College Football playoff rankings are out

[Slyder]

So did Marshall do enough for the best of the rest bowl spot?

[Boston Red]

So did Marshall do enough for the best of the rest bowl spot?

No. Boise will get it with a win tonight.

[BuckeyeRed27]

1. Oregon
2. Alabama
3. FSU
4. Ohio State

[Slyder]

1. Oregon
2. Alabama
3. FSU
4. Ohio State

And if they want to make further mockery of the system that is exactly what they will do. They claim they start fresh, they also claim its about the TOTAL BODY of work... In this case how do you reward a team with a loss to VIRGINIA TECH?

[BuckeyeRed27]

And if they want to make further mockery of the system that is exactly what they will do. They claim they start fresh, they also claim its about the TOTAL BODY of work... In this case how do you reward a team with a loss to VIRGINIA TECH?

Because they have better wins and played a conference championship game.

[Boston Red]

Ohio State plays in an inferior league and has the worst loss (in fact, they're the only one of the three teams in contention to lose at home). The whole thing is a sham if Ohio State beats out TCU and Baylor.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Ohio State plays in an inferior league and has the worst loss (in fact, they're the only one of the three teams in contention to lose at home). The whole thing is a sham if Ohio State beats out TCU and Baylor.

The Big 10 isn't inferior to the Big 12.

[Boston Red]

The Big 10 isn't inferior to the Big 12.

It is, and it's not particularly close either.

[Slyder]

The Big 10 isn't inferior to the Big 12.

One of Iowa State's 2 wins was AT Iowa.

[BuckeyeRed27]

It is, and it's not particularly close either.

It must be close since it isn't true.

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One of Iowa State's 2 wins was AT Iowa.

And?

[Boston Red]

One of Iowa State's 2 wins was AT Iowa.

The Big Twelve was 3-0 against the Big Ten in all.

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It must be close since it isn't true.


From someone who's not a fan of either league....you're delusional.

[BuckeyeRed27]

The Big Twelve was 3-0 against the Big Ten in all.

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TCU and Baylor are good everyone else sucks which is exactly like Ohio State and Michigan St. You could make an argument either way or you know just call me delusional.
From someone who's not a fan of either league....you're delusional.

[dougdirt]

Who are the 4 best teams?

That's the question that should be answered. Not who plays in what conference or what their opponents did against other teams.

If Ohio State doesn't make it, then it had better be because someone else is better, not because Iowa, Minnesota and Northwestern didn't do something in September.

Just for craziness, even though I absolutely root for Ohio State, I think it would be wild to have Ohio State and Baylor not in.

Baylor would have he same record as, and a head to head win over a team that would be in the playoff.

Then you would have an 11-1 team that won a power conference championship game 59-0 that isn't in the playoff.

Chaos.

It's going to be chaotic no matter the answers tomorrow, but short of not having Florida State in, and I don't think that's a realistic option, that scenario would cause the biggest ripple.

[Slyder]

Here's Nate Silver's thoughts...

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/college-football-playoff-update-does-ohio-state-have-a-shot/

[GAC]

Here's Nate Silver's thoughts...

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/college-football-playoff-update-does-ohio-state-have-a-shot/

Very interesting. I agree, and think FSU is a lock, simply by what Nate emphasizes


would the committee really deny a 13-0 Florida State team a slot in the playoff entirely? Especially given that they’re the defending national champions and were also undefeated last year? Florida State, in fact, has not lost a football game in more than two years — they have a 29-game winning streak.

I also agree that this "controversy" certainly does give greater force to the call for a 6 or 8 team play-off (If anything).

[RedsBaron]

While I expect the final rankings will be (1) Alabama, (2) Oregon, (3) Florida State and (4) TCU, if I had a vote I would put Ohio State in the fourth slot and agree with the Commissioner of the Big 12 that TCU and Baylor are co-champions, and rank them as (5) and (5A).
I really think Alabama and Oregon are the two best teams in the country. FSU is the defending national champ, has won 29 straight games and is the only undefeated team out there-how can the Seminoles be left out despite how close their games have been? OSU, TC and Baylor is a virtual toss-up, but I would go with the Buckeyes, and I am not a Buckeye fan.
I would prefer an 8 team playoff.

[Stray]

I think it should be

1. Alabama
2. FSU
3. Oregon
4. Baylor

I think it will be

1. Alabama
2. Oregon
3. TCU
4. FSU

Ohio State looks great right now, but they have the worst loss of the three teams competing for that last spot by a mile. I think TCU is better than Baylor, but I don't know how you keep Baylor out with a head to head win over TCU, and the same record in the same conference.

Bama vs. FSU would be a great matchup tho.

[paintmered]

While I expect the final rankings will be (1) Alabama, (2) Oregon, (3) Florida State and (4) TCU, if I had a vote I would put Ohio State in the fourth slot and agree with the Commissioner of the Big 12 that TCU and Baylor are co-champions, and rank them as (5) and (5A).
I really think Alabama and Oregon are the two best teams in the country. FSU is the defending national champ, has won 29 straight games and is the only undefeated team out there-how can the Seminoles be left out despite how close their games have been? OSU, TC and Baylor is a virtual toss-up, but I would go with the Buckeyes, and I am not a Buckeye fan.
I would prefer an 8 team playoff.

Yep, it's coming down to three teams for one spot. And whichever team the committee chooses will go a long way for us to understand what they value.

If it's Ohio State - they're looking at the eye test and the quality of the team at the end of the season.

If it's TCU - they're looking at the entirety of the schedule. Who did you beat and who beat you?

If it's Baylor - they're comparing the relative conference strength and head-to-head match ups.

[Stray]

Then you would have an 11-1 team that won a power conference championship game 59-0 that isn't in the playoff.


That's fine and all, but in a four team scenario, if you lost at home to Virginia Tech this year you can't complain about being left out, imo. Virginia Tech was awful this year.

[jojo]

I'm just glad that the playoff system has eliminated the controversy.

[Stray]

I'm just glad that the playoff system has eliminated the controversy.

There's no system that'll eliminate it. Heck, the basketball tournament invites every team who is halfway decent and people still complain about this 16-12 team with a RPI of 45 not getting in when they had a quality road win against the #37 RPI team early in the season.

Go to 8 teams and ppl will complain about 9 and 10.

[Roy Tucker]

Yeah. I've got scarlet and gray colored glasses on, but can anyone honestly say they think Baylor or TCU would win the whole thing? I can't. But I think OSU would have a legitimate shot. I don't see how you can say they aren't on of the best 4 teams in the country now.

But I expect TCU to get the last slot. I think the committee goes with conventional safe logic.
Like what the polls always did. But an OSU pick would dodge the TCU/Baylor conundrum.

[Assembly Hall]

To me the irony in all this is that you got 3 teams going for one spot. Bama and Oregon deserve to be in. But Florida St., the most deserving, to me is the worst team of the 6 out there!

[RedFanAlways1966]

Virginia Tech was awful this year.

A 6-6 record is now awful. OK. What kind of description/word(s) do we use for teams with losing records? I am trying to think of a word that is below awful. Not coming up with anything. Maybe god awful?

I agree losing to VT does not help. And of course it is the only negative for the Buckeyes. And non-OSU fans will not allow themselves to see a team with a new QB and O-line that had serious issues in that game. A totally different team than what they are today, which is probably one of the 4 best teams in the country.

[Stray]

A 6-6 record is now awful. OK. What kind of description/word(s) do we use for teams with losing records? I am trying to think of a word that is below awful. Not coming up with anything. Maybe god awful?

I agree losing to VT does not help. And of course it is the only negative for the Buckeyes. And non-OSU fans will not allow themselves to see a team with a new QB and O-line that had serious issues in that game. A totally different team than what they are today, which is probably one of the 4 best teams in the country.

Virginia Tech was awful by Virginia Tech standards. They lost to a 3-9 Wake Forest team, Pittsburgh and East Carolina. All while winning at Ohio State.

I realize there's a lot of Ohio State fans here, and I get why people want them in, but if we're looking at Baylor, TCU and Ohio State the Buckeyes have the worst loss by far. West Virginia beat Baylor and was 7-5, but just looking at the records can be deceiving. 4 of West Virginia's 5 losses were to teams ranked 12th or better. And TCU's only loss was close, on the road, against a top 6 team.

The Big 10 isn't better than the Big 12, but even if it was, it wouldn't be so much better for Ohio State's identical record (with a worse loss) to look better than either Baylor or TCU.

[kaldaniels]

I've been hearing OSU has a tougher SOS than Baylor or TCU...would you agree with that Stray?

[Stray]

I've been hearing OSU has a tougher SOS than Baylor or TCU...would you agree with that Stray?

I honestly have no idea, though I would assume they'd all be relatively close. I don't root for any of these teams, but looking at their resumes it seems pretty obvious that Baylor and TCU's are better than Ohio State's.

To me, the real decision is TCU or Baylor, not if Ohio State should get in.

Not to mention, Baylor just beat a top 10 team last night.

[jojo]

I've been hearing OSU has a tougher SOS than Baylor or TCU...would you agree with that Stray?

Sagarin has TCU's schedule ranked 42, OSU's 52 and Baylor's 55th.

[kaldaniels]

I honestly have no idea, though I would assume they'd all be relatively close. I don't root for any of these teams, but looking at their resumes it seems pretty obvious that Baylor and TCU's are better than Ohio State's.

To me, the real decision is TCU or Baylor, not if Ohio State should get in.

Not to mention, Baylor just beat a top 10 team last night.

If one compares single losses and wins, shouldn't one also pursue overall SOS rather than having no idea?

[kaldaniels]

Sagarin has TCU's schedule ranked 42, OSU's 52 and Baylor's 55th.

I've been hearing different things from different rankings so I'm not too hardheaded about it...but SOS should be discussed. Just looking at Sag's rankings is not the way to go IMO.

[Stray]

If one compares single losses and wins, shouldn't one also pursue overall SOS rather than having no idea?

If the losses are that similar, sure.

TCU lost on the road by 3 points to #6 Baylor.
Ohio State lost at home by 14 points to Virginia Tech.

What kinda SOS difference are we talking about that'll swing that in Ohio State's favor?

[RedTeamGo!]

Big OSU fan here - you can't lose to va tech. It's that simple, and that is going to be the committees justification when they leave OSU out.

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If the losses are that similar, sure.

TCU lost on the road by 3 points to #6 Baylor.
Ohio State lost at home by 14 points to Virginia Tech.

What kinda SOS difference are we talking about that'll swing that in Ohio State's favor?

Espn last night said OSU had a better SOS than both Baylor and TCU

[Roy Tucker]

Which of those 3 teams would have the best chance against Alabama?

[Sea Ray]

It'll also be interesting to see if the committee holds OSU's double OT win over PSU against them. Neither TCU or Baylor needed OT to knock someone off.

The best thing OSU has going for them is that by picking them the committee can avoid the TCU-Baylor conundrum. This will be fun at 12:30pm today

[Stray]

Which of those 3 teams would have the best chance against Alabama?

I think Bama will beat any of them, but of the three teams I think TCU has the best chance.

[Sea Ray]

Which of those 3 teams would have the best chance against Alabama?

It's hard to say. After the way OSU looked vs Mich, I'd take TCU or Baylor. Last night OSU looked totally different

[forfreelin04]

ESPN's front page article says it believes OSU is in. Remember the Sugar Bowl is on ESPN.

In my opinion, if OSU gets in it's about money, but it will billed as "the best teams at the moment." If TCU gets in then it's about the body of work regardless of revenue.

I told my wife last night about the playoff and I told her about TCU. She had no idea what college that was. I'm guessing many people across the country don't either.

[Assembly Hall]

I personally think that TCU should be eliminated from the conversation because they lost head to head with Baylor. It has always been my opinion that in college football you should be your conference champion to play for a NC. With them out of the equation I look at the body of work. Right here, right now that Va Tech loss looms large for the Bucks. It aint that the Hokies are a bad program, but they did have a miserable season by their standards as someone pointed out here. To me Baylor should get in.

[jojo]

Big OSU fan here - you can't lose to va tech. It's that simple, and that is going to be the committees justification when they leave OSU out.

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Espn last night said OSU had a better SOS than both Baylor and TCU

"ESPN" is well known for being stupid and that statement is kinda not compelling.

[Assembly Hall]

It's hard to say. After the way OSU looked vs Mich, I'd take TCU or Baylor. Last night OSU looked totally different


To be honest I don't think the Bucks last 3 games looked very good leading up to the Wisconsin title game. But one could argue that Florida St. hasn't been impressive either, the whole year!

[Roy Tucker]

No matter what, there are going to be 2 teams with legit credentials on the outside. The committee is going to get a lot of groef no matter what they do.

[Assembly Hall]

No matter what, there are going to be 2 teams with legit credentials on the outside. The committee is going to get a lot of groef no matter what they do.

Yep, you got that right.

[paintmered]

I personally think that TCU should be eliminated from the conversation because they lost head to head with Baylor. It has always been my opinion that in college football you should be your conference champion to play for a NC. With them out of the equation I look at the body of work. Right here, right now that Va Tech loss looms large for the Bucks. It aint that the Hokies are a bad program, but they did have a miserable season by their standards as someone pointed out here. To me Baylor should get in.

Nebraska played in the BCS championship game after getting blown out by Colorado in the Big XII title game. So even when there were only two teams chosen, it wasn't a given that they'd exclusively be conference champions.

[Boston Red]

So TCU gets eliminated for losing at Baylor, but Baylor and Ohio State do not get eliminated for losing at West Virginia and at home to Virginia Tech, respectively (and by significantly larger margins)?!? What kind of sense does that make?

[Todd Gack]

So TCU gets eliminated for losing at Baylor, but Baylor and Ohio State do not get eliminated for losing at West Virginia and at home to Virginia Tech, respectively (and by significantly larger margins)?!? What kind of sense does that make?

I can't fathom how a team in the Final 4 has a loss on their resume to the 2014 Virginia Tech Hokies. . . .no matter how early in the season.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Who was TCU's best win? Do you think TCU will get punished for only beating Kansas by 4 on the road and trailing late?

The easiest way to solve the Big 12 team issue is to leave them both out. Then maybe the conference will get 12 teams and a championship game like they should have done already. They can't even decide who their real champion is right now.

[jimbo]

So TCU gets eliminated for losing at Baylor, but Baylor and Ohio State do not get eliminated for losing at West Virginia and at home to Virginia Tech, respectively (and by significantly larger margins)?!? What kind of sense does that make?

With this thinking, we might as well go back to letting a computer decide who gets in.

Isn't it about getting the four best teams in the country into the playoff? Do you really feel Ohio State shouldn't be in that conversation based souly on that one loss from week two?

[Boston Red]

With this thinking, we might as well go back to letting a computer decide who gets in.

Isn't it about getting the four best teams in the country into the playoff? Do you really feel Ohio State shouldn't be in that conversation based souly on that one loss from week two?

What line of thinking? You don't think it's relevant who teams beat and lost to? As for the four best, I think OSU is better than Florida State and not as good as Baylor and TCU. Can't keep FSU out, though, so I think it should be between Baylor and TCU. I'd go with TCU.

[villain612]

Opponents records by team:

Ohio State 84-60
TCU 61-70
Baylor 61-70

[Boston Red]

Records of teams that beat them:

Ohio State 6-6
Baylor 7-5
TCU 11-1

[villain612]

Records of teams that beat them:

Ohio State 6-6
Baylor 7-5
TCU 11-1


So they each have one loss then right?

[Stray]

I'm not sure how you can justify dropping TCU two spots. That they were 3 last week makes me believe that it'll be the same four teams this week.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Opponents records by team:

Ohio State 84-60
TCU 61-70
Baylor 61-70

OSU also played the most bowl eligible teams than anyone else.

[BuckeyeRed27]

I'm not sure how you can justify dropping TCU two spots. That they were 3 last week makes me believe that it'll be the same four teams this week.

The committee has moved teams every week based on that weeks games. Why do you think they'll stop now. They said last week they hadn't considered the head to head between Baylor/TCU yet, which they obviously have to do now.

[Kilgore_Trout]

I'm not sure how you can justify dropping TCU two spots. That they were 3 last week makes me believe that it'll be the same four teams this week.

You're probably right. But personally, I'm not sure how anyone can justify TCU being ahead of Baylor. If, as the committee has maintained all season, they "clear the board" and look at all the information available to them in that moment, Baylor has to be ahead of TCU. Head-to-head has to mean something. So does beating Oklahoma on the road by 34 points. I think people are paying too much attention to the worst loss and not enough to the best wins.

[Stray]

The committee has moved teams every week based on that weeks games. Why do you think they'll stop now. They said last week they hadn't considered the head to head between Baylor/TCU yet, which they obviously have to do now.

If TCU had been 4 last week I'd agree, but I don't see them dropping two spots after a 52 point win, regardless of opponent.

[Stray]

You're probably right. But personally, I'm not sure how anyone can justify TCU being ahead of Baylor.

Agreed. Even though I think TCU is probably better on a neutral field, I don't think it's right to pass on Baylor for TCU since Baylor won that matchup.

[villain612]

If the committee thinks TCU is one of the 4 best teams in the country then fine.

But pick them for that reason, not just because they were ranked 3rd last week and they don't want to make themselves look bad.

[Stray]

Think it'll be TCU, think it should be Baylor...

[Kilgore_Trout]

Think it'll be TCU, think it should be Baylor...

I'll say TCU, but I'm wearing my scarlet-colored glasses... Buckeyes should be in.

[villain612]

I think OSU should get the spot....but if TCU gets it over Baylor, then that's just criminal.

[Assembly Hall]

Nebraska played in the BCS championship game after getting blown out by Colorado in the Big XII title game. So even when there were only two teams chosen, it wasn't a given that they'd exclusively be conference champions.

I could be wrong, but I think you are mistaken. Colorado and Nebraska were in the same division in the Big12. If memory serves me correctly, the Buffs blew them out in the last regular season game. That was the Huskers only loss of the year. But I could be wrong.

[Stray]

Wow they did it. TCU from 3rd to 6th in five days, with a 52 point win.

How the heck does that work lol

[Assembly Hall]

So TCU gets eliminated for losing at Baylor, but Baylor and Ohio State do not get eliminated for losing at West Virginia and at home to Virginia Tech, respectively (and by significantly larger margins)?!? What kind of sense does that make?

For TCU not being the conference champ.

[villain612]

Wow they did it. TCU from 3rd to 6th in five days, with a 52 point win.

How the heck does that work lol


Not having a conference championship game and ending the season against Iowa State.

Granted, not their fault. But still.

[Slyder]

Think it'll be TCU, think it should be Baylor...

Baylor is a statement about ooc schedule.

[Stray]

Not having a conference championship game and ending the season against Iowa State.

Granted, not their fault. But still.

They didn't cancel the B12 championship game on Wednesday. TCU dropped 3 spots with 12 people in 5 days, and had a 52 point win in that span. That doesn't make sense to me.

FWIW, I think this is the best four from an entertainment perspective, but I think TCU got hosed.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Wow they did it. TCU from 3rd to 6th in five days, with a 52 point win.

How the heck does that work lol

59-0

[villain612]

They didn't cancel the B12 championship game on Wednesday. TCU dropped 3 spots with 12 people in 5 days, and had a 52 point win in that span. That doesn't make sense to me.

FWIW, I think this is the best four from an entertainment perspective, but I think TCU got hosed.

Previous rankings don't mean anything.

They start fresh each week.

The committee would be better off just not even releasing rankings each week and just do one at the end when it matters.

[Chip R]

Margin of victory matters. If tOSU won 14-13 last night, they would be on the outside looking in. It may not officially matter but it has to make an impact on the voters.

[villain612]

59-0

Yup.

8260

[Stray]

Previous rankings don't mean anything.

They start fresh each week.

The committee would be better off just not even releasing rankings each week and just do one at the end when it matters.

I get that, but I don't think that makes any sense.

Obviously they mean something. Either that's how the committee felt the teams should be ranked 5 days ago, or it's made for tv drama to give the talking heads something to talk about.

If 12 people felt like TCU was 3rd 5 days ago, something bad should happen for them to think they're 6th today.

[RedTeamGo!]

As I said months ago and was ridiculed by much of redszone: in the end it comes down to money/ratings - Ohio State is simply a much bigger national draw than Baylor or TCU.

[Todd Gack]

Baylor is a statement about ooc schedule.

Like Marshall?

[villain612]

I get that, but I don't think that makes any sense.

Obviously they mean something. Either that's how the committee felt the teams should be ranked 5 days ago, or it's made for tv drama to give the talking heads something to talk about.

If 12 people felt like TCU was 3rd 5 days ago, something bad should happen for them to think they're 6th today.

They stated that they judge games as they're played, not what's ahead on the schedule.

At the time of TCU's ranking, the Big Ten title game hadn't happened yet.

It obviously changed the equation.

[Todd Gack]

As I said months ago and was ridiculed by much of redszone: in the end it comes down to money/ratings - Ohio State is simply a much bigger national draw than Baylor or TCU.

Bingo.

[Boston Red]

Congrats to UC.

[Kilgore_Trout]

I get that, but I don't think that makes any sense.

Obviously they mean something. Either that's how the committee felt the teams should be ranked 5 days ago, or it's made for tv drama to give the talking heads something to talk about.

If 12 people felt like TCU was 3rd 5 days ago, something bad should happen for them to think they're 6th today.

I don't think anything "bad" happened. Baylor beat TCU head-to-head, then beat a top ten team by two scores. Ohio State, on the other hand, dominated a top 15 team and won an outright conference championship in doing so. Florida State also won an outright conference championship by beating an 11th ranked GT team that's looked pretty darn good the past several weeks. TCU, at no fault of their own, dominated a bad Iowa State team. I think they simply evaluated the entirety of their respective resumes and concluded that Ohio State and Baylor were better than TCU. I agree with that assessment. I just think they waited a bit too long to finally show that head-to-head matters.

[villain612]

The Ohio State conspiracy is bogus. This is the first time college football has ever had a playoff - they don't need OSU to get the ratings. The ratings will be there.


At the end of the day, Ohio State, TCU and Baylor all had pretty equal resumes.

Except the Big 12 didn't have a conference championship game and not only did Ohio State win theirs, it was an absolute destruction of a pretty good Wisconsin team who had a Heisman candidate on the team.

Simple as that.

[Assembly Hall]

I don't think anything "bad" happened. Baylor beat TCU head-to-head, then beat a top ten team by two scores. Ohio State, on the other hand, dominated a top 15 team and won an outright conference championship in doing so. Florida State also won an outright conference championship by beating an 11th ranked GT team that's looked pretty darn good the past several weeks. TCU, at no fault of their own, dominated a bad Iowa State team. I think they simply evaluated the entirety of their respective resumes and concluded that Ohio State and Baylor were better than TCU. I agree with that assessment. I just think they waited a bit too long to finally show that head-to-head matters.

I completely concur. It aint TCU's fault one bit. The schedule is what it is and things play out as they will.

[kaldaniels]

Instead of "I was wrong" we are getting the "money/ratings" excuse for OSU making it I see.

Each one-loss team had its pros and cons and OSU came out ahead. No need to post theories that have no proof.

[RedTeamGo!]

I love OSU and am glad they made it - I said the money/ratings thing before the season started - you can check my post history.

[dougdirt]

To me the irony in all this is that you got 3 teams going for one spot. Bama and Oregon deserve to be in. But Florida St., the most deserving, to me is the worst team of the 6 out there!

So they aren't the most deserving them if you think they are the 6th best team of the group.

[kaldaniels]

I think the error, which I can't deny did happen, was putting TCU at 3 last week.


I get that, but I don't think that makes any sense.

Obviously they mean something. Either that's how the committee felt the teams should be ranked 5 days ago, or it's made for tv drama to give the talking heads something to talk about.

If 12 people felt like TCU was 3rd 5 days ago, something bad should happen for them to think they're 6th today.

[jojo]

The playoffs are dead!

There needs to be an 8 team playoff.

[dougdirt]

Previous rankings don't mean anything.

They start fresh each week.

The committee would be better off just not even releasing rankings each week and just do one at the end when it matters.

Yes and no. The information available on TCU didn't really change. The information on Florida State didn't really change. Yet they went from +1 on FSU to -3. That's a four spot swing with the exact same information. And it's incredibly stupid.

If they hadn't done rankings until now and the rankings came out today like they did, there isn't a problem. But they did rankings in the past. The information on those two particular teams didn't change, but there was a 4 ranking swing.

[villain612]

Yes and no. The information available on TCU didn't really change. The information on Florida State didn't really change. Yet they went from +1 on FSU to -3. That's a four spot swing with the exact same information. And it's incredibly stupid.

If they hadn't done rankings until now and the rankings came out today like they did, there isn't a problem. But they did rankings in the past. The information on those two particular teams didn't change, but there was a 4 ranking swing.

There was a 4 ranking swing based on what happened in Ohio State's conference championship game.

[Kilgore_Trout]

Claiming that the decision to include tOSU ultimately came down to money is wrong, in my opinion. I don't care if you're a Buckeyes fan or not. To do so would be to call into question the integrity of every single committee member. I'd argue that that panel is overflowing with repute and distinction, and to say that those individuals are driven by money is tantamount to calling them cowards and thieves. Have fun with that.

[paintmered]

Congrats, Buckeys.:thumbup:

[jojo]

Claiming that the decision to include tOSU ultimately came down to money is wrong, in my opinion. I don't care if you're a Buckeyes fan or not. To do so would be to call into question the integrity of every single committee member. I'd argue that that panel is overflowing with repute and distinction, and to say that those individuals are driven by money is tantamount to calling them cowards and thieves. Have fun with that.

Big change of heart from Big Ten fan's cry that the fix is in when they didn't like how SEC teams were ranked. It's kinda funny.

[dougdirt]

There was a 4 ranking swing based on what happened in Ohio State's conference championship game.

How? How is what Ohio State did affecting how TCU went from being ranked 1 spot ahead of Florida State to 3 spots behind them? It has nothing to do with Ohio State. None.

If Ohio State is better than TCU now in the eyes of the committee, then they should be ahead of Florida State too. Absolutely no information changed on Florida State or TCU based on what happened this weekend in terms of those two teams being compared to each other. Yet their rankings changed drastically when compared to each other. That should not have happened.

I have no problem with Ohio State being in. I have a problem with TCU going from being better than Florida State last week and now being ranked 3 spots behind them. You simply can't make a logical argument for that to happen with how the last week has played out.

[dougdirt]

Claiming that the decision to include tOSU ultimately came down to money is wrong, in my opinion. I don't care if you're a Buckeyes fan or not. To do so would be to call into question the integrity of every single committee member. I'd argue that that panel is overflowing with repute and distinction, and to say that those individuals are driven by money is tantamount to calling them cowards and thieves. Have fun with that.

You do realize that this is the NCAA we are talking about, right? They are cowards. They are thieves.

[Kilgore_Trout]

Big change of heart from Big Ten fan's cry that the fix is in when they didn't like how SEC teams were ranked. It's kinda funny.

Perhaps for some Big Ten fans, that's true. But I've never once called into question the integrity of the committee. I'll admit to being frustrated with their rankings at times, but I'm not one to jump on board with conspiracy theories.

Had Ohio State won a close, hard-fought game, they would have been kept out. No question. Instead, they dominated a top 15 team en route to arguably the most important statement of the season. I think they earned their right to play for a championship.

[Kilgore_Trout]

You do realize that this is the NCAA we are talking about, right? They are cowards. They are thieves.

100% true. I'm as anti-NCAA as they come.

In the same breath, I wouldn't be one to claim that the committee had ulterior motives because a team made it that I didn't think should. I think the committee made the right call. I don't think they did it for money or as a means to appease a large fan-base.

[Assembly Hall]

So they aren't the most deserving them if you think they are the 6th best team of the group.

That aint what I said or what I meant. They deserve to be there the most, I just think they are not one of the 4 best teams in the country.

[villain612]

How? How is what Ohio State did affecting how TCU went from being ranked 1 spot ahead of Florida State to 3 spots behind them? It has nothing to do with Ohio State. None.

If Ohio State is better than TCU now in the eyes of the committee, then they should be ahead of Florida State too. Absolutely no information changed on Florida State or TCU based on what happened this weekend in terms of those two teams being compared to each other. Yet their rankings changed drastically when compared to each other. That should not have happened.

I have no problem with Ohio State being in. I have a problem with TCU going from being better than Florida State last week and now being ranked 3 spots behind them. You simply can't make a logical argument for that to happen with how the last week has played out.

Long stated specifically that it wasn't really what TCU did or didn't do this week, but what the other teams did to surpass them.

Both Ohio State and Florida State won conference championship games over top 15 teams. Those wins weren't there the previous week.

That pretty much explains it.

[RedTeamGo!]

100% true. I'm as anti-NCAA as they come.

In the same breath, I wouldn't be one to claim that the committee had ulterior motives because a team made it that I didn't think should. I think the committee made the right call. I don't think they did it for money or as a means to appease a large fan-base.

In jojo world all OSU fans are exactly the same and think exactly the same way.

[dougdirt]

That aint what I said or what I meant. They deserve to be there the most, I just think they are not one of the 4 best teams in the country.

So you want a playoff system where the best four teams aren't in it?

[dougdirt]

Long stated specifically that it wasn't really what TCU did or didn't do this week, but what the other teams did to surpass them.

Both Ohio State and Florida State won conference championship games over top 15 teams. Those wins weren't there the previous week.

That pretty much explains it.

Except that explanation doesn't work for me with Florida State. Sure, they won over a top 15 team. But they should have won. And it isn't like they did so impressively. I get moving up Ohio State because they did something that just shouldn't happen. I don't get saying that Florida State having a 2-point win over Georgia Tech jumps them ahead of TCU who won by 50 over a team they should have been expected to beat by 50. I also don't buy that if TCU was ranked ahead of Baylor that what happened this week should have changed that either. Yes, Baylor had a good win over a good team. But as the higher ranked team, they should have won that game. To me, the only team that changed information this week was Ohio State. Yet Florida State, Baylor and TCU all saw their rankings move when compared to each other and I can't put that together given the rankings of last week.

[villain612]

Except that explanation doesn't work for me with Florida State. Sure, they won over a top 15 team. But they should have won. And it isn't like they did so impressively. I get moving up Ohio State because they did something that just shouldn't happen. I don't get saying that Florida State having a 2-point win over Georgia Tech jumps them ahead of TCU who won by 50 over a team they should have been expected to beat by 50. I also don't buy that if TCU was ranked ahead of Baylor that what happened this week should have changed that either. Yes, Baylor had a good win over a good team. But as the higher ranked team, they should have won that game. To me, the only team that changed information this week was Ohio State. Yet Florida State, Baylor and TCU all saw their rankings move when compared to each other and I can't put that together given the rankings of last week.

You need to factor in that Florida State is undefeated. That, in addition to what they did yesterday sealed the deal for them.

[Assembly Hall]

So you want a playoff system where the best four teams aren't in it?

Let me ask you this Doug. Do you think FSU is one of the 4 best teams in the country? They were one loss from being eliminated from this discussion altogether. I think they deserve to be there based on the fact that they are undefeated. But let's face it, undefeated or not, they aint #1. But undefeated from a power conference, is undefeated. You go undefeated, you should be in the mix.

Let me put it another way. Let's say 5 teams were undefeated this year. Bama, Ohio St., Oregon, Baylor, and FSU. How does the resume look then?

[Boston Red]

You need to factor in that Florida State is undefeated. That, in addition to what they did yesterday sealed the deal for them.

I agree, but what the committee did still doesn't make any sense. FSU was just as undefeated last week when they were ranked behind TCU.

[jojo]

Had Ohio State won a close, hard-fought game, they would have been kept out. No question. Instead, they dominated a top 15 team en route to arguably the most important statement of the season. I think they earned their right to play for a championship.

That might be true but I tend to think that all OSU had to do last night was win because the Big 12 completely does itself a disservice by not having a conference championship game and this year, a wild OT game made it impossible for the committee to do what I think it was inclined to do with TCU-put a one loss team without a conference crown in over a one loss conference champ.

The system really needs to be 8 teams IMHO and the controversy would all but be quieted to a murmur of agitated kvetching.

But in related arguments, I do think this notion that "evaluating a team's resume by considering their context is an approach lacking intellectual merit" to be pretty utterly ludicrous especially when it's stated on a baseball oriented board where no one would argue OPSing .850 in the PCL was the same thing as OPSing .850 in the Southern league.

[dougdirt]

You need to factor in that Florida State is undefeated. That, in addition to what they did yesterday sealed the deal for them.

Why? Did the committee gain information that Florida State was better than Georgia Tech? Were they unsure about that before yesterday? If they were then why were they so far apart in the rankings? If anything, given the rankings, Florida State should have dropped with how close that game was.

Again, if they had no rankings prior to this, I'm fine with it. But they sat there and told us how they ranked the teams just last week.

[jojo]

Why? Did the committee gain information that Florida State was better than Georgia Tech? Were they unsure about that before yesterday? If they were then why were they so far apart in the rankings? If anything, given the rankings, Florida State should have dropped with how close that game was.

Again, if they had no rankings prior to this, I'm fine with it. But they sat there and told us how they ranked the teams just last week.

This just points out how utterly worthless the rankings shows have been. Fans should remember that next season and given them no audience.

[dougdirt]

Let me ask you this Doug. Do you think FSU is one of the 4 best teams in the country? They were one loss from being eliminated from this discussion altogether. I think they deserve to be there based on the fact that they are undefeated. But let's face it, undefeated or not, they aint #1. But undefeated from a power conference, is undefeated. You go undefeated, you should be in the mix.

Let me put it another way. Let's say 5 teams were undefeated this year. Bama, Ohio St., Oregon, Baylor, and FSU. How does the resume look then?

Do I think they are? No, I don't.

I can't see them not being put in though because if you win all of your games, you deserve to be in. My issue is saying last week that TCU was better than Florida State but this week they aren't and now they also aren't better than Baylor. The information on those three teams didn't change this week.

[villain612]

Why? Did the committee gain information that Florida State was better than Georgia Tech? Were they unsure about that before yesterday?

Because never losing a game all year means something.

They're the only team out of 128 who are undefeated.

[jimbo]

FSU was just as undefeated last week when they were ranked behind TCU.

With one less win against a top 20 team and one less conference championship.

[Boston Red]

With one less win against a top 20 team and one less conference championship.

I'm with Doug. That's not enough to move FSU ahead of TCU. If they had them there all along, fine. But to switch them after this weekend? Makes zero sense.

[BuckeyeRed27]

If expansion happens I think 6 is the number not 8. Gives a bye to the top 2 teams and lets all the conference champions in most years. At 8 there is too much of a chance of letting in an undeserving team.

[dougdirt]

Because never losing a game all year means something.

They're the only team out of 128 who are undefeated.

Then don't rank anyone with a loss above them. Yet just last week three teams with a loss were ahead of them. This week two of them still are and the one team that they did jump won by 52 points.

What information was provided by Florida State and by TCU in their games this weekend that explains their rankings this week compared to last week? I'm not seeing an ounce of explainable information that can make last week and this weeks rankings add up.

Again, if they just came out with a final ranking and it was how it is right now, I'd have no issue with it. But they said last week that TCU > Florida State. A 2 point win over a team Florida State should beat according to their own rankings and a dismantling of a bad team by TCU that they should have dismantled shouldn't be changing any information.

[Boston Red]

Speaking of the rankings, congrats to Mississippi State on their fabulous showing this bye week! Obviously much more impressive than the Spartans. Welcome to Miami!

[nmculbreth]

I guess there will always be some sort of consternation when you're dealing with such a limited number of teams being included but I don't understand why people are so upset with TCU dropping a few spots, given that all of the teams behind them added quality wins and TCU didn't. I think the biggest mistake the committee made was publishing their rankings on a week-to-week basis, but I appreciate that they're trying to make their rankings based on each team's body of work up until that point rather than keeping a fairly fixed list that only changes when a team loses.

TCU clearly had the best loss of the teams vying for the final spot but their best win isn't nearly as impressive as either OSU or Baylor. I'd rather have the committee reward the team with the best win (which IMHO is Baylor) than rewarding the team with the best loss, but at the end of the day I think any of the three would have been deserving of the final spot.

[villain612]

Then don't rank anyone with a loss above them. Yet just last week three teams with a loss were ahead of them. This week two of them still are and the one team that they did jump won by 52 points.

What information was provided by Florida State and by TCU in their games this weekend that explains their rankings this week compared to last week? I'm not seeing an ounce of explainable information that can make last week and this weeks rankings add up.

Again, if they just came out with a final ranking and it was how it is right now, I'd have no issue with it. But they said last week that TCU > Florida State. A 2 point win over a team Florida State should beat according to their own rankings and a dismantling of a bad team by TCU that they should have dismantled shouldn't be changing any information.

I see where you're coming from Doug on this one. You're not wrong. But you are stating an opinion. Apparently, it was the opinion of the committee that winning their conference championship game over a top 15 was enough to move them up one spot. The fact that Alabama and Oregon are still ranked ahead of them is not illogical. The committee is saying that even though they're undefeated and they just won a big game, they still don't think Florida State is better than those two particular teams.

In my opinion, TCU has nothing to whine about in all this. Baylor is the one who has a gripe. They should be mad at their conference for not replacing all the teams who left over the past few years and for not getting a conference title game together. They should also be mad for that "co champions" crap. The Big 12 tried to play both sides of the coin and it backfired. They should have been backing up Baylor all along. When both teams have a loss, the tie always goes to the head-to-head winner.

[Chip R]

That might be true but I tend to think that all OSU had to do last night was win because the Big 12 completely does itself a disservice by not having a conference championship game and this year, a wild OT game made it impossible for the committee to do what I think it was inclined to do with TCU-put a one loss team without a conference crown in over a one loss conference champ.

Doesn't a conference have to have 12 teams to have a championship game?

[Kilgore_Trout]

Is it safe to say that the biggest winner in all of this was ESPN? More and more people are taking the mic to call for an eight team playoff, which means only one thing for the self proclaimed worldwide leader in sports: more games, more money. It's only a matter of time.

[RedsBaron]

I do not claim to know for sure who is the better team among OSU, TCU and Baylor, so I wouldn't have been outraged by whoever made the four. As I stated in my earlier post, Alabama, Oregon, FSU and OSU were the four I would pick, so I have no complaints that the committee made the same choice.
I really am amused that the commissioner of the Big 12 decided to ignore head-to-head meetings and declared TCU and Baylor co-champions. Terrific. They are now both outside looking in.

[Kilgore_Trout]

I do not claim to know for sure who is the better team among OSU, TCU and Baylor, so I wouldn't have been outraged by whoever made the four. As I stated in my earlier post, Alabama, Oregon, FSU and OSU were the four I would pick, so I have no complaints that the committee made the same choice.
I really am amused that the commissioner of the Big 12 decided to ignore head-to-head meetings and declared TCU and Baylor co-champions. Terrific. They are now both outside looking in.

"One True Champion!"

:laugh:

[19braves77]

I am happy what happened to the Big 12. For years they catered to the needs of Texas to the point that Nebraska, Colorado, Missouri, and Texas AM realized their interests were not important. Any team outside of Texas is going to ask this question before they join: "Are we going to have a Big 12-Network, you know like the very successful SEC Network and how will this effect the Longhorns network ?" Texas controls the Big 12 and Texas is happy that TCU and Baylor were left out. In fact, Texas probably prefers this model until they are competitive enough for it to matter to them. Finally, for Big 12 to get a waiver, it has to be approved by the other big conferences and that isn't happening.

[jojo]

Doesn't a conference have to have 12 teams to have a championship game?

They need to add schools. But that's not a problem.

[villain612]

I'd like to see the Big 12 add Boise State.

[RiverRat13]

Interesting that Jeff Sagarin is no longer a topic of conversation when discussing Ohio State's worthiness to those posters who referenced him earlier in the thread.

[jojo]

Interesting that Jeff Sagarin is no longer a topic of conversation when discussing Ohio State's worthiness to those posters who referenced him earlier in the thread.

How so?

[Assembly Hall]

Doesn't a conference have to have 12 teams to have a championship game?

Yes, they do.

[Assembly Hall]

I am happy what happened to the Big 12. For years they catered to the needs of Texas to the point that Nebraska, Colorado, Missouri, and Texas AM realized their interests were not important. Any team outside of Texas is going to ask this question before they join: "Are we going to have a Big 12-Network, you know like the very successful SEC Network and how will this effect the Longhorns network ?" Texas controls the Big 12 and Texas is happy that TCU and Baylor were left out. In fact, Texas probably prefers this model until they are competitive enough for it to matter to them. Finally, for Big 12 to get a waiver, it has to be approved by the other big conferences and that isn't happening.

It always amazed me that a storied conference would have so many "defections". Just never understood it at all. Nebraska leaving the Big 12 is like USC or UCLA leaving the Pac 12.

[JaxRed]

TCU and/or Baylor got hosed. (and I'm an Ohio State fan). Had TCU/Baylor gone in Ohio State would have been screwed. So here's how to solve the problem. An 8 team playoff. That part doesn't solve the problem. This part does.....

Make it a playoff of conference champions. You want in? Win your Conference. Didn't win your conference? You are not in.

There are 10 conferences and 1 set of Independents (which includes Notre Dame)

Seven of those conferences are a step above the others. They are:

1. SEC
2. ACC
3. Big 10
4. Big 12
5. PAC 12
6. AAC
7. Mountain West

Those 7 conference winners automatically get in. Then you have some system to pick one other conference champion from

Conf USA
MAC
Sunbelt
Independents

As far as seeding, I would only seed 1-4. And draw their opponents randomly. That way one conference (AAC for example) doesn't get perennially "judged" to be the weakest and therefore faces the #1 seed every year.

This system is specifically NOT designed to pick the best teams. If you do that it becomes a beauty contest and you have the same arguments every year. This system is designed to crown a national champion from conference champions.

[Assembly Hall]

TCU and/or Baylor got hosed. (and I'm an Ohio State fan). Had TCU/Baylor gone in Ohio State would have been screwed. So here's how to solve the problem. An 8 team playoff. That part doesn't solve the problem. This part does.....

Make it a playoff of conference champions. You want in? Win your Conference. Didn't win your conference? You are not in.

There are 10 conferences and 1 set of Independents (which includes Notre Dame)

Seven of those conferences are a step above the others. They are:

1. SEC
2. ACC
3. Big 10
4. Big 12
5. PAC 12
6. AAC
7. Mountain West

Those 7 conference winners automatically get in. Then you have some system to pick one other conference champion from

Conf USA
MAC
Sunbelt
Independents

As far as seeding, I would only seed 1-4. And draw their opponents randomly. That way one conference (AAC for example) doesn't get perennially "judged" to be the weakest and therefore faces the #1 seed every year.

This system is specifically NOT designed to pick the best teams. If you do that it becomes a beauty contest and you have the same arguments every year. This system is designed to crown a national champion from conference champions.


Jax, I have been preaching this for years. It makes total logic sense......kinda like the NCAA basketball tournament used to be ran back in the day. The only problem is getting the bowl system to get on board.

[dougdirt]

Jax, I have been preaching this for years. It makes total logic sense......kinda like the NCAA basketball tournament used to be ran back in the day. The only problem is getting the bowl system to get on board.

You don't need to get the bowl system on board. They literally have no say in it. The NCAA has the power to do it if they want to. But there is a long tradition of good ole boys making huge, huge amounts of money on the bowl system and those guys are tied in with college presidents.

But yeah, there is no reason other than big piles of cash for more people rather than a bigger pile of cash for fewer people keeping this plan from happening.

[villain612]

TCU and/or Baylor got hosed. (and I'm an Ohio State fan).

Can I see your math?

I'm a Buckeye fan admittedly but I'd say Baylor and Ohio State had about equal resumes. Ohio State's overall SOS was slightly better, and of course they had that championship game to boot. I think either team would have been worthy...but I'm not sure how Baylor got "hosed". Maybe by their own conference but not the committee.

[Kilgore_Trout]

An 8 team playoff is inevitable. As I've said, more teams equals more money, and count on the ESPN talking heads to shout from the rooftops about it until it happens. They have the rights for all the games for the next decade plus, after all...

I like the basic proposal laid out by Jax, but I don't really see a need for designated playoff spots for an AAC and Mountain West team. IMO, it would make more sense to have each of the power 5 conference champions with an automatic bid, followed by three at-large teams. Maybe if the NCAA so desires, they can have one of those three at-large spots designated for the "best" champion from a non-power conference or independent.

The only problem I have with extending the playoffs to 8 teams is one Urban Meyer brought up when interviewed earlier today. He made the point that he was concerned about the families of his players being able to clear their schedules/afford potentially two trips in a short amount of time. I think that applies to the fans, as well. That alone shouldn't be enough to stop an expansion of the playoffs, but it is a legitimate concern. How will attendance be affected, if at all? Should we care?

[dougdirt]

An 8 team playoff is inevitable. As I've said, more teams equals more money, and count on the ESPN talking heads to shout from the rooftops about it until it happens. They have the rights for all the games for the next decade plus, after all...

I like the basic proposal laid out by Jax, but I don't really see a need for designated playoff spots for an AAC and Mountain West team. IMO, it would make more sense to have each of the power 5 conference champions with an automatic bid, followed by three at-large teams. Maybe if the NCAA so desires, they can have one of those three at-large spots designated for the "best" champion from a non-power conference or independent.

The only problem I have with extending the playoffs to 8 teams is one Urban Meyer brought up when interviewed earlier today. He made the point that he was concerned about the families of his players being able to clear their schedules/afford potentially two trips in a short amount of time. I think that applies to the fans, as well. That alone shouldn't be enough to stop an expansion of the playoffs, but it is a legitimate concern. How will attendance be affected, if at all? Should we care?

How about the NCAA takes some of their money and makes it available to the schools to provide travel for two members of each players family? Nah. No way they would ever do that.

[BluegrassRedleg]

They'll never be able to explain away TCU going from 3 to 6 in a weekend where the Horned Frogs won 55-3.

That said, as a big fan of CFB, I'd MUCH rather see Bama and Ohio State play.

Just think it's BS the way it unfolded.

[GAC]

I've read over the last 7-8 pages, and I have to admit it's been a very interesting discussion/debate, with valid points (arguments) brought on all sides. What does that tell me?.... no matter what they do (initiate), there is no perfect system. I doesn't matter if it's a four, six, or eight team play-off.... there will always be controversy.

I'm ecstatic that OSU got in. But I have to admit that I'm somewhat surprised (caught off guard) that it was via TCU getting dropped.

I tend to agree with earlier arguments ... how can the committee put TCU at #3 - and even though they played a bad opponent in their final game - they still did what they had to do... they blew them out.

I simply think it came down to two variables already mentioned.....

1) the magnitude of OSU's win (destruction) of Wisconsin in the B10 championship game, and

2) the B12 (really the B10), doesn't have a conference championship game. That, IMO, really hurt them. So maybe, in a subliminal kind of way, the committee is sending this conference a message?

[BluegrassRedleg]

They were kind of victims of bad luck, too, this being the first year of the CFP. In almost every other year, you have a clear-cut elite team and a 2A and 2B. There's hardly ever a fourth team that people look at and say "Yeah, that team could win it." This year, there's maybe six that you could argue, on a given day, could win these playoff games.

It's not going to be that way in the future IMO. They'll inevitably go to 8, but we'll probably go back to seeing those 1-2A-2B teams at the top and the other 5 having no shot.

[dabvu2498]

Personally, I think the committee was scared to death of a final (particularly in their first year) that no one would care about or watch. Namely, in this case, TCU vs. FSU.

It is also why we will probably never see an 8 team playoff. Too many potential match ups that no one would care about. This years Cotton Bowl matchup, for instance. I think it's a nice matchup, but your casual fan won't give a care. Imagine ratings for a potential Michigan St. - Mississippi St. game. Yuck.

[RiverRat13]

Here's how the teams in question were ranked by a few of the computers:

Sagarin:
Bama (1)
TCU (2)
Oregon (3)
Ohio State (5)
Baylor (7)
Florida State (15)

Fremeau Efficiency Index:
Oregon (1)
Bama (2)
Florida State (4)
Ohio State (5)
TCU (8)
Baylor (9)

S&P+ Ratings:
Bama (1)
Ohio State (2)
Oregon (3)
Baylor (8)
TCU (10)
Florida State (15)

[kaldaniels]

They'll never be able to explain away TCU going from 3 to 6 in a weekend where the Horned Frogs won 55-3.

That said, as a big fan of CFB, I'd MUCH rather see Bama and Ohio State play.

Just think it's BS the way it unfolded.

Well, look at it like this.

FSU, TCU, BU, and OSU were all "very close" as far as the rankings were last week.

I think it's safe to say TCU had the least impressive game this past weekend, 55-3 over a weak team. So if the other teams that were closely ranked to them had more impressive wins, that will allow them to be jumped. No holding serve if you destroy a weak team while others add to their resume more impressively.

[Sea Ray]

I do not claim to know for sure who is the better team among OSU, TCU and Baylor, so I wouldn't have been outraged by whoever made the four. As I stated in my earlier post, Alabama, Oregon, FSU and OSU were the four I would pick, so I have no complaints that the committee made the same choice.
I really am amused that the commissioner of the Big 12 decided to ignore head-to-head meetings and declared TCU and Baylor co-champions. Terrific. They are now both outside looking in.

You seriously think that the Commissioner could by proclamation get one of his teams in the playoff? That's one I haven't heard yet...

[Sea Ray]

I'd like to see the Big 12 add Boise State.

West Va would hate that. Folks like Bob Huggins are already moaning about travel. Boise also doesn't add much in the way of a TV or recruiting market

[Kilgore_Trout]

How about the NCAA takes some of their money and makes it available to the schools to provide travel for two members of each players family? Nah. No way they would ever do that.

Of course they wouldn't do that, they'd be violating their own rules by providing impermissible benefits! Their families should just be proud that their children are getting a quality education.... :rolleyes:

[Todd Gack]

How about the NCAA takes some of their money and makes it available to the schools to provide travel for two members of each players family? Nah. No way they would ever do that.

But the more important question is: What if a family volunteered to pay their own way?

[bucksfan2]

I would love to see an 8 team playoff with the higher ranked club hosting the 1st game. I would love to see a southern school travel north to play outdoors in December. This year there would be one matchup, Miss St. traveling to Oregon.

[Kilgore_Trout]

I would love to see an 8 team playoff with the higher ranked club hosting the 1st game. I would love to see a southern school travel north to play outdoors in December. This year there would be one matchup, Miss St. traveling to Oregon.

In this day and age, there is simply no point in having a team play out in the elements in December or January. I've heard this argument from many of my fellow B1G fans, and frankly, I am not on board with it. It makes no practical sense. A neutral field with environmentally controlled conditions provides about the fairest matchup one could ever ask for.

[Roy Tucker]

I'd like to see the first round of the 8 team playoffs played in the home stadium of the higher seeded team. That would solve a.) getting the stadium filled and b.) make being a high seed worth something. After that, they can use bowls.

It's the Midwest guy in me, but I love seeing football in ugly weather.

[villain612]

They'll never be able to explain away TCU going from 3 to 6 in a weekend where the Horned Frogs won 55-3.

That said, as a big fan of CFB, I'd MUCH rather see Bama and Ohio State play.

Just think it's BS the way it unfolded.

The worst mistake the committee ever made was putting out weekly rankings when they start fresh each week.

It's confusing because the public is conditioned for rankings to be like the AP or the Coaches poll where teams usually retain their ranking as long as they don't screw it up.

I think the committee is a good thing and I like that they don't do the traditional thinking of the AP poll. They just need to release one final ranking at the end of the season though.

[cumberlandreds]

I'd like to see the first round of the 8 team playoffs played in the home stadium of the higher seeded team. That would solve a.) getting the stadium filled and b.) make being a high seed worth something. After that, they can use bowls.

It's the Midwest guy in me, but I love seeing football in ugly weather.

I agree with home teams in the first round. Makes too much sense though for the NCAA to do.

[Assembly Hall]

In this day and age, there is simply no point in having a team play out in the elements in December or January. I've heard this argument from many of my fellow B1G fans, and frankly, I am not on board with it. It makes no practical sense. A neutral field with environmentally controlled conditions provides about the fairest matchup one could ever ask for.

I think we have talked about this before somewhere. I don't think many of the outdoor stadiums at the college level are set up for snow or freezing weather. However there are venues such as Indy, Detroit, and Minneapolis that could work. But to be honest, I like the idea of vacationing down south when the thermometer is showing zero!!!!!!!!!

[dougdirt]

In this day and age, there is simply no point in having a team play out in the elements in December or January. I've heard this argument from many of my fellow B1G fans, and frankly, I am not on board with it. It makes no practical sense. A neutral field with environmentally controlled conditions provides about the fairest matchup one could ever ask for.

Agreed. I don't want to see a game decided because it decided to snow 5 inches during the game and it completely eliminates the passing game.

[Assembly Hall]

The worst mistake the committee ever made was putting out weekly rankings when they start fresh each week.

It's confusing because the public is conditioned for rankings to be like the AP or the Coaches poll where teams usually retain their ranking as long as they don't screw it up.

I think the committee is a good thing and I like that they don't do the traditional thinking of the AP poll. They just need to release one final ranking at the end of the season though.

I completely agree with you. In my mind a committee is a committee, final rankings is all we need.

[RichRed]

The only problem I have with extending the playoffs to 8 teams is one Urban Meyer brought up when interviewed earlier today. He made the point that he was concerned about the families of his players being able to clear their schedules/afford potentially two trips in a short amount of time. I think that applies to the fans, as well. That alone shouldn't be enough to stop an expansion of the playoffs, but it is a legitimate concern. How will attendance be affected, if at all? Should we care?

How have Divisions I-AA (FCS), II, and III managed for decades with a 16 (or more)-team playoff? Shouldn't even be a blip on the radar as far as playoff expansion goes.

[Assembly Hall]

How have Divisions I-AA (FCS), II, and III managed for decades with a 16 (or more)-team playoff? Shouldn't even be a blip on the radar as far as playoff expansion goes.

Amazing how it works at that level, but cant at the upper tier.

[dougdirt]

Amazing how it works at that level, but cant at the upper tier.

It's not that it can't, it's that too many people will not have big fat checks written to them and those people have the power, so they simply aren't going to allow it.

[RedsBaron]

How have Divisions I-AA (FCS), II, and III managed for decades with a 16 (or more)-team playoff? Shouldn't even be a blip on the radar as far as playoff expansion goes.

Marshall University played at the I-AA/FCS level from the mid-80's through 1996, and I loved it.

[RichRed]

It's not that it can't, it's that too many people will not have big fat checks written to them and those people have the power, so they simply aren't going to allow it.

Which is why it's insulting to hear the excuses offered. My favorite is the one they used to trot out about how a playoff wouldn't work because the players would miss too many classes. Do they still say that with a straight face?

[Assembly Hall]

It's not that it can't, it's that too many people will not have big fat checks written to them and those people have the power, so they simply aren't going to allow it.

Wow Doug, I just made the connection. Thanks for enlightening me.

[RichRed]

Marshall University played at the I-AA/FCS level from the mid-80's through 1996, and I loved it.

As a James Madison alum/fan, I love the playoffs (when my team's in them). Although I do think the 24-team field they expanded to a couple years ago is a bit excessive.

[villain612]

Marshall University played at the I-AA/FCS level from the mid-80's through 1996, and I loved it.

I grew up in Huntington.

Loved watching Marshall dominate.

Until they played Tressell's Youngstown teams that is.

That 1996 team was really good though.

[BluegrassRedleg]

I grew up in Huntington.

Loved watching Marshall dominate.

Until they played Tressell's Youngstown teams that is.

That 1996 team was really good though.


EKU vs. Marshall was quite entertaining back in the day. The heyday of I-AA was great.

[BluegrassRedleg]

Well, look at it like this.

FSU, TCU, BU, and OSU were all "very close" as far as the rankings were last week.

I think it's safe to say TCU had the least impressive game this past weekend, 55-3 over a weak team. So if the other teams that were closely ranked to them had more impressive wins, that will allow them to be jumped. No holding serve if you destroy a weak team while others add to their resume more impressively.

That's a fair point, but if we're talking total resume and not just final week resume, they don't have a blemish all year. Lone loss is by 3 points on Baylor's field in sort of flukish fashion. Their resume was rock-solid. They didn't have a bad loss like Baylor or Ohio State did.

[kaldaniels]

That's a fair point, but if we're talking total resume and not just final week resume, they don't have a blemish all year. Lone loss is by 3 points on Baylor's field in sort of flukish fashion. Their resume was rock-solid. They didn't have a bad loss like Baylor or Ohio State did.

Sure. If you are simply saying you believe TCU has a better resume, I would disagree, but it is close enough that I can't really argue it.

I was just trying to explain away the events that caused TCU to drop from 3 to 6. It doesn't defy logic. However I do believe putting TCU over FSU last week was a mistake.

Gun to my head, I'd actually have FSU at 1. Unbeaten defending champs...ugly or not, they get my #1 vote till beaten. Which will probably be January 1.

[Roy Tucker]

Agreed. I don't want to see a game decided because it decided to snow 5 inches during the game and it completely eliminates the passing game.

That's exactly the idea. Playing in bad weather is how God meant football to be played.

[dougdirt]

That's exactly the idea. Playing in bad weather is how God meant football to be played.

I'm not sure about that one.

[Kingspoint]

Playing in good weather is for girls in skirts.

Men should be playing in December in Ohio conditions.

[GAC]

Playing in good weather is for girls in skirts.

Men should be playing in December in Ohio conditions.

Yeah... but as a fan, it's no contest as far as I'm concerned. Versus freezing my you-know-whats off, I still prefer watching the game in the warm comfort of my living room, in sweat pants and T-shirt, on my 48" HD TV where the concessions are much cheaper... and I don't have to wait in line to pee! :mooner:

[RedFanAlways1966]

That's exactly the idea. Playing in bad weather is how God meant football to be played.

Doesn't seem to bother the NFL. Of course the nicer weather areas are about one thing and only one thing. MONEY! Get people to travel to a nice location while bringing their money to spend on things other than the game. Hotel, entertainment, etc, etc. The locations of these games have nothing to do with giving the poor-poor players a nice weather game. Show me the money!

[Boston Red]

Doesn't seem to bother the NFL.

The NFL plays the Super Bowl indoors or in good weather locations. They obviously gave NYC the Super Bowl last year, but that is unlikely to be repeated.

[Assembly Hall]

The NFL plays the Super Bowl indoors or in good weather locations. They obviously gave NYC the Super Bowl last year, but that is unlikely to be repeated.


Amen!

[MWM]

The NFL plays the Super Bowl indoors or in good weather locations. They obviously gave NYC the Super Bowl last year, but that is unlikely to be repeated.

But all playoff games other than the Super Bowl are at the higher seed's home field and it provides a big advantage to the home team. I'd love to see the playoffs this way, but the championship game in a warm climate or indoors.

[villain612]

Playing in good weather is for girls in skirts.

Men should be playing in December in Ohio conditions.

Just for the record, I am okay with girls in skirts.

[Assembly Hall]

But all playoff games other than the Super Bowl are at the higher seed's home field and it provides a big advantage to the home team. I'd love to see the playoffs this way, but the championship game in a warm climate or indoors.

And on a neutral field. No reason why LSU should be playing in the Super Dome, USC playing in the Rose Bowl, or even FSU playing in Miami when a championship is on the line.

[bucksfan2]

And on a neutral field. No reason why LSU should be playing in the Super Dome, USC playing in the Rose Bowl, or even FSU playing in Miami when a championship is on the line.

That is kinda the crux of the matter. There was a time when Tampa Bay was dominant yet couldn't win a game below freezing. One night game in Alabama where he temperatures dipped into the low 50's they had heaters on the sidelines because it was too cold. Northern teams have to adjust their game a little bit to the colder weather, footing isn't as much of an issue on field turf now, but on all grass fields that becomes an issue. Cold weather tends to make the ball a little more difficult to catch. I don't want to see two teams play in perfect conditions to determine the champion because that isn't how the season is played. I would venture to say that playing in humid southern climates are equally difficult to adapt to for northern teams.

[Boston Red]

And on a neutral field. No reason why LSU should be playing in the Super Dome, USC playing in the Rose Bowl, or even FSU playing in Miami when a championship is on the line.

They've always been on a neutral field, but it's not necessarily so. The Jets or Giants could have been in the Super Bowl last year. The Cardinals could be in the Super Bowl this year. That's no different than having the college football national championship scheduled for Dallas this year if TCU would have made their way into the championship.

[Assembly Hall]

That is kinda the crux of the matter. There was a time when Tampa Bay was dominant yet couldn't win a game below freezing. One night game in Alabama where he temperatures dipped into the low 50's they had heaters on the sidelines because it was too cold. Northern teams have to adjust their game a little bit to the colder weather, footing isn't as much of an issue on field turf now, but on all grass fields that becomes an issue. Cold weather tends to make the ball a little more difficult to catch. I don't want to see two teams play in perfect conditions to determine the champion because that isn't how the season is played. I would venture to say that playing in humid southern climates are equally difficult to adapt to for northern teams.


Interesting thoughts. The NFL is quite a bit different than the college ranks. An NFL squad has guys on their roster from all over the place. Not saying that college teams don't, but they seem to be more regionalized with their roster. However, as a Colts fan, I saw what a difference it made to them being outside in the cold. I also would see teams like Buffalo travel to Miami at the end of December and struggle with the humidity and warm temp.

Regardless of the temperature....a neutral field is a neutral field. Why isn't 'Bama playing the Bucks in the Rose Bowl. I could go on and on about this, but I will shut up for now.

[Sea Ray]

Just for the record, I am okay with girls in skirts.

Ditto but I must say that I don't watch the cheerleading competitions on ESPN

[villain612]

College football isn't the NFL. It never will be and it shouldn't try to be either.

[RedFanAlways1966]

College football isn't the NFL. It never will be and it shouldn't try to be either.

True. Because NFL players get paid and college players don't. ;)

[villain612]

True. Because NFL players get paid and college players don't. ;)

Coming from someone who's paying student loans for the next 20 years, that statement is bunk.

[RedFanAlways1966]

Coming from someone who's paying student loans for the next 20 years, that statement is bunk.

It was also a joke. No harm intended!

[BluegrassRedleg]

Which is why it's insulting to hear the excuses offered. My favorite is the one they used to trot out about how a playoff wouldn't work because the players would miss too many classes. Do they still say that with a straight face?

UNC players can't risk missing their imaginary African Studies 201 course.

[BluegrassRedleg]

That's exactly the idea. Playing in bad weather is how God meant football to be played.

God wouldn't have put 75% of the good players in Florida, Texas and SoCal if that was the case. ;)

[Assembly Hall]

God wouldn't have put 75% of the good players in Florida, Texas and SoCal if that was the case. ;)

For some reason though God started the game in the Northeast! If I remember right the Ivy League schools were the first ones to start playing it. The state of Ohio refined it. Just sayin'

[Roy Tucker]

So, with a playoff system of 8, you play the opening round at lesser bowl games? Like Alabama playing Mich. St. at Qualcomm Stadium in San Diego? The travel for that round gets to be an issue.

[Assembly Hall]

So, with a playoff system of 8, you play the opening round at lesser bowl games? Like Alabama playing Mich. St. at Qualcomm Stadium in San Diego? The travel for that round gets to be an issue.

How so? Missing class time?

[KronoRed]

So, with a playoff system of 8, you play the opening round at lesser bowl games? Like Alabama playing Mich. St. at Qualcomm Stadium in San Diego? The travel for that round gets to be an issue.

Play them Home/Away.

[Chip R]

So, with a playoff system of 8, you play the opening round at lesser bowl games? Like Alabama playing Mich. St. at Qualcomm Stadium in San Diego? The travel for that round gets to be an issue.

I don't see how since they go hither and yon during the season all the time. Penn State played in Ireland this year. Notre Dame goes out to the west coast every year.

[Assembly Hall]

I don't see how since they go hither and yon during the season all the time. Penn State played in Ireland this year. Notre Dame goes out to the west coast every year.


I do believe Notre Dame went west twice this year. The schools have the money.

[Boston Red]

West Virginia travels that far every week.

[Assembly Hall]

West Virginia travels that far every week.


Yepper!!!!!!!!!!

[gonelong]

Play them Home/Away.

Exacly. There is no base of fans at a bowl site like you do at someones home stadium and you begin to severely limit the number of folks that can attend (including family members of the players) when there is travel to 3 different sites involved.

Plus, how sweet would it be to watch these historical programs matching up in one of their home stadiums?

GL

[Assembly Hall]

Exacly. There is no base of fans at a bowl site like you do at someones home stadium and you begin to severely limit the number of folks that can attend (including family members of the players) when there is travel to 3 different sites involved.

Plus, how sweet would it be to watch these historical programs matching up in one of their home stadiums?

GL

Once again I don't know how many northern school's fields are set up for in-climate weather. But there are indoors facilities that would do quite well depending on what teams/match-ups are there.