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View Full Version : This may have seemed crazy to think about a few weeks ago but...



TitosLoveChild
09-24-2013, 02:08 PM
if Ludwick struggles to end the season, would you consider starting Hamilton in CF and moving Choo to left for the playoffs? (Note: This may be an overreaction on my part to last nights game.)

Its a lot of pressure to put on the kid, but we also really dont know how he will respond. He seems fearless out there from what we've seen of him.

HoosierReds
09-24-2013, 03:04 PM
I would consider it but I don't think Dusty will.

Beer&Bourbon
09-24-2013, 03:37 PM
He's surely done great in the games that he's played, but I don't want to rely on him too much. I think using him as a pinch runner to continue to disturb opposing pitchers is the best tactic for the playoffs (esp. in a one game WC - if we don't win the division).

PTjvs
09-24-2013, 03:46 PM
No, there is no chance you do this every night. Maybe you give Hamilton a start in a situation that looks particularly advantageous, though.

jvs

Bob Sheed
09-24-2013, 04:38 PM
"Gotta play the vet, every time, dude. Younger players will get their chance soon enough, dude. Nevermind what is best for the team."

PTjvs
09-24-2013, 04:44 PM
I don't think it is clear that starting Hamilton over Ludwig is best for the team.

jvs

Redsfan08
09-24-2013, 05:50 PM
My concern is that Ludwick willstruggle throuout the playoffs and then I will spend some time wondering what if we did start Billy Hamilton.

PTjvs
09-24-2013, 06:00 PM
No concern that Hamilton will struggle throughout the playoffs, and then you will spend some time wondering what if we did start Ryan Ludwig?

jvs

Lewdog
09-24-2013, 07:18 PM
Here is the real problem this poses, where do you bat Hamilton and Choo? If you bat Hamilton first, then Choo can't hit second because that creates back to back lefties in Choo and Votto which Dusty tries to avoid at all costs. The only open spot for Choo would be in the 7th hole which is way to far down the line up for him. Do you bat Hamilton second? That is a possibility but that means Hamilton is going to have to earn getting on base more because if Choo is already on and with Votto behind him, he isn't going to get walked very often.

Then you have to wonder if Hamilton is put on the playoff roster, if Ludwick is even on the list! Do you put him on there over Heisey who is better defensively?

HoosierReds
09-25-2013, 06:18 AM
The year or next you can't bat Hamilton behind Choo. Putting potentially an all-time great base stealer behind a guy who gets on 1st base 35-40% of the time doesn't make sense. I think Hamilton has to lead off if he plays and you bat Choo 2nd:
B Ham
Choo
Votto
Phillips
Bruce
Frazier
Cozart
Catcher

Lewdog
09-25-2013, 06:46 AM
The year or next you can't bat Hamilton behind Choo. Putting potentially an all-time great base stealer behind a guy who gets on 1st base 35-40% of the time doesn't make sense. I think Hamilton has to lead off if he plays and you bat Choo 2nd:
B Ham
Choo
Votto
Phillips
Bruce
Frazier
Cozart
Catcher

That's not going to happen because Dusty won't put two lefties in a row in the line up.

westofyou
09-25-2013, 09:26 AM
That's not going to happen because Dusty won't put two lefties in a row in the line up.

You sure bout that?

RedlegJake
09-25-2013, 09:34 AM
I wouldn't start out with Billy leading off next season if Choo is re-signed. Why put that pressure on him starting off? Bat him 8th (or never happen with Dusty but 9th and the pitcher 8th) and let him acclimate. As the game goes on he becomes a defacto leadoff man to Choo anyway, pressure is eased on him, and if his OBP and hitting holds up you can move him up down the road.

The chance of signing Choo remains slim, imo, so it's likely a moot point anyway.

CoachBombay
09-25-2013, 09:44 AM
I hate the thought of choo not being on this team

Lewdog
09-25-2013, 10:05 AM
You sure bout that?


Yes, it has been said over and over again that Dusty doesn't like batting two lefties in a row, especially with his best players, because it allows other teams to use situational lefty relief pitchers for more than one hitter without the Reds getting their own advantage of a lefty verses righty matchup between. Dusty would rather see the other team have to use multiple pitchers, sometimes of which means using their only lefty in the bullpen for just one hitter, or see the left hander have to face a right hander in between hitters in order to be used against two left handed hitters. This is one reason why Bruce hits 5th instead of cleanup behind Votto.

Bob Sheed
09-25-2013, 04:25 PM
You sure bout that?

"Can't bat 2 lefties in a row, dude. It's in the book."

Bob Sheed
09-25-2013, 04:26 PM
Bat him 8th (or never happen with Dusty but 9th and the pitcher 8th) and let him acclimate.

"Pitchers bat 9th dude, it's in the book."

Beer&Bourbon
09-26-2013, 12:53 PM
"Can't bat 2 lefties in a row, dude. It's in the book."

Lineup from 25 Sept

CF: Billy Hamilton
LF: Shin-Soo Choo
1B: Joey Votto
2B: Brandon Phillips
RF: Jay Bruce
3B: Todd Frazier
C: Devin Mesoraco
SS: Cesar Izturis
SP: Mat Latos

This certainly surprised a few Dusty nay-sayers. I would have said that this was the way to order the lineup; sometimes Dusty agrees.

LexRedsFan
09-26-2013, 01:04 PM
You can hit Hamilton and Choo back to back because billy is a switch hitter.

Beer&Bourbon
09-26-2013, 02:28 PM
Right, but that also puts Choo in the 2 spot immediately ahead of Votto. So you're still batting two lefties in a row (regardless of Hamilton's ability to switch).

I like this lineup, though, because Hamilton is before Choo; it's not beneficial to put the speed of Hamilton behind Choo. Plus, Hamilton, Choo, and Votto on base with no outs dramatically improves our odds of scoring a run.

Lewdog
09-26-2013, 08:40 PM
If you want to take full advantage of Hamilton's speed on the bases, wouldn't it be more of a wise move to put Votto behind Hamilton and Choo third? Votto takes more pitches and will give Hamilton a better chance to steal and get in scoring position.

Beer&Bourbon
09-26-2013, 10:03 PM
If you want to take full advantage of Hamilton's speed on the bases, wouldn't it be more of a wise move to put Votto behind Hamilton and Choo third? Votto takes more pitches and will give Hamilton a better chance to steal and get in scoring position.

Good point. Plus, Choo might actually make contact to bring Hamilton in. Votto's an on base machine, but sometimes you just want to see him hit the dang ball.

Lewdog
09-27-2013, 01:12 AM
Good point. Plus, Choo might actually make contact to bring Hamilton in. Votto's an on base machine, but sometimes you just want to see him hit the dang ball.

I have to actually eat my words. I looked it up, and Choo takes 4.22 pitches per plate appearance compared to Votto's 4.18.

Choo leads the team among regular players. The list of players that have batted second this year didn't fair so well, and Brandon Phillips is also far down the list with 3.64 pitches per plate appearance.