Future Payroll

[Gapper]

The Brewers will have a record payroll in 2014, COO Rick Schlesinger tells MLB.com's Adam McCalvy. "No matter how you measure it, and there are a lot of different ways to measure it, I can tell you that it's going to be north of $100 million," Schlesinger said. The COO went on to add:

"The way I look at it, you look at the growth of the industry in general, and how we're doing in revenues locally, and it makes sense. ... The fans over the year have supported us, the national television dollars are increasing, the health of the game from a revenue perspective has never been greater, so it's only natural and fitting that we use those monies to invest in our product." - COO Rick Schlesinger, Milwaukee Brewers

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/02/brewers-notes-payroll-lara-madson-bench.html#disqus_thread

I hope they are the only NL Central team feeling this way. I know the Reds have upped spending over the last 5 years, but I hope we have at least the same marginal increases in payroll.

[bellhead]

They will their current TV Deal is up in a 2015 or 16 which pays them about $30 million total they are looking at a new deal in the $80 million range..

[PeteRoseDay]

Watch out for the Cardinals as well. They currently are 2nd to last in annual profit for their TV deal. It is up in 2017 and then wow. It almost seems unfair how much money they will be adding to their never-ending list of prospects and depth. Not to mention they have a top 3 team in baseball right now...

I just don't feel good about the Reds' future.

[Assembly Hall]

Watch out for the Cardinals as well. They currently are 2nd to last in annual profit for their TV deal. It is up in 2017 and then wow. It almost seems unfair how much money they will be adding to their never-ending list of prospects and depth. Not to mention they have a top 3 team in baseball right now...

I just don't feel good about the Reds' future.


Well we just need to use Oakland's recipe.

[Rando]

This year the Reds have shown that money is a problem. I'm not optimistic about signing our rotation long term.

[Reds&BuckeyeGuy]

Watch out for the Cardinals as well. They currently are 2nd to last in annual profit for their TV deal. It is up in 2017 and then wow. It almost seems unfair how much money they will be adding to their never-ending list of prospects and depth. Not to mention they have a top 3 team in baseball right now...

I just don't feel good about the Reds' future.

My goodness that contract will be crazy, for sure.. Wow, that is a bit depressing to hear because you know they already know how to win with league average money...

[Rando]

My goodness that contract will be crazy, for sure.. Wow, that is a bit depressing to hear because you know they already know how to win with league average money...

I'm hoping by 2017 there are better luxury taxes as well as easier ways to watch games via online which will bring in tons of extra revenue.


None of that will happen because it's the MLB though

[oregonred]

The Reds have as good or better regional market than St Louis for TV rights. There just aren't many towns of significance in their viewing area even if you extend down into Arkansas and Memphis into Western Indiana/KY and a slice of Iowa. And certainly much better than Milwaukee and Pittsburgh. Milwaukee needs to add payroll fast or lose the halo of drawing 2.5+M fans with crappy teams.

Once the bloom falls off it is hard to get it back (Cleveland, Balt, Seattle, etc.)

[PeteRoseDay]

The Reds have as good or better regional market than St Louis for TV rights. There just aren't many towns of significance in their viewing area even if you extend down into Arkansas and Memphis into Western Indiana/KY and a slice of Iowa. And certainly much better than Milwaukee and Pittsburgh. Milwaukee needs to add payroll fast or lose the halo of drawing 2.5+M fans with crappy teams.

Once the bloom falls off it is hard to get it back (Cleveland, Balt, Seattle, etc.)

Not even close, but I want to dream too.

[villain612]

This year the Reds have shown that money is a problem. I'm not optimistic about signing our rotation long term.

I'd say that we don't necessarily WANT to sign everyone longterm. I'd say Bailey and Latos but beyond that, you need to find good, young pitching that you can control cheaply for a multitude of years. Granted, that's not easy...but when you have the Reds payroll limitationsl, you can't sign every good pitcher you have longterm.

[oregonred]

Not even close, but I want to dream too.

#14 - Please enlighten me with your facts

[PeteRoseDay]

If you think the Reds will get a bigger TV deal than the Cardinals, then you are making stuff up. I'll just leave it at that.

I'm still excited about our upcoming negotiation though. It should give the Reds a lot more flexibility.

[Rando]

Actually Reds might be getting a huge deal. They have the biggest baseball TV market in the nation.

[JMO]

Extend Latos and Leake. Let Cueto go after 2015. Extend Bruce when necessary.

I would start conversations with Billy Hamilton, Cingrani, Stephenson and Mesoraco. Extend early. All of that depends obviously on how these players perform in 14, but the Reds could save some money.

[PeteRoseDay]

Conversations with Hamilton and Stephenson? Seriously?

Let's see how they do in the majors for at least 1 season before we jump the gun on that.

[yadontSabo]

I believe the Reds are carried on Fox Sports Ohio, Fox Sports Indiana and Fox Sports South. I don't know the area or population but I think we're the only team to be carried on 3 regional sports networks. I also don't know what that means in terms of contract negotiations.

[oregonred]

If you think the Reds will get a bigger TV deal than the Cardinals, then you are making stuff up. I'll just leave it at that.

I'm still excited about our upcoming negotiation though. It should give the Reds a lot more flexibility.

That's a good comparison. I think the team that starts its own regional network gets the bigger deal and the Reds would have more to gain on that front. If both stay with Fox, the Reds should be getting an equal or better deal. The population base in Reds Country within 100, 150, 200 and 250 miles is much higher than the Cardinals.

Reds have 7 of the top 65 Nielsen markets in Reds Country and two major markets in Indy (#26) and Columbus (#32). With Knoxville (#61), Nashville (#29) and smaller but top 100 Toledo, Tri-Cities (#97) and Evansville (#104), Ft Wayne (#109) at the edges.

Memphis (#50), with Springfield, MO (#75), Paducah/Cape Girardo gives them 4 of the top 81. You could argue Little Rock (#56) but that's 350mi SW and Des Moines (#72) is a free for all. And Evansville.

STL itself has a 40% bigger local core than Cinci. Since the Cinci market is boxed in with five local TV markets within 100 miles in all directions, but Cinci/Dayton is 15% bigger.

[frivolousz21]

That's a good comparison. I think the team that starts its own regional network gets the bigger deal and the Reds would have more to gain on that front. If both stay with Fox, the Reds should be getting an equal or better deal. The population base in Reds Country within 100, 150, 200 and 250 miles is much higher than the Cardinals.

Reds have 7 of the top 65 Nielsen markets in Reds Country and two major markets in Indy (#26) and Columbus (#32). With Knoxville (#61), Nashville (#29) and smaller but top 100 Toledo, Tri-Cities (#97) and Evansville (#104), Ft Wayne (#109) at the edges.

Memphis (#50), with Springfield, MO (#75), Paducah/Cape Girardo gives them 4 of the top 81. You could argue Little Rock (#56) but that's 350mi SW and Des Moines (#72) is a free for all. And Evansville.

STL itself has a 40% bigger local core than Cinci. Since the Cinci market is boxed in with five local TV markets within 100 miles in all directions, but Cinci/Dayton is 15% bigger.

You forgot about Tulsa(#59), Oklahoma City(#41), Quad Cities, Springfield, IL(#82), Davenport - R. Island - Moline#99),Ft. Smith - Springfield(#101), Evansville(#104), Peoria - Bloomington (#116), Columbia - Jefferson City(#138), some games are aired in Tupelo(#133), Rockford(#138). Joplin - Pittsburg(#149).


I doubt the money really matters outside of the main local market. But if it does. How do you think the Cardinals draw 3.2 mil+ per season. Trust me it's not coming from St. Louis. The cardinals have such little competition in Oklahoma, most of Missouri, Southern IL, Arkansas, Western KY, and Western TN.




Cardinals on FOX Sports Midwest

Cardinals telecasts air on FOX Sports Midwest in most of Missouri, central and southern Illinois and Iowa (check with local provider for availability in Iowa).
Cardinals on FOX Sports Indiana

Cardinals telecasts air on FOX Sports Indiana in southwest Indiana. If the Cardinals and Indiana Pacers play at the same time on FOX Sports Indiana both games will be shown in southwest Indiana, with one game appearing on the primary FOX Sports Indiana channel and the other game on an alternate channel that is sometimes labeled FOX Sports Plus.
Cardinals on SportSouth and FOX Sports Tennessee/South

SportSouth and FOX Sports South/FOX Sports Tennessee will carry most regular season Cardinals games in parts of Tennessee, Kentucky and Mississippi. The remaining games are available on an alternate channel on some cable systems. Some games are not available in some areas. The SportSouth and FOX Sports South/FOX Sports Tennessee schedule will be announced in March.
Cardinals on DirecTV and Dish Network in Western Kentucky

Cardinals games are available in western Kentucky via FOX Sports South and its alternate channel. We encourage you to contact DirecTV or Dish Network to request that FOX Sports South be added to DirecTV's Total Choice lineup or Dish Network's America's Top 120 Plus lineup in your area.
Cardinals FOX Sports Midwest telecasts in Arkansas and Oklahoma

In Arkansas and Oklahoma, FOX Sports Midwest Cardinals telecasts are available and shown on an alternate cable channel, sometimes labeled FOX Sports Plus - rather than the primary channel designated for FOX Sports Southwest/FOX Sports Oklahoma.
Cardinals on Satellite and Telco


http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/stl/images/schedule/y2013/radio_map_900x705.jpg

[jlcomo]

That's a good comparison. I think the team that starts its own regional network gets the bigger deal and the Reds would have more to gain on that front. If both stay with Fox, the Reds should be getting an equal or better deal. The population base in Reds Country within 100, 150, 200 and 250 miles is much higher than the Cardinals.

Reds have 7 of the top 65 Nielsen markets in Reds Country and two major markets in Indy (#26) and Columbus (#32). With Knoxville (#61), Nashville (#29) and smaller but top 100 Toledo, Tri-Cities (#97) and Evansville (#104), Ft Wayne (#109) at the edges.

Memphis (#50), with Springfield, MO (#75), Paducah/Cape Girardo gives them 4 of the top 81. You could argue Little Rock (#56) but that's 350mi SW and Des Moines (#72) is a free for all. And Evansville.

STL itself has a 40% bigger local core than Cinci. Since the Cinci market is boxed in with five local TV markets within 100 miles in all directions, but Cinci/Dayton is 15% bigger.
That's interesting. The Reds have a 15% bigger market within 100 miles of Cincy yet they draw almost a million less than STL in attendance.

[LewGra]

That's a good comparison. I think the team that starts its own regional network gets the bigger deal and the Reds would have more to gain on that front. If both stay with Fox, the Reds should be getting an equal or better deal. The population base in Reds Country within 100, 150, 200 and 250 miles is much higher than the Cardinals.

Reds have 7 of the top 65 Nielsen markets in Reds Country and two major markets in Indy (#26) and Columbus (#32). With Knoxville (#61), Nashville (#29) and smaller but top 100 Toledo, Tri-Cities (#97) and Evansville (#104), Ft Wayne (#109) at the edges.

Memphis (#50), with Springfield, MO (#75), Paducah/Cape Girardo gives them 4 of the top 81. You could argue Little Rock (#56) but that's 350mi SW and Des Moines (#72) is a free for all. And Evansville.

STL itself has a 40% bigger local core than Cinci. Since the Cinci market is boxed in with five local TV markets within 100 miles in all directions, but Cinci/Dayton is 15% bigger.

The potential population base is higher, but the area you described is a mixed viewership. There are more teams to draw from that pool. The Cardinals pretty much have that area to themselves.

[oregonred]

Oklahoma City and Tulsa? STL is 400miles from each. Dallas is 200 miles from OKC and 250 to Tulsa. KC is much closer to both.

Quad Cities, Davenport, Peoria, Moline and Rockford? Did I miss something or did the Cubs and White Sox move to Portland and Vegas?

Cardinals reach a good size geography, but most of it outside STL metro is sparsely populated.

[LewGra]

Oklahoma City and Tulsa? STL is 400miles from each. Dallas is 200 miles from OKC and 250 to Tulsa. KC is much closer to both.

Quad Cities, Davenport, Peoria, Moline and Rockford? Did I miss something or did the Cubs and White Sox move to Portland and Vegas?

Cardinals reach a good size geography, but most of it outside STL metro is sparsely populated.

Yet still reach more tv sets than we do.

http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2013/10/local-mlb-tv-ratings-tigers-lead-the-way-again-cards-second/

http://regressing.deadspin.com/which-teams-have-the-best-local-fan-bases-1521626155

[yadontSabo]

Yet still reach more tv sets than we do.

http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2013/10/local-mlb-tv-ratings-tigers-lead-the-way-again-cards-second/

http://regressing.deadspin.com/which-teams-have-the-best-local-fan-bases-1521626155

I pretty sure those ratings are for local television markets. If not then it's amazing that the Tigers average 11 million households tuning into their games on Fox Sports Detroit.

[mth123]

I think this discussion is off base. MOst of the area is split and not something either team can claim exclusivity to. Indianapolis, Louisville, Nashville and Evansville have split fan bases for both teams (and some others). Cincy can claim Dayton, Lexington and a part of Columbus. St. Louis can probably claim most of Memphis and Little Rock. I'd say that most of the expanded territory is split many ways and these teams are actually competing for the areas in question. I'd say McGwire, Pujols and several years of contention with a few WS appearances and victories vs. the lost decade and Marge's dereliction of the farm system has allowed St. Louis, Chicago, Atlanta, Cleveland and Detroit to eat into much of what was "Reds country" in the 1970s. These few seasons of contention have got the Reds back in the game, but they will need to actually win something more significant and sustain the contention for a long period to get back to what it was.

[Assembly Hall]

Interesting discussion. I cant speak for Ohio, Kentucky, or Tennessee but Indiana is pretty diverse when it comes to who they root for. I live about 40 miles west of Ft. Wayne. Back in the 70's the Reds were broadcast by a local tv station so at that time there were plenty of Reds fans around here. I don't see it anymore. Most of the people around me are Cubs, White Sox, or Tiger fans. But there sure as heck aint many Cardinal fans.

[mth123]

Interesting discussion. I cant speak for Ohio, Kentucky, or Tennessee but Indiana is pretty diverse when it comes to who they root for. I live about 40 miles west of Ft. Wayne. Back in the 70's the Reds were broadcast by a local tv station so at that time there were plenty of Reds fans around here. I don't see it anymore. Most of the people around me are Cubs, White Sox, or Tiger fans. But there sure as heck aint many Cardinal fans.

Yeah, it's pretty diverse. I lived in Indy most of my life and live in Southern Indiana now. Most of my Indy friends who were baseball fans were Cardinal guys with a few Cubs guys thrown in. I was one of only a couple Reds fans. Southern Indiana is more Reds, but once you get west of I65, Cards fans become more abundant.

[Assembly Hall]

Yeah, it's pretty diverse. I lived in Indy most of my life and live in Southern Indiana now. Most of my Indy friends who were baseball fans were Cardinal guys with a few Cubs guys thrown in. I was one of only a couple Reds fans. Southern Indiana is more Reds, but once you get west of I65, Cards fans become more abundant.

I work in Evansville quite a bit......definitely a Cardinal town.

[oregonred]

I think this discussion is off base. MOst of the area is split and not something either team can claim exclusivity to. Indianapolis, Louisville, Nashville and Evansville have split fan bases for both teams (and some others). Cincy can claim Dayton, Lexington and a part of Columbus. St. Louis can probably claim most of Memphis and Little Rock. I'd say that most of the expanded territory is split many ways and these teams are actually competing for the areas in question. I'd say McGwire, Pujols and several years of contention with a few WS appearances and victories vs. the lost decade and Marge's dereliction of the farm system has allowed St. Louis, Chicago, Atlanta, Cleveland and Detroit to eat into much of what was "Reds country" in the 1970s. These few seasons of contention have got the Reds back in the game, but they will need to actually win something more significant and sustain the contention for a long period to get back to what it was.

Somewhat. To the current ownership's vast credit they have made it their mission to reclaim Reds Country. Cinci/Dayton/Lexington is a 2M household core and having two top ~30 and three top 50 markets within 100 miles is huge. Columbus locals can chime in but I think at worst Columbus (900K) is again a 50/50 town for the Reds (I remember seeing some articles on Columbus Reds ratings being very strong). Louisville and Huntington/Charleston (1.1M) should be solid Reds country and Indy (1.2M) is more a mix with the Cubs but Indy is a vitally important market that the Reds appear to have been successful in reclaiming TV and radio reach in recent years. Anything fourther south into Bowling Green, Nashville, Knoxville and Tri-Cities is gravy. There's a potential large market base, a likely middle market base, but definitely not a small market base. The demise of WGN's importance and recent success for the Reds has likely helped to the West. My fantasy idea is a Regional Network with the Pacers, Blue Jackets and Reds...

The Detroit numbers above are wrong. The Tigers can't reach 11M households. Michigan and Toledo have about 3.5M households. I wonder how much (if at all) the Tigers benefit by reaching into SW Ontario. They do benefit by being the only team in a 10M population state. As a side note the glaring omission of an MLB team in North Carolina is a joke.

[Beltway]

As a side note the glaring omission of an MLB team in North Carolina is a joke.
Agreed. I think it would make economic sense for the A's to relocate to North Carolina. The Bay Area is in that in-between area where it's a fairly large market for a single team, but really too small to support two teams.