Art vs. Artist

[improbus]

How much does your opinion of an artist (musician, actor, director, painter, etc...) as a person affect your view of their art? I tend not to care about the person and only about the art. I think I am in the minority on this one.

[reds1869]

I'm a musician who learned long ago not to judge the art because of the artist. Knowing details of the artist's life can certainly help explain their work, though.

[Spazzrico]

I agree with the premise that the author is dead as soon as the work is out there....it effectively takes a life of its own. That said, I'm a human so it's hard to be objective about a piece when the piece was made by a POS.

[Larry Schuler]

It's easier when the artist is literally dead. Knowing you are contributing to the success or wealth of a perceived scumbag can dampen the enjoyment of a work.

[improbus]

Kanye is an interesting test case for this theory.

[RedFanAlways1966]

Hope I not turning this into some sort of political thing. Some might consider me to lean right. However, I like a lot of left of center musicians. The band System of a Down is a good example. Their CD Toxicity is in the car CD-player right now.

Writing, singing and painting about things does not bother me. Go visit and hang with an enemy of our country and I put a lifetime fork in you. Some might find it shocking that my best friend is a liberal. All people are different and I respect that. If I like your art/music/writing/etc, then I could care less about your personal opinions. Guess it is good I focus on guitar/bass/keys/drums more than lyrics.

[Dom Heffner]

System of a Down simply rock. I put "Chop Suey" up there with the best songs ever written.

[*BaseClogger*]

System of a Down simply rock. I put "Chop Suey" up there with the best songs ever written.

Never thought the "nu-metal" label did them justice...

[*BaseClogger*]

I guess I lean art over artist. It's pretty rare that I like every album in a band's discography, especially if they've been around for a while--even my favorites.

Movies are all over the place too, but I think I have stronger favorites there.

Cool thread topic btw...

[Dom Heffner]

Never thought the "nu-metal" label did them justice...

I just want to know how you write something that loud and heavy and beautiful all at once.

[Larry Schuler]

One of the most extreme examples of the idea in this thread is the recent news about the singer from the band Lostprophets. Warning...the allegations against him get very dark and disturbing. Imagine being one of his bandmates. How do you go forward as a band, as individual musicians, and as humans who were very close to an allegedly heinous criminal?

[dougdirt]

If your art doesn't have to do with the part of the artist that I dislike, then it is all good.

An example would be a drug addict writing a song about being high. I will be turned off by that song.

That same artist writes a love song? I will give it a listen.

Improbus has a good example. I think Kanye West is an idiot with a lot of the view points and beliefs that he has. But man oh man can he make some awesome music.

[dougdirt]

How do you go forward as a band, as individual musicians, and as humans who were very close to an allegedly heinous criminal?

You probably form a new bad, immediately. You can't keep that name.

The rest of it though, is just something you have to do. The rest of the band had nothing to do with it and while, if the allegations are true, are beyond terrible, it isn't something that the band members should dwell on much (at least to the point where it is altering how they feel about their own lives).

[nmculbreth]

Kanye is an interesting test case for this theory.

This is the first name that sprung to mind when I saw the thread title. Ultimately I try to appreciate the art independent of the artist, though sometimes that is easier than others.

[marcshoe]

I don't like Kanye's music, even. I'm old.

It takes a lot for me to dislike someone because of a public image. The Gallagher brothers seem like jerks, but I don't really know them, and I'll still listen to Oasis sometimes. They're not my favorites, but that's more because I find their music pretentious than it is because of their personalities.

Orson Scott Card's a bit of an irritant as well, but he's one of my favorite writers. The Wasteland, probably my favorite poem, was edited by Ezra Pound, who was a fascist.

I really don't know. Wasn't this what Amadeus was about?

[improbus]

This is the first name that sprung to mind when I saw the thread title. Ultimately I try to appreciate the art independent of the artist, though sometimes that is easier than others.
What complicates the issue with Kanye is that his music is intensely personal (and massively narcissistic). So, it is hard to divorce him from the music.

[OldRightHander]

It depends what art form we're talking about and what the content is. I give a lot of leeway to actors since I'm relating to the character being portrayed more than the actor. The same goes with most authors. If I like the content of the book, I can overlook quite a lot. With music it's sometimes different. I'm a Christian and I listen to a few Christian artists. I hold them to a higher standard than someone whose music is not overtly Christian. In short, if your music espouses a certain world view that I hold, I kind of expect you to make a fair attempt to live up to it.

[*BaseClogger*]

An example would be a drug addict writing a song about being high. I will be turned off by that song.

What does this mean?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffr0opfm6I4

Like this song? What about songs that are less explicitly about drugs (cuz that's a lot of em)?

[Ravenlord]

I just want to know how you write something that loud and heavy and beautiful all at once.

talent.

46 years ago people would call it "Revolution." the dirty secret is there's about a dozen metal bands world wide who write amazing lyrics and arrangements but are ignored for their genre, and about five dozen non-metal bands whom are ignored for their aggressive but non-metal lyrics and out-of-genre arrangements.

[Ravenlord]

my vote's for art. there are some artists I despise on every imaginable level and they have two or three pieces I not only like, but love. there are artists whom are way out the realm of what I enjoy, but on average have half-a-dozen pieces I think are great.

example, I HATE Nirvana, but "Our love is all we are" from the song "All Apologies" I think is one of the greatest lines ever written. at the same time (on the ignored side),
"We dared to ask for more
But that was long before the nights began to burn
You would have thought we'd learned
You can't make promises all based upon tomorrow
Happiness, security are words we only borrowed
For is this the answer to our prayers, is this was God has sent?
Please understand this isn't what we meant

The future couldn't last, we nailed it to the past
With every word a trap that no one can take
Back from all the architects who find their towers leaning
And every prayer we pray at night has somehow lost its meaning
For is this the answer to our prayers, is this was God has sent?
Please understand this isn't what we meant"
ignored because of genre. . .never mind their offspring is beloved.

[Kingspoint]

How much does your opinion of an artist (musician, actor, director, painter, etc...) as a person affect your view of their art? I tend not to care about the person and only about the art. I think I am in the minority on this one.
As an actor, quite a bit. It effects the acting. It's the reason Old School Hollywood controlled all aspects of publicity. I've read many a direct quote from older actors describing how foolish and self-absorbed an actor must be to open their mouth about anything outside of their craft.

Any other type of artist, I don't care.

[Roy Tucker]

As an actor, quite a bit. It effects the acting. It's the reason Old School Hollywood controlled all aspects of publicity. I've read many a direct quote from older actors describing how foolish and self-absorbed an actor must be to open their mouth about anything outside of their craft.

Any other type of artist, I don't care.

I'm like this too.

Though, the saving grace for most artists is that when they are just starting out, their art is the thing you get to know first and is what attracts you. Then, if their career has legs, you get to know them as a person as well. Sometimes this is good and sometimes not as good.

[vaticanplum]

As an actor, quite a bit. It effects the acting. It's the reason Old School Hollywood controlled all aspects of publicity. I've read many a direct quote from older actors describing how foolish and self-absorbed an actor must be to open their mouth about anything outside of their craft.

Any other type of artist, I don't care.

I strongly disagree with this. A lot of actors are very intelligent and curious people, prone to examination of human nature and principles. There's no reason they shouldn't be at liberty to speak about things "outside of their craft". And I'm not exactly sure what you mean by it affecting the acting. Are some of them self-absored? Sure. So are a lot of people who don't act for a living.

It also sounds like you're limiting "actors" to those who work in Hollywood, which is a pretty narrow definition. The great majority of working actors in the world are outside of that sphere.

[dougdirt]

It also sounds like you're limiting "actors" to those who work in Hollywood, which is a pretty narrow definition. The great majority of working actors in the world are outside of that sphere.

To be fair, no one really cares about those actors on the grand scale of things to the point where what they do off the stage matters. Even great broadway actors aren't known to the common "Joe". But they all know who Dustin Diamond is.

[Kingspoint]

A lot of actors are very intelligent and curious people, prone to examination of human nature and principles. There's no reason they shouldn't be at liberty to speak about things "outside of their craft".

They show a lack of intelligence when they allow their image to distract from the role they are trying to portray.

[*BaseClogger*]

When did this thread turn into a discussion of porn star politics? :D

[vaticanplum]

They show a lack of intelligence when they allow their image to distract from the role they are trying to portray.

Not if they're saying intelligent things.

I would argue that people who can't distinguish between a character and a public persona are the ones who need to evaluate their intelligence and grasp of reality.

[SunDeck]

I was conflicted about Cat Stevens, especially at the time he supposedly (it sure sounded like it to me) supported the Fatwa against Salman Rushdie in 1989. He says he never did, but he's made awful comments about women as well, so I decided I wouldn't listen to his music any more.
Then a friend pointed out that the music I loved was not by Yusef Islam, but by Cat Stevens, an identity which had been left behind. So, with great relief, I put Stevens back into my list of beloved singers from my childhood.

Honestly, I'm not sure my own feelings about Cat Stevens were justified. His music was wonderful and when I was a kid I didn't know anything about him, any more than I knew James Taylor was beating up Carly Simon, or that Bing Crosby had terrorized his kids physically and mentally. But I still love their music and I can't change that.

[Kingspoint]

Not if they're saying intelligent things.

I would argue that people who can't distinguish between a character and a public persona are the ones who need to evaluate their intelligence and grasp of reality.

So, now you resort to name-calling? You must have used all of your intelligence to come up with that one.

[Larry Schuler]

Just imagine you're an artist you don't know and his name calling is a safe anonymous criticism.

[Kingspoint]

Just imagine you're an artist you don't know and his name calling is a safe anonymous criticism.

I have no idea what this sentence means. Would you please reconstruct it so that it makes sense?