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Sea Ray
09-24-2014, 11:24 AM
I thought this was an interesting inside scoop on the 80s hit song by John Cougar Mellencamp:


Little ditty about "Jack & Diane": those two American kids growing up in the heartland were originally an interracial couple.

John Mellencamp's 1982 hit -- which he released under the name John Cougar -- has since become iconic, along with its two characters, the football star and the debutante who spend their time "suckin' on chili dogs outside the Tastee Freez." But Jack was originally supposed to be a much different character, Mellencamp told HuffPost Live on Monday.

"Originally the line was Jack was not a football star, Jack was an African American," Mellencamp said. "In 1982, when I turned the song in to the record company, they went, 'Whoa, can't you make him something other than that?'"

The singer-songwriter tried to stick with his original vision at first, but he was eventually persuaded otherwise, he told host Marc Lamont Hill.

"I said, 'Well, I don't really want to [change it]. I mean, that's the whole point. This is really a song about race relationships and a white girl being with a black guy, and that's what the song's about.' And they said, 'No, no, no, no,'" Mellencamp said of the conversation with his record label. "So, anyway, through much debate and me being young, I said, 'Okay, we'll make him a football star.'" ...




http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/23/john-mellencamp-jack-and-diane-interracial-_n_5868650.html?1411487576&icid=maing-grid7%7Chtmlws-main-bb%7Cdl24%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D534170

That was a huge hit in the 80s. It would not have been blasted from dorm rooms particularly in the South where I went to school if it was about an interracial couple. Good move on their part to change it to a football star. That was a different time. I did find that story interesting and it was one I'd never heard before

Razor Shines
09-25-2014, 08:15 AM
I wish John Cougar would have held his ground to the point of retiring and we'd never heard from him again.

RedTeamGo!
09-25-2014, 08:25 AM
I wish John Cougar would have held his ground to the point of retiring and we'd never heard from him again.

My thoughts exactly.

His music is just awful.

Dom Heffner
09-26-2014, 04:43 PM
John Mellencamp was a joy. Great songwriting, good stuff.

redsfanmia
09-26-2014, 05:21 PM
I wish John Cougar would have held his ground to the point of retiring and we'd never heard from him again.

I have always thought you were a Hoosier.

Larry Schuler
09-26-2014, 06:00 PM
Agreeing to turn a song with a progressive message into folksy propaganda of 'the way things were' makes John Mellencamp a hero in my book.

Raisor
09-26-2014, 06:30 PM
Pink Houses is a great song

westofyou
09-26-2014, 06:36 PM
My friends mom went to HS in Seymour, Johhny (as she calls him) was the school mascot during football games.

I hear he''s still hayseed enough to say look who's in the big town.

Rojo
09-26-2014, 06:52 PM
If writing hits was easy, everyone would do it. He's kind of in Steve Miller category of putting out stuff that sounds vaguely familiar the first time you hear it.

I never have to hear Jack & Diane again but I kind of like I Need A Lover and Play Guitar.

Raisor
09-26-2014, 07:16 PM
I need a lover is on my Slacker favs

Larry Schuler
09-26-2014, 07:22 PM
I like Johnny Cougar. He went from classic radio rock to adult contemporary pretty quickly but I can still rock out to Blood on the Scarecrow here and there.

Rojo
09-26-2014, 07:57 PM
I wonder how true this story is. Maybe's striving for some cred in his dotage? Next he'll be telling us the original title was Adam and Steve.

westofyou
09-26-2014, 08:07 PM
I need a lover is on my Slacker favs

Pat Benatar tune to me, of course his version is way better

redsfanmia
09-26-2014, 08:13 PM
I like Johnny Cougar. He went from classic radio rock to adult contemporary pretty quickly but I can still rock out to Blood on the Scarecrow here and there.

That whole album is good, Minutes to Memories is a great song.

Razor Shines
09-26-2014, 11:04 PM
I have always thought you were a Hoosier.

Yeah. Maybe if I wasn't a Hoosier I could stand him, but no. Not that it's the most important factor but I saw him in Bloomington once, he's a jackass.

And yeah, I realize that's not fair, but his general countenance aside I can't stand hearing his music.

Roy Tucker
09-26-2014, 11:49 PM
The Lonesome Jubilee still comes up on my iPod pretty often.

Dom Heffner
09-27-2014, 10:34 AM
"Ain't Even Done With the Night" is my favorite. When his band would wear the pink tuxedos and snap their fingers while John was dressed like something out of the 1950's...oh man.

That song never gets old for me.

jojo
09-27-2014, 10:52 AM
Pink Houses is a great song

It's a metaphor for interracial gay relationships. Cougar definitely caved in to the record execs on this one by changing "black and white gay men holding hands publicly" to "little pink houses for you and me".

Truthfully though radio rock is replete with examples of record companies altering an artist's vision. For instance, few realize that Toto's "Africa" was originally titled, "Raisor".

bucksfan2
09-29-2014, 09:39 AM
I wonder how true this story is. Maybe's striving for some cred in his dotage? Next he'll be telling us the original title was Adam and Steve.

I am skeptical when someone comes out 20 years later and says "Song X wasn't about who I said it was all these years, it is about Y." I have no reason not to believe him, but why did he wait 22 years to release this little diddy?

George Anderson
09-29-2014, 09:55 AM
Yeah. Maybe if I wasn't a Hoosier I could stand him, but no. Not that it's the most important factor but I saw him in Bloomington once, he's a jackass.

And yeah, I realize that's not fair, but his general countenance aside I can't stand hearing his music.

I like his music but I cannot stand him as a person. He represents nothing about small town Indiana which he likes to say he does.

RedTeamGo!
09-29-2014, 09:57 AM
I am skeptical when someone comes out 20 years later and says "Song X wasn't about who I said it was all these years, it is about Y." I have no reason not to believe him, but why did he wait 22 years to release this little diddy?

$

bucksfan2
09-29-2014, 02:17 PM
$

How? It isn't like he is going to sell more songs? If he is going on tour maybe he is doing it to drum up interest, but I don't see how this makes him any more money. Maybe it gets him publicity, but to what extent. Mellencamp has been an after though for a long time now.

Dom Heffner
09-29-2014, 02:26 PM
I like his music but I cannot stand him as a person. He represents nothing about small town Indiana which he likes to say he does.

Most people don't stand up to scrutiny...it would definitely be tough to see this multi millionaire as a farm boy.

On the other hand, the video for "Rain on the Scarecrow" opened up with three farm boys, and the one that doesn't say anything, standing on the far left, I believe, now THAT is small town Indiana lol...

I joke, but that guy always cracked me up.

RedTeamGo!
09-29-2014, 03:55 PM
How? It isn't like he is going to sell more songs? If he is going on tour maybe he is doing it to drum up interest, but I don't see how this makes him any more money. Maybe it gets him publicity, but to what extent. Mellencamp has been an after though for a long time now.

I meant the reason he changed the song in the first place was for money. He sold out.

RedFanAlways1966
09-29-2014, 09:09 PM
Yeah. Maybe if I wasn't a Hoosier I could stand him, but no. Not that it's the most important factor but I saw him in Bloomington once, he's a jackass.

A few weeks ago I finished reading the biography of Ann & Nancy Wilson from Heart. Their short story about Mellencamp stuck with me. A very taboo thing to do in the music world lol. The below Rolling Stone story failed to mention that the Wilson sisters called him a known arrogant SOB in the music industry. There have been many of those in that industry.


In the fall of 1982, Heart had a brush with the legendary ego of John Cougar Mellencamp. The young singer was opening the band's tour behind Private Audition, Heart's first album that wasn't an immediate million-seller, when Mellencamp's "Jack and Diane" went to number one. He came to the band with a proposition: "Seeing as your album is a turkey and mine is a hit, care to swap places?" The Wilson sisters declined, reminding him that the tour had sold out before he'd even been announced as the opening act.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/juicy-tales-from-hearts-ann-and-nancy-wilson-20120911#ixzz3Ekw2BptU

Razor Shines
09-29-2014, 09:40 PM
A few weeks ago I finished reading the biography of Ann & Nancy Wilson from Heart. Their short story about Mellencamp stuck with me. A very taboo thing to do in the music world lol. The below Rolling Stone story failed to mention that the Wilson sisters called him a known arrogant SOB in the music industry. There have been many of those in that industry.

Lol. I'm sure all the fans that bought tickets to see Heart would have been thrilled.

For the most part I'm "I don't care if the artist is a jerk, just entertain me" guy but I just have heard too many stories about Johnny Cougar. I know people that grew up idolizing him and were just destroyed when they met him. It shouldn't matter but when I don't much care for the music in the first place...it kinda matters.

Slyder
09-30-2014, 01:40 AM
Lol. I'm sure all the fans that bought tickets to see Heart would have been thrilled.

For the most part I'm "I don't care if the artist is a jerk, just entertain me" guy but I just have heard too many stories about Johnny Cougar. I know people that grew up idolizing him and were just destroyed when they met him. It shouldn't matter but when I don't much care for the music in the first place...it kinda matters.

Never meet your heroes, it almost always leads to disappointment.

bucksfan2
09-30-2014, 08:55 AM
A few weeks ago I finished reading the biography of Ann & Nancy Wilson from Heart. Their short story about Mellencamp stuck with me. A very taboo thing to do in the music world lol. The below Rolling Stone story failed to mention that the Wilson sisters called him a known arrogant SOB in the music industry. There have been many of those in that industry.

When I was in college I was a pretty big Linkin Park fan. They were playing at the Newport Music Hall in Columbus and a few of my buddies decided to go. Little did we know what Linkin Park would be the opening act for both HEAD PE and Papa Roach. Kinda funny when you think about who opened up for who way back when.

RedTeamGo!
09-30-2014, 09:00 AM
When I was in college I was a pretty big Linkin Park fan. They were playing at the Newport Music Hall in Columbus and a few of my buddies decided to go. Little did we know what Linkin Park would be the opening act for both HEAD PE and Papa Roach. Kinda funny when you think about who opened up for who way back when.

Ha, ain't that the truth.

Around 2001-2002 I saw John Mayer open up for The Wallflowers at The House of Blues in Myrtle Beach, SC.

He was terrible. This was right around the time "No Such Thing" came out, so he was brand new. The guitar skill was obviously there, though.

RedFanAlways1966
09-30-2014, 11:22 AM
I know we have taken a turn here, but good stuff. I once went to see 80's hair metal band RATT at Dayton's Hara Arena (circa 1986?). RATT was big at the time and was the reason I went to the concert. The opening act for RATT that night? Some relatively unknown hair-metal group called Bon Jovi.

Rojo
09-30-2014, 05:21 PM
The opening act for RATT that night? Some relatively unknown hair-metal group called Bon Jovi.

And now you know.........the rest of the story.

Page 2.

Dom Heffner
09-30-2014, 05:29 PM
Ha, ain't that the truth.

Around 2001-2002 I saw John Mayer open up for The Wallflowers at The House of Blues in Myrtle Beach, SC.

He was terrible. This was right around the time "No Such Thing" came out, so he was brand new. The guitar skill was obviously there, though.

At that point he was only rabidly sleeping with B- groupies, so the music was suffering.

Bob Sheed
09-30-2014, 05:33 PM
At that point he was only rabidly sleeping with B- groupies, so the music was suffering.

I'd go out on a limb and say he's probably never had any trouble there, even before he was famous. He meets both requirements for casual and frequent sexy times with the ladies.

Dom Heffner
09-30-2014, 05:36 PM
I'd go out on a limb and say he's probably never had any trouble there, even before he was famous. He meets both requirements for casual and frequent sexy times with the ladies.

I think John Mayer would have been pummeled by the third period shop class at my high school.

Bob Sheed
09-30-2014, 06:00 PM
I think John Mayer would have been pummeled by the third period shop class at my high school.

Probably Justin Beiber and Davy Jones too.

Dom Heffner
09-30-2014, 07:06 PM
Don't forget Prince.

Boston Red
09-30-2014, 08:25 PM
I am skeptical when someone comes out 20 years later and says "Song X wasn't about who I said it was all these years, it is about Y." I have no reason not to believe him, but why did he wait 22 years to release this little diddy?

I'm not sure he planned to talk about that last week. It came out during his interview with Howard Stern on Monday.

He cannot remember how it was originally written, though, and had even forgotten the story until he came across the original lyrics written somewhere (this all according to his interview with Stern). In the context of the song, replacing football star with African American (would it have been Negro back then?) makes no sense: Jackie gonna be A, African American; Diane's the debutante of the back seat of Jackie's car.

Joseph
09-30-2014, 08:32 PM
First concert I ever saw was Skid Row. Opening act that night....Soundgarden. I now tell people the first band I ever saw in concert was Soundgarden. Its not a lie, I just didn't go to see them when I bought the tickets.

WrongVerb
09-30-2014, 08:44 PM
I need a lover is on my Slacker favs

That's my favorite of his songs. Pink Houses (as you mentioned) is another fav. After that it gets dicey. Authority Song, maybe. Cherry Bomb. Hurt So Good. That's probably my top five from him.

WrongVerb
09-30-2014, 08:53 PM
Don't forget Prince.

THE musical genius of the '80s.

Madonna and Axl Rose are a distant 2nd and 3rd.

JaxRed
09-30-2014, 09:05 PM
I'm not sure he planned to talk about that last week. It came out during his interview with Howard Stern on Monday.

He cannot remember how it was originally written, though, and had even forgotten the story until he came across the original lyrics written somewhere (this all according to his interview with Stern). In the context of the song, replacing football star with African American (would it have been Negro back then?) makes no sense: Jackie gonna be A, African American; Diane's the debutante of the back seat of Jackie's car.


Yeah my BS alarm is going off for this story also.

RedFanAlways1966
09-30-2014, 09:21 PM
First concert I ever saw was Skid Row. Opening act that night....Soundgarden. I now tell people the first band I ever saw in concert was Soundgarden. Its not a lie, I just didn't go to see them when I bought the tickets.

I once went to a Soundgarden concert w/ a band called Eleven as the opening band. My buddies and I were really into Soundgarden and even played a couple of their songs in a bar band I was in at the time. Needless to say we were fired up to see them for the first time. The opening band, Eleven, was a three person band and I had no idea who they were even though I knew a lot of bands at the time. Evidently the rest of the Dayton crowd did not know them either and were also anxious to see the headliners. Eleven played about 3 songs and were booed loudly. The singer/keyboardist started bad-mouthing the crowd after the third song when a bottle flew past his head (thank goodness he was not hit by it). I felt bad for them. After the bottle flew past him the entire band flipped off the crowd and their drummer (who was Jack Irons from the original Red Hot Chili Peppers and then the drummer in Pearl Jam) mooned the crowd. Well Soundgarden took the stage after their crew readied the stage for them. Chris Cornell mentioned that Eleven were their friends and they were not pleased with the treatment they received from the crowd. They played a very short show (about 8 songs IIRC), dropped their guitars (with volumes knobs still cranked) and left the stage with god-awful feedback screaming through the arena for a good 5 minutes. Then the arena lights came on... show over! No encore(s) and obviously an abbreviated set. PAYBACK! Man, we were bummed. The only other time I saw a band booed off the stage was Autograph ("Turn Up the Radio" lol) opening for Van Halen (1984 tour).

Hoosier Red
09-30-2014, 09:54 PM
My wife's a big Counting Crows fan and went to see Counting Crows-Live. She was quite upset that although she thought she was just going to miss half the opening act, she found out Counting Crows was the first band of a twinbill and she missed much of their set. The second act was of course Live.

She later explained that she thought the "Live" was just the description of the concert. I replied, "Well that doesn't make any sense. you're buying a ticket to a concert, it's pretty self explanatory that the concert is Live." "What are they going to do, go out and play a tape?"

She didn't talk to me for a while after that.

Razor Shines
09-30-2014, 10:50 PM
My wife's a big Counting Crows fan and went to see Counting Crows-Live. She was quite upset that although she thought she was just going to miss half the opening act, she found out Counting Crows was the first band of a twinbill and she missed much of their set. The second act was of course Live.

She later explained that she thought the "Live" was just the description of the concert. I replied, "Well that doesn't make any sense. you're buying a ticket to a concert, it's pretty self explanatory that the concert is Live." "What are they going to do, go out and play a tape?"

She didn't talk to me for a while after that.

I love this story. I would not have given my wife an explanation that involved "that doesn't make any sense". lol.

Dom Heffner
09-30-2014, 10:56 PM
THE musical genius of the '80s.

Madonna and Axl Rose are a distant 2nd and 3rd.

Prince is so overrated for me. I like Madonna and Axl...

Purple Rain is awesome, after that it just goes downhill.

I'll give him that When Doves Cry is an incredible piece of work..it's a top single of all time...but when I look at the whole body of work, I don't get all the praise.

Dom Heffner
09-30-2014, 10:59 PM
My wife's a big Counting Crows fan and went to see Counting Crows-Live. She was quite upset that although she thought she was just going to miss half the opening act, she found out Counting Crows was the first band of a twinbill and she missed much of their set. The second act was of course Live.

She later explained that she thought the "Live" was just the description of the concert. I replied, "Well that doesn't make any sense. you're buying a ticket to a concert, it's pretty self explanatory that the concert is Live." "What are they going to do, go out and play a tape?"

She didn't talk to me for a while after that.

In my radio days I did a show out at Earlham College, and I would routinely struggle with back/front selling the "live" version of "Pain Lies on the Riverside..."

"This is live Live..."

Redsfaithful
10-01-2014, 01:48 AM
Chris Cornell mentioned that Eleven were their friends and they were not pleased with the treatment they received from the crowd. They played a very short show (about 8 songs IIRC), dropped their guitars (with volumes knobs still cranked) and left the stage with god-awful feedback screaming through the arena for a good 5 minutes.

That must have really sucked at the time, but man that's a funny story now.

George Anderson
10-01-2014, 08:52 AM
A guy I work with years ago worked for a catering company that catered a party at Johnny Mellencamps house. He demanded in his contract with the catering company that if he caught anyone staring at him they were removed from the property immediately.

I also cracked up when I read last month that one of the reasons Johnny and Meg Ryan broke up was she was a NY girl and he couldnt stand NY. He said something like he hated walking around and seeing so many homeless people. This is the same guy who cares so much for the poor and down trodden and who also charges like $80 a ticket for his concerts but cant stand to be in a town with so many homeless...lol

Dom Heffner
10-01-2014, 12:21 PM
A guy I work with years ago worked for a catering company that catered a party at Johnny Mellencamps house. He demanded in his contract with the catering company that if he caught anyone staring at him they were removed from the property immediately.

I also cracked up when I read last month that one of the reasons Johnny and Meg Ryan broke up was she was a NY girl and he couldnt stand NY. He said something like he hated walking around and seeing so many homeless people. This is the same guy who cares so much for the poor and down trodden and who also charges like $80 a ticket for his concerts but cant stand to be in a town with so many homeless...lol

I was reading an interview with his former long-time drummer Kenny Aronoff. He politely paints a pretty rough picture of John Mellencamp.

The drum solo in "Jack and Diane" was written on the spot by Aronoff, who honestly felt his job was on the line. Constantly.

Some of these artists suffer from Marlon Brandon syndrome, where they are the weirdest of the weird, jerks, they treat some people in their lives terribly, but the world would be less without their art.


As an autograph collector, I have pictures of people on my wall that are pretty sinister human beings in some regards.

It does strike me as odd sometimes. I guess I rationalize it as I don't like John Mellencamp or Marlon Brando or whoever bercasue they are great people.

I like the art, and the rest is just unaffecting gossip.

Yachtzee
10-01-2014, 02:52 PM
My experience with Mellencamp was back when I worked as an usher at Blossom Music Center in college. He had his road crew wiping down the stage with white cotton cloth before the show and we had much stricter rules of conduct and crowd control for that show. The higher ups made it sound like people could get fired if there were any screw ups. We thought he was a big jerk.

During the show, I was stationed at one of the aisles leading to center stage when a young woman came up to me and shoved something in my hand. I look down and it's her bra. She said she wanted through so she could give "Johnny" something (implying underpants). I told her, "Trust me, I don't think he'd like that." She made a pouty face at me and when I refused, she went to try her luck elsewhere.

In retrospect, based on the wiping down of the stage and all the strict rules we were under, I've always wondered if John Cougar Mellencamp is a germophobe.