2015-2016 European Soccer Season (EPL, Champions League, La Liga, Bundesliga, etc.)

[Yachtzee]

I thought I would get the European Soccer thread going with the seasons for the various leagues starting up in the next few weeks. I suspect most of the talk will be about the EPL, but I figured we can talk about other leagues here as well as the Champions League.

Right now I'm pretty psyched because I'm getting ready to take the family to England for the next few weeks to visit my wife's extended family. Now much of my wife's family are Liverpool fans (although most of them live not far from Norwich), but it just so happens that a close friend of my wife's family who we will be staying with is a season ticket holder for Brighton and Hove Albion. So I will be taking my boys to see Brighton and Hove Albion open their Championship campaign against Nottingham Forest. Now it's not quite EPL, but still pretty awesome. We're very excited.

In rather disappointing news, my excitement about Fox getting the rights to the Bundesliga this year has been tempered by the fact that, apparently, the brain trust at Fox Sports has decided that Bundesliga games shall be available only on Fox Sports 2 (which I only get in SD), Fox Soccer Plus, which requires me to pay $8.99/mo. to get the sports tier, and their Fox Soccer 2GO app, which requires one to pay a $19.99/mo. subscription. And here I thought the decision not to have Gus Johnson calling soccer games was a positive sign that Fox was taking the sport seriously before taking on the 2018 World Cup. Now I feel like they're just going to crap all over it and have Joe Buck and Alexi Lalas call all the games.

[BuckeyeRed27]

That is a little weird given the success NBC has had with the EPL. I'm curious to watch some German games, but I think my focus will still stay on the EPL.

Not sure we did it last year, but should we do a little EPL Top 4, Bottom 3 predictions?

[M2]

I'm beyond crushed that Real Madrid's President Florentino Perez essentially ran Iker Casillas out of town. The team has downgraded in the net and it could get ugly in the Casa Blanca.

On a separate, Joe Buck calling a soccer game is my greatest nightmare. He ruins everything.

[Chip R]

I saw where the national coach of Mexico was sacked after getting into a fight with an announcer at the Philadelphia airport.

[SunDeck]

How can I watch without cable or Satellite? Suggestions welcome. I'm assuming I need to purchase something, right?

[M2]

How can I watch without cable or Satellite? Suggestions welcome. I'm assuming I need to purchase something, right?

http://www.rojadirecta.me/

The feed quality can be spotty and sometimes you get one with way too many popups and it's tricky finding English language feeds of non-English games, but you can watch almost every televised game on the planet.

[reds1869]

In rather disappointing news, my excitement about Fox getting the rights to the Bundesliga this year has been tempered by the fact that, apparently, the brain trust at Fox Sports has decided that Bundesliga games shall be available only on Fox Sports 2 (which I only get in SD), Fox Soccer Plus, which requires me to pay $8.99/mo. to get the sports tier, and their Fox Soccer 2GO app, which requires one to pay a $19.99/mo. subscription. And here I thought the decision not to have Gus Johnson calling soccer games was a positive sign that Fox was taking the sport seriously before taking on the 2018 World Cup. Now I feel like they're just going to crap all over it and have Joe Buck and Alexi Lalas call all the games.

The coverage is actually quite a bit better than that. There are multiple games on FS1, at least one per week. If you have spanish language package you can watch more on Fox Deportes and ESPN Deportes. I wish it was as good as NBC's EPL coverage, but after years in the wilderness I'll take it as a positive first step. Granted, I'm a Bayern fan so my game is almost always on. Supporters of the upper tier teams have a good shot at a live broadcast. I just wish some of the smaller clubs would get more love.

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/thegoalkeeper/Fox-Sports-2015-16-Bundesliga-television-schedule.html

[RedTeamGo!]

+/- 2 years until DeAndre Yedlin is back playing in the MLS?

[bucksfan2]

+/- 2 years until DeAndre Yedlin is back playing in the MLS?

If he is any good, well over 2 years.

[BuckeyeRed27]

I think he'll make it at Spurs so I'll take the over. His speed is a huge factor, just has to figure out the best position for his skill set. He reminds me of Theo Walcott in that way.

[BuckeyeRed27]

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/rank?versionId=1&listId=3217
ESPN has their prediction table if you want to cast your vote for the season.

I went top 4: Arsenal, Chelsea, Man U, Man City
Bottom 3: Sunderland, Watford, Leicester

[Yachtzee]

The report here from England amongst some of the fans I've talked to is that Yedlin is one of the fastest players they've ever seen. They are actually hoping to see him play more often this season.

[Caveat Emperor]

Kickoff tomorrow for the PL.

Can. Not. Wait.

[BuckeyeRed27]

It's back! It's back!

[BuckeyeRed27]

Someone forgot to tell Arsenal that it's back.

[reds1869]

Someone forgot to tell Arsenal that it's back.

That was almost a parody of Arsenal's recent history. They'll be fine, but that was pretty embarrassing.

[thatcoolguy_22]

So I just got word I will be moving to Germany next year! My local team will be the Kaiserslautern Red Devils (Fußball-Club Kaiserslautern Die roten Teufel). They have been in the 2nd division of the Bundesliga for the last few seasons, but it will still be great having a pro team close enough for me to walk to the games. Maybe I will get lucky and they will get promoted while I'm there.

[RedTeamGo!]

So I just got word I will be moving to Germany next year! My local team will be the Kaiserslautern Red Devils (Fußball-Club Kaiserslautern Die roten Teufel). They have been in the 2nd division of the Bundesliga for the last few seasons, but it will still be great having a pro team close enough for me to walk to the games. Maybe I will get lucky and they will get promoted while I'm there.

I have been to the stadium in Kaiserslautern. It's really nice.

[reds1869]

So I just got word I will be moving to Germany next year! My local team will be the Kaiserslautern Red Devils (Fußball-Club Kaiserslautern Die roten Teufel). They have been in the 2nd division of the Bundesliga for the last few seasons, but it will still be great having a pro team close enough for me to walk to the games. Maybe I will get lucky and they will get promoted while I'm there.

I had a chance to be in Bristol during Bristol City's promotion run towards the EPL a decade or so ago. There is nothing like the energy of promotion and relegation battles. Add to that the fact that German soccer is the best in the world (just my opinion, of course) and I think you'll love it there.

[bucksfan2]

I had a chance to be in Bristol during Bristol City's promotion run towards the EPL a decade or so ago. There is nothing like the energy of promotion and relegation battles. Add to that the fact that German soccer is the best in the world (just my opinion, of course) and I think you'll love it there.

Not to start a war here, but is German soccer the best? The bundesliga is dominated by one team, Bayern Munich, who tends to buy up the best German talent. The other European leagues are pretty top heavy. The EPL seems to be the only league where there is some competition at the top.

[IslandRed]

Not to start a war here, but is German soccer the best? The bundesliga is dominated by one team, Bayern Munich, who tends to buy up the best German talent. The other European leagues are pretty top heavy. The EPL seems to be the only league where there is some competition at the top.

"Best" is subjective, I guess. It all depends on what you like to watch. England is the deepest at the top and Spain usually has the most star-studded of the superclubs. I know some people (like M2, if I remember right) have argued for Germany on the basis of an attractive style of play across the league. I don't watch enough Bundesliga to have a real opinion on it, though.

[Yachtzee]

So I just got word I will be moving to Germany next year! My local team will be the Kaiserslautern Red Devils (Fußball-Club Kaiserslautern Die roten Teufel). They have been in the 2nd division of the Bundesliga for the last few seasons, but it will still be great having a pro team close enough for me to walk to the games. Maybe I will get lucky and they will get promoted while I'm there.

Good luck. I'm envious for sure. I would love it if I had a job that would send me to Germany to live. For now I watch and listen to German TV, Movies and Radio whenever I have time to keep up my German skills. Definitely try to go to games whenever you get the chance. Even supporting a 2nd division team over there can be quite an enjoyable experience.

[Yachtzee]

"Best" is subjective, I guess. It all depends on what you like to watch. England is the deepest at the top and Spain usually has the most star-studded of the superclubs. I know some people (like M2, if I remember right) have argued for Germany on the basis of an attractive style of play across the league. I don't watch enough Bundesliga to have a real opinion on it, though.

I'd say the style of play in the Bundesliga is very entertaining. Of course my opinion is based on the Bundesliga I watched 20 years ago, so watching the Bundesliga on Fox this year will tell me if that's changed for better or for worse. From my recollection, it's more attacking and less cynical than, say Serie A. Of course, as evidenced by the fact that Bayern still has Arjen Robben, there are still those who practice the "Dark Arts" in the Bundesliga, but maybe not to the degree of other Continental Leagues to the South.

Also, I'd say that even if you remove FC Bayern from the equation, the Bundesliga retains a lot of German talent and attracts a lot of talent from other European countries, particularly from Central and Eastern Europe.

[IslandRed]

Right on cue...


If what you hope to get out of watching soccer is a dramatic title race, then the Bundesliga simply isn’t for you. But if you don’t subscribe to the “Ringz” theory of fandom, then there’s plenty to love about the German league.


http://grantland.com/the-triangle/bundesliga-2015-16-preview-bayern-munch-borussia-dortmund-germany/

[Yachtzee]

Getting today's opening match in HD on Fox Sports Ohio. Jetzt geht los!

[Yachtzee]

It's a good day for watching soccer. Right now I flipping between Arsenal/Crystal Palace on NBCSports and the Bundesliga pregame. Then you have Wolfsburg/Eintracht Frankfurt on Fox Sports 1, and Manchester City/Chelsea coming on NBCSports. Finally you have OCSC/Sounders on ESPN2 and Fire/Union on FS1. Has to be one of the most soccer-filled days on US tv outside of a World Cup.

Edit: Oh and if all the club soccer is not enough, the US Women have a Friendly against Costa Rica this afternoon.

[M2]

Chelsea off to a rocky start in the EPL - 1 win, 1 tie, 2 losses. Jose Mourinho third year syndrome setting in.

[improbus]

It's a good day for watching soccer. Right now I flipping between Arsenal/Crystal Palace on NBCSports and the Bundesliga pregame. Then you have Wolfsburg/Eintracht Frankfurt on Fox Sports 1, and Manchester City/Chelsea coming on NBCSports. Finally you have OCSC/Sounders on ESPN2 and Fire/Union on FS1. Has to be one of the most soccer-filled days on US tv outside of a World Cup.

Edit: Oh and if all the club soccer is not enough, the US Women have a Friendly against Costa Rica this afternoon.

I have often heard that the US is actually the best country in the world to watch soccer on TV. We have the easiest and most comprehensive access to every league. If you have NBS Sports, Fox Sports 1, BeIn, and ESPN, you can watch almost every relevant world soccer match. That is not the case in almost any other place.

[ukredleg]

Fantastic performance from Swansea today coming from behind to beat Man Utd. The Gomis and Ayew partnership looks lethal, they've both scored all Swansea's goals so far this season but it's far from a 2-man team. Garry Monk has done an incredible job down in South Wales.

[hebroncougar]

I'm very bummed about Liverpool's start. That awesome attacking style from 2 seasons ago seem like ages ago.

[Caveat Emperor]

Chelsea off to a rocky start in the EPL - 1 win, 1 tie, 2 losses. Jose Mourinho third year syndrome setting in.

It's amazing how dull and lifeless they look currently with possession -- not a hint of threat in most of their offensive game, and their backline is getting abused on a regular basis. Branislav Ivanovic looks like a completely different player this season, and John Terry looks like he aged a decade between May and now.

[IslandRed]

I'm very bummed about Liverpool's start. That awesome attacking style from 2 seasons ago seem like ages ago.

Losing Suarez was huge, but effectively losing Sturridge at the same time just multiplied the damage. Sterling was fine but IMO he's more of a complementary part than a lead dog, and now he's gone too. Hard to imagine any club not named Barcelona or Madrid who could lose that much offense without taking a major hit. I've been impressed with Benteke so far, but he's working with his teammates better than they're working with him.

I think they're closer to finding their best eleven than they were at this point a year ago, at least.

[hebroncougar]

Losing Suarez was huge, but effectively losing Sturridge at the same time just multiplied the damage. Sterling was fine but IMO he's more of a complementary part than a lead dog, and now he's gone too. Hard to imagine any club not named Barcelona or Madrid who could lose that much offense without taking a major hit. I've been impressed with Benteke so far, but he's working with his teammates better than they're working with him.

I think they're closer to finding their best eleven than they were at this point a year ago, at least.

Agreed. I haven't had a lot of time to read up. When is Sturridge due back?

[BuckeyeRed27]

Diego Costa is the most deplorable person currently playing soccer. Can't imagine Mike Dean is going to look back at the tape and think he officiated a good game.

I haven't been a soccer fan as long as other sports, but Chelsea have quickly got to Steelers/Cardinals level of hate for me.

[ukredleg]

Diego Costa is the most deplorable person currently playing soccer. Can't imagine Mike Dean is going to look back at the tape and think he officiated a good game.

I haven't been a soccer fan as long as other sports, but Chelsea have quickly got to Steelers/Cardinals level of hate for me.

I want to hate him, but I can't. He's a throwback to how strikers used to be and the game was filled with his kind 10-15 years ago. In today's game he's one-of-a-kind but he does take me back to the football I grew up knowing and loving, before the football we know today was sanitised beyond recognition. I guess the refs have a duty to control him and the opposition players have a duty not to fall for his winding up, as long as he gets away with it, he'll continue to get up to his antics.

[M2]

Diego Costa is the most deplorable person currently playing soccer. Can't imagine Mike Dean is going to look back at the tape and think he officiated a good game.

I haven't been a soccer fan as long as other sports, but Chelsea have quickly got to Steelers/Cardinals level of hate for me.

Mourinho and Costa are perfect for each other. Two biggest heels in pro soccer. What amazes me about Costa is refs know his act. They know what he's going to do - the elbows, the stomps, the dives with the gratuitous leg whips thrown in. One of the big arguments in Spain is when he's going to cost La Roja in a key situation.

[Caveat Emperor]

Mourinho and Costa are perfect for each other. Two biggest heels in pro soccer. What amazes me about Costa is refs know his act. They know what he's going to do - the elbows, the stomps, the dives with the gratuitous leg whips thrown in. One of the big arguments in Spain is when he's going to cost La Roja in a key situation.

I love me some Diego Costa -- and I'm not worried about a red (famous last words) because he has the innate ability to lay low for a few matches when the spotlight intensifies on him after a dust-up like this. Then, once things simmer, he's back to being a total prick and generally doing whatever he can to take a defender(s) mentally out of the game.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Costa just picked up a 3 match ban and Gabriel had his red card revoked. So basically exactly what should have happened in the game, except for the 3 points Chelsea got.

[Yachtzee]

Watching Bayern Munich v. Wolfsburg, what a crazy match! Wolfsburg was leading after one half and Munich seemed to be having problems breaking down Wolfsburg's defense. Bayern brings in Robert Lewandowski at the half and he puts in 5 goals within 15 minutes. One of the most amazing performances I have ever seen. It's like watching someone playing FIFA.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Watching Bayern Munich v. Wolfsburg, what a crazy match! Wolfsburg was leading after one half and Munich seemed to be having problems breaking down Wolfsburg's defense. Bayern brings in Robert Lewandowski at the half and he puts in 5 goals within 15 minutes. One of the most amazing performances I have ever seen. It's like watching someone playing FIFA.

I saw a highlight of the 5th goal on Facebook. Humans shouldn't be able to do that.

[westofyou]

Watching Bayern Munich v. Wolfsburg, what a crazy match! Wolfsburg was leading after one half and Munich seemed to be having problems breaking down Wolfsburg's defense. Bayern brings in Robert Lewandowski at the half and he puts in 5 goals within 15 minutes. One of the most amazing performances I have ever seen. It's like watching someone playing FIFA.

I was at this game when Oleg Salenko scored 5 goals

http://footballfanaticos.blogspot.com/2010/04/greatest-world-cup-matches-cameroon.html

[redrum]

I love me some Diego Costa -- and I'm not worried about a red (famous last words) because he has the innate ability to lay low for a few matches when the spotlight intensifies on him after a dust-up like this. Then, once things simmer, he's back to being a total prick and generally doing whatever he can to take a defender(s) mentally out of the game.

Costa and Mourinho are precisely why I went from a Chelsea fan to a Chelsea hater. Before I finally splurged for the TWC sports package I thought Chelsea was my team. Once I started watching their games and hearing the interviews I could not get past the fact that Costa is a complete dirt bag and and Mourinho was a hypocritical egomaniac. You may call it gamesmanship, but I see it as something else entirely. I still love Eden Hazard, but I can't get past those two clowns.

[Yachtzee]

I saw a highlight of the 5th goal on Facebook. Humans shouldn't be able to do that.

No kidding. I think the final breakdown was 5 goals in 9 minutes and the last one was the best. The whole second half I was afraid to turn away because I didn't want to miss a goal. The ref actually blework the whistle a few seconds shy of 90' just to put Wolfsburg out of their misery. I don't know that I've heard of a second half sub put in five goals. To do it in 9 minutes, right after coming on, is insane.

[Yachtzee]

Costa and Mourinho are precisely why I went from a Chelsea fan to a Chelsea hater. Before I finally splurged for the TWC sports package I thought Chelsea was my team. Once I started watching their games and hearing the interviews I could not get past the fact that Costa is a complete dirt bag and and Mourinho was a hypocritical egomaniac. You may call it gamesmanship, but I see it as something else entirely. I still love Eden Hazard, but I can't get past those two clowns.

When I was in England right when the season was starting, I got to see the craziness surrounding Mourinho and Chelsea first hand. They could have an entire TV network devoted to Mourinho and people would tune in to see what outrageous thing he would say or do next. I couldn't help but wonder what would happen if an MLS team were able to convince Mourinho to come stateside. Highly unlikely given the caliber of teams he usually coaches, but maybe NYCFC or the Galaxy could have a shot. As much as I hate the tactics of his teams, he would be one of the few personalities who would immediately raise the media profile of MLS because every news outlet would be there for his pressers. I would love to see him or Zlatan Ibrahimovich in the MLS just because they're such entertaining characters that would ensure the league is getting regular exposure from the sports highlight shows.

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Costa and Mourinho are precisely why I went from a Chelsea fan to a Chelsea hater. Before I finally splurged for the TWC sports package I thought Chelsea was my team. Once I started watching their games and hearing the interviews I could not get past the fact that Costa is a complete dirt bag and and Mourinho was a hypocritical egomaniac. You may call it gamesmanship, but I see it as something else entirely. I still love Eden Hazard, but I can't get past those two clowns.

When I was in England right when the season was starting, I got to see the craziness surrounding Mourinho and Chelsea first hand. They could have an entire TV network devoted to Mourinho and people would tune in to see what outrageous thing he would say or do next. I couldn't help but wonder what would happen if an MLS team were able to convince Mourinho to come stateside. Highly unlikely given the caliber of teams he usually coaches, but maybe NYCFC or the Galaxy could have a shot. As much as I hate the tactics of his teams, he would be one of the few personalities who would immediately raise the media profile of MLS because every news outlet would be there for his pressers. I would love to see him or Zlatan Ibrahimovich in the MLS just because they're such entertaining characters that would ensure the league is getting regular exposure from the sports highlight shows.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Matthieu Flamini. Capital One Cup legend.

[ukredleg]

During Mourinho's first spell at Chelsea I loved him, he was a breath of fresh air compared to the Fergusons and Wengers knocking around the league. His press conferences were entertaining, he'd have a laugh and a joke with the media which had them falling at his feet and he was great value for neutrals. Now, it just seems like the life has been sucked out of him for some reason. He's all serious, seems to have lost his sense of humour and that charm he used to have. The media still follow him around like a lapdog over here because they're still hoping for the old Mourinho to turn up. I've got a new press conference favourite; Louis van Gaal.

[BuckeyeRed27]

If the Champions League Knockout Stage falls in the woods, but no EPL teams are in it, does it make a sound?

[M2]

If the Champions League Knockout Stage falls in the woods, but no EPL teams are in it, does it make a sound?

Makes a huge sound, but EPL teams aren't going to want to hear it. The top teams are struggling, which oddly makes the league itself way more interesting. Italy could take England's spot as the 3rd best league in Europe after this season, which would cost the EPL a Champions League slot in the 2017-18 season. It could all come down to Tottenham and Liverpool's performances in the Europa League.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Makes a huge sound, but EPL teams aren't going to want to hear it. The top teams are struggling, which oddly makes the league itself way more interesting. Italy could take England's spot as the 3rd best league in Europe after this season, which would cost the EPL a Champions League slot in the 2017-18 season. It could all come down to Tottenham and Liverpool's performances in the Europa League.

Well at this rate Arsenal, Chelsea and City are going to be in the Europa too.

The competitiveness of the EPL is probably hurting them in Europe to some degree, but games like today for Arsenal are just baffling.

[bucksfan2]

Makes a huge sound, but EPL teams aren't going to want to hear it. The top teams are struggling, which oddly makes the league itself way more interesting. Italy could take England's spot as the 3rd best league in Europe after this season, which would cost the EPL a Champions League slot in the 2017-18 season. It could all come down to Tottenham and Liverpool's performances in the Europa League.

Admittedly I only watch a little international soccer. I try and watch Man U play and then if I may have the TV on another game as I take care of my girls. I may tune in from time to time and tend to rewind to watch the goals if I hear one is scored, but I don't watch closely nor to I understand all the ins and outs of soccer. But from my perspective the level of English talent on the top tier EPL clubs is lacking. The top rumored about transfers haven't been English in the past number of years.

But I tend to think the overall competitiveness of the EPL does hurt the league. If you look at the destinations for your big starts its Barca and Real in Spain, Bayern in Germany, and PSG in France. In England you have the likes of United and City, Chelsea, and Arsenal competing for the big names.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Admittedly I only watch a little international soccer. I try and watch Man U play and then if I may have the TV on another game as I take care of my girls. I may tune in from time to time and tend to rewind to watch the goals if I hear one is scored, but I don't watch closely nor to I understand all the ins and outs of soccer. But from my perspective the level of English talent on the top tier EPL clubs is lacking. The top rumored about transfers haven't been English in the past number of years.

But I tend to think the overall competitiveness of the EPL does hurt the league. If you look at the destinations for your big starts its Barca and Real in Spain, Bayern in Germany, and PSG in France. In England you have the likes of United and City, Chelsea, and Arsenal competing for the big names.

The big money transfers are usually going to those names you mentioned. Bayern, Real and Barca are certainly better from a talent stand point than any team in England at the moment. The EPL has had a lot of money come in from TV the last few years and it has benefited the middle teams more. You saw teams like Stoke and Swansea bring in players this year that 5 years ago wouldn't have come. I think that is why you are seeing a little more parity and it is exciting from week to week, but it isn't helping in Europe for sure.

[M2]

The competitiveness of the EPL is probably hurting them in Europe to some degree, but games like today for Arsenal are just baffling.

That's the talking point they use in England, but the upper middle of other leagues have been superior to the EPL for a long time. Spain dominates the Europa League (and the UEFA Cup before it). Portugal has done well there too. Germany has been the most competitive major league on the continent in terms of churn in the standings from year to year. England gained its position as one of the very top leagues based on a few extremely dominant teams. I think we've seen them fall back to the pack in the EPL and it seems like we're getting deeper into an era where development and smart purchases counters big purchases.


Admittedly I only watch a little international soccer. I try and watch Man U play and then if I may have the TV on another game as I take care of my girls. I may tune in from time to time and tend to rewind to watch the goals if I hear one is scored, but I don't watch closely nor to I understand all the ins and outs of soccer. But from my perspective the level of English talent on the top tier EPL clubs is lacking. The top rumored about transfers haven't been English in the past number of years.

But I tend to think the overall competitiveness of the EPL does hurt the league. If you look at the destinations for your big starts its Barca and Real in Spain, Bayern in Germany, and PSG in France. In England you have the likes of United and City, Chelsea, and Arsenal competing for the big names.

I think England's problem is development. There's so much talk of transfers in the EPL because the big teams struggle to develop talent. Even the ManU pipeline has dried up (and historically that's been the key to its success).

Barca spent to the moon for Suarez and Neymar, but they also produce an absurd amount of talent. Bayern's far more homegrown that it gets credit for being. Madrid is the one team that truly believes in shopping for success, though it stayed away from major purchases this summer and it's freaky good at making long-term investments. Most other clubs are happy to get 2-3 years from a transfer. Madrid buys decades.

Anyway, I think the EPL operates with more cash than brains these days.

[bucksfan2]

That's the talking point they use in England, but the upper middle of other leagues have been superior to the EPL for a long time. Spain dominates the Europa League (and the UEFA Cup before it). Portugal has done well there too. Germany has been the most competitive major league on the continent in terms of churn in the standings from year to year. England gained its position as one of the very top leagues based on a few extremely dominant teams. I think we've seen them fall back to the pack in the EPL and it seems like we're getting deeper into an era where development and smart purchases counters big purchases.

In regards to Europa, how much of that do we have to consider 4 EPL teams make the Champions League as opposed to what, 2 from Portugal?




I think England's problem is development. There's so much talk of transfers in the EPL because the big teams struggle to develop talent. Even the ManU pipeline has dried up (and historically that's been the key to its success).

Barca spent to the moon for Suarez and Neymar, but they also produce an absurd amount of talent. Bayern's far more homegrown that it gets credit for being. Madrid is the one team that truly believes in shopping for success, though it stayed away from major purchases this summer and it's freaky good at making long-term investments. Most other clubs are happy to get 2-3 years from a transfer. Madrid buys decades.

Anyway, I think the EPL operates with more cash than brains these days.

I guess way I look at it, if you are a star or a junior star in Spain, Germany, or France you are going to Barca, Real, Bayern, or PSG. There is a guy at work who is a big Bayern fan and I joke with him all the time that when a player in the Bundesliga gets good Bayern buys them up. They lose a game and they decide to buy all the best players from the opposing team. While it is a little facetious, Bayern has a strong draw to most strong German internationals, and we may be in a period where Germany dominates international soccer.

[M2]

In regards to Europa, how much of that do we have to consider 4 EPL teams make the Champions League as opposed to what, 2 from Portugal?

Some, but not much. Portuguese teams are playing with microscopic budgets compared to EPL clubs. They're thriving by identifying high-end talent sooner than EPL teams. They scout better. Porto and Benfica are the only two Portuguese clubs that have something like an EPL wage bill. When Sporting or Braga make a run, they are really punching above their weight.

Anyway, Spain dominates the Europa and they're sending 4 teams to the UCL (5 this year because Sevilla got a UCL slot for winning the Europa).

On the upside for England, the Manchesters beat German opponents today.

[Yachtzee]

The EPL may be a victim of the massive amounts of money the league is bringing in. When I was in England over the summer, I heard a number of complaints about how EPL teams seem to be spending money like it's Monopoly money. Often cited were the money Man City spent for Raheem Sterling and Kevin De Bruyne, who are both good players, but a lot of people felt were not nearly worth the transfer fees. Even teams at the bottom of the table are able to afford paying out millions in transfer fees. And when a team sells a player for a huge fee, they end up blowing it all by trying to buy up anyone they can get their hands on. The example there is to look at where Spurs spent all that money they got for Gareth Bale. A lot of EPL teams have seen quite a bit of roster churn as they buy players, those players don't work out, they sell them or loan them out, and buy new players. Some of these bought players don't even get more than one season to integrate into the team before they're being shopped and replaced.

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In other news, Brendan Rodgers got the ax today.

[Yachtzee]

Watched "Der Klassiker" between FC Bayern and Borussia Dortmund today. Between their performances in the Bundesliga and the Champions League in the past few weeks, I don't think there's a team in Europe playing better than Bayern Munich right now, and Lewandowski is on fire.

[BuckeyeRed27]

When Munich is boat racing Arsenal in a few weeks I'm going to try and think about how I was feeling in the first half today.

[IslandRed]

In other news, Brendan Rodgers got the ax today.

A little surprised about the timing, but it had taken on an air of inevitability. The only thing that could have saved him was a run back into the Champions League, and I don't think they have the roster to do it.

Speaking of the roster, I wonder what impact Liverpool's business model, especially the transfer committee, will have on their pursuit of a new coach. It's hard to see a Klopp or Ancelotti level of coach signing on if he doesn't have final say on his players.

[Yachtzee]

A little surprised about the timing, but it had taken on an air of inevitability. The only thing that could have saved him was a run back into the Champions League, and I don't think they have the roster to do it.

Speaking of the roster, I wonder what impact Liverpool's business model, especially the transfer committee, will have on their pursuit of a new coach. It's hard to see a Klopp or Ancelotti level of coach signing on if he doesn't have final say on his players.

Looks like Klopp is the favorite. Also sounds like there are rumors linking Sunderland and Bob Bradley.

[IslandRed]

Looks like Klopp is the favorite. Also sounds like there are rumors linking Sunderland and Bob Bradley.

I liked Rodgers, but if Klopp's the guy, this was a no-brainer. Despite my skepticism about the roster being Champions League quality, they're as well off as anyone else competing for that last slot, should Chelsea not regain form.

[OldRightHander]

Klopp has agreed to a three year deal, press conference scheduled for tomorrow.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Klopp has agreed to a three year deal, press conference scheduled for tomorrow.

Really big for Liverpool. I always hoped he would be the guy to replace Wenger at some point.

[Yachtzee]

Watching Liverpool play Spurs at White Hart Lane in Klopp's debut. Liverpool is looking feisty.

[OldRightHander]

Watching Liverpool play Spurs at White Hart Lane in Klopp's debut. Liverpool is looking feisty.

A goal would have been nice, but I think things might be headed in the right direction. My wife's cousin almost netted one, getting the crossbar instead. That would have been something.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Arsenal 2 Bayern 0

I can't believe that happened.

[M2]

Arsenal 2 Bayern 0

I can't believe that happened.

It's very Arsenal. They pull out huge wins when all hope seems lost and they lose gimme games just when they seem invincible.

[BuckeyeRed27]

It's very Arsenal. They pull out huge wins when all hope seems lost and they lose gimme games just when they seem invincible.

Seems different though. Out scored Man U and Bayern 5-0 in the last two weeks. Cech seems to make a big difference defensively.

This win opens up the Champions League again even if they get beat in Munich.

[M2]

Seems different though.

Could be. No reason Arsenal can't win the EPL. They've got two major developments: Coquelin might be the DM they've needed ever since Patrick Vieira left and Bellerin gives them the attack-minded halfback they've lacked since Ashley Cole moved to Chelsea.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Could be. No reason Arsenal can't win the EPL. They've got two major developments: Coquelin might be the DM they've needed ever since Patrick Vieira left and Bellerin gives them the attack-minded halfback they've lacked since Ashley Cole moved to Chelsea.

I'm all in on Bellerin, he's great. I like Coquelin, but I don't love him. If there was one upgrade to splash some money on it would be that spot.

[M2]

Leicester in 1st place in the EPL 1/3 of the way into the season? Madness. Have to figure the Manchesters and Arsenal will blow past them soon enough, but it's a great story. Spurs, Everton and Liverpool are rounding into form as well. With Chelsea mired in 15th, it's going to have climb over some very good clubs if it wants to finish in the top four.

[paintmered]

Chelsea 0 - 1 Bournemouth

Someone check in on CE to make sure he's okay.

[M2]

Man U is out of the Champions League. Wolfsburg and PSV took the top two slots in the group. Ouch.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Man U is out of the Champions League. Wolfsburg and PSV took the top two slots in the group. Ouch.

Chelsea and Arsenal are anything but safe tomorrow too. Could be a Europa League party in the EPL this year.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Arsenal and Chelsea both survive to the knock out rounds.
Hat trick for Giroud, first every for Arsenal, nice time to find that form.

[IslandRed]

Two pieces of news today:

1. Jose Mourinho sacked by Chelsea.

There's no quick trigger like soccer superclub quick trigger.

2. At the request of U.S. officials, Switzerland has frozen some FIFA bank accounts involving millions of francs.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-35119240

[BuckeyeRed27]

The Mourninho news is crazy, but their whole season has been that way. How do you go from winning the title to legitimately being in a relegation battle with the exact same team? I can see falling off a bit and coming in 7th or something, but they are in real trouble.

[Yachtzee]

This season in the EPL has been crazy and it looks to get crazier with the January transfer window coming up. With all the issues the big 5 EPL teams and Real Madrid have been having, I expect there will be some panic buying going on. Of course, with the announcement that Pep is leaving Bayern Munich, it should be interesting to watch the feeding frenzy between Man U, Man City, and Chelsea to see who can secure his services.

[Big Red Smokey]

Monster win for Arsenal on Monday. Feels like the year

[thatcoolguy_22]

I've never had anything against Chelsea, but I really want to see them get relegated. The idea of a world class team in the 2nd division sounds fun.

[M2]

Monster win for Arsenal on Monday. Feels like the year

I'm waiting to see if it still feels like the year in March. I thought it looked like Arsenal's year coming into the season, but they famously struggle late in the campaign. The good news is the league is breaking their way.

Chelsea is already out of the title picture. Too far back, too many teams to leapfrog. Liverpool has been too inconsistent. ManU remains mathematically viable, but it doesn't have the bullets in its gun to win out. Unless it buys a world class striker to carry the scoring load I don't think it's got a chance. We at least have to pay lip service to Leicester at the moment, but it's hard to believe it will take this run all the way to the title (though it certainly can dream on top four). Man City is the main contender but it's open in the back without Kompany.

The sleeper might be Tottenham. Spurs have just about everything you need to win a title. If some players not named Harry Kane start scoring goals (Dele Alli looking most likely), that team is going to make a serious push.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Arsenal has the most talent and is going to be getting a lot of depth when the current injured players come back, plus maybe adding a piece in January transfer window. It's probably good for the title hopes that they drew Barca in the Champions League and are likely to get bounced after 2 games, less to worry about.

I've only watched Spurs play once and they looked just ok, but they certainly have been coming on a bit of late.

[IslandRed]

I'm waiting to see if it still feels like the year in March. I thought it looked like Arsenal's year coming into the season, but they famously struggle late in the campaign. The good news is the league is breaking their way.

Chelsea is already out of the title picture. Too far back, too many teams to leapfrog. Liverpool has been too inconsistent. ManU remains mathematically viable, but it doesn't have the bullets in its gun to win out. Unless it buys a world class striker to carry the scoring load I don't think it's got a chance. We at least have to pay lip service to Leicester at the moment, but it's hard to believe it will take this run all the way to the title (though it certainly can dream on top four). Man City is the main contender but it's open in the back without Kompany.

The sleeper might be Tottenham. Spurs have just about everything you need to win a title. If some players not named Harry Kane start scoring goals (Dele Alli looking most likely), that team is going to make a serious push.

Agreed with pretty much all of that. Every team has a pretty good reason why it won't win the title, but one of them will anyway. Might be one of those "the one that loses it least" seasons.

[paintmered]

Everton and Stoke may have been the most fun match of the season so far.

[M2]

Dele Alli with the goal of the decade so far. Spurs have come up with a ridiculous amount of young talent the past few years.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmmoWhk4PMc

[Yachtzee]

Dele Alli with the goal of the decade so far. Spurs have come up with a ridiculous amount of young talent the past few years.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmmoWhk4PMc

Between that and the Norwich-Liverpool match, it's been a pretty crazy day for football.

[bucksfan2]

I thoroughly enjoyed the second half of the Arsenal Chelsea game. It was fun watching a short handed Arsenal try and try and try again to score an equalizer.

[BuckeyeRed27]

I thoroughly enjoyed the second half of the Arsenal Chelsea game. It was fun watching a short handed Arsenal try and try and try again to score an equalizer.

I would have enjoyed it more had one or two of those attempts worked. It would have been great if we had played Chelsea on level terms at least once this year. Mertesacker's red in this game was at least legit. Arsenal had a real chance the last 6 games to get some separation and instead find themselves back 3 points and tied with City. I still think they will pull it off, but it will be a lot more interesting now than it could/should have been.

[BuckeyeRed27]

http://www.espnfc.us/liverpool/story/2803808/jamie-carragher-walks-out-with-liverpool-over-ticket-prices

This Liverpool ticket price thing is a bit fascinating to me. It is one of those aspects of American vs. European sports that is just different. I'm not saying that we like ticket prices going up in the US, but the reasons and coverage of it are just so different. Ticket prices are going up because ownership feels the market demands will allow for it and they are probably right. The fans take it so personally, you just never see that with American fans.

[tomnuetten]

and the pricing in the premier league is already unbelievable for german fans. It is also a reason why the atmosphere in british stadiums are terrible. People can´t afford to go to every game, away games are even more expensive.

I´m a big soccer fan, I follow a club. It is a 6 hour drive for homegames (I´m only attending 2-3 a season) and I´ll drive to 5-6 away games during a season. It is just a great thing to do and the atmosphere is fantastic (completley different from us sport)

If the club I´m following would raise the money the way the premier league does, they would hear a lot from the club members (the club is owned by the fans, like myself). We protested against a name change of the stadium aswell. They had the idea to get some extra money for selling the name rights. Not doable with our fans...

I hate the way european soccer is going. Clubs selling themeselvs to single owners. Teams that never had any success have twice the money and are on top of the league. The real fans will depart from the stadiums, found their own clubs in the bottom leagues (there are multiple of those teams already, austria salzburg (fans hated the new red bull salzburg and started a own club), fc united of manchester, ...)...

I hope the german league stays within the 50+1 rule so that no owner is allowed to own more than 50% of a club, but with all the money Paris or the premier league hast, they will at some point drop this rule to stay competitive. That is the moment I will most likely care about the lower leagues more than I do about the first league and champions league.

Football without its fans is nothing

[BuckeyeRed27]

Thanks for responding Tom, I was hoping you would.

I can see the point when the fans have ownership in the team like you described. Obviously ownership can't ignore fans or like you said they will go away, but I can't imagine that really happening at a club like Liverpool. If they charge too much for tickets and no one buys them the prices will come down. They aren't going to go down because the fans get pissed about it because I'll be most of those fans that walked out are going to renew their season tickets at the new prices.

I always have wondered how much size and the focus have to do with fandom. Obviously in the US there are the four major sports and soccer is growing as a minor 5th. Many cities have 3 or 4 sports teams, but only one or maybe two in each sport. London for example at any given time has 4 to 6 Premier League teams, plus another 10-12 that are in the next two tiers. Also when soccer season is over, that's pretty much it for 4 months. I think this level of competition and focus will naturally keep ticket prices lower, since there are a lot of alternatives, but it also makes the fans feel like they really own the club since it isn't their cities club, but literally their neighborhood club.

[tomnuetten]

They could increase the prices even more and people would come to the games. The fans protesting did buy tickets aswell (they went out of the stadium in the 77minute)

A lot of manchester united fans hated the way the club went (ticket prices, team decisions etc.) and after the Glazer takeover they decided to found a new club fc united of manchester. This club is run by its members (democratically). Playing in the 6th league in england.

In the same year fans of Austria Salzburg founded a new club because they hated the decision to sell themself towards red bull. They are currently playing in the 2nd league in austria.

In both cases thousand former fans decided to keep away, but it didn´t affect the amount of people going to the stadiums. They were just different kind of "fans". Now there are sitting lots of business men who use the game to find new partners, talk about the business, eat something and drink champagne...

the atmosphere changed, the amount of money the team/owners got, didn´t change at all. In fact they do change the seatings (more and more VIP and less standing room)... I just don´t like it.


there are multiple reasons that fans are so passionate with their teams. Soccer is without a doubt the most famous sport in europe => the biggest thing in media is soccer, people often don´t have multiple sports they just love soccer. Another reason is that those countries are very small => you have close rivals, you can drive withing 6 hours to almost every away game, you can afford to go to the stadium (in germany) even if you are a student.... And you can be a club member and be a real part of the club. Often times you can play for the team (in the lower leagues) yourself. You can vote the managment board (?)...

that does help to bind someone on a team. You don´t change your teams and even if your team is going down (in a lower league) you´ll stick with them and support them.

I´ve got two teams I really love. Both are playing in the 2nd league and have chances to get in the first league again...

video that shows st pauli supporters


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMxba4O3gj8

15 min report about my fav. club (in english and it is about all the topics I mentioned above ;) ) It is not a bad one but could have been done better...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzhEt7VXS_c

I know that most likely none of you will watch the videos I posted, but I´m just very passionate about this/my club and the things they fight and stand for (left wing, antifacist team)...

there is also a report about union berlin, they built and own their own stadium.
2500 fans decided to built the stadium themself. They worked 140.000 hours to built the stadium. They used their holidays to work hours and hours for free for the club.. They are passionate ;)

[reds1869]

I was raised a Bayern supporter by my mother; I know many people don't like them but I come by my fandom honestly and I care deeply. I've tried "adopting" clubs in other leagues and have found I just can't care in the long run. Being a fan is in your blood, and as they say you don't choose your club. All that is my way of getting around to saying how much I admire St. Pauli and the amazing culture there. The German way of doing things allows for that type of culture where the English way does not. I fear that too much money in the German game will change the culture and I hope my club does not precipitate the changes. It is already bad enough that they are considering changing the schedule.

[tomnuetten]

"fun fact":

the ultras of bayern munich (schickeria) and ultras from sankt pauli (usp) are friends and visit eachothers game. So when I go to Sankt Pauli games there are alway fans of bayern munich in attendance (the same is true at bayern games)...

[reds1869]

"fun fact":

the ultras of bayern munich (schickeria) and ultras from sankt pauli (usp) are friends and visit eachothers game. So when I go to Sankt Pauli games there are alway fans of bayern munich in attendance (the same is true at bayern games)...

Cool.

[Yachtzee]

They could increase the prices even more and people would come to the games. The fans protesting did buy tickets aswell (they went out of the stadium in the 77minute)

A lot of manchester united fans hated the way the club went (ticket prices, team decisions etc.) and after the Glazer takeover they decided to found a new club fc united of manchester. This club is run by its members (democratically). Playing in the 6th league in england.

In the same year fans of Austria Salzburg founded a new club because they hated the decision to sell themself towards red bull. They are currently playing in the 2nd league in austria.

In both cases thousand former fans decided to keep away, but it didn´t affect the amount of people going to the stadiums. They were just different kind of "fans". Now there are sitting lots of business men who use the game to find new partners, talk about the business, eat something and drink champagne...

the atmosphere changed, the amount of money the team/owners got, didn´t change at all. In fact they do change the seatings (more and more VIP and less standing room)... I just don´t like it.


there are multiple reasons that fans are so passionate with their teams. Soccer is without a doubt the most famous sport in europe => the biggest thing in media is soccer, people often don´t have multiple sports they just love soccer. Another reason is that those countries are very small => you have close rivals, you can drive withing 6 hours to almost every away game, you can afford to go to the stadium (in germany) even if you are a student.... And you can be a club member and be a real part of the club. Often times you can play for the team (in the lower leagues) yourself. You can vote the managment board (?)...

that does help to bind someone on a team. You don´t change your teams and even if your team is going down (in a lower league) you´ll stick with them and support them.

I´ve got two teams I really love. Both are playing in the 2nd league and have chances to get in the first league again...

video that shows st pauli supporters


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMxba4O3gj8

15 min report about my fav. club (in english and it is about all the topics I mentioned above ;) ) It is not a bad one but could have been done better...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzhEt7VXS_c

I know that most likely none of you will watch the videos I posted, but I´m just very passionate about this/my club and the things they fight and stand for (left wing, antifacist team)...

there is also a report about union berlin, they built and own their own stadium.
2500 fans decided to built the stadium themself. They worked 140.000 hours to built the stadium. They used their holidays to work hours and hours for free for the club.. They are passionate ;)

Nice videos. I really like FC Sankt Pauli and I like to see them do well. Regarding Austria Salzburg, I am a big fan of Austria Salzburg from when I lived there for two years at the time when they were at the height of their greatness, making the UEFA Cup finals in 1994 and the Champions League group stage the following season. So when I found out Red Bull had bought the club and threw away the old history of the team, I was gutted. I've since been following the rise of the new SV Austria Salzburg, and was hoping they would be able to do well enough to stay up and grow big enough to get promotion to the Austrian Bundesliga (how awesome would that be to stick it to Red Bull). Now I just hope they're able to survive the season with all the financial pressures they've been put under. I'm also a Bayern fan, mainly because I fell in love with Munich when I visited and for years Champions League was just about the only I could get on TV over here, so I would pull for FC Bayern to beat the Italians, Spanish and English. And now this season I've enjoyed watching the Bundesliga as a whole. The German stadiums have such a great atmosphere and I just love the style of play.

I actually went to England last summer to visit my wife's family and we got to take in the season opener for Brighton and Hove Albion against Nottingham Forest. I found it amazing that, among my wife's family members and friends who follow EPL teams, Liverpool, Man U, Tottenham, Crystal Palace, Arsenal,... the only members of her family who had actually gone to a game in person were my wife's cousins who are in their 50s. They went to Anfield once for her cousin's birthday and they couldn't even buy 4 tickets to sit together, so they had to split up 2 and 2 and sit in different sections. My wife's other cousins who are Tottenham fans were able to go to a training session once. They all say the same thing, EPL is just out of the budget for most middle class fans. Meanwhile, our friends who live down by Brighton have season tickets for BHAFC. Being in the Championship means ticket prices are a much more reasonable 20 pounds per ticket, and the stadium was really nice. I really got the impression that the large degree of foreign ownership in the EPL has really started to turn off the regular fans, if only because they seem more interested in bringing in as much money as they can to buy foreign players and "promote the brand," but really don't do as much to promote the long-term health of the club by building the youth academies and supporting the relationship with the local community.

[M2]

Monster Sunday coming up in the EPL. 1st place Leicester at 3rd place Arsenal. 2nd place Tottenham at 4th place Man City. I know everyone's thinking this has got to be Arsenal's year, but Tottenham plays the stiffest defense in the league and has shown the knack for getting late goals. This could come down to the two of England's bitterest rivals.

[IslandRed]

I'm a casual Liverpool fan, and Klopp's eventual roster makeover is about all that's worth talking about at the moment, which is why I'm hoping Leicester City holds on and wins the title. I know Arsenal and Tottenham would make good stories also, but a Leicester City title would be just about the most improbable championship anyone's ever seen.

[tomnuetten]

I like tottenham => I´d be happy with them playing in the championsleague and if they can be above arsenal at the end of the season everything is fine for me ;)

[Yachtzee]

Speaking of FC Sankt Pauli, this is what they wore today I believe

10393

Translation: "No Football for the Faschists"

I'd love to get one of those shirts.

[Yachtzee]

Man United is looking one step closers to the end of the Louis Van Gaal erase and the beginning of the Jose Mourinho era. Can I just say the managerial hijinks in the EPL are almost as enthralling as the play on the field. If the MLS ever got one of these guys, it would ensure that MLS pressers would always get coverage on ESPN, because you never know what these guys are going to say, but you know they won't stick to the usual platitudes.

[tomnuetten]

Speaking of FC Sankt Pauli, this is what they wore today I believe

10393

Translation: "No Football for the Faschists"

I'd love to get one of those shirts.

yes they had this jersey yesterday against leipzig. They have to same logo painted accross the stadium...

They also have the rainbow colors on the away jerseys as a sign against homophobia...

[BuckeyeRed27]

I can't handle that type of emotional roller coaster at 4am! Great win Gunners!

[IslandRed]

That was insane. Leicester was 30 seconds away from holding on for the point, and a guy gives away a free kick for absolutely no useful purpose.

On the plus side, if they can shake this one off they're still in good shape. Two points on top and they're done playing their title challengers.

[M2]

That was insane. Leicester was 30 seconds away from holding on for the point, and a guy gives away a free kick for absolutely no useful purpose.

On the plus side, if they can shake this one off they're still in good shape. Two points on top and they're done playing their title challengers.

I would assume one or both of Arsenal and Tottenham is going to have a torrid finish. It wouldn't shock me if one of those clubs can take close to 30 points from their final 12 league games (Spurs have taken 25 points from their last 10 games). Leicester still has to travel to ManU and Chelsea as well as Watford and Palace. Everton and Southampton will be tough games to win, and teams fighting to avoid relegation are fierce opponents as the season nears the end.

Leicester should finish top four, probably need 10 points to cinch it, but taking the league is still a huge mountain to climb.

[IslandRed]

One other variable -- between the cup competitions and Europe, the other teams in the top three have potentially twice as many games left to play as Leicester. I guess whether that's good or bad remains to be seen, but for a club like LC without a lot of depth, I'm thinking that playing once a week and being able to throw their best eleven out there every time is going to help them avoid the cliff-fall.

At the very least, it looks very good for someone besides the usual three recent suspects to win, and that's keeping it interesting for me.

[tomnuetten]

as a tottenham "supporter" I know that they will breakdown at some point. They will (sadly) land behind arsenal again => everyone else beside arsenal winning the league is fine for me

[westofyou]

as a tottenham "supporter" I know that they will breakdown at some point. They will (sadly) land behind arsenal again => everyone else beside arsenal winning the league is fine for me

Perhaps, but it's quite the ride is it it not?

I know I'm enjoying it

[tomnuetten]

Perhaps, but it's quite the ride is it it not?

I know I'm enjoying it

yes it is really fun... they fight for eachother, no big dramas... It´s a great season so far

[BuckeyeRed27]

Oh Arsenal.....

[Yachtzee]

Okay. I've been generally satisfied with Fox Sports' coverage of the Bundesliga, but today is a mistake I just can't wrap my head around. I am raging right now. "Der Klassiker," the match up between Bayern Munich and Borussia Dortmund, is nowhere to be found on TV. FS1, FS2, FSOH, are all filled up with NASCAR or College Basketball and Fox Soccer Plus, their channel dedicated to soccer, is showing a repeat of the USWNT v. Jamaica. One of the biggest games of the Bundesliga Season and it's not being carried live? Unforgivable!

And of course right after I post this, I cycled through every Fox-owned channel and found it on FX. So looks like it's more of an issue of Time Warner Cable not updating their guide to reflect the change of channels.

[improbus]

This Leicester story is beyond crazy and impossible. I have been struggling to find a domestic analogy. You need an uncapped league with a team that barely saved itself from relegation beating juggernauts that spend more on their fired managers than Leicester does on all of their transfer fees. I just can't believe it.

[BuckeyeRed27]

This Leicester story is beyond crazy and impossible. I have been struggling to find a domestic analogy. You need an uncapped league with a team that barely saved itself from relegation beating juggernauts that spend more on their fired managers than Leicester does on all of their transfer fees. I just can't believe it.

They have 7 games or 21 points left and probably need 13 of them to be safe to hold off Spurs and Arsenal. They probably have the most difficult schedule left on paper, but they do have some wiggle room.

There is no direct domestic comparison. Probably the closet you could get would be something like Akron winning the CFB Playoff.

[improbus]

The only analogy would be watching an unaffiliated Toledo Mud Hens join MLB and then winning the World Series in their second year.

[IslandRed]

The parallels are far from exact, but purely on "couldn't have seen that coming" value, the best I can come up with is: Jacksonville Jaguars making the 1996 AFC Championship Game as a second-year expansion team.

[Yachtzee]

This Leicester story is beyond crazy and impossible. I have been struggling to find a domestic analogy. You need an uncapped league with a team that barely saved itself from relegation beating juggernauts that spend more on their fired managers than Leicester does on all of their transfer fees. I just can't believe it.

I liken to a Mid-major sitting atop the College Football Playoff Rankings with only a few weeks left to play.

[reds1869]

The EPL is not my favorite league, but this Leicester story is fantastic. I hope they pull it off. English football needs them to.

[bucksfan2]

The EPL is not my favorite league, but this Leicester story is fantastic. I hope they pull it off. English football needs them to.

I have watched Leicester a few times this season. Every time I watch them I wonder how they are doing it, they don't play a very attractive kind of soccer, it can get sloppy at times, then all of a sudden they score a goal late and win. Its a recipe they believe in and a recipe that is working right now. I hope they hold on because they are the ultimate long shot, those stories are great to watch.

[toledodan]

anybody going to chicago to see Bayern Munich in July?

[Yachtzee]

anybody going to chicago to see Bayern Munich in July?

I really want to go. Not sure if I can yet though.

[Big Red Smokey]

Looks like I'm going to the MLS All-Star Game. My BIL got the option to buy SRO tickets. So gonna head out to California for the Arsenal double.

[improbus]

I'm a little nervous to pull the trigger and go to some of those summer games. They are right after the World Cup and I get the feeling many of the best players will either stay home or play very limited minutes.

[Yachtzee]

I'm a little nervous to pull the trigger and go to some of those summer games. They are right after the World Cup and I get the feeling many of the best players will either stay home or play very limited minutes.

The Euros and Copa America Centenario will have been over for about 3 weeks by then. Teams might not travel with those recovering from injuries, but I expect teams to travel with most of their stars. I just wouldn't expect to see them play a full 90.

[Yachtzee]

So whose got the soccer on today? I'm watching Bayern Munich take on Eintracht Frankfurt right now, then plan on catching El Clasico this afternoon, followed by taking my son to his final indoor game before outdoor starts, and finishing with Crew SC at FC Dallas.

[hebroncougar]

So whose got the soccer on today? I'm watching Bayern Munich take on Eintracht Frankfurt right now, then plan on catching El Clasico this afternoon, followed by taking my son to his final indoor game before outdoor starts, and finishing with Crew SC at FC Dallas.

I'm taking in Norwich vs. Newcastle.......relegation battle. Then I'll be all over Liverpool vs. Tottenham

[BuckeyeRed27]

Watching the Gunners take the next step toward winning 9 in a row right now. Galaxy vs Vancouver for the night cap later.

[hebroncougar]

Wow.........what a Norwich/Newcastle game.

[BlackPete Ibold]

El Clasico at 2:30, FF at 6 and 9...

Gonna be a long day on the couch perfecting my butt groove!

[improbus]

Leicester win again. 1-0 again. They are 7 points up. I just can't fathom it.

[tomnuetten]

Leicester win again. 1-0 again. They are 7 points up. I just can't fathom it.

this should be it, but wow they did get lucky... should have been a penalty and red card against them (was still tied at this point and leicester defender used his ellbow to save a goal against them)...

Barca with a loss at the perfect time for them... right before playing in the CL against atletico they lost the classico... this should wake them up, they didn´t play that good the past few games...

[improbus]

Leicester has Sunderland this weekend and Spurs play ManU at home.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Leicester has:
@ Sunderland, West Ham, Swansea, @Manchester United, Everton, @ Chelsea

Spurs has:
Manchester United, @Stoke, West Brom, @Chelsea, Southampton, @Newcastle

Arsenal has:
@West Ham, Crystal Palace, West Brom, @Sunderland, Norwich, @Man City, Aston Villa

If Leicester can win 4 of the last 6 they clinch. If they can win 3 and draw 1 they are in awfully good shape. Spurs could potentially lose one game and Arsenal have to be perfect, but they need Leicester to lose 3 and more likely 4 games.

[Big Red Smokey]

Leicester has:
@ Sunderland, West Ham, Swansea, @Manchester United, Everton, @ Chelsea

Spurs has:
Manchester United, @Stoke, West Brom, @Chelsea, Southampton, @Newcastle

Arsenal has:
@West Ham, Crystal Palace, West Brom, @Sunderland, Norwich, @Man City, Aston Villa

If Leicester can win 4 of the last 6 they clinch. If they can win 3 and draw 1 they are in awfully good shape. Spurs could potentially lose one game and Arsenal have to be perfect, but they need Leicester to lose 3 and more likely 4 games.

Actually, if Leicester lose 2 and draw 1 and Arsenal win out, Arsenal would get them on GD most likely.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Actually, if Leicester lose 2 and draw 1 and Arsenal win out, Arsenal would get them on GD most likely.

Like I said...they are in awfully good shape, but that's true. They are already close in GD and you would think that if Arsenal runs off 7 more wins they will pass them there.

[membengal]

Arsenal at West Ham is FAR from a gimme.

[bucksfan2]

Leicester has:
@ Sunderland, West Ham, Swansea, @Manchester United, Everton, @ Chelsea

Spurs has:
Manchester United, @Stoke, West Brom, @Chelsea, Southampton, @Newcastle

Arsenal has:
@West Ham, Crystal Palace, West Brom, @Sunderland, Norwich, @Man City, Aston Villa

If Leicester can win 4 of the last 6 they clinch. If they can win 3 and draw 1 they are in awfully good shape. Spurs could potentially lose one game and Arsenal have to be perfect, but they need Leicester to lose 3 and more likely 4 games.

Leicester right now is just winning games. I know it sounds simplistic, but they are finding ways to win games, often by a one goal differential. Over the next 6 games what happens if they lost a game they shouldn't, or lose two in a row, will they begin to feel the pressure? I am rooting for them, the story is awesome, but I wonder when it starts to run out.

[toledodan]

I really want to go. Not sure if I can yet though.

i think there is a decent chance of most of their better players being there. also bayern will be changing coaches and could require the full squad to travel.

[thatcoolguy_22]

Leicester City wins again! 2 goals for Vardy and they are currently 10 points up on the league. Tottenham is playing Man U as well. Can they hold on? This is incredible.

[paintmered]

Leicester City wins again! 2 goals for Vardy and they are currently 10 points up on the league. Tottenham is playing Man U as well. Can they hold on? This is incredible.

It's really time to believe that it can and will happen. Has there ever been as improbable of (likely) champion as Leicester this year in any sport? And it's not like they have the opportunity to sneak into the playoffs as an eight seed and go on a run, either. This is akin to this year's Phillies winning 105 games this season. Nobody with any sanity before the season began had them playing for European competitions next season, let alone the Champions League and winning it all. Bayern v Leicester is coming to a Midlands near you.

Just a great story, and you can't help but root for them to cross the finish line (unless you're a Tottenham supporter).

Leicester have a boatload of money headed their way for next year, and it will be interesting to see how they reinforce their roster to deal with the extra completion workload while fending off the big boys for their key contributors.

[M2]

Leicester may be the best team sports story ever. This would be like Cincinnati falling into the Ohio River, taking the entire Reds team with it and then Louisville getting put in the majors and winning the whole thing. It's like Buster Douglas beating Mike Tyson every week for a year. Leicester winning the EPL is so far off the charts we don't even have good analogies to describe what it's like. It's like Leicester City winning the Premier League. Seriously it's that crazy.

[westofyou]

Leicester may be the best team sports story ever. This would be like Cincinnati falling into the Ohio River, taking the entire Reds team with it and then Louisville getting put in the majors and winning the whole thing. It's like Buster Douglas beating Mike Tyson every week for a year. Leicester winning the EPL is so far off the charts we don't even have good analogies to describe what it's like. It's like Leicester City winning the Premier League. Seriously it's that crazy.

It's the sports equivalent of Lyle Lovett marrying Julia Roberts, it's as likely as Jimi Hendrix opening for the Monkees.

[westofyou]

Tottenham has my heart however


No Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[improbus]

I'm pretty sure Leicester needs 9 points in their next 5 points to guarantee the title (Assuming Spurs win all their remaining games). They lead by 7 points with 5 games remaining for both clubs.

Leicester's remaining schedule isn't easy.

[paintmered]

Leicester's magic number is 9 points and decreases with each point they pick up and also with each point Tottenham drops.

[M2]

It's the sports equivalent of Lyle Lovett marrying Julia Roberts, it's as likely as Jimi Hendrix opening for the Monkees.

It's like Jimi Hendrix being in the Monkees.

[RedTeamGo!]

It's the sports equivalent of Lyle Lovett marrying Julia Roberts, it's as likely as Jimi Hendrix opening for the Monkees.

Ha, it's more like me marrying Julia Roberts!

[M2]

Tottenham has my heart however

Looks like you're in for a bit of golden era. Last time an English team had a youth movement like this it was Man U in the 1990s.

[M2]

Cristiano Ronaldo came to the rescue for Madrid yesterday. Meanwhile, Man City upset PSG. Barcelona protects a precarious 2-1 at Atletico Madrid today. Bayern heads to Benfica up 1-0. Just a guess, but I think we're going to see an upset in at least one of those matchups.

[tomnuetten]

Cristiano Ronaldo came to the rescue for Madrid yesterday. Meanwhile, Man City upset PSG. Barcelona protects a precarious 2-1 at Atletico Madrid today. Bayern heads to Benfica up 1-0. Just a guess, but I think we're going to see an upset in at least one of those matchups.

If there is an upset I´d bet on Barca but I hope I´m wrong ;)

[M2]

If there is an upset I´d bet on Barca but I hope I´m wrong ;)

Atletico has a road goal and they're no doubt angry about playing a man down in the 1st leg. Though I want both teams to lose that contest. Benfica plays in a massive stadium in front of rabid fans, so 12th-man effect could help them.

[tomnuetten]

Atletico has a road goal and they're no doubt angry about playing a man down in the 1st leg. Though I want both teams to lose that contest. Benfica plays in a massive stadium in front of rabid fans, so 12th-man effect could help them.

and sadly I was right. I just don´t like Atletico. Don´t like Diego Simeone (great coach though) hate those fascist fans (killed a left wing deportiva fan a while ago) and don´t like some of the players...

Got lucky that the coach missed that the handball was in the box and only gave barca a freekick. Should have been a penalty a minute to play ... could have been overtime...

Yeah now there are only teams left I don´t really like... I´m no fan of bayern munich but I think I´ll go with them

[IslandRed]

The most interesting semifinal pairings would be a Madrid Derby and a "well, this is awkward, isn't it, Pep and Manuel?" Derby.

[M2]

and sadly I was right. I just don´t like Atletico. Don´t like Diego Simeone (great coach though) hate those fascist fans (killed a left wing deportiva fan a while ago) and don´t like some of the players...

Got lucky that the coach missed that the handball was in the box and only gave barca a freekick. Should have been a penalty a minute to play ... could have been overtime...

Yeah now there are only teams left I don´t really like... I´m no fan of bayern munich but I think I´ll go with them

Barca seems to be falling apart. Love it. Couldn't happen to a nicer group of guys. Hala Madrid.

[tomnuetten]

Barca seems to be falling apart. Love it. Couldn't happen to a nicer group of guys. Hala Madrid.

Real is not any better than Atletico, aswell fascist fans.. players like Pepe, Ramos, Marcelo.... Will never root for them either ;)

[M2]

Real is not any better than Atletico, aswell fascist fans.. players like Pepe, Ramos, Marcelo.... Will never root for them either ;)

If you've been to Madrid you surely know better than to buy that fascist B.S. Might be the most welcoming city on the planet. There are some knobs who live in the hinterlands (and they're mostly Atleti fans). The club actually kicked out the supporters group that leaned fascist and the rest of the team's fans hate that group.

Frankly, Barca's attempts to paint Madrid as the fascist club are borderline despicable. Madrid was the last city that held out against Franco and Real was founded and run by leftists, named in honor of a reformist king. The only reason Franco, who hailed from Galicia and, I think, was a Depor fan, ever embraced Madrid was the city was the capital and in the 1950s the club was just about Spain's only export and/or symbol of national pride. Yes, Santiago Bernabeu was a Franquisto, but my wife taught English to one of his grandchildren and supposedly the family is mostly leftists these days. Barca fans really need to recognize the march of history. The clash these days is over who plays the most beautiful football, not over antiquated political divisions. Or, failing that, they could recognize Franco built the Camp Nou (largely in order to provide restless Catalans with a massive circus each weekend) and in many ways found FCB every bit as politically useful as RMCF. I know, heresy, Nonetheless it happens to be true.

Also, with prats like Neymar, Alves and Pique on its roster, Barca doesn't get to throw stones at unlikable players. Those guys are some of the worst. And what's wrong with Ramos? He's a rock hard center back like Puyol or Miguel Angel Nadal. I'll add that Marcelo on his worst behaved day is better than Alves on his best.

[IslandRed]

Remembered Liverpool-Dortmund were playing in the Europa League.

Flipped on the TV.

Saw Liverpool was down 0-2 (1-3) at halftime and needed three goals to advance.

Flipped off the TV and went back to work.

Mistake.

[tomnuetten]

If you've been to Madrid you surely know better than to buy that fascist B.S. Might be the most welcoming city on the planet. There are some knobs who live in the hinterlands (and they're mostly Atleti fans). The club actually kicked out the supporters group that leaned fascist and the rest of the team's fans hate that group.

Frankly, Barca's attempts to paint Madrid as the fascist club are borderline despicable. Madrid was the last city that held out against Franco and Real was founded and run by leftists, named in honor of a reformist king. The only reason Franco, who hailed from Galicia and, I think, was a Depor fan, ever embraced Madrid was the city was the capital and in the 1950s the club was just about Spain's only export and/or symbol of national pride. Yes, Santiago Bernabeu was a Franquisto, but my wife taught English to one of his grandchildren and supposedly the family is mostly leftists these days. Barca fans really need to recognize the march of history. The clash these days is over who plays the most beautiful football, not over antiquated political divisions. Or, failing that, they could recognize Franco built the Camp Nou (largely in order to provide restless Catalans with a massive circus each weekend) and in many ways found FCB every bit as politically useful as RMCF. I know, heresy, Nonetheless it happens to be true.

Also, with prats like Neymar, Alves and Pique on its roster, Barca doesn't get to throw stones at unlikable players. Those guys are some of the worst. And what's wrong with Ramos? He's a rock hard center back like Puyol or Miguel Angel Nadal. I'll add that Marcelo on his worst behaved day is better than Alves on his best.

I´m not a Barca fan at all and this has nothing to do with Barca vs Real for me.
I just don´t like Atletico or Real => the only good club from Madrid is Rayo....
And this has nothing to do with what they did or didn´t do in the past during the Franco time, it is about the fangroups standing the stadium today. The active fans... I know that most "fans" aren´t fascists and don´t care about politics during a football game, but those active football fans (making choreographies, travelling to away games, being the loudest fans in the stadium etc.) are the reason I dislike Real and Atletico (Atletico even more)

Ultras Sur used the SS skull on their merchandise, they loved to bring some swastika flags to the game. I know the fanclub is forbidden now and some of the members are banned from the stadium (move in the right direction and same is true for boixos nois and other ultra fangroups) yet lots of those fangroups are still part of the Madrid fanbase and part of the fans in bernabéu)

Mourinho praised the Ultras Sur after a game (they did show Racist symbols during this game) because without them there would have been no atmosphere at all. That was the moment journalists etc. started to talk a bit more about those fans and with multiple other incidents (UEFA punished them for racist fans aswell) it forced the club to do something against it...


Marcelo is one of the worst divers (same with Neymar), Pepe is one of the dirtiest player out there and Ramos is a great defender but he has (from time to time) mental blackouts and makes terrible tackles because of frustration (and he likes his flying ellboww ;) )

Ramos has been sent off 21 times in his career so far
Puyol 3 times
Miguel Angel Nadal 7 times

obviously not ever card was the right decision and some of the cheap shots were overlooked during the game but there is a difference between those 3 players anyway ;)

again Pique is (especially against Real) similar, Suarez is obviously a dirty player and Busquets is as big of a diver as Marcelo... => there is a reason I don´t like those players ;)

[Yachtzee]

If you've been to Madrid you surely know better than to buy that fascist B.S. Might be the most welcoming city on the planet. There are some knobs who live in the hinterlands (and they're mostly Atleti fans). The club actually kicked out the supporters group that leaned fascist and the rest of the team's fans hate that group.

Frankly, Barca's attempts to paint Madrid as the fascist club are borderline despicable. Madrid was the last city that held out against Franco and Real was founded and run by leftists, named in honor of a reformist king. The only reason Franco, who hailed from Galicia and, I think, was a Depor fan, ever embraced Madrid was the city was the capital and in the 1950s the club was just about Spain's only export and/or symbol of national pride. Yes, Santiago Bernabeu was a Franquisto, but my wife taught English to one of his grandchildren and supposedly the family is mostly leftists these days. Barca fans really need to recognize the march of history. The clash these days is over who plays the most beautiful football, not over antiquated political divisions. Or, failing that, they could recognize Franco built the Camp Nou (largely in order to provide restless Catalans with a massive circus each weekend) and in many ways found FCB every bit as politically useful as RMCF. I know, heresy, Nonetheless it happens to be true.

Also, with prats like Neymar, Alves and Pique on its roster, Barca doesn't get to throw stones at unlikable players. Those guys are some of the worst. And what's wrong with Ramos? He's a rock hard center back like Puyol or Miguel Angel Nadal. I'll add that Marcelo on his worst behaved day is better than Alves on his best.

I think you are the first person I've ever heard try to make any claims of leftist ties to Real Madrid. From what I have gleaned from the history books is that Real Madrid, while maybe not tied directly to Fascists politically, has always been the team that hitches itself to the elites of society. They want to be the top team in Spain and have always been willing to climb into bed with the ruling powers to maintain that status. I think the only time in their history where they did anything that might be considered "left" was when they conveniently dropped "Real" from their name during the Republican era, which they added back after the Republicans lost. So in the politically charged history of Spanish football, you could say Real Madrid are the political opportunists. Is Real Madrid fascist today? No. Do they have fans that still hold outdated political views that others find distasteful? Yes. But I don't think that you can hold the entire fan base accountable for the views of a few. I mean, I was a Reds fan during the Marge Schott era and I didn't agree with anything she said.

If you ask me, both Real Madrid and Barcelona have players that practice the "Dark Arts." In our house, we watch Barca because my son loves Messi and doesn't like CR7. I'm fine with that because, as far as prats go, Ronaldo is the biggest of them all, going back to his Man United days. In Europe, every team has its prats. I like Bayern Munich and watch them with my son. I tell him he should watch Thomas Müller and play like him. I tell him if he behaves like Arjen Robben, I may have to disown him. ;)

[M2]

Mourinho praised the Ultras Sur after a game (they did show Racist symbols during this game) because without them there would have been no atmosphere at all. That was the moment journalists etc. started to talk a bit more about those fans and with multiple other incidents (UEFA punished them for racist fans aswell) it forced the club to do something against it...

I think we can both agree Mourinho leaves a trail of slime behind him when he walks.

I'd pick Neymar as the worst diver. All Brazilians these days are shameless divers, but Neymar flings himself at the ground with particular abandon. He's preposterous.

[Yachtzee]

I think we can both agree Mourinho leaves a trail of slime behind him when he walks.

I'd pick Neymar as the worst diver. All Brazilians these days are shameless divers, but Neymar flings himself at the ground with particular abandon. He's preposterous.

Mourinho is like the classic Wrestling heel. You hate him but man those press conferences are so entertaining.

[M2]

I think you are the first person I've ever heard try to make any claims of leftist ties to Real Madrid. From what I have gleaned from the history books is that Real Madrid, while maybe not tied directly to Fascists politically, has always been the team that hitches itself to the elites of society.

Early 20th-century Spanish politics are headache inducing. The club itself was actually funded by some Barcelona boys, the Padros brothers. Total lefties. Madrid got the Real title when King Alfonso was trying to be a man of the people (a few years later he'd back the Primo de Rivera dictatorship to save his own bacon). One of his sons, I think it was the deaf one, liked the team and everyone liked the prince. It was a PR move mostly and the club was nothing special. Madrid itself was a leftist city (as capital cities tend to be), even when dictators took over. Primo didn't pay much attention to football. Republicans ran the club during the Rivera dictatorship all the way through the Civil War (and the club did very well) and then Franco Nationalists executed a bunch of them.

What you've read is probably the Franco Era history of the club. Bernabeu, who worked for the club's Republican leadership before the war and then fought for the Nationalists (because Spain), eventually became club President. Atletico Madrid (briefly called Atletico Aviacion) was the regime's initial darling team. Bernabeu used his connections to build a massive stadium, that's now named after him, convincing the powers that be it would be prestigious for Spain. Turned out to be a cash cow for the club, which then bought up a pile of great players, creating the team that dominated Europe in the late '50s. That's when Franco started paying attention. FCB got the same sweetheart treatment from the government. They just like to pretend that it didn't happen. Soccer was just about the only thing Spain had to offer in those days. Every prominent club in Spain got a shine from the Franco regime, which used the game to open foreign relations and to pacify the masses at home.


So in the politically charged history of Spanish football, you could say Real Madrid are the political opportunists.

It really wasn't any more than any other football club, but when it became great the pols glommed onto it. Since then it's been a big business. Same applies to Barca, where club presidents repeatedly try to leverage their way into politics.


In our house, we watch Barca because my son loves Messi and doesn't like CR7. I'm fine with that because, as far as prats go, Ronaldo is the biggest of them all, going back to his Man United days.

Ronaldo trains harder than any player alive, literally outworks everyone and made himself into a star. No one picked him at the starting line. Had to scratch his way onto his youth team. Doesn't drink. Doesn't do drugs. Doesn't have any tattoos because you can't donate blood if you get one. Donates huge sums to charity (and time as well) without making a big deal about it. Takes care of people he met on the way up.

Meanwhile Messi is the creation of aggressive HGH treatments, doesn't pay his taxes and has his entire life run by publicists. He's a gifted player, but talk about an empty vessel. Honestly, I think Ronaldo takes a lot stick because of his looks. It's not his fault he makes women swoon while Messi looks like he should be wearing a red hat in someone's lawn. Add in that he's demonstrative on the field (greatest sin in sports) and people ignore the substance for the style.

[westofyou]

Harry Kane: 2 goals today, leads EPL with 24 goals this season, 1 more than last place Aston Villa

[M2]

Harry Kane: 2 goals today, leads EPL with 24 goals this season, 1 more than last place Aston Villa

He's really good. Dele Alli is too (and he just turned 20). Spurs are 5 points back of Leicester with four to play. Both teams have rough schedules, but Tottenham is good enough to sweep. It's possible we could see a tie. If so, Tottenham wins the goal difference tiebreaker.

Over in Spain, Barca, Atleti and Madrid are separated by 1 point with five to play. The Madrid clubs have the Champions League semis to contend with as well. Barca has the Copa del Rey final after the league wraps up, but it's in its worst form in more than a decade.

[RedTeamGo!]

La liga is an excruciating watch. I find the EPL much more entertaining. That Vardy red card the other day would have been a PK in la liga.

[M2]

La liga is an excruciating watch. I find the EPL much more entertaining. That Vardy red card the other day would have been a PK in la liga.

I find the level of play in La Liga to be superior. Even the worst teams in that league know what to do with the ball when they get it. And Vardy would have been slapped with a yellow in Spain, same as he was in England.

[Yachtzee]

I've been enjoying quite a bit of soccer from all leagues this year, my first after getting the regional sports package so that I can watch BeInSports and Fox Soccer Channel. I would say that this has been a down year for the EPL as far as quality goes. There's still a ton of talent in the league, but it seems like all the churning of the coaches and the rosters have had an effect as teams seem to have issues with getting a good rhythm going from game to game. Aston Villa has been terrible to watch, but you do have the compelling story of Leicester City and Spurs have been a joy to watch this season. La Liga has some amazing teams at the top of the league, but not so much at the bottom. I don't know how anyone can watch Barca, Real Madrid, Atleti, and Villareal and not be amazed, even if you don't like the teams. I've actually found the Bundesliga to be the most entertaining to watch, even when Bayern Munich isn't playing. Serie A is still a snoozefest for me. Ligue 1 isn't so great to watch if it isn't PSG, and I pretty much just watch PSG because Zlatan (could you imagine Zlatan in MLS? He'd definitely get the media's attention and I don't think MLS has really had a player who refers to himself in the third person yet).

What has really excited me this season though, has been following Brighton and Hove Albion's season in the Football Championship. Since I took my boys to see them play in the season opener back in August, the Seagulls have had an amazing season and now sit even on points with Burnley, with goal differential keeping them from the automatic promotion bit for the EPL. If they get promoted, I've told our friend who is a season ticket holder that BHAFC needs to fly us out to start the next season as we may well be the good luck charm for them.

[tomnuetten]

lots of tension in la liga (on the bottom and on the top) and today made it even tighter...


Rayo lost the win in the 92min with the 1-1
Gijon with the last second win in the 94min 2-1 (sadly)

and at the top barca won, athletico with a lucky win against bilbao and real is leading at the moment aswell..

The euroleague and championsleague spots are not decided aswell...

[M2]

I hope Rayo stays up. They play adventurous football every season and always have a pile of players bigger teams want to plunder.

[IslandRed]

My daughter's soccer coach is a normally-jovial expat Brit and an Everton supporter. As Liverpool was thrashing Everton 4-0 on Wednesday in the Merseyside Derby, I told her, "Coach Bob's going to be mad about this." So, at practice yesterday, of course she mentions it. "You're probably pretty grumpy about that game yesterday, huh?" I told her she was lucky to escape being made to do sprints.

[tomnuetten]

My daughter's soccer coach is a normally-jovial expat Brit and an Everton supporter. As Liverpool was thrashing Everton 4-0 on Wednesday in the Merseyside Derby, I told her, "Coach Bob's going to be mad about this." So, at practice yesterday, of course she mentions it. "You're probably pretty grumpy about that game yesterday, huh?" I told her she was lucky to escape being made to do sprints.

looks like another tough training ;) being down against ManU in the cup semi final and Lukaku misses a penatly shot...
and they finaly lose the game in the 93 minute... ouch


Rayo with a tough loss against Real after being up 2-0 (****)
Atletico with another close win
Barca already leading against Gijon...

[M2]

Keylor Navas saved Madrid's bacon in the 1st half of that game. That team needs no part of David de Gea, who'd be a clear downgrade (a Danilo-level move).

Everton wins the award for team that ought to be a lot better.

[improbus]

So, Spurs draw today. Leicester up 7 with 3 to go. Spurs have to win out to have any real chance and their next game is away at Chelsea, who would love to end Spurs title dreams. This season is so great.

[membengal]

For those old enough to remember it (and also for those who are not), an absolutely gutting read on the wrap-up of the inquest into the Hillsborough tragedy. Puts a bow on what people had long said - issue was police incompetence and cover-up, and blame on the Liverpool supporters for the tragedy a lie from the start. Tough read but recommended:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/26/hillsborough-inquests-jury-says-96-victims-were-unlawfully-killed

More than just echoes of the Who concert locally (for those as old as I)...

The 96 who died (so many children too):

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/ng-interactive/2016/apr/06/hillsborough-victims-the-96-people-whose-lives-were-cut-short

[tomnuetten]

one of my two favorit football teams is back in the first bundesliga again (SC Freiburg). They won away and are now (2 games before the end of the season) already secure of the 1st or 2nd place.. and they´ll most likely end as the champ aswell (on top of the red bull team in germany nobody likes...)

and all of the top 3 in la liga won again

[M2]

For those old enough to remember it (and also for those who are not), an absolutely gutting read on the wrap-up of the inquest into the Hillsborough tragedy. Puts a bow on what people had long said - issue was police incompetence and cover-up, and blame on the Liverpool supporters for the tragedy a lie from the start. Tough read but recommended:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/26/hillsborough-inquests-jury-says-96-victims-were-unlawfully-killed

More than just echoes of the Who concert locally (for those as old as I)...

The 96 who died (so many children too):

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/ng-interactive/2016/apr/06/hillsborough-victims-the-96-people-whose-lives-were-cut-short

While there's no doubt the idiocy of the officials at the game created and then exacerbated the conditions, I've never been comfortable excusing the people who came upon a pileup of people and stared pushing against it. Always seemed to me that a lot of people who took part in that press wanted to blame the officials exclusively in order to deflect any blame from themselves (and vice versa). A truly wretched and violent fan culture also contributed to Hillsborough, and that shouldn't be forgotten either.

[paintmered]

Leicester haven't won it all yet, but the single point means that Tottenham must win out to have any chance to deny the Foxes.

[Yachtzee]

While there's no doubt the idiocy of the officials at the game created and then exacerbated the conditions, I've never been comfortable excusing the people who came upon a pileup of people and stared pushing against it. Always seemed to me that a lot of people who took part in that press wanted to blame the officials exclusively in order to deflect any blame from themselves (and vice versa). A truly wretched and violent fan culture also contributed to Hillsborough, and that shouldn't be forgotten either.

I believe this has been investigated ad nauseum, but my understanding is that by actual witness accounts, the crush in the stands wasn't so much about violent and/or drunk fans pushing in. It was actually ticketed fans being directed toward the main pens and not being directed to the sides. As people come in, there is that notion that "one more can squeeze in." But individuals squeezing in at the back don't realize what kind of pressure that puts on people on the other end. It's not unlike the building squeeze that you find in subway cars at rush hour when people try to squeeze one more onto a packed subway train. I believe that the inquiries have show that the tragedy at Hillsborough could have been avoided simply by delaying the start and directing fans to the outer pens. The evidence and testimony has shown that the whole notion that Liverpool fans were drunk and violent was a myth cooked up by the authorities of the South Yorkshire Police to absolve themselves of blame and the media jumped.on that myth and ran with it.

[membengal]

I believe this has been investigated ad nauseum, but my understanding is that by actual witness accounts, the crush in the stands wasn't so much about violent and/or drunk fans pushing in. It was actually ticketed fans being directed toward the main pens and not being directed to the sides. As people come in, there is that notion that "one more can squeeze in." But individuals squeezing in at the back don't realize what kind of pressure that puts on people on the other end. It's not unlike the building squeeze that you find in subway cars at rush hour when people try to squeeze one more onto a packed subway train. I believe that the inquiries have show that the tragedy at Hillsborough could have been avoided simply by delaying the start and directing fans to the outer pens. The evidence and testimony has shown that the whole notion that Liverpool fans were drunk and violent was a myth cooked up by the authorities of the South Yorkshire Police to absolve themselves of blame and the media jumped.on that myth and ran with it.

This.

[M2]

I believe this has been investigated ad nauseum, but my understanding is that by actual witness accounts, the crush in the stands wasn't so much about violent and/or drunk fans pushing in. It was actually ticketed fans being directed toward the main pens and not being directed to the sides. As people come in, there is that notion that "one more can squeeze in." But individuals squeezing in at the back don't realize what kind of pressure that puts on people on the other end. It's not unlike the building squeeze that you find in subway cars at rush hour when people try to squeeze one more onto a packed subway train. I believe that the inquiries have show that the tragedy at Hillsborough could have been avoided simply by delaying the start and directing fans to the outer pens. The evidence and testimony has shown that the whole notion that Liverpool fans were drunk and violent was a myth cooked up by the authorities of the South Yorkshire Police to absolve themselves of blame and the media jumped.on that myth and ran with it.

I have no qualms with the findings that sensible game management could have averted the disaster. Clearly they sent way too many people into a confined area, one that shouldn't have been confined in the first place. By the same token, the fans were largely drunk (because English fans in the late 1980s routinely got lit before games - still do - and Scousers had a reputation for being particularly blotto). Generally, the fans that enter last also tend to be the drunkest fans. Also, a lot of them pressed when they ran into a throng of people that wasn't moving. They weren't waiting patiently in line, they were pushing up against a mass of bodies that wasn't much moving. I get that they wanted in, but there's a point at which you make a decision to push on a crowd in front of you and this time it had fatal consequences.

And while the police made numerous mistake that day, you can understand why their first reaction was to position themselves between Liverpool fans spilling onto the pitch and Forest fans on the opposite side of the stadium. The Liverpool fanbase had gained infamy a few years earlier when it had attacked and indirectly killed Juve fans during a European Cup final at Heysel. Law enforcement was on high alert for fan vs. fan violence. That was the scourge plaguing the game in those years. Had it not been Liverpool, officials might have responded far differently, but Liverpool fans had an earned reputation as some of the most unruly in the game. IMO, it's kind of impossible not to view Hillsborough through the lens of what happened in Heysel.

[membengal]

By the same token, the fans were largely drunk

No. No they were not. Read the above link. The investigation has found that NOT to be the case, that the police generated that story to cover up their failures.

[paintmered]

This has descended into Bengals v Steelers: London edition.

And jubilation in Leicester!!

[BuckeyeRed27]

Congrats to Leicester, what a story.

However I wish Spurs would have won and Leicester got the chance to win it at home this weekend.

[tomnuetten]

as a spurs supporter I knew that Leicester would win anyway, I just hoped that those **** chelsea team and fans couldn´t say that they stopped the spurs title dream...

they acted like they won something today themselve while watching the spurs in CL next season ;)

congrats to leicester, great story... wanted the spurs to win though...

[hebroncougar]

I have no qualms with the findings that sensible game management could have averted the disaster. Clearly they sent way too many people into a confined area, one that shouldn't have been confined in the first place. By the same token, the fans were largely drunk (because English fans in the late 1980s routinely got lit before games - still do - and Scousers had a reputation for being particularly blotto). Generally, the fans that enter last also tend to be the drunkest fans. Also, a lot of them pressed when they ran into a throng of people that wasn't moving. They weren't waiting patiently in line, they were pushing up against a mass of bodies that wasn't much moving. I get that they wanted in, but there's a point at which you make a decision to push on a crowd in front of you and this time it had fatal consequences.

And while the police made numerous mistake that day, you can understand why their first reaction was to position themselves between Liverpool fans spilling onto the pitch and Forest fans on the opposite side of the stadium. The Liverpool fanbase had gained infamy a few years earlier when it had attacked and indirectly killed Juve fans during a European Cup final at Heysel. Law enforcement was on high alert for fan vs. fan violence. That was the scourge plaguing the game in those years. Had it not been Liverpool, officials might have responded far differently, but Liverpool fans had an earned reputation as some of the most unruly in the game. IMO, it's kind of impossible not to view Hillsborough through the lens of what happened in Heysel.

You sound like David Duckenfield. That's about as ignorant of facts as about 10 minutes after the disaster happened. The police and stadium managers made grievous errors.

[thatcoolguy_22]

5,000 to 1 sounds like a good movie title for Leicester City's run. Incredible. I never really followed the EPL closely, but this season made me a fan. I would watch games on occasion before, but I never really cared about player movement and whatnot. They've made a fan out of me and I would bet there are many others in the same position as I. Good for the league and great for the Fantastic Foxes of Leicester. Well done.

[M2]

You sound like David Duckenfield. That's about as ignorant of facts as about 10 minutes after the disaster happened. The police and stadium managers made grievous errors.

Are you going to claim fans streaming out of a booze train and into a cup semifinal in 1989 were mostly sober? Or that people didn't push from the back when they came upon the mass of people in front of them? This really isn't black-and-white. Match officials mishandled the mob, leading directly to the deaths. Yet it was a mob. It was a mass of people that, not handled properly, could get severely out of control. That doesn't happen at a dog show.

And let's not pretend the crowd control of every Liverpool away match for better than a decade wasn't informed by Heysel. Ask Juve fans what they think of Hillsborough and the answer likely will be either it was inevitable or that it was divine justice. Personally I don't think either of those are true, but I do think the game culture of English football was careening headlong toward a disaster in those years. Liverpool just happened to be one of the more off-the-rails fanbases.

[M2]

Champions League final will be an all-Madrid affair again. Mind-blowing to have it all come down to a derby.

[hebroncougar]

Are you going to claim fans streaming out of a booze train and into a cup semifinal in 1989 were mostly sober? Or that people didn't push from the back when they came upon the mass of people in front of them? This really isn't black-and-white. Match officials mishandled the mob, leading directly to the deaths. Yet it was a mob. It was a mass of people that, not handled properly, could get severely out of control. That doesn't happen at a dog show.

And let's not pretend the crowd control of every Liverpool away match for better than a decade wasn't informed by Heysel. Ask Juve fans what they think of Hillsborough and the answer likely will be either it was inevitable or that it was divine justice. Personally I don't think either of those are true, but I do think the game culture of English football was careening headlong toward a disaster in those years. Liverpool just happened to be one of the more off-the-rails fanbases.


The Hillsborough disaster
The new inquests into the Hillsborough disaster began today in Warrington. They might just mark the beginning of the end of the process of uncovering the truth about an episode which has been obscured by deceit and disinformation for a quarter of a century.

The tragedy of 15 April 1989 was the worst sporting disaster in British history. It resulted in the deaths of 96 men, women and children (not counting several suicides attributable to psychiatric trauma); a further 300 people required hospital treatment. The circumstances in which the disaster took place, and attempts by some to shift the blame for causing it onto innocent football supporters, have led to a bitter and long-running controversy.

Hillsborough Stadium was literally a death trap. As early as 1978, inspections by safety engineers had revealed problems, and previous crowd crushes had occurred in 1981, 1987 and 1988. At the time of the disaster, the stadium did not hold a current safety certificate. This might not have mattered so much if South Yorkshire Police (SYP) had done their job properly. The fateful order to open a large exit gate to relieve crushing outside the stadium was given by the senior officer on duty, Chief Superintendent David Duckenfield, a man with almost no previous experience of policing football matches. Within an hour of giving the order, Duckenfield was denying to FA officials that he had done so and claiming that fans had forced the gate open. It wasn't just Duckenfield, either - the police as a whole responded inadequately as the disaster unfolded (as did the ambulance service).

In the aftermath of the disaster, then, SYP were on the back foot, for the simple reason that it was in large part their fault. This was a responsibility, however, which they were unwilling to accept. From the immediate aftermath of the tragedy onwards, police officers attempted to fix the blame for the disaster on the Liverpool fans, claiming that they had been drunken and violent. They also made sure to cover their own tracks: when individual officers made statements for the purposes of the official investigations, their accounts were vetted by other officers and by SYP's solicitors, who removed wording which reflected unfavourably on SYP.

The allegations against the fans were untrue, but they were plausible enough to gain traction. Hooliganism had been endemic in English football for years, and Liverpool supporters had famously been involved in a serious riot at the Heysel stadium in Belgium in 1985. The claims made by the police duly found their way, via a local news agency and an MP, into the press. A narrative took hold in which the disaster was caused by drunk, ticketless hooligans turning up late and swamping the stadium. On 19 April, Kelvin MacKenzie's Sun newspaper published its infamous front page splash "THE TRUTH", accusing Liverpool fans of urinating on police officers and robbing the dead. (Other newspapers, including one in Liverpool, also reported the allegations, but the crudeness and sensationalism of the Sun's coverage was unique.)

This narrative was a fiction. The mythical ticketless hooligans who turned up late and besieged the stadium were for the most part law-abiding, ticket-holding football supporters who had been left stranded outside the ground due to the inadequacies of the turnstiles. As for drunkenness, levels of alcohol consumption were modest: tests showed that 68 of the 95 individuals who died on the day had minimal or zero blood alcohol, while only 6 were intoxicated in any meaningful sense. The few inevitable incidents of inappropriate crowd behaviour - including desperate fans losing their temper at the police as their fellow supporters lay dying - were small in number, and contrasted with the way in which numerous fans who found themselves caught up in the disaster assisted with the rescue effort.

Even at the time, not everyone believed SYP's take on things. In August 1989, an inquiry led by Lord Justice Taylor exonerated the fans and found that SYP, and Duckenfield in particular, were mostly to blame for what had happened. Yet justice for the victims and their families proved elusive. The CPS decided that no-one would be prosecuted, and Duckenfield was allowed to retire on full pension without facing disciplinary proceedings. Civil lawsuits encountered mixed success. When the original inquests were held, the coroner failed to follow the Coroners' Rules, and made unwarranted suggestions to the jury about the role of alcohol in the disaster. For its part, SYP used the inquests as an opportunity to attack the Taylor Report. One particular bone of contention was that the inquests, like the Taylor inquiry, were told that the dead were all irreversibly injured in the initial crush; the coroner accordingly refused to admit evidence from after 3.15pm. It subsequently emerged that a large minority of the victims might still have been saved after this point.

The jury eventually returned verdicts of accidental death. In other words, no-one was going to be held accountable. The families were devastated, but attempts to get the inquests re-opened came to nothing.

By the late 1990s, it looked like the families and survivors had hit a brick wall. It seemed that the Liverpool fans had been saddled, in the minds of many, with the blame for the disaster while those who were truly responsible had got off scot free. In 1997, the incoming Labour government appointed a senior judge to conduct a review of the affair, but his terms of reference were narrowly circumscribed and he recommended no further action. In 2000, the families brought a private prosecution against Duckenfield for manslaughter, but the trial collapsed when the jury proved unable to reach a verdict.

Not until 2012 did the Hillsborough Independent Panel, after an exhaustive inquiry making use of vast amounts of new evidence, finally put onto the public record the conclusion that Lord Justice Taylor had been right all along. The Liverpool fans were the victims of the tragedy, not the perpetrators. The HIP report elicited a formal apology from the Prime Minister and resulted in new inquests being ordered, along with new investigations by the police, the Director of Public Prosecutions and the Independent Police Complaints Commission. Even MacKenzie issued a weaselly half-apology.

There was, of course, a bigger picture. At the time of Hillsborough, Liverpool was a city in decline, suffering from high unemployment, poor economic prospects and social unrest. Liverpudlians were accused by outsiders of a propensity for self-pity, but in 1980s Liverpool - the place where I grew up - there was a lot to be pitiful about. At any rate, the local community was in no mood to be fitted up by the police for causing a major tragedy. Some people are irritated by the attitude of Liverpudlians to the disaster and the fans' dogged pursuit of official vindication - but it surely can't be that difficult to empathise with the indignation at the injustices perpetrated on the victims and the lazy way in which Hillsborough is still attributed to drunken hooliganism and used to promote half-baked stereotypes about the city. The families and survivors would not be seeking "endless further inquiries", as the retired judge Sir Oliver Popplewell put it, if the original inquiries had not been compromised by smears and cover-ups.

It remains to be seen what findings the new inquests will make. The truly astonishing thing is that it has taken so long for the process to reach this point.

[M2]

A) Never claimed there were ticketless fans streaming in or that match officials in any way performed admirably that day.

B) At no point did I state the victims of the crush were drunk. By and large they were in early, but the fans coming in late, traditionally, are the ones who've imbibed the most. They get their maximum drink on before they enter. Again, you're not going to claim an English football crowd in 1989 was a model of sobriety, are you?

C) I've been in a crush like that (free Green Day concert in 1994 that got stopped). Distressing how many people simply don't give a damn and keep pushing forward even when they've got nowhere to go.

D) There's a difference between being a perpetrator of tragedy and an actor in it. Without question there's a subset of Liverpool fans who behavior on that day contributed (not caused, contributed) to the tragedy. I think the finger pointing from the officials was shameful, but the refusal of the fan groups to recognize the role of their reckless culture in the events of that day also saddens me.

E) That piece tries to yadda yadda yadda Heysel. it was an attack by Liverpool fans against Juve fans that led to 37 deaths and, at the time of Hillsborough, had caused English clubs to be banned from European competitions. It loomed over everything that happened that day.

[westofyou]

A) Never claimed there were ticketless fans streaming in or that match officials in any way performed admirably that day.

B) At no point did I state the victims of the crush were drunk. By and large they were in early, but the fans coming in late, traditionally, are the ones who've imbibed the most. They get their maximum drink on before they enter. Again, you're not going to claim an English football crowd in 1989 was a model of sobriety, are you?

C) I've been in a crush like that (free Green Day concert in 1994 that got stopped). Distressing how many people simply don't give a damn and keep pushing forward even when they've got nowhere to go.

D) There's a difference between being a perpetrator of tragedy and an actor in it. Without question there's a subset of Liverpool fans who behavior on that day contributed (not caused, contributed) to the tragedy. I think the finger pointing from the officials was shameful, but the refusal of the fan groups to recognize the role of their reckless culture in the events of that day also saddens me.

E) That piece tries to yadda yadda yadda Heysel. it was an attack by Liverpool fans against Juve fans that led to 37 deaths and, at the time of Hillsborough, had caused English clubs to be banned from European competitions. It loomed over everything that happened that day.

I was in a crush at Riverfront 1 year before the Who concert tragedy.

Nothing has ever been as bad as that

[M2]

Need to get myself a #11 jersey now. That was a PK shooting clinic.

[Yachtzee]

Need to get myself a #11 jersey now. That was a PK shooting clinic.

Congrats on the win for your team. Should be interesting to see what Zidane can do with a transfer window and a full season to play with.

[M2]

BTW, a shining example of what's great about soccer - the sun has come up in Madrid and the entire city is still celebrating (except for Atletico fans, but they make poor life choices).

[tomnuetten]

BTW, a shining example of what's great about soccer - the sun has come up in Madrid and the entire city is still celebrating (except for Atletico fans, but they make poor life choices).

same is true for real fans ;)

[M2]

same is true for real fans ;)

I don't know. That choice feels pretty good right now. Kind of nice when every year could be your year.

[tomnuetten]

I don't know. That choice feels pretty good right now. Kind of nice when every year could be your year.

mhm chosing the best team because they win every isn´t something I would do ;) (why not root for the cardinals ?)

in the past few years atletico could have won titles as likely as real... The first final against real was very unlucky for atletico (they were the better team) this time it went into overtime and was a very close game obviously... They don´t play attractive but they still can win again anybody ;)

[M2]

mhm chosing the best team because they win every isn´t something I would do ;) (why not root for the cardinals ?)

in the past few years atletico could have won titles as likely as real... The first final against real was very unlucky for atletico (they were the better team) this time it went into overtime and was a very close game obviously... They don´t play attractive but they still can win again anybody ;)

Patently disagree about that first final. Madrid had Atletico on the rack for much of the game, and for almost the entire final 30 minutes (once Isco came in for Sami Khedira it got lopsided). The Atletico players were cramping like crazy from chasing the ball all over the pitch. Atletico basically tried to bunker after a lucky goal, which Madrid sort of attempted in the 2nd half this year -- though I think Dani Carvajal going out and the hapless Danilo coming in had a lot to do with that. Simeone saw the weak spot and sent Carrasco in to tear apart Danilo. Smart move.

As for why I'm a Madrid fan - I went to study in Madrid in 1987, got introduced to the sport at a whole different level and got to watch the Quinta del Buitre in its prime. When Madrid would score a goal, everyone in the city would stick their heads out the window and scream. Hooked me for life. That the team is non-stop excellent is a bonus.

[Yachtzee]

Patently disagree about that first final. Madrid had Atletico on the rack for much of the game, and for almost the entire final 30 minutes (once Isco came in for Sami Khedira it got lopsided). The Atletico players were cramping like crazy from chasing the ball all over the pitch. Atletico basically tried to bunker after a lucky goal, which Madrid sort of attempted in the 2nd half this year -- though I think Dani Carvajal going out and the hapless Danilo coming in had a lot to do with that. Simeone saw the weak spot and sent Carrasco in to tear apart Danilo. Smart move.

As for why I'm a Madrid fan - I went to study in Madrid in 1987, got introduced to the sport at a whole different level and got to watch the Quinta del Buitre in its prime. When Madrid would score a goal, everyone in the city would stick their heads out the window and scream. Hooked me for life. That the team is non-stop excellent is a bonus.

I can completely understand your Madrid experience. I studied in Salzburg, Austria from 92-93 and again 94-95, which just happened to coincide with the unbelievable run of SV Austria Salzburg. Not only were they winning the Austrian Bundesliga at the time finally vanquishing rivals Austria Wien, but they made it to the UEFA cup Finals, losing to Inter Milan, and made it to the Champions League Group Stage, which for an Austrian team is an amazing achievement. Everyone would stop what they were doing when Salzburg was playing. When they had the celebration in the Salzburg Altstadt, the whole city turned out. I had played soccer since the age of 8, but before I went to Austria, I never really got into watching it on TV, and of course the only games I had gone to had been Indoor games to watch the Cleveland Force of the original MISL. After that I really understood the excitement and flow of watching the outdoor game.