7/23/2014 Reds vs Brewers Day Game

[cumberlandreds]

Here's today's lineups. No Cozart. Frazier back to the two hole. Game time is 2 PM. I think FSO is televising and will be on some markets via the MLB network.


1. Billy Hamilton (http://www.baseballpress.com/lineups#) (S) CF
2. Todd Frazier (http://www.baseballpress.com/lineups#) (R) 3B
3. Brayan Pena (http://www.baseballpress.com/lineups#) (S) 1B
4. Ryan Ludwick (http://www.baseballpress.com/lineups#) (R) LF
5. Jay Bruce (http://www.baseballpress.com/lineups#) (L) RF
6. Devin Mesoraco (http://www.baseballpress.com/lineups#) (R) C
7. Skip Schumaker (http://www.baseballpress.com/lineups#) (L) 2B
8. Ramon Santiago (http://www.baseballpress.com/lineups#) (S) SS
9. Mike Leake (http://www.baseballpress.com/lineups#) (R) P


1. Carlos Gomez (http://www.baseballpress.com/lineups#) (R) CF
2. Jonathan Lucroy (http://www.baseballpress.com/lineups#) (R) C
3. Ryan Braun (http://www.baseballpress.com/lineups#) (R) RF
4. Aramis Ramirez (http://www.baseballpress.com/lineups#) (R) 3B
5. Rickie Weeks (http://www.baseballpress.com/lineups#) (R) 2B
6. Khris Davis (http://www.baseballpress.com/lineups#) (R) LF
7. Mark Reynolds (http://www.baseballpress.com/lineups#) (R) 1B
8. Jean Segura (http://www.baseballpress.com/lineups#) (R) SS
9. Kyle Lohse (http://www.baseballpress.com/lineups#) (R) P

[Big Klu]

I had the order wrong, and I thought there might be a chance that Lutz would be at 1B, but otherwise it is the cast of characters I expected.

[Kc61]

Given the Votto/Phillips DL, today's guys may be the best offensive group the Reds have. In fact, even before Cozart's injury, Reds arguably should have tried it.

As for the batting order, Price obviously is trying to put Frazier and Mes in more comfortable spots to get them relaxed and producing.

Up to Leake to pitch a good game.

[PepperJack]

Mark Sheldon @m_sheldon · 53m
The last time #reds went winless on a road trip of at least 6 games was July 20-26, 2009. They'll be trying to avoid that here today.

[PepperJack]

John Fay ‏@johnfayman 52m
RT @Scott1693: @johnfayman Are the Reds going to win today?//First 100 games indicate there's a 51 percent chance.

[Ironman92]

We need Leake to be pretty good, defense to make a couple great plays and all the routine plays, a few timely hits and an umpire that doesn't squeeze Leake.

Probably need 3 of those to have a chance.

[Ironman92]

I don't like Leake's chances. Being reported of him having stuff neck issues the past month.....he's went 5+ in every start. Due to not get out of the first 3.

[cumberlandreds]

Roof is open. 70 degrees. Looks like a perfect day for a Reds win.

[westofyou]

35 years ago today the Reds were 5 games back. They won the division.

[cumberlandreds]

Hamilton flies out to begin the game.

[RedTeamGo!]

35 years ago today the Reds were 5 games back. They won the division.

How many teams were between them and first place?

[cumberlandreds]

Frazier K's after 11 pitches.

[cumberlandreds]

Pena lines out to end the inning.

- - - Updated - - -


How many teams were between them and first place?


None. They were 2nd behind the Astros.

[faffy42]

Reds need hits today. Lots of hits.
Hits.

[Ironman92]

Is this real?

[kbrake]

How many teams were between them and first place?

I'm more worried about games back of first than I am teams in front of us for right now. I'd rather be 4.5 back in 4th place than 7 back in 2nd place.

And the game starts with our great defensive 3B making an error on a routine play. Unbelievable.

[Ironman92]

First bleeping play on an easy grounder SMH

He'll score...book it

[kbrake]

Reds need hits today. Lots of hits.
Hits.

Reds need wins. I don't care if they win 1-0 and score on a 4 base error.

[cumberlandreds]

And then it starts....Frazier boots an easy grounder.

[Ironman92]

Good to see the Reds fans owning the screen behind the plate

[Ironman92]

I may have to just post on the thread I started.

[cumberlandreds]

Base hit Lucroy,1st and 2nd.

[cumberlandreds]

Braun K's looking.

[kbrake]

Really nice job by Leake. K's Juice looking and then gets Ramirez to ground into a DP to end the inning.

[RedTeamGo!]

I'm more worried about games back of first than I am teams in front of us for right now. I'd rather be 4.5 back in 4th place than 7 back in 2nd place.

And the game starts with our great defensive 3B making an error on a routine play. Unbelievable.

I disagree. It is much easier to chase 1 team than 3.

[Big Klu]

Good to see the Reds fans owning the screen behind the plate

They should have brought three more friends wearing shirts with asterisks on them:

R*E*D*S (Think M*A*S*H)

[cumberlandreds]

Ramirez hits into DP to end the inning. Zero to zero after one.

[faffy42]

Reds need wins. I don't care if they win 1-0 and score on a 4 base error.

Yea ultimately..wins are best. But sure would like to see the bats light up and get this line up going in a positive direction.

[Strikes Out Looking]

It doesn't matter how many teams are in front of the Reds if they don't know how to get on base and score runs.

[villain612]

As bad as the 5 game streak has been....if we win this game, we're still only 3.5 back with a lot of games to play.

[kbrake]

I disagree. It is much easier to chase 1 team than 3.

As time disappears I might shift more to that thinking but right now I just think there is enough time left just stay close. All 4 teams still play each other quite a bit. At 4.5 out Reds will have their chances.

[cumberlandreds]

ramirez air mails a throw to Chicago. Runner at 2nd to start the 2nd/

[kaldaniels]

Leake doesn't seem the type that starts nibbling once guys get on. He pretty much sticks to the plan, even if he's getting hit hard. I like that.

[Rantly]

Bruce whiffs again

[kbrake]

Love me some Jay Bruce but good lord is he lost at the plate right now.

[cumberlandreds]

Bruce K's

[Ironman92]

Bruce costs us a run....see if Skip can pick up his teammate

[cumberlandreds]

Mez flies to CF

[cumberlandreds]

The Maker of Schu's flies to rf to end the inning.

Going to have to go. Try to get us run or two before the day is out.

[faffy42]

I just don't know if I will be able to watch this game if the brewers score a run...cuz it will seem over at that point.

[RedTeamGo!]

Does Bruce have any minor league options left? (75% joking)

[Big Klu]

I'm more worried about games back of first than I am teams in front of us for right now. I'd rather be 4.5 back in 4th place than 7 back in 2nd place.

And the game starts with our great defensive 3B making an error on a routine play. Unbelievable.

Tommy Lasorda once said that he would rather be 10 games back and in second place than 5 games back and in fourth place. His reasoning was that when you are in fourth place you are spinning your wheels. It's very difficult to gain ground on everyone. When you're in second place, there's only one target on which you have to focus.

[Ironman92]

There's one of those great plays....will need one more

[Ironman92]

Tommy Lasorda once said that he would rather be 10 games back and in second place than 5 games back and in fourth place. His reasoning was that when you are in fourth place you are spinning your wheels. It's very difficult to gain ground on everyone. When you're in second place, there's only one target on which you have to focus.

On July 23rd I disagree

[NeilHamburger]

When is the Bengals first preaseason game?

I need something else to look forward to. This is just awful.

[Ironman92]

Scoreless in Milwaukee

[Strikes Out Looking]

Tommy Lasorda once said that he would rather be 10 games back and in second place than 5 games back and in fourth place. His reasoning was that when you are in fourth place you are spinning your wheels. It's very difficult to gain ground on everyone. When you're in second place, there's only one target on which you have to focus.

He also said his blood came out blue, so take it for what its worth.

[kaldaniels]

Tommy Lasorda once said that he would rather be 10 games back and in second place than 5 games back and in fourth place. His reasoning was that when you are in fourth place you are spinning your wheels. It's very difficult to gain ground on everyone. When you're in second place, there's only one target on which you have to focus.

Just win baby. That's all you can control.

[villain612]

It would seem to me that if you have a bunch of good teams at the top, they're all going to beat up on eachother. All it takes is for one of them to get hot, put a good streak on, and surpass the others.

I could be wrong though.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Haven't seen Todd that pissed in quite a while. He must've felt he just missed it.

[Ironman92]

Ryan Ludwick. 4-31 off of Lohse...

[Ironman92]

Haven't seen Todd that pissed in quite a while. He must've felt he just missed it.

Todd entered this game 2/15 off of Logse

[757690]

Phillips probably gets that hit by Gomez.

[Tom Servo]

Lucroy is history's greatest monster

[Ironman92]

SMH....easy double play ground ball but SS playing up the middle.

No luck at all

[Ironman92]

Phillips probably gets that hit by Gomez.

I doubt it but doesn't matter

[Tom Servo]

Yesiree!

[Ironman92]

SMH....easy double play ground ball but SS playing up the middle.

No luck at all

I'm good.

[_Sir_Charles_]

I said it a few days ago and I still feel it's true. We need something to pick up the spirits of the boys. Everybody's grumbling and ticked off. That kind of stuff will snowball. I'd love to see them bring in Teddy Kramer again.

[Ironman92]

Where is everyone?

[Kc61]

It would seem to me that if you have a bunch of good teams at the top, they're all going to beat up on eachother. All it takes is for one of them to get hot, put a good streak on, and surpass the others.

I could be wrong though.

Reds have to gain 5 on Brewers to pass them. Have to gain 3.5 on Cards to pass them. Have to gain 2.5 on Pirates to pass them.

Much more complicated than simply trailing the Brewers by 4.5.

[reds44]

I said it a few days ago and I still feel it's true. We need something to pick up the spirits of the boys. Everybody's grumbling and ticked off. That kind of stuff will snowball. I'd love to see them bring in Teddy Kramer again.
He couldn't be any worse than Schumaker lol

[Ironman92]

Reds have to gain 5 on Brewers to pass them. Have to gain 3.5 on Cards to pass them. Have to gain 2.5 on Pirates to pass them.

Much more complicated than simply trailing the Brewers by 4.5.

Yeah.....but rather there than in 2nd 10 games back

[_Sir_Charles_]

Where is everyone?

DL

[Red Raindog]

this offense -- :cry:

[villain612]

Reds have to gain 5 on Brewers to pass them. Have to gain 3.5 on Cards to pass them. Have to gain 2.5 on Pirates to pass them.

Much more complicated than simply trailing the Brewers by 4.5.

Yeah but those teams play other teams too. It's not like they play in a Reds vacuum.

[Ironman92]

Bruce gets lucky pulling a ball 3 inches outside to RF

[Ironman92]

C'mon Devin

[_Sir_Charles_]

I haven't seen Jay take a good hard RIP in quite a while. Nice easy swings.

[Kc61]

Yeah.....but rather there than in 2nd 10 games back

Probably correct, but somebody very proficient in math could tell you.

I mean, if you add up the three necessary events, the Reds have to gain 11 altogether on three teams combined. Obviously not the same as being 11 out behind one team because Reds can gain on two or three clubs simultaneously and pick up two or three games at once.

But anyone who says the Reds are simply 4.5 with 62 to go, well, I think that understates the problem.

[Red Raindog]

DL

I resemble that remark -- just got back from physical therapy trying to avoid cervical surgery --- just can't stay away from ortho or neuro docs it seems

[_Sir_Charles_]

Probably correct, but somebody very proficient in math could tell you.

I mean, if you add up the three necessary events, the Reds have to gain 11 altogether on three teams combined. Obviously not the same as being 11 out behind one team because Reds can gain on two or three clubs simultaneously and pick up two or three games at once.

But anyone who says the Reds are simply 4.5 with 62 to go, well, I think that understates the problem.

You guys are putting too much thought into it. Just win. Ignore the competition and do the one thing you CAN control...the games the Reds actually play. If somebody else wins more, tip your cap.

[Ironman92]

BHam struggling
Frazier 2-17 off Lohse
Pena
Ludwick 4-33 off Lohse
Bruce as bad as ever
Meso struggling terribly

Just a meager meager chance of scoring

[Ironman92]

First guy on....always scores versus Leake

[RedTeamGo!]

You guys are putting too much thought into it. Just win. Ignore the competition and do the one thing you CAN control...the games the Reds actually play. If somebody else wins more, tip your cap.

That's fine and all, but people keep saying "we are only 4.5 back with 62 to go" and its just not telling the whole story.

[Kc61]

You guys are putting too much thought into it. Just win. Ignore the competition and do the one thing you CAN control...the games the Reds actually play. If somebody else wins more, tip your cap.

It only really comes into play when the GM evaluates the Reds' situation to decide what deals to make and what direction to take.

It also comes into play a bit later in the season when you realistically have to decide whether to follow these excruciating games or have some actual fun.

[Ironman92]

Very nice Jay

[Tom Servo]

Nice catch by Bruce

[Tom Servo]

Leake not fooling them today.

[Strikes Out Looking]

Personally, I blame Matheny as the Reds were let down by his crappy all star game managing that lost the home field advantage in the WS, thus causing them to throw up the white flag coming out of the break.

[Ironman92]

They have 5 hits on balls bouncing thru the IF.....the only 2 really well hit balls are this inning but outs to RF

[Ironman92]

Wasting pitches against Reynolds.....3 pitches 15 inches off the plate.....then drops two yackers for the easy out

[Big Klu]

Thom's favorite punctuation mark is the exclamation point.

[RedTeamGo!]

Personally, I blame Matheny as the Reds were let down by his crappy all star game managing that lost the home field advantage in the WS, thus causing them to throw up the white flag coming out of the break.

Personally, I blame Matheny for poverty on earth, climate change, and malaria.

Dude is just an evil man.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Thom's favorite punctuation mark is the exclamation point.

I was going to say question mark because he's so often clueless.

[Big Klu]

Jim Day says that Jerry Narron can write in Asian.

[Ironman92]

Jim Day says that Jerry Barron can write in Asian.

Who

[Big Klu]

Who

Narron. I already fixed it. Autocorrect.

[Tom Servo]

Jim Day says that Jerry Narron can write in Asian.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uy9Z-Tg6ufU

[Ironman92]

I don't care at all about any stats

BUNT

[NebraskaRed]

Ramon Santiago will save us all.

[Ironman92]

Narron. I already fixed it. Autocorrect.

I know. I was being an autoass

[Ironman92]

Bunt again...I'm serious

[ThatPitchIsDunn]

Nice rag arm, Roid Boy.

[Tom Servo]

A run! 1-0 Redlegs

[Ironman92]

Good job Billy!

[Ironman92]

Nice rag arm, Roid Boy.

Careful....let's wait until we finally win to chastise him

[Big Klu]

According to Thom, this doesn't constitute a lead yet, since the Brewers haven't batted in this inning.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Brantley says Billy's in the 40-40 club now. 40 steals, 40 rbi's. :O)

[NebraskaRed]

According to Thom, this doesn't constitute a lead yet, since the Brewers haven't batted in this inning.

I think you mean, According to Thom, this DOESN'T constitute a LEAD YET...since the Brewers...haven't...batted...IN THIS INNING.

[Ironman92]

According to Thom, this doesn't constitute a lead yet, since the Brewers haven't batted in this inning.

I wonder if it was 12-0 if he'd hold his stance

[ThatPitchIsDunn]

Careful....let's wait until we finally win to chastise him

IMO, Braun deserves every bit of ridicule he gets - morning, noon and night.

[Big Klu]

I hate this IPhone commercial.

[_Sir_Charles_]

I think you mean, According to Thom, this DOESN'T constitute a LEAD YET...since the Brewers...haven't...batted...IN THIS INNING.

Forgot the exclamation point.

[Big Klu]

I think you mean, According to Thom, this DOESN'T constitute a LEAD YET...since the Brewers...haven't...batted...IN THIS INNING.

You forgot the EXCLAMATION POINT!

[Tom Servo]

Always good to give up a hit to Lohse before Gomez, Lucroy, Braun, and Ramirez are due up.

[ThatPitchIsDunn]

Thom: "And this lead has VANISHED."

Yes, that whopping one run lead.

[Big Klu]

I wonder if it was 12-0 if he'd hold his stance

He's been going on about how the Reds haven't even had a LEAD in this entire road trip! NOW, you might remember that the Reds scored one in the fourth inning on Sunday at Yankee Stadium...HOWEVER, the Yankees scored twice in the bottom of the fourth, so the Reds never had the lead at the end of the inning!

[Ironman92]

I have zero problem with that dive. He was running full speed and missed it by inches.

The only thing I have a problem with is Thom's mouth

[Ironman92]

Thom: "And this lead has VANISHED."

Yes, that whopping one run lead.

Ridiculous

[Ironman92]

IMO, Braun deserves every bit of ridicule he gets - morning, noon and night.

Oh...I don't disagree...I just feel like if I poke fun of him stinking he'll burn us later

[Big Klu]

I have zero problem with that dive. He was running full speed and missed it by inches.

The only thing I have a problem with is Thom's mouth

I never thought I would say this, but I'm ready for George to come back.

[Tom Servo]

of all the lucky breaks

[Ironman92]

I'm just so feeling like nearly every Brewers hitter is someone I don't want up to face us.....but I'm feeling like every Reds hitter is either terrible or playing terribly

[Ironman92]

That's what happens when I garbage on a player...Braun lucks out and now we are losing on garbage

[ThatPitchIsDunn]

It's pretty easy to use hindsight, but if Leake doesn't serve up a cookie breaking ball to Lohse, he's sitting in the dugout with a lead.

[Ironman92]

It's pretty easy to use hindsight, but if Leake doesn't serve up a cookie breaking ball to Lohse, he's sitting in the dugout with a lead.

If Bruce or Skip are playing one step to their left you can say the same.

[Tom Servo]

It's pretty easy to use hindsight, but if Leake doesn't serve up a cookie breaking ball to Lohse, he's sitting in the dugout with a lead.
Yeah I'm pretty pissed at Leake for that. You have Murderer's Row coming up, and you give the pitcher an easy ball to hit. Just stupid.

[757690]

Leake deserved much better that inning.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Murderer's Row

Really? *grin*

[klw]

Oh...I don't disagree...I just feel like if I poke fun of him stinking he'll burn us later

"Xander don't taunt the fear demon."

[Big Klu]

"And the Reds STILL have not had a lead this ENTIRE road trip!" -- T. Brennaman

[BluegrassRedleg]

I hesitate to assist Thom in his woe-is-me routine, but there are really valid questions in that Braun AB: (1) Why are you playing a shift on a guy who's made headlines for going to the opposite field so much in his post-cheating days; and (2) IF you want to play a shift, why why why are you pitching him exclusively low and outside???

This is Baseball 101 stuff. The Reds can't seem to get out of their own way this week.

[Ironman92]

I hesitate to assist Thom in his woe-is-me routine, but there a really valid questions in that Braun AB: (1) Why are you playing a shift on a guy who's made headlines for going to the opposite field so much in his post-cheating days; and (2) IF you want to play a shift, why why why are you pitching him exclusively low and outside???

This is Baseball 101 stuff. The Reds can't seem to get out of their own way this week.

This times a million. Braun is great going to RCF side....we play him up the middle and pitch him outside????? Terrible on someone's part.

[Tom Servo]

Really? *grin*
.302/.368/.500/.868
.310/.381/.500/.881
.304/.356/.534/.889
.284/.333/.455/.788


Really

[_Sir_Charles_]

.302/.368/.500/.868
.310/.381/.500/.881
.304/.356/.534/.889
.284/.333/.455/.788


Really

It's good, but they do NOT deserve THAT particular moniker. Go look at the stats of the true Murderer's Row.

1-8's OPS's.

.925
.702
1.258
1.239
.903
.865
.683
.825

[jordan_tm]

I may be the only one, but does anyone else get annoyed at the cockiness and arrogant play of players like Gomez and Gennett? Putting your finger to your lips while laughing after a hit just seems juvenile to me.

[Ironman92]

I hesitate to assist Thom in his woe-is-me routine, but there are really valid questions in that Braun AB: (1) Why are you playing a shift on a guy who's made headlines for going to the opposite field so much in his post-cheating days; and (2) IF you want to play a shift, why why why are you pitching him exclusively low and outside???

This is Baseball 101 stuff. The Reds can't seem to get out of their own way this week.

He pitches in a similar fashion to Maddux. Maddux used to step off the mound and move infielders and then pitch it to likely go there.

It's like our scouting reports and pitching game plans aren't sync'd at all....and 6 3 hopping ground balls for hits keeps Thom yelling and frankly I hate it.

[ThatPitchIsDunn]

I may be the only one, but does anyone else get annoyed at the cockiness and arrogant play of players like Gomez and Gennett? Putting your finger to your lips while laughing after a hit just seems juvenile to me.

Gomez is the worst because he has all the talent in the world and decides to be a dirtbag (i wanted to use a different word than dirt) about it. I'm not saying everyone has to be Derek Jeter, but jeez.

[Ironman92]

I may be the only one, but does anyone else get annoyed at the cockiness and arrogant play of players like Gomez and Gennett? Putting your finger to your lips while laughing after a hit just seems juvenile to me.

No, not at all. I love how Gomez plays baseball....regardless that I'd never want my son to participate in some of his antics.

I love Scooter's game and haven't noticed anything offensive to me.

[Cedric]

He pitches in a similar fashion to Maddux. Maddux used to step off the mound and move infielders and then pitch it to likely go there.

It's like our scouting reports and pitching game plans aren't sync'd at all....and 6 3 hopping ground balls for hits keeps Thom yelling and frankly I hate it.

Who pitches like Maddux? Surely not Mike Leake.

[Ironman92]

Dear Thom,

I hate your tone.

[Tom Servo]

Dear Thom,

I hate you
fify

[Ironman92]

Who pitches like Maddux? Surely not Mike Leake.

Please better see my effort to say he is not Maddux.

[jordan_tm]

No, not at all. I love how Gomez plays baseball....regardless that I'd never want my son to participate in some of his antics.

I love Scooter's game and haven't noticed anything offensive to me.

I don't deny in any way the talent of either player. Gomez's antics are more pronounced the Gennett's but I have noticed them with Gennett in the past.

I just don't see the need to flaunt your success on the playing field. Probably why I don't care much for the way Richard Sherman plays. Players need to let their talent do the talking.

[Red Raindog]

Our statue in LF didn't play the ball too well -- Leake doesn't have the best of luck

[Tom Servo]

Well done Leake

[Ironman92]

Biggest issue this game is once again the offense. We get locked up on other stuff. 3 hits (all singles) in 6 innings. Most of out big guys are trying to pull outside 1-2 pitches thinking they are getting a fastball?

[villain612]

Well...flirting with first place for a week was fun.

[Playadlc]

��

[Tom Servo]

Did everybody on the Reds take pills that make you terrible during the All-Star Break?

[REDblooded]

Sell sell sell sell sell sell sell sell sell

[50YrRedsFan]

Good night, Irene

[jordan_tm]

This season appears to be spiraling down the drain.

[Cedric]

Another 10+ hit performance by Mike Leake. The luckiest guy in baseball that he gets to pitch behind the Reds for all these years. He's somehow confused people into actually thinking he was good.

[Ironman92]

I don't deny in any way the talent of either player. Gomez's antics are more pronounced the Gennett's but I have noticed them with Gennett in the past.

I just don't see the need to flaunt your success on the playing field. Probably why I don't care much for the way Richard Sherman plays. Players need to let their talent do the talking.

Gomez does it both ways....he struck out last week and tried to break his bat 3 times and then went nuts in frustration.

I loved how Scott Rolen played....but also loved how Rickey Henderson went about things.

[Ironman92]

This season appears to be spiraling down the drain.

That word doesn't seen dynamic enough lol

[Ironman92]

Might as well see a Gomez HR followed by cartwheels

[Stray]

Fire Jacoby

[jordan_tm]

That word doesn't seen dynamic enough lol

haha, how about 'flushed'?

[50YrRedsFan]

Hoover warming......Price throwing in the towel on this one.

[Mutaman]

I loved how Scott Rolen played....but also loved how Rickey Henderson went about things.

I once saw a ball hit over Hendersons head, and Rickey walked after the ball. Literally walked after the ball. Yankee Stadium, late 80s. Not one of my favorite players.

[jordan_tm]

JJ "White Flag" Hoover ready for the 7th.

[faffy42]

Dear reds,
Cheers! To the 3 or 4 players on this team who stayed healthy this year! Everyone else...this seasons on you.
Thanks!
Reds fan

[RedsBrick]

I guess I should have been more specific when asking for a 10 game streak this season...

[Mutaman]

Plenty of things to complain about but lets not forget that the starting pitchers haven't exactly stepped up during this streak.

[toledodan]

Plenty of things to complain about but lets not forget that the starting pitchers haven't exactly stepped up during this streak.

True but its hard to pitch being afraid to give up a couple of runs knowing you can't win.

[jordan_tm]

Plenty of things to complain about but lets not forget that the starting pitchers haven't exactly stepped up during this streak.

It really has been a total team collapse since the AS break. Pitching, Defense, Hitting.

[Redsfansince72]

Plenty of things to complain about but lets not forget that the starting pitchers haven't exactly stepped up during this streak.

they havent been totally bad, but just think if this starting staff was having the bats of the Big Red Machine behind them?? they wouldnt have to have a mindset of having to pitch a shutout everygame they start because this offense with backups prb couldnt beat the Cubs now!!

- - - Updated - - -


It really has been a total team collapse since the AS break. Pitching, Defense, Hitting.

And Walt is still sleeping

[_Sir_Charles_]

Plenty of things to complain about but lets not forget that the starting pitchers haven't exactly stepped up during this streak.

One of the worst stretches of Reds defense I've seen in a while. A good portion of that blame rests on Price's shoulders for playing guys out of position....when he doesn't NEED to.

[Mutaman]

One of the worst stretches of Reds defense I've seen in a while.

True, but lots of gopher balls as well.

[Ironman92]

One of the worst stretches of Reds defense I've seen in a while.

I'd like to include hitting and base running

With mediocre pitching

[50YrRedsFan]

Plenty of things to complain about but lets not forget that the starting pitchers haven't exactly stepped up during this streak.

Disagree....not the greatest stretch, but the pressure on the pitchers because of no offense has to be stifling. They know if they don't pitch a shutout, it will be a loss.

[kbrake]

Just came back and caught up on the last 8 pages or so of this thread and as much as this sucks right now I really do love this board. I literally laughed out loud probably 3 or 4 times reading this thread. I'm an easy target with jokes at Thom's expense but still some solid post today.

[kbrake]

Disagree....not the greatest stretch, but the pressure on the pitchers because of no offense has to be stifling. They know if they don't pitch a shutout, it will be a loss.

If pitchers are that soft mentally they wouldn't be able to handle pitching in the big leagues in the first place. I'm sure they know their is little margin for error but it isn't like they're out their shaking in their boots. They still have to do their job and they haven't gotten it done since the break either.

[villain612]

This team has completely melted down since last Friday.

[Redsfansince72]

question is, with them coming back and a off day, does Walt wake up and make a deal to wake up this team> or sit back and sleep till the seasons over???

[kbrake]

question is, with them coming back and a off day, does walt wake up and make a deal to wake up this team> or sit back and sleep till the seasons over???

sleepy walt!!!!!!!!!!!!

[toledodan]

If pitchers are that soft mentally they wouldn't be able to handle pitching in the big leagues in the first place. I'm sure they know their is little margin for error but it isn't like they're out their shaking in their boots. They still have to do their job and they haven't gotten it done since the break either.

I disagree. You pitch different when you can't afford to allow anything. I've heard this from several different people from other clubs.

[Mutaman]

Disagree....not the greatest stretch, but the pressure on the pitchers because of no offense has to be stifling. They know if they don't pitch a shutout, it will be a loss.

Not exactly. Pitchers have given up 4.5 runs per game since the break. And this ones not over yet. Granted some of that is due to bad defense, but 4.5 runs per game is not stepping up. Name one starting performance that you have been satisfied with since the break.

[Kc61]

Disagree....not the greatest stretch, but the pressure on the pitchers because of no offense has to be stifling. They know if they don't pitch a shutout, it will be a loss.

This is the essential point. There's no room for error or slump among pitchers, defenders, because the team doesn't score runs. The whole "run prevention" mantra was always flawed. Very few teams in history were good enough to win a championship with so little offense.

Add in the injuries and you get this current mess.

Hopefully the Reds will begin soon making the necessary changes for next year, which right now has to be the main focus.

[NebraskaRed]

Hey guys, you know what would make for some really funny jokes? What if we all started making humorous references to Mr. Walt Jocketty sleeping?

[Hillsdale87]

And Walt is still sleeping

Walt maybe should have gotten something done over the break. Now he's in a tough spot though. There's time left, but this week has really hurt playoff chances. Does he still want to give up prospects for a rental? He could get a huge haul trading a few guys, but they're not far enough out where fans or players would understand selling stars...

[RedTeamGo!]

question is, with them coming back and a off day, does Walt wake up and make a deal to wake up this team> or sit back and sleep till the seasons over???

I hope he takes a nap until August 1st. No point in throwing prospects away at this point.

[Mutaman]

Leake has now pitched two bad games, JC couldn't get past the 5th inning, Simon and Latos were mediocre, and Homer gave up 3 gopher balls. Not stepping up.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Okay, what shift is Thom talking about? They're playing Braun straight up. Is he crosseyed?

[Kc61]

Walt maybe should have gotten something done over the break. Now he's in a tough spot though. There's time left, but this week has really hurt playoff chances. Does he still want to give up prospects for a rental? He could get a huge haul trading a few guys, but they're not far enough out where fans or players would understand selling stars...

He obviously would be very unwise to trade good prospects for rentals.

Any deals he makes must be positive for 2015.

[Cedric]

I hope he takes a nap until August 1st. No point in throwing prospects away at this point.

I would look to trade Cueto, Latos and Chapman.

[Tom Servo]

Walt maybe should have gotten something done over the break. Now he's in a tough spot though. There's time left, but this week has really hurt playoff chances. Does he still want to give up prospects for a rental? He could get a huge haul trading a few guys, but they're not far enough out where fans or players would understand selling stars...
Was there really a reason though if you are in the Reds front office to expect the Reds to come out after the ASB and drop 6 in a row?

[RedTeamGo!]

I would look to trade Cueto, Latos and Chapman.

I would trade Latos, I would hold on to Cueto and Chapman though. The bullpen is way too awful to trade chap.

[Redsfansince72]

so Walt is more than happy his team is sucking so he can sleep and not make the playoffs and blame everything on injuries, BUT he did nothing to help the team from having to ply backups everyday.. there is a reason they are called backups, because they are not good enough to start everyday!!!..So Walt can do nothing and have a excuse.. Becuase if they had played better on this trip, he would have had another excuse not to do anything

[RedTeamGo!]

Was there really a reason though if you are in the Reds front office to expect the Reds to come out after the ASB and drop 6 in a row?

May be a blessing in disguise IMO. Would have sucked to trade a few solid prospects for zobrist and still miss the playoffs.

#silverlining

- - - Updated - - -


so Walt is more than happy his team is sucking so he can sleep and not make the playoffs and blame everything on injuries, BUT he did nothing to help the team from having to ply backups everyday.. there is a reason they are called backups, because they are not good enough to start everyday!!!..So Walt can do nothing and have a excuse.. Becuase if they had played better on this trip, he would have had another excuse not to do anything

Is this satire?

[Mutaman]

This is the essential point. There's no room for error or slump among pitchers, defenders, because the team doesn't score runs. The whole "run prevention" mantra was always flawed. Very few teams in history were good enough to win a championship with so little offense.


Reds pitchers did a pretty good job of it two years ago. Its not like Stubbs and the boys were the 27 Yankees.

[50YrRedsFan]

I hope he takes a nap until August 1st. No point in throwing prospects away at this point.

I would start now for next year. One bat isn't going to make a difference this year, with Votto and Phillips questionable for the rest of the year.

[Redsfansince72]

so might as well throw in th towel loose every game on out.. trade Latos/Bruce/Lecure/Broxten/Ludwick/Hiesey/Pena and be worse than the Cubs and maaybe that will make BOB do real changes since Winning isnt in the true plan

[Tom Servo]

I would look to trade Cueto, Latos and Chapman.
Makes sense if you're itching for a return to Lost Decade futility.

[kbrake]

I would look to trade Cueto, Latos and Chapman.

You would be punting 2015 and no way in hell Castellini will do that or allow it to be done.

With Price likely off the market I would dangle Cueto. I doubt his value will never be higher and see if someone will just completely knock you over. Otherwise I just get guys healthy and look to 2015.

[Red Raindog]

so might as well throw in th towel loose every game on out.. trade Latos/Bruce/Lecure/Broxten/Ludwick/Hiesey/Pena and be worse than the Cubs and maaybe that will make BOB do real changes since Winning isnt in the true plan

If the Reds lost the last 6 guys on your list I don't thing the drop off would be very much --- Broxten & Pena have been the only two that have produced (I'm exempting Latos)

[RedTeamGo!]

trade Latos/Bruce/Lecure/Broxten/Ludwick/Hiesey/Pena

I would be ok if everyone of those players is traded other than Bruce.

The problem is lecure, Pena, Ludwick and Heisey are worth absolutely nothing.

[villain612]

You will have Cueto, Latos, and Leake all pitching for contracts in 2015. Unless you're getting a Stanton or a Tulo in return, I do not trade them (at least not till next summer if the Reds are out of contention).

[Kc61]

Reds pitchers did a pretty good job of it two years ago. Its not like Stubbs and the boys were the 27 Yankees.

The best formula is good balance. The health and durability of the 2012 starting pitchers was remarkable and the bullpen was great. Hard to count on that. Best way to go is with a well balanced team.

[Mutaman]

I would look to trade Cueto, Latos and Chapman.

I don't get this mentality. I'm a Reds fan but I don't particularly root for the laundry. We've been rooting for JC and Chappie since they entered American baseball. Why would we want to trade them away?

[RedTeamGo!]

Makes sense if you're itching for a return to Lost Decade futility.

Meh, reds supposedly have deepest starting pitching in Major League Baseball. I don't think it would be lost decade bad.

Latos and Cueto are likely gone after 2015, if you can obtain some elite infield prospects for one of them, it shouldn't be the end of the world.

[Kc61]

You will have Cueto, Latos, and Leake all pitching for contracts in 2015. Unless you're getting a Stanton or a Tulo in return, I do not trade them.

Huge risk. Simon too. So on July 31, 2015 you have four starters about to walk as free agents in two months' time.

IMO, they can take that risk with Simon and Leake. But Latos and Cueto have much trade value. I would cash one of them in and sign up the other this off-season.

[villain612]

Huge risk. Simon too. So on July 31, 2015 you have four starters about to walk as free agents in two months' time.

IMO, they can take that risk with Simon and Leake. But Latos and Cueto have much trade value. I would cash one of them in and sign up the other this off-season.

If its July 2015 and the Reds are out of contention, yes I would trade them too.

I see your point about risk, but theoretically shouldn't the Reds be in a position to compete in 2015?

[Mutaman]

The best formula is good balance. The health and durability of the 2012 starting pitchers was remarkable and the bullpen was great. Hard to count on that. Best way to go is with a well balanced team.

Agree, agree. But its too easy to scapegoat Walt. No one wants to point their fingers at the players, particularly the stars, and say "You're not doing your job". (And jumping on the usual subjects, Cozart, Ludwick, etc, doesn't count).

[Kc61]

If its July 2015 and the Reds are out of contention, yes I would trade them too.

And you'll get a diminished return for a two months' rental. And you are risking that if one isn't doing well or hurt, you'll get nothing.

I think the Reds need to "sell high" on at least one of these guys in order to help re-stock the ball club with good young players.

[Hillsdale87]

Was there really a reason though if you are in the Reds front office to expect the Reds to come out after the ASB and drop 6 in a row?

No. I didn't think Walt needed to make a move over the AS Break. But I could understand fans who wanted to upgrade the team ASAP. The team was playing well. I honestly thought that it wouldn't take too much tweaking to make the Reds a playoff team. I still have confidence that the Reds are better than they're playing right now, but being 5.5 out really hurts

[villain612]

I don't blame Walt. I'm gonna go nap too.

[Mutaman]

Two HRS for Reynolds who was hitting .199 coming into the game.

[NebraskaRed]

Two HRS for Reynolds who was hitting .199 coming into the game.

So you're saying there's hope for our entire lineup!

[Kc61]

Agree, agree. But its too easy to scapegoat Walt. No one wants to point their fingers at the players, particularly the stars, and say "You're not doing your job". (And jumping on the usual subjects, Cozart, Ludwick, etc, doesn't count).

I agree. But let's face it, the team had five all stars. A number of guys have exceeded expectations, and some have fallen off.

No use lingering in the past, just hope the front office changes its stripes and is more active improving the team.

[Mutaman]

So you're saying there's hope for our entire lineup!

Not really. But then I'm a glass is half empty kind of guy.

[kbrake]

I'd trade Cueto, Latos, and Chapman for anything if the other team would take Thom as PTBNL.

[NeilHamburger]

Well, that's it for this year. This team is DONE. I really hope Walt sells.

[NebraskaRed]

Well, that's it for this year. This team is DONE. I really hope Walt sells.

See you next spring!

[jordan_tm]

The lack of depth in the minors is the worst I can remember in recent time.

[kbrake]

Well, that's it for this year. This team is DONE. I really hope Walt sells.

There isn't a lot to sell that doesn't make you worse for 2015.

[villain612]

Milwaukee playing Vanilla Ice over the loudspeakers is adding insult to injury.

[kbrake]

Well I think this will officially replace the Josh Collmenter game as the low point of the season for me.

[jordan_tm]

FS Ohio couldn't resist showing Gomez's big goofy face. Congratulations, you beat our reserves and AAA team.

[villain612]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4jGSvxCRp4

[Mutaman]

I agree. But let's face it, the team had five all stars. A number of guys have exceeded expectations, and some have fallen off.

No use lingering in the past, just hope the front office changes its stripes and is more active improving the team.

You're right.

[Mutaman]

Well I think this will officially replace the Josh Collmenter game as the low point of the season for me.

You obviously weren't in the Bronx on Sunday.

[BluegrassRedleg]

There isn't a lot to sell that doesn't make you worse for 2015.

Isn't that operating on the thought that you're going to fail at making a good deal? You should be able to give quality to get (hopefully) more quality. I don't think anyone's suggesting they just go "fire sale" mode.

[malcontent]

But Latos and Cueto have much trade value. I would cash one of them in and sign up the other this off-season.
I'd move Latos and keep Cueto.

Problem with that is he hasn't been the same since the elbow and knee surgeries.

People here kept saying he's fine, just building up arm strength. But his velocity is still down and it's nearly August.

[Ironman92]

Has no one mentioned Thom talking about defensive matrix?

[Redsfansince72]

i keep hoping before i pass on I will actually witness a World Championship so my kids can see what I saw back in 1990!!.. sadly The Reds have yet to get to that next level and the way the Cubs are building their minor league system with top position players, i hate to think the Reds will become the Cubs and we fans will never see that Championship we have been promised for years!! i pray i am wrong, but I have yet to see the current GM go get missing pieces when the time calls for it.. AND I have been waiting on that so called "Future" that has yet to materialize!!

[RedTeamGo!]

i keep hoping before i pass on I will actually witness a World Championship so my kids can see what I saw back in 1990!!.. sadly The Reds have yet to get to that next level and the way the Cubs are building their minor league system with top position players, i hate to think the Reds will become the Cubs and we fans will never see that Championship we have been promised for years!! i pray i am wrong, but I have yet to see the current GM go get missing pieces when the time calls for it.. AND I have been waiting on that so called "Future" that has yet to materialize!!

The future did materialize - The Reds went to the playoffs 3 of the last 4 years with mostly homegrown talent.