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View Full Version : 8/17/13 Reds @ Milwaukee (Let's At Least Sew Up the Split)



ProfessorTofty
08-17-2013, 04:07 PM
First time I've started one of these, thought I'd give it a try. Reds lineup today:

1. Choo (CF)
2. Frazier (3B)
3. Votto (1B)
4. Phillips (2B)
5. Bruce (RF)
6. Ludwick (LF)
7. Cozart (SS)
8. Mesoraco (C)
9. Latos (RHP)


Mat Latos has 16 consecutive scoreless innings and will be looking to extend that streak. The Reds will be facing Yovani Gallardo, who is 6-6 with a 4.53 ERA against the Reds.

NebraskaRed
08-17-2013, 04:12 PM
I like the matchup today between Latos and Gallardo. I like the lineup, too. Although, I'd switch Mesoraco and Cozart.

ProfessorTofty
08-17-2013, 04:26 PM
Don't forget-- first pitch tonight is at 7:10 P.M. eastern time-- that's an hour earlier than the previous two games.

50YrRedsFan
08-17-2013, 05:11 PM
Good news from Pittsburgh.....AZ 5 - PIT 0, top 3

Cubs - Cards scoreless, top 4. edit: Cards now 1-0, top 4

2nd edit: AZ now 8-0 over PIT, top 3

Matt700wlw
08-17-2013, 05:33 PM
I like the matchup today between Latos and Gallardo. I like the lineup, too. Although, I'd switch Mesoraco and Cozart.

Catchers bat 8th, dude.

RedsBrick
08-17-2013, 05:37 PM
That's a good line-up, especially if Frazier continues his hitting ways AND when Ludwick starts producing...just a matter of time.

Matt700wlw
08-17-2013, 05:38 PM
Ludwick will get his first hit tonight.

ProfessorTofty
08-17-2013, 06:21 PM
Programming note-- those of you who watch in the Columbus area will be watching on the alternate channel. Hopefully there isn't any of the weirdness this time that there was last time.

Big Klu
08-17-2013, 07:11 PM
Programming note-- those of you who watch in the Columbus area will be watching on the alternate channel. Hopefully there isn't any of the weirdness this time that there was last time.

Nope. The alternate channel is showing extreme skiing off the Matterhorn.

:angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:

ProfessorTofty
08-17-2013, 07:12 PM
Nope. The alternate channel is showing extreme skiing off the Matterhorn.

:angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:: angry:
Wow, they screwed up again? Ouch.

Anyway, Choo is out after a 3-2 count.

powersackers
08-17-2013, 07:16 PM
Thought it was a 720 start. I am late!

Tom Servo
08-17-2013, 07:17 PM
1-2-3 go the Redlegs in the first.

Gallen5862
08-17-2013, 07:19 PM
How did the Reds get out?

powersackers
08-17-2013, 07:19 PM
Looks like Frazier and Votto were late too.

Big Klu
08-17-2013, 07:19 PM
Wow, they screwed up again? Ouch.

Anyway, Choo is out after a 3-2 count.

Yep. I'm so PO'ed that I'm almost ready to cancel my cable! :angry:

ProfessorTofty
08-17-2013, 07:21 PM
Aoki flies out.

ProfessorTofty
08-17-2013, 07:24 PM
Milwaukee goes down 1-2-3 also.

Gallen5862
08-17-2013, 07:27 PM
Thanks for the PBP.

ProfessorTofty
08-17-2013, 07:29 PM
No problem. Had to step away for a moment, but anyway, Reds already have two down in the 2nd and Ludwick is the last hope for this inning. Let's see if he can get his first hit since coming back.

Edit: Nope. Hard hit ball, but he grounds out to 1st. Scoreless through 1 1/2.

Big Klu
08-17-2013, 07:34 PM
Good news:
Extreme skiiing is over.

Bad news:
It has been replaced by air rifle target shooting.

ProfessorTofty
08-17-2013, 07:35 PM
Brewers have their first baserunner with Francisco taking a walk.

Big Klu-- I imagine it's hard to know whether to laugh or cry. Cry, I suppose.


Edit: Davis walks, so that's 1st and 2nd for the Brewers after back-to-back walks.

Gennett strikes out. Two out.

Schaefer grounds out; Latos's scoreless streak extends to 18.

ProfessorTofty
08-17-2013, 07:48 PM
Reds down 1-2-3 in the 3rd and this is looking to be a very quick game if it keeps going like this.

Big Klu
08-17-2013, 07:48 PM
Well, the game is finally on, with two outs in the top of the third inning. WTG, Time Warner!

ProfessorTofty
08-17-2013, 07:51 PM
Nevermind. Anyway, glad they finally got it worked out and got the game on.


Edit: Aoki on first with the game's first hit.

Good break on a double play to end the inning. Quiet night here tonight.

Red in Chicago
08-17-2013, 07:59 PM
matt got out of it...nice

Gallen5862
08-17-2013, 08:01 PM
WTG Leake.

PepperJack
08-17-2013, 08:03 PM
Reds hitters do know it's not a getaway day right?

ProfessorTofty
08-17-2013, 08:06 PM
Votto draws a walk and the Reds have their first baserunner.

And now Phillips with one up the middle for the first hit.

Falcon7
08-17-2013, 08:07 PM
Joey is very clean shaven tonight, maybe a hot date...

LexRedsFan
08-17-2013, 08:08 PM
A question for you guys in here who have Directv.

I ordered direct and the guy came out and said he couldn't get a view of the southern sky and canceled my order. Well, tonight a different guy installed a direct system for the people above us (but they put it right outside our ground floor apt). Is there any way I can call them and request another tech come out? I have Time Warner now but love to get rid of it

ProfessorTofty
08-17-2013, 08:08 PM
Ah shoot. Phillips with a baserunning blunder and he gets caught in a rundown.

Falcon7
08-17-2013, 08:08 PM
Is BP smiling after that!

Tom Servo
08-17-2013, 08:08 PM
C'mon, BP.

DocRed
08-17-2013, 08:09 PM
Another "great" play by BP...I'm glad he finds it funny. :confused:

RedsfaninMT
08-17-2013, 08:10 PM
BP's baserunning has been deplorable. With Bruce up there, you have to give him his swings.

TheBigLebowski
08-17-2013, 08:10 PM
We have to be leading the league in dunderheaded baserunning mistakes.

PepperJack
08-17-2013, 08:10 PM
Fuuuuuddddggge!!!!


Only I didn't say fudge.

MillerTime58
08-17-2013, 08:10 PM
I don't think I've ever seen a Reds team that has been worse on the basepaths.

ProfessorTofty
08-17-2013, 08:18 PM
Davis hammers a breaking ball up center, giving the Brewers a 2-out hit. And Gennett on, making it 1st and 2nd.

Mutaman
08-17-2013, 08:18 PM
I had hoped Ludwick's return would somehow end the miserable boneheaded plays and lack of fundamental baseball. Guess not.

ProfessorTofty
08-17-2013, 08:19 PM
Ergh. 2-0 on a double.

Tom Servo
08-17-2013, 08:20 PM
ugh.

redsfaninbsg
08-17-2013, 08:21 PM
Giving the eight hole hitter anything to hit there is just plain bad.

ProfessorTofty
08-17-2013, 08:21 PM
Gallardo grounds out, but not before the Brewers take the lead.

The Operator
08-17-2013, 08:22 PM
Is it bad that I feel like this game's already over?

Maybe last night got to me a little too much. I better go take some pain meds (for realz, actually). :)

Tom Servo
08-17-2013, 08:22 PM
Bitten by Khris Davis, Scooter Gennett, and Logan Schafer of all people.

TheBigLebowski
08-17-2013, 08:23 PM
Latos has very little tonight. And his body language after the missed first pitch strike, the double, and coming off the field lead me to believe that he's gone "Mat" again.

The Operator
08-17-2013, 08:23 PM
I would also like to add that BP is one of the worst base-runners I've ever seen.

I'll never forget the feeling at the ballpark when he ran The Reds out of that potential rally they had going in Game 3 of the NLDS last year. Ugh...

Tom Servo
08-17-2013, 08:25 PM
I would also like to add that BP is one of the worst base-runners I've ever seen.

I'll never forget the feeling at the ballpark when he ran The Reds out of that potential rally they had going in Game 3 of the NLDS last year. Ugh...
I'm an equal opportunity critic of BP, but that play has to be the most overhyped, over-thought of moment in recent Reds history.

The Operator
08-17-2013, 08:26 PM
Ludwick gets on the board!

ProfessorTofty
08-17-2013, 08:26 PM
Ludwick with his first hit since coming off the DL!


And erased by the double play.

The Operator
08-17-2013, 08:27 PM
I'm an equal opportunity critic of BP, but that play has to be the most overhyped, over-thought of moment in recent Reds history.Could be, I never saw it in HD on a replay or anything. I just know it felt like a kick to the groin in person.

The Operator
08-17-2013, 08:27 PM
Aaaand Cozart does his thing. Inning over.

757690
08-17-2013, 08:27 PM
Line drive in the box score Ludwick.

TheBigLebowski
08-17-2013, 08:28 PM
Gallardo's been a batting tee this season but he stymies us.

This is a hangover from last night.

Mutaman
08-17-2013, 08:28 PM
If we drop two in a row to this sorry excuse for a major league team, I'm not going to be happy.

TheBigLebowski
08-17-2013, 08:30 PM
Latos lost his composure last inning.

Wouldn't be surprised to see more damage to come.

The Operator
08-17-2013, 08:30 PM
Gallardo's been a batting tee this season but he stymies us.

This is a hangover from last night.We'll also be facing Wily "Cy Young" Peralta tomorrow. :(

Tom Servo
08-17-2013, 08:31 PM
Boy you guys jump off the bandwagon quickly.

757690
08-17-2013, 08:31 PM
I'm an equal opportunity critic of BP, but that play has to be the most overhyped, over-thought of moment in recent Reds history.

That play in game 3 wasn't dumb on BP's part, it was over-agressive. The type of over-agressiveness baserunning that got the Reds into the playoffs.

Magdal
08-17-2013, 08:31 PM
Ludwick with his first hit since coming off the DL!


And erased by the double play.I MUST take the credit! It was my 1st chance to see him, and I was convinced he would gap one to RF. but, LOL, the infield hit will do. Man he was really motoring down to first. I don't remember him being that fast when he was a Card.....and his swing on strike one was vicious!

Tom Servo
08-17-2013, 08:32 PM
Could be, I never saw it in HD on a replay or anything. I just know it felt like a kick to the groin in person.
Well I don't dispute that it probably sucked to see live, but I just think the criticism of it deals in way to many hypotheticals. BP not being thrown out doesn't mean the inning goes down the same way it did only with BP now scoring.

It was the first out of the game. The Reds ended up having 29 more outs in the game. That's all it was.

TheBigLebowski
08-17-2013, 08:32 PM
Boy you guys jump off the bandwagon quickly.

First of all, no Reds fan can be called a "bandwagon" fan.

Secondly, no one is jumping off this mythical bandwagon by being critical of their play in one game.

The Operator
08-17-2013, 08:32 PM
Latos doesn't have it tonight. Hopefully he can bear down and get us through a few more.

Segura moves the runner over. Apparently other teams can actually execute a bunt. How bout that.

ProfessorTofty
08-17-2013, 08:35 PM
And now a long fly to get him to third base.

The Operator
08-17-2013, 08:35 PM
Boy you guys jump off the bandwagon quickly.Oh I still think things are fine, relatively speaking. At the end of the day we've still got a firm hold on the Wild Card.

I get really negative some times in game, though.

The Operator
08-17-2013, 08:36 PM
Latos DRILLS Ramirez. Yowza.

reds700
08-17-2013, 08:36 PM
Winning streak was fools gold. Still were not hitting well with only 5 or 6 hits a night. Was bound to catch up with them.

ProfessorTofty
08-17-2013, 08:36 PM
And now Ramirez is plunked! First and third.

Tom Servo
08-17-2013, 08:38 PM
Big K! I think Latos has one more frame in him.

Falcon7
08-17-2013, 08:38 PM
can we score a couple?

ProfessorTofty
08-17-2013, 08:39 PM
Struck him out! 2-0-- I'd like to think we can overcome it, but we need to get that offense going!

TheBigLebowski
08-17-2013, 08:39 PM
Winning streak was fools gold. Still were not hitting well with only 5 or 6 hits a night. Was bound to catch up with them.

Fool's gold? How? This team has been winning above a .500 clip all year.

Whereas we reserve the right to critique them when they play poorly, so too must we credit them when they win. And yeah, it WAS bound to catch up with them, as we were going to lose again before the end of the season.

The Operator
08-17-2013, 08:39 PM
Big K! I think Latos has one more frame in him.
That's an ace for ya. Gets you through a game with a chance to win even on nights he doesn't really have it.

What a great trade that was.

TheBigLebowski
08-17-2013, 08:41 PM
Big K! I think Latos has one more frame in him.

I like the fact that he appears to have regained his composure.

I think he could give us another 2 innings.

Bad news on Cueto. We may not see him again this season.

Pitchers are such a fragile commodity.

Mutaman
08-17-2013, 08:42 PM
First of all, no Reds fan can be called a "bandwagon" fan.

Secondly, no one is jumping off this mythical bandwagon by being critical of their play in one game.

Its the Pollyana Club. No criticism, no matter how deserved, is warranted. Its the flip side of the Bash Baker Club.

Some of us just get caught in the middle.

Tom Servo
08-17-2013, 08:42 PM
hit solidily by Rocco, but right at Segura.

ProfessorTofty
08-17-2013, 08:43 PM
Latos sends one to the wall, but it's caught. Good effort to try to help his outing, though.

TheBigLebowski
08-17-2013, 08:43 PM
Latos almost left the yard. Dang.

ProfessorTofty
08-17-2013, 08:45 PM
Choo takes a walk.

Tom Servo
08-17-2013, 08:46 PM
That sure looked like strike 3 to me, but I'll take it.

Falcon7
08-17-2013, 08:46 PM
That was a strike

powersackers
08-17-2013, 08:46 PM
Toddfather let's do this

TheBigLebowski
08-17-2013, 08:46 PM
That sure looked like strike 3 to me, but I'll take it.

Indeed. We have no cause for complaint tonight.

TheBigLebowski
08-17-2013, 08:47 PM
toddfather let's do this

leeroy jenkins!!!!

ProfessorTofty
08-17-2013, 08:49 PM
Foul-out, end of inning.

Falcon7
08-17-2013, 08:51 PM
1 super weak hit that was likely bang bang if the throw was good.

Wonderful Monds
08-17-2013, 08:52 PM
> Gallardo has the 2nd worst ERA of qualified NL starters
> Reds get shut out and only 2 hits through 6

:/

TheBigLebowski
08-17-2013, 08:53 PM
leeroy jenkins!!!!

Toddfather's fate was the same as the late Leeroy's.

powersackers
08-17-2013, 08:53 PM
That's why they call it an average.

Falcon7
08-17-2013, 08:54 PM
1 super weak hit that was likely bang bang if the throw was good.

Ok I missed the BP hit. 5 beers

ProfessorTofty
08-17-2013, 08:59 PM
Schaefer flies out to right-center. Come on, Reds! Offense!

TheBigLebowski
08-17-2013, 08:59 PM
Should be it for Latos. 6 ip, 2 er. No complaints.

DocRed
08-17-2013, 09:01 PM
Pitching good....offense not so good. So what else is new?

ProfessorTofty
08-17-2013, 09:03 PM
Phillips gets another hit. Let's hope this time he doesn't piddle it away.

DocRed
08-17-2013, 09:04 PM
Wow taking Gallardo out?

Red in Chicago
08-17-2013, 09:04 PM
new pitcher coming in...let's get some runs

Gunner44
08-17-2013, 09:04 PM
How many rockets are we gonna hit right at people....sometimes you just gotta laugh

TheBigLebowski
08-17-2013, 09:04 PM
Surprising decision there

gilpdawg
08-17-2013, 09:05 PM
To be fair, it's not like Gallardo sucks. He's been hurt this year. When healthy he's a very good pitcher. Maybe he's healthy now. You can't just look at his stats without context.

ProfessorTofty
08-17-2013, 09:06 PM
Bruce smacks it to left-center! 1st and 2nd. Come on, now.

DocRed
08-17-2013, 09:06 PM
Haha Brewers manager!!

TheBigLebowski
08-17-2013, 09:07 PM
I always hate first pitch swinging, especially when a new pitcher has just been brought in.

Unless it works.

DocRed
08-17-2013, 09:07 PM
3 run jack pls....

Tom Servo
08-17-2013, 09:08 PM
Second hit!

kbrake
08-17-2013, 09:08 PM
I'd send up Xavier Paul for Cozart.

ProfessorTofty
08-17-2013, 09:08 PM
Yes! That one drops for Ludwick and it's bases loaded. Don't destroy my hopes here...

TheBigLebowski
08-17-2013, 09:08 PM
Baseball karma. It exists.

Matt700wlw
08-17-2013, 09:08 PM
Paul for Cozart

ProfessorTofty
08-17-2013, 09:08 PM
I'd send up Xavier Paul for Cozart.
:) Your wish is granted. Paul is in.

DocRed
08-17-2013, 09:08 PM
c'mon X-Man....

Tom Servo
08-17-2013, 09:09 PM
I'd send up Xavier Paul for Cozart.
So would Dusty. :)

Red in Chicago
08-17-2013, 09:09 PM
any bets on who gets picked off this time....just kidding:p

TheBigLebowski
08-17-2013, 09:09 PM
What does this move say about Dusty's confidence in Cozart?

ProfessorTofty
08-17-2013, 09:09 PM
Nooooooo!!!!

Matt700wlw
08-17-2013, 09:09 PM
4-6-3.

This is a sad display

Tom Servo
08-17-2013, 09:10 PM
craaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaap

Billy Hamilton's Legs
08-17-2013, 09:10 PM
not our night

kbrake
08-17-2013, 09:10 PM
Looking like one of those nights for this offense all the hard hit balls right at people. Props to Dusty for giving his team the best chance there with Paul.

PepperJack
08-17-2013, 09:10 PM
No matter the outcome I applaud Dusty for bringing in X, I did not want Cozy with the bases loaded.

BluegrassRedleg
08-17-2013, 09:10 PM
/click

Magdal
08-17-2013, 09:10 PM
Holy shniekees! Luddy is 2 for 2 when I'm watching! Just wait 'till he gets back in his groove......ulg, another DP

TheBigLebowski
08-17-2013, 09:10 PM
Awful move. And this bench is just freaking pathetic.

Matt700wlw
08-17-2013, 09:12 PM
Awful move. And this bench is just freaking pathetic.

It was a good move that didn't work. An awful move would have been pinch hitting Izturis for Cozart

PepperJack
08-17-2013, 09:14 PM
Awful move. And this bench is just freaking pathetic.



The result was awful, the move needed done, IMO, Cozy grounds into plenty of DPs, and the match up favored Paul there.

Tom Servo
08-17-2013, 09:14 PM
Aoki is impossible to get out this series.

TheBigLebowski
08-17-2013, 09:14 PM
It was a good move that didn't work. An awful move would have been pinch hitting Izturis for Cozart

You have to let him hit there. My opinion. It's not like you're pulling aces with Paul off the bench.

Ah, I won't criticize the guy for being proactive. But this bench is simply awful.

DocRed
08-17-2013, 09:14 PM
This offense is offensive

Red in Chicago
08-17-2013, 09:14 PM
i hate slap hitters like aoki

ProfessorTofty
08-17-2013, 09:15 PM
Tagout, throwout double play. Latos with 2 ER through 7.

Tom Servo
08-17-2013, 09:16 PM
Nice DP.

2 more shots.

kbrake
08-17-2013, 09:16 PM
Latos on a night he was clearly struggling a bit and didn't have his best stuff...7 IP 2 ER. Yeah, I'll take that.

kaldaniels
08-17-2013, 09:19 PM
Latos on a night he was clearly struggling a bit and didn't have his best stuff...7 IP 2 ER. Yeah, I'll take that.

I think he looked like a boss out there. Shame things stand where they do.

Tom Servo
08-17-2013, 09:22 PM
blink and you'll miss it inning.

powersackers
08-17-2013, 09:23 PM
All these weak grounders to second just made me puke in my mouth.

Gunner44
08-17-2013, 09:24 PM
This offense can drive one crazy. I still have faith for the post season, but some serious changes need to be made this off season.

Magdal
08-17-2013, 09:24 PM
Nice DP.

2 more shots.I hope it gets to Luddy in the 9th

Gunner44
08-17-2013, 09:25 PM
Why not broxton here? Logan is terrable

ProfessorTofty
08-17-2013, 09:28 PM
Well, one last shot for the Reds here.

PepperJack
08-17-2013, 09:28 PM
Why not broxton here? Logan is terrable



He's waiting for an apology.

kbrake
08-17-2013, 09:30 PM
Brewers only team in baseball not to lose a game when leading after 8. Sounds like they're due.

ProfessorTofty
08-17-2013, 09:32 PM
Frazier strikes out swinging.

TheBigLebowski
08-17-2013, 09:33 PM
Frazier looked....awful.

And Joey follows by hacking at the first pitch.

DocRed
08-17-2013, 09:34 PM
The offense has been weak for several months now......

Red in Chicago
08-17-2013, 09:36 PM
doesn't it seem like the organist is trying to get the reds inspired?

DocRed
08-17-2013, 09:36 PM
Pathetic..

kbrake
08-17-2013, 09:36 PM
At least he was more aggressive instead of a stupid walk. Should at least make Marty happy.

Mutaman
08-17-2013, 09:37 PM
The offense has been weak for several months now......

Hey, they're fourth in the league in something.

ProfessorTofty
08-17-2013, 09:37 PM
Phillips down to his final strike...

kbrake
08-17-2013, 09:38 PM
Diamondbacks series starting Monday is going to be huge.

PepperJack
08-17-2013, 09:38 PM
This one hurts... Go for the split tomorrow.

Tom Servo
08-17-2013, 09:38 PM
We're still bad. Last night we had the offense but not the pitching. Tonight we had the pitching but not the offense. Gonna run out of chances soon.

Falcon7
08-17-2013, 09:38 PM
Woeful...

Red in Chicago
08-17-2013, 09:39 PM
i didn't know goose gossage came back to pitch:thumbdown:

Red Raindog
08-17-2013, 09:39 PM
if you are going to go down -- it might as well be getting the side fanned so there is little suspense

:eek:

BluegrassRedleg
08-17-2013, 09:39 PM
That was three impressive final swings from your 2-3-4 hitters. :(

ProfessorTofty
08-17-2013, 09:40 PM
Well, it looks like my first game thread was a bust in terms of the result. Well, afternoon game tomorrow, we'll hope for the split.

Mutaman
08-17-2013, 09:40 PM
I guess after last night's fiasco the boys just decided to come out and pout. Two straight losses to a Triple A team.

50YrRedsFan
08-17-2013, 09:40 PM
Reds starting pitchers have to throw a shutout in order to get a W. No offense again tonight. 2nd straight night where the Reds could have gained on the leaders, and the offense stayed at the hotel. Only 39 games left. That was an inspired 9th inning.

TheBigLebowski
08-17-2013, 09:41 PM
This is reactionary...and I know it...but this game makes me wonder how much we're going to regret the Phillips and Votto contracts in 3 years. We lost and I'm angry. And if we get a WS victory out of it then it's worth every penny. But these guys are not giving us fair return on the investment thus far. Especially Phillips. And saber or no saber...Marty or no Marty...Dusty lineup, etc. Votto's got work to do to earn that money.

DocRed
08-17-2013, 09:42 PM
This offense is seriously lacking....

Mutaman
08-17-2013, 09:45 PM
This is reactionary...and I know it...but this game makes me wonder how much we're going to regret the Phillips and Votto contracts in 3 years. We lost and I'm angry. And if we get a WS victory out of it then it's worth every penny. But these guys are not giving us fair return on the investment thus far. Especially Phillips. And saber or no saber...Marty or no Marty...Dusty lineup, etc. Votto's got work to do to earn that money.

There is not one player on offense who is not underachieving. Bailey is the only pitcher who is underachieving. Maybe pitching is not the name of the game afterall.

50YrRedsFan
08-17-2013, 09:46 PM
The Reds have the lowest cumulative batting average in the 9th inning in all of MLB.
.172 avg. It's like they just give up.

DocRed
08-17-2013, 09:47 PM
Brooks Jacoby deserves a raise...

Mutaman
08-17-2013, 09:49 PM
The Reds have the lowest cumulative batting average in the 9th inning in all of MLB.
.172 avg. It's like they just give up.

Its not like they're that great shakes in innings 1-8 either.

Falls City Beer
08-17-2013, 09:49 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again. You're not going to tick off a prolonged win streak or dominant two weeks with an offense like the Reds'. It's just not going to happen. No matter how hard they try.

Tony Cloninger
08-17-2013, 09:49 PM
This is reactionary...and I know it...but this game makes me wonder how much we're going to regret the Phillips and Votto contracts in 3 years. We lost and I'm angry. And if we get a WS victory out of it then it's worth every penny. But these guys are not giving us fair return on the investment thus far. Especially Phillips. And saber or no saber...Marty or no Marty...Dusty lineup, etc. Votto's got work to do to earn that money.

In 3 years new TV Contract will make it irrelevant in regards to being able to still sign other players. They will never truly earn that money anyways. BP is not going to get better and Votto is not going to be as good as Miguel Cabrera, which is the only hitter that deserves that type of money.

TheBigLebowski
08-17-2013, 09:50 PM
There is not one player on offense who is not underachieving. Bailey is the only pitcher who is underachieving. Maybe pitching is not the name of the game afterall.

Yovani Gallardo is a batting tee and the Brewers offense is triple A. Latos did a nice job tonight. We pay him for performances like that. It's becoming clearer to me why he tends to lose his composure. This team does him no favors.

I would like to have an open and earnest discussion about Joey Votto. No vitriol or hatred. Just a discussion. I know that can't happen because of the saber vs. non-saber dichotomy with baseball fans. And such discussions can usually cause the originator to head for the hills for all the accusations of ignorance and charlatanism. We seem to all agree that Phillips has been a disappointment...but when it comes to Votto there is just no synthesis.

kaldaniels
08-17-2013, 09:53 PM
Yovani Gallardo is a batting tee and the Brewers offense is triple A. Latos did a nice job tonight. We pay him for performances like that. It's becoming clearer to me why he tends to lose his composure. This team does him no favors.

I would like to have an open and earnest discussion about Joey Votto. No vitriol or hatred. Just a discussion. I know that can't happen because of the saber vs. non-saber dichotomy with baseball fans. And such discussions can usually cause the originator to head for the hills for all the accusations of ignorance and charlatanism. We seem to all agree that Phillips has been a disappointment...but when it comes to Votto there is just no synthesis.

Then start a thread and lay out your case, whatever that may be. His salary is fair game, but so is his overall production and relativity to the rest of the league.

Mutaman
08-17-2013, 09:58 PM
Then start a thread and lay out your case, whatever that may be. His salary is fair game, but so is his overall production and relativity to the rest of the league.

Q: How's your wife?

Henny Youngman: Relative to who?

Mutaman
08-17-2013, 09:59 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again. You're not going to tick off a prolonged win streak or dominant two weeks with an offense like the Reds'. It's just not going to happen. No matter how hard they try.

You know times have changed when FCB is not compalining about the pitching.

OldXOhio
08-17-2013, 10:17 PM
There is not one player on offense who is not underachieving. Bailey is the only pitcher who is underachieving. Maybe pitching is not the name of the game afterall.

How exactly are Bruce, Mes and Choo underachieving? Sure, Votto's power numbers are down, but it's hard to be too critical of a guy with a .900+ OPS.

The longer this goes on, the more I stand by the belief that this offense simply isn't that good. One man's underperforming is another's overrated.

Mutaman
08-17-2013, 10:26 PM
How exactly are Bruce, Mes and Choo underachieving? Sure, Votto's power numbers are down, but it's hard to be too critical of a guy with a .900+ OPS.

The longer this goes on, the more I stand by the belief that this offense simply isn't that good. One man's underperforming is another's overrated.

I expected Bruce to have a breakout year. He continues to put up barely adequate numbers despite playing in a little league park. Choo is hitting .270, is that what you expected at the time of the trade? Didn't you expect more from Mes- more than under .250 and 8 HRs? Is it expecting too much that at some point Votto (or Bruce) would step up and carry this team like Ludwick did last July/August?

Tom Servo
08-17-2013, 10:29 PM
I expected Bruce to have a breakout year. He continues to put up barely adequate numbers despite playing in a little league park.
http://i.imgur.com/vo8YM.gif

Mutaman
08-17-2013, 10:34 PM
The Pollyanna crowd: Don't criticise Joey, don't criticise Bruce, don't criticise Choo. Its all Cozart's fault. :rolleyes:

Tom Servo
08-17-2013, 10:36 PM
The insane logic crowd: We are 69-54, this sucks and is all the fault of our best performing players.

Mutaman
08-17-2013, 10:44 PM
The insane logic crowd: We are 69-54, this sucks and is all the fault of our best performing players.

We're 69-54 because we have a superb pitching staff. Our best performing players are all on the mound. As tonight's game proved once again (the third time we've been shut out by the Brewers!!!) we are doing well despite our pathetic offense. And when you look at the underachieving offense, you have to look at the underachieving stars.

DocRed
08-17-2013, 11:00 PM
Last 3 months...

Pitching A...if not A+
Offense D

Mutaman
08-17-2013, 11:07 PM
Last 3 months...

Pitching A...if not A+
Offense D

Paticularly if you define the "offense" to include running the bases and playing defense.

dsmith421
08-17-2013, 11:34 PM
Choo is hitting .270, is that what you expected at the time of the trade?

Choo this year: .276 .410 .446 .856
Choo career: .287 .386 .463 .848

Choo's 2013 OPS+: 132. Choo's career OPS+: 132.

What the heck are you talking about?

Tom Servo
08-18-2013, 12:04 AM
And when you look at the underachieving offense, you have to look at the underachieving stars.
Our you look at your stars putting up their normal above average/excellent years, and then turn your attention to all of the other positions providing sub .730 OPS, with left field, catcher, and shortstop being the biggest black holes with only decent third base and second base production.


Here's the big problem I have with all the hand-wringing about the offense (which I agree is our weak point): We aren't the only ones. If the Reds offense is pathetic, than I'd like to know what adjective describes Arizona's, who have scored 22 less runs than the Reds (we have them beat in HRs, RBIs, OBP, and OPS as well). Brave new world; pitching is king. It's not as though the rest of the league are the 90s Rockies and the Reds are the only inept ones.

Mutaman
08-18-2013, 12:14 AM
(which I agree is our weak point):

This is why we pay you the big bucks.

Mutaman
08-18-2013, 12:22 AM
Choo this year: .276 .410 .446 .856
Choo career: .287 .386 .463 .848

Choo's 2013 OPS+: 132. Choo's career OPS+: 132.

What the heck are you talking about?

.274 is a long way from .287. Particularly when you factor in the ballpark he's now playing in. I also thought he was much sounder fundamentally than he's shown. That's what the heck I'm talking about.

Tom Servo
08-18-2013, 12:33 AM
This is why we pay you the big bucks.
http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2b4h0f6e11r1cnedo1_500.gif

OldXOhio
08-18-2013, 12:47 AM
I expected Bruce to have a breakout year. He continues to put up barely adequate numbers despite playing in a little league park. Choo is hitting .270, is that what you expected at the time of the trade? Didn't you expect more from Mes- more than under .250 and 8 HRs? Is it expecting too much that at some point Votto (or Bruce) would step up and carry this team like Ludwick did last July/August?

Expectations vs. hopes I guess. I didn't expect Bruce to suddenly become Votto-like, although every year Jay improves and I hope one day he becomes a .300-.350-.550 type. Did I expect more from Mes? Absolutely not, why should I until he gets some regular time under his belt and demonstrates he's a quality hitter. Choo has had some ups and downs, but overall, I couldn't have asked for more out of him knowing his career figures.

When you look at this lineup and have lofty expectations of them, then you're overvaluing them. That's my only point - just too many low OPS types throughout to think they're more than they really are.

Raisor
08-18-2013, 07:48 AM
.274 is a long way from .287. Particularly when you factor in the ballpark he's now playing in. I also thought he was much sounder fundamentally than he's shown. That's what the heck I'm talking about.

His batting average? Really?

I guess that's an opinion, sure.

BuckeyeRedleg
08-18-2013, 09:29 AM
These kinds of duds are going to happen from time to time. It just adds to the bummer of losing the one they should have won on Thursday. Those are the killer losses.

This team can't afford too many more Chapman implosions.