Ohio State Football 2014 [Archive] - Page 3 - RedsZone.com - Cincinnati Reds Fans' Home for Baseball Discussion

bucksfan2

12-10-2014, 10:04 AM

My point wasn't that he wasn't a good head coach, it was that I thought he was outcoached a decent amount. He had a major talent advantage the majority of the games he coached, so it didn't cost them too many games, but I thought it was pretty obvious at times. The 2005 loss to Texas was on him, IMO. That was just a bad loss..... and Texas went on to win the National Championship that year. I think that may have been Tressel's best team once Troy Smith took over. The Fiesta Bowl loss to Texas was bad as well, and the home loss to USC was the perfect example of Tressel being a victim of his own mentality.

Maybe the better way to put it isn't that he was out-coached, but out "X'd and O'd" in the game.... and even further that it was only on the offensive side of the equation. The problem was the offense. But there's more to coaching than X's and O's, and Tressel was great at most of those. I think Marvin Lewis is similar. Against really smart coaches, he gets out-maneuvered and out game-planned (see all of their playoff losses), but Marvin does an excellent job at most of the other aspects of being an NFL head coach.

OSU lost to Texas because of a couple of reasons:
1) Troy Smith was suspended for the first half.
2) Ryan Hamby dropped a sure fire TD late in the game.
3) A guy named Vince Young.
But I tend to agree that team was the most loaded team I have seen at OSU in a long time. FWIW they also lost to Wisconsin that season.

The USC loss was bad, a loss that never should have happened. But if your going to take him to task for losing games, you also have to give him credit for winning big games. Beating Oklahoma St with Justin Zwick at QB and having to use Ted Ginn from time to time because Zwick was hurt. Beating Oregon when everyone thought they would lose. My only complaint was he got conservative towards the end of games. It wasn't an X's and O's issue, it was letting teams hang around where one broken play could flip the game.

MWM

12-10-2014, 11:29 AM

MWM, I think what you've said is true as long as you narrow your case to just the offensive side of the ball (Tressel had an offensive background). The defensive assistant coaches on his staffs, however, were excellent and rarely if ever "out coached"...

I agree, and that's what I said in my post. Tressel was a great administrator. He wasn't a defensive guy, so he made sure he had great people in place and let them do their job. I wish he would have done the same for the offense. But I also appreciate his tenure and what he brought to the table. It's not like there are dozens of great college coaches out there who would have done any better.

RedTeamGo!

12-10-2014, 12:14 PM

JT Barrett domestic dispute with his girlfriend :thumbdown:

traderumor

12-10-2014, 01:23 PM

JT Barrett domestic dispute with his girlfriend :thumbdown:That's ironic considering I just saw a joke with mugshots of bad behaving Alabama players in the form of the Brady Bunch show opening called "Saban's Bunch" circulating

BuckeyeRed27

12-10-2014, 07:43 PM

JT Barrett domestic dispute with his girlfriend :thumbdown:

From the initial reports, it sounds a bit like JT was the actual victim here. She admitted to hitting him and that he had asked her to leave and she told him she would "leave in the morning." Obviously there could be more to it, but I don't think this is a Ray Rice situation.

Todd Gack

12-10-2014, 09:09 PM

Just looking at his 7 BCS games, Tressel beat Miami (+12) and Kansas State (+7) as significant underdogs. The Florida game was the only BCS game he lost that OSU was actually favored. As far as the Michigan series goes, OSU was heavy dogs in '01 and '04 when the Bucks ended up winning. The real reason there weren't many big upsets is that his team was rarely the underdog.

Oh he out-coached Larry Coker? Like that's real tough to do.

RedTeamGo!

12-10-2014, 10:03 PM

From the initial reports, it sounds a bit like JT was the actual victim here. She admitted to hitting him and that he had asked her to leave and she told him she would "leave in the morning." Obviously there could be more to it, but I don't think this is a Ray Rice situation.

Either way it sucks

Slyder

12-10-2014, 10:09 PM

GAC

12-13-2014, 11:02 AM

If you really "disagree that Bama's D is better than Wisconsin" then I guess you'd expect about 60 pts from OSU but I doubt that's the case

Can you show me where I said that either Alabama or Wisconsin's defense's is better or worse then the other when compared side-by-side?

Everything is subjective. And that includes the statement made - which I responded to - that Alabama's defensive unit will be the best OSU faces this year. It could very well be; but from a statistical/national ranking standpoint, there's no great disparity IMO.

I simply utilized those national stats/rankings to attempt to do a comparison. I never said it was definitive or proved anything either way. But OSU played two teams in Michigan State and Wisconsin who were ranked nationally when it comes to good defenses. And they did a number on both of them. Does that mean they're going to do the same vs Alabama? Again, never said that.

But the statistics/ rankings -as incomplete and imperfect as they may be - do tell (reveal) something. And when it comes to Alabama's pass defense, it's their weakness. And it wasn't just the Auburn game either. There were several games this year where Alabama's defense gave it up when it came to total yardage/passing yardage. Their run defense, as I said, is stout.

But any chance OSU has - and yes, I do believe they have one - is exploiting 'Bama's weakness when it comes to pass defense.

And I also said that if our offensive line has "one of their games" ... then we don't have a chance at all.

Assembly Hall

12-13-2014, 11:18 AM

Can you show me where I said that either Alabama or Wisconsin's defense's is better or worse then the other when compared side-by-side?

Everything is subjective. And that includes the statement made - which I responded to - that Alabama's defensive unit will be the best OSU faces this year. It could very well be; but from a statistical/national ranking standpoint, there's no great disparity IMO.

I simply utilized those national stats/rankings to attempt to do a comparison. I never said it was definitive or proved anything either way. But OSU played two teams in Michigan State and Wisconsin who were ranked nationally when it comes to good defenses. And they did a number on both of them. Does that mean they're going to do the same vs Alabama? Again, never said that.

But the statistics/ rankings -as incomplete and imperfect as they may be - do tell (reveal) something. And when it comes to Alabama's pass defense, it's their weakness. And it wasn't just the Auburn game either. There were several games this year where Alabama's defense gave it up when it came to total yardage/passing yardage. Their run defense, as I said, is stout.

But any chance OSU has - and yes, I do believe they have one - is exploiting 'Bama's weakness when it comes to pass defense.

And I also said that if our offensive line has "one of their games" ... then we don't have a chance at all.

Great comments.

I did notice in that Mizzou game, that the 'Bama pass defense seemed to be caught off guard when the QB was scrambling. The Tigers hit them for some big plays deep in those cases.

traderumor

12-13-2014, 12:50 PM

Good thing he isn't in the NFL or they'd already ban him for the rest of this season and most of next year with pitchforks and torches drawn!
Wasn't the problem with Ray Rice that they sat on it, not that they rushed to judgment and acted swiftly and rashly?

Assembly Hall

12-13-2014, 12:53 PM

Wasn't the problem with Ray Rice that they sat on it, not that they rushed to judgment and acted swiftly and rashly?

I guess that depends on how you look at it.

traderumor

12-13-2014, 12:56 PM

Pretty tough to compare defensive stats of two teams which shared only one common opponent. Let's see if we can find some common ground. Can we agree that neither one of us expect OSU to score 59 vs Alabama? If you really "disagree that Bama's D is better than Wisconsin" then I guess you'd expect about 60 pts from OSU but I doubt that's the caseAh, a veiled "tougher competition" argument to discredit that the SEC champ might be mere mortals this year? It would seem more reasonable to think that "Alabama is going to have to torch OSU's D to win this game" since OSU has torched the best D's they have faced, excepting Penn St. But, when in doubt, use the "different levels of competition" fallacy to explain away even the hint of a chink in the armor of the SEC superiority complex.

Waiting for Big 10 inferiority complex response. Let me have it.

traderumor

12-13-2014, 01:00 PM

I guess that depends on how you look at it.Look at what? The NFL's handling of sitting on the tape of the beating in the elevator? That seemed pretty straightforward to me.

Assembly Hall

12-13-2014, 01:10 PM

Look at what? The NFL's handling of sitting on the tape of the beating in the elevator? That seemed pretty straightforward to me.

I am just saying we aren't privy to what led to that punch. The public outrage over that video led to IMO what the NFL did. And there was a backlash. I really don't have an opinion on it to be honest. Let's get back to talking about the Bucks.

Assembly Hall

12-13-2014, 01:16 PM

Ah, a veiled "tougher competition" argument to discredit that the SEC champ might be mere mortals this year? It would seem more reasonable to think that "Alabama is going to have to torch OSU's D to win this game" since OSU has torched the best D's they have faced, excepting Penn St. But, when in doubt, use the "different levels of competition" fallacy to explain away even the hint of a chink in the armor of the SEC superiority complex.

Waiting for Big 10 inferiority complex response. Let me have it.

Now that just made my day!!!!!!!!! As a B1G fan I don't really know how to measure 'Bama. To be honest I don't know how to measure the Bucks either. The only thing I got to go on is how each team performed in their own conference.

traderumor

12-13-2014, 01:24 PM

I am just saying we aren't privy to what led to that punch. The public outrage over that video led to IMO what the NFL did. And there was a backlash. I really don't have an opinion on it to be honest. Let's get back to talking about the Bucks.Well, I teach my sons that it is NEVER to be the response to a woman. I must be old-fashioned, but I teach it because they are bigger and stronger and have other options, even if it is self-defense. Anyhow, that's my last word to ensure I don't hijack the thread.

Assembly Hall

12-13-2014, 01:52 PM

Well, I teach my sons that it is NEVER to be the response to a woman. I must be old-fashioned, but I teach it because they are bigger and stronger and have other options, even if it is self-defense. Anyhow, that's my last word to ensure I don't hijack the thread.

I can appreciate that and have no problems with your philosophy what so ever. I am old skewl myself, but we don't always get all the facts until it goes to a jury. One question........if a woman stabbed you with fingernail file.......what would you do? Just askin'

traderumor

12-13-2014, 02:46 PM

I can appreciate that and have no problems with your philosophy what so ever. I am old skewl myself, but we don't always get all the facts until it goes to a jury. One question........if a woman stabbed you with fingernail file.......what would you do? Just askin'bleed, call 911, testify at trial...

Assembly Hall

12-13-2014, 03:17 PM

bleed, call 911, testify at trial...

As Sam Kinnison said in "Back to School"........"Good answer!"

villain612

12-13-2014, 03:18 PM

One cool thing to think about: we're finally getting to see some of Urban's recruits in game time.

Past two seasons the team has had decent years but they weren't Meyer's recruits. Now that he's had a few classes, this is finally starting to be his team, and they're young.

Bosa and Barrett are both Urban's guys among other impact players. Future looks bright.

cincrazy

12-13-2014, 08:12 PM

OSU lost to Texas because of a couple of reasons:
1) Troy Smith was suspended for the first half.
2) Ryan Hamby dropped a sure fire TD late in the game.
3) A guy named Vince Young.
But I tend to agree that team was the most loaded team I have seen at OSU in a long time. FWIW they also lost to Wisconsin that season.

The USC loss was bad, a loss that never should have happened. But if your going to take him to task for losing games, you also have to give him credit for winning big games. Beating Oklahoma St with Justin Zwick at QB and having to use Ted Ginn from time to time because Zwick was hurt. Beating Oregon when everyone thought they would lose. My only complaint was he got conservative towards the end of games. It wasn't an X's and O's issue, it was letting teams hang around where one broken play could flip the game.

If my memory is correct, that 2005 team's second loss was actually to Penn State in Happy Valley, against a pretty good Penn State team. That 2005 team was flowing with talent, and had more talent on defense than the 2006 edition that went to the title game. Also, the offense was the same 2006 offense, plus Santonio Holmes. Pretty freaking stacked. Sometimes the breaks just don't go your way.

cincrazy

12-13-2014, 08:15 PM

Oh he out-coached Larry Coker? Like that's real tough to do.

Clearly you're just here to troll and to not add anything substantial to the conversation. Because anyone with any decent memory knows that the Miami Hurricanes were a JUGGERNAUT who hadn't lost in about 2 years, and that Larry Coker was over 20+ games into his career without suffering a loss yet.

But you're right, he sucked as a coach and Tressel should get no credit for having them prepared against the best college football team of the modern era.

GAC

12-14-2014, 06:33 AM

I did notice in that Mizzou game, that the 'Bama pass defense seemed to be caught off guard when the QB was scrambling. The Tigers hit them for some big plays deep in those cases.

And Mizz, whose passing game is 96th nationally, put up 274 yds passing (Hunt 6 rec/169 yds). The Vols put up almost 400 total yards vs Alabama.

But the bottom line is that 'Bama won both of those games (destroyed Mizz).

I've stated it all year - and some may disagree with me, and that's fine - but just as in any other sport (MLB, NFL, etc) you have conferences/divisions that show themselves to be the best/strongest (and favorite) - I think the SEC West is the best (toughest) conference in CFB. But look what the Royals did in the AL play-offs, and you had two WC teams in the World Series.

Now what does any of the above mean? Probably very little, other then injecting possibilities (LOL)

But I've watched Alabama play a lot this year - they are a very balanced team offensively, and deserve to be #1 (until proven otherwise obviously). They're a damn good football team.

Here's what bothers me..... that having said the above, and as much as I respect the SEC and what they are able to achieve....that does not mean they are "superman", somehow invincible, that no team(s) outside the conference can either play with them, or beat them; but will be easily vanquished. Or that even the bad SEC teams would be winners/contenders in any of the other conferences. That's a totally subjective, and unprovable, position that goes over the top IMO.

Here's my "concern" with this upcoming bowl game .......

'Bama allows teams to pass against them. Even some of the mediocre/weak teams have put up the passing yardage. But 'Bama has still won those games.

I took a look at four of 'Bama's tight games vs Ole Miss, Arkansas, LSU, Mississippi State. The only team out of that group that beat 'Bama (Ole Miss) is the worst of the bunch rushing (61st), and managed a modest 76 yds vs them. Turnovers was the key there.

I think both of these offenses will try to spread it out. OSU will be one of the best teams 'Bama has faced this year when it comes to the running game (11th nationally). And at the onset of this game that is going to be 'Bama's objective IMO... exert pressure up front, stop the run, and put the pressure on our young QB to beat them. I hope Meyer shows some sort of patience, and doesn't abandon the running game too soon, or we could be in trouble.

If the game turns into a shoot-out - I think OSU may come up on the losing end. They have to try and do some clock management, keep 'Bama's offense off the field as much as possible, in order to give them a chance.

That's just my thoughts. ;)

Assembly Hall

12-14-2014, 11:35 AM

Great stuff GAC.

Every team has at least one Achilles heal. With 'Bama, I believe it is the deep ball. Another might be that their defense breaks down when the opponent's QB is out of the pocket. That being said, they are very diligent. They will break you down. And I think the key to the game will be can the Bucks contain the Tide's running game in some shape or form.

villain612

12-14-2014, 03:32 PM

I think Ohio State has the speed to matchup up with Alabama.

I think the lines will determine the winner.

bucksfan2

12-15-2014, 10:50 AM

If my memory is correct, that 2005 team's second loss was actually to Penn State in Happy Valley, against a pretty good Penn State team. That 2005 team was flowing with talent, and had more talent on defense than the 2006 edition that went to the title game. Also, the offense was the same 2006 offense, plus Santonio Holmes. Pretty freaking stacked. Sometimes the breaks just don't go your way.

Good memory. IIRC it was a night game and PSU was really the first to do a "White Out." That team was stacked will skill position talent all over the field.

Sea Ray

12-15-2014, 11:10 AM

Can you show me where I said that either Alabama or Wisconsin's defense's is better or worse then the other when compared side-by-side?

Sure. Look at post #487 in this thread. Someone said that Alabama's defense is the best OSU will have seen this year to which you replied:

I have to disagree here buddy

You then went on the compare the two "side by side". So you obviously think that Wisconsin is either as good as or better than Alabama defensively.

So if you weren't saying the above then what were you "disagreeing with" when responding to someone who said Bama's D is better than Wisc?

Tom Servo

12-15-2014, 12:21 PM

Bruce Feldman
‏@BruceFeldmanCFB
BREAKING #OhioState OC Tom Herman is expected to become the new head coach at #Houston, source told @FoxSports.

BuckeyeRed27

12-15-2014, 06:10 PM

Bruce Feldman
‏@BruceFeldmanCFB
BREAKING #OhioState OC Tom Herman is expected to become the new head coach at #Houston, source told @FoxSports.

Can't be too surprised, although I was selfishly hoping he would stick it out one more year. Haven't heard if he's going to coach in the playoffs or not.

villain612

12-16-2014, 10:47 PM

Because this was beautiful...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7hULJlAZvA

kaldaniels

12-16-2014, 11:36 PM

Sure. Look at post #487 in this thread. Someone said that Alabama's defense is the best OSU will have seen this year to which you replied:

You then went on the compare the two "side by side". So you obviously think that Wisconsin is either as good as or better than Alabama defensively.

So if you weren't saying the above then what were you "disagreeing with" when responding to someone who said Bama's D is better than Wisc?

I took it as he disagreed with the qualifying "by a mile". That's a pretty big qualifier.

But I'm just a guy that went back and read the post you mentioned, I'm not the author.

LoganBuck

12-17-2014, 10:01 AM

I stand by the mile quote, to think otherwise is delusional.

cincrazy

12-18-2014, 12:16 AM

In the last few years Bama's vaunted D has been torched by Auburn, Texas A&M, and Oklahoma, to name a few. When OSU was getting lit up in 2006 and 2007 in big games, they were "slow" and didn't have that "SEC speed." Yet Alabama's defense has fallen flat on its face in some big games the last few years, yet it doesn't hurt their reputation at all. Go figure.

I'm very aware that Alabama is a good team, and they SHOULD be favored. But to act like our offense won't move the ball or put up points against them just isn't living in reality.

redsfan30

12-18-2014, 12:53 PM

Gus Johnson=Boss.

GAC

12-19-2014, 06:17 AM

Sure. Look at post #487 in this thread. Someone said that Alabama's defense is the best OSU will have seen this year to which you replied:

"I have to disagree buddy"

You then went on the compare the two "side by side". So you obviously think that Wisconsin is either as good as or better than Alabama defensively.

So if you weren't saying the above then what were you "disagreeing with" when responding to someone who said Bama's D is better than Wisc?

You're hilarious. I've never seen anyone take huge leaps in assumptions on people's posts like you do.

Yes - I disagreed with that poster's statement. I injected Wisconsin's defense, and brought up both their's and Alabama's defensive stats to show they are comparable. You can't argue with stats, but I'm sure you'll find a way.

Which defense will be the best OSU has faced? Again, just as I stated before - I don't know. I simply threw out a comparison. Did I not even say it was "imperfect" and subjective, and therefore no sound determination can really be made? At this stage I don't think anyone can.

If you think Alabama's defense will be the best OSU faces this year then fine! I'm not going to lose any sleep over it (LOL).

Sea Ray

12-19-2014, 09:15 AM

You're hilarious. I've never seen anyone take huge leaps in assumptions on people's posts like you do.

Yes - I disagreed with that poster's statement. I injected Wisconsin's defense, and brought up both their's and Alabama's defensive stats to show they are comparable. You can't argue with stats, but I'm sure you'll find a way.

Which defense will be the best OSU has faced? Again, just as I stated before - I don't know. I simply threw out a comparison. Did I not even say it was "imperfect" and subjective, and therefore no sound determination can really be made? At this stage I don't think anyone can.

If you think Alabama's defense will be the best OSU faces this year then fine! I'm not going to lose any sleep over it (LOL).

The defenses are comparable because the opponents are NOT the same. In fact they share only one common opponent.

- - - Updated - - -

In the last few years Bama's vaunted D has been torched by Auburn, Texas A&M, and Oklahoma, to name a few. When OSU was getting lit up in 2006 and 2007 in big games, they were "slow" and didn't have that "SEC speed." Yet Alabama's defense has fallen flat on its face in some big games the last few years, yet it doesn't hurt their reputation at all. Go figure.

I'm very aware that Alabama is a good team, and they SHOULD be favored. But to act like our offense won't move the ball or put up points against them just isn't living in reality.

Moving the ball is a pretty low bar. I think they'll have a much harder time moving the ball than they did vs Wisc

RedTeamGo!

12-19-2014, 09:16 AM

Defensive stats do not count unless you play in the SEC. This is common knowledge.

Assembly Hall

12-19-2014, 10:05 AM

Defensive stats do not count unless you play in the SEC. This is common knowledge.

Now that just made coffee come out my nose!!!!!!!! Funny!

traderumor

12-19-2014, 02:44 PM

The defenses are comparable because the opponents are NOT the same. In fact they share only one common opponent.

- - - Updated - - -

Moving the ball is a pretty low bar. I think they'll have a much harder time moving the ball than they did vs WiscHave you EVER heard of the term Comps? Like Real Estate, you know, where while someone's house might not be EXACTLY like yours, you can assess the value of yours based on other similar types of houses and what their FMV is. Apply this to football, and I'm sure you can come up with some comps instead of using your presupposition that "SEC team statistical rankings are meaningless for comps because SEC is incomparable."

As for your second point, "I think" is meaningless since you give no reasons...or are we just to assume that an SEC team will be able to stop the Buckeyes offense, even though two highly regarded D's were torched by it?

villain612

12-20-2014, 12:39 AM

I'd say this year the SEC was stronger than the Big Ten...but not by anywhere near as much of a margin that it has been the past few years. The SEC East was pretty weak.

And how the h*ll does Mississippi get blown out by an unranked Arkansas team 30-0 and remain in the top ten? That's a joke.

For my money, the PAC 12 was the best conference in football this year.

GAC

12-20-2014, 07:13 AM

Defensive stats do not count unless you play in the SEC. This is common knowledge.

The only problem with this statement is that the SEC, in recent history, hasn't been too stellar playing defense when one looks at their scores overall (and championship games). It's pretty much whoever has the ball last wins! LOL

GAC

12-20-2014, 07:28 AM

I think Ohio State has the speed to matchup up with Alabama.

I think the lines will determine the winner.

Yep. And I said the same earlier.

As far as I'm concerned, this game will come down to our offensive line play vs their defensive front. Our offensive line is talented, but young. They've gotten better, as a unit, as the season has progressed. But the test is yet to come because they are going to have to play their best game ever IMO because Saban is going to have his boys attacking our offensive line from the get-go, blunting our run game and putting it all on the arm of Jones.

If Alabama wins that battle, we can't make adjustments, it's going to be a long day for the Buckeyes. We'll still put points on the board, but we won't win in the end IMO.

cincrazy

12-24-2014, 05:26 PM

The defenses are comparable because the opponents are NOT the same. In fact they share only one common opponent.

- - - Updated - - -

Moving the ball is a pretty low bar. I think they'll have a much harder time moving the ball than they did vs Wisc

Bama's vaunted defense has had a pretty miserable time trying to stop spread, up-tempo offenses the last several seasons.

Sea Ray

01-13-2015, 05:26 PM

So does Cardale Jones go pro? Not that they know anything but the guys on First Take think he'd be a first rounder albeit a project for an NFL team

RedFanAlways1966

01-13-2015, 05:41 PM

So does Cardale Jones go pro? Not that they know anything but the guys on First Take think he'd be a first rounder albeit a project for an NFL team

Makes me laugh. First Rounder? No way. Any NFL GM that would do that (except Oakland and Cleveland ;)) s/b fired immediately and hired as another First Take mouthpiece. Three college games and straight to the NFL? I wish Cardale Jones well, but it is all just media blubber IMO.

traderumor

01-13-2015, 05:49 PM

Makes me laugh. First Rounder? No way. Any NFL GM that would do that (except Oakland and Cleveland ;)) s/b fired immediately and hired as another First Take mouthpiece. Three college games and straight to the NFL? I wish Cardale Jones well, but it is all just media blubber IMO.I could see Cleveland being all over it, hometown hero motif, they love that stuff more than winning games.

RedTeamGo!

01-13-2015, 05:51 PM

Makes me laugh. First Rounder? No way. Any NFL GM that would do that (except Oakland and Cleveland ;)) s/b fired immediately and hired as another First Take mouthpiece. Three college games and straight to the NFL? I wish Cardale Jones well, but it is all just media blubber IMO.

I heard a report NFL scouts are saying he is expected to be a 2nd or 3rd round pick right now.

If I were him I would go pro.

Sea Ray

01-13-2015, 05:55 PM

I could see Cleveland being all over it, hometown hero motif, they love that stuff more than winning games.

He'll be a better pro than Johnny M

- - - Updated - - -

I heard a report NFL scouts are saying he is expected to be a 2nd or 3rd round pick right now.

If I were him I would go pro.

I think he will declare. Reports are that he's not much into going to class

traderumor

01-13-2015, 05:58 PM

Faint praise and his academic attitude is based on a two year old tweet so what else ya got?

Sea Ray

01-13-2015, 06:10 PM

Faint praise and his academic attitude is based on a two year old tweet so what else ya got?

Not much. That's why I raised the question. I guess we'll know in the next couple days

jimbo

01-13-2015, 06:28 PM

I think he will declare. Reports are that he's not much into going to class

That's just bogus. He's been quoted multiple times recently about how important it is to him to get his degree. Kids do grow up.

Nice try though.

Sea Ray

01-13-2015, 06:40 PM

That's just bogus. He's been quoted multiple times recently about how important it is to him to get his degree. Kids do grow up.

Nice try though.

What am I trying to do? I don't care if he declares. I got no dog in this fight. I was just raising the question

BuckeyeRed27

01-13-2015, 07:28 PM

I think he should come back, even if he doesn't end up being the starter he can learn and mature a lot. Plus who's to say he wouldn't get a lot of playing time over the next 2 years.

If he grades out as a 3rd round pick or higher, I can see him going though. He already had his CFB "moment" and could hurt himself by not winning the starting job or sitting behind a healthy QB. He is also a father now and has other things to consider besides school.

Brutus

01-13-2015, 07:30 PM

What am I trying to do? I don't care if he declares. I got no dog in this fight. I was just raising the question

How about linking us to these so-called 'reports' -- preferably ones that don't simply regurgitate that 2012 tweet.

redrum

01-14-2015, 07:58 AM

I think there is a pretty good chance Cardale declares for the NFL draft and that Braxton transfers.

puca

01-14-2015, 08:05 AM

What am I trying to do? I don't care if he declares. I got no dog in this fight. I was just raising the question

I don't think anyone had a issue with you suggesting that he would declare, it was the characterization that Cardale had no interest in attending classes.

I also think he declares, but because he understands that it would be difficult to raise his draft stock any higher - especially with the quarterback situation at OSU.

Sea Ray

01-14-2015, 10:36 AM

How about linking us to these so-called 'reports' -- preferably ones that don't simply regurgitate that 2012 tweet.

Reports were from ESPN (Mike & Mike) and the radio (Bill Cunningham). I never claimed where they came from. I didn't even know about a tweet until someone brought it up around here. Why such an obsession over where these reports came from? There's a lot more to this than that. There's the issue of playing time and family need for $$. It's a legitimate story and worthy of discussion around here without you copping an attitude

Sea Ray

01-14-2015, 10:38 AM

I don't think anyone had a issue with you suggesting that he would declare, it was the characterization that Cardale had no interest in attending classes.

I also think he declares, but because he understands that it would be difficult to raise his draft stock any higher - especially with the quarterback situation at OSU.

I said there were reports which is accurate. What's the problem? Let's just deal with the question and accept that there are reports

villain612

01-14-2015, 11:00 AM

bucksfan2

01-14-2015, 12:25 PM

The QB situation is incredible.

I think Barrett is easily the most accurate passer. But Jones has a stronger arm that stretches the defense out more and not to mention, he's a refrigerator when he runs the ball. I have no idea who they should start.

With Jones' deep ball ability, I think that partially explains why Elliot has been so hot lately. Teams have to respect his ability to throw the deep ball, so they can't bring their safeties up for run support, so there's never more than 7 in the box, allowing better matchups for the guys up front. I can't recall if defenses played against JT like that but the yards that Elliot has gained in those three games speak for themselves.

Here is what I think:
Barrett is coming back and I think he is Urban's guy. I am a little weary about his ankle and the idea of him being full go at the start of the season let alone spring practice.

I think Cardale should declare. I think it is a risk with a guy with 2 years remaining. But he is 22 years old, has already used his redshirt, and I don't think his stock will ever be higher. It would be a risk, but he has all the measurables to play at the next level, probably more than Barrett and Miller.

Miller is the wild card. I can see him transferring and/or returning. I actually could see Meyer working a system where both get reps, but Miller gets more of a shot at WR to make it to the next level, a la Randel-El.

Sea Ray

01-14-2015, 12:40 PM

jimbo

01-14-2015, 01:05 PM

Here is what I think:
Barrett is coming back and I think he is Urban's guy. I am a little weary about his ankle and the idea of him being full go at the start of the season let alone spring practice.

I think Cardale should declare. I think it is a risk with a guy with 2 years remaining. But he is 22 years old, has already used his redshirt, and I don't think his stock will ever be higher. It would be a risk, but he has all the measurables to play at the next level, probably more than Barrett and Miller.

Miller is the wild card. I can see him transferring and/or returning. I actually could see Meyer working a system where both get reps, but Miller gets more of a shot at WR to make it to the next level, a la Randel-El.

I think Miller will, and should, transfer. He has one more shot at making a statement for the NFL as a QB. He needs to go where he will be the man with no distractions. I'll hate to see him in another uniform, but he needs to do what is in his best interests.

Barrett won't be ready for spring practice, so that means Jones would be the #1 QB at this time. Why not allow Barrett to take this year to get fully healthy and take the backup spot? That means Jones has a full season to develop even more and if he has a season I think we all think he can, he'll be NFL ready. He declares for the draft in 2016 and Barrett has two seasons with the full-time job for himself.

I love Barrett, but after what I saw in those last three games, and against two of the best teams in the country, I think Jones makes this team even better. And I just know I want nothing to do with any kind of platoon-ship of quarterbacks whatsoever.

Brutus

01-14-2015, 02:30 PM

Reports were from ESPN (Mike & Mike) and the radio (Bill Cunningham). I never claimed where they came from. I didn't even know about a tweet until someone brought it up around here. Why such an obsession over where these reports came from? There's a lot more to this than that. There's the issue of playing time and family need for $$. It's a legitimate story and worthy of discussion around here without you copping an attitude

You mean talk radio? That's not a report... that's talking heads just speculating based off the same regurgitated tweet.

I'm not copping an attitude about discussing whether Cardale Jones might go pro. I'm just trying to eliminate the ridiculous rumor mongering about a kid's class attendance unless you actually have something a little more specific than "reports." Clearly, if you're citing talk radio, you don't.

BuckeyeRed27

01-14-2015, 02:32 PM

I think Miller will, and should, transfer. He has one more shot at making a statement for the NFL as a QB. He needs to go where he will be the man with no distractions. I'll hate to see him in another uniform, but he needs to do what is in his best interests.

Barrett won't be ready for spring practice, so that means Jones would be the #1 QB at this time. Why not allow Barrett to take this year to get fully healthy and take the backup spot? That means Jones has a full season to develop even more and if he has a season I think we all think he can, he'll be NFL ready. He declares for the draft in 2016 and Barrett has two seasons with the full-time job for himself.

I love Barrett, but after what I saw in those last three games, and against two of the best teams in the country, I think Jones makes this team even better. And I just know I want nothing to do with any kind of platoon-ship of quarterbacks whatsoever.

That's another thing to consider from Jones perspective, is that neither JT or Braxton will be ready for spring. He will have a lot of practices to cement his place if he stays.

Crazy tweet I saw about Jones: He has never started a game in Ohio Stadium or any college stadium for that matter.

villain612

01-14-2015, 03:22 PM

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Miller's recovery time after surgery supposed to be 10-12 months?

Not sure how a guy could just immediately step back into action once that time is up but I'm no doctor.

I think in the end, he's the odd man out in all this. I'd prefer both Barrett or Jones at QB over him.

IslandRed

01-14-2015, 03:25 PM

I think Cardale should declare. I think it is a risk with a guy with 2 years remaining. But he is 22 years old, has already used his redshirt, and I don't think his stock will ever be higher. It would be a risk, but he has all the measurables to play at the next level, probably more than Barrett and Miller.

I agree. I think Cardale should declare and I think someone will draft him higher than we'd think (1st/2nd rd).

If he declares, he'll get drafted but not all that high IMO. The warm fuzzies will wear off, and NFL scouts will start asking tougher questions about what his actual skills are and how they translate. Examples: Why was he passed up by J.T. Barrett?* Can he go through progressions or is he a one-read-then-take-off guy? Etc.

* Barrett's really good, so it's not proof Jones can't play at the next level, but NFL guys will want to know what Barrett did better -- and by extension, what Jones did worse.

villain612

01-14-2015, 03:37 PM

Someone going pro after just 3 starts would be incredibly unprecedented.

Just like this entire year for Ohio State.

BillDoran

01-14-2015, 05:30 PM

Barrett seems like the steadiest, most obvious choice for the job next year, but I can't shake the fact that EZE's explosion coincided with Cardale's arrival under center (or a few steps behind). I think the threat of that big arm really challenges the back half (Jones is more capable of throwing into tighter windows, longer balls) and takes the top off of a defense (credit here to Devin Smith as well), and as a result you see fewer safeties in the box, less commitment to the run.

It's not like the offense was stagnant this year, but it really seemed to hit its stride once Jones was given the keys.

Brutus

01-14-2015, 05:46 PM

Most flattering stat I've heard about this year's Ohio State team:

According to Nate Silver's 538 blog, OSU finished the season with the second-highes ELO rating of any college football team... EVER (or at least, since their dataset begins in 1982). Only the 1995 Nebraska team finished with a higher rating.

That's 32 seasons and only one team has finished with a better rating. Incredible.

BillDoran

01-14-2015, 06:08 PM

kaldaniels

01-14-2015, 06:24 PM

Didn't find the article and perhaps they address this, but wonder if that's just a function of the playoff format and new-ish conference championship trend.

I would imagine so. In a historical sense, I don't get excited about that. But as for what they accomplished this season, it rings volumes.

kaldaniels

01-14-2015, 06:28 PM

It would never happen...

But who's to say letting JT run the show for the first 12 games before handing the offense over to a fresh EZE and Cardale doesn't get optimal results over a single season?

RedFanAlways1966

01-14-2015, 10:17 PM

It would never happen...

But who's to say letting JT run the show for the first 12 games before handing the offense over to a fresh EZE and Cardale doesn't get optimal results over a single season?

Good point. I like to think an offensive line that seemed to get better as the season went on helped as well. BTW... anyone remember RB Rod Smith? Guess he wasn't missed lol.

cincrazy

01-14-2015, 10:28 PM

JT is a good QB and I'm a huge fan. But Cardale can simply do things the others can't. Especially when it comes to taking the top off a defense. I don't think it's any coincidence the offense, and the run game in particular, really peaked when he showed up. It just made us more difficult to prepare for, as even Saban stated. I don't think Jones is ready after three starts. He'd be a huge project at this point. Come back, get a whole season under your belt, and you're easily a 1st round pick. JT can hang around, get some snaps this year and play a meaningful role, and have the position to himself the following year.. when he'll only be a junior.

villain612

01-14-2015, 10:58 PM

It would never happen...

But who's to say letting JT run the show for the first 12 games before handing the offense over to a fresh EZE and Cardale doesn't get optimal results over a single season?

When you have to potentially play 15 games, it's not a bad idea.

Oregon was hurting bad on the injury front once the finals came around.

A longer season is going to require more depth of a potential champion.

villain612

01-14-2015, 11:00 PM

Roy Tucker

01-14-2015, 11:02 PM

This whole Braxton-JT-Cardale thing seems like a Rock Paper Scissors thing.

Acyually, I think it could be a detriment. There is going to be a lot of talk about it.

Redsfaithful

01-15-2015, 12:25 AM

It really comes down to Cardale's brain doesn't it? He has an NFL body and an NFL arm. It comes down to whether GMs will think he can handle reading NFL defenses/adjust to NFL speed of play. And since that comes down to coaching I think somebody would talk themselves into him in the 2nd round.

Brutus

01-15-2015, 12:26 AM

Didn't find the article and perhaps they address this, but wonder if that's just a function of the playoff format and new-ish conference championship trend.

They didn't address it, but most ELO systems do weight for recent performance; thus, if that is the case with Silver's ELO algorithm, then undoubtedly the addition of those games at the end help bump OSU's rating relative to past college teams.

Sea Ray

01-15-2015, 09:32 AM

You mean talk radio? That's not a report... that's talking heads just speculating based off the same regurgitated tweet.

I'm not copping an attitude about discussing whether Cardale Jones might go pro. I'm just trying to eliminate the ridiculous rumor mongering about a kid's class attendance unless you actually have something a little more specific than "reports." Clearly, if you're citing talk radio, you don't.

Fine. Then we disagree about "reports". To me reports are nothing official. It's just talk. You didn't have to cop an attitude about it. Just say something to the effect of "the only thing I've heard about this is some tweet from 2 yrs ago. What report did you hear?" Do that and I'd have happily told you where I heard it. Of course you're not the only one who's copped an attitude here. I wasn't "trying" anything. I was just bringing up an important question that hadn't been raised yet. The talk on ESPN was that college was not for everyone and perhaps he fits that mold. I don't know where they were getting that but I don't know how to characterize it other than "a report".

Chip R

01-15-2015, 11:05 AM

What is the eligibility status of the other two QBs?

Slyder

01-15-2015, 11:51 AM

What is the eligibility status of the other two QBs?

I know there's a LOT of rumors that Braxton is going to use the "Graduate Student" waiver (think Russell Wilson) to go somewhere to play next year. WVU, LSU are two of many school supposedly in big on him. If I'm Jones and they tell me I'm a 2nd or 3rd rounder in this QB class... I'm gone.

I wouldn't put it past him to test out really well at the combine and in shorts and all of a sudden he sees a Jake Locker type rise up draft boards.

jimbo

01-15-2015, 12:24 PM

WVU, LSU are two of many school supposedly in big on him.

What does this mean exactly? Are schools actively permitted to contact these kids, or are these schools that are rumored to be of Miller's interest?

Assembly Hall

01-15-2015, 12:28 PM

If I'm Jones and they tell me I'm a 2nd or 3rd rounder in this QB class... I'm gone.

I would be too. And I think that is exactly where he is sitting. I think there are quite a few teams out there with "established" QBs that aren't doing so good. Draft him, let him sit a year or two while he hones his skills behind a veteran. I could see the Bengals, Bears, Chiefs, Niners, and Eagles(to name a few) as being good fits for him. That being said, there are plenty of teams out there that he probably could start for, or at least I feel that Jones is better than what they got!

bucksfan2

01-15-2015, 12:51 PM

I am actually rooting for him to go pro. Its odd because as a fan I never want a player to go pro, but with Cardale its a different situation. Three games ago Cardale was my least favorite Buckeye in a long time. The only thing anyone really knew about Cardale was a tweet. However after three games Cardale's tenure as a Buckeye was perfect. You really can't describe it any other way, winning the B1G title game, beating Alabama in the Sugar Bowl, beating Oregon in the 1st playoff title game. He will never have to buy a drink in this state again, he can ride off into the sunset as a Buckeye legend because of his game, not a stupid tweet.

He may be the prototypical QB in the league today. Big frame and big arm, but nimble enough to make plays with his feet. In the last two games I saw a bunch of winning plays from Cardale. You saw him make very few mistakes against Alabama and Oregon. You saw the ability to avoid a sack, throw the ball away (unless it slips out of his hands), and the ability to bounce a QB sneak outside to gain the critical yard or two. He showed the ability to gain 8-10 yards on a 3rd down when the defense was playing coverage. He may not be able to run away from or over LB's in the pro game, but DB's may not want to take him on. Right now I see him as a very raw Big Ben, I can see a team taking a flier on him in the 3rd round if they have a QB in place but want to groom one.

I do want to see him get his degree and shove it in the face of everyone who criticized him for one tweet, me included.

dougdirt

01-15-2015, 01:53 PM

Assembly Hall

01-15-2015, 01:58 PM

To me, the most endearing quality about him, is the situation he excelled in. Geez, the kid got thrown into the fire and accomplished what very few thought he could. I cannot imagine the amount of pressure that he must have felt. He approached it just like it was another day at the office. That speaks volumes to me, most would have crumbled. I feel most NFL teams took notice of that.

traderumor

01-15-2015, 01:58 PM

So the options are:

Play football somewhere that won't pay you money in the hopes that someone in the future will pay you to play football.

OR

Go play football somewhere that will pay you right now.

Tough choice. Not.

I would not agree that it is that simple, unless you look at making big decisions for your life's direction with this much triviality.

There are more costs and benefits than a paycheck in making this big a decision, esp. when the NFL can end his earning potential at a pittance by cutting him and paying him very little. Now he's lost his college scholarship, will have to invest his own money in trying to get back into the league. And that's just one scenario.

But sure, its just a money grab decision. I'd say its more like "who will I let exploit me for a few years next season."

dougdirt

01-15-2015, 02:01 PM

I would not agree that it is that simple, unless you look at making big decisions for your life's direction with this much triviality.

If my life direction involved seven figures worth of salary or absolutely nothing with a chance to make it eight figures, I'm making the decision that gives me seven figures every time.

There's far too much risk and not enough reward in going back to school unless you are a 5th-7th rounder.

traderumor

01-15-2015, 02:10 PM

If my life direction involved seven figures worth of salary or absolutely nothing with a chance to make it eight figures, I'm making the decision that gives me seven figures every time.

There's far too much risk and not enough reward in going back to school unless you are a 5th-7th rounder.I'd call that an outlook on life based solely on greed. I hope he is smarter than that. Most aren't, because being a millionaire is all that really matters in life to most.

dougdirt

01-15-2015, 02:10 PM

I would not agree that it is that simple, unless you look at making big decisions for your life's direction with this much triviality.

There are more costs and benefits than a paycheck in making this big a decision, esp. when the NFL can end his earning potential at a pittance by cutting him and paying him very little. Now he's lost his college scholarship, will have to invest his own money in trying to get back into the league. And that's just one scenario.

But sure, its just a money grab decision. I'd say its more like "who will I let exploit me for a few years next season."

If he's a 4th round pick or better, he's going to be on a roster for two years, at least. That's over a million bucks in salary, not including any signing bonuses. If he goes higher then we are talking about even more money and potentially significantly more money.

You pretend as if going back to school means that he can't lose his scholarship and would have to invest his own money in trying to get back into the league. Heck, if he goes back to college he could lose his scholarship for something that probably wouldn't even get him in trouble in the NFL. Or he could get hurt. Or he loses his job to JT Barrett and he's just a year further away from going to the combine and having to hope people haven't forgotten about what he just did.

Going to the NFL when they want you is the best thing. They are going to give you money to do what someone else wants you to do for free.

traderumor

01-15-2015, 02:15 PM

If he's a 4th round pick or better, he's going to be on a roster for two years, at least. That's over a million bucks in salary, not including any signing bonuses. If he goes higher then we are talking about even more money and potentially significantly more money.

You pretend as if going back to school means that he can't lose his scholarship and would have to invest his own money in trying to get back into the league. Heck, if he goes back to college he could lose his scholarship for something that probably wouldn't even get him in trouble in the NFL. Or he could get hurt. Or he loses his job to JT Barrett and he's just a year further away from going to the combine and having to hope people haven't forgotten about what he just did.

Going to the NFL when they want you is the best thing. They are going to give you money to do what someone else wants you to do for free.Great, you got the guy two years down the road, he gets to live the high life for two years, hopefully doesn't get his brains scrambled while earning those two years. In those two years, all his "family and friends" and business partners will have stolen his earnings and he's back to square one, or deeply in debt. Then what?

dougdirt

01-15-2015, 02:15 PM

I'd call that an outlook on life based solely on greed. I hope he is smarter than that. Most aren't, because being a millionaire is all that really matters in life to most.

Oh please. It's called hedging your bets on the rest of your life. Being a millionaire isn't all that really matters in life to most. But having enough money to pay your bills matters a whole lot to just about everyone. Going to the NFL today gives him a big leg up on doing that versus going back to college and risking it all while not getting paid at all.

If he's smart he takes the money and runs. You can go back to college later if you want to/need to thanks to the money you made in the NFL. There is just too much risk to the future of your entire life in going back to school when the NFL is going to set you up with a seven figure salary right now.

dougdirt

01-15-2015, 02:16 PM

Great, you got the guy two years down the road, he gets to live the high life for two years, hopefully doesn't get his brains scrambled while earning those two years. In those two years, all his "family and friends" will have stolen his earnings and he's back to square one, or deeply in debt. Then what?

Oh. I didn't realize he couldn't get his brains scrambled while not earning in college. My bad. You've swayed me.

traderumor

01-15-2015, 02:20 PM

Oh. I didn't realize he couldn't get his brains scrambled while not earning in college. My bad. You've swayed me.Yea, he's playing a risky sport. The real point is that you make the decision all about getting a few million dollars as if that is going to solve the riddle. Apparently getting a big wad of money is all life should be about, right? I hope he has better voices than that whispering in his ear. Probably not.

dougdirt

01-15-2015, 02:22 PM

Yea, he's playing a risky sport. The real point is that you make the decision all about getting a few million dollars as if that is going to solve the riddle. Apparently getting a big wad of money is all life should be about, right?

No, getting a big wad of money isn't all life should be about. But when you can get a big wad of money for literally doing the exact same thing you would be doing otherwise for free, TAKE THE MONEY. The only risk in taking the money today instead of tomorrow is you get a smaller large wad of cash. The risks in not taking the money today is a very, very long list that in some cases ends up with no money at all.

traderumor

01-15-2015, 02:27 PM

No, getting a big wad of money isn't all life should be about. But when you can get a big wad of money for literally doing the exact same thing you would be doing otherwise for free, TAKE THE MONEY. The only risk in taking the money today instead of tomorrow is you get a smaller large wad of cash. The risks in not taking the money today is a very, very long list that in some cases ends up with no money at all.Getting the wad of money usually does nothing to change the "ends up with no money at all" story, he just got to have it in his name for a period of time. I wonder why professional athletes get exploited so easily?

dougdirt

01-15-2015, 02:30 PM

Getting the wad of money usually does nothing to change the "ends up with no money at all" story, he just got to have it in his name for a period of time. I wonder why professional athletes get exploited so easily?

Do professional athletes go broke? Sure they do. But let's not pretend that they all do, or even a majority of them do. Here's the big difference though, if you go broke it means you weren't at one point. Right now, Cardale Jones is broke. He can be very much not broke.

Brutus

01-15-2015, 02:32 PM

Fine. Then we disagree about "reports". To me reports are nothing official. It's just talk. You didn't have to cop an attitude about it. Just say something to the effect of "the only thing I've heard about this is some tweet from 2 yrs ago. What report did you hear?" Do that and I'd have happily told you where I heard it. Of course you're not the only one who's copped an attitude here. I wasn't "trying" anything. I was just bringing up an important question that hadn't been raised yet. The talk on ESPN was that college was not for everyone and perhaps he fits that mold. I don't know where they were getting that but I don't know how to characterize it other than "a report".

It's not copping an attitude at you, and it's not even about this specifically. Having been in the media off and on for 10 years, I'm just grumpy when I see rumors thrown around without sourcing them, especially when they're not even coming from credible places. If there are "reports" then people shouldn't be lazy and should just state where the so-called reports came from IMHO. Sadly, I've seen the same mistake from journalists on twitter and various sites as well, so this is a problem that isn't just limited to fans on message boards.

I've always said that if something is coming from a place that sounds credible, lead with that. Otherwise, it puts into question the veracity of the whole 'report.' If someone isn't willing to outright state where such a rumor came from, it must not be worth much.

Brutus

01-15-2015, 02:35 PM

redrum

01-15-2015, 02:50 PM

I think in this case it is less of a risk declaring for the draft than returning.

Assuming he would be drafted in the first 5 rounds (and I have to believe he would with his size, arm strength and performance), I don't see how he could realistically expect to improve his stock next year.

traderumor

01-15-2015, 02:58 PM

Do professional athletes go broke? Sure they do. But let's not pretend that they all do, or even a majority of them do. Here's the big difference though, if you go broke it means you weren't at one point. Right now, Cardale Jones is broke. He can be very much not broke.Since neither you nor I have any idea what the numbers are for "% of professional athletes who go broke," your opinion would be no better than mine, so let's not pretend like one of us knows the answer. I also completely understand the very black and white "opportunity cost" concept which you claim is the only decision rule in play here.

I happen to think and hope that each and every young person that makes this decision has some wisdom and/or wise advisors to not become the tragedy, the 30/30 story on ESPN, even if its not the majority. As if "well its not the majority case, so the ethic is 'grab the money stupid.'" I think the real tragedy is that most are right there with you.

villain612

01-15-2015, 03:00 PM

IslandRed

01-15-2015, 03:16 PM

Normally, if money is the primary motivating factor in deciding whether to go pro, I'd think a guy in Cardale's shoes would be better off returning. He certainly isn't ready for the NFL and could drastically improve his stock by coming back and getting more seasoning (I imagine there's still plenty of room to grow with various touch passes, some timing routes and reading blitzes, etc.)

That said, this case isn't like normal because he's in a situation where if he returns, he's not likely to play a ton, especially if Braxton returns. So like Doug said, sit the bench in college or get paid to sit the bench in the NFL? He's probably better off in the NFL where a team will likely want to develop him and get a return on their investment.

I tend to agree. He has the risk of not playing a lot next year at OSU. And if he does play a lot, he's risking his weaknesses (whatever they are) becoming obvious. The unknown is working in his favor at the moment. At the same time, the exhaustive draft process could go wrong for him just as easily as right. If he ends up a late-rounder and cut/practice-squadded in training camp, he's not exactly making out like a bandit.

villain612

01-15-2015, 03:18 PM

Cardale Jones to make draft announcement at 4pm
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/15/cardale-jones-to-make-nfl-draft-announcement-at-3-p-m/

Look's like he's leaving.

Thanks for the greatest 3 game stretch of Buckeye football in my lifetime. You will never have to buy your own drink in the state of Ohio ever again.

villain612

01-15-2015, 03:21 PM

Normally, if money is the primary motivating factor in deciding whether to go pro, I'd think a guy in Cardale's shoes would be better off returning. He certainly isn't ready for the NFL and could drastically improve his stock by coming back and getting more seasoning (I imagine there's still plenty of room to grow with various touch passes, some timing routes and reading blitzes, etc.)

That said, this case isn't like normal because he's in a situation where if he returns, he's not likely to play a ton, especially if Braxton returns. So like Doug said, sit the bench in college or get paid to sit the bench in the NFL? He's probably better off in the NFL where a team will likely want to develop him and get a return on their investment.

I agree. This being such a weak class at QB certainly helps in his favor.

I could see a team like Denver picking him in the 3rd or 4th round. Let Manning finish his career and develop the kid.

Sea Ray

01-15-2015, 03:21 PM

traderumor

01-15-2015, 03:53 PM

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/15/cardale-jones-to-make-nfl-draft-announcement-at-3-p-m/

Look's like he's leaving.

Thanks for the greatest 3 game stretch of Buckeye football in my lifetime. You will never have to buy your own drink in the state of Ohio ever again.

Yea, I'd have to say he's not calling a press conference to announce he's staying, but who knows with the selfie generation. It is National Hat Day, so maybe he will have three hats on the table and pick the one that he hopes will draft him.

Cardale, go hire a good agent and tell all your "family and friends" NO! Practice it now.

bucksfan2

01-15-2015, 04:11 PM

Jones and his girlfriend just had a daughter a few months back so I can understand the incentive to go for the money if he chooses, even though I'd love to have him back next year.

Cutoff day is today though.

Yes they do. Jones girlfriend (fiance I don't know) is also a nursing student at OSU. I think Doug is looking at this rather simplistically and there are various other factors to consider. Jones is taking a huge risk by declaring for the draft with 3 starts under his belt. If something happens and he doesn't impress in the draft process, what is his draft stock? Because at this point he can not go back to school. He can't rejoin the team and he is living off of his name in the state of Ohio.

If Jones is drafted around pick 100 he is pretty much guaranteed $500K with a $500K salary the first season. If he is drafted is the first round he is looking at $5M guaranteed, a pretty drastic difference. Oh and that extra year gets Jones another season at OSU, another season to learn, a year should allow him to get his college degree. Is it a risk, absolutely, and I wish him well regardless of what he decides.

Roy Tucker

01-15-2015, 04:18 PM

Boy, a simple twist of fate can certainly change things.

Jones is languishing on the bench for the last game of the year. He's not playing much, looking very meh when he does, and thinking about transferring. Then, boom, Barrett's ankle gets broken in the second half of the last game of the season and Jones goes on the wildest ride I've ever seen a 3rd string QB go. And now talking about a very real chance of getting drafted by the NFL. Talk about the outhouse to the penthouse.

Usually the 3rd stringer is some skinny white kid who can't even find his helmet to get in a game and when he does, he's got a severe case of deer in the headlights and looks like he's going to pee his pants.

I can't say which way is go. He certainly could use more seasoning and maturity, but he has handled this 3 game ride better beyond anyone's wildest dreams. Frankly, id tell him to take the money and go pro.

traderumor

01-15-2015, 04:21 PM

traderumor

01-15-2015, 04:28 PM

From an Ohio State perspective, it could color Braxton Miller's decision as well if Jones heads out.

Hoosier Red

01-15-2015, 04:38 PM

I tend to agree. He has the risk of not playing a lot next year at OSU. And if he does play a lot, he's risking his weaknesses (whatever they are) becoming obvious. The unknown is working in his favor at the moment. At the same time, the exhaustive draft process could go wrong for him just as easily as right. If he ends up a late-rounder and cut/practice-squadded in training camp, he's not exactly making out like a bandit.

A lot more can be said for going back to school in football than basketball. But even with that, I'd think it would make sense to go pro here.

villain612

01-15-2015, 04:53 PM

There's risks to staying. There's risks to leaving.

Weighing both sides, I don't blame him for going. In a QB class this weak, there's no way he goes undrafted IMO. Someone is going to take a flyer on him, unless he just has a horrible time at the NFL combine or something.

Chip R

01-15-2015, 05:11 PM

Having 3 QBs that could start for the national champions says a lot about Urban Meyer and his staff's ability to recruit and develop QBs.

Assembly Hall

01-15-2015, 05:11 PM

I know you guys are a tad biased, but to me this QB draft absolutely sucks. I never was impressed with Shameis. Marcus doesn't do anything for me. Who else is out there? The kid from UCLA? The kid from Michigan St.?

traderumor

01-15-2015, 05:19 PM

Wow, he's staying. I am completely shocked, but very proud of that young man for making the hard decision. I really never have favorite players, but he's on that short list right now. Gotta root for someone saying the things he is right now.

villain612

01-15-2015, 05:20 PM

Wow, he's staying. I am completely shocked, but very proud of that young man for making the hard decision.

Whaaaaaat?

Link???

UPDATE: http://ohiostate.247sports.com/Bolt/Cardale-Jones-Returns-To-OSU-34780843

traderumor

01-15-2015, 05:22 PM

Presser is on WBNS10TV.com right now http://www.10tv.com/content/sections/video/breaking.html

HeatherC1212

01-15-2015, 05:26 PM

Good for him. That's probably the best overall decision for him right now but I wouldn't have blamed him if he went pro either. I can't wait to see what the Buckeyes offense looks like this coming season! :D

villain612

01-15-2015, 05:27 PM

Everything about that kid makes you proud to be a Buckeye.

Kilgore_Trout

01-15-2015, 05:42 PM

Cardale Jones is a perfect example as to why society should never give up on "high risk" kids/teens. Sure, not all of them are nearly as gifted athletically, but surround a young man/woman with good, ethical people and they have a chance at a great life.

Hopefully now people will forget about that infamous tweet he sent out as a reactionary teenager.

RedTeamGo!

01-15-2015, 05:45 PM

Next season Cardale is going to destroy college defensive players and chew bubblegum. And he's all out of bubblegum.

Kilgore_Trout

01-15-2015, 05:48 PM

Next season Cardale is going to destroy college defensive players and chew bubblegum. And he's all out of bubblegum.

I've been daydreaming about Cardale running over a Michigan defensive lineman like he did against Bama.

Wait a second... I'm talking about Michigan, here. He can probably take that entire damn line on.

villain612

01-15-2015, 05:50 PM

So, when does the Ohio State Football 2015 thread start? :)

traderumor

01-15-2015, 05:51 PM

dabvu2498

01-15-2015, 06:41 PM

What's the old saying? The most popular person in the team is the back-up quarterback? That'll never be truer than it will be at OSU next year, no matter who the starter is.

Don't forget, Urban has some experience mixing and matching QBs, with Chris Leak and Tebow (not comparing the two situations, just saying Urb can QB-juggle).

Anyway, good for Jones. There have been a couple decent QBs who've decided not to go in the past couple days.

LoganBuck

01-15-2015, 07:03 PM

So, when does the Ohio State Football 2015 thread start? :)

Signing Day

jimbo

01-15-2015, 07:17 PM

Next season Cardale is going to destroy college defensive players and chew bubblegum. And he's all out of bubblegum.

Probably my all-time B movie quote. 😁

jimbo

01-15-2015, 07:25 PM

I'm sticking with my original prediction.

Miller transfers.
Jones goes into spring practice as starter and retains that role throughout 2015.
Barrett is backup in 2015 and gets healthy, takes over in 2016 and possibly 2017.

I think Jones made a very brave and admirable decision to stay at Ohio State. He really seems like a well rounded, quality young man and another year at the college level will do wonders for him. He will be much more prepared for the NFL in another year from now.

It's great to be a Buckeye fan these days.

RedTeamGo!

01-15-2015, 07:27 PM

dougdirt

01-15-2015, 07:54 PM

I think all the people ripping on Cardale for staying in school are disgusting.

A young black man from one of the worst areas of Cleveland has decided to put college first instead of instant gratification and money and people are tearing the young man down.

Sickening. Cardale is a role model for his community. He is showing young kids in East Cleveland and similar neighborhoods all over the country a college degree is something that can never be taken from you and it will follow you wherever you go in life.

The young man should be applauded, not criticized.

Oh please. Get off of your high horse.

What on Earth does him being black and from a crappy area have anything to do with his decision? If he were a rich white kid and made the same decision I'd be saying the same thing: You made the wrong choice.

Cardale could go to the NFL, get drafted, get money today, start an outreach program for his community, go to school in the offseason and get his degree, further be a role model for his community and show people that a college degree is something no one can ever take away from you and it is everything you spoke about, except he's getting paid to play football and is more able to actually reach out to his local community right now.

Instead he is risking money for himself and his family, and in this hypothetical, the community that he could help out with that money, so he can go back to school. Which he could have done anyways, on his own dime, for about 10% of his rookie NFL salary.

If he was told by the NFL that he was better than a 5th round pick, he probably is making a risky decision.

RedTeamGo!

01-15-2015, 08:30 PM

He said in his presser he wants to go back to school and make his family and community proud.

What a moron!!!!

It matters that he comes from a really bad neighborhood and that he is black because many from those neighborhoods think the only way out is by playing professional sports. Cardale just said to those that a degree is another and more realistic way out.

As I said he should be applauded, not criticized.

WrongVerb

01-15-2015, 09:02 PM

Jones made the best decision for him. To criticize or compliment the decision is selfishness on the part of those who have done so. Just accept that he's done it; rightly or wrongly he's done it for him.

jimbo

01-15-2015, 09:07 PM

Oh please. Get off of your high horse.

What on Earth does him being black and from a crappy area have anything to do with his decision? If he were a rich white kid and made the same decision I'd be saying the same thing: You made the wrong choice.

Wow, seems as if you think you know what's in Jones best interest than he and his family does. You should offer up your services as Life Coach/Agent.

Or, maybe get off your high horse.

traderumor

01-15-2015, 09:18 PM

Oh please. Get off of your high horse.

What on Earth does him being black and from a crappy area have anything to do with his decision? If he were a rich white kid and made the same decision I'd be saying the same thing: You made the wrong choice.

Cardale could go to the NFL, get drafted, get money today, start an outreach program for his community, go to school in the offseason and get his degree, further be a role model for his community and show people that a college degree is something no one can ever take away from you and it is everything you spoke about, except he's getting paid to play football and is more able to actually reach out to his local community right now.

Instead he is risking money for himself and his family, and in this hypothetical, the community that he could help out with that money, so he can go back to school. Which he could have done anyways, on his own dime, for about 10% of his rookie NFL salary.

If he was told by the NFL that he was better than a 5th round pick, he probably is making a risky decision.
I don't know if you saw his presser, but he seemed to have a handle on the direction he wants his life to go. You can send him your card though, maybe he'll give you a chance to set him straight.

Assembly Hall

01-15-2015, 09:46 PM

A lot of this conversation has me wondering what Doug's take is on kids coming out of high school and signing with a MLB club as opposed to going to college? Hmmmm.

I have no qualms with Jones' decision. If that is what he wants to do then so be it. He has to sleep with himself at night, so good for him. I wish him nothing but continued success in his journey.

Roy Tucker

01-15-2015, 11:54 PM

The thing is, the NFL draft is a real crap shoot. There is an NFL service that ostensibly tells guys that are thinking about coming where they would fall on the draft. Trouble was, I think the number was 34 of guys that were told they were somewhere 2nd-5th round and put themselves in the draft and didn't get drafted. Unless you're a sure 1st or 2nd round pick, you're taking a very real chance of not getting drafted and losing your scholarship and having to pay your own way like all the rest of us schlubs. It was on ESPNs web site a couple days ago.

cincrazy

01-16-2015, 12:04 AM

Oh please. Get off of your high horse.

What on Earth does him being black and from a crappy area have anything to do with his decision? If he were a rich white kid and made the same decision I'd be saying the same thing: You made the wrong choice.

Cardale could go to the NFL, get drafted, get money today, start an outreach program for his community, go to school in the offseason and get his degree, further be a role model for his community and show people that a college degree is something no one can ever take away from you and it is everything you spoke about, except he's getting paid to play football and is more able to actually reach out to his local community right now.

Instead he is risking money for himself and his family, and in this hypothetical, the community that he could help out with that money, so he can go back to school. Which he could have done anyways, on his own dime, for about 10% of his rookie NFL salary.

If he was told by the NFL that he was better than a 5th round pick, he probably is making a risky decision.

It was HIS decision. So who really cares whether it's best for you or anyone else? He did what's best for him.

Let's talk about the fact that next season, Christian Hackenberg and Connor Cook are the highest rated QBs in the draft. You think Cardale can't beat them out? Give me a break. He's not taking that much of a risk, if any at all. Sam Bradford missed an entire year with shoulder trouble and was STILL the number one pick. I highly doubt Cardale will disappear from the radar even if injured. He's going to get his education, and at the same time guarantee himself even more money with a strong season. Not so sure what all the outrage is about.

nmculbreth

01-16-2015, 12:47 AM

I have to admit I think if I were in Cardale's shoes I'd have gone pro, but I don't think he's crazy for sticking around. He's the only QB that isn't coming off a major injury and will get all the reps in the spring, which probably puts him in good position to be the starting QB to start the season. Obviously there will be a short leash if he struggles but if he does well I'd assume it'll help his draft stock and he should end up getting his degree too.

villain612

01-16-2015, 03:48 AM

Not sure how any one could ever rip a kid for staying in school.

My hat's off to him.

dougdirt

01-16-2015, 04:08 AM

GAC

01-16-2015, 06:30 AM

dougdirt

01-16-2015, 06:48 AM

Will the NFL draft still be there next year?

It's HIS decision... it's HIS life ... he knows what is best for himself (and his fiance/child)... it's a personal decision that may have other variables involved too ... he also said he wasn't ready for that level (NFL) ... respect that. Sounds like a very smart young man to me. I can't criticize anyone who makes the decision to complete his degree from a prestigious institution like Ohio State because, unlike the NFL, where there are no guarantees, that cannot be taken from you.

His stock just rose IMO.

Sure, it's his life, but that doesn't mean he knows what's best for him. People do heroine. It's their life. Is that what is really best for them? Of course not.

If the NFL told him he'd be a 1st-4th round pick, he is taking a big risk by going back to school.

I'm a big proponent of education. I really am. But, there are situations where delaying your education for opportunities you may not get in the future are worth it. This is one of those times. He's been in school for three years. Given that he hasn't been suspended because of academics, I'm guessing he's probably a year or so away from being able to graduate. So, hypothetically speaking, for about 5-10% of his 1st year NFL rookie salary he could go to school and graduate in the offseason. Guys do it all of the time.

By going back he is risking injury that never gets him to the NFL. If he hurts his shoulder and can no longer get zip on the ball, he's not getting this chance again. If he blows up his knee maybe he sticks around for another year at OSU and further risks an injury. What if he has a concussion that he doesn't recover from? A neck injury? There's just so much risk involved in going back to school, assuming the NFL did tell him he could go before the 5th round, that it just doesn't make sense from a "his future" standpoint.

puca

01-16-2015, 07:30 AM

If google wants to hire someone who has only designed one app, a very successful one, but they haven't finished college yet - but they are offering you a boatload of money, you take the job. Everything you could do if you stay in college are things you can go if you go to google. Except have "the college experience".

People get weird when it comes to sports. Probably because they have a rooting interest in sports. In no other scenario can I imagine people saying it was a good idea to turn down a job offer for your dream job so you can do it for free somewhere else and risk not getting a chance to ever get your dream job again.

The difference is that he was not offered a job yet. It would be more like deciding to drop out of school to interview with Google after some independent industry expert predicted that they would offer you a job. Oh and by the way, if you don't get an offer you're not allowed to go back to college.

I think the NFL draft is broken in that respect. Underclassmen take all of the risk when deciding to declare. Seems like players should be able to declare a reserve. Basically if they are not drafted by their 'reserve round' then they don't forfeit their eligibility.

While I'm surprised he didn't declare, I'm never going to bash someone for doing what they think is best. Staying in school allows him to advance toward a degree, spend more time with his girlfriend and child, and possibly develop more as a quarterback. I'm guessing he got some assurances he would get a decent number of snaps next year no matter what.

puca

01-16-2015, 07:43 AM

Sure, it's his life, but that doesn't mean he knows what's best for him. People do heroine. It's their life. Is that what is really best for them? Of course not.

If the NFL told him he'd be a 1st-4th round pick, he is taking a big risk by going back to school.

I'm a big proponent of education. I really am. But, there are situations where delaying your education for opportunities you may not get in the future are worth it. This is one of those times. He's been in school for three years. Given that he hasn't been suspended because of academics, I'm guessing he's probably a year or so away from being able to graduate. So, hypothetically speaking, for about 5-10% of his 1st year NFL rookie salary he could go to school and graduate in the offseason. Guys do it all of the time.

By going back he is risking injury that never gets him to the NFL. If he hurts his shoulder and can no longer get zip on the ball, he's not getting this chance again. If he blows up his knee maybe he sticks around for another year at OSU and further risks an injury. What if he has a concussion that he doesn't recover from? A neck injury? There's just so much risk involved in going back to school, assuming the NFL did tell him he could go before the 5th round, that it just doesn't make sense from a "his future" standpoint.

The NFL doesn't tell players where they will be picked, they can't. Some draft expert made an early projection that he would be drafted before the 5th round. I'm sure the expert would say the same thing about more players than there are picks.

If you want, here is just one cautionary tale about the risk of declaring early:
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_25964438/ex-wyoming-star-brett-smith-out-work-undrafted

dougdirt

01-16-2015, 08:36 AM

The NFL doesn't tell players where they will be picked, they can't. Some draft expert made an early projection that he would be drafted before the 5th round. I'm sure the expert would say the same thing about more players than there are picks.

If you want, here is just one cautionary tale about the risk of declaring early:
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_25964438/ex-wyoming-star-brett-smith-out-work-undrafted

There is a panel made up of NFL scouts that advises college athletes where they will be drafted (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_Draft_Advisory_Board).

Brett Smith sure doesn't sound like he got the advice of the board from that article.

puca

01-16-2015, 09:13 AM

There is a panel made up of NFL scouts that advises college athletes where they will be drafted (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_Draft_Advisory_Board).

Brett Smith sure doesn't sound like he got the advice of the board from that article.

Brett Smith was given a grade of 4-7 by the NFL advisory committee (http://mmqb.si.com/2015/01/07/brett-smith-wyoming-quarterback-nfl-draft/), declared and then wasn't invited to the combine.

What was Cardale's grade from the advisory committee? All I ever heard was some speculation from so-called experts, nothing official.

Hoosier Red

01-16-2015, 09:29 AM

puca

01-16-2015, 09:45 AM

I get where Doug's coming from, and I don't necessarily think anyone should be commended for making a decision to go back to school.
You can't on one hand say, "It's his life, he's doing what's best for him" and on the other hand say, "I commend him for making the decision of which I approve."

I think Cardale's case is interesting in that there's some substantial risks both in going to the NFL now, and in staying in school.

I also don't think anyone should take what is said at a press conference at face value. Everyone who chooses to go back to school will talk about how getting a degree is important to them and how they want to set an example. . ...

That's not to say it's not true. Just that he would say it whether it was truly his main motivation regardless.

I get where doug is coming from as well. I thought it made sense for him to declare, but I certainly don't feel like I'm in any position to say his decision was wrong. Only Cardale and his family are privy to all of the factors that went into that decision. Granted, if Cardale was drafted in the top 4-5 rounds he would have received a decent chunk of money, money that may or may not be available a year from now, but don't forget that was still a substantial 'if'.

Just like he shouldn't be commended from going back to school, he should be lambasted for the choice either.

bucksfan2

01-16-2015, 09:49 AM

@ dougdirt http://mmqb.si.com/2015/01/07/brett-smith-wyoming-quarterback-nfl-draft/

Sea Ray

01-16-2015, 10:23 AM

Having 3 QBs that could start for the national champions says a lot about Urban Meyer and his staff's ability to recruit and develop QBs.

It does but it all starts with having a system where you can hand the ball off to your RB and have him gain about 9 yds a carry

Todd Gack

01-16-2015, 10:37 AM

Todd Gack

01-16-2015, 10:39 AM

It does but it all starts with having a system where you can hand the ball off to your RB and have him gain about 9 yds a carry

This year has pretty much proved that even Andy Dalton would succeed in Meyer's system. Playing QB for Urban is great for college QB's.

I'm not so sure any of these guys become very successful in the NFL.

gonelong

01-16-2015, 11:14 AM

In cases where the college guys is going to be a 1st, or at worst, a 2nd rounder, I would advise them to leave every time.

If I was in Cardale's shoes, I would have made the same decision. Those (media) projecting him as a 2nd/3rd/4th rounder have no skin in the game and that kind of talk is cheap. The NFL decision makers are not hyping Cardale, it's the media, who will then spend the next few months chipping away at that hype. The NFL, as a whole, plays things pretty close to the vest and stepping out on a limb for a guy like Cardale is not the obvious play for most franchises.

Imagine him being drafted in the 3rd/4th round and then not making an NFL roster ... yikes. He would be unlikely to be getting his degree anytime soon.

I think there is a very good possibility that Cardale is tOSU's starting QB next year which gives him a change to greatly improve his potential draft position and get him a step closer to his degree. At worst, he is the backup and spends another year in school. I really don't see the downside to that. IMO, the NFL is not going to value him much, if any differently than they do today.

GL

traderumor

01-16-2015, 11:17 AM

I find it funny that this guy wants to be a financial planner and he basically turned down a possible 7 figure salary for a few years.

The guy is a RS Sophomore. If he's as serious about education as we think, I would believe he'd already have his degree, or close to it, take the money in the NFL. Spend 5 years flaming out the league making some nice dough, saving that money as some type of investment, and then doing his little financial planner thing.So, you think he should darn near have his degree in 2-1/2 years as a student athlete? A red-shirt sophomore is about midway through his junior year. I wasn't aware he was a potential Rhodes Scholar in addition to his QB skills.

Todd Gack

01-16-2015, 11:29 AM

So, you think he should darn near have his degree in 2-1/2 years as a student athlete? A red-shirt sophomore is about midway through his junior year. I wasn't aware he was a potential Rhodes Scholar in addition to his QB skills.

Most of those guys can graduate in 3 years with summer classes. Even I could've done that had I had enough money. There have been plenty of cases where kids graduated with a Masters in 4 years.

Slyder

01-16-2015, 11:32 AM

There is a panel made up of NFL scouts that advises college athletes where they will be drafted (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_Draft_Advisory_Board).

Brett Smith sure doesn't sound like he got the advice of the board from that article.

I heard on the radio that last year this board told 20 some prospects that they'd probably be drafted anywhere from rounds 2 through 5 only to go completely undrafted.

villain612

01-16-2015, 11:33 AM

I would've understood had he left but not sure you can be too up in arms about it. He's started 3 games. There's more to the NFL jump than just having raw physical talent. Six weeks ago, nobody knew who this kid was and now he's ready for the pros? There's mental and emotional maturity that comes along with jumping to the NFL. Sure there's risks in staying. There's risks in leaving too. There's risks in life. Should Joey Bosa, who would be a top 5 this year, sit out next season because he's risking too much by playing? You can't live like that.

Maybe Cardale wants to earn the starting QB spot, put up a solid year, then be a surefire 1st round pick next year.

I would've liked to have seen the outcry when Peyton Manning decided to come back for his senior season when he was already a top 5 pick. For some of us, it can be refreshing to see people not jump for instant gratification for a change.

traderumor

01-16-2015, 11:35 AM

Most of those guys can graduate in 3 years with summer classes. Even I could've done that had I had enough money. There have been plenty of cases where kids graduated with a Masters in 4 years.Is that right? I must be a slow earner, took me a full four years with a part-time job, a wife, and children. Where does one obtain information regarding the length of time which it takes student-athletes to graduate? I thought schools had problems with getting student athletes graduated, and now you're telling me that "most of these guys" are not only graduating, but doing it in 3 years. Why is UNC committing academic fraud if this is so?

bucksfan2

01-16-2015, 12:08 PM

I find it funny that this guy wants to be a financial planner and he basically turned down a possible 7 figure salary for a few years.

The guy is a RS Sophomore. If he's as serious about education as we think, I would believe he'd already have his degree, or close to it, take the money in the NFL. Spend 5 years flaming out the league making some nice dough, saving that money as some type of investment, and then doing his little financial planner thing.

Many people leave good paying jobs to go back to school in the pursuit of a better paying job.

Cardale is betting on himself, he is betting that if he goes back to school his stock will get higher. Getting drafted in the 4th round is nice, getting drafted in the 1st is life changing.

puca

01-16-2015, 12:20 PM

I find it funny that this guy wants to be a financial planner and he basically turned down a possible 7 figure salary for a few years.

The guy is a RS Sophomore. If he's as serious about education as we think, I would believe he'd already have his degree, or close to it, take the money in the NFL. Spend 5 years flaming out the league making some nice dough, saving that money as some type of investment, and then doing his little financial planner thing.

Except for the fact that he wasn't offered money to play in the NFL. What he was offered was a chance to see if anyone would offer him money if he forfeited his college eligibility. There is no equivalent in the business world because once you declare for the NFL draft there is no going back.

The assumption that he should be close to a degree after 2 1/2 years is ludicrous. The only way that happens if he entered college with credits and took the absolute maximum coarse load during the football season.

traderumor

01-16-2015, 01:20 PM

Another thought: Cardale just demonstrated that the now infamous tweet was something that is no longer representative of his values. He went from mocking school to now valuing school. Pay attention, kids, here is a good example of maturing.

dougdirt

01-16-2015, 01:31 PM

I would've liked to have seen the outcry when Peyton Manning decided to come back for his senior season when he was already a top 5 pick. For some of us, it can be refreshing to see people not jump for instant gratification for a change.

That doesn't mean it's a smart decision, though.

traderumor

01-16-2015, 01:44 PM

That doesn't mean it's a smart decision, though.As if your position demonstrated "smart?" I think Cardale has communicated in several different ways the ludicrousness of it all, that benchwarmer to NFL QB is probably not what he is ready for. Guess he and those who agree with him are dumb.

puca

01-16-2015, 02:00 PM

That doesn't mean it's a smart decision, though.

And if he declared and was not drafted, then what?

If someone told you that you might earn a million dollars if you renounced your citizenship and moved to Japan, would you do it? Would you want guarantees?

dougdirt

01-16-2015, 02:05 PM

And if he declared and was not drafted, then what?

If someone told you that you might earn a million dollars if you renounced your citizenship and moved to Japan, would you do it? Would you want guarantees?

If my lifelong dream were to live in Japan and the opportunity may never be available to me again and experts were telling me that I would, yeah, I probably would. There are no guarantees in anything.

dougdirt

01-16-2015, 02:06 PM

As if your position demonstrated "smart?" I think Cardale has communicated in several different ways the ludicrousness of it all, that benchwarmer to NFL QB is probably not what he is ready for. Guess he and those who agree with him are dumb.

Smart people can make dumb decisions. It doesn't make them dumb, it makes the decision dumb. Don't confuse the two things.

traderumor

01-16-2015, 02:12 PM

If my lifelong dream were to live in Japan and the opportunity may never be available to me again and experts were telling me that I would, yeah, I probably would. There are no guarantees in anything.Are these the same experts consulting the undrafted guys folks are referring to in earlier posts? What if his lifelong dream also includes getting a college degree, and knowing himself better than you do, he knows that he needs to do that now or he won't do it?

This is such silliness. People do not put this much thought into their own lives, they just hit and hope, but then try to tell other people they are not smart if they don't do as they would do.

BillDoran

01-16-2015, 02:12 PM

traderumor

01-16-2015, 02:12 PM

Smart people can make dumb decisions. It doesn't make them dumb, it makes the decision dumb. Don't confuse the two things.And you define smart and dumb. I get that now.

RedTeamGo!

01-16-2015, 02:44 PM

If my lifelong dream were to live in Japan and the opportunity may never be available to me again and experts were telling me that I would, yeah, I probably would. There are no guarantees in anything.

27 undergrads in last years draft were told by the "experts" they should be drafted between rounds 4 and 7 and went undrafted. What a smart decision they made.

A more likely scenario of Cardale Jones coming back is he starts for OSU in 2015 and secures a first round draft selection while finishing his degree and being a role model.

If he had gone to the draft this season he maybe would have been drafted in the 3rd round, got an OK bonus, and missed out on another national title run and heisman run.

Here is a fact: Cardale Jones knows more about what his goals are and how he wants to get there than some random dude that has never been in anything resembling his situation.

Brutus

01-16-2015, 02:57 PM

I get where Doug's coming from, and I don't necessarily think anyone should be commended for making a decision to go back to school.
You can't on one hand say, "It's his life, he's doing what's best for him" and on the other hand say, "I commend him for making the decision of which I approve."

I think Cardale's case is interesting in that there's some substantial risks both in going to the NFL now, and in staying in school.

I also don't think anyone should take what is said at a press conference at face value. Everyone who chooses to go back to school will talk about how getting a degree is important to them and how they want to set an example. . ...

That's not to say it's not true. Just that he would say it whether it was truly his main motivation regardless.

You absolutely can say it's his life, he's doing what's best for him if he's doing what is going to make him happiest.

Not everyone is making choices in their lives based on what will provide the most currency. Some people are more happy about the things that life provides beyond just money. I chased money once in my life and it took me away from things that were putting a smile on my face every day. I promise it was not the "best" decision I could have made in retrospect.

If Cardale is willing to take the risk in order to achieve his greater reward, then it IS the best decision.

RedTeamGo!

01-16-2015, 02:57 PM

Here is another potential reason NFL scouts would tell players they will be drafted in rounds 4-7 - to add more fish to the pond to have more to choose from.

dougdirt

01-16-2015, 03:22 PM

27 undergrads in last years draft were told by the "experts" they should be drafted between rounds 4 and 7 and went undrafted. What a smart decision they made.

A more likely scenario of Cardale Jones coming back is he starts for OSU in 2015 and secures a first round draft selection while finishing his degree and being a role model.

If he had gone to the draft this season he maybe would have been drafted in the 3rd round, got an OK bonus, and missed out on another national title run and heisman run.

Here is a fact: Cardale Jones knows more about what his goals are and how he wants to get there than some random dude that has never been in anything resembling his situation.

I said from the beginning, if he was told he was projected by the advisory board to be picked before the 5th round, he made the wrong decision. If they told him 4-7, then yeah, he should go back to school.

In your scenario, a 3rd round selection is better than risking another year in college.

I don't need to be in his situation to know that he A) wants to play in the NFL and B) graduate college. This isn't a difficult situation to understand. He doesn't have a 47 step plan to take over the world. His plan is to play football in the NFL.

How he wants to get there doesn't make his decision good or bad. The actual decision makes it good or bad. If he wanted to get there by going to a JUCO for 2015 and playing it's a terrible decision even if it's the one he wants to make.

I'm not sure where the idea comes from that because it's his decision that no matter what the decision is, it's his and he made it so it's a good decisions. I just can't wrap my head around that because it just doesn't make sense.

Todd Gack

01-16-2015, 03:26 PM

Except for the fact that he wasn't offered money to play in the NFL. What he was offered was a chance to see if anyone would offer him money if he forfeited his college eligibility. There is no equivalent in the business world because once you declare for the NFL draft there is no going back.

The assumption that he should be close to a degree after 2 1/2 years is ludicrous. The only way that happens if he entered college with credits and took the absolute maximum coarse load during the football season.

What is this argument that "he was never offered money" anyway? Jameis Winston was never offered money. Neither has Mariota. That means nothing. The guy says he wants to be a financial planner and he doesn't even want to invest in himself.

And how can someone not be close to a degree if he's on campus working out with the team? 2 summers and you could almost have another year in. .. another semester at the worst. But then again, maybe he's not as smart as we all think he is with the decision he made.

dougdirt

01-16-2015, 03:27 PM

Are these the same experts consulting the undrafted guys folks are referring to in earlier posts? What if his lifelong dream also includes getting a college degree, and knowing himself better than you do, he knows that he needs to do that now or he won't do it?

This is such silliness. People do not put this much thought into their own lives, they just hit and hope, but then try to tell other people they are not smart if they don't do as they would do.

You can get your degree and play in the NFL. If he knows that he can't get his degree in the offseason, does it really matter if he ever gets his degree then? If it's that important to him, then he will get it.

Maybe you don't put that much thought into your life decisions.

traderumor

01-16-2015, 03:35 PM

You can get your degree and play in the NFL. If he knows that he can't get his degree in the offseason, does it really matter if he ever gets his degree then? If it's that important to him, then he will get it.

Maybe you don't put that much thought into your life decisions.Gee, Doug, I did not know that. I bet he never considered any of that while he was pondering over this decision either. Dang it, that changes everything. If we could only be as smart and forward thinking as you are.

Brutus

01-16-2015, 03:35 PM

I'm not sure where the idea comes from that because it's his decision that no matter what the decision is, it's his and he made it so it's a good decisions. I just can't wrap my head around that because it just doesn't make sense.

You don't get it because you seem to be operating under the condition that everyone should chase the almighty dollar in whatever they do. Not everyone needs more money to have a happy life or consider it a fruitful spot.

People aren't saying it's a good decision because it's his, they're saying it's a good decision because presumably he made it with the idea this is what will make him happiest and any risk of losing out on an NFL opportunity will be surpassed by the reward of finishing his college education and experience. Thus, he's chasing what he most wants at this point in his life, ergo it's a good choice.

Not everyone should be critiqued by whether or not they're making a choice that nets them the most money.

traderumor

01-16-2015, 03:36 PM

You don't get it because you seem to be operating under the condition that everyone should chase the almighty dollar in whatever they do. Not everyone needs more money to have a happy life or consider it a fruitful spot.

People aren't saying it's a good decision because it's his, they're saying it's a good decision because presumably he made it with the idea this is what will make him happiest and any risk of losing out on an NFL opportunity will be surpassed by the reward of finishing his college education and experience. Thus, he's chasing what he most wants at this point in his life, ergo it's a good choice.

Not everyone should be critiqued by whether or not they're making a choice that nets them the most money....or by what the critic would do.

RedTeamGo!

01-16-2015, 03:38 PM

I said from the beginning, if he was told he was projected by the advisory board to be picked before the 5th round, he made the wrong decision. If they told him 4-7, then yeah, he should go back to school.

In your scenario, a 3rd round selection is better than risking another year in college.

I don't need to be in his situation to know that he A) wants to play in the NFL and B) graduate college. This isn't a difficult situation to understand. He doesn't have a 47 step plan to take over the world. His plan is to play football in the NFL.

How he wants to get there doesn't make his decision good or bad. The actual decision makes it good or bad. If he wanted to get there by going to a JUCO for 2015 and playing it's a terrible decision even if it's the one he wants to make.

I'm not sure where the idea comes from that because it's his decision that no matter what the decision is, it's his and he made it so it's a good decisions. I just can't wrap my head around that because it just doesn't make sense.

It's not just that he made the decision so it is a good decision. Within the context it is true, though.

He stated he wants to come back because he doesn't feel ready for the NFL yet and he wants to finish his degree to make his family and community proud.

To me, it is wrong to say he is wrong for thinking that way just because a-hole Mel Kiper said he would be drafted in the 2nd or 3rd round and "experts" that were wrong 27 (TWENTY SEVEN) times last year said otherwise.

Maybe Cardale didn't jump on the ESPN Hype machine and took a step back and realized he needs more time in college, and he can do that while finishing his degree. Crazy, I know.

traderumor

01-16-2015, 03:43 PM

villain612

01-16-2015, 04:03 PM

I said from the beginning, if he was told he was projected by the advisory board to be picked before the 5th round, he made the wrong decision. If they told him 4-7, then yeah, he should go back to school.

I am not sure how you can speak in such certitude on a situation where this is plenty of risk/reward on both sides of the decision.

puca

01-16-2015, 04:04 PM

What is this argument that "he was never offered money" anyway? Jameis Winston was never offered money. Neither has Mariota. That means nothing. The guy says he wants to be a financial planner and he doesn't even want to invest in himself.

And how can someone not be close to a degree if he's on campus working out with the team? 2 summers and you could almost have another year in. .. another semester at the worst. But then again, maybe he's not as smart as we all think he is with the decision he made.

Please. Comparing Winston and Mariota's situation with Jones is laughable. Those two have been guaranteed to be first round picks since before the season started. Jones was an absolute unknown until a month ago. And just who was projecting Jones to be drafted in the first 5 rounds anyhow? I'm certain it wasn't the official NFL advisory committee since I doubt his name was even submitted in time to get a grade. I'm pretty sure it was some conjecture from some talking heads. If he declares and doesn't get drafted he may not have the means to finish college.

I really wonder what school you attended and what you studied that makes you think it is normal to get a degree in 2 1/2 years.

puca

01-16-2015, 04:07 PM

You can get your degree and play in the NFL. If he knows that he can't get his degree in the offseason, does it really matter if he ever gets his degree then? If it's that important to him, then he will get it.

Maybe you don't put that much thought into your life decisions.

If he doesn't get drafted he may not have the means to attend school and support his girlfriend/daughter. It would have been a total roll of the dice.

RedTeamGo!

01-16-2015, 04:11 PM

Please. Comparing Winston and Mariota's situation with Jones is laughable. Those two have been guaranteed to be first round picks since before the season started. Jones was an absolute unknown until a month ago. And just who was projecting Jones to be drafted in the first 5 rounds anyhow? I'm certain it wasn't the official NFL advisory committee since I doubt his name was even submitted in time to get a grade. I'm pretty sure it was some conjecture from some talking heads. If he declares and doesn't get drafted he may not have the means to finish college.

I really wonder what school you attended and what you studied that makes you think it is normal to get a degree in 2 1/2 years.

He is a health/gym teacher

puca

01-16-2015, 04:13 PM

I said from the beginning, if he was told he was projected by the advisory board to be picked before the 5th round, he made the wrong decision. If they told him 4-7, then yeah, he should go back to school.

In your scenario, a 3rd round selection is better than risking another year in college.

I don't need to be in his situation to know that he A) wants to play in the NFL and B) graduate college. This isn't a difficult situation to understand. He doesn't have a 47 step plan to take over the world. His plan is to play football in the NFL.

How he wants to get there doesn't make his decision good or bad. The actual decision makes it good or bad. If he wanted to get there by going to a JUCO for 2015 and playing it's a terrible decision even if it's the one he wants to make.

I'm not sure where the idea comes from that because it's his decision that no matter what the decision is, it's his and he made it so it's a good decisions. I just can't wrap my head around that because it just doesn't make sense.

Where has it been reported that his name was even submitted to the advisory board? I highly doubt it was based on the timing.

Furthermore the advisory board provides the following grades: 1, 2, 3 or 4-7. So 'before the 5th round' would have to be a grade of 1, 2 or 3. They give out more grades 4-7 than can possibly be drafted in those rounds.

Brutus

01-16-2015, 04:30 PM

He definitely didn't submit for the panel... he couldn't have. The advisory process takes a week or two upon submission. He said this morning on Mike & Mike there wasn't enough time to be thorough and weigh out all the pros and cons. However, since there wasn't time, he said he could get a lot more coming back to school than he could from going to the NFL.

Doug, I think you're falsely treating this like the risk is a one way street. If he goes to the NFL, becomes a 4th or 5th round pick and gets cut, he is out with no money and in order to finish school, he'd have to go $20,000 in debt (when he could have finished for free). If he goes back to school and suffers a career-ending injury, yeah he is out the chance to make it in the NFL but he'll have a degree. And what's more? You know Ohio State is one of those places that returning to school and getting a degree, on top of the legendary three-game stretch he just had, where Jones will be set for life if he stays in Columbus. Look at Craig Krenzel... that guy has a radio spot, commercials everywhere, consultant jobs, autograph signings, etc. Jones, by returning, just increased his legendary status tenfold. If the NFL never pans out, he's set in Ohio for life if he keeps his head on straight.

It goes back to what I said earlier, it's not all about money. But even if you are going to stick with the financial argument, it's not all one-way.

Roy Tucker

01-16-2015, 05:10 PM

From the SI article:

But the draft is an inexact science, and the scouts who hand out grades for the CAC are accurate on third-round marks only 52.9% of the time, meaning the 4-7 range is a veritable crapshoot. The inaccuracies can be explained for a variety of reasons. As a scout, you’re judging talent based solely on tape, without the benefit of interviews, in-person workouts or in-depth character evaluations. Plus, there’s no minimum requirement for how much tape a scout must watch.

Unless you're a first or second rounder, you are rolling some dice.

LoganBuck

01-16-2015, 07:21 PM

Doesn't Cardale Jones qualify for draft insurance now?

GAC

01-17-2015, 08:10 AM

Sure, it's his life, but that doesn't mean he knows what's best for him. People do heroine. It's their life. Is that what is really best for them? Of course not.

You're equating his decision to finish his college degree on the same level of someone stupidly making the decision to do heroin? Not even close doug. Sure he knows what's best for him. Who else would? Maybe it's simply coming down to an issue of priorities, and what he feels, at this stage, is more important to him? He's also stated that he's not confident in his abilities, seeing he's only started in three games, at that level yet.

I understand your point that he could always work on finishing his degree in the NFL off-season; but Jones has already addressed that question...

http://www.ohio.com/sports/ridenour/marla-ridenour-to-be-role-model-and-pro-prospect-he-wants-to-be-osu-s-cardale-jones-must-stick-to-academic-commitment-1.558832

Jones could have taken the momentum and run — even with a virtually unprecedented three-game resume — and finished school after he started his NFL career.

“What it really boils down to is going back to school and getting it out of the way before I make a full-time commitment to being a professional athlete,” he said.

That’s totally understandable; once out of the studying habit, it is tough for many to resume.

His family wanted him to stay and get his degree, as did his mentor Tedd Ginn Sr (whose Academy he made the announcement at).

Jones also has said this....

“My education is going to take me 10 times farther than my athletic ability.”

When asked about the long-shot chance he could have been a first-round pick this year, he said: “I thought it all through, but chances are slim. Football has always been a stepping stone for my education. Being a first-round round draft pick means nothing to me without my education.”

Whether one agrees/disagrees with that sentiment, I still respect that. Besides - OSU is paying for his education. Once he leaves, then he has to pay for it, as Brutus also pointed out.

Is he taking a risk/gambling, as far as any success in the NFL? Sure. But what is the level of that risk? It's pretty subjective at this stage IMO. I'm sure there would be some NFL team that would take a chance on him; but at what draft level? I think it would be in the lower rounds, and due to the reasoning Cardale has alluded to (maturity/inexperience) - "I'm not ready for that level".

Injury? That's how he got the starting job to begin with, so I'm sure he's aware of that.

I personally think he will be the #2 QB behind Barrett ... I think Braxton is the odd-man out, possibly changing positions ... but we'll just have to wait and see. Even if he doesn't get to play much this next year he's already gained the attention of NFL scouts by his performance in those three games.

And by that time the Browns will know if Manziel is a bust or not, and we can nab Cardale! :mooner:

MWM

01-17-2015, 01:45 PM

Cardale's dream is likely to "play" in the NFL, not just get drafted. I doubt his decision was about just improving his draft position, but also about making him prepared to be able to actually be competitive in the NFL. What good is it being drafted if you haven't developed enough to be prepared to play at that level. It's awfully hard to develop as a QB when you're sitting down on the depth chart of an NFL roster. If all a team has invested is a 4th or 5th round pick, you're not likely to be given much in the way of a chance to develop slowly. They're going to take a flyer on him and if he hits great, if not, they'd have no problem cutting him loose. Languishing on a bench isn't going to develop his skills, and being a 5th rounder isn't going to lead to a lot of development.

Another year where he actually gets to play will help him develop his skills so he's actually ready to play at the next level. Otherwise, he may be the kid who needed more seasoning, but made the jump too early and never got a chance to develop enough to play at the NFL level. If that happened, he won't have realized his dream and I doubt having a couple million in the bank will be much consolation. There's development that can take place in college that will never take place in the NFL.

He needs more time to develop as a player to be ready for the NFL, irrespective of any conversation around draft position. All these conversations about where someone is drafted is only half the conversation, maybe even less. If someone hasn't developed enough to actually be successful, then coming out early for a little guaranteed money now, is a really bad decision, both financially and from the perspective of achieving a life-long dream.

Redsfaithful

01-17-2015, 07:06 PM

He made a different decision than I would have made, but I really can't imagine bashing him for it. To me, he had two good options, both of which had risks, and he chose what he felt was the better choice. I would have said good for him whatever he decided.

I don't think he's going to hurt for money even if he has a short NFL career. He probably could make a modest living for much of his life in Ohio on appearance fees and autographs. Worst case scenario some car lot or other kind of sales company in Columbus would employ him. That's how it works.

dougdirt

01-17-2015, 10:34 PM

You're equating his decision to finish his college degree on the same level of someone stupidly making the decision to do heroin? Not even close doug. Sure he knows what's best for him. Who else would?

I'm not equating the two, I'm saying that the idea that only the person knows whats best for them is insane and used people who do heroine as an example of people making decisions that AREN'T making the right decision, but they are still making it and using your logic, it's the right one. It's not.

He may not know what's best for him. Most of us don't. We may think we are making the best decision, but someone else may know how to make that decision better. It's why people hire others to do all kinds of things. Do you do your own taxes or hire someone else? Do you invest in the stock market on your own or hire someone else to advise you who does it for a living? Do you work on your own car or take it somewhere and have someone else work on it? Lots of people try to do those things on their own and don't do a good job at them. But hey, it was the right decision because they know whats best for them.

kaldaniels

01-18-2015, 01:51 AM

I think if you threw everything into a risk-assessment machine™ and analyzied the results, staying in school for another year and hoping for first/second round money just may have been the right choice. Going now is the safe route, for sure.

GAC

01-18-2015, 06:16 AM

He may not know what's best for him. Most of us don't. We may think we are making the best decision, but someone else may know how to make that decision better. It's why people hire others to do all kinds of things.

Do you know for a fact that he made this decision on his own, without any outside assistance? From what I've read it does appear he did seek, and receive, advice/counsel from others such as family members and his mentor (Ginn Sr) to begin with. There may have been others too, we don't know. I don't think it was a decision he took lightly, and did desire assistance from others, before he made the decision.

Do you do your own taxes or hire someone else? Do you invest in the stock market on your own or hire someone else to advise you who does it for a living? Do you work on your own car or take it somewhere and have someone else work on it? Lots of people try to do those things on their own and don't do a good job at them. But hey, it was the right decision because they know whats best for them.

Not the same situation IMO doug. There's a huge difference between someone seeking outside advice or assistance on a personal decision, such as a career move... vs.... hiring someone to perform a physical task that one doesn't know how to do in the first place (taxes, work on car, etc, etc). There really is no option in the latter, if one wants the task completed, because you're solely dependent on someone else doing something you're INCAPABLE of doing.

As mentioned earlier... your position is pretty one-sided. You're not simply claiming he's taking a huge risk, but that his decision is wrong and a bone-headed move by not declaring for the NFL draft when there's just as much at risk there too. He could very well end up worsening his position, even from a financial standpoint, overall.

And I think MWM's post pretty much nailed it. It's not about draft position, and the amount of money he may/may not get. Right now, his position in the draft, where he'd go, is somewhat tenuous to say the least. But it's more about putting yourself in possibly a BETTER, more SURE position by developing and improving those skills, getting more experience, so that there is LESS doubt about him being competitive at that level, and getting that opportunity for success.

And in the meantime he finishes his education, and gets a degree that OSU pays for.

I think he made the right decision.

WrongVerb

01-18-2015, 12:25 PM

cincrazy

01-18-2015, 01:48 PM

I'm not equating the two, I'm saying that the idea that only the person knows whats best for them is insane and used people who do heroine as an example of people making decisions that AREN'T making the right decision, but they are still making it and using your logic, it's the right one. It's not.

He may not know what's best for him. Most of us don't. We may think we are making the best decision, but someone else may know how to make that decision better. It's why people hire others to do all kinds of things. Do you do your own taxes or hire someone else? Do you invest in the stock market on your own or hire someone else to advise you who does it for a living? Do you work on your own car or take it somewhere and have someone else work on it? Lots of people try to do those things on their own and don't do a good job at them. But hey, it was the right decision because they know whats best for them.

Ted Ginn Sr., his family and friends, and countless others close to him advised him to return to school. But since none of them agree with Doug, none of them have any idea what's best for the kid. Gotcha.

dougdirt

01-18-2015, 02:23 PM

Ted Ginn Sr., his family and friends, and countless others close to him advised him to return to school. But since none of them agree with Doug, none of them have any idea what's best for the kid. Gotcha.
I'm saying that his friends and family probably aren't qualified to determine the risk/reward of such a scenario. Am I? No, probably not.

But, the quote you are specifically responding to has everything to do with the idea that only you know what's best for you and that it's impossible that someone else knows better. Which is insane to say out loud.

Brutus

01-18-2015, 03:36 PM

I'm saying that his friends and family probably aren't qualified to determine the risk/reward of such a scenario. Am I? No, probably not.

But, the quote you are specifically responding to has everything to do with the idea that only you know what's best for you and that it's impossible that someone else knows better. Which is insane to say out loud.

They're not qualified to assess risk reward? Since they know what the kid's priorities are and also care about the kid, I think they're probably more qualified than anyone. Again, there's more to assess than simple dollars. Even so, a simple Google search can turn up the NFL salary allocation by round/pick and get a good idea of what he'd make if he were on a roster this year and what he'd earn if he were picked higher. It's really not rocket science.

WVRed

01-18-2015, 03:55 PM

dougdirt

01-18-2015, 08:29 PM

They're not qualified to assess risk reward? Since they know what the kid's priorities are and also care about the kid, I think they're probably more qualified than anyone. Again, there's more to assess than simple dollars. Even so, a simple Google search can turn up the NFL salary allocation by round/pick and get a good idea of what he'd make if he were on a roster this year and what he'd earn if he were picked higher. It's really not rocket science.

And what about the risk of injuryby going back to college? Or the risk that he doesn't play a snap and sits behind not one, but two quarterbacks next year? Or even just one? Do they know those numbers? If they do, do they know how to properly weigh those numbers against the money? Against the opportunity they believe he had if he entered? I'm guessing they don't. Which is why I believe they aren't qualified to "be the only ones that know the right decisions".

You're right that there is more to it than just dollars.

RedTeamGo!

01-18-2015, 09:32 PM

And what about the risk of injuryby going back to college? Or the risk that he doesn't play a snap and sits behind not one, but two quarterbacks next year? Or even just one? Do they know those numbers? If they do, do they know how to properly weigh those numbers against the money? Against the opportunity they believe he had if he entered? I'm guessing they don't. Which is why I believe they aren't qualified to "be the only ones that know the right decisions".

It would be shocking if Miller comes back, and Barret's recovery time is 10-12 months and got injured the last week of the season, so he won't participate is spring practice and will not even be given the green light to play until after the season starts. Jones will be the starter next year.

dougdirt

01-18-2015, 09:39 PM

It would be shocking if Miller comes back, and Barret's recovery time is 10-12 months and got injured the last week of the season, so he won't participate is spring practice and will not even be given the green light to play until after the season starts. Jones will be the starter next year.
You're right that there is more to it than just dollars.

I did a quick google search for JT Barrett out 10-12 months and found nothing. Where are you seeing that?

He may not be back by spring practice, but I haven't seen 10-12 months before he's ready to take the field either.

RedTeamGo!

01-18-2015, 10:57 PM

I heard it on the radio. Do not have a link.

villain612

01-18-2015, 11:19 PM

I heard it on the radio. Do not have a link.

Barrett's recovery is a lot less than that.

It's 10 weeks and then rehab starts. So you're looking at him starting rehab in February.

source: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2257667-jt-barrett-injury-updates-on-ohio-state-stars-leg-and-return

Miller is the one looking at a 9-12 month recovery time.

dougdirt

01-18-2015, 11:29 PM

Barrett's recovery is a lot less than that.

It's 10 weeks and then rehab starts. So you're looking at him starting rehab in February.

source: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2257667-jt-barrett-injury-updates-on-ohio-state-stars-leg-and-return

Miller is the one looking at a 9-12 month recovery time.

Thank you. That sounds much more like everything that I had heard.

Redsfaithful

01-19-2015, 12:38 AM

I've never been crazy about Ohio State players in the NFL, especially when it comes to the Bengals, but I was really hoping Cardale would have come out so the Bengals could have lit a tiki torch under Dalton.

Me too, but I don't think they'd have taken him. They seem 100% committed to Dalton. McCarron might be his eventual replacement, sadly.

GAC

01-19-2015, 05:28 AM

I'm saying that his friends and family probably aren't qualified to determine the risk/reward of such a scenario.

Who then is qualified? Whom should Cardale have talked to for advice?

RedTeamGo!

01-19-2015, 09:51 AM

Who then is qualified? Whom should Cardale have talked to for advice?

Doug.

LoganBuck

01-19-2015, 11:23 AM

Ted Ginn Sr. Has coached, mentored, and been a father of NFL players, some have left early some have stayed in school. He knows the right people. In fact Cardale probably has more educated people on this topic, in his life than most.

Roy Tucker

01-19-2015, 12:17 PM

Jones also had to be careful who he talked to and in what capacity. The NCAAF rule book is about a foot thick in this.

It certainly wasn't a no-brainer decision. One other comment I'll make is that he's a young man and still growing up and maturing. The dad speech I gave each of my 3 children when they went to college was "make sure you fully experience and treasure these next 4 years. You only get on chance at doing this. When it's over, it's really over. Once you are out of school, you'll look back at theses days and wonder why you didn't appreciate them more. Use this time to experience life and learning".

traderumor

01-19-2015, 02:24 PM

I'm saying that his friends and family probably aren't qualified to determine the risk/reward of such a scenario. Am I? No, probably not.

But, the quote you are specifically responding to has everything to do with the idea that only you know what's best for you and that it's impossible that someone else knows better. Which is insane to say out loud.How do you know who helped him with this decision? Who are you to say people closest to him, who really know him, are not qualified to help him sort through what is the best move for him? I get you do not want to give up your position, but you are making some ludicrous arguments to support it, in addition to creating a strawman with the "its a good decision because he made it" that you keep on referring to. I'm not sure there is an advisor here since it basically would require prescience to make the best decision. Since no one was offering their prognostication abilities, the poor guy was left only with his ignoramous family and friends. If he only had Nostradomus.

dougdirt

01-19-2015, 03:35 PM

How do you know who helped him with this decision? Who are you to say people closest to him, who really know him, are not qualified to help him sort through what is the best move for him? I get you do not want to give up your position, but you are making some ludicrous arguments to support it, in addition to creating a strawman with the "its a good decision because he made it" that you keep on referring to. I'm not sure there is an advisor here since it basically would require prescience to make the best decision. Since no one was offering their prognostication abilities, the poor guy was left only with his ignoramous family and friends. If he only had Nostradomus.

Because the people best qualified to make this decisions are working in the business of risk assessment of some kind and given his upbringing and how his life played out, his family isn't in that business. His friends? He's 21. His friends aren't in that business. Ted Ginn Sr isn't in that business, but he's probably a solid option to talk to given his history, as Loganbuck noted. He should have talked to agents, err, advisers (and maybe he did, but he didn't specify that he did either, and he's allowed to actually talk to them as advisers as long as he doesn't hire them and they don't do any actual negotiating on his behalf with someone wanting to offer him money).

Brutus

01-19-2015, 03:38 PM

I'm saying that his friends and family probably aren't qualified to determine the risk/reward of such a scenario. Am I? No, probably not.

But, the quote you are specifically responding to has everything to do with the idea that only you know what's best for you and that it's impossible that someone else knows better. Which is insane to say out loud.

It's not really insane, because here you're talking about having information, yet you're insisting that other people know what's best for an individual when they do not have all the information about that person they need to have to assess. It's hard to tell another person what's best for them when they have no knowledge of that person's values, goals, dreams, priorities, etc. The point that's not sinking in is that money is not the only factor in these decisions for some people, nor should it be.

I'm all for the idea of risk analysis, but frankly you seem to be taking a strong stance he made a "bad" decision without knowing the risk/reward analysis either.

dougdirt

01-19-2015, 03:50 PM

It's not really insane, because here you're talking about having information, yet you're insisting that other people know what's best for an individual when they do not have all the information about that person they need to have to assess. It's hard to tell another person what's best for them when they have no knowledge of that person's values, goals, dreams, priorities, etc. The point that's not sinking in is that money is not the only factor in these decisions for some people, nor should it be.

I'm all for the idea of risk analysis, but frankly you seem to be taking a strong stance he made a "bad" decision without knowing the risk/reward analysis either.

Sit down and talk with Cardale Jones about all of those things and then you will know all of those things. But the people I say would offer better advise would also be able to have a much stronger understanding of the risk assessment than the people Jones publicly said he consulted on the matter.

bucksfan2

01-19-2015, 04:33 PM

Sit down and talk with Cardale Jones about all of those things and then you will know all of those things. But the people I say would offer better advise would also be able to have a much stronger understanding of the risk assessment than the people Jones publicly said he consulted on the matter.

Who are these risk assessment people you mention?

dougdirt

01-19-2015, 04:35 PM

Who are these risk assessment people you mention?

I'd start with agents, err, advisers and financial risk analysts. Not one or the other, but both.

traderumor

01-19-2015, 04:46 PM

I'd start with agents, err, advisers and financial risk analysts. Not one or the other, but both.He had two days, and as Brutus already pointed out, this only considers the financial impact of a decision, and that would be limited. You'd probably get an equally qualified answer by seeing who wins at a game of Life, college Cardale or declare for the NFL Cardale. The what-ifs of this decision are beyond our finite minds, so the person making the decision is left with "what do I want to do?" and then accepts HIS decision and moves on accordingly, pressing on to make the most of his life with that decision behind him. Then, when it doesn't work out, there will plenty of people there to tell him "I told you so," even though this is a decision that does not present a clear right or wrong answer...which is why the discussion continues. Some want to pretend like there is a right answer here, but there really is not, at least on the level of finite minds.

For the record, those advisers aren't really going to be much help...too many variables, too many unknown parts to give anything other than a highly qualified, disclaimed opinion. He'd be just as well to flip a coin as to pay these type of people to tell him nothing.

dougdirt

01-19-2015, 04:58 PM

He had two days, and as Brutus already pointed out, this only considers the financial impact of a decision, and that would be limited. You'd probably get an equally qualified answer by seeing who wins at a game of Life, college Cardale or declare for the NFL Cardale. The what-ifs of this decision are beyond our finite minds, so the person making the decision is left with "what do I want to do?" and then accepts HIS decision and moves on accordingly, pressing on to make the most of his life with that decision behind him. Then, when it doesn't work out, there will plenty of people there to tell him "I told you so," even though this is a decision that does not present a clear right or wrong answer...which is why the discussion continues. Some want to pretend like there is a right answer here, but there really is not, at least on the level of finite minds.

For the record, those advisers aren't really going to be much help...too many variables, too many unknown parts to give anything other than a highly qualified, disclaimed opinion. He'd be just as well to flip a coin as to pay these type of people to tell him nothing.

No, it doesn't only consider the financial impact of the decision. But it does include financial ramifications and those should certainly be weighed by someone qualified to weigh them, which his friends and family, well, aren't.

While there are a ton of variables, those advisers are going to be able to offer more sound advice than the people he said he talked to about it. They can actually present him with real data based on different scenarios based on his beliefs in what he wants.

Roy Tucker

01-19-2015, 05:30 PM

I'd start with agents, err, advisers and financial risk analysts. Not one or the other, but both.

And they all have their own agendas that color the advice they give. And their goals may not be completely congruent with Cardale's. It's treacherous waters to navigate and he didn't have much time to decide.

Like I said earlier, I dont think this was a no-brainer decision.

bucksfan2

01-19-2015, 05:33 PM

No, it doesn't only consider the financial impact of the decision. But it does include financial ramifications and those should certainly be weighed by someone qualified to weigh them, which his friends and family, well, aren't.

While there are a ton of variables, those advisers are going to be able to offer more sound advice than the people he said he talked to about it. They can actually present him with real data based on different scenarios based on his beliefs in what he wants.

I don't exactly buy how agents are the best risk analysts in this situation. I think coaches as well as family and friends can give the player a good opinion of what to do and what not to do. We don't know what Cardale's goals are, we don't know what he values and what he does not. Cardale made the point that a college degree will be more valuable over his lifetime than his talents. That is some pretty heady thinking for a guy that age. Maybe his priorities are different than yours, maybe he doesn't value the almighty dollar in the same regard that you do. I don't know how much time you have ever spent in Columbus, but Cardale Jones could never play another snap and still be a celebrity in that town.

From my perspective he has his head on pretty straight for a kid that age. He may not have made what you consider the best "green" decision, but he made the decision that he was happy with.

dougdirt

01-19-2015, 05:42 PM

I don't exactly buy how agents are the best risk analysts in this situation. I think coaches as well as family and friends can give the player a good opinion of what to do and what not to do. We don't know what Cardale's goals are, we don't know what he values and what he does not. Cardale made the point that a college degree will be more valuable over his lifetime than his talents. That is some pretty heady thinking for a guy that age. Maybe his priorities are different than yours, maybe he doesn't value the almighty dollar in the same regard that you do. I don't know how much time you have ever spent in Columbus, but Cardale Jones could never play another snap and still be a celebrity in that town.

From my perspective he has his head on pretty straight for a kid that age. He may not have made what you consider the best "green" decision, but he made the decision that he was happy with.

Talk to several agents. They won't all provide the same outcome. His coaches want him to come back. His friends and family? No clue. Some may want him to go because he will get the money and then they can get theirs. Some may want him to go back to school to complete his degree. We don't know.

I keep hearing about how much he wanted his degree and that it's so valuable to him. That completely ignores that he could get one in the offseason like so many other players do. And his degree isn't likely to be more valuable to him over the course of his lifetime than his football career, at least in terms of the opportunities it will open up for him to do just about everything he's talk about (making a difference in the community being a big one - the community is going to listen to a pro athlete over a no-name financial adviser every day of the week, even if they perhaps shouldn't).

He can be happy with his decision. I still don't think he talked to the right people, assuming that he publicly stated the people that he did indeed talk to, in order to properly evaluate the decision. A lack of time or not, there was time to talk to people beyond those that he said he did in his press conference. I think his lack of talking to others was a disservice to himself.

puca

01-19-2015, 06:56 PM

Talk to several agents. They won't all provide the same outcome. His coaches want him to come back. His friends and family? No clue. Some may want him to go because he will get the money and then they can get theirs. Some may want him to go back to school to complete his degree. We don't know.

I keep hearing about how much he wanted his degree and that it's so valuable to him. That completely ignores that he could get one in the offseason like so many other players do. And his degree isn't likely to be more valuable to him over the course of his lifetime than his football career, at least in terms of the opportunities it will open up for him to do just about everything he's talk about (making a difference in the community being a big one - the community is going to listen to a pro athlete over a no-name financial adviser every day of the week, even if they perhaps shouldn't).

He can be happy with his decision. I still don't think he talked to the right people, assuming that he publicly stated the people that he did indeed talk to, in order to properly evaluate the decision. A lack of time or not, there was time to talk to people beyond those that he said he did in his press conference. I think his lack of talking to others was a disservice to himself.

You have no idea who he did or did not talk to, or who those he publicly mentioned as his advisors may have talked with. Ted Ginn Sr. certainly knows agents and undoubtedly knows people involved in the NFL front offices. It would be foolish to assume that a few phone calls were not made.

You are the one claiming this was a bad decision. Who did you consult? Do you have experts in your back pocket? Did you sit down with Cardale and his family? The risk of declaring was clear-cut, the potential reward was not. What happens once the after-glow of the improbable playoff run wore off and people started wondering exactly why he was 3rd on Ohio State depth chart to start the year? I mean Kenny Guiton looked awful good when he ran the Ohio State offense, but that didn't impress any NFL scouts. If he declared and was not drafted, finishing school on his own dime may not have been an option, so under some scenarios his degree was certainly at risk.

dougdirt

01-19-2015, 07:04 PM

You have no idea who he did or did not talk to, or who those he publicly mentioned as his advisors may have talked with. Ted Ginn Sr. certainly knows agents and undoubtedly knows people involved in the NFL front offices. It would be foolish to assume that a few phone calls were not made.

You are the one claiming this was a bad decision. Who did you consult? Do you have experts in your back pocket? Did you sit down with Cardale and his family? The risk of declaring was clear-cut, the potential reward was not. What happens once the after-glow of the improbable playoff run wore off and people started wondering exactly why he was 3rd on Ohio State depth chart to start the year? I mean Kenny Guiton looked awful good when he ran the Ohio State offense, but that didn't impress any NFL scouts. If he declared and was not drafted, finishing school on his own dime may not have been an option, so under some scenarios his degree was certainly at risk.

A few points: First, finishing school on his own dime is an option. You can get student loans like nearly everyone in America that goes to college does.

You're right that I don't know exactly who he talked with. I just know that he mentioned publicly that he talked with his friends and family to make his decision. If he spoke with others, why wouldn't he mention them, even if he didn't mention them by name?

Cardale Jones isn't Kenny Guiton. Guiton doesn't have the combo of size/speed and Guiton doesn't have that kind of arm. He had more experience in college, but that's about where the comparison ends between those two.

Maybe I'm crazy, but apparently that makes a lot of others crazy too, because I can't see a scenario where he goes undrafted this year short of him messing up his elbow/shoulder before the draft. You just can't teach the things he brings to the table, guys either have them or they don't. He's got them. Someone would have taken a chance on him.

His risk of a degree, assuming he's actually gone to his classes for three years and passed them, is small. He's got about a year left to get a degree by most standards, right? People keep acting like he's taken five classes and would have to go to school for five more years to get his degree.

Brutus

01-19-2015, 08:21 PM

dougdirt

01-20-2015, 02:42 AM

People already did sit down and talk to him about those things, and the decision they reached was it was best for him to return.

I understand that. I'm saying he sat down and talked with people who don't seem qualified to weigh the risk properly based on who he says he actually talked with.

puca

01-20-2015, 07:03 AM

I understand that. I'm saying he sat down and talked with people who don't seem qualified to weigh the risk properly based on who he says he actually talked with.

I would consider Ted Ginn Sr. is a football insider. He certainly knows agents, NFL scouts and probably knows plenty of people in front office positions in the NFL. Why do you assume he did not make some phone calls on Cardale's behalf? I would shocked if he did not.

Bottom line is you don't know everyone that was consulted in the process of making the decision, so your argument is basically that his decision was dumb because it is not what you think he should have done. I'm still waiting to see the list of experts you talked with.

puca

01-20-2015, 07:25 AM

A few points: First, finishing school on his own dime is an option. You can get student loans like nearly everyone in America that goes to college does.

Sure, going deep into debt is an option. However not many students would do it if they had a choice.

You're right that I don't know exactly who he talked with. I just know that he mentioned publicly that he talked with his friends and family to make his decision. If he spoke with others, why wouldn't he mention them, even if he didn't mention them by name?

Ted Ginn Sr. is not just a friend, he has plenty of contacts in the world of football.

Cardale Jones isn't Kenny Guiton. Guiton doesn't have the combo of size/speed and Guiton doesn't have that kind of arm. He had more experience in college, but that's about where the comparison ends between those two.

Maybe I'm crazy, but apparently that makes a lot of others crazy too, because I can't see a scenario where he goes undrafted this year short of him messing up his elbow/shoulder before the draft. You just can't teach the things he brings to the table, guys either have them or they don't. He's got them. Someone would have taken a chance on him.

The point is that everyone that has stepped into the starting quarterback role at Ohio State has thrived. You can even paint that with a broader brush and say that everyone that has started at quarterback for Urban Meyer has had collegiate success. Don't you think that casts some doubt on whether Cardale is the real deal?

I think you are right he would have eventually been drafted, but it may not have happened until the later rounds. I have a hard time seeing a scenario that he is kept as a backup quarterback with such limited game time experience. Very possibly he would have been drafted in the later rounds and assigned to a practice squad. While that is still decent money, it is not life changing. If he stays in school and shows that the last 3 games were not a fluke then he jumps up the draft board into the first 3 rounds, possibly into the 1st round. And meanwhile he doesn't have to pay for his classes or housing and he can spend time with his girlfriend and baby daughter.

His risk of a degree, assuming he's actually gone to his classes for three years and passed them, is small. He's got about a year left to get a degree by most standards, right? People keep acting like he's taken five classes and would have to go to school for five more years to get his degree.

He probably has 1-2 years of schooling left. One if he has been progressing at a normal pace. Of course given the fact that he knew he had 5 years to complete his degree then he may have been taking a more relaxed approach.

IslandRed

01-20-2015, 11:14 AM

I understand that. I'm saying he sat down and talked with people who don't seem qualified to weigh the risk properly based on who he says he actually talked with.

I'm not sure anyone on earth was qualified to properly weigh the risks, given the total uncertainty on both sides of the scale.

Over here, you have a "stay in school" scenario where starting at Ohio State and being a Heisman Trophy contender is possible. So is being a backup and having his weaknesses exposed. No one would be shocked either way.

Over there, at the time he had to make his decision, there were no draft projections other than wild guesses. He has some tools, sure. How about NFL-type skills? No one knows what the NFL would have thought of him by the time the pre-draft wringer was through. Anything from future star, high pick, seven-figure bonus to "I don't think this guy can play," late pick or UFA, cab-fare-home-from-training-camp was in play. Don't think the possibility of having the dice come up snake eyes wasn't a factor.

With that much "damned if I know" going around, I suppose I can't blame him for focusing on the thing where he has the most control of the outcome, which is the chance to cement himself as the #1 guy in Columbus during spring practice while the others are not able to fully participate.

GAC

01-21-2015, 06:13 AM

I'm not sure anyone on earth was qualified to properly weigh the risks, given the total uncertainty on both sides of the scale.

Over here, you have a "stay in school" scenario where starting at Ohio State and being a Heisman Trophy contender is possible. So is being a backup and having his weaknesses exposed. No one would be shocked either way.

Over there, at the time he had to make his decision, there were no draft projections other than wild guesses. He has some tools, sure. How about NFL-type skills? No one knows what the NFL would have thought of him by the time the pre-draft wringer was through. Anything from future star, high pick, seven-figure bonus to "I don't think this guy can play," late pick or UFA, cab-fare-home-from-training-camp was in play. Don't think the possibility of having the dice come up snake eyes wasn't a factor.

With that much "damned if I know" going around, I suppose I can't blame him for focusing on the thing where he has the most control of the outcome, which is the chance to cement himself as the #1 guy in Columbus during spring practice while the others are not able to fully participate.

Good post.

The "risks" on returning to school, IMO, are far, far lesser in degree then if he had declared for the draft. That's the bottom-line as I see it.

But this says it all as far as I'm concerned, and I deeply respect this young man's decision. He seems have done a lot of growing up/maturing through this process...

Driving force behind Cardale Jones' decision to stay at Ohio State sleeps through the announcement .... http://www.newsnet5.com/news/local-news/cleveland-metro/driving-force-behind-cardale-jones-decision-to-stay-at-ohio-state-sleeps-through-the-announcement

*BaseClogger*

01-21-2015, 09:58 AM

Doug, IIRC you did not pursue secondary education. Is your own personal experience blurring your stance on this topic?

Brutus

01-21-2015, 01:38 PM

I understand that. I'm saying he sat down and talked with people who don't seem qualified to weigh the risk properly based on who he says he actually talked with.

I don't mean this in a snarky tone, but I don't think you're qualified to assess whether or not the people Jones spoke with were qualified in the type of risk analysis you're speaking about. Perhaps they weren't, but how would you even know? You're guessing.

traderumor

01-21-2015, 01:42 PM

Good post.

The "risks" on returning to school, IMO, are far, far lesser in degree then if he had declared for the draft. That's the bottom-line as I see it.

But this says it all as far as I'm concerned, and I deeply respect this young man's decision. He seems have done a lot of growing up/maturing through this process...

Driving force behind Cardale Jones' decision to stay at Ohio State sleeps through the announcement .... http://www.newsnet5.com/news/local-news/cleveland-metro/driving-force-behind-cardale-jones-decision-to-stay-at-ohio-state-sleeps-through-the-announcementFor the record, that is one cute little baby right there. And some boy will have to meet her dad some day...good luck with that :)

gonelong

01-21-2015, 06:04 PM

2014 Recruiting class wrap-up (http://www.elevenwarriors.com/2014/02/33072/ohio-state-football-recruiting-meet-the-buckeye-football-recruiting-class-of-2014)

Real Nice class Meyer picked-up and lots of possibilities for immediate help as well as a number of high profile Redshirts from last year. The talent infusion really begins this year.

GL

/realized I posted this in the wrong forum

The talent infusion really did take place in 2014.

2014 Class

Sean Nuernberger was 89-89 on extra points and was 13-20 on field goal attempts with a season long 49-yard field goal.
Raekwon McMillan. 30 tackles (30), 6.5 tackles for loss, 2.5 sacks, and an interception (returned it 24 yards for a TD).
Curtis Samuel scored ran for 383 yds and 6 TDs 383 yards. He had 11 receptions and returned 20 kickoffs.
Noah Brown played in 11 games, almost completely in a blocking role. He had 1 catch, and 1 carry. (He may get snaps at TE next year)
Erick Smith had 13 tackles (mostly special teams) and an interception
Jalyn Holmes had 11 tackles/one tackle for loss
Damon Webb had 3tackles and a forced fumble
Dante Booker seven tackles on the season.
Jamarco Jones got some Playing Time on the OL
Marcelys Jones also got some Playing Time on the OL

Injured:

Kyle Berger: torn ACL & broken kneecap
Marshon Lattimore: torn ACL
Johnnie Dixon: tendonitis-related issues in both of his knees
Darius Slade: broken toe
Brady Taylor: torn labrum
Parris Campbell, shoulder surgery

Redshirts

Sam Hubbard
Demetrius Knox
Stephen Collier
Malik Hooker
Terry McLaurin
Kyle Trout

The 2014 guys will see more significant action on the field in 2015 and the 2015 recruiting class appears to be a top 10 class as well. I think the Bucks get a little deeper in 2015. The current recruiting class is ranked 7th, with tOSU still in on some big names.

The 2013 class included, Eli Apple, JT Barrett, Vonn Bell, Joey Bosa, Ezekiel Elliot, Darron Lee, Jalin Marshall, Billy Price, Corey Smith, and Dontre Wilson ... among others. 2013 Class (http://www.elevenwarriors.com/2013/02/19278/meet-the-ohio-state-football-recruiting-class-of-2013)

GL

dougdirt

01-22-2015, 12:19 AM

Doug, IIRC you did not pursue secondary education. Is your own personal experience blurring your stance on this topic?

No, it's not. I'm a huge believer in education.

villain612

01-22-2015, 04:09 AM

The 2013 class included, Eli Apple, JT Barrett, Vonn Bell, Joey Bosa, Ezekiel Elliot, Darron Lee, Jalin Marshall, Billy Price, Corey Smith, and Dontre Wilson ... among others. 2013 Class (http://www.elevenwarriors.com/2013/02/19278/meet-the-ohio-state-football-recruiting-class-of-2013)

GL

That 2013 class will go down as one of the best Buckeye classes of all time.

Take it to the bank.

gonelong

01-22-2015, 09:39 AM

That 2013 class will go down as one of the best Buckeye classes of all time.

Take it to the bank.

Agreed.

I believe Eli Apple, Vonn Bell, Joey Bosa, Ezekiel Elliot, Darron Lee, and Billy Price will all play on Sunday in the future and there are a number of other guys in the class that can get there as well.

GL

bucksfan2

01-22-2015, 10:19 AM

Agreed.

I believe Eli Apple, Vonn Bell, Joey Bosa, Ezekiel Elliot, Darron Lee, and Billy Price will all play on Sunday in the future and there are a number of other guys in the class that can get there as well.

GL

I will throw Jalin Marshall and maybe Wilson in there as well. I think Wilson could be the long desired Percy Harvin clone and Wilson could find himself in a similar role in the pros. Not a star, but if Philly Brown can find a spot in the pros, Wilson can.

I know there was an article about Meyer not wanting to redshirt players, but with the exception of Bosa none of the freshman were ready to play at the start of their freshman year. Elliot and Bell ended up being solid contributors at the end of their FR year. But that Redshirt year for Marshal, Price, Apple, and Lee were immensely helpful. They weren't on the field when they really didn't know what they were doing, see Dontre Wilson circa 2013.

gonelong

02-12-2015, 01:13 PM

I thought these were interesting, even if some of them are a little cheesy such as the Big 10 Championships and Playoff records.

GL

NCAA, Big Ten Conference, bowl game and school records tumble in 2014 (http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/021215aaa.html)

Records Set or Tied in 2014 by Ohio State
NCAA, Big Ten and Ohio State
*Records Tied

Team (26)
NCAA Records
14 - *Wins, season
15 - *Games played, season

Big Ten Conference Records
24 - Consecutive Big Ten wins
45 - First downs, game
1,099 - Total offensive plays, season
7,674 - Total offensive yards, season
386 - First downs, season
4 - Turnovers forced in Big Ten championship game
3 - Interceptions in Big Ten championship game

Program Records
14 - *Wins, season
15 - Games played, season
24 - Consecutive Big Ten wins
4 - Consecutive games 50-plus points
4 - *Consecutive games 500-or-more yards total offense
260 - Passes completed, season
3,707 - Passing yards, season
42 - Passing touchdowns, season
1,099 - Total offensive plays, season
7,674 - Total offensive yards, season
672 - Points scored, season
90 - Touchdowns, season
386 - First downs, season
101 - Total offensive attempts, game (vs. Cincinnati)
45 - First downs, game (vs. Cincinnati)
28 - First downs in bowl game (vs. Oregon)

Misc.
0 - Points allowed in FBS/Power Five championship game

Individual (48)
Listed Alphabetically

QB J.T. Barrett
Big Ten
45 - Touchdowns responsible for, season
7 - Freshman of the week awards, season

Ohio State
45 - Touchdowns responsible for, season
34 - Touchdown passes, season
3,772 - Total yards, season
64.6 - Career completion pct.
6 - Touchdown passes, game (vs. Kent State)
6 - Touchdowns responsible for, game (vs. Kent State)
236.2 - Career passing yards per game
12 - Consecutive passes completed, season
169.8 - Passing efficiency, season
11 - *Most wins by first-year starting QB
314.3 - Average total offensive yards, season
314.3 - Average total offensive yards, career
11 - Games gaining 200 or more yards total offense, season
7 - Games gaining 300 or more yards total offense, season
1 - Games gaining 400 or more yards total offense, season
189 - Rushing yards by an Ohio State QB, game
86 - Longest rush by an Ohio State QB

DT Michael Bennett
2 - Fumbles forced in Big Ten championship game
4 - *TFLs in Big Ten championship game

DE Joey Bosa
1 - Fumble return TD in Big Ten championship game

RB Ezekiel Elliott
Big Ten
81 - Longest rush in Big Ten championship game
220 - Rushing yards in Big Ten championship game

Ohio State
3 - 200-yard rushing games, season
4 - TDs in a bowl game (vs. Oregon)
246 - Rushing yards in a bowl game (vs. Oregon)
85 - Longest rush in a bowl game (vs. Alabama)

CB Doran Grant
2 - Interceptions in Big Ten championship game

P Cameron Johnston
Big Ten
53.0 - Punt average in Big Ten championship game
73 - Longest punt in Big Ten championship game

QB Cardale Jones
Big Ten
3 - *TD passes in Big Ten championship game
255.8 - QB rating in Big Ten championship game
44 - Longest TD pass in Big Ten championship game

Ohio State
3 - Post-season wins as starting QB

K Sean Nuernberger
Big Ten
128 - Kicking points, season
89 - Extra points made, season
49 - Most PATs Big Ten games only, season

Ohio State
128 - Kicking points, season
89 - Extra points made, season
89 - Extra points attempted, season
89 - Consecutive extra points, season
1.000 - *Extra point percentage, season
1.000 - *Extra point percentage, career
6 - Extra points in bowl game (vs. Oregon)

WR Devin Smith
Big Ten
137 - Receiving yards in Big Ten championship game
3 - *Receiving TDs in Big Ten championship game

Ohio State
28.2 - Average yards per catch, season