Sad day to be a Baseball fan

[nismoredlegs]

Looking over today's events in the Boston/New York Yankees game I was perplexed at what I saw.

The home plate umpire not throwing out Dempster for the multiple throws towards A-Rod, but instead throwing out Gerardi for throwing his hat.

It seems to me the umpire took his emotions in with his decision and seemed to be playing sides. If that is the case, it is very sad. The day when we can't trust the "truth keepers" of the game, and its easily noticed, and not condemned. Will be the day when I ask for Umpires to be replaced with computers.

Now as a fan of the game, I want to keep it natural, and keep computers out of the game. As of now I am still not a fan of fair/foul instant replay.
I know natural means mistakes will happen, closes calls will be called wrong; I am fine with that.
But to see this home plate umpire steer clear of ruling a game to detour towards pushing their own personal agenda, is selfish, and not what I want to be seen from the Umpires. Stick to calling the shots, not choosing which ones to allow.

I am not contempt with Alex's decisions, but I still expect the rules of the game to be applied fairly. Let the fans chant, yell and curse all they want. But I would love to see the professionals of MLB, or even the gentlemen of the supposed gentlemen's game, to be responsible.

Alex will get his in fair time, there is a reason for the law and the appeals system.


Some people may disagree and say the ump was playing it right. But I just don't see it.

I'd love to hear other people's opinions from here. Not on MLB.com; where it is an E-thug match between Boston and New York.

I love the game of baseball and praise it for the organic and honest feeling it has compared to other sports. I just don't want that to be lost.

Jim Joyce had the guts to swallow his pride and apologize when he realized his mistake, I'd like to see more of that, and no more of this.

Paul Harvey. Good Day.

[tomnuetten]

He had to throw out Girardi (that was a no brainer)...

I think it would have been the better/right decision to throw out dempster too, but I saw lots of times, that after a hbp the ump warns both benches and that´s it (altough one team didn´t do anything wrong)

[SlimJim11]

It seems to me the umpire took his emotions in with his decision and seemed to be playing sides. If that is the case, it is very sad. The day when we can't trust the "truth keepers" of the game, and its easily noticed, and not condemned. Will be the day when I ask for Umpires to be replaced with computers.




I think that day has already passed. Now I don't know how many umps necessarily intentionally play sides with calls, but there seem to be a few umps (looking at you Angel Hernandez) that either do it intentionally or are just so awful at their job that it makes MLB look bad for keeping them around (although I don't know how difficult it would be for MLB to get rid of them with the umpire union).

[George Anderson]

Looking over today's events in the Boston/New York Yankees game I was perplexed at what I saw.

The home plate umpire not throwing out Dempster for the multiple throws towards A-Rod, but instead throwing out Gerardi for throwing his hat.

It seems to me the umpire took his emotions in with his decision and seemed to be playing sides. If that is the case, it is very sad. The day when we can't trust the "truth keepers" of the game, and its easily noticed, and not condemned. Will be the day when I ask for Umpires to be replaced with computers.

Now as a fan of the game, I want to keep it natural, and keep computers out of the game. As of now I am still not a fan of fair/foul instant replay.
I know natural means mistakes will happen, closes calls will be called wrong; I am fine with that.
But to see this home plate umpire steer clear of ruling a game to detour towards pushing their own personal agenda, is selfish, and not what I want to be seen from the Umpires. Stick to calling the shots, not choosing which ones to allow.

I am not contempt with Alex's decisions, but I still expect the rules of the game to be applied fairly. Let the fans chant, yell and curse all they want. But I would love to see the professionals of MLB, or even the gentlemen of the supposed gentlemen's game, to be responsible.

Alex will get his in fair time, there is a reason for the law and the appeals system.


Some people may disagree and say the ump was playing it right. But I just don't see it.

I'd love to hear other people's opinions from here. Not on MLB.com; where it is an E-thug match between Boston and New York.

I love the game of baseball and praise it for the organic and honest feeling it has compared to other sports. I just don't want that to be lost.

Jim Joyce had the guts to swallow his pride and apologize when he realized his mistake, I'd like to see more of that, and no more of this.

Paul Harvey. Good Day.

Girardi threw his hat, that is an automatic ejection.

In the umpires judgement, the first pitch at the legs got away from the pitcher. The second he thought may have been intentional. He did his job and warned both dugouts. An ejection in that instance is not warranted. You never want to overreact and eject players unless you are 100% sure it is deserved.

The umpire did a very good job.

[LexRedsFan]

I watched the replay, and it's pretty clear that the second and third pitches are "at" A Rod after he hits him with the fourth one.

However, I'm honestly not sure you can say they were at him until you see him actually get beaned. Yes, they were inside... But not "diving out of the way" inside. I thought the best way the ump could have handled it was issuing the warnings after the FIRST pitch.

[Larkin Fan]

Girardi threw his hat, that is an automatic ejection.

In the umpires judgement, the first pitch at the legs got away from the pitcher. The second he thought may have been intentional. He did his job and warned both dugouts. An ejection in that instance is not warranted. You never want to overreact and eject players unless you are 100% sure it is deserved.

The umpire did a very good job.

Isn't the act of simply just arguing the warning of both benches grounds for ejection of the manager? It seems I've heard that somewhere (perhaps last year when Hurdle was ejected after Leake hit Harrison and warnings were issued).

[George Anderson]

Isn't the act of simply just arguing the warning of both benches grounds for ejection of the manager? It seems I've heard that somewhere (perhaps last year when Hurdle was ejected after Leake hit Harrison and warnings were issued).

No, once you issue warnings then the next time a player is intentionally thrown out that pitcher and manager is ejected.

Now the key word here is intentional. Just because a warning is given means that if batter is hit that the pitcher and manager must automatically be ejected. We had a situation where we warned both dugouts but a few innings later after a player was hit the HP ump didnt feel it was intentional so he did not eject anyone. Needless to say it got ugly.

[PTjvs]

In all of my years of watching baseball, I honestly do think I have ever seen a HBP that was more obviously intentional than that. I know George likes to defend the umps, but Dempster clearly should have been ejected here.

"A sad day to be a baseball fan" is a little over the top though, wouldn't you say? How about "Umpire messes up a judgement call that turned out to not really matter at all"?

jvs

[klw]

I watched the replay, and it's pretty clear that the second and third pitches are "at" A Rod after he hits him with the fourth one.

However, I'm honestly not sure you can say they were at him until you see him actually get beaned. Yes, they were inside... But not "diving out of the way" inside. I thought the best way the ump could have handled it was issuing the warnings after the FIRST pitch.

I disagree. The second and third pitches were not close to A Rod though they were tailing fastballs. The late movement is exaggerated by the TV angle. The second was not that far from being a strike and Arod didn't even flinch.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130818&content_id=57397850&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

[George Anderson]

In all of my years of watching baseball, I honestly do think I have ever seen a HBP that was more obviously intentional than that. I know George likes to defend the umps, but Dempster clearly should have been ejected here.

"A sad day to be a baseball fan" is a little over the top though, wouldn't you say? How about "Umpire messes up a judgement call that turned out to not really matter at all"?

jvs

and had the umpire ejected Dempster without giving a warning then all we would be talking about is the out of control, renegade umpires who are ejecting players and putting the focus on them.

BTW if you follow along you will know I am very fair in my assessment of umpires. I am quick to criticize as I am to defend.

[PTjvs]

and had the umpire ejected Dempster without giving a warning then all we would be talking about is the out of control, renegade umpires who are ejecting players and putting the focus on them.

BTW if you follow along you will know I am very fair in my assessment of umpires. I am quick to criticize as I am to defend.

You are equally speedy in both cases, but you certainly defend much more often than you criticize. Which is fine, and understandable.

It's easy to play the would-have game, but I completely disagree, and I am very sure the vast majority of people would have agreed with the decision to toss Dempster. Cowherd probably would have said he disagreed, just to stir the pot.

jvs

[757690]

and had the umpire ejected Dempster without giving a warning then all we would be talking about is the out of control, renegade umpires who are ejecting players and putting the focus on them.

BTW if you follow along you will know I am very fair in my assessment of umpires. I am quick to criticize as I am to defend.

I think the issue is whether or not O'Nora should have issued a warning after the first pitch. It's a judgement call, but considering it's in Boston and there have been threats from pitchers that they were going to throw at ARod, I don't think anyone would have blinked if O'Nora issued a warning after a pitch was thrown behind ARod.

[George Anderson]

I think the issue is whether or not O'Nora should have issued a warning after the first pitch. It's a judgement call, but considering it's in Boston and there have been threats from pitchers that they were going to throw at ARod, I don't think anyone would have blinked if O'Nora issued a warning after a pitch was thrown behind ARod.

If there were threats they were gonna throw at Arod then I agree.

[George Anderson]

You are equally speedy in both cases, but you certainly defend much more often than you criticize. Which is fine, and understandable.



Yes it is very understandable when the criticism is coming from people who do not understand the profession of umpiring.

[PTjvs]

If threats were made before the game that Arod was going to be thrown at, warnings should have been issued before the game.

I hadn't heard anything like that, though.

jvs

[757690]

If threats were made before the game that Arod was going to be thrown at, warnings should have been issued before the game.

I hadn't heard anything like that, though.

jvs

I have to look it up, but I read on MLB Trade rumors that many pitchers were saying privately that any PED user was a target. I'm not sure that there were any specific threats against ARod. However, I think every baseball fan was expecting ARod to be thrown at, and even on this board, that option was heavily discussed.

Still, I can't blame O'Nora, it's a tough judgement call either way, and he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

[LexRedsFan]

I disagree. The second and third pitches were not close to A Rod though they were tailing fastballs. The late movement is exaggerated by the TV angle. The second was not that far from being a strike and Arod didn't even flinch.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130818&content_id=57397850&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

This view is much better.

I was judging based on ESPN, who put a red "circle" up showing where each pitch was...the circles are further inside than the pitch actually was. I'll see if I can catch it again today or find a screenshot somewhere.

[kaldaniels]

Would it be fair to say George, that sometimes the sequence of events that happen results in the "wrong" party being tossed? For instance, in football, you always hear, "the second guy to fight gets the flag". Care to expound upon that? Do the umps say anything to the guy being tossed to let them know the ump realizes it wasn't "fair".

I believe that is often the case, and I chalk it up to just being one of those things.

[George Anderson]

Would it be fair to say George, that sometimes the sequence of events that happen results in the "wrong" party being tossed? For instance, in football, you always hear, "the second guy to fight gets the flag". Care to expound upon that? Do the umps say anything to the guy being tossed to let them know the ump realizes it wasn't "fair".

I believe that is often the case, and I chalk it up to just being one of those things.

The less you talk on the field the better off things will be. If the situation arose where I had to eject a pitcher following a warning and regardless if he was or wasn't the one who started it. I would eject, explain to the coach I felt he tried to hit the batter intentionally and that he was ejected. I would say nothing more regardless how much the coach tried to plead his case. The decision has been made and the only thing a long discussion will do is get me to say something to enrage the coach or incriminate myself and get me in trouble after the game. Silence is golden.

[GotHeeeeem]

If you really want PEDs out of the game this is how it is gunna happen, the players policing it.

At this point its obvious the MLB penalties aren't doing the trick.

In fact I think its opposite of the original poster. That day was a good day to be a baseball fan because it became clear that there are players against it, just not talking against it for media reasons.

[Dwarftree]

At this point its obvious the MLB penalties aren't doing the trick.

Thats the main issue. Penalties need to be MUCH harsher than they are atm. Strike the cheaters and strike them hard. First time caught? 100 games ban without pay. Second time caught? You are outta here. All records strapped, contract void. No money.

And i think the players should really step up more and put pressure on the Players Union to maybe even alter the CBA in that way. Because clean players are the ones i realy feel sorry for. Loosing their jobs to cheaters must feel really bad.