No. 2, Derek Jeter. No. 2

[Herzeleid]

Great article by Joel Sherman.

http://nypost.com/2014/09/02/if-yankees-are-serious-about-september-girardi-must-reduce-jeters-role/

"In mid-April, the Yankees manager played the tough guy by saying he was not putting on a farewell tour with Jeter in explaining why Jeter was not playing one day. But, as it turns out, of course, this is exactly what Girardi is doing.

His .261 average is devoid of much impact. He has 18 extra-base hits. That is tied with Stephen Drew, among others, for 253rd in the majors. But Jeter has come to the plate 539 times and Drew 225. So while Drew is hitting just .167, I am not sure he is a worse option than Jeter — at least the potential to hit for impact is greater."

I am just stunned at Jeter still hitting 2nd in the Yankees lineup. I think Jeter will eventually cost the Yankees a playoff spot with his .621 OPS and terrible defense.

Bob Sheppard: "Now batting for the Yankees, No. 2, Derek Jeter. No. 2."

[Protoss]

Girardi is a coward.

[BernieCarbo]

Well, far be it from me to defend Joe Girardi, but this isn't a situation like when he dropped Arod in the lineup (who nobody likes), and there would be some push back from above. Hey, they were the ones who created this monster with the whole farewell tour, and now they have to feed it.

And although there are a couple of guys who would be more suitable (Suzuki, maybe Headley), the whole team is underperforming. And, as bad as Jeter is this year, he's still better than most of the guys the Reds trotted out there for years in the two spot.

[RedlegJake]

I don't think the push back from the players themselves would be worth dropping Jeter back to the end of the lineup. As Carbo said this isn't ARod, who nobody really liked that much. Sometimes we fall into the trap of looking at numbers and not the human side of things. In this case, Jeter himself needs to tell Girardi, "Hey skip, maybe you should bat me 8th." Even then the brass might consider that too much of a PR problem. Not like the Yanks are going anywhere - they have three teams far ahead in the WC race and another one tied with them.

[KronoRed]

Girardi is a coward.

He'd be fired if he did anything to upset Jeter, Jeter is the one who needs to say "move me down", he won't.

[Mutaman]

Girardi is a coward.

Having watched Girardi for many years, as a player and as a manager, one thing in life I am certain of- Girardi is no coward. Can't say I feel the same about somebody who would anonymously make such a statement about someone else.

[Protoss]

Having watched Girardi for many years, as a player and as a manager, one thing in life I am certain of- Girardi is no coward. Can't say I feel the same about somebody who would anonymously make such a statement about someone else.
Nice attack, man.

[Mutaman]

Nice attack, man.

No attack. Just an honest response to your post. Man.

[RedFanT]

In hindsight, the biggest mistake the Yankees ever made was not switching Jeter to another position after signing A-Rod in '04 (who was far and away a superior defensive player [granted, horrific person, but hey, it's the Yankees]). Even Cal Ripken had to be switched to third in the last years of his career, but for some reason the Yankees enjoy having a player with a 76 OPS+ and -25 total Zone Runs at the second most important defensive position on the field. Personally, if the Yankees are fine with that, I don't care (who likes the Yankees except Yankees fans?). What upsets me more is the fact MLB slobbered over Jeter at the ASG, while ignoring Tony Gwynn, who passed away just a month before the ASG. The best hitter of our generation and a man who was never out of position and was never a dead weight offensively or defensively throughout his career, from beginning to end. No mentions, tributes, or even a basic video honor during the game.

[BernieCarbo]

Yeah, it always cracked me up when Jeter won those gold gloves at short, when not only wasn't he a good shortstop, he wasn't even the best shortstop on the team. It's hard to take an award like that seriously.

As mentioned above, all this comes down on Jeter rather than Girardi. But, he was closing in on 3500 hits, and probably figured he had a better chance in the two spot. At a minimum, he could have at least told all the teams to hold off on the trophies and plaques and other charades as he passed through each town with his .300 OBP.

I tried to think of another star who could have possibly been that selfish as he prolonged his career to rack up numbers, and Pete Rose came to mind. But I looked at his stats, and in his last full season at age 44 for the Reds, he actually put up an OBP close to .400 while batting 2nd and 3rd. Not too shabby at all.

[Protoss]

If I were Girardi, I'll take Brendan Ryan anyday over Jeter.

[dubc47834]

If I were Girardi, I'll take Brendan Ryan anyday over Jeter.

Good thing you're not Girardi then!

[BernieCarbo]

Ryan has a lifetime OBP of .298 on a team that desperately needs to score runs. They might as well trade for Cozart.

[Protoss]

Guys, this is a no brainer.

Offense
Jeter ('14) : .618 ops
Ryan (Career) : .615 ops

Defense
Ryan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jeter

[BernieCarbo]

Ryan's OPS has been in the mid .500's or worse for the last three years, and is at .488 this year. Even Jeter hits better than that, and replacing him with Ryan wouldn't be worth the defensive upgrade on a team that has scored 0 or 1 runs in a bunch of games, not to mention dealing with the media circus.

[dubc47834]

Guys, this is a no brainer.

Offense
Jeter ('14) : .618 ops
Ryan (Career) : .615 ops

Defense
Ryan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jeter

Its not as much of a no brainer as you claim. Jeter does deserve some credit here. Just a couple years ago people were talking about him playing long enough to possibly break Rose's hits record, although most knew it would never happen(breaking the record). Jeter knows he is in decline and said before the season he would call it quits. In my mind he has taken the pressure of the Yankees for anything past this year. There is no way in hell that they are taking Jeter out of or dropping him in the lineup, even if jeter went to Girardi and told him to.

[Mutaman]

Folks just don't understand capitalism. Right now this, like everything else, is about making money. The Yankees are milking the Jeter situation for all it is worth and batting him 8th is not in the picture. And who cares: Other Yankee players and Yankee fans? Where do you think the money comes from to pay high salaries and sign free agents? The traditional baseball fan? Who do you think is filling stadiums wherever Jeter appears and who do you think is paying zillions for all the Jeter merchandise?

This was all explained to me by a Yankee Stadium vendor when I complained about what the Yankees were charging for a warm Budweiser. If you don't like the fact that Jeter is batting second, you're probably a socialist.

[RedFanT]

If you don't like the fact that Jeter is batting second, you're probably a socialist.

Actually, it's based on productivity, which is the embodiment of capitalism. Paying people not to produce (as in Jeter's case this season [offensively and defensively]) is the hallmark of socialism. If it's just about selling tickets, then bring back Mariano and pay Paul O'Neill to hit .190 in his early 50s, and laugh all the way to the bank. Selling tickets is important, but so is winning at the end of the day--you know, achievement. And speaking of socialism, I don't think we need to get into where unions and collective bargaining agreements (which the players rely on to get themselves overpaid after their most productive years are usually behind them) comes from.

[RedlegJake]

Let's try to keep political theory out of the discussion please. We have a politics sub forum for that. I'll leave this because overall it has some bearing on the discussion but lets not take it any farther guys.

[Mutaman]

Actually, it's based on productivity, which is the embodiment of capitalism. Paying people not to produce (as in Jeter's case this season [offensively and defensively]) is the hallmark of socialism. If it's just about selling tickets, then bring back Mariano and pay Paul O'Neill to hit .190 in his early 50s, and laugh all the way to the bank. Selling tickets is important, but so is winning at the end of the day--you know, achievement. And speaking of socialism, I don't think we need to get into where unions and collective bargaining agreements (which the players rely on to get themselves overpaid after their most productive years are usually behind them) comes from.

Sorry but I think from the Yankee's perspective, whether Jeter hits 2nd or 8th really is not going to have much effect on "winning". On the other hand, people are presently going to Yankee Stadium to see jeter and that means watching him bat as much as possible.
And I'm sure the Yankees would love to bring back Mariano if they could. He was pretty "productive" last year. And then they could have more Mariano retirement days.

The Yankees aren't that stupid. Greedy but not stupid. As they see it Jeter's "productivity" is based on how many butts he puts in the seats, and how much merchandise he sells, not how high is OPS is. Right now getting Jeter as many opportunities to bat is where the $ is.

[BernieCarbo]

The thing is that Jeter was injured for almost the entire year in 2013, but the previous year he was actually very good, posting a .791 OPS (better than every player on the Yankees this year). No one could have seen him fall off a cliff as badly as he did, and I'm sure they were just waiting for him to come out of his funk earlier in the year. As of now, it would be easier for him to "volunteer" to move down the lineup at this point if there was anyone who could do better or if there was some guy burning it up in AAA, but the whole team looks pretty bad at the plate. More than the money, the circus wouldn't be worth it for the marginal benefits.

[Herzeleid]

I guess it's too late now.

[Banshee]

Jeter's best thing to me has always his been his intelligence as a ballplayer. He goes w/ pitches when needed, hits the balls where they're pitched, w/ out any crap tendencies of wanting to do more than was always natural for his swing. Not to mention his excellent baserunning, and getting the best out of avg. skills/range on defense. Just a ballplayer, heading straight to the HOF. The man did everything well, and better than his athleticism should've allowed.

[Herzeleid]

http://i.imgur.com/jcgM8Bm.png?1


Cozart: "Not anymore, Mr. Jeter."

http://i.imgur.com/v06k4PJ.png?1


Cozart: "You can still thank me for this, though."

http://i.imgur.com/TAqPOVh.png?1