9/20/13 - Reds vs. Pirates

[OC_Red]

Brother with a bomb right here...callin it! :thumbup:

Oops. He hit a 40 foot bomb... :thumbdown:

[_Sir_Charles_]

:(:(:(

Well...to be fair, he DID bomb.

[Red Raindog]

I love the Mayor, but he's just rough to listen to...

I can't do it -- shoot me first

[powersackers]

I heard grande's call on that gdp and thought Luddy homered. Omg

[757690]

Brewers up 3-1 after one.

[Kc61]

Jeez, I thought Votto was slow. Luddy put him to shame there.

I would argue that the absence of team speed has really hurt the Reds this season.

[Redsfansince72]

i hope it isnt a huge mistake by Walt by doing nothing to improve the offense at the deadline and he was counting on Ludwick to return to form instead of how he is hitting. yes he got a single, but how many teams bat a guy 4th with 2 homeruns on the season??

[Falls City Beer]

If he wants to be rated higher he shouldn't hit .237.

Great D at a premium defensive position and a .750 ish career OPS? That's a heck of a player for someone who is essentially invisible nationally.

[1940757690]

Brewers up 3-1 after one.

Just wonderful, fantastic news. If the Crew can terrorize the RedBirds like they've terrorized us this year, maybe all the guys can feel better about themselves (while they close some real ground). :thumbup:

[Red Raindog]

I would argue that the absence of team speed has really hurt the Reds this season.

combined with knucklehead base running too often

[1940757690]

Great D at a premium defensive position and a .750 ish career OPS? That's a heck of a player for someone who is essentially invisible nationally.

Hey! I'm east coast. I see him. Have been seeing him. :)

[50YrRedsFan]

that was less than exciting Luddy

Haven't really got much from Ludwick since he returned. The #4 hole could have used a big bopper all season.

[OC_Red]

Ugh... first and second 1 out...cmon Mat...

[Redsfansince72]

i change my mind a one game playoff against the Pirates i want Bailey

[Red Raindog]

Ugh... first and second 1 out...cmon Mat...

had one - but he was hitting 5th

no idea why this was appended to this post

[_Sir_Charles_]

It's so hard for me to stay pumped up for this game tonight. I keep hearing "we're off to see the wizard" in the background. It feels odd to fist-pump to the soundtrack of the lollypop guild singing. *sigh* This house needs some boys. :O)

[50YrRedsFan]

i hope it isnt a huge mistake by Walt by doing nothing to improve the offense at the deadline and he was counting on Ludwick to return to form instead of how he is hitting. yes he got a single, but how many teams bat a guy 4th with 2 homeruns on the season??

2 HR's in 106 AB; 10 rbi's

[Redsfansince72]

honestly i dnt like Grande.. sometimes i think he jinxes the Reds

[Falls City Beer]

Yeah, Ludwick's got no business in the 4 hole.

[OC_Red]

Latos is possessed by the spirit of Volquez tonight...seems like half the time he doesn't know where the ball is going :(

And I reverse jinxed as Mat gets out of it with a big DP!

[Red Raindog]

Haven't really got much from Ludwick since he returned. The #4 hole could have used a big bopper all season.

he was hitting 5th

[Kc61]

Great D at a premium defensive position and a .750 ish career OPS? That's a heck of a player for someone who is essentially invisible nationally.

Career OPS means nothing for a second year player. It's not an average over a meaningful period. It's one good year, one not so good.

This season he's hitting .237 with a .711 OPS. Last year he was better. We'll find out in the future which is representative, or whether it's something in between.

Meanwhile, if he's underrated, it's because in his second season he hasn't hit.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Yessirree! Alright, now wake up the lumba!

[1940757690]

Big DP! Very big.

[Red Raindog]

Big DP! Very big.

assuming there is a big comeback :)

[50YrRedsFan]

he was hitting 5th

Have needed a legit #4 hitter all year (between Votto & Bruce).

[_Sir_Charles_]

I would argue that the absence of team speed has really hurt the Reds this season.

In order to argue that...wouldn't someone have to disagree with it first? I don't think you'll find any takers.

Looks like Latos is done.

[1940757690]

assuming there is a big comeback :)

Little chance of a comeback if two more runs had been plated.

[OC_Red]

Guessing Mat is done...Price on the phone as Mat looks on in a disgruntled manner.

[Kc61]

Nationals beating up on the Marlins tonight, Cards trail the suddenly difficult Brewers 3-1.

[_Sir_Charles_]

So close. Nice idea Jay. Big shift on and he nearly pulls it off.

[Billy Hamilton's Legs]

wtf was that.

[1940757690]

In order to argue that...wouldn't someone have to disagree with it first? I don't think you'll find any takers.

Looks like Latos is done.

Can "argue" something originally. Doesn't have to be in opposition to another view.

[OC_Red]

LOL...ok, I'm done for now, gotta catch the train...seeing Bruce bunt tells me its time to take a break.

[Red Raindog]

great idea Jay

poor execution

[Falls City Beer]

Career OPS means nothing for a second year player. It's not an average over a meaningful period. It's one good year, one not so good.

This season he's hitting .237 with a .711 OPS. Last year he was better. We'll find out in the future which is representative, or whether it's something in between.

Meanwhile, if he's underrated, it's because in his second season he hasn't hit.

Other than Choo and Votto, which Red has performed with the bat this season?

[George Foster]

bad bunt....best power hitter on the team bunting with no one on???

[Kc61]

In order to argue that...wouldn't someone have to disagree with it first? I don't think you'll find any takers.

Looks like Latos is done.

Just a turn of phrase, Charles.

Although some folks don't think speed is that important on offense.

But just a turn of phrase.

[DocRed]

Kudos to Bruce for trying to beat the shift...others could learn from him.

[Billy Hamilton's Legs]

you're down by two runs and you send your biggest slugger bunts?

[_Sir_Charles_]

wtf was that.

If he gets that past the pitcher, he walks to first base. Big shift on there.

[OldXOhio]

Other than Choo and Votto, which Red has performed with the bat this season?

Soto

[1940757690]

Nationals beating up on the Marlins tonight, Cards trail the suddenly difficult Brewers 3-1.

Denard Span restarting his hitting streak that ended last night at 29 games. League-leading 10th triple tonight. Good guy.

Postscript: It is a good thing the Nats descended into such a deep hole there was no real chance at recovery. The way they're playing now, they'd be very dangerous in a postseason. But they won't be there.

[Red Raindog]

Little chance of a comeback if two more runs had been plated.

point taken

[kbrake]

Liriano is grinding the LH's up. Bruce just trying to get on in front of the RH's. It was a good idea. Just didn't execute.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Just a turn of phrase, Charles.

Although some folks don't think speed is that important on offense.

But just a turn of phrase.

I know KC. I was just messing with you. Just my way of saying I agree with you and I'd be shocked if you found anybody who didn't. Probably the slowest team speed in my lifetime of watching the Reds.

[Billy Hamilton's Legs]

If he gets that past the pitcher, he walks to first base. Big shift on there.

Maybe Cozart, but Bruce? He needs to swing away.

[Red Raindog]

you're down by two runs and you send your biggest slugger bunts?

he's 0 for forever with this guy

[Kc61]

Other than Choo and Votto, which Red has performed with the bat this season?

I would say Bruce has. Phillips in some ways, but not overall. That's about it.

Paul hasn't been too bad overall as a bench hitter, at least statistically.

[Falls City Beer]

Well, the 3 run lead is going to hold up. Get em tomorrow.

[Red Raindog]

if Mes homers I will start calling him Rocco

[1940757690]

Well, the 3 run lead is going to hold up. Get em tomorrow.

3 run lead? 4-2, no?

[_Sir_Charles_]

Maybe Cozart, but Bruce? He needs to swing away.

You'd never see that shift on Cozy. And it's not like Jay's had any success against Liriano anyway. Take what you can. He just didn't get it down where he wanted.

[50YrRedsFan]

3 hits through 7 innings. The Reds won't go anywhere with that offensive production.
No Astro's like pitchers to face in the playoffs.

[OldXOhio]

Other than Choo and Votto, which Red has performed with the bat this season?

Jay Bruce hasn't hit and Todd Frazier is vastly underrated?

This is fun.

[1940757690]

Heisey on deck for Latos. Sheesh.

[Falls City Beer]

I would say Bruce has. Phillips in some ways, but not overall. That's about it.

Paul hasn't been too bad overall as a bench hitter, at least statistically.

Bruce has performed to his career norms. Still never built on his 2010 career best. But he's been consistent.

And he makes 15 million a season, plays a much less daunting defensive position, and plays it a tad less well.

[1940757690]

3 hits through 7 innings. The Reds won't go anywhere with that offensive production.
No Astro's like pitchers to face in the playoffs.

When hits are equal to or less than LOB in the late innings and your score is half that of your opponent (as is true now), that ain't a good thing.

[vaticanplum]

Have I talked about how much I loathe the "Cincinnati USA" commercial campaign? Does that grating robot spokeswoman think that listeners to the Cincinnati Reds baseball broadcast will accidentally book a trip to Cincinnati, Uzbekistan?

[_Sir_Charles_]

Logan on the bump.

[Kc61]

Bruce has performed to his career norms. Still never built on his 2010 career best. But he's been consistent.

And he makes 15 million a season, plays a much less daunting defensive position, and plays it a tad less well.

I'm not judging these guys by potential or salary. Just by performance.

Bruce has 120 OPS points on Frazier. Don't belong on the same screen.

Defensively I agree that Todd plays a more challenging position, but they are both corner men and both have to hit. And Bruce is no slouch defensively.

Again, the point was that Frazier is said to be underrated. My point is that he will be underrated as long as he puts up these kinds of numbers. Didn't say he had no value.

[PepperJack]

Bruce has performed to his career norms. Still never built on his 2010 career best. But he's been consistent.

And he makes 15 million a season, plays a much less daunting defensive position, and plays it a tad less well.


Bruce makes nowhere near 15 million.

[1940757690]

Have I talked about how much I loathe the "Cincinnati USA" commercial campaign? Does that grating robot spokeswoman think that listeners to the Cincinnati Reds baseball broadcast will accidentally book a trip to Cincinnati, Uzbekistan?

I loathe more MLB Network's penchant for updating us on irrelevant games (like tonight's Phils/Mets) while the Reds are getting some rare national coverage.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Bruce makes nowhere near 15 million.

7.5 this year. 10 next.

[1940757690]

Man. Not the best-possible start for Logan. Far from certain we can close a 2-run gap vs the Bucs' pen. Highly likely we'll struggle to close a wider gap.

[DocRed]

Ondrusek really??

[VottoFan54]

3 hits through 7 innings. The Reds won't go anywhere with that offensive production.
No Astro's like pitchers to face in the playoffs.

Well then I suppose it is a good thing that the Reds have beat Harvey, Colon, Liriano, Fernandez, Wainwright, Burnett, Greinke, Strasburg, and Kershaw this year. Relax man, there is more to the season than this one game.

[George Foster]

he does not have or has never had a put away pitch...

[_Sir_Charles_]

Love Todd's glove....but he makes me soooooo nervous with his bunt charges. Waaaay too close.

[toledodan]

3 run lead? 4-2, no?

Gas can on the bump. Give it a few pitches.

[LeDoux]

Have I talked about how much I loathe the "Cincinnati USA" commercial campaign? Does that grating robot spokeswoman think that listeners to the Cincinnati Reds baseball broadcast will accidentally book a trip to Cincinnati, Uzbekistan?

It's better than the theme song a few years back. It sounded like it was recorded in 1986.

[vaticanplum]

Liriano is almost worse at bunting than all of the Reds.

[Kc61]

Ondrusek really??

I think Dusty is telling us something. He let Latos pitch deep and didn't hit for him. He's using Logan now. I think he doesn't want to use up his bullpen for this game which he probably now views as a longshot.

[George Foster]

Love Todd's glove....but he makes me soooooo nervous with his bunt charges. Waaaay too close.

Pete Rose say Hi!:D

[1940757690]

Ondrusek almost threw away that bunt pickup to 1st. Settle down, buddy.

[kaldaniels]

Still waiting for the Ondrusekpolooza thread. Now that I can get on board with.

[1940757690]

I think Dusty is telling us something. He let Latos pitch deep and didn't hit for him. He's using Logan now. I think he doesn't want to use up his bullpen for this game which he probably now views as a longshot.

That would border on bizarre if true. Two runs?

Forget that...now 3 runs.

[Kc61]

This one is about done.

[kbrake]

Pitching Ondrusek when it matters and this is what it will get you.

[Red Raindog]

Man. Not the best-possible start for Logan. Far from certain we can close a 2-run gap vs the Bucs' pen. Highly likely we'll struggle to close a wider gap.

does Logan have an "out" pitch?

[vaticanplum]

Tabata knocks one in. 5-2. Hate this game.

[George Foster]

Ondrusek almost threw away that bunt pickup to 1st. Settle down, buddy.

Has no business pitching in a big game..

[DocRed]

I think Dusty is telling us something. He let Latos pitch deep and didn't hit for him. He's using Logan now. I think he doesn't want to use up his bullpen for this game which he probably now views as a longshot.

Exactly...game over.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Crappy luck for Logan there. 2 hoppers up the middle on a really good pitch too.

[R_Webb18]

This is why Logan O never enters the game when you can't give up any runs.

[vaticanplum]

I think Dusty is telling us something. He let Latos pitch deep and didn't hit for him. He's using Logan now. I think he doesn't want to use up his bullpen for this game which he probably now views as a longshot.

If that's the case I am not happy. This game wasn't and still isn't that long a shot. You can't throw away games in a playoff chase with nine left.

[1940757690]

does Logan have an "out" pitch?

None that I'm aware of.

[50YrRedsFan]

This one is about done.

Probably so. Time to walk the dogs

[powersackers]

Bad hitting beats bad pitching. You heard it here first. And you can thank Walt for it.

[Red Raindog]

he does not have or has never had a put away pitch...

I see you beat me to this

[kaldaniels]

does Logan have an "out" pitch?

He doesn't have an out pitch.
He doesn't have an in pitch.
He doesn't have an up pitch.
He doesn't have a down pitch.
He doesn't have a forwards pitch.
He doesn't have a backwards pitch.
He doesn't have a left pitch.
He doesn't have a right pitch.

[Kc61]

That would border on bizarre if true. Two runs?

Forget that...now 3 runs.

Reds only have three hits, Pirates with good pen, Reds with very little come from behind ability. Maybe I'm wrong, but going to Ondrusek there didn't seem like a big show of confidence on this game.

Whatever, hope Bailey has it tomorrow. The Nats aren't losing to the Marlins I'd hate to lose the big edge there.

[1940757690]

I'm going to need to summon all my short-memory powers for the 5-hour drive to Pittsburgh tomorrow after this. If they'd just come back, that drive would be a TON more fun.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Manny in

Marte picked off

[1940757690]

Reds only have three hits, Pirates with good pen, Reds with very little come from behind ability. Maybe I'm wrong, but going to Ondrusek there didn't seem like a big bet on this game.

Whatever, hope Bailey has it tomorrow. The Nats aren't losing to the Marlins I'd hate to lose the big edge there.

Was totally with you 'til you cited the Nats again. C'mon Kc. However well or unwell we play, that horse was beaten dead last week.

[DocRed]

Nice job by Parra.

[toledodan]

Crappy luck for Logan there. 2 hoppers up the middle on a really good pitch too.

Grooves too many two strike pitches

[kaldaniels]

Reds only have three hits, Pirates with good pen, Reds with very little come from behind ability. Maybe I'm wrong, but going to Ondrusek there didn't seem like a big bet on this game.

Whatever, hope Bailey has it tomorrow. The Nats aren't losing to the Marlins I'd hate to lose the big edge there.

No, no.

On behalf of most reasonable people, we should be done with the Nats talk.

[WVRedsFan]

When your "ace" allows 8 hits and their lefty "ace" has his way with the lineup, you know it's time to raise the white flag and win tomorrow. Of course, it's Burnett against Bailey and who knows how that will work out.

[1940757690]

He doesn't have an out pitch.
He doesn't have an in pitch.
He doesn't have an up pitch.
He doesn't have a down pitch.
He doesn't have a forwards pitch.
He doesn't have a backwards pitch.
He doesn't have a left pitch.
He doesn't have a right pitch.

Theodore Geissel could really respect that.

[kaldaniels]

Theodore Geissel could really respect that.

I felt Seussian writing that.

[WVRedsFan]

No, no.

On behalf of most reasonable people, we should be done with the Nats talk.

They're playing the Marlins and were playing the Pirates. Why not?

[_Sir_Charles_]

This is why Logan O never enters the game when you can't give up any runs.

I posted this earlier today, but nobody replied. I wonder what people think of it. I found it surprising.


I got curious about something. I've heard it said many times how good Sam LeCure is about stranding inherited runners. It got me thinking if it's just a fluke or not. So I looked at career numbers. They were quite surprising IMO. Especially when you take into account the number of opportunities guys have had in this situation.



Sam LeCure 89 inherited / 16 scored / 17% / 4 seasons / 241 ip
Logan Ondrusek 121 inherited / 25 scored / 20% / 4 seasons / 224 ip
Alfredo Simon 63 inherited / 15 scored / 23% / 6 seasons / 326 ip
Sean Marshall 173 inherited / 41 scored / 23% / 8 seasons / 599 ip
Aroldis Chapman 49 inherited / 14 scored / 28% / 4 seasons / 195 ip
Manny Parra 68 inherited / 28 scored / 41% / 6 seasons / 554 ip
JJ Hoover 46 inherited / 20 scored / 43% / 2 seasons / 93 ip
2 things jumped out at me. First, how many more times Logan's been brought in with runners on than other guys when considering career length (Sean's been around quite a bit longer than the others and Manny's really only been relieving for 2 years and around 100 ip). And #2 is that Logan's second on the team in this category.

Just food for thought.

[1940757690]

I felt Seussian writing that.

He may, in fact, have a belly itch.

[1940757690]

They're playing the Marlins and were playing the Pirates. Why not?

Please see other recent threads (2) on that topic. Not worth more keystrokes.

[Red Raindog]

Theodore Geissel could really respect that.

Dr. Suess too;)

[kaldaniels]

They're playing the Marlins and were playing the Pirates. Why not?

Math and probability.

Mind as well worry about hitting hit by a meteor.

[WVRedsFan]

I posted this earlier today, but nobody replied. I wonder what people think of it. I found it surprising.

I think dusty has given up and is saving Marshall for tomorrow. But who knows?

[_Sir_Charles_]

Grooves too many two strike pitches

That was a first pitch and it was down/away on the black. Pretty far from grooved. And I really think we harp on Logan too much. I don't think people realize how often he's put into a position with men on base compared to the rest of the pen. Most of the time, he strands them.

Makes me wonder what his numbers are when STARTING an inning compared to the other relievers.

[George Foster]

They're playing the Marlins and were playing the Pirates. Why not?

I totally agree with you WVRedsFan....there is still meat on the bone! If we get swept and they sweep the Marlins...it could get real ugly...

[vaticanplum]

So far the Rally Buckeye's powers have proven underwhelming.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Jeez Chris. :(

[George Foster]

That was a first pitch and it was down/away on the black. Pretty far from grooved. And I really think we harp on Logan too much. I don't think people realize how often he's put into a position with men on base compared to the rest of the pen. Most of the time, he strands them.

Makes me wonder what his numbers are when STARTING an inning compared to the other relievers.

Would like to know his numbers against teams with a winning record.

[_Sir_Charles_]

YIKES! Chin music on a bunt. Choo gets wood on it. Scary.

[1940757690]

I posted this earlier today, but nobody replied. I wonder what people think of it. I found it surprising.

Have to throw out JJ as an outlier with only 2 years. As for LO being 2nd, that'll happen statistically as the opportunity count increases.

[vaticanplum]

Honest to god after this week I think I may never want to see another bunt again.

[mbgrayson]

I hate bunting!

Specifically, I hate the Reds to be bunting!

[DocRed]

Get ready for a 1 game playoff in Pittsburgh.....

[Kc61]

Math and probability.

Mind as well worry about hitting hit by a meteor.

It would be very improbable. Like losing three games at home in a five game playoff series up 2-0.

We've seen some really odd stuff in baseball recently and I'll consider the Nats eliminated when they are eliminated. Until then I check their scores.

And whoever put the Marlins on their schedule for four games didn't help things.

[LeDoux]

I posted this earlier today, but nobody replied. I wonder what people think of it. I found it surprising.

Isn't this pretty close to a LOB%? A indication of luck?

[George Foster]

should Choo start against left handers with winning records?

[Red Raindog]

I hate bunting!

Specifically, I hate the Reds to be bunting!

Choo hasn't had a chance tonight

[WVRedsFan]

Get ready for a 1 game playoff in Pittsburgh.....

If we're lucky.

[kaldaniels]

It would be very improbable. Like losing three games at home in a five game playoff series up 2-0.

We've seen some really odd stuff in baseball recently and I'll consider the Nats eliminated when they are eliminated. Until then I check their scores.

And whoever put the Marlins on their schedule for four games didn't help things.

Way more improbable than that, you jokester you.

[kaldaniels]

If we're lucky.

Lucky = >95% chance????

Boo.

[kbrake]

If we're lucky.

Winning the second WC will require luck at this point?

[DocRed]

I see nothing tonight that convinces me that we will overtake the Pirates.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Isn't this pretty close to a LOB%? A indication of luck?

I don't know. That's why I posted it. I was surprised by it. If it was just one season, I'd blow it off as just a fluke thing...but I did career. I always had the feeling that when Logan lost it he TOTALLY lost it. In other words he'd have a few horrific games every year, but outside of those duds, he'd be very good. Looking at game logs, it seems to be the case. He doesn't strike guys out like most people like, but he seems to find success outside of those duds.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

Great AB by Heisey.

Logan Ondrusek? lol.

Was Choo squaring around to bunt? Maybe Hamilton should play CF next week vs. Liriano.

[vaticanplum]

It would be nice if the Reds could do a little something something offensively in the ninth. Even if they can't win, it'd be good to send a spark into tomorrow.

[Stray]

He's made us look bad with his slider tonight.

[WVRedsFan]

Lucky = >95% chance????

Boo.

Sorry, but I refuse to believe when you put your best pitcher against their best and the opposition owns us while the Nats get a cream puff, you lose when your best pitcher chokes. And that's what happened. And I hate it.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

Get ready for a 1 game playoff in Pittsburgh.....

With Liriano pitching again.

[George Foster]

I don't get the mind set that the Nationals are toast? They are playing the marlins and we are playing the Pirates 5 more times with a loss (probable) tonight.

It's an up hill battle no doubt, but it seems to happen to one team every year.

[Falls City Beer]

Good lord stop sweating the Nats. Please. These Reds are never going to go on a long winning streak, of course, but they've hardly fallen into huge losing ruts either. And they'd have to totally bottom out for the Nats to catch them.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Sam in for the 8th

[1940757690]

I hate bunting!

Specifically, I hate the Reds to be bunting!

I hate this game. Especially heading to PNC tomorrow. Short memory. Short Memory. I will have a short memory. I will have a short memory.


It would be very improbable. Like losing three games at home in a five game playoff series up 2-0.

We've seen some really odd stuff in baseball recently and I'll consider the Nats eliminated when they are eliminated. Until then I check their scores.

And whoever put the Marlins on their schedule for four games didn't help things.

Have said this a dozen or so times but, as reminder, Nats finish with six on the road split between Phoenix and St Louis. And, like I've said maybe 100 times, just ain't gonna happen for a host of reasons filling two recent threads.

[George Foster]

It would be nice if the Reds could do a little something something offensively in the ninth. Even if they can't win, it'd be good to send a spark into tomorrow.

The Pirates scored 10 runs their last game and hit our best pitcher pretty good tonight....not good.

[Red Buckeye]

The Reds will win games 2 and 3. No question about it. If they don't it will prove the Reds don't care about winning the division, which is the way it appears tonight.

So they have no choice but to win the next two games. They don't want to be losers to the crummy Pierats.

[DocRed]

NOW he brings in LeCure?? Genius Dusty....pure genius.

[kaldaniels]

Sorry, but I refuse to believe when you put your best pitcher against their best and the opposition owns us while the Nats get a cream puff, you lose when your best pitcher chokes. And that's what happened. And I hate it.

That's all in the past. Look forward my good man.

[Falls City Beer]

With Cueto, Leake, Arroyo, or Bailey pitching, this is probably tied or a one run game. Latos has been bad this month.

[vaticanplum]

NOW he brings in LeCure?? Genius Dusty....pure genius.

Sometimes I feel like Dusty is making is bullpen choices via dartboard.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Sam plunks McCutchen.

[_Sir_Charles_]

He warned the teams? Really?

That's kinda pointless.

Both Hurdle and Baker arguing. Both have a point. That's OVER-umping. Hurdle tossed.

[1940757690]

Totally unintentional that one.

Umps are going to dual warnings way too fast and way too often. Has become nearly standard operating procedure. Hurdle now gone.

Happened last night in DC too. Ian Desmond was hit opposite shoulder after a 3-run HR by Harper on a 3-0 count by a pitcher with a reputation for the fish. Much more obviously intentional situation but no pitcher ejection. Both teams warned. Nats bench coach ejected.

[malcontent]

With Liriano pitching again.
Gotta give the Pittsburgh FO credit for targeting Liriano. And Byrd. And Morneau.

Glad Walt feels good about the team.

[LeDoux]

I don't know. That's why I posted it. I was surprised by it. If it was just one season, I'd blow it off as just a fluke thing...but I did career. I always had the feeling that when Logan lost it he TOTALLY lost it. In other words he'd have a few horrific games every year, but outside of those duds, he'd be very good. Looking at game logs, it seems to be the case. He doesn't strike guys out like most people like, but he seems to find success outside of those duds.

It may have more to do with pitcher use. I would expect Marshall be to brought in to bail out Ondrusek than vice versa as one example. Perhaps the number of runners on first, second, or third is another part of the explanation.

[George Foster]

what ever happened to just walking to 1st?

good lord...it hit him in the upper arm...he can't throw over 89

[vaticanplum]

I swear to god, if I get an earful tomorrow about the vindictive nature of Sam LeCure and the way the umpires favor the Reds, I'm packing my bags and moving to the Yukon.

[Red Raindog]

got to love the Pirates complaining about this

[Red Raindog]

I swear to god, if I get an earful tomorrow about the vindictive nature of Sam LeCure and the way the umpires favor the Reds, I'm packing my bags and moving to the Yukon.

pack warm clothes

[WVRedsFan]

More reason to give the Bucs more incentive. This has been a disaster.

[Falls City Beer]

Sometimes I feel like Dusty is making is bullpen choices via dartboard.

I actually think its a crazy like a fox move. The Reds aren't going to put up the three runs necessary to win tikis game vs. the Pirates pen. Might as well chalk it up and save the higher leverage arms for a winnable game.

[Larkin Fan]

I'm experiencing deja vu. Seems like we've seen this happen before...

[George Foster]

I'd throw over 10 times to make him slide every time...cry baby!

[_Sir_Charles_]

It may have more to do with pitcher use. I would expect Marshall be to brought in to bail out Ondrusek than vice versa as one example. Perhaps the number of runners on first, second, or third is another part of the explanation.

Possibly.

My immediate thought was he's put into situations with guys on base more often...no wonder he gets ragged on more than others...more chances to fail.

[Magdal]

Did you see Dusty say "*ck that azzol!" pointing to the Pit. Manager?:)

[BuckeyeRedleg]

Casey and Grande are painful.

I'm thinking that Casey is enjoying the Pirates beating us.

[westofyou]

I thought pirates were supposed to be tough characters?

These pirates cry a lot

[_Sir_Charles_]

what ever happened to just walking to 1st?

good lord...it hit him in the upper arm...he can't throw over 89

Have you been plunked with a 90 mph fastball? I have. Doesn't matter WHERE it hits...it HURTS.

[kaldaniels]

Why was Dusty out arguing? I know it was an unnecessary warning but it favored the Reds.

[BCubb2003]

Isn't the whole point of warnings that you don't get a turn to throw at the other guy? What's the point of warnings at all if the other team gets a shot?

[LeDoux]

Sometimes I feel like Dusty is making is bullpen choices via dartboard.

Goat entrails.

[1940757690]

Why was Dusty out arguing? I know it was an unnecessary warning but it favored the Reds.

The warning takes away the inside edge for the Reds pitchers. Especially maddening if clearly unintentional as that was.

[WVRedsFan]

Casey and Grande are painful.

I'm thinking that Casey is enjoying the Pirates beating us.

Every time I hear that duo I think of the lost decade. No thanks.

[Red Raindog]

I thought pirates were supposed to be tough characters?

These pirates cry a lot

2 whiney teams ahead of us

oy

[Tom Servo]

I'm as down as anybody about this game, I stopped watching when the Pirates started playing add on, but you guys are really doing the 'all hope is lost' bit again? After the 99 other times when hope wasn't lost after declaring it was? It's all over when it's all over, and it's not all over.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Did you see Dusty say "*ck that azzol!" pointing to the Pit. Manager?:)

I think he was pointing to the HP ump. Duel warnings were totally uncalled for. Both managers clearly ticked about it...not each other.

[Magdal]

Why was Dusty out arguing? I know it was an unnecessary warning but it favored the Reds.Explaining that it was not intended

[George Foster]

Have you been plunked with a 90 mph fastball? I have. Doesn't matter WHERE it hits...it HURTS.

I have...and it does hurt but as a ML ball player I've never seen someone act like that when it hits you in the big part of your arm... maybe the elbo, or hand, not the big part of your arm

[vaticanplum]

i thought pirates were supposed to be tough characters?

These pirates cry a lot

LIKE a WATERFALL

[kaldaniels]

I'm as down as anybody about this game, I stopped watching when the Pirates started playing add on, but you guys are really doing the 'all hope is lost' bit again? After the 99 other times when hope wasn't lost after declaring it was? It's all over when it's all over, and it's not all over.

The Nats are coming!

[1940757690]

Explaining that it was not intended

It's not just that. Because of that, it's also unfairly limiting to the pitchers.

[WVRedsFan]

What was Phillips doing?

[Larkin Fan]

George Grande seems like a nice guy but he's bad luck for the Reds, pure and simple.

[1940757690]

The Nats are coming!

Be afraid! :D

[_Sir_Charles_]

Why was Dusty out arguing? I know it was an unnecessary warning but it favored the Reds.

Not really. If we hit another guy accidentally, we lose a pitcher. Yeah, the Pirates aren't able to "retaliate" but I really don't think the pirates are so dumb as to think it was intentional in the first place.

[Magdal]

I think he was pointing to the HP ump. Duel warnings were totally uncalled for. Both managers clearly ticked about it...not each other.OK..probly rite

[LeDoux]

Possibly.

My immediate thought was he's put into situations with guys on base more often...no wonder he gets ragged on more than others...more chances to fail.

Some pitchers seem to have a drop off from the stretch, while others don't?

[tomnuetten]

no manager or fan is happy if their mvp gets hbp in the most important part of the season...

there is a little bit of a history although those hbp´s weren´t intentional I can understand the anger of some pirates fans...

if it´s the other way around there would be some reds fans who think it´s intentional aswell

[George Foster]

George Grande seems like a nice guy but he's bad luck for the Reds, pure and simple.

It was on the air for every game during the lost decade....so maybe your right. I have thought the same thing myself.

[LeDoux]

I'm as down as anybody about this game, I stopped watching when the Pirates started playing add on, but you guys are really doing the 'all hope is lost' bit again? After the 99 other times when hope wasn't lost after declaring it was? It's all over when it's all over, and it's not all over.

Right on. Why anyone would bail out before the math requires it is beyond me.

[George Foster]

no manager or fan is happy if their mvp gets hbp in the most important part of the season...

there is a little bit of a history although those hbp´s weren´t intentional I can understand the anger of some pirates fans...

if it´s the other way around there would be some reds fans who think it´s intentional aswell

Brandon lost about 3-4 weeks of being productive after the Pirates hit him eariler in the summer...just sayin.

[WVRedsFan]

Brandon lost about 3-4 weeks of being productive after the Pirates hit him eariler in the summer...just sayin.

No such luck.

[Magdal]

In Milwaukee Bases loaded, Molina at bat..1 out...1 run game

[_Sir_Charles_]

AH! That's who that was. Christiani. He's warming now. I didn't know he got called up. I saw him the whole series in Houston and couldn't figure out who it was. He was always wearing the warmup jacket. It was bugging me for 4 days.

[WVRedsFan]

In Milwaukee Bases loaded, Molina at bat..1 out...1 run game

We're obviously playing for the wild card.

[George Foster]

In Milwaukee Bases loaded, Molina at bat..1 out...1 run game

Are the Cards really ever out of a game?

[kaldaniels]

The warning takes away the inside edge for the Reds pitchers. Especially maddening if clearly unintentional as that was.

True but it did the same for the Bucs put pitchers in the top of 9. I would have just sat there and let Clint get all huffy.

[Magdal]

Mopina is slow 6-4-3

[Kc61]

Brandon lost about 3-4 weeks of being productive after the Pirates hit him eariler in the summer...just sayin.

Exactly right. Pirates lead all MLB in hitting batters. What is Hurdle talking about?

[DocRed]

We're obviously playing for the wild card.

In Pittsburgh......

[_Sir_Charles_]

Nice pitch! K Alvarez

[George Foster]

True but it did the same for the Bucs put pitchers in the top of 9. I would have just sat there and let Clint get all huffy.

before Sunday afternoon is over, a Red will have to pay a price...book it.

[Red Raindog]

Exactly right. Pirates lead all MLB in hitting batters. What is Hurdle talking about?

He doth protest too much

[_Sir_Charles_]

Back to back punchouts for Sam.

[Tom Servo]

In Pittsburgh......
Because this one game obviously dictates how the rest of the games with Pittsburgh will go, just like we were obviously going to get our ass kicked by the Cardinals the rest of the year after taking a few thrashings.

[_Sir_Charles_]

5-2 Buccos. Votto-Ludwick-Bruce due up.

[1940757690]

Have we had a more than 3-run, 9th inning comeback against any of the now PS-contending teams all year?

I was in Boston on a biz trip earlier this summer when the Sox came back from being down 7-2 vs the Ms bottom 9 to win. Remember sitting there at Fenway thinking wow, I'm not sure we could ever do that with the current lineup.

[OldXOhio]

Not really. If we hit another guy accidentally, we lose a pitcher. Yeah, the Pirates aren't able to "retaliate" but I really don't think the pirates are so dumb as to think it was intentional in the first place.

They have been that dumb in the past when McCutcheon's been hit.

[Larkin Fan]

before Sunday afternoon is over, a Red will have to pay a price...book it.

Probably Choo. Poor guy has a target painted on his back.

[1940757690]

5-2 Buccos. Votto-Ludwick-Bruce due up.

Normally, with any team's heart-of-the-order, you'd turn the cap inside out and say bring it on. But we don't typically do that for whatever reason? We should be able to do it but I can't recall us doing it once this year against a playoff-bound team.

[_Sir_Charles_]

That's a guy I've wanted the Reds to go after for about 3 years now. Mark Melancon. Now others know how good he is...crud.

[George Foster]

Dusty and LeCure were discussing the beanning. Dusty not to happy, he knows whats coming..

[_Sir_Charles_]

Normally, with any team's heart-of-the-order, you'd turn the cap inside out and say bring it on. But we don't typically do that for whatever reason? We should be able to do it but I can't recall us doing it once this year against a playoff-bound team.

Maybe that's the problem. We don't do it.

*turns cap inside out*

[Old NDN]

I see nothing tonight that convinces me that we will overtake the Pirates.

....or be able to hang on to the 2nd wild card spot. Just when the Reds have a chance to help themselves, they "spit the bit". Time to see what ya got Reds!

[1940757690]

....or be able to hang on to the 2nd wild card spot. Just when the Reds have a chance to help themselves, they "spit the bit". Time to see what ya got Reds!

Wow. Just, wow. That's crazy talk.

[George Foster]

ah.....the bright lights.....

[DocRed]

Joey.....

[Red Raindog]

Votto fails err flails

[miamiredskin]

Dusty and LeCure were discussing the beanning. Dusty not to happy, he knows whats coming..


and sunshine-pumper George describes it as a "pat-on-the-back." haha

[Marc D]

Big Game Joey Votto

[_Sir_Charles_]

Luddy starts it off. Oppo single.

[kbrake]

Well I was going to go light myself on fire with the season being over and all, guess I'll wait thanks Ludwick.

[Red Raindog]

and sunshine-pumper George describes it as a "pat-on-the-back." haha

how do you do it?

listen to them I mean

[_Sir_Charles_]

Single up the middle for Bruce....nope. Perfect defensive positioning. Kudos to the Pitt coaching staff there.

[1940757690]

Luddy starts it off. Oppo single.

And Jay near ends it. Even if Todd homered here, still tough to believe we'd get another.

Todd gets a gift with the E.

Tying run to the plate in the form of Cozy.

[vaticanplum]

No matter how bad all of you feel, you can take relief in knowing that Marty Brennaman feels worse.

[Magdal]

Brewers rallying 4 to 2 now

[Stray]

what the heck was that

[_Sir_Charles_]

Frazier reaches via error. Air mailed into the dugout. Run scores. 5-3

Todd on 2nd. Cozy up as the tying run. Single to right. 1st & 3rd with Mesoraco up.

[vaticanplum]

Mercer throws a ball into the dugout! 5-3. Rally time! (?)

[George Foster]

we have a heart beat......

[Red Raindog]

make my day guys

[vaticanplum]

why didn't Frazier run?

[George Foster]

we have a heart beat......

pump, pump, pump, pump..

[Larkin Fan]

....or be able to hang on to the 2nd wild card spot. Just when the Reds have a chance to help themselves, they "spit the bit". Time to see what ya got Reds!

Don't look now. The sky is falling. Better take cover.

[Stray]

Cozart has looked so much better at the plate

[1940757690]

This sets up something wonderful or, more likely (?), something very painful.

Meso up as go-ahead run with runners at the corners.

[Red Raindog]

offer still stands Mes
homer and I call you Rocco

[George Foster]

Hamilton run for Cozart?

[Larkin Fan]

Extra outs are good.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Hamilton in at 1st

[1940757690]

BHam on for Cozy! All bets off now.

[George Foster]

Hamilton run for Cozart?

thank you....I can manage this team:laugh:

[_Sir_Charles_]

Swiped. Perfect throw....okay, not perfect...pretty darned good though.

[Kc61]

The Pirates TV announcers. Every time I turn on the sound, it lasts one batter and I mute it. Gee whiz, it's a regular season game between two teams very likely to make the playoffs.

[Stray]

come on mes one time

[vaticanplum]

Hamilton steals a base. Yawn.

[1940757690]

Billy's a SURE THING. Wow.

C'mon Meso....all I want for Xmas is a single.

[George Foster]

here comes the cheeze

[1940757690]

hitter's count 2-0

[vaticanplum]

The Pirates TV announcers. Every time I turn on the sound, it lasts one batter and I mute it. Gee whiz, it's a regular season game between two teams very likely to make the playoffs.

This is the reason I don't have cable. Not kidding.

[Kc61]

Just make some contact, fella.

[Stray]

hasn't thrown a strike to Mes yet...a little too excited

[Kc61]

I'm rooting for two balks.

[George Foster]

Mez loves the BEE GEE's

[WVRedsFan]

Mes looks absolutely scared to death at the plate

[miamiredskin]

how do you do it?

listen to them I mean



the look on their faces wasn't congratulatory/thank you.