Browns trade Trent Richardson

[cincrazy]

In last year's draft, the Cleveland Browns traded four picks to move up ONE spot for Trent Richardson. Today, they trade him to the Colts for a first round pick that's likely to be in the twenties.

I just.... I don't even know. Thank the good Lord I'm a Bengals fan (growing up, I never thought I'd be able to utter those words).

[IslandRed]

This sort of thing can happen when new ownership/management takes over, although it usually happens during the offseason. They get an extra #1, they get even worse in the meantime... definitely indicates they're not going to let Jacksonville have the first overall pick without a fight, if that's what you'd call it.

[WVRed]

I don't think it will be a competition. Jacksonville might rival the Houston Astros for best minor league team in all of professional sports. I'd say the Browns will have their choice of Touchdown Teddy or Clowney, whoever Jacksonville passes on.

[KoryMac5]

Browns are stockpiling picks, they must be in love with the 2014 draft. Have fun selling that to season ticket holders.

[Tom Servo]

lol

[19braves77]

Roll Tide

He should do well in Colts system.

[Wonderful Monds]

What. The. Hell.

[KronoRed]

I don't really see it as a bad deal, I don't think Richardson is an all world back waiting to happen.

[kaldaniels]

The cost of acquiring TRich is moot now.

I think they got fair market value for him. Perhaps more (many people think its foolish to use a first rounder on a RB unless he is AP). For whatever reason, he has not impressed so far. Gonna have to let this play out.

[Razor Shines]

As a Colts fan I can't say I'm super impressed by this move. Again, unless he's AP I'm not sure a back is going to be the difference in being a good team and a championship team.

[Yachtzee]

I think the problem with this trade is that Browns management appears to be telling the players and fans they're already throwing in the towel and thinking about next season, even when it's not your intent. You never want the players or fans to think that. This kind of stuff reminds me of the dark days of the Bengals, when players couldn't wait to get out of town when their contracts were up and the games were blacked out because they couldn't sell out.

[MWM]

I think the problem with this trade is that Browns management appears to be telling the players and fans they're already throwing in the towel and thinking about next season, even when it's not your intent. You never want the players or fans to think that. This kind of stuff reminds me of the dark days of the Bengals, when players couldn't wait to get out of town when their contracts were up and the games were blacked out because they couldn't sell out.

This doesn't strike me as a next year move. I'd think it has to go deeper than that. Richardson has played one season in the NFL and many have called him the 2nd most talented back in the NFL behind AP. I'd have thought he would still be the centerpiece to a next year strategy.

There has to be more to this than meets the eye. The Cleveland brass had to have soured on richardson and this makes me wonder what they know that the rest of us don't. This just seems really suspicious to me.

[kaldaniels]

This doesn't strike me as a next year move. I'd think it has to go deeper than that. Richardson has played one season in the NFL and many have called him the 2nd most talented back in the NFL behind AP. I'd have thought he would still be the centerpiece to a next year strategy.

There has to be more to this than meets the eye. The Cleveland brass had to have soured on richardson and this makes me wonder what they know that the rest of us don't. This just seems really suspicious to me.

I think your overall point about the FO souring on him is valid.

But the guy has less than a 3.5 YPC average for his career and has a career long rush of less than 40 yards.

As we sit here today, I see no way anyone calls him the 2nd best back in the league. But we will see.

[MWM]

I think your overall point about the FO souring on him is valid.

But the guy has less than a 3.5 YPC average for his career and has a career long rush of less than 40 yards.

As we sit here today, I see no way anyone calls him the 2nd best back in the league. But we will see.

That may be right. Admittedly, I hadn't watched him much but I have heard plenty of pundits heap that kind of praise on him when it comes to talent. But maybe it's more hype than reality.

This was a pretty good read on it. Maybe he really is just average.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9691534/trent-richardson-game-changer

[kaldaniels]

That may be right. Admittedly, I hadn't watched him much but I have heard plenty of pundits heap that kind of praise on him when it comes to talent. But maybe it's more hype than reality.

This was a pretty good read on it. Maybe he really is just average.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9691534/trent-richardson-game-changer

Good link.

[Razor Shines]

That may be right. Admittedly, I hadn't watched him much but I have heard plenty of pundits heap that kind of praise on him when it comes to talent. But maybe it's more hype than reality.

This was a pretty good read on it. Maybe he really is just average.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9691534/trent-richardson-game-changer

That doesn't make me feel better, but I agree with it.

[traderumor]

I recall a lot of Bengals fans pining for Richardson to be a draft pick. Guess that was our good fortune.

The Browns also are also switching QBs already. I think PB is haunting them.

[bucksfan2]

I think the problem with this trade is that Browns management appears to be telling the players and fans they're already throwing in the towel and thinking about next season, even when it's not your intent. You never want the players or fans to think that. This kind of stuff reminds me of the dark days of the Bengals, when players couldn't wait to get out of town when their contracts were up and the games were blacked out because they couldn't sell out.

This move only make sense if the Browns brass thinks Richardson isn't any good. Its the only reason you move him 2 games into the season to a team that probably will draft no lower than 20 in the upcoming draft.

The part I don't get is this. Lets assume that Richardson improves slightly on his rookie season this year in Cleveland. His trade value may have suffered a little, maybe they could get a high 2 for him. Sure they may have not gotten as much value but they wouldn't have pissed their fan base off. They wouldn't have traded their most marketable player and thrown in the towel for an entire season. The Browns haven't been good for a decade but they are telling their season ticket holders at $75 a game that this season isn't going to matter. And since they are pretty much throwing in the towel on the 2012 draft class the next couple of seasons don't count. If Richardson goes on to be a bust then the Cleveland FO will look like geniuses. Anything other than nailing their draft next season and they will look like idiots.

[remdog]

Anything other than nailing their draft next season and they will look like idiots.

The Browns clinched the 'idiot' spot a long time ago----much to my delight.

Rem

[Tom Servo]

The more I think about it, the more I get it. Use this first round pick along with your other one to bolster the needs of the team, and then find a hidden gem running back later like a lot of teams are doing. They need to make sure they can find the next Alfred Morris or Arian Foster though, or a DeMarco Murray/Steven Ridley, and not just the next Jordan Todman or Chris Rainey.

[Stray]

I like the trade for the Browns for a few reasons.

RBs are very replaceable in today's NFL. Unless you have a Shady McCroy or a Peterson or someone like that, good solid RBs aren't hard to find. With the way the league has changed I don't think you should ever become too attached to a RB or pay one a ton of money, unless you have one of the few special backs.

They need to upgrade a lot of talent, no better way to do that than with a bunch draft picks. Look no farther than the Bengals to see how much of an immediate impact good draft picks can have. They have two 1s, a 2 and two 3s next year. I don't think they should trade up (if they would have to), but they have the picks to do so now. There's also a lot of talented RBs that should be coming out. Yeldon and Gurley I think?

They weren't going to win the SB or even make the playoffs with this team. I know people say it's unfair to the season ticket holders, but I think the job of that front office is to try to get a better product on the field as soon as possible. This trade helped that.

For the Colts I don't like the move that much. Unless Richardson ends up having a very nice career there I don't think he was worth a 1st. In their pass happy offense they could have found a quality back on a practice squad somewhere. Now they're a young team trending in the right direction that's going to have to sit out the first round of a draft.

[RedTeamGo!]

How much money does anyone want to bet the Browns draft Yeldon from Alabama?

[19braves77]

Yards per carry as rookies:

Emmitt Smith: 3.9
Walter Payton: 3.5
LaDanian Tomlinson: 3.6

All became great players once they were paired with an experience QB.

[19braves77]

Also, Trent Richardson should be used like Sproles. Screens, draws, and wheels .

[Puffy]

What this trade means for the Browns is that they are going to suck this year and are going all in for either Bridgewater, Johnny Football or Tajh Boyd.

Franchise QBs - gotta have one.

[Patrick Bateman]

Not sure how many guys would have succeeded with the Browns as they are primarily a poor throwing team, and although a decent line, one that specializes in pass protection, not run protection.

I read a stat somewhere that TRich had to fight for yards more than anyone else in football in his time in Cleveland (ie. an average back might have been flirting with a YPC more in the 2.5+ range). He's great in pass protection, has great hands, and a good runner. Passes the eye test. I think he's going to explode in Indy, but still not sure it ever makes a ton of sense to trade first rounders for running backs, but he may be the perfect piece in Indy.

[Todd Gack]

The Browns clinched the 'idiot' spot a long time ago----much to my delight.

Rem

Hey, Bengals fans are too far behind.

[Todd Gack]

What this trade means for the Browns is that they are going to suck this year and are going all in for either Bridgewater, Johnny Football or Tajh Boyd.

Franchise QBs - gotta have one.

Gotta admit, I don't understand the love for Bridgewater.

[fearofpopvol1]

As a Colts fan I can't say I'm super impressed by this move. Again, unless he's AP I'm not sure a back is going to be the difference in being a good team and a championship team.

This was my initial thought too. However, the more I think about it, the more I am at least okay with it. Richardson is easily the best back Indy has had since James. With a good QB and passing game, he should flourish. The big question is can he stay healthy? If so, then I think at a minimum, it will be a decent trade. Maybe better.

Outside of Luck, the Colts have not been overly successful with 1st round draft picks for a while now. I know it's a new regime so it's not fair to blame Grigson for that, but the larger point is that late 1st round picks certainly aren't sure bets. Richardson is definitely a a good bet if his health holds up.

What is concerning however is that their defense and O-Line probably should've been a higher priority. I'm just not sure how that gets fixed. It's clear the Colts have decided to double down on the offense, but it's hard to do that when the O-line is so bad.

[Caveat Emperor]

What this trade means for the Browns is that they are going to suck this year and are going all in for either Bridgewater, Johnny Football or Tajh Boyd.

Franchise QBs - gotta have one.

Yup.

The NFL keeps changing their rules to make it easier and easier to pass the football -- elite QBs, WRs, and TEs are the currency of the modern "hands off, no hitting" NFL. The days of the road-grinding RBs / 20+ carry backs are over and done with.

The Browns, essentially, got a do-over with an awful pick. Now they can get someone who aids in the passing attack or helps defend the passing attack like they should have in the first place with this pick.

[CoachBombay]

Who are the Browns

[WrongVerb]

The cost of acquiring TRich is moot now.

I think they got fair market value for him. Perhaps more (many people think its foolish to use a first rounder on a RB unless he is AP). For whatever reason, he has not impressed so far. Gonna have to let this play out.

I'd rather pick up a 1st round OL talent and use a later round on a back, even if AP is available. Winning teams build from the line out.

And the Bengals look very solid on the line on both sides of the ball.

[Roy Tucker]

Reminds me of why, no matter how hard I tried, I couldn't get behind Browns v2.0.

They've bumbled and a stumbled and burned off an awful lot of fan goodwill. And are just as far away from contending as when they started the new franchise.

[RiverRat13]

Lombardi has a plan. He was very vocal about not liking Weeden while he was an analyst for NFL Network. But instead of reaching for a QB in a weak class in '13, he started trading '13 picks for '14 picks in order to have the ammo necessary to move up to get one of the three studs (Bridgewater, Hundley and Boyd) in case the Browns weren't high enough to take one on their own. Now they have another 1st rounder as trade ammo if they need it.

[bucksfan2]

Lombardi has a plan. He was very vocal about not liking Weeden while he was an analyst for NFL Network. But instead of reaching for a QB in a weak class in '13, he started trading '13 picks for '14 picks in order to have the ammo necessary to move up to get one of the three studs (Bridgewater, Hundley and Boyd) in case the Browns weren't high enough to take one on their own. Now they have another 1st rounder as trade ammo if they need it.

I don't know how good of a GM Lombardi is going to be. What I know is in Week 3 of the NFL season he has told his fans that this team is going to be awful. He has told potential free agents that we are willing to throw in the towel before week 3 of a NFL season.

To be honest I don't know if it is the right or wrong move for a franchise to make. I have had Bengal season tickets for about 10 years now. I have been in the middle of some pretty poor seasons but always appreciated when they would win a football game. I think the Browns were looking at a 6-10 to 7-9 season. A step forward for a franchise that has been mired in a slump for decades. Unfortunately for the Browns and their fans, their GM has given up the season after week 2. He better be right.

[Caveat Emperor]

Lombardi has a plan. He was very vocal about not liking Weeden while he was an analyst for NFL Network. But instead of reaching for a QB in a weak class in '13, he started trading '13 picks for '14 picks in order to have the ammo necessary to move up to get one of the three studs (Bridgewater, Hundley and Boyd) in case the Browns weren't high enough to take one on their own. Now they have another 1st rounder as trade ammo if they need it.

The other teams they'll be fighting for '14 draft positioning are going to be Jacksonville (a real contender to go 0-16), Oakland, and Tampa Bay are all going to be in the market for a QB.

With the premium placed on a franchise QB, I doubt any of them sell, for any reason, with the chance to take one.

[Sea Ray]

The other teams they'll be fighting for '14 draft positioning are going to be Jacksonville (a real contender to go 0-16), Oakland, and Tampa Bay are all going to be in the market for a QB.

With the premium placed on a franchise QB, I doubt any of them sell, for any reason, with the chance to take one.

That was my thinking as well. This will not be as easy as having the capital (draft picks) to spend. It'll be fun to watch

(My thinking rarely is in line with a lawyer)...:)

[traderumor]

So....seems Richardson learned of the trade on the radio. Clowns, indeed.

[Puffy]

The other teams they'll be fighting for '14 draft positioning are going to be Jacksonville (a real contender to go 0-16), Oakland, and Tampa Bay are all going to be in the market for a QB.



I forgot about Hundley, but from watching a couple of UCLA games they say that NFL scouts love him. So thats 4 potential QBs for scouting guys to fall in love with and overdraft (potentially).

Anyway, even if those 4 teams all suck and jockey for position it seems there will be enough QBs to go around early in draft - - especially since one of them will have to take Clowney, IMO

[paintmered]

I wonder if this will start a new trend of tanking in the NFL, especially since the franchise value of a top draft pick his first few years is limited in the current labor agreement. "Suck for Luck" was a bit tongue and cheek but Indy didn't make any overtly public moves to cement their status and the top pick. To me, the worst part of the trade is the appearance that the Browns are actively trying to scuttle this season in the name of draft position after only two games. I hope these moves don't become a regular occurrence and lead to an NFL lottery future.

[Caveat Emperor]

I wonder if this will start a new trend of tanking in the NFL, especially since the franchise value of a top draft pick his first few years is limited in the current labor agreement. "Suck for Luck" was a bit tongue and cheek but Indy didn't make any overtly public moves to cement their status and the top pick. To me, the worst part of the trade is the appearance that the Browns are actively trying to scuttle this season in the name of draft position after only two games. I hope these moves don't become a regular occurrence and lead to an NFL lottery future.

The NFL has brought it upon themselves, to a certain extent.

The rule changes over the last decade have, in almost every respect, had the effect of inflating the value of the quarterback position.

There used to be a number of different pathways to power in the NFL -- but the era of the tough defense / rushing attack offense with a game-manager at QB (think the '85 Bears, '00 Ravens, the '02 Buccaneers, etc.) has ended. Now, the only way to win consistently is with a playmaking / franchise QB under center.

If you don't have one, why wouldn't you tank a season to get on? Every season you play without one is, basically, a waste.

[RedTeamGo!]

The NFL has brought it upon themselves, to a certain extent.

The rule changes over the last decade have, in almost every respect, had the effect of inflating the value of the quarterback position.

There used to be a number of different pathways to power in the NFL -- but the era of the tough defense / rushing attack offense with a game-manager at QB (think the '85 Bears, '00 Ravens, the '02 Buccaneers, etc.) has ended. Now, the only way to win consistently is with a playmaking / franchise QB under center.

If you don't have one, why wouldn't you tank a season to get on? Every season you play without one is, basically, a waste.

2012 SB Champ QB: Joe Flacco - 18th pick overall
2011 SB Champ QB: Aaron Rodgers - 24th pick overall
2010 SB Champ QB: Eli Manning - 1st pick overall
2009 SB Champ QB: Drew Brees 32nd pick overall

I do agree that a franchise QB is very important, but as you can see you do not have to tank a season and draft in the first 5 picks to have a franchise QB.

[Todd Gack]

I just looked up Richardson's stats. Not sure what the hype is all about. Looks like an even better trade for Cle than folks want to admit.

[GAC]

What this trade means for the Browns is that they are going to suck this year and are going all in for either Bridgewater, Johnny Football or Tajh Boyd.

Franchise QBs - gotta have one.

Give this guy a see-gar! :thumbup:

And the rumor is that is actually what the new owner is driving for.

Ya gotta have a QB, and the Browns, over the last 14 years have failed miserably.

I've been a life-long Brown fan since around 1965 (remember when Kelly took over for Brown). And what is funny, when it comes to us Brown fans, is that if you ask them who was the last really good QB for the Browns, they go back to Kosar (80s). Now that was a long time ago. Kosar was good.... but he wasn't that good. He was surrounded by a lot of talent.

The Browns reconfigured the defense in the off-season and, IMO, will be rock solid. Of course this year may not show that simply because they'll be worn out being on the field so much from all the three-and-outs the offense is gonna put up.

Most Brown fans have been screaming at this management for years to start prioritizing the offensive side.

And while it stinks, since we've only two games deep into this season, I think that is what they are now attempting to do, going into next season, with the offense.

Richardson and Weeden were Holgrem's boys. A new owner comes in, cleans house on the coaching staff, and it's only natural they want to acquire (build) with players that fit their scheme. I like Chudzinski and Turner (offensive coordinator). And Richardson didn't fit into the type of RB scheme that Chud wants. And Weeden will be gone too.

Interesting article that projects what the Brown's two 1st round picks will be at..... http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/23731602/trent-richardson-trade-fallout-browns-projected-to-have-2nd-6th-picks

So we'll see.

The initial shock has worn off, and I'm back to my normal Brown fan numb state. LOL

[JaxRed]

This is good move for Browns. Too easy to come up with decent running backs. Should never have spent a #1 on Richardson. Now they can spend it on a premium position.

[nmculbreth]

This is good move for Browns. Too easy to come up with decent running backs. Should never have spent a #1 on Richardson. Now they can spend it on a premium position.

I sort of agree. On the surface it's pretty crazy to jettison the 3rd overall pick from after a little over a year but with the benefit of hindsight it seems to me that drafting Richardson that high (and trading up to do so) was far more egregious than moving him for a mid first rounder.

You sort of wonder if Richardson is going to be the last RB that you see drafted that high in quite some time... with the way that the league is moving I'm not sure anyone is going to be willing to spend a premium pick on a RB.

[Sea Ray]

Today certainly didn't do much for this "plan". Both the Colts and the Browns hurt their draft status by winning big games today. Time will tell whether this was a good deal for the Browns or not but it does make the past few years "a bad deal".

[GAC]

Today certainly didn't do much for this "plan". Both the Colts and the Browns hurt their draft status by winning big games today.

The main objective, especially after only 3 weeks of football, is to win games, not hurt your draft status. And if anything the Browns showed people Sunday their objective is not to tank this season.

How can anyone accuse the Browns, who have averaged 5 wins/season for the last 14 years, of purposely trying to tank the season? IMO, they don't have to try! :p

I'm a die-hard Browns fan, but I'm also a realist too (most Brown fans are).... this team (and organization) has been one HUGE comedy of errors for the last 14 years. We've only posted two winning seasons in that span (9-7, 10-6).

They continually have made so many changes that it appears they are always "starting from scratch". We're on our 6th head coach, and last count we've tried 11 different QBs.

And while a lot of teams can list first round picks that haven't panned out, and even been disasters, the Browns have had the worst of luck in this category with the likes of Courtney Brown, Gerard Warren, Willie Green, Winslow, Edwards, and Quinn (I'll stop there). They have done better in the last few years with Joe Thomas, Alex Mack, Joe Haden, and Phil Taylor (verdict is still out on rookie OLBer Mingo).

This organization's problem has been in properly, and successfully, scouting/evaluating, and drafting talent in key positions on the offense. They've done one heck of a job in building a top-rate defense. But they haven't been able to do it on the other side, and especially at very key positions (QB, RB, and WR).

I like the new owner. I like the coaching staff he has assembled. I understand what they are attempting to do from the offensive side too. I think they finally get it. Norv Turner, as far as offensive coordinator goes, is an excellent one. He and Chudzinski are on the same page as far as what they want to achieve, and the type of personnel needed. Richardson, and Weeden, don't fit that scheme.

They need a franchise QB and they know it. I'm willing to see what happens.

As Brown fans what do we have to lose?? LOL

[bucksfan2]

The main objective, especially after only 3 weeks of football, is to win games, not hurt your draft status. And if anything the Browns showed people Sunday their objective is not to tank this season.

How can anyone accuse the Browns, who have averaged 5 wins/season for the last 14 years, of purposely trying to tank the season? IMO, they don't have to try! :p

I'm a die-hard Browns fan, but I'm also a realist too (most Brown fans are).... this team (and organization) has been one HUGE comedy of errors for the last 14 years. We've only posted two winning seasons in that span (9-7, 10-6).

They continually have made so many changes that it appears they are always "starting from scratch". We're on our 6th head coach, and last count we've tried 11 different QBs.

And while a lot of teams can list first round picks that haven't panned out, and even been disasters, the Browns have had the worst of luck in this category with the likes of Courtney Brown, Gerard Warren, Willie Green, Winslow, Edwards, and Quinn (I'll stop there). They have done better in the last few years with Joe Thomas, Alex Mack, Joe Haden, and Phil Taylor (verdict is still out on rookie OLBer Mingo).

This organization's problem has been in properly, and successfully, scouting/evaluating, and drafting talent in key positions on the offense. They've done one heck of a job in building a top-rate defense. But they haven't been able to do it on the other side, and especially at very key positions (QB, RB, and WR).

I like the new owner. I like the coaching staff he has assembled. I understand what they are attempting to do from the offensive side too. I think they finally get it. Norv Turner, as far as offensive coordinator goes, is an excellent one. He and Chudzinski are on the same page as far as what they want to achieve, and the type of personnel needed. Richardson, and Weeden, don't fit that scheme.

They need a franchise QB and they know it. I'm willing to see what happens.

As Brown fans what do we have to lose?? LOL

Yesterday I saw a tweet that the Browns were shopping Gordon and Little. If they aren't trying to tank the season then I don't know what they are trying to do. You can agree or not the merits of the trade, but when you are trying to trade your best WR after you traded your best skill player you aren't trying to win football games. If I were a fan that would be the most disheartening part, not the trading of players, but the giving up on a season. I have been there many times before as a Bengals fan, but still enjoyed sitting down and watching 3 hours of football on Sunday.

The Browns for years haven't had skill players on offense. And I will contend that the pick of Mack wasn't a good pick in itself. You can't trade down and trade down again when you need skill players and take a C with your first pick. They have had 2 first rounders before and ended up with Thomas and Quinn and then Richardson and Weedon.

I don't know much about the new ownership. I do know that he likes football better than their prior owner but also he is the subject of a FBI investigation. I don't have a clue if Chud and Turner will be a good combo. I do know that the front office's method right now isn't a fan friendly method. It doesn't make sense to go in and say your QB of one season isn't a good fit. They are going about it in a manner that most front offices don't. In the NFL you don't see fire sales, you don't see tanking seasons, you don't see moves like the Browns made. It may work it may not. All I know is right now what they did would irritate me as a fan.

[CoachBombay]

This is good move for Browns. Too easy to come up with decent running backs. Should never have spent a #1 on Richardson. Now they can spend it on a premium position.

Possibly. But at the same time it wasnt just a #1 pick. They traded 3 or 4 picks to move up and get Richardson

[Sea Ray]

I'm a die-hard Browns fan, but I'm also a realist too (most Brown fans are).... this team (and organization) has been one HUGE comedy of errors for the last 14 years. We've only posted two winning seasons in that span (9-7, 10-6).

They continually have made so many changes that it appears they are always "starting from scratch". We're on our 6th head coach, and last count we've tried 11 different QBs.

And while a lot of teams can list first round picks that haven't panned out, and even been disasters, the Browns have had the worst of luck in this category with the likes of Courtney Brown, Gerard Warren, Willie Green, Winslow, Edwards, and Quinn (I'll stop there). They have done better in the last few years with Joe Thomas, Alex Mack, Joe Haden, and Phil Taylor (verdict is still out on rookie OLBer Mingo).

This organization's problem has been in properly, and successfully, scouting/evaluating, and drafting talent in key positions on the offense. They've done one heck of a job in building a top-rate defense. But they haven't been able to do it on the other side, and especially at very key positions (QB, RB, and WR).

I like the new owner. I like the coaching staff he has assembled. I understand what they are attempting to do from the offensive side too. I think they finally get it. Norv Turner, as far as offensive coordinator goes, is an excellent one. He and Chudzinski are on the same page as far as what they want to achieve, and the type of personnel needed. Richardson, and Weeden, don't fit that scheme.

They need a franchise QB and they know it. I'm willing to see what happens.

As Brown fans what do we have to lose?? LOL

What did you think of the Richardson draft pick when it was made? Apparently now you don't want it. If you supported it at the time, when did you sour on it?

You make it clear that you're staking your hope on the Browns making stellar draft picks yet you admit that those picks haven't panned out too well in the past. I know you've got a new regime in there but they'd better be good in the WAR room.

Every team would like to have a franchise QB and that's worth "going for". In fact the Bengals don't have one on their roster. It's too early to tell but I'm guessing that the Browns will not be a position to draft one in May and the teams in front of them will be more needy for one than Cleveland is.

[Sea Ray]

Yesterday I saw a tweet that the Browns were shopping Gordon and Little. If they aren't trying to tank the season then I don't know what they are trying to do. You can agree or not the merits of the trade, but when you are trying to trade your best WR after you traded your best skill player you aren't trying to win football games. If I were a fan that would be the most disheartening part, not the trading of players, but the giving up on a season. I have been there many times before as a Bengals fan, but still enjoyed sitting down and watching 3 hours of football on Sunday.

The Browns for years haven't had skill players on offense. And I will contend that the pick of Mack wasn't a good pick in itself. You can't trade down and trade down again when you need skill players and take a C with your first pick. They have had 2 first rounders before and ended up with Thomas and Quinn and then Richardson and Weedon.

I don't know much about the new ownership. I do know that he likes football better than their prior owner but also he is the subject of a FBI investigation. I don't have a clue if Chud and Turner will be a good combo. I do know that the front office's method right now isn't a fan friendly method. It doesn't make sense to go in and say your QB of one season isn't a good fit. They are going about it in a manner that most front offices don't. In the NFL you don't see fire sales, you don't see tanking seasons, you don't see moves like the Browns made. It may work it may not. All I know is right now what they did would irritate me as a fan.

It's also been reported that they've turned down offers for Joe Thomas including one from Denver

[IslandRed]

The main objective, especially after only 3 weeks of football, is to win games, not hurt your draft status. And if anything the Browns showed people Sunday their objective is not to tank this season.

I think history has shown that whatever a front office's strategy might be -- and Cleveland's clearly involves positioning itself to get a quarterback in 2014 -- the people on the field don't quit trying. After all, they have their own agenda that involves continuing to cash NFL paychecks after this season.

[Caveat Emperor]

Possibly. But at the same time it wasnt just a #1 pick. They traded 3 or 4 picks to move up and get Richardson

Which was also dumb.

But, they wisely avoided doubling down on dumb by unloading him for a 1st round pick.

[kaldaniels]

I was onboard with the TRich pick. Everyone raved about him.

As much as we hear that RB's shouldn't be drafted high, if one turns out like Petersen or Lynch, I'm ok with it. And he was hyped as being that special.

But...my opinion of the draft pick has changed.

I just don't think he is that special after watching 15+ games with him.

[Yachtzee]

I still think the front office sent the wrong message. I get the impression that what the Browns' players are saying and doing are more of an audition for their next team. I wouldn't be surprised if the Browns pull off a few shock wins this season. I also wouldn't be surprised if some of their better players refuse to resign or try to force a trade in the off-season.

[GAC]

Yesterday I saw a tweet that the Browns were shopping Gordon and Little. If they aren't trying to tank the season then I don't know what they are trying to do. You can agree or not the merits of the trade, but when you are trying to trade your best WR after you traded your best skill player you aren't trying to win football games. If I were a fan that would be the most disheartening part, not the trading of players, but the giving up on a season. I have been there many times before as a Bengals fan, but still enjoyed sitting down and watching 3 hours of football on Sunday.

The Browns for years haven't had skill players on offense. And I will contend that the pick of Mack wasn't a good pick in itself. You can't trade down and trade down again when you need skill players and take a C with your first pick. They have had 2 first rounders before and ended up with Thomas and Quinn and then Richardson and Weedon.

I don't know much about the new ownership. I do know that he likes football better than their prior owner but also he is the subject of a FBI investigation. I don't have a clue if Chud and Turner will be a good combo. I do know that the front office's method right now isn't a fan friendly method. It doesn't make sense to go in and say your QB of one season isn't a good fit. They are going about it in a manner that most front offices don't. In the NFL you don't see fire sales, you don't see tanking seasons, you don't see moves like the Browns made. It may work it may not. All I know is right now what they did would irritate me as a fan.

There is some truth to what you're saying buck. I read the articles on them shopping Gordon and Little. And they had some offers that they have also rejected. The GM responded they aren't going to give them away either. They are looking for specific talent and they know what these guys are worth.

I hope they don't get rid of Gordon. As for Little? I won't miss him. Inconsistent. He reminds me of Braylon Edwards. He'll make a spectacular catch that will make the highlight film, but then drop 3-4 routine passes in a game.

And the reason they drafted Mack was because they direly needed a center to shore up, at that time, a huge weakness (offensive line). I had no problem with it, because I'm one who believes your offensive line is the "heart" of your team. And draft picks like Mack and Thomas have greatly improved it. But again, the problem has been getting those key offensive talent that stands behind that line .... QB, RB, and especially a down field threat in WR.

It makes perfect sense for the new management, and especially coaching staff, to say the QB of only one season is not a good fit if that ownership and coaching staff wasn't there, didn't draft him, and sees he doesn't fit the offensive scheme they are trying to build.

I agree, seeing what just went down with Richardson, how it would irritate Brown fans, and especially season ticket holders. I was initially pee-d off. WTF??? But I've had time to sit back and look at it more in-depth and I understand (and agree) with what they are trying to do.... IF they can do it.

They've also let it be known they are going for a "franchise" QB, and will also be aggressively pursuing Texans’ RB Ben Tate in the off-season.


Going into this season, most Brown fans were optimistic seeing the "improvement" on this team, even though we once again finished at 5-11. There were some who held out hope we might be able to get a WC this year; but most projections I saw had us realistically going 7-9 or 8-8. And while that is an improvement, it ain't much to get excited about.

And you would know and agree with that as a Bengal fan. I also follow (root) for the Bengals. Have done so since they entered the NFL in the 60s. Loved that game this last Sunday as I watched both the Browns and Bengals. But they hit rock bottom before Marvin Lewis was brought in. Now my brother, who is a die-hard Bengal fan, hates Lewis. Lewis definitely turned the organization around, brought some respectability, but, according to my brother, he will never take them to that "next level".

The Browns started out this year 0-2. And the offense, as it has been the trend, has looked terrible. Especially in the redzone. And, IMO, even if they hadn't traded Trent, I saw them, once again, winning no more then 5 or 6 games because of this offense

It has to stop. Especially when you have built a sound squad on the other side of the ball (defense).

Again - we haven't got anything to lose. But I don't think they are having a fire sale or purposely trying to tank the season. When you only win 4-5 games a season there's nothing to tank! LOL

It's about long term consistency. If they can accomplish it, then Brown fans, who have already endured frustration for the last 14 years, will forgive/forget it.

And while the Vikings have their problems too... I have to admit, what I saw from the the Brown's offense with Hoyer, getting Gordon back, and TE Cameron, did impress me.

They weren't coached, nor played, like a team that was tanking anything.

[jojo]

I don't really see it as a bad deal, I don't think Richardson is an all world back waiting to happen.

Saban's backs aren't NFL powerhouses.

[GAC]

What did you think of the Richardson draft pick when it was made?

It really doesn't matter what myself, or any Brown fan, thought of the draft AT THAT TIME, as far as any relevancy to the current situation.

Everyone knows that 1st round picks, even though players had stellar college careers, that it doesn't always translate into success at the NFL level. The list of names is endless. There is always a risk involved. But that is the chance every NFL takes, and basically have to.


Apparently now you don't want it. If you supported it at the time, when did you sour on it?

I never "soured" on the drafting of Richardson. All I've said was that I understand the direction the new ownership, and coaching staff, are trying to take this offense, and that players like Richardson and Weeden, aren't the style of players that they feel will help them achieve that. They didn't draft these guys, and so they have every right, since the ownership hired (entrusted) them, to then build THEIR team in accordance to the scheme they think will bring a greater chance of success.

I like Richardson. I had no problem when they drafted him either. He was a stellar RB at Alabama and we needed a RB. My only concern THEN was that he did have an injury history. And he played hurt his rookie year too, and even had two broken ribs. And in the first two games his numbers weren't that impressive either. Now that wasn't all his fault, but again, I just don't think he is the type/style of RB that Chud/Turner want to build the future on.

And look at his numbers so far in his brief career. They aren't the numbers of a "elite" RB for sure. If the Browns thought TR was going to live up to their original intentions they wouldn't have traded him. He has a 3.5 yds/carry and only three 100 yard games. So maybe the NEW management felt his trade value would only continue to decrease over time, and trading him now would be their best opportunity to maximize his trade value? Possible? Only time will tell.


You make it clear that you're staking your hope on the Browns making stellar draft picks yet you admit that those picks haven't panned out too well in the past. I know you've got a new regime in there but they'd better be good in the WAR room.

One can say that about a majority of NFL teams. A lot of times it's a coin flip with 1st round picks because, again, stellar college talent does not translate into success in the NFL. Look at the current number of highly touted 1st round picks that have failed or are struggling to the point the pundits, and fans, are starting to ask questions.

Check this article out on NFL 1st round draft history since 1995..... http://www.cstv.com/genrel/040805aaa.html

And here's another one. Go back to 1999 (when the Browns came back), and go up through 2008, year-by-year, and look at all the busts ..... http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?season=1999&round=round1#round1


So yeah, the Browns management is going to have to do their "homework" like any teams does by the way. But the Browns’ current brain trust shouldn’t be handcuffed by the decisions of their predecessors (who are gone for good reason), and maybe, just maybe (time will tell) should receive credit for being bold enough to make such a drastic move just 1 1/2 years after drafting/anointing Richardson as a key piece to their franchise’s future. But that wasn't the current owner/management.


It's too early to tell but I'm guessing that the Browns will not be a position to draft one in May and the teams in front of them will be more needy for one than Cleveland is.

The 2014 QB class has a lot more to offer then last year's. And while Manziel is getting all the hype, I don't know if he is the best, or even a 1st round pick. We'll see. He has his flaws as far as an NFL-style QB and chances of "elite-hood".

Teddy Bridgewater/Louisville (only a Jr though)
Marcus Mariota/Oregon
Tajh Boyd/Clemson
Aaron Murray/Georgia
David Fales/San Jose State
AJ McCarron/Alabama

And there are others in the class.

And yes, the Browns will be in position to draft one. Who? I have no idea. Will any of these players succeed in the NFL? Your guess is as good as mine. LOL

[Sea Ray]

So yeah, the Browns management is going to have to do their "homework" like any teams does by the way. But the Browns’ current brain trust shouldn’t be handcuffed by the decisions of their predecessors (who are gone for good reason), and maybe, just maybe (time will tell) should receive credit for being bold enough to make such a drastic move just 1 1/2 years after drafting/anointing Richardson as a key piece to their franchise’s future. But that wasn't the current owner/management.



The 2014 QB class has a lot more to offer then last year's. And while Manziel is getting all the hype, I don't know if he is the best, or even a 1st round pick. We'll see. He has his flaws as far as an NFL-style QB and chances of "elite-hood".

Teddy Bridgewater/Louisville (only a Jr though)
Marcus Mariota/Oregon
Tajh Boyd/Clemson
Aaron Murray/Georgia
David Fales/San Jose State
AJ McCarron/Alabama

And there are others in the class.

And yes, the Browns will be in position to draft one. Who? I have no idea. Will any of these players succeed in the NFL? Your guess is as good as mine. LOL

The Browns are doing another re-set indeed. Time will tell whether it works out this time. As a general rule, you don't build a team by trading 1st rd draft picks for future 1st rd picks especially when it's a high 1st that you traded picks to get in the first place.

No question, this year's draft is much stronger in QBs than last year and the Browns should make that a priority. Of course they made that a priority when they drafted Tim Couch too so it takes more than that.

[GAC]

As a general rule, you don't build a team by trading 1st rd draft picks for future 1st rd picks especially when it's a high 1st that you traded picks to get in the first place.

Again - it wasn't the current ownership, management team, and coaching staff that did that, made those decisions.

So if the current ownership and coaching staff feel their predecessors made a mistake or were wrong-headed, that those move(s) are in opposition to their plans/goals, then they have the obligation to try and correct them. Even if it may be painful as far as this year goes.

And it's funny, but most pundits and sports analysts that I have read over the last several days, while acknowledging the risk and boldness of this trade, aren't so hard on the Browns and question whether it will, in the long-run be a sound move by Indy. Was Richardson worth their 1st round pick? We'll see.


Of course they made that a priority when they drafted Tim Couch too so it takes more than that.

That was 14 yrs ago dude. How many 1st round picks did they use on a QB since, up to Weeden (who I wasn't high on)?

You want a list of all the failed, highly touted 1st round QBs that everyone bragged on, and have failed? LOL

And yes, it takes more. And the Brown's hierarchy has just said so. There are other players/positions on offense they said will have top priority in the next draft. But ya gotta start with a good QB or all else means nothing.

[bucksfan2]

@GAC

My problem with the Mack pick is when you have massive needs across the entire, trading down and drafting a C with your first pick isn't getting the best value. C may be the most important position on the line but it isn't the most valuable. You can find centers late in the draft and even groom rookie FA centers.

The current Browns regime can't change the past. They can't change that the previous FO thought it was worth it to trade up for Richardson and draft Weeden. In the NFL you can't change everything in a year. I can understand the trade but I still don't think it was a smart move. The Browns have made it evident that they NEED a QB in next year's draft. The problem when you go out there with a NEED, is if your guy is gone you often times reach. You end up with a Blane Gabbart or Christian Ponder. The jury is still out on Locker but I think he was a reach as well. If you look at most of the later on QB picks, they were picked because a team liked them but they didn't have a NEED for them right away.

You win in the NFL with talent. The Browns may have beat the Vikings, but they aren't as talented of a team as they were in week 2. They "tanked" the season because their FO decided it was time to trade one of their most dangerous weapons after week 2 and made it evident that they were going to draft a QB. The ironic thing is the defense is pretty stout and if they would have made a move in trading a 2nd for Alex Smith they may have been a 9-7 football team or potentially better if there D stays stout.

[Sea Ray]

Again - it wasn't the current ownership, management team, and coaching staff that did that, made those decisions.

So if the current ownership and coaching staff feel their predecessors made a mistake or were wrong-headed, that those move(s) are in opposition to their plans/goals, then they have the obligation to try and correct them. Even if it may be painful as far as this year goes.

And it's funny, but most pundits and sports analysts that I have read over the last several days, while acknowledging the risk and boldness of this trade, aren't so hard on the Browns and question whether it will, in the long-run be a sound move by Indy. Was Richardson worth their 1st round pick? We'll see.



That was 14 yrs ago dude. How many 1st round picks did they use on a QB since, up to Weeden (who I wasn't high on)?

You want a list of all the failed, highly touted 1st round QBs that everyone bragged on, and have failed? LOL

And yes, it takes more. And the Brown's hierarchy has just said so. There are other players/positions on offense they said will have top priority in the next draft. But ya gotta start with a good QB or all else means nothing.

Yes "dude", I'm well aware of the obvious such as how long ago 1999 was and the fact that the Holmgren regime is over. That doesn't change the facts of what I wrote. We'll see how it all works out and it'll be fun to track, starting with Mother's Day weekend this coming May

[Sea Ray]

The more I think about it GAC, I think the best move the Browns can make now is to trade Joe Haden to the Bengals for an undisclosed draft pick in the 2023 draft...

[GAC]

@GAC

My problem with the Mack pick is when you have massive needs across the entire, trading down and drafting a C with your first pick isn't getting the best value. C may be the most important position on the line but it isn't the most valuable. You can find centers late in the draft and even groom rookie FA centers.

The current Browns regime can't change the past. They can't change that the previous FO thought it was worth it to trade up for Richardson and draft Weeden. In the NFL you can't change everything in a year. I can understand the trade but I still don't think it was a smart move. The Browns have made it evident that they NEED a QB in next year's draft. The problem when you go out there with a NEED, is if your guy is gone you often times reach. You end up with a Blane Gabbart or Christian Ponder. The jury is still out on Locker but I think he was a reach as well. If you look at most of the later on QB picks, they were picked because a team liked them but they didn't have a NEED for them right away.

You win in the NFL with talent. The Browns may have beat the Vikings, but they aren't as talented of a team as they were in week 2. They "tanked" the season because their FO decided it was time to trade one of their most dangerous weapons after week 2 and made it evident that they were going to draft a QB. The ironic thing is the defense is pretty stout and if they would have made a move in trading a 2nd for Alex Smith they may have been a 9-7 football team or potentially better if there D stays stout.

Again buck, a lot of what you state is true. And as you say - "you can't change the past" - so there is really no reason to re-hash it as far as the Browns goes. They came back into the league as an "expansion" team, and it's going to be rough goings for those new teams the first few years as they try to build something.

But then it turned into, as I stated earlier, a comedy of errors, and mainly, IMO, from bad ownership decisions. And I refer to Randy Lerner, who took over when his Dad (Al) passed away. He tried and made a sincere effort, but being an NFL owner was not his passion, and he had minimal knowledge or interest. He was a square peg in a round hole. He was low-key who relied on delegating those responsibilities to others, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but he simply could never figure this NFL ownership thingy out and was in over his head to the point of frustration. In most people's minds, especially Brown fans, they celebrated when he sold them.

As far as the present? ..... there's no denying the current owner, management (Lombardi, Banner), and coaching staff, were on the hot seat when they took over to turn things around. And that seat is now even hotter with the trade.

But after watching this offense (especially Weeden) in that 0-2 start, this team would be lucky to win 4 games IMO. So I really have no problem with what they did. And it's not the only change.

But as far as evaluation goes, we will only now for sure if this was a good/bad move by the results of next years draft... and also how successful TR is at Indy. And it's not only about the two picks in the first round either. They have 10 picks overall.

[Todd Gack]

Saban's backs aren't NFL powerhouses.

Neither are Auburn's.

[GAC]

Brown's tanking?

[jojo]

Neither are Auburn's.

Cleveland just traded TR because they're dreaming of Ben Tate. Yep, Ben Tate.

[bucksfan2]

Brown's tanking?

I thought about this yesterday. I think it supports my point that the Browns have a very good defense and a team that can compete, especially at home, with most NFL teams. The problem is Hoyer will be exposed eventually and they probably will end up a 6-10 football team.

[GAC]

I thought about this yesterday. I think it supports my point that the Browns have a very good defense and a team that can compete, especially at home, with most NFL teams. The problem is Hoyer will be exposed eventually and they probably will end up a 6-10 football team.

Won't argue with that assessment one bit buck. Everyone is on the Hoyer bandwagon right now. I heard Boomer Esiason say Sunday the Browns have found their QB. And while I like what I have seen from Hoyer, I had to laugh at that comment. He really hasn't been tested yet.

The Brown's D will keep them in games. It did last year. But you still have to put points on the board. There were several games last year, close games, where we had the lead in the 4th quarter (though slim) and found ways to let it slip away. I thought it would happen this past Sunday.

Our next five games, before the bye week, are the Bills, Lions, Packers, Chiefs, and Ravens. Of those games, the only ones I see them having a chance of possibly winning (and they are home games) are vs the Bills and Ravens. 2-3 at best, but I say 1-4 is more likely. So that would put us at 3-6.

Of the remaining 7 games, which includes games vs the Bears and Patriots, I see the possibility of 3 more wins... split with the Steelers (who are awful), Jags, and maybe Jets. We won't win our re-match in Cincy IMO.

So that would put us, like you say, at 6-10. 7-9 is a long shot IMO. But 5-11 is attainable. LOL

[Boston Red]

3-0 since the trade now. Even Weeden got in on the action tonight.

[Tom Servo]

Really hoping Hoyer's injury isn't too serious.

[jimbo]

Trent who?

[Boston Red]

Really hoping Hoyer's injury isn't too serious.

It is.

Tebow time! The perfect call for a franchise that needs a miracle.

[Boston Red]

Damn, quadruple post about 90 minutes after I hit send. Impressive.

[Boston Red]

nm

[Boston Red]

nm

[KoryMac5]

MRI today initial fear is torn ACL according to reports.

[KoryMac5]

Worst fears realized, torn ACl done for the season. I feel bad for the guy.

[Chip R]

It's official: God hates Cleveland.

[bucksfan2]

It's official: God hates Cleveland.

Call me crazy but I don't necessarily think this is a bad thing for the Browns. The last thing the Browns wanted was Hoyer to play over his head this season and the Browns brass to think he was deserving of a contract (remember Derick Anderson?) This will give the current regime a chance to really see what Weeden can do and not give false hope that a journeyman backup is the next star.

[Boston Red]

This will give the current regime a chance to really see what Weeden can do

Don't we already know what Weedon can do (not much good)? And Hoyer would have had 14 games to show his stuff. Not exactly a small sample size if you were worried about people getting too excited about him. If he could have managed to perform well for 14 games, it would have been hard to say he wasn't deserving of the starting QB role.

[Falcon7]

Worst fears realized, torn ACl done for the season. I feel bad for the guy.

Of course, there was little doubt... The curse of Art Modell. :(

But the Weed Man did play pretty good, likely a fluke...

[GAC]

Call me crazy but I don't necessarily think this is a bad thing for the Browns. The last thing the Browns wanted was Hoyer to play over his head this season and the Browns brass to think he was deserving of a contract (remember Derick Anderson?)

I agree. It's bad for Hoyer obviously, but maybe not overall for the Brown's as far as future decision-making when it comes to the draft.

And don't ever mention the name Browns and that "other QB's name" ever again in the same sentence. :lol:

That was one terrible contract (decision), and I said so when they made it.


This will give the current regime a chance to really see what Weeden can do and not give false hope that a journeyman backup is the next star.

Maybe losing his job will be a wake-up call for Weeden (I don't know). He didn't have Josh Gordon the first two games of the season, and that has made a difference.

Weeden, as well as the rest of this team, is definitely going to get tested over the next few weeks facing Detroit, Green Bay, and Kansas City.

Personally, I think they've already made the decision that Weeden ain't the guy. Even if he performs well, their overall win-lose record is what they are going to look at.

And I still say 6-10. ;)

[Donder]

Browns and Colts both 3-0 since the trade. Good game by Richardson today.

[GAC]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/colts-reportedly-bench-trent-richardson-continues-flop-since-141937755--nfl.html


Does anybody remember when the Cleveland Browns’ front office appeared incompetent for trading running back Trent Richardson to the Indianapolis Colts?

For those who need a refresher, the Browns dealt Richardson on Sept. 18 in exchange for a first-round pick. Many NFL observers believed Cleveland had given up on its season. Some thought Cleveland dealt away its best player to solidify a high draft pick in 2014. Meanwhile, Indianapolis supposedly acquired the final player needed to catapult its team to the Super Bowl.

Cleveland, we apologize.

Richardson has been an absolute bust since he arrived in Indianapolis, and as a result of his futility, he no longer will start for the Colts.

[Sea Ray]

It looks like the Browns managed to mitigate a blown draft pick from a couple years ago. Kudos to them

[WrongVerb]

I wonder what Richardson would do behind a decent line. The Browns line isn't anything to write home about, and by many accounts, the Colts line is atrocious.

[Hillsdale87]

I wonder what Richardson would do behind a decent line. The Browns line isn't anything to write home about, and by many accounts, the Colts line is atrocious.

Donald Brown isn't having too much trouble running behind that line. Richardson hits the hole very slowly and doesn't look decisive. I wonder if it would help him to lose a little weight to get a little bit more quickness. He would still be insanely strong, but 220 instead of 230 might make a big speed difference

[redsfanmia]

Donald Brown isn't having too much trouble running behind that line. Richardson hits the hole very slowly and doesn't look decisive. I wonder if it would help him to lose a little weight to get a little bit more quickness. He would still be insanely strong, but 220 instead of 230 might make a big speed difference

Donald Brown runs in different formations and when he started he had 8 carries for 8 yards until the 4th quarter. Not going to apologize for Trent but I doubt any back can be successful with the Colts interior line.

[bucksfan2]

My point when the trade went down was that regardless of outcome it wasn't a good move by the organization. They were trading their former top 5 pick one year later. They were trading a guy a much needed quality skill player. RB's can be tricky, a guy like Moreno can go from looking like a bust but then all of a sudden turns into a feature back. It ended up being a good deal from the Browns now, I do think you have to give Richardson a break, its tough to go from one team to another in the middle of the seasons. Different offenses, schemes, and personal take time to adjust to.

It appears as if the Browns are back in their familiar place. A team with a serious need of QB who plays well just well enough to be outside of the top 5 or so. With Mariotta returning for his Jr, year it looks like the Browns will be drafting in the meh range at QB. The Gabbert, Tannehill, Ponder, and Locker range.

[kaldaniels]

My point when the trade went down was that regardless of outcome it wasn't a good move by the organization. They were trading their former top 5 pick one year later. They were trading a guy a much needed quality skill player.

If what we are seeing, that TRich is less than good, is legit...how can you argue it was not a good move? The regime that traded him was not the regime that drafted him...he was just a sunk cost at the point they took over. I think you could argue they were ahead of the curve on this one. Now, the new regime has not been impressive so far...but this move was a winner.

Just to be clear, are you saying he is a quality skill player?

[GAC]

The Browns Fired Chudzinski!!!! ..... http://sports.yahoo.com/news/browns-fire-coach-rob-chudzinski-024245858--nfl.html

My God! What an asinine move IMO. This was the guy's first year. They had an entirely new coaching staff trying to implement their system. This FO traded away their RB, they don't have a QB, and the only one who was proving himself got injured (out for the year). They knew, going into this season, mainly from the offensive side, they had some huge question marks and holes to fill. And less than a year ago Banner was touting Chudzinski as one of the bright young coaches in the NFL and claimed they had their eye on him for quite some time. Now they are saying they made a mistake?

If they did make a mistake in hiring him, then, IMO, that says far more about their lack in decision-making and evaluation skills. Geez!

[Boss-Hog]

The Browns Fired Chudzinski!!!! ..... http://sports.yahoo.com/news/browns-fire-coach-rob-chudzinski-024245858--nfl.html

My God! What an asinine move IMO. This was the guy's first year. They had an entirely new coaching staff trying to implement their system. This FO traded away their RB, they don't have a QB, and the only one who was proving himself got injured (out for the year). They knew, going into this season, mainly from the offensive side, they had some huge question marks and holes to fill. And less than a year ago Banner was touting Chudzinski as one of the bright young coaches in the NFL and claimed they had their eye on him for quite some time. Now they are saying they made a mistake?

If they did make a mistake in hiring him, then, IMO, that says far more about their lack in decision-making and evaluation skills. Geez!

This move (and other NFL coaching firings) is being discussed in this (http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104169) thread.

[jimbo]

My God! What an asinine move IMO. This was the guy's first year. They had an entirely new coaching staff trying to implement their system.

I can't fathom how any potential or established head coach would ever want to hire into such a Mickey Mouse operation. Not even the best of the best of head coaches could walk into the Browns at their current state and turn it around in one season, or two for that matter. It is way too broken, from top to bottom.

I know Browns fans are as diehard as they come, but there has to be a breaking point. For me, it's here. I can't support this organization any longer.

Spring training can't get here fast enough.

P.S. Sorry, I just read Boss's post after posting mine. I will refrain discussing this in this thread from here on out.

[traderumor]

I recall reading a lot of Bengals posters crying for drafting Richardson as high as necessary. Using the Moneyball analogy, a high draft pick on a back seems to be a waste of resources because backs seem to be plug and play in the league. Is there a team in the league that has a "star" back in the playoffs this year?

[Caveat Emperor]

I recall reading a lot of Bengals posters crying for drafting Richardson as high as necessary. Using the Moneyball analogy, a high draft pick on a back seems to be a waste of resources because backs seem to be plug and play in the league. Is there a team in the league that has a "star" back in the playoffs this year?

Depends on your definition of "Star" -- I'd say Marshawn Lynch in SEA definitely qualifies.

[Sea Ray]

Depends on your definition of "Star" -- I'd say Marshawn Lynch in SEA definitely qualifies.

Lynch is a very good back. I'd love to see him in stripes but I think there's a decent chance that he's a salary cap casualty next year and the 'Hawks let him go. They have two very good backups. And I don't think you'll see much of a dropoff in production. Conclusion: it is a system thing

[Yachtzee]

Lynch is a very good back. I'd love to see him in stripes but I think there's a decent chance that he's a salary cap casualty next year and the 'Hawks let him go. They have two very good backups. And I don't think you'll see much of a dropoff in production. Conclusion: it is a system thing

I would agree. In days of yore when defensive linemen and linebackers were slower, a fast RB could dominate the game. These days, when even defensive linemen are putting up impressive times in the 40 yd dash, it's much more difficult for RBs to dominate the game. Football is a much faster game today, which is why good blocking schemes are becoming more important to a successful running game. Meanwhile, as defenders get faster, RBs are becoming increasingly fungible.

[MWM]

Jamaal Charles and LeSean McCoy are both star RBs. Next to AP, they are the 2 best in the game and both have potential to be HOF caliber.

[19braves77]

I was listening to talk radio about Trent Richardson and a Alabama coach said that the line that Richardson and Ingram played behind aided them. The coach said Lacy would have started from day one if he didnt suffer a injury and is the better back of the three. Sean Payton even said yesterday they would like to run more then have but the stregthen of the OL now is pass blocking.

I think Trent will have to be happy with being a Sproles type player minus the speed. If not that he needs to be in a rushing first offense and who does that now in the NFL ?

[Tom Servo]

When dudes like Arian Foster (undrafted) and Alfred Morris (6th round) come along, and to a lesser extent Zac Stacy (5th round), Bryce Brown (7th round) Rashad Jennings (7th round), Chris Ivory (undrafted), LeGarrette Blount (undrafted), and Bobby Rainey (undrafted), it definitely makes drafting a running back early seem like a waste of a valuable resource. Lots of dudes out there who can tote the rock effectively for at least a few seasons.

[Sea Ray]

When dudes like Arian Foster (undrafted) and Alfred Morris (6th round) come along, and to a lesser extent Zac Stacy (5th round), Bryce Brown (7th round) Rashad Jennings (7th round), Chris Ivory (undrafted), LeGarrette Blount (undrafted), and Bobby Rainey (undrafted), it definitely makes drafting a running back early seem like a waste of a valuable resource. Lots of dudes out there who can tote the rock effectively for at least a few seasons.

I agree with you in general but I'll add that Gio Bernard has been huge for the Bengals this year and I don't think that sort of talent could have been picked up off the streets

[bucksfan2]

When dudes like Arian Foster (undrafted) and Alfred Morris (6th round) come along, and to a lesser extent Zac Stacy (5th round), Bryce Brown (7th round) Rashad Jennings (7th round), Chris Ivory (undrafted), LeGarrette Blount (undrafted), and Bobby Rainey (undrafted), it definitely makes drafting a running back early seem like a waste of a valuable resource. Lots of dudes out there who can tote the rock effectively for at least a few seasons.

A lot of what makes running backs successful is the scheme they play in. Foster was great running in the zone blocking scheme because he was a great cut back runner. Morris found himself in a good situation with Shanahan who has been very successful with RB's.

I don't think I would be touting the praise of the likes of Jennings, Ivory, Blount, Rainey, or Brown just yet. Those guys are serviceable but hardly irreplaceable like the top tier RB's. I think its foolish to draft a RB high in the draft, but at the same time I also thought it was foolish to draft a WR in the top 5. But then AJ Green came along and made me change my mind. It is one of those positions where if the RB is truly great (see AP) they can be a big time difference maker.

[traderumor]

I agree with you in general but I'll add that Gio Bernard has been huge for the Bengals this year and I don't think that sort of talent could have been picked up off the streets
Bernard seems to make the point about not making a RB a high first rounder. Look at what he brings to the table and there were questions about him being overdrafted at the position he was.

[Sea Ray]

Bernard seems to make the point about not making a RB a high first rounder. Look at what he brings to the table and there were questions about him being overdrafted at the position he was.

There were questions last Spring. I haven't heard anyone question where he was drafted lately

[traderumor]

There were questions last Spring. I haven't heard anyone question where he was drafted latelyWhich isn't really the point.

[Sea Ray]

It's been over a decade now since the new Browns came to being. At the time the talk was that it might be worth it to go 3 yrs w/o a franchise if that's what it took to get rid of an owner. The idea was even floated here in Cincinnati. I chimed in that I'd gladly go w/o the Bengals for 3 yrs in order to get rid of the Brown family but I was not convinced that we'd be granted another franchise so I opted against it. It's Mike/Katie and Co or nothing here.

Well, I throw this out for Browns fans. In hindsight, was it worth it to get rid of Art Modell? You've had a couple different owners since but are they any better than Modell?

[Tom Servo]

I've always liked the Browns for someone who has no attachment to them, but man, it's getting to the point where you start to think maybe the NFL shouldn't have bothered bringing them back...

[Kingspoint]

From Rotoworld w/ Rotoworld comments:

Browns owner Jimmy Haslam has pleaded for patience with the team's coaching search.

"We have purposefully been very methodical in our approach," Haslam said in a Wednesday letter to season-ticket holders. "We believe it is very important to stay disciplined to this process and to interview all of the candidates on our list. We are strongly committed to finding the right person to coach the Cleveland Browns." Haslam's letter comes after the Browns were reportedly spurned by Patriots OC Josh McDaniels and Cardinals DC Todd Bowles. The team is thought to be waiting on Broncos OC Adam Gase, though NFL.com's Mike Silver has hinted it's no sure thing Gase will bolt Denver. Of the six teams to fire their head coach, Cleveland is the only one yet to find a replacement.

Source: Akron Beacon-Journal

[Chip R]

From Rotoworld w/ Rotoworld comments:

Browns owner Jimmy Haslam has pleaded for patience with the team's coaching search.

That's rich coming from someone who fired their coach after only 1 year on the job.

[jimbo]

From Rotoworld w/ Rotoworld comments:

Browns owner Jimmy Haslam has pleaded for patience with the team's coaching search.

"We have purposefully been very methodical in our approach," Haslam said in a Wednesday letter to season-ticket holders. "We believe it is very important to stay disciplined to this process and to interview all of the candidates on our list. We are strongly committed to finding the right person to coach the Cleveland Browns." Haslam's letter comes after the Browns were reportedly spurned by Patriots OC Josh McDaniels and Cardinals DC Todd Bowles. The team is thought to be waiting on Broncos OC Adam Gase, though NFL.com's Mike Silver has hinted it's no sure thing Gase will bolt Denver. Of the six teams to fire their head coach, Cleveland is the only one yet to find a replacement.



Source: Akron Beacon-Journal

LOL, they need to put up a giant circus tent over Cleveland Browns stadium, or whatever it's called now. Browns fans really deserve better.

[dfs]

That's rich coming from someone who fired their coach after only 1 year on the job.

Yup. Anybody who deserves to be a head coach in the nfl has to look at this job and think.... I'll take the next one that comes along.

[Kingspoint]

LOL, they need to put up a giant circus tent over Cleveland Browns stadium, or whatever it's called now. Browns fans really deserve better.

Olberman did a 10-mimute piece last night on the owner's letter to the fans. It was hilarious.

The owner is so far out there. As Olberman put it, "Why does this guy even own a football team?"

[indyscott]

Olberman did a 10-mimute piece last night on the owner's letter to the fans. It was hilarious.

The owner is so far out there. As Olberman put it, "Why does this guy even own a football team?"

A better question is why Olberman has a show

[KoryMac5]

Taking this much time is going to handcuff the new coach on getting his staff together.

[Kingspoint]

A better question is why Olberman has a show

I was expecting that, but it was still a very funny segment.

[RedTeamGo!]

A better question is why Olberman has a show

Because he is smart, witty, entertaining, knowledgeable about sports and not afraid to ask hard questions?

[WrongVerb]

A better question is why Olberman has a show

Because there are still a few people in the broadcasting world that he hasn't burned bridges with?

[Tom Servo]

According to Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer, Broncos offensive coordinator Adam Gase is “leaning toward” staying with Denver for the 2014 season.

[WVRed]

Cleveland needs someone who can give them a philosophy and identity. Someone who they can turn over the keys to the franchise to and have them make all of the decisions.

Mike Shanahan would be ideal for Cleveland. Would never happen, but someone who could build a franchise in their image.

[Wonderful Monds]

Because he is smart, witty, entertaining, knowledgeable about sports and not afraid to ask hard questions?

Yeah I mean say what you will about the rest of his work, but the guy can do a pretty good sports show. He's the best thing on ESPN right now along with SVP & Russillo.

[Sea Ray]

It really doesn't matter what myself, or any Brown fan, thought of the draft AT THAT TIME, as far as any relevancy to the current situation.

Everyone knows that 1st round picks, even though players had stellar college careers, that it doesn't always translate into success at the NFL level. The list of names is endless. There is always a risk involved. But that is the chance every NFL takes, and basically have to.



I never "soured" on the drafting of Richardson. All I've said was that I understand the direction the new ownership, and coaching staff, are trying to take this offense, and that players like Richardson and Weeden, aren't the style of players that they feel will help them achieve that. They didn't draft these guys, and so they have every right, since the ownership hired (entrusted) them, to then build THEIR team in accordance to the scheme they think will bring a greater chance of success.

I like Richardson. I had no problem when they drafted him either. He was a stellar RB at Alabama and we needed a RB. My only concern THEN was that he did have an injury history. And he played hurt his rookie year too, and even had two broken ribs. And in the first two games his numbers weren't that impressive either. Now that wasn't all his fault, but again, I just don't think he is the type/style of RB that Chud/Turner want to build the future on.

And look at his numbers so far in his brief career. They aren't the numbers of a "elite" RB for sure. If the Browns thought TR was going to live up to their original intentions they wouldn't have traded him. He has a 3.5 yds/carry and only three 100 yard games. So maybe the NEW management felt his trade value would only continue to decrease over time, and trading him now would be their best opportunity to maximize his trade value? Possible? Only time will tell.



One can say that about a majority of NFL teams. A lot of times it's a coin flip with 1st round picks because, again, stellar college talent does not translate into success in the NFL. Look at the current number of highly touted 1st round picks that have failed or are struggling to the point the pundits, and fans, are starting to ask questions.

Check this article out on NFL 1st round draft history since 1995..... http://www.cstv.com/genrel/040805aaa.html

And here's another one. Go back to 1999 (when the Browns came back), and go up through 2008, year-by-year, and look at all the busts ..... http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?season=1999&round=round1#round1


So yeah, the Browns management is going to have to do their "homework" like any teams does by the way. But the Browns’ current brain trust shouldn’t be handcuffed by the decisions of their predecessors (who are gone for good reason), and maybe, just maybe (time will tell) should receive credit for being bold enough to make such a drastic move just 1 1/2 years after drafting/anointing Richardson as a key piece to their franchise’s future. But that wasn't the current owner/management.



The 2014 QB class has a lot more to offer then last year's. And while Manziel is getting all the hype, I don't know if he is the best, or even a 1st round pick. We'll see. He has his flaws as far as an NFL-style QB and chances of "elite-hood".

Teddy Bridgewater/Louisville (only a Jr though)
Marcus Mariota/Oregon
Tajh Boyd/Clemson
Aaron Murray/Georgia
David Fales/San Jose State
AJ McCarron/Alabama

And there are others in the class.

And yes, the Browns will be in position to draft one. Who? I have no idea. Will any of these players succeed in the NFL? Your guess is as good as mine. LOL

GAC, I owe you an apology. Your tea leaves were more accurate than mine. They had a shot at every QB in this draft but one. I didn't foresee them losing almost all their remaining games but that's what you have to do to get a top notch pick. They've played this very well. Manziel is a wildcard but at least things won't be boring up there. Basically they traded Richardson for Manziel. I don't think anyone would say that's a bad deal now

[Assembly Hall]

GAC, I owe you an apology. Your tea leaves were more accurate than mine. They had a shot at every QB in this draft but one. I didn't foresee them losing almost all their remaining games but that's what you have to do to get a top notch pick. They've played this very well. Manziel is a wildcard but at least things won't be boring up there. Basically they traded Richardson for Manziel. I don't think anyone would say that's a bad deal now

After seeing T-Rich with a horseshoe on his lid, I would say the Browns made out like bandits!

[redsfanmia]

After seeing T-Rich with a horseshoe on his lid, I would say the Browns made out like bandits!

Let's give him this season before we make that call, maybe I'm an optimist.

[Kingspoint]

And, Haden gets more than Sherman, as expected...

From Rotoworld w/ Rotoworld comments:

Browns signed CB Joe Haden to a five-year, $68 million contract extension through the 2019 season.

Somewhat coming out of nowhere to close the deal, the Browns have Haden locked up through his age-30 season. Per PFT's Michael David Smith, the deal includes a $14 million signing bonus and $22 million fully guaranteed. Another $23 million is guaranteed for injury. All of the figures surpass Richard Sherman's deal, which is actually a year shorter in length. Haden was a top-18 corner at PFF last season. Quarterbacks had a meager 75.2 passer rating throwing at the former No. 7 overall pick. The Browns got Haden some help this past weekend in the draft, taking CBs Justin Gilbert eighth overall and Pierre Desir in the fourth round.

Source: Profootballtalk on NBC Sports

- - - Updated - - -


And, Haden gets more than Sherman, as expected...

From Rotoworld w/ Rotoworld comments:

Browns signed CB Joe Haden to a five-year, $68 million contract extension through the 2019 season.

Somewhat coming out of nowhere to close the deal, the Browns have Haden locked up through his age-30 season. Per PFT's Michael David Smith, the deal includes a $14 million signing bonus and $22 million fully guaranteed. Another $23 million is guaranteed for injury. All of the figures surpass Richard Sherman's deal, which is actually a year shorter in length. Haden was a top-18 corner at PFF last season. Quarterbacks had a meager 75.2 passer rating throwing at the former No. 7 overall pick. The Browns got Haden some help this past weekend in the draft, taking CBs Justin Gilbert eighth overall and Pierre Desir in the fourth round.

Source: Profootballtalk on NBC Sports

[Chip R]

Richardson is a healthy inactive today.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2014/story/_/id/12151244/trent-richardson-indianapolis-colts-inactive-divisional-playoff-game-denver-broncos

[Razor Shines]

I basically thought Grigson should be fired for this ridiculous trade and I have seen nothing to change my opinion.

[Assembly Hall]

I basically thought Grigson should be fired for this ridiculous trade and I have seen nothing to change my opinion.


LOL........I didn't like it when it happened, and I sure as hell don't like it now.

[Tom Servo]

I basically thought Grigson should be fired for this ridiculous trade and I have seen nothing to change my opinion.
And yet whoever made the decision by the Browns, which turned out to be brilliant, is the one probably already out of a job seeing as Haslam basically cleaned house last offseason.

[Razor Shines]

And yet whoever made the decision by the Browns, which turned out to be brilliant, is the one probably already out of a job seeing as Haslam basically cleaned house last offseason.

It's amazing how many jobs Andrew Luck can save.

[redsfanmia]

And yet whoever made the decision by the Browns, which turned out to be brilliant, is the one probably already out of a job seeing as Haslam basically cleaned house last offseason.

The pick was parylayed into Johnny Football, looks like a wash

[Donder]

The pick was parylayed into Johnny Football, looks like a wash

Aw man, are you saying that if the Colts didn't have Richardson they could've had Manziel? It's hard to say Grigson should be fired when his team is about to advance to the AFC Championship. But I know, he could run Andrew Luck and a bunch of high schoolers out there and still win, right?

[Razor Shines]

Aw man, are you saying that if the Colts didn't have Richardson they could've had Manziel? It's hard to say Grigson should be fired when his team is about to advance to the AFC Championship. But I know, he could run Andrew Luck and a bunch of high schoolers out there and still win, right?

I don't think he's saying the Colts would have picked Manziel but that's what the Browns turned the pick into. The Colts could have used that pick for someone that could help the team though. It was a terrible trade.

[Donder]

I don't think he's saying the Colts would have picked Manziel but that's what the Browns turned the pick into. The Colts could have used that pick for someone that could help the team though. It was a terrible trade.

I understand what he was saying. I'm saying that a late first round pick is far from a sure thing (the Browns traded UP to get Manziel). You can argue that the Colts would have drafted someone more useful than Manziel but these are the same talent evaluators that thought highly enough of Richardson to trade the pick for him.

All that said, I think it's ridiculous to criticize the GM of the Colts at this moment. They looked phenomenal today.

[redsfanmia]

I understand what he was saying. I'm saying that a late first round pick is far from a sure thing (the Browns traded UP to get Manziel). You can argue that the Colts would have drafted someone more useful than Manziel but these are the same talent evaluators that thought highly enough of Richardson to trade the pick for him.

All that said, I think it's ridiculous to criticize the GM of the Colts at this moment. They looked phenomenal today.
It was an awful trade and I wishe the colts had the pick, but late first round picks are not sure things. It's odd about Grigson, he had a great first draft, a bad second draft and a very good third draft. He has been hit and miss on free agents but they have Luck and he elevates the talent.

[Assembly Hall]

It was an awful trade and I wishe the colts had the pick, but late first round picks are not sure things. It's odd about Grigson, he had a great first draft, a bad second draft and a very good third draft. He has been hit and miss on free agents but they have Luck and he elevates the talent.


As they always say....."On paper it looked pretty good". But we aren't talking paper...we are talking production and T-Poor aint giving the Colts any.

[Chip R]

Josh Gordon, again.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12226738/josh-gordon-cleveland-browns-facing-one-year-suspension-failing-another-drug-test

[Dom Heffner]

Tested positive... for alcohol?

[Kingspoint]

Tested positive... for alcohol?

When the judge says, "No", the judge means, "No". Surprise, surprise that he once again has trouble accepting "No" for an answer.

[bucksfan2]

When the judge says, "No", the judge means, "No". Surprise, surprise that he once again has trouble accepting "No" for an answer.

I am sorry but this is just plain stupid. I didn't think it was a judge saying no alcohol, I thought it was the NFL being able to test him for alcohol.

I think in the USA when you are over the age of 21 it is within your rights to consume alcohol. You are not able to consume alcohol and get behind the wheel of a car. You can't do certain things under the influence, but if you want to have drinks at home, at a friends place, or at a bar and abide by all the laws that govern this country then you shouldn't be punished for it.

[kaldaniels]

I am sorry but this is just plain stupid. I didn't think it was a judge saying no alcohol, I thought it was the NFL being able to test him for alcohol.

I think in the USA when you are over the age of 21 it is within your rights to consume alcohol. You are not able to consume alcohol and get behind the wheel of a car. You can't do certain things under the influence, but if you want to have drinks at home, at a friends place, or at a bar and abide by all the laws that govern this country then you shouldn't be punished for it.

The drug policy was agreed to by the NFLPA. Them's the rules, stupid as it may seem.

[RiverRat13]

I believe he was tested for alcohol since he had a DUI last year. I tend to agree that it is still silly to test for alcohol, but it is completely stupid to risk losing millions of dollars by drinking when you aren't allowed to do so.

[Sea Ray]

Testing for alcohol is nothing new. When Brett Favre had his issue with Vicodin, he was tested for alcohol for awhile after that. I remember him complaining about it at the time.