Package Cueto, Hamilton, Winker 4 CF?

[Redsville]

Would you guys put together a deal with Cueto, Hamilton, and Winker 4 a legit CF, leadoff protect for a few years....if so who would listen to that 3some coming back?

I'm of the opinion Cuetos best days could be behind him, at least for us and the current contract, Billy is going to fizzle out, and Winker is the guy that will probably get the other teams attention as the guy coming back to replace who they send our way.

Would the Tigers be on board with sending Austin Jackson 4 that?

If we pulled off a trade with Cueto, I'd sign Arroyo to 2 years, then have him in case Bailey leaves next year, and slide Stephenson in for 2015.

[No pants Mcgee]

Interesting scenario. I wouldn't rule out a deal like that, but its going to be hard to find a team that's high on both Cueto and Hamilton. Both have question marks, and trade value has never been lower than it is now. Winker is a solid prospect that i'm sure most teams would welcome in a deal.

My guess for the Tigers is they would rather take a shot at an FA pitcher, possibly Arroyo. Then keep the established player in Jackson instead of taking a gamble on Hamilton.

[RedsBrick]

Hamilton's abilities are so unique and a dynamic the Reds haven't seen in a long time, I'd just as soon hold on to him and see what he can do in a Reds uniform.

As the saying goes, "you can't teach speed".

[Lewdog]

Give up a #1 starter, the #1 prospect in your organization, and another guy for a CF? Can Herschel Walker play CF?

[RedlegJake]

Austin Jackson is good but not Hamilton/Winker/Cueto good. Not even close.

[ac084c]

Austin Jackson is good but not Hamilton/Winker/Cueto good. Not even close.

Every organization over-values their prospects, for sure. The Reds would expect a windfall return for that package. Like... Carlos Gomez-esque.

[Johnny Fan]

Why not see what we have before we try to get something else?

[swaisuc]

Everyone values prospects differently, but since I wouldn't trade Cueto for AJackson, I don't think it matters.

[RedEye]

I can't think of a CF right now who merits that sort of return. Maybe a healthy, cheaper Matt Kemp. But he's neither healthy nor cheap right now. Can you think of any others?

[ac084c]

I can't think of a CF right now who merits that sort of return. Maybe a healthy, cheaper Matt Kemp. But he's neither healthy nor cheap right now. Can you think of any others?

If it weren't in division, Carlos Gomez might be worth 2 of the 3, but not all 3.

You couldn't get McCutchen or Trout for that package.

[PadsFS]

Austin Jackson is good but not Hamilton/Winker/Cueto good. Not even close.

I doubt Austin Jackson would be traded, but maybe a Nick Markakis or Gerardo Parra.

Markakis could play LF and wouldn't be bad value for Cueto, with both teams selling low.

Parra could play CF and could likely be a decent top of the order hitting with two years of control left. Parra could come for Winker alone.

With that particular package, you have to look to guys like Dominic Brown for a good, young return. Brown and Revere from the Phillies for Ludwick, Hamilton, and Cueto might be fair with Winker off-setting things.

[No pants Mcgee]

If it weren't in division, Carlos Gomez might be worth 2 of the 3, but not all 3.

You couldn't get McCutchen or Trout for that package.

This.

I would even take an elite corner OF and move Bruce over for that package, but you can't get an elite OF for that package. The second tier guys it might be a bit much to give up, I'm not sure. Bottom line is Cueto and Hamilton have more value to the Reds than they do on the trade market.

[Redsville]

Well, I keep hearing that #1 SP of ours trade value is at its lowest, which it probably is. And Billy may be our #1 prospect to some of you guys, but mine is Mr Ervin, with Winker behind him, at least from the offense stand point, excluding pitchers. I agree that the Reds value those guys more than the rest of the league.

I'd say Cueto is a #3 at best on the market, and they would view Hamilton as back to AAA and see how it goes, along with Winker to AA/AAA. So it would be a team needing a middle of the rotation SP, and a CF and LF both needing another year to challenge 1 or both current MLB guys either about to hit free agency, struggling, both, or plug into spot they send us the guy for.

Going through all the teams, its tough to pin point a CF guy worth that package, that the other team would probably at least listen.

[rgslone]

Personally, I would trade any pitcher on the roster before Cueto. His injury issues last season weren't arm related, so I expect him to be healthy. When healthy, I think he's one of the best in the NL, and easily the best SP on the Reds.

[RedEye]

If it weren't in division, Carlos Gomez might be worth 2 of the 3, but not all 3.

You couldn't get McCutchen or Trout for that package.

Yeah, I was assuming McCutchen and Trout would be off the table.

Gomez is an interesting thought -- but that seems like an overpay to me.

[ac084c]

Yeah, I was assuming McCutchen and Trout would be off the table.

Gomez is an interesting thought -- but that seems like an overpay to me.

Yep, that was just to gauge the premier CFs out there.

From 2011 - 2013, CF fWAR ranks:
1. Trout (21.1)
2. McCutchen (20.4)
3. Ellsbury (16.3)
4. Victorino (14.1)
5. Gomez (12.6)
6. Bourn (11.9)
7. Kemp (11.2)
8. A Jones (11.0)
9. A Jackson (10.7)
10. Granderson (10.3)

You could definitely get Victorino for that package (probably could get him for 2 of the 3) but, would you want him at that cost? He's 33 and probably isn't a center fielder anymore.

All three for anyone but Trout or McCutchen would be an overpay, but I guess it depends on how bullish you are about Hamilton and Winker.

Jackson has a couple pluses in his column: he's 2 years younger than Gomez, and is a true lead-off hitter, however, he's also had the luxury of hitting in a pretty volatile Tigers lineup.

Of those on that list (not named Trout or Cutch),I think Gomez is the best. He's 28, under team control through 2016, and is seeing steady increases in both offensive and defensive play. He's also doing it for the Brewers, who haven't been a good team since their playoff run in 2011.

Gomez WAR/OPS in the last 3:
2011: 1.9/.679 (split time with Nyjer Morgan)
2012: 3.1/.768
2013: 7.6/.844

[RedEye]

Yep, that was just to gauge the premier CFs out there.



From 2011 - 2013, CF fWAR ranks:

1. Trout (21.1)

2. McCutchen (20.4)

3. Ellsbury (16.3)

4. Victorino (14.1)

5. Gomez (12.6)

6. Bourn (11.9)

7. Kemp (11.2)

8. A Jones (11.0)

9. A Jackson (10.7)

10. Granderson (10.3)



You could definitely get Victorino for that package (probably could get him for 2 of the 3) but, would you want him at that cost? He's 33 and probably isn't a center fielder anymore.



All three for anyone but Trout or McCutchen would be an overpay, but I guess it depends on how bullish you are about Hamilton and Winker.



Jackson has a couple pluses in his column: he's 2 years younger than Gomez, and is a true lead-off hitter, however, he's also had the luxury of hitting in a pretty volatile Tigers lineup.



Of those on that list (not named Trout or Cutch),I think Gomez is the best. He's 28, under team control through 2016, and is seeing steady increases in both offensive and defensive play. He's also doing it for the Brewers, who haven't been a good team since their playoff run in 2011.



Gomez WAR/OPS in the last 3:

2011: 1.9/.679 (split time with Nyjer Morgan)

2012: 3.1/.768

2013: 7.6/.844


I guess I am more bullish on the idea of a future Winker-Hamilton-Ervin OF than I am on the idea of trading two of them for two years of Austin Jackson or Carlos Gomez. But yeah, those are the two guys on the list that could 1) conceivably be available and 2) make reasonable sense for the Reds strategically and financially.

[BluegrassRedleg]

Gomez would be worth it, given the Reds' depth of SP.

[mth123]

I guess I am more bullish on the idea of a future Winker-Hamilton-Ervin OF than I am on the idea of trading two of them for two years of Austin Jackson or Carlos Gomez. But yeah, those are the two guys on the list that could 1) conceivably be available and 2) make reasonable sense for the Reds strategically and financially.

I'm bullish on a Winker, Ervin, Bruce OF with Hamilton as a bench player who can PR and play SS, 2B and the OF spots. Winker gets 3 PAs with much success and Billy runs for him late in the game plays OF.

[Redsville]

I'm bullish on a Winker, Ervin, Bruce OF with Hamilton as a bench player who can PR and play SS, 2B and the OF spots. Winker gets 3 PAs with much success and Billy runs for him late in the game plays OF.

This is more in line with I'm looking forward too, if a trade for a CF doesn't happen very soon. I have think Ervin and Winker will be in AAA by late season or close, if the projection continues for both. But that still means waiting another year for them to get into GABP outfield, if not towards the end of 2015. We could use somebody out there this year, if not sending a package of players like these 3, then something else needs to happen.

I'm still scratching my head on not signing Sizemore for that deal...if he does well he's worth the 6 million right? Ok back to this thread topic I started.

Based on the WAR and realistic shot at getting guys, I don't see Gomez even available to an inter division team.

What if we said we are going after Adam Jones??? Is 28, signed through 2018...around 13 mil (2014 and 15) 16 mil (16 and 17) 17 mil (18).

Could they use Cueto/Philips/Hamilton for Jones....is that too much? Probably so.

[RedEye]

I really don't want the Reds giving up on Hamilton now. Sell high if you sell at all. Worst case scenario he's a cheap bench player with historic speed. Best case he's a Vince Coleman / Kenny Lofton hybrid.

[Old school 1983]

I really don't want the Reds giving up on Hamilton now. Sell high if you sell at all. Worst case scenario he's a cheap bench player with historic speed. Best case he's a Vince Coleman / Kenny Lofton hybrid.

I agree. If he fails, Ervin wont be far behind and Billy can become the most dynamic speed weapon off the bench in recent memory as well as affordable.

[JMac84]

Let's think about modern day baseball and the state of our franchise. Realistically, none of these guys will be traded unless we're getting a controllable, Choo like game changer back. None of anything talked about in this thread is likely to ever happen.

Sidenote: Gotta like our roster more than most heading into next season.

[Mike Honcho]

I think the last thing that should happen is trading away young talent in any situation. Enough guys were given up for Latos. No team can succeed without inexpensive guys you develop to surround the big pieces. IMO it is better to see what is there with Hamilton, figure out what is going to happen with Bailey, put another year of development in to the system and roll the dice with what you have.

A guy like Winker could be essential to the team in 2015. With someone like that you don't need to give 2 years and 15M to old guys like Ludwick who tend to break down. Trading him and Hamilton gives up 12 years of cost controlled salaries. It's like charging a credit card. Eventually the bill will be due.

[tomnuetten]

I don´t know if this package would be reasonable... in my books the reds would overpay!

but that´s not the biggest question! the question is would this help the reds now or in the future?

I think it won´t help us now and is worse in the future!

take from cueto from the rotation and we have latos, bailey, leake, cingrani, stephenson?!

this would be a big blow, if one of the starters will go down our (good rotation) wouldn´t look that good anymore

if bailey/latos leave it wouldn´t look that good next year either..

a good cf and leadoff guy would help, but he´s not worth to risk our biggest strength (great rotation + pitchers) in order to improve at one position offensively

and to give up our future on that position (hamilton and winker) => no way I would do this trade

[Redsville]

I don´t know if this package would be reasonable... in my books the reds would overpay!

but that´s not the biggest question! the question is would this help the reds now or in the future?

I think it won´t help us now and is worse in the future!

take from cueto from the rotation and we have latos, bailey, leake, cingrani, stephenson?!

this would be a big blow, if one of the starters will go down our (good rotation) wouldn´t look that good anymore

if bailey/latos leave it wouldn´t look that good next year either..

a good cf and leadoff guy would help, but he´s not worth to risk our biggest strength (great rotation + pitchers) in order to improve at one position offensively

and to give up our future on that position (hamilton and winker) => no way I would do this trade

I just respectively disagree, and that's why we're here, to discuss topics/scenarios.

My opinion is, Cueto's best days are already behind him, at least with the current Reds contract, he will be maligned with injuries between now end of next year.

I think we have a surplus of OF help coming up through the minors, and if we keep Irvin with Bruce, then can get this "said CF" from somebody and there is our future for a few years or more.

Hamilton, I don't see him having much impact until he learns how to get on base in AAA/MLB consistently enough....that's yet to be seen.

I imagine if we were to trade Cueto before the season, we would use his money to sign Arroyo, that's just me. So this year it would be Latos/Bailey/Arroyo/Leake/Cingrani with Holmberg, Wang, Francis on deck. If we don't sign Bailey long term, then Stephenson slides in for him in 2015.....

That gives us a solid rotation, a talented outfield, and keeps payroll in check.

[nmculbreth]

Unless you're getting Trout or McCutchen that's a pretty awful deal from the Reds perspective.

[vottofan4life]

If Cueto, Winker, Ludwick, Marshall, Corcino, and Soto for Bautista and Rasmus doesnt happened i'll be disappointed

[vottofan4life]

if not them then Cueto for either Prado or Sandoval straight up