Pete Rose's Gambling vs. PEDs

[RedsFan83]

A friend of mine posted this article on his facebook page I wanted to share it here with other Reds fans.. Its a pretty good read

http://voices.yahoo.com/baseballs-integrity-betting-vs-peds-12257378.html?cat=14

[Dwarftree]

Good read. And i could not agree more with the author.

Sure. Morality is a VERY subjective value. But as i am concerned with all the drug cheats i´d go with "Two Strikes and you are out". First time caught: 100 games suspension. 2nd time caught: Out for life, contract void and all your stats are wiped. I cannot tell you how tired i am of all the cheaters in all the sports. And quite honestly i am waiting for years now that half of the NFL goes bust.

As for Charlie Hustle: By now i think it is just ridiculous that he is still banned from MLB. But as said: Morality is a VERY subjective value.

[bob jones]

betting on your team is an insidious violation

lets see the reds were in second place and had an upcoming series with the first place team, , instead of pitching the ace against the first place team,, rose who was in debt could conceivable have pitched the ace against a lesser team increasing the chance of a victory in that game but hurting the team overall

[NebraskaRed]

betting on your team is an insidious violation

lets see the reds were in second place and had an upcoming series with the first place team, , instead of pitching the ace against the first place team,, rose who was in debt could conceivable have pitched the ace against a lesser team increasing the chance of a victory in that game but hurting the team overall

Except there's absolutely no evidence to suggest he did anything like that. They know he bet on the Reds to win, but there is zero...0.0...evidence that he ever did anything like what you suggested.

[bob jones]

A person would have to go look at every series, every game, to determine that, I n addition, the short term benefit of winning a particular game might have influenced him to use a lefty like Rob Murphy excessively to the detriment of the team long term, these microdecisions are ultimately unknowable and unprovable but given his addiciton, there is no telling what internal gyrations he went through to attempt to win a Pyrrhic victory

[George Anderson]

Except there's absolutely no evidence to suggest he did anything like that. They know he bet on the Reds to win, but there is zero...0.0...evidence that he ever did anything like what you suggested.

You can find instances however where he could have brought John Franco in to close out a game but instead brought Tim Birtsas in because he did not have money riding on the game and wanted to save Franco for the next night when he did have money on the game.

People don't realize Pete wouldn't mind getting into the HOF but his real motivation is to get back into baseball. Why is that you might ask? Because getting back into baseball means a steady paycheck. While the HOF would mean a little more attention which would mean more a little more revenue it would not equal a steady paycheck that he would receive managing or coaching.

With Pete, its all about money.

[bob jones]

Exactly right, when a person has a suspect character, every decision that is made can be evaluated through different prisms and filters, each choice of pinch runner, pinch hitter, lineup placement, starting pitcher etc is subject to scrutiny

[NebraskaRed]

Oh, I'm not saying he didn't do those things, I'm saying that it simply cannot be proven one way or the other. The Dowd report (http://www.thedowdreport.com/ - the whole thing, if you have a month to kill) doesn't indicate anything like that.

He very well could have done something like this, but Rose did enough that was against the rules for us to discuss (provable things). There's not much purpose in speculating on what was in his head during this game or that.

[New York Red]

Pete got what he deserved and he willingly accepted the penalty at the time. Baseball is better off without him. I'd ban the cheaters as well.

[tomnuetten]

betting on your team is an insidious violation

lets see the reds were in second place and had an upcoming series with the first place team, , instead of pitching the ace against the first place team,, rose who was in debt could conceivable have pitched the ace against a lesser team increasing the chance of a victory in that game but hurting the team overall

betting on the opponent and lose games is easier than bet on your team and win...

if he didn´t mind hurting his team (as you said), why didn´t bet on the opponent and made some poor decisions with the lineup and ingame decisions?

I don´t like betting on baseball and I don´t like cheating on drugs, but I can´t understand the mlb in some points..

ryan braun?! ok 60 games is enough, a-rod 200 games, betting on your baseball team => lifetime ban

[bob jones]

agreed that the penalties are whimsical and capricious, Braun lied the same percentage of times that Rose lied, One hundred per cent

[NorCal Reds Fan]

Would like to see Rose in the HOF, do feel he's served his penance. Likewise think that Clemens and Bonds belong, although if I could only pick one I'd go with Pete. But one of those issues that I just can't get too riled up over either way...if none of them ever get in, c'est la vie.

[markymark69]

I think part of Pete's problem is that he lied for so long. That's what people don't like, imo. I think that is what is being held against him. Also he used his coming out and telling the truth as a cash grab for his new book. Also being held against him. He lost some sympathizers there I think with that move.

Pete was also one of those players, like A-Rod, you either love him or hate him. In baseball circles - there are more that hate him than love him.

Pete's situation may never change, but if it does, someone else will be commissioner and I also think Pete will be long dead when it or if it ever happens.

[dubc47834]

Except there's absolutely no evidence to suggest he did anything like that. They know he bet on the Reds to win, but there is zero...0.0...evidence that he ever did anything like what you suggested.

There is zero evidence both ways...just the word of a man who can't be trusted!

[armybrat45103]

Except there's absolutely no evidence to suggest he did anything like that. They know he bet on the Reds to win, but there is zero...0.0...evidence that he ever did anything like what you suggested.

So knowing Pete as we all do now, you would trust his character on that?

[armybrat45103]

I think part of Pete's problem is that he lied for so long. That's what people don't like, imo. I think that is what is being held against him. Also he used his coming out and telling the truth as a cash grab for his new book. Also being held against him. He lost some sympathizers there I think with that move.

Pete was also one of those players, like A-Rod, you either love him or hate him. In baseball circles - there are more that hate him than love him.

Pete's situation may never change, but if it does, someone else will be commissioner and I also think Pete will be long dead when it or if it ever happens.

His greed and inability to tell the truth is what turned me against him. Was his biggest fan back in the 70's, 80's, and even the early 90's. He took me, and all of the city, for fools. He won't get that chance again.

[NebraskaRed]

So knowing Pete as we all do now, you would trust his character on that?

Never said I believed him. I said we have no idea what was going on in his head while he managed games, so it's pointless to speculate about it. We do know that the Dowd report (put together by people who wanted him banned for life) showed that they couldn't find any evidence that he ever bet against the Reds, or purposefully did something in one game that caused them to lose just so that they'd have a better chance of winning another game.

[armybrat45103]

I disagree. The last thing those men wanted was to find out the allegations were, in fact, true. No one wanted this on Pete or baseball.

[RedsBaron]

People don't realize Pete wouldn't mind getting into the HOF but his real motivation is to get back into baseball. Why is that you might ask? Because getting back into baseball means a steady paycheck. While the HOF would mean a little more attention which would mean more a little more revenue it would not equal a steady paycheck that he would receive managing or coaching.

I agree with that. I think most fans are more interested in Rose being in the HOF than they are in Rose being involved again in MLB, but I think Rose is actually more interested in returning to the game than being in the HOF.

[Dwarftree]

Sure Pete Rose lied for too long. Pretty obvious. Had he "come out" ealier, he might be back in the game by now. And sure he did it all because of money. But what about all the drug cheats? What do they do that for? Fame? Statistics? Maybe. But at the end of the day it all comes down to money as well. No contract? No fame and no stats ... and no money.

Did you read the twitter entry from Dan Meyer, former relieve pitcher of the Phillies after he learned that he lost his job to the now convicted cheater Antonio Bastardo? Why do you think Bastardo went to Biogenesis? Because he wanted to get a contract. Because he wanted to make money.

There was a very interesting interview in a german magazine these days with a former world class female shot putter who always came up short, becoming second or third at the Olympics or at world championships only to learn years later that a lot of the athletes that wound up in front of her were juiced and got stripped of their medals. And in athletics (at least over here) only the superstars can live from their sport. Gold is all that counts. Gold gives you sponsors. So the shot putter lost a s***load of money because of doped opponents.

As usual: It all comes down to the bucks. And the same thing happens in the Majors. So i think, compared to all the juiced players, that get a second or even a third chance for Rose it is unfair that he still is not allowed back while someone like A-Rod is still allowed to play.

[RedsFan83]

Sure Pete Rose lied for too long. Pretty obvious. Had he "come out" ealier, he might be back in the game by now. And sure he did it all because of money. But what about all the drug cheats? What do they do that for? Fame? Statistics? Maybe. But at the end of the day it all comes down to money as well. No contract? No fame and no stats ... and no money.

Did you read the twitter entry from Dan Meyer, former relieve pitcher of the Phillies after he learned that he lost his job to the now convicted cheater Antonio Bastardo? Why do you think Bastardo went to Biogenesis? Because he wanted to get a contract. Because he wanted to make money.

There was a very interesting interview in a german magazine these days with a former world class female shot putter who always came up short, becoming second or third at the Olympics or at world championships only to learn years later that a lot of the athletes that wound up in front of her were juiced and got stripped of their medals. And in athletics (at least over here) only the superstars can live from their sport. Gold is all that counts. Gold gives you sponsors. So the shot putter lost a s***load of money because of doped opponents.

As usual: It all comes down to the bucks. And the same thing happens in the Majors. So i think, compared to all the juiced players, that get a second or even a third chance for Rose it is unfair that he still is not allowed back while someone like A-Rod is still allowed to play.

I agree 100%

[Chip R]

Why did the PED users use PEDs?

[Moosie52]

I'll never believe Pete bet on the Reds to lose. He was all about the Reds. His ego wouldn't let him think they could lose. That said, he still bet on baseball, and that is wrong.

[bob jones]

Do you think he helped use Jeff Treadway or Guy Hoffman the right way??