2014 Bengals Discussion, Part 2

[dabvu2498]

Carry on...

[WMR]

Please don't get punked by Johnny Football, Bengals...

[Assembly Hall]

Please don't get punked by Johnny Football, Bengals...


LMAO!!!!!!!!!!

[Joseph]

Feels like one of those Reds games in which we get a rookie starter that just lights us up.

[paintmered]

Feels like one of those Reds games in which we get a rookie starter that just lights us up.

Yep, I'm terrified he's going to go off for 485 and 5 TDs. Against anyone else, he'd suffer a career-ending injury midway through the 2nd quarter.

I may also be a pessimist when it comes to the Bengals.

[Stray]

Hue is calling a good game so far. Get nervous whenever we have a Dalton read or run tho. We really can't afford for him to get hurt.

[Ohayou]

Beast mode.

[Stray]

Jeremy Hill wow.

Our offensive line came to play today.

[Yachtzee]

Beast mode.

Or if you're the Browns, Yeast Mode.

[Tom Servo]

I'm starting to see why Pettine has stuck with Hoyer until this point.

[Stray]

We just gotta take care of the football and we will cruise. Looking at you, Andy Dalton.

[Ohayou]

We just gotta take care of the football and we will cruise. Looking at you, Andy Dalton.

Now look what you did.

[Stray]

Could just feel it coming lol

[Stray]

Will Clarke sighting. Good play.

[Stray]

Dalton bad throw took away a touchdown.
Defense doing everything they can to give the Browns a touchdown.

The only way they come back is if we help them.

[Stray]

Maybe that's why he's been behind Brian Hoyer all year. He's lobbing curveballs all over the field.

[RiverRat13]

Dalton bad throw took away a touchdown.
Defense doing everything they can to give the Browns a touchdown.

The only way they come back is if we help them.

He's had three bad throws where the Bengals would have had easy touchdowns. Fortunately, Manziel is just horrid. Hopefully the Browns don't switch QBs at half.

[Stray]

Not gonna go down as a huge play, but Carlos Dunlap running down that screen is one of the best plays I've seen out of our DL all year.

[HeatherC1212]

Nice win by the boys today!! :jump:

[Redsfaithful]

Unless I'm mistaken, two wild cards will have to have 10 wins to eliminate the Bengals if the Bengals finish 0-2, which feels unlikely to me looking at upcoming schedules. So I think they're fairly close to a lock at already being in via wild card.

[traderumor]

Today only reinforced my opinion that the Browns of this era are the 90s - preMarvin Bengals. That is why I do not go crazy on a weekly basis on the questionable in game coaching decisions, because the Bengals are a solid organization now. Better the devil that we know, and while the playoff failure stings, the org. has demonstrated overall competence.

But the Browns, think Akili Smith, the fans clamor and clamor for something, management succumbs to the pressure, and it only demonstrates how far away the organization still is from competence, from the drafting of the guy because of his college career, to playing him this week because "what the heck, we'll be worse, but what the heck."

[Stray]

Unless I'm mistaken, two wild cards will have to have 10 wins to eliminate the Bengals if the Bengals finish 0-2, which feels unlikely to me looking at upcoming schedules. So I think they're fairly close to a lock at already being in via wild card.

Yea there's a good chance we at least get a wildcard. Especially since Pittsburgh and KC are gonna play and SD plays the 9ers and Chiefs. Wouldn't be surprised if the AFCN sends 3 teams.

[Roy Tucker]

Still don't think the Bengals will go very far with Dalton. He is just too prone to pressure errors. Just a smidge above a journeyman QB.

Nice game by both O and D lines today.

[top6]

Unless I'm mistaken, two wild cards will have to have 10 wins to eliminate the Bengals if the Bengals finish 0-2, which feels unlikely to me looking at upcoming schedules. So I think they're fairly close to a lock at already being in via wild card.

I don't know. Assuming San Diego loses today, they will be 8-6, as is Buffalo and Kansas City. Baltimore and Pittsburgh are 9-5.

Baltimore plays Houston and Cleveland and should be a huge favorite in both games to finish 11-5. If Pittsburgh beats Kansas City, then if they beat us they are also 11-5, leaving only one wild card spot.

Buffalo plays Oakland and then New England, but New England will probably have the 1 seed locked up by then, so I think the Bills will be favored in both games and in this scenario would be a good bet to grab the second spot.

Kansas City plays Pittsburgh and San Diego, who also plays San Francisco. I could see San Diego coming out of that 10-6.

Anyway, it is all kind of a mess but I think that--assuming the Bengals lose their next 2 games--it is 50/50 or so as to whether they would be in.

[forfreelin04]

Still don't think the Bengals will go very far with Dalton. He is just too prone to pressure errors. Just a smidge above a journeyman QB.

Nice game by both O and D lines today.

I hate to be pessimistic too, but Dalton looked horrible on all of his throws over 10 yards today. He'll have to at least hit on a few of those these next two weeks for them to pull out a victory. These next two games have playoff implications so I expect another Dalton implosion.

The defense got a respite to play Manziel today, it won't be easy against a Manning and Big Ben.

[traderumor]

Who knows what they will do. Could Dalton's issues today been injury related? Regardless, his erratic performances are needing replaced. Probably be living with him for awhile, though. As for what the Bengals need to do, who knows which team shows up, whether it be to make the playoffs or in the playoffs. They have been so unpredictable from week to week.

[top6]

I don't know. Assuming San Diego loses today, they will be 8-6, as is Buffalo and Kansas City. Baltimore and Pittsburgh are 9-5.

Baltimore plays Houston and Cleveland and should be a huge favorite in both games to finish 11-5. If Pittsburgh beats Kansas City, then if they beat us they are also 11-5, leaving only one wild card spot.

Buffalo plays Oakland and then New England, but New England will probably have the 1 seed locked up by then, so I think the Bills will be favored in both games and in this scenario would be a good bet to grab the second spot.

Kansas City plays Pittsburgh and San Diego, who also plays San Francisco. I could see San Diego coming out of that 10-6.

Anyway, it is all kind of a mess but I think that--assuming the Bengals lose their next 2 games--it is 50/50 or so as to whether they would be in.

I'm going to need to amend something here. The only way New England can clinch home field advantage before Week 17 would be if the Bengals beat the Broncos in Week 16 (which would render this whole exercise moot). So Buffalo will have to play at New England to end the season in a meaningful game--where they will certainly not be favored.

The point is it is more likely than I thought that the Bengals would make the playoffs even if they lose both games. Carry on with your lives.

[RedsBaron]

I would not at all surprised if Dalton has a good opening game in the playoffs (gotta happen some year) and the Bengals win, but I would be very surprised if Dalton had a run of three good playoff games, which would probably be necessary for the Bengals to win a Super Bowl. I hope I am wrong.

[Redhook]

I'm going to need to amend something here. The only way New England can clinch home field advantage before Week 17 would be if the Bengals beat the Broncos in Week 16 (which would render this whole exercise moot). So Buffalo will have to play at New England to end the season in a meaningful game--where they will certainly not be favored.

The point is it is more likely than I thought that the Bengals would make the playoffs even if they lose both games. Carry on with your lives.

That's good news. Thanks for increasing my optimism towards the Bengals making the playoffs if they lose both games.

Unless Hill runs for 150+, I don't see how they beat the Broncos. I expect a blowout since its prime time. If they don't embarrass themselves it would be an improvement.

The last game against the Steelers should be close. They won there a couple of years ago. For some reason, the Bengals play better on the road this season. And the game is at 1:00 which, sadly/importantly, is a huge factor for this team. I could see them winning, barely.

As for today's game, thank God Hue finally started Hill. He's a beast. Gio was good too, but Hill is the main man for sure. Dalton, on the other hand, was awful. Fortunately, they didn't need him today. His longer passes resembled Nuke trying to throw a strike in Bull Durham. If and when they make the playoffs again, he will be the main reason why they don't advance. He's getting worse in my opinion.

[top6]

The last game against the Steelers should be close. They won there a couple of years ago. For some reason, the Bengals play better on the road this season. And the game is at 1:00 which, sadly/importantly, is a huge factor for this team. I could see them winning, barely.



It is at 1:00 now; however, one game will be flexed to Sunday night, and it could be any game. If the Bengals and Steelers both need a win to make the playoffs (which could easily be true depending on how next week shakes out), it would be a strong candidate.

[dabvu2498]

Hadn't heard about Nugent or Jackson and their family situations. Even better circumstances to come out and get a big win.

http://www.cincyjungle.com/2014-bengals-browns-week-15/2014/12/14/7391445/bengals-give-game-balls-to-mike-nugent-and-hue-jackson


Bengals placekicker Mike Nugent and offensive coordinator Hue Jackson each lost their fathers this week. Head coach Marvin Lewis issued the game ball to both.

[Redsfaithful]

The Browns have a lot of issues, but they do have a nice secondary. Not to make excuses for Dalton, just saying.

I honestly don't think he has much to work with right now. If AJ Green isn't playing well (and he wasn't today) then Dalton doesn't have much else. Sanu has disappeared.

[RiverRat13]

The Browns have a lot of issues, but they do have a nice secondary. Not to make excuses for Dalton, just saying.

I honestly don't think he has much to work with right now. If AJ Green isn't playing well (and he wasn't today) then Dalton doesn't have much else. Sanu has disappeared.

I have to disagree. Dalton missed three throws that would have been touchdowns, one to A.J. when he threw it outside when A.J. had Haden beat to the inside, one to Sanu in the back of the endzone and the interception. Now it is unrealistic to expect him to hit all three, but he's got to complete at least one of those throws.

[Kingspoint]

Unless Hill runs for 150+, I don't see how they beat the Broncos.

What's to stop Hill from getting 150+ against the Broncos?

I think he'll get at least 125, so another 25+ isn't much more.

[RedEye]

The Browns have a lot of issues, but they do have a nice secondary. Not to make excuses for Dalton, just saying.


Normally I would agree, but both Haden and Gilbert went out with injuries and Dalton was making Désir and Skrine look like Pro-Bowlers. This act is getting old real fast. It's getting to the point where I just want Sanu as QB handing off every play to Hill and/or Bernard and then launching a bomb to Green once in awhile. I'm not convinced the offense would be much worse.

[RedEye]

I have to disagree. Dalton missed three throws that would have been touchdowns, one to A.J. when he threw it outside when A.J. had Haden beat to the inside, one to Sanu in the back of the endzone and the interception. Now it is unrealistic to expect him to hit all three, but he's got to complete at least one of those throws.

This. On the interception, didn't he underthrow a wide-open Hewitt? I have to wonder sometimes whether this year's inconsistency has something to do with Andy's mechanics. I know he has been inconsistent in the past, but I don't think I've ever seen him missing by this much. He went to the QB doctor in the off-season, and I wonder whether that both help and hurt his consistency. Just wildly inaccurate in both Browns games, really. The only difference in this one was that our two lines were absolutely dominant so he didn't have to do very much.

[Benihana]

It is at 1:00 now; however, one game will be flexed to Sunday night, and it could be any game. If the Bengals and Steelers both need a win to make the playoffs (which could easily be true depending on how next week shakes out), it would be a strong candidate.

Can 1:00 games be flexed? I thought only the 4p games were eligible?

Hopefully for the Vengals sake they stay out of primetime

[Stray]

I'm not gonna give the passing game a pass for yesterday's performance, but it was obvious from the start of the game that the entire game plan was to run the ball over them for the entire game. It didn't look like Dalton or any of the receivers ever got into any kinda rhythm. If we want to run the ball like that it makes it more important to hit the big throws when you get em, so rhythm or not, they're gonna have to find a way to improve it. I like the focus on the running game though. With all the receiving weapons we've lost, it makes sense for us to do what we can be best at right now. I think Hue could help Dalton and our receivers out when our gameplan is that run heavy. A few screens and quick throws early on can keep them into it.

With a potential playoff game looming, I'm surprisingly a lot less worried about Dalton than I am our defense. They played well yesterday but who knows how much of that was actually on Cleveland being awful with Manziel. AFC playoff picture has New England, Denver, Indy, and Pittsburgh. Dalton can have an all world kinda day and it won't matter much if our D gives up 500 yards again.

I also hope they flex the Pittsburgh game in week 17. We may suck in primetime games, but I want us to play as many as possible so we can eventually get over that hump. A win in Pittsburgh on the final Sunday night of the regular season could send this team on a run.

[WrongVerb]

This. On the interception, didn't he underthrow a wide-open Hewitt? I have to wonder sometimes whether this year's inconsistency has something to do with Andy's mechanics. I know he has been inconsistent in the past, but I don't think I've ever seen him missing by this much. He went to the QB doctor in the off-season, and I wonder whether that both help and hurt his consistency. Just wildly inaccurate in both Browns games, really. The only difference in this one was that our two lines were absolutely dominant so he didn't have to do very much.

It's not a new thing with Dalton's mechanics. If you watch, when he's feeling pressure (whether it be from a pass rush, or maybe just playing under the spotlight) he reverts to some very old habits. The worst habit of all is that he stops stepping into his throws. When he steps into his throws, he's a VERY accurate and strong passer. But when he's not doing that, for whatever reason, then he does, as someone suggested, resemble Nuke Laloosh in Bull Durham trying to throw a strike. It just ain't happening.

[Redhook]

What's to stop Hill from getting 150+ against the Broncos?

I think he'll get at least 125, so another 25+ isn't much more.

If the Bengals get off to their usual slow prime time start and get down double digits early, he'll struggle to run for a lot. For whatever reason, they are prone to abort the run when they get down. They lack patience.

[bucksfan2]

Normally I would agree, but both Haden and Gilbert went out with injuries and Dalton was making Désir and Skrine look like Pro-Bowlers. This act is getting old real fast. It's getting to the point where I just want Sanu as QB handing off every play to Hill and/or Bernard and then launching a bomb to Green once in awhile. I'm not convinced the offense would be much worse.

He did? He missed the throw to the TE that went for an INT. It looked like a TD if he got it over the LB's head, but he did not.

The Bengals game plan was to run the ball. The game actually reminded me of a few OSU games where Tressel was playing field position because he knew the opposing QB couldn't lead a sustained drive. IMO Andy's biggest throw was in the 1st quarter on 4th and 4 after that the Bengals pretty much manhandled the Browns.

When the Browns failed to score coming out of half it became a race to kill the clock. Play field position, don't make any bad decisions, and bled the clock. I don't have one problem with the way Andy played. You run the ball like that and you will win most games you play in regardless if the QB makes the opposing corners look like "Pro-Bowlers."

[Assembly Hall]

I am not a Bengals fan nor am a Browns fan. But win or lose, Dalton looked horrid to me. I realize the Browns aint an offensive juggernaut. But Andy needs to hit those plays. That is the difference between a good/great QB and one that ends up being a journey man.

[MWM]

Peyton Manning looks like the power pitcher who needs arm surgery and is tossing up 88 MPH fastballs. I watched the game yesterday and he was throwing ducks the whole game like something was wrong with his arm. From the little I watched last week, it was about the same. I don't think Manning is healthy at all, which gives the Bengals a chance next Monday. A healthy Manning and I say they have no chance. But if he's the guy we've seen the last couple of weeks, the bengals could pull the upset.

[Kingspoint]

If the Bengals get off to their usual slow prime time start and get down double digits early, he'll struggle to run for a lot. For whatever reason, they are prone to abort the run when they get down. They lack patience.
Yes. Hue and Marvin could definitely panic and stop using Hill.

[bucksfan2]

Peyton Manning has been throwing ducks for a decade now. He throws them on time and accurate. I am still amazed watching that man run that he still can get it done.

[Stray]

FWIW, Dalton has actually been pretty good this year on deep passes. Not Aaron Rodgers good, but still good enough. Regardless of who your QB is those aren't going to be high percentage passes... That miss to Hewitt was terrible tho. That was the really bad one yesterday.

His intermediate throws are hit or miss, but so are the intermediate routes we run. That's usually Sanu/Gresham territory. And he's terrible at throwing fades in/near the red zone, but I also hate calling fades near the red zone no matter who you are.

Take away the Cleveland games and I think he's had a pretty good year all things considered. The other duds were so much of a team problem I don't think it'd be fair to single him out on them. That's why I don't think we can make playoff runs, because every now and then the entire team shows up not ready to play. Hope I'm wrong tho.

Everyone can't have a Tom Brady. I'll take my chances with Dalton since he's shown the ability to make the big drive when we need it.

[Kingspoint]

FWIW, Dalton has actually been pretty good this year on deep passes. Not Aaron Rodgers good, but still good enough. Regardless of who your QB is those aren't going to be high percentage passes... That miss to Hewitt was terrible tho. That was the really bad one yesterday.

His intermediate throws are hit or miss, but so are the intermediate routes we run. That's usually Sanu/Gresham territory. And he's terrible at throwing fades in/near the red zone, but I also hate calling fades near the red zone no matter who you are.

Take away the Cleveland games and I think he's had a pretty good year all things considered. The other duds were so much of a team problem I don't think it'd be fair to single him out on them. That's why I don't think we can make playoff runs, because every now and then the entire team shows up not ready to play. Hope I'm wrong tho.

Everyone can't have a Tom Brady. I'll take my chances with Dalton since he's shown the ability to make the big drive when we need it.

On Gresham's receptions this year, the average spot that he's been at when Dalton throws him the ball is 3.1 yards past the LOS. That's a dumpoff, not a pass route. I simply don't understand why Hue won't send his TE out on pass routes when he has a Quarterback that needs pass routes in the middle of the field to have his best success at throwing the ball.

[top6]

Can 1:00 games be flexed? I thought only the 4p games were eligible?

Hopefully for the Vengals sake they stay out of primetime

There is a special rule for the last week of the season; any game can be flexed, and the league can wait until all week 16 games are finished so that they can pick a game that will definitely have playoff implications.

[Stray]

There as a quick route Bernard ran out of the backfield yesterday. Think it was an option route or something. It got us a first down and I thought how in the world could a linebacker ever defend that play...

Now that you mention it, we really don't use the middle of the field much at all and I agree Dalton should be at his best there. Would like to see more WR screens too...Sanu is a handful for DBs to tackle.

[Stray]

Would also like to add that Ryan Hewitt is becoming one of my favorite players on the team. That guy can really block.

[MWM]

Peyton Manning has been throwing ducks for a decade now. He throws them on time and accurate. I am still amazed watching that man run that he still can get it done.

Yes, he hasn't always thrown the tightest ball. But the last 2 weeks they've been ducks with no velocity that seems to hang in the air. There's no zip at all. I, too, am amazed at how he still finds a way to get it where it needs to go much of the time. But there's been something different the last couple of weeks from my viewing. Maybe it was temporary, but he hasn't put up much in the way of yards for 3 straight weeks. I think something is off with his health.

[redsfan30]

Peyton has not looked right since the 1st half of the Kansas City game a couple of weeks ago. The company line seems to be they have now adopted a run-heavy philosophy but I'm wondering if CJ Anderson's success is masking a real issue for them.

[Assembly Hall]

Well when Andy Dalton's name is held up there with Peyton Manning's, I guess I wont ever win the lottery.

[Kingspoint]

There as a quick route Bernard ran out of the backfield yesterday. Think it was an option route or something. It got us a first down and I thought how in the world could a linebacker ever defend that play...

Now that you mention it, we really don't use the middle of the field much at all and I agree Dalton should be at his best there. Would like to see more WR screens too...Sanu is a handful for DBs to tackle.

Agree. It is the route we've been wanting done all season long. Hue said that it was the first time this year he's used it (the option route), and they did it to spread out the 8-in-the-box that Cleveland did against the Bengals last game and was expected to do this game, too. They threw to Bernard three times on that first drive, but that option route went for 14 yards. It was a perfect blend to go with Hill's power running.

[Kingspoint]

Yes, he hasn't always thrown the tightest ball. But the last 2 weeks they've been ducks with no velocity that seems to hang in the air. There's no zip at all. I, too, am amazed at how he still finds a way to get it where it needs to go much of the time. But there's been something different the last couple of weeks from my viewing. Maybe it was temporary, but he hasn't put up much in the way of yards for 3 straight weeks. I think something is off with his health.

You've probably also noticed that the last two seasons, the routes that his Receivers run are designed so that he doesn't have to have a strong arm to get them the ball. They are almost always designed to set up yards-after-the-catch.

[Kingspoint]

The company line seems to be they have now adopted a run-heavy philosophy but I'm wondering if CJ Anderson's success is masking a real issue for them.
They almost had to change that philosophy as Anderson had his Bell rung in the first half by a brutal hit by a San Diego defender. If there would have been a 10-count, Anderson would have been KO'd. It was close, but there was no concussion, apparently, as Anderson finished the game and there's no reports today of a concussion.

I do think, that after getting hit like that this Sunday, that if one of the Bengals puts a solid hit to his head on Monday, Anderson could be out for the game.

[Kingspoint]

Peyton has not looked right since the 1st half of the Kansas City game a couple of weeks ago. The company line seems to be they have now adopted a run-heavy philosophy but I'm wondering if CJ Anderson's success is masking a real issue for them.

St. Louis gave the Broncos a wake-up call a few weeks ago, if Seattle didn't in the Super Bowl last season, that they better have a run-game and a Defense if they want to win it all.

[GAC]

The Browns have a lot of issues, but they do have a nice secondary. Not to make excuses for Dalton, just saying.

I honestly don't think he has much to work with right now. If AJ Green isn't playing well (and he wasn't today) then Dalton doesn't have much else. Sanu has disappeared.

First off - congratulations Bengal fans. You definitely took it to my Browns. I just don't understand, looking at our first meeting to this recent one, how two teams can do such a complete 180? Weren't both of the games each team's worst loss of the year? Both of these teams are quite perplexing to watch.

Last week the Brown's defense was a monster against one of the best offenses (QBs) in the NFL. Yeah, we ended up losing the game in the very end, but it wasn't because of our defense. So what was the difference between last week and this past Sunday? I'm trying to find some answers here as to why the Browns could look so bad - the worst they have looked all year (LOL)

#1 - Indy doesn't have a running game, which changes your defensive scheme. The Bengals do possess one. But in that first meeting we basically shut down your running game. Hill had 55 yds. Meanwhile, the Brown's RB West had almost 100 yds.

So the only thing I can come up with as my #2 point is an intangible called motivation.

There is no doubt in my mind, as I watched that game Sunday, that the ENTIRE Bengals team was fired up, wanting to exact REVENGE, for their performance AT HOME that Thursday night. And revenge can be a very motivating factor. And there was also the motivating factor of all the hype, by the media the week leading up to the game, built around this being Manziel's first start. Everything was about Manziel.

And the Bengal players took it to heart, played like there was no tomorrow, because they had something to prove, wanted to make a statement. And they definitely did.

No, Dalton did not have a good game. And that was the only thing that went right with Cleveland, which does have a solid secondary. And I think Lewis and the coaching staff respect the Brown's secondary, because they had a solid game plan based on the fact that one of the Brown's main issues this year has been their weak run defense. It's been our Achille's Heel, and the Bengals flaunted it to perfection.

But kudos to the Bengal's offensive line, which played outstanding, as well as a defense that was swarming on the ball. You could see the fire in their eyes.

I'm rooting for you guys the rest of the way because of our shared hatred of the Steelers and Ravens.

I just hope you can run the ball vs Denver. Last week you played a team that is 31st in run D. Denver is #2 in the NFL. Denver's pass D is in the middle of the pack. Dalton is going to have to be able to throw the ball with some success. He's going to have to put up more then 118 yds passing. The Bengals are going to have to have a more balanced attack vs the Broncos.

But if the Bengals play motivated like they did last Sunday .... I feel sorry for Denver! LOL

The only negative? ..... it's a prime time game! ;)

[Stray]

So looking at next week's schedule... And I'll add that I'm horrible at stuff like this so maybe I'm missing something, but...

KC@Pittsburgh
SD@49ers

Ultimate worst case scenario for the Bengals is for KC and SD to win, meaning one of them is guaranteed to get to 10 wins, barring they tie in their week 17 matchup. But if both lose, the Bengals clinch a playoff berth before they even play Denver.

And it looks a lot like the AFCN will be a 3 playoff team division this year. First weekend AFC teams would prolly be Indy, Cincy, Pitt and Baltimore.

If Baltimore that'd be asking us to beat them 3 times in one season, regardless of teams, that's hard to do.
Pittsburgh would be the back to back weeks vs the same team, in which case the winner in week 17 almost feels like a disadvantage.
Then going to Indy to play their offense on the turf would be tough, but they embarrassed us earlier this year, so that is prolly the matchup I'd want more than others.

Oh and I totally forgot Buffalo who would need to win out including at Foxboro, where the Patriots never lose. But you never know I guess. So I guess we couldn't clinch unless Buffalo loses this weekend too, which is unlikely against the Raiders.

Either way, it'd be nice to beat a vulnerable Denver team and take away any week 17 drama.

[Assembly Hall]

So looking at next week's schedule... And I'll add that I'm horrible at stuff like this so maybe I'm missing something, but...

KC@Pittsburgh
SD@49ers

Ultimate worst case scenario for the Bengals is for KC and SD to win, meaning one of them is guaranteed to get to 10 wins, barring they tie in their week 17 matchup. But if both lose, the Bengals clinch a playoff berth before they even play Denver.

And it looks a lot like the AFCN will be a 3 playoff team division this year. First weekend AFC teams would prolly be Indy, Cincy, Pitt and Baltimore.

If Baltimore that'd be asking us to beat them 3 times in one season, regardless of teams, that's hard to do.
Pittsburgh would be the back to back weeks vs the same team, in which case the winner in week 17 almost feels like a disadvantage.
Then going to Indy to play their offense on the turf would be tough, but they embarrassed us earlier this year, so that is prolly the matchup I'd want more than others.

Oh and I totally forgot Buffalo who would need to win out including at Foxboro, where the Patriots never lose. But you never know I guess. So I guess we couldn't clinch unless Buffalo loses this weekend too, which is unlikely against the Raiders.

Either way, it'd be nice to beat a vulnerable Denver team and take away any week 17 drama.

I aint good at it either but I think if all AFC North teams win this week, the 3 are all in contingent on what San Diego does.

[Kingspoint]

I just don't understand, looking at our first meeting to this recent one, how two teams can do such a complete 180?

We ran the ball with Hill and you started the guy on the left...

http://cdn2.modernman.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/bully-scut-farkus_510.jpg

[RedFanAlways1966]

Man... "the guy on the left" reference to Johnny Football cracked me up. Well played, Kingspoint, well played.

[Sea Ray]

First off - congratulations Bengal fans. You definitely took it to my Browns. I just don't understand, looking at our first meeting to this recent one, how two teams can do such a complete 180? Weren't both of the games each team's worst loss of the year? Both of these teams are quite perplexing to watch.

Last week the Brown's defense was a monster against one of the best offenses (QBs) in the NFL. Yeah, we ended up losing the game in the very end, but it wasn't because of our defense. So what was the difference between last week and this past Sunday? I'm trying to find some answers here as to why the Browns could look so bad - the worst they have looked all year (LOL)

#1 - Indy doesn't have a running game, which changes your defensive scheme. The Bengals do possess one. But in that first meeting we basically shut down your running game. Hill had 55 yds. Meanwhile, the Brown's RB West had almost 100 yds.

So the only thing I can come up with as my #2 point is an intangible called motivation.

There is no doubt in my mind, as I watched that game Sunday, that the ENTIRE Bengals team was fired up, wanting to exact REVENGE, for their performance AT HOME that Thursday night. And revenge can be a very motivating factor. And there was also the motivating factor of all the hype, by the media the week leading up to the game, built around this being Manziel's first start. Everything was about Manziel.

And the Bengal players took it to heart, played like there was no tomorrow, because they had something to prove, wanted to make a statement. And they definitely did.

No, Dalton did not have a good game. And that was the only thing that went right with Cleveland, which does have a solid secondary. And I think Lewis and the coaching staff respect the Brown's secondary, because they had a solid game plan based on the fact that one of the Brown's main issues this year has been their weak run defense. It's been our Achille's Heel, and the Bengals flaunted it to perfection.

But kudos to the Bengal's offensive line, which played outstanding, as well as a defense that was swarming on the ball. You could see the fire in their eyes.

I'm rooting for you guys the rest of the way because of our shared hatred of the Steelers and Ravens.

I just hope you can run the ball vs Denver. Last week you played a team that is 31st in run D. Denver is #2 in the NFL. Denver's pass D is in the middle of the pack. Dalton is going to have to be able to throw the ball with some success. He's going to have to put up more then 118 yds passing. The Bengals are going to have to have a more balanced attack vs the Broncos.

But if the Bengals play motivated like they did last Sunday .... I feel sorry for Denver! LOL

The only negative? ..... it's a prime time game! ;)

Les Levine last night was a little less charitable. He said something amazing considering how the Browns have suffered as a franchise...he said that the game on Sunday was the worst performance he's ever seen from the Browns and he went on to comment that he's seen a lot of Browns games going back to Tim Couch and beyond so he's not making that comment lightly.

[GAC]

We ran the ball with Hill and you started the guy on the left...

I'm certainly not going to blame that loss on Manziel. No matter what people's position/opinion of Manziel may be ... we're still talking about a rookie QB in his very first start. But the kid had no support whatsoever. Our "make-shift" offensive line, due to key injuries, has been a problem. My thought has been ... If it was giving problems to a vet like Hoyer, and it was, he had no time whatsoever - then why would it be any better for Manziel?

And it's not Manziel's fault that our run defense is 31st in he NFL either.

[GAC]

Les Levine last night was a little less charitable. He said something amazing considering how the Browns have suffered as a franchise...he said that the game on Sunday was the worst performance he's ever seen from the Browns and he went on to comment that he's seen a lot of Browns games going back to Tim Couch and beyond so he's not making that comment lightly.

I don't see where I was being "charitable" to the Browns (LOL).

Levine's statement is pretty subjective IMO. Anyone who has watched the Browns since they re-entered the league in '99 - and I've been watching them since 1965 - can find games that match/equal this past Sunday's performance.

I guess it all depends on what one expects going in....

- our offense has struggled for the last couple of months, and the problem is not simply QB-related either. They're playing behind a make-shift offensive line due to some key injuries. Our current center has never played the position before, and it shows. I had no huge problem with them starting Manziel; but I just didn't think it was going to be that much of a difference maker. They needed to start him though because Hoyer has made it known he isn't resigning with the Browns.

- as good as our defensive secondary is, our run defense has been horrendous all year (31st in the NFL).

So I knew our offense was going to still going to struggle behind this offensive line.

It was definitely our worst performance of the year. Taking it any farther then that is, again, subjective.

[Sea Ray]

I don't see where I was being "charitable" to the Browns (LOL).

Levine's statement is pretty subjective IMO. Anyone who has watched the Browns since they re-entered the league in '99 - and I've been watching them since 1965 - can find games that match/equal this past Sunday's performance.

I guess it all depends on what one expects going in....

- our offense has struggled for the last couple of months, and the problem is not simply QB-related either. They're playing behind a make-shift offensive line due to some key injuries. Our current center has never played the position before, and it shows. I had no huge problem with them starting Manziel; but I just didn't think it was going to be that much of a difference maker. They needed to start him though because Hoyer has made it known he isn't resigning with the Browns.

- as good as our defensive secondary is, our run defense has been horrendous all year (31st in the NFL).

So I knew our offense was going to still going to struggle behind this offensive line.

It was definitely our worst performance of the year. Taking it any farther then that is, again, subjective.

Anything better than "worst ever" is more charitable. It says more about Levine's comments than yours.

As for Manziel, I just don't think he looks like an NFL QB. He's not big enough, he doesn't have an impressive arm and I don't see anything impressive between the ears either.

Basically 6 ft QBs don't do well in the NFL. The exception right now is Russell Wilson and he's very unique. First of all he's very athletic, has a very strong arm, huge hands, studies like a demon and is very intelligent. Add to that, he has the NFL's #1 defense and an excellent O-line.

Manziel doesn't have the arm strength, height or intellect to be a decent NFL QB. Truth is his day on Sunday easily could have been worse. He should have had a couple more INTs.

I said on draft day that as a Bengal fan, I hoped the Browns would draft Manziel. Nothing has changed since then

Your comments about injuries etc are well founded. That was not the same Browns team that we saw in the first half of the year

[Stray]

I think it's way too early to make any judgments about Manziel. He didn't set his feet on any throw he made, and his arm isn't strong enough to run around like Brett Favre and sling it all over the field. In college he could, but those wiffle balls get intercepted at this level.

He's not going to be able to play like he did in college, but there's no reason he can't change. I still think his mobility is a huge weapon, he'll just have to gather himself to make accurate throws if he wants to run around to extend plays.

[Redsfaithful]

Drew Brees is 6'0.

But I think the difference between Manziel and other small QBs is that his frame is so small. Dalton is only 6'2 and he looks huge compared to Manziel, and it's all frame because two inches isn't that different.

[Kingspoint]

I'm certainly not going to blame that loss on Manziel. No matter what people's position/opinion of Manziel may be ... we're still talking about a rookie QB in his very first start. But the kid had no support whatsoever. Our "make-shift" offensive line, due to key injuries, has been a problem. My thought has been ... If it was giving problems to a vet like Hoyer, and it was, he had no time whatsoever - then why would it be any better for Manziel?

And it's not Manziel's fault that our run defense is 31st in he NFL either.

As the Brown's Head Coach commented, "It wouldn't have mattered who they started (they weren't going to beat the Bengals on that day, as the Bengals played inspired...except for Dalton, of course)".


This is the main reason Cleveland lost:

http://www.thenational.ae/storyimage/AB/20141217/ARTICLE/141219114/AR/0/&MaxW=640&imageVersion=default&AR-141219114.jpg


Sorry, about rubbing it in, GAC. Nothing personal.

http://www.nbcsports.com/files/nbcsports/jhill.jpg

[WrongVerb]

As the Brown's Head Coach commented, "It wouldn't have mattered who they started (there weren't going to beat the Bengals on that day, as the Bengals played inspired...except for Dalton, of course)".

That quote...ouch!

[Kingspoint]

That quote...ouch!

Kind of stretched that out a bit.

[GAC]

Drew Brees is 6'0.

But I think the difference between Manziel and other small QBs is that his frame is so small. Dalton is only 6'2 and he looks huge compared to Manziel, and it's all frame because two inches isn't that different.

Thank you buddy! :thumbup:

All this stuff about Manziel's height is laughable. Saying someone is too short is simply lazy analysis IMO. Here's a very good article that does an analysis, and debunks this.....

Tall Task: Does Height Matter For NFL Quarterbacks? .... http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/tall-task-does-height-matter-for-nfl-quarterbacks/22067/

There's a pretty solid list of very notable, and highly successful, QBs that were anywhere from 5"11" to 6"1"" on there.

I have no idea what caliber of QB Maniziel is going to become. And some of the "concerns" with Manziel may very well be legitimate. But for anyone to say he doesn't "look" like an NFL QB (whatever that is suppose to mean) or that he's not intelligent or even athletic, and to base that on one game, is, in itself, not too intelligent IMO.

I'm on record as not favoring the Browns drafting him. And it wasn't because I didn't think he'd succeed in the NFL; but because they had two 1st round picks and I think there were better options for them. I really wanted them to take versatile WR Watkins with their first pick. I then preferred Teddy Bridgewater over Manziel later in the round.

I'm simply going to reserve judgment on Johnny. We'll see.

But right now, if you put a majority of the successful QBs behind this offensive line, they'd be frustrated. No, they probably wouldn't have made some of the rookie mistakes Manziel did, but they'd struggle.

[GAC]

As the Brown's Head Coach commented, "It wouldn't have mattered who they started (they weren't going to beat the Bengals on that day, as the Bengals played inspired...except for Dalton, of course)".


This is the main reason Cleveland lost:

Already acknowledged that buddy. The Bengals played inspired, and took advantage of one of the NFL's worst run defenses and ran the ball down our throat. Why wouldn't they?


Sorry, about rubbing it in, GAC. Nothing personal.

http://www.nbcsports.com/files/nbcsports/jhill.jpg

I don't take it as that (LOL). We got our butts kicked.

But need I remind you that the Browns did the same to the Bengals a month earlier.Two enigmatic teams. ;)

And I'll be rootin' for the Bengals this weekend. My brother, the Bengal's fan, is the one that will be yelling at the TV! LOL

[RedFanAlways1966]

There's a pretty solid list of very notable, and highly successful, QBs that were anywhere from 5"11" to 6"1"" on there.

I cannot help but think, "What was the average height of the O-linemen and D-linemen during each of those QBs years in the NFL?"

[Sea Ray]

I think it's way too early to make any judgments about Manziel. He didn't set his feet on any throw he made, and his arm isn't strong enough to run around like Brett Favre and sling it all over the field. In college he could, but those wiffle balls get intercepted at this level.

He's not going to be able to play like he did in college, but there's no reason he can't change. I still think his mobility is a huge weapon, he'll just have to gather himself to make accurate throws if he wants to run around to extend plays.

It's too early to make final judgments but it's healthy to judge each and every game. He has plenty of time to prove me wrong but I don't think he's ever going to be a decent NFL QB

[Sea Ray]

But need I remind you that the Browns did the same to the Bengals a month earlier.Two enigmatic teams. ;)



Perhaps but that's where the similarities end. One team is in first place and the other is out of the playoff picture. I wouldn't describe the Browns as enigmatic. It's a different team. They were decent when the Bengals played them. They're flat out bad now. Do you expect that to change in their last two games? I don't

[Sea Ray]

Thank you buddy! :thumbup:

All this stuff about Manziel's height is laughable. Saying someone is too short is simply lazy analysis IMO. Here's a very good article that does an analysis, and debunks this.....

Tall Task: Does Height Matter For NFL Quarterbacks? .... http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/tall-task-does-height-matter-for-nfl-quarterbacks/22067/

There's a pretty solid list of very notable, and highly successful, QBs that were anywhere from 5"11" to 6"1"" on there.

I have no idea what caliber of QB Maniziel is going to become. And some of the "concerns" with Manziel may very well be legitimate. But for anyone to say he doesn't "look" like an NFL QB (whatever that is suppose to mean) or that he's not intelligent or even athletic, and to base that on one game, is, in itself, not too intelligent IMO.

I'm on record as not favoring the Browns drafting him. And it wasn't because I didn't think he'd succeed in the NFL; but because they had two 1st round picks and I think there were better options for them. I really wanted them to take versatile WR Watkins with their first pick. I then preferred Teddy Bridgewater over Manziel later in the round.

I'm simply going to reserve judgment on Johnny. We'll see.

But right now, if you put a majority of the successful QBs behind this offensive line, they'd be frustrated. No, they probably wouldn't have made some of the rookie mistakes Manziel did, but they'd struggle.

That's fine. A week into the Reds season you said that it was too early to judge them (as being poor) offensively. The folks that said that they'd struggle offensively were prophetic whereas you took all season to come to that conclusion.

Obviously Johnny Manziel isn't as bad as the Bengals made him look but I think his NFL ceiling is that of Vince Young

[Assembly Hall]

I thought this was a Bengals forum? LOL

I have no idea how Manziel is gonna turn out. But he is a winner. And one game doesn't make a career or give us viable data on what his success can/might be.

[RedlegJake]

I thought this was a Bengals forum? LOL

I have no idea how Manziel is gonna turn out. But he is a winner. And one game doesn't make a career or give us viable data on what his success can/might be.

He was a winner in college. Big difference. He has yet to prove he is even a decent starter in the NFL.

[Assembly Hall]

He was a winner in college. Big difference. He has yet to prove he is even a decent starter in the NFL.

How much talent did he have around him in college? And yes the college game is different than the pros. We shall see if we need to add Johnny Football to the list of absolute failures after brilliant college careers.

[bucksfan2]

How much talent did he have around him in college? And yes the college game is different than the pros. We shall see if we need to add Johnny Football to the list of absolute failures after brilliant college careers.

Two straight of his LT's went in the top 5 in drafts.

His top WR is has been the best rookie WR this season.

[traderumor]

The issue I have with the Browns is not as much that they drafted Manziel, but that they did so with a 1st round pick. But the NFL eats Manziel types for a snack. He may have a hero moment here or there, but he is your typical dime-a-dozen over the years successful college QB that just does not translate to the pro game.

[Hoosier Red]

The issue I have with the Browns is not as much that they drafted Manziel, but that they did so with a 1st round pick. But the NFL eats Manziel types for a snack. He may have a hero moment here or there, but he is your typical dime-a-dozen over the years successful college QB that just does not translate to the pro game.

The first round issues is interesting to me.
Had Manziel been drafted high in the 2nd round, it wouldn't have been nearly as big of a controversy early on that he was sitting behind an experienced QB. He wouldn't have necessarily been greeted as the savior when he was put in the lineup.

Of course he's Johnny Freaking Football and Andy Dalton's everything else, but I really think it's funny to see the amount of attention that goes into everything Manziel did this offseason/season. In comparison, Dalton was able to fly under the radar, and quietly gain the trust of his teammates before anyone expected even a little bit of a result.

[traderumor]

The first round issues is interesting to me.
Had Manziel been drafted high in the 2nd round, it wouldn't have been nearly as big of a controversy early on that he was sitting behind an experienced QB. He wouldn't have necessarily been greeted as the savior when he was put in the lineup.

Of course he's Johnny Freaking Football and Andy Dalton's everything else, but I really think it's funny to see the amount of attention that goes into everything Manziel did this offseason/season. In comparison, Dalton was able to fly under the radar, and quietly gain the trust of his teammates before anyone expected even a little bit of a result.I wouldn't draft anyone of his type until a late round as a lottery chance that he might be the exceptional case in all the types like him. Otherwise, if someone else nabbed him, I'd thank them for saving me from myself.

[Kingspoint]

Thank you buddy! :thumbup:

All this stuff about Manziel's height is laughable. Saying someone is too short is simply lazy analysis IMO. Here's a very good article that does an analysis, and debunks this.....

Tall Task: Does Height Matter For NFL Quarterbacks? .... http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/tall-task-does-height-matter-for-nfl-quarterbacks/22067/

There's a pretty solid list of very notable, and highly successful, QBs that were anywhere from 5"11" to 6"1"" on there.

I have no idea what caliber of QB Maniziel is going to become. And some of the "concerns" with Manziel may very well be legitimate. But for anyone to say he doesn't "look" like an NFL QB (whatever that is suppose to mean) or that he's not intelligent or even athletic, and to base that on one game, is, in itself, not too intelligent IMO.

I'm on record as not favoring the Browns drafting him. And it wasn't because I didn't think he'd succeed in the NFL; but because they had two 1st round picks and I think there were better options for them. I really wanted them to take versatile WR Watkins with their first pick. I then preferred Teddy Bridgewater over Manziel later in the round.

I'm simply going to reserve judgment on Johnny. We'll see.

But right now, if you put a majority of the successful QBs behind this offensive line, they'd be frustrated. No, they probably wouldn't have made some of the rookie mistakes Manziel did, but they'd struggle.

GAC, Johnny Manziel is undedicated, unprofessional, lazy, and does not have any abilities that translate into guiding an NFL team to a Super Bowl title, be that as game-manager, leader, or producer of points. It has nothing to do with his height. Marvin was just making a joke. He had no business being drafted or even invited to an NFL camp. Every day he is on the Cleveland roster sets their franchise further back in time and delays their opportunity for growth, while wasting what assets they currently have on the team. The only reason he is on the team is because the Cleveland Browns owner is a complete buffoon.

I have nothing personally against Cleveland since I've never lived in Ohio. I don't root against the Browns like most Bengals fans do. I'd like to see them become respectable, as it would make the Bengals look better if they are in a division that's strong. (However, I'd be happy if the Steelers would go 0-16 every season.) But, Johnny Manziel is a complete joke on the Kim Kardashian scale. He's a freak show. The Cleveland Brown franchise has a strong NFL history and it deserves better than this. It's named after Paul Brown. How can anyone hate them? (yeah, I know the story of how Paul Brown was ousted)

First and foremost about Manziel is that he has zero leadership qualities. That comes first in any Quarterback (See Jay Cutler).

[Kingspoint]

I wouldn't draft anyone of his type until a late round as a lottery chance that he might be the exceptional case in all the types like him. Otherwise, if someone else nabbed him, I'd thank them for saving me from myself.

Even Russell Wilson, whom the Seahawks identified as having good potential, was drafted in the 3rd. They were collecting QB's that off-season in hopes of finding one that could play.

[GAC]

Perhaps but that's where the similarities end. One team is in first place and the other is out of the playoff picture. I wouldn't describe the Browns as enigmatic. It's a different team. They were decent when the Bengals played them. They're flat out bad now. Do you expect that to change in their last two games? I don't

The Browns weren't out of the play-off picture, nor the division, when they went into last week's game were they? Does that say anything? You say the Browns are flat-out bad, and it's obvious your conclusion is rooted in last week's game. So that tells me you really haven't watched or followed this team, to any large degree, much this year at all. I've watched every game (as well as the Bengals).

The 5-3 Browns were "decent" when they played Cincy back in week 10? I'm going to love hearing your explanation how the Bengals allowed a "decent", or flat-out bad team (as you claim), to totally dominate them that night in every aspect of the game? In fact, going into that prime-time game, the Browns had won 4 of their last 5 games, and that included a solid trouncing of the Steelers. Afterwards, all I heard from my Steeler co-workers was "You guys kicked our @@@!", and not this "You guys are decent" (LOL).

No, the Browns have not played good ball over the last month. That's obvious. But again, that "slide" is more related to very key injuries (offensively) then anything else. And that's not saying, as RedsFaithful pointed out earlier, that this team doesn't have issues either. But let me fill you in on something..... going into this season, especially here in central Ohio that is 50/50 Browns/Bengals, a vast majority of Brown fans only wanted to see one thing - positive direction. Some signs that this team was finally taking the right steps on that path to improving this team and making them a contender. We have a new head coach and coaching staff trying to implement an entirely new offensive/defensive scheme. We also were starting a lot of younger players too. The fact that this team played so well for a good part of the season, was in the hunt, was simply an added plus.

So can you even acknowledge that? This team is 7-7. That's not flat-out bad. That would be teams like Oakland, Jets, Tampa Bay, and a good portion of the NFC South (LOL). And no, I don't expect much in these last two games - we could very well end up 7-9 - and that's because our last two opponents have very good defenses vs a makeshift offensive line.

As far as what I meant by the Bengals and Browns being "enigmatic" (i.e puzzling) ... it's rooted in watching these two teams playing solid football one Sunday, then going out vs inferior, weaker, teams and have you scratching your head wondering if this is the same team you watched the week prior. They both have been erratic (uneven) at times. You disagree?

As for this Sunday?

GO BENGALS!

http://taylorblitztimes.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/cincinnati-bengals-hide-480x320.jpg

[GAC]

That's fine. A week into the Reds season you said that it was too early to judge them (as being poor) offensively. The folks that said that they'd struggle offensively were prophetic whereas you took all season to come to that conclusion.

What the heck does this have to do with the price of beans? A pretty poor attempt at trying to take a swipe at me. LOL

And besides that - it's pure BS! Sure, like a lot of RZ members, going into the season, I didn't make any sound judgments on how good/bad the Red's offense would be because I was trying to hold onto some optimism. D'uh. But I'm not going to waste my time going back and find discussion/quotes I made in the early stages of the season where I, like a majority, were questioning the Red's offensive production (OB%, lead-off, #4 hitter, key injuries, etc), and did so throughout the season. But they're there.

[GAC]

He was a winner in college. Big difference. He has yet to prove he is even a decent starter in the NFL.


How much talent did he have around him in college? And yes the college game is different than the pros. We shall see if we need to add Johnny Football to the list of absolute failures after brilliant college careers.

Both of these are valid, and fair, points gentlemen. And, IMO, it's not a question that will be answered fully this year.

As far as the question as to whether Manziel has the talent around him? I say yes. It's there in the receiving corp (WRs/TEs), and I love our rookie RBs (West, Crowell).

Prior to the season I read an article on what kind of offensive scheme this new coaching staff was wanting to implement, and it mainly revolved around the running game/ball control complemented with the passing game. And, IMO, that's why they drafted Manziel, to manage/implement that scheme. He's not going to be, nor does this coaching staff expect him to be, an "elite" throwing QB, putting up massive yardage/game like a Manning, Brady, Brees, etc. In other words, like the QBs mentioned, their success (wins) is highly dependent on his arm.

Take Russell Wilson for example. Yes, he has a SB ring, and he is a good QB. But is he an elite QB in the caliber of a Manning, Brady, Brees, etc? That debate is still on-going. He certainly isn't making the case this year IF you go strictly by the numbers. Good article IMO ..... http://wallstcheatsheet.com/sports/is-russell-wilson-an-elite-nfl-quarterback.html/?a=viewall

This is a QB who only averages around 200/yds/game. Last year, he had 6 games well under 200 yds passing. Opponents have discovered -and it's noticeable this year - that when they can keep Wilson in the pocket, he is an average QB. But when forced out of the pocket (play action) - look out! The guy excels. But what I see with Wilson, as to why he is so successful (and a winner), is that he is smart, has a good head on his shoulders, and that translates into a solid game manager (leader). He simply gets the job done by the end of the day. And isn't that all that matters?

IMO, and from studying the Brown's approach (offensive scheme), I think that is what they have in mind with Manziel. They don't expect their efforts to win consistently, to contend, to be solely on his arm. And thank God for that (LOL).

Now will that work? Don't know. I do know that going into next year they have two main issues to address if they expect to continue to improve... bolster their offensive line. Losing C Mack hurt, but even when he returns they still need to address this if they want their rookie RBs, as well as Manziel, to have any success.

Their defensive secondary is one of the best in the NFL. But their run defensive has been erratic all season, and turned horrendous with injuries to Karlos Dansby and Phil Taylor.

[HeatherC1212]

If the Chargers lose tonight, does that mean the Bengals clinch at least a playoff birth tonight or does another team have to lose tomorrow as well? (Sorry to distract from the random Browns talk but I had to ask a Bengals question while I was thinking of it, LOL ;))

[dabvu2498]

If the Chargers lose tonight, does that mean the Bengals clinch at least a playoff birth tonight or does another team have to lose tomorrow as well? (Sorry to distract from the random Browns talk but I had to ask a Bengals question while I was thinking of it, LOL ;))

I believe that it's the Chargers, Chiefs and Bills who have to lose for the Bengals to clinch.

[HeatherC1212]

I believe that it's the Chargers, Chiefs and Bills who have to lose for the Bengals to clinch.

Thanks! Just trying to keep it all straight this weekend. :)

[Stray]

Man was looking like the 9ers were gonna help us out but Rivers brought em back. Going to OT now.

[Stray]

Welp, two big games left and we gotta win one of them. If you wanna be a playoff team you should be able to handle that.

[Sea Ray]

I thought this was a Bengals forum? LOL

I have no idea how Manziel is gonna turn out. But he is a winner. And one game doesn't make a career or give us viable data on what his success can/might be.

The same could have been written about Tebow a few years ago. The quicker the Browns figure out that Manziel is not an NFL QB, the better it'll be for them. As a Bengal fan, I hope they're really patient with him like a lot of you are.

[Sea Ray]

The first round issues is interesting to me.
Had Manziel been drafted high in the 2nd round, it wouldn't have been nearly as big of a controversy early on that he was sitting behind an experienced QB. He wouldn't have necessarily been greeted as the savior when he was put in the lineup.

Of course he's Johnny Freaking Football and Andy Dalton's everything else, but I really think it's funny to see the amount of attention that goes into everything Manziel did this offseason/season. In comparison, Dalton was able to fly under the radar, and quietly gain the trust of his teammates before anyone expected even a little bit of a result.

What rd he was drafted makes no difference. He still would have been Johnny Football, former Heisman trophy winner...

[Sea Ray]

The Browns weren't out of the play-off picture, nor the division, when they went into last week's game were they? Does that say anything? You say the Browns are flat-out bad, and it's obvious your conclusion is rooted in last week's game. So that tells me you really haven't watched or followed this team, to any large degree, much this year at all. I've watched every game (as well as the Bengals).

The 5-3 Browns were "decent" when they played Cincy back in week 10? I'm going to love hearing your explanation how the Bengals allowed a "decent", or flat-out bad team (as you claim), to totally dominate them that night in every aspect of the game? In fact, going into that prime-time game, the Browns had won 4 of their last 5 games, and that included a solid trouncing of the Steelers. Afterwards, all I heard from my Steeler co-workers was "You guys kicked our @@@!", and not this "You guys are decent" (LOL).

No, the Browns have not played good ball over the last month. That's obvious. But again, that "slide" is more related to very key injuries (offensively) then anything else. And that's not saying, as RedsFaithful pointed out earlier, that this team doesn't have issues either. But let me fill you in on something..... going into this season, especially here in central Ohio that is 50/50 Browns/Bengals, a vast majority of Brown fans only wanted to see one thing - positive direction. Some signs that this team was finally taking the right steps on that path to improving this team and making them a contender. We have a new head coach and coaching staff trying to implement an entirely new offensive/defensive scheme. We also were starting a lot of younger players too. The fact that this team played so well for a good part of the season, was in the hunt, was simply an added plus.

So can you even acknowledge that? This team is 7-7. That's not flat-out bad. That would be teams like Oakland, Jets, Tampa Bay, and a good portion of the NFC South (LOL). And no, I don't expect much in these last two games - we could very well end up 7-9 - and that's because our last two opponents have very good defenses vs a makeshift offensive line.

As far as what I meant by the Bengals and Browns being "enigmatic" (i.e puzzling) ... it's rooted in watching these two teams playing solid football one Sunday, then going out vs inferior, weaker, teams and have you scratching your head wondering if this is the same team you watched the week prior. They both have been erratic (uneven) at times. You disagree?

As for this Sunday?

GO BENGALS!


Did you miss it when I said this two pages ago?




Your comments about injuries etc are well founded. That was not the same Browns team that we saw in the first half of the year

Here I'm agreeing with much of what you're still talking about. You're arguing with a wall. We're both on the same page. We agree


If you miss one word, you miss my entire point. You seem to forget that I said that they're flat out bad NOW. That means your comments before last week are pointless. The Browns NOW are not the same Browns from earlier in the season, for the reasons both of us mentioned: injuries. Do you want to argue that point or do you wish to continue to argue points I didn't make?

[Sea Ray]

What the heck does this have to do with the price of beans? A pretty poor attempt at trying to take a swipe at me. LOL

And besides that - it's pure BS! Sure, like a lot of RZ members, going into the season, I didn't make any sound judgments on how good/bad the Red's offense would be because I was trying to hold onto some optimism. D'uh. But I'm not going to waste my time going back and find discussion/quotes I made in the early stages of the season where I, like a majority, were questioning the Red's offensive production (OB%, lead-off, #4 hitter, key injuries, etc), and did so throughout the season. But they're there.

That's fine. You're now trying to hold onto optimism about the Browns. A lot of fans do that. What's the problem?

[Dom Heffner]

The Browns are a decent team, they have a great defense but nothing going on with the offense.

The first time they played the Bengals they faced one of the worst QB performances in the history of football.

They also got some turnover breaks early in the game.

[Stray]

Can't bring myself to root for the Steelers today, but if KC wins that guarantees either the Chiefs or Chargers will get to 10 wins...well unless they tie.

[Dom Heffner]

Can't bring myself to root for the Steelers today, but if KC wins that guarantees either the Chiefs or Chargers will get to 10 wins...well unless they tie.

I think we root for the Chiefs to lose. I can't root for the Steelers to win.

[Dom Heffner]

Someone tell the Chiefs to take the field goal there...dumb.

[Stray]

Lotta weird games going on.

Jets giving the Patriots a game, and Baltimore has no showed in Houston so far. Flacco looks Thursday night Dalton against the Browns bad.

[WrongVerb]

Lotta weird games going on.

Jets giving the Patriots a game, and Baltimore has no showed in Houston so far. Flacco looks Thursday night Dalton against the Browns bad.

Flacco had a 0.0 QBR in the first half of the game.

[Stray]

Bills lost
KC lost
Baltimore lost

Pretty good day for the Bengals. Would be nice to clinch our berth tomorrow night, but either way we'll play for the division next Sunday.

[top6]

Very good day; kind of frustrating that San Diego pulled out that win last night or the Bengals could be in.

Near as I can tell, the path to the playoffs is pretty simple. The Bengals are in if: (1) they beat the Broncos; OR (2) they beat the Steelers; OR (3) the Chargers lose at the Chiefs; OR (4) the Ravens lose to the Browns at home.

They win the division if they beat the Steelers. (The Broncos game is meaningless in terms of helping them win the division.)

They still have a mathematical chance at the 2 seed/first round bye, if they beat the Broncos and the Steelers and also the Broncos lose to the Raiders in Week 17.

There are lots of scenarios where they are the 3, 4, 5 or 6 seed if they do make the playoffs.

I know the last few years have been frustrating in their own way, but from 1991-2003 (when I was growing up) all I wanted was for the Bengals to be part of these type of scenarios and playing interesting football in December. I try not to take it for granted. This is MUCH better than worrying about whether our coach will be fired and which of the top 10 draft picks we will get.

[Dom Heffner]

The Bengals most likely lose out, am I correct in saying a San Diego loss at KC gets them in if that plays out?

[UKFlounder]

“@AdamSchefter: Looking like Pittsburgh vs Cincinnati is the favorite to be flexed to SNF next week.”

[Stray]

Glad we're gonna have two prime time games in a row to end the year. If they wanna make the playoffs they're gonna have to play well with everyone watching, and if they do, they'll get to the playoffs and play their 3rd straight playoff atmosphere type game. If they stink it up both weeks we don't deserve it.

[GAC]

but either way we'll play for the division next Sunday.

In Pittsburgh. IMO, not a good situation to be in. But GO BENGALS!!

Now is the time of year when you go back and look at a couple games. Especially that tie vs Carolina.

[Boss-Hog]

If my math is correct, even if the Bengals had won that tie game, they'd still have to go to Pittsburgh and win on Sunday to clinch the division. However, they'd be assured of being in the playoffs prior to tonight's game against the Broncos (as would also be the case if not for the 49ers' meltdown on Saturday night :angry:), and they'd have been the two seed if they won out (without requiring a Broncos loss at home to the Raiders next week).

[WrongVerb]

Glad we're gonna have two prime time games in a row to end the year. If they wanna make the playoffs they're gonna have to play well with everyone watching, and if they do, they'll get to the playoffs and play their 3rd straight playoff atmosphere type game. If they stink it up both weeks we don't deserve it.

This is what I think too. If the Bengals, and especially Dalton, can't get over the yips when on national TV, they don't deserve to go anywhere in the post season.

- - - Updated - - -


If my math is correct, even if the Bengals had won that tie game, they'd still have to go to Pittsburgh and win on Sunday to clinch the division. However, they'd be assured of being in the playoffs prior to tonight's game against the Broncos (as would also be the case if not for the 49ers' meltdown on Saturday night :angry:), and they'd have been the two seed if they won out (without requiring a Broncos loss at home to the Raiders next week).

Kinda goes to show how an entire season can turn on a single play, doesn't it?

[traderumor]

I call sample size violation on Bengals having the "yips" on National TV. So far, this particular group had a bad game on a short week vs. the Browns and have been inconsistent all year. They also played one of those on a Sunday at 1pm in Indy, a regional game. I guess if they get embarrassed in the next two games, I'll admit it, but right now its one of those things that is a fact with little meaning.

[Sea Ray]

I call sample size violation on Bengals having the "yips" on National TV. So far, this particular group had a bad game on a short week vs. the Browns and have been inconsistent all year. They also played one of those on a Sunday at 1pm in Indy, a regional game. I guess if they get embarrassed in the next two games, I'll admit it, but right now its one of those things that is a fact with little meaning.

The main vision us Bengal fans have of national tv are all those playoff games. They gotta get past this issue, real or not

[Big Red Smokey]

I'm not gonna be upset if Brock Osweiler lines up under Center tonight...

[bucksfan2]

I don't think this game is close. I think it is a two score game and has little buzz in the 4th. I have no idea which way it is going to swing now. If I were a betting man I would put money on the Broncos and not think twice. But then again I could see it swinging the other way, especially if good Andy shows up.

[traderumor]

The main vision us Bengal fans have of national tv are all those playoff games. They gotta get past this issue, real or notOf winning playoff games? Sure. I just think it has nothing to do with "national TV." They have trouble beating legit playoff teams, whether they play regionally at 1 or in prime time.

[Sea Ray]

Of winning playoff games? Sure. I just think it has nothing to do with "national TV." They have trouble beating legit playoff teams, whether they play regionally at 1 or in prime time.

It's not just losing. It's the way they've lost. Their playoff games haven't even been exciting in the 4th qtr. They completely lay an egg

[Stray]

I don't think it's so much about them proving to us or the media that they can win these games, at this point it has to be in their own heads. Two opportunities to win huge playoff type games with everyone watching...if they can do it I think they can go on a playoff run. If they can't then it's not like we'd have won the Superbowl anyway.

Jeremy Hill seems like the kinda guy that loves the spotlight. A big game from him keeps the Broncos offense on the sideline.

And Dalton just needs to take care of the ball. He doesn't need to throw 3tds and 300 yards, just make the plays and keep it close in the 4th. He has a knack for making that big drive in the 4th quarter when we need it.

[Redsfaithful]

The Bengals are going to ball out the next two weeks. I have no idea why but I feel optimistic. At some point they are going to rise to the moment, why not now?

Every team has injuries, of course, but the level of injury for the Bengals this year seems pretty high. And yet they have 9 wins in a tough division, they've won 4 out of 5, Vegas doesn't see them as a huge dog tonight or next week, so why not, I'm all in on optimism.

[Tom Servo]

Andy Dalton bad. Jeremy Hill good.

[Stray]

Peyton doesn't look right at all. Maybe his thigh injury is worse than they're saying

[George Foster]

Peyton doesn't look right at all. Maybe his thigh injury is worse than they're sayingIt's a different offense than he has been use to...they run a lot more. Peyton can't get in a rhythm. Their O line can't protect him.

Referring to Dalton....can you think of game in the last 6-8 weeks that he has not had a major screw up? He is not a "big time" QB. He is average at best. When was the last big game (playoff or Monday night football, etc) that he has come up big...with no huge mistakes?

[George Foster]

I'm not worried about Peyton beating us....I worried about Dalton beating us.

[Stray]

It's a different offense than he has been use to...they run a lot more. Peyton can't get in a rhythm. Their O line can't protect him.

Referring to Dalton....can you think of game in the last 6-8 weeks that he has not had a major screw up? He is not a "big time" QB. He is average at best. When was the last big game (playoff or Monday night football, etc) that he has come up big...with no huge mistakes?
I meant his body language more than anything. Looks uncomfortable.

[Stray]

Good throw away...don't take sacks or force it if not there

[Stray]

And I can't help but feel like we're not using Bernard the right way, but we had a screen setup for him earlier in the game and instead of setting up his blocker he ran into a tackle. Could have been a huge play but instead it was a few yard gain. Not sure what we should be doing with him to be honest.

[Stray]

That's three really bad throws for Peyton tonight. If he's hurt and they're playing him in this game, they're insane.

17-7...I get nervous when we jump out to leads lol

[Roy Tucker]

Peyton doesn't look right. I think they're protecting him.

Dalton getting a little confidence. Nice turnaround by the Bengals after a disasterous start.

[Redhook]

Go clock go. Go clock go.

[Stray]

Dalton is having a pretty terrible half throwing the ball. He actually hasn't been throwing the ball well for a while now.

I say we keep running it lol.

[dabvu2498]

AJ Green is hurt pretty bad.

[Stray]

AJ Green is hurt pretty bad.

Looks like he's in a lot of pain for sure. No idea what an injury to that part of the arm that isn't a break could be tho. Maybe just a bad bruise?

[villain612]

Cincy defense came to play tonight.

Denver shouldn't push Manning if it risks his health. I doubt we're snagging home field from New England anyway.

[dabvu2498]

Looks like he's in a lot of pain for sure. No idea what an injury to that part of the arm that isn't a break could be tho. Maybe just a bad bruise?

I'd say that's right. I can't fathom how sore that will be tomorrow.

[KoryMac5]

Peyton looks pretty good in that hurry up offense. Guenther needs to get that figured out as Denver has made its second half adjustment.

[Stray]

Killer fumble by Hill. That's his weakness.

[Stray]

Newman is getting torched.

[villain612]

Cincinnati has played well but you can't keep Manning down for long.

[KoryMac5]

Have to find an answer to stop the momentum Denver has now. Can't let them do what Pittsburgh did to us in the 4th.

[villain612]

This will be a good test for Dalton just before the playoffs.

[Stray]

Gotta stay stubborn with Hill, he's our best chance to win.

[Stray]

And if Marvin was so strict about fumbles and playing time, Gresham woulda been benched a long time ago.

[dabvu2498]

Great play by Jones. Then the most miserable penalty.

[villain612]

I'm rooting for Denver to win...but ultimately, I think taunting penalties are stupid.

[KoryMac5]

Gotta be smarter, though I have seen worse taunting than what Jones did.

[The Operator]

Nice punt return by Tate! Nearly a TD.

- - - Updated - - -


Great play by Jones. Then the most miserable penalty.They're consistently their own worst enemy.

[villain612]

this has been a pretty entertaining game.

[Stray]

Win or lose, the team came to play tonight. This hasn't been the usual primetime dud.

[villain612]

Sorry but horrible call on Thomas there.

[Stray]

Give the ball to Hill and hope he hangs onto it. Run this thing out please.

[The Operator]

1st career sack for Taylor Mays and it's Peyton Manning. Way to knock the old man on his butt!

[dabvu2498]

Sorry but horrible call on Thomas there.

Disagree. He got him by the facemask. Not brutally, but enough that it allowed him to get around.

[The Operator]

Sorry but horrible call on Thomas there.Replay does seem to confirm the penalty, I've seen guys get away with worse though.

[RedEye]

A QB worth beans scores here.

[villain612]

It's one of those situations where I guess you could call it.

But I see that same contact on regular plays all the time though.

[The Operator]

Boy this offense is insanely frustrating at times.

[Stray]

Punting the ball to Peyton with a 2 point lead. What's the worst that can happen?

[RedEye]

Andy has no one to blame but himself if they lose. I know Hill fumbled, but he's the reason they are in the game to begin with, too. AJ would be playing if Andy hadn't airmailed him twice and then gotten him injured as he tried to catch them.

This game is absolutely killing me.

[RedEye]

Punting the ball to Peyton with a 2 point lead. What's the worst that can happen?

They get a safety to tie it? :cry:

The fumble and the taunting penalty cost them 6-10 points and most likely the ballgame.

[Redhook]

Andy has no one to blame but himself if they lose. I know Hill fumbled, but he's the reason they are in the game to begin with, too. AJ would be playing if Andy hadn't airmailed him twice and then gotten him injured as he tried to catch them.

This game is absolutely killing me.

Yep. Dalton has stink it up tonight. And you can tell Hue is sick of it with the play calling. He's trying his best to take it out of his hands

[villain612]

Manning with another game winning drive?

Yes please.

[villain612]

Ahhhh. Didn't see that one coming.

Well played Bengals.

[Stray]

Dre!

[RedEye]

Holy shiitake! Dreeeeee!

[The Operator]

Punting the ball to Peyton with a 2 point lead. What's the worst that can happen?A pick-6 FTW!!!

[RedEye]

Great coming out party for Kirkpatrick, eh?

[The Operator]

Nothing I love more than seeing that smug grin wiped off John Fox's face. Priceless.

[Stray]

Dalton has made a couple of bad throws tonight, but Peyton has thrown quite a few very bad throws. He got away with a couple tho.

[RedEye]

Wow. If this holds up, I will be so relieved. There are way too many Steelers fans at my local bar for a comfortable game next week. I would vastly prefer them to have already clinched the playoffs.

[Stray]

Just don't get beat deep and make this difficult please.

[villain612]

Wow. If this holds up, I will be so relieved. There are way too many Steelers fans at my local bar for a comfortable game next week. I would vastly prefer them to have already clinched the playoffs.

I friggin loathe the Steelers.

[RedEye]

I have been burned far too many times to take this one for granted yet.

[The Operator]

That's an interception!

yea baby!

[Stray]

Ball moved a little when he rolled over but he had his knee down in bounds.

Looks like an int to this Bengals fan.

[Roy Tucker]

Raggedy game.

[RedEye]

Wow. Anyone think Dre should start over Newman now? ;)

[Stray]

Underrated move of the game goes to the coaching staff. Newman was getting burned by Thomas and they benched him for Kirkpatrick who came up huge when we needed it.

[RedEye]

Playoffs? You wanna talk playoffs?

I do. :D

[villain612]

Congrats Cincy. You all deserved it.

If its not Denver or Indy, please SOMEONE beat New England in Foxbourough.

[HeatherC1212]

WHOOOOOO DEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :jump: :jump: :jump:

I have to admit that I couldn't watch tonight because it made me too nervous (primetime game, Peyton was 8-0 against us, Dalton erraticness, etc) but I did follow the action all night long and HOLY CRAP what a game!! I am SO proud of those guys for playing so well with everything on the line tonight!! GO BENGALS!!!! :lol: :D :lol: :D

[The Operator]

Finally a prime-time win to hang their hat on.

Let's get another one in 6 days and then several more after that!

[The Operator]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54BloVKVIn0

[dabvu2498]

Is a home playoff game now guaranteed?

[The Operator]

Is a home playoff game now guaranteed?We haven't clinched the division yet so I don't think so. It'll all come down to the Pittsburgh game.

[Hoosier Red]

Is a home playoff game now guaranteed?

Nope. Have to win at Pittsburgh to win division and clinch playoff game. So either the Bengals host the #6 seed or Visit the Colts.

[Stray]

Nope. Have to win at Pittsburgh to win division and clinch playoff game. So either the Bengals host the #6 seed or Visit the Colts.

We still have an outside shot at the 2 seed I think.

But Oakland would have to beat Denver lol.

[dabvu2498]

Nope. Have to win at Pittsburgh to win division and clinch playoff game. So either the Bengals host the #6 seed or Visit the Colts.

Crap. I forgot the Colts.

[Stray]

So if we win next week the 6 seed would be Pittsburgh, right?

Beating Indy sounds preferable to beating Pittsburgh two straight weeks.

[RedEye]

So if we win next week the 6 seed would be Pittsburgh, right?

Beating Indy sounds preferable to beating Pittsburgh two straight weeks.

+1. My stomach can't take two straight weeks in Pittsburgh. I think Indy is beatable, too. Not if the Bengals play like they played last time, no -- but beatable.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

I gotta say. Great win! So that's Dre Kirkpatrick, huh? He and Pac Man are money players.

[CTA513]

I gotta say. Great win! So that's Dre Kirkpatrick, huh? He and Pac Man are money players.

Hes looked good when healthy, though it looks like hes having to earn his playing time through special teams.

[Sea Ray]

Peyton doesn't look right at all. Maybe his thigh injury is worse than they're saying

He looked old to me. Not good

[WrongVerb]

Takeaways from the game:

The coaching staff did a great, wonderful, superb, masterful job at game-planning on both sides of the ball. NFL Football is a chess match, and they were playing like Bobby Fisher last night.

Something is either really wrong with Peyton, or he's getting old in a hurry. Or both.

Jeremy Hill is a beast. But we already knew that. I think he introduced himself to the national stage tonight. My new nickname for him: Hot Knife, because he goes through defenses like they were butter.

Some might be tempted to point out that Denver had some big-time players out last night. But so did the Bengals. They were without Burfict, Smith, Lamur and essentially Green. And Newman (injured?) was getting owned, which is how DreK ended up there.

Speaking of Kirkpatrick, I've been one of the few on here who has held back on his opinion of the guy. But I think after seeing him healthy for a full year, seeing him do it on special teams and filling in at CB, I'm liking what I'm seeing. And honestly, I don't think the day can come too soon when he and Dennard are both starting. Passing teams are going to hate facing the Bengals. Running teams too, because both those guys can hit.

Dalton. Well, um...yeah.

Sure hope Green isn't seriously injured. Guessing a bone bruise or pulled bicep or something like that.

I've been watching football for 30 years. I don't know why, but I'm really enjoying this season in a way I never have before. I think I'm seeing the game in a different way. Regardless, it's been a LOT of fun to watch.

[Sea Ray]

Holy shiitake! Dreeeeee!

Just wonderin'....did Dre replace Newman because of injury or performance? Newman was burned repeatedly in the 3rd qtr. I was yelling at my tv set to replace him with Dre because he could not cover Thomas

[Sea Ray]

Raggedy game.

Bengals played very well for 3 out of 4 qtrs. Ran the ball for over 200 yds. Defense got pressure on Peyton. I thought it was a very good game if you're a Bengal fan

[Sea Ray]

Something is either really wrong with Peyton, or he's getting old in a hurry. Or both.



Peyton said after the game that he's not hurt...if he's telling the truth then that's horrible news. That means he's old

[RedTeamGo!]

Peyton said after the game that he's not hurt...if he's telling the truth then that's horrible news. That means he's old

It also means he had a bad game in a cold downpour. He still had 300+ yards, the INTs were killer, though.

He has 4,500 yards and 39 TDs on the season. He is getting older, but that is a very good season for anyone.

I am glad we get to watch a local team in the NFL playoffs this year, the Bengals defense played really well. If the offense can protect the ball and not commit stupid turnovers - Jeremy Hill and Jermaine Gresham I am looking at you - this defense will keep them in games with anyone if they play like they did against Denver.

As long as Dalton doesn't have his playoff meltdown this should be a tough team to knock out.

[Hoosier Red]

+1. My stomach can't take two straight weeks in Pittsburgh. I think Indy is beatable, too. Not if the Bengals play like they played last time, no -- but beatable.

According to this tweet, the Bengals are locked in as either the #2,#3 or #5 seed. And Pittsburgh looks to be #5 Seed with a loss. So no matter what, it's either at Colts, or home to someone not named Pittsburgh, or a bye.

https://twitter.com/BrianGulish/status/547372944658546688/photo/1

[traderumor]

I reverse jinxed the Peyton's I guess. I went to bed proclaiming to my sons that "we all know how this ends boys, and it isn't the Bengals winning." I read for a bit, checked back and it was apparently right after the PacMan pick. I still figured we would lose by 1 at that point, its just the way it goes for the Bengals. Pouring rain or not, they answered a Manning knockout punch. I turned it back on right after the Kirkpatrick pick 6. A nice pleasant surprise.

From here, not sure what to think. Does it matter who or where we play? Despite the first matchup, Indy does not seem like an insurmountable game, and home field advantage has not really helped in the playoffs. Really the only team I feel we have no chance against is New England, but then they slide by the Jets. Playoffitis?

[bucksfan2]

It also means he had a bad game in a cold downpour. He still had 300+ yards, the INTs were killer, though.

He has 4,500 yards and 39 TDs on the season. He is getting older, but that is a very good season for anyone.

I am glad we get to watch a local team in the NFL playoffs this year, the Bengals defense played really well. If the offense can protect the ball and not commit stupid turnovers - Jeremy Hill and Jermaine Gresham I am looking at you - this defense will keep them in games with anyone if they play like they did against Denver.

As long as Dalton doesn't have his playoff meltdown this should be a tough team to knock out.

Peyton is not playing well at all, he is not moving well, his arm strength which was always a little weak, is getting worse. He still has that uncanny ability to drop perfect passes into a small window, but those throws are now fewer.

Most of Peyton's numbers were put up early in the year, IIRC they had struggled to score over the past month. He looked great in the 3rd quarter, was running the no huddle to a tee scoring 21 straight points, but other than that burst Peyton looked rather ordinary or even poor. The clinching INT was a terrible pass, almost as bad as some of Dalton's left handed passes, and the INT to end the game was another poor throw, one we are not accustomed to seeing Peyton make.

I think the book is out right now on how to stop the Broncos, stop the run, allow the short passes, but don't get burned deep. IMO if the Broncos are going to advance this postseason it will be on the backs of the defense stepping up. Peyton is good enough to get them 20 points, but will that be enough?

[Redsfaithful]

The Bengals are going to ball out the next two weeks. I have no idea why but I feel optimistic. At some point they are going to rise to the moment, why not now?

Every team has injuries, of course, but the level of injury for the Bengals this year seems pretty high. And yet they have 9 wins in a tough division, they've won 4 out of 5, Vegas doesn't see them as a huge dog tonight or next week, so why not, I'm all in on optimism.

3 point underdogs in Pittsburgh next week, I think they can do it.

Win out, probably get Baltimore or San Diego at home. You really can't ask for more than that.

And worst case, going to Indy is fine with me. I think the earlier game might actually be a positive and not a negative. Pretty much guarantees they wouldn't come out flat.

[RedTeamGo!]

Peyton is not playing well at all, he is not moving well, his arm strength which was always a little weak, is getting worse. He still has that uncanny ability to drop perfect passes into a small window, but those throws are now fewer.

Most of Peyton's numbers were put up early in the year, IIRC they had struggled to score over the past month. He looked great in the 3rd quarter, was running the no huddle to a tee scoring 21 straight points, but other than that burst Peyton looked rather ordinary or even poor. The clinching INT was a terrible pass, almost as bad as some of Dalton's left handed passes, and the INT to end the game was another poor throw, one we are not accustomed to seeing Peyton make.

I think the book is out right now on how to stop the Broncos, stop the run, allow the short passes, but don't get burned deep. IMO if the Broncos are going to advance this postseason it will be on the backs of the defense stepping up. Peyton is good enough to get them 20 points, but will that be enough?

Very good points - I think The Patriots are going to win it this year. Brady's last hoorah.

[Stray]

Hue deserves a lot of credit for essentially taking Demarcus Ware and Von Miller out of the game. He ran so many misdirections, read options and screens at them they didn't know what to do.

[bucksfan2]

Very good points - I think The Patriots are going to win it this year. Brady's last hoorah.

I think the Pats clearly are the favorites in the AFC. I just don't know how they will match up against the NFC's best. If they match up against the Seahawks in the Super Bowl I think Seattle is the better team. But then again as long as Gronk is healthy the Pats create huge match up issues.

[RedEye]

Just wonderin'....did Dre replace Newman because of injury or performance? Newman was burned repeatedly in the 3rd qtr. I was yelling at my tv set to replace him with Dre because he could not cover Thomas

My sense was they replaced Newman because he was getting owned. But heck, the guy is ancient for an NFL corner. It was a matter of time and Newman will be an awesome insurance policy in case Dre does start now. Will be interesting to see how the coaches handle this; Dre has been very patient riding the pine and excelling on special teams for a few years now. He looks lithe and fast on the field -- I have to think Guenther sees him as a difference maker.

[RedEye]

I think the Pats clearly are the favorites in the AFC. I just don't know how they will match up against the NFC's best. If they match up against the Seahawks in the Super Bowl I think Seattle is the better team. But then again as long as Gronk is healthy the Pats create huge match up issues.

Watch out for Green Bay though. The Pack are amazing on offense and Rodgers can match Brady any day. I think GB is my NFC fave over Seattle honestly.

[Assembly Hall]

I said earlier that getting hot at the right time is important. Very few teams ever dominant for an entire season, especially in this day and age. The Bengals, IMHO, are getting hot at the right time. They are winning games they have to win. They got another big one coming up on their docket. One, that if they win, would secure in my mind that they are the team in the AFC that is on a mission. I look at it this way.......what exactly did the Patriots, Broncos, and Colts do this past week-end to impress? Nada.

[top6]

Here are the scenarios near as I call tell from the ESPN playoff machine. Interestingly, the Bengals' first playoff game could (theoretically) be against any AFC team that is still alive for the playoffs except New England (that's 7 possible teams).

The scenarios are as follows:

If the Bengals lose to Pittsburgh, they are playing at Indy in the first round. (Indy is locked in as the 4 seed and the Bengals have clinched the 5 seed.)

If the Bengals beat Pittsburgh and Denver beats Oakland, then the Bengals are playing the non-Pittsburgh wild card winner at home in the first round. (Pittsburgh has already clinched a wild card berth at least, but I could not find any scenario where the Bengals won and then had to play Pittsburgh next week.) The non-Pittsburgh wild card team will be San Diego (if they beat Kansas City), Baltimore (if they beat Cleveland and San Diego loses), Houston (if they beat Jacksonville and Baltimore and San Diego lose) or Kansas City (if they beat San Diego and Baltimore and Houston lose).

If the Bengals win and Denver loses, then the Bengals have a first round bye. If Denver wins its wild card game, the Bengals would then play Denver at home in the second round regardless of the outcome of the other game. If Denver loses and Indianapolis wins, then the Bengals would play Indianapolis at home in the second round. If Denver and Indianapolis both lose, the Bengals would play Pittsburgh at home in the second round.

[Sea Ray]

Wow. Anyone think Dre should start over Newman now? ;)

They're saying that Newman was pulled because of illness. From Bengals.com:


But Kirkpatrick responded with starting cornerback Terence Newman unable to continue in the middle of the third quarter, sapped by what appeared to be a virus that woke up with him Monday. And Kirkpatrick continued to play key blocking roles on the return teams that hammered the Broncos all night.

[Hoosier Red]

They're saying that Newman was pulled because of illness. From Bengals.com:

I'd guess it's 50% truth, and 50% good relationship management to give the solid vet a valid excuse.

[traderumor]

They're saying that Newman was pulled because of illness. From Bengals.com:

That certainly explains the performance, wished they would have pulled him earlier, that being the case. I imagine his vet status allowed him to stay in longer than others might have been allowed.

[Sea Ray]

That certainly explains the performance, wished they would have pulled him earlier, that being the case. I imagine his vet status allowed him to stay in longer than others might have been allowed.

I agree. You've got two 1st rd CBs sitting on your bench while they're feeding Newman IVs. Why wait for him to give up 100 yards to Thomas before removing him?

[traderumor]

I agree. You've got two 1st rd CBs sitting on your bench while they're feeding Newman IVs. Why wait for him to give up 100 yards to Thomas before removing him?I think some of it had to do with what they were trying to do with extra DBs on the field, at least according to Gruden. I haven't watched a MNF game all year, and my goodness, Gruden goes on and on about the same thing. How many times did he really have to show the Bengals fooling the great and powerful Oz?

[RedEye]

Peyton is not playing well at all, he is not moving well, his arm strength which was always a little weak, is getting worse. He still has that uncanny ability to drop perfect passes into a small window, but those throws are now fewer.

Most of Peyton's numbers were put up early in the year, IIRC they had struggled to score over the past month. He looked great in the 3rd quarter, was running the no huddle to a tee scoring 21 straight points, but other than that burst Peyton looked rather ordinary or even poor. The clinching INT was a terrible pass, almost as bad as some of Dalton's left handed passes, and the INT to end the game was another poor throw, one we are not accustomed to seeing Peyton make.

I think the book is out right now on how to stop the Broncos, stop the run, allow the short passes, but don't get burned deep. IMO if the Broncos are going to advance this postseason it will be on the backs of the defense stepping up. Peyton is good enough to get them 20 points, but will that be enough?

Peyton's arm was always a little weak? I had no idea; he always seemed like a strong-armed QB to me. Maybe he's not John Elway or Dan Marino with his velocity out there, but still...

[RedEye]

Newman had been great all year. This is the first game where I have seen him get beat a lot, and frankly it is less embarrassing when it happens against Manning-Thomas/Sanders. A lot of those catches were pretty sweet, too -- it isn't like he was totally toasted by the WR.

[Todd Gack]

Hue deserves a lot of credit for essentially taking Demarcus Ware and Von Miller out of the game. He ran so many misdirections, read options and screens at them they didn't know what to do.

You can thank Andy for that play calling. If I'm a Bengals fan, I'd still be very worried about Dalton's play. The only positive to come out of this game is that they won (which is a big positive.) But Andy Dalton is the key to every thing. He should have every Bengals fans holding their breath every time he throws the ball. He was arguably worse than Peyton last night.

[RedEye]

You can thank Andy for that play calling. If I'm a Bengals fan, I'd still be very worried about Dalton's play. The only positive to come out of this game is that they won (which is a big positive.) But Andy Dalton is the key to every thing. He should have every Bengals fans holding their breath every time he throws the ball. He was arguably worse than Peyton last night.

I agree that Dalton is still an enormous ? for this team. Kind of hard to compare Dalton and Manning last night though. With the exception of the pick 6, Dalton was just game managing all night while Manning was throwing from behind. Just very different roles they played -- tho I am scared to think of what will happen if Andy has to lead a playoff comeback. Hopefully Hill and Gio and the O-Line can just pave the way and the QB can ride their coattails...

[Stray]

You can thank Andy for that play calling. If I'm a Bengals fan, I'd still be very worried about Dalton's play. The only positive to come out of this game is that they won (which is a big positive.) But Andy Dalton is the key to every thing. He should have every Bengals fans holding their breath every time he throws the ball. He was arguably worse than Peyton last night.

I don't think the play calling had anything to do with Dalton. It's smart to run those kinda plays to slow down pass rushes.

Our reliance on the running game is more about Jeremy Hill being really good and all of the injuries to our receivers. There's a lot of times Dalton drops back and nobody is open...

And if Hue was so worried about Dalton, we wouldn't have been throwing the ball in our 4 minute drill in the pouring rain.

[Kingspoint]

And I can't help but feel like we're not using Bernard the right way, but we had a screen setup for him earlier in the game and instead of setting up his blocker he ran into a tackle. Could have been a huge play but instead it was a few yard gain. Not sure what we should be doing with him to be honest.

Yes. On that play, all three blockers were where they were supposed to be. Dalton threw it where Gio was at rather than where Gio was supposed to be, but Gio ran to the wrong spot to begin with. Instead of a 20+ gain, they got 2-3 yards.

In the 1st Quarter, just like the Cleveland game, Gio got 2 targets (3 vs Cleveland), and looked like he was well on his way towards the 7-10 targets he should be getting. Instead, Gio got just 3 more targets (only 1 more vs Cleveland), where he caught all five of them for 45 yards and a TD. Hue's still reluctant to throw the ball to Gio. I have no idea why because he's shown since he entered the league that he is dangerous in the open field and is a good pass-catcher.

[Kingspoint]

Peyton doesn't look right. I think they're protecting him.



Peyton hasn't looked good the last seven weeks. Age has caught up with him. It does everyone without exception. Anyone old enough to remember Johnny Unitas' last moments? It was sad. From Starr to Staubach to Favre. It happens to all of them.

8355

[Kingspoint]

Looks like he's in a lot of pain for sure. No idea what an injury to that part of the arm that isn't a break could be tho. Maybe just a bad bruise?

From Rotoworld w/ Rotoworld comments:

NFL.com's Albert Breer reports the Bengals are optimistic that A.J. Green (bruised biceps) will be ready for Week 17.

Coach Marvin Lewis said as much in a Tuesday interview with ESPN. Green will undoubtedly miss practice time, but he's looking better than 50-50 to suit up for Sunday's AFC North title game against the Steelers.

Source: Albert Breer on Twitter


A.J. Green (arm) has avoided structural damage, and was dealing with only "swelling" on Tuesday.

Appearing on ESPN's NFL Insiders, Bengals coach Marvin Lewis said Green had already regained his strength by last evening. Green took a first-quarter hit against the Broncos, eventually checking out for the night in the third. It sounds like Green will suit up for Sunday's AFC North title game against the Steelers, but his status can't be taken for granted.

Source: Coley Harvey on Twitter

[Kingspoint]

Newman is getting torched.

He's struggled a lot lately versus big, strong Receivers. He's had five bad games this year, five good games this year, and some mediocre ones thrown in. He's very matchup dependent at this point of his very, very long career. With him getting multiple IV's before the game, Coaches should have realized that the combination of his illness and his being overmatched by Demaryius Thomas was not a good combination and they shouldn't have left him in so long. He gave up 109 yards in the 3rd Quarter alone, while also getting a PI in the endzone that resulted in a TD before he was pulled. Dre came in and saved everybody's bacon.

[Kingspoint]

This will be a good test for Dalton just before the playoffs.

It was a really good test for Hue Jackson and Marvin as they didn't panic and try to force Dalton to win the game. Kudos to them for managing Dalton and the Offense the last quarter-and-a-half without panicking.

[Kingspoint]

Gotta be smarter, though I have seen worse taunting than what Jones did.

I thought it was Jones, too, as the announcer also got it wrong. Turned out to be Reggie Nelson.

[Kingspoint]

It's one of those situations where I guess you could call it.

But I see that same contact on regular plays all the time though.

You watch Demaryius too much. (I've had the pleasure of having DT the last four seasons in both of my keeper leagues...I lose him back to the pool next Summer. He's won me a lot of games.)

[Kingspoint]

Wow. Anyone think Dre should start over Newman now? ;)

Against big and physical Receivers, yes.

[Kingspoint]

...and home field advantage has not really helped in the playoffs.

I prefer having Bengals fans cheering loudly for the team in a playoff game. The Bengals need all the help they can get.

[Kingspoint]

Watch out for Green Bay though. The Pack are amazing on offense and Rodgers can match Brady any day. I think GB is my NFC fave over Seattle honestly.

Rodgers has been in a class by himself the last six seasons.

[Kingspoint]

The Bengals, IMHO, are getting hot at the right time. They are winning games they have to win. They got another big one coming up on their docket. One, that if they win, would secure in my mind that they are the team in the AFC that is on a mission.

We knew going into the season that the Bengals would be at their peak at the end of the season because of:

1. Guenther getting time to put his Defense together.
2. Hue getting time to put his Offense together.
3. Atkins getting a year removed from his surgery.
4. Hall gettting a year removed from his surgery.
5. Bodine getting further along on his learning curve, but there was also the rookie wall, which is real, and could send him the other direction.
6. Dalton getting another year of experience.
7. Hill getting the experience he needs.
8. Dre getting another year of experience.
9. 1st Round pick Dennard getting experience.

[Kingspoint]

Newman had been great all year.
He's had four other bad, not average, but bad games. They've come against big, physical Receivers.

[WrongVerb]

Here are the scenarios near as I call tell from the ESPN playoff machine. Interestingly, the Bengals' first playoff game could (theoretically) be against any AFC team that is still alive for the playoffs except New England (that's 7 possible teams).

The scenarios are as follows:

If the Bengals lose to Pittsburgh, they are playing at Indy in the first round. (Indy is locked in as the 4 seed and the Bengals have clinched the 5 seed.)

If the Bengals beat Pittsburgh and Denver beats Oakland, then the Bengals are playing the non-Pittsburgh wild card winner at home in the first round. (Pittsburgh has already clinched a wild card berth at least, but I could not find any scenario where the Bengals won and then had to play Pittsburgh next week.) The non-Pittsburgh wild card team will be San Diego (if they beat Kansas City), Baltimore (if they beat Cleveland and San Diego loses), Houston (if they beat Jacksonville and Baltimore and San Diego lose) or Kansas City (if they beat San Diego and Baltimore and Houston lose).

If the Bengals win and Denver loses, then the Bengals have a first round bye. If Denver wins its wild card game, the Bengals would then play Denver at home in the second round regardless of the outcome of the other game. If Denver loses and Indianapolis wins, then the Bengals would play Indianapolis at home in the second round. If Denver and Indianapolis both lose, the Bengals would play Pittsburgh at home in the second round.

I'm exhausted just reading that. Thanks for putting it together.

[RedEye]

He's had four other bad, not average, but bad games. They've come against big, physical Receivers.

Huh. I don't remember him giving up many long (20+ yards) passes though. The whole secondary hadn't given up many of those until the last few weeks, right? Anyway, I think Dre's time is here, if not next week than certainly next season.

[Kingspoint]

Huh. I don't remember him giving up many long (20+ yards) passes though. The whole secondary hadn't given up many of those until the last few weeks, right? Anyway, I think Dre's time is here, if not next week than certainly next season.

I don't want it thought that I was implying that he's had a bad season, as he hasn't...for a 38-year old. He's had five really good games, and to have bad games in only 1/4th of the season (it's four, not the five that I said...NE, CAR, CLE1, and DEN), that's really, really good for anyone, yet alone a 38-year old. And, he was sick in the last one (last night) and another of the other three was the first game of the season, where everyone should get a pass.

It was actually three bad games, not four, if you count his game against Tampa Bay as neutral, though he had trouble with Mike Evans, but wasn't always covering him. Newman has only had 8 missed tackles all season (that ranks 21st out of 59 qualifiers in missed-tackles-per-tackle-made). That's about average. But, at 38, his age is showing again at the end of the year, as it did last season. He hasn't had a good game in pass coverage since Week 9. His 1.24 yards-per-cover-snap ranks 29th out of 59 qualifiers, but it's 2.09 since Week 10. I just think his age is showing again at the end of the year, just like Peyton.

A lot of his problems this year is his drops. He's had numerous opportunities for interceptions where he simply dropped the ball. Those are bad plays, plays that should have had a major impact on the game in favor of the Bengals and didn't happen because of the drops.

It's true about him not giving up very many big plays. He gave up a 20 vs NE, a 20 vs JAX, a 23 vs TB, a 32 vs PIT and then the numerous big plays against DEN, while giving up only 2 TD's all season.

We've been lucky to have him perform as well as he has this season while waiting for Kirkpatrick and Dennard to prove worthy of Starting over him.

[RedEye]

I don't want it thought that I was implying that he's had a bad season, as he hasn't...for a 38-year old. He's had five really good games, and to have bad games in only 1/4th of the season (it's four, not the five that I said...NE, CAR, CLE1, and DEN), that's really, really good for anyone, yet alone a 38-year old. And, he was sick in the last one (last night) and another of the other three was the first game of the season, where everyone should get a pass.

It was actually three bad games, not four, if you count his game against Tampa Bay as neutral, though he had trouble with Mike Evans, but wasn't always covering him. Newman has only had 8 missed tackles all season (that ranks 21st out of 59 qualifiers in missed-tackles-per-tackle-made). That's about average. But, at 38, his age is showing again at the end of the year, as it did last season. He hasn't had a good game in pass coverage since Week 9. His 1.24 yards-per-cover-snap ranks 29th out of 59 qualifiers, but it's 2.09 since Week 10. I just think his age is showing again at the end of the year, just like Peyton.

A lot of his problems this year is his drops. He's had numerous opportunities for interceptions where he simply dropped the ball. Those are bad plays, plays that should have had a major impact on the game in favor of the Bengals and didn't happen because of the drops.

It's true about him not giving up very many big plays. He gave up a 20 vs NE, a 20 vs JAX, a 23 vs TB, a 32 vs PIT and then the numerous big plays against DEN, while giving up only 2 TD's all season.

We've been lucky to have him perform as well as he has this season while waiting for Kirkpatrick and Dennard to prove worthy of Starting over him.

Excellent analysis. I take all your points... he is 36 though, isn't he?

PS - anyone ever think of starting a BengalsZone?

[Kingspoint]

Excellent analysis. I take all your points... he is 36 though, isn't he?

PS - anyone ever think of starting a BengalsZone?

I forgot how old he was...just so old that I can't believe he's still playing at a good level in the NFL at a position against athletic freaks of nature. He must be the ultimate professional to keep himself going at this level for so long.

[GAC]

If there is any time of the season where a team needs to put it all together, get fired up and played inspired - It's now. And the Bengals have definitely been doing that. Quite impressive. Especially their defense.

Put that first Pittsburgh game behind you - just like you did the Browns - and even as the "underdog", go into this game wanting to exact R-E-V-E-N-G-E and get that "pound of flesh".

Yes, this game is very winnable IMO. The way the Bengals are playing right now, they can play with anyone (especially in the AFC).

[and I'm hoping I didn't just jinx them, because every prediction I've made about them this year has come back to bite me you know where] :eek:

[bucksfan2]

In regards to Bernard I still think they are using him wrong. I am coming around to the idea of Hill getting the most RB touches out of the two, especially since I have him in a keeper league. I do think that Bernard does need a few more RB touches to keep the defense honest and create match up nightmares. If you solely are using him as a WR the defense is going to adjust. In the play mentioned before, I think Bernard made the wrong cut, something you see quite often. If he cuts inside he has a big gain, he cut outside and was stopped for a short gain.

I think what Newman is doing is remarkable. I thought when the Bengals originally signed him he was done, now a number of years later he is still playing at a high level. Saying he struggles against big WR's is fair, but how many CB's succeed against big, physical WR? I think Dre will get more and more time at CB, probably will be the starter next season, but I think the Bengals really value him on special teams, one reason why they have one of the best ST in the league.

If I see another 2 yard pass to Gresham I think my head will explode. I don't understand why they don't run him down the seams more. I don't understand why they don't try to put him on a LB and create the mismatch. The 2-3-4 yard passes when they aren't for 1st downs or TD's are mind numbing, especially when Gresham has been known to stretch and fumble.

As for Manning he has never been known to have a strong arm. That isn't a knock, guys like JaMarcus Russell had cannons for arms, but Manning has always been very accurate. Most of what he can do now is throw the short passes, throw the quick slants, occasionally throw the ball deep. I think there may be an underlying injury but I also think that Manning's arm is going the way a 38 year olds arm goes. I don't really see him getting healthy as the season goes along, and cold/windy/wet conditions aren't in Denver's favor.

[Hoosier Red]

In regards to Bernard I still think they are using him wrong. I am coming around to the idea of Hill getting the most RB touches out of the two, especially since I have him in a keeper league. I do think that Bernard does need a few more RB touches to keep the defense honest and create match up nightmares. If you solely are using him as a WR the defense is going to adjust. In the play mentioned before, I think Bernard made the wrong cut, something you see quite often. If he cuts inside he has a big gain, he cut outside and was stopped for a short gain.

I think what Newman is doing is remarkable. I thought when the Bengals originally signed him he was done, now a number of years later he is still playing at a high level. Saying he struggles against big WR's is fair, but how many CB's succeed against big, physical WR? I think Dre will get more and more time at CB, probably will be the starter next season, but I think the Bengals really value him on special teams, one reason why they have one of the best ST in the league.

If I see another 2 yard pass to Gresham I think my head will explode. I don't understand why they don't run him down the seams more. I don't understand why they don't try to put him on a LB and create the mismatch. The 2-3-4 yard passes when they aren't for 1st downs or TD's are mind numbing, especially when Gresham has been known to stretch and fumble.

As for Manning he has never been known to have a strong arm. That isn't a knock, guys like JaMarcus Russell had cannons for arms, but Manning has always been very accurate. Most of what he can do now is throw the short passes, throw the quick slants, occasionally throw the ball deep. I think there may be an underlying injury but I also think that Manning's arm is going the way a 38 year olds arm goes. I don't really see him getting healthy as the season goes along, and cold/windy/wet conditions aren't in Denver's favor.

I have no issue with the 2 yard TE pass with the following exceptions, 1)when they need a big gain on 3rd down and it's not a check down. 2)When the route is run in a way where it's hard to do anything more than catch the ball and fall out of bounds.
Getting Gresham the ball on screens and short slants actually makes a lot of sense to me, but they have to give him something to work with.

[Stray]

Would really like to see Hue and Dalton find a way to get Sanu involved in the offense again. He doesn't get many passes thrown his way, and lately he's been dropping a lot of them, but there has to be a way to keep him involved. He's too good to not be used, especially when we are short on quality receivers.

[bucksfan2]

I have no issue with the 2 yard TE pass with the following exceptions, 1)when they need a big gain on 3rd down and it's not a check down. 2)When the route is run in a way where it's hard to do anything more than catch the ball and fall out of bounds.
Getting Gresham the ball on screens and short slants actually makes a lot of sense to me, but they have to give him something to work with.

I like TE screens from time to time, I also don't mind slants, especially if you can get Gresham going north/south and falling forward when tackled. What I don't like are the short throws where there is little room to run, boundary passes where Gresham doesn't advance the ball. Monday Gresham had 9 catches for 62 yards with a long of 20. You take that 20 yarder out of the equation and he averaged 5.25 yards per catch. Gresham falls forward and he gets 5 yards. The way the Bengals have used Gresham is the 2-3 yard dump offs where he doesn't advance the ball at all. That doesn't take advantage of what Gresham can do.

[RedEye]

So what are everyone's thoughts on this Sunday at PIT? The conventional Bengals fan in me sighs with relief that the guys already clinched a playoff spot. The other more hopeful side of me thinks that this year -- for whatever reason -- could be different. Heck, Marvin's teams sometimes play better against the Steelers at their place, right?

Anyhoo...

Do the Bengals win or lose Sunday? And, more importantly, what does next week mean for their postseason chances?

[Big Red Smokey]

So what are everyone's thoughts on this Sunday at PIT? The conventional Bengals fan in me sighs with relief that the guys already clinched a playoff spot. The other more hopeful side of me thinks that this year -- for whatever reason -- could be different. Heck, Marvin's teams sometimes play better against the Steelers at their place, right

Anyhoo...

Do the Bengals win or lose Sunday? And, more importantly, what does next week mean for their postseason chances?

Honestly, as long as Denver wins, then I'm fine with whatever happens.

The Colts don't scare me, had no AJ, no LB's last game.

[Stray]

I'd like to win the division, but I won't be upset at all if we lose on Sunday. KC is without their QB so it looks like SD will win and get in. I'm not sure there's a huge difference between going to Indy and hosting SD, especially since we already played our bad game against Indy this year. There's no way we can play as bad as we did the Colts earlier this year...and Phillip Rivers is getting into one of those Phillip Rivers kinda runs where he just keeps bringing his team back.

[WrongVerb]

I'm kind of thinking along the same lines. Glad they clinched already and aren't playing for the chance to go to the playoffs. BUT I would love to see them win and Denver lose (something is really wrong with Peyton) and maybe slip into the #2 seed. For everything that's gone wrong with the Bengals this year, that would be a great end to the season.

Oh, just to have back that missed FG in OT vs Carolina. Things would be so very different now.

[Dom Heffner]

Excellent analysis. I take all your points... he is 36 though, isn't he?

PS - anyone ever think of starting a BengalsZone?

With its own political forum.

[Assembly Hall]

I think the AFC is wide open this year. I feel the Patriots have the edge, they are tough to beat at their place. But other than that, I think everybody can beat everybody else.

[RedEye]

I think the AFC is wide open this year. I feel the Patriots have the edge, they are tough to beat at their place. But other than that, I think everybody can beat everybody else.

Yeah, I'm thinking this is the Pats year, too -- B & B really want to add another trophy to the case -- but I wouldn't put them down as overwhelming favorites necessarily. The teams that really scare me, actually, are in the NFC, namely Green Bay and Seattle. I think they would both be favorites against the Pats right now.

[Assembly Hall]

Yeah, I'm thinking this is the Pats year, too -- B & B really want to add another trophy to the case -- but I wouldn't put them down as overwhelming favorites necessarily. The teams that really scare me, actually, are in the NFC, namely Green Bay and Seattle. I think they would both be favorites against the Pats right now.

Yeah, and I would throw Dallas into that mix myself.

[Oxilon]

Every year the Pats look unbeatable this time of year. And more often than not, they get bounced. Don't know how or if this could play out, but I could see the Steelers taking the Pats out at their field...than of course the Bengals taking out the Steelers in the AFC Championship. ;)