View Full Version : Ohio State Football 2014
BuckeyeRed27
10-27-2014, 11:08 PM
Rod Smith dismissed from the team.
http://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-football/2014/10/42511/rod-smith-dismissed-from-ohio-state
Whoa. Not critical just surprising.
Yep. But even then, I think they miss out. But let's play the games and see how it sorts out.
That's all they can do. The best teams in the B10 (obviously) are OSU, MSU, Wisconsin, and Nebraska. Minnesota and Nebraska are tied in the West. The Gophers got "exposed" this past week in losing to lowly Illinois. But I don't think that will matter that much because they end the season vs OSU, and then have to travel to Nebraska and Wisconsin. Nebraska has to travel to Wisconsin (Nov 15th). IMO, there s your conference winner (and I think it will be the Badgers).
The East will be determined Nov 8th, and it's in East Lansing too. ;)
RiverRat13
10-28-2014, 08:44 AM
Sounds like there may be more than just Smith who failed a drug test.
bucksfan2
10-28-2014, 08:59 AM
Love my Buckeyes, and was happy to come away from Death Valley at night with a win. The team showed heart, and didn't fold in OT like they easily could have.
But if I'm being objective, I don't think this team has a current argument to be included in the 4 team playoff. Maybe that changes between now and the end of the year, but they're going to need to destroy MSU and Nebraska in order to make a strong enough argument. This is a good team. And it's trending up, and by next year it will be likely be deadly. But this season, I don't think it's a national championship-caliber team.
Being objective is hard to do in college football. Its especially hard when you only get to watch bits and pieces of a teams season. While I don't believe right now that OSU deserves to be in the talk for a potential playoff berth, I have yet to really be impressed by any football team this season. Alabama looks great at home but mortal on the road. The Mississippi schools can look great at times but then average others. A&M went in and waxed SC to open the season but has been a dumpster fire since. FSU has been less than impressive as has ND, who gets props for losing close at FSU.
Personally I don't think there are any great teams in college football this season. I also think the SEC is succeeding at playing the "We are the SEC" card and getting favorable rankings. Hopefully everything plays out and we get an entertaining playoff.
Roy Tucker
10-28-2014, 09:26 AM
Besides the win, one good thing that came out of Sat. night was the freshman QB Barnett rallied himself from a tough second half and pulled out the OT win into the teeth of 106k rabid Penn State fans. Hopefully a learning experience for the young man.
gonelong
10-28-2014, 10:11 AM
Besides the win, one good thing that came out of Sat. night was the freshman QB Barnett rallied himself from a tough second half and pulled out the OT win into the teeth of 106k rabid Penn State fans. Hopefully a learning experience for the young man.
I think it's a learning experience for both sides of the ball. The offense had to score and the defense had to hold to win. Believing you can win games like that is a big step. Knowing you can is another. Doing it is even better.
Almost 3 calendar months until the playoff - lots of time to grow, learn, and gain experience and confidence. Potentially the defense grows fast enough to make them a contender, they have the horses ... but If forced to make a call today, I think they have too far to go in one season to get there.
GL
Sounds like there may be more than just Smith who failed a drug test.
Yeah, there's some other stuff going on there that hasn't come out yet IMO, and the reported failed drug test was simply the last nail in the coffin. The kid has had issues - everything from academics, attitude, missing team meetings, clashes with the coaches, etc. - since he came to the Buckeyes. It's sad.
Yeah, there's some other stuff going on there that hasn't come out yet IMO, and the reported failed drug test was simply the last nail in the coffin. The kid has had issues - everything from academics, attitude, missing team meetings, clashes with the coaches, etc. - since he came to the Buckeyes. It's sad.
I think RiverRat was saying is that other players may have also failed a drug test. But you are right, a failed drug test as a lone/first offense probably would not get you kicked off the team. Rod has obviously had some other issues
LoganBuck
10-29-2014, 09:57 PM
I think RiverRat was saying is that other players may have also failed a drug test. But you are right, a failed drug test as a lone/first offense probably would not get you kicked off the team. Rod has obviously had some other issues
Rod Smith lasted this long because of his talent. I have always been disappointed that he couldn't get more playing time, because he flashes that power back look, but he obviously never had the trust of the coaches, dating back to the Tressel era. I suspect he is one of these guys that gets a look somewhere in the NFL, makes a practice squad, has a brief 5 game run because of injury, and people will say he never played at Ohio State. That is his own fault.
gonelong
11-07-2014, 06:16 PM
OSU has the horses to win again MSU, but I don't see it as a likely outcome. I suspect OSU will have difficulty moving the ball consistently.
I think OSU has to win the turnover battle to win the game - a draw there is almost certainly a loss IMO, unless special teams/field position is significantly in OSUs favor.
I think MSU is the better team at this point, but they aren't in another class.If they played this game 100 times I'd put OSU at winning 40 of them or so.
I hope I am wrong and/or it's one of the 40 instead of the 60. :-)
GL
Roy Tucker
11-08-2014, 11:16 PM
Despite 2 stupid turnovers, OSU is up 28-21 at half. Not at all the game I expected.
HeatherC1212
11-09-2014, 12:05 AM
Buckeyes up 35-24 with one quarter to go!!! Finish it off guys!!!!!!!! :D
OldRightHander
11-09-2014, 12:36 AM
Well, this has been fun.
HeatherC1212
11-09-2014, 01:24 AM
Yay Buckeyes!!!!! :D :D :D :D :D
Roy Tucker
11-09-2014, 01:27 AM
Big win. Didn't expect the offensive explosion.
O-H-I-O
jimbo
11-09-2014, 01:39 AM
The Buckeyes win and Auburn loses, can't imagine a better night.
RedTeamGo!
11-09-2014, 01:56 AM
What a huge win!
villain612
11-09-2014, 05:03 AM
I'm gonna say it...
I want Barrett to keep the job when Miller gets back.
I'm gonna say it...
I want Barrett to keep the job when Miller gets back.
Yeah - that is going to be an interesting decision by Meyer come next season. But how many other teams would love to be in such a "perplexing" situation with two phenom QBs. Meyer has come out and said that Braxton is his QB when he returns - but we'll see if that changes. Personally - and especially after what Barrett did last night vs MSU's defense (he shredded it) - that, IMO, puts up a pretty solid argument that the job is Barrett's.
And - if this team wins out and somehow wins one of those play-off spots - when most write them off due to the VA Tech loss - how can you then bench the kid who was the reason you got there?
Here's an interesting article on Meyer's "problem" ..... http://www.cleveland.com/livingston/index.ssf/2014/10/urban_meyers_future_quarterbac.html
Miller never made the quantum jump in passing that was forecast for him last season.
Ohio State gave up on the passing game in their Big Ten Championship Game upset loss to Michigan State. Miller left yards on the field that night with misses, in a climate-controlled dome, on intermediate passes.
Barrett doesn't have as strong an arm as Miller, but he is more accurate at short and intermediate range. His occasional slight underthrows are better on deep passes than Miller's habit of overthrowing.
Barrett, moreover, seems to be a natural leader. Meyer assigned Miller to leadership development classes because he is not.
It is doubtful Miller will play quarterback in the NFL. Running back or H-back might suit him better. A package of plays built on his mobility, much as the Browns have devised for Johnny Manziel, would give defenses a different challenge after facing a pocket passer. So would wildcat snaps.
Having Barrett at QB, with Miller lining up in the backfield - when both can throw/run - makes an interesting challenge on any defense.
Cooper
11-09-2014, 08:58 AM
Braxton's never gonna be an NFL QB --could you talk him into playing another position? Reminds me of JaMarcus Russell.
Assembly Hall
11-09-2014, 12:13 PM
The Buckeyes win and Auburn loses, can't imagine a better night.
I will drink to that!!!!!!!! LOL
LoganBuck
11-09-2014, 12:32 PM
Braxton's never gonna be an NFL QB --could you talk him into playing another position? Reminds me of JaMarcus Russell.
Denard Robinson is probably a better comp.
gonelong
11-09-2014, 02:20 PM
The youngins are growing up. I didn't see that coming, but it sure was fun to watch!
GL
Kilgore_Trout
11-09-2014, 02:28 PM
Great game! I can't remember the last time my Buckeyes played as complete a game as the one last night. With all those top 10 losses, things really seem to be going our way. The Buckeyes need to keep their heads lowered and take care of business.
I wonder what the chances are that Minnesota cracks the top 25 Tuesday... Probably not good. That loss to Illinois was crushing, but they looked quite impressive in yesterdays drubbing of Iowa. Another top 25 opponent would be nice.
traderumor
11-09-2014, 02:37 PM
The execution on the bomb of Barrett to Smith was probably one of the prettiest plays of the year. Perfect pocket, the throw perfectly led the receiver, and it dropped right into his hands like a feather. It isn't even drawn up that perfectly.
villain612
11-09-2014, 04:49 PM
Last year I anticipated Miller making leaps in his passing game similar to what Troy Smith did from his Sophomore to Junior year. He never really did.
While he's still a duel threat with the run game, the offense is just easily much more explosive under Barrett.
Denard Robinson is probably a better comp.
And, IMO, Denard made the right move (transition) to RB with the Jags.
bucksfan2
11-10-2014, 09:47 AM
That was as fun of a game to watch in a long time from an OSU perspective. That was as well executed of a game as I have seen during the Urban era. I also was very surprised to see Herman open up the play calling and had Barrett throwing the ball all over the yard. It had OSU getting its skill players involved from the get go. I don't mind the read option, but when you have guys like Dontre Wilson, Marshall, Thomas and Smith you have to get them the ball. The defense played well especially considering that MSU made Bosa an afterthought. It was really the first time I have watched Bosa all season not be able to cause havoc.
As for the whole Miller v Barrett debate, Barrett has exceeded my expectations especially since the Va Tech game. I do think he is more refined as a passer, a shifty runner, but also think Miller has the better game breaking ability. I wonder this season what Miller would look like with the better weapons than he ever has had. Its a good problem to have.
traderumor
11-10-2014, 10:41 AM
That was as fun of a game to watch in a long time from an OSU perspective. That was as well executed of a game as I have seen during the Urban era. I also was very surprised to see Herman open up the play calling and had Barrett throwing the ball all over the yard. It had OSU getting its skill players involved from the get go. I don't mind the read option, but when you have guys like Dontre Wilson, Marshall, Thomas and Smith you have to get them the ball. The defense played well especially considering that MSU made Bosa an afterthought. It was really the first time I have watched Bosa all season not be able to cause havoc.
As for the whole Miller v Barrett debate, Barrett has exceeded my expectations especially since the Va Tech game. I do think he is more refined as a passer, a shifty runner, but also think Miller has the better game breaking ability. I wonder this season what Miller would look like with the better weapons than he ever has had. Its a good problem to have.
They took away Bosa and gave us Michael Bennett, who made some big plays as a result. They apparently thought removing Bosa was a key to beating this defense. And about the defense, I do not think that the 37 points fairly reflects how well they played after the first two scores until they got soft with the lead in the 4th quarter. This kind of reminds me of the Earle Bruce era, where the offense was potent and resulted in some high scoring games.
RedTeamGo!
11-10-2014, 11:55 AM
I don't even consider next season a QB controversy. JT Barrett without a doubt. If Braxton wants to play he will have to play WR or RB. If Braxton is starting QB next year it will be one of the worst coaching decisions I will have ever seen.
Sorry, Brax but sometimes injuries happen and you get surpassed by a younger play that is better than you.
BuckeyeRed27
11-10-2014, 12:56 PM
I'll worry about the Barret vs. Braxton debate next year, but it's a great problem to have.
This Minnesota game is such a classic let down game coming off a big win. We should win by 4 TDs but I can see it being close. Only supposed to be about 25 degrees at kick off and it is an 11am local kick.
RedTeamGo!
11-10-2014, 01:15 PM
This Minnesota game is such a classic let down game coming off a big win. We should win by 4 TDs but I can see it being close. Only supposed to be about 25 degrees at kick off and it is an 11am local kick.
This is a good point, and Minnesota is really hyped up because of their big win last week. OSU destroys Minnesota 9/10 times, but I don't like the circumstances.
medford
11-10-2014, 02:24 PM
I agree that its best to worry about the Braxton/Barrett debate until next season, for all we know, Braxton could already be thinking about the rehab/enter the draft plan or perhaps he's on track to graduate and could do a 5th year elsewhere and there is no debate.
However, as a fan, its kind of fun to imagine the possibilities of having Barrett lined up in shotgun, flanked by both Marshall and Miller, 3 guys who can all run and can all throw (I guess Marshall is debatable on the collegiate level throwing). You could potential draw up a ton of plays giving those guys throw/run options that would be tough to defend and unlike anything the college game has seen on a regular basis.
anyhoo, as far as the present, definently an interesting challenge. On paper, OSU should roll, but games are not won on paper, OSU coming off a huge emotional road win that in theory all but wraps up the division on the road against a team looking to make a statement, a team that is going to talk about "stunning the world" and getting to the B10 title game themselves. Can Meyer get them to come out with a workman's like approach, and put up another impressive showing? He should be reminding them that TCU beat Minny by 21 early this season in Texas, and well it wouldn't hurt if they could hang a 28+ point win in Minnesota.
the beauty of college football compared to the pros is that there really is no room for a "let down" every week is meaningful, from teams chasing bowl game dreams to teams chasing national title aspirations and everything in between.
medford
11-10-2014, 02:40 PM
just checked the weather, there is a chance the temps are still in the single digits when they kick off at 11:00 am local time. Not exactly ideal temps for the team with better athletes.
LoganBuck
11-10-2014, 02:42 PM
Dontre Wilson has a broken foot, and is likely done for the season. He might be back for the bowl game.
*BaseClogger*
11-10-2014, 07:27 PM
I wonder this season what Miller would look like with the better weapons than he ever has had.
I keep reading stuff like this. Better receivers? I would agree with that. But Miller also had a veteran offensive line and Hyde at running back. The biggest variable is of course probably Herman's playcalling, but if he is more willing to open it up with a freshman than third-year starter Braxton then what does that say about Miller?
15fan
11-10-2014, 07:28 PM
I'd love to see a line up with Barret in the shotgun, flanked by Miller as 1 RB and Jalin Marshall as the other RB. You could create so many iterations of the QB read option / halfback option, it would revolutionize the game.
Roy Tucker
11-10-2014, 10:28 PM
The trouble is, with a 4 team playoff, the playoffs started for OSU in East Lansing on Saturday night. Can't afford any let downs.
BuckeyeRed27
11-11-2014, 12:10 AM
The trouble is, with a 4 team playoff, the playoffs started for OSU in East Lansing on Saturday night. Can't afford any let downs.
Absolutely. Need 3 blow out wins against Minnesota, Indiana and Michigan (all doable) and hope Nebraksa wins out for a Top 10 match up. That should do it unless there are no more upsets (unlikely).
This is a good point, and Minnesota is really hyped up because of their big win last week. OSU destroys Minnesota 9/10 times, but I don't like the circumstances.
And you can't take any opponent lightly either. When I look at Minnesota, especially on paper, the Bucks should have no problem in this game. But again, that's on paper. ;)
When one looks at their passing game they're tempted to say it's pretty weak, and the Gopher's main strength is running the ball (rushing - 6th in the B10 - 224 yds/G). Their passing yardage/G is dead last in the B10 (140 yds/G), and QB Leidner only averages 19 ATTs/G. The most was 30 vs lowly Illinois, and they lost that game, while he only had 13 ATTs last week in the blowout of Iowa. The key with Leidner though is passing efficiency, and he's 5th in the B10 (134.8). So he gets the most out of those 140 yds thrown per game.
OSU and Minnesota's Run D is 5th and 6th in the B10 respectively (125 yds/137 yds). Now obviously, playing before a home crowd, the Gophers are going to be pumped and go all-out to try and knock off OSU. And IMO, in order for them to do that they are going to have to try and open up their passing game more, test OSU's secondary, and put some points on the board in order to keep pace with the top scoring offense in the B10. What Barrett and this offense did to MSU's defense last weekend (basically scoring at will) really impressed me.
I don't see Minnesota containing OSU. The question is - will OSU's defense contain MInnesota? Meyer's biggest challenge is getting his team ready, and making sure his players don't take the Gophers lightly after such a huge performance in East Lansing.
I'd love to see a line up with Barret in the shotgun, flanked by Miller as 1 RB and Jalin Marshall as the other RB. You could create so many iterations of the QB read option / halfback option, it would revolutionize the game.
Thinking the same thing with all those options at your disposal. My buddy told me the other day - concerning this QB debate going into next year - "You watch. JT will be the starter, and it's because, for some reason, Braxton's shoulder just isn't 100%" ;)
RedFanAlways1966
11-11-2014, 08:34 AM
just checked the weather, there is a chance the temps are still in the single digits when they kick off at 11:00 am local time. Not exactly ideal temps for the team with better athletes.
I know what you are saying, but the weather will be the same for both teams. Better athletes are still better athletes regardless of the weather. Unless we are talking hurricane weather or a blizzard (killing the "speed"). This is the stuff that the media likes to tell us and is nothing more than talk IMO.
bucksfan2
11-11-2014, 09:44 AM
I keep reading stuff like this. Better receivers? I would agree with that. But Miller also had a veteran offensive line and Hyde at running back. The biggest variable is of course probably Herman's playcalling, but if he is more willing to open it up with a freshman than third-year starter Braxton then what does that say about Miller?
Absolutely better WR's and better skill players. Hyde was a beast and the OLine was very good last season. At the same time I think you are seeing the current OLine gel and Zeke is becoming a pretty good RB himself.
Truth be told I think Herman's play calling last season was poor. It got to the point where he knew zone read would win him the game so he continued to do that. When you had a RB who was able to gain yardage on every single carry he had you kept feeding him the ball. While we can look to Barrett's performance throwing the ball this season, I still remember games with Miller at QB against the likes of Nebraska or Wisconsin and PSU last season where they were explosive as can be.
Don't get me wrong I love what Barrett has done, and the last 3 quarters of football against MSU was just about as perfect as could be. I am not ready to chalk Barrett up as a better QB than Miller, but that doesn't mean I don't think OSU is in good hands with Barrett at the helm. One thing I really would wish Barrett would do is to get out of bounds after a 1st down was gained instead of taking on a defender to gain an extra 3 yards. Save your body JT, don't take another hit.
RedTeamGo!
11-11-2014, 01:51 PM
I don't think OSU wins against MSU last Saturday with Miller at QB instead of Barrett.
bucksfan2
11-11-2014, 02:44 PM
I don't think OSU wins against MSU last Saturday with Miller at QB instead of Barrett.
Oh I do. I think OSU is undefeated right now with Miller at QB.
BillDoran
11-11-2014, 03:03 PM
Absolutely better WR's and better skill players. Hyde was a beast and the OLine was very good last season. At the same time I think you are seeing the current OLine gel and Zeke is becoming a pretty good RB himself.
Truth be told I think Herman's play calling last season was poor. It got to the point where he knew zone read would win him the game so he continued to do that. When you had a RB who was able to gain yardage on every single carry he had you kept feeding him the ball. While we can look to Barrett's performance throwing the ball this season, I still remember games with Miller at QB against the likes of Nebraska or Wisconsin and PSU last season where they were explosive as can be.
Don't get me wrong I love what Barrett has done, and the last 3 quarters of football against MSU was just about as perfect as could be. I am not ready to chalk Barrett up as a better QB than Miller, but that doesn't mean I don't think OSU is in good hands with Barrett at the helm. One thing I really would wish Barrett would do is to get out of bounds after a 1st down was gained instead of taking on a defender to gain an extra 3 yards. Save your body JT, don't take another hit.
Just to be clear you're questioning the man at the head of a 2013 offense that finished seventh in the nation in total offense (512 yards per game) and third in scoring offense (45.5 points per game)?
RedTeamGo!
11-11-2014, 03:07 PM
I would argue Carlos Hyde was way more important to the 2013 offense than Braxton Miller. Not to mention the offensive line that graduated 4 linemen to the NFL, all of whom are starting.
bucksfan2
11-11-2014, 03:16 PM
Just to be clear you're questioning the man at the head of a 2013 offense that finished seventh in the nation in total offense (512 yards per game) and third in scoring offense (45.5 points per game)?
Many Buckeye fans question Tom Herman and his play calling.
bucksfan2
11-11-2014, 03:28 PM
I would argue Carlos Hyde was way more important to the 2013 offense than Braxton Miller. Not to mention the offensive line that graduated 4 linemen to the NFL, all of whom are starting.
Last season the offense wasn't the problem. The offense wasn't even close to the problem. It was the worst Buckeye defense I have ever witnessed that caused OSU problems.
RedTeamGo!
11-11-2014, 03:35 PM
Last season the offense wasn't the problem. The offense wasn't even close to the problem. It was the worst Buckeye defense I have ever witnessed that caused OSU problems.
That is very true, but let's not pretend like the defense has been great this year.
I get what you are saying and I think Miller is a very good running back, I mean quarterback, but in 2015 it would be a grave mistake by Meyer to stunt the growth of a young QB who as a RS freshman is breaking OSU records and making a case for the Heisman Trophy in his first year as a QB.
bucksfan2
11-11-2014, 04:00 PM
That is very true, but let's not pretend like the defense has been great this year.
I get what you are saying and I think Miller is a very good running back, I mean quarterback, but in 2015 it would be a grave mistake by Meyer to stunt the growth of a young QB who as a RS freshman is breaking OSU records and making a case for the Heisman Trophy in his first year as a QB.
Here is what I see happening with OSU this season. Urban is starting to play with a cupboard full of his players. Truth be told I don't know what happened with Tressel during his last season or two because you saw a drop off in pure talent on the field at OSU. You always had those bright spots, guys like Shazier, Roby, and Heyward, but it was a far cry from what Tressel was churning out in the mid to late aughts. With each additional game you are seeing a team that is not only getting better, but oozing with talent all over the field. Look at the guys on offense this season and what they can do. You have home run threats in Smith, Marshall, Wilson (until his injury) Zeke, and Thomas. The defense no longer is lets blitz Shazier and hope he gets to the QB. Its a much more balanced with Dorian Grant solidifying himself as that lock down corner, a linebacking corps that is deep and good, as well as a D Line that may possess a 1st rounder and the best OSU defensive player I have ever seen in Bosa.
I guess what I am seeing now is a deeper, more talented OSU team than the previous 2 under Urban. But also a team that is growing and getting better each week. Can they play with the big boys yet? I don't know, but I think the talent across the board is there.
BillDoran
11-11-2014, 05:21 PM
Many Buckeye fans question Tom Herman and his play calling.
Guess I'm a little confused. You may not agree with some of the in-game decision-making, but, boy oh boy, it's tough to argue with the results. Certainly room for some nitpicking, but any sincere criticism of Tom Herman is misplaced.
The offensive system in place is so schematically advanced that guys like Kenny Guiton (god love him, but he wasn't a particularly talented QB) can step in and look like Art Schlichter. Not to mention what's taken place this season.
It's gotta be tough working in Columbus. Fourth most points in the country and we've got criticism.
That is very true, but let's not pretend like the defense has been great this year.
True .... but this Buckeye team is very young. And that youth/inexperience is what cost them, IMO, earlier in the season (VT loss). But as this season has progressed, so has this team as a unit. What cost them earlier in the season is, again IMO, going to be a huge plus in the next few years. This is a very talented (young) squad.
And on a different note - I've watched a lot of CFB this year. Does anyone, including the good teams, play defense?
Assembly Hall
11-12-2014, 10:17 AM
And on a different note - I've watched a lot of CFB this year. Does anyone, including the good teams, play defense?
Michigan State........LOL!!!!!!!!!
traderumor
11-12-2014, 10:57 AM
True .... but this Buckeye team is very young. And that youth/inexperience is what cost them, IMO, earlier in the season (VT loss). But as this season has progressed, so has this team as a unit. What cost them earlier in the season is, again IMO, going to be a huge plus in the next few years. This is a very talented (young) squad.
And on a different note - I've watched a lot of CFB this year. Does anyone, including the good teams, play defense?I think some rule changes are needed that take away some of the offensive strategies that take advantage of rules. One biggie would make plays like the bubble screen a penalty. Blocking downfield while the ball is in the air on any pass play is a tremendously unfair advantage. I also think the "turn and look" that simulates a false start has got to go. Offensive lineman are down in their stance, jump up and turn and look is clearly attempting to draw the defense offsides, just like a hard count, which can be considered illegal. While the latter is not a big offensive source, the bubble screens are.
gonelong
11-12-2014, 12:16 PM
A few notes from Tatoo-gate.
tOSU's probation ends Dec. 19, 2014.
If I read it right, reduction of football scholarships from 85 to 82 ends this year (2014-15 academic year).
I looked back at the 2014 recruiting class and even as some of those players are emerging (Samuel, McMillian, Nuernberger) there is a ton of talent there that has not yet been tapped. While tOSU is interesting this year, I am really excited about next season.
GL
IslandRed
11-12-2014, 04:26 PM
And on a different note - I've watched a lot of CFB this year. Does anyone, including the good teams, play defense?
With all the variations of spread/read-option/up-tempo, dual-threat QBs etc., it's certainly made us re-calibrate our notions of what a good defensive performance is.
As an example, I'll use last year's national championship game. Auburn's offense was magnificent, with an extremely difficult-to-defend read option game and great talent to throw to when they needed to throw. In the latter part of 2013 it was routinely tearing defenses apart. Meanwhile, FSU's defense was perfectly constructed to defend that kind of offense: three hosses across the front who could play two-gap, speedy linebackers who weren't easily fooled, and five DBs who could both cover and tackle. Final tally: 31 points and 450 yards. Sure, two of the touchdown drives were of the 25-yard variety and there was a blown coverage mixed in, but still, FSU spent a good part of that game defending Auburn as well as anyone ever could. And yet, 31 points.
That's just how college football is now. If your defensive line can whip the other team's offensive line, you're in good shape. Otherwise, they're going to move the ball. A defense is just tasked with trying to get enough stops or turnovers to give its offense a chance to win the game.
BillDoran
11-13-2014, 12:53 PM
With all the variations of spread/read-option/up-tempo, dual-threat QBs etc., it's certainly made us re-calibrate our notions of what a good defensive performance is.
As an example, I'll use last year's national championship game. Auburn's offense was magnificent, with an extremely difficult-to-defend read option game and great talent to throw to when they needed to throw. In the latter part of 2013 it was routinely tearing defenses apart. Meanwhile, FSU's defense was perfectly constructed to defend that kind of offense: three hosses across the front who could play two-gap, speedy linebackers who weren't easily fooled, and five DBs who could both cover and tackle. Final tally: 31 points and 450 yards. Sure, two of the touchdown drives were of the 25-yard variety and there was a blown coverage mixed in, but still, FSU spent a good part of that game defending Auburn as well as anyone ever could. And yet, 31 points.
That's just how college football is now. If your defensive line can whip the other team's offensive line, you're in good shape. Otherwise, they're going to move the ball. A defense is just tasked with trying to get enough stops or turnovers to give its offense a chance to win the game.
I would wonder if pick plays in the secondary, essentially an extension of what traderumor mentioned above, will face some scrutiny in the near future. Seems they're becoming an increasingly common and blatant in use.
BuckeyeRed27
11-15-2014, 04:03 PM
Well this should be a massive blow out but Jalin Marshall can't hang onto the ball.
LoganBuck
11-15-2014, 04:35 PM
Take the win, and move on. The final score should have been more like 45-14ish. Blame the weather and move on.
traderumor
11-15-2014, 05:10 PM
Take the win, and move on. The final score should have been more like 45-14ish. Blame the weather and move on.
Its funny, the NCAA thinks they were appeasing folks with a playoff, but they really did nothing. Its still "how much did they win by," and "gotta blow this team out or they are not going to impress the voters." There has been no change, other than it will take two games instead of one to decide what is still a mythical championship.
Assembly Hall
11-15-2014, 05:49 PM
Take the win, and move on. The final score should have been more like 45-14ish. Blame the weather and move on.
Yepper.......a win is a win.
BillDoran
11-15-2014, 06:48 PM
Its funny, the NCAA thinks they were appeasing folks with a playoff, but they really did nothing. Its still "how much did they win by," and "gotta blow this team out or they are not going to impress the voters." There has been no change, other than it will take two games instead of one to decide what is still a mythical championship.
I don't think anyone's deluding enough to believe the playoff is about anything but more money. Sportsmanship and definitive winner, nice packaging.
Roy Tucker
11-15-2014, 07:26 PM
I think Jalen Marshall had a point spread bet ;)
Take the win, and move on. The final score should have been more like 45-14ish. Blame the weather and move on.
While it was a factor, I'm not going to put it all on the weather. But yeah, playing on the road in Minnesota in November ain't fun (LOL). Our stupid miscues obviously kept the Gophers in a game that could have been a blow-out.
But here's is what pees me off, concerning our plan going into this game......
The Gophers don't throw the ball... they had 15 yards passing at halftime (85 total). They rely heavily on the run ... and we let them run the ball down our throats (218 yds total). Why? Why? I would have went into this game stacking the box, stopping the run, and made Leidner beats us. And we saw in this game what happens when he has to throw (especially under pressure). And IMO, he had 3 INTs. That one INT, that was returned for a TD, and then called back for pass interference, was pure BS IMO. Some bad officiating in this game.
But how key was that missed Gopher FG that bounced back off the upright earlier in the game? If they make that, then, with under 2 minutes left in the game, and on OSU's 17 yd line, they wouldn't have had to kick the FG and then try the on-side kick.
This game should not have been as close as it was.
But here is what worries me even more.... I told my buddy the other day that Wisconsin will kill Nebraska. And if the B10 Championship game is OSU vs Wisconsin, then we got one helluva game on our hands. OSU has a more balanced offensive attack because the Badgers, like the Gophers, are weak in the passing game, but stopping Gordon is going to be one heck of a challenge. Wisconsin has the #1 rushing offense in the B10 (5th nationally).
Meyer better have his staff studying the game film from Northwestern's upset of the Badgers back in October (LOL). Gordon got his rushing yardage (259), but the Wildcats had 4 INTs in that game. Our defense is, IMO, going to have to bring their A game.
LoganBuck
11-16-2014, 07:48 AM
If Ohio State can't beat Wisconsin, then they don't deserve to be considered for the playoff. Pretty simple.
As for the shenanigans yesterday. I blame the weather. Not really sure how to argue that point.
If Ohio State can't beat Wisconsin, then they don't deserve to be considered for the playoff. Pretty simple.
Absolutely agree. It's "Put up or shut up" time. But if even they win out ... and there are obviously other variables involved when it comes to the teams ahead of us, and what they do in the next few weeks .... I still say it's an uphill battle for OSU.
We'll move up because of Arizona State's loss; but I doubt Mississippi State falls very far. I see Oregon and Alabama as #1 and #2. After that, as far as the #3 and #4 spots, it could get messy depending on the committee's thinking concerning TCU's struggling to beat terrible Kansas, and FSU having to comeback, once again, to beat the un-ranked Hurricanes. It could very well end up....
1. Oregon
2. Alabama
3. Mississippi State
4. Florida State
5. TCU
6. Baylor
7. Ohio State
8. Ole Miss
The potential for OSU to get in this thing is getting stronger, but, obviously, we not only have to win out but we need some more losses by those teams ahead of us. And that is highly possible too. I don't think Oregon will lose either of their last two remaining games (though I'll be rooting for Oregon State at home). Alabama has a cupcake game next week vs W. Carolina, but finishes (at home) with Auburn. Ole Miss has to go to Arkansas next week (who just shut out LSU) so that is not going to be an easy task. But then they finish with Mississippi State. With 2 losses I don't see Ole Miss having much of a chance, but we need them to beat Mississippi State (which is possible IMO).
TCU and Baylor's only challenge over the next two weeks - and there is no Big 12 conference championship game - is Texas and Kansas State (respectively). There's possibilities there.
In the SEC championship game - the Eastern Division is out of the running for the play-offs. One can only hope that either Missouri or Georgia can pull the upset over Alabama or Mississippi State (whose still in in the hunt).
OSU has to jump up three spots. Possible yes; but a long shot IMO. But first things first... take care of Indiana and then Michigan, then put on a show in the B10 Championship game (which will most likely be Wisconsin).
BuckeyeRed27
11-16-2014, 12:16 PM
OSU will pass the Big 12 teams on resume. They could pass Miss St on resume too but an Ole Miss win would sure be nice.
jimbo
11-16-2014, 12:40 PM
OSU will pass the Big 12 teams on resume. They could pass Miss St on resume too but an Ole Miss win would sure be nice.
I doubt Ohio State will pass up Miss St. based on one loss to Alabama. They are going to need to lose again, which is very possible at Ole Miss.
TCU and Baylor are the wildcards, IMO, especially considering the struggle TCU had with a weak Kansas team last night. Still can't figure why TCU is over Baylor at this point, considering they have identical records and Baylor beat them.
I can also see Florida St. losing to Florida. Muschamp stepping down after the season, his last game, they will be amped to end his career there with a bang. If they lose, they'll probably fall quite a bit, considering they win by the skin of their teeth pretty much every week.
I'm confident enough in saying that if OSU wins out, enough will happen in front of them to vault them to the final four.
dabvu2498
11-16-2014, 03:58 PM
I moved a bunch of posts re: the selection committees rankings that really didn't have much to do with OSU to a more appropo thread. Feel free to continue that conversation there.
Todd Gack
11-17-2014, 11:14 AM
I doubt Ohio State will pass up Miss St. based on one loss to Alabama. They are going to need to lose again, which is very possible at Ole Miss.
TCU and Baylor are the wildcards, IMO, especially considering the struggle TCU had with a weak Kansas team last night. Still can't figure why TCU is over Baylor at this point, considering they have identical records and Baylor beat them.
I can also see Florida St. losing to Florida. Muschamp stepping down after the season, his last game, they will be amped to end his career there with a bang. If they lose, they'll probably fall quite a bit, considering they win by the skin of their teeth pretty much every week.
I'm confident enough in saying that if OSU wins out, enough will happen in front of them to vault them to the final four.
OSU lost to a 5-5 VT team . . . AT HOME. A 1-loss FSU team unquestionably deserves to get in before OSU.
In fact, give me every 2-loss SEC team before OSU too. We've seen this song and dance before.
So you really think OSU
BuckeyeRed27
11-17-2014, 12:33 PM
OSU lost to a 5-5 VT team . . . AT HOME. A 1-loss FSU team unquestionably deserves to get in before OSU.
In fact, give me every 2-loss SEC team before OSU too. We've seen this song and dance before.
So you really think OSU
There is no way a 1 loss FSU team gets in before anybody. They have zero good wins. If OSU wins out they will have 3.
You haven't seen this song and dance before. It's college football, its a new song and dance pretty much every year.
RedTeamGo!
11-17-2014, 01:01 PM
Florida State's best win is against a 3 loss (about to be unranked) Notre Dame team at home that was handed to them by the officials.
Ohio State indeed lost to a 5-5 Va Tech team at home. But they were also starting a freshman QB in his 2nd career start. The OSU team today does not really resemble the team that lost to Va Tech. I think if that game was re-played today OSU would win by 4-5 touchdowns. It cannot be replayed though, and it will certainly hurt them, but FSU has had a worse schedule.
Roy Tucker
11-17-2014, 01:30 PM
I'm ok with the 1 loss teams of Alabama, Miss. St., and Oregon being ranked ahead of OSU.
But the daredevil act of FSU against a weak schedule, not so much. If they stay undefeated, ok. But 1 loss, not so ok.
jimbo
11-17-2014, 03:42 PM
OSU lost to a 5-5 VT team . . . AT HOME. A 1-loss FSU team unquestionably deserves to get in before OSU.
In fact, give me every 2-loss SEC team before OSU too. We've seen this song and dance before.
So you really think OSU
Yes, I do. It should be about the four best teams at the end of the season. OSU is a completely different, and immensely better, team than they were in week 2. The VA Tech loss should be considered, but if multiple teams continue to lose in front of them every week, it becomes less of a black eye. I think OSU can play with any team in the country at this time.
LoganBuck
11-17-2014, 03:45 PM
Yes, I do. It should be about the four best teams at the end of the season. OSU is a completely different, and immensely better, team than they were in week 2. The VA Tech loss should be considered, but if multiple teams continue to lose in front of them every week, it becomes less of a black eye. I think OSU can play with any team in the country at this time.
Any team with a really good QB, should scare the crap out of Ohio State fans. I still don't think they can cover anyone.
bucksfan2
11-17-2014, 04:05 PM
Any team with a really good QB, should scare the crap out of Ohio State fans. I still don't think they can cover anyone.
Who would that be? Mariotta is really the only QB on a team that would scare me. I think OSU's performance against MSU who had a future NFL QB, WR, and RB was telling. They are far from perfect as a team, but so is everyone else in football. While they may have trouble with a really good QB, I think OSU's offense would put the fear of god in other teams.
RedTeamGo!
11-17-2014, 04:10 PM
Who would that be? Mariotta is really the only QB on a team that would scare me. I think OSU's performance against MSU who had a future NFL QB, WR, and RB was telling. They are far from perfect as a team, but so is everyone else in football. While they may have trouble with a really good QB, I think OSU's offense would put the fear of god in other teams.
Teams that I think would blow out OSU:
Alabama
Oregon
That is all.
Redsfaithful
11-17-2014, 04:19 PM
Any team with a really good QB, should scare the crap out of Ohio State fans. I still don't think they can cover anyone.
They can't, but the offense might be able to keep up with anyone in a shootout.
Sea Ray
11-17-2014, 05:35 PM
Teams that I think would blow out OSU:
Alabama
Oregon
That is all.
What about Tennessee? Josh Dobbs looks awfully good...
BuckeyeRed27
11-17-2014, 06:27 PM
What about Tennessee? Josh Dobbs looks awfully good...
Ohio State -16.5
Ohio State -16.5
And that's in Knoxville.
bucksfan2
11-18-2014, 10:23 AM
Teams that I think would blow out OSU:
Alabama
Oregon
That is all.
Don't buy the Oregon hype. Its hype every season and they always seem like they fail to live up to expectations.
RedTeamGo!
11-18-2014, 10:28 AM
Don't buy the Oregon hype. Its hype every season and they always seem like they fail to live up to expectations.
Yeah, I get that, I just think Mariota would carve up the OSU secondary.
RedFanAlways1966
11-18-2014, 10:32 AM
Don't buy the Oregon hype. Its hype every season and they always seem like they fail to live up to expectations.
Perhaps b/c the PAC-10 is near the same top-to-bottom as the Big 10... although we know which conference gets more crap from the media about being weak. Oregon lost AT HOME against Arizona. While Arizona sports a nifty looking W-L record, they are a notch or two above-average IMO.
Assembly Hall
11-18-2014, 10:47 AM
All I can say that a few weeks into the season all the talking heads were calling the BIG a joke. I am so tickled that we are coming down to the end of the season and the Bucks are squarely in the hunt.
BuckeyeRed27
11-18-2014, 08:28 PM
OSU is up to #6 this week. Importantly Minnesota stayed ranked and Winsconsin is at #16.
Todd Gack
11-18-2014, 10:28 PM
Yes, I do. It should be about the four best teams at the end of the season. OSU is a completely different, and immensely better, team than they were in week 2. The VA Tech loss should be considered, but if multiple teams continue to lose in front of them every week, it becomes less of a black eye. I think OSU can play with any team in the country at this time.
You lost to VT. . . .at home. You can't tell me that OSU is playing better simply because they're beating up on Big 10 teams. Who has Michigan State beat this year? Wisconsin?
BuckeyeRed27
11-18-2014, 11:12 PM
You lost to VT. . . .at home. You can't tell me that OSU is playing better simply because they're beating up on Big 10 teams. Who has Michigan State beat this year? Wisconsin?
You would disagree that Ohio State isn't a better football team currently than in Week 2? Yes or no?
RiverRat13
11-19-2014, 12:21 AM
You lost to VT. . . .at home. You can't tell me that OSU is playing better simply because they're beating up on Big 10 teams. Who has Michigan State beat this year? Wisconsin?
Who has anybody beaten this year? There are so few decent nonconference games that it is tough to tell who is legit. That's why I'd love to see the Power 5 split off on their own and only play each other.
Assembly Hall
11-19-2014, 10:11 AM
You lost to VT. . . .at home. You can't tell me that OSU is playing better simply because they're beating up on Big 10 teams. Who has Michigan State beat this year? Wisconsin?
Who has Florida State beat this year?
RedFanAlways1966
11-19-2014, 11:52 AM
C'mon guys. Alabama beat Miss. State so they automatically get to be #1. And Miss. State lost only to Alabama so they get to be in the top 4. Screw Every (other) Conference!
gonelong
11-19-2014, 12:43 PM
Ohio State picked up a nice 2015 commit on Monday: http://247sports.com/Player/Matthew-Burrell-27604
4 star Guard.
joshnky
11-19-2014, 12:52 PM
Who has Florida State beat this year?
Who have they lost to? Given that OSU lost to an ACC team this question is especially humorous.
If OSU was undefeated, they'd be in the top 4 in a similar spot to FSU. Because they have a bad loss they're not going to get placed above teams with a "better" loss.
joshnky
11-19-2014, 01:01 PM
You would disagree that Ohio State isn't a better football team currently than in Week 2? Yes or no?
The whole season matters. If FSU had lost the Clemson game without Jamies Winston they would be outside the playoff despite the fact that they're a much better team with him playing. Every game counts.
Roy Tucker
11-19-2014, 01:04 PM
One other spin on this is that CFP ratings are supposed to take injuries into consideration. And an injury to Braxton Miller thrust the red shirt freshman JT Barrett into a starting role a week before the season started. And anyone who watched that VT game can tell you that OSU started a not-prepared QB who got bamboozled by defensive schemes that directly led to that loss. That same player has progressed now to where he he is mentioned in Heisman discussions.
BuckeyeRed27
11-19-2014, 01:59 PM
The whole season matters. If FSU had lost the Clemson game without Jamies Winston they would be outside the playoff despite the fact that they're a much better team with him playing. Every game counts.
That seems like a long way of saying yes.
Assembly Hall
11-19-2014, 04:43 PM
Who have they lost to? Given that OSU lost to an ACC team this question is especially humorous.
If OSU was undefeated, they'd be in the top 4 in a similar spot to FSU. Because they have a bad loss they're not going to get placed above teams with a "better" loss.
I understand what you are saying and agree.
But my response was to someone who asked who Michigan State or Wisconsin had beaten.
traderumor
11-20-2014, 03:12 PM
One other spin on this is that CFP ratings are supposed to take injuries into consideration. And an injury to Braxton Miller thrust the red shirt freshman JT Barrett into a starting role a week before the season started. And anyone who watched that VT game can tell you that OSU started a not-prepared QB who got bamboozled by defensive schemes that directly led to that loss. That same player has progressed now to where he he is mentioned in Heisman discussions.They lost that game because the Offensive gameplan was to abandon the run, until late second half, when they started moving the ball because someone believed the hype that "you can't run against VT." FWIW, my take on that sore thumb of a loss.
Of course, if Ohio St. was undefeated, they would still be hearing the same "weak schedule" argument, because they do not play in the SEC.
BuckeyeRed27
11-20-2014, 05:26 PM
Some rumors floating around Twitter (so you know it's accurate) that Noah Spence might be reinstated for the last few games of the season.
Update: Sounds like he has a reinstatement hearing next Tuesday. Assuming that goes well he could play against Michigan.
RedTeamGo!
11-22-2014, 04:22 PM
What a garbage performance by OSU. They deserve to drop in the rankings after that stinker.
Assembly Hall
11-22-2014, 05:25 PM
What a garbage performance by OSU. They deserve to drop in the rankings after that stinker.
Are you calling my Hoosiers a slouch? LOL Mizzou has an opinion on that!!!!!!!!
traderumor
11-22-2014, 05:48 PM
Are you calling my Hoosiers a slouch? LOL Mizzou has an opinion on that!!!!!!!!Indiana played about as good as they could play, esp. for 2-1/2 quarters. Herman got gunshy with the play calling after the turnovers. The two quick, easy scores put the Buckeyes to sleep, lost their edge and intensity. But turnovers are always a great equalizer in football and lead to many an upset. It will hurt in the short term, but I think the late rally should have limited the damage. Two wins and shake ups ahead of them will probably still be the going price for their playoff ticket.
Hoosier Red
11-22-2014, 06:10 PM
Give tOSU credit. They looked like a real live SEC team* for about 2 1/2 quarters, but you gotta finish the job to grab the brass ring.
*Provided of course that the real live SEC team is MIZ ZOU.
Assembly Hall
11-22-2014, 06:58 PM
Give tOSU credit. They looked like a real live SEC team* for about 2 1/2 quarters, but you gotta finish the job to grab the brass ring.
*Provided of course that the real live SEC team is MIZ ZOU.
Wink....wink. LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!
Assembly Hall
11-22-2014, 07:00 PM
Indiana played about as good as they could play, esp. for 2-1/2 quarters. Herman got gunshy with the play calling after the turnovers. The two quick, easy scores put the Buckeyes to sleep, lost their edge and intensity. But turnovers are always a great equalizer in football and lead to many an upset. It will hurt in the short term, but I think the late rally should have limited the damage. Two wins and shake ups ahead of them will probably still be the going price for their playoff ticket.
Absolutely dead on!!!!!!!! But forget the Hoosiers beat the Tigers. IU is horrid, but it aint on the offensive side of the ball.
redsfanmia
11-22-2014, 07:19 PM
nm
redsfanmia
11-22-2014, 07:21 PM
Absolutely dead on!!!!!!!! But forget the Hoosiers beat the Tigers. IU is horrid, but it aint on the offensive side of the ball.
Had Sudfeld not got hurt they would be bowl eligible.
Hoosier Red
11-22-2014, 07:56 PM
Absolutely dead on!!!!!!!! But forget the Hoosiers beat the Tigers. IU is horrid, but it aint on the offensive side of the ball.
The offense has put up points(except against tPSU) but they remind me a lot of the Antwaan Randle El years. So dependent on the big play that they put way too much pressure on their own defense which is getting better but is very thin.
Roy Tucker
11-22-2014, 08:17 PM
That Tevin Coleman is really good. Reminds me of Eric Dickerson. Big guy, speed, and power.
Buckeyes need to stay away from turnovers. That will kill them against a good team. At least Marshall hung onto the ball today.
Had Sudfeld not got hurt they would be bowl eligible.
I agree. Losing him in that Iowa game really hurt this team. But this offense can put up the points, and Coleman is one heck of a running back.
In yesterday's game, the turnovers, while obviously an "equalizer" for a lesser opponent, didn't bother me as much as the play of OSU's offensive line, which, IMO, was horrendous. Eliot rushed for 107 yds, but 65 yds of that was the TD run in the very first series. Indiana's defensive front was consistently getting penetration into our backfield in the 2nd and 3rd quarters. Very frustrating to watch.
This is the second week straight that we've played an opponent whose passing game is pretty non-existent, and they rely mainly on the run. OSU coaches knew this, yet we gave up 281 yds rushing yesterday, and 218 last week. Both Cobb and Coleman are solid RBs - but when you know your opponent is weak in the pass - can't you change your scheme to stop/slow down the running game, and make that QB beat you?
Yesterday, Wisconsin had a so-so game vs Iowa. But I'm still worried at the Badger's running attack.
Assembly Hall
11-23-2014, 11:10 AM
GAC, I understand the concern on the "run defense". Coleman is a stud. But I will say as an IU fan their passing game has been quite formidable in previous years. Maybe that went into the coaching staff's thought process?
BuckeyeRed27
11-23-2014, 12:19 PM
I thought Barrett played like crap. He missed 4 throws and made really bad decisions on both throws and runs. I actually thought the line played ok and Barrett wasn't taking advantage of the weak spot in the defense. This isn't going to hurt them ultimately in the playoff but...
traderumor
11-23-2014, 05:33 PM
I thought the Bucks D played good against the run overall, the home runs overshadow the overall performance, sort of like the poor run blocking is somewhat masked by Elliott's home run
cincrazy
11-23-2014, 08:41 PM
Was at the game... J.T. was way off with his footwork and accuracy. As noted above, we struggled to push around IU's d-line with the exception of one EzE run. If it's not for the special teams dropping a punt at the one yard line, the D forcing a three and out, and Marshall housing that punt, who knows what the outcome would've been.
If TCU is going to get dinged for a close win against Kansas (which was on the road), it's hard for me imagine OSU not paying the price for a terrible performance against IU.
I agree with what you guys are saying about JT ... footwork, accuracy, bad decisions ..... but some of that, IMO, especially in the 2nd/3rd quarters, was do to being rushed/pressured due to IU making penetration. It's like we almost abandoned our running game (other than JT's scrambles/options). You take away Eliot's 65 yd TD run, and he had 42 yds total the rest of the game.
GAC, I understand the concern on the "run defense". Coleman is a stud. But I will say as an IU fan their passing game has been quite formidable in previous years. Maybe that went into the coaching staff's thought process?
Respectfully, what they've done in previous years shouldn't matter. Especially when your coaching staff knows IU has lost their top two quarterbacks in Sudfeld and Covington to injuries ... and (if they are doing their research).... in the 4 games prior to playing OSU, IU's passing game has been simply horrendous..... 11 yds vs Michigan State, 24 yds vs Michigan, and 68 yds vs Penn State. It was only vs Rutgers, whose Pass D is near the bottom of the conference, that IU had a respectable 179 yds. Their passing offense is 117th in the nation. Diamont is no threat passing the ball.
Coleman is a beast! And besides him, Wynn and Diamont can run the ball. So they knew that any success IU has is primarily in their running game. I just did not like our scheme in this game. Just like the week before vs the Gophers, who are very weak passing the ball, it was like we were playing back off the line, as if we wanted to be cautious about the pass, not wanting to get burned/give up the big play, attempted very little to exert pressure, and we allowed both of these teams to run the ball down our throats.
I don't care much for Luke Fickell, and his soft "let's play it safe" defense. And that just could be an issue of youth, talent, ability. I don't know.
RedTeamGo!
11-24-2014, 08:12 AM
Agreed, Luke Fickell really needs to go, he doesn't play a Buckeye defense.
LoganBuck
11-24-2014, 08:44 AM
Agreed, Luke Fickell really needs to go, he doesn't play a Buckeye defense.
If you haven't figured it out yet, Ohio State doesn't have either 1. Enough Talent at DB or 2. Talent with Experience at DB. Ohio State has two corners I kind of trust Doran Grant and Eli Apple, and they aren't even draftable NFL talent yet. "Buckeye Defense", or "Silver Bullet Defense" relies on Corners in press and man coverage, think of Michigan State's Defense last year. Ohio State can't do that because they are not good enough on the back end yet. This year is leaps and bounds better than last year, which was abhorrent. They have improved to be competent , not good or excellent.
RedTeamGo!
11-24-2014, 08:56 AM
I understand that, but I personally think it is not just talent, but coaching. OSU gets top drawer DB recruits year in and year out. The fact they are not being developed into great/elite players is because of coaching.
Hoosier Red
11-24-2014, 10:12 AM
Coleman is a beast, no getting around that. It's really too bad IU's wasting one of the best individual offensive performances I've ever seen.
The odd thing was that the defensive game plan appeared early on to be accomplishing what it wanted, but the 50 yard scramble by Diamont really seemed to shake them up. Just like the offensive game plan got gun shy pushing the ball down the field after the two interceptions, the defensive game plan turned out to be passive after that long scramble.
LoganBuck
11-24-2014, 11:31 AM
I understand that, but I personally think it is not just talent, but coaching. OSU gets top drawer DB recruits year in and year out. The fact they are not being developed into great/elite players is because of coaching.
Wrong, name the last "top drawer" DB not named Von Bell or Eli Apple. Ohio State has not recruited a 5 star corner since Ted Ginn and Donte Whitner.
RedTeamGo!
11-24-2014, 11:39 AM
Wrong, name the last "top drawer" DB not named Von Bell or Eli Apple. Ohio State has not recruited a 5 star corner since Ted Ginn and Donte Whitner.
According to 247sports:
2014:
Damon Webb - 5th best CB in the Country
Marshon Lattimore - 6th best CB in the Country
Erick Smith - 6th best Safety in the Country
2013:
Vonn Bell - 2nd best Safety in the Country
Eli Apple - 6th best CB in the Country
Cameron Burrows - 9th best CB in the Country
2012:
Armani Reeves - 8th best CB in the Country
De'Vand Bogard - 13th best Safety in the Country
2011:
Doran Grant - 3rd best CB in the Country
2010:
Christian Bryant - 11th best CB in the Country
And that doesn't include the "athletes" they have recruited.
Assembly Hall
11-24-2014, 11:48 AM
Respectfully, what they've done in previous years shouldn't matter. Especially when your coaching staff knows IU has lost their top two quarterbacks in Sudfeld and Covington to injuries ... and (if they are doing their research).... in the 4 games prior to playing OSU, IU's passing game has been simply horrendous..... 11 yds vs Michigan State, 24 yds vs Michigan, and 68 yds vs Penn State. It was only vs Rutgers, whose Pass D is near the bottom of the conference, that IU had a respectable 179 yds. Their passing offense is 117th in the nation. Diamont is no threat passing the ball.
Coleman is a beast! And besides him, Wynn and Diamont can run the ball. So they knew that any success IU has is primarily in their running game. I just did not like our scheme in this game. Just like the week before vs the Gophers, who are very weak passing the ball, it was like we were playing back off the line, as if we wanted to be cautious about the pass, not wanting to get burned/give up the big play, attempted very little to exert pressure, and we allowed both of these teams to run the ball down our throats.
I don't care much for Luke Fickell, and his soft "let's play it safe" defense. And that just could be an issue of youth, talent, ability. I don't know.
Cant argue with a single thing you said there my friend.
LoganBuck
11-24-2014, 11:57 AM
According to 247sports:
2014:
Damon Webb - 5th best CB in the Country
Marshon Lattimore - 6th best CB in the Country
Erick Smith - 6th best Safety in the Country
2013:
Vonn Bell - 2nd best Safety in the Country
Eli Apple - 6th best CB in the Country
Cameron Burrows - 9th best CB in the Country
2012:
Armani Reeves - 8th best CB in the Country
De'Vand Bogard - 13th best Safety in the Country
2011:
Doran Grant - 3rd best CB in the Country
2010:
Christian Bryant - 11th best CB in the Country
And that doesn't include the "athletes" they have recruited.
2014 doesn't really count yet. Christian Bryant and Cam Burrows were safeties all the way. Pretty pathetic liat considering how many recruits were brought in. Compare that list to other big fish, Texas, Oklahoma, Florida, Florida State, Bama, Auburn, LSU, USC
RedTeamGo!
11-24-2014, 11:58 AM
2014 doesn't really count yet. Christian Bryant and Cam Burrows were safeties all the way. Pretty pathetic liat considering how many recruits were brought in.
That's what I am saying - these were all highly sought after recruits and not much came of it at all. Hopefully the 2014 crop will be coached up better.
MSU is doing way more with their secondary with 2 and 3 star recruits. Why is that? What is the difference?
Coaching. Coaching is the difference.
LoganBuck
11-24-2014, 12:07 PM
Looking at the current guys who are NFL talents? Bell and maybe in 2 years Apple. That is recruiting. Grant is a measurables guy, who is fundamentally weak. The lack of more talent is recruiting.
RedTeamGo!
11-24-2014, 12:11 PM
Looking at the current guys who are NFL talents? Bell and maybe in 2 years Apple. That is recruiting. Grant is a measurables guy, who is fundamentally weak. The lack of more talent is recruiting.
They recruited a bunch of top 10 national defensive backs. It is either they weren't as good as their rankings suggested or they are not being coached up. I think it is probably a bit of both.
During Tressel's tensure they would regularly turn 3 star recruits into first round NFL draft picks, AJ Hawk, I'm looking at you.
It doesn't really matter what is at fault - it all needs to improve - better scouting/recruiting of defensive players and better coaching.
LoganBuck
11-24-2014, 12:25 PM
You blamed Fickell. Quit looking at 247sports for your rankings. Try Rivals, I think 247 was created to sell subscriptions to people in the BigTen/Big12 footprint
RedTeamGo!
11-24-2014, 12:27 PM
You blamed Fickell. Quit looking at 247sports for your rankings. Try Rivals, I think 247 was created to sell subscriptions to people in the BigTen/Big12 footprint
I discovered 247 from an SEC fan - but these days I do not know which one is legit, honestly.
I still blame Fickell - the talent is there - it's not being coached up.
BuckeyeRed27
11-24-2014, 02:47 PM
I discovered 247 from an SEC fan - but these days I do not know which one is legit, honestly.
I still blame Fickell - the talent is there - it's not being coached up.
I don't love Fickell, but there has been some pretty big improvements from several of the guys on that side of the ball. Lee, Perry, Apple, Grant and Bell are all solid contributors that weren't a year ago.
I'll tell you an area that really disappoints me - and maybe it's because, as OSU fans, we're all somewhat spoiled by all the stand-out/greats we've traditionally had at that position - and that's at middle linebacker. And this is an area where Fickell is in charge too (supposedly his specialty). Curtis Grant came to OSU as a five-star prospect, but he's been fighting injury, as well as difficulty learning the scheme. Raekwon McMillan is a freshman, and, IMO, too early to make any type of valued judgment.
But I haven't been very impressed at this position this year ... but again, I've probably been spoiled. ;)
traderumor
11-25-2014, 01:33 PM
I'll tell you an area that really disappoints me - and maybe it's because, as OSU fans, we're all somewhat spoiled by all the stand-out/greats we've traditionally had at that position - and that's at middle linebacker. And this is an area where Fickell is in charge too (supposedly his specialty). Curtis Grant came to OSU as a five-star prospect, but he's been fighting injury, as well as difficulty learning the scheme. Raekwon McMillan is a freshman, and, IMO, too early to make any type of valued judgment.
But I haven't been very impressed at this position this year ... but again, I've probably been spoiled. ;)Linebacker is one of those odd positions with the proliferation of the spread offenses. LBers used to be such a key position in the line up and stop the run style of play, but so few play that style now that the LBer has to be big, fast, agile, able to play pass D...a tough position and a very rare and unique athlete to still be LBer size to fill gaps on the read option and play pass defense and play smash mouth. Good luck finding those guys. But McMillan has flashed some pretty good tools in his stints of late, surprised me one game how fast he was in the backfield. It almost seems like you need a David Fulcher type to be an all around game changing LBer these days.
Roy Tucker
11-25-2014, 02:13 PM
Talked to my OSU daughter (senior in nursing) last night. She's all cranked up for jumping in Mirror Lake tonight. Duct-taping sandals to her feet and everything.
Jumping in Mirror Lake has been a tradition at OSU the Tuesday before the Michigan game for a while now. For Lizzy, she'll be 4 for 4. I've always told her to beware of hypothermia.
Oh to be a college student again. I wonder how we survive.
RiverRat13
11-25-2014, 10:44 PM
Noah Spence ruled permanently ineligible by the B1G for his second failed drug test last summer.
villain612
11-26-2014, 03:12 AM
Oh to be a college student again. I wonder how we survive.
Lots of PBR.
Duct-taping sandals to her feet and everything.
Duct tape wrapped around your skin? Good luck getting that off afterwards! That sounds worse then jumping into an ice cold lake. (LOL)
traderumor
11-26-2014, 08:43 PM
Duct tape wrapped around your skin? Good luck getting that off afterwards! That sounds worse then jumping into an ice cold lake. (LOL)I do that instead of waxing. Works pretty well, actually.
Chip R
11-28-2014, 11:26 AM
Kosta Karageorge has gone missing.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11947774/cops-family-search-kosta-karageorge-ohio-state-buckeyes
Assembly Hall
11-28-2014, 12:23 PM
Kosta Karageorge has gone missing.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11947774/cops-family-search-kosta-karageorge-ohio-state-buckeyes
Strange, to say the least. I hope the young man is alright.
Latest on Kosta ....
A missing Ohio State (http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/_/id/194/ohio-state-buckeyes) football player told his mother in a text message the day he disappeared that concussions had his head messed up, according to a report filed with police.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11950632/missing-ohio-state-buckeyes-player-kosta-karageorge-texted-concussions-mother-says
BuckeyeRed27
11-29-2014, 02:10 PM
I have no idea why we feel the need to make Devin Gardner look like a competent QB but I really wish it would stop.
OldRightHander
11-29-2014, 03:49 PM
I hope Barrett's ok. Losing him would be a blow.
I hope Barrett's ok. Losing him would be a blow.
That really sucks.
Boston Red
11-29-2014, 04:10 PM
I hope Barrett's ok. Losing him would be a blow.
Cannot imagine he is okay based on what I saw. Looked ugly.
Man, that Barrett injury didn't look good. I'd be surprised if it's not season ending.
Even with him though, I feel comfortable saying this was not a team that deserved a playoff spot. No defense that bad should be given one of the 4 spots. It's still hard for me to fathom an OSU defense this bad 2 years in a row.
RiverRat13
11-29-2014, 04:22 PM
Sounds like JTB broke his ankle.
OldRightHander
11-29-2014, 04:24 PM
That stinks. Start looking toward next season then. Even if they win next week I don't see them making top 4 without Barrett.
This isn't the way it's supposed to be decided.
Good sportsmanship (http://thebiglead.com/2014/11/29/devin-gardner-provided-your-sportsmanship-photo-of-the-week/) by Gardner.
BuckeyeRed27
11-29-2014, 04:43 PM
I have never been less excited after beating Michigan
Kilgore_Trout
11-29-2014, 04:51 PM
I'm not quite ready to write off tOSU. There's several important games to be played, and we've yet to see how Jones handles the offense. An impressive win in the B1G championship game together with some key losses could still result in the Buckeyes making the top four. They'll have to show the committee that the team is better than it's quarterbacks.
*Sigh* It's so hard not to be cynical in a situation like this. Poor kid. He handled it like a pro.
RiverRat13
11-29-2014, 05:04 PM
Everyone wants to talk JTB or Braxton next season. With how often the QB runs the ball in this system, the answer may be both.
Larkin Fan
11-29-2014, 07:10 PM
Per ESPN and a statement released by OSU, Barrett is undergoing surgery tomorrow for a fractured ankle. Really hate seeing his season end like this.
Hillsdale87
11-29-2014, 09:20 PM
Even with him though, I feel comfortable saying this was not a team that deserved a playoff spot. No defense that bad should be given one of the 4 spots. It's still hard for me to fathom an OSU defense this bad 2 years in a row.
If it's not OSU, it's going to be one of TCU or Baylor, who each gave up 60 points to each other. And Baylor gave up 700 yards to Texas Tech today. A team with a bad defense is going to be in the playoffs
RedTeamGo!
11-29-2014, 11:00 PM
That was so bittersweet. Such a bummer about Barrett
HeatherC1212
11-30-2014, 01:21 AM
I'm so heartsick for JT Barrett. Hoping for a quick and complete recovery for him. It's always great to beat TTUN but boy did the JT injury take a lot of the joy out of it for me today. :(
If it's not OSU, it's going to be one of TCU or Baylor, who each gave up 60 points to each other. And Baylor gave up 700 yards to Texas Tech today. A team with a bad defense is going to be in the playoffs
That was one heck of a defensive struggle last night between Alabama and Auburn! :p
But having said that - I've started having my doubts about this team over the last few weeks. They go out and play simply superb football against a solid team in Michigan State and make a statement. They then struggle against vastly inferior teams (Indiana and Michigan). Yeah, IU's Coleman is an excellent RB; but that's still no excuse, IMO, to perform the way we did vs them.
And then we go up against a simply horrid Michigan team, with one of the worst offenses (and QB) in all of college football. They are bad, bad, bad.
If OSU can let a putrid offense put up 379 total yards on them, and a bad QB throw for 233 yards (and 2 TDs) ... then what do you think would happen, even if JT didn't go down, if they got in the play-offs against any of those teams? Just looking at a match-up with either TCU or Baylor would be disastrous IMO. It would not be pretty.
Fickell and Ash both need to be gone IMO.
Hillsdale87
11-30-2014, 10:27 AM
That was one heck of a defensive struggle last night between Alabama and Auburn! :p
But having said that - I've started having my doubts about this team over the last few weeks. They go out and play simply superb football against a solid team in Michigan State and make a statement. They then struggle against vastly inferior teams (Indiana and Michigan). Yeah, IU's Coleman is an excellent RB; but that's still no excuse, IMO, to perform the way we did vs them.
And then we go up against a simply horrid Michigan team, with one of the worst offenses (and QB) in all of college football. They are bad, bad, bad.
If OSU can let a putrid offense put up 379 total yards on them, and a bad QB throw for 233 yards (and 2 TDs) ... then what do you think would happen, even if JT didn't go down, if they got in the play-offs against any of those teams? Just looking at a match-up with either TCU or Baylor would be disastrous IMO. It would not be pretty.
Fickell and Ash both need to be gone IMO.
Not going to argue about deficiencies on defense. They're definitely inexcusably weak considering the level of talent. That said, the performance of the last two weeks does not worry me too much. The Indiana game seemed like a game where they just were not focused and looking ahead to Michigan. Once Indiana took the lead, OSU clamped down and dominated. Against Michigan, yes Gardner is horrible, but they waited until the OSU game to open up their playbook for the second year in a row. Maybe OSU's defense helped the Michigan offense look good, but this was completely different playcalling too. All of the college football analysts said the same thing. Michigan had a significantly better gameplan that suited Gardner than they had had all season.
The thing I can't figure out is why OSU is so bad against the run. That defensive line is probably top 5 in college football, and the linebackers are good. There always seem to be huge holes for running backs. Part of it is likely that the DTs are smaller, but that is something they've known all along and should have been able to plan for
Assembly Hall
11-30-2014, 12:17 PM
How do you think they will do against the RB from Wiscy?
RedlegJake
11-30-2014, 12:33 PM
How do you think they will do against the RB from Wiscy?
I love the Buckeyes but if I was laying money on the game I would go Wisconsin. Then again, I don't bet college football, so go Buckeyes! Besides, my daughter is an alum and if they lose she'll be a right friggin battleax nutil next year....
LoganBuck
11-30-2014, 12:36 PM
The thing I can't figure out is why OSU is so bad against the run. That defensive line is probably top 5 in college football, and the linebackers are good. There always seem to be huge holes for running backs. Part of it is likely that the DTs are smaller, but that is something they've known all along and should have been able to plan for
Notice that they are much weaker versus the run when Curtis Grant is in the game? For some unknown reason they keep giving him some sort of weird time split with Raekwon McMillon. Kwon is much stouter versus the run.
Hillsdale87
11-30-2014, 01:20 PM
Notice that they are much weaker versus the run when Curtis Grant is in the game? For some unknown reason they keep giving him some sort of weird time split with Raekwon McMillon. Kwon is much stouter versus the run.
Curtis Grant has been one of the most disappointing players at OSU in a long time. I believe he came in as the star LB recruit over Shazier even. He just never really put it together. Kwon is going to be a stud though. I don't know why he doesn't play more, but I'm looking forward to watching him the next few years
Sea Ray
11-30-2014, 01:54 PM
Not going to argue about deficiencies on defense. They're definitely inexcusably weak considering the level of talent. That said, the performance of the last two weeks does not worry me too much. The Indiana game seemed like a game where they just were not focused and looking ahead to Michigan. Once Indiana took the lead, OSU clamped down and dominated. Against Michigan, yes Gardner is horrible, but they waited until the OSU game to open up their playbook for the second year in a row. Maybe OSU's defense helped the Michigan offense look good, but this was completely different playcalling too. All of the college football analysts said the same thing. Michigan had a significantly better gameplan that suited Gardner than they had had all season.
The thing I can't figure out is why OSU is so bad against the run. That defensive line is probably top 5 in college football, and the linebackers are good. There always seem to be huge holes for running backs. Part of it is likely that the DTs are smaller, but that is something they've known all along and should have been able to plan for
Throughout college football offensive records are being set left and right. I think they really need to study this in the off season and see if they do something about this 'cause it's resembling arena football right now. This problem is not unique to Ohio State. It's all over the place.
Assembly Hall
11-30-2014, 02:26 PM
I love the Buckeyes but if I was laying money on the game I would go Wisconsin. Then again, I don't bet college football, so go Buckeyes! Besides, my daughter is an alum and if they lose she'll be a right friggin battleax nutil next year....
LOL!!!!!!!!!!
BuckeyeRed27
11-30-2014, 06:49 PM
Latest on Kosta ....
[/FONT][/COLOR]
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11950632/missing-ohio-state-buckeyes-player-kosta-karageorge-texted-concussions-mother-says
Sadly he was found dead this afternoon.
Assembly Hall
11-30-2014, 08:09 PM
Sadly he was found dead this afternoon.
That is just tragic. I am speechless.
HeatherC1212
12-01-2014, 12:18 AM
Sadly he was found dead this afternoon.
Oh gosh, this is so sad. My heart goes out to his friends and family. RIP :(
bucksfan2
12-01-2014, 10:27 AM
Not going to argue about deficiencies on defense. They're definitely inexcusably weak considering the level of talent. That said, the performance of the last two weeks does not worry me too much. The Indiana game seemed like a game where they just were not focused and looking ahead to Michigan. Once Indiana took the lead, OSU clamped down and dominated. Against Michigan, yes Gardner is horrible, but they waited until the OSU game to open up their playbook for the second year in a row. Maybe OSU's defense helped the Michigan offense look good, but this was completely different playcalling too. All of the college football analysts said the same thing. Michigan had a significantly better gameplan that suited Gardner than they had had all season.
The thing I can't figure out is why OSU is so bad against the run. That defensive line is probably top 5 in college football, and the linebackers are good. There always seem to be huge holes for running backs. Part of it is likely that the DTs are smaller, but that is something they've known all along and should have been able to plan for
Teams have been using Bosa and Bennett's aggressiveness against them. They are allowing both to get penetration and then run right past them. I think PSU started with that concept and then it continued throughout the season.
I feel terrible for JT, guy really surprised me after the Va Tech disaster to turn in a Heisman worth season. Hopefully he is able to heal 100% and be back next season.
OSU has a one game audition with Cardale. It isn't exactly the easiest task, especially with another weapon in Wilson on the shelf but it is what it is.
As an OSU fan I like watching Michigan struggle, I especially like beating them at the end of the season. Games were a lot more enjoyable when a good OSU team beat a good Michigan team. I think Brady Hoke is a good guy, a stand-up guy. I also think Hoke is a guy who understood the rivalry inside and out. His teams, under matched teams, played their best games of the year against OSU. He was a good recruiter but a poor developer of talent and a coach who just couldn't get the best out of his players. It is somewhat of a shame that he couldn't win because he is the type of guy who always was adding fuel to the fire.
Hillsdale87
12-01-2014, 02:13 PM
Teams have been using Bosa and Bennett's aggressiveness against them. They are allowing both to get penetration and then run right past them. I think PSU started with that concept and then it continued throughout the season.
That's a good point. It seems like OSU either gets a TFL or gives up a 5-7 yard gain. Bennett does a great job of shooting gaps, but he doesn't really clog up running lanes
Assembly Hall
12-01-2014, 02:56 PM
Teams have been using Bosa and Bennett's aggressiveness against them. They are allowing both to get penetration and then run right past them. I think PSU started with that concept and then it continued throughout the season.
I feel terrible for JT, guy really surprised me after the Va Tech disaster to turn in a Heisman worth season. Hopefully he is able to heal 100% and be back next season.
OSU has a one game audition with Cardale. It isn't exactly the easiest task, especially with another weapon in Wilson on the shelf but it is what it is.
As an OSU fan I like watching Michigan struggle, I especially like beating them at the end of the season. Games were a lot more enjoyable when a good OSU team beat a good Michigan team. I think Brady Hoke is a good guy, a stand-up guy. I also think Hoke is a guy who understood the rivalry inside and out. His teams, under matched teams, played their best games of the year against OSU. He was a good recruiter but a poor developer of talent and a coach who just couldn't get the best out of his players. It is somewhat of a shame that he couldn't win because he is the type of guy who always was adding fuel to the fire.
I loved that last paragraph. Kudos. I couldn't have said it any better.
Against Michigan, yes Gardner is horrible, but they waited until the OSU game to open up their playbook for the second year in a row.
Respectfully, I just can't accept this. You got a coach (Hoke) whose job has been on the line for quite some time. And this year they've been screaming for his head BIG TIME as the losses pile up. So he WAITS for the OSU game, keeps stuff back while their losses pile up and their season is basically over, just so he can open up the playbook vs OSU? I agree, and even said so, that they would be throwing everything, including the kitchen sink, at us - but all off our in-conference opponents were doing that when you're the top team in the B10 (and in the nation).
All that tells me (or confirms) is that this team -as far as defense (scheme), and against vastly inferior opponents, still go into some of these games very ill prepared.
Maybe OSU's defense helped the Michigan offense look good
Won't argue that point. :lol: But if our defense makes one of college football's most horrendous (and inept) offensives look good, then what does that say about your defense (as well as coaches)?
The thing I can't figure out is why OSU is so bad against the run. That defensive line is probably top 5 in college football, and the linebackers are good. There always seem to be huge holes for running backs. Part of it is likely that the DTs are smaller, but that is something they've known all along and should have been able to plan for
Maybe it's because this coaching staff (defense) either feels they don't have the talent, or they don't trust the talent they have, as far as LBers/secondary, because they sure do play a lot of soft coverage/off the line. It's like this logic of ... "We'll concede small chunks of yardage because we don't want to get burned down field by the big play".
In our last three games (Minnesota, Indiana, Michigan) we faced teams who are very weak passing/QB, and any success they have is running the ball. And we let them run the ball! The Gopher's RB Cobb/QB Leidner ran for over 200 yards on us. We did basically the same with Indiana's Coleman/Diamont (a 3rd string QB). We didn't even try, IMO, to change up our defensive scheme -which is very predictable also IMO - and stop/slow down these team's running game and make their QB beat us.
The headline for these games should not have been (IMO) - OHIO STATE OUTLASTS MINNESOTA (or INDIANA, or MICHIGAN).
I am really rootin' for the Buckeyes this Saturday. Since JT went down, most everyone says it's over for OSU, and it definitely hurts. But we can win this game. Wisconsin hasn't really been playing that good lately either. Wisconsin is another team weak passing (QB). They are going to run the ball down our throat's. As for OSU?.... we'll be primarily running the ball too, and any passing done will only be high percentage passes when it comes to a 3rd string QB.
But we can win this game, make a statement, if we don't go into it with the same predictable defensive scheme.
Ohio State now #5 in the play-off rankings.
The question now facing ardent Buckeye fans is, since we lost our Heisman candidate QB, and IF we somehow make it into the play-offs - "Is that a good thing, or a bad thing?"
I think I'm like a majority of OSU fans, even before JT went down, who continued to have this nagging thought in the back of their minds about how good (legitimate) this team really is .... that even if OSU got into this thing they'd get mauled/embarrassed, and all the "critics" would then be screaming "See! We told you that OSU isn't that good and didn't deserve to be there!" ... and that's something, inside of me, I just wanted to avoid.
But after some mulling on this, I say "Screw those critics!", or whatever some may say about this team, and say it's a good thing (if we make it).
There's no denying that they have a very daunting, up-hill battle ahead of them, beginning this Saturday. But if they win the B10 Championship game vs a good Wisconsin team - and I honestly think they can - and one of those 4 teams ahead of them loses, then they deserve to be in it. There's no question in my mind. How anyone thinks they will perform in the that play-off (i.e get blown out, embarrassed) is not, and should not, be a determining factor as to whether they should be in it or not.
Let the cards fall where they may.
Go Bucks!
http://cdn.nikeblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/New-Ohio-State-Football-Uniform-51.jpg
bucksfan2
12-03-2014, 10:06 AM
I fully believe that the committee is full of it. They continue to move the goal posts with each additional release of the polls. Part of me thinks this is to create a buzz but I just don't understanding the justifying of TCU at this point. Especially considering that Baylor and TCU would have played the same opponents with the exception of the mighty Minnesota. While I want so see Jamis and FSU lose, they haven't yet. They shouldn't be ranked 4th, heck shouldn't be ranked anything lower than 2nd. At some point the committee has to admit that actually winning games is the #1 criteria.
Now to my OSU rant. I fully believe had JT Barrett been healthy they would be in the final four. I think had they beat Wisconsin in the B1G Championship game they weren't going to be held out of the playoff. Right now I think you had to admit that OSU has the best win of any team in the top 6, an away dominating win against Sparty. I can't for the life of me believe that JT Barrett's injury didn't sway the committee, a committee comprised of humans. You can't tell me that that didn't play into the mix at all. The move of TCU to #3 may have been a smart move to eliminate much of the hassling between TCU, OSU and Baylor. Its easy to say that FSU will get in because they are undefeated and even easier to say that OSU or Baylor isn't going to jump to #3.
Sea Ray
12-03-2014, 12:12 PM
OSU does arguably have the best win but to be fair they also have the worst loss. They're in a good position. All 4 teams above them play this weekend. Chances are at least one of them will lose. I'm guessing that team will be FSU, by all the Buckeyes need is one team to lose and then take care of business in Indy
Redsfaithful
12-03-2014, 01:11 PM
Decent chance the Buckeyes end up in the 2/3 game honestly. I could see Oregon and Florida State both losing.
What happens if Alabama loses to Missouri? How do they get an SEC team in in that scenario?
RiverRat13
12-03-2014, 02:08 PM
I think Georgia Tech has its way with Florida State. That said, I'm not very confident in OSU winning, either. I don't think Cardale will be as accurate as he needs to be to win the game and with OSU's rushing defense the Bucks will have to put up points.
Revering4Blue
12-03-2014, 04:32 PM
Buckeyes repay Devin Gardner’s classy gesture with one of their own.
http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/12/03/buckeyes-repay-devin-gardners-classy-gesture-with-one-of-their-own/
bucksfan2
12-03-2014, 05:03 PM
I think Georgia Tech has its way with Florida State. That said, I'm not very confident in OSU winning, either. I don't think Cardale will be as accurate as he needs to be to win the game and with OSU's rushing defense the Bucks will have to put up points.
The game will hinge on how well OSU stops Gordon. If they can keep Wisconsin in down and distance I like their chances. If Gordon runs wild I don't like their chances. I think Wisconsin is good, I don't think Wisconsin is great. If Cardale can make a player or two while not making any killer mistakes I think they can beat Wisconsin. I don't know if that will be enough but it may just do the trick.
Assembly Hall
12-03-2014, 05:44 PM
What happens if Alabama loses to Missouri? How do they get an SEC team in in that scenario?
They don't!!!!!!!
The game will hinge on how well OSU stops Gordon.
And that's the key to the whole game as far as I'm concerned, and a point I've brought up over the last few weeks...... in the Minnesota and Indiana games, we played two teams that are not only weak, but pretty bad, when it comes to QB/ passing game. They depend solely on their running game for any level of success, and both teams have good RBs (Cobb, Coleman). Yet we still went into those games with the same defensive scheme, as if our opponents had a balanced offensive attack, that we need to be wary of their QBs, and we not only let these guys run all over but their QBs were taking advantage of what OSU was giving them and throwing under the coverage (short to intermediate passes). I was pulling my hair out.
Wisconsin, in the conference, is #1 in total defense, scoring defense, pass defense. So, to begin with, we've got a daunting task ahead of us without Barrett.
We know Wisconsin is going to run the ball down our throats with Gordon. That is their bread and butter. Wisconsin's passing game/QB is one of the worst (117th nationally). Their QB isn't even on the radar, statistically, within the conference.
So If we don't change things up defensively, and go into this game with the same predictable defensive scheme we have vs the last three opponents, then, IMO, it's going to be a very long day for the Buckeyes, and it's just not going to matter what any of those other teams in the play-off picture do.
And that would be sad because I think Arizona and Georgia Tech have valid shots to win. I don't think Missouri does vs Alabama.
traderumor
12-04-2014, 10:47 AM
And that's the key to the whole game as far as I'm concerned, and a point I've brought up over the last few weeks...... in the Minnesota and Indiana games, we played two teams that are not only weak, but pretty bad, when it comes to QB/ passing game. They depend solely on their running game for any level of success, and both teams have good RBs (Cobb, Coleman). Yet we still went into those games with the same defensive scheme, as if our opponents had a balanced offensive attack, that we need to be wary of their QBs, and we not only let these guys run all over but their QBs were taking advantage of what OSU was giving them and throwing under the coverage (short to intermediate passes). I was pulling my hair out.
Wisconsin, in the conference, is #1 in total defense, scoring defense, pass defense. So, to begin with, we've got a daunting task ahead of us without Barrett.
We know Wisconsin is going to run the ball down our throats with Gordon. That is their bread and butter. Wisconsin's passing game/QB is one of the worst (117th nationally). Their QB isn't even on the radar, statistically, within the conference.
So If we don't change things up defensively, and go into this game with the same predictable defensive scheme we have vs the last three opponents, then, IMO, it's going to be a very long day for the Buckeyes, and it's just not going to matter what any of those other teams in the play-off picture do.
And that would be sad because I think Arizona and Georgia Tech have valid shots to win. I don't think Missouri does vs Alabama.
While I understand that it is imperative to shut down the running game of an offense with an excellent running game and weak passing game, the other teams are doing what they do well and are better at doing their jobs than the Buckeyes D. I don't think you can just point to failure to succeed on the wrong scheme, or the same scheme. It seems to me that the Buckeyes just are not good enough on D to stymie the other team's strength. Sure, a team runs the ball excellently and has a weak passing QB, it seems simple to "we gotta stop the run." Well, that's the challenge. Does Ohio State have the personnel to do that? I'm guessing the answer is no. This D, for whatever reason, is not stout. Blame it on the Ficklettes, as one friend of mine refers to them, but I think it is more a personnel thing. We just do not have a good run stuffing D, so teams who do this well will score some points. I'm basically resigned to that fact and will be pleasantly surprised if they can contain Gordon, which is really all they need to do. If he goes all Tim Biakabutuka (sp?) on us, then we lose. But I don't think its just a "vanilla scheme" that is doing in the Bucks. It's personnel.
It seems to me that the Buckeyes just are not good enough on D to stymie the other team's strength. Sure, a team runs the ball excellently and has a weak passing QB, it seems simple to "we gotta stop the run." Well, that's the challenge. Does Ohio State have the personnel to do that? I'm guessing the answer is no. This D, for whatever reason, is not stout. Blame it on the Ficklettes, as one friend of mine refers to them, but I think it is more a personnel thing. We just do not have a good run stuffing D, so teams who do this well will score some points. I'm basically resigned to that fact and will be pleasantly surprised if they can contain Gordon, which is really all they need to do. If he goes all Tim Biakabutuka (sp?) on us, then we lose. But I don't think its just a "vanilla scheme" that is doing in the Bucks. It's personnel.
And you bring up a valid point(s) tr, that I too have mentioned in the past.... talent (personnel), which leads to the bottom-line that they just aren't that good, because of that lack, in stopping the running game.
But here is one of the biggest things that irks me as I've watched this team (defensively) this year, and it deals with opponents with weak QBs/passing game.... because of that weakness they don't throw the ball down field that much; but they continually run these little out patterns (swing passes), well under the coverage ... and it's ALSO probably because our LBers/secondary are playing so far of the line...and the guy is ten yards down the field before anyone from our secondary even comes into the picture.
We're facing the #1 run offense in the conference, and one of the best nationally. I just think we have to try something different, make some kind of adjustments, in this game. Gordon is going to get his yardage. OSU can only try to contain/minimize his efforts in this game, force their offense to pass more, in order to give us a chance to win.
Last year, we held Gordon to 74 yards and won 31-24. And Wisconsin is keeping an eye on Gordon who sprained his ankle last week vs the Gophers.
But I look back at the Wisconsin-Northwestern game, which the Badgers lost, and it gives me hope.... Gordon ran for 259 yds, but Wisconsin QBs threw four INTs in that game.
So I hope the Buckeye coaching staff is studying the heck out of that game film! LOL
Here's what Fickell said this past week...
"In order to stop a running game, you've got to have great team defense, you've got to surround the ball, you've got to build a wall at the line of scrimmage, you've got to swarm tackles," Buckeyes defensive coordinator Luke Fickell said.
Git ur done guys!
traderumor
12-05-2014, 09:26 AM
And you bring up a valid point(s) tr, that I too have mentioned in the past.... talent (personnel), which leads to the bottom-line that they just aren't that good, because of that lack, in stopping the running game.
But here is one of the biggest things that irks me as I've watched this team (defensively) this year, and it deals with opponents with weak QBs/passing game.... because of that weakness they don't throw the ball down field that much; but they continually run these little out patterns (swing passes), well under the coverage ... and it's ALSO probably because our LBers/secondary are playing so far of the line...and the guy is ten yards down the field before anyone from our secondary even comes into the picture.
We're facing the #1 run offense in the conference, and one of the best nationally. I just think we have to try something different, make some kind of adjustments, in this game. Gordon is going to get his yardage. OSU can only try to contain/minimize his efforts in this game, force their offense to pass more, in order to give us a chance to win.
Last year, we held Gordon to 74 yards and won 31-24. And Wisconsin is keeping an eye on Gordon who sprained his ankle last week vs the Gophers.
But I look back at the Wisconsin-Northwestern game, which the Badgers lost, and it gives me hope.... Gordon ran for 259 yds, but Wisconsin QBs threw four INTs in that game.
So I hope the Buckeye coaching staff is studying the heck out of that game film! LOL
Here's what Fickell said this past week...
Git ur done guys! [/FONT][/COLOR]
Maybe if Bosa and Bennett, but esp. Bosa, stay with their assignments and reads and don't just wander around the field?
bucksfan2
12-05-2014, 10:03 AM
As for the porous OSU defense I wonder how much the offense contributes. If you run an efficient quick strike offense you are putting the defense on the field for long periods of time. Short scoring drives are great, but if you score in 4 minutes that means the defense is going right back out there.
Roy Tucker
12-05-2014, 10:49 AM
To me, the biggest issue will be to protect Cardale Jones. I don't mean pass protection, but more to keep from making him have to make big plays. Like what happened to JT in the Va Tech game. Barnett just didn't have the experience to handle the whole offense and be able to recognize and counter defenses. Jones is in that same boat now.
traderumor
12-05-2014, 12:39 PM
As for the porous OSU defense I wonder how much the offense contributes. If you run an efficient quick strike offense you are putting the defense on the field for long periods of time. Short scoring drives are great, but if you score in 4 minutes that means the defense is going right back out there.
Sure, this is a factor, just like in basketball, more possessions/more potential opportunities. However, multiple long drives by a weak offense like TTUN do not have anything to do with that, for example.
bucksfan2
12-05-2014, 12:54 PM
Sure, this is a factor, just like in basketball, more possessions/more potential opportunities. However, multiple long drives by a weak offense like TTUN do not have anything to do with that, for example.
What Michigan did against OSU was get into the endzone. In all reality the game was over at 42-21 later on in the 4th. Michigan added on a garbage time TD that did nothing but cut the score. So in effect OSU's defense let up 21 points against a poor Michigan QB. Had OSU kept them out of the endzone once it looks ike 42-17 and twice it looks like 42-13. Its all hypothetical but I think you can say OSU's defensive struggles of late have been keeping the opponent out of the endzone. Michigan had three scoring drives when it mattered, all three went for TD's. Keeping Wisconsin out of the endzone and forcing FG tries might just be huge tomorrow.
I don't see any parallels between the Va Tech game with Barrett and the Wisconsin game with Cardale. The major factors are the OLine now gelled with a full season under their belt. Also consider that Zeke was a first time starter and Marshall was a guy who had yet to make a big impact. The biggest key will be for Cardale to limit the mistakes, if he limits the mistakes OSU has a big edge in talent which often times is a determining factor.
This is an interesting article, going into this season, that talks of the "new" 4-3 over, quarters-based defense Chris Ash was implementing this year. As the title of the article says, this new defense is an aggressive-yet-conservative paradox. It's a defense that is becoming a mainstay in college football in an attempt to answer the spread offense. And I agree with Ash... and it's evident as you look around college football as a whole and the scores ... that it's becoming increasingly difficult to play sound defense against everything your opponent can throw at you.
http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2014/5/12/5675862/ohio-state-defensive-coordinator-2014-chris-ash
I really enjoyed this article though.... http://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-football/2014/03/34174/chris-ash-and-ohio-states-ongoing-struggle-cover-4-part-i
And after reading it I've come to this simple conclusion (for now).... since Meyer has been head coach, one of his main objectives was to fix OSU's defense, and adopt the defense that has been most effective against this spread offense. And, up to this point, he hasn't been very successful.
In the Jim Heacock era, the defense was based from cover 3. The Ohio State defense spent spring and fall practice in 2012 repping cover 4, and opened the season with that scheme. They struggled with it, and went to a hybrid in mid-season. Then, going into the 2013 season, instead of trying to work out the kinks with the cover 4 they dumped it and went back to a cover 3.
And that then brings us to this "new era", where they hired Ash to fix the pas defense. And he resurrected the cover 4 match-up zone, which utilizes quarters.
So I look at these changes - this going back and forth between schemes, trying to find that fix - and I personally think it's hard on these players, especially young ones, to get settled in and learn when you're going back and forth.
It may simply be an issue of TIME, and allowing Ash time to implement and work out the "kinks", because I think the talent is there.
We'll see
villain612
12-06-2014, 09:33 PM
Good start for Jones.
The defense too.
Go bucks.
Roy Tucker
12-06-2014, 10:53 PM
Golly.
That was a bs targeting call. They got that wrong.
villain612
12-06-2014, 10:54 PM
38-0 Ohio State. Still the first half. Wow
8258
Chip R
12-07-2014, 12:15 AM
If I'm tOSU, I'm not letting up at all. I'd try to beat Bucky 72-0 if I could to impress that committee.
HeatherC1212
12-07-2014, 12:36 AM
I did not see this type of total dominance coming at all from the Buckeyes tonight but I'm SOOOOOOO proud of all those guys for coming out on all cylinders and putting everything on the line in this game. GO BUCKS!!!!!!!!!! :D :D :D :D :D
Roy Tucker
12-07-2014, 01:00 AM
Me too, Heather. I thought it would be a slugfest. But instead, total domination by OSU.
I'll say it: I don't know how they keep the Buckeyes out of the playoffs.
HeatherC1212
12-07-2014, 01:06 AM
Yeah, I don't know how they can keep them out now. A third string QB starting his first ever college game, a defense that's had more than a few ups and downs all season, a player and friend found dead because of suicide just last week, a Heisman contender across the field from them on Wisconsin's team along with a great defense that hasn't given up much all year, and they dominate that other team in EVERY SINGLE WAY. How can they leave them out?! :eek:
GO BUCKEYES!!!!!!!! :D
jimbo
12-07-2014, 01:08 AM
Statement.......made! One of the four best teams in the country.
villain612
12-07-2014, 01:27 AM
I'm 30 years old. I've been watching Buckeye games since I was a child. This is the best, most dominating Ohio State performance in a big game I've seen in my life.
3rd string QB? lol Doesn't matter.
They deserve top 4.
Slyder
12-07-2014, 01:56 AM
Me too, Heather. I thought it would be a slugfest. But instead, total domination by OSU.
I'll say it: I don't know how they keep the Buckeyes out of the playoffs.
If (and this is a BIG if) the committee is serious about the playoffs being a TOTAL BODY OF WORK theres one thing working against you...
Virginia Tech. I don't see how if the committee is serious about TOTAL BODY WORK as they CLAIM you can overlook that.
The B1G was WEAK as shown tonight. Wisconsin had 1 game of note all season a good showing against LSU, they didn't play MSU or you all in the regular season, didn't even break 40 against a 5-7 Missouri Conference team, couldn't break 30 against a 4-8 team from the AMERICAN ATHLETIC Conference.
My one regret about tonight is I didn't take a couple friends to the cleaners even more when they said Wisky would keep this under 2 scores.
dougdirt
12-07-2014, 02:35 AM
The B1G was WEAK as shown tonight. Wisconsin had 1 game of note all season a good showing against LSU, they didn't play MSU or you all in the regular season, didn't even break 40 against a 5-7 Missouri Conference team, couldn't break 30 against a 4-8 team from the AMERICAN ATHLETIC Conference.
The SEC was WEAK as shown this afternoon. Missouri got dominated. WEAK.
That argument is trash. Maybe, just maybe, Ohio State is really, really good right now and it's a lot more about that than it is about the conference being weak. Maybe the conference is weak. It very well could be.
I still don't care. You win 59-0 it's about how good you are, not how weak someone else is. That was Wisconsin not Miami (OH).
Do the Buckeyes deserve to be in? Sure they do. So do five other teams. Two are going to be left out and it's going to be brutal for those two teams and fanbases. I think it's going to be Ohio State and Baylor on the outside looking in.
Slyder
12-07-2014, 03:00 AM
The SEC was WEAK as shown this afternoon. Missouri got dominated. WEAK.
That argument is trash. Maybe, just maybe, Ohio State is really, really good right now and it's a lot more about that than it is about the conference being weak. Maybe the conference is weak. It very well could be.
I still don't care. You win 59-0 it's about how good you are, not how weak someone else is. That was Wisconsin not Miami (OH).
Do the Buckeyes deserve to be in? Sure they do. So do five other teams. Two are going to be left out and it's going to be brutal for those two teams and fanbases. I think it's going to be Ohio State and Baylor on the outside looking in.
I will say this I think Ohio St deserves to be in more than FSU but FSU is undefeated and that has to at least mean something (and the only reason they're gonna be in). If this was ANY other brand besides FSU they wouldn't even be in consideration IMO, but because its the reigning national champ they'll be saved.
I personally think right now best 4 teams:
1 Oregon
2 Alabama
3 TCU
4 Ohio State
I think the committee will throw a bit of a bone to the tv networks..
1 Oregon vs 4 TCU Can TCU's D stop Oregon's O
2 Alabama vs 3 FSU Can FSU continue their string of close wins, What many felt should have been the matchup last year if not for the kick.
dougdirt
12-07-2014, 03:02 AM
I will say this I think you all deserve to be in more than FSU but FSU is undefeated and that has to at least mean something (and the only reason they're gonna be in).
I personally think right now best 4 teams:
1 Oregon
2 Alabama
3 TCU
4 Ohio State
I think the committee will throw a bit of a bone to the tv networks..
1 Oregon vs 4 TCU Can TCU's D stop Oregon's O
2 Alabama vs 3 FSU Can FSU continue their string of close wins, What many felt should have been the matchup last year if not for the kick.
Not really a part of "you guys". I root for Ohio State, but the Cincinnati Bearcats are my team.
Slyder
12-07-2014, 03:22 AM
Not really a part of "you guys". I root for Ohio State, but the Cincinnati Bearcats are my team.
Changed that to read Ohio State rather than "you guys", I thought you were one of the nuts for Buckeyes on the board.
Brutus
12-07-2014, 05:07 AM
No offense to you, Slyder, but whenever the conversation veers off course to the strength of the conference, it becomes void of any intellectual merit. This isn't supposed to be an exercise to find the most accomplished teams from the most accomplished conferences, it's supposed to be seeding the four best college football teams. Making this about the Big Ten being "weak" is irrelevant to the purpose of the selection. We should be discussing how good Ohio State is, not how good (or not good) the Big Ten allegedly is (or is not).
For the record, Ohio State's opponents' records are actually better than TCU and Baylor and was better than Mississippi State, too.
Forget the Big Ten, no one with a shred of dignity can have watched that game -- where Ohio State obliterated a legit top-15/20 team -- and not come away thinking Ohio State is as good as any of the top 3/4 teams in the country.
The SEC was WEAK as shown this afternoon. Missouri got dominated. WEAK.
That argument is trash. Maybe, just maybe, Ohio State is really, really good right now and it's a lot more about that than it is about the conference being weak. Maybe the conference is weak. It very well could be.
I still don't care. You win 59-0 it's about how good you are, not how weak someone else is. That was Wisconsin not Miami (OH).
Do the Buckeyes deserve to be in? Sure they do. So do five other teams. Two are going to be left out and it's going to be brutal for those two teams and fanbases. I think it's going to be Ohio State and Baylor on the outside looking in.
Good post. I also agree, unfortunately, when the announcement is made later today, OSU will be outside looking in.
The only way, IMO, that OSU had a chance was if one of those four teams above them lost. None did. IMO, it's that simple.
I'm a huge Buckeye fan. And I've tried to look at it from several angles, trying to find a way to justify OSU getting in. And sadly, if I am to be fair and objective, I can't find it.
I was with a huge group of Buckeye fans last night for the game. And before the game, all of us were pretty much in agreement that the Bucks could win this game; but in the back of our minds was that lone nagging thought that they probably wouldn't (and for some pretty obvious reasons), and we were preparing ourselves for that. We were all caught by surprise, totally overwhelmed - as I think most were - as we watched this team totally dominate (destroy) Wisconsin. There isn't a Buckeye fan on this board that thought this would occur going in. I certainly didn't.
So after the slaughter, everyone started the argument that they should be in and FSU should be out. I didn't speak up then because I didn't want to be mauled for disagreeing with a group of pumped-up, rabid (and drunk), Buckeye fans (LOL). But they threw out the same arguments against FSU that I've heard here... It doesn't matter they went undefeated. Look at their schedule. The ACC is a weak conference, FSU played a weak schedule, they barely escaped with victories vs inferior opponents.
And I'll say it again..... weren't those the same accusations thrown at OSU over the last decade when they got into those championship games? And as loyal Buckeye fans we held our ground, dismissed those critics - and rightfully so - because OSU deserved to be there. They ran the table on their schedule (escaped some games, even had to comeback, vs vastly inferior opponents) and went undefeated. So while I hate to say this .... why is it different now with FSU, whose in a similar position?
So I'm ready to hear any argument from my fellow Buckeye fan(s) as to why OSU should be in it, and FSU shouldn't.
I also reject the argument that has been thrown out that OSU isn't a valid "candidate" because the B10 conference is weak, just as much as I reject it when it's used against FSU and the ACC conference. That's not either team's fault. They don't control that.
I'm not disagreeing that OSU isn't as good as any of those other top teams either. But unfortunately, that's not the issue, nor is that the criteria utilized by the committee.
RedTeamGo!
12-07-2014, 10:46 AM
I don't think they will get in, but the only way I think they do is if the committee punishes the Big 12 for not having a conference championship.
BuckeyeRed27
12-07-2014, 12:36 PM
Florida State should be in. I think OSU is better than them but they went undefeated in a major conference. OSU should be in over the Big 12 teams.
Hillsdale87
12-07-2014, 12:54 PM
It will be interesting to see the way the committee looks at this... Going into last night, TCU deserved to be ranked ahead of OSU, but yesterday was a huge flip in terms of strength of schedule. OSU had played some easy games earlier in the season and closed out with a difficult one, while TCU had some tough games in the middle of the season and closed very easy. At this point, strength of schedule is very similar (ESPN has OSU's ranked higher than TCU's by a small margin). And OSU's best 2 wins are better than any of TCU's wins. The wins over MSU and Wisconsin were probably the 2 best wins of the year by any team in consideration for the Final 4 (Alabama's wins over MSU and Auburn are up there too). TCU has beaten one team that is currently ranked.
I also don't really understand why OSU has to worry about TCU instead of Baylor. Baylor beat TCU and has basically the same SOS. This system is better than the BCS, but it's still maddening!
villain612
12-07-2014, 01:05 PM
Posted this in the other thread but..
Opponents records by team:
Ohio State 84-60
TCU 61-70
Baylor 61-70
Kilgore_Trout
12-07-2014, 01:11 PM
It will be interesting to see the way the committee looks at this... Going into last night, TCU deserved to be ranked ahead of OSU, but yesterday was a huge flip in terms of strength of schedule. OSU had played some easy games earlier in the season and closed out with a difficult one, while TCU had some tough games in the middle of the season and closed very easy. At this point, strength of schedule is very similar (ESPN has OSU's ranked higher than TCU's by a small margin). And OSU's best 2 wins are better than any of TCU's wins. The wins over MSU and Wisconsin were probably the 2 best wins of the year by any team in consideration for the Final 4 (Alabama's wins over MSU and Auburn are up there too). TCU has beaten one team that is currently ranked.
I also don't really understand why OSU has to worry about TCU instead of Baylor. Baylor beat TCU and has basically the same SOS. This system is better than the BCS, but it's still maddening!
Thank you for pointing this out. I keep reading, in this thread and in others, that tOSU has by far the worst loss of the season, and therefore should be eliminated for consideration. Really? So we're just going to ignore a road win against a top 10 MSU, and a complete dismantling of a legitimate top 15 program because the Buckeyes lost to an inferior team in week 2? All after losing a Heisman QB and plopping four new (and very young) O-linemen into the mix? I'm not saying that loss wasn't embarrassing. They should have won the game. But let's not be dismissive of a team that has obviously improved.
Ohio State showed everyone in America that they are just as deserving as anyone else for that last playoff spot. Personally, I think they get snubbed in favor of TCU. But anyone who says this team isn't firmly in the conversation is being intellectually dishonest.
villain612
12-07-2014, 01:17 PM
Ohio State definitely has the worst loss of the 3 teams on the bubble.
But they have the best wins.
These things don't occur in a vacuum either. This isn't the same Buckeye team that it was in September. Anyone who knows sports knows teams evolve, get better or worse during a season. The fact that they've done what they have with the injuries to the most important position on the field should just add to their credit.
I'll also note that their two biggest wins - Michigan State and Wisconsin - were against highly rated defenses and they pretty much did whatever they wanted to do offensively.
Ask Bama who they'd rather not play right now of the three. Bet they would say Ohio State.
Kilgore_Trout
12-07-2014, 01:24 PM
The way Ohio State looked last night, I don't think there's a single team out there that would want to play them. I hope our Buckeyes are given a shot to compete against the best. We'll know in less than 10 minutes :pray:
Kilgore_Trout
12-07-2014, 01:45 PM
:jump: Rejoice, Buckeye Nation! Rejoice! :jump:
villain612
12-07-2014, 01:48 PM
We're in baby!
Roy Tucker
12-07-2014, 01:48 PM
Woooooooo!!!!!!
HeatherC1212
12-07-2014, 11:32 PM
Time to celebrate!! Bring on Bama!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :jump: :jump: :jump: :jump:
I don't think they will get in, but the only way I think they do is if the committee punishes the Big 12 for not having a conference championship.
Ding! Ding! Ding! I think (IMO) we have a winner!
LoganBuck
12-08-2014, 01:39 PM
Ding! Ding! Ding! I think (IMO) we have a winner!
I don't think it was punishment for the Big 12, as much as a reward for Ohio State. Had Ohio State won ugly, there is no way Baylor winds up behind them, IMO. Had 2 of the 4 that are currently in, lost (or Ohio State won ugly) on Saturday, the argument would be about how it was unfair that the Big 12 didn't have a championship because TCU and Baylor would both be in.
That game was the equivalent of tossing a perfect game in a Wild Card Playoff of baseball.
villain612
12-08-2014, 01:54 PM
So, how does Ohio State matchup against Bama?
I've only been able to catch 1 or 2 Bama games this year.
I think they deserve to be favorites in this game but this isn't the same dominant Bama team from the past few years. I think Oregon is better IMO.
Kilgore_Trout
12-08-2014, 02:10 PM
So, how does Ohio State matchup against Bama?
I'd say unfavorably, but it depends on what Alabama team shows up. They've fared much better at home as opposed to on the road, but they're clearly neck and neck with Oregon as the best team in the nation. They have some incredible athletes, a running back in Derrick Henry that can plow over any barrel-chested linebacker, and an efficient quarterback that makes everyone around him better. Obviously, Cooper and Yeldon add a lot of value at their respective positions as well.
I'm not sure that I've watched a complete game of theirs, but I've done my best to watch as much of the Tide as I can. They're impressive. They're intimidating. They're well coached, and they play the game the way it should be played. You can say pretty much the same thing about the Buckeyes, though. If tOSU performs at the level they are capable of performing at, it'll be a great game. I think the Buckeyes can win this thing.
Our fans wanted Bama, and we got 'em. I'm sure the players will be ready.
bucksfan2
12-08-2014, 02:48 PM
Truth be told I don't know what to think of Alabama. They struggled a little bit away from home this season. This isn't a dominant Alabama team, but talented well coached team. They have won a bunch of different ways, in low scoring slug fests and high scoring tack meets. It will be interesting to see what Blake Sims does because has struggled away from home and at times had looked shaky in big games only to bounce back late. I think they are the most well rounded team in the SEC but far from a dominant team. Although Amari Cooper scares the living daylights out of me. If OSU plays the way it did against Wisconsin and MSU I think they have a chance to win, not a great chance, but a chance.
I don't buy Oregon. I still see a finesse team that when punched in the mouth will crumble. They still seem like that team who is going to line up and try to outscore you. I think its Alabama's to lose but it wouldn't shock me if any of the 4 remaining teams won. I give OSU a slight edge because of one Cardale Jones!!!!!
LoganBuck
12-08-2014, 03:01 PM
Amari Cooper gives me visions of Sammy Watkins running wide open all over again.
The running backs don't really scare me anymore than Melvin Gordon did. What worries me, is will Ohio State be able to stop both the run and the pass? Can't sell out to stop the run or the pass against Bama. The good thing is Bennett and Bosa will be the best pair of defensive linemen that Alabama has seen this year. I really worry about the Ohio State secondary.
The Alabama defense is the best unit that Ohio State will have seen this year, by a mile. I would feel much better about the matchup with JT Barrett at QB.
BuckeyeRed27
12-08-2014, 03:38 PM
Amari Cooper gives me visions of Sammy Watkins running wide open all over again.
The running backs don't really scare me anymore than Melvin Gordon did. What worries me, is will Ohio State be able to stop both the run and the pass? Can't sell out to stop the run or the pass against Bama. The good thing is Bennett and Bosa will be the best pair of defensive linemen that Alabama has seen this year. I really worry about the Ohio State secondary.
The Alabama defense is the best unit that Ohio State will have seen this year, by a mile. I would feel much better about the matchup with JT Barrett at QB.
If OSU plays on winning they better figure out a way to score at least 35 points. I would rather have Barrett of course, but Jones deep ball ability is intrugining since that is probably the weakest part of the Alabama defense. If he can hit a couple long ones like he did against Wisconsin and keep the safety out of the box so we can run, we have a shot at it. Oh yeah and don't turn the ball over.
dougdirt
12-08-2014, 03:53 PM
Amari Cooper gives me visions of Sammy Watkins running wide open all over again.
The running backs don't really scare me anymore than Melvin Gordon did. What worries me, is will Ohio State be able to stop both the run and the pass? Can't sell out to stop the run or the pass against Bama. The good thing is Bennett and Bosa will be the best pair of defensive linemen that Alabama has seen this year. I really worry about the Ohio State secondary.
The Alabama defense is the best unit that Ohio State will have seen this year, by a mile. I would feel much better about the matchup with JT Barrett at QB.
Alabama gave up 630 yards to Auburn two weeks ago. Is their defense really "a mile" better than that of Michigan State? In terms of yards allowed per game the Buckeyes have faced four of the top 10 teams in the country. Alabama is 11th. Now we can talk about how those four teams faced Big 10 teams most of the season, but we aren't talking about Alabama versus SMU here.
villain612
12-08-2014, 04:03 PM
FWIW, here's Alabama's schedule/results this season:
vs WVU W 23-20
vs Florida Atlantic W 41-0
vs Southern Miss W 52-12
vs Florida W 21-42
@ Ole Miss L 17-23
@Arkansas W 14-13
vs Texas A&M W 59-0
@ Tennessee W 34-20
@ LSU W 20-13
vs Mississippi St W 25-20
vs Western Carolina W 48-14
vs Auburn W 55-44
CCG Missouri W 42-13
When it comes to team stats for offense and defense, I always look at points, not yards.
Not that yards aren't important, but there are plenty of "bend but don't break" defenses that keep you out of the endzone.
When it comes to team defense as points per game, Alabama is 4th in the nation at 16.6 per game. Michigan State is 12th and Wisconsin 13th.
I am interested to see what game plan Meyer cooks up.
Roy Tucker
12-08-2014, 04:11 PM
I'll fess up and confess that the 2 games I thought OSU would get drilled in were Mich. St. and Wisconsin. So any predictions I make must be taken with a large grain of NaCl.
redsfan30
12-08-2014, 04:16 PM
If the Ohio State team that came to play Saturday night comes to play on January 1, they are beating Alabama. That was the most dominating performance I have ever seen from an Ohio State team on that kind of stage.
If the Ohio State team that came to play against Indiana comes to play on January 1, Alabama is beating them.
I trust Urban Meyer fully in a situation like this. For a Big 10 team to beat an Alabama on the national stage they will have to play an SEC style of game and Meyer obviously knows how to play that game and he's got the horses to do it. The key to the game in my eyes will be the Alabama receiving group against the Ohio State secondary. If the Buckeyes can contain the passing game (they won't stop it, just gotta keep it in reasonable check) I think they can win the game.
I cannot wait until kickoff.
villain612
12-08-2014, 04:24 PM
All the pressure is on Bama in this situation. No one expects Ohio State to win. So the team should be playing loose and bold IMO.
The only things I can say is that they need to score touchdowns and not field goals and they can't let Alabama control the tempo of the game. Sims had a really solid year at QB. I'm really curious to see if the pass rush can get some pressure on him.
dougdirt
12-08-2014, 04:26 PM
When it comes to team stats for offense and defense, I always look at points, not yards.
Not that yards aren't important, but there are plenty of "bend but don't break" defenses that keep you out of the endzone.
When it comes to team defense as points per game, Alabama is 4th in the nation at 16.6 per game. Michigan State is 12th and Wisconsin 13th.
I am interested to see what game plan Meyer cooks up.
I don't believe the whole "bend but don't break" thing is more than luck. Yes, a shortened field does change things slightly, but if you are giving up yards all the way down the field while trying to stop teams, your defense isn't really that good and eventually it's going to catch up to you.
Roy Tucker
12-08-2014, 04:49 PM
Eh, I think all college defenses do a lot of bending these days. With spread offenses and bubble screens and all that, there really aren't any classic doomsday type defenses. Seems everyone gets shredded at one time or another.
villain612
12-08-2014, 04:59 PM
I don't believe the whole "bend but don't break" thing is more than luck. Yes, a shortened field does change things slightly, but if you are giving up yards all the way down the field while trying to stop teams, your defense isn't really that good and eventually it's going to catch up to you.
Perhaps so. I'd like to see someone do some statistical analysis on it. I really have no idea if it's luck or if it's a credit to a change in scheme depending on the position of the field or a team's ability to create turnovers or what.
I think if a team has a suspect secondary, then it's entirely possible for them to give up big plays and let the other team get in their territory but then tighten up when there is less field to cover. It's a lot easier for a secondary to cover 30 yards of field as opposed to 70. Dunno if that applies here but it's an interesting thought.
LoganBuck
12-08-2014, 05:03 PM
Alabama gave up 630 yards to Auburn two weeks ago. Is their defense really "a mile" better than that of Michigan State? In terms of yards allowed per game the Buckeyes have faced four of the top 10 teams in the country. Alabama is 11th. Now we can talk about how those four teams faced Big 10 teams most of the season, but we aren't talking about Alabama versus SMU here.
I don't think a single player for Wisconsin could start on Alabama's defense, and I don't think a single player in the Michigan State secondary could start at Alabama. I don't think Alabama looks at Ohio State and sees a talent level that they haven't already shared a field with this year. Ohio State is a comparable team to the SEC upper crust, but Alabama wins more of those match ups than they lose. I am not saying it is impossible, but I am legitimately worried about how well Ohio State will be able to match up.
Sea Ray
12-08-2014, 05:19 PM
I think OSU's chances of winning vs Alabama come down to Cardale Jones. Unless OSU blows out Alabama in every phase like they did vs Wisconsin, there will be a lot of pressure on Jones to make plays. Can he lead a team to a closely fought win in a big game like this?
BuckeyeRed27
12-08-2014, 06:03 PM
I think OSU's chances of winning vs Alabama come down to Cardale Jones. Unless OSU blows out Alabama in every phase like they did vs Wisconsin, there will be a lot of pressure on Jones to make plays. Can he lead a team to a closely fought win in a big game like this?
Absolutely. He played a nice game, but I thought he missed a lot of reads in the running game. I'm also really afraid of the tipped ball interception. He was pretty wild on intermediate passes. Thomas did a nice job of getting to those balls, but seems like something to watch.
Kingspoint
12-09-2014, 01:25 AM
BTW, a hearty congratulations to The Ohio State University. You/they earned it.
I don't think it was punishment for the Big 12, as much as a reward for Ohio State.
I think both points are correct. No one, including myself, expected a 4.5 underdog (for obvious reasons too) in a conference championship game to simply destroy their opponent the way OSU did. It was masterful, and the committee simply couldn't ignore that.
But also.... http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11995102/jilted-big-12-make-changes-playoff-relevance
During an interview on ESPN on Sunday, selection committee chairman Jeff Long made it pretty clear that the Bears and Horned Frogs were hurt by not playing in a conference championship game.
The Alabama defense is the best unit that Ohio State will have seen this year, by a mile.
I have to disagree here buddy. It's good, but is it any better then Wisconsin's, as far as an overall assessment? Wisconsin's defense was best in the B10, and up there nationally too. Alabama's pass defense is not very good; but their rush defense is. Here's a little comparison between Alabama and Wisconsin.....
TOTAL YARDS ALLOWED..... Wisconsin 9th, Alabama 20th
YDS/GAME ...................... Wisconsin 4th, Alabama 11th
PASS ............................. Wisconsin 8th, Alabama 82nd
PASS YD/GAME ............... Wisconsin 5th, Alabama 60th
RUSH ............................ Wisconsin 24th, Alabama 4th
RUSH YDS/GAME ............. Wisconsin 2nd, Alabama 17th
POINTS .......................... Wisconsin 9th, Alabama 2nd
POINTS/GAME ................. Wisconsin 4th, Alabama 13th
So, Alabama's "Achille's Heel" is their pass defense. This was an Alabama team that allowed Auburn (64th in Passing) to throw up 456 passing yards against them.
I think the key to this game, as far OSU winning, is in the play of their offensive line vs 'Bama's defensive front. And OSU's O-line, which is young, has been somewhat erratic this year with it's highs and lows. I don't know how successful we'll be running the ball; but if our offensive line can protect/give Cardale time to pass, for plays/routes to form, then it could be trouble. I fully expect 'Bama to do more blitzing, mix it up and try to exert more pressure up front and not allow this "inexperienced" QB the time.
I have to disagree here buddy. It's good, but is it any better then Wisconsin's, as far as an overall assessment? Wisconsin's defense was best in the B10, and up there nationally too. Alabama's pass defense is not very good; but their rush defense is. Here's a little comparison between Alabama and Wisconsin.....
TOTAL YARDS ALLOWED..... Wisconsin 9th, Alabama 20th
YDS/GAME ...................... Wisconsin 4th, Alabama 11th
PASS ............................. Wisconsin 8th, Alabama 82nd
PASS YD/GAME ............... Wisconsin 5th, Alabama 60th
RUSH ............................ Wisconsin 24th, Alabama 4th
RUSH YDS/GAME ............. Wisconsin 2nd, Alabama 17th
POINTS .......................... Wisconsin 9th, Alabama 2nd
POINTS/GAME ................. Wisconsin 4th, Alabama 13th
So, Alabama's "Achille's Heel" is their pass defense. This was an Alabama team that allowed Auburn (64th in Passing) to throw up 456 passing yards against them.
I think the key to this game, as far OSU winning, is in the play of their offensive line vs 'Bama's defensive front. And OSU's O-line, which is young, has been somewhat erratic this year with it's highs and lows. I don't know how successful we'll be running the ball; but if our offensive line can protect/give Cardale time to pass, for plays/routes to form, then it could be trouble. I fully expect 'Bama to do more blitzing, mix it up and try to exert more pressure up front and not allow this "inexperienced" QB the time.
There are a few factors that skew the numbers:
1.) Alabama itself scores rather quickly, giving the opponent more time with the ball. Wisconsin naturally takes time off the clock with the running game - shortening the game for the defense.
2.) The average SEC West offense is a tad more dangerous/balanced than the typical B1G offense.
I think that Alabama will be the most athletic team the Buckeyes have faced, by a wide margin. Athletically, Ohio State sticks out in the B1G but would not in the SEC.
bucksfan2
12-09-2014, 09:38 AM
There are a few factors that skew the numbers:
1.) Alabama itself scores rather quickly, giving the opponent more time with the ball. Wisconsin naturally takes time off the clock with the running game - shortening the game for the defense.
2.) The average SEC West offense is a tad more dangerous/balanced than the typical B1G offense.
I think that Alabama will be the most athletic team the Buckeyes have faced, by a wide margin. Athletically, Ohio State sticks out in the B1G but would not in the SEC.
The SEC West may have been the most over hyped division in recent history. I don't think Miss St or Ole Miss were as good as many thought they were. LSU struggled mightily to get the ball across midfield at times this season.
Sea Ray
12-09-2014, 09:50 AM
I have to disagree here buddy. It's good, but is it any better then Wisconsin's, as far as an overall assessment? Wisconsin's defense was best in the B10, and up there nationally too. Alabama's pass defense is not very good; but their rush defense is. Here's a little comparison between Alabama and Wisconsin.....
TOTAL YARDS ALLOWED..... Wisconsin 9th, Alabama 20th
YDS/GAME ...................... Wisconsin 4th, Alabama 11th
PASS ............................. Wisconsin 8th, Alabama 82nd
PASS YD/GAME ............... Wisconsin 5th, Alabama 60th
RUSH ............................ Wisconsin 24th, Alabama 4th
RUSH YDS/GAME ............. Wisconsin 2nd, Alabama 17th
POINTS .......................... Wisconsin 9th, Alabama 2nd
POINTS/GAME ................. Wisconsin 4th, Alabama 13th
So, Alabama's "Achille's Heel" is their pass defense. This was an Alabama team that allowed Auburn (64th in Passing) to throw up 456 passing yards against them.
I think the key to this game, as far OSU winning, is in the play of their offensive line vs 'Bama's defensive front. And OSU's O-line, which is young, has been somewhat erratic this year with it's highs and lows. I don't know how successful we'll be running the ball; but if our offensive line can protect/give Cardale time to pass, for plays/routes to form, then it could be trouble. I fully expect 'Bama to do more blitzing, mix it up and try to exert more pressure up front and not allow this "inexperienced" QB the time.
Pretty tough to compare defensive stats of two teams which shared only one common opponent. Let's see if we can find some common ground. Can we agree that neither one of us expect OSU to score 59 vs Alabama? If you really "disagree that Bama's D is better than Wisconsin" then I guess you'd expect about 60 pts from OSU but I doubt that's the case
The SEC West may have been the most over hyped division in recent history. I don't think Miss St or Ole Miss were as good as many thought they were. LSU struggled mightily to get the ball across midfield at times this season.
Perhaps, or perhaps not. It is hard to judge based on the very weak non-conference schedules (common to almost all major college programs these days). Was Miss St and Ole Miss really not as good as expected, or was the conference just that tough?
You say that LSU struggled mightily to get the ball across midfield at times this season, but that was against SEC west teams. Was it the quality of the defenses in the SEC west or was the LSU offense lacking?
The eye-test says that the SEC west is loaded with speed and size. Are they loaded with really good football teams? It is hard to tell.
I tend to think if OSU played Alabama this week, Alabama would win and fairly comfortably...although not a blowout. I've always thought the great equalizer in these games is the month to prepare for them. With that much time, anything can happen as we've seen plenty of times. I think this is where creative coaches can make a big difference. I'm still convinced this is what happened in 2006. Meyer coached circles around Tressel (something a lot of coaches did in his tenure) with the time they had to prepare. Saban is not Tressel so I would expect Alabama to be prepared and well-coached like they always are. But I think Meyer knows he's out-matched on paper in this game and the only real chance to win is through creative game planning. If they go out and try to run their normal offense and normal defense like they did all year, they have little chance of winning the game. If he can come up with the right way to attack their defense and slow down Cooper, they have a chance. A month is a long time to prepare for one game.
traderumor
12-09-2014, 03:36 PM
I tend to think if OSU played Alabama this week, Alabama would win and fairly comfortably...although not a blowout. I've always thought the great equalizer in these games is the month to prepare for them. With that much time, anything can happen as we've seen plenty of times. I think this is where creative coaches can make a big difference. I'm still convinced this is what happened in 2006. Meyer coached circles around Tressel (something a lot of coaches did in his tenure) with the time they had to prepare. Saban is not Tressel so I would expect Alabama to be prepared and well-coached like they always are. But I think Meyer knows he's out-matched on paper in this game and the only real chance to win is through creative game planning. If they go out and try to run their normal offense and normal defense like they did all year, they have little chance of winning the game. If he can come up with the right way to attack their defense and slow down Cooper, they have a chance. A month is a long time to prepare for one game.While I think Tressel got his hat handed to him in that game, I don't think its fair to say he was outcoached by "a lot of coaches." I think the record speaks for itself. He may have not played a palatable style, but Tressel was a very successful coach in his tenure and did things other Ohio State coaches could not, and at times with less talent than they had...especially John Cooper.
RiverRat13
12-09-2014, 03:42 PM
While I think Tressel got his hat handed to him in that game, I don't think its fair to say he was outcoached by "a lot of coaches." I think the record speaks for itself. He may have not played a palatable style, but Tressel was a very successful coach in his tenure and did things other Ohio State coaches could not, and at times with less talent than they had...especially John Cooper.
All we heard before the Fiesta Bowl against Notre Dame was how Weiss was going to out-scheme JT with a month-plus to prepare. All we heard before the Rose Bowl against Oregon was how unstoppable Chip Kelly's offense was that season and how he was going to get the best of JT. Yet somehow, simple ol' Jim Tressel found a way to win both of those games against offensive geniuses.
Tressel was 6-4 in bowl games, including 4-3 in BCS Bowls (5-4 and 3-3 if you take away the vacated Arkansas game). Meyer definitely out-coached him the '06 championship game, but that's one of the few times I can remember that happening.
Tressel was great at just about everything but Xs and Os. He got top tier talent and his teams played disciplined football. Where he excelled was that his teams never really lost when OSU had a significant talent advantage.... in other words, there weren't many big upsets....ala John Cooper. But his style was designed not to lose. When he played teams that could match, or were close, to OSU in talent, his teams regularly when they should have won. His super conservative offensive style could run over weak opponents, but when it couldn't, he had no answer. They lost too many games during his tenure, where a better game plan coach would have won. At least that's how I see it.
I loved him as the head of the program. I always wanted him to stay in Columbus a long time, but turn over the offense to someone else. When it was clear he would never do that, I was ready for a change. But I do respect his accomplishments and think his record is one of a very good college football head coach. But he was his own worst enemy at times. It was frustrating to watch.
RiverRat13
12-09-2014, 04:22 PM
Tressel was great at just about everything but Xs and Os. He got top tier talent and his teams played disciplined football. Where he excelled was that his teams never really lost when OSU had a significant talent advantage.... in other words, there weren't many big upsets....ala John Cooper. But his style was designed not to lose. When he played teams that could match, or were close, to OSU in talent, his teams regularly when they should have won. His super conservative offensive style could run over weak opponents, but when it couldn't, he had no answer. They lost too many games during his tenure, where a better game plan coach would have won. At least that's how I see it.
Just looking at his 7 BCS games, Tressel beat Miami (+12) and Kansas State (+7) as significant underdogs. The Florida game was the only BCS game he lost that OSU was actually favored. As far as the Michigan series goes, OSU was heavy dogs in '01 and '04 when the Bucks ended up winning. The real reason there weren't many big upsets is that his team was rarely the underdog.
bucksfan2
12-09-2014, 04:44 PM
Tressel was great at just about everything but Xs and Os. He got top tier talent and his teams played disciplined football. Where he excelled was that his teams never really lost when OSU had a significant talent advantage.... in other words, there weren't many big upsets....ala John Cooper. But his style was designed not to lose. When he played teams that could match, or were close, to OSU in talent, his teams regularly when they should have won. His super conservative offensive style could run over weak opponents, but when it couldn't, he had no answer. They lost too many games during his tenure, where a better game plan coach would have won. At least that's how I see it.
I loved him as the head of the program. I always wanted him to stay in Columbus a long time, but turn over the offense to someone else. When it was clear he would never do that, I was ready for a change. But I do respect his accomplishments and think his record is one of a very good college football head coach. But he was his own worst enemy at times. It was frustrating to watch.
One thing to consider during Tressel's reign was the B1G was better. PSU under Paterno wasn't great, but they were still reputable. Michigan was still fielding championship level teams and Bert was doing a nice job in Wisconsin. You also had current dregs like Purdue and Illinois who were competitive during Tressel's early years. MSU wasn't MSU at the time, but they may be the only school that is better since Tressel left.
As for the title game losses this has been rehashed over and over again, but the Ginn loss killed OSU's offense and I vividly remember a pass that barely cleared Malcolm Jenkins fingertips that went for a 3rd down touchdown and set Florida's wheels in motion. I always wondered had that pass been tipped or even picked off what the outcome would have been. Then against LSU, OSU scored a TD which would have given them a 14 point lead only to get called back on a bad holding penalty. I think in the LSU game Tressel in staff came out with what amounted to a good game plan, LSU just overwhelmed them as the game went on.
I think Tressel's biggest flaw was he never went for the jugular, he was happy playing a field position game and not an overly aggressive game. It hurt him at times, but then again he has a great deal of success at OSU.
My point wasn't that he wasn't a good head coach, it was that I thought he was outcoached a decent amount. He had a major talent advantage the majority of the games he coached, so it didn't cost them too many games, but I thought it was pretty obvious at times. The 2005 loss to Texas was on him, IMO. That was just a bad loss..... and Texas went on to win the National Championship that year. I think that may have been Tressel's best team once Troy Smith took over. The Fiesta Bowl loss to Texas was bad as well, and the home loss to USC was the perfect example of Tressel being a victim of his own mentality.
Maybe the better way to put it isn't that he was out-coached, but out "X'd and O'd" in the game.... and even further that it was only on the offensive side of the equation. The problem was the offense. But there's more to coaching than X's and O's, and Tressel was great at most of those. I think Marvin Lewis is similar. Against really smart coaches, he gets out-maneuvered and out game-planned (see all of their playoff losses), but Marvin does an excellent job at most of the other aspects of being an NFL head coach.
BuckeyeRed27
12-09-2014, 06:38 PM
I feel like I just logged into the 2007 version of Redzone :)
villain612
12-09-2014, 07:16 PM
I really liked Jim Tressel, and I appreciate his time here. He ended the Michigan curse and won a good amount of BCS bowl games too. Even though his offense could be frustrating to watch at times, it was nice to always have a shutdown defense.
With that said, I think once it's all said and done, Urban Meyer will bring more success to the program than Tressel did.
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