WWE problems

[cincrazy]

Not sure how many on here have been/or are currently wrestling fans, but thought this was worth talking about. The WWE has seen a massive plunge in their stock due to the WWE Network falling short of expectations so far as far as number of users buying it, and the WWE not getting the network TV deal they'd been predicting. Lemelson Capital, who bought a large (though not controlling) stake in the WWE is calling for changes, and for the executive management to be removed or the company sold. In essence, they're calling for the head of the McMahons.

Now, I'm not business savvy to say the least. How legitimate of a case do they have? Can the board of directors actually force Vince McMahon out of power as chairman? Or could the WWE revert back to a private company to calm the storm?

Regardless of what happens, should be an interesting next few months for the company. The Network was a huge risk, and so far it looks to be scaring away a lot of investors. Could Lemelson Capital prove to be an even more dire threat to Vince's ownership of the company than WCW in the 90s?

[Tom Servo]

Lemelson can demand changes, but WWE can do whatever they want...though the shareholders may drive the stock down even further if they don't like WWE's choices. WWE seems to finally be paying the price for their decision to become a publicly traded company, as well as their tendency to overhype their audience and business acumen. Still, I think what is mostly going on is that Wall Street got worked by WWE and now they're pissed. I don't think Vince, Steph, and Triple H are going anywhere, but a lot of faceless suits will probably be sacrificed.

The funny thing too is that the Network is awesome, the best thing WWE has done in years if you ask me.

[LoganBuck]

Lemelson can demand changes, but WWE can do whatever they want...though the shareholders may drive the stock down even further if they don't like WWE's choices. WWE seems to finally be paying the price for their decision to become a publicly traded company, as well as their tendency to overhype their audience and business acumen. Still, I think what is mostly going on is that Wall Street got worked by WWE and now they're pissed. I don't think Vince, Steph, and Triple H are going anywhere, but a lot of faceless suits will probably be sacrificed.

The funny thing too is that the Network is awesome, the best thing WWE has done in years if you ask me.

I have heard several ESPN types, comment on the new products from the WWE, and they think that they are on the cutting edge. Maybe a little early, but the model they are creating for their streaming product is run through the MLB.com servers. They think that the streaming product could become the ala carte streaming option that all sports will embrace in the coming years, as consumers turn away from tradional bundled cable and satellite TV products. The average customer of subscription TV has something like 187 different viewing options, and most households only watch 17 channels. Keep an eye on this, it is very important to how sports media will be shaped over the coming decade.

[Yachtzee]

I have heard several ESPN types, comment on the new products from the WWE, and they think that they are on the cutting edge. Maybe a little early, but the model they are creating for their streaming product is run through the MLB.com servers. They think that the streaming product could become the ala carte streaming option that all sports will embrace in the coming years, as consumers turn away from tradional bundled cable and satellite TV products. The average customer of subscription TV has something like 187 different viewing options, and most households only watch 17 channels. Keep an eye on this, it is very important to how sports media will be shaped over the coming decade.

My personal theory is that, in reality, we're only paying for the 17 channels everybody watches. Most of those channels only show repeats and cheap reality shows. My guess is that they exist primarily as big bundles of advertising slots with the shows as something to give the appearance of niche programming. I suspect if they ever approved a la carte pricing and I told my cable company I didn't want TLC because I don't watch Honey Boo Boo or Sister Wives or Toddlers and Tiaras, my cable company would say, "Too bad. You're getting it for free whether you like it or not." Most of those extra channels are like the free rolls and side salad you get when eating out at a restaurant. Just cheap filler to keep you occupied while you wait for your main course.

[Raisor]

The McMahons aren't going anywhere. They control 90% of the voting stock.

[LoganBuck]

My personal theory is that, in reality, we're only paying for the 17 channels everybody watches. Most of those channels only show repeats and cheap reality shows. My guess is that they exist primarily as big bundles of advertising slots with the shows as something to give the appearance of niche programming. I suspect if they ever approved a la carte pricing and I told my cable company I didn't want TLC because I don't watch Honey Boo Boo or Sister Wives or Toddlers and Tiaras, my cable company would say, "Too bad. You're getting it for free whether you like it or not." Most of those extra channels are like the free rolls and side salad you get when eating out at a restaurant. Just cheap filler to keep you occupied while you wait for your main course.

The point is that there is a growing % of people leaving traditional content providers. All the free rolls, and drink refills, don't matter. This is why net neutrality is this big thing, and the general public doesn't seem to understand it/care. The government and the telecom giants are not acting in our (the consumers) best interests.

[Caveat Emperor]

The point is that there is a growing % of people leaving traditional content providers. All the free rolls, and drink refills, don't matter. This is why net neutrality is this big thing, and the general public doesn't seem to understand it/care. The government and the telecom giants are not acting in our (the consumers) best interests.

Yup -- there was a thread about this over on the ORG. The fact is that the "streaming revolution" is going to be killed off in it's tracks by the end of net neutrality and the (eventual) shift in policy by home internet providers away from uncapped, unthrottled data. Comcast (the country's largest provider following it's merger w/ TW) is already planning on imposing hard data caps on all home users (http://www.pcworld.com/article/2155286/comcast-exec-says-bandwidth-caps-for-all-to-return-within-five-years.html) within the next few years.

These people aren't stupid -- they see the future and they're going to work in a such a way as to ensure that they'll continue to maintain profit levels as people transition away from traditional "cable packages" and towards more on-demand and streaming content. To think there is this utopian future awaiting where everyone enjoys a la carte programming available at low monthly prices is, frankly, naive.

As far as the WWE is concerned, they have a two-fold problem --

1.) They upset the apple-cart with their WWE network, but (ironically) they don't have the muscle behind them to make it work.

2.) They toned down their content heavily so that Linda McMahon could run for the Senate, and they've now got a tremendously watered down product that's almost entirely devoid of compelling or interesting personalities.

[M2]

1) Data caps are pure evil. We should be beefing up our networks, not throttling our data.

2) The WWE Network gets at the fundamental problem that has plagued the wrestling industry since the dawn of pay-per-view: only a small, niche audience watches wrestling's biggest events. Imagine if the Super Bowl audience was 1/20th the size of the average Sunday game broadcast.

3) The reason the WWE didn't get the TV deal it wanted is because it treats TV like an infomercial. It's on TV to sell something else ad the networks know it.

4) The WWE has been in what I'd a Corporate Era for most of the past decade. It keeps running out the same guys in the main event and it's not being terribly creative. Add the PG nonsense on top of it and you get a product that feels a bit stale. They've got a ton of talent, they just need to unleash it.

[Slyder]

Not sure how many on here have been/or are currently wrestling fans, but thought this was worth talking about. The WWE has seen a massive plunge in their stock due to the WWE Network falling short of expectations so far as far as number of users buying it, and the WWE not getting the network TV deal they'd been predicting. Lemelson Capital, who bought a large (though not controlling) stake in the WWE is calling for changes, and for the executive management to be removed or the company sold. In essence, they're calling for the head of the McMahons.

Now, I'm not business savvy to say the least. How legitimate of a case do they have? Can the board of directors actually force Vince McMahon out of power as chairman? Or could the WWE revert back to a private company to calm the storm?

Regardless of what happens, should be an interesting next few months for the company. The Network was a huge risk, and so far it looks to be scaring away a lot of investors. Could Lemelson Capital prove to be an even more dire threat to Vince's ownership of the company than WCW in the 90s?

The McMahon's aren't going anywhere anytime soon they own far too much of the stock. The main problem I would say is that WWE struggles to make main event stars that they can market. Look at the last few years who were the "big draws" Undertaker (late 40s, granted like 2 months out of the year), HHH (early 40s), Cena (37), Orton (34), Batista (45) who's the guy to replace these guys? They bring Hogan and Rock back for a few weeks/months for nostalgia pop.

Daniel Bryan (turns 33 this week) has a great following but IMO their marketing of him (from a merchandise side) failed miserably. His niche was/is largely the crowd sick of the same old crap and most of his merchandise is so kiddy and stupid most of his fans aren't going to get it.

CM Punk (35) has become the biggest in the company star twice. Once after the Pipebomb heard around the world (only to be steamrolled by creative and HHH's ego) and again in 2012-2013 which led to a meh year long title reign where he played 2nd banana (on tv and PPV) to whatever Cena was doing. Worked to the point that he pretty much told them to take this job and shove it before a Mania run, which is usually what makes/breaks wrestlers entire year.

Brock Lesnar (36) paid a TON of money, and did bring a lot of new eyeballs from MMA when he returned in 2012. He usually only wrestles at Mania, Summer Slam, Royal Rumble, and Survivor Series.

Who else has the WWE made and can really make money off of?

They also tried to expand beyond what brought them to the dance. The XFL, Bodybuilding Associations, WWE Studios, WWF restaurants, 2 Congressional campaigns by Linda. They all lost TONS of money. As a publicly traded company they have reached the point where they're going to HAVE to change SOMETHING.

This doesn't even include the problems they have in creative, basic story telling is a lost art because they are CONSTANTLY changing writing teams. An example of this is John Cena vs Bray Wyatt at Mania... Wyatt is suppose to be this big bad guy playing mind games and messing with Cena's head, he has these two goons with him big bad mo fos. Cena "rises" above it to win a glorified 3 on 1 match whats the point of this story to continue? The "good guy" already "beat the odds".

[Slyder]

4) The WWE has been in what I'd a Corporate Era for most of the past decade. It keeps running out the same guys in the main event and it's not being terribly creative. Add the PG nonsense on top of it and you get a product that feels a bit stale. They've got a ton of talent, they just need to unleash it.

PG isn't part of the problem, the people calling the shots are. The Hogan Era, also known as "the Golden Era", was PG and its considered to be one of the greatest eras in WWF/WWE/WWWF history.

[Caveat Emperor]

PG isn't part of the problem, the people calling the shots are. The Hogan Era, also known as "the Golden Era", was PG and its considered to be one of the greatest eras in WWF/WWE/WWWF history.

It was one of the greatest eras in WWF/WWE/WWWF history because the show was fairly comparable with what you saw on TV. It was PG in an era of PG programming. The "Attitude" era reflected an America where "Jerry Springer" was a nationwide sensation -- it was kinda trashy, habitually stepping over the line of good taste, and very funny. The product now doesn't reflect where the rest of the entertainment world is; it's inoffensive and mostly uninteresting in an era where it competes with countless reality television shows and original cable programs that aren't afraid to push boundaries.

[Caveat Emperor]

4) The WWE has been in what I'd a Corporate Era for most of the past decade. It keeps running out the same guys in the main event and it's not being terribly creative. Add the PG nonsense on top of it and you get a product that feels a bit stale. They've got a ton of talent, they just need to unleash it.

They've got a ton of talent -- the problem is twofold:

1. They don't have nearly enough guys who can handle the microphone effectively.

2. They're booking way too many guys as "tweeners" and not doing enough writing to keep feuds/matches interesting.

Problem 1 is fairly obvious when you watch the show now -- they've really only got 3 or 4 wrestlers in the entire company who really know how to come out and cut a promo, and one of those people (Cena) has a gimmick that is so completely tired that nothing he says really registers with anyone any longer.

You think back to when the WWE owned the world in the late-90s / early-00s, and they had an endless supply of dudes who they could throw out for a talking, fued-building segment with no worries: Rock, Austin, Foley, Angle, HHH, Jericho, HBK, Edge, Taker, etc. With so few guys on the roster now that can carry an entire segment in the mic, it limits what they can do creatively. Take a guy like Wade Barrett -- he's a fantastic talker, he's got a new gimmick that is over as hell, and they don't have anyone on the roster that he can get into a "war of words" to build a decent feud. So, instead, they're stuck running some stupid "#1 Contender" tournament just so he can fight RVD at a PPV.

If you have guys who can't talk, you better be scripting some incredible stuff in-show to keep people invested in what's going on.

[Chip R]

They've got a ton of talent -- the problem is twofold:

1. They don't have nearly enough guys who can handle the microphone effectively.

2. They're booking way too many guys as "tweeners" and not doing enough writing to keep feuds/matches interesting.

Problem 1 is fairly obvious when you watch the show now -- they've really only got 3 or 4 wrestlers in the entire company who really know how to come out and cut a promo, and one of those people (Cena) has a gimmick that is so completely tired that nothing he says really registers with anyone any longer.

You think back to when the WWE owned the world in the late-90s / early-00s, and they had an endless supply of dudes who they could throw out for a talking, fued-building segment with no worries: Rock, Austin, Foley, Angle, HHH, Jericho, HBK, Edge, Taker, etc. With so few guys on the roster now that can carry an entire segment in the mic, it limits what they can do creatively. Take a guy like Wade Barrett -- he's a fantastic talker, he's got a new gimmick that is over as hell, and they don't have anyone on the roster that he can get into a "war of words" to build a decent feud. So, instead, they're stuck running some stupid "#1 Contender" tournament just so he can fight RVD at a PPV.

If you have guys who can't talk, you better be scripting some incredible stuff in-show to keep people invested in what's going on.

I don't follow it as much as I used to but I'd say you make some great points.

I wouldn't worry too much about this stock plunge. Companies go through this all the time. And, as far as wrestling goes, they are the only game in town. Of course they see themselves as more than just a wrestling company.

You would think they would use Paul Heyman's talents as a booker to spice up their in-ring product. I don't necessarily mean going back to the hardcore days but telling a better story. But part of WWE's problem is complacency. They don't have a WCW to compete against and they don't have an ECW to co opt their ideas.

I don't see a problem with them being PG. The Attitude era was great but those fans are grown-ups now and probably have kids of their own. Even the biggest Stone Cold fan is going to want his 6-7 year old to watch a PG product rather than a rougher product. That's how you build your fan base. Hook them at a young age and while they may not be fans for life, they will certainly be more likely to pass it on to their kids.

[Tom Servo]

Apparently Paul has 0 interest in being involved with creative, he says he has fought his last battles with the McMahons in regards to the creative end of WWE.


I don't think PG is necessarily the problem because even when they went PG in mid 2008 the product was still strong for the rest of the year. I think WWE really fell into a rut of relying on the same main event guys well past any point of reason. So many "future main event players" were never given a chance to run with the ball, and the fact that Randy Orton vs. John Cena headlined the last PPV of 2013 is mind-boggling to me.

[Caveat Emperor]

I don't think PG is necessarily the problem because even when they went PG in mid 2008 the product was still strong for the rest of the year. I think WWE really fell into a rut of relying on the same main event guys well past any point of reason. So many "future main event players" were never given a chance to run with the ball, and the fact that Randy Orton vs. John Cena headlined the last PPV of 2013 is mind-boggling to me.

It gets back to my point, though: it's hard to give a guy a world title / top-card push if they can't talk. You have a guy like Roman Reigns, for example -- he looks the part of a huge star, he's over with the crowd as part of his group, and he does good in-ring work. His promos are garbage, though. He's OK in pre-scripted backstage packages where (presumably) they can do a few takes and let him play off the rest of the Shield, but when the mic is hot his personality just disappears. You can get SOME mileage out of the "Cold, silent, killer" character, but it's hard to keep fans interested and invested in a character like that.

Or, look at Fandango; kid got over as hell with his goofy theme song and gimmick for a few minutes and there was an opportunity to really build something with the character, but the moment passed and the opportunity was missed because he can't talk. Now he's mired in midcardom with storylines that revolve around a breakup with his girlfriend over twitter.

Don't get me wrong -- Creative has been garbage for several years now (their inability to script interesting feuds and stubborn refusal to let characters occupy traditional heel/face roles is frustrating), but the WWE is doing themselves no favors when it comes to talent development. They're pumping out muscled-up dude after muscled-up dude from NXT and their training programs, but they're not getting enough people with personality into the pipeline and they're certainly not getting enough people with stage presence or showmanship on the mic.

[Tom Servo]

See though I don't think Orton, for instance, is anything special on the mic. Same for Batista. They got over thanks to storyline and the mic work came later. I think the problem now is that there is no compelling storyline for most guys to reach the top level. WWE's tried and true method over the last few years is "Lose a lot, win Money in the Bank, lose a lot, cash in Money in the Bank, act surprised when the World/WWE title reign doesn't go over great".

I am all on-board for a Roman Reigns megapush, I think he has all of the tools to be a franchise player. Even better is the built in storylines he has with Rollins and Ambrose when the inevitable split occurs.

[M2]

It was one of the greatest eras in WWF/WWE/WWWF history because the show was fairly comparable with what you saw on TV. It was PG in an era of PG programming. The "Attitude" era reflected an America where "Jerry Springer" was a nationwide sensation -- it was kinda trashy, habitually stepping over the line of good taste, and very funny. The product now doesn't reflect where the rest of the entertainment world is; it's inoffensive and mostly uninteresting in an era where it competes with countless reality television shows and original cable programs that aren't afraid to push boundaries.

Absolutely this. The product has to move forward with the times.


They've got a ton of talent -- the problem is twofold:

1. They don't have nearly enough guys who can handle the microphone effectively.

2. They're booking way too many guys as "tweeners" and not doing enough writing to keep feuds/matches interesting.

Problem 1 is fairly obvious when you watch the show now -- they've really only got 3 or 4 wrestlers in the entire company who really know how to come out and cut a promo, and one of those people (Cena) has a gimmick that is so completely tired that nothing he says really registers with anyone any longer.

You think back to when the WWE owned the world in the late-90s / early-00s, and they had an endless supply of dudes who they could throw out for a talking, fued-building segment with no worries: Rock, Austin, Foley, Angle, HHH, Jericho, HBK, Edge, Taker, etc. With so few guys on the roster now that can carry an entire segment in the mic, it limits what they can do creatively. Take a guy like Wade Barrett -- he's a fantastic talker, he's got a new gimmick that is over as hell, and they don't have anyone on the roster that he can get into a "war of words" to build a decent feud. So, instead, they're stuck running some stupid "#1 Contender" tournament just so he can fight RVD at a PPV.

If you have guys who can't talk, you better be scripting some incredible stuff in-show to keep people invested in what's going on.

I disagree and agree. I think they've got a solid pack of mic handlers. Bray Wyatt and Wade Barrett are brilliant. Damien Sandow has done some excellent mic work (and he can go in the ring), but they've spent the past year burying him. When they let him cut loose, Dolph Ziggler can deliver an awesome promo. Cody Rhodes has been good on the mic for years: did great work during his Beautiful Disaster phase and knows how to sell a match. Though he has a reputation for being stiff on the mic, Seth Rollins has had some really good moments on the stick during that past six months (going toe-to-toe with Piper on one Raw). The Usos cut a couple of solid promos back when they were chasing the belts, but they've barely said a word since they became champs. Del Rio and Sheamus are stuck in their characters at the moment, but they can promo. Heath Slater's always been a certain kind of goofy fun, though he'll never get a push. Bryan's all right with the talky talky, and if/when Punk comes back, he's as good as it gets. Cena I agree is a problem because we've seen him cut the same promo a zillion times. He even seems bored with himself these days. I really do think that his character effectively ended at WM29 against the Rock and we're now watching Zombie Cena. He just doesn't know he's dead yet.

Also, I think you've overrated a few of the Attitude Era folks. Austin was dreadfully repetitive. He had his schtick down and people loved it, but it's a good thing he took his ball and went home when he did. We didn't have to endure him running through the motions long after his act got tired (like Hogan and Cena). Angle was a B-level talker, maybe even B-, but he was an A-level wrestler. Taker was terrible. Roll back the eyes and make some corny death pun, barf. Edge started out rough on the mic, but turned into a great promo guy because they gave him the stick and let him develop.

Where I agree is your second point. They've got this whole directionless mid-card that WWE Creative apparently can't be bothered to book. What they did to Big E when he won the IC title was criminal. No one gets over. So I don't think the problem is Barrett doesn't have anyone who can talk back at him. It's that his first feud with the belt looks like it's RVD, and nobody cares about that. Give him a feud we can sink our teeth into instead. To me it's as simple as pushing Barrett, Ziggler, Cody, the Shield guys, Wyatt, Cesaro, Bryan, Big E, the Usos and Sandow. Put them in high profile feuds and make sure they all get their share of big wins. Mix them in with Evolution, figure out how to make Cena interesting again, keep Sheamus/Del Rio/Big Show/Kane viable, maybe try to resurrect guys like Swagger/Miz/Kofi/Zack Ryder, mix in rising talents from NXT (e.g. Sami Zayn) - it really isn't brain surgery. They just need to have that baker's dozen of performers I listed break the glass ceiling instead of serially saddling them with a losing streak gimmick (which never does anything but bury a guy). The problem with this era right now is they're holding back most of the talents who could define it.

[Caveat Emperor]

Where I agree is your second point. They've got this whole directionless mid-card that WWE Creative apparently can't be bothered to book. What they did to Big E when he won the IC title was criminal. No one gets over. So I don't think the problem is Barrett doesn't have anyone who can talk back at him. It's that his first feud with the belt looks like it's RVD, and nobody cares about that. Give him a feud we can sink our teeth into instead. To me it's as simple as pushing Barrett, Ziggler, Cody, the Shield guys, Wyatt, Cesaro, Bryan, Big E, the Usos and Sandow. Put them in high profile feuds and make sure they all get their share of big wins. Mix them in with Evolution, figure out how to make Cena interesting again, keep Sheamus/Del Rio/Big Show/Kane viable, maybe try to resurrect guys like Swagger/Miz/Kofi/Zack Ryder, mix in rising talents from NXT (e.g. Sami Zayn) - it really isn't brain surgery. They just need to have that baker's dozen of performers I listed break the glass ceiling instead of serially saddling them with a losing streak gimmick (which never does anything but bury a guy). The problem with this era right now is they're holding back most of the talents who could define it.

The best thing that ever happened to the WWF of the mid-90s was WCW coming along and pulling out all of the guys who were just going through the motions and looking for a paycheck. They were forced to get younger and start trying new things in order to kickstart interest in the promotion -- WCW succeeded for a while with the aging stars, but eventually the egos took over the asylum and created the same situation that the WWF is now facing (lots of young talent being blocked from the top of the card).

[Tom Servo]

Cody and Dolph have both been ready to be regular main event players since 2011, it's pretty depressing.

[Caveat Emperor]

See though I don't think Orton, for instance, is anything special on the mic. Same for Batista. They got over thanks to storyline and the mic work came later. I think the problem now is that there is no compelling storyline for most guys to reach the top level. WWE's tried and true method over the last few years is "Lose a lot, win Money in the Bank, lose a lot, cash in Money in the Bank, act surprised when the World/WWE title reign doesn't go over great".

I am all on-board for a Roman Reigns megapush, I think he has all of the tools to be a franchise player. Even better is the built in storylines he has with Rollins and Ambrose when the inevitable split occurs.

I like Reigns work a lot -- but they need to have him spending every hour that he isn't working out or performing with some kind of an acting coach or a speech coach, and they need to start writing him some interesting stuff to say.

The guy who they need to immediately capitalize on right this second is Wade Barrett. They need to start booking him as a straight, old-school HHH style heel and start pushing him up the card, because they've got lightning in a bottle with this new gimmick of his.

Creative needs to get back to scripting reasons why guys are fighting beyond just "don't like one another" / "interfered in my match" etc. It can be done, shockingly.

[Tom Servo]

Yeah I am all on board the Barrett train, his in-ring skills have developed greatly since his first aborted main event push in 2010 and the Bad News gimmick has gotten over great. Plus he's like a God to WWE fans in England.

[M2]

So many "future main event players" were never given a chance to run with the ball, and the fact that Randy Orton vs. John Cena headlined the last PPV of 2013 is mind-boggling to me.

I didn't have a problem with that, though I think they made some major mistakes with it. First was not building up Orton as the ultimate big game player. He became a prop in the Bryan-Authority story prior to Cena's return and too often he was whining about meaningless garbage instead of being cocky and backing it up. Walking around with those two belts, he should have seemed unbeatable right up until WrestleMania. Meanwhile Cena forced the title unification bout, which really was a clash of the titans. Then he lost with apparently no lingering regrets or anger over his self-inflicted wounds. When he got a rematch at the Rumble, Orton was 100% right that it violated the "winner takes all" billing of their TLC match. Storywise, Cena played inside baseball twice and failed. That's Heel 101 and it never got addressed or worked into Cena's character at all.


I am all on-board for a Roman Reigns megapush, I think he has all of the tools to be a franchise player. Even better is the built in storylines he has with Rollins and Ambrose when the inevitable split occurs.

I'm down with a Reigns megapush, but I'd be happy for the Shield to stick together for the foreseeable future. Someday they'll have monster feuds, but I'd wait until all three have taken a turn with the WWE title as Shield members. These guys have been so good together that I'd throw away the standard faction breakup playbook. Let these guys progress down a completely different trail.

[M2]

Yeah I am all on board the Barrett train, his in-ring skills have developed greatly since his first aborted main event push in 2010 and the Bad News gimmick has gotten over great. Plus he's like a God to WWE fans in England.

He nearly ripped the roof off the arena last night.

[Ravenlord]

I think for a lot of guys the biggest problem with the mic is over scripting. they're wrestlers, not necessarily theater majors who can remember a bunch of lines very quickly. the scripting causes many of them IMO, to have severely underdeveloped abilities in crowd interaction and improvisation. and because so much of it involves controlled dialogue from the very beginning, guys who don't spend a crap ton of time in the indies or are natural gifted at it are generally sunk before they hit the water.

[dougdirt]

I will just chime in with this: I am a big fan of several WWE Films. They make pretty good thriller/scary movies.

[cincrazy]

For what it's worth, I believe Jericho and Foley have both chimed in on the art of the promo nowadays. Apparently one of the times Jericho came back from sabbatical, he was going out to do a promo and was handed a script to read from. Because of the clout he carries he was able to convince Vince to let him do the promo without memorizing a script, but unfortunately most don't have that luxury.

For instance, take a guy like Big E. If you follow him on Twitter, you'd know he's a pretty charismatic and funny guy. Granted he's not very good on the mic right now, but neither was the Rock when he first started. The Rock was given leeway to find his style and get his legs under him. Guys nowadays don't really have that luxury and it's a shame.

I think the in-ring work is as good as ever, in my mind even better than it was during the Attitude Era. The difference is, it's not as compelling television. Mic work isn't great, and the story-telling is just awful most of the time. Even stories with promise such as Punk vs the Authority in 2011 and Wyatt vs. Cena this year don't reach their true potential because of awful creative ideas.

[Caveat Emperor]

Wyatt v. Cena is a dead-end storyline because Creative won't turn Cena full-heel (which is the logical outcome to this storyline -- either the Wyatts push Cena heel or Cena swerves and joins up with Bray Wyatt to take on the rest of the WWE). They're content with the status-quo on Cena because he sells tons of merch to kids and is a great PR figure doing "Make a Wish" type stuff as a babyface.

Bray Wyatt is, literally, the most compelling thing going on in the company right now -- and it's by several orders of magnitude over anything else going on right now. It's being completely wasted on this dead-end storyline.

It all falls on Creative; they keep churning out garbage gimmick after garbage gimmick and putting guys into programs with no storyline other than "wrestler X doesn't like wrestler Y."

[Gallen5862]

The WWE finally signs Sting but have yet to put him on TV. I am a huge Sting Fan. They need to have him come in and challange the authority. Form a faction with Cena and the Shield. Have him make an appearance at Payback and help the Shield win.They still owe The Rock a championship rematch from his loss to Cena from Wrestlemania 39. They do a poor job remembering who still has championship rematches.

One match I wish they would do is the all titles on the line in a Tripple Threat tag team match. The tag team champions would face the team of the United States Champion and the Intercontinential Champion vs the WWE World Heavyweight Champion and the new money in the bank winner. Whoever got the pinfall or submission would win the belt or money in the Bank that the loser had.

IN WCW they had the United States Champion Lex Lugar who was also one half of the Tag team champions tagged with his tag team championship partner Sting vs the world Heavyweight Champion Ric Flair and his partner The Giant Aka Big Show. Big show kept trying to pin his partner Flair for the World Belt and Sting tried to pin lugar to keep their tag team titles but lso to get the united States title.

Another good match would be to have a any former World Champion could compete in the ladder match for the WWE World Heavyweight championship. It could be an open invitational so that they didn't even need to be in the ring when the bell rung to climb the ladder to get the belt. Imagine ric Flair or harley Race or Sting etc showed up from nowhere to get the belt or jBl or they count Jerry "The King Lawleres AWA Championship and they let him climb the ladder to get the belt.

Another cool idea would be have all the belts hanging up above the ring along with money in the Bank. The match would continue as long as belts or the briefcase was still there. Someone could grab as many titles or brief cases as he could. He would be guarenteed to keep whatever he grabbed before getting thrown off the ladder.

[5TimeWSChamps]

The WWE finally signs Sting but have yet to put him on TV. I am a huge Sting Fan. They need to have him come in and challange the authority. Form a faction with Cena and the Shield. Have him make an appearance at Payback and help the Shield win.They still owe The Rock a championship rematch from his loss to cena from Wrestlemania 39. They do a poor job remembering who still has championship rematches.

True. I'm still waiting for Zack Ryder to get his US Championship rematch from when he dropped the belt to Swagger in about 2 minutes back at the beginning of 2012

[Gallen5862]

For what it's worth, I believe Jericho and Foley have both chimed in on the art of the promo nowadays. Apparently one of the times Jericho came back from sabbatical, he was going out to do a promo and was handed a script to read from. Because of the clout he carries he was able to convince Vince to let him do the promo without memorizing a script, but unfortunately most don't have that luxury.

For instance, take a guy like Big E. If you follow him on Twitter, you'd know he's a pretty charismatic and funny guy. Granted he's not very good on the mic right now, but neither was the Rock when he first started. The Rock was given leeway to find his style and get his legs under him. Guys nowadays don't really have that luxury and it's a shame.

I think the in-ring work is as good as ever, in my mind even better than it was during the Attitude Era. The difference is, it's not as compelling television. Mic work isn't great, and the story-telling is just awful most of the time. Even stories with promise such as Punk vs the Authority in 2011 and Wyatt vs. Cena this year don't reach their true potential because of awful creative ideas.

The old NWA and WCW guys did not use scripts they were able to improvise. The Four Horsemen were formed by accident.


http://ringthedamnbell.wordpress.com/2012/10/12/moments-that-changed-wrestling-history-the-four-horsemen/

The Horsemen began when an impromptu tag team interview threw Flair, the Andersons, Tully Blanchard and Dillon together. During this interview Arn Anderson stated “The only time this much havoc had been wreaked by this few a number of people, you need to go all the way back to the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse.” From that moment on the comparison and the name stuck.

From the beginning the four men ran roughshod over the NWA. The Andersons were in tag team title contention, Tully was the National Champion and ‘The Nature Boy’ Ric Flair was the NWA World Champion. Their biggest nemesis during this era was unquestionably Dusty Rhodes. The most famous incident of this feud, and indeed during this era, was when they followed Rhodes’ car and filmed themselves breaking his arm with a baseball bat.

[Slyder]

The WWE finally signs Sting but have yet to put him on TV. I am a huge Sting Fan. They need to have him come in and challange the authority. Form a faction with Cena and the Shield. Have him make an appearance at Payback and help the Shield win.They still owe The Rock a championship rematch from his loss to Cena from Wrestlemania 39. They do a poor job remembering who still has championship rematches.

Do you really want Sting's run to start and Shield's run (as a unit) come to end with Cena? Look at what happens to guys who work with Cena (friend and foe). I'd keep Sting as far away from Cena as I could. Sting's in his 50s, he can only do so much at this point that he needs to almost be like Taker, an attraction not the main focal point. Sting's whole run needs to be very carefully choreographed to maximize Sting's value to WWE (and to the Sting character). Shield needs to win Sunday or blown to smithereens (all 3 go their own ways) and get away from Evolution, they've done nothing really to reestablish Evolution other than Batista laying on his back more than 3MB since Mania. They put the cart before the horse, Evolution should have won the first one and this was the rematch.


One match I wish they would do is the all titles on the line in a Tripple Threat tag team match. The tag team champions would face the team of the United States Champion and the Intercontinential Champion vs the WWE World Heavyweight Champion and the new money in the bank winner. Whoever got the pinfall or submission would win the belt or money in the Bank that the loser had.

IN WCW they had the United States Champion Lex Lugar who was also one half of the Tag team champions tagged with his tag team championship partner Sting vs the world Heavyweight Champion Ric Flair and his partner The Giant Aka Big Show. Big show kept trying to pin his partner Flair for the World Belt and Sting tried to pin lugar to keep their tag team titles but lso to get the united States title.

This sounds like something out of the Vince Russo playbook of wrestling booking. Way too many moving parts and IMO it would cheapen the big belts. If you wanted to do something with the US/IC vs Tag Belts fine, but the days of someones like HHH and Austin being Tag Champs while being WWF and IC champ are long gone. It's kind of like how they had Rhodes Brothers vs Shield on the PPV for their jobs then the next night they won the belts. It was a great moments for all of them, if you had the added stipulation that the belts were on the line it would have made the match far too messy. Could you say Rhodes v Shield could have gone to the next PPV and THEN won the belts go ahead thats a whole nother story.


Another good match would be to have a any former World Champion could compete in the ladder match for the WWE World Heavyweight championship. It could be an open invitational so that they didn't even need to be in the ring when the bell rung to climb the ladder to get the belt. Imagine ric Flair or harley Race or Sting etc showed up from nowhere to get the belt or jBl or they count Jerry "The King Lawler's AWA Championship and they let him climb the ladder to get the belt.

Another cool idea would be have all the belts hanging up above the ring along with money in the Bank. The match would continue as long as belts or the briefcase was still there. Someone could grab as many titles or brief cases as he could. He would be guaranteed to keep whatever he grabbed before getting thrown off the ladder.

TNA already does something like this as I think it's called feast or fired. I don't think you'd want the same guy grabbing multiple "breifcases". The WWE has had a horrible time booking everything as it is let alone figuring out how to get the IC belt on tv because Orton's already defending the WWE World Title later that night (just one random idea).

[Tom Servo]

True. I'm still waiting for Zack Ryder to get his US Championship rematch from when he dropped the belt to Swagger in about 2 minutes back at the beginning of 2012
When Ryder is healthy, Big Johnny will grant Ryder his rematch.

[Slyder]

The biggest problem with WWE is they've taken their eyes off what's brought them to the show. They've tried time, after time, after time, after time to expand into other media and failed in a giant blaze of infamy... XFL, the Times Square Restaurant, WWE films, Bodybuilding federations, TWO Senate campaigns ($100 million).... These are just a few examples of "ideas" WWE has had and lost billions on.

Meanwhile their on screen product (which brings the vast majority of their revenues) has suffered because they are:
A) Constantly changing writers
B) Hiring soap opera writers rather than people who know what they really need to do. They make it about the E rather than the guys themselves.
C) Vince doesn't have the territories to steal ideas from any more.
D) Poor character development
E) Poor merchandise development.

Daniel Bryan falls into that E category. Until Recently (~Rumble)... your hottest star and favorite of most of the 18-39 demographic (which is still the largest regardless of what WWE says about Kids, was HORRIBLY marketed on WWEShop. They've come out with some better stuff since they started the YES MOVEMENT and that probably better reaches a wider demographic of Daniel Bryan fans.

http://shop.wwe.com/Daniel-Bryan-%22Goat-Face%22-T-Shirt/W05863,default,pd.html?dwvar_W05863_color=Black&start=35&cgid=superstar-current-danielbryan

Was #1 on the DB list of merchandise... Great for kids, how many adults are really going to want that? Its why he wasn't moving merchandise but was still the by far most unanimous fan favorite on the show and gets a huge reaction everywhere. They went back to the drawing board and went basic with a lot of stuff and it seems to helped.

New #1 http://shop.wwe.com/Daniel-Bryan-%22Yes-Movement%22-Authentic-T-Shirt/W06882,default,pd.html?dwvar_W06882_color=Silver&start=1&cgid=superstar-current-danielbryan&srule=best_sellers

http://shop.wwe.com/Daniel-Bryan-%22YES%22-Lightweight-Full-Zip-Hoodie-Sweatshirt/W06985,default,pd.html?dwvar_W06985_color=Maroon&start=7&cgid=superstar-current-danielbryan&srule=best_sellers (debuted at Elimination Chamber 2014)

[M2]

The WWE finally signs Sting but have yet to put him on TV. I am a huge Sting Fan. They need to have him come in and challange the authority. Form a faction with Cena and the Shield. Have him make an appearance at Payback and help the Shield win.

Sting absolutely has not signed a deal with the WWE yet. While I appreciate that you're a Sting fan, we've seen him wrestle in the fairly recent past and it's not pretty. I wouldn't want him anywhere near a central storyline. Old guys are novelty acts. Sting vs. Rock? Sign me up. Sting vs. full-time performer? Not interested.

Also, keep Cena far, far away from the Shield. Nothing blunts a wrestler's career faster than being cast as Cena's buddy. He's a heat vampire. The Shield already is a faction. Much rather see Reigns, Rollins and Ambrose fighting against Cena for big stakes than fighting with him.

[kbrake]

I will say this about the WWE Network, I quit watching wrestling around Wrestlemania 14 or 15 and never got back into it. I would still occasionally watch old stuff on DVD's but never had an interest in the new stuff. Well I got WWE Network as soon as it came out and while I'm not back to a full time fan just having the network has me back into it on a casual level. The only thing I can think that would really help the current product would be a Cena heel turn.

[Slyder]

The only thing I can think that would really help the current product would be a Cena heel turn.

When Cena is the obstacle anyone he feuds with has to overcome, I would say he's already a heel... I mean
1) when was the last time he outright lost a feud?
2) he gets boo'd by at least 65% of the crowd every week.
3) he's been the same character for 10 years.
4) it took 3 people plus a kid singing to stop Cena in the cage match.

[dougdirt]

When Cena is the obstacle anyone he feuds with has to overcome, I would say he's already a heel... I mean

4) it took 3 people plus a kid singing to stop Cena in the cage match.

Yeah, but to be fair, it's hard to stop Cena when you can't see him.

[Caveat Emperor]

When Cena is the obstacle anyone he feuds with has to overcome, I would say he's already a heel... I mean
1) when was the last time he outright lost a feud?
2) he gets boo'd by at least 65% of the crowd every week.
3) he's been the same character for 10 years.
4) it took 3 people plus a kid singing to stop Cena in the cage match.

Cena is over with kids and middle aged women -- and, in those two demographics, he sells a crapload of merch (and it's been that way for years). He's also the "public face" of the WWE at all kinds of PR events and photo ops like overseas troop visits and Make-A-Wish events -- he's granted more "Make-A-Wish" visits than any other person currently participating in the program.

He's a mascot and a spokesperson for the promotion, and the WWE isn't going to change anything about him so long as they can mine public good will (and merchandise money) out of his character.

He is what he is -- a wrestler with an incredibly stale gimmick that cannot change. That's a problem, but at least Cena started out with something approaching an interesting gimmick. That's way more than can be said for people like Big E, Rusev, Adam Rose, Bo Dallas, etc. They're flooding the midcard with horrible/boring gimmicks right now.

[Slyder]

Cena is over with kids and middle aged women -- and, in those two demographics, he sells a crapload of merch (and it's been that way for years). He's also the "public face" of the WWE at all kinds of PR events and photo ops like overseas troop visits and Make-A-Wish events -- he's granted more "Make-A-Wish" visits than any other person currently participating in the program.

He's a mascot and a spokesperson for the promotion, and the WWE isn't going to change anything about him so long as they can mine public good will (and merchandise money) out of his character.

He is what he is -- a wrestler with an incredibly stale gimmick that cannot change. That's a problem, but at least Cena started out with something approaching an interesting gimmick. That's way more than can be said for people like Big E, Rusev, Adam Rose, Bo Dallas, etc. They're flooding the midcard with horrible/boring gimmicks right now.

The 18-39 male demographic is still WWE's largest base of revenues.

How is it good for future business to continue to have Cena crush everything that could possibly make WWE money? He isn't going to be around forever. The Nexus story is a perfect example of this. You have a story that is turning heads as this group is kicking everyone's butt and getting new eyes on the product. Come SummerSlam you would think WWE would want to legitimize these guys as legit and the future by having them beat a who's who of wwe (including Cena, Edge, Jericho, HOF Bret Hart). Nope Cena has to overcome and look at how long it took any of these guys (and I include DB in that) to mean a crap after. It is near criminal that Wade Barrett has not even had the Big Gold Belt almost 4 years later.

I actually like the Adam Rose gimmick, it's not one thats going to get him to the top, but he could be someone to have a little staying power if it gets over (think a PG version of Godfather as an example or Kaientai). Also it gets a bunch of other guys experience on TV even if its not in a major role, remember CM Punk's first appearance was as a mobster in Cena's enterogue at Mania 22.

Rusev is a showcase for Lana, I don't think they really care about Vladmir Shiek... I mean Alexander Drago... I mean Iron Kozlov... I mean Alexander Rusev, this is to get Lana on tv. Rusev's character has been done hundreds of times.

[M2]

Cena is over with kids and middle aged women -- and, in those two demographics, he sells a crapload of merch (and it's been that way for years). He's also the "public face" of the WWE at all kinds of PR events and photo ops like overseas troop visits and Make-A-Wish events -- he's granted more "Make-A-Wish" visits than any other person currently participating in the program.

He's a mascot and a spokesperson for the promotion, and the WWE isn't going to change anything about him so long as they can mine public good will (and merchandise money) out of his character.

He is what he is -- a wrestler with an incredibly stale gimmick that cannot change. That's a problem, but at least Cena started out with something approaching an interesting gimmick. That's way more than can be said for people like Big E, Rusev, Adam Rose, Bo Dallas, etc. They're flooding the midcard with horrible/boring gimmicks right now.

Don't be a lemon. I like the Rose gimmick. Don't know that it's headed anywhere, but it's potentially fun. He could kick audience participation up to 11. I also like Bo Dallas' delusional motivational speaker bit. Don't know where it leads him (maybe into the arms of his brother at some juncture), but it's a fine starting point. Rusev and Big E are dreadfully dull, however.

My kids always hated Cena. My daughter still gets angry if you bring up the night Rey Mysterio won the WWE title and Cena used his rematch clause to make Mysterio defend it later that show. He's also run down nearly every prominent female on the roster at one time or another.

Also, I think he'd sell more tickets and move more merchandise if he went dark side. He seems like a classic case of corporate paralysis to me. Fear of disruption is causing the WWE to forgo pursuing opportunity. Cena's on the back side of his career now regardless of how comfortable they are milking that cow. They ran into this exact same problem with Hogan in the early '90s and WCW ended up being the promotion that got the huge bounce from turning him heel.

On a separate note, was anybody here posting yesterday at mjh on the 411Mania site?

[Tom Servo]

Cena going all Hollywood Hogan is a veritable license to print money for at least 3 years, it is crazy to me WWE hasn't gone that route yet.

[cincrazy]

The crazy thing is, for as stale and boring as Cena is at times, he's an INCREDIBLY talented performer. He's good on the mic when given license to be creative, and he could easily step out of his current box and succeed doing something else. He's as hard a worker as anyone, and I think he would thrive with a heel turn. Unfortunately, as stated numerous times here, that's incredibly unlikely.

Bray Wyatt is so awesome, but he's working within a box the likes of Undertaker and Mankind and others didn't have to work in. Things have changed, and not for the better. Cena vs. Wyatt should be a great feud, but most of it has been a snooze-fest for my two cents, and that's a damn shame.

The only compelling storylines I can recall from the last few years are Punk vs. the Authority and Bryan vs. the Authority. Cm Punk vs Brock Lesnar had the potential to be DYNAMITE, but instead they fight one time, and then we get Punk vs. Ryback and Axel. AND PEOPLE WONDER WHY I LEFT.

The midcard, quite frankly, is horrible. For instance, Cesaro and Swagger had an interesting little feud going. And then, out of nowhere, RVD is thrown into the middle of it because they had nothing for him to do upon his return. How the hell does that make sense?

Sandow, a good in-ring worker and good on the mic, has been reduced to playing stupid comedy roles that nobody cares about. Big E and Rusev has no meaning to it. There's no animosity built up, no story-telling. Just Big E running to the ring and saving someone for no apparent reason. Is it too much to ask for them to cut a promo on each other?

Raw is 3 hours now, and in a way it feels like they have LESS time than they did before. They spend so much of those 3 hours talking about how to download apps, replaying segments from earlier in the show, and throwing stupid comedy segments against the wall, that most of the show is borderline unwatchable at times.

There's just no consistency. There's no excuse for the way things have been handled since Mania. It was their biggest wave of momentum in years, and instead of it continuing, we get Brock Lesnar (THE MAN WHO BROKE THE STREAK) absent from TV, Cesaro has been minimized, and younger guys are taking a seat on the bench while Evolution sits at the top of the card. Again.

Too bad they lack any meaningful competition. It would force them to actually get creative.

[Chip R]

Also, I think he'd sell more tickets and move more merchandise if he went dark side. He seems like a classic case of corporate paralysis to me. Fear of disruption is causing the WWE to forgo pursuing opportunity. Cena's on the back side of his career now regardless of how comfortable they are milking that cow. They ran into this exact same problem with Hogan in the early '90s and WCW ended up being the promotion that got the huge bounce from turning him heel.

Yeah, I'm not sure turning him heel would affect his merchandise sales. Kayfabe is so gone now that no one but the little kids are going to be upset with him turning heel.

[kbrake]

I'm not back watching enough WWE that I understand everything I'm reading here. Some of the names are completely lost on me, but I love that some of my favorite RedsZone posters are this tuned into wrestling. Most refreshing thread I've stumbled across here in awhile. First one to bring up Votto's contract gets a sharpshooter.

[Slyder]

I'm not back watching enough WWE that I understand everything I'm reading here. Some of the names are completely lost on me, but I love that some of my favorite RedsZone posters are this tuned into wrestling. Most refreshing thread I've stumbled across here in awhile. First one to bring up Votto's contract gets a sharpshooter.

I perfer the Crippler Crossface much simpler to slap someone in and much more painful than what the average fan calls the sharpshooter. Although I've seen some downright cruel combinations of moves. Think Walls of Jericho+Sharpshooter.

[Ravenlord]

before the network launched, for pure ring action, the stuff between Raw and Smackdown is the most interesting thing to me. AJ Lee vs Natalya a year or so ago on whatever the Saturday morning show was called was one of the better TV matches I've seen in the last three years.

consolidating all their developmental talent to NXT/FCW is foolish at best. in five more years, unless we're getting a 30 year-old from the indies, we're going to be left with a bunch of uninteresting gimmicks with no ability to improvise and who use the same set of 25-30 moves. . .at that point it won't matter who creative is, or what they're doing. Ring of Honor is increasingly where my hope of American wrestling being able to stay viable is going.

[dougdirt]

I'm not back watching enough WWE that I understand everything I'm reading here. Some of the names are completely lost on me, but I love that some of my favorite RedsZone posters are this tuned into wrestling. Most refreshing thread I've stumbled across here in awhile. First one to bring up Votto's contract gets a sharpshooter.

I haven't watched wrestling in the last 15 years. But my brother LOVES it. He even went to Wrestlemania this past year, so I pick up some things here and there from him.

He has the WWE Network, so I could ask him, but I guess I can ask here: Is it possible to just go back and watch every ECW show from the very beginning? That was when I was on top of things, fighting with an antenna to try and get channel 25 to come in so I could watch ECW through the fuzz. I may actually go back and watch it that way if possible (one winter perhaps).

[Ravenlord]

Is it possible to just go back and watch every ECW show from the very beginning?
yes. this is literally what both my friends who have it are doing; ECW from the beginning, and Nitro and Raw from 96 until the Invasion.

[kbrake]

The archives are what makes it so great. That being said if it is some real there is no way HBK wins at WM 12.

[19braves77]

WWE needs another moment like this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGsBRImD0po

This was so well done. I still get on the radios at work and whenever we have a new worker that hasn't been introduced to me yet I say the lines: " For those that do know me...."

Kinda breaks the ice.

[reds44]

This is a really good thread.

I was a huge wrestling fan growing up (as everyone my age was I think), stopped watching for many years, and then started watching pretty much every week during the Punk title run up until this last Wrestlemania. I haven't watched since, not because anything about it made me upset, but because it's just so boring now.

I have no idea why Ziggler has been relegated to a mid carder and he may not even be that at this point. Good on the mic, good in the ring, and yet he's not even on RAW every week. He's really liked by the fans too.

I think it's the creative team more than anything. Punk had freedom on the mic (because he demanded it) and was great because of it. His stretch as the ultimate heel was amazing and fun to watch every week.

3 hours for RAW is way too long, as well. It turns into 3 decent top of the hours and then just absolute filler between that.

I think social media/the internet hasn't happened the WWE either. Think of the Jericho/Ziggler match last year. Back in the day Ziggler's MITB briefcase for Jericho's job would have been HUGE...but everyone knew Jericho was leaving so it wasn't even a main event now.

[WMR]

Never would've pegged M2 as a big wrasslin' fan. :eek:

[WMR]

The Cena-iffication of the WWE turned me off... it's just lame now. If they went more "mature" again, I might watch casually.

[M2]

Never would've pegged M2 as a big wrasslin' fan. :eek:

I've been known to enjoy an Asylum film too.

[Brutus]

I'm late to this but I'll echo some of what has already been said. I haven't really paid very close attention to the WWE in the past 5 years, but on the occasion I do watch, the entertainment value simply isn't what it used to be. CE made this point, but there are almost no guys with engaging personalities on the mic and interesting to listen to, so the storylines themselves are not as appealing. And frankly, the age of the gimmick wrestler is gone and WWE is simply trying to copy the same two body types... the smallish, UFC type and the 6-8 300-pounder. A lot of people would just watch UFC if they wanted to see these types of guys fight.

I simply don't find any of the newer superstars fascinating. I tune in now usually only to see The Rock, Triple H on the rare occasion he's involved in something interesting, etc. Cena never tickled my fancy as I found his schtick annoying, but at least he has charisma. Most of the others now have the personality of a toothpick.

I realize it might not be a good idea to go completely back to the days of guys like Hillbilly Jim and Junkyard Dog -- cartoon type characters -- but there needs to be some sort of movement to more defined gimmicks instead of just a UFC fighter with a different name.

[Slyder]

I realize it might not be a good idea to go completely back to the days of guys like Hillbilly Jim and Junkyard Dog -- cartoon type characters -- but there needs to be some sort of movement to more defined gimmicks instead of just a UFC fighter with a different name.

You might like Adam Rose Gimmick. Look him up on the network or youtube. He just debut on the big show a couple weeks ago.

[Tom Servo]

Yeah WWE is slowly bringing back genuine characters, although the problem is that instead of developing them they tend to just leave them at that level until the fans get tired of it.

I'm also still kinda pissed about what they have done with Damien Sandow. I think his 'Intellectual Savior of the Masses' gimmick still had tread left on it's tires, but I could understand going in another direction. But WWE's direction was "massive several months long losing streak, complain for a week or two, start dressing up and being a comedy jobber for some reason" and it is a huge waste of talent.

[Brutus]

You might like Adam Rose Gimmick. Look him up on the network or youtube. He just debut on the big show a couple weeks ago.

Thanks! I'll be sure to check it out. I'd love nothing more than to have my interest piqued again with some new blood.

[KoryMac5]

This is a really good thread.

I was a huge wrestling fan growing up (as everyone my age was I think), stopped watching for many years, and then started watching pretty much every week during the Punk title run up until this last Wrestlemania. I haven't watched since, not because anything about it made me upset, but because it's just so boring now.

I have no idea why Ziggler has been relegated to a mid carder and he may not even be that at this point. Good on the mic, good in the ring, and yet he's not even on RAW every week. He's really liked by the fans too.

I think it's the creative team more than anything. Punk had freedom on the mic (because he demanded it) and was great because of it. His stretch as the ultimate heel was amazing and fun to watch every week.

3 hours for RAW is way too long, as well. It turns into 3 decent top of the hours and then just absolute filler between that.

I think social media/the internet hasn't happened the WWE either. Think of the Jericho/Ziggler match last year. Back in the day Ziggler's MITB briefcase for Jericho's job would have been HUGE...but everyone knew Jericho was leaving so it wasn't even a main event now.

Ziggler was buried because he spoke out several times about how some guys never get their due meanwhile Randy Orton gets chance after chance. Vince buried him for the criticism.

[Slyder]

This is a really good thread.
I have no idea why Ziggler has been relegated to a mid carder and he may not even be that at this point. Good on the mic, good in the ring, and yet he's not even on RAW every week. He's really liked by the fans too.

I always save this link for just such occasions. Start at ~4:40 mark. I swear Ziggler came about 20 years too late, he would have been GOLDEN during the Hogan Era or even the Attitude Era.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wF7jSRe1CDA

[cincrazy]

El Torito (a midget in a bull costume) has beaten Heath Slater and Drew McIntyre in one-on-one matches the last few weeks. He now has more wins on Raw this entire year than DAMIEN SANDOW.

That explains everything about the current product. Sandow is good on the mic, good in the ring, and could potentially have a bright future. But the company has done so much damage to his character the last several months, I'm not sure it can be repaired.

Same goes for Dolph Ziggler. He's an incredible worker, takes bumps like nobody else, gets a reaction from the crowd, is good on the mic... and what does he have to show for it? Nothing. Cena, Orton and Batista remain on top while guys like that can't catch a break.

When Austin, the Rock, and others left, the WWE didn't have a choice but to create new stars. Same thing in the 90s when Hogan, Hall, Nash and others went to WCW. I think it actually hurts the product that Cena and Orton have been around so long. They're not going anywhere, and because of that WWE won't move them from the very top of the card. Instead of new feuds and developing talent, we get Cena vs Orton for the 150th time.

Yay.

[Yachtzee]

Do they still have Piper's Pit? That was the best.

[cincrazy]

Do they still have Piper's Pit? That was the best.

Actually he just had a segment not too long ago with the Shield that was pretty good. They'll bring him out every few years it seems for a Piper's Pit, but his relationship with management isn't the best so he's not utilized the way that I wish he would be. Even at his age he still has tons to offer, especially in teaching the younger generation the art of a great promo. He's just a natural even to this day.

[cincrazy]

Payback is taking place tonight, and so far it doesn't look promising.

The event started with a pre-show match consisting of a biker midget vs a masked midget in a hair vs mask match. Also, Booker T found out before Kofi Kingston did that Kingston had a match tonight against Bo Dallas. And the Rhodes brothers are taking on Rybaxel in yet ANOTHER match thrown together at the last minute during this show.

Could the booking be any sloppier? They're destroying all of the momentum they had after a great WrestleMania. So frustrating to watch.

[Tom Servo]

I had rather low expectations going in given the somewhat weak card, but I thought Payback delivered as a strong show.


I can only shake my head at Cena winning a feud decisively again though. Rinse, lather, repeat.

[M2]

I had rather low expectations going in given the somewhat weak card, but I thought Payback delivered as a strong show.


I can only shake my head at Cena winning a feud decisively again though. Rinse, lather, repeat.

The talent is making the events work despite the creative flaws they're being handed. Cena's one note career continues. Fantastic match, but it leaves us exactly where? FWIW, I don't think Cena and Wyatt are done yet. And with Cena I've taken to using the phrase "Lather, rinse, prevail."

[Caveat Emperor]

The talent is making the events work despite the creative flaws they're being handed. Cena's one note career continues. Fantastic match, but it leaves us exactly where? FWIW, I don't think Cena and Wyatt are done yet. And with Cena I've taken to using the phrase "Lather, rinse, prevail."

The only way this feud works is if they play it off as Bray looking to break Cena's spirit by constant challenges and fights. But, it would require them to book some kind of "breaking point" for Cena that lets Wyatt "win" even if he's losing matches.

[Tom Servo]

I wonder if NXT Arrival also made everyone step their game up a bit. WWE may get a lot of things wrong, but turning NXT into what ECW was in 08-10 is one of the best decisions they have made.

[TRF]

WWE has no idea how to handle the Wyatt's. Bray is great on the mic, but he sometimes goes a little long. also, their feuds seem to drift. I thought a Shield/Wyatt's feud had promise, but HHH saw it as a way to get Evolution running again.

The way Ziggler has been handled is criminal. absolutely criminal.

sigh... whither CM Punk? The night they kept turning off his mic when in the ring with HHH was EPIC!. watched it again last night. When he called himself by his real name, and HHH by his.. that's what mic work is.

Dean Ambrose is the closest thing to the Joker WWE has ever had. I'm very glad they seem to have scrapped the breakup of the Shield. They are looking a lot like the Freebirds to me, but better on the mic.

Shamus and Cena need a heel turn, and if you have seen any episodes of Total Diva's you know that Cena is some kind of OCD neat freak. If they make his character a little more like he is in real life... more a shoot than work, then he could really get over as a heel.

Can someone please make the old Kane gimmick go away? It just doesn't work anymore.

I cannot wait until AJ Lee returns and feuds with the current diva's champ. Lee is a good worker for someone that weighs 85 pounds. Plus she's FANTASTIC on the mic, better than 90% of the entire roster. When she called aout every diva in the ring, saying they weren't worthy enough to lace her Chuck Taylors... maybe one of the best promo's of the last ten years by ANY worker in WWE.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cHv9jBoOZo

Also, I'd buy out Christopher Daniels and AJ Styles from their TNA contracts and let them run wild for a bit as a tag team in the WWE. Daniels has great mic skills, Styles one of the better workers, albeit not nearly as good on the mic.

[Caveat Emperor]

This is the promo you're talking about -- and yeah, it's completely epic:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hcKjU2Y3YI

[Tom Servo]

Really? I hated that promo.

[TRF]

loved it.. maybe the best promo ever. Though that AJ Lee one i posted was almost as good.

[Caveat Emperor]

Really? I hated that promo.

Nah, I love it when kayfabe cracks around the edges a little bit -- or outright shatters like when Vince Russo buried Hulk Hogan on live TV during Bash at the Beach in 2000.

Was it work? Depends on who you believe -- but the fact is that 99.9% of what was being said about Hogan (at the time) was real.

[Tom Servo]

I enjoy some breaks in kayfabe, Punk's original pipebomb promo was perfect. But that HHH/Punk promo felt like a poor attempt at replicating that to me.


I'm kinda split on Punk these days in general. I was always a huge fan, but I think his walkout was petty. I understand if he was burned out and needed time off, but it seems a lot of it had to do with his spot and not main eventing WrestleMania. Stone Cold said on his podcast from experience the best thing to do is get your ass back to work, and I think he was exactly right.

[KoryMac5]

Sandow as Lance Stephenson was some of the funniest stuff I have seen in awhile. Seems like his new shtick is to dress up as a character from the city the WWE is visiting and have some fun with the crowd. It's been working so far as Sandow is a guy folks love to hate.

[Tom Servo]

OMG, Rollins heel turn.

[TRF]

OMG, Rollins heel turn.

Yeah... Didn't see that coming. But Batista probably has to go promote GOTG

[Tom Servo]

I got the impression with Batista leaving that somebody would get a huge rub by joining Triple H and Orton, but after the last two PPV matches with no swerves I figured The Shield were going to continue on as a unit for the foreseeable future.

Any of the three would have made sense, but I love that it was Rollins, "the architect" of the Shield. He kept them together in storyline when WWE did the dumb breakup tease back in March, and now he's dismantled it. He's really upped his mic skills (I was a fan from his ROH days and rolled my eyes when some said he should have a mute gimmick, he was never great but always solid) and he's the best worker of the three.

[TRF]

Rollins wrap around the neck flying bulldog is the single best looking move in the business today.

As opposed to RVD's ridiculous step over the arm kick that ALWAYS MISSES. It must look great in person, because it sucks on TV.

I actually like Rollins on the mic, and he's gotten a lot better in the last few weeks where he has gotten more mic time. I think he's better than Orton who is a complete stiff. When Rollins tones it down, he's believable. Last night, he said something softly in the Shield promo, and it just was so natural. He's got a real future.

That said, the company has no top face right now except maybe Reigns. Bryan is hurt, Shamus is locked in a feud with Cesaro, and after that... nada.

[cincrazy]

Payback greatly exceeded my expectations. As someone already mentioned, the in-ring work by the wrestlers saves the butt of the creative team's lack of imagination.

The Rollins heel turn was awesome, only because NOBODY saw it coming. A classic swerve. If anyone was going to turn, I thought it would be Ambrose (as was hinted at back in March). Rollins is the best in-ring worker among the three (although I love them all) and his mic work gets better every week. This is a huge opportunity for him and I hope he runs with it. The timing of the turn was a little weird, I don't understand why they would turn him one night after a freaking war between the two teams, but I still think they picked the right guy to make the turn. In this day of instant news and access in the internet age, it's hard to surprise fans anymore. That turn last night surprised everyone.

As far as Punk is concerned, if he truly thinks he got shafted by the WWE, he's nuts. Multiple time world champ, held the title for 434 days, two-time Money in the Bank winner, faced the Undertaker at WrestleMania, the Rock at the Royal Rumble. I do believe he was mentally and physically burned out, and that's fair. He does deserve a break. But the manner in which he took it was inexcusable and unprofessional. Did Daniel Bryan pout about Batista winning the Rumble? No, he kept working his ass off. And guess what? He ended up main-eventing Mania.

[reds44]

loved it.. maybe the best promo ever. Though that AJ Lee one i posted was almost as good.
The heel promo about Lawler's heart attack was AMAZING.

[Tom Servo]

Huuuuuuge round of firings this morning, and I'm pretty bummed about it.


WWE has come to terms on the release of the following competitors as of today, June 12, 2014:

Drew McIntyre
Jinder Mahal
Aksana
Curt Hawkins
Theodore Long
Camacho
Brodus Clay
Evan Bourne
Yoshi Tatsu

McIntyre and Mahal are the most shocking considering how 3MB has been all over TV in the last few months and they are both still young and could seemingly at any time be plucked out of their comedy roles become rising heels. I'm also sad about Camacho because he never really had a chance but has impressed me in his limited time in WWE and NXT, plus he's the son of Haku, the most badass wrestler to ever live.

[Slyder]

Huuuuuuge round of firings this morning, and I'm pretty bummed about it.



McIntyre and Mahal are the most shocking considering how 3MB has been all over TV in the last few months and they are both still young and could seemingly at any time be plucked out of their comedy roles become rising heels. I'm also sad about Camacho because he never really had a chance but has impressed me in his limited time in WWE and NXT, plus he's the son of Haku, the most badass wrestler to ever live.

NO NOT TEDDY! He had so much he could still do... I mean you could... um... and you could still um... he could manage ummm... and he could be gm on... umm. Okay enough with the sarcasm, Teddy had a great run with WWE (I enjoyed watching him) but there's literally nothing left you could do with him. I'm sure if some time passes and they need to change it up Teddy would come back but I think Teddy at 66 is probably done as an on screen personality.

Camacho is a perfect example of everything wrong with WWE's creative. You basically get Orton over by having his dad make a string of appearances to help. You get the son of Haku, one of the baddest MFers ever, and you make him Mexican and make no attempt to use the fact he's Haku's son as a way to try and help. I'm saddened by the firing of Drew, I always liked Drew and thought he had a future... especially like you said how often they've been on tv.

I know people crap on TNA for signing every midcard cast off from WWE but I would use this opportunity to sign Drew, team him with Magnus and basically start over with Magnus and try to create some tag teams that could give the wolves some competition.

[Chip R]

This is what big corporations do. Their stock price plunges and they fire people.

[5TimeWSChamps]

I went to a RAW in Columbus a couple years back and McIntyre had the 2nd loudest pop of the night after Randy Orton

[M2]

I'm also sad about Camacho because he never really had a chance but has impressed me in his limited time in WWE and NXT, plus he's the son of Haku, the most badass wrestler to ever live.

On the bright side, maybe Haku will gouge out Vince's eye or something.


I know people crap on TNA for signing every midcard cast off from WWE but I would use this opportunity to sign Drew, team him with Magnus and basically start over with Magnus and try to create some tag teams that could give the wolves some competition.

Great idea. If anything TNA doesn't hire enough ex-WWE guys (Shelton Benjamin and John Morrison would have made gobs of sense). I'd sign Mahal too. He'd have been so over if the WWE just gave him an elephant entrance.

[Tom Servo]

Jinder and Drew are perfect examples of the weird booking style of WWE. For their first several months they were forced down the fans throats with victory after victory to little reaction, until finally WWE relented and reigned in their pushes a bit. And then over time both of them improved in the ring and on the mic as they got more comfortable and started to find ways to draw reactions, only to find themselves relegated to job duty for months and years. And then came the pink slip.

It's just a total waste. Start slow, build them up, and see what they can do. But instead it's overpush, slow it down, job them out, and release them.

[Ravenlord]

creative is useless. they're handed a Scottish Roman Reigns and book him as a jobber after having a terrible feud with Morrison (which imo was mostly due to Morrison being utterly unable to communicate or gauge a crowd). they give Damian Sandow a potentially great gig, and build him up wonderfully in vinettes, and then bury him because THEIR scripts fail to execute. if not for Reigns, Rollins, Ambrose, AJ Lee, and Wade Barrett, I wouldn't waste time on the current state of this product. the booking is even worse over the last three months than what even Vince Russo could [screw] up.

[cincrazy]

Money in the Bank is shaping up to be a great pay-per-view. You have young and rising talent in the actual ladder match for the title, and you will have the same in the ladder match for the briefcase. Reigns vs the Authority and Ambrose vs Rollins both pique my interest, and I don't think anyone can predict what will happen come June 29th. Hopefully that makes for a great show. This pay-per-view normally delivers so I would expect nothing less.

[Gallen5862]

Who is in the match for the money In The bank Briefcase?

[cincrazy]

Who is in the match for the money In The bank Briefcase?

The match for the championship includes Cena, Sheamus, Orton, Cesaro, Wyatt, Reigns and Del Rio. The ladder match for the briefcase will include Rollins and others not to be named as of yet. Guessing that field will include Ambrose, Barrett, Rusev, and others.

[Slyder]

You have young and rising talent in the actual ladder match for the title, and you will have the same in the ladder match for the briefcase.

Until WWE decides its stuck on stupid and gives Orton or Cena the belt... again. I hope they go with Bray.


Reigns vs the Authority and Ambrose vs Rollins both pique my interest, and I don't think anyone can predict what will happen come June 29th. Hopefully that makes for a great show. This pay-per-view normally delivers so I would expect nothing less.

HHH gets involved in the big match setting up Reigns vs HHH at Summer Slam. I don't know where they plan on going with Ambrose vs Rollins but I love this "Loose Cannon" Ambrose, he's got money written all over him.

Prediction on the 2nd briefcase (only Rollins is announced) RVD, Dolph (to help sell it), Barrett, Big E, Fan dan go, Stardust, Kane.

[Gallen5862]

When will the WWE Debut Sting?

[Slyder]

When will the WWE Debut Sting?

I wouldn't until closer to the Rumble. You're going to get a very small window with Sting and I would hope that a Mania match is what they're going for. Debuting him anytime before that runs very dangerous to over exposing a 50+ year old Sting.

[Gallen5862]

Maybe have Sting come out as the last number called for the battle Royal.

[Slyder]

Maybe have Sting come out as the last number called for the battle Royal.

It really depends on what the WWE course for Sting's Mania moment is. If they're still going to do that Taker v Sting, I wouldn't have him in the Rumble. You can get to Sting v Taker without him in the Rumble. But if this is Sting's "bucket" list then you could have him in it.

[cincrazy]

I think Sting's window has come and gone. I wouldn't be surprised to see him work with the company with the WWE Network, maybe a GM role on Raw or Smackdown, but I'm not sure about in-ring stuff. The guy is 55 or 56... the Ultimate Warrior died at 54. I'm not sure it's worth the risk to put someone at that age out in the ring with all the young talent they have today. I know several want to see a Sting vs. Taker match, but I don't share that desire. Both will be in their 50s by WrestleMania and their best days are long since gone. It would've been a great match a decade ago, but I think it would stink up the joint in 2014.

[cincrazy]

Until WWE decides its stuck on stupid and gives Orton or Cena the belt... again. I hope they go with Bray.



HHH gets involved in the big match setting up Reigns vs HHH at Summer Slam. I don't know where they plan on going with Ambrose vs Rollins but I love this "Loose Cannon" Ambrose, he's got money written all over him.

Prediction on the 2nd briefcase (only Rollins is announced) RVD, Dolph (to help sell it), Barrett, Big E, Fan dan go, Stardust, Kane.

I wouldn't mind the belt not being on a young guy, for this reason: Lesnar will be back at Summerslam, and will almost certainly be crowned champion. I don't want to see Cesaro or Wyatt or Reigns have a first reign with the belt about a month long. It would work better if Cena took it and was wiped out by Lesnar, giving Daniel Bryan or one of the young horses a chance to take him out at Night of Champions.

[Slyder]

I wouldn't mind the belt not being on a young guy, for this reason: Lesnar will be back at Summerslam, and will almost certainly be crowned champion. I don't want to see Cesaro or Wyatt or Reigns have a first reign with the belt about a month long. It would work better if Cena took it and was wiped out by Lesnar, giving Daniel Bryan or one of the young horses a chance to take him out at Night of Champions.

Orton/Cena epitomizes what is wrong with WWE. Batista fell victim to the same thing, although he at least spent some time on his back for Shield and tapping out for DB (more than Cena ever did for anyone under 34) at Mania. I don't know if Lesnar going for the belt will get the same reaction as he's been back and gone a few times.

Thoughts on Lesnar in the briefcase match and win it since you brought him up. Reigns (assuming you aren't going HHH/Reigns at SS) wins, here comes Lesnar, F5... 1... 2.. 2 3/4 kick out. Let Lesnar and Heyman sell it with their facials and reactions (which Heyman is a freaking MASTER), have Reigns have a short furry to get the crowd going, Heyman gets involved (ending in a Superman punch to his grill), another F5 1, 2, 3. Start Reigns chase with Lesnar because let's face it they're booking him to be the next (Cena) big babyface monster anyways why not use the same playbook? Let him chase until Summer Slam.


HHH successfully did as he always done... neutered Orton. I actually started to feel bad for Orton watching HHH (and Cena) just suck the every bit of energy out of his title reign. Problem is Orton absolutely BLOWS as a face, so he's stuck spinning his tires for a while.

I personally hope Bray Wyatt gets it and gets to carry it until Bryan comes back, that dude is about the exact opposite in everything from what Cena and Orton are. The only problem is who is a big enough face to fued with if you need someone to buy Bryan a little more time? They've butchered the feud with Cena, thank God that appears to FINALLY be done with less damage done than I expected.

[Slyder]

Prediction on the 2nd briefcase (only Rollins is announced) RVD, Dolph (to help sell it), Barrett, Big E, Fan dan go, Stardust, Kane.

Actual competitors:
Dean Ambrose
Seth Rollins
RVD
Dolph Ziggler
Kofi
Slyvester... I mean Jack Swagger
I've got some Baad News for you.

My money would be on Rollins to help drive home the fact why he left Shield to begin with. I don't see him carrying it long.

I would say that if not for the fact the belts were on the other one this might be the more memorable one.
If I were to rate likelyhood of each
Most: Rollins
2nd: Ambrose (theres freaking gold mines just waiting to be tapped)
3rd: Barrett
4th: Kofi (there to sell the match with his craziness)
5th: Dolph (I believe the WWE has permanently squashed him)
6th: Swagger (been there done that)
7th: RVD (I don't see WWE giving the belt to this part timer)

[TRF]

Ziggler should sue for malpractice. I love watching him work.

Ambrose might be the best I have ever seen on a mic. Better than Flair. Better than Jericho. Maybe better than Punk at the same point in their careers. I cannot wait until he's the eventual champion.

[Slyder]

Ziggler should sue for malpractice. I love watching him work.

Ambrose might be the best I have ever seen on a mic. Better than Flair. Better than Jericho. Maybe better than Punk at the same point in their careers. I cannot wait until he's the eventual champion.

Punk, Ziggler, and Ambrose (haven't had a chance to see Rollins enough, didn't watch NXT) I believe are the closest the WWE has to a true mega stars (if you doubt me watch Ziggler in interviews entertaining as hell). The difference between guys like Flair, Rock, Austin, etc and Cena is that Flair and company could talk people into the seats. You went to see those guys, you didn't go just to see the WWE and thats where Cena, Orton, even HHH (IMO) all fall short. In the time of a HHH promo, the Horsemen could get you exicted for 4 matches!

[Tom Servo]

It bugs me that they put Kofi and Swagger in the MITB match even though they just jobbed them out to Bo Dallas and Adam Rose, respectively. I really think WWE needs to use enhancement talent more because having guys you want to treat as legitimate threats lose matches to new guys in 3 minutes doesn't help anybody.

[Tom Servo]

Barrett apparently dislocated his shoulder at tonight's SD taping and will be out of Money in the Bank, which really sucks.

[5TimeWSChamps]

http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/ww218/MJB01333333/CenaSucks.jpg

[Tom Servo]

cena wins lol

[Slyder]

cena wins lol

Time for another sabbatical from Raw. At least until Punk, Bryan, Barrett, Lesnar comes back or they start doing something with Ziggler, Wyatts. I'm sorry Ambrose/Rollins isn't enough for me to stomach more Cena crap for 80% of the show.

[M2]

How doesn't the WWE realize that forcing Cena down our throats again counts as a heel win? It would be fine if Cena actually played it as a heel, or if they booked it as everybody but Cena gets that it's a heel win. Problem is they don't do that and just choose to beat the Cena horse to death.

[Tom Servo]

Even if the intent is to transition the title to Brock at Summerslam, Cena winning just seems like a swift kick to the nuts of every non-child fan everywhere after WrestleMania 30 was supposed to represent 'a new era'.

[KoryMac5]

I was pulling for Wyatt to win the championship, unfortunately Cena came through which will make RAW unbearable tonight. Wyatt as champ would have been great and would have given the masses something it desperately wants which is something new and fresh.

[Slyder]

Did anyone else throw up in their mouths last night as Michael Cole said that John Cena is the greatest WWE champ of all time? I missed that bit last night.

As I said earlier its time for another sabbatical from WWE and anything involving it. It sickens me that this crap (wrongfully) gets shoved down our throats and it is suggested that Cena is every bit the "legend" as Flair, Hogan, Austin, Rock, etc who were all champions during much, much, much, much better times for the business (WWE and as an industry) than this jhorts wearing joke.

[Tom Servo]

Did anyone else throw up in their mouths last night as Michael Cole said that John Cena is the greatest WWE champ of all time? I missed that bit last night.
I was just amused by the heavy handedness of it.

[cincrazy]

I'm not Cena's biggest fan, never will be. But I respect him. Look at it from a business perspective. You're the WWE, you had an unfortunate injury to your champ Daniel Bryan, and you're in a pickle. Are you going to put the belt on an unproven commodity during their most crucial time period in years? They need to hit a home run with network subscribers in the next few months. What if Reigns, Cesaro, or Wyatt falls on their face? I think all of those guys have AWESOME futures and I can't wait to see it unfold. But The Rock, Austin, HHH, and others worked their ways up. They were lower on the card, Intercontinental champs, King of the Ring, and took their place on the throne soon enough.

I don't like the fact that Cena has been on top for so long, but maybe we should praise him for it instead of rip the WWE over it constantly. He works harder than anyone else. He's more passionate than anyone else. Whether anyone likes it or not, he brings in more money than anyone else (just a fact). So you're tired of his character, I get it. I am too, he's stale. But the fact is, he's a sure thing. Brock vs. Roman Reigns will be a HOME RUN down the road. Why rush it now? Cena is simply a transitional champ that will lose to Lesnar as he begins his reign. And I'm fine with that.

Cena is not in the conversation with Hogan, Rock, Austin and others. But that's a VERY select group, and IMO he is in the tier just below them. Everyone wants to kiss CM Punk's butt, and he's an amazing performer, BUT HE QUIT AND WALKED OUT ON EVERYONE. He was on top and he couldn't handle it. But he's a God, and Cena is the whipping boy. I really don't get it.

If you hate Cena, then you must hate Votto. Both work harder than anyone else, take their craft seriously, and are very intense and passionate.

[Chip R]

The purge continues as Dolph Ziggler has been released.

[Tom Servo]

I think Cena is a great worker, I just think everything about his schtick is so played out that you inherently alienate half the fanbase when you continue to put him over everybody. I don't think he needs to be put out to pasture, but at a certain point the negatives outweigh the positives from a booking perspective. Bray Wyatt lost all momentum feuding with Cena. Sandow lost all momentum getting buried by Cena. Ryback lost all momentum feuding and getting buried by Cena. And that's just the last 12 months.

I agree with your point re: Punk. He wanted to be the guy, and then bailed because he got burned out from all of the work that went along with it. But while Cena is kind of a freak in that regard, I still find it kind of funny that WWE refuses to go all in on a guy who could potentially take that role from Cena. They had Ryback in 2012 over as any babyface in recent memory and they didn't pull the trigger. On the roster right now Roman Reigns, Cesaro, and Big E are all guys who had breakout 2013's and could conceivably be top babyfaces in that Cena role, but while WWE seems ready to pull the trigger on Reigns, it could end up just being another Ryback situation and we will still have Cena main eventing two years from now.

[Slyder]

The purge continues as Dolph Ziggler has been released.

Wow guess he pissed off the wrong guy one too many times. One less reason for me to watch WWE again. Think TNA would know what to do with a Dolph Ziggler/ Nick Nemeth? Where are you reading this?

[Tom Servo]

The purge continues as Dolph Ziggler has been released.
Not seeing this anywhere?


I know they released Emma today only to immediately reinstate her, all because of a Mike Leake-esque shoplifting incident.

[5TimeWSChamps]

Not seeing this either. Link please

[Slyder]

Look at it from a business perspective. You're the WWE, you had an unfortunate injury to your champ Daniel Bryan, and you're in a pickle. Are you going to put the belt on an unproven commodity during their most crucial time period in years? They need to hit a home run with network subscribers in the next few months.

You really think Cena's going to provide it? How's ratings been the last 7 years or so having Orton, Cena on top trading the belt around (with an outside appearance by a Punk, Edge, DB, ADR, etc). People don't want to see Cena with the belt! Bryan (and to a lesser extent Punk) got over because he was the anti Cena. Cena has been over exposed as the same guy for over a decade, he turns 18-39 year olds off your product, WWE has failed to make or even try to make a star. Look at the feud with Ryback, you get the hottest guy in the company with about every demographic and you feed him to Super Cena and where is he now? I understand Ryback is limited in a number of categories, but couldn't you ride that like you did the Warrior in the 90s or as WCW rode Goldberg? Give him the belt sell a crap ton of "Feed me More" shirts ride that monster for 6 months-year or however long just be ready to get off that horse when times up.

How was Cena/Sandow feud good for anyone? Look at the damage you might have inflicted to Bray Wyatt because 3 on 1 and Cena won almost every step along the way. Look at Nexus. WWE has tried EVERYTHING to make Cena a freaking legend and a majority of the fans resent the hell out of him for it. Don't get me wrong I like what he does for all the make a wish but he is in part a big reason why it isn't entertaining to me and many others.


What if Reigns, Cesaro, or Wyatt falls on their face? I think all of those guys have AWESOME futures and I can't wait to see it unfold. But The Rock, Austin, HHH, and others worked their ways up. They were lower on the card, Intercontinental champs, King of the Ring, and took their place on the throne soon enough.

I agree Wyatt pre Cena was almost there (him vs Wyatt at the Rumble was thing of beauty!), Reigns needs to do some more mic practice. I think with Heyman at his side you could very easily make Cesaro work here, even if it is only until Survivor Series. You have a natural door to Lesnar with the belt and I think the WWE fans want to cheer Cesaro and you would be making a very easy transition into a face role for Cesaro. Look at what Brock/Punk did for Punk, it could do the same thing for Cesaro. I would have gone another way with MITB for a number of reasons, it would be risky but you would create a lot more interest besides the same old crap we've seen for a decade.

Just for fun here's how I would gone about MITB. Orton much like Cena has been overexposed and has fallen between the cracks since HHH pretty much neutered him immediately by sucking up every bit of heat from SummerSlam on.

You have Kane working to help Orton (as you would expect given the story line) and at the end you do a repeat of the Evolution break up with HHH standing up clapping, thumbs up. Suddenly his facial expression changes and gives Kane the thumbs down (similar to Orton winning the Rumble). Kane "drops" Orton through (insert spot here) writing Orton off for a while to take a vacation (at least until Survivor Series, maybe even Rumble). HHH walks over to the down Orton saying "you were the face because I carried you. Then here comes Seth Rollins to cash in, of course Dean Ambrose comes out to try and stop him but HHH and Kane put him and Rollins through the announcer tables. Seth Rollins grabs the belts and wins.

You have made an instant credible heel/star in Rollins, gotten the fans even further behind and into Reigns and Ambrose.
Elevated someone new into the main event picture.
Given fans and Orton a break from each other.
And given a new guys a legit chance to make a difference.
Also sets a record for shortest MITB cash in.
You also elevate the angle getting the most reaction from the fans.

The first thing you see on Raw is Seth Rollins no HHH, no Steph, no Kane. "This is why I broke up my creation, this is what xx years of working my keyster off has led me to" along with a couple pot shots at Orton who is gone for a while. Seth Rollins is much like DB and Punk where he has his own built in fan base as Tyler Black in the independents, he was the first NXT world champ and let him do what he's done well and talk people into caring. His first feud would be elevating Dean Ambrose to the title picture. I think both are very much worthy and have proven they are capable of main eventing a ppv at this point. If you want Rollins to carry it for a while he can and have feuds with anyone (even a returning Orton in my booking) and it be fresh. He's still associated with HHH so if DB comes back you can quickly stick DB in there verses Rollins, you could do anyone and it not be overdone. Who is Cena really going to feud with? Brock? Orton for the 10,897,438 time? Sheamus for the 508,390 time? HHH for the 11,000,001 time? You HAVE to try and get new guys in there and Cena is a cash cow who doesn't need the belt to be featured, most of his prime fan base is in bed by 10 pm anyways.

At Summer Slam here would be my Main Event: Dean Ambrose vs Seth Rollins (c). Put some faith in the guys who have proven to be ready not only in their in ring ability but with the mic. They along with Reigns have had multiple promos that I'd stick right up there next to anyone short of Austin 3:16 at KOR, the Pipebomb, Hogan at Bash, and a few others. They NEED the belt to help get people interested and begin to build a legacy for themselves.

Cena still has a purpose as a co or semi main event, he just shouldn't be in the title picture until you are ready to make Roman Reigns the champ (Wrestlemania 31 IMO).


Whether anyone likes it or not, he brings in more money than anyone else (just a fact). So you're tired of his character, I get it. I am too, he's stale. But the fact is, he's a sure thing. Brock vs. Roman Reigns will be a HOME RUN down the road. Why rush it now? Cena is simply a transitional champ that will lose to Lesnar as he begins his reign. And I'm fine with that.

What happens after Summer Slam? Lesnar isn't going to do a full time schedule again. Are you going to have Cena win it back at the next pay per view? Then you're right back where you started. That's why I don't think Cena winning was right.


Cena is not in the conversation with Hogan, Rock, Austin and others. But that's a VERY select group, and IMO he is in the tier just below them. Everyone wants to kiss CM Punk's butt, and he's an amazing performer, BUT HE QUIT AND WALKED OUT ON EVERYONE. He was on top and he couldn't handle it. But he's a God, and Cena is the whipping boy. I really don't get it.

I think Cena's a couple tiers lower than those you mention. I don't think Cena gets near as far as he did now in a number of different eras. Attitude? He'd get chewed up and spat out for all his corny crap, but you would have had a lot of "good generals" to carry him... if he doesn't piss off the Kliq. The "New Generation" Era? He might have lasted, I do think he'd out draw Diesel and a few others as champ. Golden Age he'd might make tv but he wouldn't get anywhere. When you have as many talents who drew tons of people into the seats, Cena would have been lost in the shuffle. I fully admit I might be biased against Cena the character but I wouldn't put him anywhere near the top 20 in the history of WWWF/WWF/WWE.


If you hate Cena, then you must hate Votto. Both work harder than anyone else, take their craft seriously, and are very intense and passionate.

I don't think you can really compare the two, baseball is a sport. Wrestling (as Vince has reminded us for the last 25 years) is Entertainment like Soap Operas and because of this I don't really think you can compare the two. How long does most "hit shows" last? 5-6 years? Once in a blue moon you'll get a Simpsons or MASH but those are exceptions. Cena is going on about a decade now of almost 24x7 as THAT character, he needs to change something (please note I don't mean "turn heel" per se).

In closing, WWE's problem is that they've failed to make stars for 5+ years. Everytime you turn around they're just going back to "safe" and not even trying! Also I don't "hate" John Cena the person, he does a lot for some very good charities. It's just like tv shows that were kept going for too long, people are tired of seeing him.

[M2]

I'm not Cena's biggest fan, never will be. But I respect him. Look at it from a business perspective. You're the WWE, you had an unfortunate injury to your champ Daniel Bryan, and you're in a pickle. Are you going to put the belt on an unproven commodity during their most crucial time period in years? They need to hit a home run with network subscribers in the next few months. What if Reigns, Cesaro, or Wyatt falls on their face? I think all of those guys have AWESOME futures and I can't wait to see it unfold. But The Rock, Austin, HHH, and others worked their ways up. They were lower on the card, Intercontinental champs, King of the Ring, and took their place on the throne soon enough.

I don't like the fact that Cena has been on top for so long, but maybe we should praise him for it instead of rip the WWE over it constantly. He works harder than anyone else. He's more passionate than anyone else. Whether anyone likes it or not, he brings in more money than anyone else (just a fact). So you're tired of his character, I get it. I am too, he's stale. But the fact is, he's a sure thing. Brock vs. Roman Reigns will be a HOME RUN down the road. Why rush it now? Cena is simply a transitional champ that will lose to Lesnar as he begins his reign. And I'm fine with that.

But that's terrible storytelling. If we can figure out the plan is Cena>Brock>Reigns with it all culminating at Wrestlemania, then why watch in between? I'm willing to wait nine months for a baby. For a wrestling title switch? Not so much. And if in the here and now we're really excited about that end chapter, then that's the perfect case for not waiting nine months to get there. The Roman Reigns iron is hot. Strike it.

As for the classic "Is he ready?" speculation. The answer is always, "He is if you book him to be ready." The results are pre-determined so it's entirely up to the WWE if it wants to book a guy to look like a legitimate champ. Also, what helped kick the Attitude Era into high gear was hotshotting the belt around in a new pack of main eventers. In 1999 six guys swapped around the WWE title (Austin, Rock, Mankind, Undertaker, HHH and Big Show), plus Vince McMahon in a powerplay storyline. None of them held it long, obviously, but what it accomplished was establishing all of them as alphas. The upside was we never got that weariness factor with a champ and we never settled into complacency where we thought we knew what would happen next.

Roman Reigns in nine months does not justify John Cena today. I don't want to like it later. I want to like it now.

[cincrazy]

All you make good points regarding Cena. I don't disagree with any of you. I'm just saying I can understand why, from a business perspective, WWE made the move they did.

Also, if you really think Cena "buried" Ryback instead of Ryback just plain sucking, we disagree. The fact that they pushed Ryback that far to begin with is a joke.

[Slyder]

All you make good points regarding Cena. I don't disagree with any of you. I'm just saying I can understand why, from a business perspective, WWE made the move they did.

Also, if you really think Cena "buried" Ryback instead of Ryback just plain sucking, we disagree. The fact that they pushed Ryback that far to begin with is a joke.

But it got over. He got the reaction you want from a big time face. In an era where you struggle mightily in doing just that. You could have made some money on a short term title run until the fans got tired of him. That is until they turned him heel (long before the fans were ready) and gave him to Cena in that stupid feud.

[M2]

Also, if you really think Cena "buried" Ryback instead of Ryback just plain sucking, we disagree. The fact that they pushed Ryback that far to begin with is a joke.

I agree with you there. Ryback's push vastly exceeded his talent. Though he makes a strong case for Reigns, Wyatt and Cesaro all getting title turns. If you can book a guy who can't work a match that strong, then imagine what you can do with actual talent.

[Slyder]

Roman Reigns in nine months does not justify John Cena today. I don't want to like it later. I want to like it now.

This is kind of why I thought Cesaro would make some sense here. Cesaro until Summer Slam, Lesnar goes until Survivor Series/TLC/Rumble/whenever (also eliminates the need to put Cena in the Rumble), ???, Cena carries it to Mania vs Roman Reigns as winner of the 2015 Royal Rumble. No better way to crown the new king than at Mania. Worked for Austin, worked for Warrior, even worked for Cena (WM 21).

[Gallen5862]

Sting would be a good fresh face. They could use Sting against Cena as the Franchize of WCW against the Franchize of WWE. Sting could go against Randy Orton. It would be " The Icon Sting vs the Legend Killer Randy Orton. They could have Sting go against "The Nature Boy Ric Flair to continue their NWA/WCW feud.They could use Jerico returning to go against Sting . Sting could join a faction etc. Their are alot of storylines they could use Sting for.

[Chip R]

Not seeing this anywhere?


I know they released Emma today only to immediately reinstate her, all because of a Mike Leake-esque shoplifting incident.

Hmmm. A young friend of mine posted something about it on Facebook and the picture had what appeared to be a statement on his release. I should have known something was fishy when the link to the WWE page was about Emma's release. My newsletters never mentioned it either. Looks like I got worked. Apologies.

[Gallen5862]

WWE is giving a free week preview of the WWE network on WWE.com. They are not asking for credit card info. Just sign in as normal.

[Slyder]

WWE is giving a free week preview of the WWE network on WWE.com. They are not asking for credit card info. Just sign in as normal.

Wow did they ever crap the bed with the network it appears... They should have waited until they could at least get it going in Canada and/or UK along with the US.

[Slyder]

Sting would be a good fresh face. They could use Sting against Cena as the Franchize of WCW against the Franchize of WWE. Sting could go against Randy Orton. It would be " The Icon Sting vs the Legend Killer Randy Orton. They could have Sting go against "The Nature Boy Ric Flair to continue their NWA/WCW feud.They could use Jerico returning to go against Sting . Sting could join a faction etc. Their are alot of storylines they could use Sting for.

I have 0 desire to see Sting vs Cena. Much like I didn't want to see Cena v Rock 2. If you are going to bring Sting in you have to be very cautious. This isn't going to be the 90s Sting with the facepaint and body of marble. It is going to be a mid 50s Sting, and you have to adjust accordingly. I honestly still want to see Taker vs Sting at Mania (the attitude era fanboy in me), of the rest of the roster I think Wyatt vs Sting would make some sense (if you're going down the crow Sting road). I would be interested in seeing Sting vs Cesaro, maybe Sting vs Ambrose. This is all IMO.

[Tom Servo]

Sting is posting some stuff on Twitter about 7.14.14, so maybe Gallen will get his wish on the next RAW.


It could just be some video game thing though, like Ultimate Warrior a few years back.

[Gallen5862]

It makes sense for a debut of Sting now with the miz and Chris Jerico returning. They can use the free week of WWE.com to possably promote Sting. I just watched their special on Factions.

[cincrazy]

Raw has been dreadful the last few weeks. They seem to have no direction at all right now, making up things at the last second as they go along. Daniel Bryan's injury has really been a blow, and the CM Punk departure is really starting to catch up with them. Lesnar should return on Monday, but that's just a short-term boost. I feel like they're almost TOO focused on the Network, and the in-ring product is paying the price.

Ambrose and Reigns are both shining right now IMO, but I feel Rollins has been lost in the shuffle a bit as part of the Authority storyline. Cesaro has been minimized, Ziggler is doing nothing meaningful, and God help Damian Sandow. The Stardust character Cody Rhodes is playing does nothing for me and is trivial and ridiculous. I feel like the company had quite a bit of momentum going, and totally botched it. They seem to go in cycles of complete drek, and then outstanding shows, but there's so much inconsistency.

[Tom Servo]

Between Bryan and Barrett's injuries, it seems like WWE is cursed following WrestleMania 30.


Also can Kane please, please go away? I've always appreciate the big lug but between Corporate Kane and THE DEMON Kane constantly main eventing in 2014 despite no longer being over this is easily the worst he has ever been.

[Slyder]

Raw has been dreadful the last few weeks. They seem to have no direction at all right now, making up things at the last second as they go along. Daniel Bryan's injury has really been a blow, and the CM Punk departure is really starting to catch up with them. Lesnar should return on Monday, but that's just a short-term boost. I feel like they're almost TOO focused on the Network, and the in-ring product is paying the price.

This is why I turned Raw off for a few weeks and only turned it back to see if Sting would show up. They don't know how to do anything but put the belt on Cena and it shows. I thought Raw was alright, not anything great but wasn't the worst show of the year.


Ambrose and Reigns are both shining right now IMO, but I feel Rollins has been lost in the shuffle a bit as part of the Authority storyline. Cesaro has been minimized, Ziggler is doing nothing meaningful, and God help Damian Sandow. The Stardust character Cody Rhodes is playing does nothing for me and is trivial and ridiculous. I feel like the company had quite a bit of momentum going, and totally botched it. They seem to go in cycles of complete drek, and then outstanding shows, but there's so much inconsistency.

You are seeing why I would have bypassed all the rest of this bs and put the belt right on Rollins. WWE's history with MITB recently is WRETCHED. Its build them up, win MITB, lose every match they're a part of, cash in for SHOCK VALUE, flop as champ (if they get that far *see Sandow*). There's too much tied into the belt right now and Rollins is who got squeezed out.

If they would do something other than matches for build maybe Stardust would be working better. I kind of thought it was an intriguing way to change things. Since it worked so well for Dustin maybe lightning could strike twice.

Ziggler and Sandow are about a decade too late, I think they would have been mega stars by now in the Ruthless Aggression or the New Generation Era, maybe even made it to some recognition in the Attitude and Golden Eras. They have a lot of the qualities that made guys stars... They can talk and get people to care about them and the matches but they are suppressed by creative. They are the types WWE ought to go back to basic storytelling 101 with. There's PLENTY of talent there, until they "remember" how to make a star it will be disappointing.

Everything you say above here is why seeing John Cena with the belt makes me so sick. Cena is at the point where he should HBK circa (2002-2007) or Y2J, or RVD not the champ. He's a cash cow that for whatever reason they think they have to strap another rocket up his arse as if the last dozen didn't do enough. WWE seems stuck on stupid that all they do is feud for Cena, feud for Orton, feud for top non Cena/Orton star (DB/CM Punk/Reigns) and to heck with the rest of the show. Since they're in the same feud the WWE doesn't invest time in the rest. The one exception is Swagger/Rusev (I loved that back and forth between Lana and Dutch). I will admit I enjoyed Raw Monday, I thought it was at least passable (didn't watch the opening segment). All they do any more is a bunch of matches and having guys fight until people don't care about PPV or whatever they're calling it now.

[Slyder]

Sting is posting some stuff on Twitter about 7.14.14, so maybe Gallen will get his wish on the next RAW.


It could just be some video game thing though, like Ultimate Warrior a few years back.

Good Call btw.

[cincrazy]

This is why I turned Raw off for a few weeks and only turned it back to see if Sting would show up. They don't know how to do anything but put the belt on Cena and it shows. I thought Raw was alright, not anything great but wasn't the worst show of the year.



You are seeing why I would have bypassed all the rest of this bs and put the belt right on Rollins. WWE's history with MITB recently is WRETCHED. Its build them up, win MITB, lose every match they're a part of, cash in for SHOCK VALUE, flop as champ (if they get that far *see Sandow*). There's too much tied into the belt right now and Rollins is who got squeezed out.

If they would do something other than matches for build maybe Stardust would be working better. I kind of thought it was an intriguing way to change things. Since it worked so well for Dustin maybe lightning could strike twice.

Ziggler and Sandow are about a decade too late, I think they would have been mega stars by now in the Ruthless Aggression or the New Generation Era, maybe even made it to some recognition in the Attitude and Golden Eras. They have a lot of the qualities that made guys stars... They can talk and get people to care about them and the matches but they are suppressed by creative. They are the types WWE ought to go back to basic storytelling 101 with. There's PLENTY of talent there, until they "remember" how to make a star it will be disappointing.

Everything you say above here is why seeing John Cena with the belt makes me so sick. Cena is at the point where he should HBK circa (2002-2007) or Y2J, or RVD not the champ. He's a cash cow that for whatever reason they think they have to strap another rocket up his arse as if the last dozen didn't do enough. WWE seems stuck on stupid that all they do is feud for Cena, feud for Orton, feud for top non Cena/Orton star (DB/CM Punk/Reigns) and to heck with the rest of the show. Since they're in the same feud the WWE doesn't invest time in the rest. The one exception is Swagger/Rusev (I loved that back and forth between Lana and Dutch). I will admit I enjoyed Raw Monday, I thought it was at least passable (didn't watch the opening segment). All they do any more is a bunch of matches and having guys fight until people don't care about PPV or whatever they're calling it now.

I'm agreeing more and more with you and others when it comes to putting the belt on Cena at MITB. At first I wasn't bothered by it, but as time passes it makes the product so predictable and yawn-inducing. I've shifted my line of thinking, and you're right someone else should have walked out with the title. I agree about Reigns, but even if not Reigns, Cesaro or Wyatt would've been something fresh or new.

They just seem so averse to taking risks anymore. They have no competition and do as they damn well please. If they hit a bump in the road they cut a lot of great talent that never had a real shot and don't look back. It's a damn shame.

[Slyder]

Anyone watching tonight's show? Only thing wwe could do to make me turn it off is having Reigns be the one pinned by any of the other 3.

[cincrazy]

I'll be watching tonight. For as awful as Raw has been lately, it looks like a decent PPV. The championship match should be interesting, I'm pumped to see Jericho vs. Wyatt and especially Ambrose vs. Rollins. Hopefully things get back on track heading towards Summerslam.

[storer50]

Cincrazy, kind of messed up your night didn't they?

[Tom Servo]

At the very least Usos vs Wyatts was worth it.

[Slyder]

At the very least Usos vs Wyatts was worth it.

Paige vs AJ wasn't the usual divas match. It needed something I thought, like Paige going crazy after the match locking in that submission of hers and not letting go.

The Battle Royal was predictable: Ziggler eliminates Sheamus, internet fans rejoice, Miz runs in and wins, back stage laughs at internet.

The only question now is who does Cena pin here and is there an F5 in someone's future?

[cincrazy]

Cincrazy, kind of messed up your night didn't they?


Yes, yes indeed lol.

Overall it was a terrible pay per view. As mentioned, the Usos and Wyatts were amazing. One of the best tag matches I've seen in years. However, everything else fell tremendously flat. The world title match was predictable, Paige and AJ had several botches, even Jericho and Wyatt was surprisingly dull and slow with a horrible ending. And don't even get me started on the Miz getting another push, because I'll throw up.

Quite honestly, there was no need for this pay per view. The WWE simply has too many, but they'll never acknowledge that, for obvious reasons. For instance, Ambrose and Rollins was clearly pushed back for Summerslam, but what about those tuning in tonight? We got screwed. Jericho-Wyatt, Rusev-Swagger, I felt like all of these matches were just saving something for down the road. It was a placeholder PPV that truly had no business being a PPV. I've seen better Raws than that show, that's for sure.

[Tom Servo]

I didn't think it was a terrible show, but as you said, it was certainly meaningless.

[The DARK]

It's definitely the kind of thing that the new subscription model tries to let them get away with. It wasn't an awful show, but at no point other than the tag team match did it feel like an actual PPV. The Spanish announce table was barely dented.

It's a pity, because it was a pretty great card, and pretty unpredictable apart from Cena's easy win. Reasonable headliner, Highly anticipated grudge match, promising feud between one of the biggest draws and biggest heels, divas storyline with potential, and a Battle Royale to show off the lower half of the roster. Shame that most of the wrestling was meh.

[Gallen5862]

The attempted chokeslam by kane on Randy Orton should have counted as a tag. It is similar to a blind tag. WWE could not even get its rules straight.

[Tom Servo]

After years of fans clamoring for it, we may finally be getting a new Nation of Domination. :lol:

[Slyder]

After years of fans clamoring for it, we may finally be getting a new Nation of Domination. :lol:

#bringbackadub!

Which of the 3 could be Faaroq though... Is there someone who could lend that sort of credibility that he brought the original NoD though (Mark Henry if healthy)? Hopefully this can be as successful at elevating guys like the original did.

[cincrazy]

I haven't been a fan of Xavier Woods since he debuted, but man was he awesome in that promo last night. I think it can be a fresh start and something big for all three of those guys if WWE does this correctly. I thought Raw was solid last night. Paige's heel turn was awesome, the Miz and Ziggler had a good match with Ziggler winning, Lesnar is back in the picture and Heyman is gold on the mic. Hopefully this is the start of a good build towards Summerslam.

[M2]

After years of fans clamoring for it, we may finally be getting a new Nation of Domination. :lol:

I'm torn on this. I hate that the one idea wrestling promotions have for black guys is to make them an angry faction. TNA's doing it too.

On the other hand, at least it's a storyline. Beats being Rusev's squash of the week.

[Caveat Emperor]

I'm torn on this. I hate that the one idea wrestling promotions have for black guys is to make them an angry faction. TNA's doing it too.

On the other hand, at least it's a storyline. Beats being Rusev's squash of the week.

They can add the rapping black guy R Truth and really up the stereotype factor to 11.

[Chip R]

I'm torn on this. I hate that the one idea wrestling promotions have for black guys is to make them an angry faction. TNA's doing it too.

On the other hand, at least it's a storyline. Beats being Rusev's squash of the week.

It didn't hurt The Rock.

[Slyder]

It didn't hurt The Rock.

Or Godfather, Mark Henry, and D'Lo.

[Tom Servo]

Gotta give a decent amount of credit to the Nation flourishing to Vince Russo. He looked at each of them and took a trait of their personality/character and let them run with it.

Which reminds me, I get really annoyed when I see internet fans bash "stupid" NXT gimmicks like Emma, Adam Rose, the Vaudevillians, etc. For years the big complain amongst fans was that everyone was the same, all tatted up white guys getting called up from OVW with no personality. Now WWE has fostered a development system that encourages and promotes creativity amongst the talent to create and develop characters, and fans dump on it and call it stupid.

[Gallen5862]

http://www.aol.com/article/2014/07/25/yes-former-wwe-champ-catches-suspected-burglar/20937292/?icid=maing-grid7%7Chtmlws-main-bb%7Cdl11%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D507322

Yes! Former WWE champ catches suspected burglar

PHOENIX (AP) - A former WWE champion known as Daniel Bryan chased two burglary suspects he saw exiting his Phoenix home this week and subdued one until officers arrived, investigators said.

According to police, Bryan Danielson and his wife, Brianna, drove into the carport of their Arcadia home and saw a door to the house start to open.

That's when Danielson and his wife, a fellow former WWE star known as Brie Bella, ran inside to check on their dog, Josie.

"I saw the guys running out the back. I chased them. I caught one of them. I kept him until police got there," Danielson said.

Danielson and Cesar Sosa, 22, got into a struggle, but the former champ subdued him until officers arrived, Phoenix police Sgt. Tommy Thompson said. The second suspect got away.

The former champ said he didn't have to apply the "Yes! lock" - his signature move- to get Sosa to surrender, but he did put him in a rear naked choke hold.

"Unfortunately, he wasn't in very good shape," Danielson said. "So, it didn't take much."

Sosa was arrested and faces a burglary charge. It was not known if he had an attorney who could be reached for comment.

Thompson said Sosa also had a felony warrant for burglary and kidnapping in another case.

[Slyder]

That moment when these guys realized who's house this was...

7639

[Tom Servo]

WWE Problems more like TNA Problems

http://www.tmz.com/2014/07/27/impact-wrestling-cancelled-spike-tv-tna/

[Slyder]

WWE Problems more like TNA Problems

http://www.tmz.com/2014/07/27/impact-wrestling-cancelled-spike-tv-tna/

How long before WWE has a rise and fall of TNA dvd which it piles 90% of the failures at the feet of the Jarretts? And adds a TNA section to the network?

Not to mention DVD add ons for many people who starred for both!

[Tom Servo]

RIP Bo's streak :(

[cincrazy]

Things are getting nasty for the wrestling industry. TNA is in major trouble with their TV negotiations, and the WWE has an earnings call tomorrow, and it's not expected to be pretty. Another round of budget cuts are expected, and it could be even uglier than the last time. It's estimated by some that as much as 10% of the WWE workforce could be on the chopping block (I think that's wild speculation, but we'll see). Ricardo Rodriguez was released today, and that guy actually brought pretty good value to the company for a few years. Without him the Del Rio character would've been even more painfully bland.

[Slyder]

Things are getting nasty for the wrestling industry. TNA is in major trouble with their TV negotiations, and the WWE has an earnings call tomorrow, and it's not expected to be pretty. Another round of budget cuts are expected, and it could be even uglier than the last time. It's estimated by some that as much as 10% of the WWE workforce could be on the chopping block (I think that's wild speculation, but we'll see). Ricardo Rodriguez was released today, and that guy actually brought pretty good value to the company for a few years. Without him the Del Rio character would've been even more painfully bland.

I wish they'd start with Kevin Dunn, but we know its never the upper management who gets cut when they suck.

[Lewdog]

Can you believe I read in an article today that Vince bought WCW for only $1 million??? They are saying that he could buy TNA's video library for $500,000 and possibly TNA and their video library for $1-$2 million.

[Slyder]

Can you believe I read in an article today that Vince bought WCW for only $1 million??? They are saying that he could buy TNA's video library for $500,000 and possibly TNA and their video library for $1-$2 million.

Jericho said he would have tried to buy WCW for what Vince paid... I think it was on the R&F of wcw.

[Tom Servo]

I believe the exact number was $2.5 million dollars for WCW's name, video library, and other "intangible" assets, and another 2 mill or so in legal fees. Bischoff had a deal in place with outside investors to buy WCW for much, much more, but it fell through after Turner execs cancelled Nitro and Thunder. And so Vince bought what was left for pennies on the dollar.

[Slyder]

First line of cuts apparently started with Ricardo Rodriguez... The only reason I ever cared about ADR.

[Lewdog]

I believe the exact number was $2.5 million dollars for WCW's name, video library, and other "intangible" assets, and another 2 mill or so in legal fees. Bischoff had a deal in place with outside investors to buy WCW for much, much more, but it fell through after Turner execs cancelled Nitro and Thunder. And so Vince bought what was left for pennies on the dollar.

Sorry I got it mixed up where they were saying the buy of TNA should be around $1 million.


There is speculation that WWE could do so. WWE would be interested mainly in TNA’s library. They have valued all of the tapes to be around $500,000. everything else might lead them to go up to $1 million. If WWE wanted to buy TNA as a whole, they would compare it to the WCW buy in 2001, of which sold for around $2 million. Many wrestlers heard of it and felt that they could afford it and were sad they couldn’t get to it before Vince McMahon could.

http://www.inquisitr.com/1380946/wwe-news-how-much-would-wwe-pay-for-tna-wrestling-and-its-video-library/

[Chip R]

WWE Magazine will cease publication by WWE this fall.

http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/498011-another-major-update-for-potential-wwe-network-subscribers-in-canada

[Slyder]

WWE Magazine will cease publication by WWE this fall.

http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/498011-another-major-update-for-potential-wwe-network-subscribers-in-canada

Magazines are so 1980s. If someone wants to pay to do it have at it.

Also it talked about the network in Canada and I still think they bum rushed the network ridiculously foolishly. When so much of your fan base is in other countries (largely UK, Canada, and Mexico) you have to have something this important avaiable in at least one if not two of them to give yourself the flexibility in memberships to reach your stated goals.

[hebroncougar]

Edit

[Big Red Smokey]

Alberto Del Rio released

http://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/WWE_News_3/article_80053.shtml#.U-QgjfldXJY

[Tom Servo]

I liked Del Rio's run up until the loss at WrestleMania 27 to Edge, at which point he lost a lot of steam. I really dug his babyface turn at first but they just booked him as SuperCena going over guys like Sandow, Rhodes, Ziggler, etc, every single week on TV, multiple times. I think that hurt him a lot, as well as the initially intriguing but ultimately poorly thought out feud at WM with Swagger. I remember Ziggler and Del Rio having an amazing 20+ minute match on Main Event a few weeks before WrestleMania, that's how they should have been getting Del Rio over instead of xenophobia angles (though I certainly have enjoyed Zeb's run). And then the double turn with Ziggler, which was a classic case of having a good idea but going nowhere with it. Ziggler quickly fell back down the card and ADR was now back to the same dull character he had become before his babyface turn.

Anyway it will be interesting to find out what ADR ultimately did to get this immediate termination. The dirt sheets are saying he slapped a WWE social media employee but who knows.

[cincrazy]

I think Del Rio was misused and criminally underrated as a worker. He routinely put on fantastic matches, and WWE taking Rodriguez away from him killed what little momentum he had left. I agree with Tom, I was intrigued by his babyface turn and was actually really into it for a while, but it went nowhere. He was booked very poorly and it showed towards the end.

Apparently, according to Del Rio, he slapped someone for making a racist comment towards him. It seems like a classic case of he said-she said. WWE's twitter account took a shot at him, calling him unprofessional and that he has no one to blame but himself. So there's been some speculation that this is all a work. Hard to tell, but my gut says it's legit.

[Slyder]

I think Del Rio was misused and criminally underrated as a worker. He routinely put on fantastic matches, and WWE taking Rodriguez away from him killed what little momentum he had left. I agree with Tom, I was intrigued by his babyface turn and was actually really into it for a while, but it went nowhere. He was booked very poorly and it showed towards the end.

Apparently, according to Del Rio, he slapped someone for making a racist comment towards him. It seems like a classic case of he said-she said. WWE's twitter account took a shot at him, calling him unprofessional and that he has no one to blame but himself. So there's been some speculation that this is all a work. Hard to tell, but my gut says it's legit.

He becomes AWOL 2.0 and they have Major Rection reform the misfits?

[Tom Servo]

I'm getting pretty hype for Brock winning the WWE Title tonight.

[cincrazy]

I'm getting pretty hype for Brock winning the WWE Title tonight.

Agreed. I actually just rewatched their match from Extreme Rules 2012, and it was an awesome bout. I expect tonight to be more of the same, with the Beast walking out on top at the end. Lesnar is a special attraction and a monster, however long his title reign lasts will be beneficial to the company. I see a scenario where Cena takes the title back at Night of Champions, but Lesnar leaves him in such bad shape that Rollins cashes in and is the new champ.

I'm also excited for Rollins/Ambrose tonight, and to see where the McMahon Bella storyline evolves to. Should be a pretty good show overall.

[vottofan4life]

WWE loses Del Rio TNA loses Bubba Ray

[Tom Servo]

That was awesome. Cena is kill, all hail Bork.

https://38.media.tumblr.com/23e1274a124fb8e2076ed49c83d955a6/tumblr_naheknDnqO1srbyoyo1_500.png

[cincrazy]

I enjoyed the entire PPV, especially the title match. A lot of people had a problem with it, but I thought it was beautiful story-telling. And props to Cena for putting Lesnar over in a major way. Whoever does knock off Lesnar eventually is going to get a HUGE boost in credibility.

[Caveat Emperor]

I imagine now we'll build to Brock / Roman at Wrestlemania next summer.

I approve of this.

[redsfan30]

It is almost assured that Cena will take back the belt at Night of Champions next month. Brock fights three to four times a year at best and they will not leave the strap on him long term for that reason.

[cincrazy]

It is almost assured that Cena will take back the belt at Night of Champions next month. Brock fights three to four times a year at best and they will not leave the strap on him long term for that reason.

Agreed. I think Cena wins the belt in a way that makes Lesnar still look strong, and after the match Cena is so physically beat up that Rollins cashes in on him and becomes the new champ. I do think we could very well be heading towards a Reigns/Lesnar WrestleMania moment, however. There's speculation that Triple H favors that, while Vince is seeking The Rock vs. Brock. That would net huge buys, but not sure what it does LONG TERM for the company, which they really need to start thinking about.

Either way, I think the next several months should be exciting. Would love to see Rollins feud with Ambrose over the title if he does indeed end up cashing in soon.

[Slyder]

while Vince is seeking The Rock vs. Brock. That would net huge buys, but not sure what it does LONG TERM for the company, which they really need to start thinking about.

Either way, I think the next several months should be exciting. Would love to see Rollins feud with Ambrose over the title if he does indeed end up cashing in soon.

What Vinnie Mac wants, Vinnie Mac gets. What about at Rumble Lesnar v Reigns and the Rock involves himself to get Reigns the belt and start down the Mania road of Lesnar v Rock as one of those "big fight feel" matches.

[Gallen5862]

The rock and cena and Orton all have rematch clauses.

[cincrazy]

The rock and cena and Orton all have rematch clauses.

Technically I would assume Daniel Bryan does too, since he never actually lost the title. I would love to see a Bryan/Lesnar feud, but not sure they would go that route.

[cincrazy]

Gracious I could watch Ambrose v. Rollins every single day. The future of the company is in pretty damn good hands.

[Slyder]

Gracious I could watch Ambrose v. Rollins every single day. The future of the company is in pretty damn good hands.

As long as WWE doesn't screw the pooch like they've done with others.

[Caveat Emperor]

Gracious I could watch Ambrose v. Rollins every single day. The future of the company is in pretty damn good hands.

Old school match -- figures that Ambrose would head out to film a movie as soon as the angle really starts to pick up steam.

[cincrazy]

Old school match -- figures that Ambrose would head out to film a movie as soon as the angle really starts to pick up steam.

Agreed. The unfortunate reality of the business today.

And I think Ambrose and Rollins are so freaking good, the WWE couldn't mess this up if they tried. They've screwed plenty up over the years, but have really handled the Shield perfectly from the beginning. Hope that continues.

[Tom Servo]

As long as WWE doesn't screw the pooch like they've done with others.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srtnQCepfok

[Tom Servo]

Cesaro is Skip Schumaker now

http://38.media.tumblr.com/c3ba47d1004061ec658f82d8b65318a1/tumblr_ne2tx5vp5t1srbyoyo1_1280.png
http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Skip+Schumaker+Cincinnati+Reds+Photo+Day+6_yyWS9R2 wGl.jpg

[Tom Servo]

So Sting debuting was p. cool

[BluegrassRedleg]

So Sting debuting was p. cool

Sidenote: Sting's son, Steven, is playing tight end for Kentucky right now. His old man has been down in Lexington a couple of times this season. Good guy.

[cincrazy]

Apparently Daniel Bryan told the live crowd after the show that he's been medically cleared to return to the ring. That would be GREAT news for the WWE, as the product has become stale and their lack of depth has shown. The Survivor Series main event was fantastic, but the rest of the pay per view was pretty poor, and Raw tonight wasn't great either. Less bunny rabbits and dancers, and more action, please.

[M2]

Apparently Daniel Bryan told the live crowd after the show that he's been medically cleared to return to the ring. That would be GREAT news for the WWE, as the product has become stale and their lack of depth has shown. The Survivor Series main event was fantastic, but the rest of the pay per view was pretty poor, and Raw tonight wasn't great either. Less bunny rabbits and dancers, and more action, please.

And would it have killed them to explain why Sting choose Survivor Series to make his first ever appearance in the WWE? That seems like something they should have covered during their three-hour Monday broadcast.

[Big Red Smokey]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxHRJnZsinQ

[Joseph]

I'm not a big wrestling guy anymore, but I did read an article about the above mentioned CM Punk interview. Obviously one never knows when someone is setting up a massive work these days, but all in all the read sounds fairly legit and not at all like he has any interest in the WWE anymore.

He basically rips the medical aspect of the WWE to shreds.

[Big Red Smokey]

https://twitter.com/Ryback22/status/538068948278083584

[Big Red Smokey]

WWE isn't really saying much here...

http://www.cagesideseats.com/2014/11/27/7301145/wwe-issues-statement-response-cm-punk-medical

[Slyder]

3 sides to every story... Their side, Punk's side, and the truth.

[Tom Servo]

3 sides to every story... Their side, Punk's side, and the truth.
Pretty much.


I don't necessarily disagree with a number of things he said, but I think the burying of Ryback was pretty petty. I also think Punk is a huge hypocrite in several regards, but I've felt that for a while.

[Tom Servo]

So Punk is going to UFC. Unless he gets some tomato cans that leads to maybe one high profile fight, I think this ends badly for him.

[M2]

Here's a question -

Is 2014 the worst year ever for the WWE? The company has lost tens of millions, its PPVs generally have been terrible, the weekly product is difficult to watch, Vince McMahon essentially buried his roster in a podcast with Steve Austin, its feeder organization (NXT) is putting on better shows, live audiences consistently rebel against WWE storylines. I keep thinking the WWE has hit bottom and it keeps going lower.

[Tom Servo]

Here's a question -

Is 2014 the worst year ever for the WWE? The company has lost tens of millions, its PPVs generally have been terrible, the weekly product is difficult to watch, Vince McMahon essentially buried his roster in a podcast with Steve Austin, its feeder organization (NXT) is putting on better shows, live audiences consistently rebel against WWE storylines. I keep thinking the WWE has hit bottom and it keeps going lower.
Yeah this year has pretty much been an unmitigated disaster, which is a huge turn considering how bright everything looked coming out of WrestleMania.

I would actually love to see the fans rebel en mass one more time at the Royal Rumble where we get absentee champion Lesnar vs. Cena for the 50th time now. Vince is just set in his damn ways. Cena vs. Rock. Cena vs. Orton. Cena vs. Lesnar.

[Slyder]

I couldn't help but laugh as Cena said men dont make excuses for losses. Should we review how Cena's lost matches (besides Summer Slam)?:laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Caveat Emperor]

Here's a question -

Is 2014 the worst year ever for the WWE? The company has lost tens of millions, its PPVs generally have been terrible, the weekly product is difficult to watch, Vince McMahon essentially buried his roster in a podcast with Steve Austin, its feeder organization (NXT) is putting on better shows, live audiences consistently rebel against WWE storylines. I keep thinking the WWE has hit bottom and it keeps going lower.

They picked a terrible time to launch their "Network" -- the product is beyond stale, and nothing they're doing constitutes "appointment" television these days.

They're in desperate need of a major shake up in the writing / creative department.

[dougdirt]

They picked a terrible time to launch their "Network" -- the product is beyond stale, and nothing they're doing constitutes "appointment" television these days.

They're in desperate need of a major shake up in the writing / creative department.

Not that I have watched wrestling in 15 years, but would better writing/creative development really matter? If you don't fit the type to be champion to Vince, you aren't getting any play. That's why the same guys, over and over and over, even though they are well past their primes, keep getting the stories, the shots, the spotlight. It's been that way since 1990 (that's really about as far back as I have a good memory of). There's been one constant in that time. Vince.

[Caveat Emperor]

Not that I have watched wrestling in 15 years, but would better writing/creative development really matter? If you don't fit the type to be champion to Vince, you aren't getting any play. That's why the same guys, over and over and over, even though they are well past their primes, keep getting the stories, the shots, the spotlight. It's been that way since 1990 (that's really about as far back as I have a good memory of). There's been one constant in that time. Vince.

Vince has always been attracted to the tall, statuesque body-builder types when it comes to his champions, but it's not like that has prevented guys like Foley, Jericho, Benoit or others from receiving major pushes up the card. There's definitely a bias to overcome, but part of what helps guys overcome that bias is good writing and being put it into good situations where they can talk up a feud or tell a great story in the ring with a well-worked match.

There is definitely a staleness at the top right now. It's not unlike the situation the then-WWF found itself in back in the mid-90s before WCW solved their problem by raiding the major stars and clearing out room for the next-generation to come in and establish themselves. But the staleness is exacerbated by the repetitive storylines and feuds and a general lack of any understanding of how to build compelling characters.

[Tom Servo]

There is definitely a staleness at the top right now. It's not unlike the situation the then-WWF found itself in back in the mid-90s before WCW solved their problem by raiding the major stars and clearing out room for the next-generation to come in and establish themselves. But the staleness is exacerbated by the repetitive storylines and feuds and a general lack of any understanding of how to build compelling characters.
It really begins and ends with Cena. Vince always used to have an A1 plan. It was Warrior with Hogan, it was Rock with Austin. Their have been plenty of guys who COULD potentially usurp Cena, but WWE chooses to sabotage them instead andor turn them heel (CM Punk, Ryback come to mind in recent years).

From 05-10 WWE was blessed with an embarrassment of riches in terms of main eventers (Cena, Batista, Triple H, Michaels, Undertaker, Orton, Edge, Jeff Hardy, etc) and managed to build almost 0 new stars during that time. Now all of them are gone besides Cena and Orton. Guys like The Miz, Kofi Kingston, Jack Swagger, Drew McInyre, Alberto Del Rio, etc, should currently be where those guys were given their years on the roster, instead they're in the same spot or not with the company anymore.

[Caveat Emperor]

The WWE's basic problem is this -- if you want to watch quasi-professionals acting like there isn't a script to something that's clearly scripted, you can go watch any number of "reality" television shows where the writing is flat-out better.

I said it earlier in this thread, and it's still true: the WWE is at it's best when it's a fun-house mirror style reflection of modern society. It was wholesome and American "eat your vitamins, say your prayers, respect your elders" back in the cold-war era 80s, when we all hated the commies and watched shows like G.I. Joe in the morning. It was kinda-trashy and really funny "Godfather's Ho Train, Bra & Panties Fights, and Steve Austin chugging beer" during the Jerry Springer / Beavis & Butt-Head / early-South Park era 90s. Now? Can you really say that the WWE, in any way, reflects any aspect of current society in a unique or interesting way?

No one involved in WWE creative right now has any idea where it's current niche is, and the product on TV reflects that. It's bland and uninteresting characters doing bland and uninteresting things on a bland and uninteresting television show. They might have gotten away with that 20 years ago, but now there is simply too much competition in their general field.

[Tom Servo]

The funny thing is that it seems to me that WWE realizes that elaborate, plot-heavy, and character driven series like Breaking Bad, Mad Men, Sons of Anarchy (ugh), etc, are what our culture eats up currently so they'll start planting seeds for a big story...and then the next week it's forgotten about and we get Hornswoggle dancing around in a cow outfit instead.

[Caveat Emperor]

The funny thing is that it seems to me that WWE realizes that elaborate, plot-heavy, and character driven series like Breaking Bad, Mad Men, Sons of Anarchy (ugh), etc, are what our culture eats up currently so they'll start planting seeds for a big story...and then the next week it's forgotten about and we get Hornswoggle dancing around in a cow outfit instead.

Bottom line: the company is too risk-averse when it comes to the on-camera product.

Behind the scenes and on the business side of things? Completely different story.

[Caveat Emperor]

Sounds like the Rumble went over like a lead balloon last night.

Didn't buy it, but heard from a friend who was there that the crowd crapped all over Roman Reigns winning.

[redsfan30]

Indeed, it wasn't pretty. Daniel Bryan was eliminated early and the crowd crapped on the rest of the Rumble from that point.

Live crowds hijacking events when something doesn't involve Daniel Bryan is getting a little tiresome. Problem is there is nothing WWE can do about it short of having Bryan in every main event ever. Roman Reigns is one of the top faces in the company right now but he was treated like a despicable heal. WWE can't be happy about it.

[Caveat Emperor]

Indeed, it wasn't pretty. Daniel Bryan was eliminated early and the crowd crapped on the rest of the Rumble from that point.

Live crowds hijacking events when something doesn't involve Daniel Bryan is getting a little tiresome. Problem is there is nothing WWE can do about it short of having Bryan in every main event ever. Roman Reigns is one of the top faces in the company right now but he was treated like a despicable heal. WWE can't be happy about it.

The time off really hurt Reigns' momentum. I don't think he's nearly as over as WWE management thinks he is -- he's been passed pretty clearly by Ambrose and Ziggler as a face, IMO. The risk they run now is the fanbase turning on him because they sense he's being oversold and force-fed to them.

[WMR]

The time off really hurt Reigns' momentum. I don't think he's nearly as over as WWE management thinks he is -- he's been passed pretty clearly by Ambrose and Ziggler as a face, IMO. The risk they run now is the fanbase turning on him because they sense he's being oversold and force-fed to them.

Reigns is lame. Poor mic skills and the spear/superman punch have been done to death.

Even The Rock couldn't get him over.

[Tom Servo]

I actually like Roman, but he's clearly not ready yet for this position. But that's never stopped WWE before.

[M2]

The time off really hurt Reigns' momentum. I don't think he's nearly as over as WWE management thinks he is -- he's been passed pretty clearly by Ambrose and Ziggler as a face, IMO. The risk they run now is the fanbase turning on him because they sense he's being oversold and force-fed to them.

The crazy thing is you could see this coming. He's been laying eggs for the past month and the geniuses who run the WWE booked the Rumble for Philly, the city that booed Santa Claus, the spiritual home of ECW.

Love that #CancelWWENetwork was #1 on Twitter and that fans staged an impromptu demonstration outside the Rumble after the event.

[Caveat Emperor]

The crazy thing is you could see this coming. He's been laying eggs for the past month and the geniuses who run the WWE booked the Rumble for Philly, the city that booed Santa Claus, the spiritual home of ECW.

Love that #CancelWWENetwork was #1 on Twitter and that fans staged an impromptu demonstration outside the Rumble after the event.

I wrote this on another board that I post on, but the Philly thing could be a blessing for Reigns' career.

If I was running creative, I'd have Reigns lead off Raw next week and just bury the crowd for booing him at the most important moment of his career. Bury the WWE Universe, bury the people who demonstrated after his win, bury the people threatening to cancel the WWE Network because he won. Then, I'd have him go ultra-heel and bury the Rock for showing up and trying to steal the spotlight at his moment of triumph.

Reigns isn't comfortable at all on the mic, and he's yet to connect with the crowd via a good catchphrase or call-response line as a face. I think going hard-heel in the build to Wrestlemania would help him tremendously and allow him to get more comfortable carrying segments and interacting with the crowd. Plus, Brock will generate natural face heat off this by being the indifferent killing machine. Heyman is a pros-pro, and he'll know how to work this so that Lesner is the de-facto face in the matchup.

I know WWE wants Reigns as a top-card face, but he's kind of in the same position as the Rock was early in his career. The crowd is in on the fact that he's being forced down their throats a little bit and they're rejecting it. A heel turn lets them do what they already want to do (boo him), and it sets up better heat on a face turn down the road.

[Gallen5862]

There are several options to rescue the main event at wrestlemania. The Rock could demand that he get his rematch from his loss to cena a few wrestlemanias ago. He never got his guarenteed rematch. He could tell reins we are family but this is buisness. The other way is to have Lesnar lose the title before Wrestlemanis so someone else gets added. The third way is that Rollins uses his right as Mr Money in the bak to get added. Another way is to add Daniel Bryan to the match with the excuse he never lost his title but was injured. They used that excuse for Bad news Barrett to get his IC title back,

[KoryMac5]

While the actual Rumble was awful, the triple threat match between Lesnar, Cena, and Rollins stole the show. I could definitely get behind a Rollins/Bryan feud to boost the ratings.

[cincrazy]

I feel really bad for Roman Reigns. He's a respectful guy, hard-working, and is clearly loaded with talent. He will be more than fine in the end. But the company put him in an impossible spot Sunday night. I thought he actually handled himself pretty well last night on the special edition of Raw, but a lot of that credit should go to Paul Heyman as well for knowing how to build a feud.

If WWE's smart, they should have Heyman turn on Lesnar at Mania, and pair him with Reigns. Reigns would be a monster heel, yet with Heyman by his side it would also appeal to the "smarks" in the crowd and would get him some much needed love and respect.

Most of Roman's problems aren't his own. Brock Lesnar has never been great on the mic, but WWE never asked him to be. He's just been a bad-ass killing machine. They should take the same road with Reigns, instead they have him reciting corny jokes and trying to be John Cena, when he clearly isn't.

Also, the WWE Network surpassed 1 million subscribers and stock shot up nearly 20% today, so despite Philly's reaction to the Rumble, things are looking much better for the company. Do I think Reigns is ready? Not quite. But I'm not going to kill them for it. For years people have been screaming about how there need to be more new faces, not just Cena and Orton. Now WWE is taking a shot with a young guy with good ring skills and a great look, and everyone is pissed about that. They can't win no matter what they do with some people. Reigns will be a SUPERSTAR in time. I think Sunday night will be a blessing in disguise for him when all is said and done, if the company handles the backlash well (as they normally do).

[M2]

Heyman is a pros-pro, and he'll know how to work this so that Lesner is the de-facto face in the matchup.

I'd argue Lesnar already is the de facto face in that matchup. He'd have to sharpen a puppy and stab Betty White with it in order to turn the crowd against him.

[Slyder]

I feel really bad for Roman Reigns. He's a respectful guy, hard-working, and is clearly loaded with talent. He will be more than fine in the end. But the company put him in an impossible spot Sunday night. I thought he actually handled himself pretty well last night on the special edition of Raw, but a lot of that credit should go to Paul Heyman as well for knowing how to build a feud.

If WWE's smart, they should have Heyman turn on Lesnar at Mania, and pair him with Reigns. Reigns would be a monster heel, yet with Heyman by his side it would also appeal to the "smarks" in the crowd and would get him some much needed love and respect.

Most of Roman's problems aren't his own. Brock Lesnar has never been great on the mic, but WWE never asked him to be. He's just been a bad-ass killing machine. They should take the same road with Reigns, instead they have him reciting corny jokes and trying to be John Cena, when he clearly isn't.

Also, the WWE Network surpassed 1 million subscribers and stock shot up nearly 20% today, so despite Philly's reaction to the Rumble, things are looking much better for the company. Do I think Reigns is ready? Not quite. But I'm not going to kill them for it. For years people have been screaming about how there need to be more new faces, not just Cena and Orton. Now WWE is taking a shot with a young guy with good ring skills and a great look, and everyone is pissed about that. They can't win no matter what they do with some people. Reigns will be a SUPERSTAR in time. I think Sunday night will be a blessing in disguise for him when all is said and done, if the company handles the backlash well (as they normally do).

I do too. WWE is giving the fans what they wanted last year (new stars) and they're complaining because their "every man" can't win. Look at the position the company has put the Shield trio, look at Wyatt, Daniel Bryan should NOT have been on tv UNTIL Sunday Night when his music hit. He JUST came back from multiple surgeries. He may not be in truly 100% shape yet. You can't correct a wrong already done. Thats the same crap they just boo'd Batista for LAST YEAR.

The problem is WWE tried to force this ending. Big Show and Kane at this point have NO business anywhere in that point of the match. If they're going to boo at least setup a moment where 5-10 years down the road you look back and look at this rumble like people look at Evolution. Have 4 of the "future" there staring it out. Wyatt, Reigns, Ambrose, and one Barrett, Rusev, or Ryback. At least that way when people grow up (if that's possible) they might realize hey WWE showed us something on this night.

[Chip R]

The fans may not have liked this ending but they are engaged. At least it's not another boring Cena or Orton title reign.

[Slyder]

The fans may not have liked this ending but they are engaged. At least it's not another boring Cena or Orton title reign.

That is what I really expected/feared WWE to do if they didn't go with Reigns. You know he's gotta be back soon and there is story there for an immediate feud with Rollins.

[Caveat Emperor]

I feel really bad for Roman Reigns. He's a respectful guy, hard-working, and is clearly loaded with talent. He will be more than fine in the end. But the company put him in an impossible spot Sunday night. I thought he actually handled himself pretty well last night on the special edition of Raw, but a lot of that credit should go to Paul Heyman as well for knowing how to build a feud.

If WWE's smart, they should have Heyman turn on Lesnar at Mania, and pair him with Reigns. Reigns would be a monster heel, yet with Heyman by his side it would also appeal to the "smarks" in the crowd and would get him some much needed love and respect.

Most of Roman's problems aren't his own. Brock Lesnar has never been great on the mic, but WWE never asked him to be. He's just been a bad-ass killing machine. They should take the same road with Reigns, instead they have him reciting corny jokes and trying to be John Cena, when he clearly isn't.

They need to give him a gimmick he feels comfortable with. Crapping all over the crowd, past superstars, etc. is easy money for most wrestlers -- Kurt Angle made a living on it for the majority of his first few years in the WWE (when his mic skills were pretty raw). The "silent killer" thing works for Brock, but I think that there's a rare amount of credibility he brings to the role based on the fact that he's an actual UFC champion and former NCAA champion. He's beaten people who were actually trying to hurt him in a ring/octagon. Every fan in the building knows that if Brock decided to work stiff and shoot a match, he'd cripple just about anyone else on the WWE's roster.

You put Reigns in the same role, and I think there's a cap on how much heat he can generate. Your "best case" scenario is Goldberg IMO (and considering the anti-heat Ryback generated when they tried to book him like Goldberg, I'd say that's a really unlikely outcome), but I think there's a real danger that you end up with mid-90s Kane, and that isn't someone who can carry a feature storyline (especially as a face).

[cincrazy]

I do too. WWE is giving the fans what they wanted last year (new stars) and they're complaining because their "every man" can't win. Look at the position the company has put the Shield trio, look at Wyatt, Daniel Bryan should NOT have been on tv UNTIL Sunday Night when his music hit. He JUST came back from multiple surgeries. He may not be in truly 100% shape yet. You can't correct a wrong already done. Thats the same crap they just boo'd Batista for LAST YEAR.

The problem is WWE tried to force this ending. Big Show and Kane at this point have NO business anywhere in that point of the match. If they're going to boo at least setup a moment where 5-10 years down the road you look back and look at this rumble like people look at Evolution. Have 4 of the "future" there staring it out. Wyatt, Reigns, Ambrose, and one Barrett, Rusev, or Ryback. At least that way when people grow up (if that's possible) they might realize hey WWE showed us something on this night.

Agreed 100%. Kane and Big Show being in the final 3 was what really sent the crowd over the edge I think. Obviously there was no chance either man would walk out the winner. It totally killed the suspense.

Before the Rumble, I was hoping "The Authority" would find some way to sneak Seth Rollins into the match, so we could have a final 3 of Rollins, Reigns, and Ambrose. How hard would the crowd have popped for that, even with no Bryan? Sure, they still probably would've been upset with a Reigns win, but I have to believe it would've been drastically lessened.

- - - Updated - - -


They need to give him a gimmick he feels comfortable with. Crapping all over the crowd, past superstars, etc. is easy money for most wrestlers -- Kurt Angle made a living on it for the majority of his first few years in the WWE (when his mic skills were pretty raw). The "silent killer" thing works for Brock, but I think that there's a rare amount of credibility he brings to the role based on the fact that he's an actual UFC champion and former NCAA champion. He's beaten people who were actually trying to hurt him in a ring/octagon. Every fan in the building knows that if Brock decided to work stiff and shoot a match, he'd cripple just about anyone else on the WWE's roster.

You put Reigns in the same role, and I think there's a cap on how much heat he can generate. Your "best case" scenario is Goldberg IMO (and considering the anti-heat Ryback generated when they tried to book him like Goldberg, I'd say that's a really unlikely outcome), but I think there's a real danger that you end up with mid-90s Kane, and that isn't someone who can carry a feature storyline (especially as a face).

I can agree with that. I think a good comp for him would be Undertaker with his biker gimmick. He could handle the mic for sure, but was short and sweet and was really just an ass kicker. Roman doesn't have to be The Rock to succeed in promos, he just needs to find his own niche. And I think he will in time.

[Caveat Emperor]

The only reason the Underbiker gimmick worked was because everyone knew he was the Undertaker.

[Slyder]

Agreed 100%. Kane and Big Show being in the final 4 (Rusev was still in there) was what really sent the crowd over the edge I think. Obviously there was no chance either man would walk out the winner. It totally killed the suspense.

Before the Rumble, I was hoping "The Authority" would find some way to sneak Seth Rollins into the match, so we could have a final 3 of Rollins, Reigns, and Ambrose. How hard would the crowd have popped for that, even with no Bryan? Sure, they still probably would've been upset with a Reigns win, but I have to believe it would've been drastically lessened.

You didn't need to force Rollins, outside of eating the pinfall (Cena should have if you were going him vs Rusev at Mania), he was used EXACTLY as he should have been. He added SO MUCH to that title match that it would have been too much IMO. I wasn't sure what WWE was going to do with him after Shield... Ambrose will be fine, he's got the highest floor and a real high ceiling, Reigns is more green but he has the highest ceiling IMO. Remember CM Punk and Daniel Bryan when they first started with WWE, it took them time to really find themselves and connect.

My biggest complaint with Big Show and Kane was them uncerimoniously dumping guys like they're trash... How many guys did they just pick up and throw out? Ambrose, Ziggler, Wyatt (about the only guy in the Rumble to get a good shine from it), Ryback, Swagger... By Big Show and Kane.. Thats not making a new star.




I can agree with that. I think a good comp for him would be Undertaker with his biker gimmick. He could handle the mic for sure, but was short and sweet and was really just an ass kicker. Roman doesn't have to be The Rock to succeed in promos, he just needs to find his own niche. And I think he will in time.

Roman needs to find his own road. A guy with as much potential as he has needs to break the mold because he's not goign to fit any. He needs to find an extension of himself. He's not great on the mic right, he may never be. He doesn't have to look very far for guys who's first "big push" got crapped on. Just look at Rocky Maivia from his first Survivor Series.

[Tom Servo]

It really is insane how WWE is literally scripting stupid Cena promos and making Roman memorize and recite them. The best line that Reigns has had during his big push was last summer around the time of Payback when he said something like "When I'm here, your damn right Cena sucks" which was totally off the cuff and made him sound like a cool babyface who doesn't trip over himself to praise almighty Cena. But it's been all downhill since then, and WWE has only themselves to blame.

Also while I fear for guys like Ziggler, I am not terribly concerned about the future for Rollins and Ambrose. I think they are both sure things at this point. Rollins is clearly Triple H (or perhaps Paul Levesque in this instance) handpicked heel and once he busts through ala Edge cashing in MITB for the first time, he's gonna be cemented as a top guy. And while WWE totally blew the opportunity to do something big with Ambrose this fall when he was massively over, I think Vince is high on him because they give him a ton of TV time and backstage segments and he can pull off the comedy that Vince likes as well.

[cincrazy]

I'm really hoping this new era isn't just a repeat of the Cena era. Cena was THE GUY. Period. Maybe that worked in Hogan's day, but it doesn't anymore. Through the Attitude Era and Ruthless Aggression Eras you had HBK, HHH, Taker, Angle, Austin, Rock, Foley, Edge, Guerrero, Batista, Benoit. There was so much depth to the roster. I feel like Cena has been protected so much that the depth of previous eras never really had a chance to be built up. Sure Orton has had a bunch of success and Punk had his moment, but neither was ever truly on Superman's level. Vince simply CAN NOT do that with Roman Reigns. If they do he'll be as polarizing as Cena, if not more so.

[Tom Servo]

The funny thing too is that WWE's business really started to tail off once they got away from having such a large amount of main event talent and relied more and more on Cena. Cena's merch may still move but damn man, look at the ratings and buyrates since 2008. Every other sector in America has recovered from the financial crisis yet WWE still can't get people to fork over $9.99, which can probably be blamed on the product itself.

[Caveat Emperor]

The funny thing too is that WWE's business really started to tail off once they got away from having such a large amount of main event talent and relied more and more on Cena. Cena's merch may still move but damn man, look at the ratings and buyrates since 2008. Every other sector in America has recovered from the financial crisis yet WWE still can't get people to fork over $9.99, which can probably be blamed on the product itself.

The problem of staleness is pervasive in the entire organization. The top of the card is stale, they can't get get decent or entertaining midcard feuds going, the tag-team division is a complete joke, and that doesn't even touch how awful the "divas" stuff still is.

But, it goes beyond that too. The on-air production has lost a ton of the feeling of spontaneity and "live television" that it had for years during the late 90s. There's fewer backstage stuff than ever before (and what backstage stuff they do have is almost always on the same generic "Triple HHH / Stephanie Locker Room" set) -- and gone are the days where it felt like you were watching breaking news coverage from some weird alternate world of fake fights. Everything has become plodding and slow v. "don't flip to Nitro or you'll miss something cool." The announcing has also become grating and awful as well -- everyone sounds like an infomercial salesman, the "characters" of the announcers are forced, and Michael Cole sounds like a D-list ESPN broadcaster compared to how Jim Ross would hype a match back in the day.

The entire product feels committee-produced -- designed to be safe as opposed to experimental/edgy/interesting. I don't know if that's a result of Vince becoming more hands-off, or if it's a reflection of the business culture we live in now (where a wrong-step leads to twitter boycotts and sponsors dropping programs), but the entire company is in desperate need of someone being OK with a few on-air failures offered up as sacrifices to the long-term good.

[Slyder]

I'm really hoping this new era isn't just a repeat of the Cena era. Cena was THE GUY. Period. Maybe that worked in Hogan's day, but it doesn't anymore. Through the Attitude Era and Ruthless Aggression Eras you had HBK, HHH, Taker, Angle, Austin, Rock, Foley, Edge, Guerrero, Batista, Benoit. There was so much depth to the roster. I feel like Cena has been protected so much that the depth of previous eras never really had a chance to be built up. Sure Orton has had a bunch of success and Punk had his moment, but neither was ever truly on Superman's level. Vince simply CAN NOT do that with Roman Reigns. If they do he'll be as polarizing as Cena, if not more so.

It only worked in Hogan's day because you had a complete card of guys who had something to give. You had your Jake Roberts, Ted DiBiase, Randy Savage, Roddy Piper. Even had your big monsters like Big John Stud, Andre. You had tag teams like the Rock N Roll Express, The Midnight Rockers, the Harts, LOD. You also had your "kiddie" acts like Brutus the Barber Beefcake, Rick Martel. You had a ridiculous talent pool because Vince could "buy" from where ever he needed and give them their spot.

I would argue Roman would be even more polarizing. He hasn't even gotten to the top to become stale. Roman I think is more suited for reaching female demographic than anything, but they are trying to fit a square peg in a round hole because Vince (or HHH) sees him as the "new Cena".

[Slyder]

The funny thing too is that WWE's business really started to tail off once they got away from having such a large amount of main event talent and relied more and more on Cena. Cena's merch may still move but damn man, look at the ratings and buyrates since 2008. Every other sector in America has recovered from the financial crisis yet WWE still can't get people to fork over $9.99, which can probably be blamed on the product itself.

Their lead demographic is lower middle class families without a lot to spend. So they save that to (largely) go to the events and splurge there. They also turn off many of what should be their most important demographic (males 18-39) with the stupid PG crap and poor booking/writing. They think the kids can carry them, it hasn't and it won't if they don't do more to reach the parents who control those purse strings.

This is a product 10-15 years too late. WWE is getting the older diehards to order the network and there isn't enough of them to carry it. They rushed the release of the network and that hurt their quality. They didn't have the network lined up for UK and Canada before the US release. Those are 2 of the (if not THE) top markets for your product. What took so long?

[cincrazy]

The problem of staleness is pervasive in the entire organization. The top of the card is stale, they can't get get decent or entertaining midcard feuds going, the tag-team division is a complete joke, and that doesn't even touch how awful the "divas" stuff still is.

But, it goes beyond that too. The on-air production has lost a ton of the feeling of spontaneity and "live television" that it had for years during the late 90s. There's fewer backstage stuff than ever before (and what backstage stuff they do have is almost always on the same generic "Triple HHH / Stephanie Locker Room" set) -- and gone are the days where it felt like you were watching breaking news coverage from some weird alternate world of fake fights. Everything has become plodding and slow v. "don't flip to Nitro or you'll miss something cool." The announcing has also become grating and awful as well -- everyone sounds like an infomercial salesman, the "characters" of the announcers are forced, and Michael Cole sounds like a D-list ESPN broadcaster compared to how Jim Ross would hype a match back in the day.

The entire product feels committee-produced -- designed to be safe as opposed to experimental/edgy/interesting. I don't know if that's a result of Vince becoming more hands-off, or if it's a reflection of the business culture we live in now (where a wrong-step leads to twitter boycotts and sponsors dropping programs), but the entire company is in desperate need of someone being OK with a few on-air failures offered up as sacrifices to the long-term good.

I agree with pretty much all of what you've said. I will say this for Michael Cole: I've been watching a lot of old PPVs on the network lately, and when Cole first started doing big PPVs in the late 90s, he was pretty good. Not on Jim Ross's level (few, if any, are) but could certainly hold his own. Fast forward to today, and he is just terrible.

I really think a lot of that is driven from the top, and I've heard JR insinuate as much on Twitter. One guy ripped Cole and JR came to his defense, saying it's a different ball-game now, and JR himself wouldn't be revered the way he is today if he came of age as an announcer in today's age.

The lack of competition hurts all fans. Vince told Austin on his podcast "Well, we do have competition," and he rattled off sporting events and tv shows, but that just isn't the same. The day WCW died was the day the business started spiraling downwards.

From 2003-2012 I only watched WrestleMania (some years not even that, and I only tuned in for Taker and his streak) and totally tuned the product out. With Punk's emergence and The Rock coming back I got sucked back in as a week-to-week fan, but still can turn off Raw for 2 hours at a time and not miss a single thing. That is a BIG problem. What incentive do people have to tune in when 2 hours of the program is devoted to bunny rabbits and midgets?

[Tom Servo]

but still can turn off Raw for 2 hours at a time and not miss a single thing. That is a BIG problem. What incentive do people have to tune in when 2 hours of the program is devoted to bunny rabbits and midgets?
That really is the biggest problem. I don't consider 2002 or 2003 to have been particularly good years content wise for WWE (I think 2000 was probably the company's peak in terms of quality), but I would have rather been punched in the face than miss any of RAW. These days the show is so paint by the numbers, so homogenized, that you could skip weeks and miss nothing of note. Same opening interview, same lengthy 6 man tag match, same everything.

[cincrazy]

I think we only need to look at NXT to see what the future of the company could conceivably be like. I respect Vince McMahon for all he's done for the business, but I think after he's gone, Triple H will take the business in a new and better direction.

The in-ring talent really isn't that poor right now. Ziggler, Rollins, Ambrose, Bryan, Cesaro, Cody Rhodes, and others can flat-out go inside the ropes. The character development is just simply awful and either holds guys back or kills them off before they ever get a real shot to make it.

[Caveat Emperor]

I think we only need to look at NXT to see what the future of the company could conceivably be like. I respect Vince McMahon for all he's done for the business, but I think after he's gone, Triple H will take the business in a new and better direction.

The in-ring talent really isn't that poor right now. Ziggler, Rollins, Ambrose, Bryan, Cesaro, Cody Rhodes, and others can flat-out go inside the ropes. The character development is just simply awful and either holds guys back or kills them off before they ever get a real shot to make it.

The in-ring development of NXT has been off the charts.

They need to hire some better acting coaches, though.

[Slyder]

Controversy creates cash - Eric Bischoff....

http://www.givemesport.com/541618-vince-mcmahon-says-wwe-network-has-reached-1-million-subscribers?autoplay=on&utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Paid-Social&utm_campaign=541618

Do you believe Vince? Wall Street seem to as WWE stock soared after the news.

[Chip R]

Controversy creates cash - Eric Bischoff....

http://www.givemesport.com/541618-vince-mcmahon-says-wwe-network-has-reached-1-million-subscribers?autoplay=on&utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Paid-Social&utm_campaign=541618

Do you believe Vince? Wall Street seem to as WWE stock soared after the news.

Then it went down 2.2% in after hours trading and lost 27 of the 38 cents it gained that day.

HHH is going to make a "huge announcement" on Raw on Monday.

http://www.wrestling-online.com/wwe/triple-h-to-make-huge-announcement-on-raw-this-monday/

[M2]

It really is insane how WWE is literally scripting stupid Cena promos and making Roman memorize and recite them. The best line that Reigns has had during his big push was last summer around the time of Payback when he said something like "When I'm here, your damn right Cena sucks" which was totally off the cuff and made him sound like a cool babyface who doesn't trip over himself to praise almighty Cena. But it's been all downhill since then, and WWE has only themselves to blame.

One thing I don't think the WWE gets is that in order to build new top faces, those guys have to take on and go over John Cena. Punk did it. Bryan did. Sheamus didn't (at least as a face). Ryback turned heel against Cena. Orton always played the heel to Cena's face. If they want a Reigns era, then he needs to eradicate the Cena era.

[cincrazy]

One thing I don't think the WWE gets is that in order to build new top faces, those guys have to take on and go over John Cena. Punk did it. Bryan did. Sheamus didn't (at least as a face). Ryback turned heel against Cena. Orton always played the heel to Cena's face. If they want a Reigns era, then he needs to eradicate the Cena era.

Excellent point. It'd be a heck of a way to get Reigns over with the crowd. Summerslam seems like a heck of a time for that matchup, but I imagine WWE just won't do that, not until Cena literally has nothing left in the tank and it's too late to capitalize on for Reigns.

[Gallen5862]

Here is a way for WWE to get out of this mess. Rollins could be bragging about him being the future of the company. Cena could say prove it. Everyone else had to risk their position in the company or spot as number one contender. HHH could say Cena has a great point. He could say that if Cena beats Rusev for the United States Championship then Cena would face Rollins in a ladder match for the Money in the Bank briefcase. The authority could interfere to help Rollins. Sting could interfere again and have Cena win the briefcase. This then infuriates the authority, Sting keeps messing up their plans. Cena with the Money in theBank contract opens up more options.

[M2]

If Cena ever got his hands on another MITB briefcase I would stop watching the WWE forever. It was terrible the first time he won a MITB match and they used it to turn Punk instead of Cena. It was terrible last year when he won the WWE title in a MITB match. His own hometown hated it.

Plus, Rollins is the absolute right guy to be holding that briefcase. He's been nothing but excellent in the WWE.

[Gallen5862]

If Cena ever got his hands on another MITB briefcase I would stop watching the WWE forever. It was terrible the first time he won a MITB match and they used it to turn Punk instead of Cena. It was terrible last year when he won the WWE title in a MITB match. His own hometown hated it.

Plus, Rollins is the absolute right guy to be holding that briefcase. He's been nothing but excellent in the WWE.

The question is does the nude pic scandal hurt him though. Remember when mr Kennedy lost his MITB because of problems.

[Tom Servo]

Nah, I don't think a girlfriend leaking some pics of Rollins is going to derail his status as HHH's chosen guy at all.

[Slyder]

If Cena ever got his hands on another MITB briefcase I would stop watching the WWE forever. It was terrible the first time he won a MITB match and they used it to turn Punk instead of Cena. It was terrible last year when he won the WWE title in a MITB match. His own hometown hated it.

Plus, Rollins is the absolute right guy to be holding that briefcase. He's been nothing but excellent in the WWE.

+1. Cena in no way should be in the title picture. Rollins I agree has been absolute gold since breaking up the Shield.

[Caveat Emperor]

Here is a way for WWE to get out of this mess. Rollins could be bragging about him being the future of the company. Cena could say prove it. Everyone else had to risk their position in the company or spot as number one contender. HHH could say Cena has a great point. He could say that if Cena beats Rusev for the United States Championship then Cena would face Rollins in a ladder match for the Money in the Bank briefcase. The authority could interfere to help Rollins. Sting could interfere again and have Cena win the briefcase. This then infuriates the authority, Sting keeps messing up their plans. Cena with the Money in theBank contract opens up more options.

Cena is right where he needs to be -- peripherally feuding with a character equally as cartoony as himself. There is nothing interesting left to mine from Cena in his current gimmick. His heat is 50% Hogan, 50% X-Pac right now, so there's minimal chance he can give anyone a heel rub, and the WWE has shown time and time again that their default position when booking him is "Cena overcomes all odds to succeed," so the further he stays away from the WWE Championship the better.

As far as Rollins goes, I actually can see this scandal hurting him a bit. If you listened to HHH's interview with Steve Austin on his podcast last week, HHH (speaking as Paul the WWE suit) said part of the consideration with not putting someone like Chyna in the WWE "Hall of Fame" is that they don't want their younger audiences googling her and finding her various photo shoots and sex tapes. I'm not saying this is up there with that, but I think there's some consideration given as to what is out there on the interwebs that might come up when you search.

I don't know if it will actually factor into anything, but it's something HHH acknowledged.

[Chip R]

As far as Rollins goes, I actually can see this scandal hurting him a bit. If you listened to HHH's interview with Steve Austin on his podcast last week, HHH (speaking as Paul the WWE suit) said part of the consideration with not putting someone like Chyna in the WWE "Hall of Fame" is that they don't want their younger audiences googling her and finding her various photo shoots and sex tapes. I'm not saying this is up there with that, but I think there's some consideration given as to what is out there on the interwebs that might come up when you search.

I don't know if it will actually factor into anything, but it's something HHH acknowledged.

There's a difference between a nude photo that cropped up on the internet and intentionally making porn movies.

[Slyder]

Cena is right where he needs to be -- peripherally feuding with a character equally as cartoony as himself. There is nothing interesting left to mine from Cena in his current gimmick. His heat is 50% Hogan, 50% X-Pac right now, so there's minimal chance he can give anyone a heel rub, and the WWE has shown time and time again that their default position when booking him is "Cena overcomes all odds to succeed," so the further he stays away from the WWE Championship the better.

I know it won't happen because :CenaWinsLOL: but I wish Rusev actually beats him throughout this feud. Ending Rusev's streak with a list of names including Cena, Henry, Big Show, Swagger, etc could mean something to someone else.


As far as Rollins goes, I actually can see this scandal hurting him a bit. If you listened to HHH's interview with Steve Austin on his podcast last week, HHH (speaking as Paul the WWE suit) said part of the consideration with not putting someone like Chyna in the WWE "Hall of Fame" is that they don't want their younger audiences googling her and finding her various photo shoots and sex tapes. I'm not saying this is up there with that, but I think there's some consideration given as to what is out there on the interwebs that might come up when you search.

HHH reasoning on Chyna was stupid. He's also the guy that imitated putting his Johnson Brat in a corpse... remember Kaientai vs Val Venis... Anything having to do with Snitsky/Lita... They put Sunny and Sable in the HOF too with their less than spectacular histories included.

I think he tried to come up with something so that he doesn't have to reveal the real reason (IMO Stephanie).

As for Rollins, I think he's Shawn Michaels after the Curtain Call at MSG.


I don't know if it will actually factor into anything, but it's something HHH acknowledged.

There's no way not to without looking stupid.