2013 Bengals Discussion (Part 2)

[Boss-Hog]

Please continue your 2013 Bengals discussion here.

[New York Red]

I think part of the problem was that the offensive line really seamed to have an off day. The Browns' d-line seemed to get good penetration all day and that bad snap by Cook was a drive killer.
I thought control of the LOS was the story of the day, along with Dalton's terrible game. The Browns dominated both lines in the first half. The Bengals D-line dominated the LOS the second half, until the late 95 yd drive, but the Bengals O-line was awful all day.

[GAC]

As is our routine, I (Brown fan) sat down at my brother's (Bengal fan) to watch the game. I picked the Bengals to win this game too. The Browns weren't gong to get away with the trick plays like they did last week vs the Vikings. And when they kicked that on-side after going up 7-0 I let out a huge sigh.

The Brown's D is legit. It was the only positive I really saw going into this season. I was very skeptical of the offense with Weeden in control.

Haden totally dominated AJ. My brother was screaming "Is he the only receiver Dalton can throw to?" LOL

But the Brown's defense was swarming. And they had Dalton rattled all day. I have no idea where he was throwing some of those balls. He had a lot of pressure coming, and I was really impressed with rookie Mingo too.

On offense... getting Josh Gordon back was huge, but TE Cameron has been simply phenomenal.

But having said all this, and as we watched the game, with all it's miscues, stupid penalties, and missed opportunities by both teams, I looked at my brother at one point, watching this so-called Battle of Ohio, and said "Typical Clowns vs Bungles game wouldn't you say?" "Yep" he replied, and then added "Marvin Lewis is the worst coach in the NFL! He ain't never going to take us to that next level!" LOL

[New York Red]

I'll ask this again: Has an NFL head coach ever been with the same franchise as long as ML has been with the Bengals, without winning a playoff game?

[bucksfan2]

I love the Monday overreactions. Just 4 weeks ago after one football game Jaworski declared that Chip Kelly's offense was going to revolutionize the NFL.

Couple of things to take into consideration. It is hard to win NFL games on the road, period. Secondly, the Browns have a legit defense with a CB who has gone toe to toe with AJ Green back to college.

That was probably Andy's worst game since his rookie year. He was missing his target high and never seemed to get into a groove. BJGE should be on the field only to spell Bernard. Guy looks to be a step slower this season and running against a stout DLine is a recipe for disaster. The Bengals really screwed the game up in the 1st half when they settled for a chip shot FG and then was stuffed on 4th and short. They should have walked way with at least 10 points instead of 3.

Bryan Hoyer made enough plays against a banged up secondary to win a football game. The Bengals DLine made things too easy on Hoyer until the second half. The final TD the Browns scored was a killer but the offense did little to help. When AJ is shut down guys like Sanu, Gresham, and Jones MUST step up. They didn't yesterday.

Its not a bad loss, its not going to define their season. Its a game they should have won but didn't. Now the task gets tougher facing a Patriots team that is finding ways to get things done. Hopefully Nelson and Hall are healed up and ready to play.

[Stray]

Can't really pin yesterday's loss on anyone in particular.

It feels like if AJ doesn't get involved in the game early then he will have a very quiet day. On the few replays they were showing, he wasn't beating Haden. Or any of the receivers for that matter, they were all covered well. On the few occasions that we could hit a play protection broke down or Dalton missed the throw.

The offensive line couldn't get any push all game long. On that 4th down conversion we failed Green Ellis didn't even have a chance. That Mingo guy outplayed our line all by himself. Then the bad snap that killed a drive that was actually moving.

Defense didn't play terrible, but our defensive line needs to be amazing with the talent we have there. They've shown glimpses but they haven't been consistent so far this year. If they're gonna have 3 step drops and throw short passes how about getting your hands up and batting some passes down? And the Browns running game is terrible or we woulda been torched on the ground. Their offensive line was pushing us 3-4 yards off of the line all game long. I can't blame the secondary as much since we were missing some of our best players there.

I didn't think Marvin had them ready to play, and I didn't think Gruden called a particularly good game. He didn't adapt whatsoever, and he was predictable enough that the Browns basically knew what was coming in the 2nd half.

The Browns defense is really really good, but we made it easy for them yesterday.

[Sea Ray]

Its not a bad loss, its not going to define their season. Its a game they should have won but didn't. Now the task gets tougher facing a Patriots team that is finding ways to get things done. Hopefully Nelson and Hall are healed up and ready to play.

Well, they should have won it IF they're as good as we thought. Looks like they're not. At least not now. They weren't good enough to win yesterday. They lost at Cleveland last yr and still went to the playoffs. But we thought we were better this year. I guess not...

[GAC]

I'll ask this again: Has an NFL head coach ever been with the same franchise as long as ML has been with the Bengals, without winning a playoff game?

Is that you brother? LMAO

[my brother continually echoes this sentiment]

[GAC]

Now the task gets tougher facing a Patriots team that is finding ways to get things done.

You then have to travel to Buffalo and then Detroit.

[New York Red]

Is that you brother? LMAO

[my brother continually echoes this sentiment]
Haha ... funny stuff. It's a serious question I've asked on different sites. Haven't gotten an answer yet and I'm not interested enough to take the time to look it up. The Bengals have been better during ML's 11 years than they were the previous 11, but still, it's a long time for one coach to be in the same place without winning at least one playoff game.

I'm too big a Bengals diehard to wish the Browns luck :) but I will say they're getting better. They could have quit after the Richardson trade, but instead they took it up a notch. That says a lot about their character and about the coaching staff as well. And that is one tough defense they're putting together.

[New York Red]

You then have to travel to Buffalo and then Detroit.
The Bengals schedule is a monster.

[New York Red]

If you're keeping score at home, the Steelers are now 2-9 in their last 11 games. :D

[GAC]

The Bengals schedule is a monster.

The schedule for the entire AFC North is. I see the Browns going 1-4 over their next 5 games, and maybe 6-10 for the season. 9-7 may win the division! LOL

[Redsfaithful]

Hard to see the Bengals being competitive this week. Looks like they'll be missing Hall, Nelson, and now Michael Johnson with a concussion.

They went into the season thin at secondary, so pretty much worst case scenario with what's happening with Leon Hall and Reggie Nelson.

[wolfboy]

Is anyone else really bummed by the fact that the Bills have scored 24 points (as of this posting) on that great Browns defense?

[GAC]

Not really. Up to this stage of the season the Bills overall offense is top 5 and no slouch. They were going to be a test for the Brown's D.

The Bills got 14 pts off of two unfortunate plays.... a PI call on Hayden that put the ball on the 1 yd line, and a rookie mistake by Mingo who didn't seal the corner, force the run inside, and allowed Spiller to get outside (54 yd TD run). It happens. They showed the defensive coach talking with Mingo afterwards on the sideline about what he did wrong. You learn from it.

You lost both starting QBs, and IMO that was the difference in this game (more so for the Bills). The Browns had Weeden, who has experience and stepped it up. While the Bills had to rely on an undrafted rookie making his first career start (Tuel).

I'm not afraid to admit that it could have been a different outcome if the Bills hadn't lost QB Manuel. I'm very impressed with this kid.

[wolfboy]

While I'm sure there's plenty of pessimism heading into Sunday's game against the Patriots, I really think the Bengals have a good shot here. Like everyone else, I'm very concerned about the injuries in the secondary; however, the weather forecast (at least at this point) calls for a lot of rain and a generally crummy environment for a passing game. I don't think a little (or a lot of) rain can shut down Brady under normal circumstances, but he's dealing with an extremely green group of receivers. I have to think it will have an effect. The weather, coupled with the team's desire to return its focus on the running game, could bode well for the Bengals. I expect a big day from the law firm as well as Bernard. If the team can come out even or on top in the turnover department, I think they have a good chance of grabbing a victory this weekend. If they win this weekend, it will have to be in that classic AFC North style: a physical, grid it out win that's won at the line of scrimmage. Time will tell.

[Bob Sheed]

This one Sunday against the Patriots won't even be close.

Bengals secondary is decimated. Patriots know it. Expect 5 WR/TE Spread until the Patriots are up by 4 TDs, then lots of clock killing and commercials.

I'm a Bengals fan but there is no way on Earth I am watching this one. Almost anything would be a better use of time and potential frustration.

The only thing worse than watching it on TV, would be to be down there among the drunkards and fair-weather Patriots fans.

Patriots 44
Bengals 13

[KoryMac5]

Bengals need to keep it close and work the clock with ground and pound. Brady's no huddle needs to be off the field as much as possible. Wolfork is out and he is the heart and soul of the defense so we should be able to eat clock. Would love to see Dalton step up after a full week of fire. Should be close, I am calling Bengals 28-Pats 24.

[bucksfan2]

I think it depends on how the DLine plays. If they are able to get pressure the Bengals should win. A banged up secondary has a pretty quick fix, the DLine getting to the QB.

[Redsfaithful]

Looks like Leon Hall may be back, which would be pretty huge.

Going to come down to whether they can hit Brady, if he stays upright they'll lose badly. They may lose anyway, but they have no chance if the defensive line doesn't play well.

[Ohayou]

All these posts are just a rehash of everything that was said in Week 3. :rolleyes:

[Stray]

Don't understand the play calling on offense so far. Why not give Andy some easy throws and AJ some easy catches to get them in a rhythm? Instead we run until we have to throw and go empty? I don't get it.

[OldRightHander]

I'm liking these last few throws to the tight ends.

[Hoosier Red]

After the first possession, Lap said the idea was to force the Pats to crowd the line of scrimmage. Didin't work on second possession, obviously, but working on this one so far.

[MWM]

That was one ugly INT.

[Stray]

First int he's ever thrown in the redzone. Just a dumb decision....shoulda thrown it away.

[The Operator]

That was one ugly INT.Yep. No excuse for not throwing it away there.

[RiverRat13]

Frustrating to watch game after game where the Bengals are clearly the better team except for the most important position.

Defense is playing great.

[The Operator]

Boy this offense looks terrible today, other than one drive which Dalton ended up giving away.

Defense is gonna be worn out.

[Stray]

2 penalties on special teams already.

[Yachtzee]

Boy this offense looks terrible today, other than one drive which Dalton ended up giving away.

Defense is gonna be worn out.

The play calling isn't exactly fooling anyone.

[The Operator]

And now a horse-collar on Dunlap. Come on guys.

[Stray]

Gruden has a tendency to ignore Green at times. Call a WR screen to him or something, he's our best player on offense and we don't use him enough. There are ways to get him the ball and into the game.

What ends up usually happening is Dalton will finally start forcing it to him in the 2nd half until something bad happens.

[The Operator]

And Dunlap makes up for it by forcing a fumble!! That was huge.

[The Operator]

The play calling isn't exactly fooling anyone.Yea, they didn't even try a pass on their first drive.

[Stray]

Our entire line just stopped blocking on that play? Lets not call that one again.

[RiverRat13]

A little tired of the coverage this week and during the game constantly talking about who is out for the Pats yet glossing over the Bengals are missing two marquee defensive players in Johnson and Hall.

[OldRightHander]

A little tired of the coverage this week and during the game constantly talking about who is out for the Pats yet glossing over the Bengals are missing two marquee defensive players in Johnson and Hall.

There was one brief mention.

[Yachtzee]

So my guess is that the Bengals have just given the Pats a shot to tie it up.

[The Operator]

Great job offense. Couldn't even keep the ball for 20 seconds and now The Patriots get another shot at scoring before the half.

[Yachtzee]

Just all around poor decisions on offense. Gruden needs to apologize to the Defense.

[The Operator]

If The Bengals lose this game it's 100% on the offense's shoulders.

What a pathetic job they've done today.

[RiverRat13]

Running it three times shows a complete lack of trust in Dalton. Not sure that I blame them.

[Stray]

Just all around poor decisions on offense. Gruden needs to apologize to the Defense.

Not putting it all on him, but Gruden has been very predictable in the past two games. Play action on 2nd down would have been a better decision on that last drive imo.

[Stray]

Running it three times shows a complete lack of trust in Dalton. Not sure that I blame them.

One terrible mistake, but he's been sharp today for the most part. With our tight ends we should never have to just run the ball 3 straight times to attempt to run the clock out.

[Yachtzee]

One terrible mistake, but he's been sharp today for the most part. With our tight ends we should never have to just run the ball 3 straight times to attempt to run the clock out.

No kidding. Running up the middle 3 times deep in you're territory when the other team has 3 time outs is just asking for at least a field goal. I get that they don't want to turn the ball over, but at least try for a first down.

[KoryMac5]

I think time may be running out on the Dalton era.

[Stray]

Dunlap has been great today

[Ohayou]

Nice play by Burfict.

[sonny]

Eifert should get more looks. Kid looks good

[Ohayou]

When Dalton overthrows it, boy does he ever.

[KoryMac5]

Dunlap has been great today

Yeah I think the Bengals kept the right defensive end. Nothing against Johnson great kid and steady player, but Dunlap has a high ceiling.

[Stray]

Green gave up on that route. Not sure what's going on but he hasn't seemed like himself this year.

[Ohayou]

Still can't believe we got Gilberry for next to nothing.

[Stray]

Offsides but we got to Brady. Keep hitting him and it gets in his head.

[OldRightHander]

Explosive run by Bernard there. He needs to see more of the ball.

[KoryMac5]

Nice throw by Dalton followed by a good burst by Gio. I wish they would keep it rolling and go some no huddle. This team needs to play fast.

[Stray]

Huge throw followed by a big run. Nice!

[The Operator]

I like this Bernard guy. He's got that explosive 2nd level that can get you huge chunks of yardage.

[KoryMac5]

Need the TD here!

[Ohayou]

Peko in?

[KoryMac5]

Bernard up and over kid has hops let him in there.

[Stray]

Wait, what? Stop the game and then restart with 6 seconds on playclock?

[KoryMac5]

And this is why folks on the D line should not play offense.

[Dom Heffner]

Marvin's thinking field goal....will be up "two scores" lol...

[The Operator]

Finally a touchdown!!

[Stray]

Peko makes amends. When he hit the line it moved backwards about 2 yards.

[KoryMac5]

Lawfirm may not have any burst but man when he gets a sniff of the end zone he will move a pile.

[The Operator]

And now the D is gonna give it right back. Sounds about right.

[Stray]

How many TOs have we used on defense this year? Geez

[The Operator]

Already down to their last timeout, hope that doesn't come back to burn them.

[The Operator]

Good work to hold 'em to a field goal there, but it's once again a single score game.

[KoryMac5]

They have not covered Eifert or Gresham all day. Hopefully Gruden realizes that.

[OldRightHander]

That was a huge stand there.

[Stray]

Please don't call three straight running plays. We need another score to win.

[The Operator]

LOL and now they have no timeouts. Classic Marvin.

[RiverRat13]

LOL and now they have no timeouts. Classic Marvin.

No kidding.

[Dom Heffner]

LOL and now they have no timeouts. Classic Marvin.

It's a real problem....

[Ohayou]

Huuuge.

Failure.

[The Operator]

HUGE first down there. Bernard's got such a bright future.

[The Operator]

And now they fumble it right back to The Patriots.

[RiverRat13]

About to say go Lawfirm the rest of the way but Gio has to hold on to it.

[Stray]

Gio!

[Stray]

Gio has had a really good game but fumbles ugh.

[RiverRat13]

One first down does it. C'mon Oline!

[Yachtzee]

Huge play on D. Incredible.

[The Operator]

Wow, this defense is pitching one heck of a game. Absolutely incredible job picking up your offense there.

[OldRightHander]

Biggest sack of the game there. HUGE.

[The Operator]

Three straight running plays and no first down. Great work, offense. Nice play calling Gruden.

[RiverRat13]

Three straight running plays and no first down. Great work, offense. Nice play calling Gruden.

There's no way any team without an elite QB throws it there in that weather.

[Ohayou]

Nice punt by Huber.

[Stray]

In the rain up 7 I don't mind it as much as the first half. I do think it's asking for overtime to give Brady the ball back like that, but our D has been great today. Need one more stop.

[Yachtzee]

Three straight running plays and no first down. Great work, offense. Nice play calling Gruden.

Would have liked to see Gio get the ball there. Fumble aside, he's done a much better job of getting yards.

[Ohayou]

Wow, Crocker.

[The Operator]

And Crocker gives away a first down. That is inexcusable.

[Stray]

Rain harder

[The Operator]

Roughing the passer on that? Come on.

[The Operator]

Interception! That should do it.

[Stray]

I hate that call.

[Dom Heffner]

Pick!

[OldRightHander]

Bad penalty there.

[Yachtzee]

Wow. Bad play followed by great play. Great job D.

[OldRightHander]

Wow, what a pick.

[Ohayou]

This one Sunday against the Patriots won't even be close.

Bengals secondary is decimated. Patriots know it. Expect 5 WR/TE Spread until the Patriots are up by 4 TDs, then lots of clock killing and commercials.

I'm a Bengals fan but there is no way on Earth I am watching this one. Almost anything would be a better use of time and potential frustration.

The only thing worse than watching it on TV, would be to be down there among the drunkards and fair-weather Patriots fans.

Patriots 44
Bengals 13

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/no-no-no.gif

[Stray]

Mother nature hooked us up today.

[RiverRat13]

Incredible defensive effort. Just amazing. Easily the best Bengals D in my lifetime.

[Stray]

Yeah our defense was amazing today. Even better than the Packers game.

Gutty effort all around. I thought Dalton played much better than last week, and I'm still troubled how little Green is involved in our offense, but we did enough.

[UKFlounder]

So they beat Green Bay and New England (even the win over Pitt is good for this franchise) but lose to Cleveland?

I'm glad I don't wager any funds on this ( or any) sport :)

[KoryMac5]

How Zimmer doesn't have a head coaching job is beyond me! I love that he is here with us though.

[Yachtzee]

Great job by the D and the rain to beat the undefeated Pats. Come on Miami.

[Yachtzee]

So they beat Green Bay and New England (even the win over Pitt is good for this franchise) but lose to Cleveland?

I'm glad I don't wager any funds on this ( or any) sport :)

Never understimate an AFC North opponent on the road. Those games are always tough, regardless of the win-loss record of the teams.

[Brutus]

I think time may be running out on the Dalton era.

I'm surprised, or maybe I'm not, that no one has stepped up and admitted Andy Dalton played wonderfully in the second half. Today showed it is absolutely insane to give up on Andy Dalton. He might not be an elite QB, but he's still a very good quarterback that is capable of getting it done against the league's best.

Kudos to Dalton's play today since people will be reluctant to give it.

[RiverRat13]

Great job by the D and the rain to beat the undefeated Pats. Come on Miami.

I'll never understand why a team would spike the ball with a whole minute left on the clock. That decision and then the sack afterwards sunk them.

[KoryMac5]

Andy didn't play a good first half so no credit was given. However a huge point remains this team is having trouble scoring pts and the weight of that issue has to be carried by Jay and Andy.

[wolfboy]

Andy didn't play a good first half so no credit was given. However a huge point remains this team is having trouble scoring pts and the weight of that issue has to be carried by Jay and Andy.

Not sure if you caught it, but Tom Brady had problems scoring points too.

[Stray]

Andy didn't play a good first half so no credit was given. However a huge point remains this team is having trouble scoring pts and the weight of that issue has to be carried by Jay and Andy.

He was like 10/12 and under a lot of pressure. The int was really bad, but he played a solid game. Not scoring more points falls on the offense as a whole imo.

[Brutus]

20 of 27 with 212 yards against an undefeated Super Bowl contender, and folks are still trying to criticize the guy.

[RiverRat13]

I'm surprised, or maybe I'm not, that no one has stepped up and admitted Andy Dalton played wonderfully in the second half. Today showed it is absolutely insane to give up on Andy Dalton. He might not be an elite QB, but he's still a very good quarterback that is capable of getting it done against the league's best.

Kudos to Dalton's play today since people will be reluctant to give it.

Have anything statistically to back that up?

[Roy Tucker]

That absolute downpour came at a perfect time.

Zimmer must be a really lousy interview because I can't imagine why he hasn't gotten a head coach slot. Bengals defense was great today.

[Oxilon]

Dalton's ability to throw medium and deep balls is worrisome. I feel most of his throws are to check down receivers. And when he does go deep, it shows his physical limitations.

[cincrazy]

20 of 27 with 212 yards against an undefeated Super Bowl contender, and folks are still trying to criticize the guy.

The Patriots aren't exactly a juggernaut, and that stat line isn't all that impressive. He didn't get the ball into the endzone. It isn't ALL his problem, and he's not a bad QB per se, but his weaknesses can be easily exploited by good football teams. Hence his struggles against Pitt and Baltimore in his career.

[Brutus]

Have anything statistically to back that up?

I've posted that kind of statistical evidence before in this thread. People have their mind made up and don't care to hear about facts. They just carry on with their own faulty perceptions.

Not worth digging it up again.

[RiverRat13]

I've posted that kind of statistical evidence before in this thread.

I seriously doubt you've posted any statistical evidence showing Andy Dalton is a "very good quarterback", unless your definition of very good means he's one of the top 20 QBs in the NFL.

[Brutus]

I seriously doubt you've posted any statistical evidence showing Andy Dalton is a "very good quarterback", unless your definition of very good means he's one of the top 20 QBs in the NFL.

Thank you for proving my point.

Clearly you have your mind made up, stats be damned.

[Brutus]

The Patriots aren't exactly a juggernaut, and that stat line isn't all that impressive. He didn't get the ball into the endzone. It isn't ALL his problem, and he's not a bad QB per se, but his weaknesses can be easily exploited by good football teams. Hence his struggles against Pitt and Baltimore in his career.

Good grief, the Patriots came into the game allowing 14 points a game and had given up just five offensive touchdowns in four games. They were undefeated for a reason.

It is amazing at how difficult it is for people to say those three simple words:

"he played well."

or

"give him credit."

It's amazing how stubborn people can be. It's OK to admit it rather than trying to find something negative to say everytime someone compliments him.

[RiverRat13]

Thank you for proving my point.

Clearly you have your mind made up, stats be damned.

QBR:

'11: 20th in the league
'12: 22nd in the league
'13: 16th in the league.

Football Outsider's DYAR:

'11: 12th in the league
'12: 20th in the league
'13: 24th in the league (will go up after today)

Advancednflstats.com's Win Probability Added:

'11: 25th in the league
'12: 30th in the league
'13: 16th in the league

And even though it is the RBI/BA of QB metrics, I'll throw out Passer Rating:

'11: 20th in the league
'12: 13th in the league
'13: 21st in the league

Those enough stats for you?

[Benihana]

Andy Dalton is a mediocre QB. The Bengals had a huge win today. With a better QB and better coaching (other than Zimmer) this team would be a legitimate Super Bowl threat.

Maybe they still are anyway. When you have a front four that good, anything is possible. Just ask the '08 Giants.

[Sea Ray]

I'm thrilled with the win today and all teams make errors but do you realize that we had 4 blatant mistakes where we were almost trying to hand victory to the Pats after we'd outplayed them so?

Consider:

1) Peko starts about 2 secs too soon on 2nd and goal from the half yardline. Such a mistake is often times a drive killer

2) We're dominating the line of scrimmage and doing serious damage to the clock and the only thing that can derail us is a fumble and that's exactly what Gio does

3) It's 4th down and the Pats are through unless they get a first. It's raining like a monsoon. Brady can't grip the ball well enough to even throw it ten yds, let alone get a first and Crocker is blatantly off sides. How does that happen?

4) Once again, the rain is making it nearly impossible to complete a pass and we rough Brady

NE didn't make any of those kinds of errors yet still lost by a TD. Dalton and his issues aside, do you realize how good we'd be if not for dumb play?

[Sea Ray]

Dalton's ability to throw medium and deep balls is worrisome. I feel most of his throws are to check down receivers. And when he does go deep, it shows his physical limitations.

Not top defend Dalton, but seriously, that's today's NFL. Look at guys like Peyton and even Brady aside from today. Their bread and butter are dumpoffs to their TEs and RBs and then they hit the occasional deep ball. Brady hasn't even had a deep threat since Randy Moss left

[Yachtzee]

I'm thrilled with the win today and all teams make errors but do you realize that we had 4 blatant mistakes where we were almost trying to hand victory to the Pats after we'd outplayed them so?

Consider:

1) Peko starts about 2 secs too soon on 2nd and goal from the half yardline. Such a mistake is often times a drive killer

2) We're dominating the line of scrimmage and doing serious damage to the clock and the only thing that can derail us is a fumble and that's exactly what Gio does

3) It's 4th down and the Pats are through unless they get a first. It's raining like a monsoon. Brady can't grip the ball well enough to even throw it ten yds, let alone get a first and Crocker is blatantly off sides. How does that happen?

4) Once again, the rain is making it nearly impossible to complete a pass and we rough Brady

NE didn't make any of those kinds of errors yet still lost by a TD. Dalton and his issues aside, do you realize how good we'd be if not for dumb play?

Three notes:

1. Pats 0 Penalties? Saw them holding quite a bit but they never get called for it.

2. Gio's fumble was caused by a helmet hitting the ball. Pretty tough to hold onto it when that happens. I don't put that one on him. It was just a good play on D. I'd view it differently if he'd gotten stripped or just lost it.

3. The roughing the passer call was a soft call.

Peko's mistake, although dumb, had little impact. Crocker's mistake was the one I felt could have doomed them.

[MWM]

It's amazing how stubborn people can be.

Or maybe people just disagree with your assessment.

[Brutus]

QBR:

'11: 20th in the league
'12: 22nd in the league
'13: 16th in the league.

Football Outsider's DYAR:

'11: 12th in the league
'12: 20th in the league
'13: 24th in the league (will go up after today)

Advancednflstats.com's Win Probability Added:

'11: 25th in the league
'12: 30th in the league
'13: 16th in the league

And even though it is the RBI/BA of QB metrics, I'll throw out Passer Rating:

'11: 20th in the league
'12: 13th in the league
'13: 21st in the league

Those enough stats for you?

That is absolutely faulty logic. You have it completely backwards... QBR is too much like RBIs because it penalties (or rewards) quarterbacks solely based on team context. Unlike QBR, passer rating is utterly and totally independent of situation or team context. That said, passer rating is something of an arbitrary formula that sounded good when it was made and hasn't really ever been stacked up against anything worthwhile. But it does have merit.

Studies have shown that passer rating alone predicts the winner of NFL games in about 80 percent of all games. Here is a great summation of the stat:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/kerry_byrne/08/03/defending-qb-rating/index.html

QBR is a stat that was compiled to try and please the sabermetric crowd in football... except that it's deeply flawed.

Here is a good article that shreds the QBR stat:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/espns-total-qbr-stat-makes-as-much-sense-to-aaron-rodgers-as-it-does-to-me?urn=nfl,wp9534

[Brutus]

Or maybe people just disagree with your assessment.

Andy Dalton, in his first two seasons in the league, led the Bengals to a playoff appearance. Check out how many quarterbacks have done that in franchise history, let alone their first two in the league, and get back to me. And barring something drastic, he's likely to be there a third straight time in his first three NFL seasons.

It's absolutely absurd at how many people complain about this franchise, especially given its history, and when the Bengals get a solid young quarterback in there that is going to wind up leading the team to three straight playoff appearances, that's not good enough and people are still complaining because he's not a superstar.

[Yachtzee]

I almost think Dalton is the flipside of Carson Palmer. Palmer has all the talent in the world, but constantly makes poor decisions when faced with adversity. It seemed like whenever he was called on to make the game winning drive, he'd fall apart or throw an interception. Meanwhile, Andy Dalton can be ineffective at times, but can usually be good enough to get enough points on the board to win more than lose. Today was the first time he's thrown an interception in the red zone. That's saying something.

I'd say what I like about Dalton is that he's out there trying all the time, which to me has been a nice change from Palmer, who seemed to fold up his tent when things weren't going his way. So for now I appreciate him for what he is and don't harp on him for what he isn't.

[Brutus]

Andy Dalton is a mediocre QB.

Except he's not


With a better QB and better coaching (other than Zimmer) this team would be a legitimate Super Bowl threat.

They already are


Maybe they still are anyway. When you have a front four that good, anything is possible. Just ask the '08 Giants.

Trent Dilfer, Joe Flacco, Brad Johnson all won Super Bowls. Ben Roethlisberger and Eli Manning also won Super Bowls with statistically worse seasons than Andy Dalton is having (in terms of passer rating).

You don't need a superstar to win a title. You need a decent quarterback with offensive weapons, a good line and a great defense. Check, check, check and check.

[dougdirt]

Except he's not

Can't agree here. I just can't. I don't care who else won super bowls with whatever other teams, Andy Dalton isn't anything more than a mediocre quarterback.

[dougdirt]

I'm surprised, or maybe I'm not, that no one has stepped up and admitted Andy Dalton played wonderfully in the second half. Today showed it is absolutely insane to give up on Andy Dalton. He might not be an elite QB, but he's still a very good quarterback that is capable of getting it done against the league's best.


Wonderful second half? Getting it done against the leagues best? I know the weather sucked today.... but he hasn't had a touchdown pass in how many quarters with two very good tight ends and an elite wide receiver?

The Bengals beat the Patriots today. Andy Dalton had no touchdowns and threw a pick. The Bengals rushed for nearly as many yards as Tom Brady threw for.

[dougdirt]

Andy Dalton, in his first two seasons in the league, led the Bengals to a playoff appearance. Check out how many quarterbacks have done that in franchise history, let alone their first two in the league, and get back to me. And barring something drastic, he's likely to be there a third straight time in his first three NFL seasons.

It's absolutely absurd at how many people complain about this franchise, especially given its history, and when the Bengals get a solid young quarterback in there that is going to wind up leading the team to three straight playoff appearances, that's not good enough and people are still complaining because he's not a superstar.

The list doesn't tell me much. First off, most rookies don't start at quarterback in the NFL, so even the greats wind up missing a chance to even try. Then you think about the teams desperate enough to try a rookie quarterback, they usually aren't any good. Dalton walked into one of the best defenses in the NFL, an advantage hardly any rookie quarterback is ever going to get. That he led them to the playoffs twice is great, but it is just like Dusty Baker... some people want to give him the credit. Some of us want to look at all that he had to work with and wonder how didn't he do better?

[RiverRat13]

Andy Dalton, in his first two seasons in the league, led the Bengals to a playoff appearance. Check out how many quarterbacks have done that in franchise history, let alone their first two in the league, and get back to me. And barring something drastic, he's likely to be there a third straight time in his first three NFL seasons.

It's absolutely absurd at how many people complain about this franchise, especially given its history, and when the Bengals get a solid young quarterback in there that is going to wind up leading the team to three straight playoff appearances, that's not good enough and people are still complaining because he's not a superstar.

So you knock metrics I present as "team-dependent" but your sole evidence that Dalton is "very good" is his playoff appearances, which couldn't be more team-dependent?

After his rookie year I was optimistic he'd be a good quarterback. Now I'm only hopeful he can become one. If he could bottle his performance against the Bears and play like the most weeks he'd be a very good quarterback. But he makes way too many mistakes and is too inconsistent.

As far as the Carson Palmer comparison goes, had the Bengals had this kind of defense during Carson's prime ('04-'07) I believe they'd have multiple playoff wins.

[HotCorner]

Tom Brady 18-38 197 yds 0 TD 1 Int
Andy Dalton 20-27 212 yds 0 TD 1 Int

Dalton outplayed Brady today like he did against Rodgers. I'm not saying he's better than either of these QB's but he hasn't been outplayed/outclassed when competing against them.

[New York Red]

Bills just announced they've grabbed Thad Lewis(?) off their practice squad and he will start Sunday vs the Bengals.

[New York Red]

Tom Brady 18-38 197 yds 0 TD 1 Int
Andy Dalton 20-27 212 yds 0 TD 1 Int

Dalton outplayed Brady today like he did against Rodgers. I'm not saying he's better than either of these QB's but he hasn't been outplayed/outclassed when competing against them.
I wasn't sold on Dalton yet before the season started, but there's no way anyone can complain about the year he's having thus far. My only concern is he doesn't throw down field often enough. He looks for his checkdowns too quickly, which is making AJ Green a non-factor. That can't continue.

[kaldaniels]

So what is mediocre? I assume there are more than 1 mediocre starting QB in the league.

So let's say mediocre is the 14-18 best QB in the league.

Can a case be made Dalton is a top 13 QB?

[New York Red]

Andy Dalton has a 22-15 record after his first 37 starts in the NFL. For comparison's sake:

Aaron Rodgers: 20-17
Peyton Manning: 19-18
Eli Manning: 19-18

[Oxilon]

Andy Dalton has a 22-15 record after his first 37 starts in the NFL. For comparison's sake:

Aaron Rodgers: 20-17
Peyton Manning: 19-18
Eli Manning: 19-18

And neither had the Bengals defense their first 37 starts either.

[New York Red]

So what is mediocre? I assume there are more than 1 mediocre starting QB in the league.

So let's say mediocre is the 14-18 best QB in the league.

Can a case be made Dalton is a top 13 QB?
He currently ranks 19th in QBR (he was 9th after Week Three).

Being 20th in YPA, 21st in TDs and a 1:1 TD/INT ratio are the big problems.

[New York Red]

And neither had the Bengals defense their first 37 starts either.
Which teams had the better WR's, TE's, RB's, O-linemen, special teams, coaching, etc? There's a lot of ways to play that game. I just posted the records of each QB. You can work them any way you want, but they are what they are.

[medford]

And neither had the Bengals defense their first 37 starts either.

That's a little overstated. Look I like the Bengals defense, I love Zimmer and a few players w/n the Bengals defense, but lets not act like this is the 85 Bears or 20?? Ravens defense. Geno is great, but wasn't the all NFL player in Dalton's first season. Dunlap has been hurt at times, Johnson didn't really come into his own until last season, the linebackers have been sub part for most of Andy's first 2 seasons (I'd say the 2nd half of last year they started playing better than average w/ Burfict's development and Ray's development) and the safety spot has been patchworked together more times than I can count. How many times have they're brought Crocker back off the couch to play significant minutes?

Andy is sort of the Bronson Arroyo of QBs. He doesn't woy you with arm strength, he blows up a times, but at the end of the season, he puts up slighty better than average numbers, not quite elite, but far from mediocre.

[New York Red]

That's a little overstated. Look I like the Bengals defense, I love Zimmer and a few players w/n the Bengals defense, but lets not act like this is the 85 Bears or 20?? Ravens defense. Geno is great, but wasn't the all NFL player in Dalton's first season. Dunlap has been hurt at times, Johnson didn't really come into his own until last season, the linebackers have been sub part for most of Andy's first 2 seasons (I'd say the 2nd half of last year they started playing better than average w/ Burfict's development and Ray's development) and the safety spot has been patchworked together more times than I can count. How many times have they're brought Crocker back off the couch to play significant minutes?

Andy is sort of the Bronson Arroyo of QBs. He doesn't woy you with arm strength, he blows up a times, but at the end of the season, he puts up slighty better than average numbers, not quite elite, but far from mediocre.
Great post.

[Stray]

Another guy who is having a great year is Terrence Newman. I was kinda worried about our CBs going into the year, but man he has not given up much of anything this year.

[Sea Ray]

Three notes:

1. Pats 0 Penalties? Saw them holding quite a bit but they never get called for it.

2. Gio's fumble was caused by a helmet hitting the ball. Pretty tough to hold onto it when that happens. I don't put that one on him. It was just a good play on D. I'd view it differently if he'd gotten stripped or just lost it.

3. The roughing the passer call was a soft call.

Peko's mistake, although dumb, had little impact. Crocker's mistake was the one I felt could have doomed them.

Any of those could have doomed them. Luckily none of those mistakes had much impact, thanks to the defense. Give the O-line credit for bailing out Peko. I didn't realize that NE had no penalties but I can't recall them being called for one. It does illuminate my point. The Bengals made a lot more mistakes but still won the game due to their superior talent. I'd like to see their execution approach their talent

[Sea Ray]

Another guy who is having a great year is Terrence Newman. I was kinda worried about our CBs going into the year, but man he has not given up much of anything this year.

Good point. Who would have thought that we'd hold Brady to less than 50% passing and no TDs w/o MJ and (by far) our best CB in Hall? A lot of the credit goes to Newman for stepping up

[Hillsdale87]

Andy Dalton, in his first two seasons in the league, led the Bengals to a playoff appearance. Check out how many quarterbacks have done that in franchise history, let alone their first two in the league, and get back to me.

Mark Sanchez did the same thing...

Dalton is not a bad quarterback. But it's hard to say he is any better than a mediocre quarterback. Mediocre is middle of the pack, and I don't think he could be listed above 15 other QBs. If you think he can, I'd be interested to see your QB rankings.

I like Dalton. I'd like to see more of the Dalton that we saw against the Bears. He looked good in that game and has looked bad or at least very inconsistent since. His accuracy stats from yesterday were good, but they don't tell the whole story. He really only made one good throw - the 3rd and 15 pass to Marvin Jones - and that was truly a great clutch pass. But other than that, he didn't make any plays. With the weapons that Dalton has, he needs to be making more plays and driving the ball down the field more. AJ Green is being wasted. Dalton also looked bad in the pocket, taking a few sacks where he should have been able to get rid of the ball.

[Hillsdale87]

Tom Brady 18-38 197 yds 0 TD 1 Int
Andy Dalton 20-27 212 yds 0 TD 1 Int

Dalton outplayed Brady today like he did against Rodgers. I'm not saying he's better than either of these QB's but he hasn't been outplayed/outclassed when competing against them.

Dalton outplayed Brady, and I'm glad they got the win, but I think this speaks more to Brady than it does to Dalton. Brady looked bad yesterday. Part of that is on the defense, and they did a great job getting pressure. But Brady missed quite a few open receivers. He has looked off all year. It will be interesting to see if he is able to get into a rhythm once Gronk comes back

[Sea Ray]

Dalton outplayed Brady, and I'm glad they got the win, but I think this speaks more to Brady than it does to Dalton. Brady looked bad yesterday. Part of that is on the defense, and they did a great job getting pressure. But Brady missed quite a few open receivers. He has looked off all year. It will be interesting to see if he is able to get into a rhythm once Gronk comes back

I think Brady's biggest problem is his weapons. He doesn't have many. Dalton has an embarrassment of riches at his disposal

[wolfboy]

Mark Sanchez did the same thing...

Dalton is not a bad quarterback. But it's hard to say he is any better than a mediocre quarterback. Mediocre is middle of the pack, and I don't think he could be listed above 15 other QBs. If you think he can, I'd be interested to see your QB rankings.

I like Dalton. I'd like to see more of the Dalton that we saw against the Bears. He looked good in that game and has looked bad or at least very inconsistent since. His accuracy stats from yesterday were good, but they don't tell the whole story. He really only made one good throw - the 3rd and 15 pass to Marvin Jones - and that was truly a great clutch pass. But other than that, he didn't make any plays. With the weapons that Dalton has, he needs to be making more plays and driving the ball down the field more. AJ Green is being wasted. Dalton also looked bad in the pocket, taking a few sacks where he should have been able to get rid of the ball.

This is really one of the biggest problems I've had with this offense and, quite frankly, I'm not sure who should get the blame. He simply should not be holding on to the ball for as long as he does in a West Coast offense. I'm not smart enough to tell you whether that falls on Dalton or Gruden, but it is unquestionably a problem. I suspect it falls on Dalton given that the guy worked exclusively out of the spread in college. Regardless of where the blame falls, it is clear that Dalton simply cannot operate in the pocket under pressure. They need to figure out a way for him to get rid of the ball and get rid of it fast.

[Hillsdale87]

I think Brady's biggest problem is his weapons. He doesn't have many. Dalton has an embarrassment of riches at his disposal

Good point, although Brady is still missing passes that he would normally hit.

The strange thing about Dalton is that he is playing worse this year than last year. He had a stretch last year before Sanu got hurt where he looked really good, like he had taken a huge step up. Then they added Eifert and Gio, and he looks out of sync. I think part of it is a lack of creativity on offense - Gio needs to be utilized more out of the backfield with designed screens - but a lot of it is on Dalton missing open receivers or making bad decisions.

[Hillsdale87]

This is really one of the biggest problems I've had with this offense and, quite frankly, I'm not sure who should get the blame. He simply should not be holding on to the ball for as long as he does in a West Coast offense. I'm not smart enough to tell you whether that falls on Dalton or Gruden, but it is unquestionably a problem. I suspect it falls on Dalton given that the guy worked exclusively out of the spread in college. Regardless of where the blame falls, it is clear that Dalton simply cannot operate in the pocket under pressure. They need to figure out a way for him to get rid of the ball and get rid of it fast.

There were 2 sacks yesterday where the rush came up the middle, and Dalton should have had time to throw the ball away. He saw the rush coming but had rushers on each side, so no time to escape. He should have been able to get rid of the ball, maybe throw it at the feet of a receiver, but he froze, ducked, and took a sack.

[Sea Ray]

Good point, although Brady is still missing passes that he would normally hit.

The strange thing about Dalton is that he is playing worse this year than last year. He had a stretch last year before Sanu got hurt where he looked really good, like he had taken a huge step up. Then they added Eifert and Gio, and he looks out of sync. I think part of it is a lack of creativity on offense - Gio needs to be utilized more out of the backfield with designed screens - but a lot of it is on Dalton missing open receivers or making bad decisions.

I'm not thrilled with Dalton's play but I do think it's worth noting that he's played some excellent defenses this year. All five of our opponents have given opposing QBs fits

[wolfboy]

I'm not thrilled with Dalton's play but I do think it's worth noting that he's played some excellent defenses this year. All five of our opponents have given opposing QBs fits

Maybe not great overall (Green Bay comes to mind), but they've all had very good pass rushers.

[Redsfaithful]

2 things:

I agree with Sea Ray that they have played five good defenses (possibly with the exception of GB.) I'd like to see his body of work for the entire year.

Dalton had a 3 week stretch last year where he threw 9 TDs with 0 INT. Let's see what happens when they play a soft defense. The Bills defense has been pretty mediocre, so this will be an interesting week.

[New York Red]

Not sure where you guys are getting that we've faced five good defenses. Green Bay, Pittsburgh and Chicago rank 17th, 23rd and 26th, respectively, in PPG allowed. It looks a little better if you go by YPG, but even then we've still only played two defenses in the top 15.

[wolfboy]

Not sure where you guys are getting that we've faced five good defenses. Green Bay, Pittsburgh and Chicago rank 17th, 23rd and 26th, respectively, in PPG allowed. It looks a little better if you go by YPG, but even then we've still only played two defenses in the top 15.

I'll wait 'till the end of the year to look at rankings. Bengals defense didn't rank that high through the first handful of games last year. I knew they were a great defense.

[Sea Ray]

Not sure where you guys are getting that we've faced five good defenses. Green Bay, Pittsburgh and Chicago rank 17th, 23rd and 26th, respectively, in PPG allowed. It looks a little better if you go by YPG, but even then we've still only played two defenses in the top 15.

Is that points given up by the defense or does it include points scored by special teams and opposing team's D? That's a tough stat to use, especially this early in the year. By my eyetest, Pitt, Chicago and Cleveland are tough defenses especially against the pass. They'll give a lot of QB's problems. What is their opposing QB's passer rating? That'd be a better stat to use here

[Sea Ray]

Good news for Bengal fans everywhere:


Jones’ agent, Peter Schaffer, tells PFT that Jones was acquitted by a Hamilton County municipal court judge on one charge of misdemeanor assault stemming from an incident occurring outside a Cincinnati bar earlier this year.

Jones was accused of assaulting a woman who appeared to pour a drink on him. Surveillance video seemed to indicate that Jones retaliated by striking the woman.


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/10/08/adam-jones-found-not-guilty-on-assault-charges/

Hell of a way to spend your off days but now he can focus fulltime on football.

[MWM]

I've been back and forth on Andy Dalton. I really thought he was going to develop better than he has. I remember watching him as a rookie and consistently thinking that he doesn't look like a rookie at all. And even now there are times when he looks like a guy who could be a good starting NFL QB. But I'm starting to lean in the direction of him basically being Matt Schaub. He's going to show flashes of being good, but it will be followed by a lot of poor play. I think he could be an effective QB for one of those teams that has few other holes that just needs a QB to be just ok. I doubt he's going to be any more than that, although he could very well prove me wrong.

Here's his stat line for his last 11 games:

220-359 (61%)
2,242 yards (6.24 YPA)
9 TD / 11 INT
4 lost fumbles
33 sacks

The sacks are telling to me. The O-line is not that bad. He's not getting hit as soon as he drops back like some guys (Eli, Rodgers last year). He seems to get very fidgety when the play breaks down, even a little. He freezes up and takes sacks when he could easily throw the ball away.

[Boss-Hog]

The sacks are telling to me. The O-line is not that bad. He's not getting hit as soon as he drops back like some guys (Eli, Rodgers last year). He seems to get very fidgety when the play breaks down, even a little. He freezes up and takes sacks when he could easily throw the ball away.

I completely agree with that, and nearly two and a half years in, I'm skeptical that he's suddenly going to "learn" to feel the rush (i.e. pocket presence) when the play breaks down.

[Redsfaithful]

Extend that to his last 14 games and it looks a lot different.

I also am not a huge fan of how Gruden is calling plays this year, although it made more sense to me against NE and they still only scored 13, so who knows?

I think fans are overestimating how good the WRs are outside of AJ Green also. I thought Sanu and Jones would develop and they really haven't.

I think I come across as an unabashed Dalton fan, but I know he has serious weaknesses, I just think he's a legit NFL starter and probably good enough for a deep playoff run with the team he has right now.

He missed AJ Green by like a foot in the end zone last year against Houston. It would have been the difference in the game more than likely, and I wonder if these conversations would be any different if he had one playoff win under his belt.

[Hillsdale87]

Extend that to his last 14 games and it looks a lot different.

I also am not a huge fan of how Gruden is calling plays this year, although it made more sense to me against NE and they still only scored 13, so who knows?

I think fans are overestimating how good the WRs are outside of AJ Green also. I thought Sanu and Jones would develop and they really haven't.

I think I come across as an unabashed Dalton fan, but I know he has serious weaknesses, I just think he's a legit NFL starter and probably good enough for a deep playoff run with the team he has right now.

He missed AJ Green by like a foot in the end zone last year against Houston. It would have been the difference in the game more than likely, and I wonder if these conversations would be any different if he had one playoff win under his belt.

I think a big part of Dalton's problem with fans is how good he looked as a rookie. He showed serious promise, and there hasn't been noticeable improvement since then. I probably would have rated him 18-20 in his rookie year and now think he's probably 16-18. I agree that the other receivers aren't great, but right now he's not even using AJ Green well. That is a serious problem.

You're also right about Gruden's play calling. Dalton is throwing the ball too much, and there's not enough creativity

[MWM]

I honestly have no idea what to expect from the Bengals today. Nothing would surprise me.

[Stray]

Offense looks pretty good so far.

[OldRightHander]

Offense looks pretty good so far.

Hopefully the defense shows up soon.

[OldRightHander]

I'll call that showing up.

[Stray]

Holy Gio

[OldRightHander]

14 point swing there. Huge

[Ohayou]

That's a flag?

[RiverRat13]

That's a flag?

Both on Burfict were weak. The first one on the QB he hit Gilberry, not Lewis. And on the second one A) I'm not sure what he's supposed to do and B) I'm not sure it was even a catch.

I wonder if Burfict is starting to get a reputation and the flags will start coming quicker on him.

[Stray]

Burfict getting singled out by the refs. Two personal fouls that weren't.

[Ohayou]

Second week in a row.

[reds1869]

The guys in blue aren't on your team, Andy.

[Wonderful Monds]

Andy Dalton: Just not very good.

[Stray]

No idea what Andy saw there

[Stray]

I think we'll see our defense play a lot better in the 2nd half.

[reds1869]

Dalton can look so terrible at times and follow it up with brilliance. If he just learns to take what is there he will be ok. Otherwise he is going to be less successful version of Big Ben.

[OldRightHander]

Jones having a nice game today.

[Stray]

It'd be cool to play against the Bills defense more often.

[Reds Freak]

Huge to get out to a two-score lead early like this. Take away the Bills running game, which is their best chance to win.

[MWM]

Would love to see the Bengals totally pull away from someone.

[reds1869]

Love it! Good Dalton this time. He needs to throw over the middle more.

[MWM]

Who kidnapped Marvin Lewis? 4th and 15? Lol

[OldRightHander]

That was a gutsy call that turned out good.

[Stray]

By my count that's 39 special teams penalties on the year.

[Reds Freak]

Would love to see the Bengals totally pull away from someone.

Fat chance.

[Stray]

special teams is killing us today

[WMR]

I almost think Dalton is the flipside of Carson Palmer. Palmer has all the talent in the world, but constantly makes poor decisions when faced with adversity. It seemed like whenever he was called on to make the game winning drive, he'd fall apart or throw an interception. Meanwhile, Andy Dalton can be ineffective at times, but can usually be good enough to get enough points on the board to win more than lose. Today was the first time he's thrown an interception in the red zone. That's saying something.

I'd say what I like about Dalton is that he's out there trying all the time, which to me has been a nice change from Palmer, who seemed to fold up his tent when things weren't going his way. So for now I appreciate him for what he is and don't harp on him for what he isn't.

I wonder what the narrative on Carson Palmer would be if that Pittsburgh DT hadn't lunged at his knee in the playoffs in 2005 (same Stealers team that would go on to win the SB)?

I was at that game and the Bengals were going to kick Pittsburgh's ass that night. First play a long bomb to Chris Henry (a throw that Andy Dalton couldn't make in his wildest dreams) and boom, Carson is done. Felt like someone let the air out of the entire stadium.

Carson leads the Bengals to their first SB in franchise history and he's beloved in this city until the end of time.

[OldRightHander]

Palmer was never the same after that injury. Maybe they would have a couple championships by now.

[Reds Freak]

Hope the FG nightmare earlier doesn't come back to bite them.

[Reds Freak]

Palmer was never the same after that injury. Maybe they would have a couple championships by now.

Bengals defense was horrid back then. Would have loved to have seen that offense with this defense.

[MWM]

I sure hope this doesn't turn into a typical bengals 4th quarter.

[MWM]

So bad at playing with a lead. I love Marvin Lewis, but this is his biggest weakness, IMO.

[Stray]

So bad at playing with a lead. I love Marvin Lewis, but this is his biggest weakness, IMO.

What has Marvin done wrong?

[reds1869]

What has Marvin done wrong?

The same thing virtually every head coach does. He went super conservative with a lead. It isn't a Marvin problem, it is a NFL culture problem.

[Stray]

The same thing virtually every head coach does. He went super conservative with a lead. It isn't a Marvin problem, it is a NFL culture problem.

I'm not seeing it. We've been pretty aggressive in the 2nd half. Obviously you go conservative inside of your 5 yard line, but other than that it's been special teams mistakes.

[Reds Freak]

So bad at playing with a lead. I love Marvin Lewis, but this is his biggest weakness, IMO.

No question. Usually play to level of competition under Marvin. Although, a made chip shot FG and we'd all feel a lot safer.

[OldRightHander]

This is one of those put the game away drives. Let's see what they do with it.

[Wonderful Monds]

Bengals defense was horrid back then. Would have loved to have seen that offense with this defense.

They had a Patriots/Packers/Colts defense. It wasnt good, but it did what they needed them to. I also remember them being pretty good about creating turnovers at least.

[Reds Freak]

No BJGE on 3rd and 1?

[Reds Freak]

Total yardage is 411-230 and turnovers are even. How is this even a game?

[Wonderful Monds]

I think I might have just broken my TV.

[The Operator]

LOL. Offense can't keep the ball and then the defense goes into prevent mode and of course end up giving up a TD.

I hate the prevent defense. Hate it hate it hate it.

[MWM]

It's not about "what he did" today. It's hard to argue that the bengals don't consistently play poorly with the lead. It's been a theme in the Marvin era. I'm a supporter of Lewis, but this is his Achilles heel.

[Stray]

Newman has been great this year but ouch man. Cannot get beat over the top.

[Stray]

LOL. Offense can't keep the ball and then the defense goes into prevent mode and of course end up giving up a TD.

I hate the prevent defense. Hate it hate it hate it.

Since when is blitzing a safety and man to man prevent defense?

[The Operator]

Brilliant play-calling Mr. Gruden.

[Reds Freak]

This team has road problems. 3-0 at home, 0-2 on the road.

[The Operator]

Since when is blitzing a safety and man to man prevent defense?
Might not have been, sure seemed like they took the foot off the gas pedal though.

[Wonderful Monds]

I hope they lose. They deserve it.

[George Foster]

This team has road problems. 3-0 at home, 0-2 on the road.

How many times has this Marvin Lewis team over the years done this...I expect it..

[The Operator]

Any time people have expectations for The Bengals, they do their best to lay an egg.

[Ohayou]

I hope they lose. They deserve it.

:rolleyes:

Get out of here.

[Reds Freak]

We have to remember this is the Bengals we're watching. This is what they do. :)

[WMR]

Bengals two biggest problems:

1) Coaching, esp. Head Coach

2) QB

[Reds Freak]

Bengals two biggest problems:

1) Coaching, esp. Head Coach

2) QB

I can't believe Dalton gave up 2 fourth-quarter TDs to a practice squad QB.

[Stray]

I like how people just jump on Marvin and Dalton regardless of what the Bengals problems are lol. Dalton has been really good today. Special teams has been brutal, and our defense couldn't hold a 2 TD 4th quarter lead against a practice squad QB.

[The Operator]

I can't believe Dalton gave up 2 fourth-quarter TDs to a practice squad QB.Offense couldn't stay on the field long enough to give the defense any time to catch their breath. That's a problem.

[Reds Freak]

I don't even know the OT rules. Do both teams get a possession or is that just in the playoffs?

[Reds Freak]

Offense couldn't stay on the field long enough to give the defense any time to catch their breath. That's a problem.

That's on the line and not having BJGE in the game. They had a 3rd and 1 they couldn't convert.

[Stray]

I don't even know the OT rules. Do both teams get a possession or is that just in the playoffs?

If we score a TD on the first possession game is over. FG and they get a possession.

[The Operator]

LOL offensive pass interference.

[MWM]

That's the worst call I've ever seen. We've finally seen the call worse than the Justin Smith roughing call years ago.

[The Operator]

Gio! Man he has some moves.

[Hillsdale87]

And that's the kind of sack you can't take...

[The Operator]

And they'll put all their hopes on the defense once again.

[The Operator]

And that's the kind of sack you can't take...
No idea why he didn't throw that away.

[MWM]

I like how people just jump on Marvin and Dalton regardless of what the Bengals problems are lol. Dalton has been really good today. Special teams has been brutal, and our defense couldn't hold a 2 TD 4th quarter lead against a practice squad QB.

For me, it's not about today. It's about a consistent pattern that's been there for years now.

[Stray]

I'm so glad Marvin didn't try a long shot FG.

[The Operator]

For me, it's not about today. It's about a consistent pattern that's been there for years now.Losing to Bruce Gradkowski twice in epic fashion was fun.

[Stray]

Kinda surprised the Bills have been playing an injured Spiller so much today.

[OldRightHander]

Ok, so a FG could end it now since both teams have had the ball?

[The Operator]

Nice punt return.

[Stray]

Ok, so a FG could end it now since both teams have had the ball?

Yes, FG and we win. So I hope our offense plays it safe and just tries to get closer without taking any risks.

[OldRightHander]

Whew

[The Operator]

Kick is good!!

Boy they did their best to give this one away, but a win is a win.

[Stray]

Dalton went 26/40 337 3td/1int

Spread the ball around, too. Contributions from a lot of players on offense.

Special teams almost lost the game for us and our defense was iffy. I give Newman a pass since he hasn't been beat often this year.

[Wonderful Monds]

I'm not as happy about this win as I am relieved. They did what they were supposed to, and manage to stop beating themselves.

I guess every good team has to win a game like that.

[WMR]

For me, it's not about today. It's about a consistent pattern that's been there for years now.

Yup!

[UKFlounder]

Relieved is a great description.

It is a win, and like the Geen Bay game, it's nice that they are winning these now

[KoryMac5]

Boomer basically said this team has way too much talent on offense not to speed up the pace. I would love to see some no huddle worked into the offense as I think it would help Dalton.

[Ohayou]

Burfict is quickly becoming my favorite player on the Bengals D, perhaps the entire team even. He fights like hell out there, every game.