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villain612
04-18-2015, 10:35 AM
8927

Tom Servo
04-18-2015, 10:54 AM
Prediction: Reds win if Byrd and Pena actually contribute anything offensively.

texasdave
04-18-2015, 12:18 PM
Any word on when Pena will be returning to Cincy for his MRI? This is his sixth consecutive start. No man's hip can stand that kinda stress.

NebraskaRed
04-18-2015, 12:28 PM
Prediction: Reds win if Byrd and Pena actually contribute anything offensively.

Pessimistic prediction: Byrd will swing at every single high fastball.

villain612
04-18-2015, 12:37 PM
I hope Rocco is alright.

Ironman92
04-18-2015, 01:07 PM
Prediction: Reds win if Byrd and Pena actually contribute anything offensively.

I would like Pena good on defense and call a good game.

Tony Cloninger
04-18-2015, 01:11 PM
I hope Rocco is alright.

He's clearly not. This is Ludwick 2013 and Votto 2014 all over again. He either goes on the DL or he plays. Quit agonizing over it. The guy is not going to be able to catch with a bad hip.

Tom Servo
04-18-2015, 02:18 PM
George somehow turns praise for Votto into praise for the Cardinals for recognizing how good Votto is.

RedsfaninMT
04-18-2015, 02:19 PM
Nice swing there by Frazier.

Tom Servo
04-18-2015, 02:21 PM
I wonder if Chris Welsh would be interested in becoming the Reds manager. Seriously.

Kc61
04-18-2015, 02:24 PM
Let's see how Homer does.

The key to Mesoraco is that the other guys have to pick him up. A team should be able to survive one injury in the lineup.

Pena is a competent backup catcher and Barnhart a good depth call up.

But with no Mes, Reds can't continue to get below sea level hitting from guys like Byrd.

NebraskaRed
04-18-2015, 02:24 PM
I wonder if Chris Welsh would be interested in becoming the Reds manager. Seriously.

http://omgreds.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/welsh-467x500.jpg

The Operator
04-18-2015, 02:25 PM
George loves him some Redbirds.

Red Raindog
04-18-2015, 02:25 PM
lead off single against Homer -- his season is a bust --- ;)

The Operator
04-18-2015, 02:26 PM
4 - 6 - yessirree 3!

2 outs

757690
04-18-2015, 02:28 PM
I wonder if Chris Welsh would be interested in becoming the Reds manager. Seriously.

He's too smart. Broadcasting is a much better gig.

The Operator
04-18-2015, 02:29 PM
1-0 already

Sadly that might be enough.

Tom Servo
04-18-2015, 02:29 PM
https://i.imgur.com/RfZy2mi.jpg

757690
04-18-2015, 02:30 PM
George somehow turns praise for Votto into praise for the Cardinals for recognizing how good Votto is.

I like Grande. i think he's the best of the play by play TV guys by a long shot. But his Cardinal love is beyond annoying. Him doing a Cardinal broadcast is insufferable.

JaxRed
04-18-2015, 02:30 PM
Bruce should have had him. Bad throw

NebraskaRed
04-18-2015, 02:30 PM
Thank your deity of choice for that double play, otherwise that would have been a very bad inning indeed.

Tadasimha
04-18-2015, 02:32 PM
Could have been a better start for Homer but it could have been a LOT worse

Holiday must have hurt himself running the bases - he's been taken out of the game.

villain612
04-18-2015, 02:32 PM
https://i.imgur.com/RfZy2mi.jpg

Haha I was scrambling on my phone trying to beat you to this.

BUTLER REDSFAN
04-18-2015, 02:33 PM
Is it just me or do the cards score at least 1 run in the 1st inning of every game against us?

NebraskaRed
04-18-2015, 02:34 PM
Will someone please tell Byrd that it's totally okay if he doesn't swing at the first pitch every single time?

The Operator
04-18-2015, 02:34 PM
As annoying as Grande's Cardinal love can be, it seems to me that Chris Welsh always seems a little happier calling games with him instead of the know it all son of Martin Brenneman.

Maybe it's just me.

Cedric
04-18-2015, 02:35 PM
Heading for 3 page game threads in August with this cast of characters.

Tom Servo
04-18-2015, 02:35 PM
The first 20 minutes of this game enforces the feeling that the Cardinals batters go up with an approach while the Reds, besides Votto, go up thinking "duhhhhhhhhh, me swing bat".

Kc61
04-18-2015, 02:35 PM
The Reds desperately need a new look to the offense. This gang needs to be broken up. It's the same guys, the same failure to get on base, an occasional long ball.

Actually, it's getting boring watching the same futility year after year.

I know that Walt likes to emphasis pitching and defense, but what's the point of continuity when the result is futility. (I kind of like that last turn of phrase.)

BUTLER REDSFAN
04-18-2015, 02:35 PM
Could have been a better start for Homer but it could have been a LOT worse

Holiday must have hurt himself running the bases - he's been taken out of the game. thats great news...should mean we only lose 5-1 instead of 8-1

RedTeamGo!
04-18-2015, 02:37 PM
Jay Bruce last 4 games:

8928

Tadasimha
04-18-2015, 02:37 PM
thats great news...should mean we only lose 5-1 instead of 8-1

You can always just turn it off since you already know the outcome

The Operator
04-18-2015, 02:38 PM
The first 20 minutes of this game enforces the feeling that the Cardinals batters go up with an approach while the Reds, besides Votto, go up thinking "duhhhhhhhhh, me swing bat".Hey now, you don't win friends with walks - just like you don't win friends with salad!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8eOw2UrQeY

Tony Cloninger
04-18-2015, 02:38 PM
Is the book on every Cardinals pitcher to swing early and often? I forgot...the Reds DO NOT employ advanced scouts anymore. They watch DVD's after school.

Tom Servo
04-18-2015, 02:40 PM
Is the book on every Cardinals pitcher to swing early and often? I forgot...the Reds DO NOT employ advanced scouts anymore. They watch DVD's after school.
Chris Welsh pointing out that Martinez throws sliders 80% of the time with 2 strikes immediately before Frazier struck out chasing the 0-2 slider was particular egregious.

Cedric
04-18-2015, 02:41 PM
Shut up George Grande.

The Operator
04-18-2015, 02:42 PM
George espousing the greatness of the Molina family. "Yadi's definitely going to be a manager in the future..."

Whether it's a baseball team or a tattoo parlor remains to be seen.

kramer1
04-18-2015, 02:43 PM
I'm not very fond of George Grande.

As if they'd allow a person with a neck tattoo to be a manager. Stop it. Just stop.

NebraskaRed
04-18-2015, 02:44 PM
Nice inning from Homer.

The Operator
04-18-2015, 02:44 PM
1-2-3 inning for David

Tony Cloninger
04-18-2015, 02:44 PM
Does George live in St. Louis? Why else would he be allowed in the booth?

Tom Servo
04-18-2015, 02:45 PM
I actually like having George over Thom, but can they please tell him "Thank you but no thanks" when he offers to handle the games against the Cardinals?


Much better 2nd frame from Homer.

Gallen5862
04-18-2015, 02:45 PM
Any PBP? How did the Cards get their run?

Tom Servo
04-18-2015, 02:45 PM
Any PBP? How did the Cards get their run?
Holliday double, Adams single with two outs.

Tom Servo
04-18-2015, 02:47 PM
C. Trent Rosecrans ‏@ctrent
Yadier Molina bobblehead day here in St Louis #Cardinals #Reds


Well no wonder George wanted to be there.

Kc61
04-18-2015, 02:49 PM
Hamilton with another routine fly ball.

If they are trying to teach him to slap the ball around, hitting mostly grounders, it's not readily apparent.

Tom Servo
04-18-2015, 02:50 PM
Cardinals got the right idea: Just don't pitch to Votto.

NebraskaRed
04-18-2015, 02:50 PM
Votto with his second walk of the day.

villain612
04-18-2015, 02:51 PM
Votto might not get another hittable pitch all year.

50YrRedsFan
04-18-2015, 02:52 PM
Votto might not get another hittable pitch all year.

Fact

BUTLER REDSFAN
04-18-2015, 02:53 PM
That should b embarrassing to the rest of the lineup....thats the cards just telling the reds that votto is the only one we fear

Gallen5862
04-18-2015, 02:53 PM
Holliday double, Adams single with two outs.

Thanks.

Tom Servo
04-18-2015, 02:53 PM
Ugh.

kramer1
04-18-2015, 02:54 PM
Championship!

Gallen5862
04-18-2015, 02:54 PM
What happened?

kramer1
04-18-2015, 02:56 PM
What happened?

Homer flyout
Hamilton flyout
Votto walk
Frazier single
BP K

Gallen5862
04-18-2015, 02:56 PM
Thanks for the pbp.

50YrRedsFan
04-18-2015, 02:56 PM
Did you really expect the offense to change from last year? Opponents are going to pitch around Votto forever when no one else hits.

The Operator
04-18-2015, 02:59 PM
2-0

sigh

Tom Servo
04-18-2015, 03:00 PM
Ugh.

The Operator
04-18-2015, 03:00 PM
"Heyward's getting The St. Louis greeting for that one!"

He really does love him some Cardinals.

WrongVerb
04-18-2015, 03:02 PM
A curtain call for a solo home run in the 3rd inning of the 11th game of the season? Yeah, those Best Fans in Baseball really know their sport. Or something.

50YrRedsFan
04-18-2015, 03:02 PM
Too bad the Reds don't get runs for defensive play.

dubc47834
04-18-2015, 03:04 PM
Great snag by BP there

- - - Updated - - -


A curtain call for a solo home run in the 3rd inning of the 11th game of the season? Yeah, those Best Fans in Baseball really know their sport. Or something.

I imagine it was because it was Heywards first HR with the team!

villain612
04-18-2015, 03:04 PM
8929

Kc61
04-18-2015, 03:04 PM
Bruce strikes out. Maybe the knee is hurting.

C'mon Byrd, hit a fair ball.

The Operator
04-18-2015, 03:04 PM
Bruce looked awful on that K.


...And are we really doing a replay of Martinez's K of Phillips last inning to show how super awesome he is? Seriously?

RedTeamGo!
04-18-2015, 03:05 PM
Lol @ Marlon Byrd with a .289 OPS.

kramer1
04-18-2015, 03:05 PM
Jay Bruce stunk last year because he was injured, guys. Promise.

Kc61
04-18-2015, 03:06 PM
Nice try by Byrd, but Heyward a superb fielder picked it off.

I sense some hits coming for the Reds by mid-June.

Tom Servo
04-18-2015, 03:06 PM
About to throw a brick through my TV due to George Grande.

RedTeamGo!
04-18-2015, 03:06 PM
Bruce strikes out. Maybe the knee is hurting.

C'mon Byrd, hit a fair ball.

It's also possible that Jay Bruce just goes up there without much of a plan and strikes out a ton.

dubc47834
04-18-2015, 03:06 PM
That was crushed!

The Operator
04-18-2015, 03:07 PM
Heyward's parents are Dartmouth grads, for those of you who didn't know... He comes from "great stock" in the words of Georgie.

kramer1
04-18-2015, 03:07 PM
I've taken leaks further than that.

50YrRedsFan
04-18-2015, 03:08 PM
Nice try by Byrd, but Heyward a superb fielder picked it off.

I sense some hits coming for the Reds by mid-June.

Pretty optimistic premonition.

RedTeamGo!
04-18-2015, 03:08 PM
Haha. We gave up a good pitching prospect that was flying through the minors for a washed up outfielder approaching 40.

I'm not even mad. That's amazing. Actually, no, I am mad.

Kc61
04-18-2015, 03:08 PM
It's also possible that Jay Bruce just goes up there without much of a plan and strikes out a ton.

No way. Either he's hurt or it's just extreme bad luck. Remember the thread during one of Jay's slumps about how it was all bad luck?

Reds really should sit down with the Red Sox and talk about Cueto and Leake.

kramer1
04-18-2015, 03:10 PM
Professional athlete who's paid millions to play a kids sport exercises. Thanks, Jim!

cincrazy
04-18-2015, 03:10 PM
No way. Either he's hurt or it's just extreme bad luck. Remember the thread during one of Jay's slumps about how it was all bad luck?

Reds really should sit down with the Red Sox and talk about Cueto and Leake.

Hurt or just bad luck? For the past 7 years? Bruce as a hitter isn't a hard riddle to solve. Teams that know what they're doing like the Cardinals slam the door shut on him.

Kc61
04-18-2015, 03:10 PM
Haha. We gave up a good pitching prospect that was flying through the minors for a washed up outfielder approaching 40.

I'm not even mad. That's amazing. Actually, no, I am mad.

You left out the main point of the trade. Philly paying half Byrd's salary. That is what it was all about IMO.

Tom Servo
04-18-2015, 03:11 PM
Homer's not fooling the Cardinals today.

cincrazy
04-18-2015, 03:11 PM
The Cardinals are a good baseball team. The Reds are not. What do you want George Grande to do?

757690
04-18-2015, 03:11 PM
Haha. We gave up a good pitching prospect that was flying through the minors for a washed up outfielder approaching 40.

I'm not even mad. That's amazing. Actually, no, I am mad.

Lively was not a good pitching prospect. He barely was a prospect.

OnBaseMachine
04-18-2015, 03:11 PM
Fastball right down the middle to Heyward. Bruce takes a 2-1 fastball down the middle, chases strike three at his ankles. Matt Adams singles right to where Phillips should have been. Ugh.

The Operator
04-18-2015, 03:12 PM
A Dick Pole reference!

Red Raindog
04-18-2015, 03:12 PM
8929

Oh No --

8930

The Operator
04-18-2015, 03:12 PM
The Cardinals are a good baseball team. The Reds are not. What do you want George Grande to do?
You can credit the other team without putting on their jersey and wearing pom poms.

Magdal
04-18-2015, 03:13 PM
Is it just me or do the cards score at least 1 run in the 1st inning of every game against us?It's not you.

BUTLER REDSFAN
04-18-2015, 03:14 PM
We just had 6 months of an off season to do anything to improve this team...the result was trading 2/5ths of our rotation and get a 68 year old left fielder who is so slow at the plate he looks like he is swinging a telephone pole...we always hear about payroll..castellini if u cant afford to assemble a major league team then please sell it

757690
04-18-2015, 03:15 PM
The Cardinals are a good baseball team. The Reds are not. What do you want George Grande to do?

The talent difference between the two isn't that big, if it exists at all. Glad to see your enjoying the big media Kool aid.

Cursh14
04-18-2015, 03:15 PM
I hate molina so much.

RedTeamGo!
04-18-2015, 03:15 PM
You left out the main point of the trade. Philly paying half Byrd's salary. That is what it was all about IMO.

And that would be dandy, but they gave up a good prospect for a 38 year old washed up OF. If they would have traded some non-prospect in the trade it would have been fine, but they gave up someone of worth.

I would have rather not made the trade and not picked up any of Marlon Byrd's contract.

The Operator
04-18-2015, 03:15 PM
3-0

With this offense and the lurking "bullpen" I have a bad feeling that this baby's already over. Hope I'm wrong.

Tom Servo
04-18-2015, 03:16 PM
https://i.imgur.com/RfZy2mi.jpg

- - - Updated - - -


3-0

With this offense and the lurking "bullpen" I have a bad feeling that this baby's already over. Hope I'm wrong.
The beatings will continue from the Cardinals. Just gotta get away from them.

RedTeamGo!
04-18-2015, 03:16 PM
No way. Either he's hurt or it's just extreme bad luck. Remember the thread during one of Jay's slumps about how it was all bad luck?

Reds really should sit down with the Red Sox and talk about Cueto and Leake.


I can't tell if the Bruce part of this post is sarcasm or not.

50YrRedsFan
04-18-2015, 03:17 PM
3-0

With this offense and the lurking "bullpen" I have a bad feeling that this baby's already over. Hope I'm wrong.

About time to do chores.

757690
04-18-2015, 03:17 PM
Nm

Kc61
04-18-2015, 03:17 PM
Cards up 3-0, I don't blame Homer, it will take him some time. I'd pull him soon, no reason to push it.

Probably optimistic to use him this early in season, but at minimum be cautious.

Cards announcers point out the Reds' dilemma whether to keep Cueto through the All Star Break. There's no dilemma in my book, trade him while he's healthy and piling up the strikeouts. Should have happened this off-season.

NebraskaRed
04-18-2015, 03:18 PM
The Cardinals are the better team overall, I'm not sure that's in doubt. However, the Reds usually play so badly against this team, that part of it must be psychological. They have an inferiority complex (somewhat earned), but it's something they really need to deal with.

757690
04-18-2015, 03:18 PM
Cards up 3-0, I don't blame Homer, it will take him some time. I'd pull him soon, no reason to push it.

Probably optimistic to use him this early in season, but at minimum be cautious.

Cards announcers point out the Reds' dilemma whether to keep Cueto through the All Star Break. There's no dilemma in my book, trade him while he's healthy and piling up the strikeouts. Should have happened this off-season.

Season's super early. No need to even think about such things.

Beltway
04-18-2015, 03:20 PM
- - - Updated - - -


The beatings will continue from the Cardinals. Just gotta get away from them.
Yep, this team isn't as bad as it has looked against the Cardinals. I have the feeling peoples' attitudes will change during the Brewers series.

Kc61
04-18-2015, 03:20 PM
I can't tell if the Bruce part of this post is sarcasm or not.

It is saracasm. Point being that some RedsZoners will find any excuse for Bruce when he's not doing well.

Tom Servo
04-18-2015, 03:21 PM
Not fun at all fact: The Cardinals have only 3 swings and misses in 4 innings against Homer.

The Operator
04-18-2015, 03:21 PM
Cozart for cleanup!!!

3-1

50YrRedsFan
04-18-2015, 03:22 PM
Season's super early. No need to even think about such things.

It's later than you think. Unfortunately, 2015 won't be much different from 2014.

NebraskaRed
04-18-2015, 03:22 PM
Cozart's all, Eugenio Suarez who?

Tom Servo
04-18-2015, 03:22 PM
It is saracasm. Point being that some RedsZoners will find any excuse for Bruce when he's not doing well.
He was doing well from 2008-2013, didn't need any excuses. The belief in 2014 was that obviously he was going to snap back to the norm. Didn't happen. But we're only 11 games into 2015.

Kc61
04-18-2015, 03:23 PM
Season's super early. No need to even think about such things.

The failure to think usually results in bad decisions. Or the inability to see the need for decisions.

You had better hope Cueto remains healthy. Because if not the Reds will have blown an opportunity to help secure the future.

RedTeamGo!
04-18-2015, 03:23 PM
Yep, this team isn't as bad as it has looked against the Cardinals. I have the feeling peoples' attitudes will change during the Brewers series.

If only they could play one of the worst teams in the majors every series

BUTLER REDSFAN
04-18-2015, 03:23 PM
The last several years the reds had the comfort of knowing when we lost 14 of 18 to the cards that we made that up against the cubs and even that is gone now

Kc61
04-18-2015, 03:24 PM
He was doing well from 2008-2013, didn't need any excuses. The belief in 2014 was that obviously he was going to snap back to the norm. Didn't happen. But we're only 11 games into 2015.

You are forgetting Bruce's first big slump which resulted in a long RedsZone thread on how "bad luck" was the cause of his problems. There is a long history here. A history of excuses when Jay doesn't do well for a period.

Cursh14
04-18-2015, 03:24 PM
Come on Billy.

The Operator
04-18-2015, 03:24 PM
Not fun at all fact: The Cardinals have only 3 swings and misses in 4 innings against Homer.He's pitching to contact.

Cursh14
04-18-2015, 03:25 PM
He's pitching to contact.
Those words just made me shudder.

jojo
04-18-2015, 03:25 PM
The talent difference between the two isn't that big, if it exists at all. Glad to see your enjoying the big media Kool aid.

Yep, and Billy Havoc is an mvp candidate.

Red Raindog
04-18-2015, 03:26 PM
The talent difference between the two isn't that big, if it exists at all. Glad to see your enjoying the big media Kool aid.

as I see it -- the Reds have a lead-off man that doesn't get on base much - a 4 hole hitter (Mes when healthy) that is likely not ready to hit 4th -- and 5-8 hitters that don't bring anything special to the plate -- they do have a competitive and or interesting starter group plus a good closer --- which is why I predicted an under .500 record

Sadly I think gap is not small between the Whiny Birds and the Reds

Beltway
04-18-2015, 03:26 PM
If only they could play one of the worst teams in the majors every series
It's not about playing the worst team. It's about not playing the Cardinals. The Cardinals may or may not be in the heads of the Reds players, but they're definitely in the heads of Reds fans.

The Operator
04-18-2015, 03:27 PM
It's later than you think. Unfortunately, 2015 won't be much different from 2014. If this were the NFL we'd be about 3 minutes into the second game of the season.

They suck right now but it is still incredibly early.

RedTeamGo!
04-18-2015, 03:27 PM
Positive fact:

@SN_Baseball: Vin Scully called his first #Dodgers game 65 years ago today. http://t.co/4R5Wvea5jW

NebraskaRed
04-18-2015, 03:28 PM
C. Trent Rosecrans ‏@ctrent 4s5 seconds ago
Quick math, Zack Cozart is hitting .333/.375/.500 at this point #Reds

Kc61
04-18-2015, 03:28 PM
If this were the NFL we'd be about 3 minutes into the second game of the season.

They suck right now but it is still incredibly early.

Yeah. Reds will come alive during interleague play. That's when they usually get going LOL.

Tom Servo
04-18-2015, 03:28 PM
If this were the NFL we'd be about 3 minutes into the second game of the season.

They suck right now but it is still incredibly early.
Everybody wants to be the first to declare it's over, like the entertainment writer declaring that the popular TV series that has a bad episode has clearly jumped the shark.

NebraskaRed
04-18-2015, 03:29 PM
If you're so sure the team sucks and has no chance this year, there are certainly better things to do with your time.

50YrRedsFan
04-18-2015, 03:29 PM
You are forgetting Bruce's first big slump which resulted in a long RedsZone thread on how "bad luck" was the cause of his problems. There is a long history here. A history of excuses when Jay doesn't do well for a period.

If I was retooling this team, Bruce would be one of the first to go. He's going to hit an occasional HR, but overall, I consider him a big hole in the lineup.

NebraskaRed
04-18-2015, 03:32 PM
Did they say anything about a pitch limit or innings limit for Homer today?

The Operator
04-18-2015, 03:33 PM
Jim Day just now found out where the nickname Tony Disco came from?

If they were reading Redszone they'd have known ages ago.

Tom Servo
04-18-2015, 03:33 PM
Did they say anything about a pitch limit or innings limit for Homer today?
Nope, Price said there's no limit.

Kc61
04-18-2015, 03:33 PM
If I was retooling this team, Bruce would be one of the first to go. He's going to hit an occasional HR, but overall, I consider him a big hole in the lineup.

Reds will never, ever trade Bruce, it violates every continuity rule the club lives by.

But after 2016 Reds have a $13MM team option on Bruce. That will get ownership's attention.

kramer1
04-18-2015, 03:34 PM
If you're so sure the team sucks and has no chance this year, there are certainly better things to do with your time.

I really can't think of anything.

Tom Servo
04-18-2015, 03:35 PM
Hoping for at least the moral victory of Homer not giving up more than 3 runs today.

757690
04-18-2015, 03:36 PM
The failure to think usually results in bad decisions. Or the inability to see the need for decisions.

You had better hope Cueto remains healthy. Because if not the Reds will have blown an opportunity to help secure the future.

If the Reds are out if it by the trade deadline, of course you trade Cueto. That's a no brainer. Discussing it now is pointless, as it's a life hypothetical, and way to early.

50YrRedsFan
04-18-2015, 03:38 PM
If you're so sure the team sucks and has no chance this year, there are certainly better things to do with your time.

My head says they aren't going anywhere, but my heart will always hope they will. Being a Reds fan for going on 50 years, I've seen the good and the bad and see this team with too many weak spots. But you never know when someone will have a career year and carry a team. I will never give up.

villain612
04-18-2015, 03:38 PM
Man, 4-0 sure was fun.

NebraskaRed
04-18-2015, 03:38 PM
I really can't think of anything.

http://www.reddit.com/r/InternetIsBeautiful/

757690
04-18-2015, 03:39 PM
as I see it -- the Reds have a lead-off man that doesn't get on base much - a 4 hole hitter (Mes when healthy) that is likely not ready to hit 4th -- and 5-8 hitters that don't bring anything special to the plate -- they do have a competitive and or interesting starter group plus a good closer --- which is why I predicted an under .500 record

Sadly I think gap is not small between the Whiny Birds and the Reds

Cards have their holes too. Not going to get into this debate in a game thread, but Cards fans have plenty to worry about this season.

Tom Servo
04-18-2015, 03:42 PM
Cards have their holes too. Not going to get into this debate in a game thread, but Cards fans have plenty to worry about this season.
4 straight NLCS appearances, safe to say they're not sweating things the way we are.

kramer1
04-18-2015, 03:42 PM
My head says they aren't going anywhere, but my heart will always hope they will. Being a Reds fan for going on 50 years, I've seen the good and the bad and see this team with too many weak spots. But you never know when someone will have a career year and carry a team. I will never give up.

I was born in 1980. I was 10 when they won the World Series and barely remember it and wasn't old enough to appreciate it anyway. When's my time? I'm the guy who has the money. I'm the target customer. I demand better. I deserve better.

RedsBrick
04-18-2015, 03:43 PM
This team can't hit, but at least they can't pitch either.

kramer1
04-18-2015, 03:45 PM
This team can't hit, but at least they can't pitch either.

So we've got that going for us....which is nice.

Red Raindog
04-18-2015, 03:45 PM
Everybody wants to be the first to declare it's over, like the entertainment writer declaring that the popular TV series that has a bad episode has clearly jumped the shark.

love that phrase

RedTeamGo!
04-18-2015, 03:45 PM
Cards have their holes too. Not going to get into this debate in a game thread, but Cards fans have plenty to worry about this season.

Cards fans do have a lot worry about.

- Have Chipotle cater the NLCS party, or go with pizza and wings

- How many MVP votes will their players receive overall

- What young arm will come up out of nowhere and dominate the NL Central?

- In the June draft will they select a major league ready hitter or pitcher this year?

- Sink money into playoff tickets or spend the money on a 60 inch LED to watch the playoffs from the comfort of their own home?

So much to worry about. Being a Cards fan is tough.

The Operator
04-18-2015, 03:47 PM
Greeeaaatt decision to bring Home out for another inning.

757690
04-18-2015, 03:47 PM
4 straight NLCS appearances, safe to say they're not sweating things the way we are.

They should. Wainwright and Molina, their two most valuable players during that run, look to be on a sharp decline.

kramer1
04-18-2015, 03:48 PM
They should. Wainwright and Molina, their two most valuable players during that run, look to be on a sharp decline.

Molina is raking.

Tom Servo
04-18-2015, 03:48 PM
Welp, not looking like my 3 run hope for Homer is happening. Cardinals been knocking the ball around on him all day. Hopefully can chalk it up to his traditional struggles against STL.

757690
04-18-2015, 03:50 PM
Molina is raking.

Looks terrible on defense, and that's the most valuable part of his game. 705 OPS. entering today

- - - Updated - - -

Homer hates April. Not worried about him long term, as long as he's healthy.

Tom Servo
04-18-2015, 03:51 PM
Cards fans do have a lot worry about.

- Have Chipotle cater the NLCS party, or go with pizza and wings

- How many MVP votes will their players receive overall

- What young arm will come up out of nowhere and dominate the NL Central?

- In the June draft will they select a major league ready hitter or pitcher this year?

- Sink money into playoff tickets or spend the money on a 60 inch LED to watch the playoffs from the comfort of their own home?

So much to worry about. Being a Cards fan is tough.
The ones who enjoy all of those benefits with the added bonus of not living in St. Louis really got everything figured out.

villain612
04-18-2015, 03:51 PM
I eagerly anticipate my friend who's a Cardinals fan to post the postgame result on my facebook wall later.

kramer1
04-18-2015, 03:51 PM
Looks terrible on defense, and that's the most valuable part of his game. 705 OPS. entering today

- - - Updated - - -

Homer hates April. Not worried about him long term, as long as he's healthy.

So, sometimes it's too early and sometimes it isn't? lol ok

The Operator
04-18-2015, 03:53 PM
They should. Wainwright and Molina, their two most valuable players during that run, look to be on a sharp decline.Yea, but they never have any shortage of guys who come out of nowhere to become Cy Young & MVP candidates.

757690
04-18-2015, 03:53 PM
So, sometimes it's too early and sometimes it isn't? lol ok

Molina's decline started last year. As did Wainwright's. His second half was underwhelming.

The Operator
04-18-2015, 03:53 PM
5-1

Ballgame

NebraskaRed
04-18-2015, 03:53 PM
It wasn't like they were going to win this game anyway.

Tom Servo
04-18-2015, 03:54 PM
So not even the moral victory I hoped for. Seems about right.

kramer1
04-18-2015, 03:54 PM
Nice no move, Price.

Is he purposely trying to lose games? I don't get it. I really don't.

The Operator
04-18-2015, 03:54 PM
Homer was gassed last inning and Price brings back out for another inning in his first start of the year.

For such a great pitching coach I really do not understand his managerial decisions with regards to his staff.

NebraskaRed
04-18-2015, 03:54 PM
And there he goes http://i.imgur.com/tZOS8.gif

villain612
04-18-2015, 03:55 PM
Let Gregg pitch.

757690
04-18-2015, 03:55 PM
Yea, but they never have any shortage of guys who come out of nowhere to become Cy Young & MVP candidates.

I'll grant you the Cardinal's deal with the devil. But talent wise, they've haven't been that much better than the Reds over the last 5 years.

jojo
04-18-2015, 03:55 PM
Carpenter. Another crippling, needless extension for the Cards. Great contract for Homer!

RedsBrick
04-18-2015, 03:56 PM
Driving in runs with two outs wins games and championships.

50YrRedsFan
04-18-2015, 03:57 PM
Let Gregg pitch.

This is now the ONLY kind of game he should pitch in. Parra and Badenhop also.

Beltway
04-18-2015, 03:57 PM
Homer was gassed last inning and Price brings back out for another inning in his first start of the year.

For such a great pitching coach I really do not understand his managerial decisions with regards to his staff.
He doesn't trust the bullpen. Neither do I.

WrongVerb
04-18-2015, 03:57 PM
Medium leverage situation called for Cingrani to come in against Carpenter. And he wasn't even warming up.

This isn't just an indictment of Price, but baseball managers REALLY have to get away from thinking of the game in terms of innings and instead in terms of leverage situations. A rapidly tiring Bailey in his first start of the season with 2 on against a VERY good major league hitter while down by 2 runs? Naw, bring on the lefty fireballer for that, thank you very much.

Kc61
04-18-2015, 03:58 PM
If the Reds are out if it by the trade deadline, of course you trade Cueto. That's a no brainer. Discussing it now is pointless, as it's a life hypothetical, and way to early.

Again, you are ignoring the risks of using Cueto for three more months. In pursuit of a pennant that is a massive long shot.
The guys against trading Cueto have ignored this point all winter and now all spring.

NebraskaRed
04-18-2015, 03:59 PM
For the second I thought Manny was not going to throw that ball over to Votto.

757690
04-18-2015, 03:59 PM
Carpenter. Another crippling, needless extension for the Cards. Great contract for Homer!

Bailey's contract want the smarted move by the Reds, agreed.

But Carpenter's deal was needless. He wasn't even arb eligible, and coming off a career year. Cards overpaid by about $10M by doing it a year too early.

Cursh14
04-18-2015, 04:00 PM
Jesus Christ you people are reactionary. Many of you were ready to declare us champions after 4 games, and now we should trade cueto... Chill out! This is freaking baseball. Loooong season. I am not worried right now. Just breathe. If every inning is drawing a new conclusion on the team's future, you're doing baseball wrong.

Kc61
04-18-2015, 04:00 PM
Homer was gassed last inning and Price brings back out for another inning in his first start of the year.

For such a great pitching coach I really do not understand his managerial decisions with regards to his staff.

Not to mention that caution might be a good plan for a $100 MM pitcher coming back from surgery.

757690
04-18-2015, 04:01 PM
Again, you are ignoring the risks of using Cueto for three more months. In pursuit of a pennant that is a massive long shot.
The guys against trading Cueto have ignored this point all winter and now all spring.

The risks of using Cueto for three months vs. The risks of throwing in the towel on the season too early.

Crumbley
04-18-2015, 04:01 PM
It is saracasm. Point being that some RedsZoners will find any excuse for Bruce when he's not doing well.
Something something he's only 28

NebraskaRed
04-18-2015, 04:01 PM
Let Gregg pitch! Let Gregg pitch! Let them play! I mean, Let Gregg Pitch!

BluegrassRedleg
04-18-2015, 04:02 PM
Price has proven himself to be incompetent at every turn.

villain612
04-18-2015, 04:02 PM
Long way to play.

As bad as this team was last year, they were 7 games over .500 at the break.

Kc61
04-18-2015, 04:02 PM
Jesus Christ you people are reactionary. Many of you were ready to declare us champions after 4 games, and now we should trade cueto... Chill out! This is freaking baseball. Loooong season. I am not worried right now. Just breathe. If every inning is drawing a new conclusion on the team's future, you're doing baseball wrong.

I wanted to trade Cueto in January, when it was clear to me that the Reds weren't really gearing up for a pennant drive.

Just because an opinion is given in April doesn't mean it's based on a small sample of games. There are pertinent facts other than the April record.

malcontent
04-18-2015, 04:02 PM
He doesn't trust the bullpen. Neither do I.
Price doesn't really inspire trust, either.

How many more years on that contract of his?

Cursh14
04-18-2015, 04:03 PM
I wanted to trade Cueto in January, when it was clear to me that the Reds weren't really gearing up for a pennant drive.

Just because an opinion is given in April doesn't mean it's based on a small sample of games. There are pertinent facts other than the April record.
I don't get the appeal of trading cueto. We have a pretty great recent track record of locking up talent, why trade him?

NebraskaRed
04-18-2015, 04:04 PM
When Cozart hits, he sees Eugenio Suarez's face on the ball.

757690
04-18-2015, 04:04 PM
If Votto's healthy, this season is very winnable.

757690
04-18-2015, 04:05 PM
Okay, Cards lose smartest fans in baseball tag with their standing ovation of Skip.

Magdal
04-18-2015, 04:05 PM
Are the fans cheering for Skip because he's gone?

757690
04-18-2015, 04:07 PM
If Reds lose this game, they will still have a better record than the Nationals. #itsearly

Kc61
04-18-2015, 04:08 PM
The risks of using Cueto for three months vs. The risks of throwing in the towel on the season too early.

I think the Reds threw in the towel this off-season. I don't expect you to agree. They did not conduct this off-season like a team trying to win a pennant IMO.

I see the risk of using Cueto for three months as the potential loss of a haul of prospects. IMO that haul of prospects would dramatically boost the future. So I see it as a very meaningful risk.

NebraskaRed
04-18-2015, 04:10 PM
Gregg for president.

BUTLER REDSFAN
04-18-2015, 04:11 PM
Lololololo. Reds down 4 and gregg shuts em down

RedsBrick
04-18-2015, 04:11 PM
I don't get the appeal of trading cueto. We have a pretty great recent track record of locking up talent, why trade him?

I'd sure like to keep Cueto's talent, but he's going to command a ton of cash. Reds already have 3 tons committed to current players...maybe the team can do it, but I have my doubts.

Cursh14
04-18-2015, 04:13 PM
I'd sure like to keep Cueto's talent, but he's going to command a ton of cash. Reds already have 3 tons committed to current players...maybe the team can do it, but I have my doubts.
I don't really understand why we as fans worry about how much our team spends on players. It's not our money. I don't think it will result in there not being enough money for other players.

villain612
04-18-2015, 04:13 PM
The comeback begins.

Thanks to Kevin Gregg for sparking it.

NebraskaRed
04-18-2015, 04:13 PM
The bad thing is that Price will use this game as evidence that Gregg is "coming around"

faffy42
04-18-2015, 04:14 PM
Alright on a side note...I don't like when players are chompin away at gum or chew when they're playing. It looks like their anxious. Bothers me. Greggs gum chomping... and bryds huge mouth of chew bug me.

Cursh14
04-18-2015, 04:15 PM
The bad thing is that Price will use this game as evidence that Gregg is "coming around"
All my talking about it being a long season, but I am ready for gregg to be gone. He hasn't been even decent in years. He's just so bad.

BluegrassRedleg
04-18-2015, 04:19 PM
Fat boy plays like Keith Hernandez vs Reds.

kramer1
04-18-2015, 04:20 PM
Leaving Homer in too long looms large now.

VottoFan54
04-18-2015, 04:21 PM
Should've had a few more runs off Maness. He got three outs off of hard hit balls from Pena and Votto while allowing 4 hits.

BUTLER REDSFAN
04-18-2015, 04:23 PM
Come on jay...the mendoza line is in sight

kramer1
04-18-2015, 04:25 PM
Bruce gets a hit and barely a word from Grande. A Cardinal gets a hit and he about has a coronary.

NebraskaRed
04-18-2015, 04:26 PM
Come on jay...the mendoza line is in sight

And a nice hit by Bruce.

Todd Gack
04-18-2015, 04:26 PM
The bad thing is that Price will use this game as evidence that Gregg is "coming around"

So? Parra was dog crap the first month he came here and ended up being pretty darn good for us. Patience my friend.

Kc61
04-18-2015, 04:28 PM
Byrd needs to homer here.

villain612
04-18-2015, 04:28 PM
A HR from Byrd would be good redemption

faffy42
04-18-2015, 04:29 PM
....and raise your hand if you thought Bryd would drive in a run there...

NebraskaRed
04-18-2015, 04:32 PM
Why not leave Gregg in?

malcontent
04-18-2015, 04:32 PM
Why did Hamilton come out?

Mutaman
04-18-2015, 04:33 PM
I am not worried right now.

I'm a bit worried.

NebraskaRed
04-18-2015, 04:33 PM
Why did Hamilton come out?

Seemed to hurt himself jumping over Fat Adams. They haven't said anything else about it.

la-di-da-di
04-18-2015, 04:34 PM
looked like hip flexor, maybe. Had to leap around adams at first.

kramer1
04-18-2015, 04:35 PM
Hamilton looked like he pulled a groin to me

NebraskaRed
04-18-2015, 04:36 PM
2 errors in 2 games for Phillips.

kramer1
04-18-2015, 04:38 PM
Clearly safe. Wasted challenge.

50YrRedsFan
04-18-2015, 04:48 PM
Jumbo having some difficulty locating his pitches, but he looks a lot better than Parra and Gregg.

The Operator
04-18-2015, 04:50 PM
Cozart the suddenly Votto-esque hitter on base.

texasdave
04-18-2015, 04:50 PM
love that phrase

It's early in the season, but Redszone members have clearly jumped the snark.

NebraskaRed
04-18-2015, 04:52 PM
Boesch is going to boesch this one over the wall.....but probably not.

villain612
04-18-2015, 04:53 PM
I'll take a BB here.

NebraskaRed
04-18-2015, 04:53 PM
Boesch is going to boesch this one over the wall.....but probably not.

But he did walk, so there's that.

757690
04-18-2015, 04:53 PM
Another worriy for the Cards. The bullpen, especially their closer. He'll probably get the save, but he was facing the bottom of the order, with a three run lead, and is already in trouble.

Cursh14
04-18-2015, 04:53 PM
I want to believe right here! Let's do it!

VottoFan54
04-18-2015, 04:53 PM
If Mes can PH, now would be the time to do it.

BluegrassRedleg
04-18-2015, 04:54 PM
Another worriy for the Cards. The bullpen, especially their closer. He'll probably get the save, but he was facing the bottom of the order, with a three run lead, and is already in trouble.

'Tis a mere speedbump until the inevitable game-ending double play.

NebraskaRed
04-18-2015, 04:54 PM
Do they walk Votto?

BluegrassRedleg
04-18-2015, 04:55 PM
The fat boy continues to pull plays out of his considerable cornhole.

The Operator
04-18-2015, 04:56 PM
Wow the 3rd base ump wants to go home. Joey did not swing at that.

BluegrassRedleg
04-18-2015, 04:56 PM
Molina just realized, "You know, there's no reason to pitch to this guy."

Cursh14
04-18-2015, 04:56 PM
Most subjective call in sports is still subjective. So annoying.

BluegrassRedleg
04-18-2015, 04:57 PM
Votto comes up, and this guy turns into Greg Maddux.

Cursh14
04-18-2015, 04:57 PM
Well crap.

The Operator
04-18-2015, 04:57 PM
Votto got hosed in that at bat.

Todd Gack
04-18-2015, 04:57 PM
No reason for Joey to swing the bat there.

NebraskaRed
04-18-2015, 04:57 PM
The strikeout that was definitely not strikeout. What a joke.

757690
04-18-2015, 04:57 PM
'Tis a mere speedbump until the inevitable game-ending double play.

He'll likely get the save, but he hasn't been very reliable since he became the closer.

Tom Servo
04-18-2015, 04:58 PM
thanks blue, like the Cardinals needed help.

757690
04-18-2015, 04:58 PM
The strikeout that was definitely not strikeout. What a joke.

Way too close to take in that situation. That's on Votto.

Todd Gack
04-18-2015, 04:58 PM
The strikeout that was definitely not strikeout. What a joke.

Maybe, maybe not. It wouldn't hurt to swing the bat when the game's on the line.

Oh well, we didn't deserve to win this game anyway.

Red Raindog
04-18-2015, 04:58 PM
Wow the 3rd base ump wants to go home. Joey did not swing at that.

his brother at home plate is in a hurry too

reds1869
04-18-2015, 04:58 PM
That strike zone was, um, interesting.

jojo
04-18-2015, 04:59 PM
Another worriy for the Cards. The bullpen, especially their closer. He'll probably get the save, but he was facing the bottom of the order, with a three run lead, and is already in trouble.

What are the winning lotto numbers for tonight....wait, nevermind.

50YrRedsFan
04-18-2015, 04:59 PM
Reds with 6 runs in past 4 games. Hard to win with 1.5 runs per game.

villain612
04-18-2015, 04:59 PM
http://memecrunch.com/meme/3AL9G/oh-no-we-suck-again/image.png

reds1869
04-18-2015, 05:00 PM
Maybe, maybe not. It wouldn't hurt to swing the bat when the game's on the line.

What exactly is he going to do with any of those pitches? I'll tell you what, ground out weakly or pop up to end the game. Those are supposed to be balls for a reason. And they were for most of the day.

Red Raindog
04-18-2015, 05:00 PM
Reds with 6 runs in past 4 games. Hard to win with 1.5 runs per game.

well it was against their 4 & 5 starters the last two games

BluegrassRedleg
04-18-2015, 05:00 PM
The check swing was BS, but the other two pitches were just phenomenal. If you lock up a guy like Votto on that last pitch, you've really done something nice.

jojo
04-18-2015, 06:28 PM
What exactly is he going to do with any of those pitches? I'll tell you what, ground out weakly or pop up to end the game. Those are supposed to be balls for a reason. And they were for most of the day.

Or maybe foul them off and work the count until he gets something he can drive?

CrackerJack
04-19-2015, 01:26 AM
This has to be the worst-hitting outfield in baseball right now, and I'm not sure I see the upside or any "dramatic" change. Just a bad group at the plate caught in the worst phases of their careers right now (2 rapidly declining players and a rushed CF'er in his second year being asked to lead-off, and is hitting .195).

Halfway between
04-19-2015, 03:40 AM
Bailey's contract want the smarted move by the Reds, agreed.

But Carpenter's deal was needless. He wasn't even arb eligible, and coming off a career year. Cards overpaid by about $10M by doing it a year too early.

Is this a joke? Carpenter is their best player. He's got 7 doubles after ten games. At or near the team top in both runs and rbi's (9 each) as a leadoff hitter. Hit a game winning HR against us in Cincy. Good fielder. Six years and less than a quarter of Votto's contract. What,s not to like?

Contracts continue to escalate. there's no sense in waiting on one you need to sign until you can't afford it. Maybe we extend Cueto 2 years ago. Now he has visions of Scherzer money.

757690
04-19-2015, 04:03 AM
Is this a joke? Carpenter is their best player. He's got 7 doubles after ten games. At or near the team top in both runs and rbi's (9 each) as a leadoff hitter. Hit a game winning HR against us in Cincy. Good fielder. Six years and less than a quarter of Votto's contract. What,s not to like?

Contracts continue to escalate. there's no sense in waiting on one you need to sign until you can't afford it. Maybe we extend Cueto 2 years ago. Now he has visions of Scherzer money.

The issue isn't how good Carpenter is. The issue is that the Cards did not need to sign him to an extension at the time. He wasn't arb eligible that year. That means the Cards could have paid him near league minimum and there was nothing he could do about it.

Carpenter had zero negotiatingleverage against the Cards that year. The following year, he was eligible for arbitration, and due for a big raise. That's when you sign a guy to an extension. The year before makes zero sense, unless you get him at a discounts which the Cardinals did not.

If they had waited a year, because he had a worse year after he signed the extension, they would have been able to sign him for less, much less, probably around $10M less over the whole deal.

BernieCarbo
04-19-2015, 08:18 AM
Contract extensions are almost always mutually beneficial, and Carpenter's is one of them. There is a lot of value for both parties to take contract talks and arbitration off the table for a few years (arbitration is one of the most unpleasant things in baseball). A young player can set himself up for life financially even if he takes a fastball to the eye in his next game or blows out a knee or needs Tommy John, whereas the team could possibly get some MVP years for a song.

The Votto extension was kind of odd in that his contract was more like an open market free agent signing, but with Carpenter there is hardly a team in baseball that wouldn't have jumped on that opportunity. I know the Reds could use a guy like Carpenter right now. It's getting to be a very common strategy with young stars, if for no other reason than to let everyone just concentrate on baseball.

Todd Gack
04-19-2015, 10:53 AM
What exactly is he going to do with any of those pitches? I'll tell you what, ground out weakly or pop up to end the game. Those are supposed to be balls for a reason. And they were for most of the day.

This is why it hurts for Joey to only swing at balls in the zone as opposed to 1 or 2 inches off the plate. Ask the Cardinals what they were supposed to do with anything Cueto pitches to them. THey seem to do OK.

757690
04-19-2015, 11:53 AM
Contract extensions are almost always mutually beneficial, and Carpenter's is one of them. There is a lot of value for both parties to take contract talks and arbitration off the table for a few years (arbitration is one of the most unpleasant things in baseball). A young player can set himself up for life financially even if he takes a fastball to the eye in his next game or blows out a knee or needs Tommy John, whereas the team could possibly get some MVP years for a song.

The Votto extension was kind of odd in that his contract was more like an open market free agent signing, but with Carpenter there is hardly a team in baseball that wouldn't have jumped on that opportunity. I know the Reds could use a guy like Carpenter right now. It's getting to be a very common strategy with young stars, if for no other reason than to let everyone just concentrate on baseball.

You're missing the point. The issue wasn't whether to offer Carpenter an extension, it's when should the Cards have offered that extension.

Carpenter wasn't arbitration eligible at the time of the signing, so there was no need for the Cardinals to make an extension. There was zero risk for them if they waited a year, he was only going to be paid near league minimum that year. Zero risk to wait, but a big risk in offering it too soon, since he was coming off an MVP type season, and the extension was paying him like an MVP type player (his extension was very similar to Andrew McCutchen's in price, who signed away the same controllable years). It would have been smarter to wait a year, until they actually had to give him a big raise.

He had a much less impressive the following year, and if the Cards had waited, they wouldn't have had to make as big of an offer since it was coming off a non- MVP type year.

Add in the fact, that the two free agent year they bought out would be at ages 32 and 33, ages when a player usually declines, it looks even less smart. Pretty much every extension offered to a young star player under team control, only goes until his age 29 season or earlier. For instance, the Reds would be dumb to offer one to Fraizer, since he would be in his 30's when he reaches free agency, like Carpenter will be at the end of his extension.

ac084c
04-19-2015, 12:42 PM
The issue isn't how good Carpenter is. The issue is that the Cards did not need to sign him to an extension at the time. He wasn't arb eligible that year. That means the Cards could have paid him near league minimum and there was nothing he could do about it.

Carpenter had zero negotiatingleverage against the Cards that year. The following year, he was eligible for arbitration, and due for a big raise. That's when you sign a guy to an extension. The year before makes zero sense, unless you get him at a discounts which the Cardinals did not.

If they had waited a year, because he had a worse year after he signed the extension, they would have been able to sign him for less, much less, probably around $10M less over the whole deal.

According to Fangraphs value model, Carpenter's 2014 4.0 fwar was worth $30.1MM (he made $1.5MM). 10 games into the 2015 season his 0.7 fWAR is worth $5.5M (he's making $3.5MM).

If you put even a modicum of stock into this model, the Cardinals have already more than earned a return on investment and have gotten the first two years at a "discount"

But I'm sure next you'll tell me that model is bogus.