7/22/15 - Reds vs. Cubs - Game 2

[Tom Servo]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CKi0zspUMAAb-x-.jpg

[CySeymour]

Who's getting sent down to make room for Cingrani?

[kaldaniels]

Who's getting sent down to make room for Cingrani?

26th man for the doubleheader perhaps?

[klw]

Who's getting sent down to make room for Cingrani?

You can add a pitcher as a 26th man in a DH- but I assume there will be Cingrani for x and another pitcher up with the bullpen being thin and Cingrani not past 5 innings in his MiLB starts.

[ScotlandRed]

Lineup -

1. Hamilton
2. Votto
3. Frazier
4. Bruce
5. Pena
6. Byrd
7. Suarez
8. De Jesus Jr.
9. Cingrani

Billy's heroics in game 1 see him return to the lead off spot. I still have no idea what gives Pena the right to be hitting above Byrd and Suarez

#GOREDS

[CySeymour]

26th man for the doubleheader perhaps?

Oh, duh. Thanks, Kal.

[ScotlandRed]

Duplicate thread. Admins can close.

[ScotlandRed]

Not sure why Price thinks Pena deserves to be hitting in front of Byrd and Suarez. Been cold for a few weeks now with zero power.

[CySeymour]

Not sure why Price thinks Pena deserves to be hitting in front of Byrd and Suarez. Been cold for a few weeks now with zero power.

Even worse, why isn't Suarez leading off instead of Hamilton?

[Boston Red]

Only thing better than beating the Cubs once in a day is beating them twice!

[Ironman92]

Let's Go team.

[Kc61]

C'mon Tony.

[Ironman92]

Good start

[Kc61]

Good start

Frankly, I don't care if he allows 30 runs today, I'd like to see Cingrani start for the rest of this season.

I really think this is where Cingrani belongs. He's more deceptive than overpowering, I think his stuff works best as a starter. Even with the limited secondary stuff.

[Tom Servo]

Frankly, I don't care if he allows 30 runs today, I'd like to see Cingrani start for the rest of this season.

I really think this is where Cingrani belongs. He's more deceptive than overpowering, I think his stuff works best as a starter. Even with the limited secondary stuff.
This. And on top of everything else, the alternative is the Josh Smiths of the world.

[ScotlandRed]

This is the stronger Reds line up of the 2 today and the weaker Cubs one. Should hopefully mean good things.

[Red Raindog]

nice bunt single for BH

[757690]

The key to Dee Gordon's success has been his improved bunting skills. That's where Billy can improve. Hope this is a sign of that improvement.

[androosh]

Ohhhh Bill-eh, Bill-eh, Bill-eh!!!

[Tom Servo]

That Votto is so hot right now

[Kc61]

If Hamilton can hit .240 with a .300 OBP he will be a huge weapon. If he does better, he's a beast.

He doesn't need to be a great straight up hitter. His speed is such a weapon.

This season has been a bummer for his hitting, but I really believe he can be successful. People will have to adjust their thinking because his offensive numbers do not have to match typical success rates.

[villain612]

Joey "no longer elite" Votto improves his .900+ OPS.

[Tom Servo]

Thom Brennaman - unsatisfied until you learn to hit 1.000 with RISP

[Kc61]

Double play, runners stranded, what else is new.

I dont' expect the Reds to win this one, it's tough to sweep a better team, but it's worth watching for Cingrani, hot Votto, and hopefully a more effective Hamilton. And some other stuff too.

[ScotlandRed]

That's very frustrating.

[villain612]

I miss Bryan Price, the pitching coach.

[Tom Servo]

I'm just gonna go ahead and say it:


Frazier keeps making errors = silence

Votto makes the occasional error = execute him

[villain612]

Only 26 pitches through 2 innings for Tony.

Good work.

[Tom Servo]

also I may have too much time on my hands

http://i.imgur.com/SzgKjcR.png

[Red Raindog]

Thom Brennaman - unsatisfied until you learn to hit 1.000 with RISP

if they really cared they would hit 2.000

[Chip R]

I'm just gonna go ahead and say it:


Frazier keeps making errors = silence

Votto makes the occasional error = execute him

It's because Votto is Canadian.

[Gandalf the Red]

It's because Votto is Canadian.

To quote William Shatner on Conan O'Brien's Celebrity Secrets:

"I'm a Canadian. If the U.S. and Canada went to war, it'd be my duty to kill as many Americans as possible. I'd enjoy it."

[Ironman92]

Frazier didn't get the error....that guy takes care of the Reds guys....especially Frazier, Votto and Phillips

[757690]

Price's comment about Cingrani is very telling. He said he hoped Cingrani was a more complete pitcher now. I have a feeling Price favors average fastball guys with lots of pitches over hard throwers. He was an average fastball guy when he was pitching.

[Tom Servo]

Suarez smokes a single up the middle to load the bases

[ScotlandRed]

A run. Just one. Please.

[ScotlandRed]

Sample size getting bigger and bigger for Suarez. Guy can hit.

[Tom Servo]

Nobody (messes) with De Jesus! RBI single to right

1-0 Redlegs

[Red Raindog]

A run. Just one. Please.

your wish is granted -- but why not ask for more?

:)

[Tom Servo]

lol cubs

2-0 Reds on the Castro error

[ScotlandRed]

Yay. Although I got slightly worried as my gameday showed that as 'no out' rather than 'no out, run(s)' was confused as to where De Jesus was going to go.

[757690]

Castro might be the worst everyday SS in the league.

[Red Raindog]

9490


got to love it -- Cubbies gonna Cub

[Tom Servo]

Billy 2 run double! Smoked it!

4-0 Redlegs

[757690]

Cingrani cost Hamilton a triple.

[ScotlandRed]

Bases loaded none out top 3 coming to bat:eek:

[Kc61]

Yay Billy. Show all these nay sayers. Good for you.

[ScotlandRed]

Put down the phones Walt here come the Reds!!!

[Gandalf the Red]

Most amazing thing about Thom's call of Hamilton's double is that he actually sounded like he was on our side.

[Tom Servo]

IBB to Votto, because he is so hot right now

[WrongVerb]

Most amazing thing about Thom's call of Hamilton's double is that he actually sounded like he was on our side.

Indeed. Followed by Thom's definition of "crushed" which apparently means almost all the way to the warning track.

[757690]

For the past 40 years, it seemed that every mediocre starter that the Cubs called up, made his debut against the Reds, and pitched brilliantly, only to never be heard from again. Today might be the first time in my life the Reds have gotten to a Cubs rookie pitcher.

[Tom Servo]

So it only took a small slump from Frazier for Thom to go back to the "can't get a runner in from 3rd" meme.

[ScotlandRed]

IBB to Votto with Frazier and Bruce coming to bat, I've forgotten what a really big inning looks like...

[SweetLou1990]

2 DP in 2 innings for Bruce ?

[50YrRedsFan]

So it only took a small slump from Frazier for Thom to go back to the "can't get a runner in from 3rd" meme.

Frazier with 5 left on in 2 innings....send him down:laugh:

[Red Raindog]

Thom -- that was the 2nd out

[Tom Servo]

And on top of everything else Thom can't even keep track of how many outs there are with it right in front of him.

[WrongVerb]

So it only took a small slump from Frazier for Thom to go back to the "can't get a runner in from 3rd" meme.

I think Thom would only be happy if the other team was full of great looking, phenomenal players who all had incredible back stories and were not even trying to get the Reds' players out.

[50YrRedsFan]

The Reds offense definitely likes home cooking.

[Gandalf the Red]

Thom was so busy criticizing someone else's performance that he apparently lost track of how many outs there were.

[ScotlandRed]

Slightly Reds related after hitting for the cycle last time out Shin Soo Choo goes 1-5 with 4Ks. Rough night.

[Tom Servo]

Dallas Beeler went to Oral Roberts University

https://scontent-lga1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/11701042_10153424783325242_1259021407531642249_n.j pg?oh=b674b2f1db9cb25c1b4ab5b6f9cde98a&oe=56454C02

[50YrRedsFan]

The Reds have scored 14 runs so far today, and only 1 from a HR.....amazing!

[SweetLou1990]

Not to jinx it but 2 wins in a row is called a "winning streak"

[Gandalf the Red]

The Reds have scored 14 runs so far today, and only 1 from a HR.....amazing!

Reminds me of when we used to play softball in eighth grade gym class.

[Tom Servo]

There's the high fastball from Cingrani that I love.

[Tom Servo]

5-1 game after the Castro RBI double

[Chip R]

Indeed. Followed by Thom's definition of "crushed" which apparently means almost all the way to the warning track.

To be fair, for Billy, that ball was crushed.

- - - Updated - - -

Rizzo plunked. He knows what he did.

[Tom Servo]

Rizzo plunked on a 2-2 pitch. 2 on, 1 out for Soler.

[The Operator]

Ball 75

[Tom Servo]

Danger now, Cingrani seems to have lost his mechanics and walks Soler without having thrown one in the zone.

[Red Raindog]

Not to jinx it but 2 wins in a row is called a "winning streak"

take it back

[WrongVerb]

Anyone seen Cingrani's release point?

[WVRedsFan]

Tony hasn't learned a thing, unfortunately. He's over 40 pitches in the 3rd inning, has the bases loaded and other team within slam range.

[Gandalf the Red]

Ball 75

Maybe Cingrani just needs Ricky Vaughn-style glasses.

[Tom Servo]

Damnit. Denorfia doubles to left. 5-3 game.

[Ironman92]

your wish is granted -- but why not ask for more?

:)

Exactly

Always remember Barry Bonds before 2002 WS saying he always to play in the World Series ....

[Tom Servo]

White Flag Pedro Villarreal warming

[Gandalf the Red]

Villarreal warming. I feel better already.

[Tom Servo]

Kris Bryant pinch hitting after the IBB to Ross. Maddon going big.

[Jdattilo]

Tony doesn't look to have his velocity. Topping out at 91. Sitting 88 or 90.

[Kc61]

Tony hasn't learned a thing, unfortunately. He's over 40 pitches in the 3rd inning, has the bases loaded and other team within slam range.

After all, we gave him almost three innings.

[SweetLou1990]

Cingrani vs Bryant 2-0 count, bases loaded. Time to groove one

[Banshee]

Cingrani not so good this yr.

[Tom Servo]

Bryant wins the battle on a 3-2 pitch with a single

tie game.

[The Operator]

Good lord.

[Crumbley]

It's games like this that make me scared to trade Leake. He's just a guy, but you are buying a degree of competency. Need at least one proven vet in this ocean of question marks.

[Red Raindog]

Price just might want to be fired --- walking to load the bases with TC missing the plate --- ugh

[Chip R]

Meet the new Tony. Same as the old Tony.

[Tom Servo]

I'm not a Maddon cult follower, but that was very good outmaneuvering of Price.

[The Operator]

Tony hasn't learned a thing, unfortunately. He's over 40 pitches in the 3rd inning, has the bases loaded and other team within slam range.I'd say this has more to do with not starting in the big leagues in a long time than anything else.

3 games in the minors =/= fully stretched out, especially after relieving (when pitching at all) all year.

[Tom Servo]

Meet the new Tony. Same as the old Tony.
2.92 ERA in 2013

I admit I'm a bit of a Cingrani apologist, but the 'throw the baby out with the bathwater' attitude towards the guy is baffling to me when we've been treated to crap like Jason Marquis and Josh Smith. It was one bad inning.

[The Operator]

I'm not a Maddon cult follower, but that was very good outmaneuvering of Price.Nothing against Maddon, who I think is quite good - but Paris Hilton could outsmart Bryan Price.

[757690]

I'm not a Maddon cult follower, but that was very good outmaneuvering of Price.

I think the only MLB manager who can't outmaneuver Bryan Price, is Bryan Price.

[androosh]

I iz the sad.

[SweetLou1990]

Bryant's best is better than Cingranis best

[Ironman92]

So how good was Leake...he did that with Schwarber in the lineup

[Ironman92]

Will Skip pitch in this game?

[50YrRedsFan]

Holy Sxxx, I leave for 15 min with a 5-0 lead, and come back to a 5 all tie..........1 pitch Tony not getting it done.

[Tom Servo]

Man, when even Thom is busting on you for making a dumb decision...

['69]

"As we look at Villareal's numbers..."

No, I'd rather not.

[SweetLou1990]

Cingrani is not a starter, is a middle reliever.

[Gandalf the Red]

Man oh man, when even Thom is busting on you for making a dumb decision...

Fixed that for you.

[WrongVerb]

Managerial "Bluff?"

How about Managerial "Sucks?"

[Banshee]

Well, we didn't get all dressed up for nothin'. New ballgame. Don't want anyone getting comfortable around here...

[BCubb2003]

Good job by Pedro Truehouse.

[Gandalf the Red]

Bryan Price: the Cliff Claven of MLB.

[WrongVerb]

2.92 ERA in 2013

I admit I'm a bit of a Cingrani apologist, but the 'throw the baby out with the bathwater' attitude towards the guy is baffling to me when we've been treated to crap like Jason Marquis and Josh Smith. It was one bad inning.

Cingrani was good for 2 innings. There's a place on a pitching staff for guys like that.

Hint: it's not the rotation.

[The Operator]

Man, when even Thom is busting on you for making a dumb decision..."You know who wouldn't have walked to get to the pitcher there? Kyle Schwarber's dad - brother let me tell ya, he's one heck fo a guy. First class all the way."

[BluegrassRedleg]

Good thing Leake was a stud in Game 1.

[Red Raindog]

Holy Sxxx, I leave for 15 min with a 5-0 lead, and come back to a 5 all tie..........1 pitch Tony not getting it done.

I blame SweetLou1990 --- ;)

[Tom Servo]

Cingrani was good for 2 innings. There's a place on a pitching staff for guys like that.

Hint: it's not the rotation.
He was good for 104.2 innings in 2013, 97.1 of which came as a starter.

Maybe he isn't a starter. But giving him more than one start in 2015 over the likes of Marquis and Smith and finding out would be appreciated.

[The Operator]

Was 2013 so long ago that people forget how good Cingrani was as a starter?

He was injured a lot in 2014 and this year he was misused so badly it's borderline comical. I'm not going to let one bad start, after coming back from injury ina year where Bryan Price has personally made sure he's had limited to no exposure - sour my view on his potential.

['69]

Travis Wood in the bullpen, .233 BAA, .must be nice.

[The Operator]

Really, Byrd man? Gunned down by a mile trying to stretch for a double.

['69]

What the ..Byrd

[Tom Servo]

Was 2013 so long ago that people forget how good Cingrani was as a starter?
It's not like it 3 or 4 starts either, it was 18. Just bizarre the way to me that people want to shun him as though we are brimming with effective options.

[androosh]

Dumb trying to go to 2nd for Byrd, but it sure looked like he went around the tag to me on that last replay.

[Always Red]

Is this the Little League World Series? Because Woods pitching in every game!

[The Operator]

It's not like it 3 or 4 starts either, it was 18. Just bizarre the way to me that people want to shun him as though we are brimming with effective options.Right. It might be one thing if this was 2012 and we had Cueto, Latos, Bailey, Arroyo & Leake making all but 1 start the entire year.

But with what we're looking at next year - why on earth wouldn't you want to at least make every effort to find out what you've got with this guy? Boggles my mind.

[Always Red]

Cingrani misused? Does that mean he's ineffective no matter where you put him?

He's been ineffective for two years. I really want him to do well, but no matter what role they put him in, it hasn't worked.

Tony throws a 90-91mph four seam fastball that doesn't move or sink. And struggles with secondary pitches.

In 2013, he was throwing 94-95. Not sure how it's anyone's fault that he doesn't throw as hard anymore.

[Tom Servo]

Cingrani misused? Does that mean he's ineffective no matter where you put him?

He's been ineffective for two years. I really want him to do well, but no matter what role they put him in, it hasn't worked.

Tony throws a 90-91mph four seam fastball that doesn't move or sink. And struggles with secondary pitches.

In 2013, he was throwing 94-95. Not sure how it's anyone's fault that he doesn't throw as hard anymore.
Last year he was hurt. He started off the year nicely, clearly struggled, and it turns out he was hurt and missed the rest of the year.

This year he pitched pretty well out of the bullpen while being used very, very sporadically. Not great, too many walks, but also not many hits and a lot of strikeouts. And now he's made one start where he got blown up in the third.

That's it. It's not like he's been around for 5 years and given chance after chance after chance. Maybe he has lost velocity. Maybe he can't be a starter. But we need to find out. Tossing him into the garbage right now would be a huge mistake.

[The Operator]

Cingrani misused? Does that mean he's ineffective no matter where you put him?

He's been ineffective for two years. I really want him to do well, but no matter what role they put him in, it hasn't worked.

Tony throws a 90-91mph four seam fastball that doesn't move or sink. And struggles with secondary pitches.

In 2013, he was throwing 94-95. Not sure how it's anyone's fault that he doesn't throw as hard anymore.Do you remember earlier this season?

Badenhop and Gregg were blowing games on a nightly basis while Tony went 7-10 days at a time without pitching. When he did get a chance, he was generally effective.

Bryan Price doesn't like him for some reason. I can't remember exactly when but he basically came out and said he doesn't think Tony has what it takes to be a starter. Meanwhile, Jason Marquis was getting lit up every single time he started.

[Banshee]

Last year he was hurt. He started off the year nicely, clearly struggled, and it turns out he was hurt and missed the rest of the year.

This year he pitched pretty well out of the bullpen while being used very, very sporadically. Not great, too many walks, but also not many hits and a lot of strikeouts. And now he's made one start where he got blown up in the third.

But we need to find out. Tossing him into the garbage right now would be a huge mistake.
Totally agree. Not like the reds have anything to lose and they need pitching like crazy. Let him pitch.

[Chip R]

2.92 ERA in 2013

I admit I'm a bit of a Cingrani apologist, but the 'throw the baby out with the bathwater' attitude towards the guy is baffling to me when we've been treated to crap like Jason Marquis and Josh Smith. It was one bad inning.

I'm sorry. I know how much a lot of people on her love him but he's not showing any improvement. And you can blame Price and Pico all you want but they aren't out there throwing the ball. I saw what he did in AAA. 5 IP, 90 some pitches pretty much every time out. That's not improving, that's just spinning your wheels. If this were Smith or Disco or Marquis or Lorenzen pitching like that, people on here would be all over them. Cingrani does that and people make excuses for him.

That's not saying he shouldn't start any more. Let him pitch the rest of the year. If he's healthy enough, put him in the rotation next season. But I have a feeling people are going to run out of excuses for him eventually.

[Always Red]

Last year he was hurt. He started off the year nicely, clearly struggled, and it turns out he was hurt and missed the rest of the year.

This year he pitched pretty well out of the bullpen. Not great, too many walks, but also not many hits and a lot of strikeouts. And now he's made one start where he got blown up in the third.

That's it. It's not like he's been around for 5 years and given chance after chance after chance. Maybe he has lost velocity. Maybe he can't be a starter. But we need to find out. Tossing him into the garbage right now would be a huge mistake.

Tom, I'd never suggest throwing him in the garbage. This is a lost year. I'd run him out there every 5th day and see what he can do. I hope he can turn it around.

To me, he seems like such a high effort thrower that he profiles better as a reliever. He's never been pitch efficient enough to be a SP much past the 5th or 6th.

Joe Maddon talked Travis Wood into the fact that he could help the team more, and his career would last longer as a reliever than a starter. And I think Woody is a better pitcher than Tony, at least at this point.

[WrongVerb]

He was good for 104.2 innings in 2013, 97.1 of which came as a starter.

Maybe he isn't a starter. But giving him more than one start in 2015 over the likes of Marquis and Smith and finding out would be appreciated.

This is his 30th start in the major leagues. Last season he consistently got worse and worse. I'm just saying that perhaps he's a known quantity and that putting him in a role that maximizes his effectiveness would be better than trying to turn him into something he's not. Don't get me wrong, I think he should be part of Price's 42 man pitching staff, but I think he'd be better off in the pen.

[kaldaniels]

Compact stroke nets Votto a single.

[Tom Servo]

I'm sorry. I know how much a lot of people on her love him but he's not showing any improvement. And you can blame Price and Pico all you want but they aren't out there throwing the ball. I saw what he did in AAA. 5 IP, 90 some pitches pretty much every time out. That's not improving, that's just spinning your wheels. If this were Smith or Disco or Marquis or Lorenzen pitching like that, people on here would be all over them. Cingrani does that and people make excuses for him.
And yet in those outings in Louisville he had a 0.00 ERA in those 14 innings, striking batters out at an 11.6 K/9 rate while allowing just 3.9 H/9 and 3.9 BB/9.

I guess pitch efficiency just isn't that important to me. I'll take 5 very good innings over 6 okay ones.

[BluegrassRedleg]

Thom.... Completely bamboozled on a call. Again.

[Banshee]

tHom blows another call. Just clueless whether a ball is gone or not.

[Tom Servo]

Thom.... Completely bamboozled on a call. Again.
I don't know if I should be more mad at him or myself for still letting him trick me.

[Gandalf the Red]

Thom.... Completely bamboozled on a call. Again.

Thom clearly doesn't have it as a starter. Maybe Price should try him in the bullpen.

[Always Red]

Ah, Bryan Price doesn't like him, that's why Tony struggles.

If that's the case, then Tony needs to realize he's gonna be here longer than Price and just get past that.

Price wants to win and save his job. This is the only big league managing job he will ever have. If it means bringing Marty B into games, he's gonna do that at this point.

[WrongVerb]

Thom.... Completely bamboozled on a call. Again.

At least this time the ball made it to the warning track.

[SweetLou1990]

I can't jinx a team that is already jinxed.

[Banshee]

Ah, Bryan Price doesn't like him, that's why Tony struggles.

If that's the case, then Tony needs to realize he's gonna be here longer than Price and just get past that.

Price wants to win and save his job. This is the only big league managing job he will ever have. If it means bringing Marty B into games, he's gonna do that at this point.

I wouldn't let Price manage a 10 cent lemonade stand. This will be his one and only head job I'd bet.

[Ironman92]

At least this time the ball made it to the warning track.

Last night Soler just creamed a line drive to the warning track and Thom was insulting the fans that made noise when it was hit.

He also made more noise on that out than he is on Frazier's walk off grand slam
In the 13th

[Chip R]

And yet in those outings in Louisville he had a 0.00 ERA in those 14 innings, striking batters out at an 11.6 K/9 rate while allowing just 3.9 H/9 and 3.9 BB/9.

I guess pitch efficiency just isn't that important to me. I'll take 5 very good innings over 6 okay ones.

Unfortunately we only got 2 good innings out of him today. I would hope pitch efficiency is important to you with a bullpen like this. Every time he starts you have to have someone ready to take over in the 5th or 6th. And, yes, Disco and Iggy and Smith and Lorenzen all have their problems going past 5 but they all have much less experience than Cingrani. And so far tonight, whipping boy Villareal has pitched much better than Cingrani. I guess Price must like him better.

[Ironman92]

Frazier has had trouble with that play this year but was good on that one.

[Red Raindog]

I can't jinx a team that is already jinxed.

might not be your fault but I'm still going to blame you :cool:

[WrongVerb]

Last night Soler just creamed a line drive to the warning track and Thom was insulting the fans that made noise when it was hit.

He also made more noise on that out than he is on Frazier's walk off grand slam
In the 13th

Maybe that one fooled him too. :)

[BluegrassRedleg]

Last night Soler just creamed a line drive to the warning track and Thom was insulting the fans that made noise when it was hit.

He also made more noise on that out than he is on Frazier's walk off grand slam
In the 13th

The Soler commentary was the first thing I thought of on that.

[Ironman92]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/22/94c35d1995ee9451b921e171f9b27121.jpg

[The Operator]

I don't recall ever saying "Tony struggles because Price doesn't like him."

I said that Price never used Cingrani earlier in the year because he doesn't like him. Even though the guys he was using - Gregg and Badenhop - were getting their teeth kicked in every time out. Every. Single. Time.

And the guy who Price chose over Tony in the rotation - Jason Marquis - got killed nearly every time he took the mound.


And even then, when Tony got chances this year out of the pen he wasn't all that bad. He struggled with command but he was still a heeeelllll of a lot better than the dreck Price was in love with.

Sorry, but I'm not gonna make my mind up that he can't be a starter based on his first start in the big leagues since last year - especially when he was used as a reliever (when used at all) this whole season and given all of 3 starts in AAA to get stretched back out to be a starter.

But if you guys can name all these better rotation options The Reds have, I'm all ears.

[Tom Servo]

He also made more noise on that out than he is on Frazier's walk off grand slam
In the 13th
That's the really weird thing, he'll go nuts over long fly balls and then completely undersell home runs.

[SweetLou1990]

He don't wanna mess w De Jesus. Walk

[Always Red]

I don't recall ever saying "Tony struggles because Price doesn't like him."

I said that Price never used Cingrani earlier in the year because he doesn't like him. Even though the guys he was using - Gregg and Badenhop - were getting their teeth kicked in every time out. Every. Single. Time.

And the guy who Price chose over Tony in the rotation - Jason Marquis - got killed nearly every time he took the mound.


And even then, when Tony got chances this year out of the pen he wasn't all that bad. He struggled with command but he was still a heeeelllll of a lot better than the dreck Price was in love with.

Sorry, but I'm not gonna make my mind up that he can't be a starter based on his first start in the big leagues since last year - especially when he was used as a reliever (when used at all) this whole season and given all of 3 starts in AAA to get stretched back out to be a starter.

But if you guys can name all these better rotation options The Reds have, I'm all ears.

Well, I just said before I'd run him out there every 5th game the rest of the year.

I just don't understand all the defense of his poor pitching for the last two years. If he's been hurt, ok, he's better now, right?

It's time for the Reds to see what they have in Tony. And it's sink or swim for Tony. They need each other.

[WrongVerb]

That's the really weird thing, he'll go nuts over long fly balls and then completely undersell home runs.

Marty undersells them occasionally as well. But he does it with drama and it's entertaining. "That's gone. (pause) LOONGGG drive WAYYYY back in the second deck."

Thom does it almost every time, and it's hamfisted at best. For the Reds, I mean. When The Amazing Schwarber and smooth-faced man-child Bryant tie into them, well, you'd think he just won the lottery.

[BCubb2003]

This is like a rumble where the Sharks and Jets more or less agree with each other: Cingrani has issues, but we might as well put him to the test the rest of the year

[WrongVerb]

This is like a rumble where the Sharks and Jets more or less agree with each other: Cingrani has issues, but we might as well put him to the test the rest of the year

Can I be Tony so I get to kiss Natalie Wood? Yum!

[Tom Servo]

Isn't this the neighborhood rule? And Suarez touched the bag anyway.

[Banshee]

tHom's not liking the pace of this thing called baseball!

[Tom Servo]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neighborhood_play

[WrongVerb]

Isn't this the neighborhood rule? And Suarez touched the bag anyway.

Suarez's foot touched the side of the bag. At best there's no conclusive evidence to overturn the call.

[Always Red]

tHom's not liking the pace of this thing called baseball!

Well he has been there for 10+ hours now.

Locked into a stadium with the 2015 Reds.

[757690]

Well, I just said before I'd run him out there every 5th game the rest of the year.

I just don't understand all the defense of his poor pitching for the last two years. If he's been hurt, ok, he's better now, right?

It's time for the Reds to see what they have in Tony. And it's sink or swim for Tony. They need each other.

I'm not so sure he's fully healthy, or at full strength. He did just come back from an injury, and this emergency start might have come back soon we than the Reds wanted. His velocity was down today.

[klw]

Cubs with the challenge of a force out (I assume from Gameday)- any chance this becomes a homerun?

[Chip R]

I don't recall ever saying "Tony struggles because Price doesn't like him."

I said that Price never used Cingrani earlier in the year because he doesn't like him. Even though the guys he was using - Gregg and Badenhop - were getting their teeth kicked in every time out. Every. Single. Time.

And the guy who Price chose over Tony in the rotation - Jason Marquis - got killed nearly every time he took the mound.


And even then, when Tony got chances this year out of the pen he wasn't all that bad. He struggled with command but he was still a heeeelllll of a lot better than the dreck Price was in love with.

Sorry, but I'm not gonna make my mind up that he can't be a starter based on his first start in the big leagues since last year - especially when he was used as a reliever (when used at all) this whole season and given all of 3 starts in AAA to get stretched back out to be a starter.

But if you guys can name all these better rotation options The Reds have, I'm all ears.

It's not too far of a leap to make when you say Price doesn't like Cingrani to Cingrani doesn't pitch well because Price doesn't like him. I wouldn't say Cinrfani was misused earlier this year; you have to be used to be misused. He definitely should have pitched him more in April and May. When he finally did, he pitched well - for a while. Then we saw what we've seen of him pretty much all his career: If he's not getting the ball over the plate, guys are hitting the ball hard off of him.

I agree that Marquis wasn't a good choice and maybe Cingrani couldn't have done any worse. But Cingrani was coming off surgery and had (has) problems with pitch efficiency. Putting him in the bullpen was a good way to build up arm strength.

I'm not saying he won't be successful. I doubt it but it could happen. Keep him in the rotation. I doubt he'll be successful as some of the other RedsZone golden children like Brandon Claussen and Chris Reitsma.

[The Operator]

This is like a rumble where the Sharks and Jets more or less agree with each other: Cingrani has issues, but we might as well put him to the test the rest of the yearWell played sir.

[Chip R]

Madden is doing this to mess up Villareal. He does this all the time. He knows very well you can't challenge a neighborhood play. Managers should be ejected for doing stuff like that.

[Kingspoint]

Man this game is taking forever.

[Always Red]

Mr Villareal is learning how to pitch tonight.

['69]

I don't recall ever saying "Tony struggles because Price doesn't like him."

I said that Price never used Cingrani earlier in the year because he doesn't like him. Even though the guys he was using - Gregg and Badenhop - were getting their teeth kicked in every time out. Every. Single. Time.

And the guy who Price chose over Tony in the rotation - Jason Marquis - got killed nearly every time he took the mound.


And even then, when Tony got chances this year out of the pen he wasn't all that bad. He struggled with command but he was still a heeeelllll of a lot better than the dreck Price was in love with.

Sorry, but I'm not gonna make my mind up that he can't be a starter based on his first start in the big leagues since last year - especially when he was used as a reliever (when used at all) this whole season and given all of 3 starts in AAA to get stretched back out to be a starter.

But if you guys can name all these better rotation options The Reds have, I'm all ears.

I doubt Price loved Gregg and Marquis, they were on the roster and were probably healthier than Cingrani.

[Banshee]

Votto back to clogging.

[Tom Servo]

Votto back to clogging.
Too bad he isn't elite.

[The Operator]

I doubt he'll be successful as some of the other RedsZone golden children like Brandon Claussen and Chris Reitsma.Did Chris Reitsma or Brandon Claussen ever put up 100+ innings of sub-3 ERA baseball while K'ing a batter an inning?

[WrongVerb]

Gotta wonder if Villareal can keep this up for a few more seasons. He'd be a great long-man in the pen.

[Always Red]

Did Chris Reitsma or Brandon Claussen ever put up 100+ innings of sub-3 ERA baseball while K'ing a batter an inning?

Not to speak for Chip, but some of us aren't sure Tony is that pitcher anymore.

Two years ago, Latos was a stud. Last year, Cueto walked on water. Things change, especially in pitching.

[Tom Servo]

Gotta wonder if Villareal can keep this up for a few more seasons. He'd be a great long-man in the pen.
I doubt he can keep this up for a few more weeks, but he is doing yeoman's work tonight.

[Chip R]

Did Chris Reitsma or Brandon Claussen ever put up 100+ innings of sub-3 ERA baseball while K'ing a batter an inning?

He did that 2 years ago. Maybe we should bring back Jack Armstrong. He had a good rookie year too.

And Claussen and Reitsma could do no wrong either. It was never their fault. It was always someone else's fault.

[Always Red]

Gotta wonder if Villareal can keep this up for a few more seasons. He'd be a great long-man in the pen.

With Villareal, I think we should hope for a few more games of this, given his track record.

Who knows, maybe a light bulb is going on?

[Ironman92]

Thom getting creepy again

[Ironman92]

Pedro is delaying my hope of getting to see Skip pitch

[Always Red]

I want to beat Thom with a selfie stick

[Ironman92]

Everyone knows who is going to come up for the Cubs before Chapman might pitch. You know that rookie from Florence with 5 siblings and his Dad is a meany pants.

[Banshee]

Put a star by that one, great play by Frazier!

[Always Red]

Maddon outsmarting himself and Price right now.

Watch Hammel get a hit now.

- - - Updated - - -

Maddon outsmarting himself and Price right now.

Watch Hammel get a hit now.

[WrongVerb]

With Villareal, I think we should hope for a few more games of this, given his track record.

Who knows, maybe a light bulb is going on?

Guys like him are serviceable, again in the right situation.

I just think, and I know I'm not alone in this, that this pitching staff has been so mis-managed this year it's pathetic.

- - - Updated - - -


With Villareal, I think we should hope for a few more games of this, given his track record.

Who knows, maybe a light bulb is going on?

Guys like him are serviceable, again in the right situation.

I just think, and I know I'm not alone in this, that this pitching staff has been so mis-managed this year it's pathetic.

[Banshee]

The double post machine is BACK!

[Kc61]

Cubs really want this game, aggressively using pinch hitters early, so their bench is short now.

Would really like to see the Reds pull this one out.

[WrongVerb]

Echo

[Chip R]

Thom must have been sorely disappointed Schwarber didn't pinch hit there.

[757690]

He did that 2 years ago. Maybe we should bring back Jack Armstrong. He had a good rookie year too.

And Claussen and Reitsma could do no wrong either. It was never their fault. It was always someone else's fault.

Claussen and Reitsma were never good, like ever. Cingrani has put up 10 K/9 so far in his career. Claussen and Reitsma were at their best 6 K/9 guys.

I'm not much more confident than you that Cingrani can become a dominant starter, but he's nothing Claussen and Reitsma. He actually has talent, if he can harness it.

['69]

Byrd, you're not that fast x2

[BluegrassRedleg]

Byrd is not the word on the base paths today.

[Tom Servo]

Cool lets just run ourselves out of innings

[Chip R]

Not terribly excited about Jumbo in there. Hope I'm wrong.

[WrongVerb]

Can we please, please, please stop thinking of bullpen structure as "short reliever," "seventh inning guy," "eighth inning guy" and so on?

Baseball should start thinking of situations as low, medium, or high leverage. To me this is a high leverage situation.

[The Operator]

Whoa! Kyle Schwarber is up to bat!

I heard he is from Middletown!

[Tom Servo]

Stop trying to talk about the Reds pitcher Chris, Thom is busy anointing Schwarber as the second coming.

[Tom Servo]

Man, of all the pitchers to figure out how to pitch Schwarber, I wouldn't have thought it would be Jumbo.

['69]

Nice, what's up with the stare, lol

[Chip R]

I guess Babe Ruth struck out every once in a while too. Sad Thom.

[The Operator]

A fan is apparently on the field.

['69]

Show it! I enjoy a good takedown.

[Tom Servo]

Alright, which one you knuckleheads was that?

[757690]

I'm guessing it's a drunk Cubs fan.

[Chip R]

Stop trying to talk about the Reds pitcher Chris, Thom is busy anointing Schwarber as the second coming.

With Thom the emphasis is on the "coming".

[klw]

Little late but just want to say a great job done by Villareal tonight

[WrongVerb]

I'm guessing it's a drunk Cubs fan.

But you repeat yourself.

[Chip R]

Alright, which one you knuckleheads was that?

Probably Roy. He's such a troublemaker. :D

['69]

Thom's gushing has really rubbed off on Chris...Bryant has tremendous power, don't cha know.

[Always Red]

I got a kick out of the fact that they refuse to show it on tv, yet Thom and Chris gave their best play by play of the night, describing every step, jump and hop the dude made.

Thom thought he was very athletic. I'd bet he was from Middletown.

[Ironman92]

I'm guessing it's a drunk Cubs fan.

Seems redundant

['69]

Safe, but nice tag by a yoo hay neo

[BCubb2003]

Billy should have chased the guy down.

[Tom Servo]

I'm liking Jumbo 2.0 so far

[The Operator]

Jumbo K's Babe Coghlan. Coghlan is NOT happy, thinking he had ball four already.

- - - Updated - - -


I got a kick out of the fact that they refuse to show it on tv, yet Thom and Chris gave their best play by play of the night, describing every step, jump and hop the dude made.

Thom thought he was very athletic. I'd bet he was from Middletown.I bet his dad is a great guy.

[757690]

RMR might have been right about Jumbo. He's looking good since coming back.

[Tom Servo]

Thom's gushing has really rubbed off on Chris...Bryant has tremendous power, don't cha know.
In fairness, I'm kind of with Chris. I mean Schwarber's bat is impressive, but everything about Bryant is impressive.

[WrongVerb]

Jumbo K's Babe Coghlan. Coghlan is NOT happy, thinking he had ball four already.

- - - Updated - - -

I bet his dad is a great guy.

It would be awesome if he came from a big family.

[Always Red]

I just have to say, these "Trump for President" ads on the site tonight are probably enough to drive all of us to purchase the ad free site. Stroke of genius, Boss.

[Roy Tucker]

Scrappy.

[Red Raindog]

I just have to say, these "Trump for President" ads on the site tonight are probably enough to drive all of us to purchase the ad free site. Stroke of genius, Boss.

That's got to be entertaining -- / not

[Kc61]

Billy.

[SweetLou1990]

Nice double by Ham!

[WrongVerb]

Billy with 2 doubles in the same game. Wait, what?

[Tom Servo]

Yes, he's reached base 9 times today, but unfortunately he is not elite. :(

[Kc61]

Patience, Todd. Don't need to be too aggressive.

[Kingspoint]

Another impressive moment by Joey Votto.

[Always Red]

Thommy banging on the Frazier not clutch drum

[Chip R]

Scrappy.

Roy escaped!

[Roy Tucker]

C'mon Todd.

[Kingspoint]

Billy with 2 doubles in the same game. Wait, what?

One was really a triple, but they stopped Cingrani at 3rd.

[Roy Tucker]

Roy escaped!

I was imprisoned?

[SweetLou1990]

How bout every announcer has to stop with the Howard cossell Frazzzzier

[Kingspoint]

R U kidding me?

[Tom Servo]

Switched to the Cubs feed so I didn't have to listen to Thom's nonsense about Frazier not driving in runs.

And the result didn't go any better.

[BluegrassRedleg]

Good God.

[Chip R]

Bad luck there.

[Always Red]

Bruce is due

[Chip R]

I was imprisoned?

We thought you were the fan on the field.

['69]

Ruh roh

[BluegrassRedleg]

Steal home Billy.

[Kingspoint]

19 LOB by Frazier/Bruce!

[Rantly]

Schu is not fast

[SweetLou1990]

Yep, Bruce still due

[Roy Tucker]

We thought you were the fan on the field.

I got bailed out pretty quick.

[Tom Servo]

http://jerryjonestownmassacre.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/20140226-105217.jpg

[Always Red]

Who pitches the 9th?

[Chip R]

Who pitches the 9th?

Tie game at home. Chapman.

[Kingspoint]

Schu is not fast

Yes. Could have gone over and stepped on 1st and then still thrown him out at home with a tag by the Catcher.

['69]

Schu is not fast

Was he not running on contact?. No way he's that slow

[Kc61]

Switched to the Cubs feed so I didn't have to listen to Thom's nonsense about Frazier not driving in runs.

And the result didn't go any better.

Bad luck there, but Todd has a .270 OBP over the last thirty days. He's been swinging too much, needs to get more patient.

[Kingspoint]

I can't watch the top half of this inning after watching that last half for the REDS.

[757690]

Switched to the Cubs feed so I didn't have to listen to Thom's nonsense about Frazier not driving in runs.

And the result didn't go any better.

I think you're letting your hate for Thom get the best of you in this case.

Frazier has had bad luck this year when it comes to driving in runners from 3rd with less than two out. Thom has pointed that out. That's what a good announcer does. And he prefaces it with the fact that Frazier has been the Reds best hitter all year, so it's not like he's harping on the guy for it.

I want announcers to fill me in on vital and interesting stats.

[Rantly]

Was he not running on contact?. No way he's that slow

In the replay it seems like his lead was only a couple of feet and yes he looked very slow

[Chip R]

Bad luck there, but Todd has a .270 OBP over the last thirty days. He's been swinging too much, needs to get more patient.

Well, he's never been very patient.