4/15/15 - Reds @ Baby Bears

[Tom Servo]

Hamilton 8
Votto 3
Frazier 5
Phillips 4
Byrd 7
Bruce 9
Pena 2
Cozart 6
Marquis RHP

[Kc61]

Travis Wood, being a lefty, the Reds hit Bruce sixth and righties Phillips and Byrd fourth and fifth.

I'm not surprised BP has hit well so far at cleanup. He rises to the occasion in this type of situation. Years ago they decided he should hit lead-off and he got hot. Cooled down thereafter.

Don't be shocked if BP continues to hit cleanup when Mes comes back. For awhile. Fine with me, I don't think it makes a huge difference in this case, and Mes may like hitting a bit lower down.

[SlimJim11]

BP might have 'heated up' but a lot of it has been bloop type hits. Still 0 extra base hits on the season. It is nice to see him getting more hits but there is still no way he's a cleanup hitter or anywhere above 6. Still only a .623 OPS.


Of course that is with Rocco back. Can't really say he deserves to hit any lower than Byrd, and for whatever reason they don't want to move Bruce up. I don't really have an issue with BP 4th with Rocco out since they seem to refuse to bat Bruce there, but man does it make the lineup look weak.

[Kilgore_Trout]

Not sure about "bloop type hits." I've seen a lot of line drives, and not all of them have fallen. BP's seeing the ball well right now.

That said, I'm not a huge fan of BP cleaning up. He's hitting well, sure, but I doubt there are many pitchers that feel intimidated or challenged with him in the batters box. Hopefully Rocco will have earned his way back in the 4 spot before May.

[RedTeamGo!]

If you have a drink

Will you please put it in the air?

Reds 7
Cubs 5

Let's go.

[_Sir_Charles_]

BP might have 'heated up' but a lot of it has been bloop type hits. Still 0 extra base hits on the season. It is nice to see him getting more hits but there is still no way he's a cleanup hitter or anywhere above 6. Still only a .623 OPS.


Of course that is with Rocco back. Can't really say he deserves to hit any lower than Byrd, and for whatever reason they don't want to move Bruce up. I don't really have an issue with BP 4th with Rocco out since they seem to refuse to bat Bruce there, but man does it make the lineup look weak.

I don't care for Phillips in that slot either, but he's scalded some balls too. Got robbed of several as well. Regardless of where he's hitting...he's swinging a solid bat right now. I'm not going to complain.

[RBA]

13-0 Reds

[SweetLou1990]

As long as BP is hitting, 4th is great

[Ironman92]

BP might have 'heated up' but a lot of it has been bloop type hits. Still 0 extra base hits on the season. It is nice to see him getting more hits but there is still no way he's a cleanup hitter or anywhere above 6. Still only a .623 OPS.


Of course that is with Rocco back. Can't really say he deserves to hit any lower than Byrd, and for whatever reason they don't want to move Bruce up. I don't really have an issue with BP 4th with Rocco out since they seem to refuse to bat Bruce there, but man does it make the lineup look weak.

He was robbed of a couple hits on Opening Day....he has hit several balls hard. He's doing fine for now and complaining is silly especially while Meso was struggling.

I don't like him batting there either and feel he'll struggle against the better teams but complaining now is a bit silly..

[Chuckie]

I would have to check the stats to verify, but I believe BP has historically batted best in the leadoff spot. Course, there's no way he'll be doing that again with Billy around.

[Mitri]

13-0 Reds

Marquis tonight. 13-9.

[RedsBrick]

8919

My view at my first game at Wrigley. Go Reds!

- - - Updated - - -

Haha! Already seeing sideways!

[Kingspoint]

Try to win another series and see how long the good times last.

[Kingspoint]

I would have to check the stats to verify, but I believe BP has historically batted best in the leadoff spot. Course, there's no way he'll be doing that again with Billy around.

Historically, he's never been 33.8 years old before.

[RBA]

For a team going to the world series, the Cubs fans aren't showing up.

[Chuckie]

Congrats Billy, that was as dumb of a play as you'll ever see. Bunting with two strikes? WTH?

[wheels]

I don't like this pitching matchup at all.

Hopefully Marquis didn't use up his pixie dust last time out.

[RBA]

Was that's Billy's decision? Bench him if it was.

[Ironman92]

Terrible terrible terrible my Hamilton

[Chuckie]

I've said it for quite some time: The overall baseball IQ of this team is extremely low. Votto is the outlier.

[Chuckie]

I don't like this pitching matchup at all.

Hopefully Marquis didn't use up his pixie dust last time out.

You going for that reverse psychology like me last night? I said "I don't like this pitching matchup" early in the game last night (Disco v Arrieta). Whoops.

Let's hope a trend continues here.

"I don't like this pitching matchup" might become a staple in game threads if so.

[DGullett35]

Maybe Gregg should start throwing some BP. That would have to give everyone alot of confidence coming into the game.

[Chuckie]

Welp, not off to a good start. Double for Fowler.

[tomnuetten]

I have a bad feeling for this game.. at some point marquis will play the way most expect...

[757690]

Wind blowing in. So I predict Marquis only gives up 5 runs.

[Chuckie]

2-0 Cubs. This is gonna be a long night.

[RedsManRick]

Jason Marquis, ladies and gentlemen.

[SweetLou1990]

I'll take the over

[757690]

I want to see a Gregg Vs. Marquis game. It would be better then any HR derby.

[Chuckie]

Iglesias will replace Marquis in the rotation eventually. But right now, this sucks.

[NC Reds]

Premature maybe, but I'm ready to send Marquis and Gregg back to the scrap yard.

[Reds Freak]

I've said it for quite some time: The overall baseball IQ of this team is extremely low. Votto is the outlier.

I think this is what happens when you watch one team for all 162 games during a season. If you watched every Cardinals game this year, I'm sure you'd see a lot of dumb things.

[tomnuetten]

gonna be a loooooooooong night...

[Chuckie]

Cueto, Bailey, Leake, Disco and Iggy is actually a pretty damn good rotation. We've just got to get Jason Marquis the hell outta Dodge.

[757690]

Iglesias will replace Marquis in the rotation eventually. But right now, this sucks.

I'm guessing Lorenzon is ready before Iglesias.

[Chuckie]

I think this is what happens when you watch one team for all 162 games during a season. If you watched every Cardinals game this year, I'm sure you'd see a lot of dumb things.

No, you would never see a Cardinals hitter try to bunt for a base hit with two strikes. That's about as mindless as it comes.

[SweetLou1990]

So Marquis needs to give up a few runs to find a release point that works?

[bobbitt15]

Iglesias will replace Marquis in the rotation eventually. But right now, this sucks.

His first start was technically better than Iglesias'. It hasn't been that painful

[Chuckie]

I'm guessing Lorenzon is ready before Iglesias.

Iggy looked really good in his first start. I'd be fine with either of them. And whoever doesn't replace Marquis in the rotation would go to the bullpen where help is certainly needed.

[wheels]

Thom's "Marquis needs to get bombed before he settles down" narrative is getting tiresome already.

[Chuckie]

Coghlan easily thrown out stealing by Pena. 2-0 headed to the second.

[tomnuetten]

first pitch ground out...

[Cedric]

I'm absolutely sure this organization is ran by stone age baseball guys when Jason Marquis and Kevin Gregg types make the 25 man roster. That's inexcusable, lazy, whatever adjective you want.

[wheels]

Wood looks like Tom Glavine tonight.

Two runs might be all he needs.

[SweetLou1990]

Wow, Jay working the count

[Chuckie]

It's not easy to walk Starlin Castro. But Jason Marquis can pull it off.

[NC Reds]

Boy I can't wait to see 140 more innings of this in 2015.

[Reds Freak]

No, you would never see a Cardinals hitter try to bunt for a base hit with two strikes. That's about as mindless as it comes.

Oh. You completely ignored my point. Watch as much Cardinals games as you do Reds and I'm sure you'll see some boneheaded stuff.

[Tom Servo]

So who's ready for Pedro Villarreal?

[757690]

I'm absolutely sure this organization is ran by stone age baseball guys when Jason Marquis and Kevin Gregg types make the 25 man roster. That's inexcusable, lazy, whatever adjective you want.

That's an insult to Stone Age baseball guys. Even Dick Wagner and Vern Rapp could see that Marquis and Gregg are terrible mlb pitchers.

[RedsfaninMT]

I want to see a Gregg Vs. Marquis game. It would be better then any HR derby.

No, it WOULD be HR derby.

[Tom Servo]

Shaun Marcum (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/marcush01.shtml) is available, btw.

[KronoRed]

Is it just me or have an inordinate amount of the runs the Reds have given up this year been 2 run home runs?

[Larry Schuler]

I predict the Reds get blown out and Gregg pitches a perfect 8th.

[tomnuetten]

No, it WOULD be HR derby.

the problem is that both guys miss the strike zone to much... that is annoying for a hr derby

[dsmith421]

Ineligible as he was never mediocre for St. Louis, Tom.

[SweetLou1990]

I predict the Reds get blown out and Gregg pitches a perfect 8th.

Not sure that's possible

[durl]

The fill-in blue man group member batting.

[Tom Servo]

How do we knows that's really Soler under that mask?

[NC Reds]

I'm flying in from NC for the Cubs series April 24-26. I just did the math and realized I won't be missing Marquis that series. :thumbdown:

[durl]

That's one way to not give up a grand slam.

[Chuckie]

Marquis is embarrassingly bad.

[SweetLou1990]

Weather has 48 degrees in Chicago.

Great, hit the one guy that has looked lost and has limited vision

[KronoRed]

That's one way to avoid a grand slam.

[Chuckie]

I'm flying in from NC for the Cubs series April 24-26. I just did the math and realized I won't be missing Marquis that series. :thumbdown:

There's always hope he'll be released by then.


Villarreal warming up. Oh boy.

[Kingspoint]

Maybe Marquis can get an .067 hitter out?

[Kc61]

Marquis is embarrassingly bad.

Marquis had a better game last time.

But he's probably paid very, very little which is the main point.

[RedsManRick]

Ooh. Looks like Price has some gasoline warming up to join this dumpster fire.

[SweetLou1990]

This is the best outing possible for Iglasius to stay in the rotation.

[tomnuetten]

he couldn´t find the strike zone in his last 6+ pitches

[durl]

He needs to "un"intentionally walk everyone till another pitcher is ready. Better than giving up hits.

[Chuckie]

3-0 headed to the third.

(Sorry, meant 4-0.)

[Ironman92]

That's one way to avoid a grand slam.

Was afraid he was going to go Andre Dawson on him.

Anyone have that video where he got hit in the head...laid there a minute and then got up and chased the pitcher lol

[Cedric]

There's always hope he'll be released by then.


Villarreal warming up. Oh boy.

Are you serious? Marquis is not going anywhere soon. This is a cushy, low pressure pre-retirement gig for Walt. Nothing drastic ever going to happen.

[tomnuetten]

3-0 headed to the third.

4-0

[kaldaniels]

It always seems to have to come to this before an "organizational meeting" is called.

[Tom Servo]

Dylan Axelrod today in Louisville threw 7 innings and gave up 3 hits, 1 walk, and 1 earned run with 4 strikeouts.


He got to throw 4 innings in spring training compared to Marquis' 31.

[757690]

The silver lining, is that I can now plan to miss every fifth Reds game.

[Cedric]

It always seems to have to come to this before an "organizational meeting" is called.

Why does every roster move seem like life or death for this man? It's incredibly confusing.

[Larkin Fan]

This just in. Marquis still sucks.

[Cedric]

Dylan Axelrod today in Louisville threw 7 innings and gave up 3 hits, 1 walk, and 1 earned run with 4 strikeouts.


He got to throw 4 innings in spring training compared to Marquis' 31.

They were predetermined to what happened with this 25 man roster. This franchise struggles to adapt or show flexibility to anything. It's maddening to me.

[Kc61]

Dylan Axelrod today in Louisville threw 7 innings and gave up 3 hits, 1 walk, and 1 earned run with 4 strikeouts.


He got to throw 4 innings in spring training compared to Marquis' 31.

Do you advocate Dylan Axelrod being in the Reds' rotation? Yes? No?

[jredmo2]

Grasping for a silver lining: at least our washed-up loser pitchers are flaming out immediately, and utterly.

[Chuckie]

Typical Cozart. Even when he hits one well, he doesn't have enough power to make it count. Tonight it's hard to hit HRs, but that should have been at least a double for anyone with decent pop. When is Negron going to get his chance?

[Chuckie]

They were predetermined to what happened with this 25 man roster. This franchise struggles to adapt or show flexibility to anything. It's maddening to me.

Precisely. They knew they were going to keep Marquis and Gregg when spring training began. Makes absolutely no sense.

[tomnuetten]

bye guys, I´m to tired to watch this game to the end. I don´t have any hope anyway. Get them next time...

[Kingspoint]

This is fun. There should actually be something to watch with the top of the Reds lineup next inning.

[kaldaniels]

Do you advocate Dylan Axelrod being in the Reds' rotation? Yes? No?

Pointed question, but.....I don't expect each person on here to agree on (or even have a plan on) what exactly should be done with the 5th spot.

But I do expect everyone to agree that Marquis is not the answer. I get it that the front office or Price believed he could do the job, but he can't. Recognize that immediately and pull the plug.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Btw, I elected to NOT listen to tonights game. The two guys that went north with the club that I was against since day 1 were Gregg and Marquis. Marquis has been surprisingly not horrible, but I'm sure it's only a matter of time.

All of that being said...I still need my baseball fix. So I'm watching game 4 of the 1976 world series. Yankees up 1-0 in the bottom of the 3rd with the bases loaded. IIRC, the 4th inning gets kinda fun.

Great seeing that chicken wing again...and Davey flashing that leather. Mercy, what a team. :O)

[RedlegJake]

Axelrod only gave up two hits(Hand gave up the third hit) and pitched extremely well for the 2nd straight start. Meanwhile they will keep handing the ball to Marquis. Why? Veteran.

[Kingspoint]

bye guys, I´m to tired to watch this game to the end. I don´t have any hope anyway. Get them next time...

I'm watching the Blackhawks vs Nashville, along with NBA basketball.

[WildcatFan]

bye guys, I´m to tired to watch this game to the end. I don´t have any hope anyway. Get them next time...

Happy German Tax Day!

[Tom Servo]

Do you advocate Dylan Axelrod being in the Reds' rotation? Yes? No?
I would prefer him in the Reds rotation to Jason Marquis, but that is not saying much. I guess what really gets my goat is that Marquis' rotation spot was billed as an "open competition" but he never actually competed with anybody.

[malcontent]

Are you serious? Marquis is not going anywhere soon. This is a cushy, low pressure pre-retirement gig for Walt. Nothing drastic ever going to happen.
Walter saw all that He had made and that it was very good, and He was pleased.

[RedlegJake]

Do you advocate Dylan Axelrod being in the Reds' rotation? Yes? No?

Over Marquis. YES. He pitched reasonably well late ast summer and has been lights out at Louisville. Easy decision.

[RedTeamGo!]

I would advocate any starting pitcher in the Reds minor league organization over Marquis.

[Kc61]

Pointed question, but.....I don't expect each person on here to agree on (or even have a plan on) what exactly should be done with the 5th spot.

But I do expect everyone to agree that Marquis is not the answer. I get it that the front office or Price believed he could do the job, but he can't. Recognize that immediately and pull the plug.

I heard Walt this off-season say the Reds were looking for some low risk pitchers to fill in open spots.

He did not mean, obviously, low risk in terms of pitching effectiveness.

He meant low-risk in terms of dollars.

The front office knew the risks fully. Marquis and Gregg were veterans with some success in their careers willing to work very cheap.

[RedTeamGo!]

Fuel on fire: Alfredo Simon is pitching a 2 hit shutout through 6 vs the Pirates right now

[kbrake]

This is just another reason a game like Monday night is so frustrating. Blow leads of 3-0 and 6-3. Win that game and I don't think anyone is nearly as bent out of shape about this game.

[WildcatFan]

I'd still pitch Marquis in the 8th over Gregg.

[malcontent]

Simon throwing a 2-hitter through six.

RTG beat me to it.

[kaldaniels]

Convince me why riding out the season with Lorenzen/Iglesias sharing the 5th spot (to conserve arms and to ride the hot hand) is not the answer if the Reds are to compete this year. That's pretty much where I stand.

[Tom Servo]

Fuel on fire: Alfredo Simon is pitching a 2 hit shutout through 6 vs the Pirates right now
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCcZqcPOlNM

[_Sir_Charles_]

Johnny Bench just hit a towering monster shot off the foul pole to put the BRM up 3-1 in the 4th.

Seriously guys, this is a much better game to watch. :)

[Kc61]

Over Marquis. YES. He pitched reasonably well late ast summer and has been lights out at Louisville. Easy decision.

Axelrod has been mostly a minor leaguer. He has thrown 208 minor league games, 708 innings.

In the majors, he has thrown 53 games, 216 innings, 9-14, 5.16 ERA, 5.13 FIP.

The answer was to go out and get a good one-year stop gap starter this off-season. Pay a few dollars. That was the answer.

[NC Reds]

If Marquis were cut tomorrow, who would pick him up?

Any chance he would excel elsewhere and Reds regret the quick decision?

Cutting him is an easy way for the front office to show they are serious about contending this year (and it will never happen).

[RedlegJake]

Axelrod is a career minor leaguer. He has thrown 208 minor league games, 708 innings.

In the majors, he has thrown 53 games, 216 innings, 9-14, 5.16 ERA, 5.13 FIP.

The answer was to go out and get a good one-year stop gap starter this off-season.

Pitchers turn corners - Axelrod reminds me of a younger Marquis - that is a guy who could be league average. I'm looking at last year and so far this year. I really don't care what he did before that. Cheaper than Marquis - and likely to give you just as good result

[RedTeamGo!]

Meanwhile as everyone is piling on Marquis, the Reds offense is getting no-hit by Travis Wood.

Oh wait, sorry, darn you Jason Marquis!! ::shakes fist::

[Tom Servo]

The answer was to go out and get a good one-year stop gap starter this off-season. Pay a few dollars. That was the answer.
Agreed, but that ship has passed. But when it comes to Marquis vs. Door #2, I'll take Door #2.

[RedlegJake]

If it were me, Marquis and Gregg would be gone and Iglesias and Lorenzen would be here. Axelrod would come up for emergency starts

[Tom Servo]

Meanwhile as everyone is piling on Marquis, the Reds offense is getting no-hit by Travis Wood.

Oh wait, sorry, darn you Jason Marquis!! ::shakes fist::
Not anymore. But Marquis is still terrible, so...

[Kc61]

Pitchers turn corners - Axelrod reminds me of a younger Marquis - that is a guy who could be league average. I'm looking at last year and so far this year. I really don't care what he did before that. Cheaper than Marquis - and likely to give you just as good result

Last year? Dylan pitched in the majors briefly. Nice 2.95 ERA. Not so nice 5.15 FIP.

Small, anecdotal sample, which doesn't hold up when you look more closely.

No substitute for devoting a few dollars to a man who will start ballgames every fifth day. Important spot.

Some of us said it all winter, at several positions. Wasn't the plan.

[RedlegJake]

Given that Marquis is terrible I still think any team gets their brains beat out once every 10-12 games. I remain more worried bout the bullpen blowing leads late than I am the 5th starter.

[Kingspoint]

Hey, we got a hit!

[RedTeamGo!]

Not anymore. But Marquis is still terrible, so...

Had to try the jinx. I'm not defending Marquis. The point was, while Marquis has sucked tonight, the offense has been equally as bad.

[RedlegJake]

Last year? Dylan pitched in the majors briefly. Nice 2.95 ERA. Not so nice 5.15 FIP.

Small, anecdotal sample, which doesn't hold up when you look more closely.

No substitute for devoting a few dollars to a man who will start ballgames every fifth day. Important spot.

Some of us said it all winter at several positions.

I'm not arguing they should not have gone out and gotten someone better, I'm just saying with what they have now that they blew that decision, I'd take Axelrod over Marquis

[Tom Servo]

Last year? Dylan pitched in the majors briefly. Nice 2.95 ERA. Not so nice 5.15 FIP.

Small, anecdotal sample, which doesn't hold up when you look more closely.

No substitute for devoting a few dollars to a man who will start ballgames every fifth day. Important spot.

Some of us said it all winter.
He made 3 starts.

8/17 @ Colorado - 6 innings, 7 hits, 1 BB, 7 K, 2 ER
8/28 vs Chicago - 5 innings, 2 hits, 3 BB, 8 K, 0 ER
9/3 @ Baltimore - 6 innings, 5 hits, 0 BB, 4 K, 4 ER

HR ball hurt him, but he was alright.

[757690]

So where is Marquis biggest fan Josh B these days? You'd think he'd be blowing up this game thread.

[malcontent]

The answer was to go out and get a good one-year stop gap starter this off-season. Pay a few dollars. That was the answer.
Or possibly not to have created a hole in the rotation in the first place.

Not referring to the Latos trade, of course.

[Red Raindog]

meanwhile - Votto butchers an easy bouncer

[Red Raindog]

and the bags are blue

[jredmo2]

The thing that's really frustrating is that the Reds are spending a combined $7 million on Byrd, Gregg, and Marquis. Cubs are paying Fowler $9.5 million this year. We couldn't afford to trade for Fowler? Couldn't make up that $2.5 mil? What is Jocketty thinking?

[757690]

Crazy thing is that Marquis has swing and miss stuff. I can see why Price liked him in spring training. His off speed stuff has a ton of movement. He just can't control it enough to avoid throwing fastballs for strikes. To be fair, if Marquis can control his off speed stuff, he could be a decent 5th starter.

[durl]

Weird to sense that the Cubs are absolutely certain that they're going to win this one easily.

[Ironman92]

Typical Cozart. Even when he hits one well, he doesn't have enough power to make it count. Tonight it's hard to hit HRs, but that should have been at least a double for anyone with decent pop. When is Negron going to get his chance?

Lacks grit.

[_Sir_Charles_]

5-0 Cubs. Anybody want to put money on it that now that Price is in a game where there may be a need for a "mop up" guy....Gregg DOESN'T pitch?

[RedTeamGo!]

The thing that's really frustrating is that the Reds are spending a combined $7 million on Byrd, Gregg, and Marquis. Cubs are paying Fowler $9.5 million this year. We couldn't afford to trade for Fowler? Couldn't make up that $2.5 mil? What is Jocketty thinking?

At this point of the season Jocketty is not really "thinking," he is mid slumber, so he is dreaming.

[durl]

So is Walt biding his time, willing to take the losses, waiting for AAA guys to be ready?

[_Sir_Charles_]

If it were me, Marquis and Gregg would be gone and Iglesias and Lorenzen would be here. Axelrod would come up for emergency starts

I'd take Moscot over Axelrod...but otherwise I agree.

[Kingspoint]

Marquis has now reached the pitch limit (runs given up apparently has no effect on when to take him out).

[Kc61]

The thing that's really frustrating is that the Reds are spending a combined $7 million on Byrd, Gregg, and Marquis. Cubs are paying Fowler $9.5 million this year. We couldn't afford to trade for Fowler? Couldn't make up that $2.5 mil? What is Jocketty thinking?

jredmo2, the decision to trade for Byrd over Fowler has been a frustration for me. Not because Byrd is a bad player, he's pretty good, still.

But Fowler fit the needs of this ball club. Imagine Hamilton, Fowler, and Votto leading off the game. The OBP would be higher, the opportunities more plentiful.

I agree. And there were other ways to make up the payroll difference. Or just pay a little more to have a good year.

[durl]

If Price were managing the Cubs, he'd yank Wood and his 1-hit shutout next inning.

[RedlegJake]

So is Walt biding his time, willing to take the losses, waiting for AAA guys to be ready?

I think in a way - yes. He is grooming them for later this summer or next year to fill Cueto and possibly Leake's shoes. If they were truly putting the best 12 pitchers on the roster Lorenzen and Iglesias would both be here, even if in bullpen roles. I also think he may be afraid of getting them locked into bullpen roles and not being able to put them in the rotation later on.

[Tom Servo]

This is Travis Wood's ultimate revenge.

[RedlegJake]

I'd take Moscot over Axelrod...but otherwise I agree.

Another guy they are biding time on. Add him to the 12 best list too.

[Red Raindog]

Weird to sense that the Cubs are absolutely certain that they're going to win this one easily.

it appears the Reds agree - time to change their minds though

[Kc61]

I think in a way - yes. He is grooming them for later this summer or next year to fill Cueto and possibly Leake's shoes. If they were truly putting the best 12 pitchers on the roster Lorenzen and Iglesias would both be here, even if in bullpen roles. I also think he may be afraid of getting them locked into bullpen roles and not being able to put them in the rotation later on.

The Reds' position, IMO, is they are "taking a shot" on this year. Maybe we get lucky and it works, we have some good players.

But the main goal is to prepare for a younger, cheaper, and hopefully better team in a couple of years.

[Red Raindog]

jredmo2, the decision to trade for Byrd over Fowler has been a frustration for me. Not because Byrd is a bad player, he's pretty good, still.

But Fowler fit the needs of this ball club. Imagine Hamilton, Fowler, and Votto leading off the game. The OBP would be higher, the opportunities more plentiful.

I agree. And there were other ways to make up the payroll difference. Or just pay a little more to have a good year.

and the Reds would still have Lively

[SweetLou1990]

If Marquis were cut tomorrow, who would pick him up?

Any chance he would excel elsewhere and Reds regret the quick decision?

Cutting him is an easy way for the front office to show they are serious about contending this year (and it will never happen).

I'll check to see if the local high school team has a roster spot

[Kc61]

and the Reds would still have Lively

They would have been required to trade for Fowler, so somebody would have gone to the Astros. I believe Fowler was a trade, not a FA.

But the point is the Reds wanted OBP and traded for power. They went for Byrd who happened to cost them only $4 million this season.

Virtually the whole off-season was about cutting payroll and preparing for the future IMO.

Which is ok, but IMO they are now half in and half out. Never a great situation.

Maybe they will catch fire and make it interesting, overall they have played all right and the one-run games are going better.

[Cedric]

The Reds' position, IMO, is they are "taking a shot" on this year. Maybe we get lucky and it works, we have some good players.

But the main goal is to prepare for a younger, cheaper, and hopefully better team in a couple of years.

When Cueto is gone and the draft pick we get for him is taken on a high school pitcher?

There isn't some master plan going on here. The team is trying to rebuild on the fly and I don't even think they know how it's going to happen. I don't trust Walt Jocketty in any kind of rebuilding plan. He walked into a perfect situation here, IMO.

[SweetLou1990]

Yeah, towel has been thrown. Can we at least Negron in the game?

[Red Raindog]

They would have been required to trade for Fowler, so somebody would have gone to the Astros. I believe Fowler was a trade, not a FA.

But the point is the Reds wanted OBP and traded for power. They went for Byrd who happened to cost them only $4 million this season.

Virtually the whole off-season was about cutting payroll and preparing for the future IMO.

Which is ok, but IMO they are now half in and half out. Never a great situation.

Maybe they will catch fire and make it interesting, overall they have played all right and the one-run games are going better.

missed he was a trade I guess

[757690]

jredmo2, the decision to trade for Byrd over Fowler has been a frustration for me. Not because Byrd is a bad player, he's pretty good, still.

But Fowler fit the needs of this ball club. Imagine Hamilton, Fowler, and Votto leading off the game. The OBP would be higher, the opportunities more plentiful.

I agree. And there were other ways to make up the payroll difference. Or just pay a little more to have a good year.

The Astros wanted an everyday player for Fowler. The Reds couldn't afford to give one up. The Cubs could. It had very little to do with money. I am confident Walt made a solid offer for Fowler and was rejected.

[RedlegJake]

At least Dayton won today and another young arm pitched a gem. Tyler Mahle 6.2 innings 4 hits 0 runs 5Ks 1BB

[malcontent]

jredmo2, the decision to trade for Byrd over Fowler has been a frustration for me. Not because Byrd is a bad player, he's pretty good, still.

But Fowler fit the needs of this ball club. Imagine Hamilton, Fowler, and Votto leading off the game. The OBP would be higher, the opportunities more plentiful.

I agree. And there were other ways to make up the payroll difference. Or just pay a little more to have a good year.
Trading for Choo was an aberration from the Jocketty plan, where OBP is an afterthought.

[SweetLou1990]

I don't believe in the win tomorrow at the expense of today bull anymore. The Reds can maintain a decent core group with their typically solid D, who knows? I do know that we got a TOR stud for this year only garaunteed. So no more Gregg or marquis. And call up pitchers that can help us win. It sounds simple, they have all offseason to worry about the 2016 roster.

[malcontent]

Schumaker sent up to fan against the LH Wood. At least we should have enough relievers to finish out the game.

[jredmo2]

They would have been required to trade for Fowler, so somebody would have gone to the Astros. I believe Fowler was a trade, not a FA.

But the point is the Reds wanted OBP and traded for power. They went for Byrd who happened to cost them only $4 million this season.

Virtually the whole off-season was about cutting payroll and preparing for the future IMO.

Which is ok, but IMO they are now half in and half out. Never a great situation.

Maybe they will catch fire and make it interesting, overall they have played all right and the one-run games are going better.

Fowler was a trade. IIRC the Cubs didn't give up very much for him, though, and the Reds definitely could have nabbed him. My thought at the time was that difference between Byrd's $4m and Fowler's arb-eligible $8m was the difference. Which, fair enough. ~$5m is substantial. But if that was the case why dump $3m on Gregg and Marquis, who are essentially replacement-level at this point. Might as well have gone with Holmberg in that role if that was the plan.

[powersackers]

I'm just glad the offense and starting pitching both stink on the same night. Not wasting a good start, not wasting a solid offense performance, the bullpen can't blow a lead and Chappy gets the day off

[757690]

Fowler was a trade. IIRC the Cubs didn't give up very much for him, though, and the Reds definitely could have nabbed him. My thought at the time was that difference between Byrd's $4m and Fowler's arb-eligible $8m was the difference. Which, fair enough. ~$5m is substantial. But if that was the case why dump $3m on Gregg and Marquis, who are essentially replacement-level at this point. Might as well have gone with Holmberg in that role if that was the plan.

Cubs gave up their starting 3B, Valbuena, who was above average last year, for Fowler. Reds just didn't have anyone like that to trade.

[jredmo2]

The Astros wanted an everyday player for Fowler. The Reds couldn't afford to give one up. The Cubs could. It had very little to do with money. I am confident Walt made a solid offer for Fowler and was rejected.

Do you think that was the reason? I honestly don't know. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense on the Astros' part, but they are the Astros I guess.

[malcontent]

I doubt Ausmus sends Simon out in the 9th to finish off his 2-hitter.

[Tom Servo]

See other teams do dumb things too

[RedTeamGo!]

Welp, I'm going to go watch Daredevil. Enjoy your evening.

[Red Raindog]

Badenhop out - Parra in

and brain dead infield let's it fall

[Larkin Fan]

When things are bad, things are really bad. Wow.

[Chuckie]

Full-blown Bad News Bears mode tonight.

[Red Raindog]

See other teams do dumb things too

was he out?

[Cyclone792]

You know, it would be quite ironic if the Reds bullpen pitches four scoreless innings tonight around all the comical errors the defense is committing.

[Tom Servo]

See other teams do dumb things too
n/m we're still the kings

[jredmo2]

Cubs gave up their starting 3B, Valbuena, who was above average last year, for Fowler. Reds just didn't have anyone like that to trade.

I don't get this. Valbueno was okay last year. But he's 29, and has been pretty awful for most of his career. If it was a salary dump, surely they would want a prospect over Valbuena?

[Cyclone792]

I'm just glad the offense and starting pitching both stink on the same night. Not wasting a good start, not wasting a solid offense performance, the bullpen can't blow a lead and Chappy gets the day off

It's a pretty good bet that Chapman will get regular rest through the season each night Marquis starts.

[faffy42]

Worst played game of the season tonight in this young season. Losing in all facets. Pitching, hitting and defense all subpar tonight.

[Tom Servo]

I'm pretty sure Ryan Dennick, lost today on waivers, could have done what Parra does.

[Tony Cloninger]

Convince me why riding out the season with Lorenzen/Iglesias sharing the 5th spot (to conserve arms and to ride the hot hand) is not the answer if the Reds are to compete this year. That's pretty much where I stand.

Agreed and I have been on board for one or the other.....but I will take what you said as well. Either that or don't act like you have a chance this season in order to get people to show up. These fans are hard enough to get out there when they are winning.

[cincrazy]

I'm pretty sure Ryan Dennick, lost today on waivers, could have done what Parra does.

In reference to another thread, I bet even the Immortal Rheal Cormier, at this stage of his life, could duplicate what Parra's done so far this season.

[Mutaman]

According to all the moneyball guys, Alfredo was washed up. Bad peripherals.

[Ironman92]

In honor of Jackie Robinson.....here is some VERY random trivia

The first black pitcher for the Cardinals and Reds was Brooks Lawrence (1956 Reds All-Star...went 19-10)......Brooks later went on to be the head coach for Wilmington College. He recruited me and my freshman year at Wilmington he had me throw batting practice for 2+ hours in October in 45-50 degree weather.

/Arm blown....transferred

[cincrazy]

According to all the moneyball guys, Alfredo was washed up. Bad peripherals.

Simon is a useful pitcher. And he'll have some nights like this occasionally. But expecting him to duplicate his first half of 2014 isn't a great bet. But as a 5 starter, on this Tigers team with that offense... pretty good fit for him.

[Tom Servo]

According to all the moneyball guys, Alfredo was washed up. Bad peripherals.
nice hot take

[kaldaniels]

According to all the moneyball guys, Alfredo was washed up. Bad peripherals.

I'm not a believer still. Not gonna fight tooth and nail on it. Let's see come September.

[cincrazy]

In honor of Jackie Robinson.....here is some VERY random trivia

The first black pitcher for the Cardinals and Reds was Brooks Lawrence (1956 Reds All-Star...went 19-10)......Brooks later went on to be the head coach for Wilmington College. He recruited me and my freshman year at Wilmington he had me throw batting practice for 2+ hours in October in 45-50 degree weather.

/Arm blown....transferred

I know Brooks' son, he's a substitute teacher in my hometown of Springfield Ohio! He's a wonderful man and I'm willing to bet his dad Brooks was as well.

Sorry to hear about your arm however, lol :). Those old school pitching coaches...

[Red Raindog]

In honor of Jackie Robinson.....here is some VERY random trivia

The first black pitcher for the Cardinals and Reds was Brooks Lawrence (1956 Reds All-Star...went 19-10)......Brooks later went on to be the head coach for Wilmington College. He recruited me and my freshman year at Wilmington he had me throw batting practice for 2+ hours in October in 45-50 degree weather.

/Arm blown....transferred

ouch

[jredmo2]

According to all the moneyball guys, Alfredo was washed up. Bad peripherals.

Not washed up, overvalued. Which we was/is. The Tigers gave up two of their top-10 prospects for him. And he was going to make $5m this year. That was a good trade.

[Mutaman]

But expecting him to duplicate his first half of 2014 isn't a great bet.

Depends on the odds.

[BUTLER REDSFAN]

The boys are sleepwalking tonight....Can someone tell Byrd its ok to not hit a weak grounder to shortstop every AB?

[RedlegJake]

still think the trade of Simon was a good one but it'll take more time than the Latos trade to pay off. This year will almost certainly be in the Tigers favor.

[RedlegJake]

At least it was a perfect day in the minors. 2 wins and 2 rainouts. Need good news

[Ironman92]

I know Brooks' son, he's a substitute teacher in my hometown of Springfield Ohio! He's a wonderful man and I'm willing to bet his dad Brooks was as well.

Sorry to hear about your arm however, lol :). Those old school pitching coaches...

He was old school! Elbow sagged 6 inches (yuck)......he had been in baseball forever and was pretty old. I think that was his final season with them back in 1993. Felt like I had to impress him......probably 250 pitches and I could barely get the ball there by the end.

[Mutaman]

Not washed up, overvalued. Which we was/is. The Tigers gave up two of their top-10 prospects for him. And he was going to make $5m this year. That was a good trade.

We'll see. Lots of folks swore Travis for Marshall was a good trade.

[Ironman92]

The boys are sleepwalking tonight....Can someone tell Byrd its ok to not hit a weak grounder to shortstop every AB?

Needs to go oppo

For now he's still hitting like drunj Heisey

[cincrazy]

Depends on the odds.

He was dreadful the second half of 2014. And he's been bad for most of his career, especially as a starter. I've been super critical of Walt lately, but jettisoning Simon was the right call. I would've done it even sooner if I were him, prior to the trade deadline last year.

[Tom Servo]

We'll see. Lots of folks swore Travis for Marshall was a good trade.
Really love those one game sample sizes, huh? Wood was one of the worst regular starters in baseball last year.

[BUTLER REDSFAN]

No offense tonight and our bullpen is shutting them down so far..lol...go figure

[Tony Cloninger]

We'll see. Lots of folks swore Travis for Marshall was a good trade.

It was. Wood was surplus to requirements at that time. Marshall was very good. Cannot count on him being hurt like he was.

[Tony Cloninger]

No offense tonight and our bullpen is shutting them down so far..lol...go figure

Notice a pattern. They hit on SUN and MON, pitching mainly relief blows. They pitch great. Hitting gets by with enough runs while bullpen blows. Today bullpen Good. Everything else bad.

Sounds like the prefect .500 storm. Travis Wood is not this good either. Not 2 hitter good.

[Mutaman]

Really love those one game sample sizes, huh? Wood was one of the worst regular starters in baseball last year.

Not as bad a starter as Marshall was a reliever. Who'd you rather have in your rotation, Wood or Marquis?

[Mutaman]

It was. Wood was surplus to requirements at that time. Marshall was very good. Cannot count on him being hurt like he was.

Well he's not "surplus to requirements" any more.

[RedlegJake]

Wood had no spot in the rotation. That only opened this year. And the bullpen was solid until last year - no room there either. Couldn't just keep Wood at Louisville. The trade didn't pan out because a dominant reliever got injured. You can't predict that. It was good trade at the time.

[Tom Servo]

Not as bad a starter as Marshall was a reliever. Who'd you rather have in your rotation, Wood or Marquis?
Marshall was a great reliever...when he was on the field. Lady luck interfered. It happens. Cubs didn't exactly rack up the World Series on the power of Travis Wood's arm, and we haven't been hard up for starting pitching since 2012 until this very moment of two Jason Marquis starts.

I'd really rather have neither Wood or Marquis in the rotation, thanks.

[durl]

In other "choke" news, my Predators blow a 3 goal lead and it's tied after 2. Bad sports night.

[kaldaniels]

Well he's not "surplus to requirements" any more.

Let's keep it fair here. At the time, he certainly could be considered "surplus".

But we are 3+ years out from the trade now. Can't really use the "well he wouldn't be surplus today" argument.

[Mutaman]

Really love those one game sample sizes, huh?

In 2013 Travis threw 200 innings with a .311 ERA

[Kingspoint]

Rally time!

[cincrazy]

In 2013 Travis threw 200 innings with a .311 ERA

Well what did he do last year? And in 2011? Jason Marquis is a poop smoothie and Travis Wood is a poop sandwich. I don't want either.

[durl]

Challenge the double play.

[kaldaniels]

Well what did he do last year? And in 2011? Jason Marquis is a poop smoothie and Travis Wood is a poop sandwich. I don't want either.

He's been a Cub for like 3.06 seasons. I say evaluate him on his entire Cub tenure. Seems fair.

[Mutaman]

Marshall was a great reliever...when he was on the field. Lady luck interfered. It happens. Cubs didn't exactly rack up the World Series on the power of Travis Wood's arm, and we haven't been hard up for starting pitching since 2012 until this very moment of two Jason Marquis starts.

I'd really rather have neither Wood or Marquis in the rotation, thanks.

Marshall was never a "great reliever". Marshall was a decent set up man. He was given the closer's job and couldn't handle it. Chapman is a great reliever. Marshall not so much.

[Tom Servo]

In 2013 Travis threw 200 innings with a .311 ERA
In 2013 the Reds won 90 games and had a rotation of Latos, Bailey, Arroyo, Leake, and Cueto/Cingrani.

[durl]

Aaaand 2 on with no outs and we get squat. Yippee.

[kaldaniels]

Marshall was never a "great reliever". Marshall was a decent set up man. He was given the closer's job and couldn't handle it. Chapman is a great reliever. Marshall not so much.

Over 6 WAR from 2010-2012 without a large amount of innings compared to other relievers. (Just saying his WAR isn't bulked up by IP) I know pitcher WAR isn't the most popular thing, but that is great production. Few relievers match that production.

[CarolinaRedleg]

Silver linings: This eighth inning isn't likely to get this game any more out of hand than it already is.

[Rijo's Ghost]

Marshall was never a "great reliever". Marshall was a decent set up man. He was given the closer's job and couldn't handle it. Chapman is a great reliever. Marshall not so much.

I think the only correct thing said in that post is that Chapman is a great reliever.

[Tom Servo]

Marshall was never a "great reliever". Marshall was a decent set up man. He was given the closer's job and couldn't handle it. Chapman is a great reliever. Marshall not so much.Marshall blew one save in 2012 in his brief tenure as closer. One. He appeared in 73 games, threw 61 innings, had an almost 11.0 K rate, and a +165 ERA. That is better than decent.

[cincrazy]

Marshall was never a "great reliever". Marshall was a decent set up man. He was given the closer's job and couldn't handle it. Chapman is a great reliever. Marshall not so much.

Marshall was absolutely a great reliever. If you're not an elite closer, you can't be an elite reliever? That logic is false. Marshall's peak maybe wasn't all that long, but in 2012 he was nails for us. Fate intervened. It happens. I'm not sweating losing Travis Wood and the midget hitter whose name I can't remember that everyone was in love with.

Dave Sappelt! That was his name. And he was awful.

[Tom Servo]

Good work by Villarreal, still don't think anything of him but good job soaking up a few frames.

[Mutaman]

Marshall blew one save in 2012 in his brief tenure as closer. One. He appeared in 73 games, threw 61 innings, had an almost 11.0 K rate, and a +165 ERA. That is better than decent.

Marshall was so great as a closer that he lasted until the Yankee series in June. At that point Dusty, who hated to make a change , and hated to go with a rookie over a veteran, knew he couldn't close and had to try something different.

[RedlegJake]

Dave Sappelt the Kirby Puckett who wasn't, and Ronald Torreyes. 2 midgets and an undersized lefty for Marshall. I think the Reds gave them players based on height for height. Took those 3 to stacked on top of each other to equal Marshall.

[Ironman92]

This game is really really bad. Been nice to have had a crystal ball and could've rested Votto.

The Skip vs a lefty was a special moment.

[Kc61]

Marshall was outstanding against lefties, good against righties. He did better as a set up man than closer. High caliber reliever.

Villarreal did just what they wanted, ate a couple of mop up innings. Probably will be back in Louisville soon, but not for sure.

Reds offense deceptively seems ok, but will have an OBP problem this season. Of course, given the state of offense, so will a number of other teams. They haven't scored since inning one yesterday.

[kaldaniels]

Marshall was so great as a closer that he lasted until the Yankee series in June. At that point Dusty, who hated to make a change , and hated to go with a rookie over a veteran, knew he couldn't close and had to try something different.

As an aside am I the only one who feels like Chapman has been closing for the last 5+ seasons? Hard to believe the Madson debacle was just 3 years ago.

[RedlegJake]

Don't bring up Madson. He doesn't get hurt, its him and Marshall 8th and 9th inning and Chapman becomes a starter....fate...ugh

[Tom Servo]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CChIY_GUEAAp-B8.jpg

Schlitter's full!
(credit Cold_Silos on twitte)

[The Operator]

Cubs fans make me LOL. They haven't won a World Series in 106 years and They're 28-60 against The Reds over the last five years.

You'd think they were the 1927 Yankees because of a few games.

[Mutaman]

Actually I was wrong. Marshall's stint as a closer lasted until 5/19/12 when he gave up 4 hits in 1/3 of an inning in Yankee Stadium and was replaced by Jose Arredondo. I don't think Marshall ever closed another game. Chapman became the closer the next day.

[Kc61]

He was dreadful the second half of 2014. And he's been bad for most of his career, especially as a starter. I've been super critical of Walt lately, but jettisoning Simon was the right call. I would've done it even sooner if I were him, prior to the trade deadline last year.

Simon is vastly underrated on this site. He suffers in some stats because he doesn't have a high K rate. But his low walk rate and ground ball tendencies are effective behind a good defensive infield.

The Reds would be a better team if Simon had been retained. They needed to make these trades to reduce payroll. But the Simon trade did not improve the 2015 team.

Simon suffered in the second half last year due to all the innings. He had been a reliever for a few years. This year, I don't think he'll suffer quite the decline.

Not a TOR starter, but a solid three-four man, Tigers will be helped by him.

[Ironman92]

Drunj Heisey struggling and pulls everything weakly

[kbrake]

Left the game thread on like page 9. Just got caught up. Sorry I left some good stuff haha

[durl]

Well...that stunk. Mercifully it's over. I hope to wake up to roster moves and an interim manager.

[cincrazy]

Actually I was wrong. Marshall's stint as a closer lasted until 5/19/12 when he gave up 4 hits in 1/3 of an inning in Yankee Stadium and was replaced by Jose Arredondo. I don't think Marshall ever closed another game. Chapman became the closer the next day.

Chapman wasn't a "rookie" when he took over for Marshall. He was in his third season.

[Tom Servo]

We're bad again.

Reds dropped 2 straight series.

[Tom Servo]

Left the game thread on like page 9. Just got caught up. Sorry I left some good stuff haha
We're arguing about Sean Marshall's 2012 and Alfredo Simon. I'm thinking I've had enough internet for the day.

[kbrake]

We're arguing about Sean Marshall's 2012 and Alfredo Simon. I'm thinking I've had enough internet for the day.

I was frustrated that is why I walked away for an hour or so. Came back and just found humor in all of it.

[kaldaniels]

We're arguing about Sean Marshall's 2012 and Alfredo Simon. I'm thinking I've had enough internet for the day.

There are just some names you don't drop in Redszone unless you are ready to rumble.

[Mutaman]

If you're not an elite closer, you can't be an elite reliever?

I think the criteria used was "great". Know any set up men in the HOF? "Great" set up men (ie Chapman, Mariano) become closers.

[malcontent]

The Reds would be a better team if Simon had been retained.
They would have had a chance. Jocketty cut the legs off this team with that trade, IMO. All for the 5.5 million that he subsequently dealt out to Gregg, et al.

[westofyou]

Alfredo Simon now known as "The "Linchpin"

[757690]

Wind blowing in. So I predict Marquis only gives up 5 runs.

Nailed it.

[kbrake]

The Reds would be a better team with Simon until Phillips or Cozart goes down and the Reds have some middle infield depth that they absolutely didn't have before.

The 2015 Cincinnati Reds season will not be determined by a lack of Big Pasta.

[malcontent]

Alfredo Simon now known as "The "Linchpin"
I prefer "Big Pasta", but maybe "Linchpin" will grow on me.

[757690]

Simon gave up 3 runs in 5 IP in his first game of the season. btw.

[Mutaman]

Alfredo Simon now known as "The "Linchpin"

"Reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated."
Alfredo Simon

[757690]

For the record. The Reds are 1-1 in games started by Marquis this season. I'm not sure the team would have done any better with any of the names mentioned as his replacement.

He's actually been better than I expected.

[Mutaman]

We're arguing about Sean Marshall's 2012 and Alfredo Simon. I'm thinking I've had enough internet for the day.

Beats arguing about whether Price bunts too much or whether Chapman should be used before the ninth inning. Have to argue about something and those topics have been pretty exhausted.

[ScotlandRed]

Wow not a great read at work on a Thursday morning. Offence just didn't show up and when Marquis is pitching that can't afford to happen.

Move on to tomorrow now.

FWIW I love Alfredo Simon.

[BluegrassRedleg]

There are just some names you don't drop in Redszone unless you are ready to rumble.

These days, may be easier to list the non- rumble-inducing names. ;)

[Mutaman]

Wow not a great read at work on a Thursday morning. Offence just didn't show up and when Marquis is pitching that can't afford to happen.

Move on to tomorrow now.

FWIW I love Alfredo Simon.

Some hate the English. I don't. They're just wankers. We, on the other hand, are COLONIZED by wankers. Can't even find a decent culture to be colonized BY.

[ScotlandRed]

Some hate the English. I don't. They're just wankers. We, on the other hand, are COLONIZED by wankers. Can't even find a decent culture to be colonized BY.

Impressive. A true classic.

One of the few good things to come out of Scotland.

Choose life, Choose Bryan Price.

[jordan_tm]

We can complain all we want, but mark it down, Jason Marquis will be in this rotation until at least June. And it's decisions like this one, Gregg, Parra, etc. that keep this team from being a very very good team. I used to think Dusty was the only one that cared about hurting feelings more than making decisions to improve the club. Now it looks like it's the theme of the organization. Especially based on what Price said the other day about it would hurt a guy's confidence if he pulled them out of their current bullpen roles.

One thing that I did like about LaRussa and the Cardinals; if a guy didn't perform, they moved on to the next guy until they found someone who did.