.

[Chip R]

Poor Davidson is going to get hammered!

Funny! While there's a lot of truth to this, remember that the NCAA has hammered Most Favored Programs in the recent past: IU, Kentucky, UCONN, Syracuse, tOSU in football.

[Hoosier Red]

Funny! While there's a lot of truth to this, remember that the NCAA has hammered Most Favored Programs in the recent past: IU, Kentucky, UCONN, Syracuse, tOSU in football.

Actually I'd take issue with the idea that IU was hammered. Kelvin Sampson's punishment was fairly severe, 5 year show cause.
But IU's biggest punishment was essentially self inflicted, just about everyone was thrown off the team and/or left when so many others were being thrown off.

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/indiana/2014/04/02/indiana-hoosiers-basketball-kelvin-sampson/7225617/


The Hoosiers received three years' probation and no further punishments beyond those previously self-imposed and already served or being served.

[bucksfan2]

Funny! While there's a lot of truth to this, remember that the NCAA has hammered Most Favored Programs in the recent past: IU, Kentucky, UCONN, Syracuse, tOSU in football.

IU got hammered that is for sure, however I tend to believe that had more to do with Sampson's stupidity than anything else. Also I think that Crean went about a curious rebuilding process. UK was hammered before College Basketball was as big of business as it is now. Syracuse got off easy, real easy, if you ask me. I wouldn't really consider UCONN a Most Favored Program when no big conference wanted them during conference realignment. They did hit OSU, but I don't know how hard. They pretty much were sidelined for two seasons, one when they were bad and one on probation.

But a bigger question is, does the NCAA need your Most Favorite Programs anymore? Basketball has survived with UCLA being a down for a long period of time now, it has survived with IU being a doormat for 5 years. College Football has survived with ND being down and UM being terrible for the better half of this decade. The structure is set up for success regardless of which power program is up or down. Lets say that the NCAA decides Roy Williams must go, the team will lose scholarships over a couple of years, and has a one to two season postseason ban, will that hurt CBB? It will hurt UNC, probably help out Duke and NC State as well as other power programs getting recruits who would go to UNC. But at the end of the day CBB is going to be as strong as it was last season.

[WMR]

The AFRI/AFAM department created anomalous courses that
NOTICE OF ALLEGATIONS
Case No. 00231
May 20, 2015
Page No. 49
__________
The AFRI/AFAM department created anomalous courses that went unchecked for 18 years.
This allowed individuals within ASPSA to use these
courses through special arrangements to maintain the eligibility of academically
at-risk student-athletes, particularly in the sports of football, men's basketball and
women's basketball.

[WMR]

UNC is going to try to lawyer their way out of this. They've completely sold their souls over this scandal to try to protect men's hoops, why stop now? They will only accept blame and punishment for their undeniable cheating conspiracy if they are dragged kicking and screaming from their cave of denial and obfuscation into the light.

It will be interesting to see if the NCAA does in fact drop the hammer or creates an alibi that lets Carolina escape with minimal damage?

The 2005 and 2009 banners should be coming down without question if UNC is treated as harshly/fairly as other "rogue" programs. Every game where an ineligible player participated should be vacated.

[Chip R]

But a bigger question is, does the NCAA need your Most Favorite Programs anymore? Basketball has survived with UCLA being a down for a long period of time now, it has survived with IU being a doormat for 5 years. College Football has survived with ND being down and UM being terrible for the better half of this decade. The structure is set up for success regardless of which power program is up or down. Lets say that the NCAA decides Roy Williams must go, the team will lose scholarships over a couple of years, and has a one to two season postseason ban, will that hurt CBB? It will hurt UNC, probably help out Duke and NC State as well as other power programs getting recruits who would go to UNC. But at the end of the day CBB is going to be as strong as it was last season.

As you said in your post, even if MFP 1 is down, MFP 2 may be up. Bottom line is fans need some team or teams to root for and against. If it's not Kentucky and Indiana, it's Duke and North Carolina. We say we want parity but we secretly want the flagship program to root against. It wouldn't be near as fun beating Kentucky of they were an also ran than it would be now. Sure, it's nice to have schadenfreude when a program you hate is going through some lean years but it's nice to throw rocks at them and occasionally beat them when they are elite.

[WVRed]

UNC is going to try to lawyer their way out of this. They've completely sold their souls over this scandal to try to protect men's hoops, why stop now? They will only accept blame and punishment for their undeniable cheating conspiracy if they are dragged kicking and screaming from their cave of denial and obfuscation into the light.

It will be interesting to see if the NCAA does in fact drop the hammer or creates an alibi that lets Carolina escape with minimal damage?

The 2005 and 2009 banners should be coming down without question if UNC is treated as harshly/fairly as other "rogue" programs. Every game where an ineligible player participated should be vacated.

ESPN and USA Today had articles which suggested Daggum Roy should get off since he was only implicated once.

If UNC does lawyer up would it be the first time any university has taken the NCAA to court? I know it's more common in the pros especially the NFL with Brady and others.

[Assembly Hall]

ESPN and USA Today had articles which suggested Daggum Roy should get off since he was only implicated once.

If UNC does lawyer up would it be the first time any university has taken the NCAA to court? I know it's more common in the pros especially the NFL with Brady and others.

TBH, I wouldnt at all be surprised if the feds get involved in this like they did with MLB concerning roids.

[WVRed]

TBH, I wouldnt at all be surprised if the feds get involved in this like they did with MLB concerning roids.

In some ways, although if the NCAA does nothing it may very well happen. UNC is making education a sham as a whole and might as well be a diploma mill.

Comparing it to MLB though? I can see the case with UNC given education is involved but the Feds had less business getting involved with MLB.

[Chip R]

UNC on Double Secret Probation by the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2015/6/11/8766481/university-north-carolina-probation-accreditation

[Assembly Hall]

UNC on Double Secret Probation by the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2015/6/11/8766481/university-north-carolina-probation-accreditation

And that just gives me a "Longhorn" the size of Texas. John Belushi is smiling right now. Love the "Animal House" reference!

[Reds Freak]

Reforms the University has taken over the last few years: http://carolinacommitment.unc.edu/

[WMR]

Reforms the University has taken over the last few years: http://carolinacommitment.unc.edu/

We're sorry we got caught, honest. :rolleyes:

Carolina has tried to obfuscate and deny at every turn.

They are absolutely without honor.

[Assembly Hall]

We're sorry we got caught, honest. :rolleyes:

Carolina has tried to obfuscate and deny at every turn.

They are absolutely without honor.

They haven't had any honor for 20 years now.

[Chip R]

A former women's basketball player at UNC believes that the women's basketball program is going to be the fall guy (girl) when the dust settles on this.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaab-the-dagger/ex-north-carolina-player--women-s-basketball-being-made-a--scapegoat--153557417.html

[gonelong]

A former women's basketball player at UNC believes that the women's basketball program is going to be the fall guy (girl) when the dust settles on this.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaab-the-dagger/ex-north-carolina-player--women-s-basketball-being-made-a--scapegoat--153557417.html

That sucks, but it is hardly a surprise. If you damage either/both of you two revenue generators you automatically damage the rest of your sports programs. On the surface I would think this has a lot more to do with money than it does with it being a women's team. I suspect mens wrestling, volleyball, lacrosse, etc. would also be tossed under the bus to protect the revenue stream sports. Perhaps I am wrong in this assumption, I guess time will tell.

GL

[Boston Red]

Mentioned at the bottom of the article (and apparently not mentioned in the editorial by the former player), is that women's basketball is mentioned more than the other two sports in the NCAA's inquiry letter. So one would suspect they would come up more in the response, as well.

Also, Williams getting an extension and Hatchell not getting one yet might have something to do with the fact that UNC's women's program is kind of a mess these days.

[Chip R]

That sucks, but it is hardly a surprise. If you damage either/both of you two revenue generators you automatically damage the rest of your sports programs. On the surface I would think this has a lot more to do with money than it does with it being a women's team. I suspect mens wrestling, volleyball, lacrosse, etc. would also be tossed under the bus to protect the revenue stream sports. Perhaps I am wrong in this assumption, I guess time will tell.

GL

It's a unique situation. Usually when there are shenanigans in one revenue producing program, a non-revenue program doesn't suffer. When tOSU football went on probation, the field hockey team didn't suffer AFAIK. But it seems that not only was football and men's basketball involved in this scandal but women's basketball was too. Their hands weren't probably clean. But it seems like this player believes that football and men's basketball will get off pretty much scot free and the women's basketball program will probably lose scholarships and their coach(es) will be fired.

[gonelong]

It's a unique situation. Usually when there are shenanigans in one revenue producing program, a non-revenue program doesn't suffer. When tOSU football went on probation, the field hockey team didn't suffer AFAIK.

Agreed, but tOSU didn't get hit in the pocketbook much. They lost out on a bowl. Crowds still came, merchandise still sold, etc. Depends on how deep the NCAA hits UNC to see if it has any real damage on the money makers.


But it seems that not only was football and men's basketball involved in this scandal but women's basketball was too. Their hands weren't probably clean. But it seems like this player believes that football and men's basketball will get off pretty much scot free and the women's basketball program will probably lose scholarships and their coach(es) will be fired.

Concur. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

GL

[Assembly Hall]

Poor Roy.......

http://zagsblog.com/articles/north-carolina-picked-to-win-acc-but-roy-williams-says-scandal-has-hurt-recruiting/

[WMR]

Poor Roy.......

http://zagsblog.com/articles/north-carolina-picked-to-win-acc-but-roy-williams-says-scandal-has-hurt-recruiting/

These daggum kids just don't wanna come here no more now that they actually have to go to class.

I need a Co coler.

[Slyder]

Poor Roy.......

http://zagsblog.com/articles/north-carolina-picked-to-win-acc-but-roy-williams-says-scandal-has-hurt-recruiting/

Let me play the world's smallest violin for these bunch of hyprocrits.

[Assembly Hall]

These daggum kids just don't wanna come here no more now that they actually have to go to class.

I need a Co coler.

LMAO........funny thing is they just hired Sean May, one of the guys that took the "classes". I will try to dig up some articles.

[Chip R]

LMAO........funny thing is they just hired Sean May, one of the guys that took the "classes". I will try to dig up some articles.

That's some big time hubris there.

[cumberlandreds]

But they are ranked number one going into this season and picked by most to win the ACC. So cry me a river Roy. No one is listening.

[Assembly Hall]

But they are ranked number one going into this season and picked by most to win the ACC. So cry me a river Roy. No one is listening.

Some say that is why UNC is "stalling" the procedure.

[WMR]

Some say that is why UNC is "stalling" the procedure.

Yes. They "discovered" some additional improprieties within their soccer program and of course had to self-report. :rolleyes: It's a completely transparent attempt to delay their punishment until after this season when they have final four ambitions.

They have spent MILLIONS of dollars on PUBLIC FREAKING RELATIONS to put that special "Carolina Way" spin on their decades of cheating and assorted other transgressions. :lol:

They've obfuscated and denied at every turn.

[Assembly Hall]

Yes. They "discovered" some additional improprieties within their soccer program and of course had to self-report. :rolleyes: It's a completely transparent attempt to delay their punishment until after this season when they have final four ambitions.

They have spent MILLIONS of dollars on PUBLIC FREAKING RELATIONS to put that special "Carolina Way" spin on their decades of cheating and assorted other transgressions. :lol:

They've obfuscated and denied at every turn.

It is just painful for me to watch it unfold.

[Chip R]

UNC records show deep dependence on fake classes

Architect of bogus classes got retirement party supported by athletes’ tutoring program

Huge volume of new records made public after media request

Multiple references to athletes’ cheating beyond African studies department

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article43676205.html?ref=yfp

[Assembly Hall]

UNC records show deep dependence on fake classes

Architect of bogus classes got retirement party supported by athletes’ tutoring program

Huge volume of new records made public after media request

Multiple references to athletes’ cheating beyond African studies department

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article43676205.html?ref=yfp

I have always thought that this runs deeper than what was first reported.

[Reds Freak]

UNC records show deep dependence on fake classes

Architect of bogus classes got retirement party supported by athletes’ tutoring program

Huge volume of new records made public after media request

Multiple references to athletes’ cheating beyond African studies department

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article43676205.html?ref=yfp

This isn't a defense of Carolina but if you've been following this story, there is absolutely nothing new in this article.

[jojo]

This isn't a defense of Carolina but if you've been following this story, there is absolutely nothing new in this article.

Yep.

And there were no hookers either.

[Assembly Hall]

Yep.

And there were no hookers either.

That we know of.......yet!!!!!!!!!!!

[Assembly Hall]

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/education/article44662989.html

[Assembly Hall]

http://oi66.tinypic.com/149767p.jpg

[Chip R]

The revised allegations are out and the serious allegations against football and men's basketball have been removed.

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/unc/article73829487.html

[Slyder]

The revised allegations are out and the serious allegations against football and men's basketball have been removed.

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/unc/article73829487.html

I wonder how many bribe.. I mean Campaign Contributions had to be paid out.

[Chip R]

I wonder how many bribe.. I mean Campaign Contributions had to be paid out.

Seems like a couple of the main people involved won't talk to the NCAA and since they don't have subpoena power they can't prove anything.

[Assembly Hall]

All I can do is just shake my head. Thank God 'Nova won the title this year.

[Assembly Hall]

http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/north-carolina-has-reportedly-received-another-ncaa-notice-of-allegations/