College Basketball 2013-14

[Boston Red]

Now that practice has started, it's time to have a general thread related to the sport. For Xavier fans, this is a season we've been waiting for all our lives. The concept of the "Catholic Conference" was floated a number of times, but I did not think it would ever actually happen. But not that it's a reality (plus Butler), I have to think it's one of the few positive outcomes of the conference realignment blitz over the last few years. Granted, if you ask the Georgetown fans who were separated from Syracuse, Louisville, UConn, Notre Dame and the like, they may not be quite as excited about this as I am.

So what to expect in '13-'14? Is it more Bluegrass domination (another championship for Kentucky or Louisville)? Or can Tobacco Road get back on track? Or is it someone else's turn? Any teams or players you are particularly excited to see play?

I can't wait for the season to start in about 6 weeks.

[WVRed]

Now that practice has started, it's time to have a general thread related to the sport. For Xavier fans, this is a season we've been waiting for all our lives. The concept of the "Catholic Conference" was floated a number of times, but I did not think it would ever actually happen. But not that it's a reality (plus Butler), I have to think it's one of the few positive outcomes of the conference realignment blitz over the last few years. Granted, if you ask the Georgetown fans who were separated from Syracuse, Louisville, UConn, Notre Dame and the like, they may not be quite as excited about this as I am.

So what to expect in '13-'14? Is it more Bluegrass domination (another championship for Kentucky or Louisville)? Or can Tobacco Road get back on track? Or is it someone else's turn? Any teams or players you are particularly excited to see play?

I can't wait for the season to start in about 6 weeks.

I really believe this will be one of the best years in college basketball. So much talent on so many levels, so many storylines.

The Champions Classic will be one for the ages with the age and experience of Michigan State taking on the youth and talent of Kentucky. Throw in Andrew Wiggins vs Jabari Parker in the Duke-Kansas finale and it will be the best collection of talent in just the first week alone.

Michigan State is the most seasoned team IMO. I really hate their style of play but Izzo's teams can usually make an impact on the Final Four with their physicality.

I'm not ready to pencil in Kentucky for the 2014 National Championship just yet. Too many unanswered questions from last season and even though there were a lot of weak points, one is still the experience factor. Can someone step up and take a leadership role? As much fame as Anthony Davis and Michael Gilchrist had two years ago, Darius Miller was the glue of that team.

Kansas will be the odds on pick of the Big 12 but this is somewhat of a rebuilding year. Like Kentucky, Kansas will be extremely young. Can Wiggins put KU on his back and carry them through March? I'm not ruling out Oklahoma State in conference play, especially with Marcus Smart coming back to Stillwater for another season.

Like Kansas, Duke has also lost a lot of key pieces to last years team and is banking on Jabari Parker among others to shoulder the load. Will Duke's lack of a post presence hurt them moving forward? No Brian Zoubek or any of the Plumlee's on the inside but a lot of guards. Will be fun to watch.

UNC is trying to get back on track and will be looking to make a statement when Kentucky comes to town in December. I think that will be a pivotal game for them to try to make a statement.

Louisville will be aiming to go back to back for the first time since Florida did it with Noah and Co. Replacing Peyton Siva and Giorgui Gieng will be tough but the Cards have a lot of depth and players coming in that can make an impact.

Out in the land that nobody stays up to watch at night, Arizona looks to be the favorite in the Pac-12. While Arizona has the bigs (Tarczewski, Ashley, and Gordon) can they get some help on the perimeter and at the point?

Which of the midmajors will be a factor? Wichita State? Gonzaga? VCU?

Who has the most to prove this season? I'll start in Texas with Rick Barnes. With DeLoss Dodd's announcing his retirement and Mack Brown's status in football in limbo, I think its a matter of time before the Longhorns decide to move in a different direction in basketball as well. Never has a program done so little with so much.

A lot of questions, but this will be IMO the best season for college basketball in a long time.

[Assembly Hall]

Right here, right now......Michigan State is my pick to win it all. And as much as it pains me to say, Michigan is better due to subtraction.

WV alluded to Texas........another one to watch is UCLA. They are another program that has done so little with so much. Curious as to how the new coach works at Pauley.

[improbus]

What a fun night. Randle looks like a young Zach Randolph who can jump. Jabari might be a young Kobe. James Young has a little James Harden. I'm in love with the Harrison twins.

But, the real story might be the rule changes/emphases. There were around 52 fouls in the UK game. I heard the term "arm bar" a ton and they finally are trying to clear up the block/charge situation. Hopefully these changes along with an infusion of talent will make this a more watchable college hoops season.

[jwertz]

Jabari Parker was nasty last night. If he plays like that all season I don't know who is going to beat Duke. I really think Michigan State has a legit shot at a title this year too. It has been a long time since there was this much talent in college hoops.

[WVRed]

Kevin Ware pulled over doing 95 in a 55 and skips on the court date.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2013/11/19/no-ncaa-violation-in-kevin-ware-situation-louisville-says/3647289/

PJ Hairston says hi.

#L1C40Over :)

[Boston Red]

One hell of an effort by Butler today.

[traderumor]

There was one Big 10 team that looked like a top 10 team last night, there was one that did not. If the Bucks start shooting the ball consistently, I don't think they will need a go-to guy, but can win with balance and depth. They have shot the ball well the last two games, last night against at least a major conference foe.

However, in College bball, it seems like the best teams out of the small conferences are now better than the worst teams in the major conferences, because that Maryland team did not have much talent (understanding their point guard is injured).

[Boston Red]

it seems like the best teams out of the small conferences are now better than the worst teams in the major conferences

That's been true for a long, long time.

[bucksfan2]

There was one Big 10 team that looked like a top 10 team last night, there was one that did not. If the Bucks start shooting the ball consistently, I don't think they will need a go-to guy, but can win with balance and depth. They have shot the ball well the last two games, last night against at least a major conference foe.

However, in College bball, it seems like the best teams out of the small conferences are now better than the worst teams in the major conferences, because that Maryland team did not have much talent (understanding their point guard is injured).

I don't know what to think of OSU this season. If they get scoring they are going to be very tough to beat. While I don't really the freedom of movement edict this season, OSU plays good defense while moving their feet, especially Craft. They a post presence in Williams who may just average 10 points this season because he learned how to shoot FT's better.

I think the success will depend on whether or not Ross can play at the level he did in the tournament last season. Can Thompson play with confidence all season long, when he does he can be scary. And what will Loving and/or Delle Valle provide?

[RedTeamGo!]

I don't know what to think of OSU this season. If they get scoring they are going to be very tough to beat. While I don't really the freedom of movement edict this season, OSU plays good defense while moving their feet, especially Craft. They a post presence in Williams who may just average 10 points this season because he learned how to shoot FT's better.

I think the success will depend on whether or not Ross can play at the level he did in the tournament last season. Can Thompson play with confidence all season long, when he does he can be scary. And what will Loving and/or Delle Valle provide?

Loving will provide the ability to knock down stand up jumpers and excellent free throw shooting. He doesn't need to hit when he drives the lane, he just needs to get hit.

Speaking of Loving, he went to my alma mater, and a friend of mine had him as a student last year. He said Loving is one of the smartest, kindest, and well rounded kids he has ever taught and he is very humble.

[traderumor]

That's been true for a long, long time.I guess at some level I'd agree with you, but I think the gap is getting wider might be my more precise observation.

[traderumor]

I don't know what to think of OSU this season. If they get scoring they are going to be very tough to beat. While I don't really the freedom of movement edict this season, OSU plays good defense while moving their feet, especially Craft. They a post presence in Williams who may just average 10 points this season because he learned how to shoot FT's better.

I think the success will depend on whether or not Ross can play at the level he did in the tournament last season. Can Thompson play with confidence all season long, when he does he can be scary. And what will Loving and/or Delle Valle provide?I think my overall take is that they are more balanced team than in past years with a stronger bench. They have some bench guys with different tools, also, so Matta should have more flexibility than he has had since the one year wonders. They are growing on me, the first few games were brutal because of the bad shooting, which was my fear for this team, but I'm feeling better about that now because they have other options when the shots aren't falling. They are a little soft on rebounding, which was the one dig to take away from last night's easy win.

[Revering4Blue]

Notre Dame leading scorer Jerian Grant has left school because of an academic issue and will not be with the Irish for the rest of the season.

Grant, a 6-5 senior guard, averaged 19 points and 6.2 assists for the Irish.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2013/12/22/jerian-grant-leaves-notre-dame/4168539/

[traderumor]

Glad the Bucks pulled that one out. Grant was a lame duck and a key player in ND nearly pulling off the upset, and arguably shouldn't have even been on the court. "We'll let him play this one last nationally televised game against the #3 team in the country, then he's done." I'm sure they just found out about his ineligibility right after the game.

[WVRed]

Chane Behanon dismissed from Louisville. Two thoughts:

1. I wouldn't be surprised if he's back at the end of the week, given its Pitino.

2. Coincidental timing given the Kentucky game and Rick's refusal to do the after game press conference.

[Boston Red]

Xavier is in first place in the Big East! I've been waiting a long time to say that.

[traderumor]

Bucks win their Big 10 opener over Purdue. I only got to follow the game via the gamecast, both teams shot poorly on 3's, but the Bucks put together a couple key ones and made their free throws down the stretch. I figure Purdue is a middling team this year, so a good road win. But boy, their outside shooting is gonna give me fits.

[redsfan1995]

Bucks win their Big 10 opener over Purdue. I only got to follow the game via the gamecast, both teams shot poorly on 3's, but the Bucks put together a couple key ones and made their free throws down the stretch. I figure Purdue is a middling team this year, so a good road win. But boy, their outside shooting is gonna give me fits.

Crazy stat Ohio State missed the same amount of two pointers as they did three pointers.

[Revering4Blue]

RIP, Johnny Orr.

[traderumor]

Crazy stat Ohio State missed the same amount of two pointers as they did three pointers.I was following it on the yahoo internet app and its driving me nuts, everyone was chucking up 3s possession after possession. Missed 23 footer, missed 24 footer, missed 23 footer. I'm kinda glad I didn't have to watch that display. They're gonna have to start paying Union Dues as Masons.

[cumberlandreds]

Chane Behanon dismissed from Louisville. Two thoughts:

1. I wouldn't be surprised if he's back at the end of the week, given its Pitino.

2. Coincidental timing given the Kentucky game and Rick's refusal to do the after game press conference.

I think he's done for good this time. But nothing would surprise me much from that bunch in Louisville. I wonder if he would have been dismissed if he had a big game against Kentucky and UL had won? I doubt it myself.

[dubc47834]

I think he's done for good this time. But nothing would surprise me much from that bunch in Louisville. I wonder if he would have been dismissed if he had a big game against Kentucky and UL had won? I doubt it myself.

I read earlier he is going to get help from John Lucas...FWIW!!!

[cumberlandreds]

I read earlier he is going to get help from John Lucas...FWIW!!!

I just saw that this morning. I'm glad he's getting help. I hope it helps him enough to be a responsible adult to where he can take care of himself and his children.

[Kingspoint]

The streak is over.

The University of Portland ended the nation's second longest streak for consecutive home losses to one team at 17. They defeated Gonzalez for the first time since 1996, thumping the Zags in a wire-to-wire victory, leading by double-digits most of the second half. I'm bummed I didn't go being only two blocks away, but I knew it was sold out. Could have found a ticket, but just got lazy.


The Citadel still holds the longest streak having lost to the Orangemen 20 straight times at home.

[Revering4Blue]

The streak is over.

The University of Portland ended the nation's second longest streak for consecutive home losses to one team at 17. They defeated Gonzalez for the first time since 1996, thumping the Zags in a wire-to-wire victory, leading by double-digits most of the second half. I'm bummed I didn't go being only two blocks away, but I knew it was sold out. Could have found a ticket, but just got lazy.


The Citadel still holds the longest streak having lost to the Orangemen 20 straight times at home.

They defeated this guy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDZBzvTDhGU

[Boston Red]

Xavier is in first place in the Big East!

Still true. First Big East road game Sunday, and it's a HUGE one.

[Kingspoint]

They defeated this guy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDZBzvTDhGU
I hate the new upgrade on the Galaxy SIII. There is no option for turning off their fill-in, so any word it doesn't recognize, and there are thousands in sports discussion, it changes the word you type unless you tap the word after finishing typing it then tap again to get back to the end of the word before proceeding to add the space. Drives me nuts.

I don't think they could beat Gonzalez. He's way too fast.

[Kingspoint]

And the Ducks lose to the Bears for the 12th straight time, while almost always having the better team. Don't know what it is with these guys.

[Revering4Blue]

And the Ducks lose to the Bears for the 12th straight time, while almost always having the better team. Don't know what it is with these guys.

Mike Montgomery is an underrated coach, IMO. I've often wondered what he could do at a school with a ton of resources, such as UCLA or Indiana.

[Kingspoint]

Mike Montgomery is an underrated coach, IMO. I've often wondered what he could do at a school with a ton of resources, such as UCLA or Indiana. Have got to agree with that.

[dubc47834]

Mike Montgomery is an underrated coach, IMO. I've often wondered what he could do at a school with a ton of resources, such as UCLA or Indiana.

Montgomery was rumored to be in the hunt for the IU job before Crean was hired. I like Crean, but I thnk Montgomery would have been a good hire also.

[bucksfan2]

Frustrated about OSU's performance over the past two games and even more frustrated at Thad's coaching. He made coaching errors in both the Iowa and Minnesota games. In the Iowa game he went with a terrible rotation with OSU up 8 in the 2nd half. Iowa proceeded to go on a big run and pull away late. Then against Minnesota he spent the better half of 5-8 minutes with a lineup on the court that was maddening. He went small putting Loving in there instead of Williams. But then he kept that same lineup in the game when Minnesota started pounding it inside and OSU couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.

I knew that OSU was going to struggle offensively this season. I knew their #3 ranking was a little elevated but there is no excuse for losing to Iowa at home and Minnesota on the road back to back. There is no excuse for Thad keeping Lenzell Smith on the court when he is cold and making bad decisions. There is no excuse for not having a guy on the roster not named Ross who can hit an outside shot. Thad needs to coach better, mix and match lineups, get Smith out when he is chucking up bad shots and turning ball over. Get Williams into the game when they are getting dominated in the post.

[traderumor]

Frustrated about OSU's performance over the past two games and even more frustrated at Thad's coaching. He made coaching errors in both the Iowa and Minnesota games. In the Iowa game he went with a terrible rotation with OSU up 8 in the 2nd half. Iowa proceeded to go on a big run and pull away late. Then against Minnesota he spent the better half of 5-8 minutes with a lineup on the court that was maddening. He went small putting Loving in there instead of Williams. But then he kept that same lineup in the game when Minnesota started pounding it inside and OSU couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.

I knew that OSU was going to struggle offensively this season. I knew their #3 ranking was a little elevated but there is no excuse for losing to Iowa at home and Minnesota on the road back to back. There is no excuse for Thad keeping Lenzell Smith on the court when he is cold and making bad decisions. There is no excuse for not having a guy on the roster not named Ross who can hit an outside shot. Thad needs to coach better, mix and match lineups, get Smith out when he is chucking up bad shots and turning ball over. Get Williams into the game when they are getting dominated in the post.
This team is in trouble. There are no consistent shooters, so everyone is just zoning them and laughing.

[Boston Red]

Creighton is fun to watch when they're on. Not so much when you're a fan of the team they're playing, of course.

[reds1869]

Creighton is fun to watch when they're on. Not so much when you're a fan of the team they're playing, of course.

The way they dismantled Nova was impressive. The Big East race is going to be exciting.

[RedTeamGo!]

OSU will most likely correct itself and make the tourney, but boy is this terrible to watch.

[bucksfan2]

OSU will most likely correct itself and make the tourney, but boy is this terrible to watch.

Its awful. We all knew they would have trouble scoring but I can't overlook the pitiful job Thad has done lately.

Last night he watched the game go from a 1 point deficit to a 14 point deficit without using any of his time outs. He was going to lose one time out regardless at half. Then in the 2nd half he watched the game spiral out of control without using a TO. He did the same in both the Iowa and Minnesota games. Also last night late in the game the announcers said that Nebraska didn't shoot the 3 all that well, why not go to a zone? Bring Amir in and defend the basket. Oh and someone please tell Q to take a little more time shooting FT's, his shot is too good to miss as many as he does.

Aaron Craft has been my favorite college basketball player ever to watch. Right now he needs to be sat down for a little bit. He is pressing too much and making terrible turnovers. The development of his shot has been disappointing to say the least.

[RedTeamGo!]

Can't sit Craft, he just needs to work through it.

Matta is an interesting case. I have been saying for years he is a terrible in-game coach, but he is one of the best, if not the best, recruiters in college basketball. I do not consider Williams, Self, Coach K, Calipari (at kentucky) as great recruiters because they can just call kids up and say "Hey, Rasheed Wallace, want to play for UNC?" OSU is historically a good bball program, but when Matta took over they were never serious contenders and rarely had great recruits. Since Matta has taken over we have seen multiple legit NBA prospects come and go. A trend I have noticed when OSU plays good competition though is OSU goes into halftime with a lead and while the other coach is making adjustments Matta either refuses to or is incapable. This has a tendency to result in OSU looking bad in the 2nd half. Every year part of me (my heart) wants OSU to move on from Matta after disapointing tourney runs, but the other part of me (my brain) understands OSU would most likely struggle without his recruiting expertise.

[CoachBombay]

Frustrated about OSU's performance over the past two games and even more frustrated at Thad's coaching. He made coaching errors in both the Iowa and Minnesota games. In the Iowa game he went with a terrible rotation with OSU up 8 in the 2nd half. Iowa proceeded to go on a big run and pull away late. Then against Minnesota he spent the better half of 5-8 minutes with a lineup on the court that was maddening. He went small putting Loving in there instead of Williams. But then he kept that same lineup in the game when Minnesota started pounding it inside and OSU couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.

I knew that OSU was going to struggle offensively this season. I knew their #3 ranking was a little elevated but there is no excuse for losing to Iowa at home and Minnesota on the road back to back. There is no excuse for Thad keeping Lenzell Smith on the court when he is cold and making bad decisions. There is no excuse for not having a guy on the roster not named Ross who can hit an outside shot. Thad needs to coach better, mix and match lineups, get Smith out when he is chucking up bad shots and turning ball over. Get Williams into the game when they are getting dominated in the post.

Maybe they need a real coach. One who gets them to pick up the trash in front of the net. One who turned a winless District 5 team into the world renowned Mighty Ducks. May not no much about basketball, but winning comes naturally

[bucksfan2]

Can't sit Craft, he just needs to work through it.

Matta is an interesting case. I have been saying for years he is a terrible in-game coach, but he is one of the best, if not the best, recruiters in college basketball. I do not consider Williams, Self, Coach K, Calipari (at kentucky) as great recruiters because they can just call kids up and say "Hey, Rasheed Wallace, want to play for UNC?" OSU is historically a good bball program, but when Matta took over they were never serious contenders and rarely had great recruits. Since Matta has taken over we have seen multiple legit NBA prospects come and go. A trend I have noticed when OSU plays good competition though is OSU goes into halftime with a lead and while the other coach is making adjustments Matta either refuses to or is incapable. This has a tendency to result in OSU looking bad in the 2nd half. Every year part of me (my heart) wants OSU to move on from Matta after disapointing tourney runs, but the other part of me (my brain) understands OSU would most likely struggle without his recruiting expertise.

I think Thad is one of the best coaches in the game when you take into consideration everything. When you take into consideration recruiting, development, results, and game coaching. What bothers me with Thad is he doesn't really actively manage a game. He is a "stay the course" type of coach, he doesn't make quick changes, doesn't change the style of play often, sticks with a rotation for too long.

IMO all three games they lost should have been won if Thad would have meddled in the game a little more. In the Iowa game, Iowa went from down 9 to grab a lead when OSU had a bad group of the floor. He had both Loving and Della Valle in the game at the same time. He waited too long to do anything and all of the sudden a 9 point lead was a 5 point deficit. Thad spent the better half of a big Minnesota run with a group on the court that couldn't find the basket if it was pointed out to them.

The Nebraska game really highlighted where I think Thad needs work. At the 6:18 mark it was a 20-21 game. Over the next 4 minutes Nebraska went on a 13-0 run to stretch without using one of his 5 time outs. Without using a time out that was going to go away at half time regardless. I don't know if it would have mattered, he could have changed the lineup, gotten an offensive play called, changed the flow of the game but he didn't. This team needs to be coached. This team needs help getting the best 5 players on the court on any given night. This team needs a coach who is going to realize when a game is slipping away and try and stop the momentum. In watching the games you can feel it start to slip away. In the past Thad has let his players play through those rough patches, this team looks like it is unable to do so.

[WVRed]

Can't sit Craft, he just needs to work through it.

Matta is an interesting case. I have been saying for years he is a terrible in-game coach, but he is one of the best, if not the best, recruiters in college basketball. I do not consider Williams, Self, Coach K, Calipari (at kentucky) as great recruiters because they can just call kids up and say "Hey, Rasheed Wallace, want to play for UNC?" OSU is historically a good bball program, but when Matta took over they were never serious contenders and rarely had great recruits. Since Matta has taken over we have seen multiple legit NBA prospects come and go. A trend I have noticed when OSU plays good competition though is OSU goes into halftime with a lead and while the other coach is making adjustments Matta either refuses to or is incapable. This has a tendency to result in OSU looking bad in the 2nd half. Every year part of me (my heart) wants OSU to move on from Matta after disapointing tourney runs, but the other part of me (my brain) understands OSU would most likely struggle without his recruiting expertise.

I think Matta has slipped some in the recruiting department. When Matta first came to Columbus, he capitalized on Indiana being down and to a lesser extent Kentucky as well. Does anybody think Tom Crean would have let Oden and Conley out of the Hoosier State? Or Calipari vs Thad for their services. There have been others, namely Koufous, Mullens, Thomas, and Sullinger, but it seems like recruiting is tightening up a bit and Ohio St is suffering as a result.

[bucksfan2]

I think Matta has slipped some in the recruiting department. When Matta first came to Columbus, he capitalized on Indiana being down and to a lesser extent Kentucky as well. Does anybody think Tom Crean would have let Oden and Conley out of the Hoosier State? Or Calipari vs Thad for their services. There have been others, namely Koufous, Mullens, Thomas, and Sullinger, but it seems like recruiting is tightening up a bit and Ohio St is suffering as a result.

I don't know if I would go that far. It is no secret that Thad got both Connely and Oden because Mike Davis screwed that up. I think a couple of things happened that put OSU in the current situation.

The 2011 class hasn't performed the way many expected it to. Scott, Thompson, and Williams never developed the way many had expected them to. It is even more glaring on the offensive end where those three can struggle to score. The 11 class was supposed to be good, very good, but the inconsistency of those players is maddening.

Secondly there hasn't been a rebuild. There hasn't been a time where the young guys could grow. They haven't had a period where the young guys could learn and develop. Since Sullinger they haven't brought in an impact freshman that was ready to step in and play. Guys like Loving and Della Valle have had little impact on the team so far this season.

[Boston Red]

Thad did a fabulous job with much more limited talent at Xavier (check the '04 Elite Eight team post-David West). The guy can definitely coach and not just recruit (speaking of, he did a pretty awful job of recruiting at Xavier given the roster he turned over to Sean Miller).

[redsfan1995]

I think Matta has slipped some in the recruiting department. When Matta first came to Columbus, he capitalized on Indiana being down and to a lesser extent Kentucky as well. Does anybody think Tom Crean would have let Oden and Conley out of the Hoosier State? Or Calipari vs Thad for their services. There have been others, namely Koufous, Mullens, Thomas, and Sullinger, but it seems like recruiting is tightening up a bit and Ohio St is suffering as a result.

Sure the last few classes have been lacking talent but I don't think Matta has slipped. Look at the talent coming in next year two 5 star talents one a combo guard Russell and a small/power forward Bates-Diop who are pure scorers. Then a 4 star jaesean tate who will bring the same things to the table as a david lighty and should be a very good 4 year player.

[RiverRat13]

The talent in Ohio was down the last few years after being incredibly good right after Thad took over. If you go back and look at the rosters of Thad's really good teams, other than Conley, Oden and Turner, you see mostly Ohio kids on there. He's had to go out-of-state and you're not going to win most of those battles. The junior class in Ohio has two studs in Kennard and Bragg and neither is a lock to OSU at this point. That is a little concerning, but if he gets one of the two and then locks down a few in the talented sophomore class (V.J. King), OSU will be just fine.

The other problem is that Ohio hasn't produced a top big men since Sully. The state had a nice string there with Koufus, Mullens (who didn't do a whole lot at OSU) and Sullinger as all 5-star type talents. There hasn't been a whole lot of frontcourt talent in Ohio lately and outside of Bragg there isn't much coming that I know of until maybe this year's freshman class.

[WMR]

UK is hard after them both. Really want Kennard. Kid can straight up fill it up and will be a multi year player. His family are all die - hard UK fans... hope he comes.

[CoachBombay]

UK is hard after them both. Really want Kennard. Kid can straight up fill it up and will be a multi year player. His family are all die - hard UK fans... hope he comes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yul4f_JB2QM

Show him this video and its a lock he will go to UK

[bucksfan2]

I wonder what last season would have looked like had Thad offered Trey Burke.

[RedTeamGo!]

I think people here are undervaluing 2 time Mr. Basketball Marc Loving.

[WVRed]

I wonder what last season would have looked like had Thad offered Trey Burke.

Or Adreain Payne.

There's been some top flight talent Matta has let slip out of the Buckeye State.

[redsfan1995]

Or Adreain Payne.

There's been some top flight talent Matta has let slip out of the Buckeye State.

The only thing with him though is he was in the same class as Sullinger and they played the same position so that really would have not worked. But I will always wonder what would have happened if Thad took Burke instead of Shannon Scott.

[bucksfan2]

The only thing with him though is he was in the same class as Sullinger and they played the same position so that really would have not worked. But I will always wonder what would have happened if Thad took Burke instead of Shannon Scott.

I don't necessarily think Thad missed on Scott, I just don't think he has developed at the rate many thought he was going to. The puzzling thing with Scott is his shot looks good. Good form, release, follow through, etc. He just has been hesitant throughout his career to shoot the ball.

[redsfan1995]

I don't necessarily think Thad missed on Scott, I just don't think he has developed at the rate many thought he was going to. The puzzling thing with Scott is his shot looks good. Good form, release, follow through, etc. He just has been hesitant throughout his career to shoot the ball.

I agree he shows flashes of his ability. I think next year though will be his best year because he will be able to just play the 1 and distribute more which fits his game more than playing off the ball.

[WVRed]

The only thing with him though is he was in the same class as Sullinger and they played the same position so that really would have not worked. But I will always wonder what would have happened if Thad took Burke instead of Shannon Scott.

I think Payne is athletic enough that he could have played the 4. It could have been done. Would have been a pretty imposing front court.

[RiverRat13]

Payne was offered but never seriously considered OSU for some reason.

I'm hearing Kennard is a Duke lean at this point. I thought he would be UK bound.

[Revering4Blue]

Funny how all of the ACC honks were sure that that three Big East arrivals were going to struggle within the conference -- granted, Notre Dame has, but that's largely due to losing Jerian Grant, or they'd likely also be running roughshod through the conference -- and that the Tobacco Road "chosen two in Blue" were going to continue their conference dominance.

It hasn't worked out that way.

[Boston Red]

Carolina also lost to UAB and Belmont (and Wake). So I don't think you can chalk their struggles up to the Big East newcomers. They just kind of stink this year.

[Revering4Blue]

Carolina also lost to UAB and Belmont (and Wake). So I don't think you can chalk their struggles up to the Big East newcomers. They just kind of stink this year.

Of course not. But there's no way that UNC, even without Hairston, should be this bad. They still have their usual allotment of at least four Parade All-Americans playing for them (Same as Duke). How many Parade All-Americans are suiting up for Pittsburgh or Virginia, for that matter?

One other note: Florida State appears to be, once again, exceeding pre season expectations. Leonard Hamilton quietly continues to do a nice job in Tallahassee.

[Revering4Blue]

EAST LANSING, Mich. — Injuries and illnesses have plagued Michigan State's season, but now they are threatening it.

MSU junior forward Branden Dawson is out four to five weeks and will have surgery Thursday evening after breaking a bone in his right hand, the school announced at a news conference at Breslin Center.


Dawson said he slammed his hand Thursday morning while watching a film session and getting frustrated.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/bigten/2014/01/23/branden-dawson-michigan-state-broken-bone-out-4-5-weeks/4802817/

[bucksfan2]

Payne was offered but never seriously considered OSU for some reason.

I'm hearing Kennard is a Duke lean at this point. I thought he would be UK bound.

Where would Payne have fit in that recruiting class? Sullinger, Thomas, and Seibert were all bigger gets that year. The thing about recruiting is some times you hit and some times you miss. To be honest through the first 3 years of Payne's career I was perfectly happy with Thomas over him. Heck if Thomas would have stayed for his senior year I think OSU would been quite content with Thomas over Payne.

[RiverRat13]

Where would Payne have fit in that recruiting class? Sullinger, Thomas, and Seibert were all bigger gets that year. The thing about recruiting is some times you hit and some times you miss. To be honest through the first 3 years of Payne's career I was perfectly happy with Thomas over him. Heck if Thomas would have stayed for his senior year I think OSU would been quite content with Thomas over Payne.

Sullinger and Thomas were ranked higher, but Sibert was not a 5-star guy like Payne was in some services (both Scout and Rivals gave Payne 5-stars). And had they had Payne, Sully would have played the 4 and Thomas the 3 a decent amount in 2012 (Payne would not have been good enough to play in '11). There was no either/or as Thomas and Sullinger had committed when they were pretty young, yet Matta continued to recruit Payne. I would guess Weatherspoon would never have been offered had Payne committed to OSU. I believe he was the last commitment in that class.

[IslandRed]

One other note: Florida State appears to be, once again, exceeding pre season expectations. Leonard Hamilton quietly continues to do a nice job in Tallahassee.

They've gotten the defense back on track after a mediocre 2012-13. The four seasons before that, they ranked something like 5-1-1-7 in Division 1 FG% defense. I think they're either #5 or #6 in that category right now, and they look like they did a few years ago: tall, athletic, relentless.

Unfortunately, they still struggle for long stretches with concepts like "take care of the ball" and "play offense," so I'm expecting something like a seed in the 7-9 range and win-one-lose-one exit from the NCAAs.

[Slyder]

The other problem is that Ohio hasn't produced a top big men since Sully. The state had a nice string there with Koufus, Mullens (who didn't do a whole lot at OSU) and Sullinger as all 5-star type talents. There hasn't been a whole lot of frontcourt talent in Ohio lately and outside of Bragg there isn't much coming that I know of until maybe this year's freshman class.

Isn't that a problem across the nation? You hardly see great big men any more. Even in the NBA where Dwight Howard is the "best" big man in NBA by default. Olajuwon and Shaq would leave Howard crying into his gatorade. Style has moved away from the big men its more about PG and PF IMO.

[Boston Red]

My adopted hometown Shockers now up to #3 and #4 in the polls. I'm hoping this town gets another Final Four run. A matchup with KU when they get there would be icing on the cake.

[Boston Red]

So do you think they've already engraved Doug McDermott's name on all the national player of the year trophies? If not, they may as well go ahead and start tonight.

[texasdave]

So do you think they've already engraved Doug McDermott's name on all the national player of the year trophies? If not, they may as well go ahead and start tonight.

Times certainly have changed. Pete Maravich averaged over 44 points per game in college. Without a shot clock. Without a three-point line. I understand there are no comparing different eras, but Maravich was simply amazing at LSU. Pistol Pete may not have been the best collegiate player ever. But, to me, he was the most entertaining.

Found this tidbit surfing the web:


Dale Brown calculated that at the NCAA rule of a three-point line at 19 feet 9 inches (6.02 m) from the rim, Maravich would have averaged thirteen 3-point scores per game, lifting the player's career average to 57 points per game.

[Boston Red]

Well before my time, but the knock on Maravich has been that his LSU teams sucked. Part of that was, I'm sure, because his dad was a lousy coach and let Pete do whatever he wanted. At 44 PPG, that wasn't a terrible decision, but he probably should have tried to find another competent player or two.

[Boston Red]

Ohio State has managed to go from #2 or #3 in the country to Bubble team. Impressive.

[Revering4Blue]

Down goes Wisconsin at home against Northwestern.

What a whacked-out night in the B1G.

[Playadlc]

Northwestern is the new Wisconsin.

[Boston Red]

Sure didn't anticipate Georgetown taking out Michigan State on a neutral court. Georgetown has been terrible lately (5 losses in a row and 6 of 7 coming in).

[Assembly Hall]

Northwestern is the new Wisconsin.

LOL....yepper, they win ugly!;)

[Revering4Blue]

With the Super Bowl in the past, here are the ten things you need to know about college basketball.

1. Injuries plaguing two of the nation’s best.

2. Andrew Wiggins is overrated and underrated.

3. Tyler Ennis is the nation’s best freshman.

4. The Big 12, not the ACC, is the best conference.

5. The Big Ten is nuts.

6. Kentucky’s talented, but can they win a title?

7. Doug McDermott has been awesome.

8. Wichita State is better than they were last year.

9. Best team in the American is … Cincinnati?

10. The Mountain West is down, but SDSU isn’t.

For further explanation, read on.

http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/02/03/with-the-super-bowl-in-the-past-here-are-the-ten-things-you-need-to-know-about-college-basketball/

[Assembly Hall]

Isn't that a problem across the nation? You hardly see great big men any more. Even in the NBA where Dwight Howard is the "best" big man in NBA by default. Olajuwon and Shaq would leave Howard crying into his gatorade. Style has moved away from the big men its more about PG and PF IMO.

Naw, I would say that Roy Hibbert is the best big man in the NBA!!!!!!!!

But you are right.....the shot clock and the three point shot have changed the college game. It is more about guard play and silky smooth 6-8 guys.

[redsfan1995]

I just don't understand OSU this year lose at home to Penn State and then go win at Wisconsin and Iowa.

[traderumor]

I just don't understand OSU this year lose at home to Penn State and then go win at Wisconsin and Iowa.The bottom is better, the top has slid a bit, so everyone's meeting in the middle and the Big 10 is any given night this season.

[Assembly Hall]

I just don't understand OSU this year lose at home to Penn State and then go win at Wisconsin and Iowa.

JMHO, but they aint been the same since that loss at Michigan State.

[dabvu2498]

Vanderbilt wins their 4th SEC game in a row. With 7 guys. Kevin Stallings is pretty good.

[Assembly Hall]

Vanderbilt wins their 4th SEC game in a row. With 7 guys. Kevin Stallings is pretty good.

One of the best coaches in the country IMHO.

[Sea Ray]

Vanderbilt wins their 4th SEC game in a row. With 7 guys. Kevin Stallings is pretty good.

You held serve at home. Let's see what happens March 1st

[dabvu2498]

You held serve at home. Let's see what happens March 1st

VU has 7 dudes. A walk on played a couple minutes last night because VUs PG was sick. By March 1, you guys will be looking for a new coach.

[Sea Ray]

VU has 7 dudes. A walk on played a couple minutes last night because VUs PG was sick. By March 1, you guys will be looking for a new coach.

So you're saying Vandy will roll to victory? If anything, UT will be looking forward to Spring football at that point and won't care about basketball

[dabvu2498]

So you're saying Vandy will roll to victory? If anything, UT will be looking forward to Spring football at that point and won't care about basketball

I'm saying that with all the adversity, VU shouldn't be beating anyone and that Stallings is doing a pretty darn good job with what he has.

You want to make this about UT. Clearly you care.

[Sea Ray]

So why are you posting in this thread if you don't care?

I do care. That's why I am posting.

Why won't you answer my question?

[dabvu2498]

I do care. That's why I am posting.

Why won't you answer my question?

Because it's not a real question. I don't take fake bait.

[Sea Ray]

Because it's not a real question. I don't take fake bait.

But you give fake bait? Asking about winning and losing is as direct as it gets in sports. Asking whether I care or not sure seems a lot more nefarious. You talked about being shorthanded last night so I asked whether having more bodies March 1 will mean an easy win. If that wasn't your point then I missed it.

[dabvu2498]

But you give fake bait? Asking about winning and losing is as direct as it gets in sports. Asking whether I care or not sure seems a lot more nefarious. You talked about being shorthanded last night so I asked whether having more bodies March 1 will mean an easy win. If that wasn't your point then I missed it.

They won't have more bodies March 1. This is it for the rest of the season. Seven scholarship guys and a walk on that plays a little. And those seven really aren't that good, individually. But collectively, they're providing a few nice moments in what could have otherwise been a bleak season. They play their butts off and deserve a little recognition. That's all.

If you want to talk about winning and losing, it's been 354 days since UT beat VU in any of the 4 "TV sports." I wasn't going to go there, but ok.

[Sea Ray]

They won't have more bodies March 1. This is it for the rest of the season. Seven scholarship guys and a walk on that plays a little. And those seven really aren't that good, individually. But collectively, they're providing a few nice moments in what could have otherwise been a bleak season. They play their butts off and deserve a little recognition. That's all.

If you want to talk about winning and losing, it's been 354 days since UT beat VU in any of the 4 "TV sports." I wasn't going to go there, but ok.

Go there, no problem. It's all fair game. I'd say UT sure better beat Vandy in March.

[cumberlandreds]

One thing is for sure Vandy has the better coach than Tennessee. Stallings is one of the best in the country. He's doing wonders this season for what little he has available. I saw their RPI was like 68 the other day. That's really not too far off from being NCAA at large worthy. That's amazing. Tennessee on the other hand has good talent. One of three or four best talented teams in the SEC and they are stumbling along and probably won't make the NCAA's the way they are going. Martin is just not getting the most out of his talent.

[dabvu2498]

One thing is for sure Vandy has the better coach than Tennessee. Stallings is one of the best in the country. He's doing wonders this season for what little he has available. I saw their RPI was like 68 the other day. That's really not too far off from being NCAA at large worthy. That's amazing. Tennessee on the other hand has good talent. One of three or four best talented teams in the SEC and they are stumbling along and probably won't make the NCAA's the way they are going. Martin is just not getting the most out of his talent.

Funny thing is... Two years ago, I probably would have said the exact opposite.

[Assembly Hall]

Oh the irony of it all. Both coaches played at Purdue under Gene Keady.

[Boston Red]

Oh the irony of it all. Both coaches played at Purdue under Gene Keady.

And Keady is on a Lavin staff that definitely has talent that is not being unlocked...

[Assembly Hall]

And Keady is on a Lavin staff that definitely has talent that is not being unlocked...

Lavin was on Keady's staff at Purdue at one time. I always admired Keady, he won with no talent at all more often than not. But he seemed to fall short when he had it.

[WMR]

Tennessee needs to bring back The Big Orange Sweat Hog. :D

[WVRed]

That swooshing sound you hear is Marcus Smarts NBA draft stock going down the toilet.

[Assembly Hall]

That swooshing sound you hear is Marcus Smarts NBA draft stock going down the toilet.

So much for returning to lead the Cowboys to a FF and having some fun.

[WVRed]

So much for returning to lead the Cowboys to a FF and having some fun.

No doubt.

There is only one thing that would make Smarts actions semi excusable, and given the game was in Texas, that is entirely possible.

[Assembly Hall]

No doubt.

There is only one thing that would make Smarts actions semi excusable, and given the game was in Texas, that is entirely possible.

That may be.........I think he should seek some advice from Ron Artest!!!!!!

[bigredmechanism]

No doubt.

There is only one thing that would make Smarts actions semi excusable, and given the game was in Texas, that is entirely possible.

Even if the fan said what Smart said he was saying, he needs to show some restraint. Shoving the guy, whether he deserved it or not, is never appropriate. Brush it off and win the game, and then make sure that fan sees you waving hello when you do.

I wouldn't be surprised if he is suspended for the remainder of the season. If I was in charge that would be the punishment.

[WVRed]

Even if the fan said what Smart said he was saying, he needs to show some restraint. Shoving the guy, whether he deserved it or not, is never appropriate. Brush it off and win the game, and then make sure that fan sees you waving hello when you do.

I wouldn't be surprised if he is suspended for the remainder of the season. If I was in charge that would be the punishment.

If Smart is suspended for the rest of the season, the fan needs to have his tickets revoked. No excuse.

[Boston Red]

If Smart is suspended for the rest of the season, the fan needs to have his tickets revoked. No excuse.

It really depends on what the fan said.

[WVRed]

It really depends on what the fan said.

From what is being reported, it's a racial slur.

[Boston Red]

From what is being reported, it's a racial slur.

Reported by whom? I'm certain that's what Smart and OK State will claim. It's the only way this doesn't turn into a disaster for Smart (and therefore OK State).

[WVRed]

Reported by whom? I'm certain that's what Smart and OK State will claim. It's the only way this doesn't turn into a disaster for Smart (and therefore OK State).

It's on ESPN. And the fan in question has had other incidents with players as well, namely a Texas A&M player a couple years ago.

[Tony Cloninger]

Even if the fan said what Smart said he was saying, he needs to show some restraint. Shoving the guy, whether he deserved it or not, is never appropriate. Brush it off and win the game, and then make sure that fan sees you waving hello when you do.

I wouldn't be surprised if he is suspended for the remainder of the season. If I was in charge that would be the punishment.

Fans do not have any excuse to go over the line either........ this is not even a professional game ...it is college. So if the guy said something racial or way out of line....do you expect some barely 20 year old to just be cool about it during the heat of the game?

if so...pay him like a professional because even a professional would be hard pressed to refrain himself.

[Boston Red]

It's on ESPN.

Yes, but where did ESPN get it?

[Boston Red]

This article seems to indicate that some Twitter rumors have become fact to some.

http://deadspin.com/go-back-to-africa-twitter-rumor-becomes-marcus-smart-1519336610

[Razor Shines]

Fans do not have any excuse to go over the line either........ this is not even a professional game ...it is college. So if the guy said something racial or way out of line....do you expect some barely 20 year old to just be cool about it during the heat of the game?

if so...pay him like a professional because even a professional would be hard pressed to refrain himself.

Nope. Doesn't matter. I played low level college basketball, we had black guys on our team. We had games in rural parts of Oklahoma and there was a racial slur or two. We wanted to fight someone, shove somebody. I remember one specific event walking off the court after a tough loss, you can imagine the urge to put your hands on someone but you just can't.

[dubc47834]

Nope. Doesn't matter. I played low level college basketball, we had black guys on our team. We had games in rural parts of Oklahoma and there was a racial slur or two. We wanted to fight someone, shove somebody. I remember one specific event walking off the court after a tough loss, you can imagine the urge to put your hands on someone but you just can't.

I get what you're saying, but Smart was right in the middle of a crowd of people. If what is said is true and he was told go back to Africa, then he had it coming. The smartest thing Smart coulda done was let the ref or coaching staff know about it, he didn't tho, and what's done is done. If it comes out that what the fan said is true, then his suspension should be lighter. Imwould say a 3-5 game suspension is in order.

[KronoRed]

Fans really need to shut up sometimes, you aren't on the court, you aren't a part of the team or the game, your job is to sit there, cheer and eat your nachos, talk garbage to the players and you are asking for whatever happens.

[oregonred]

Iowa drills Michigan, Wisconsin upsets MSU, and tOSU is back on a mini-roll with some impressive wins the last week+.

The B1G is easily the most entertaining and unpredictable conference this season.

[Razor Shines]

I get what you're saying, but Smart was right in the middle of a crowd of people. If what is said is true and he was told go back to Africa, then he had it coming. The smartest thing Smart coulda done was let the ref or coaching staff know about it, he didn't tho, and what's done is done. If it comes out that what the fan said is true, then his suspension should be lighter. Imwould say a 3-5 game suspension is in order.

If that's what he said, then of course he had it coming. He's garbage but that doesn't give Smart or anyone else the right to physically attack him. If it's proven that he said that then he needs not be allowed in the arena to watch his beloved Red Raiders any more and that should be the standard for fans who try to instigate altercations with players.

[dubc47834]

If that's what he said, then of course he had it coming. He's garbage but that doesn't give Smart or anyone else the right to physically attack him. If it's proven that he said that then he needs not be allowed in the arena to watch his beloved Red Raiders any more and that should be the standard for fans who try to instigate altercations with players.

You're right, he shoulda showed some constraint. I don't know if I would call it an attack, he shoved him, but i get what your saying. The fan has voluntarily offered not to attend any more games this year. He says he called Smart a piece of crap...I find that hard to believe. Both he and Smart just apologized. I thought it was a good move for Smart to apologize on his own in a press conference and not thru twitter or the university. It seemed like an honest heartfelt apology...time will tell!!!

[Slyder]

You're right, he shoulda showed some constraint. I don't know if I would call it an attack, he shoved him, but i get what your saying. The fan has voluntarily offered not to attend any more games this year. He says he called Smart a piece of crap...I find that hard to believe. Both he and Smart just apologized. I thought it was a good move for Smart to apologize on his own in a press conference and not thru twitter or the university. It seemed like an honest heartfelt apology...time will tell!!!

A piece of crap gets that kind of reaction out of Smart? I don't think someone is being completely honest here...

[WMR]

This article seems to indicate that some Twitter rumors have become fact to some.

http://deadspin.com/go-back-to-africa-twitter-rumor-becomes-marcus-smart-1519336610

WV red, lol...

[WMR]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5tqqJ_h7ak&feature=youtu.be

[Razor Shines]

Well someone said "Piece of crap" but it's impossible to tell who or if Orr said anything else.

[Razor Shines]

On another note, Orr is an Air Traffic Controller, let's be sure he gets a few days off we don't want him "Donald Margolis-ing" anyone.

[WVRed]

A piece of crap gets that kind of reaction out of Smart? I don't think someone is being completely honest here...

I'm thinking the exact same thing. If that were the case, Smart should be suspended for the rest of the season. The n word or Go back to Africa seems more legit.

[Assembly Hall]

I just don't know fellas. We all did stupid stuff when we were young, however not many of us had millions of dollars hanging on the line. Smart knows what he is playing for, his age aint the question, he knows. Would I have reacted the way he did? No. I would have had that guy black and blue!!!!!!!! But if I knew what was on the line I would have had restraint. This aint about OK St., it is about Smart's future. Evidently he aint "Smart" enough to figure it out yet. If I was his Father.....I would tell him to forget about the NBA for now and get his degree.

[Revering4Blue]

NBA GM on Smart: 'His play & inability to lead his team to wins is affecting his stock. Not pushing some illiterate drunk redneck.'

https://twitter.com/AdamZagoria

[bigredmechanism]

If Smart is suspended for the rest of the season, the fan needs to have his tickets revoked. No excuse.

I can go with that, if the fan said what we think he did. Smart needs to control himself, either way. Nothing good comes from that reaction.

[Assembly Hall]

I still don't know...but the evidence is stacking up against Smart.

[cumberlandreds]

A player should never go after a fan no matter what was said. Things just have the potential to esculate way out of control when that happens. What if that fan or another one had pulled out a knife or a gun. What happen then? Smart got the right amount of punishment IMO. Also the fan should be barred for life to attend Texas Tech games. No excuse no matter what he said. He certainly said something that set Smart off whether it was racial or not no one knows but him. I read too that he had done some things in the past that were way over the line. So he should be barred no matter how much money he donates to Texas Tech. You don't an idiot like that supporting your school.

[Boston Red]

No excuse no matter what he said.

Huh?

[cumberlandreds]

Huh?

You don't fight back no matter what name he called you or what he yelled at you.

[Boston Red]

You don't fight back no matter what name he called you or what he yelled at you.

I read your post to say that the fan should be barred for life "no matter what he said." That makes no sense.

[cumberlandreds]

I read your post to say that the fan should be barred for life "no matter what he said." That makes no sense.

I just meant this particular fan should be barred for life because I had read he had done some other things in the past. Anyway someone that stupid to be taunting college players has no business there watching games. He is there just to cause trouble and that's the worst a fan can be.

[Assembly Hall]

I just meant this particular fan should be barred for life because I had read he had done some other things in the past. Anyway someone that stupid to be taunting college players has no business there watching games. He is there just to cause trouble and that's the worst a fan can be.

Watching the video and listening to the audio I disagree. The "fan" travels quite aways to get to those home games. At this point in time I am more inclined to think Smart is to blame. I wouldn't beat anybody's arsz for calling me "a piece of crap". I just don't know.

[WVRed]

I still don't know...but the evidence is stacking up against Smart.

I don't think we will ever fully know what really happened, but ask yourself this,

Why would a player who decided to bypass the NBA after one season, return to college for a second season to improve his draft stock, overreact and throw it away over being called a piece of crap? If they played at WVU again, the student section would be chanting that.

Smart is going to claim it was racial. Orr and Texas Tech are going to deny it in fear of being labeled as racist.

My guess? Orr didn't say anything racist but someone else in the crowd did and Smart thought it was Orr in the heat of the moment.

Not to mention, Texas isn't exactly a model for tolerance. As much as people like to bury their head in the sand and pretend racism doesn't exist, it's still out there.

[Boston Red]

Not to mention, Texas isn't exactly a model for tolerance.

Says a UK fan who apparently lives in WV. What a world!

[Assembly Hall]

I don't think we will ever fully know what really happened, but ask yourself this,

Why would a player who decided to bypass the NBA after one season, return to college for a second season to improve his draft stock, overreact and throw it away over being called a piece of crap? If they played at WVU again, the student section would be chanting that.

Smart is going to claim it was racial. Orr and Texas Tech are going to deny it in fear of being labeled as racist.

My guess? Orr didn't say anything racist but someone else in the crowd did and Smart thought it was Orr in the heat of the moment.

Not to mention, Texas isn't exactly a model for tolerance. As much as people like to bury their head in the sand and pretend racism doesn't exist, it's still out there.

I concur with everything you said.

And will add that I think Smart is getting frustrated. The season aint panning out like he thought it would.

[Assembly Hall]

Says a UK fan who apparently lives in WV. What a world!

What's odd about that? UK has to rely on out of state talent to keep the program going!!!!!!!!!!!!:lol:

[WMR]

Says a UK fan who apparently lives in WV. What a world!

So comments a UL fan apparently living in Boston, widely hailed as the most racist city in New England, as much or more so than any city in the south! :laugh:

[WMR]

I don't think we will ever fully know what really happened, but ask yourself this,

Why would a player who decided to bypass the NBA after one season, return to college for a second season to improve his draft stock, overreact and throw it away over being called a piece of crap? If they played at WVU again, the student section would be chanting that.

Smart is going to claim it was racial. Orr and Texas Tech are going to deny it in fear of being labeled as racist.

My guess? Orr didn't say anything racist but someone else in the crowd did and Smart thought it was Orr in the heat of the moment.

Not to mention, Texas isn't exactly a model for tolerance. As much as people like to bury their head in the sand and pretend racism doesn't exist, it's still out there.

I always find it sort of amusing when someone looks at an irrational act (attacking a fan in the stands) and automatically assumes that there must be some sort of rational basis that caused the irrational behavior.

[Sea Ray]

It makes no sense no matter what was said. Let's say the fan called him all the nastiest words in the book? What good does it do to shove him? Beat him like a drum, OK, but just a shove accomplishes nothing rational

[Boston Red]

So comments a UL fan apparently living in Boston, widely hailed as the most racist city in New England, as much or more so than any city in the south! :laugh:

I live in Wichita now....so THERE!

I'm not sure Boston was racist so much as just incredibly self-segregated. It was kind of weird.

And I'm sure WVRed is a very nice, kind-hearted person. But Kentucky (where I am also from BTW) and WV don't really have better reputations than TX on this issue.

[Assembly Hall]

I always find it sort of amusing when someone looks at an irrational act (attacking a fan in the stands) and automatically assumes that there must be some sort of rational basis that caused the irrational behavior.

Now that is one heckuva comment there and one after reading that I can really appreciate. Got me to thinking about the General throwing that chair and how I tried to "rationalize" the action.

[Boston Red]

I always find it sort of amusing when someone looks at an irrational act (attacking a fan in the stands) and automatically assumes that there must be some sort of rational basis that caused the irrational behavior.

I agree with this. I heard people say that the fan MUST have used the n-word or another racial slur. Otherwise, why would he react like that? And I wondered: have none of these people ever seen two white people get into it? Probably no racial slur causing that. Sometimes two people just act like idiots.

[Assembly Hall]

I agree BR. By nature we are an inquisitive species. When something happens we ask questions. Then we want answers to those questions. My personal life has taught me that sometimes I just might not ever know the answers to some of the questions that I pose. It has also taught me that sometimes the answer does no good either, meaning that if I hear the answer, it aint the one I wanted to hear. I just never applied those to the sports world. It was just a pitiful incident all the way around...in the end Smart suffers, the fan suffers, OK State suffers, Texas Tech suffers, and in general college basketball suffers. No good out of it whatsoever. File it away and move on.

[traderumor]

I always find it sort of amusing when someone looks at an irrational act (attacking a fan in the stands) and automatically assumes that there must be some sort of rational basis that caused the irrational behavior.I see folks assuming that whatever triggered the reaction, it must have been pretty bad to get that reaction. While that does not excuse the reaction, neither does it dismiss the event as an irrational overreaction, just like a dad drop kicking a boyfriend that violated his daughter would be irrational but understandable.

Dismissiveness is just as cute to watch. Add a touch of arrogance (look at that behavior, it is irrational [translate, he is an out of control person, I do not understand how anyone could ever have such a reaction, therefore it is merely an irrational reaction]). Neat.

[traderumor]

Ohio State is not a very good team. Amir Williams has the basketball IQ of a slug, provides an example nearly every game. For some reason, Thad cannot get a good big man recruited since hitting the jackpot with Oden and Sullinger. But then, if he could recruit a few guys that can shoot, an average but strong rebounding big man would work. He has neither.

This next class looks promising, hopefully his unwillingness to spread out playing time doesn't lose half of the class. Matta is a great coach, but some of his practices seem to be removing the shine in bringing in good basketball players.

Now for my Aaron Craft rant. Bad passes. How many he has made this year is probably safely in the 50-60 range, it is usually at least 2-3 a game, just throws the ball away, trying to make the low side bounce pass and missing terribly. His PG play for a senior season has been atrocious. His shot has went from inconsistent to horrible, not sure what happened, but his season has been difficult to watch. Poor decision making, poor passing, working the offense when he should be using his penetration/driving skills.

Who knows, maybe a disappointing regular season will turn into an unexpected tournament run, but I think it is more likely that they win one game and miss the sweet 16 this year. Just not enough basketball players on the team, loads of athletic talent, just not skilled bball players.

[oregonred]

Who knows, maybe a disappointing regular season will turn into an unexpected tournament run, but I think it is more likely that they win one game and miss the sweet 16 this year. Just not enough basketball players on the team, loads of athletic talent, just not skilled bball players.

3-20 from three point range and outrebounded by double digits. Terrible last 15 minutes from OSU last night.

No consistent inside presence and one decent outside shooter. The bench also appears to be shortening (Loving?).

OSU is what they are this year. A low end top 25 team capable of beating almost anyone when they click, but losing to anyone in the top 100 that can shoot 40% or more from three point range and/or offer a serious post threat.

[Assembly Hall]

The Bucks just didn't look very good all the way around.

[oregonred]

The Bucks just didn't look very good all the way around.

First 25 mins were fine (7-9 point lead consistently). Then the offense and defense both went into the tank.

[bucksfan2]

Last night brought about my biggest gripe with Thad. Midway through the 2nd OSU has a 7 point lead. Michigan goes on a 13-0 run without Thad using a time out, player sub, anything. He let the guys he had on the court take an ok lead and turn it into a deficit that was too much to overcome. WHY?

Then OSU is having a difficult time defensive rebounding. But Thad keeps a smallish lineup on the court. At times both Scott and Craft on the court at the same time are redundant. If it isn't an up tempo game that is a recipe for disaster. The Williams foul late was as stupid as it gets, but I think the game was pretty much over at that point anyway.

[oregonred]

That stretch was not one of Matta's better efforts. Hated to see that 9-0 home record vs. Mich go up in smoke with a strong first half. Beilein is a good coach and appears to be recruiting guys that can shoot...

[RedTeamGo!]

A trend I have noticed when OSU plays good competition though is OSU goes into halftime with a lead and while the other coach is making adjustments Matta either refuses to or is incapable. This has a tendency to result in OSU looking bad in the 2nd half.

Strikes again.

[traderumor]

That stretch was not one of Matta's better efforts. Hated to see that 9-0 home record vs. Mich go up in smoke with a strong first half. Beilein is a good coach and appears to be recruiting guys that can shoot...What a novel concept, perimeter players who can shoot.

[bucksfan2]

That stretch was not one of Matta's better efforts. Hated to see that 9-0 home record vs. Mich go up in smoke with a strong first half. Beilein is a good coach and appears to be recruiting guys that can shoot...

In every single loss (sans MSU) they have had one of those killer stretches where Matta just sat on his hands.

This team is a good team, they just are going to struggle at times. They are going to struggle to score the ball, they are going to have guys having off nights and guys who are hot. When you are struggling to score having Scott, Thompson, and Craft on the court at the same time doesn't work. When Smith Jr. is shooting at will and missing he isn't helping the team. When you can feel your lead starting to erode you need to do something. Thad hasn't done that this season. He has always been very slow to make in game adjustments. In the past with better teams that has worked out more often than not. With this team he needs to "coach" more. He needs to make use of his time outs and make quicker substitutions.

[Assembly Hall]

First 25 mins were fine (7-9 point lead consistently). Then the offense and defense both went into the tank.

Michigan was getting easy shots and missing them. I don't know if the Bucks defense was ever really good last night. But the offense certainly went into the tank.

[Assembly Hall]

Last night brought about my biggest gripe with Thad. Midway through the 2nd OSU has a 7 point lead. Michigan goes on a 13-0 run without Thad using a time out, player sub, anything. He let the guys he had on the court take an ok lead and turn it into a deficit that was too much to overcome. WHY?

Then OSU is having a difficult time defensive rebounding. But Thad keeps a smallish lineup on the court. At times both Scott and Craft on the court at the same time are redundant. If it isn't an up tempo game that is a recipe for disaster. The Williams foul late was as stupid as it gets, but I think the game was pretty much over at that point anyway.

I feel your pain man. The one thing that I looked at was the fact that Michigan came into the game licking their wounds. Indiana handled them and Iowa kicked their arsz. Seemed like teams had come up with a recipe to handle the Canuck.

Conversely the Bucks were on the upswing. Winning a couple of tough roadies.

I just don't know.

[improbus]

So much money, but so much goodness....

http://www.retrocollegecuts.com/Retro-College-Cuts-SHORTS-s/1814.htm

[Tom Servo]

Really exciting Arizona St. upset tonight.

[Sea Ray]

I always find it sort of amusing when someone looks at an irrational act (attacking a fan in the stands) and automatically assumes that there must be some sort of rational basis that caused the irrational behavior.

UC is now ranked 7th and well ahead of UK. Think UC would beat UK on a neutral floor?

[Boston Red]

Sagarin Predictor would make UK a 3.5 point favorite over UC on a neutral floor. I think that's about right.

[WMR]

UC is now ranked 7th and well ahead of UK. Think UC would beat UK on a neutral floor?

I have no clue what would happen... I have very little confidence in this UK team to reliably beat a tough opponent. Probably a toss up. UC's guys would almost definitely play harder than UK's, which would be a big advantage. Overall talent would go to UK.

But as we all know, hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.

[Orenda]

I have no clue what would happen... I have very little confidence in this UK team to reliably beat a tough opponent. Probably a toss up. UC's guys would almost definitely play harder than UK's, which would be a big advantage. Overall talent would go to UK.

But as we all know, hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.

what is with that uc offense anyhow. brutal

[Boston Red]

Quite an end to regulation in Waco.

[bucksfan2]

UC is now ranked 7th and well ahead of UK. Think UC would beat UK on a neutral floor?

No. I don't even think UC would beat OSU on a neutral floor. I give them a lot of credit this season, Kilpatrick has turned himself into a cold blooded scorer. Jackson has turned into a very good defender and offensive player as well. The rest of the team has bought into their roles, Rubles no longer thinks he is an offensive force.

This UC team reminds me of a bunch of CUSA teams, where they were good, but in hindsight were a little inflated by their schedule. If the shots are falling I think UC can play with any team in the country. I just don't see them as one of the best 7 teams in the country, but then again, who deserves it more?

[texasdave]

The nation's top two teams are in barn burners tonight. Boston College and Syracuse are tied in OT. Auburn is up by a deuce with about a minute to play in regulation.

George Mason leads #10 St. Louis by 1 with .9 seconds showing on the clock. Jett makes the second of two free throws and it is OT for the Billikens.

Florida knocks down their free throws in the final minute to pull it out.

And it is a final now. The Eagles of BC, 6-19 on the season, fly into the Carrier Dome and squeeze the Orange in OT.

[Revering4Blue]

Syracuse loses at home in OT to bottom-feeder Boston College.

Whaaat?

[texasdave]

Syracuse loses at home in OT to bottom-feeder Boston College.

Whaaat?

Any given Wednesday. :)

[Revering4Blue]

Any given Wednesday. :)

That's as good of an explanation as any. Let's see if Saint Louis survives this George Mason upset attempt.

[texasdave]

I have nothing against the Florida Gators but I was hoping that they got knocked off. That would have probably made Wichita State the number one team in the polls. Showing my age, I remember when the Bearcats played the Wheatshockers in the old Missouri Valley Conference.

[texasdave]

I will wager that Jim Boeheim could use some BC Powder after tonight's game. :)

[Assembly Hall]

The 'Cuse has been living dangerously for awhile now. It was only a matter of time.

[dabvu2498]

No jokes about UNC storming the court last night?

[Assembly Hall]

No jokes about UNC storming the court last night?

Not until Cal brings it up in an interview........then I will be all over it like a fat lady on cake!!!!!!!!!!!

[WMR]

No jokes about UNC storming the court last night?

There was a sign-up sheet for next semester's No Show AFAM class at midcourt.

[Assembly Hall]

There was a sign-up sheet for next semester's No Show AFAM class at midcourt.

LMAO!!!!!!!!!! That is dang funny!:lol:

[Slyder]

Not until Cal brings it up in an interview........then I will be all over it like a fat lady on cake!!!!!!!!!!!

But would you be like white on rice?

[Assembly Hall]

But would you be like white on rice?

Absolutely!!!!!!!!!!!!!:thumbup:

[WVRed]

Another day, another Duke bailout from the refs. Boeheims meltdown didn't help matters much either.

[Revering4Blue]

Another day, another Duke bailout from the refs. Boeheims meltdown didn't help matters much either.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLYNsr2a_BM#t=25

But giving credit where credit is due, UNC, of whom I idiotically left for dead, is playing better than either Duke or 'Cuse.

[Slyder]

Another day, another Duke bailout from the refs. Boeheims meltdown didn't help matters much either.

Welcome to the All Calls (go for) Carolina Jim.

[Assembly Hall]

I didn't agree with the call, but the game was still on the line. JB's antics completely sealed the Orange's fate.

[WVRed]

I didn't agree with the call, but the game was still on the line. JB's antics completely sealed the Orange's fate.

I don't really know that I agree. Duke would have likely been shooting free throws and likely would have put the game out of reach.

I respect Coach K and what he has done for the game but I really am sick of the media infatuation with Duke. Every talking head last night defended the call and Boeheim became the villain. If you check polls though, such as Sports nation, most fans believed it should have been a blocking foul or no call.

I love it for what it is though, Boeheim taking on Tobacco Road.

[KronoRed]

I don't really know that I agree. Duke would have likely been shooting free throws and likely would have put the game out of reach.


I don't agree, Duke missed almost half of the Ft's they took yesterday, Boeheim took what might have been a 1 poss game and blew it, his ranting accomplished nothing, he should apologize to his team for not giving them a chance, rant like a loon after the game.

[Assembly Hall]

I don't really know that I agree. Duke would have likely been shooting free throws and likely would have put the game out of reach.

It was a player control foul. Duke would have had to get the ball inbounds first.

[bucksfan2]

I don't agree, Duke missed almost half of the Ft's they took yesterday, Boeheim took what might have been a 1 poss game and blew it, his ranting accomplished nothing, he should apologize to his team for not giving them a chance, rant like a loon after the game.

Maybe this will put a spotlight on the homer job Duke gets at Cameron Indoor. I like Boeheim's reaction because it is the same thing many coaches, players, and fans feel when they get homered by the officials playing Duke. Maybe something will change. I doubt it, but Boeheim sure put it in focus for a couple of days.

[WVRed]

Maybe this will put a spotlight on the homer job Duke gets at Cameron Indoor. I like Boeheim's reaction because it is the same thing many coaches, players, and fans feel when they get homered by the officials playing Duke. Maybe something will change. I doubt it, but Boeheim sure put it in focus for a couple of days.

Sums up how I feel. People want to say Boeheim cost Syracuse the game but it basically went from .1% down to zero. Not exactly great odds and that call had more of an impact than Boeheims technicals.

My question is, would we even be talking about the call if Boeheim hadn't gotten tossed? ESPN would have likely swept it under the rug but since a coach got ejected, they have to talk about it and the bias is evident.

[Boston Red]

It reminded me of Mike Davis losing his s*#t at the end of a UK/IU game that hadn't yet been decided (until he stormed on the court and got two technicals). I think Boeheim acted like a m0r0n. Then again, I loathe Jimmy B. Guy's a total prick.

[bucksfan2]

It reminded me of Mike Davis losing his s*#t at the end of a UK/IU game that hadn't yet been decided (until he stormed on the court and got two technicals). I think Boeheim acted like a m0r0n. Then again, I loathe Jimmy B. Guy's a total prick.

If I remember that game Mike Davis ran onto the court during a live ball. Its funny because I lost all respect for Davis that game and thought it was ironic that Bracey Wright, a freshman, had to restrain him.

I think the Boeheim two tech was more of a statement. It was a statement towards the officiating down the stretch in Duke's favor. In the grand scheme of things it doesn't mean much. Syracuse losing to Duke at Duke on a terrible call isn't going to knock them off the #1 line.

[jimbo]

Even before the Boeheim incident, I've remarked to friends on several occasions this year that it seems that head basketball coaches are at an all-time high of acting like idiots on the sidelines. It's as if they're taking cues from Jim Harbaugh. The difference is, these are college kids they're coaching. They should be setting the example. It amazes me these guys make it through a season without having massive heart attacks. Watching Matta vs. Beilein, you wonder which one is going to drop first.

[KronoRed]

Maybe this will put a spotlight on the homer job Duke gets at Cameron Indoor. I like Boeheim's reaction because it is the same thing many coaches, players, and fans feel when they get homered by the officials playing Duke. Maybe something will change. I doubt it, but Boeheim sure put it in focus for a couple of days.

Not a chance anything will change, ranting and raving never brings attention to anything, it's just a way for coaches to make a spectacle of themselves.

[Sea Ray]

They won't have more bodies March 1. This is it for the rest of the season. Seven scholarship guys and a walk on that plays a little. And those seven really aren't that good, individually. But collectively, they're providing a few nice moments in what could have otherwise been a bleak season. They play their butts off and deserve a little recognition. That's all.

If you want to talk about winning and losing, it's been 354 days since UT beat VU in any of the 4 "TV sports." I wasn't going to go there, but ok.

Today was an absolute a$$ whoopin'. Most lopsided game in the SEC this season as well as ever in the UT-Vandy history. So much for the 354 days. So much for talk of Vandy having a superior coach. He's now got this on his resume. I doubt I'll live to see the day that UT loses like this to that team west of us on I-40. Kinda shows how what happened in Nashville was a fluke. Let's all sing along to Rocky Top...

:jump:

:owned:

[WVRed]

Wichita State goes undefeated during the regular season.

And in other news, nobody stormed the court. :-P

[dabvu2498]

SeaRay -- Thank you for proving Coach Stallings right.

[WVRed]

Memphis knocks off Louisville. Looks like Pitinos beard is no more.

[Assembly Hall]

What is wrong with Michigan St.? Losing at home to Illinois? :eek:

[Sea Ray]

What is wrong with Michigan St.? Losing at home to Illinois? :eek:

Injuries

[Sea Ray]

SeaRay -- Thank you for proving Coach Stallings right.

I didn't call for coach Martin to be fired. There were others around here that criticized him. Maybe it was you, but I honestly don't remember

[Assembly Hall]

Injuries

They were at full strength my friend.

[WVRed]

They were at full strength my friend.

Cohesion.

Happens when players are out for awhile and everybody gets back to full strength. Reminds me of Duke when they got Kyrie Irving back and got bounced early in the tournament.

[Assembly Hall]

Cohesion.

Happens when players are out for awhile and everybody gets back to full strength. Reminds me of Duke when they got Kyrie Irving back and got bounced early in the tournament.

Could be, but Illinois? At home?

[Sea Ray]

They were at full strength my friend.

I understand that but injuries have kept them from the valuable time they need to play as a team. It'll be interesting to see if they improve in the next week or so. Are they a dark horse tournament team or is it a lost year?

[traderumor]

Could be, but Illinois? At home?

The Big 10 is a free for all. That's the only way I can explain Michigan winning the regular season. Every team is at a very similar talent level and there are very few stars in the league this year. And there is a lot of ugly basketball being played in the league. I can hardly stand to watch an Ohio State game. The Columbus Masonry Union is looking for dues. I guess we'll see in the tourney if its depth or mediocrity. I honestly think its the latter.

[Hoosier Red]

The Big 10 is a free for all. That's the only way I can explain Michigan winning the regular season. Every team is at a very similar talent level and there are very few stars in the league this year. And there is a lot of ugly basketball being played in the league. I can hardly stand to watch an Ohio State game. The Columbus Masonry Union is looking for dues. I guess we'll see in the tourney if its depth or mediocrity. I honestly think its the latter.

I'm with you.

[bucksfan2]

The Big 10 is a free for all. That's the only way I can explain Michigan winning the regular season. Every team is at a very similar talent level and there are very few stars in the league this year. And there is a lot of ugly basketball being played in the league. I can hardly stand to watch an Ohio State game. The Columbus Masonry Union is looking for dues. I guess we'll see in the tourney if its depth or mediocrity. I honestly think its the latter.

I can't figure out who is good in college basketball this season. Every time I look at one team and think they are good they lose games they shouldn't. I thought MSU at the start of the season was the best, that didn't work out. I thought Syracuse was good, they have lost 2 out of 3 and probably should have lost 4 out of 5. OSU is in a free fall, UK is in a free fall, UC is in a free fall. I think Wichita St is the real deal, but how good? How many elite players have they played against this season? Florida is good, but how good is the SEC? I watch Duke play with Parker at times and he is the best player I have seen this season, but they have lost quite a few games.

Too many questions this season when it comes to this NCAA season. If I am going to pick a B1G team that is going to make waves its going to be Wisconsin. Teams like Kansas have the talent, but can they put it all together for a run? Heading into this season we heard how it was going to be the best combination of talent on the college court in a long time. When is that talent going to show up?

[Revering4Blue]

I can't figure out who is good in college basketball this season. Every time I look at one team and think they are good they lose games they shouldn't. I thought MSU at the start of the season was the best, that didn't work out. I thought Syracuse was good, they have lost 2 out of 3 and probably should have lost 4 out of 5. OSU is in a free fall, UK is in a free fall, UC is in a free fall. I think Wichita St is the real deal, but how good? How many elite players have they played against this season? Florida is good, but how good is the SEC? I watch Duke play with Parker at times and he is the best player I have seen this season, but they have lost quite a few games.

Too many questions this season when it comes to this NCAA season. If I am going to pick a B1G team that is going to make waves its going to be Wisconsin. Teams like Kansas have the talent, but can they put it all together for a run? Heading into this season we heard how it was going to be the best combination of talent on the college court in a long time. When is that talent going to show up?
All of which goes to show that for all of the talk about how the quality of College Basketball -- specifically, teams at or near the top -- was down last year and that that loads of NBA talent would translate into several better teams at the top this year was/is bunk.

A mid-major is just as likely to win it all this year as last year.

[Assembly Hall]

I understand that but injuries have kept them from the valuable time they need to play as a team. It'll be interesting to see if they improve in the next week or so. Are they a dark horse tournament team or is it a lost year?

There are many out there that picked the Spartans to win it all at the beginning of the season. If they don't make it to the FF, I am sure Izzy will say it was his most disappointing season. Right now, it is a disappointing season for Sparty.

[Slyder]

There are many out there that picked the Spartans to win it all at the beginning of the season. If they don't make it to the FF, I am sure Izzy will say it was his most disappointing season. Right now, it is a disappointing season for Sparty.

When I fill out my bracket I pretty much assume Sparty is going to the sweet 16 at least. For some reason Mich State is never an early out (2 first round losses since 2006, never less than 2 wins the other years).

[Boston Red]

I'm not sure Syracuse even deserves a #3 seed at this point. Yikes.

[Revering4Blue]

I'm not sure Syracuse even deserves a #3 seed at this point. Yikes.

In the Orange's defense, Jerami Grant didn't play and losing DaJuan Coleman for the year hurt depth up front, so they are not as good as they theoretically should be -- even if, at full strength this year, they still wouldn't be as good as last year's team.

That stated, yeah, they shouldn't lose at home to a conference botom-feeder. Thus, I agree with your statement about seeding.

[cumberlandreds]

I'm not sure Syracuse even deserves a #3 seed at this point. Yikes.

Two bad home losses makes them look really bad right now. They may indeed drop to a three seed before the season is done.

[Boston Red]

SLU is challenging Syracuse for biggest collapse by a formerly highly-ranked team.

[oregonred]

Duke lost to a bad Wake team tonight.

With a few exceptions, the college basketball product is for the most part mediocre these days. What used to be must watch regular season and conf tourney TV just isn't quite as exciting now. March Madness is still the best thing going, but college bball for whatever reason -- the one and dones, the espnization on top of oversaturation followed by a dose of overhype-zation... It just isn't quite the same as it was from the 80's into the mid 90s.

[Assembly Hall]

SLU is challenging Syracuse for biggest collapse by a formerly highly-ranked team.

That be the biggest "late season" collapse. Simply amazing.

[Slyder]

Duke lost to a bad Wake team tonight.

With a few exceptions, the college basketball product is for the most part mediocre these days. What used to be must watch regular season and conf tourney TV just isn't quite as exciting now. March Madness is still the best thing going, but college bball for whatever reason -- the one and dones, the espnization on top of oversaturation followed by a dose of overhype-zation... It just isn't quite the same as it was from the 80's into the mid 90s.

So many of the "ones and dones" has really hurt the overall product IMO. You don't see the finished product when everyone (almost literally) goes pro by the time they can buy alcohol. If the NBA really wants to help their developmental league they will put a similar 3 years out of high school before they can go pro like NFL.

[Assembly Hall]

So many of the "ones and dones" has really hurt the overall product IMO. You don't see the finished product when everyone (almost literally) goes pro by the time they can buy alcohol. If the NBA really wants to help their developmental league they will put a similar 3 years out of high school before they can go pro like NFL.

I agree, but I surmise the kids will go to Europe to cash checks?

[dabvu2498]

I'm not a Louisville fan, but I'm going to miss Russ Smith.

http://www.cardchronicle.com/2014/3/7/5481234/the-top-15-russ-smith-quotes-of-the-past-4-years

[Boston Red]

I enjoyed this Gregg Marshall nugget when asked about people that doubt his team: "Wolves do not fret over the opinions of sheep."

[New York Red]

I'm not a Louisville fan, but I'm going to miss Russ Smith.

http://www.cardchronicle.com/2014/3/7/5481234/the-top-15-russ-smith-quotes-of-the-past-4-years
That's after FOUR years at Floyd Street U.

[dougdirt]

I agree, but I surmise the kids will go to Europe to cash checks?

I would hope so. Telling an adult who is qualified that they can't work there because of their age is a joke. The guy isn't trying to be a lawyer without law school. If they can play, then let them play.

[oregonred]

I would hope so. Telling an adult who is qualified that they can't work there because of their age is a joke. The guy isn't trying to be a lawyer without law school. If they can play, then let them play.

Somehow the NFL keeps them out.

They should have a 0/3 policy. If you decide to go to school you are ineligible for the NBA Draft for 2-3 years. I don't see how that could stand legal muster, but not sure how the NFL's policy has withstood various legal challenges along the way.

[oregonred]

OSU should be at worst at #6 seed now. Possible #4-5 with a couple wins in the B1G. Frankly, I'd be happy to stay on the #6 line.

Likely Sweet 16 tops for OSU this season although I don't think they'll be a particularly fun matchup for too many teams in the tourney.

[IslandRed]

Somehow the NFL keeps them out.

They should have a 0/3 policy. If you decide to go to school you are ineligible for the NBA Draft for 2-3 years. I don't see how that could stand legal muster, but not sure how the NFL's policy has withstood various legal challenges along the way.

As with other things that wouldn't be legal if a normal industry did them (the draft itself being at the top of the list), it has to be collectively bargained with the "labor."

But the related question -- how do the owners and players get to set terms for people who aren't in the profession yet? -- has definitely come up before. IANAL, but since every sport does this, I'm assuming it's allowed under labor law if collectively bargained.

[dougdirt]

Somehow the NFL keeps them out.

They should have a 0/3 policy. If you decide to go to school you are ineligible for the NBA Draft for 2-3 years. I don't see how that could stand legal muster, but not sure how the NFL's policy has withstood various legal challenges along the way.

Has there been a guy coming out of high school that was ready to play in the NFL? I doubt it and they could probably cite injury issues.

There have been plenty of guys ready to play in the NBA out of high school.

[bucksfan2]

Has there been a guy coming out of high school that was ready to play in the NFL? I doubt it and they could probably cite injury issues.

There have been plenty of guys ready to play in the NBA out of high school.

I would argue that there aren't that many players coming out of HS who are READY for the NBA. For every LeBron, Kobe, or KG, there are a number of players who take time to develop. Too much of the NBA draft is drafting based up projection not what is going to happen in the next year or so.

[improbus]

I would hope so. Telling an adult who is qualified that they can't work there because of their age is a joke. The guy isn't trying to be a lawyer without law school. If they can play, then let them play.

Doug, you and I are sympatico on this one, but let me throw something at you and see what you and the others think.

The current system doesn't benefit the high level players nearly enough. The university gets more out of their attendance than they do. So, how can this change?

1) They can go to Europe or the D-League. I'm not sure either one of these is a good option. The D-League's image isn't good and they don't have the infrastructure to take care of the totality of an 18 year old's needs. Europe will have similar problems. I'm not sure what Europe did for Brandon Jennings. How many guys come back (even if they really make a name for themselves)?

2) The NCAA can actually admit what they are, which is a minor league, and act accordingly. What if the schools actually took that job seriously? What if they simply tried to produce the best basketball players possible, instead of having a relatively small effect on the players on the court and a reduced impact on them in the classroom? Colleges already have the infrastructure and general systems in place to make this work (Arenas, facilities, classrooms, accommodations, etc...). The kids could then enroll in the basketball track. They would be able to work on that trade year round, and the "college basketball season" would just be one aspect of it. It would produce better players and also actually provide the kids with something more than a platform to show their previously learned skills. The kids could earn some kind of salary as well. This could totally work and really wouldn't require the kind of massive change that everyone thinks. Treat them like basketball academies attached to the university.

[Boston Red]

And the 99% of college basketball players who need to earn a degree and not try to rely on basketball to earn a living? What does the basketball academy do for them?

[improbus]

And the 99% of college basketball players who need to earn a degree and not try to rely on basketball to earn a living? What does the basketball academy do for them?
The model doesn't have to apply to every school. My guess is that this would occur at the top 50 or so schools and the other schools could continue with their own model.

[dougdirt]

I would argue that there aren't that many players coming out of HS who are READY for the NBA. For every LeBron, Kobe, or KG, there are a number of players who take time to develop. Too much of the NBA draft is drafting based up projection not what is going to happen in the next year or so.

But there are guys who are. Draft those guys. What the NBA needs to do is go the MLB route. You don't declare for the draft, you simply get drafted and you can choose to sign or go to school. The NBA is trying to protect themselves from themselves because THEY messed up drafting guys that weren't ready. That's on them. There have been plenty of guys who were ready and worked out just fine.

[dougdirt]

And the 99% of college basketball players who need to earn a degree and not try to rely on basketball to earn a living? What does the basketball academy do for them?

Well a lot of them don't wind up with the degree anyways.

Pay the players colleges. Pay. The. Players.

[improbus]

And the 99% of college basketball players who need to earn a degree and not try to rely on basketball to earn a living? What does the basketball academy do for them?
This may sound like a harsh answer, but if they aren't pursuing a career in basketball, why do we give them a scholarship to play? It is a very strange transaction.

[Ohayou]

Go Wright State?!?!

[dougdirt]

This may sound like a harsh answer, but if they aren't pursuing a career in basketball, why do we give them a scholarship to play? It is a very strange transaction.

So the school can trick them into working for pennies on the dollar for the revenue they generate. Or well, at least that is the point of it today. Perhaps not the original one.

[dabvu2498]

Go Wright State?!?!

Wright State, wrong university?!?

[Red Buckeye]

Go Wright State?!?!

Go Raiders Go! I am so pumped for the championship game tomorrow night! Are you going?

[Kingspoint]

Has there been a guy coming out of high school that was ready to play in the NFL? I doubt it and they could probably cite injury issues.

There have been plenty of guys ready to play in the NBA out of high school.

Ready to play shouldn't be a reason. Ready to practice is enough. That said, nothing is legal about sports in the first place. They have their own unique set of rules. If they didn't, they couldn't survive.

[oregonred]

Has there been a guy coming out of high school that was ready to play in the NFL? I doubt it and they could probably cite injury issues.

There have been plenty of guys ready to play in the NBA out of high school.

Yes and with the year round conditioning, spring ball and such in football factory states like Florida, more than ever before there are freakish man child guys that could come in and play in the NFL right away. And dozens more each year than would be in the 2 or 3-deep on the 53-man or stashed in development teams. Positions like CB, RB, WR and maybe even DL would make an easy transition. While OL, LB and Safety being more complex and requiring vast game experience in reading formations, defenses, blocking schemes, audibles, etc. Of course, QB is unlike any position in sports so that's silliness. Cam Newton was physically ready for the NFL on Day 1, so that wouldn't have been the issue keeping him off the field.

With 1700 roster spots and a 3-3.5 year lifespan for the average player that's 500-600 new guys needed every year on the 53-man rosters. I think you'd see 40-50 high upside, high school kids a year stashed among the 1700 slots. Not much impact in year 1, but I think we'd be surprised how many year 2 guys made some noise.

Alone, from the top of this year's projected draft. Jardaveus Clowney, Marquis Lee and Sammy Watkins could have easily played in the NFL from Day 1.

[oregonred]

I don't want that to happen, but there are a handful of beasts and freaks each year that could handle the NFL physicality from Day 1.

[WMR]

But there are guys who are. Draft those guys. What the NBA needs to do is go the MLB route. You don't declare for the draft, you simply get drafted and you can choose to sign or go to school. The NBA is trying to protect themselves from themselves because THEY messed up drafting guys that weren't ready. That's on them. There have been plenty of guys who were ready and worked out just fine.

That's not happening.

[WMR]

Yes and with the year round conditioning, spring ball and such in football factory states like Florida, more than ever before there are freakish man child guys that could come in and play in the NFL right away. And dozens more each year than would be in the 2 or 3-deep on the 53-man or stashed in development teams. Positions like CB, RB, WR and maybe even DL would make an easy transition. While OL, LB and Safety being more complex and requiring vast game experience in reading formations, defenses, blocking schemes, audibles, etc. Of course, QB is unlike any position in sports so that's silliness. Cam Newton was physically ready for the NFL on Day 1, so that wouldn't have been the issue keeping him off the field.

With 1700 roster spots and a 3-3.5 year lifespan for the average player that's 500-600 new guys needed every year on the 53-man rosters. I think you'd see 40-50 high upside, high school kids a year stashed among the 1700 slots. Not much impact in year 1, but I think we'd be surprised how many year 2 guys made some noise.

Alone, from the top of this year's projected draft. Jardaveus Clowney, Marquis Lee and Sammy Watkins could have easily played in the NFL from Day 1.

Jadeveon has a brother?

[Kingspoint]

Jadeveon has a brother?

His Roman brother.

[Assembly Hall]

I love the way MLB does it, but the fact is they have pretty complex minor league system in place to develop guys right out of high school. Personally I would like to see a kid stay in school at least 2 years before he goes pro in the NBA. 3 would even be better.

[oregonred]

This thread has turned into a clown - ey show...:)

[Hoosier Red]

I would argue that there aren't that many players coming out of HS who are READY for the NBA. For every LeBron, Kobe, or KG, there are a number of players who take time to develop. Too much of the NBA draft is drafting based up projection not what is going to happen in the next year or so.

I've stated for years that forcing kids out of the draft has little to do with the players well being and much to do with the team's well being.

Even the players who "take time to develop" are doing themselves no real favors by going to school to develop.

Football is different than basketball in that 1) It would be a greater risk for injury for an "undeveloped" player to compete in practice every day against players who have added additional bulk through additional body maturation, and 2)Almost everyone on the roster is likely to play at least some in the game.

[Boston Red]

So the school can trick them into working for pennies on the dollar for the revenue they generate. Or well, at least that is the point of it today. Perhaps not the original one.

That applies to a few guys and programs perhaps. But all of those schools give scholarships to volleyball players, too. And most schools who give out scholarships do not have anyone producing any measurable revenue for the school.

I know, I know, you think that's dumb, too.

[dabvu2498]

The NBA, much less the NFL, doesn't want to scout high school kids. They like that the college experience "weeds out" a lot of kids who can't cut it.

[oregonred]

The NFL obviously benefits enormously from college football. They'd be crazy to ever change the current system.

[bucksfan2]

I've stated for years that forcing kids out of the draft has little to do with the players well being and much to do with the team's well being.

Even the players who "take time to develop" are doing themselves no real favors by going to school to develop.

Football is different than basketball in that 1) It would be a greater risk for injury for an "undeveloped" player to compete in practice every day against players who have added additional bulk through additional body maturation, and 2)Almost everyone on the roster is likely to play at least some in the game.

Football is a different animal all together. I don't think that any high school football player is ready to make the jump to the NFL. I think it takes a good 2 years of development in order to mature into a NFL ready football player. I do like the 3 year rule in college because I enjoy the college game. For every Clowney you have hundreds of other Soph's who just aren't ready.

You have rare occasions in basketball where a high school player is ready to contribute right away in the NBA. Those guys are named LeBron, Kobe, Dwight, and KG. It used to be that those high schoolers would be drafted later in the draft by teams that had a good surrounding cast. Now teams are drafting based upon potential. A guy like Jabari Parker, who is very good, may get drafted by the 76ers who are an utter cesspool right now. He will be forced to carry a team while he also tries to develop.

There are also players in college basketball who just don't belong. It doesn't mean they are ready, just they don't want to be in the college game. I don't think the college game would suffer without those guys. I think the NBA should develop a MLB rule where you can come right out of high school or wait 3 years. Give a guy a chance to bypass college but know there is a choice if he enters college.

[WMR]

The guys who are "NFL ready" after a season or two might actually be better served bypassing the collegiate system after they prove their "worthiness" and wait to be drafted while working with professional trainers/football gurus etc. Jadeveon Clowney, for instance, did nothing but hurt himself this past season playing for USCjr while also exposing his body to possible serious injury risk. (Marcus Lattimore??!!)

[bucksfan2]

The guys who are "NFL ready" after a season or two might actually be better served bypassing the collegiate system after they prove their "worthiness" and wait to be drafted while working with professional trainers/football gurus etc. Jadeveon Clowney, for instance, did nothing but hurt himself this past season playing for USCjr while also exposing his body to possible serious injury risk. (Marcus Lattimore??!!)

How did Clowney hurt himself? He is still projected to be a top 1-3 pick. He had more of a spotlight on him this season but he still is going to get paid like he would after his soph year.

As a UK fan, how many of those one and doners do you think were ready to contribute at the NBA level day one?

[Hoosier Red]

Football is a different animal all together. I don't think that any high school football player is ready to make the jump to the NFL. I think it takes a good 2 years of development in order to mature into a NFL ready football player. I do like the 3 year rule in college because I enjoy the college game. For every Clowney you have hundreds of other Soph's who just aren't ready.

You have rare occasions in basketball where a high school player is ready to contribute right away in the NBA. Those guys are named LeBron, Kobe, Dwight, and KG. It used to be that those high schoolers would be drafted later in the draft by teams that had a good surrounding cast. Now teams are drafting based upon potential. A guy like Jabari Parker, who is very good, may get drafted by the 76ers who are an utter cesspool right now. He will be forced to carry a team while he also tries to develop.

There are also players in college basketball who just don't belong. It doesn't mean they are ready, just they don't want to be in the college game. I don't think the college game would suffer without those guys. I think the NBA should develop a MLB rule where you can come right out of high school or wait 3 years. Give a guy a chance to bypass college but know there is a choice if he enters college.

But that just shows why bad teams remain bad. It's really not going to hamper Parker in any way. He'll play for the 76ers and 3 years from now will get a big contract to leave the team.

[WMR]

How did Clowney hurt himself? He is still projected to be a top 1-3 pick. He had more of a spotlight on him this season but he still is going to get paid like he would after his soph year.

As a UK fan, how many of those one and doners do you think were ready to contribute at the NBA level day one?

He was the consensus #1 pick no matter what heading into this season. This season exposed a couple chinks in his armor and that's now no longer a certainty. He's still going to get paid but not with the same certainty that he had after his soph season. He also exposed himself to a complete season of possible injury.

Marcus Lattimore is the horror story that Clowney could have been...


After one year of college...
John Wall- Yep
DCuz- Yep
A. Davis- Uhh yep
Kanter- yep
Bledsoe- yep
MKG- Yep although has struggled some
B. Knight- Yep
Teague- nope
Noel- Yep, when healthy
A. Goodwin- nope
Orton- Nope

Difficult to answer whether they would've been ready without that extra year of growth, strength, and maturity. Wall, Cuz, and Davis are the only ones I would answer definitively yes to that question.

[improbus]

I guess I see the potential of the college system and I'm not sure why we are so hesitant to change it for the better. I'm not sure why Ohio State, Alabama, and UCLA need to play by the same rules as Ohio University, UAB, and Santa Clara. I'm not sure why we can't have better benefits for the kids who bring in massive amounts of revenue while still helping kids who don't. Most things aren't all or nothing and college sports doesn't need to be either.

[RedTeamGo!]

I guess I see the potential of the college system and I'm not sure why we are so hesitant to change it for the better. I'm not sure why Ohio State, Alabama, and UCLA need to play by the same rules as Ohio University, UAB, and Santa Clara. I'm not sure why we can't have better benefits for the kids who bring in massive amounts of revenue while still helping kids who don't. Most things aren't all or nothing and college sports doesn't need to be either.

A great player would never go to a smaller school under this scenario.