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Bourgeois Zee
12-31-2014, 11:16 AM
You're the GM and have two moves to make Cincinnati right. What you got?

Here's mine.

1. Reds trade Johnny Cueto and Sean Marshall to the Boston Red Sox for Shane Victorino, Mookie Betts, and Anthony Ranaudo.

Why it works for Boston:
The Red Sox have eight outfielders right now. Eight. Sure, some could play other positions, but there just isn't enough playing time to appease everyone. They're stacked with very good players too, and these players expect to play almost every day. In fact, the only thing they're missing is a true ace.

Enter Cueto.

He's a bone fide number one hurler capable of leading a team through the playoffs. He's also cheap.

Losing Betts may hurt; however, the additions (via free agency) of Ramirez and Sandoval plus a stacked OF (Castillo, Nava, Craig, Nava, Bradley, Ramirez, and Holt) help ease that pain. Should he stay in Boston, how much time would he receive? And it's not like he's a sure thing, either. Plenty of prospects have fizzled after a great minor league career. There's risk there.

Speaking of risk, Marshall is a gamble. He could be a dominant reliever, capable of shutting down opposing hitters for multiple innings. He could be on the shelf the entire year. Regardless, Boston should be willing to take on the risk. Their bullpen is decent, but a guy like Marshall is always great to have. He costs only money, and Boston has that in spades.

Why it works for Cincinnati:
This deal re-stocks the Reds for this year and the future. It does come at a significant cost. However, Cueto has already said he wants to be paid like an ace and isn't willing to sign as friendly a contract as last time. He's looking for ace money (as he should). With Bailey, Votto, Phillips, Chapman, and Bruce already on the team and signed to big contracts, it doesn't seem likely that they can afford him. (It doesn't help that three of those deals are, at this point, too much of a gamble for others to take on.) It really hurts the pitching staff this season, make no mistake.

The best piece the Reds would receive would be Betts. He can play 2B and any of the three OF spots right now. He also has spent time at SS as a prepster and only moved because Bogaerts was in front of him and ticketed as a star. According to scouting services, he could still play there (http://www.scoutingbook.com/players/p3621). I'd move him back to SS for the time being. He'd make up for whatever defensive shortcomings with his prospective bat. If he struggles to make the plays at SS, he could be moved to LF or RF or even CF should someone struggle.

Victorino (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/v/victosh01.shtml) would make an ideal placeholder for Winker or as a fourth OFer should Betts not be able to stick at SS. He's still capable of hitting well enough to be a top of the order hitter. In just the last two years, his numbers are .288/ .341/ .437 .778. That's a lot more than Ludwick's given the Reds in the same time. He also has enough pop left in his bat to hit lower in the order if need be. As a LF, his defense would be plus, and he could also play CF or RF should the other Red OFers need a blow. He does make a ton of money ($13 million), but with the money the Reds saved on the Simon and Latos deals, they could afford it. (This deal actually saves the Reds $3 million overall.)

Lastly, Ranaudo (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/ranauan01.shtml) takes over a rotation spot. He's not Cueto, certainly, but he has promise. His time in the majors was extremely odd, as he gave up home runs at an impossible rate. His minor league career has shown he's actually unlikely to give up all that many dingers and a penchant for . With the Red defense behind him, he could very well become a Simon clone. For the Reds, he'd be a BOR guy to begin with, with Bailey, Cingrani (if he's not moved to the 'pen), and Leake ahead of him and DeSclafani equal. That's not a great rotation, but the Cincinnati defense should help cover its issues. A healthy Cingrani and Bailey would also go a long way to making it at least league average. He's got six years' of team control as well.

2. Reds trade Zack Cozart to the New York Mets for Jon Niese.

Why it works for New York:
The Mets have needed a shortstop seemingly since Rey Ordonez left town. They also really want to get rid of veteran (re, expensive) starters in lieu of prospects. (They are flush with pitching prospects.) They also save a few million with this deal. What's not to like?

Cozart's bat? Okay, fair enough. Let's discuss that.

Cozart's bWAR last year, in his worst offensive season by a wide, wide margin was still 2.4 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/cozarza01.shtml). That makes him .7 runs above average even when he can't hit himself out of a wet paper bag. And he's got a history of being, if not a good offensive player, at least enough of a bat to make himself a solid starter. That's some great value for a pitcher you're looking to dump anyway.

Why it works for Cincinnati:
Niese is an average pitcher (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/n/niesejo01.shtml#contracts) whose peripherals look pretty solid, especially considering the defense he'd have behind him. He's still of an age where he could pitch effectively (and hit another level) over the next five years. Too, his contract is extremely team-friendly, with $7 million his current salary, $9 million in 2016, and two team options for $10 and $11 million beyond that. He'd be a dependable arm in the mold of Brandon Arroyo for the team to build prospects around for four years at a reasonable price.

These deals would make the Reds younger and allow for an extension of the competitive window. They're also salary neutral for the short-term and better balance the team risk equation.

The batting order:
Betts SS
Victorino LF
Votto 1B
Mesoraco C
Bruce RF
Frazier 3B
Hamilton CF
Phillips 2B

Comment: Balanced LH and RH with few weaknesses. Hamilton ahead of Phillips at the end of the order to balance it out and give Phillips the opportunity to increase his obp (via BBs in front of the pitcher) for possible future deal. Power also plays well in the 8th spot. OBP in the first four spots give Bruce, Frazier multiple RBI opportunities. Lots of speed, with four capable of stealing 20+ bases, two capable of 40+. Four also capable of 20+ HR.

The rotation:
Bailey
Leake
Niese
Ranaudo
DeSclafani

Comment: Say hello to a league average rotation. Upside with four starters and defense gives hope that ERA+ will outstrip FIP by half a run. Rotation really depends on Bailey to remain healthy and reach ace status seen in glimpses over the past three years and Leake's continuing emergence as at least a #3. Prospects Lorenzen, Stephenson, Lively make this a tenable deal for the present. Cingrani may be needed in the rotation, as he's been dominant when healthy. Starting depth includes Holmberg in Louisville, the aforementioned Cingrani, Raisel Iglesias at the major league level, Jon Moscot and the three top prospects already mentioned in AAA.

Bullpen:
Chapman CL
Cingrani LH S/U
Diaz RH S/U
Iglesias RH S/U
Parra LOOGY
LeCure ROOGY
Axelrod LH LR
Contreras/ Corcino RH LR

Comment: Some awesome arms here, led by otherworldly Chapman. Price wanted to use him in more unorthodox ways last year. That could be used this year to great effect. Cingrani, Diaz, and Iglesias round out the upper end of the pen, all with very good arms. (Iglesias could also see time in the rotation, but is needed here more.) Parra and LeCure take smaller roles after struggling in 2014. Both should be good in those roles, especially Parra. This might make him tradeable later on as well. Axlerod and/or Contreras/ Corcino would ride the I-71 express between AAA starting and major league long relief. Prospective relievers include any of the minor league starting candidates, Ryan Dennick, Hoover, Magill, Villareal.

Bourgeois Zee
12-31-2014, 12:56 PM
Don't like that one?

How about this one?

Cincinnati trades Homer Bailey to San Diego for Rymer Liriano, Carlos Quentin, and Corey Spangenberg.

1. Why it works for the Padres:
Bailey is just the type of ace a team looking for a post-season run needs. Why would the Reds get rid of him? They have another and need serious help elsewhere. The Padres would slot him as their TOR guy, and he's as capable of anyone in baseball of throwing a no-hitter or dominating hitters on any given date. He's still young enough to improve too. He's also under team control for the next five years and is cheap this year before getting expensive next.

Liriano, Quentin, and Spangenberg are, at best, bench ballast for the Friars and, at worst, possible distractions for a team that is focused on making the playoffs. None are considered can't-miss and both Liriano and Spangenberg have questions that have pushed them down the prospect totem pole.

Why it works for Cincinnati:
It gives them options. Quentin, while a gamble, has put up an 850 OPS in two of the past three years in San Diego. He's only 31 and is only owed through the rest of this season at a fairly reasonable price. He does have a mutual option at $100 million next year. He reminds me a bit of former Red Kevin Mitchell. If he could have half the impact Mitchell's bat did for the Reds, this would be a good deal.

While Quentin solves the LF dilemma for 2015, Liriano provides both a fourth OF now and a possible RF should Bruce continue to struggle later. He's a former top prospect and is rated #4 by Baseball Prospectus this season after being rated the #6 prospect last season by Baseball America. He's a true RFer with plus bat speed and power hiding in his young frame. He's also willing to take a walk and could blossom into a first division starter. Solid prospect with relatively high upside, though far from a sure thing. Still, he's controllable for the next five years and is extremely cheap now.

Corey Spangenberg is the third part of this deal. He's a very good hitter, as evidenced by his .331 BA last year in AA. He also hit well in a cup of coffee for the Friars. While he doesn't walk that much, he does have positional versatility. He played both 3B and LF at the major league level and 2B and CF in the minors. Should he make the team out of Spring Training, Spangenberg could be a poor man's Ben Zobrist, manning CF for Hamilton when he needs a blow, 2B for Phillips, and 3B for Frazier. He's a LH hitter too, which allows for a possible platoon at 2nd if Phillips continues to struggle offensively. Like Liriano, he was once a Top 100 prospect, but is now not even a considered a top 10 guy within the Padre organization.

2. Cincinnati trades Zack Cozart to Oakland for LH RP Fernando Abad.
Why it works for Oakland:
The A's don't have a SS beyond the unfortunately named Marcus Siemen. Cozart offers defensive value (on which Beane is really focused) for a team that may need it. He's still relatively cheap and fungible should they decide to move on to prospects, and he allow Siemen to be a utility player around the infield. (Currently, they don't have that utility guy.) As a security blanket, it'd be tough to beat a 2.4 bWAR at a position of need.

Abad is tough to lose, though it seems as if Beane creates bullpens out of strings and prayer. He has a metric crap ton of pitching to weather the loss.

Why it works for Cincinnati:
This secures a spot for Suarez and provides the pen with a premium arm from the left side. He's still relatively cheap and slots in nicely with the other bullpen options. It also opens up a spot for Eugenio Suarez to play. He's a much better offensive player with solid OBP skills and, according to his minor league numbers, a decent hit tool. That should mean much better balance for the offense.

Lineup:
Hamilton CF
Votto 1B
Mesoraco C
Bruce RF
Quentin LF
Frazier 3B
Phillips 2B
Suarez SS

Comment: Bumping one of Phillips or Suarez up to second in the order is a possibility, but Price may decide to provide the thumpers in the middle with Votto's OBP instead. Five guys capable of 25+ HR and two capable of 20+ SB, with three more capable of 10+. The additions of Spangenberg and Liriano really help insure production in case of injury everywhere but catcher. League average to a bit better batting order, all things considered.

Rotation:
Cueto
Leake
Cingrani
DeSclafani
Iglesias

Comment: Gambles abound after Leake. Cingrani, if healthy, has proven himself dominant. DeSclafani is penciled in as the fifth starter anyway. Adding Iglesias' arm to the mix might be awesome or horrid. The Reds could always add a free agent pitcher (say, Aaron Harrang, Kyle Kendrick, or Ryan Vogelsong) with their payflex, but that's beyond my two move stipulation. Holmberg, the prospects, and Axelrod are insurance.

Bullpen:
Chapman CL
Marshall LH S/U
Diaz RH S/U
Abad LH MR
Parra LOOGY
LeCure RH MR
Contreras RH MR
Axelrod LH LR
Hoover RH MR

Comment: Not exactly a stirring 'pen. A lot depends on Marshall's health. If he's right, the 'pen becomes a relative strength. Needs bouncebacks from Parra and LeCure, possibly Hoover to become real strength it was in 2013. Anad helps as either a dominant LOOGY or a situational set-up/ middle reliever. Might also see a free agent bargain shopping here.

Bourgeois Zee
12-31-2014, 02:12 PM
Okay, last one. I promise. (For now.)

Cincinnati trades Homer Bailey for David Peralta, Cody Ross, and Allen Webster.
Why it works for Arizona:
They get an ace to pair with a surprisingly good offense (assuming everyone is healthy this season). Arizona could very well challenge for a wild card if Bailey's the ace he's paid to be. They lose very little in the deal and actually save money this year, as Ross is extremely expensive for a bench player. Peralta could start, but is most likely a fourth OFer behind Yasmani Tomas, AJ Pollock, and Mark Trumbo. J. Lamb, the D-Back MiPOY will play 3B, I'm assuming.) They have Ender Inciarte for that. What they don't have is a pitcher like Homer Bailey.

Why it works for Cincinnati:
One big loss for three holes filled. Webster is a decent stop-gap starter with the upside to be more than that. His minor league numbers are very good; so far, however, his major league numbers haven't translated. He can throw mid 90s, so, if starting doesn't work out, there's always the pen as a backup option. For this year, he'd be a BOR guy behind Cueto, Cingrani, and Leake. Not a bad gamble, but not Bailey.

Peralta came out of nowhere to start half the D-Back games in the OF and put up good numbers. He can play all three OF spots and has enough speed to leg out nine triples in 350 ABs. He's likely a plus LFer who could put up somewhere between a 750 and 800 OPS. The advantage here is that he absolutely kills righties, to the tune of an 848 OPS and a line of .312 / .342/ .506.

The other half of that possible platoon would be Cody Ross. He has all the veteranny loveability Jocketty craves and has actually been a trade target in the past. As Peralta destroys RH, Ross destroys southpaws. He's probably limited to the corner OF spots at this point in his career, but that 916 career OPS (.294/ .360/ .557) would look awfully good patrolling LF in tandem with Peralta. Between the two of them, they could very well go .300/ .350/ .500 in LF. That's nearly Votto-esque production.

This also has the side benefit of allowing the Reds to sign Cueto to a LTC, slotting his salary in Bailey's spot with Ross' salary coming off the books for a $1 million buyout after this season if he doesn't work out.

dMaus14
01-01-2015, 05:00 PM
Are you trying to compete this year or in the future? Honest question

Bourgeois Zee
01-01-2015, 11:22 PM
Both.

RedsRocker
01-02-2015, 02:24 PM
Betts is not a SS. He doesn't have the arm to play it.

dMaus14
01-02-2015, 11:03 PM
1. Trade Johnny Cueto, Manny Parra and Daniel Corcinco to Boston for Xander Bogaerts, Daniel Nava, Matt Barnes and Anthony Ranaudo

Boston gets an ace, a Loogy, and prospect who could be relief pitcher and spot start.

Cincinnati gets a more offensive SS (could be a middle of order hitter in a year or two), switch hitting high OBP OF, two arms that could be middle of the rotation arms.

2. Trade Aroldis Chapman and Jon Mascot to Toronto for Daniel Norris, Dawel Lugo and Matthew Smoral

Toronto gets its closer and a minor prospect arm.

Cincinnati gets a good MIF prospect; an arm that is ready to be in the rotation and a high ceiling arm in Smoral

Hamilton - CF
Votto - 1B
Frazier - 3B
Mesoraco - C
Bruce - RF
Byrd - LF
Phillips - 2B
Bogaerts - SS

Bench: Nava, Suarez, Schumaker, Pena

Rotation:
Bailey
Leake
Options: Norris, Cingrani, Barnes, Ranaudo, DeSclafani

Bourgeois Zee
01-03-2015, 06:26 PM
From Scouting Book:


A plucky infielder usually slotted at second base despite having enough arm to stick at shortstop, Markus Lynn (Mookie) Betts is a quality ballplayer with the sort of pluck and grit that the Boston clubhouse could surely use.

He has the arm to play there, he just didn't have the consistency. Since his bat was so good (and the Sox had Bogaerts one level ahead and Devin Marrero on the draft board), he was moved to second base. He has the defensive chops to be considered there, at least. (If that won't work, you could always move Hamilton to SS and Betts to CF. However, that weakens two spots instead of one.)

Bourgeois Zee
01-03-2015, 06:30 PM
I find it odd that Bogaerts still has enough prospect heft to be the central figure in a deal for one of the three or four best pitchers in baseball. He really struggled with the glove and the bat last year.

Zack Cozart was a better overall player. None of the other players are more than average joes.

Is the reasoning behind your proposed deal that Cueto only has one year left on his contract or that the Reds need the extra cash?

RochesterMike
01-06-2015, 12:13 PM
Two moves....hmmmm. Not that I want to move Cueto, but....

Cueto & Phillips to NYY
Pinieda & Chris Young to Reds

Reds sign Zobrist and some bullpen help.

Hamilton CF
Zobrist 2B
Votto 1B
Mesoraco C
Frazier 3B
Bruce RF
Byrd/Young LF
Cozart/Suarez SS

Thoughts?

dMaus14
01-07-2015, 02:45 PM
Pineda is too much of a wild card, Chris Young isn't worth it.

Zobrist isn't a FA.

I would have no problem getting garbage back for BP's contract but I am no going diminish Cueto's value by putting him with BP.

RochesterMike
01-07-2015, 04:18 PM
I get it with Pinieda....but you would at least get a pitcher back with potential to be a top tier NL starter for Cueto....who some people here think we should let ride out his contract. If you were going to trade Cueto, who would your target?

RochesterMike
01-07-2015, 04:21 PM
Zobrist can be had for a top ten and a second tier prospect (from what I've read)

If you could move BP and a couple prospects to get Zobrist and enough money left over to help other areas, would you do it?

Bourgeois Zee
01-08-2015, 12:24 PM
I'd target:

Boston's MI/CF Mookie Betts
LA's SS Corey Seager
Chicago's OF Jorge Soler AND SS Addison Russell (as a package)
Chicago's 3B/ OF Kris Bryant

dMaus14
01-08-2015, 01:16 PM
I know who I would want in a package for Cueto but I don't know who is worth what to individual organizations. If I was Walt though, I would go after MLB ready prospects and not high potential A/AA prospects. If that means I bring back less bodies or have to add to Cueto then so be it. This organization needs more MIF and we should continue to stockpile arms. So instead of trying to sign FA we can trade from wealth.

Mike Honcho
01-08-2015, 04:16 PM
I'd target:

Boston's MI/CF Mookie Betts
LA's SS Corey Seager
Chicago's OF Jorge Soler AND SS Addison Russell (as a package)
Chicago's 3B/ OF Kris Bryant

what team wouldn't want a top ten in the game prospect or two? those guys are less than available, they're untouchable IMO.

ac084c
01-08-2015, 04:22 PM
what team wouldn't want a top ten in the game prospect or two? those guys are less than available, they're untouchable IMO.

And even if they're not... they're not touchable for 1 pitcher with 1 year left on his contract, regardless of if he's Cy Young incarnate.

Bourgeois Zee
01-08-2015, 09:59 PM
We can agree to disagree, then.

I see guys like 2012 top ten prospects Trevor Bauer and Jesus Montero dealt for Choo (or DiDi Gergorius) and Michael Pineda and think it can certainly be done for one of the two or three best pitchers in the game on a super cheap contract for one year.

Perhaps I'm wrong.

dMaus14
01-08-2015, 10:19 PM
Arizona was soured on Bauer because he would not change his training and long toss habits.

Pineda had one good year and the Mariners needed hitting bad.

Didi was one of our top prospects but not a top 10 prospect.

Its all about what you need and what they need.

vottofan4life
01-08-2015, 10:53 PM
Red Sox get: Sean Marshall
Reds get: Victorino (4th outfielder)

Mets get: Zack Cozart (takes over shortstop), Wellington Castillo (new backup catcher in new york)
Reds get: Jon Niese (need lefty starter), Jerry Blevins (need lefty reliever)
Cubs get: Bartolo Colon (fits in rotation), Tyler Clippard (new closer)
Nationals get: Luis Valbuena (complementary batter for all positions), Donald Lutz (can fill in for Werth while injured and play some 1st)

JMO
01-09-2015, 01:48 PM
So if this scenario played out:

Cueto, Bailey, Leake, Neise, DeSclafani

Chapman, Jumbo, Blevins, LeCure, Hoover, Parra, Cingrani

Hamilton, Votto, Frazier, Mesoraco, Bruce, Byrd, Phillips, Saurez

Pena, Negron, Victorino, Skip and Bourgeois/Lutz/Satin/Boesch

Negron would be the back up SS.

Iglesias in AAA to start the year