Offseason Discussion

[RedlegJ]

Since there isn't any offseason discussion in SD, I figured I'd start one up while I wait on my ORG access. Several things need to happen this winter.

1) New manager of course. Personally I'm all for Bryan Price. There aren't many choices out there. But after seeing the Arroyo and Lecure quotes on Price, I like him to be the new manager. He's also always been for Chapman starting, so maybe we'll give that one more shot.

2) Brandon Phillips has always been one of my favorite players but maybe its just time for him to go. I love him, but that contract is terrible and it will really hurt us down the road and I'm not looking forward to being irrelevant again.

3) Maybe Homer could be traded, who knows? Texas is definitely a team I'd call and have some discussions with, especially about Profar. But I'm not sure if we'll see this one happen.

4) We need a power righty in the order. Maybe Ludwick could be that guy again but I'm just not seeing it. I have no clue what is out there for us to look at so..

5) Choo. He was awesome. Is it worth signing him for 5 years and over 100 mil? I don't know, thats for Walt to decide. Of course for this to happen, Phillips would need to be traded.

6) The bench. Our bench was horrible. I don't know who to get but he's gotta be better than Izturis.

[RedlegJake]

Manager is really almost an after thought to me with all the other things needed.

BP - I think he is gone, will be interesting to see what comes back or if they end up moving him for little. LA-NYY-Atl are all being linked in rumors, so is a crazy 3 way suggestion with TB and the Yanks (Cingrani, BP, Ludwick gone, David Price here). That one seems too lopsided against the Reds. Leaves holes in LF, 2B and trades 5 yrs of Cingrani for 2 yrs of Price. Uggla and a prospect? Doesn't excite me either.

If Phillips is gone what happens to 2b? HRod sure isn't a viable option. Guerrero isn't going to happen, imo.

That leaves free agents or a trade to cover 2B. The FA list is not much after Cano. Nick Punto? Mark Ellis? Omar Infante and pay for a career year? Uggla and a good prospect is looking better.

Homer to Texas for Profar could help a lot here. Of course, that means finding another starter if Arroyo is gone, too (almost certainly). It also would mean they can trade BP without worrying about replacing him. Maybe they could work out a deal with LA for Kemp or Ethier and some dollars coming back. That would add the power bat.

That would also certainly eliminate a chance of signing Choo, though. Hamilton in CF?

Just some thoughts at this early point. Three huge keys to the off season: Do they sign Choo? Arroyo back or gone? BP traded and for what? Within a few days of the WS ending we'll know their intention with Arroyo, and it won't take long to see if they are seriously in the running for Choo or not.

[RedlegJ]

You're right, if we can trade Phillips and then Homer for Profar we would be set. All we would need is a starter.

The Phillips to Atlanta for Uggla and a top prospect is sort of growing on me. I checked out their top prospects and none really stood out. So I'm not sure who we would be wanting from them.

[RedlegJake]

What do you think about the catching spot? I'm not sold on Mesoraco. He has a hole in his swing a good pitcher can toss a basketball through. He is one guy a new batting coach might help. I think Hanigan can rebound but he was always a no power some OBP defense first guy. If he stays it should be as a backup, no more playing 2/3ds of the time.

I wouldn't call catcher a must fix but if Walt found a way to upgrade one of these guys offense I wouldn't complain either...

[Lewdog]

Cozart to 2nd and Hamilton back to SS then resign Choo? Personally I don't like the idea of getting rid of Phillips, he brings flare to the dug out. I'd like to bring in McCann or Saltalamacchia for catching. David Price would be nice but he about to get paid and Tampa has worn him out. I'd prefer to stick with the young staff and continue to create homegrown talent.

[RedlegJ]

What do you think about the catching spot? I'm not sold on Mesoraco. He has a hole in his swing a good pitcher can toss a basketball through. He is one guy a new batting coach might help. I think Hanigan can rebound but he was always a no power some OBP defense first guy. If he stays it should be as a backup, no more playing 2/3ds of the time.

I wouldn't call catcher a must fix but if Walt found a way to upgrade one of these guys offense I wouldn't complain either...

To be honest, I can't stand Hanigan back there. He works with the pitchers well, blah blah blah. He can't hit his way out of a wet sack. Frustrates the hell out of me to watch him hit. But I seriously don't see them doing anything at catcher. If they did, some FA options are...

Jared Salty: He made 4.5 this year and had a great year so he'll probably be too expensive.

AJ Pierzynski: He also had a good year but he's getting older and he'll cost even more than salty.

Brian McCann: don't know why I'm listing him.. WAY too expensive

Carlos Ruiz: only played 92 games this year. Made 5 million.

[MoneyInTheBank]

Cozart to 2nd and Hamilton back to SS then resign Choo? Personally I don't like the idea of getting rid of Phillips, he brings flare to the dug out. I'd like to bring in McCann or Saltalamacchia for catching. David Price would be nice but he about to get paid and Tampa has worn him out. I'd prefer to stick with the young staff and continue to create homegrown talent.

I think you'd be more likely to see Hamilton at 2nd than Cozart. Worth exploring though

[RedsBrick]

The thought of Uggla for BP nauseates me a little bit.

In 8 major league season's, Uggla's BA has been above .250 only 3 times...a whopping .179 last year, when he played so poorly the Braves left him off the playoff roster.

His OPS last season was .671 and has been well below .800 the past three years.

Oh, and he's a year older than Phillips.

If they pull the trigger on a trade for Uggla I hope it's because the Braves are sending along the dollars for the remainder of his contract, a top two prospect in the Braves' organization and the Reds are only considering him as a bench player.

[scotly50]

The thought of Uggla for BP nauseates me a little bit.

In 8 major league season's, Uggla's BA has been above .250 only 3 times...a whopping .179 last year, when he played so poorly the Braves left him off the playoff roster.

His OPS last season was .671 and has been well below .800 the past three years.

Oh, and he's a year older than Phillips.

If they pull the trigger on a trade for Uggla I hope it's because the Braves are sending along the dollars for the remainder of his contract, a top two prospect in the Braves' organization and the Reds are only considering him as a bench player.

I agree. Surely they would not consider this trade.

[RedlegJake]

I agree. Surely they would not consider this trade.

Depends on how determined Cast is to move BP. Owners can be bullheaded. I agree Uggla is a poor target although his power at GABP is intriguing he has been on a slide for three years and he would be another swing and miss type hitter that the Reds lineup is full of already outside of Votto and Choo. Uggla does walk though. I could see a rebound offensively but that defense of his is pretty brutal. I could also see a complete flop. As I said in another thread - its a gamble I really don't want.

[bounty37h]

You're right, if we can trade Phillips and then Homer for Profar we would be set. All we would need is a starter.

The Phillips to Atlanta for Uggla and a top prospect is sort of growing on me. I checked out their top prospects and none really stood out. So I'm not sure who we would be wanting from them.

Ugh, no to Uggla.

[Dwarftree]

I would not trade BP. I know his contract is not the best one. I know his offensive numerbs have been declining. But you are talking about one of the faces of the franchises here. A face that draws spectators and sells jerseys. Plus i think letting him bat in the #2 hole on a regular basis, his numbers will go up again. And he is one of the best defense 2nd basman (if not the best). I would not trade him.

What i really hope for, apart from the signing of Price as the new guy on the helmet, that Walt gets rid of Jacoby. Please. Please. Please. I am sooo tired of seeing these horrible plate approaches.

[RedlegJ]

Obviously the Braves would have to pay some of Uggla's contract if we took him. Hopefully they'd take on at least half of it. Have any of you looked at their top prospects? Who stands out?

[RedlegJ]

The Dodgers just signed Alexander Guerrero to a 4 year, 28 million dollar deal. So the Reds won't be signing him and now the Dodgers are out as a trade partner for Phillips.

[RedlegJ]

Jon Heyman reporting that Lincecum turned down a 2 year deal from the Giants. He is looking for a short deal and will take a 1 year deal. He would obviously cost too much for the Reds, right?

[RedlegJake]

Lincecum, not necessarily - he'd be looking for a one year deal to re prove himself so it wouldn't be cheap but not exorbitant either. As a bridge to Stephenson he'd be nice, especially if they moved Bailey in a deal for a bat. Plus, you could make him a QO and get a draft pick if he had a good year. Not likely to happen but it wouldn't be a stretch either.

[RedlegJake]

At least the Guerrero talk can end. That leaves Texas and the Yanks for Cano. The loser and Atlanta are the suitors for BP most likely.

[Reds&BuckeyeGuy]

You're right, if we can trade Phillips and then Homer for Profar we would be set. All we would need is a starter.

The Phillips to Atlanta for Uggla and a top prospect is sort of growing on me. I checked out their top prospects and none really stood out. So I'm not sure who we would be wanting from them.

I don't want to get Uggla, no thanks. I don't want another locker room cancer. I know it is almost certain that BP is gone, but I seriously don't see Uggla as being a person they are pursuing. They need high character guys who want to prove themselves IMO.

[Reds&BuckeyeGuy]

What do you think about the catching spot? I'm not sold on Mesoraco. He has a hole in his swing a good pitcher can toss a basketball through. He is one guy a new batting coach might help. I think Hanigan can rebound but he was always a no power some OBP defense first guy. If he stays it should be as a backup, no more playing 2/3ds of the time.

I wouldn't call catcher a must fix but if Walt found a way to upgrade one of these guys offense I wouldn't complain either...

I personally have always thought that catcher was the second most important position in baseball. It never hurts to have two good catchers, hopefully one of them elite and other would be solid with good game control. So Mesoraco would be ok with me as long as they can fix his bat because he is a good catcher, just not a very good batter.

[Reds&BuckeyeGuy]

At least the Guerrero talk can end. That leaves Texas and the Yanks for Cano. The loser and Atlanta are the suitors for BP most likely.

Thank god. I really didn't want him anyways. Did you?

[RedlegJake]

As for Atlanta prospects I'd be intrigued by a few - Joey Terdoslavich (OF), Jose Peraza (SS), Aaron Northcroft (RHP), JR Graham (RHP), Lucas Sims (RHP) or Victor Caratini (C)

Caratini and Peraza are both young 20 and 19 respectively and would be future considerations but are both good. Peraza is a true SS and should stick there. Terdoslavich is 24 and ready if he is going to be - good minor league numbers but didn't exactly light it up when he came up but only 92 PAs. Northcraft and Graham are both near ML ready. Lucas Sims is another 19 year old but I'd love to have him for the future. Lefty with a real live arm.

Maybe one ready to go prospect and one for the future if the Braves don't want to eat any salary. Uggla, Northcraft and Peraza - adds a future SS to our system. Truthfully, though, I'm not enamored with Graham, Northcraft or Terdoslavich - the best prospects that they are likely to let go of are in the lower leagues.

[DanielPlainview]

Given the organization is openly shopping him and given BP's love for social media.....has he not spoken of this at all?

[Alpha Zero]

With Guerrero now off the market, I'd revise my strategy slightly. Here's my take:

How about hooking up with the Orioles for a trade? I think they're looking for a 2B. Maybe Brandon Phillips for Nick Markakis, Eduardo Rodriguez, and $4 million?

Markakis is coming off a down year and has been up and down for his whole career. He makes $4 million more than Phillips in 2014, which is why I have the Orioles kicking in that cash to make the impact to both teams' payrolls negligible. The good thing about Markakis is that he gets on base when he's right, and, more importantly, he's off the books after next season. I also have the Orioles kicking in Eduardo Rodriguez. He's a decent left handed SP prospect, but he's still at least a year away from the bigs.

I think I'd then look to trade Bailey to the Rangers for Martin Perez, Joey Butler, and Rougned Odor. Perez isn't as good as Bailey, but he's under team control for a while and can step in immediately to fill out the rotation. Butler isn't a big power guy for a corner OF and is old for a prospect, but he's a RH OBP machine. He could take over LF once the Ludwick/Markakis platoon is off the books in 2015, and he immediately adds depth in case of injury in 2014. Odor is a still a ways away, but he could wind up being an elite level 2B prospect. I think this deal might hinge on Texas being able to sign Bailey to an extension since they'd be giving up a lot, but I think Bailey would definitely be receptive to a long term deal with a club in his home state.

Finally, I'd use the money saved by dealing Bailey to sign Omar Infante and David Dejesus. Infante can play a solid 2B and will probably hit for good average. He isn't especially flashy and his other offensive skills leave something to be desired, but he gets the job done. Dejesus can back up all 3 OF positions and is a pretty good insurance policy in case Hamilton needs more seasoning.

With these moves, the Reds would go into 2014 with the following lineup:

CF: Hamilton/Dejesus
2B: Infante
1B: Votto
RF: Bruce
3B: Frazier
LF: Markakis/Ludwick
C: Mesoraco
SS: Cozart

SP: Latos
SP: Cueto
SP: Cingrani
SP: Perez
SP: Leake

In 2015, Joey Butler replaces Markakis and hits in the second spot in the order. Both Eduardo Rodriguez and Robert Stephenson may also be ready to compete for rotation spots in 2015. This keeps the SP pipeline primed, which will hopefully translate into more post season appearances (and maybe even victories) over the next couple of years.

Thoughts?

[RedlegJ]

Given the organization is openly shopping him and given BP's love for social media.....has he not spoken of this at all?

This is the one thing that I've been waiting on. I follow him on twitter but he hasn't said anything since this all came out.

[BungleBengals]

Thoughts?

http://www.redreporter.com/2013/10/21/4862488/one-fewer-place-for-brandon-phillips-to-land

Article lays out the 3 best teams to try to trade for BP

1.) Braves - Uggla and Pastornicky

2.) Jonathan Schnoop or Mike Wright

3.) Nick Castellanos or Devon Travis and Tyler Collins

While I am no expert by any means for minor league prospects. I think Detroit's potential offer would fit us best. Castellanos is only 21 and can hit pretty well already. He has experience in both OF and 3B.

In a potential trade with Detroit I would trade BP for Castellanos plus whatever cash or prospects would be needed to even things out. Maybe try to send them Ludwick too since they need an OF.

If we cannot find an adequate 2B fill in for BP, then move Frazier to 2B and Castellanos to 3B. Resign Choo with the saving from BP trade.

Red Reporter also mentions the Blue Jays too. I read that they are interested in a 2B, C, and LF. I would try to package BP and Hanigan together with maybe an OF prospect like Yorman to try to aquire Bautista. He easily answers the RH power bat that we need in our lineup.

[RedlegJ]

Bryan Price to be named Reds manager. Not official but done deal. I like it.

[RedlegJ]

Who do you guys think will be the new pitching and hitting coaches?

[Lewdog]

I'd like to see them getting Terry Pendleton from the Braves to be the hitting coach. Why can't Billy Hatcher step into that role and then get a new base coach? The Reds were horrible on the bases this past year so maybe bring in a guy that was great at running the bases and also a great base stealer to coach?

I think Jose Rijo would be a great pitching coach for the Reds for a variety of reasons, but most importantly he is bi-lingual. :D

[RedlegJake]

Brandon Phillips for Nick Markakis, Eduardo Rodriguez, and $4 million? I also have the Orioles kicking in Eduardo Rodriguez. He's a decent left handed SP prospect, but he's still at least a year away from the bigs.

Bailey to the Rangers for Martin Perez, Joey Butler, and Rougned Odor.

Finally sign Omar Infante and David Dejesus.

You might have to kick in a prospect to the Orioles to even up the talent - say El Hajj Muhammed - but I like the deal. Hajj is a good relief prospect but if you can get a LH SP prospect back along with Markakis - heck yeah. Then you could add Soto to the Rangers deal to make 3 for 1 a bit more even looking. Not that Soto adds all that much actually but call it a sweetener. Before looking at DeJesus, however, I'd see if Oakland had any interest in moving Coco Crisp and if Hi-C and say Sharky might pull that off (remember we added a SP prospect in the Baltimore deal). One year of Crisp to bridge Billy Hamilton into the majors would be a huge help in CF and he is just 7.5 mil. Not outlandish with BP and Bailey gone and 4 mil back from the O's.

[RedlegJake]

Who do you guys think will be the new pitching and hitting coaches?

Hitting coach - no clue at all. Except it won't be Jacoby. Good enough for me.

Pitching coach - Mack Jenkins is the front runner but rumor has it Jenkins is a great film spotter but would be over his head as the actual coach. That from a RZer with some inside knowledge of these guys (not me). I trust this opinion but am waiting to see what Price does - promote his assistant or go to a new guy? Power seems next in line but the same source says Power is a hot mess, too. Which I've seen elsewhere, too, over the years (little snippets read here and there that Power is not all that well regarded by many). The pitching coach situation could be interesting then.

[RedlegJ]

Hopefully some questions are answered in the press conference at 3 today

[Old school 1983]

Just an idea off the top of my head but Phillips bailey and Frazier to Texas for profar and kinsler?

[RedlegJ]

Just an idea off the top of my head but Phillips bailey and Frazier to Texas for profar and kinsler?

The reds would never do that

[Lewdog]

Just an idea off the top of my head but Phillips bailey and Frazier to Texas for profar and kinsler?

Isn't Kinsler's contract an insane amount? He's already 31 and has 4 more years on his contract with a 5th year that has a $5 million buy out. Phillips is one year older, but has one year less on his contract which is actually less than Kinsler's.

Uggla is 33, a year older than Phillips, makes about the same money as Phillips but is only under contract for two more years.

Bautista would fill the hole in left field with a trade but he is 33 and under contract only two more years at $14 million per. Plus if this year is any indication, Bautista is on the downswing of his career.

Personally I am against bringing in these 30+ year old guys making $10 million+ a year. Markakis is 29 but his contract is actually more than Phillips and he is under contract two more years.

Nate Mclouth is a free agent, BUT he is a lefty.

A guy I like the price of, plus his salary is Ryan Rayburn on the Indians. The Indians and Reds seem to have a good relationship when it comes to trades...

Could Mark Trumbo play left field? He is an arbitration guy next year but only 27 years old.

I'm going to have to do some more research but this is what I have so far.

[RedlegJake]

Isn't Kinsler's contract an insane amount? He's already 31 and has 4 more years on his contract with a 5th year that has a $5 million buy out. Phillips is one year older, but has one year less on his contract which is actually less than Kinsler's.

16-16-14-11-12 or 5mil buyout. So yes, Kinsler would be MORE expensive than BP and no less likely to fade - more so, imo


Uggla is 33, a year older than Phillips, makes about the same money as Phillips but is only under contract for two more years.

And compared to Kinsler he has the possiblility at least of a lot more pop, especially at GABP, plus he does draw a lot of walks and in his best years has had good OBPs - plus you'd get an additional prospect in this deal BUT the pitchers would hate what he'd do to the defense behind them...


Bautista would fill the hole in left field with a trade but he is 33 and under contract only two more years at $14 million per. Plus if this year is any indication, Bautista is on the downswing of his career.
Bautista would look so good in left, though...


Personally I am against bringing in these 30+ year old guys making $10 million+ a year. Markakis is 29 but his contract is actually more than Phillips and he is under contract two more years.

I'm against handing out these $10 million plus a year multi year deals to over 30 ballplayers in the first place. Then they wouldn't have the headache of trying to find a trade partner for one....


Nate Mclouth is a free agent, BUT he is a lefty. If he is replacing Choo in CF its lefty for lefty. With Hi-C a righty, BH or Robinson, switchies as subs. Problem?


A guy I like the price of, plus his salary is Ryan Rayburn on the Indians. The Indians and Reds seem to have a good relationship when it comes to trades...
Hi-C and a prospect? Rayburn is an older 4th OFer but better than Heisey but could a second tier prospect (Muhammed/Manno/Parker Frazier) added be enough to pry him away? I really like this guy, too.


Could Mark Trumbo play left field? He is an arbitration guy next year but only 27 years old.
The guy has a .299 lifetime OBP. Yeah I know - prodigious power but he doesn't walk and strikes out a ton, low average. Poor defense. Call me crazy but I think I'd rather have Ludwick if Trumbo is my other option.


I'm going to have to do some more research but this is what I have so far.
Keep it rolling.

[Lewdog]

It's actually pretty hard to find guys worth filling the spot in left field because so many of them are left handed, and we all know the Reds already have enough of those.

I do like this Avisail Garcia on the White Sox. He is only 22 and right handed. If he can learn some more patience at the plate and get his OBP up he'd be perfect.

[RedlegJ]

After seeing Walt's comments, it seems he's going to make a pretty good offer to try and keep Choo.

[RedlegJ]

I just can't help but think about how a 100 mil dollar deal could really hurt this teams future. I guess trading Phillips might be the only way Choo comes back. Unless he really likes it here and takes somewhat of a discount or shorter deal. Who knows, we'll see.

[RedlegJ]

Check this out...

http://blogs.thescore.com/djf/2013/10/21/silly-as-it-may-be-bautista-trade-talk-isnt-stopping/

This guy says the odds of Bautista being traded on a scale of 1-10 is 7. He talks about the Reds as a possible fit. He suggests Bautista for Homer and Phillips.

Homer is in his last year and Phillips is owed 50 million over the next 4 years.
Bautista is making 14 million each of the next two years so overall it saves the Reds 21 million, without even counting Bailey.

His slash last year in 118 games was .259/.358/.498/.856 with 28 homers and 73 RBI. His WAR was 4.1. Thats not a full season and I would still love that in left field. Imagine him behind votto and at GABP.

Yes, this leaves a whole at second and a starter short if Bronson leaves but if we could address those issues, would you make this trade?

[Lewdog]

Check this out...

http://blogs.thescore.com/djf/2013/10/21/silly-as-it-may-be-bautista-trade-talk-isnt-stopping/

This guy says the odds of Bautista being traded on a scale of 1-10 is 7. He talks about the Reds as a possible fit. He suggests Bautista for Homer and Phillips.

Homer is in his last year and Phillips is owed 50 million over the next 4 years.
Bautista is making 14 million each of the next two years so overall it saves the Reds 21 million, without even counting Bailey.

His slash last year in 118 games was .259/.358/.498/.856 with 28 homers and 73 RBI. His WAR was 4.1. Thats not a full season and I would still love that in left field. Imagine him behind votto and at GABP.

Yes, this leaves a whole at second and a starter short if Bronson leaves but if we could address those issues, would you make this trade?

No way, the gap it would leave defensively doesn't even out the amount of runs he would bring to the team verses the number of runs that would be given up. Phillips defense has bailed out pitchers time and time again and stopped other teams from having big scoring innings.

I'd trade them Bailey and Soto for Bautista.

[RedlegJ]

Bailey and Soto?? Really? They would laugh at you. You're overvaluing BP's defense. His fielding percentage last year was .987... The rest of the league's average fielding percentage at second base?... .984

[Lewdog]

Bailey and Soto?? Really? They would laugh at you. You're overvaluing BP's defense. His fielding percentage last year was .987... The rest of the league's average fielding percentage at second base?... .984

So he had one bad year? If you watch Red's games, on different networks, and sports shows, it's almost unanimous that Phillips is regarded as the best defensive second baseman in MLB. I think you are undervaluing Soto. He is still only 24. In 2011 in only 102 games he hit 30 homers for Double A. The guy has pop in his bat.

[RedlegJ]

So he had one bad year? If you watch Red's games, on different networks, and sports shows, it's almost unanimous that Phillips is regarded as the best defensive second baseman in MLB. I think you are undervaluing Soto. He is still only 24. In 2011 in only 102 games he hit 30 homers for Double A. The guy has pop in his bat.

One bad year? His career percentage is .988... .001 different...

[Lewdog]

One bad year? His career percentage is .988... .001 different...

..and he has won how many gold gloves? Plus you have to take into count how many outs he has made on plays that would have normally been hits if it was someone else out there. Seriously, you don't think Phillips is a phenomenal second baseman defensively?

[RedlegJ]

..and he has won how many gold gloves? Plus you have to take into count how many outs he has made on plays that would have normally been hits if it was someone else out there. Seriously, you don't think Phillips is a phenomenal second baseman defensively?

Yes I do. I love BP but offense>defense. I'd rather have an average second baseman with the same offensive numbers as Phillips if it means bringing in a bat like Bautista.

[Ladeda]

I'd trade them Bailey and Soto for Bautista.


The Reds will not be trading for a LF. Let alone one who is 33 years old, and will be 34 years old next season in Bautista. The Reds won't give up a valuable trading chip for that. I the Reds move Bailey, they need younger prospects in return, not expensive veterans. The Reds don't have much room to increase their salary, and they still need to sign Latos and Cueto/Bailey longterm.

The real reason to not resign Choo or trade for a LF is 3 fold.

1.) It's a strong draft next year, so the extra pick will help when Choo signs elsewhere. (The Reds should make a QO for Choo)

2.) The Reds have Ludwick signed for next year and $9mm in 2015 with a $4.5mm buyout. So buy him out for $4.5mm or pay the additional $4.5mm to keep him. He will be around (likely) for 2 years.

3.) Phillip Ervin and Jesse Winker. Ervin came out like gangbusters last year after the Reds drafted him in the 1st round. He will have @ least a B+ grade by Sickels when Sickels profiles the Reds top 20 prospects for 2014.

Ervin has the potential to be in the majors by the end of 2015, but definitely @ the start of 2016 to replace Ludwick in LF.

The Reds only have 2 decent hitting prospects, and they are both OF's. THe Reds aren't going to sign someone that will block them, considering how Hamilton and Bruce will be around for a while to occupy the 2 other OF spots.

[RedlegJ]

I'd trade them Bailey and Soto for Bautista.



The Reds will not be trading for a LF. Let alone one who is 33 years old, and will be 34 years old next season in Bautista. The Reds won't give up a valuable trading chip for that. I the Reds move Bailey, they need younger prospects in return, not expensive veterans. The Reds don't have much room to increase their salary, and they still need to sign Latos and Cueto/Bailey longterm.

The real reason to not resign Choo or trade for a LF is 3 fold.

1.) It's a strong draft next year, so the extra pick will help when Choo signs elsewhere. (The Reds should make a QO for Choo)

2.) The Reds have Ludwick signed for next year and $9mm in 2015 with a $4.5mm buyout. So buy him out for $4.5mm or pay the additional $4.5mm to keep him. He will be around (likely) for 2 years.

3.) Phillip Ervin and Jesse Winker. Ervin came out like gangbusters last year after the Reds drafted him in the 1st round. He will have @ least a B+ grade by Sickels when Sickels profiles the Reds top 20 prospects for 2014.

Ervin has the potential to be in the majors by the end of 2015, but definitely @ the start of 2016 to replace Ludwick in LF.

The Reds only have 2 decent hitting prospects, and they are both OF's. THe Reds aren't going to sign someone that will block them, considering how Hamilton and Bruce will be around for a while to occupy the 2 other OF spots.

Sending Phillips for Bautista saves 21 million overall. Bautista would only be here through 2015...

[SlimJim11]

Plus you have to take into count how many outs he has made on plays that would have normally been hits

Plus you have to take into account how many routine plays he tries to turn into gold glove plays to entertain the crowd!

[MoneyInTheBank]

Plus you have to take into account how many routine plays he tries to turn into gold glove plays to entertain the crowd!

You can't put a price tag on swag

[RedlegJake]

I'd trade them Bailey and Soto for Bautista.



The Reds will not be trading for a LF. Let alone one who is 33 years old, and will be 34 years old next season in Bautista. The Reds won't give up a valuable trading chip for that. I the Reds move Bailey, they need younger prospects in return, not expensive veterans. The Reds don't have much room to increase their salary, and they still need to sign Latos and Cueto/Bailey longterm.

The real reason to not resign Choo or trade for a LF is 3 fold.

1.) It's a strong draft next year, so the extra pick will help when Choo signs elsewhere. (The Reds should make a QO for Choo)

2.) The Reds have Ludwick signed for next year and $9mm in 2015 with a $4.5mm buyout. So buy him out for $4.5mm or pay the additional $4.5mm to keep him. He will be around (likely) for 2 years.

3.) Phillip Ervin and Jesse Winker. Ervin came out like gangbusters last year after the Reds drafted him in the 1st round. He will have @ least a B+ grade by Sickels when Sickels profiles the Reds top 20 prospects for 2014.

Ervin has the potential to be in the majors by the end of 2015, but definitely @ the start of 2016 to replace Ludwick in LF.

The Reds only have 2 decent hitting prospects, and they are both OF's. THe Reds aren't going to sign someone that will block them, considering how Hamilton and Bruce will be around for a while to occupy the 2 other OF spots.


Sending Phillips for Bautista saves 21 million overall. Bautista would only be here through 2015...

You're also forgetting YRod - look it up. He is still young for his level (and has been at every level) and has come on like gangbusters. He is tearing it up in Arizona. YRod has arrived on the prospect chart with Winker and Ervin. Then add Hamilton. 4 outfield prospects. Why trade for a guy with two years left? Well, if they can't sign Choo it is still two years before these guys are really ready for prime time, except Hamilton, perhaps, but he is a different breed - not the slugger we're talking about here. 2015 could then allow some PT play for Winker/Ervin/YRod or September callups and the best stay/one or two possibly dealt to fill holes, maybe one fails. I'm not saying Bautista is the best trade idea possible (much better for BP than for Bailey, imo) but it's not a bad one either.

[Lewdog]

Haha I'm so confused. I was the one that made the idea of Bailey and Soto for Bautista and quoting has gotten so messed up I can't understand some of the posts after that! :eek:

[RedlegJake]

Haha I'm so confused. I was the one that made the idea of Bailey and Soto for Bautista and quoting has gotten so messed up I can't understand some of the posts after that! :eek:

Tried to fix the erroneous quoting- you are right - it was confusing.

[Ron Delancey]

What about dealing Phillips/Cueto to Toronto for Bautista/prospect? That forces us to move Chapman to the rotation, but will free up space to resign Choo and possibly Bailey? It leaves us without a 2nd baseman, but I honestly believe we can find a much cheaper option at 2B..We might not get the 100 RBIs from him, and he won't be as flashy with the glove, but we can find a solid replacement that would bat 7th or 8th in our lineup and can place respectable defense.

[SlimJim11]

Not on board with trading Cueto. There is no guarantee Chapman works out in the rotation if he is moved there. It's also not likely the entire rotation will stay healthy all season. Since it seems Arroyo will be gone, I'd be worried to give up any of the other starters.

[RedlegJ]

@LanceMcAlister: Joey Votto checks in to discuss Bryan Price tonight at 6:10 on Sports Talk #Reds

[Old school 1983]

The Reds will not be trading for a LF. Let alone one who is 33 years old, and will be 34 years old next season in Bautista. The Reds won't give up a valuable trading chip for that. I the Reds move Bailey, they need younger prospects in return, not expensive veterans. The Reds don't have much room to increase their salary, and they still need to sign Latos and Cueto/Bailey longterm.

The real reason to not resign Choo or trade for a LF is 3 fold.

1.) It's a strong draft next year, so the extra pick will help when Choo signs elsewhere. (The Reds should make a QO for Choo)

2.) The Reds have Ludwick signed for next year and $9mm in 2015 with a $4.5mm buyout. So buy him out for $4.5mm or pay the additional $4.5mm to keep him. He will be around (likely) for 2 years.

3.) Phillip Ervin and Jesse Winker. Ervin came out like gangbusters last year after the Reds drafted him in the 1st round. He will have @ least a B+ grade by Sickels when Sickels profiles the Reds top 20 prospects for 2014.

Ervin has the potential to be in the majors by the end of 2015, but definitely @ the start of 2016 to replace Ludwick in LF.

The Reds only have 2 decent hitting prospects, and they are both OF's. THe Reds aren't going to sign someone that will block them, considering how Hamilton and Bruce will be around for a while to occupy the 2 other OF spots.

I agree with your line of thinking especially on Ervin and Winker but I think Bautista could be worth looking into. Not only does he have outfield experience, he had also played 3b. The jays are said to be looking for second base help, and all signs point to Phillips being on the block. The reds are looking for a right handed power bat to fill a position of need like LF and moreso 3b. If a deal could be made where Bautista and Phillips are the main pieces, it may give each club a part they are looking for.

[mth123]

With Guerrero now off the market, I'd revise my strategy slightly. Here's my take:

How about hooking up with the Orioles for a trade? I think they're looking for a 2B. Maybe Brandon Phillips for Nick Markakis, Eduardo Rodriguez, and $4 million?

Markakis is coming off a down year and has been up and down for his whole career. He makes $4 million more than Phillips in 2014, which is why I have the Orioles kicking in that cash to make the impact to both teams' payrolls negligible. The good thing about Markakis is that he gets on base when he's right, and, more importantly, he's off the books after next season. I also have the Orioles kicking in Eduardo Rodriguez. He's a decent left handed SP prospect, but he's still at least a year away from the bigs.

I think I'd then look to trade Bailey to the Rangers for Martin Perez, Joey Butler, and Rougned Odor. Perez isn't as good as Bailey, but he's under team control for a while and can step in immediately to fill out the rotation. Butler isn't a big power guy for a corner OF and is old for a prospect, but he's a RH OBP machine. He could take over LF once the Ludwick/Markakis platoon is off the books in 2015, and he immediately adds depth in case of injury in 2014. Odor is a still a ways away, but he could wind up being an elite level 2B prospect. I think this deal might hinge on Texas being able to sign Bailey to an extension since they'd be giving up a lot, but I think Bailey would definitely be receptive to a long term deal with a club in his home state.

Finally, I'd use the money saved by dealing Bailey to sign Omar Infante and David Dejesus. Infante can play a solid 2B and will probably hit for good average. He isn't especially flashy and his other offensive skills leave something to be desired, but he gets the job done. Dejesus can back up all 3 OF positions and is a pretty good insurance policy in case Hamilton needs more seasoning.

With these moves, the Reds would go into 2014 with the following lineup:

CF: Hamilton/Dejesus
2B: Infante
1B: Votto
RF: Bruce
3B: Frazier
LF: Markakis/Ludwick
C: Mesoraco
SS: Cozart

SP: Latos
SP: Cueto
SP: Cingrani
SP: Perez
SP: Leake

In 2015, Joey Butler replaces Markakis and hits in the second spot in the order. Both Eduardo Rodriguez and Robert Stephenson may also be ready to compete for rotation spots in 2015. This keeps the SP pipeline primed, which will hopefully translate into more post season appearances (and maybe even victories) over the next couple of years.

Thoughts?

Not a bad plan. I'd probably pass on Butler, and Perez may be hard to get. Maybe Odor and Luis Sardinas (future Reds MI) along with one of the bullpen excess (Scheppers?) in Texas with the idea of moving Chapman in to Bailey's spot. With Andrus and Profar, those MI prospects are blocked in Texas so them moving them makes sense. They probably would be unlikely to deal Perez.

I like the Markakis and Dejesus ideas for fixing the OF though and Infante isn't that big a drop from Phillips and I think would come for a lot less per year and a shorter commitment. If not, there are other options for 2B.

All that is left is getting a lefty bat to platoon with Mesoraco. Send Hanigan packing and maybe see if the Phillies would be a taker for Ludwick. Heisey could spell Markakis or Dejesus against LHP. That would free some cash for an AJ Pierzynski signing.

[JayBruceFan]

If we are talking to the Orioles, how about package of Phillips and prospect(s) for Matt Wieters?

Have heard that he may be available and he would look pretty good in our lineup.

Thoughts?

[jwertz]

If we are talking to the Orioles, how about package of Phillips and prospect(s) for Matt Wieters?

Have heard that he may be available and he would look pretty good in our lineup.

Thoughts?

I'll pass. I think Mesoraco can give us similar production with regular at bats.

[RedlegJ]

Haven't seen it posted in the SD anywhere yet so... This was a tweet from Buster Olney this morning..

Buster_ESPN: The Angels want pitching,and sources say they've indicated a willingness to other teams to trade Peter Bourjos or/and Mark Trumbo to get it.

Now before you start bashing Trumbo, we all know about his stats.

His career slash in 3 total years is .250/.299/.469/.768 with an average of 33 homers and 100 RBI.

I used his career numbers because he's still young so I imagine he'll put up something next year that is better than what he did this past year, more similar to his career average.

Obviously we have Ludwick, but I don't have much confidence in him at all next year. He's old and no way he'll put up numbers like he did in 2012, especially after this injury. The only number I see Ludwick besting Trumbo is OBP. I don't think the power will be there next year. Trumbo batting from the right side in GABP behind Votto would be something to look forward to. Probably looking at around 40 homers. Imagine him and Bruce in the same lineup with all those home runs.

[RedlegJ]

Now talking about Bourjos, he doesn't really excite me like Trumbo does. I'd want him to be my 4th option behind signing Choo, giving BHam a shot, and looking for someone else.

[RedlegJ]

I checked out a few angels messages boards, and they say that bourjos and trumbo should each fetch a 3/4 type starting pitcher

[SlimJim11]

a 3 or 4 type pitcher for a .299 career OBP guy seems like a high price. Especially when that guy will be 28 at the start of the season.

[jwertz]

I don't see how Trumbo helps us. Doesn't get on base, doesn't play defense. Power seems like his only real tool is power. I'm not trading a legit starting pitcher for Trumbo.

[RedlegJ]

Trumbo's RC this year was 79. Want a comparison? Ryan Ludwick in 2012.. 77.

What do y'all want? Because you aren't going to get a superstar MVP player. We already have one of those. Trumbo definitely helps this offense.

[MoneyInTheBank]

Trumbo's RC this year was 79. Want a comparison? Ryan Ludwick in 2012.. 77.

What do y'all want? Because you aren't going to get a superstar MVP player. We already have one of those. Trumbo definitely helps this offense.

Ludwick cost the Reds 1 year/$3M. Trumbo would cost them Leake? Bailey? Cingrani? While I'm not totally opposed to trading a pitcher, does Trumbo really add more than any of the 5 in our rotation do over replacement?

[RedlegJ]

I imagine we would net more than just Trumbo for one of our starters

[JayBruceFan]

If you don't think Mark Trumbo is an upgrade over Ryan Ludwick, you don't know baseball

[Lewdog]

Only problem with Trumbo is, he is basically a younger right handed version of Adam Dunn. I think many of you remember how frustrating that was.

[RedlegJake]

If you don't think Mark Trumbo is an upgrade over Ryan Ludwick, you don't know baseball

Thank you for the condescension. I must not know baseball despite playing, coaching, umping and watching for, oh, about 53 or 54 years now. I'll take Ludwick. Trumbo has power. That's it. Oh...and he's younger - I guess if you are thinking who will be better in 3 or 4 years, yeah it'll be Trumbo. Also, the choice isn;t a vacuum - it is Trumbo minus Leake or whoever verses Ludwick. Makes a huge difference.

[mth123]

Only problem with Trumbo is, he is basically a younger right handed version of Adam Dunn. I think many of you remember how frustrating that was.

Except Dunn had about 100 points of OBP on him. Trumbo is to Adam Dunn as Chris Heisey is to Shin Soo Choo.

[RedlegJ]

You've gotta think Trumbo's OBP could have a chance at coming up. Ludwick isn't going to cut it. If we stick with him next year, its going to be disappointing. I mean if Trumbo can come here and hit .250 with an OBP around .310 or so and OPS about .760-.800, I'd take him.

[mth123]

You've gotta think Trumbo's OBP could have a chance at coming up. Ludwick isn't going to cut it. If we stick with him next year, its going to be disappointing. I mean if Trumbo can come here and hit .250 with an OBP around .310 or so and OPS about .760-.800, I'd take him.

I wouldn't mind Trumbo in LF as a RH power bat if the Reds could unload Ludwick's salary to Philly or someplace. The problem is what the team would have to give up for him. I wouldn't deal any of the team's current starters for him. If the Angels would take some one like Marshall with a kid or two like Corcino and say Y-Rod, OK. Cueto, Bailey or Leake? I'd need a lot more than Trumbo. No interest in Bourjos.

I'd do a big deal with Bailey, Marshall, Ludwick and Phillips for Trumbo, Kendrick, Taylor Lindsay and Garrett Richards. I'd toss in Corcino if need be.

Then use the money saved to sign some help at other spots.

[RedlegJake]

mth has the essence - I actually like Trumbo better than Ludwick if it is even - that is you don't have to give up a member of the starting rotation and you aren't eating Ludwick's salary to be a 4th OFer. He'd certainly produce more homers, especially playing half his games at GABP. But no deal can be looked at as even unless a player is being cut or picked up for scrubs. Then you have to weigh his overall impact - not only what he produces but what the player(s) you lose would have produced. If the Angels were induced to take on Ludwick in order to get Bailey, and would flip Kendrick for BP as part of the deal and would toss in a couple prospects either Lindsay or Yarborough - their choice (both good 2B prospects) or Eric Stamets (SS) and Richards or Mark Sappington (RHP). I'd add Corcino in the deal if they included Richards because he is ML ready now.

I'd just caution huge blockbuster multi core player deals like this almost never get done anymore. It's fun to discuss but highly unlikely.

[MoneyInTheBank]

I'd rather sign Michael Morse than trade for Mark Trumbo

[Lewdog]

I still want the Reds to go after Ryan Raburn. He would come a lot cheaper than Trumbo and give you and give you a better OBP.

[MoneyInTheBank]

I still want the Reds to go after Ryan Raburn. He would come a lot cheaper than Trumbo and give you and give you a better OBP.

Raburn worries me being so up and down his whole career. He's not the kind of guy I'd like to give up assets for. As a free agent, I'd love to have him. Trade? Not so much

[Lewdog]

Raburn worries me being so up and down his whole career. He's not the kind of guy I'd like to give up assets for. As a free agent, I'd love to have him. Trade? Not so much

Well his contract is extremely cheap, and he had 16 homers playing as a backup in only 87 games with an OBP of .357 and a career OBP of .317, Trumbo's career OBP is .299.

[MoneyInTheBank]

Well his contract is extremely cheap, and he had 16 homers playing as a backup in only 87 games with an OBP of .357 and a career OBP of .317, Trumbo's career OBP is .299.

Right, but his contract is extremely cheap for the Indians too and he's coming off of a very productive year so he won't come cheap.

I'm not trying to compare him to Trumbo because, honestly, if I were in charge, I'd pass on both of them in a trade. I'd sign a bit player like Michael Morse before giving up an asset for a bit player like Raburn or Trumbo

[PepperJack]

I posted this in the ORG, but maybe you guys will find it interesting as well.

It is MLBTraderumors predictions for the top 50 FA.


http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/11/2014-top-50-free-agents-with-predictions-1.html



3. Shin-Soo Choo - Tigers. Choo posted a robust .423 on-base percentage this year, leading all free agents and ranking fourth in baseball. He's another Boras leadoff man with a shot at $100MM, so you can be sure we'll hear the agent talking about how leadoff hitters are the new 40 home run hitters. Despite playing center field this year, Choo fits best in an outfield corner. There are questions about his defense and ability to hit left-handed pitching, and as with Cano, Ellsbury, McCann, Santana, and others, a team will have to forfeit its highest available draft pick to sign him. The 31-year-old South Korea native should require a contract in excess of Hunter Pence's five-year, $90MM deal, making a return to the Reds unlikely. The Tigers' interest in signing Choo to play an outfield corner is unknown, but surely Boras' relationship with owner Mike Ilitch will lead to a conversation. The Mets, Yankees, Rangers, Mariners, Cubs, and Astros are other potential matches.



23. Bronson Arroyo - Mets. Arroyo is the only pitcher in baseball to make at least 32 starts per year from 2005-13. Arroyo, 37 in February, is the game's most consistent innings-eater. It appears he'll move on from the Reds after eight seasons, probably without a potentially budget-busting qualifying offer. I've pegged Arroyo at two years and $24MM, which could be palatable for the Mets, Twins, Giants, and several other teams looking to solidify the backend of their rotation.

[RedlegJ]

My feeling on Choo has shifted to not signing him. I just think that contract would end up hurting us in a few years.

[Ron Delancey]

So the Reds probably aren't going to sign any of the top 50 free agents...Awesome. Not that I want to blow money on a bad contract, but I get frustrated with never making a big move. I also am aware that there is a possibility of a trade, but I still think we need to go all in on Choo. He may not produce like he did this year, but he's always going to provide pretty solid numbers. We need to find some way to offer him at least close to what he wants.

[SlimJim11]

I don't know, if he was just a random free agent, you gotta look at a guy that is 31 years old and just posted a career high in OBP and his 2nd highest OPS.


To pay 100 million to a 31 year old OF with an .854 career OPS that is really bad in CF just doesn't seem to make sense. Somebody will pay him what he wants most likely, and that team will regret it in 2-4 years.

[RedlegJ]

Not sure why everyone is calling Choo bad in CF... He played very well this year and only had 4 errors

[Ron Delancey]

I agree! He wasn't that bad out there. He may not have had a ton of range, but he was pretty good out there. 4 errors all season and I think 2 were in the same game.

[SlimJim11]

Errors are not how you rate a player defensively. Fangraphs rates Choo far and away the worst CF in baseball last year of all the players that qualified as playing CF.

That is why everybody says Choo is bad in CF.

[RedlegJ]

Look at it how you want. I look at how many games he cost us in CF and it was just that one in St Louis in April. Choo was fine in CF, regardless of what these websites say.

[RedlegJ]

The Red Sox did not make a qualifying offer to Saltalamacchia. What kind of deal do you think he gets?

[JMac84]

I've seen predictions for Salty in the 4 year, $36 mill range.

Jon Heyman is reporting we will not make a qualifying offer to Bronson. Feels like somewhat of a mistake to me; then again, it's not my money.

[RedlegJ]

I wish the Reds would take a look at Salty, though it'll never happen.

[Gapper]

Looks like we just signed a catcher.....

Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN 2m
The Reds' signing of Brayan Pena frees up the Reds to either non-tender Ryan Hanigan or trade him. Rays, Yankees have liked him in the past.

[Gapper]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/11/reds-to-sign-brayan-pena.html

Looks like he hits pretty well from the left side of the plate, which will do well when he spells Mesoraco. I wonder what we can get for Hanigan.

[RedlegJake]

Hanigan for Matt Joyce. Then you have platoons that work behind the plate and in LF. Cheap too.

[RedlegJ]

Ken_Rosenthal: Pena earned $875K last season and will get raise in this deal, source says. Mesoraco likely starter with Pena backing up, Hanigan on move.

DCameronFG: The AL East bidding war for Ryan Hanigan is going to be fun. Four nerdy teams all need a catcher and will love what Hanigan provides.

[RedlegJ]

Someone posted this in ORG so I thought i'd share. These tweets are from Darren Wolfson. He is a news anchor and sports reporter in Minneapolis. The last two tweets are responses to questions.

The #MNTwins contingency in Orlando at the GM meetings: Ryan, Antony, & Radcliff. Lots of meetings w/ agents & trade talk w/ GMs lined up.

@christopherokey Not yet. Maybe those leak in the next few days. My hunch (no sourcing yet): they talk to the Reds about Homer Bailey.


@ChrisKuznik Ryan told me he will be pro-active & seek out GMs who have arms to move. The A's do (more like Anderson). The Reds do (Bailey).

[JayBruceFan]

Hanigan for Matt Joyce. Then you have platoons that work behind the plate and in LF. Cheap too.

Platoons never work, at any position, in any sport.

[Redsfansince72]

if the Cardinlas get Tulowitzki I am going to be upset!! I dont want to hear another Walt Excuse for doing zilch to IMPROVE the Reds!! The Cards loose Pujols and look WAY better now.. Heck the Reds lost Votto, they would be competing in the wrong direction of the standings..

Cardinals, Rockies To Discuss Troy Tulowitzki Trade
By Charlie Wilmoth [November 10 at 9:51pm CST]

The Cardinals and Rockies will discuss a potential Troy Tulowitzki trade at this week's GM/owner meetings, Jeff Passan of Yahoo! Sports reports. The Cardinals have also asked the Rangers about the possibility of trading for Elvis Andrus or Jurickson Profar, Passan writes.

The Cardinals' troubles at the shortstop position are well-known, as is the depth of their young talent, so potential Tulowitzki or Profar deals have long been the subjects of fan speculation. The Rockies have said they aren't interested in dealing Tulowitzki, but Passan suggests that Rockies ownership may be coming around to the idea of freeing itself of the seven years and $134MM remaining on Tulowitzki's contract, which carries through 2020 (with a club option for 2021).

Passan writes that one potential piece the Rockies might receive in return is first baseman Matt Adams, who so far has been blocked by Allen Craig in St. Louis. Adams hit .284/.335/.503 in part-time duty for the Cardinals this year. The Rockies would also like a pitcher -- the Cardinals will not trade Michael Wacha, but Shelby Miller appears to be a possibility. Adams and Miller would highlight a package of three or four players that the Rockies might receive in return for Tulowitzki.

Tulowitzki's contract has a no-trade clause, but the presence of former Rockies teammate Matt Holliday and the Cardinals' reputation as a winning organization might entice him to accept a deal. Tulowitzki, 29, hit .312/.391/.540 and produced 5.6 wins above replacement in 2013, making him the best shortstop in baseball. His injury history may be a concern, however, given the length of his contract.

[Redsville]

if the Cardinlas get Tulowitzki I am going to be upset!! I dont want to hear another Walt Excuse for doing zilch to IMPROVE the Reds!! The Cards loose Pujols and look WAY better now.. Heck the Reds lost Votto, they would be competing in the wrong direction of the standings..

Cardinals, Rockies To Discuss Troy Tulowitzki Trade
By Charlie Wilmoth [November 10 at 9:51pm CST]

The Cardinals and Rockies will discuss a potential Troy Tulowitzki trade at this week's GM/owner meetings, Jeff Passan of Yahoo! Sports reports. The Cardinals have also asked the Rangers about the possibility of trading for Elvis Andrus or Jurickson Profar, Passan writes.

The Cardinals' troubles at the shortstop position are well-known, as is the depth of their young talent, so potential Tulowitzki or Profar deals have long been the subjects of fan speculation. The Rockies have said they aren't interested in dealing Tulowitzki, but Passan suggests that Rockies ownership may be coming around to the idea of freeing itself of the seven years and $134MM remaining on Tulowitzki's contract, which carries through 2020 (with a club option for 2021).

Passan writes that one potential piece the Rockies might receive in return is first baseman Matt Adams, who so far has been blocked by Allen Craig in St. Louis. Adams hit .284/.335/.503 in part-time duty for the Cardinals this year. The Rockies would also like a pitcher -- the Cardinals will not trade Michael Wacha, but Shelby Miller appears to be a possibility. Adams and Miller would highlight a package of three or four players that the Rockies might receive in return for Tulowitzki.

Tulowitzki's contract has a no-trade clause, but the presence of former Rockies teammate Matt Holliday and the Cardinals' reputation as a winning organization might entice him to accept a deal. Tulowitzki, 29, hit .312/.391/.540 and produced 5.6 wins above replacement in 2013, making him the best shortstop in baseball. His injury history may be a concern, however, given the length of his contract.

I was curious if anyone saw this late last night. Didn't see a topic thread for this all to its own yet, but curious if it deserves one. I only hope that this gets Bob and Walts attention to the fullest this week at the GM meetings. If the Cardinals have the intent to make a huge splash we better act first or counter.

[MoneyInTheBank]

Platoons never work, at any position, in any sport.

The World Series champs used platoons at Catcher, LF and 1B

[RedlegJake]

Yeah...platoons never work. I left it alone because I thought it had to be sarcasm. You're just wrong.

[mth123]

Yeah...platoons never work. I left it alone because I thought it had to be sarcasm. You're just wrong.

I think platoons are very helpful where most hitters are concerned. The Reds have a lot of guys who seem to struggle similarly against RHP - Frazier, Mesoraco, Heisey, Phillips, Cozart and even Ludwick these days. These guys are probably more than the short half of a platoon, but adding a LH bat that would allow some of these guys to sit about half the time against RHP should help. Xavier Paul is really the only "other half" on the roster. Maybe Brayan Pena can fill the role at catcher. Jack Hannahan is the kind of guy who makes it appear that platoons don't work. The right guys can boost production from the position as a tandem more than what either can provide individually. The problem is sometimes the LH half is a poor hitter and doesn't help much. Jettison Hannahan and bring in Eric Chavez for about 40 starts per year and the production at 3B will rise dramatically IMO.

[Old school 1983]

I think platoons are very helpful where most hitters are concerned. The Reds have a lot of guys who seem to struggle similarly against RHP - Frazier, Mesoraco, Heisey, Phillips, Cozart and even Ludwick these days. These guys are probably more than the short half of a platoon, but adding a LH bat that would allow some of these guys to sit about half the time against RHP should help. Xavier Paul is really the only "other half" on the roster. Maybe Brayan Pena can fill the role at catcher. Jack Hannahan is the kind of guy who makes it appear that platoons don't work. The right guys can boost production from the position as a tandem more than what either can provide individually. The problem is sometimes the LH half is a poor hitter and doesn't help much. Jettison Hannahan and bring in Eric Chavez for about 40 starts per year and the production at 3B will rise dramatically IMO.

I'm agreeing with this 100%. If third base does not receive a full blown upgrade, Chavez would be an excellent platoon partner with Frazier.

[RedlegJake]

I think platoons are very helpful where most hitters are concerned. The Reds have a lot of guys who seem to struggle similarly against RHP - Frazier, Mesoraco, Heisey, Phillips, Cozart and even Ludwick these days. These guys are probably more than the short half of a platoon, but adding a LH bat that would allow some of these guys to sit about half the time against RHP should help. Xavier Paul is really the only "other half" on the roster. Maybe Brayan Pena can fill the role at catcher. Jack Hannahan is the kind of guy who makes it appear that platoons don't work. The right guys can boost production from the position as a tandem more than what either can provide individually. The problem is sometimes the LH half is a poor hitter and doesn't help much. Jettison Hannahan and bring in Eric Chavez for about 40 starts per year and the production at 3B will rise dramatically IMO.

I agree 100%. I was disagreeing with JayBuceFan who said platoons never work in any sport. Platoons are extremely useful. Frazier/Chavez as you point out, would be so much more productive than just Frazier. Catcher is a position that really lends itself to platooning effectively because few catchers can go 145-150 games a year. Having guys that split opposite is ideal. Pena OPS'd .801 last year against righties. Mes was at .874 vs. lefties. Their distaff numbers? Pena .608 vs LH, Mes .576 vs RH. Platoon heaven.

[JayBruceFan]

It was hardly sarcasm but I guess I shouldn't have worded it in such absolute terms. But they rarely, if ever, sustain any type of long term success and are something you shouldn't be building a club around, if you can help it that is.

Outside of catcher, platoons are rarely effective for any extended period of time. They may work for a season or two but it's not really productive in the long run because 1 or both players will eventually come back to earth.

Look at football for an example, almost every situation that has involved platooning QB's has failed miserably or someone has risen to the occasion to win the job. It's hardly a perfect science and should always be a last resort.

[Redsville]

Is this too far fetched....

-Say Pena deal is to free up Mesoraco not Hannigan for a trade.
-Reds understand don't stand a chance to sign Bailey long term, need to trade to team with large enough payroll that can
-Walt/Bob want to unload BP very badly based off of comments made, also need team with 2b open and large payroll

Reds/Dodgers...

BP/Bailey/Hamilton/Mesoraco
4
Kemp/Z Lee/2b prospect

BP & future money of Arroyo/Bailey/Choo allows us to afford Kemp.

I'm not sure if we would want to lock up that much payroll with Kemp/Votto..but who knows

Sounds like from radio guys like Lance that we could be in for huge offseason.

[CoachBombay]

Looks like the Phillies signed Marlon Byrd to a 2 year deal according to an update I just received from bleacher report

[Redsville]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/11/sherman-on-tanaka-reds-chapman-choo.html

Joel Sherman talks about Chapman, keeping rotation as is possibly, and the possibility of us still in the running for Choo at 100 mil+ to man CF 2014, then move to corner OF going forward to make way for Hamilton.

[Lewdog]

Curtis Granderson is a free agent after turning down the Yankees offering sheet on him. He had an injury plagued bad year last year, but the two years before that he was an absolute stud. His 2011 stats would be MVP like if he was hitting closer to .300. I bet he would be a lot cheaper than Choo.

[Redsville]

Curtis Granderson is a free agent after turning down the Yankees offering sheet on him. He had an injury plagued bad year last year, but the two years before that he was an absolute stud. His 2011 stats would be MVP like if he was hitting closer to .300. I bet he would be a lot cheaper than Choo.

I agree...I'd like that signing too, but needs to be cheaper than Choo...maybe if his per year amount slips a bit, more in line with Jay Bruce around the 12-13 per yr amount for 3 years.

[dkamberi25]

Curtis Granderson is a free agent after turning down the Yankees offering sheet on him. He had an injury plagued bad year last year, but the two years before that he was an absolute stud. His 2011 stats would be MVP like if he was hitting closer to .300. I bet he would be a lot cheaper than Choo.

But he's not going to hit closer to .300. He is much like Bruce in terms of offensive numbers with better speed.

[Lewdog]

But he's not going to hit closer to .300. He is much like Bruce in terms of offensive numbers with better speed.

And what's wrong with that? The Reds think Jay Bruce is the corner stone of the future, so what wrong with having two Jay Bruce's?

[Alpha Zero]

I really like Granderson. He'd be a nice signing if the Reds can swing it. I don't really like the idea of surrendering a draft pick for a free agent, but I think Granderson is enough of an upgrade to warrant it if the price is right.

[Spuds Mckenzie]

First post ever...lol. I thought it would be something more profound. Does anyone think signing ubaldo Jimenez might be a good idea. You wouldn't have to give up a pick, you could get him fairly cheap (3 years 39 mil or so), he has significant upside (look at second half), and he would allow us to move bailey without hurting too bad.

An added incentive is he would have an incredibly attractive contract to deal if/when Stephenson is ready?

[Salukifan2]

I think Granderson would be a perfect fit for the reds. His swing is built for GABP.

[jwertz]

Jeff Passan of Yahoo says Ricky Nolasco has multiple four year offers on the table. The offers range from $52-$60 mil. Nolasco had a decent season, but I really hope we aren't one of those teams. I know pitchers are getting paid in free agency, but that seems like a ton of money for a guy like Nolasco.

[RedlegJake]

First post ever...lol. I thought it would be something more profound. Does anyone think signing ubaldo Jimenez might be a good idea. You wouldn't have to give up a pick, you could get him fairly cheap (3 years 39 mil or so), he has significant upside (look at second half), and he would allow us to move bailey without hurting too bad.

An added incentive is he would have an incredibly attractive contract to deal if/when Stephenson is ready?

Welcome aboard Spuds. I wouldn't mind Ubaldo on a 3 year deal, really, but I don't know if he can be had for that. If Nolasco is being offered 4/52 minimum I'd think Ubaldo's agent is going to pitch him as a better option - more upside, possible #1 and expect at least a comparable contract. Considerable risk, too - you getting Ubaldo the stud or Ubaldo the dud? IF they are dealing Bailey, then something like this might become a necessity but I think between Bailey/BP and the catchers they will try to land a younger option or else sign a cheaper vet on a shorter leash.

[ED44]

I like the idea of Price getting a hold of Josh Johnson on a 1 year deal with incentives. I think you could get him fairly cheap, hope for a bounce back year and provide depth. If they get him fixed, he's a top of the rotation type pitcher (of course injuries have plagued him).

[gilpdawg]

I like the idea of Price getting a hold of Josh Johnson on a 1 year deal with incentives. I think you could get him fairly cheap, hope for a bounce back year and provide depth. If they get him fixed, he's a top of the rotation type pitcher (of course injuries have plagued him).

I'm hearing Royals for Johnson.

[RedlegJake]

I'm hearing Royals for Johnson.

Me too. He's their target to replace Santana in the rotation.

[19braves77]

Reading a lot of chatter of Mark Trumbo to Cleveland.

I would like the Rays to get Mark Trumbo for David Price if they decide Price must go....

[jwertz]

What about Logan Morrison as a trade candidate for left field? Gets on base at a good clip, has good pop, is left handed, doesn't make much. Thoughts?

[jhu1321]

What about Logan Morrison as a trade candidate for left field? Gets on base at a good clip, has good pop, is left handed, doesn't make much. Thoughts?

Need someone who can hit from the right side IMO.

[mth123]

Reading a lot of chatter of Mark Trumbo to Cleveland.

I would like the Rays to get Mark Trumbo for David Price if they decide Price must go....

That's aiming pretty low for Price.

[mth123]

What about Logan Morrison as a trade candidate for left field? Gets on base at a good clip, has good pop, is left handed, doesn't make much. Thoughts?

A healthy Ludwick is a better hitter and a better defender. Morrison at a low cost in Xavier Paul's role wouldn't be bad. Maybe something like Marshall for Morrison would work. Probably nothing the Marlins would want would be worth dealing. Think they'd take Soto?

[vottofan4life]

what about jose altuve as brandon phillips replacement?

[Lewdog]

...maybe the Reds can get Alex Rodriguez to switch to second base? They could make a deal with the Yankees to take him off their hands as long as the Yankees keep paying his contract.

[MoneyInTheBank]

...maybe the Reds can get Alex Rodriguez to switch to second base? They could make a deal with the Yankees to take him off their hands as long as the Yankees keep paying his contract.

If you thought Brandon Phillips was a circus....

[flyersbaseball]

Maybe try to get Danny Espinosa cheap

[CoachBombay]

Read on Twitter the Pirates are a finalist for Josh Johnson. Burnett has been great since joining the pirates and same with Liriano. I dont want them to turn Josh Johnson around too. IMHO him signing with the Pirates is horrible for the Reds

[Lewdog]

Bowden says the Reds should trade Mesoraco and Phillips to the Orioles for Wieters. I'm not all that impressed with Wieters' stats and he becomes a free agent in two years.

[dMaus14]

To me I would rather trade BP because you can clear payroll and/or replace two spots with one players instead of trading BP and Meso to fill catcher.

[MoneyInTheBank]

Bowden says the Reds should trade Mesoraco and Phillips to the Orioles for Wieters. I'm not all that impressed with Wieters' stats and he becomes a free agent in two years.

Wieters does hit for power but wouldn't that trade create just as many questions as answers? If not more?

[Strike3Called]

I didn't say he was. My point isn't that the moves are bad. Just that overall I would argue they haven't really improved.

They added defense in center only to lose it at short.

They added offense at short but have probably lost some with Wong and Bourjos instead of Freese and Jay.

It seems like shuffling around similar players only at different positions.

Jay and Freese were 102 OPS+ hitters last year. 102 OPS+. That's league average. Bourjos hit that last year before he got hurt and has a 116 OPS+ year under his belt 2 years ago. You'd have to really over evaluate Bourjos's 2012 to think he's unlikely to match Jay.

And you'd have to over really over evaluate Wong's 60 ABs last year and ignore the hell out of his minor league production to think he's unlikely to be a league average hitter. And you'd have to drastically overestimate the defensive gap between Peralta and Kozma to not consider this a clear upgrade when Kozma is putting up a 57 OPS+. That kind of offensive production practically wipes away his defensive value....especially when he you consider that Peralta has been the 3rd best defensive SS in baseball over the span of the last 3 years.

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=ss&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=y&type=1&season=2013&month=0&season1=2011&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=24,d

They way I see it, they upgraded on offense at SS and stayed the same on offense everywhere else. But they upgraded on defense at CF, 3B and 2B while practically staying the same everywhere else. They got better. Plus they'll keep Koz on the bench and get ride of Descalso anyway.

[Strike3Called]

Question about Choo. Is the Reds FO willing to let him go or are they going to try to sign him? I don't understand why the reds would just let him go....he's a player that I thought was important to the future of the Reds success.

[Halfway between]

Look at it how you want. I look at how many games he cost us in CF and it was just that one in St Louis in April. Choo was fine in CF, regardless of what these websites say.

My memory was that Cincy won the game that Choo had two miscues against St Louis. Not that my memory is that great.

[Halfway between]

Question about Choo. Is the Reds FO willing to let him go or are they going to try to sign him? I don't understand why the reds would just let him go....he's a player that I thought was important to the future of the Reds success.

I don't think the Reds can afford him but I think they did proffer him a QO. So when another team signs him, they will have to forfeit their 1st round draft pick and Cincy gets a first round pick. It'll probably be pick #32.

[Strike3Called]

Yea just saw this article:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1863247-cincinnati-reds-best-center-field-fallback-options-following-recent-signings

I didn't know Boras was Choo's agent.

[MoneyInTheBank]

Question about Choo. Is the Reds FO willing to let him go or are they going to try to sign him? I don't understand why the reds would just let him go....he's a player that I thought was important to the future of the Reds success.

They are going to try and re-sign him. However, they have indicated that they do not have the resources to win a bidding war over him. His agent (Boras) is throwing out Jayson Werth's 7 year, $126M as the starting point for negotiations. Unless the dollars per year AND years (in the NL, they don't have the benefit of resting or hiding him at DH) come down, they just simply won't be able to afford him.

[Strike3Called]

Without him you're down to 2 players that you can truly count on to OPS+ over 100. Maybe 3 if Ludwick is back on track. Giving Michael Young a 1-year may not be a bad idea.

[Dwarftree]

Why would you want to sign Michael Young? That does not make any sense. Even though the Toddfathers OBP was around 20 points lower than the one of Young, his production was way better. Plus he is 10 years younger. I dont think we need a 3rd baseman.

[jwertz]

The more I think about this off season, the more I get the feeling that Trumbo is going to be our opening day left fielder/4 hitter. Not saying I want it to happen (I don't), I just have a hunch. No evidence to back this up. Don't hold me to this, I'm bored at work.

[Strike3Called]

I meant sign Young in a backup role...utilityman, not as an everyday player. He'd come cheap.

[Strike3Called]

The more I think about this off season, the more I get the feeling that Trumbo is going to be our opening day left fielder/4 hitter. Not saying I want it to happen (I don't), I just have a hunch. No evidence to back this up. Don't hold me to this, I'm bored at work.


What would be wrong with Trumbo?? He's 27 and consistently hits 30 bombs. His OPS+ will likely be anything from 114-124. That's a bat any team could use. Id be curious to know why LAA would seek to get rid of him.

[Halfway between]

I don't see how Trumbo helps us. Doesn't get on base, doesn't play defense. Power seems like his only real tool is power. I'm not trading a legit starting pitcher for Trumbo.
Are the Reds deep enough to trade a starting pitcher for anybody of value?

[Lewdog]

Are the Reds deep enough to trade a starting pitcher for anybody of value?

Yes, especially one they don't think they are going to be able to resign next year.

[daddylovesabby]

Yes, especially one they don't think they are going to be able to resign next year.

Why not try Bailey for trumbo

[Strike3Called]

Where would Trumbo play? Bruce and Ludwick are blocking him. If they are willing to trade Bailey they should seek a 3B or CF back. (because Hamilton probably isnt ready just yet.)

[Halfway between]

Where would Trumbo play? Bruce and Ludwick are blocking him. If they are willing to trade Bailey they should seek a 3B or CF back. (because Hamilton probably isnt ready just yet.)

Not sure that Ludwick blocks Trumbo, and Luddy would be a solid bench guy, but it begs the question who plays CF. Not sure Hamilton can carry the torch this year.

[Dwarftree]

Not sure Hamilton can carry the torch this year.

I would take the gamble on Hamilton. Seriously. I know his numbers in Louisville were far from good. But he was pretty decent in his 13 games with the Reds. Plus his speed just forces the opponent to think/force into errors.

[Mike Honcho]

What would be wrong with Trumbo?? He's 27 and consistently hits 30 bombs. His OPS+ will likely be anything from 114-124. That's a bat any team could use. Id be curious to know why LAA would seek to get rid of him.

He is brutal on defense.

[Mike Honcho]

I would take the gamble on Hamilton. Seriously. I know his numbers in Louisville were far from good. But he was pretty decent in his 13 games with the Reds. Plus his speed just forces the opponent to think/force into errors.

He'll be in the mix but you need a solid back up plan. If not one of the big names out there someone in the second tier like Franklin Gutierrez or Rick Ankiel.

[mth123]

He is brutal on defense.

...and doesn't get on base. Adam Dunn used to get called "Dave Kingman" in a derogatory manner regularly when he actually got on base more than anyone on the team. Trumbo truly is a one trick pony a la King Kong. I happen to think those can be useful under certain circumstances, but I question whether he'd be better than Ludwick even if he put up and additional 10 or 15 HR and he's not really worth burning a major trade chip for IMO.

One of the starters for Trumbo? no way. Broxton, Ondrusek, Heisey and a middling prospect from the OF glut? OK.

[Strike3Called]

Offensively, Bruce is kind of a one trick pony as well. His OBP is higher than Trumbo's but if you adjust for park factors you'd find that they are pretty similar offensively. Bruce is better....but not by a mile.

[Lewdog]

Offensively, Bruce is kind of a one trick pony as well. His OBP is higher than Trumbo's but if you adjust for park factors you'd find that they are pretty similar offensively. Bruce is better....but not by a mile.


Bruce is a gold glove caliber right fielder...Trumbo is like Adam Dunn in the outfield.

[Mike Honcho]

Bruce is a gold glove caliber right fielder...Trumbo is like Adam Dunn in the outfield.

What is gold glove caliber? Has he won a gold glove?

[Strike3Called]

The biggest difference between Fielding Runs Above Average and similar defensive metrics comes in the data and philosophy used. Whereas other metrics use zone-based fielding data, Fielding Runs Above Average ignores that data due to the numerous biases present. Fielding Runs Above Average instead focuses on play-by-play data, taking a step back and focusing on the number of plays made compared to the average number of plays made by a player at said position. The pitcher's groundball tendencies, batter handedness, park, and base-out state all go into figuring out how many plays an average player at a position would make.

Here is an example of the Fielding Runs Above Average spectrum based upon the 2011 season-for the sake of consistency, the players featured below all play the same position (center field):

Excellent - Jacoby Ellsbury 11.6
Great - Nyjer Morgan 5.5
Average - Marlon Byrd 0.6
Poor - Roger Bernadina -5.2
Horrendous - Melky Cabrera -13.2




BP has Bruce's defense at 9.2 FRAA and 10.5 FRAA respectively the last 2 years. He's elite.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/card/card.php?id=47142

However, fangraphs has him pretty poor in 2012 AND 2011....but they both agree he was stellar last year.
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=9892&position=OF

[Mike Honcho]

BP has Bruce's defense at 9.2 FRAA and 10.5 FRAA respectively the last 2 years. He's elite.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/card/card.php?id=47142

However, fangraphs has him pretty poor in 2012 AND 2011....but they both agree he was stellar last year.
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=9892&position=OF

I'm not disagreeing with you but the top two players in your list are center fielders.

[MoneyInTheBank]

He'll be in the mix but you need a solid back up plan. If not one of the big names out there someone in the second tier like Franklin Gutierrez or Rick Ankiel.

I wouldn't count on Rick Ankiel to be anything more than a non roster invitee to spring training. He's 3 years removed from his last decent season

[Halfway between]

...and doesn't get on base. Adam Dunn used to get called "Dave Kingman" in a derogatory manner regularly when he actually got on base more than anyone on the team. Trumbo truly is a one trick pony a la King Kong. I happen to think those can be useful under certain circumstances, but I question whether he'd be better than Ludwick even if he put up and additional 10 or 15 HR and he's not really worth burning a major trade chip for IMO.

One of the starters for Trumbo? no way. Broxton, Ondrusek, Heisey and a middling prospect from the OF glut? OK.

The Angels already suffered disdain from the fan base for failing to get a starter for Bourjos. Do you think Trumbo is getting out of there without a starter? I don't.

[Mike Honcho]

The Angels already suffered disdain from the fan base for failing to get a starter for Bourjos. Do you think Trumbo is getting out of there without a starter? I don't.

Good point. It will be impossible to get Trumbo without giving up Cingrani, which you can't do if either Bailey or Latos leaves.

[mth123]

The Angels already suffered disdain from the fan base for failing to get a starter for Bourjos. Do you think Trumbo is getting out of there without a starter? I don't.

I don't either, but that doesn't mean the Reds should pay it. I'd keep the starters or deal them for something better.

[Lewdog]

What is gold glove caliber? Has he won a gold glove?

By asking this question, it means one of two things:

A: You don't watch enough Reds' games
B: You are just trolling

[Lewdog]

Good point. It will be impossible to get Trumbo without giving up Cingrani, which you can't do if either Bailey or Latos leaves.

Latos is still arbitration eligible for the next two years. I don't understand why people keep talking about his contract status and the status of Jay Bruce who is under contract until 2017. Do you guys know how many things could happen between now and then? Bruce also has a no trade clause to 8 teams. I wonder which ones those are.

[Mike Honcho]

By asking this question, it means one of two things:

A: You don't watch enough Reds' games
B: You are just trolling

Fair enough. I just think calling someone gold glove caliber is kind of like saying a guy is a clutch hitter, it is an arbitrary description. There is no question he is a top ten right fielder.

[Mike Honcho]

Latos is still arbitration eligible for the next two years. I don't understand why people keep talking about his contract status and the status of Jay Bruce who is under contract until 2017. Do you guys know how many things could happen between now and then? Bruce also has a no trade clause to 8 teams. I wonder which ones those are.

But you have to agree it will be next to impossible to keep both of those starters long term, right? They should push to keep Latos IMO and either keep Batman and get a pick when he leaves or if the Reds are out of it at the trade deadline see what they can get for him.

[Lewdog]

Well all the good free agent catchers are off the market. McCann went to the Yankees, AJ Piersynski went to the Red Sox, and Saltlamachia went to the Marlins. Well that dream didn't last long.

[Halfway between]

I would take the gamble on Hamilton. Seriously. I know his numbers in Louisville were far from good. But he was pretty decent in his 13 games with the Reds. Plus his speed just forces the opponent to think/force into errors.

Dusty used him sparingly, thus not overexposing the guy. It would be a pretty big gamble to try and use him everyday. Have to admit that the speed is intimidating but will the OBP pay off?

Could be a pretty big drop off from Choo.

[Dwarftree]

Could be a pretty big drop off from Choo.

It most certainly will be a big drop off. But Hey! if you have a kid that fast and that seems to have done a decent defensive job in AAA, why not give it a shot? If he gets on base (we still need to see how big this IF is) he will make the opponent think. And everyone that played the game knows how big of an factor that can be.

[Mike Honcho]

Well all the good free agent catchers are off the market. McCann went to the Yankees, AJ Piersynski went to the Red Sox, and Saltlamachia went to the Marlins. Well that dream didn't last long.

Maybe next year. Give Mesoraco a full year to sink or swim and see what is there.

[Rando]

Dusty used him sparingly, thus not overexposing the guy. It would be a pretty big gamble to try and use him everyday. Have to admit that the speed is intimidating but will the OBP pay off?

Could be a pretty big drop off from Choo.

Billy also recently tweeted that he is bulking up which could be a factor in his speed. I haven't seen any pics but he is really small to begin with. He could gain easily

[dMaus14]

Now that Robinson Cano has signed with Seattle, if you were Walt would you look into moving BP to NYY??

[RedlegJake]

Now that Robinson Cano has signed with Seattle, if you were Walt would you look into moving BP to NYY??

They balked at Walt's asking price earlier but now that Cano is gone they may be more willing to deal.

[Halfway between]

They balked at Walt's asking price earlier but now that Cano is gone they may be more willing to deal.

Any idea what the asking price was? I don't think the Yankees farm is all that special.

[RedlegJake]

Any idea what the asking price was? I don't think the Yankees farm is all that special.

I don't like much about the Yankee farm either, not for Phillips. The reports I read about the price was simply that the Yankees considered it way too steep. No specific players were mentioned. I'll bet Gardner and a high prospect or two or something like that. If the Reds got a package of prospects from the Yanks I wouldn't be too impressed no matter who the prospects were - there aren't any really top flight prospects anywhere near ready in the Yankee system. Almonte, Flores, Turley, Heathcott, Williams, Sanchez, Banuelos - none stand out.

[Mike Honcho]

I don't like much about the Yankee farm either, not for Phillips. The reports I read about the price was simply that the Yankees considered it way too steep. No specific players were mentioned. I'll bet Gardner and a high prospect or two or something like that. If the Reds got a package of prospects from the Yanks I wouldn't be too impressed no matter who the prospects were - there aren't any really top flight prospects anywhere near ready in the Yankee system. Almonte, Flores, Turley, Heathcott, Williams, Sanchez, Banuelos - none stand out.

Slade Heathcott is decent

[Gapper]

@ctrent: Walt said they’ve ‘talked to 2 or 3 clubs’ on phone, set up some meetings with agents #MLBWinterMeetings #Reds

Wonder what Walt has set up. Nice to hear some things are moving forward.