Super Bowl - Seahawks Broncos

[Roy Tucker]

Comment at will.

I love Manning but I think the Seattle defense will get to him too often. I say Seahawks 20-17.

[Raisor]

I've been a Seahawks fan since I was 10 years old, but they won't beat Manning.

[Stray]

Denver 17
Seattle 7

[Kingspoint]

I love Manning but I think the Seattle defense will get to him too often. I say Seahawks 20-17.

It's going to be interesting to see at what level the Broncos line will be allowed to Hold. They were given a lot of leeway this season, more than other O-lines.


Seattle 24
Denver 21

[WVRed]

Something tells me Manning is going to go out on top. I don't think Russell Wilson will be ready for the big stage either, but Seattles defense will make Manning work for it.

Denver wins the Marijuana Bowl 17-14. Manning announces his retirement later on in the week.

[Roy Tucker]

It will be interesting. The chess master Manning against the wild dogs of the Seattle defense. The Seahawks defense is like Steel Curtain Steelers or '85 Bears or recent era Ravens good. Will Manning have time to pick it apart? That's the key.

[redsfanmia]

I hope Peyten throws multiple picks and chokes like he did so many times while he played for my favorite team, I hope the Seahawks win.

[LegallyMinded]

I hope Manning throws multiple touchdown passes and leads a game-winning drive like he did so many times while he played for my favorite team; I hope the Broncos win.

[redsfanmia]

I hope Manning throws multiple touchdown passes and leads a game-winning drive like he did so many times while he played for my favorite team; I hope the Broncos win.

I should feel like that but I feel like a jilted lover.

[RedsBaron]

In our office pool I risked one dollar (I'm wild and crazy) and picked the team I am rooting for, Denver, to win 27-25. Truth be told, I actually lean towards Seattle to win because of its defense, but I just couldn't bet against the team I am rooting for.

[klw]

Doctor predicts Patriots for the win- he's a big Brady fan.

Oops

http://deadspin.com/doctor-predicts-tom-brady-and-patriots-will-win-the-sup-1513922517


Dr. Shukri David is a cardiologist and he was on for a segment giving some heart-health tips because the Super Bowl can be used to discuss anything. A typical local news segment became awkward once the discussion turned to football. Not only does he mistakenly believe the Patriots are playing tomorrow, things get even worse when the anchor tries to help him out with a few hints and desperate looks into the camera.

He doubles down. "No, not Peyton Manning, they're out," he says. "I've been following the Patriots and I think Brady's going to pull it off."

[RedsBaron]

Doctor predicts Patriots for the win- he's a big Brady fan.

Oops

http://deadspin.com/doctor-predicts-tom-brady-and-patriots-will-win-the-sup-1513922517

If he doesn't realize that Brady and the Patriots lost two weeks ago he isn't that big of a Brady fan. ;)

[Dom Heffner]

Doctor predicts Patriots for the win- he's a big Brady fan.

Oops

http://deadspin.com/doctor-predicts-tom-brady-and-patriots-will-win-the-sup-1513922517

Hahahahahaha. Typical for that network.

[Dom Heffner]

If he doesn't realize that Brady and the Patriots lost two weeks ago he isn't that big of a Brady fan. ;)

No, he's following it and Manning's out.

[marcshoe]

Not sure what Denver was thinking letting Manny Ramirez play center, but they got what they deserved.

I haven't watched a lot of football lately, but I'm sure it's the same one.

[marcshoe]

btw, I'm going to become an NBA fan just so I can watch a professional championship game not called by Joe Buck.

[redsfanmia]

btw, I'm going to become an NBA fan just so I can watch a professional championship game not called by Joe Buck.

Buck is brutal

[usfldan]

The Seahawks need TDs, not FGs. They could be up 16-0, not 8-0.

[757690]

The Seahawks need TDs, not FGs. They could be up 16-0, not 8-0.

Up 8-0 against Payton Manning is like being tied 0-0.

[757690]

Not sure what Denver was thinking letting Manny Ramirez play center, but they got what they deserved.

I haven't watched a lot of football lately, but I'm sure it's the same one.

If Eli Manning just won a huge bet on a safety being the first score of the Super Bowl, I'm going to want an investigation.

[RedsBaron]

Not sure what Denver was thinking letting Manny Ramirez play center, but they got what they deserved.

I haven't watched a lot of football lately, but I'm sure it's the same one.

I guess it was Manny B Manny. He does look a bit different but I guess the PEDS could do that. ;)

[usfldan]

John Fox going for it on fourth down way too early. Denver just needed any kind of points. Kind of like when he went for two way too early in SB XXXVIII with the Panthers.

[SunDeck]

Bruno Mars better be awesome.

[paintmered]

Bruno Mars better be awesome.

I'd say he killed it.

[Roy Tucker]

Ball game.

Bring back Bruno. It will be more entertaining.

[usfldan]

About all that's left is to see if this is the first shutout in SB history.

[SunDeck]

I'd say he killed it.

Perhaps it was homage, but I couldn't get the inevitable comparison with James Brown out of my head. Don't get me wrong, Bruno Mars is a bright light in an otherwise dimly lit pop world.
A great entertainer, but he's not the Godfather of Soul.

[SunDeck]

I'd forgotten how bad it can be to watch Manning without protection.

[klw]

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/19ehlvhll5twdgif/ku-xlarge.gif

[klw]

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/19ehssdd3yf2igif/ku-xlarge.gif

[Tom Servo]

https://24.media.tumblr.com/29ecfa845a6e4235533a7336766e4ec1/tumblr_n0ea2dB0Zy1qc8qobo1_500.jpg

[klw]

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/19ehxjhbgyp5djpg/ku-medium.jpg
http://deadspin.com/crying-broncos-kid-is-the-face-of-the-super-bowl-1514576926
http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/19ehwu5r3c00fjpg/ku-xlarge.jpg

[RedsBaron]

Just brutal. :eek:

[paintmered]

Even the Bengals couldn't have laid this big of an egg.

Game over, enjoy the commercials.

[kaldaniels]

Chrysler got Bob Dylan! :eek:

[kaldaniels]

Congrats to Peyton Manning for breaking the all-time record for number of completions in a Super Bowl. :thumbup:

[Dom Heffner]

Chrysler got Bob Dylan! :eek:

Not going to lie that made my night.

[Joseph]

I stopped watching at halftime. Worst Super Bowl ever?

[Stray]

That was a terrible game.

Seattle was too good, but yeah, was hoping for a competitive game at least.

[usfldan]

I stopped watching at halftime. Worst Super Bowl ever?

Most lopsided in awhile, but there was a run in the 80's & 90's where games like this were the norm (Chicago/NE, Washington/Denver, SF/Denver, Dallas/Buffalo...) and the close games were the exception.

[klw]

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/19ehzdkusp4ghgif/ku-xlarge.gif

[Roy Tucker]

Not going to lie that made my night.

Me too. That was cool.

[Roy Tucker]

Broncos looked as flat as the Reds the last week of the season.

[powersackers]

I think everyone I follow on twitter tweeted #EsuranceSave30

[Wonderful Monds]

I've been a Seahawks fan since I was 10 years old, but they won't beat Manning.

lol

[Wonderful Monds]

This was the worst Super Bowl in the history of the NFL.

[Tom Servo]

This was the worst Super Bowl in the history of the NFL.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_XX

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_XXIV

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_XXXVII

[usfldan]

I wasn't alive for them, but some of the early ones sounded pretty dull, too, with neiter team playing all that well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_V - 11 combined turnovers! The winning team had seven!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_VII - Lowest scoring SB ever, with Washington's only points coming when Miami completely botched a meaningless FG attempt in the final minutes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_IX - 16-6, with Minnesota's only points coming on a blocked punt in the fourth quarter, after which the missed the extra point.

[Revering4Blue]

So, can we finally put to rest the ridiculous notion that only traditional dropback passers are capable of leading teams to Superbowl wins?

[kaldaniels]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_XX

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_XXIV

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_XXXVII

Patriots led in XX

Denver had an early FG in XXIV (Score was 7-3)

TB-Oak was tied 3-3

I would just contend Denver, based on their play on the field during the game tonight, did not for one second of the game look like they had a chance to be the better team. Total domination from the first second. As ugly as a full 60 minutes can get.

[joshua]

So Carrol is what...only the third coach to have both a national title and superbowl?

[Roy Tucker]

I imagine Buick isn't happy about booking all these Peyton Manning commercials.

[Wonderful Monds]

Patriots led in XX

Denver had an early FG in XXIV (Score was 7-3)

TB-Oak was tied 3-3

I would just contend Denver, based on their play on the field during the game tonight, did not for one second of the game look like they had a chance to be the better team. Total domination from the first second. As ugly as a full 60 minutes can get.

Agreed. They didn't contend for any part of the game whatsoever at all. AND they were the best offense in the history of the NFL. That makes it worse.

[Mutaman]

Peyton is the ARod of the NFL.

[Razor Shines]

Peyton is the ARod of the NFL.

You're talking about their terrible locker room farting aren't you? Awful gas, both of them. That's the only link I see.

Except of course that one game where ARod audibled from a fly out to a double. That was a great call on his part, because a fly out was the wrong call for that play.

[Mutaman]

You're talking about their terrible locker room farting aren't you? Awful gas, both of them. That's the only link I see.

No i'm talking about that fact that if peyton had finally performed well in a big game, a lot of folks, myself included, would have had to shut up about him. But he didn't, as usual, and so I will be collecting, with both hands.

[Razor Shines]

No i'm talking about that fact that if peyton had finally performed well in a big game, a lot of folks, myself included, would have had to shut up about him. But he didn't, as usual, and so I will be collecting, with both hands.

Maybe but the ARod comparison is dumb. Do better. And what are you collecting?

[Wonderful Monds]

No i'm talking about that fact that if peyton had finally performed well in a big game, a lot of folks, myself included, would have had to shut up about him. But he didn't, as usual, and so I will be collecting, with both hands.

Had finally? As if to say Manning hasn't won a Super Bowl already?

[Mutaman]

Maybe but the ARod comparison is dumb. Do better. And what are you collecting?


Do re mi. Money, that what I want. 3 points baby.

I think its a great analogy. Great regular season stats, disappear on the big stage. Peyton = Arod.

What a humungous overlay.

[Revering4Blue]

Had finally? As if to say Manning hasn't won a Super Bowl already?

And his chief adversary hasn't won one since the Spygate controversy was exposed.

Hmmmm.....

[Razor Shines]

Do re mi. Money, that what I want. 3 points baby.

I think its a great analogy. Great regular season stats, disappear on the big stage. Peyton = Arod.

What a humungous overlay.

I do recall that World Series where the other team's catcher kept hitting ARod while he was swinging.

[Tom Servo]

I'm no big Peyton Manning lover (I'm a Tom Brady guy, sorry) but really, questions about his legacy as an elite quarterback? In 2014?

[Mutaman]

I'm no big Peyton Manning lover (I'm a Tom Brady guy, sorry) but really, questions about his legacy as an elite quarterback? In 2014?

Nobody's questioning "his legacy as an elite quarterback" (whatever that means) just like nobody's questioning A Rod's legacy as an elite baseball player. Let's just say some folks can elevate their game when they are in the spot light ( think Montana, Messier, Brett) and some can't.

[Ohayou]

https://v.cdn.vine.co/r/videos/E0D0544B901041971082531426304_1408813e964.4.7.4564 737041872003442__5r0gjjA0ltxCeEcH9NJB1R9B062xBq7Y1 8STUW7FMfv4IE5z8HrhQazIBDn2j8O.mp4?versionId=X2SDQ 2KrJRzY4PQblG53EqBSZ4799t.m

LOL?

[Mutaman]

https://v.cdn.vine.co/r/videos/E0D0544B901041971082531426304_1408813e964.4.7.4564 737041872003442__5r0gjjA0ltxCeEcH9NJB1R9B062xBq7Y1 8STUW7FMfv4IE5z8HrhQazIBDn2j8O.mp4?versionId=X2SDQ 2KrJRzY4PQblG53EqBSZ4799t.m

LOL?

Was that Paul Heyman ?

[RedsBaron]

Nobody's questioning "his legacy as an elite quarterback" (whatever that means) just like nobody's questioning A Rod's legacy as an elite baseball player. Let's just say some folks can elevate their game when they are in the spot light ( think Montana, Messier, Brett) and some can't.

I suppose if Joe Montana had been the Broncos QB last night he would have "consumed the Seahawks with fireballs from his eyes and bolts of lightning from his arse."

[RedsBaron]

Peyton did not have the worst performance by any QB on the field last night. That "honor" belongs to Joe Namath, who messed up the coin flip. ;)

[cumberlandreds]

Peyton did not have the worst performance by any QB on the field last night. That "honor" belongs to Joe Namath, who messed up the coin flip. ;)

Yea but Namath is abut 70 years old. I think we can give him a pass. :)

It looks like Manning's legacy is going to be a great regular season QB who couldn't always or mostly get it done in the playoffs. His post season record is now 11-12. If he can't improve upon that then that will be his legacy and deservedly so. True greatness is marked by how well you do in the post season. For me two of the best are Joe Montana and Tom Brady. I would certainly rank those two over Manning and probably put Bradshaw and maybe Staubach over Manning also.

[klw]

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/19ei3m7vrfvf8gif/original.gif

[indyscott]

Yea but Namath is abut 70 years old. I think we can give him a pass. :)

It looks like Manning's legacy is going to be a great regular season QB who couldn't always or mostly get it done in the playoffs. His post season record is now 11-12. If he can't improve upon that then that will be his legacy and deservedly so. True greatness is marked by how well you do in the post season. For me two of the best are Joe Montana and Tom Brady. I would certainly rank those two over Manning and probably put Bradshaw and maybe Staubach over Manning also.

I think its quite the coincidence that Brady hasnt won a SB since he hasnt had an elite defense, which has been close to 10 years ago. And FWIW Manning has a higher QBR than Brady in the postseason. Brady led his team to TWO offensive TDs in his first SB winning year. I am pretty sure there are several QBs who would be able to be that "clutch"

I am not trying to hate on Brady, he is a great QB, but he has had a longer SB drought now than Manning had to start his career. And Manning was blasted for it

[dubc47834]

No i'm talking about that fact that if peyton had finally performed well in a big game, a lot of folks, myself included, would have had to shut up about him. But he didn't, as usual, and so I will be collecting, with both hands.

I love how 1 game makes a legacy...LOL! How you woulda had to "stop talking" if Peyton won this ONE game...LOL. This is a hilarious notion...:jump::jump::jump::jump::jump::jump::jump ::jump::jump::jump::jump::jump::jump::jump::mooner ::mooner::mooner:

[RedsBaron]

True greatness is marked by how well you do in the post season. For me two of the best are Joe Montana and Tom Brady. I would certainly rank those two over Manning and probably put Bradshaw and maybe Staubach over Manning also.

By that criteria the greatest quarterback of all time is Bart Starr. He started 10 post season games in his career and went 9-1. He is the only QB in NFL history to lead his team to 5 NFL championships, with the Packers capturing the title in 1961, 1962, 1965, 1966 and 1967. Starr often gets left out of the discussion, perhaps because there was no Super Bowl before the 1966 season.

[dubc47834]

I think its quite the coincidence that Brady hasnt won a SB since he hasnt had an elite defense, which has been close to 190 years ago. And FWIW Manning has a higher QBR than Brady in the postseason. Brady led his team to TWO offensive TDs in his first SB winning year. I am pretty sure there are several QBs who would be able to be that "clutch"

I am not trying to hate on Brady, he is a great QB, but he has had a longer SB drought now than Manning had to start his career. And Manning was blasted for it

And the defense on those Colts teams was quite honestly pathetic. Yeah Peyton had some stinker in the post season, but not all the losses are on him. I definately wouldnt say last nite was on him. Neither interception was Peytons fault, Thomas broke off the route on the first one and Peyton's are got hit on the second one. Then on the second one the reciever just stands there and stares at the ball as its floating in the air, "should I get that"...LOL

[RedsBaron]

Joe Montana obviously has an excellent argument to be included in any discussion of greatest QB ever (I'm still mad at him for the two Super Bowls against the Bengals :( ), but even Joe Cool wasn't invincible when he had no pass protection or otherwise went up against an elite NFL defense.
In 1985 he faced an up and coming dominant defense in the New York Giants, who defeated Montana's 49ers 17-3. Montana was 26 for 47 for 296 yards, no TDs, and one INT. Those numbers are similar to Peyton Manning's efforts last night, with Peyton going 34 for 49 for 280 yards, 1 TD and 2 INTs.
In 1986 Montana had a re-match against the Giants defense. NY 49, SF 3. Joe was 8 for 15 for 98 yards, no TDs, 2 INTs.

[moewan]

At least Puppy Bowl X was entertaining. Loren the Brittany was a force, tied the record with four touchdowns, on the way to the most valuable puppy. The Shih Tzu defensive line was stout as well. :thumbup:

[RedTeamGo!]

And the defense on those Colts teams was quite honestly pathetic. Yeah Peyton had some stinker in the post season, but not all the losses are on him. I definately wouldnt say last nite was on him. Neither interception was Peytons fault, Thomas broke off the route on the first one and Peyton's are got hit on the second one. Then on the second one the reciever just stands there and stares at the ball as its floating in the air, "should I get that"...LOL

How was Peyton's arm getting hit not his fault? He should not have thrown the ball once he realized the pocket was collapsing so quickly. He should have eaten that ball and taken the sack, but it seems to be he would rather throw a questionable ball than take a hit.

That pass was absolutely his fault, it should have never been attempted.

[cumberlandreds]

By that criteria the greatest quarterback of all time is Bart Starr. He started 10 post season games in his career and went 9-1. He is the only QB in NFL history to lead his team to 5 NFL championships, with the Packers capturing the title in 1961, 1962, 1965, 1966 and 1967. Starr often gets left out of the discussion, perhaps because there was no Super Bowl before the 1966 season.

He probably was one of the best. Its hard to compare him to the other post merger QB's. The NFL changed a lot after the merger. I also was only mentioning QB's that I have seen play. Starr was done after I started watching sportsin the early 70's.

[cumberlandreds]

I think its quite the coincidence that Brady hasnt won a SB since he hasnt had an elite defense, which has been close to 10 years ago. And FWIW Manning has a higher QBR than Brady in the postseason. Brady led his team to TWO offensive TDs in his first SB winning year. I am pretty sure there are several QBs who would be able to be that "clutch"

I am not trying to hate on Brady, he is a great QB, but he has had a longer SB drought now than Manning had to start his career. And Manning was blasted for it

Brady has won and Manning has not. Well one SB win. Also kinda of no brainer that a QB needs an elite defense behind him. I don't think their have been too many Super Bowl winners that did not have a dominant defense.

[indyscott]

Brady has won and Manning has not. Well one SB win. Also kinda of no brainer that a QB needs an elite defense behind him. I don't think their have been too many Super Bowl winners that did not have a dominant defense.

The Colts rushing defense the year they won the SB was DEAD LAST.

Has Brady become a worse QB in the last 10 years? I am just trying to understand the criteria how someone grades a QB.

And actually the Colts have won 1 SB and the Pats 3. Not Manning 1 and Brady 3.

[Kingspoint]

This was the worst Super Bowl in the history of the NFL.
It was awesome for those of us who like the Seahawks and disdain for the Manning's.

[indyscott]

It was awesome for those of us who like the Seahawks and disdain for the Manning's.

What is there to hate about Peyton Manning. This is a serious question.

[Kingspoint]

What is there to hate about Peyton Manning. This is a serious question.
Can't stand his brother and his Dad. No respect for either of them. Tons of respect for Peyton. But, a failure by Peyton is a failure for Archie and Eli, and that makes me happy. It's like a failure by any Steeler is a failure for the organization. I don't have disdain for all Steelers but I do for them as a whole.

[RedTeamGo!]

What is there to hate about Peyton Manning. This is a serious question.

I do not hate Peyton Manning, but I tend to root against him because I feel as if he is the "Golden Child" of the NFL and I tend to root against people like that. Same reason I rooted against Michael Jordan and Wayne Gretzky.

[Newport Red]

Well, we're three hours closer to baseball. That's all I got.

[indyscott]

I do not hate Peyton Manning, but I tend to root against him because I feel as if he is the "Golden Child" of the NFL and I tend to root against people like that. Same reason I rooted against Michael Jordan and Wayne Gretzky.

So you dislike extremely successful athletes who may be the best that have ever played in their respective sports? Ok lol.

[RedTeamGo!]

So you dislike extremely successful athletes who may be the best that have ever played in their respective sports? Ok lol.

I literally just said I do not hate him or them. I said I root against him/them. Another reason I root against them is I do not like bandwagon fans and players like Manning, Jordan, Gretskey, LeBron tend to have a lot. I prefer bandwagon fans do not get to celebrate. There is a huge difference. He seems like an OK dude, kind of goofy, decent sense of humor.

He is an excellent QB, I certainly would not the say the GOAT though, he has failed way too many times in the playoffs to be considered the GOAT to me.

[indyscott]

He is an excellent QB, I certainly would not the say the GOAT though, he has failed way too many times in the playoffs to be considered the GOAT to me.

So are you saying he has been a better QB than Brady in the last 10 years?

[RedTeamGo!]

So are you saying he has been a better QB than Brady in the last 10 years?

I did not say anything about Brady, so I do not understand why you are asking me that question.

I think Montana is the GOAT.

Manning is the Regular Season GOAT

[indyscott]

I did not say anything about Brady, so I do not understand why you are asking me that question.

I think Montana is the GOAT.

Manning is the Regular Season GOAT

I just asked a simple question. Do you think Manning has been a better QB than Brady the last 10 years?

As for Montana, his teams were absolutely loaded. I wont argue the point of him being the GOAT. But dismissing Manning from the discussion just because his teams werent remotely close to the 49ers is rather short sighted

[Hillsdale87]

I think its quite the coincidence that Brady hasnt won a SB since he hasnt had an elite defense, which has been close to 10 years ago. And FWIW Manning has a higher QBR than Brady in the postseason. Brady led his team to TWO offensive TDs in his first SB winning year. I am pretty sure there are several QBs who would be able to be that "clutch"

I am not trying to hate on Brady, he is a great QB, but he has had a longer SB drought now than Manning had to start his career. And Manning was blasted for it

Manning has consistently had far superior weapons to Brady as well. Brady's WRs could compare to Manning's in '07 when he threw 50 TDs, but not in any other year. He won the Super Bowls throwing to David Patten, Troy Brown, and Deion Branch. Those guys would have been 4th/5th receivers on Manning's teams behind Harrison, Wayne, Clark, and possibly even Stokely.

[RedTeamGo!]

I just asked a simple question. Do you think Manning has been a better QB than Brady the last 10 years?

As for Montana, his teams were absolutely loaded. I wont argue the point of him being the GOAT. But dismissing Manning from the discussion just because his teams werent remotely close to the 49ers is rather short sighted

I disagree on the Colts not being loaded. The defenses were lacking at points, but the Colts offense was very loaded.

Best or near best O-line in the NFL anchored by the potential hall of famer Jeff Saturday.

Marvin Harrison
Reggie Wayne
Dallas Clark
Edgerrin James (quietly a top RB all time)

You also cannot tell me this Broncos team was not loaded.

D Thomas
J Thomas
Eric Decker
Wes Welker

That is an insane receiving corp.
I think the last 10 years Brady and Manning are pretty close, I give the edge to Brady because of the super bowl victories.

[indyscott]

Manning has consistently had far superior weapons to Brady as well. Brady's WRs could compare to Manning's in '07 when he threw 50 TDs, but not in any other year. He won the Super Bowls throwing to David Patten, Troy Brown, and Deion Branch. Those guys would have been 4th/5th receivers on Manning's teams behind Harrison, Wayne, Clark, and possibly even Stokely.

And look at all the SBs he racked up with Randy Moss. Who is better than any WR Manning ever had.

And would you like to talk bout the defensive side of the football during that time? List the players there? As i said earlier, in his first SB winning year he led the Pats to TWO offensive TDs in the postseason. Not two TD passes. 2 TOTAL TDs.

[indyscott]

I disagree on the Colts not being loaded. The defenses were lacking at points, but the Colts offense was very loaded.

Best or near best O-line in the NFL anchored by the potential hall of famer Jeff Saturday.

Marvin Harrison
Reggie Wayne
Dallas Clark
Edgerrin James (quietly a top RB all time)

You also cannot tell me this Broncos team was not loaded.

D Thomas
J Thomas
Eric Decker
Wes Welker

That is an insane receiving corp.
I think the last 10 years Brady and Manning are pretty close, I give the edge to Brady because of the super bowl victories.

How can you give the edge to Brady in SB victories when he hasnt won one in that time frame?

BTW, how many SBs did Brady win with Welker? And who knew the other 3 Bronco receivers names before Manning got there?

[Chip R]

I'm not really a fan of either team but it was entertaining because the SEA defense was so dominant.

[RedTeamGo!]

How can you give the edge to Brady in SB victories when he hasnt won one in that time frame?

BTW, how many SBs did Brady win with Welker? And who knew the other 3 Bronco receivers names before Manning got there?

Julian Thomas is a rookie and an excellent target, are you implying he would be nothing without Peyton throwing to him? I think that is silly.

With regards to Decker and D Thomas - um, everyone that follows NFL football? Decker had 8 TDs his 2nd year in the league without Manning and that was with Tim Freaking Tebow throwing to him. You act as if he were a nobody before Manning.

Why do we omit the previous 4 years to 2013 when Brady won 3 super bowls in 4 years other than your weird narrative?

[indyscott]

Julian Thomas is a rookie and an excellent target, are you implying he would be nothing without Peyton throwing to him? I think that is silly.

With regards to Decker and D Thomas - um, everyone that follows NFL football? Decker had 8 TDs his 2nd year in the league without Manning and that was with Tim Freaking Tebow throwing to him. You act as if he were a nobody before Manning.

Why do we omit the previous 4 years to 2013 when Brady won 3 super bowls in 4 years other than your weird narrative?

Eric Decker caught 44 balls for 612 yards in 2011. He caught 87 for 1288 in 2013. And he didnt have Tebow throwing him 8 TDs. Orton threw 4 to him. Tebow 4.

Demaryius Thomas caught 54 balls for 834 yards and 6 TDs in his first 2 years in Denver. He has caught 186 balls for 2834 yards and 24 TDs in his last 2.

I am not sure who Julian Thomas is, I am guessing you meant Julius, who is NOT a rookie but in his 3rd year. He played 5 games as a rookie and caught 1 ball.

I omitted the previous 4 years to show how silly the "How many SBs has he won" argument is. Do you think Brady has got worse?

[RedTeamGo!]

I omitted the previous 4 years to show how silly the "How many SBs has he won" argument is. Do you think Brady has got worse?

You are trying to turn this into a Brady/Manning debate and as I said, I am not.

Manning has failed in the playoffs many times. What kind of teams play in the playoffs? Good teams. I think the best way to determine the GOAT QB is how they fare against the best teams. Manning has more losses in the playoffs than any QB in the history of football.

[RedTeamGo!]

Eric Decker caught 44 balls for 612 yards in 2011. He caught 87 for 1288 in 2013. And he didnt have Tebow throwing him 8 TDs. Orton threw 4 to him. Tebow 4.

Demaryius Thomas caught 54 balls for 834 yards and 6 TDs in his first 2 years in Denver. He has caught 186 balls for 2834 yards and 24 TDs in his last 2.

I am not sure who Julian Thomas is, I am guessing you meant Julius, who is NOT a rookie but in his 3rd year. He played 5 games as a rookie and caught 1 ball.



Wait, Decker and D Thomas were better in their 3rd and 4th seasons in the NFL compared to their 1st and 2nd? No way!!

Of course they are better with Peyton Manning throwing to them opposed to Kyle Orton and Tim Tebow.

Duh.

[indyscott]

Wait, Decker and D Thomas were better in their 3rd and 4th seasons in the NFL compared to their 1st and 2nd? No way!!

Of course they are better with Peyton Manning throwing to them opposed to Kyle Orton and Tim Tebow.

Duh.

LOL. So you want to talk about how good these guys were, but when actual stats are used you go to the "So they are going to be better in their 3rd and 4th year"

And to respond to your other post, I am not trying to make this into a Manning/Brady debate once again. I am just showing how silly the SB wins argument is. Is Trent Dilfer better than Dan Marino?

Yes he has lost more playoff games than any other QB. He has also been to the playoffs more often than Brady and Montana.

[dubc47834]

How was Peyton's arm getting hit not his fault? He should not have thrown the ball once he realized the pocket was collapsing so quickly. He should have eaten that ball and taken the sack, but it seems to be he would rather throw a questionable ball than take a hit.

That pass was absolutely his fault, it should have never been attempted.

Come on now...go back and look at it. He had an open reciever there. You call open questionable? The guy that intercepted that pass went back to make the play and the reciever couldn't/never made an effort to come back to the tipped pass. Taking sacks at that point in the game isn't getting you anywhere....come on man!!!

[dubc47834]

Wait, Decker and D Thomas were better in their 3rd and 4th seasons in the NFL compared to their 1st and 2nd? No way!!

Of course they are better with Peyton Manning throwing to them opposed to Kyle Orton and Tim Tebow.

Duh.

You listen to Colin Cowherd too much!!!

[RedsBaron]

You listen to Colin Cowherd too much!!!

IMO listening to Colin Cowherd at all, even for a micro second, is listening to Colin Cowherd too much! ;)

[RedTeamGo!]

You listen to Colin Cowherd too much!!!

I haven't listened to Colin Cowherd in like a year, so I do not really know what this means.

[RedTeamGo!]

LOL. So you want to talk about how good these guys were, but when actual stats are used you go to the "So they are going to be better in their 3rd and 4th year"

And to respond to your other post, I am not trying to make this into a Manning/Brady debate once again. I am just showing how silly the SB wins argument is. Is Trent Dilfer better than Dan Marino?

Yes he has lost more playoff games than any other QB. He has also been to the playoffs more often than Brady and Montana.

I did bring up stats, Decker had 8 TDs in his 2nd year with crap QBs. That was noticed by many. Wes Welker was better with Tom Brady as his QB. How is that possible?

Trent Dilfer?

On top of three Super Bowls wins Tom Brady has amassed the following statistics:

Pass attempts 6,586
Pass completions 4,178
Percentage 63.4
TD–INT 359–134
Passing yards 49,149
Passer rating 95.7

Those are elite numbers. Dilfer and Brady are not comparable.

[Revering4Blue]

I'm not really a fan of either team but it was entertaining because the SEA defense was so dominant.

Along with the previously stated fallacy about the inability of dual-threat QBs to win Superbowls, the Seahawks also laid to rest the assertion that defenses cannot dominate in this era in which rules are designed to exponentially increase offensive output.

Kudos to Pete Carroll and company.

[RedTeamGo!]

Another athletic QB with the ability to run won a super bowl. I was told by people in the NFL Playoffs thread that a QB with that skill set is unable to win the Super Bowl.

[indyscott]

I did bring up stats, Decker had 8 TDs in his 2nd year with crap QBs. That was noticed by many.

Trent Dilfer?

On top of three Super Bowls wins Tom Brady has amassed the following statistics:

Pass attempts 6,586
Pass completions 4,178
Percentage 63.4
TD–INT 359–134
Passing yards 49,149
Passer rating 95.7

Those are elite numbers. Dilfer and Brady are not comparable.

So when the most SB wins gets debunked we go back to regualr season. But Mannings regular season doesnt mean anything because he has 2 less SB wins?

But I will play along.
Manning has 1,866 more attempts
1354 more completions
132 more TDs
15,8158 more yards
And a passer rating of 97.2

Here is the kicker. Postseason QB ratings?

Brady 87.5
Manning 89.2

Manning has lost 5 games where he posted a QB rating of 88 or above.

Brady has only lost 3 over 88.90

Manning has won 2 games where he posted a QB rating of 76.0 or under

Brady has won 6 games where he posted 76.0 and under

[dubc47834]

Another athletic QB with the ability to run won a super bowl. I was told by people in the NFL Playoffs thread that a QB with that skill set is unable to win the Super Bowl.

Don't know what was said in the other thread, but I consider Wilson a pocket QB who can make athletic plays with his legs. From my observation he looks to throw, then when things break down he takes off. Im no Wilson expert, just observations from watching him a couple times. I think the read option guys need a much better defense to be succesful, also you better have a damn good back-up QB because more than likely your starter is gonna get hurt!

[RedTeamGo!]

So when the most SB wins gets debunked we go back to regualr season. But Mannings regular season doesnt mean anything because he has 2 less SB wins?

But I will play along.
Manning has 1,866 more attempts
1354 more completions
132 more TDs
15,8158 more yards
And a passer rating of 97.2

Here is the kicker. Postseason QB ratings?

Brady 87.5
Manning 89.2

Manning has lost 5 games where he posted a QB rating of 88 or above.

Brady has only lost 3 over 88.90

Manning has won 2 games where he posted a QB rating of 76.0 or under

Brady has won 6 games where he posted 76.0 and under

Manning also has 85 more interceptions, just thought I would add that since you conveniently left it out.

[Kingspoint]

And who knew the other 3 Bronco receivers names before Manning got there?

It was obvious to anyone paying attention that Decker and Demaryius Thomas were going to be highly successful whatever Quarterback would end up throwing the ball to them before Manning was in the conversation about joining the Broncos.

[Revering4Blue]

Another athletic QB with the ability to run won a super bowl. I was told by people in the NFL Playoffs thread that a QB with that skill set is unable to win the Super Bowl.

Simple observation: Running QBs and Athletic QBs that a are a threat to run are far too often falsely lumped together.

On that note: We had better enjoy watching Brady and Manning (of whom I considers as equals) while we can, because I do not see another of their ilk on the immediate horizon, as even your pocket passers today possess scrambling/improvisational skills.

[indyscott]

It was obvious to anyone paying attention that Decker and Demaryius Thomas were going to be highly successful whatever Quarterback would end up throwing the ball to them before Manning was in the conversation about joining the Broncos.

Do you have any links to these claims?

[RedTeamGo!]

Don't know what was said in the other thread, but I consider Wilson a pocket QB who can make athletic plays with his legs. From my observation he looks to throw, then when things break down he takes off. Im no Wilson expert, just observations from watching him a couple times. I think the read option guys need a much better defense to be succesful, also you better have a damn good back-up QB because more than likely your starter is gonna get hurt!

I think the phrase I used in that thread "athletic QB with the ability to run" perfectly sums up Russell Wilson.

[indyscott]

Manning also has 85 more interceptions, just thought I would add that since you conveniently left it out.

Fine. Do you want to address any of the rest of the post?

[RedTeamGo!]

Do you have any links to these claims?

Please provide links to your claims that they would not be any good without Manning.

[Kingspoint]

Do you have any links to these claims?

I don't need any links to claims. Only a casual fan would have failed to recognize the greatness of Decker and especially Demaryius Thomas the season before Manning got there. I'm sorry if you couldn't see that. If you couldn't, then you either paid very little attention to the Broncos, or else you simply can't recognize talent when you see it.

One poster already tried to state the obvious to you, and you, in a very silly way, dismissed it. Any Receiver is going to be head-and-shoulders better in his 3rd and 4th seasons over his 1st and 2nd seasons. When you break it down individually to the likes of Julius Thomas (basketball player with uber talent from small-school Portland State needs multiple seasons to develop), Decker (normal progression for a Receiver), and Demaryius Thomas (came into the league lacking fundamentals, but considered the most talented Receiver in his draft, making his first two seasons behind the curve before showing signs of explosion in his second season), the breakouts for all three players were going to occur no matter who they had at Quarterback. They wouldn't have been as dramatic, but they still would have been breakout seasons with very good results, especially Demaryius Thomas, who would have likely had an equal number of receptions, yards, and TD's with any other QB as most other QB's would not have thrown to as many targets (Peyton's greatness).

[indyscott]

Please provide links to your claims that they would not be any good without Manning.

LOL

[indyscott]

I don't need any links to claims. Only a casual fan would have failed to recognize the greatness of Decker and especially Demaryius Thomas the season before Manning got there. I'm sorry if you couldn't see that. If you couldn't, then you either paid very little attention to the Broncos, or else you simply can't recognize talent when you see it.

So a duo who have yet to catch 150 balls between them had people looking at their "greatness"? OK. Not sure how I can question that. Just curious though, what were these people looking at when they knew they were going to be great?

[RedTeamGo!]

So a duo who have yet to catch 150 balls between them had people looking at their "greatness"? OK. Not sure how I can question that. Just curious though, what were these people looking at when they knew they were going to be great?

Man, that Manning kool-aid must taste delicious.

You honestly look at a 2nd year WR with 641 yards and 8 TDs with Kyle Orton and Tim Tebow at QB as a nobody? Come on man, step back for a minute and realize the guy has talent wherever he goes. It looks like Decker is going to sign elsewhere as a FA, so we will see how he performs. Maybe he will sign with the Patriots.

[Revering4Blue]

Don't know what was said in the other thread, but I consider Wilson a pocket QB who can make athletic plays with his legs. From my observation he looks to throw, then when things break down he takes off. Im no Wilson expert, just observations from watching him a couple times. I think the read option guys need a much better defense to be succesful, also you better have a damn good back-up QB because more than likely your starter is gonna get hurt!

QBs also tend to take awful hits as a sitting duck in the pocket. And far too often, a QB who runs and refuses to slide tends to put himself at a greater risk on non-designed runs than on designed runs in which blocking schemes are in place.

IMO, designed runs are safer than simply taking off and running. That stated, a QB that is a major threat to run may force an opposing team to eschew man defense; you don't want your DBs running down-field with their backs to a QB who has taken off and is heading down-field.

[Hillsdale87]

And look at all the SBs he racked up with Randy Moss. Who is better than any WR Manning ever had.

And would you like to talk bout the defensive side of the football during that time? List the players there? As i said earlier, in his first SB winning year he led the Pats to TWO offensive TDs in the postseason. Not two TD passes. 2 TOTAL TDs.

Brady had Moss for two years and his team had one of the greatest seasons in NFL history in one of them.

[RedTeamGo!]

LOL

Exactly - just as laughable as your demand for links to Kingspoints claims.

[Revering4Blue]

Man, that Manning kool-aid must taste delicious.

You honestly look at a 2nd year WR with 641 yards and 8 TDs with Kyle Orton and Tim Tebow at QB as a nobody? Come on man, step back for a minute and realize the guy has talent wherever he goes. It looks like Decker is going to sign elsewhere as a FA, so we will see how he performs. Maybe he will sign with the Patriots.
The Manning negativity has been pretty rampant here, too.

[RedTeamGo!]

Fine. Do you want to address any of the rest of the post?

How about these playoff numbers:

Manning has led his team to 1 winning drive in the playoffs

Brady has led his team to 6 winning drives in the playoffs

Playoff record:

Brady: 18-8
Manning: 9-12

[indyscott]

Man, that Manning kool-aid must taste delicious.

You honestly look at a 2nd year WR with 641 yards and 8 TDs with Kyle Orton and Tim Tebow at QB as a nobody? Come on man, step back for a minute and realize the guy has talent wherever he goes. It looks like Decker is going to sign elsewhere as a FA, so we will see how he performs. Maybe he will sign with the Patriots.

Like when Stokely left the Colts? or Marcus Pollard? Who was an all pro TE for the Colts.

Its not "Kool Aid" its just i recognize arguably the greatest QB to ever play. If you want to try and downplay his achievements have at it.

You watched so much of Decker you thought Tebow threw 8 TDs to him. But now he was spectacular because he caught 50 passes in his first 2 years in Denver.

You have yet to answer me though.Do you think Brady has gotten so much worse in his career? He was 10-0 in his first 10 post season games but 8-8 since. Why do you think that is happening?

[indyscott]

How about these playoff numbers:

Manning has led his team to 1 winning drive in the playoffs

Brady has led his team to 6 winning drives in the playoffs

Playoff record:

Brady: 18-8
Manning: 9-12

LOL. Game winning drives? LMAO. You really want to use GW drives?

[Kingspoint]

The NFC was a more dominant conference top to bottom.

There was no Defense in the AFC, where AFC teams only played NFC teams three times out of 16 games exposing themselves to very little quality Defenses on the season.

Carolina and San Francisco also would have whipped the Broncos.

[Hillsdale87]

Do you have any links to these claims?

Demaryius Thomas probably has the best size/speed combo of any WR other than Calvin Johnson. Julius Thomas is easily in the top 5 for most athletic TEs. Decker was a great college receiver and had solid numbers with Orton as QB. These guys are better because of Manning, but this is an elite receiving corps regardless.

[indyscott]

Brady had Moss for two years and his team had one of the greatest seasons in NFL history in one of them.

But never won a SB. Which I am seeing here is the ultimate grade for a QB.

Its funny. If Manning took the Colts to 16-0 with the greatest offense ever, and laid an egg in the SB scoring 14 points they would kill him in the media and social media. NOW Brady does it and its some accomplishment.

[indyscott]

Demaryius Thomas probably has the best size/speed combo of any WR other than Calvin Johnson. Julius Thomas is easily in the top 5 for most athletic TEs. Decker was a great college receiver and had solid numbers with Orton as QB. These guys are better because of Manning, but this is an elite receiving corps regardless.

I guess we will see when he leaves

[RedTeamGo!]

Like when Stokely left the Colts? or Marcus Pollard? Who was an all pro TE for the Colts.

Its not "Kool Aid" its just i recognize arguably the greatest QB to ever play. If you want to try and downplay his achievements have at it.

You watched so much of Decker you thought Tebow threw 8 TDs to him. But now he was spectacular because he caught 50 passes in his first 2 years in Denver.

You have yet to answer me though.Do you think Brady has gotten so much worse in his career? He was 10-0 in his first 10 post season games but 8-8 since. Why do you think that is happening?

You are aware Stokely only had 1 good season out of 4 in Indy, right?

How did Reggie Wayne have 1,355 receiving yards with a rookie Andrew Luck throwing to him in 2012? I was told he was only good because of Peyton Manning.

[indyscott]

You are aware Stokely only had 1 good season out of 4 in Indy, right?

How did Reggie Wayne have 1,355 receiving yards with a rookie Andrew Luck throwing to him in 2012? I was told he was only good because of Peyton Manning.

I am not sure who told you Wayne wasnt good. they are wrong. And Luck isnt real bad himself in case you havent noticed.

You realize Stokeley was a 4th option with the Colts? And his 2 best TD seasons out of the 15 in the NFL were with Peyton being his QB?

[Kingspoint]

Demaryius Thomas probably has the best size/speed combo of any WR other than Calvin Johnson.

Again for indyscott, those who paid attention to the Broncos before Manning got there, know of Demaryius' development.

He was considered a reach by Denver because his fundamentals were so raw, but was taken by Elway in the middle of the 1st round, who recognized what Hillsdale87 said in the above quote.

In Demaryius' second season, John Fox' Offense had him moving around from X to Y to Z, not settling in until mid-December on the right outside. Orton, who never had the ability to target a second option, had very little opportunity to even target Demaryius, as he never knew where he was at week-to-week. Demaryius was also learning to block as a Receiver, limiting his on-the-field snaps. Demaryius was also working on improving his hands, as he had stone hands his first year and three-fourths.

Then, when Tebow began to play Quarterback, there were very few targets available. Tebow struggled to throw the ball within 10 yards of his intended target most of the time, so any Receiver struggled to catch anything thrown his way.

Finally, in December, Tebow figured out that his best option at throwing the ball was to target Thomas, who received over 50% of Tebow's targets the last month of the season. 50% of Tebow's targets still translated into very few "catchable" balls, but Demaryius' uber-talent managed to corral enough in to average over 115 yards over a three-game stretch in December once he was settled into one position.

The growth of Demaryius was obvious to all watching. He had grown into his first round draft status by the end of his second season.

Decker's talent was even more obvious, as he was able to succeed in the slot where Tebow was getting him killed with errant throws.

None of this takes away from Peyton, but you're obsessed with his abilities, seeming to believe that Receivers he throws to are great because he throws to them. That's simply not the case with Denver's Receivers of Julius Thomas, Eric Decker and Demaryius Thomas. While Peyton's volume of throws and ability to hit Receivers like Decker and Julius Thomas in stride, Peyton's lack of arm-strength the last two seasons could not take advantage of Demaryius' strength of speed. Demaryius averaged over 17 yards per reception with Tebow throwing him the ball, but that dipped into the 14's both seasons Peyton threw him the ball, as Peyton knows that he is going to be most successful throwing short passes to these Receivers. Demaryius and Decker were among the league leaders in Yards-after-Catch both this season and last season. Some of that is Peyton leading them with a pass while also looking off the Defender, and some of that is the uber-talents of Decker and Demaryius.

[Kingspoint]

But never won a SB. Which I am seeing here is the ultimate grade for a QB.

Its funny. If Manning took the Colts to 16-0 with the greatest offense ever, and laid an egg in the SB scoring 14 points they would kill him in the media and social media. NOW Brady does it and its some accomplishment.

Brady lost to a hot Quarterback, a hot team and an excellent Head Coach in Tom Coughlin. That year the Giants won in Green Bay with a healthy Aaron Rodgers...a rare accomplishment by any team. In addition, losing 17-14 by a fluke catch from a TE who never did anything else his whole career, wasn't exactly the kind of performance that Peyton and the Broncos displayed yesterday.

[indyscott]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/03/20/adot-adjusted-completion-percentage/

Manning was 3rd last year in pass completion % 10-19 yards and 4th in pass completion % over 20 yards.

My guess is that the drop in yards/catch is mostly due to him actually catching more balls. Most players that are at the top of the league in that category are deep threats who dont catch as many balls.

[indyscott]

Brady lost to a hot Quarterback, a hot team and an excellent Head Coach in Tom Coughlin. That year the Giants won in Green Bay with a healthy Aaron Rodgers...a rare accomplishment by any team. In addition, losing 17-14 by a fluke catch from a TE who never did anything else his whole career, wasn't exactly the kind of performance that Peyton and the Broncos displayed yesterday.

They scored 14 points. You can spin it any way ya want but Manning would have been roasted.

[RedTeamGo!]

They scored 14 points. You can spin it any way ya want but Manning would have been roasted.

I feel like the NFL adores Manning. I think this talk of Manning being roasted is a bit overblown.

Would Bill Simmons roast him? Of course, but he is also a huge Patriots fan.

[indyscott]

I feel like the NFL adores Manning. I think this talk of Manning being roasted is a bit overblown.

Would Bill Simmons roast him? Of course, but he is also a huge Patriots fan.

You are kidding right?

[RedTeamGo!]

You are kidding right?

I have not listened to any sports radio and do not currently have cable television so I may be missing out on the roasting. I just googled "Peyton Manning" and did not really see anything overly negative. The one article said "Manning still an all time great after super bowl flop." Can't really disagree with saying Manning's performance last night was a flop. I googled "Super Bowl" and nothing really came up roasting Manning.

It just seemed to me most of this season Manning was getting heaps and heaps of praise and Brady was actually being roasted a bit.

I think the fans roast Manning a lot, but he looks so goofy, that it is pretty easy, and as I said, when you are the sport's Golden Boy you are a big target.

[RedsBaron]

Brady lost to a hot Quarterback, a hot team and an excellent Head Coach in Tom Coughlin. That year the Giants won in Green Bay with a healthy Aaron Rodgers...a rare accomplishment by any team. In addition, losing 17-14 by a fluke catch from a TE who never did anything else his whole career, wasn't exactly the kind of performance that Peyton and the Broncos displayed yesterday.

Actually, in 2007 when the Patriots went 16-0 in the regualr season before losing to the Giants, 17-14, in the Super Bowl, Green Bay's starting QB was Brett Favre. Aaron Rodgers was Green Bay's starting QB in 2011 when Brady and the Pats lost another Super Bowl to the Giants.

[RedsBaron]

How about these playoff numbers:

Manning has led his team to 1 winning drive in the playoffs

Brady has led his team to 6 winning drives in the playoffs

Playoff record:

Brady: 18-8
Manning: 9-12

Manning's playoff record is 11-12, not 9-12. It still isn't a terrific team record in the playoffs.

[Mutaman]

Manning's playoff record is 11-12, not 9-12. It still isn't a terrific team record in the playoffs.

11 -12 is pretty poor when you consider that many of those games were played on an artificial surface in a dome where I suspect Peyton had a significant advantage.

[Mutaman]

Actually, in 2007 when the Patriots went 16-0 in the regualr season before losing to the Giants, 17-14, in the Super Bowl, Green Bay's starting QB was Brett Favre. Aaron Rodgers was Green Bay's starting QB in 2011 when Brady and the Pats lost another Super Bowl to the Giants.

On both occassions Eli came into Green Bay in bad weather and beat good Packer teams with great quarterbacks in their own building, and then went on to win the Super bowl. Eli is the anti- Peyton.

[dubc47834]

QBs also tend to take awful hits as a sitting duck in the pocket. And far too often, a QB who runs and refuses to slide tends to put himself at a greater risk on non-designed runs than on designed runs in which blocking schemes are in place.

IMO, designed runs are safer than simply taking off and running. That stated, a QB that is a major threat to run may force an opposing team to eschew man defense; you don't want your DBs running down-field with their backs to a QB who has taken off and is heading down-field.

Yeah but those QB's who take off and run, whether by design or not, are entitled to less protections than those who don't. Once a QB has broke the DT's they are considered a runner and can be hit as such. Just my opinion, but if I had my choice I would take a pocket passer over a running QB any day of the week. I can't think of 1 running QB I would take over even an Andrew Luck.

[dubc47834]

How about these playoff numbers:

Manning has led his team to 1 winning drive in the playoffs

Brady has led his team to 6 winning drives in the playoffs

Playoff record:

Brady: 18-8
Manning: 11-12

Corrected

[RedTeamGo!]

Yeah but those QB's who take off and run, whether by design or not, are entitled to less protections than those who don't. Once a QB has broke the DT's they are considered a runner and can be hit as such. Just my opinion, but if I had my choice I would take a pocket passer over a running QB any day of the week. I can't think of 1 running QB I would take over even an Andrew Luck.

Well, Andrew Luck is probably the most talented of the new generation of QBs, so that is not really stepping out too far onto a ledge.

[Roy Tucker]

I think the Seahawks defense just beat the snot out of the Bronco offense as a collection. Manning did his dinks and dunks but the Seahawks defense just laid the wood on them and gave them no yards after the catch. And Manning has little time to throw. Brees and Kaepernick got similar rude treatment in their playoff games. Seahawks D is just state of the art now. Offenses will adjust next year.

[RedTeamGo!]

Corrected

Yep, someone else already corrected me. Math is not my strong suit, ha.

11-12 is still pretty crappy for someone as incredible as Peyton.

Is it possible for the Greatest of all time to be below .500 in the playoffs when facing off against the best competition?

[Revering4Blue]

Yeah but those QB's who take off and run, whether by design or not, are entitled to less protections than those who don't. Once a QB has broke the DT's they are considered a runner and can be hit as such. Just my opinion, but if I had my choice I would take a pocket passer over a running QB any day of the week. I can't think of 1 running QB I would take over even an Andrew Luck.

Given his age, I can't think of any QB I'd rather have than Luck, who, himself, is as good of an athlete as any of the "read-option" QBs out there.

[dubc47834]

Well, Andrew Luck is probably the most talented of the new generation of QBs, so that is not really stepping out too far onto a ledge.

You're right, its not stepping out much, Im just trying to make my point. I would take just about any of the starting pocket QB's over any of the good running QB's, except for possibly Cam Newton. I don't consider Russel Wilson a running QB either. I consider him more of a pocket QB.

[RedTeamGo!]

I consider him a pocket QB as well, but he has the escapability of running QBs and is not afraid to run for a first down. The same goes for Luck who is capable of picking up chunks of yards by running.

[Kingspoint]

Actually, in 2007 when the Patriots went 16-0 in the regualr season before losing to the Giants, 17-14, in the Super Bowl, Green Bay's starting QB was Brett Favre. Aaron Rodgers was Green Bay's starting QB in 2011 when Brady and the Pats lost another Super Bowl to the Giants.

Yes. I remember the picks from Favre.

[Kingspoint]

Troy Aikman said it best. At the end of the day, Peyton Manning is one of the five best Quarterbacks of all-time. Where among the five doesn't matter. He's one of the five.

[Kingspoint]

Seahawks D is just state of the art now. Offenses will adjust next year.

Not a chance.

They were great in 2011 (#2 Pass Coverage unit in the NFL per PFF). They were great in 2012 (#1 Pass Coverage unit in the NFL per PFF). Teams were even worse against them in 2013 (Not only #1 Pass Coverage unit in the NFL per PFF, but #1 Pass Rush unit, #4 Run Defensive unit, and #1 Defensive unit Overall per PFF). Teams not only haven't adjusted, but have gotten worse against them each season. Teams will be as bad against them in 2014 as in 2013. Seattle's Offense will be better as a passing unit, making the Seahawks' Defense that much better.

The Seahawks will once again be competing for the NFC Championship (next year's true Super Bowl, just as it was this season).

[Mutaman]

Troy Aikman said it best. At the end of the day, Peyton Manning is one of the five best Quarterbacks of all-time. Where among the five doesn't matter. He's one of the five.

Aikman said lots of things yesterday. Peyton has won 5 MVPs. That's quite a legacy. But he had an opportunity yesterday to shut up the naysayers, the same way Elway did in the 90s. Instead he turned in what may have been the most embarrassing performance by an elite QB in memory. He was literally hanging his head in the 2nd quarter.

[RedsBaron]

I think the Seahawks defense just beat the snot out of the Bronco offense as a collection. Manning did his dinks and dunks but the Seahawks defense just laid the wood on them and gave them no yards after the catch. And Manning has little time to throw. Brees and Kaepernick got similar rude treatment in their playoff games. Seahawks D is just state of the art now. Offenses will adjust next year.

Seattle went up against three of the very best QBs in the NFL in the playoffs and handled them pretty well. The Seahawks have been made the very, very early, early favorites to repeat next season. Others have observed that the Ravens were an early favorite last year, but Baltimore lost some significant players from their Super Bowl champions whereas Seattle is a young team who may have everyone back. Their D is indeed the current state of the art, just nasty.

[Chip R]

If a defense can bring the kind of pressure, no matter how great the QB is, Manning(s), Brady, Favre, Elway, Starr, whomever, they are not going to have a good game.

[RedsBaron]

Troy Aikman said it best. At the end of the day, Peyton Manning is one of the five best Quarterbacks of all-time. Where among the five doesn't matter. He's one of the five.

The game has changed so much over the years that it is hard to confidently say who the top five QBs of all time are. The game in Sammy Baugh's era was different that the game in Otto Graham's prime in the 1950s, which had changed again by the prime of Johnny Unitas and Bart Starr in the 1960s, as no longer did players play both ways (Baugh and Graham were defensive backs as well as quarterbacks, while Baugh was also the best punter in the NFL).
By the 1970s and the era of Roger Staubach, Kenny Stabler and Terry Bradshaw, defenses ruled in the game until the rules were changed after 1977 to favor the passing game. In the 1980s Joe Montana perfected the "west coast offense" Bill Walsh first developed with the Bengals and offenses became more scripted, while Dan Marino broke virtually every passing record there was. The 1990s saw John Elway, Brett Favre, Steve Young and Aikman. The last decade and a half added Aaron Rodgers, Peyton Manning, Drew Bees and Tom Brady to the mix, and I have left out a bunch more (and yes the careers of some of the QBs I mentioned overlapped eras).
That's nearly 20 QBs right there. Who are the top five?

[Kingspoint]

Seattle went up against three of the very best QBs in the NFL in the playoffs and handled them pretty well. The Seahawks have been made the very, very early, early favorites to repeat next season. Others have observed that the Ravens were an early favorite last year, but Baltimore lost some significant players from their Super Bowl champions whereas Seattle is a young team who may have everyone back. Their D is indeed the current state of the art, just nasty.

No oddsmakers saw the Ravens as even a remote consideration to win the Super Bowl going into this season with the huge losses on Defense as you mentioned (plus Boldin), decrepit Receiving Corps, poor Offensive Line, and aged Ray Rice. They were never expected to make the playoffs, but for a few people who failed to look at their individual players who would be starting for them in 2013. The Ravens over-achieved with the record they did finish with. While the 49er's were the odds-on favorites by most experts, the Seahawks were the second most likely team to win the Super Bowl going into this last season. Personally, I couldn't see any team beating the Seahawks other than the 49er's going into this season.

Next season's favorites in my opinion, of course:

#1 Seattle
#2 Carolina
#3 San Francisco
#4 New Orleans
#5 Philadelphia (there's no such thing as "adjusting" to Chip Kelly next season, as he hasn't even begun to unleash his knowledge onto the league, while he'll be in on his first draft as a Head Coach trying to add players to his club both on Offense and on Defense for the first time....Philadelphia will be much better, though they aren't likely to win a playoff game in the dominating NFC)
#6 Denver
#7 San Diego
#8 Indianapolis
#9 Cincinnati
#10 Arizona

[SunDeck]

Aikman said lots of things yesterday. Peyton has won 5 MVPs. That's quite a legacy. But he had an opportunity yesterday to shut up the naysayers, the same way Elway did in the 90s. Instead he turned in what may have been the most embarrassing performance by an elite QB in memory. He was literally hanging his head in the 2nd quarter.

There's really not a lot a QB can do when his offensive line is collapsing around him all night. Manning calls the plays, so it's probably right to be critical of him for that, but to me this seemed like one team coming in and having their way with the other team at every position.

[Kingspoint]

The game has changed so much over the years that it is hard to confidently say who the top five QBs of all time are. The game in Sammy Baugh's era was different that the game in Otto Graham's prime in the 1950s, which had changed again by the prime of Johnny Unitas and Bart Starr in the 1960s, as no longer did players play both ways (Baugh and Graham were defensive backs as well as quarterbacks, while Baugh was also the best punter in the NFL).
By the 1970s and the era of Roger Staubach, Kenny Stabler and Terry Bradshaw, defenses ruled in the game until the rules were changed after 1977 to favor the passing game. In the 1980s Joe Montana perfected the "west coast offense" Bill Walsh first developed with the Bengals and offenses became more scripted, while Dan Marino broke virtually every passing record there was. The 1990s saw John Elway, Brett Favre, Steve Young and Aikman. The last decade and a half added Aaron Rodgers, Peyton Manning, Drew Bees and Tom Brady to the mix, and I have left out a bunch more (and yes the careers of some of the QBs I mentioned overlapped eras).
That's nearly 20 QBs right there. Who are the top five?

Couldn't agree more about the attempt to compare Quarterbacks from different era's. You can't use statistics to back up any opinions. The statistics simply are meaningless for dozens of reasons (though I'd like to point out the 49er's all-time record of 1-7 in playoff games on the road).

I'm not agreeing with Aikman about Manning being Top-5, necessarily, but I agree that it's too difficult to come up with a definitive ranking. So many Quarterbacks played like the best there ever was, if only for two or three seasons, such as Kenny Stabler, Joe Namath, and Terry Bradshaw, while others were so much a product of the team they played for such as Bart Starr, Joe Montana, again Terry Bradshaw, and Troy Aikman.

My Top-5:

Johnny Unitas
Otto Graham
Tom Brady
Roger Staubach
Kenny Stabler (many wouldn't rank him in their top-50, but he's in my top-5)

[Mutaman]

Next season's favorites in my opinion, of course:

#1 Seattle
#2 Carolina
#3 San Francisco
#4 New Orleans
#5 Philadelphia (there's no such thing as "adjusting" to Chip Kelly next season, as he hasn't even begun to unleash his knowledge onto the league, while he'll be in on his first draft as a Head Coach trying to add players to his club both on Offense and on Defense for the first time....Philadelphia will be much better, though they aren't likely to win a playoff game in the dominating NFC)
#6 Denver
#7 San Diego
#8 Indianapolis
#9 Cincinnati
#10 Arizona

You don't have Green Bay in your top 10? Think ARod is going to break his collarbone again? Please PM me, maybe we can work something out. The boys in Vegas have Green bay at 16 -1 which is 5th best. Maybe I can do better with you.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/ravens-insider/bal-ravens-face-long-odds-to-win-next-years-super-bowl-20140203,0,2411767.story

[SunDeck]

One way to rank players is to consider what they've added to the game. Peyton Manning is like a cross between an O-coordinator and a QB. Are there other players who have had such a free hand to call their own plays? If not, and let's say other teams start allowing their quarterbacks to do the same, then doesn't it argue for him to be a top five QB?

I kind of doubt it will happen; Manning seems unique in that regard. But what quarterbacks would you consider to have changed the way the position is played?

Fran Tarkenton, maybe?

During his career, Tarkenton ran for a touchdown in 15 different seasons, an NFL record among quarterbacks. He ranks fourth in career rushing yards among quarterbacks, behind Randall Cunningham, Steve Young and Michael Vick. He is also one of two NFL quarterbacks ever to rush for at least 300 yards in seven different seasons; the other is Tobin Rote. Inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 1986. Vikings head coach Bud Grant flatly called Tarkenton "the greatest quarterback who's ever played." When he retired, Tarkenton held NFL career records in pass attempts, completions, yardage, and touchdowns; rushing yards by a quarterback; and wins by a starting quarterback.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fran_Tarkenton#Professional_football_career

[RedsBaron]

My Top-5:

Johnny Unitas
Otto Graham
Tom Brady
Roger Staubach
Kenny Stabler (many wouldn't rank him in their top-50, but he's in my top-5)

There must be two dozen guys I would consider for the top 5, and I will doubtless change my mind after I post this, but I finally came up with my top five based on an analysis similar to how I sometimes rank starting pitchers. For pitchers, it comes down to who I would want to start game seven of the World Series, which is why Sandy Koufax and Bob Gibson rank higher for me than a lot of 300 game winners. For quarterbacks, it largely comes down to who I want behind center when there are two minutes left in the game and my team is losing, or who do I not want as the QB of the opponent when my team is trying to hold a lead at the end. I don't ignore career accomplishments (or Ken Stabler would be in my top five), but here is my top five:
5. Tom Brady. I can't argue with his record. But for two rallies by Eli Manning he could have five Super Bowl rings.
4. Bart Starr. He may be 4th on this list, but there is no NFL player ever that I respect more than Mr. Starr, who has five titles and was great in the clutch. He outplayed great QBs again and again when it mattered most. He would have been great in a west coast offense as well.
3. John Elway. He had a ton of great comebacks and had the arm and athletic ability to have been great in any era.
2. Roger Staubach. Captain Comeback also had the arm and mobility to thrive in any era.
1. Joe Montana. His resume against the Bengals is argument enough.

I loved Stabler, but his period of greatness only lasted four or five seasons, too short to make my top five or ten.

[dubc47834]

Aikman said lots of things yesterday. Peyton has won 5 MVPs. That's quite a legacy. But he had an opportunity yesterday to shut up the naysayers, the same way Elway did in the 90s. Instead he turned in what may have been the most embarrassing performance by an elite QB in memory. He was literally hanging his head in the 2nd quarter.

I think your memory is foggy muta....the performance by the whole team was subpar, not just Manning. Arguments could be made that neither interception was Mannings fault. Any game where you break a Super Bowl record for completions isn't one of the most embarrassing games, even if you don't win said game!

[Wonderful Monds]

I think your memory is foggy muta....the performance by the whole team was subpar, not just Manning. Arguments could be made that neither interception was Mannings fault. Any game where you break a Super Bowl record for completions isn't one of the most embarrassing games, even if you don't win said game!

Hey I'm one of the biggest Peyton apologists today after that game, but no argument can be made for the second interception being anything but 100% on Manning and Manning. That was legitimately one of the dumbest throws I've ever seen an NFL QB make.

[dubc47834]

Hey I'm one of the biggest Peyton apologists today after that game, but no argument can be made for the second interception being anything but 100% on Manning and Manning. That was legitimately one of the dumbest throws I've ever seen an NFL QB make.

The one where his elbow was hit?

[dubc47834]

Hey I'm one of the biggest Peyton apologists today after that game, but no argument can be made for the second interception being anything but 100% on Manning and Manning. That was legitimately one of the dumbest throws I've ever seen an NFL QB make.

Just looked it up on YouTube, he was going deep on that play. The depending on where he was throwing it, he coulda been throwing him open. But with getting hit on the elbow the ball popped up and the other receiver coming outa the backfield didn't even try to get the ball. I'm not seeing how that was Peytons fault.the first one, I could go either way on. Denver has said that the receiver broke off the route early, who knows, you could see the coaching staff immediately talking to Thomas on the sideline afterwards. If you want tom give that to Peyton i wouldn't argue much on that one.

[Mutaman]

Any game where you break a Super Bowl record for completions isn't one of the most embarrassing games, even if you don't win said game!


Michael Kay on ESPN referred to this "record" today and said it proved the truth of Vin Scully's statement:

"Statistics are used much like a drunk uses a lamppost: for support, not illumination."

[Mutaman]

The one where his elbow was hit?

Hey Dub- I think you might have a shot at this competition.
If you win, can i get a finder's fee? :)


http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/02/new-york-competition-no-13.html

The early favorite: "Wait, it started at six-thirty?"

[Kingspoint]

You don't have Green Bay in your top 10? Think ARod is going to break his collarbone again? Please PM me, maybe we can work something out. The boys in Vegas have Green bay at 16 -1 which is 5th best. Maybe I can do better with you.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/ravens-insider/bal-ravens-face-long-odds-to-win-next-years-super-bowl-20140203,0,2411767.story

It's the Packers' Defense.

Their Run-Defense was 5th worst in the NFL.
Their Pass-Rush was 4th worst in the NFL.
Their Pass-Coverage was 20th in the NFL.
Their Special Teams was 3rd worst in the NFL.

Those are four major areas of concern that even a healthy Aaron Rodgers can't overcome. One draft with one free agency period can't begin to get their Defense to respectability. Overall, they aren't as good as Arizona, Kansas City, or San Diego, who did not make my Top-10. New England probably has good low odds, but they aren't in my Top-12, either, and maybe not my Top-15.

The Packers are a mirror image of Atlanta...great Quarterback with one great Wide Receiver and some other good ones, but no Tight End and an Offensive Line with major problems (though much, much better than Atlanta's) and a horrible Defense.

The Packers need at least half a dozen new starters on Defense out of the 11 positions. They are a complete mess. There just isn't any talent there.

Rodgers has had great seasons in the past behind bad Offensive Lines. He has two solid players in Sitton and Lang. Bahktiari played decently for a Rookie O-Lineman. They'll go with him again hoping he'll improve on what he did this season. The 49er's manhandled him after he began coming on at the end of the season. The same is true of Barclay, an undrafted FA from 2012, who came on the second half as a pass-blocker, but who also was manhandled vs the 49er's. He was terrible at run-blocking all year long. Needs to add strength, while also learning technique. Either way, the Packers need to get competition for him for camp. If they lose Evan Dietrich-Smith to Free Agency, they'll have to replace him with a 4th Round pick from 2013. Giving Rodgers a new Center is going backwards.

The Packers were stupid to use a 4th Round pick on RB Johnathan Franklin last season after they had already grabbed Eddie Lacy (this year's Offensive ROY by the AP). With the team so void of talent, they needed help throughout their Defense, especially their Secondary and D-Line. Getting a player who could help both on Special Teams and in the Secondary or D-Line would have been of much more importance. Dozens of players could have helped more. The very next pick in the draft, William Gholston, played well for Tampa Bay the second half of the season as a D-Lineman.

[Kingspoint]

here is my top five:
5. Tom Brady. I can't argue with his record. But for two rallies by Eli Manning he could have five Super Bowl rings.
4. Bart Starr. He may be 4th on this list, but there is no NFL player ever that I respect more than Mr. Starr, who has five titles and was great in the clutch. He outplayed great QBs again and again when it mattered most. He would have been great in a west coast offense as well.
3. John Elway. He had a ton of great comebacks and had the arm and athletic ability to have been great in any era.
2. Roger Staubach. Captain Comeback also had the arm and mobility to thrive in any era.
1. Joe Montana. His resume against the Bengals is argument enough.



I have no argument against that as a Top-5. Growing up, it was #14 that I wore as a jersey.

[Mutaman]

Sorry mistake. See next post.

[Mutaman]

It's the Packers' Defense.

Their Run-Defense was 5th worst in the NFL.
Their Pass-Rush was 4th worst in the NFL.
Their Pass-Coverage was 20th in the NFL.
Their Special Teams was 3rd worst in the NFL.

Those are four major areas of concern that even a healthy Aaron Rodgers can't overcome. One draft with one free agency period can't begin to get their Defense to respectability. Overall, they aren't as good as Arizona, Kansas City, or San Diego, who did not make my Top-10. New England probably has good low odds, but they aren't in my Top-12, either, and maybe not my Top-15.

The Packers are a mirror image of Atlanta...great Quarterback with one great Wide Receiver and some other good ones, but no Tight End and an Offensive Line with major problems (though much, much better than Atlanta's) and a horrible Defense.

The Packers need at least half a dozen new starters on Defense out of the 11 positions. They are a complete mess. There just isn't any talent there.

Rodgers has had great seasons in the past behind bad Offensive Lines. He has two solid players in Sitton and Lang. Bahktiari played decently for a Rookie O-Lineman. They'll go with him again hoping he'll improve on what he did this season. The 49er's manhandled him after he began coming on at the end of the season. The same is true of Barclay, an undrafted FA from 2012, who came on the second half as a pass-blocker, but who also was manhandled vs the 49er's. He was terrible at run-blocking all year long. Needs to add strength, while also learning technique. Either way, the Packers need to get competition for him for camp. If they lose Evan Dietrich-Smith to Free Agency, they'll have to replace him with a 4th Round pick from 2013. Giving Rodgers a new Center is going backwards.

The Packers were stupid to use a 4th Round pick on RB Johnathan Franklin last season after they had already grabbed Eddie Lacy (this year's Offensive ROY by the AP). With the team so void of talent, they needed help throughout their Defense, especially their Secondary and D-Line. Getting a player who could help both on Special Teams and in the Secondary or D-Line would have been of much more importance. Dozens of players could have helped more. The very next pick in the draft, William Gholston, played well for Tampa Bay the second half of the season as a D-Lineman.

Considering Thompson drafted Lacy in the second round (a really special talent) and Bakhtiari in the fourth round (a solid starting left tackle for years to come), criticising his 2013 draft is being a bit unreasonable wouldn't you agree?

Packers defense was very disappointing last year but what can you excpect when you subtract an all pro playmaker like Matthews. In addition, no NfL team was decimated with injuries like the Packers were last year. yet despite not having perhaps the best quarterback in the game for half the year, they still made the Playoffs and had the 49ers even until the last play of the game. And as we saw, there is little to choose from between Seattle and san francisco, but a big gap between the best in the AFC and the best in the NFC. Packers need a center and some help at linebacker and maybe in the defensive line. Barring injuries they are not that far away.

In any event the boys in Vegas disagree with you, giving the Packers the 5th best odds to win next years Superbowl. But rather you and I talking smack, lets make it interesting. Send me a PM. How about Green Bay vs Philly, best record, even money. i wait to hear from you. I'm sure we can work something out.

[Kingspoint]

Considering Thompson drafted Lacy in the second round (a really special talent) and Bakhtiari in the fourth round (a solid starting left tackle for years to come), criticising his 2013 draft is being a bit unreasonable wouldn't you agree?

Packers defense was very disappointing last year but what can you excpect when you subtract an all pro playmaker like Matthews. In addition, no NfL team was decimated with injuries like the Packers were last year. yet despite not having perhaps the best quarterback in the game for half the year, they still made the Playoffs and had the 49ers even until the last play of the game. And as we saw, there is little to choose from between Seattle and san francisco, but a big gap between the best in the AFC and the best in the NFC. Packers need a center and some help at linebacker and maybe in the defensive line. Barring injuries they are not that far away.

In any event the boys in Vegas disagree with you, giving the Packers the 5th best odds to win next years Superbowl. But rather you and I talking smack, lets make it interesting. Send me a PM. How about Green Bay vs Philly, best record, even money. i wait to hear from you. I'm sure we can work something out.

The Packers' draft was excellent. When you get the Offensive ROY and a Starting O-Lineman in a later round, who as I said, played decently for a Rookie O-lineman, that's an excellent draft. It doesn't remove the stupid mistake of taking Franklin, though, when there was so much need overall on the team.

Yes, the Packers were devastated last season by injuries. WR1, WR2, Slot Receiver, TE, SS, etc., etc. Burnett went from being one of the best Safeties in the NFL and in one season became a liability. I didn't see that coming as I loved Morgan Burnett. You mentioned they need a LB, but of their Defensive areas, LB is their strength, led by Hawk. But, the seriously need a couple of starters on the D-Line along with three new Starters in the Secondary.

That they are in the weakest Division in the NFL helps them tremendously. Chicago is atrocious, Minnesota can't be fixed in one season, even by the great Zimmer, while Detroit is the Cleveland of the NFC. The Packers will win another Division Title, but lose their first round playoff game against whomever they happen to play, as there is just too huge of a disparity between them and the Top-5 teams in the NFC.

I'll pm you tomorrow and we can do something. It's one more way to enjoy the season.

FWIW, I do support the Packers. Always rooting for them when I can. But, first loyalties go to the Bengals, then the Seahawks. But, after that it's probably equal between the Packers, Chargers and Eagles.

[RedsBaron]

Next season's favorites in my opinion, of course:

#1 Seattle
#2 Carolina
#3 San Francisco
#4 New Orleans
#5 Philadelphia (there's no such thing as "adjusting" to Chip Kelly next season, as he hasn't even begun to unleash his knowledge onto the league, while he'll be in on his first draft as a Head Coach trying to add players to his club both on Offense and on Defense for the first time....Philadelphia will be much better, though they aren't likely to win a playoff game in the dominating NFC)
#6 Denver
#7 San Diego
#8 Indianapolis
#9 Cincinnati
#10 Arizona

Your top five are all NFC teams. While I might re-arrange the teams just a bit I generally agree that any team coming out of the NFC will probably be a prohibitive favortie to win the Super Bowl next year. Right now my favorites would be Seattle at no. 1 and San Francisco as 1A.
It is interesting how one league or conference has tended to have long periods of dominance over the other. After the AFL was formed in 1960, the NFL sneered at the perceived lack of quality of AFL teams, a sneer that seemed to be warranted after the Packers easily won the first two Super Bowls in 1967 and 1968.
That sneer disappeared after the Jets and Chiefs won the next two Super Bowls. From 1969 through 1981, the AFL/SFC won 11 out of 13 Super Bowls. At that time NBC telecast AFC games and had an ad referring the "the best of the NFL: The American Football Conference."
There was a brief period of parity in the early 1980s, as the 49ers and Redskins won Super Bowls, but the Raiders then won in dominating fashion in 1984, and with a draft haul of QBs in the 1983 draft that included Elway and Marino, the AFC looked to be ready to extend its reign.
Instead the NFC then won 13 straight Super Bowls from 1985 through 1997, most of them in blow outs.
Denver came into the 1998 Super Bowl as a big underdog, but the Broncos upset the Packers. The AFC then put together a string of winning 9 out of the next 12 Super Bowls.
The NFC has now won four of the last five Super Bowls.

[Slyder]

So, can we finally put to rest the ridiculous notion that only traditional dropback passers are capable of leading teams to Superbowl wins?

It's still a league where defense and running the ball wins championships. Moreno had 5 rushes THE ENTIRE game. Manning tried to single handily win this game and all that did was allow Averill and that line to pin their ears back knowing Denver wasn't even trying to run it.

[IslandRed]

Hey I'm one of the biggest Peyton apologists today after that game, but no argument can be made for the second interception being anything but 100% on Manning and Manning. That was legitimately one of the dumbest throws I've ever seen an NFL QB make.


The one where his elbow was hit?


Just looked it up on YouTube, he was going deep on that play. The depending on where he was throwing it, he coulda been throwing him open. But with getting hit on the elbow the ball popped up and the other receiver coming outa the backfield didn't even try to get the ball. I'm not seeing how that was Peytons fault.

Agree with the latter. QBs make throws under heavy pressure all the time where the arm could be hit during the throw, but it usually isn't. And when it is, the ball usually goes nowhere in particular. It was just one of those today-isn't-your-day deals.

Manning didn't have a good day, but it wasn't one of those games where you can say "if not for Peyton, Denver would have won". It's a team sport and the whole team got pounded in all phases. It reminded me of some of those old Colts playoff games where they would run into a team that just looked better across the board (e.g. the Patriots) and you'd wonder how Indy ended up with such a high seed in the first place.

[bucksfan2]

Manning didn't have a good day, but it wasn't one of those games where you can say "if not for Peyton, Denver would have won". It's a team sport and the whole team got pounded in all phases. It reminded me of some of those old Colts playoff games where they would run into a team that just looked better across the board (e.g. the Patriots) and you'd wonder how Indy ended up with such a high seed in the first place.

Can't help but think the first few plays of the game should have been scripted. It isn't Manning's game, but with SB jitters a muck, a safe call should have been made.

IMO the key play to the game happened early, Kam Chancellor blew up Thomas on a crossing route that Denver loved to play. It pretty much sent a message to Denver that they had the rub routes covered.

Peyton was terrible, happy feet, bad decisions, looked snake bitten the entire game. If you told me before the game it would have been a blow out I would have though Denver would have been on the winning end. In previous SB blowouts you kinda expected them. Can't say I expected a Manning led Denver team to get destroyed.

Did Fox forget how to coach? Did Denver make any half time adjustments? Did Denver forget how to tackle? What in the world happened?

When NE dominated Peyton years ago they used Ty Law to shut down one side of the field. Seattle did pretty much the same thing with Richard Sherman. What was ironic was when Fox showed the replay of Denver WR's they were all blanketed, no one was open. Sherman was right about Manning's ducks, the deep ball looked pretty poor, and those floaters that he was completing in prior games weren't against Seattle.

Russel Wilson played a great game. Made a ton of key 3rd down plays that put Denver away before half.