College Football 2015 [Archive] - Page 4 - RedsZone.com - Cincinnati Reds Fans' Home for Baseball Discussion

villain612

12-08-2015, 09:53 AM

There's no statistical evidence for any of this stuff. It's just an opinion. Sports predictions are made all the time. If after making predictions on the NFL pregame shows someone said "but Terry, do you have any statistical evidence that show that you're definitely right?", those shows would be unwatchable...Only on RZ...

This is some pretty hyperbolic stuff. Obviously people spout opinions on here that are unproveable. The point of message boards is to discuss your opinions and declare why you have them. "Team A is terrible against the run, therefore I think Team B would be able to control the ball and win the game, etc etc". If it's his plain opinion that OSU would lose against all 4 teams and he doesn't want to justify it any way other than it being his opinion, that's cool. I simply asked why he felt that way (an attempt at intellectual discussion to understand his position). Using this extreme logic of yours would basically render this entire message board, and most of the internet a moot point.

Sea Ray

12-08-2015, 10:00 AM

This is some pretty hyperbolic stuff. Obviously people spout opinions on here that are unproveable. The point of message boards is to discuss your opinions and declare why you have them. "Team A is terrible against the run, therefore I think Team B would be able to control the ball and win the game, etc etc". If it's his plain opinion that OSU would lose against all 4 teams and he doesn't want to justify it any way other than it being his opinion, that's cool. I simply asked why he felt that way (an attempt at intellectual discussion to understand his position). Using this extreme logic of yours would basically render this entire message board, and most of the internet a moot point.

Fine. Ask him why he feels that way...and he did (answer that) . He mentioned the home loss to MSU. But you took it further. You wanted statistical evidence. In college football there's no stats that prove anything across conferences because they accumulate stats against different teams. What good does it do to compare Alabama's stats vs Ole Miss to OSU's vs Mich St?

jojo

12-08-2015, 10:11 AM

This is some pretty hyperbolic stuff. Obviously people spout opinions on here that are unproveable. The point of message boards is to discuss your opinions and declare why you have them. "Team A is terrible against the run, therefore I think Team B would be able to control the ball and win the game, etc etc". If it's his plain opinion that OSU would lose against all 4 teams and he doesn't want to justify it any way other than it being his opinion, that's cool. I simply asked why he felt that way (an attempt at intellectual discussion to understand his position). Using this extreme logic of yours would basically render this entire message board, and most of the internet a moot point.

I've already justified it. They are the third best team in their league, didn't win their division even, and basically had a .500 record during the only challenging portion of their schedule which included a loss at home to the weakest playoff team.

What you actually asked was if there is any proof for a strawman you, yourself, invented while dismissing my actual comment by making a reference to an 8 ball. In other words, no reasonable person could interpret your post as an attempt at intellectual discussion to understand JoJo's position.

Assembly Hall

12-08-2015, 10:41 AM

Do you think nothing will change because of this? I think we may see a few Bowls dropping by the wayside

I dont think having 5-7 teams in bowls will be the reason for dropping any of the bowl games. It will be money.

Assembly Hall

12-08-2015, 10:44 AM

jojo

12-08-2015, 10:50 AM

You do realize that MSU was a blown call away from being undefeated, right?

And Michigan fans thinks Sparty should have 2 losses. So?

villain612

12-08-2015, 10:55 AM

I've already justified it. They are the third best team in their league, didn't win their division even, and basically had a .500 record during the only challenging portion of their schedule which included a loss at home to the weakest playoff team.

What you actually asked was if there is any proof for a strawman you, yourself, invented while dismissing my actual comment by making a reference to an 8 ball. In other words, no reasonable person could interpret your post as an attempt at intellectual discussion to understand JoJo's position.

The 8 ball comment was a subtle jab at your past predictions for Ohio State football, but nonetheless, I meant it friendly and a real attempt at understanding your position was had. I should know that RZ is not the place for such friendly banter though.

You may think Michigan State is the weakest team, but they have beaten 4 of the top 15 teams in the country. Not too shabby.

Sea Ray

12-08-2015, 11:31 AM

You do realize that MSU was a blown call away from being undefeated, right?

Or a blown assignment (by Mich) from being in OSU's position? Do we really want to play the what if game?

Assembly Hall

12-08-2015, 12:21 PM

Or a blown assignment (by Mich) from being in OSU's position? Do we really want to play the what if game?

Sparty beat Michigan fair and square albeit on a miracle finish. The refs cost MSU a win. Your and my panties would be in a bunch if that kind of call happened against our Vols. The refs blew it and it cost the Spartans an undefeated season. Fortunately, MSU is in the CFP.

Sea Ray

12-08-2015, 12:57 PM

Sparty beat Michigan fair and square albeit on a miracle finish. The refs cost MSU a win. Your and my panties would be in a bunch if that kind of call happened against our Vols. The refs blew it and it cost the Spartans an undefeated season. Fortunately, MSU is in the CFP.

Yep, they're in. They have a chance to prove their worth. If this game goes like it did the last time they played Alabama they'll be open to a lot of criticism. I'm very much looking forward to that game. It's the primetime game on New Year's Eve as it should be

Assembly Hall

12-08-2015, 04:13 PM

Yep, they're in. They have a chance to prove their worth. If this game goes like it did the last time they played Alabama they'll be open to a lot of criticism. I'm very much looking forward to that game. It's the primetime game on New Year's Eve as it should be

To be honest, 'Bama is the one on the "hot seat" here along with the SEC. If the Tide goes down, the SEC love will diminish again next year.

Sea Ray

12-08-2015, 04:20 PM

To be honest, 'Bama is the one on the "hot seat" here along with the SEC. If the Tide goes down, the SEC love will diminish again next year.

I'm not saying MSU is on the hot seat. I'm just noting that their last game vs Alabama didn't turn out too well. Also no former Saban asst has ever beaten him before

Assembly Hall

12-08-2015, 05:56 PM

I'm not saying MSU is on the hot seat. I'm just noting that their last game vs Alabama didn't turn out too well. Also no former Saban asst has ever beaten him before

Well, I am just saying 'Bama and the SEC are gonna be under the microscope.

jojo

12-08-2015, 07:03 PM

Well, I am just saying 'Bama and the SEC are gonna be under the microscope.

Not really.

Assembly Hall

12-08-2015, 07:33 PM

Not really.

Yeah, really.

traderumor

12-08-2015, 07:53 PM

You can watch the games and see that all of the playoff caliber programs are pretty much at "any given Saturday" level. All this posturing is so much living in the past. The old system did a very good job at accepting the propaganda put out about this conference or that conference's level of competition over another. Yet when you watch the games, the powerhouse has pretty much been reduced to several above average teams. The playoffs are clearly inadequate to properly reflect this balance. So they settle for living with their past biases in selecting the "four best teams," using circular reasoning tools like strength of schedule to appear objective. But its still open to bias and corruption, both intended and unintended.

redrum

12-08-2015, 08:00 PM

Well, I am just saying 'Bama and the SEC are gonna be under the microscope.

I tend to agree. I don't think it will happen, but what would it say if Michigan State beat Alabama in the playoffs?

Make no mistake, Michigan State earned the championship, but I'm not sure anyone would argue that they separated themselves from Iowa or even Ohio State. If either of those games were played again Michigan State would certainly not be favored by more than a field goal. On the other hand Alabama was far and away the best team in the SEC. Despite their hiccup against Ole Miss, I have to believe they would be favored by double digits against any SEC team.

If, for the second year in a row, the 'weakest' team in the CFB playoffs beat the dominant SEC team then I think it would raise questions. Especially considering that there were two other teams in the B1G nearly as good.

Assembly Hall

12-08-2015, 08:34 PM

I tend to agree. I don't think it will happen, but what would it say if Michigan State beat Alabama in the playoffs?

Make no mistake, Michigan State earned the championship, but I'm not sure anyone would argue that they separated themselves from Iowa or even Ohio State. If either of those games were played again Michigan State would certainly not be favored by more than a field goal. On the other hand Alabama was far and away the best team in the SEC. Despite their hiccup against Ole Miss, I have to believe they would be favored by double digits against any SEC team.

If, for the second year in a row, the 'weakest' team in the CFB playoffs beat the dominant SEC team then I think it would raise questions. Especially considering that there were two other teams in the B1G nearly as good.

Yep, pretty much my thoughts. I would even go further, one could argue that the B1G has the three best teams in the country right here right now. I dont think that but it is very debatable. The "SEC media love" is squarely at stake for next season. We shall see how things play out.

traderumor

12-08-2015, 09:14 PM

jojo

12-08-2015, 09:25 PM

Yeah, really.

No. Actually, not really at all.

villain612

12-08-2015, 10:32 PM

I am surprised that Bama opened as a 10 point favorite over MSU.

When it comes to the advanced stats, the Spartans aren't at the top (top ten roughly) but they have the best wins of any of the top 4 teams in the playoff, and Alabama hasn't played a QB as good as Connor Cook this season (except from Ole Miss maybe, a game they lost). Really, the QB play has been the biggest problem in the SEC the past couple years IMO. Some people amongst us might not think so, but after the SEC has gotten the benefit of the doubt from the voters in the last decade, I would also agree that Bama and other SEC teams are under a microscope this year.

redrum

12-09-2015, 10:01 AM

Yep, pretty much my thoughts. I would even go further, one could argue that the B1G has the three best teams in the country right here right now. I dont think that but it is very debatable. The "SEC media love" is squarely at stake for next season. We shall see how things play out.

It is way to soon, but if Michigan State wins the CFB playoffs and Ohio State and Iowa win their bowl games, it certainly could be argued. Even if Michigan State loses and Iowa and Ohio State win they will have 3 top 10 teams.

I really don't think that Michigan State is *that* good, but then again I had the same thoughts about Ohio State going into the playoffs last year. If the B1G wins a second consecutive national title, especially given the parity at the top of its conference this year, it will be impossible for the national media to ignore.

Assembly Hall

12-09-2015, 10:22 AM

If Michigan State wins the CFB playoffs and Ohio State and Iowa win their bowl games, I think that argument could be made. Even if Michigan State loses and Iowa and Ohio State win they will have 3 top 10 teams.

I really don't think that Michigan State is *that* good, but then again I had the same thoughts about Ohio State going into the playoffs last year. If the B1G wins a second consecutive national title, especially given the parity at the top of its conference this year, it will be impossible for the national media to ignore.

I think the national media has already taken notice of the B1G. But, that really wasnt my point. It is basically that after last year's bowl games, and the love the media gave the SEC in this year's pre-season polls that if the conference doesnt put up a good showing this bowl season......that next year's pre-season poll probably will reflect it as the "benefit of the doubt" will start fading.

As far as Michigan St. and how good they are, once again they are one bad call away from being the best team in the country on paper. Conversely, 'Bama is an Ole Miss screw-up away from not making the SEC championship.

traderumor

12-09-2015, 11:16 AM

I think the national media has already taken notice of the B1G. But, that really wasnt my point. It is basically that after last year's bowl games, and the love the media gave the SEC in this year's pre-season polls that if the conference doesnt put up a good showing this bowl season......that next year's pre-season poll probably will reflect it as the "benefit of the doubt" will start fading.

As far as Michigan St. and how good they are, once again they are one bad call away from being the best team in the country on paper. Conversely, 'Bama is an Ole Miss screw-up away from not making the SEC championship.But let's not forget that Michigan St. played a lot of "lucky Buckeye games" as well. They blew up the odds on how they got to be a 1 loss team. OT with Rutgers, Purdue came back on them in the 2nd half, a 4th qtr rally against IU that made it look like a blowout when it was not, the muffed punt miracle, and of course the miracle of a cold, rainy blustery day to level the playing field in Columbus. Their D played well down the stretch, and they have a good draw for the semis by playing an offensively challenged Alabama squad. If ever there was a "its just their year" candidate, it is them. Heck, they were one reach away from losing the game Saturday. Their fans better enjoy it, like we did last year, because their run of good fortune this season will turn on them in the future.

Assembly Hall

12-09-2015, 11:58 AM

But let's not forget that Michigan St. played a lot of "lucky Buckeye games" as well. They blew up the odds on how they got to be a 1 loss team. OT with Rutgers, Purdue came back on them in the 2nd half, a 4th qtr rally against IU that made it look like a blowout when it was not, the muffed punt miracle, and of course the miracle of a cold, rainy blustery day to level the playing field in Columbus. Their D played well down the stretch, and they have a good draw for the semis by playing an offensively challenged Alabama squad. If ever there was a "its just their year" candidate, it is them. Heck, they were one reach away from losing the game Saturday. Their fans better enjoy it, like we did last year, because their run of good fortune this season will turn on them in the future.

Good post. Cant disagree with anything ya said there. I loved the comparison to the tOSU team of last year, spot on.

jojo

12-09-2015, 12:05 PM

Slyder

12-09-2015, 12:32 PM

Please make the train stop I want off this stupidity!

http://bluegoldsports.com/forums/index.php?%2Ftopic%2F711-fact-from-fiction%2F

Sea Ray

12-09-2015, 12:35 PM

A lot of good points are made here. There are so many what ifs. That's what will make this Bowl season so fascinating. The truth is we don't know much about how these teams compare 'cause there's so little overlap in scheduling.

I do disagree with whoever said that Connor Cook is the best QB Alabama will have faced this year. He's the best NFL style QB but he's not the best college QB and that's what counts at this level. It's the dual threats that are most dangerous in college. I'd argue that Ole Miss, Miss St and yes, Tennessee had harder QBs to defend than Connor Cook. Were I an NFL exec on draft day, I'd draft Cook before any of those 3 but that's not what we're talking about here

bucksfan2

12-09-2015, 01:00 PM

The past 20 superbowl champions have averaged 3.9 losses. If we're going to argue about who is legit or not in college, first lets stop pretending that being undefeated is one of the most meaningful criteria especially since it's not very hard to survey recent ncaa history and find lots of examples where scheduling had more to do one team being 12-0 and another team being 11-1 or 10-2.

Lets call a spade a spade. The current system is a wholly arbitrary one dressed up in some fancy window treatments meant to make it look as if the four best teams have been objectively identified. Seriously, in terms of legitimacy, it would be better if the NCAA stopped trying to fool us into still believing the romantic mythology of amateurism and just indulged the greedy inevitable money grab of an expanded playoff format. College football has already jumped the shark in terms of money. Who really believes college football is about shaping the character of young men? It's a heck of a lot more about maximizing revenue streams. If you think that characterization is wiggsers, then you're likely not a season ticket holder, member of an alumni association or have never looked at yours or your child's itemized tuition bill (or at least you've failed to notice the athletic related taxes adding to the pile of education-related debt of students because to be fair, theyre cleverly hidden).

I am going to solve college football.

1. Give every team one preseason game, they can schedule whoever they want. If they want to play FCS or an instate MAC type team, go for it. It doesn't count, it can be played anytime during a predetermined window of fall practice. There is a need for FCS and lower division schools to take a pay day in order to get destroyed by a power conference school. Paying $3M to Ohio or Akron or Toledo is a huge boost to the AD and should be taken into consideration.

2. Get rid of conference championships, got to a 12 game schedule (the preseason game gives each power school another home date.) Conference championships are about a glorified money grab and too often they don't pit the best two teams against each other.

3. Each power conference team is required to play two other power 5 schools or a group of 5 school that finished the previous year within the top 25 rankings. No more predetermined layup schedules and no FCS teams in the regular season. I don't mind an easy 1st weekend game because the quality of football isn't that great to start off.

4. Select the best 8 teams with some but minimal emphasis placed on conference champions. There will be years in which one conference isn't deserving of a spot, so be it.

5. Oh and here is my kicker, select a week late in the season and deem it non-conference week. Play out of conference foes when you are playing good football. I would also love to see southern teams travel north as well as northern teams travel south.

Assembly Hall

12-09-2015, 01:08 PM

A lot of good points are made here. There are so many what ifs. That's what will make this Bowl season so fascinating. The truth is we don't know much about how these teams compare 'cause there's so little overlap in scheduling.

And this discussion has come full circle. I said something along these lines pages back. The Power 5 conferences need to look at themselves in the mirror. The Big 12 plays a complete conference schedule...everybody plays everybody that equates into 9 conference games. Everybody should fall in line with 9 conference games. On top of that the Power 5 should play 2 games OOC against other Power 5 schools. I will give them one "chippy" per season but it cant be a FCS school. Just my thoughts. But I completely agree with jojo, seems that it is all about the revenue stream. Hell, I just want a even and level playing field.

Assembly Hall

12-09-2015, 01:11 PM

I am going to solve college football.

1. Give every team one preseason game, they can schedule whoever they want. If they want to play FCS or an instate MAC type team, go for it. It doesn't count, it can be played anytime during a predetermined window of fall practice. There is a need for FCS and lower division schools to take a pay day in order to get destroyed by a power conference school. Paying $3M to Ohio or Akron or Toledo is a huge boost to the AD and should be taken into consideration.

2. Get rid of conference championships, got to a 12 game schedule (the preseason game gives each power school another home date.) Conference championships are about a glorified money grab and too often they don't pit the best two teams against each other.

3. Each power conference team is required to play two other power 5 schools or a group of 5 school that finished the previous year within the top 25 rankings. No more predetermined layup schedules and no FCS teams in the regular season. I don't mind an easy 1st weekend game because the quality of football isn't that great to start off.

4. Select the best 8 teams with some but minimal emphasis placed on conference champions. There will be years in which one conference isn't deserving of a spot, so be it.

5. Oh and here is my kicker, select a week late in the season and deem it non-conference week. Play out of conference foes when you are playing good football. I would also love to see southern teams travel north as well as northern teams travel south.

I love it!!!!!!! Git-r-dun!!!!!! :thumbup:

kaldaniels

12-09-2015, 02:46 PM

The only way all this bickering will ever stop is if they finally establish the "haves" and "have-nots" as far as power schools go and those schools only play each other. Every good team in college football has its schedule composed of a mimimum of 50% cream puffs where the result is never in doubt. Let the good schools play each other and decide who is best on the field. Now don't ask me where you draw the line, but it needs to be done. It might not be popular but I'm pretty much done with tradition (ahem, conferences)...let there be a complete revamp. Let's get this right.

Boston Red

12-09-2015, 02:49 PM

kaldaniels

12-09-2015, 02:52 PM

Imagine how badly this would get screwed up. Syracuse, Wake, Oregon State, Vandy, you're in! Boise State, BYU, Houston, you're out!

Gotta break a few eggs to make an omelet.

Boston Red

12-09-2015, 02:54 PM

Gotta break a few eggs to make an omelet.

Agree. Let's put Vandy, Wake, et al at the kiddy table and promote Boise, BYU, etc.

bucksfan2

12-09-2015, 03:00 PM

Imagine how badly this would get screwed up. Syracuse, Wake, Oregon State, Vandy, you're in! Boise State, BYU, Houston, you're out!

Looks like Notre Dame's scheduling philosophy!

Chip R

12-09-2015, 03:27 PM

Hell, I just want a even and level playing field.

It's never going to be even or level until the elite teams from the Power 5 conferences break off and make their own NFL. That's going to mean doing away with tOSU playing Northwestern or Purdue and Bama playing Vandy and Kentucky. Then they won't even need polls or bowl games.

Boston Red

12-09-2015, 03:31 PM

It's never going to be even or level until the elite teams from the Power 5 conferences break off and make their own NFL.

Would people actually watch that? Yuck.

kaldaniels

12-09-2015, 03:33 PM

It's never going to be even or level until the elite teams from the Power 5 conferences break off and make their own NFL. That's going to mean doing away with tOSU playing Northwestern or Purdue and Bama playing Vandy and Kentucky. Then they won't even need polls or bowl games.

OSU hasn't played Purdue since 2013. Purdue's longest win streak against the Buckeyes is 2.

I could wipe my hands of that in an instant.

Chip R

12-09-2015, 03:35 PM

Would people actually watch that? Yuck.

You better believe they would.

Boston Red

12-09-2015, 03:44 PM

You better believe they would.

I don't think they would. Not in numbers as large as they currently do, at least. At that point, it's just a less talented version of the XFL.

Chip R

12-09-2015, 04:06 PM

I don't think they would. Not in numbers as large as they currently do, at least. At that point, it's just a less talented version of the XFL.

No. It's a less talented version of the NFL - which it is now. You don't think people would love to see tOSU and Michigan play each other home and home every year? Bama and Auburn? tOSU and Bama playing a game almost every year and maybe another one in the championship game? If SEC fans are crying about tOSU's schedule, you really think they would feel bad if tOSU stopped playing Purdue? It'd shut them up if tOSU played UM, Sparty and PSU twice and the remainder of the schedule looked like Florida State, Oregon, Wisconsin, USC, Texas, Bama, Louisville and Oklahoma?

Boston Red

12-09-2015, 04:11 PM

No. It's a less talented version of the NFL - which it is now.

No, there's a big difference between the NFL and college football based on tradition, conferences, and the whole identity with the university. If you make it more like the NFL in that respect, you lose the things about college football that make it "special" and cause people to ignore the fact that it's an inferior product to the NFL.

If they did what you're suggesting, I'd quit watching college football and just start watching the NFL.

kaldaniels

12-09-2015, 04:20 PM

bucksfan2

12-09-2015, 04:22 PM

I don't know your allegiance, but lets use the aforementioned OSU-Purdue as an example.

What early November game would you rather watch? OSU-Purdue, or say OSU-Stanford?

I will admit, this idea would devastate the athletic departments of the Purdues of the world...what unintended consequences would that bring...I don't know.

You lose tradition in college football and you lost a large portion of its fan base.

KronoRed

12-09-2015, 04:25 PM

You lose tradition in college football and you lost a large portion of its fan base.

Tradition is already being flushed, Rutgers and Maryland in the Big 10, Texas/Texas A&M and Kansas/Missouri no longer playing.

Fans are still coming.

kaldaniels

12-09-2015, 04:25 PM

Tradition is already being flushed, Rutgers and Maryland in the Big 10, Texas/Texas A&M and Kansas/Missouri no longer playing.

Fans are still coming.

Bingo.

*BaseClogger*

12-09-2015, 04:32 PM

Boston Red

12-09-2015, 04:47 PM

Tradition is already being flushed, Rutgers and Maryland in the Big 10, Texas/Texas A&M and Kansas/Missouri no longer playing.

Fans are still coming.

That's a bit different than completely dumping the whole concept of a Big Ten or an ACC, etc. and sending Purdue, Indiana and the like to the trash heap.

Chip R

12-09-2015, 04:49 PM

No, there's a big difference between the NFL and college football based on tradition, conferences, and the whole identity with the university. If you make it more like the NFL in that respect, you lose the things about college football that make it "special" and cause people to ignore the fact that it's an inferior product to the NFL.

If they did what you're suggesting, I'd quit watching college football and just start watching the NFL.

The XFL was basically a wedding between AAA football and pro-wrestling. The emphasis was on cheerleaders in skimpy outfits, and things the NFL no longer allowed like colorful celebrations and violent hits.

This would still be college football but instead of an elite team playing a FCS team or a bottom FBS team, they are playing elite competition every week. How "special" was it back in the 70s when tOSU and Michigan were beating the Purdues and the Iowas and the Wisconsins 52-7 every week? How "special" is it when it takes a playoff for Bama and tOSU to play? I'll bet if you talked to any tOSU season ticket holder and told them that tOSU would no longer be playing Purdue and Northwestern and Illinois any more as long as they got better games to watch - or even any kind of games - to replace them, they wouldn't care one bit.

Assembly Hall

12-09-2015, 05:16 PM

Looks like Notre Dame's scheduling philosophy!

Quite a few schools could take a lesson from how ND schedules.

traderumor

12-09-2015, 05:34 PM

The hardest part of designing any kind of system in college is that the haves and have nots is fluid, not static. Of course, the perennial powers are called that for a reason, but there are fewer and fewer programs like that. For example, Michigan. It has fallen off its perch and is still trying to regain status, but at one point they were on the short list. Same thing with Texas. Who would have thought they would become a have not?

I think it really comes down to shortening the regular season, expanding the playoff field to 16, and not penalizing the big boys for playing each other with the risk of loss and done for NC considerations. I do like the earlier proposal, but I still don't think 8 teams is enough. It would be better, but would still leave out too many qualified candidates.

Sea Ray

12-09-2015, 05:35 PM

Quite a few schools could take a lesson from how ND schedules.

You can't compare power 5 schools with an independent. Two completely different animals

kaldaniels

12-09-2015, 05:40 PM

traderumor

12-09-2015, 05:42 PM

Let's be honest there is a lot of fat to be trimmed.

And Michigan and Texas were never close to being a program that would be trimmed. Just a down spell for them.

What I'm saying is that identifying the squads in the super duper NCAA league would be like herding cats.

IslandRed

12-09-2015, 05:49 PM

I do disagree with whoever said that Connor Cook is the best QB Alabama will have faced this year. He's the best NFL style QB but he's not the best college QB and that's what counts at this level. It's the dual threats that are most dangerous in college. I'd argue that Ole Miss, Miss St and yes, Tennessee had harder QBs to defend than Connor Cook. Were I an NFL exec on draft day, I'd draft Cook before any of those 3 but that's not what we're talking about here

Just my opinion, but I don't think anybody's beating Alabama with the run game this year, with or without a dual threat QB. That run defense is just dominant, sustained drives will be few and far between. To score more than 13-14 points against them without turnover luck, someone's going to have to hurt them down the field the way Kelly did for Ole Miss that day.

What early November game would you rather watch? OSU-Purdue, or say OSU-Stanford?

OSU-Stanford, of course. But for everything gained there's something lost. It brings to mind a paraphrase of a line from "The Incredibles" -- when every game is special, none of them are. Make it a closed system and suddenly OSU-Stanford becomes Seahawks-Packers. A nice game, but ultimately just another regular-season game.

KronoRed

12-09-2015, 06:17 PM

Assembly Hall

12-09-2015, 06:29 PM

You can't compare power 5 schools with an independent. Two completely different animals

Yeah, Notre Dame can play a tough schedule........no North Texas State's or Louisiana Monroes's on theirs. The Power 5 can do that as well if they choose to.

Boston Red

12-09-2015, 06:29 PM

Notre Dame played UMass. Same thing.

BuckeyeRed27

12-09-2015, 06:41 PM

Promotion/Relegation system? off the wall idea but it could work.

College football is set up so beautifully for it. It is the answer, but it will never happen.

dabvu2498

12-09-2015, 06:44 PM

Yeah, Notre Dame can play a tough schedule........no North Texas State's or Louisiana Monroes's on theirs. The Power 5 can do that as well if they choose to.

UMass?

Assembly Hall

12-09-2015, 06:48 PM

Notre Dame played UMass. Same thing.

Waiting for someone to come up with that one. How about 'Bama.....Middle Tennessee, Louisiana-Monroe, and Charleston Southern. That is in one freaking year and this one no less. Notre Dame played one "chippy", but for God's sake UMass is better than the three the Tide played. They all need to look in the mirror.

Assembly Hall

12-09-2015, 06:51 PM

UMass?

Better than Austin Peay wouldn't you say? And you guys had Middle Tennessee as well.

dabvu2498

12-09-2015, 07:41 PM

Better than Austin Peay wouldn't you say? And you guys had Middle Tennessee as well.

Don't let name recognition be confused with "quality." Boston College? Wake Forest? Georgia Tech? Texas even? Not very good. When that schedule was made, most probably thought Temple was a chippie as well.

That ACC tie in makes NDs schedule look snazzy, but most computer metrics have Alabama playing as tough or a tougher schedule that ND played.

It also hasn't been that long ago that ND was playing all three service academies in heavy rotation with a strong dose of Nevada and Tulsa and USF (and Purdue for that matter) thrown in.

Boston Red

12-09-2015, 07:42 PM

Tulsa and USF

Why do you have to bring up ND losses?

Chip R

12-09-2015, 07:55 PM

Promotion/Relegation system? off the wall idea but it could work.

Maybe just promotion. You start with, say, 24 teams and go with that for a while. If teams seem worthy, you could expand to 32.as for figuring out who belongs and who doesn't, have each school who wants to be included put up $50M as an entry fee.

Assembly Hall

12-09-2015, 08:14 PM

Don't let name recognition be confused with "quality." Boston College? Wake Forest? Georgia Tech? Texas even? Not very good. When that schedule was made, most probably thought Temple was a chippie as well.

That ACC tie in makes NDs schedule look snazzy, but most computer metrics have Alabama playing as tough or a tougher schedule that ND played.

It also hasn't been that long ago that ND was playing all three service academies in heavy rotation with a strong dose of Nevada and Tulsa and USF (and Purdue for that matter) thrown in.

Well call it for what you want to. How many FCS schools were on their schedule? Last time I checked the Irish got beat by Clemson and Stanford. Hmmmmmmm, who did 'Bama play?

jojo

12-09-2015, 08:27 PM

Well call it for what you want to. How many FCS schools were on their schedule? Last time I checked the Irish got beat by Clemson and Stanford. Hmmmmmmm, who did 'Bama play?

This might be the silliest question ever posed because of the fatally flawed premise that it assumes in the asking. Bama played one toughest schedules in the country and is in the toughest division in the country this year.

BuckeyeRed27

12-09-2015, 08:29 PM

Maybe just promotion. You start with, say, 24 teams and go with that for a while. If teams seem worthy, you could expand to 32.as for figuring out who belongs and who doesn't, have each school who wants to be included put up $50M as an entry fee.

That doesn't really seem to fix the issue though. That is just the same system as now with less teams and gives no incentive for the lower teams to invest or compete.

dabvu2498

12-09-2015, 08:57 PM

Well call it for what you want to. How many FCS schools were on their schedule? Last time I checked the Irish got beat by Clemson and Stanford. Hmmmmmmm, who did 'Bama play?

There's a compilation of all computer rankings that's called the Massey Ratings. http://www.masseyratings.com/cf/compare.htm

I took all of Alabamaand ND opponents rankings (Charleston Southern is not listed, but they were #8 ranked FCS team and are still alive in FCS quarter finals. So I rounded them down to be ranked 140.).

Average rank of opponents:

Alabama: 46.23
Notre Dame: 52.25

villain612

12-09-2015, 10:52 PM

Why are we calling for major changes to college football? It's certainly an imperfect system...but it always has been.

It won't and shouldn't ever be NFL-lite.

IslandRed

12-09-2015, 10:56 PM

(Charleston Southern is not listed, but they were #8 ranked FCS team and are still alive in FCS quarter finals. So I rounded them down to be ranked 140.)

Not that I care about the Bama-versus-ND question, but if we're going for accuracy, it would be a mistake to assume FCS starts where FBS stops. Teams good enough to make the FCS playoffs are usually as good or better than the bottom half of the Group of 5 FBS conferences, and the very best FCS teams can usually give half-decent Power 5 teams a game if they get the chance.

dabvu2498

12-09-2015, 11:07 PM

Not that I care about the Bama-versus-ND question, but if we're going for accuracy, it would be a mistake to assume FCS starts where FBS stops. Teams good enough to make the FCS playoffs are usually as good or better than the bottom half of the Group of 5 FBS conferences, and the very best FCS teams can usually give half-decent Power 5 teams a game if they get the chance.

Totally agree. I rounded CSU down for effect as much as anything. Sagarin has them at 119. (UMass at 139, FWIW)

Sea Ray

12-09-2015, 11:24 PM

Yeah, Notre Dame can play a tough schedule........no North Texas State's or Louisiana Monroes's on theirs. The Power 5 can do that as well if they choose to.

The power 5 have very few options. They're tied into 8 games every year. ND is not

Sea Ray

12-09-2015, 11:31 PM

Waiting for someone to come up with that one. How about 'Bama.....Middle Tennessee, Louisiana-Monroe, and Charleston Southern. That is in one freaking year and this one no less. Notre Dame played one "chippy", but for God's sake UMass is better than the three the Tide played. They all need to look in the mirror.

Why pick on Alabama? They played the 4th toughest schedule in the country, far and away the toughest of any of the four in the playoff. Is that not good enough for you? ND played the 20th toughest. Mich St 44th

The current system doesn't incentivize playing more than one decent OOC team.

Boston Red

12-10-2015, 12:06 AM

The power 5 have very few options. They're tied into 8 games every year. ND is not

ND is tied into 7. 5 ACC, Navy and USC.

Assembly Hall

12-10-2015, 09:33 AM

Why pick on Alabama? They played the 4th toughest schedule in the country, far and away the toughest of any of the four in the playoff. Is that not good enough for you? ND played the 20th toughest. Mich St 44th

The current system doesn't incentivize playing more than one decent OOC team.

I am not picking on 'Bama, all the Power 5 schools pretty much do it.

Sea Ray

12-10-2015, 09:48 AM

I am not picking on 'Bama, all the Power 5 schools pretty much do it.

You most certainly were picking on Alabama when you specifically mentioned the 3 patsies on their schedule. With all the other tough games, they're entitled to 3 patsies. It's not like they were 2 TD+ favorites in 11 of their 12 games this year

Sea Ray

12-10-2015, 09:53 AM

ND is tied into 7. 5 ACC, Navy and USC.

As an independent, ND is free sign whatever alliances they choose. Yes they did sign onto to the ACC agreement as well as USC and Navy. But they didn't have to sign onto any of those. As an independent they had that freedom to do so

Chip R

12-10-2015, 10:02 AM

That doesn't really seem to fix the issue though. That is just the same system as now with less teams and gives no incentive for the lower teams to invest or compete.

Who cares if the lower teams don't invest and compete? As I said, you start out with 24 teams and go from there. If a school like Virginia Tech comes along and meets whatever qualifications there are, you expand just like any pro league does. If there are teams that are already in that are going through a tough stretch - like Nebraska - you don't kick them out. The NFL isn't kicking the Browns out anytime soon. And it's not the same system at all. You can't load up your schedule on weak non-conference teams and you aren't playing weak conference teams. Maybe you don't go 12-0 anymore. Maybe you go 10-4 in your regular season but that 10-4 against the elite looks a lot better than 12-0 against maybe one or two good teams.

Assembly Hall

12-10-2015, 10:11 AM

You most certainly were picking on Alabama when you specifically mentioned the 3 patsies on their schedule. With all the other tough games, they're entitled to 3 patsies. It's not like they were 2 TD+ favorites in 11 of their 12 games this year

Let me ask you this.......when you are a consensus Top 5 pick every year, why are you playing 3 patsies? Heck, even my Hoosiers only played 2.

Sea Ray

12-10-2015, 10:48 AM

Let me ask you this.......when you are a consensus Top 5 pick every year, why are you playing 3 patsies? Heck, even my Hoosiers only played 2.

There's no one as good as Wisconsin on Indiana's schedule. I'd much rather Alabama play Wisc and 3 patsies than play Indiana's non conference schedule.

Again, Alabama's already playing the 4th toughest schedule in the country. Why isn't that good enough? Do they really have to play the #1 schedule?

Assembly Hall

12-10-2015, 11:52 AM

There's no one as good as Wisconsin on Indiana's schedule. I'd much rather Alabama play Wisc and 3 patsies than play Indiana's non conference schedule.

Again, Alabama's already playing the 4th toughest schedule in the country. Why isn't that good enough? Do they really have to play the #1 schedule?

I am tired of hearing about the SoS. Let me use Mississippi St. as an example. Most services have them 10 or so slots above Sparty. Hmmmmmmm. Let me see the Bulldogs played 4 cupcakes and finished 4-4 in SEC play. They beat 2 teams on their side, Auburn and Arky. Then they beat Mizzou and UK on the other side. Impressive. Now let's take a look at Sparty. They defeated Oregon and Air Force as well as Western Mi, and Central Michigan from the MAC in OOC play. They played @Michigan, @tOSU, IU and Penn St. at home. To top it off they beat Iowa in the B1G title game.

Now you tell me how in the hell, Miss. St.'s Sos is better than Sparty's.

redrum

12-10-2015, 12:14 PM

I am tired of hearing about the SoS. Let me use Mississippi St. as an example. Most services have them 10 or so slots above Sparty. Hmmmmmmm. Let me see the Bulldogs played 4 cupcakes and finished 4-4 in SEC play. They beat 2 teams on their side, Auburn and Arky. Then they beat Mizzou and UK on the other side. Impressive. Now let's take a look at Sparty. They defeated Oregon and Air Force as well as Western Mi, and Central Michigan from the MAC in OOC play. They played @Michigan, @tOSU, IU and Penn St. at home. To top it off they beat Iowa in the B1G title game.

Now you tell me how in the hell, Miss. St.'s Sos is better than Sparty's.

By any intellectually honest analysis it is easy to see that SOS is a flawed metric. Conferences are basically a closed system as up until the bowl games as there are very few out-of-conference opponents are of any significance - this is certainly true in the SEC (not trying to pick on the SEC, just pointing out a fact). So Alabama's 2015 SOS is built entirely on the subjective opinion that collectively the SEC is made up of strong teams. I certainly believe this to be true - primarily due to historical reasons as well as the (again subjective) strength of the SEC recruiting classes, but last year's bowl results left some reason for doubt.

Sea Ray

12-10-2015, 12:20 PM

I am tired of hearing about the SoS. Let me use Mississippi St. as an example. Most services have them 10 or so slots above Sparty. Hmmmmmmm. Let me see the Bulldogs played 4 cupcakes and finished 4-4 in SEC play. They beat 2 teams on their side, Auburn and Arky. Then they beat Mizzou and UK on the other side. Impressive. Now let's take a look at Sparty. They defeated Oregon and Air Force as well as Western Mi, and Central Michigan from the MAC in OOC play. They played @Michigan, @tOSU, IU and Penn St. at home. To top it off they beat Iowa in the B1G title game.

Now you tell me how in the hell, Miss. St.'s Sos is better than Sparty's.

Strength of Schedule is not about who you beat but who you play. They had an 8-4 season yet they finished next to last in the SEC West. That means that they played 5 pretty darn good teams ahead of them. Sparty played two pretty good Big Ten teams, OSU and MI and that was pretty much it. The computers take all this into consideration. Hard to argue with them

Sea Ray

12-10-2015, 12:23 PM

By any intellectually honest analysis it is easy to see that SOS is a flawed metric. Conferences are basically a closed system as up until the bowl games as there are very few out-of-conference opponents are of any significance - this is certainly true in the SEC (not trying to pick on the SEC, just pointing out a fact). So Alabama's 2015 SOS is built entirely on the subjective opinion that collectively the SEC is made up of strong teams. I certainly believe this to be true - primarily due to historical reasons as well as the (again subjective) strength of the SEC recruiting classes, but last year's bowl results left some reason for doubt.

You make a good point that this is a flawed metric due to the closed system and very few OOC games but there's nothing subjective about the SEC. The computers look upon them favorably due to how they performed in their OOC games

Assembly Hall

12-10-2015, 12:26 PM

Strength of Schedule is not about who you beat but who you play. They had an 8-4 season yet they finished next to last in the SEC West. That means that they played 5 pretty darn good teams ahead of them. Sparty played two pretty good Big Ten teams, OSU and MI and that was pretty much it. The computers take all this into consideration. Hard to argue with them

Yeah whatever. They played 5 pretty good B1G teams. Somehow you forgot about Iowa, Penn St., and IU. You also forgot they beat Oregon and Air Force(who plays Cal in a bowl). Pretty easy to argue against them.

Sea Ray

12-10-2015, 12:32 PM

Yeah whatever. They played 5 pretty good B1G teams. Somehow you forgot about Iowa, Penn St., and IU. You also forgot they beat Oregon and Air Force(who plays Cal in a bowl). Pretty easy to argue against them.

I'm sure Jeff figured all those games into his calculations.

I don't think many folks outside of your state consider IU a good team but I am very curious to see how they fare in their Bowl game. From what I can tell, they can score a lot of points but their defense is just as bad as the O is good. Kind of reminds me of Bowling Green. In the end they only managed 2 wins in the Big Ten. This is the formula UK used for years to get to the Music City Bowl. I don't think many outside of Lexington were impressed

BuckeyeRed27

12-10-2015, 12:35 PM

Who cares if the lower teams don't invest and compete? As I said, you start out with 24 teams and go from there. If a school like Virginia Tech comes along and meets whatever qualifications there are, you expand just like any pro league does. If there are teams that are already in that are going through a tough stretch - like Nebraska - you don't kick them out. The NFL isn't kicking the Browns out anytime soon. And it's not the same system at all. You can't load up your schedule on weak non-conference teams and you aren't playing weak conference teams. Maybe you don't go 12-0 anymore. Maybe you go 10-4 in your regular season but that 10-4 against the elite looks a lot better than 12-0 against maybe one or two good teams.

Ok, but that isn't a promotion system. That is an arbitrary system that doesn't guarantee anything. The idea of promotion/relegation is it gives an avenue to every single team. So if Boise State or Houston or Temple want to invest in a coach and facilities and recruiting they know for sure that within a few seasons they will be playing Ohio State and Alabama. What guarantees do they have in what you are proposing?

Nebraska probably isn't a great example because even in their tough stretch they would most likely still be a top tier team. A better example are teams like Purdue who get the benefit of being a "Power 5" team but haven't done anything in over a decade.

Assembly Hall

12-10-2015, 12:39 PM

I don't think many folks outside of your state consider IU a good team

Well we got the perfect platform to do it in. What do you say Buckeye fans?

BuckeyeRed27

12-10-2015, 12:50 PM

Well we got the perfect platform to do it in. What do you say Buckeye fans?

I don't think Sea Ray's assessment is far off. They have a nice offense and are dangerous, but are really lacking on defense. Can't really consider them an upper half of the Big 10 until they can stop teams from scoring a little better. They are a lot better than they were just a few years ago, but as an OSU fan I certainly expect to beat them by a few TDs. They have certainly played us tough the last few years however and seem to be on the verge, but haven't gotten over the hump.

Sea Ray

12-10-2015, 12:55 PM

redrum

12-10-2015, 01:07 PM

You make a good point that this is a flawed metric due to the closed system and very few OOC games but there's nothing subjective about the SEC. The computers look upon them favorably due to how they performed in their OOC games

You make a good point that this is a flawed metric due to the closed system and very few OOC games but there's nothing subjective about the SEC. The computers look upon them favorably due to how they performed in their OOC games

I'm sorry, but I fail to see how their OOC performance in 2015 is all that stellar. The OOC schedule for the SEC West was one of the weakest around and it's not like they collectively rolled the competition when there was any. I still contend that overall strength of strength of schedule for the SEC is based purely on the opinion that the SEC is strong with not many facts to back it up. It is nothing but subjective.

My rundown of the OOC games of note (admittedly it also contains opinions).

Alabama beat a good/decent B1G team (Wisconsin), but other than that nothing else stands out. And the fact that Alabama was far and away the best SEC team this does little to promote the conference as a whole.
Ole Miss played one decent OOC team and lost to them (Memphis)
Arkansas (who finished 3rd in the SEC west) was 2-2 in OOC games, losing to a 3rd place MAC team (Toledo) and a middling Big 12 team (Texas Tech).
LSU beat a poor MAC team (EMU) and a middling ACC team.
Texas A&M beat a middling Pac10 team, a bad MAC team, middling MW team
Mississippi state didn't play anyone
Auburn beat a decent ACC team (Louisville) and a middling MW team

Hoosier Red

12-10-2015, 01:23 PM

Turning down a bowl bid is stupid. Not only is it a cool experience for the players, but it gives you another couple of weeks of practice. Young teams experience tremendous growth during the bowl season practice.

Exactly, it's like turning down an NIT invitation. Declaring that the program should be "above" such things is counterproductive.

Hoosier Red

12-10-2015, 01:26 PM

It seems like upgrading the defense is the hardest step for football teams trying to become relevant. It happened at UK under Hal Mumme and Tim Couch. We've seen countless other programs that can score with the best of them but the defense is horrible. Most teams never do get over this hump.

That's because imo, you can make an offense go with "skilled" guys rather than "athletes" and there are a lot more guys who can make one skill really work on offense.

Off the top of my head I can think of 10 guys who were high level quarterbacks and/or wide receivers in college who had no pro prospects. (And countless more who had to change positions.)

I struggle to think of nearly as many guys who were defensive wrecking balls in college but couldn't hack it in the NFL.

That's also why I don't think you see as many "gimmick" defenses, either in college or in the pros.

Chip R

12-10-2015, 01:27 PM

Ok, but that isn't a promotion system. That is an arbitrary system that doesn't guarantee anything. The idea of promotion/relegation is it gives an avenue to every single team. So if Boise State or Houston or Temple want to invest in a coach and facilities and recruiting they know for sure that within a few seasons they will be playing Ohio State and Alabama. What guarantees do they have in what you are proposing?

They don't. This is for the big boys only and if Boise State or Houston or Temple can't get in, too bad. I'm just doing this off the top of my head but that's why I proposed a $50M entry fee. This is for the schools who have the tradition, the facilities, the record and the fan support. I'm guessing a $50M entry fee is going to be too rich for the Houstons, the Boise States and the Temples. I'd think long and hard about including a school like Miami because of their lack of fan support. You want elite vs. elite every week. Even if some of the programs fall on hard times - like Notre Dame pre-Kelly - these programs are going to guarantee full houses and TV ratings.

Nebraska probably isn't a great example because even in their tough stretch they would most likely still be a top tier team. A better example are teams like Purdue who get the benefit of being a "Power 5" team but haven't done anything in over a decade.

Nebraska would be a program that would be on the bubble of inclusion. While they have fallen on hard times lately, they have tradition and they sell out every game.

Here are my locks and maybes

Locks:
tOSU
Michigan
Texas
ND
Texas A&M
Bama
Auburn
LSU
USC
UCLA
FSU
Oklahoma
Oregon
Florida

The Maybes:
Nebraska
Wisconsin
Iowa
Tennessee
Georgia
N. Carolina
Clemson
Stanford
Oklahoma St.
Miami
Penn State
Michigan State
Pitt
Virginia Tech
Washington
BYU
Baylor

Boston Red

12-10-2015, 01:33 PM

I have heard some terrible ideas in my time. This may be the worst. Donald Trump thinks it would be political suicide to endorse this plan.

Sea Ray

12-10-2015, 01:53 PM

I'm sorry, but I fail to see how their OOC performance in 2015 is all that stellar. The OOC schedule for the SEC West was one of the weakest around and it's not like they collectively rolled the competition when there was any. I still contend that overall strength of strength of schedule for the SEC is based purely on the opinion that the SEC is strong with not many facts to back it up. It is nothing but subjective.

My rundown of the OOC games of note (admittedly it also contains opinions).

Alabama beat a good/decent B1G team (Wisconsin), but other than that nothing else stands out. And the fact that Alabama was far and away the best SEC team this does little to promote the conference as a whole.
Ole Miss played one decent OOC team and lost to them (Memphis)
Arkansas (who finished 3rd in the SEC west) was 2-2 in OOC games, losing to a 3rd place MAC team (Toledo) and a middling Big 12 team (Texas Tech).
LSU beat a poor MAC team (EMU) and a middling ACC team.
Texas A&M beat a middling Pac10 team, a bad MAC team, middling MW team
Mississippi state didn't play anyone
Auburn beat a decent ACC team (Louisville) and a middling MW team

The conference beat North Carolina, Bowling Green, Arizona ST, and BYU. Add those teams to the list you mentioned above and it looks awfully good to a computer

Sea Ray

12-10-2015, 01:55 PM

That's because imo, you can make an offense go with "skilled" guys rather than "athletes" and there are a lot more guys who can make one skill really work on offense.

Off the top of my head I can think of 10 guys who were high level quarterbacks and/or wide receivers in college who had no pro prospects. (And countless more who had to change positions.)

I struggle to think of nearly as many guys who were defensive wrecking balls in college but couldn't hack it in the NFL.

That's also why I don't think you see as many "gimmick" defenses, either in college or in the pros.

I think it's because the tendency is to put the best athletes on offense and the smaller schools only have "so many" stellar athletes

Sea Ray

12-10-2015, 01:58 PM

They don't. This is for the big boys only and if Boise State or Houston or Temple can't get in, too bad. I'm just doing this off the top of my head but that's why I proposed a $50M entry fee. This is for the schools who have the tradition, the facilities, the record and the fan support. I'm guessing a $50M entry fee is going to be too rich for the Houstons, the Boise States and the Temples. I'd think long and hard about including a school like Miami because of their lack of fan support. You want elite vs. elite every week. Even if some of the programs fall on hard times - like Notre Dame pre-Kelly - these programs are going to guarantee full houses and TV ratings.

Nebraska would be a program that would be on the bubble of inclusion. While they have fallen on hard times lately, they have tradition and they sell out every game.

Here are my locks and maybes

Locks:
tOSU
Michigan
Texas
ND
Texas A&M
Bama
Auburn
LSU
USC
UCLA
FSU
Oklahoma
Oregon
Florida

The Maybes:
Nebraska
Wisconsin
Iowa
Tennessee
Georgia
N. Carolina
Clemson
Stanford
Oklahoma St.
Miami
Penn State
Michigan State
Pitt
Virginia Tech
Washington
BYU
Baylor

The Tennessee athletic program made a profit of $70mill last year. How are they a maybe?

Regardless, I don't want to see anything like this plan. I want all 100 or so teams able to compete.

Hoosier Red

12-10-2015, 01:58 PM

I think it's because the tendency is to put the best athletes on offense and the smaller schools only have "so many" stellar athletes

That could be it too. I've often bemoaned IU's long rotations of Wide Receivers and short rotation of capable Defensive backs. I often find myself wishing that every one who could play DB was put at DB.

Hoosier Red

12-10-2015, 02:01 PM

The Tennessee athletic program made a profit of $70mill last year. How are they a maybe?

Regardless, I don't want to see anything like this plan. I want all 100 or so teams able to compete.

"Compete" is a funny word because if you ask 100 different athletic directors, you'll get 200 different answers as to what it means.

I've heard many people argue for a "more level playing field" but in reality, the only way the playing field gets more level is that the top 10 teams become less powerful. I'm not sure I'd like how that looked in the long run.

Chip R

12-10-2015, 03:25 PM

The Tennessee athletic program made a profit of $70mill last year. How are they a maybe?

Regardless, I don't want to see anything like this plan. I want all 100 or so teams able to compete.

I didn't say they were out. The locks are the teams you absolutely, definitely know would be included. UT has fallen on some rough times lately in their football program. Much like Nebraska they sell out every game and have great tradition and name recognition but as of now they aren't an elite football program. Doesn't mean they would be out but they certainly aren't a mortal lock.

If you think 100 or so teams are competing right now, you're kidding yourself. Hey, if you're happy with your team going to the Poulan Weedeater Bowl every year or going 11-1 or 9-3 against mostly mediocre competition, good for you. I'm sure they are dancing in the streets in Auburn at their 6-6 record and the prospect of playing Memphis in the Birmingham Bowl. At least it's within driving distance for their fans. Getting tickets will be easy too.

BuckeyeRed27

12-10-2015, 03:34 PM

I think the college football regular season could use a lot of adjustments, but I'm not a big fan of your plan. I wouldn't want to trade games against Wisconsin, Minnesota and Penn St to play Alabama, Texas and USC every season. There is a lot of tradition in college football that you lose with that plan.

I do think making tiers and setting up a pro/reg system makes a lot of sense, but you can do that with 48 teams or so and still give everyone a shot to move up and down.

redrum

12-10-2015, 03:36 PM

The conference beat North Carolina, Bowling Green, Arizona ST, and BYU. Add those teams to the list you mentioned above and it looks awfully good to a computer

So those are the best of the SEC East wins? What turned out to be a good ACC team (in the first game of the season), the MAC champion, another middling Pac 10 team and an independent that got blown out by Michigan. It is not an impressive list in my opinion. I'm not saying other conferences were better, I'm just saying that alone is not enough to 'determine' that the SEC is collectively stronger than any other of the big 5 conferences - especially considering how poorly the SEC fared last year in bowl games against ranked teams.

I do still think that from top to bottom the SEC West is still the strongest, but again that is an opinion. I see no evidence in the OOC victories to support it. All I'm saying is the SOC is built on the back of such an opinion. When the data is entered into the system at the beginning of the season a subjective ranking is given to the teams. Since conferences do not play strong OOC schedules there is no way for it to completely correct itself.

Sea Ray

12-10-2015, 03:41 PM

I didn't say they were out. The locks are the teams you absolutely, definitely know would be included. UT has fallen on some rough times lately in their football program. Much like Nebraska they sell out every game and have great tradition and name recognition but as of now they aren't an elite football program. Doesn't mean they would be out but they certainly aren't a mortal lock.

If you think 100 or so teams are competing right now, you're kidding yourself. Hey, if you're happy with your team going to the Poulan Weedeater Bowl every year or going 11-1 or 9-3 against mostly mediocre competition, good for you. I'm sure they are dancing in the streets in Auburn at their 6-6 record and the prospect of playing Memphis in the Birmingham Bowl. At least it's within driving distance for their fans. Getting tickets will be easy too.

I want all 100 teams to have a chance, that's all. Just because UK, Vandy and Northwestern have no chance is no reason to not include them. Northwestern can still play in the Rose Bowl every now and then. Why take that away from them?

Sea Ray

12-10-2015, 03:44 PM

In the last couple of seasons the SEC has come back to the pack, no question.

Chip R

12-10-2015, 04:13 PM

I want all 100 teams to have a chance, that's all. Just because UK, Vandy and Northwestern have no chance is no reason to not include them. Northwestern can still play in the Rose Bowl every now and then. Why take that away from them?

But they don't have a chance. That's the point. Why include them if they have no chance? Northwestern can still go to the Rose Bowl or any other bowl that will have them. While they are having a nice season, they simply don't make the grade. Their tradition is basically getting pounded by the rest of the Big 10. They have a small stadium and don't sell out. Plus I doubt they would want to ante up to join even if they met the other criteria.

Assembly Hall

12-10-2015, 04:28 PM

In the last couple of seasons the SEC has come back to the pack, no question.

Back to the pack? LOL.....I would say having a 4 team play-off has evened the field a tad.

Sea Ray

12-10-2015, 04:36 PM

Back to the pack? LOL.....I would say having a 4 team play-off has evened the field a tad.

The playoff has nothing to do with it. The conference isn't as dominant as it was a few yrs ago but it had to change eventually. I'm amazed at how long the dominance lasted

Assembly Hall

12-10-2015, 04:44 PM

The playoff has nothing to do with it. The conference isn't as dominant as it was a few yrs ago but it had to change eventually. I'm amazed at how long the dominance lasted

If there were only two teams last year, who would they have been?

redrum

12-10-2015, 06:38 PM

The playoff has nothing to do with it. The conference isn't as dominant as it was a few yrs ago but it had to change eventually. I'm amazed at how long the dominance lasted

No question that over the past few decades the SEC has been the dominant conference. You only have to look at the makeup of the of the NFL rosters and check how well they have historically done in meaningful bowl games. The road to the National Championship is tougher now, having to win 2 consecutive games against elite competition, so it is possible they will win less hardware, but that is not a great way of judging a conference strength. The National Championship is a team accomplishment rather than a conference accomplishment - and even then there is a lot of luck (or timing) involved in running the gauntlet. Does the best team always win the Superbowl or the World Series?

Has the SEC fallen back with the pack? Probably so to a degree. I still think top to bottom it is the toughest conference, and they will put a strong contender into the playoffs every year for the foreseeable future. Was their run of utter dominance unprecedented? Unquestionably.

traderumor

12-10-2015, 07:01 PM

If there were only two teams last year, who would they have been?

Yup, the two teams that Ohio State beat.

BuckeyeRed27

12-10-2015, 07:21 PM

Yup, the two teams that Ohio State beat.

Probably would have been Florida State and Alabama actually.

traderumor

12-10-2015, 07:27 PM

Probably would have been Florida State and Alabama actually.

Sad to say you're probably right, because they were undefeated.

Assembly Hall

12-10-2015, 07:35 PM

Sad to say you're probably right, because they were undefeated.

Yep, it would have been FSU and Bama. And Bama crushing the 'Noles. Didnt work out that way because of the format.

Assembly Hall

12-10-2015, 07:42 PM

No question that over the past few decades the SEC has been the dominant conference. You only have to look at the makeup of the of the NFL rosters and check how well they have historically done in meaningful bowl games. The road to the National Championship is tougher now, having to win 2 consecutive games against elite competition, so it is possible they will win less hardware, but that is not a great way of judging a conference strength. The National Championship is a team accomplishment rather than a conference accomplishment - and even then there is a lot of luck (or timing) involved in running the gauntlet. Does the best team always win the Superbowl or the World Series?

Has the SEC fallen back with the pack? Probably so to a degree. I still think top to bottom it is the toughest conference, and they will put a strong contender into the playoffs every year for the foreseeable future. Was their run of utter dominance unprecedented? Unquestionably.

Love that post. I concur that top to bottom the SEC is the best conference. The problem with them anymore is at the top they are lacking.

Sea Ray

12-10-2015, 07:50 PM

Love that post. I concur that top to bottom the SEC is the best conference. The problem with them anymore is at the top they are lacking.

Alabama is lacking? We'll soon see

Assembly Hall

12-10-2015, 08:02 PM

Alabama is lacking? We'll soon see

Well SR, it "use" to be that Bama, LSU, Auburn, Georgia, Tennessee, and Florida were in the mix every year. Anymore it appears to me like it is the '70's SEC. Bama and every body else.

traderumor

12-10-2015, 09:34 PM

Alabama is lacking? We'll soon see

Their offense is not good. If MSU can score enough, they should be able to hold Bama

*BaseClogger*

12-11-2015, 06:59 PM

Their offense is not good. If MSU can score enough, they should be able to hold Bama

They have the potential Heisman winner at RB, but deep down somewhere I think you have a point I agree with...

traderumor

12-12-2015, 04:47 PM

They have the potential Heisman winner at RB, but deep down somewhere I think you have a point I agree with...

Their QB is awful. They won with FGs against a bad Auburn team and Henry had 100 carries to get 100 yards in the last game. And Heisman Scheisman.

Assembly Hall

12-15-2015, 10:46 AM

I thought this was a pretty good read........

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/eye-on-college-football/25409241/friday-five-coaches-who-did-the-best-job-in-2015

jojo

12-26-2015, 09:31 PM

Tom Servo

12-26-2015, 09:33 PM

Virgina Tech giving Frank Beamer a final game to remember.

Assembly Hall

12-26-2015, 10:38 PM

Sorry to see the Pinstripe Bowl go down the way that it did. Fun game and one where it's a shame someone had to lose though it's not clear that anybody actually did. You should be proud of your guys AH.

Thanks jojo. They had their chance in regulation(damn holder). We shall see what next year brings for the Hoosiers.

Sea Ray

12-28-2015, 11:23 AM

Thanks jojo. They had their chance in regulation(damn holder). We shall see what next year brings for the Hoosiers.

And this is the team that could beat UT? That run defense was atrocious and slow. Tennessee would run Camara, Hurd, Dobbs and rack up 400 yards w/o even putting the ball in the air. UT would be a horrible matchup for IU

Assembly Hall

12-28-2015, 11:36 AM

And this is the team that could beat UT? That run defense was atrocious and slow. Tennessee would run Camara, Hurd, Dobbs and rack up 400 yards w/o even putting the ball in the air. UT would be a horrible matchup for IU

Well our defense sucks...fwiw IU is only the 4th team in FBS history to have a 3,500 yard passer, two 1,000 yard rushers, and a receiver that had 1,000 yards in the same season. IU played tOSU well by stopping the run and daring them to pass. They would do the same against our Vols.

Sea Ray

12-28-2015, 11:41 AM

Well our defense sucks...fwiw IU is only the 4th team in FBS history to have a 3,500 yard passer, two 1,000 yard rushers, and a receiver that had 1,000 yards in the same season. IU played tOSU well by stopping the run and daring them to pass. They would do the same against our Vols.

Let's see how the Vols do against NW. That's their test

Assembly Hall

12-28-2015, 12:12 PM

Let's see how the Vols do against NW. That's their test

Really dont know what to make of this match-up. NW failed miserably against Michigan and Iowa, the Wolves beat them 38-0 at the "Big House" and Iowa smoked them 40-10 in Chi-town. However the 'Cats did beat Stanford, won @Duke, @Nebraska, and @Wisconsin. I cant wait for the game.

westofyou

12-28-2015, 12:54 PM

Wolves?

I've been a UM fan for 45 years and that's the first time I've heard them called that

Stop please

kaldaniels

12-28-2015, 01:01 PM

Wolves?

I've been a UM fan for 45 years and that's the first time I've heard them called that

Stop please

Speak for yourself. The passive-agressiveness in this thread is amazing. :D

Revering4Blue

12-28-2015, 01:29 PM

Talk about horrible run defense; how about UCLA? The Huskers looked like Turner Gill and company, circa '83, on the ground.

Also, thanks to the weather, the Sun Bowl was a letdown, as the anticipated Falk (WSU) vs. Kaaya (Miami) shootout never materialized.

Revering4Blue

12-28-2015, 01:52 PM

Indiana and former UAB RB Jordan Howard declares early for 2016 NFL Draft.

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/12/28/indiana-and-former-uab-rb-jordan-howard-declares-early-for-2016-nfl-draft/

Not at all surprising and a smart move.

Assembly Hall

12-28-2015, 02:10 PM

Wolves?

I've been a UM fan for 45 years and that's the first time I've heard them called that

Stop please

You need to get out of the house more!!!!!!!!

Assembly Hall

12-28-2015, 02:11 PM

Sea Ray

12-28-2015, 02:35 PM

Revering4Blue

12-28-2015, 02:58 PM

Virgina Tech giving Frank Beamer a final game to remember.

Beamer is a prime example of an A.D / Administration remaining supportive of a HC, even when his tenure begins with very few wins among several seasons. In today's climate, where several new hires are lucky to last four years, Beamer may have gotten canned prematurely, which is sad.

villain612

12-28-2015, 10:41 PM

Beamer is a prime example of an A.D / Administration remaining supportive of a HC, even when his tenure begins with very few wins among several seasons. In today's climate, where several new hires are lucky to last four years, Beamer may have gotten canned prematurely, which is sad.

I agree. I honestly think expectations of the boosters is where the real problems come along, influencing AD's to act quicker than they should.

I wonder how long a guy like Tom Osborne would've lasted in today's "national championship or bust" climate the seems to be developing. Everyone remembers his titles, but forget that it took him 21 years to get one. I wonder how high profile programs would treat him today, consistently pumping out 9 and 10 win seasons. He'd probably be labeled Tom "can't win the big one" Osborne in this media environment.

Just my $.02.

Assembly Hall

12-29-2015, 01:09 AM

I agree. I honestly think expectations of the boosters is where the real problems come along, influencing AD's to act quicker than they should.

I wonder how long a guy like Tom Osborne would've lasted in today's "national championship or bust" climate the seems to be developing. Everyone remembers his titles, but forget that it took him 21 years to get one. I wonder how high profile programs would treat him today, consistently pumping out 9 and 10 win seasons. He'd probably be labeled Tom "can't win the big one" Osborne in this media environment.

Just my $.02.

Let's ask Bo Pelini!!!!!!!!! Go Huskers!!!!!!!

Sea Ray

12-29-2015, 11:23 AM

Assembly Hall

12-29-2015, 11:35 AM

Booger MacFarland on Mike/Mike ESPN this morning said that Ole Miss and Tennessee were equal to or better than Mich St when asked if Mich St is the best team Alabama has faced this year. You go Booger!

This is the same Booger that wanted Miles out.

Sea Ray

12-29-2015, 11:41 AM

This is the same Booger that wanted Miles out.

Time will tell whether he was right on both accounts. As for Tenn, the time is just a few days

Sea Ray

12-29-2015, 04:07 PM

Slyder

12-29-2015, 08:20 PM

FU ACC!

- - - Updated - - -

and Baylor being Baylor gets a penalty for being a bunch of arrogant clowns.

Why didn't I go bigger in Draft Kings knowing Baylor... LOL.

jojo

12-29-2015, 09:41 PM

The bowl season has been pretty much unwatchable thus far. At what point did college football become defined by not making plays rather than making plays? Yucksters.

19braves77

12-30-2015, 01:52 AM

Texas Tech welcome to SEC football. If you cant tackle on defense your going to have a hard time.

jojo

12-30-2015, 02:10 AM

This bowl season has clinched it for me. The top 16 teams get into a playoff. Everybody else can get 3 weeks of december practice. The nation gets spared the grind of watching meaningless match ups played in front of sparse crowds.

Assembly Hall

12-30-2015, 10:50 AM

cumberlandreds

12-30-2015, 10:58 AM

What would ESPN do? LOL

More college basketball?

Assembly Hall

12-30-2015, 11:16 AM

More college basketball?

Nah, they would show more NBA!!!!! :eek:

jojo

12-30-2015, 11:23 AM

What would ESPN do? LOL

I think they should start a Wipeout league.

Assembly Hall

12-30-2015, 11:34 AM

I think they should start a Wipeout league.

LOL......ya know there are times when I really miss the 70's!!!!!!!!!

cumberlandreds

12-30-2015, 02:33 PM

Nah, they would show more NBA!!!!! :eek:

You are probably right about that. Yuck...........

villain612

12-31-2015, 09:32 AM

Just gonna go on record again and say I hate that the CFP is today on NYE. I bet ratings are down this year.

westofyou

12-31-2015, 10:55 AM

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/12/31/tcu-qb-trevone-boykin-arrested-after-reportedly-hitting-police-officer/

Texas Christian University star quarterback Trevone Boykin was arrested early Thursday morning in San Antonio after striking a bicycle patrol officer following a bar fight, San Antonio police said.

Assembly Hall

12-31-2015, 11:26 AM

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/12/31/tcu-qb-trevone-boykin-arrested-after-reportedly-hitting-police-officer/

Just saw that on ESPN...........unreal!!!!!!!!!!

jojo

12-31-2015, 11:31 AM

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/12/31/tcu-qb-trevone-boykin-arrested-after-reportedly-hitting-police-officer/

Lots of assaults going around yesterday apparently.

http://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/auburn-football/video-memphis-player-steals-game-ball/

KronoRed

12-31-2015, 04:12 PM

TCU and Baylor are following the SMU game plan.

jojo

12-31-2015, 09:15 PM

GO SPARTY!!!!!!!!!!!

KronoRed

12-31-2015, 11:30 PM

Right now MSU will be lucky to score any points, they look flat as hell and the refs are against them.

Tom Servo

12-31-2015, 11:47 PM

jeez, thanks for showing up Michigan State

19braves77

12-31-2015, 11:59 PM

Suck it Big Ten!! That last touchdown was for all the moron Ohio State fans that think they can compete.( I kid, I Kid)

Boston Red

01-01-2016, 12:00 AM

jeez, thanks for showing up Michigan State
I think they showed up. They're just not very good.

George Foster

01-01-2016, 12:26 AM

Boston Red

01-01-2016, 12:34 AM

I think it's pretty evenly matched. Maybe favor Alabama by a FG.

19braves77

01-01-2016, 12:35 AM

Alabama has now won more games in Dallas this season than the Cowboys.

Sea Ray

01-01-2016, 02:03 AM

Sea Ray

01-01-2016, 02:04 AM

Clemson is good and should be in the Championship game, but they can't score enough points to stay with Bama. Bama with the Heisman trophy winner just eats to much clock. Bama's defense does not get enough credit either.

The playoff system this year was a waste of time. Might as well have just matched up Clemson and Alabama and let the other teams play amongst themselves

RedTeamGo!

01-01-2016, 02:06 AM

What an a$$ whoppin'.

We've seen other blowouts of Big Ten teams at the hands of the SEC but I think this one takes the cake. This was Alabama's biggest blowout of the yr, this side of Charleston Southern...and this was against the best team the Big Ten has to offer? Did Sparty really have its #1 QB tonight?

The aberration of last year is over. We're back to normal

We? You're an Alabama fan now? Msu is a very poor matchup for bama, that says very little about the entire big 10.

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What an a$$ whoppin'.

We've seen other blowouts of Big Ten teams at the hands of the SEC but I think this one takes the cake. This was Alabama's biggest blowout of the yr, this side of Charleston Southern...and this was against the best team the Big Ten has to offer? Did Sparty really have its #1 QB tonight?

The aberration of last year is over. We're back to normal

We? You're an Alabama fan now? Msu is a very poor matchup for bama, that says very little about the entire big 10.

Sea Ray

01-01-2016, 02:08 AM

We? You're an Alabama fan now? Msu is a very poor matchup for bama, that says very little about the entire big 10.

- - - Updated - - -

We? You're an Alabama fan now? Msu is a very poor matchup for bama, that says very little about the entire big 10.

I said "we've seen"...how does that make me an Alabama fan? In that case "we" refers to anyone who watches college football

You are correct that Alabama was a bad matchup for MSU. Too much talent

RedTeamGo!

01-01-2016, 02:14 AM

Sea Ray

01-01-2016, 02:17 AM

I was referring to the "we're back to normal" comment. Alabama is indeed back to where they were before OSU knocked them off last year and Oklahlma the year before, but I don't think that means the whole sec is.

Again, "we" refers to college football. Normal is the SEC knocking off the Big Ten in big games.

I'm anxious to see how Tennessee fares tomorrow. NW caught a break as UT's top RB, Jalen Hurd, looks to have pulled a hammy

jojo

01-01-2016, 08:47 AM

I'd like to say something sympathetic here but truthfully the only thing potentially worse than a Bama fan is buckeye fan. Actually they're equally bad but just in different ways-the two worst fanbases in the history of sport.

Clemson can certainly beat Alabama by the way. They definitely have enough offense to do it.

Assembly Hall

01-01-2016, 10:34 AM

I'd like to say something sympathetic here but truthfully the only thing potentially worse than a Bama fan is buckeye fan. Actually they're equally bad but just in different ways-the two worst fanbases in the history of sport.

Not according to this.......

http://collegespun.com/sec/kentucky-sec/kentucky-basketball-fans-voted-most-annoying-college-sports-fan-base-in-the-country

jojo

01-01-2016, 11:04 AM

Not according to this.......

http://collegespun.com/sec/kentucky-sec/kentucky-basketball-fans-voted-most-annoying-college-sports-fan-base-in-the-country

Its not like that's the first time the internet has been wrong.

Assembly Hall

01-01-2016, 11:32 AM

Its not like that's the first time the internet has been wrong.

LOL...true dat! I try not to let people's fandom bother me too much, especially where I live!!!!!!!!

Sea Ray

01-01-2016, 11:33 AM

Alabama beat Mich St at the Spartans strength:

It wasn't just that Nick Saban's powerful crew beat Michigan State at its own trench warfare, with a punishing defensive line that sacked Cook four times. The Crimson Tide did it with elements the Spartans must collect, speed on the perimeter, in the secondary and in the receiving corps.

Once Alabama beat them in the trenches, Bama had speed that MSU had no answer for

What amazes me here on the day after is that MSU still doesn't seem to get it. They still have a lack of respect for Alabama. In fact I think these comments border on delusional:

"We thought we could handle those guys," tackle Jack Conklin said. "They're a good team, not taking anything away from them. But it wasn't like those guys were super talented, way faster and way bigger than all of us, just pushing us around. I don't know if it was a focus thing, we just didn't finish."

"I don't think they were that good," defensive tackle Malik McDowell said. "Well, I'm not gonna say that, because obviously they beat us 38-zip. But I don't know what happened. I've never been through anything like this."

Yet this writer for the Detroit News gets it:

When reality hits, it hurts, and this was a sobering dose of it.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state-university/2016/01/01/wojo-spartans-smacked-with-reality-theyre-not-yet-elite/78169278/

Goes to show how tough it is to compare resumes in college football. MSU's resume in getting here was as good as anyone's yet they showed that they didn't even belong on the same field. This was one of MSU's best teams ever, led by a senior QB. Nobody was talking about how this Bama team stacks up historically.

Hillsdale87

01-01-2016, 11:39 AM

I think they showed up. They're just not very good.

Michigan State deserved to be in the playoff based on their resume, but they were the 2nd or 3rd best team in the Big 10, maybe even 4th best as that Iowa game was basically a 50/50 game. They should have lost to Michigan, and Michigan really controlled that game. They deserved to beat OSU because of how poorly OSU gameplanned and executed, but I don't think many people think MSU is better than OSU.

I still think OSU would have given Alabama a game. MSU had the right defensive gameplan to stop Alabama (bottle up Henry, force Coker to beat you), but didn't have the players to do it. OSU is much better in the secondary. And the OSU offense that dropped 42 on Michigan could have at least made things interesting.

Watching OSU lose to MSU was very frustrating. Then watching OSU completely dominate Michigan and then watching Alabama walk all over MSU just makes it even more annoying.

Sea Ray

01-01-2016, 11:51 AM

Ohio State fans must be frustrated while watching the game last night. I can't imagine that they wouldn't have given Bama a better game

RedTeamGo!

01-01-2016, 12:14 PM

Alabama beat Mich St at the Spartans strength:

Once Alabama beat them in the trenches, Bama had speed that MSU had no answer for

What amazes me here on the day after is that MSU still doesn't seem to get it. They still have a lack of respect for Alabama. In fact I think these comments border on delusional:

Yet this writer for the Detroit News gets it:

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state-university/2016/01/01/wojo-spartans-smacked-with-reality-theyre-not-yet-elite/78169278/

Goes to show how tough it is to compare resumes in college football. MSU's resume in getting here was as good as anyone's yet they showed that they didn't even belong on the same field. This was one of MSU's best teams ever, led by a senior QB. Nobody was talking about how this Bama team stacks up historically.

What do you want the MSU players to do? Go to the media and talk about how horrible they are?

These are young men that just got embarrassed on national television. They are likely very confused and upset. I wouldn't put much stock in anything they say right after the game.

Alabama is a very good football team, no doubt about it. Curious, did you say after bama beat LSU 21-0 and didn't allow LSU past the 50 yard line once in the 2012 national championship it said a lot about LSU's schedule?

RedTeamGo!

01-01-2016, 12:15 PM

Ohio State fans must be frustrated while watching the game last night. I can't imagine that they wouldn't have given Bama a better game

I think Iowa would have played them tougher too.

MSU matches up against bama very poorly. They play old school Jim Tressel field position ball with big and slow players. Part of that is having a bunch of 3 star recruits.

RedTeamGo!

01-01-2016, 12:20 PM

I think Clemson can beat bama. Totally different look at qb with Watson and speed on the perimeters.

Sea Ray

01-01-2016, 12:22 PM

What do you want the MSU players to do? Go to the media and talk about how horrible they are?

These are young men that just got embarrassed on national television. They are likely very confused and upset. I wouldn't put much stock in anything they say right after the game.

Alabama is a very good football team, no doubt about it. Curious, did you say after bama beat LSU 21-0 and didn't allow LSU past the 50 yard line once in the 2012 national championship it said a lot about LSU's schedule?

I expect MSU players to say "I tip my cap to them. They were the better team tonight..."

Sea Ray

01-01-2016, 12:24 PM

I think Clemson can beat bama. Totally different look at qb with Watson and speed on the perimeters.

I agree. Clemson has athletes that MSU doesn't. I still think Bama will win but I think it'll be a game

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I think Iowa would have played them tougher too.

MSU matches up against bama very poorly. They play old school Jim Tressel field position ball with big and slow players. Part of that is having a bunch of 3 star recruits.

And Iowa doesn't have big, slow players? Why would Iowa play them any better?

Assembly Hall

01-01-2016, 12:28 PM

All I can say SR is that you better hope and pray that our Vols beat NW today.

BuckeyeRed27

01-01-2016, 01:51 PM

CFP ratings down about 1/3 from last year.

jojo

01-01-2016, 02:13 PM

I think Clemson can beat bama. Totally different look at qb with Watson and speed on the perimeters.

You need a QB to beat Bama. MSU didn't have a chance. Clemson has a QB.

Tom Servo

01-01-2016, 02:33 PM

Bosa Deez Nuts

jojo

01-01-2016, 03:08 PM

CFP ratings down about 1/3 from last year.

All it did this year was create two really boring and unnecessary games.

BuckeyeRed27

01-01-2016, 03:33 PM

Bosa Deez Nuts

Rule has to change. If a play like that leads to an ejection just stop playing football.

Brutus

01-01-2016, 04:00 PM

Again, "we" refers to college football. Normal is the SEC knocking off the Big Ten in big games.

I'm anxious to see how Tennessee fares tomorrow. NW caught a break as UT's top RB, Jalen Hurd, looks to have pulled a hammy

If Tennessee is as good as you think, why are you pumping your chest about beating the 6th or 7th-best team in the Big Ten? If UT is anything like you think, it doesn't tell us anything about a conference when one of the best teams beats a middling team in another.

Brutus

01-01-2016, 04:28 PM

Michigan is also drilling the SEC East champ, Florida. It's 24-7 and about to become 31-7.

Sea Ray

01-01-2016, 04:29 PM

All I can say SR is that you better hope and pray that our Vols beat NW today.

Never a worry

Assembly Hall

01-01-2016, 04:33 PM

Michigan is also drilling the SEC East champ, Florida. It's 24-7 and about to become 31-7.

Michigan is pretty dang good. 2nd best team in the B1G IMHO behind tOSU.

Sea Ray

01-01-2016, 04:34 PM

If Tennessee is as good as you think, why are you pumping your chest about beating the 6th or 7th-best team in the Big Ten? If UT is anything like you think, it doesn't tell us anything about a conference when one of the best teams beats a middling team in another.

Is NW now a middling team? Where did all the talk about them beating Stanford go? They were the 13th best team in the country. Last yr we blew out Iowa. Same story. Who are the five or six Big Ten teams better than NW?

Assembly Hall

01-01-2016, 04:34 PM

Never a worry

There was on my end.

Sea Ray

01-01-2016, 04:37 PM

Michigan is also drilling the SEC East champ, Florida. It's 24-7 and about to become 31-7.

Things changed for Florida when their starting QB who was putting up Tim Tebow type numbers got suspended:

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/13871336/will-grier-florida-gators-quarterback-suspended-season

They were undefeated at the time

Sea Ray

01-01-2016, 04:38 PM

There was on my end.

Who on NW's side put a scare into you? The only way UT was going to lose was if they committed gobs of turnovers or suffered key injuries. On paper this was the biggest mismatch of the Bowl season

Assembly Hall

01-01-2016, 04:44 PM

Is NW now a middling team? Where did all the talk about them beating Stanford go? They were the 13th best team in the country. Last yr we blew out Iowa. Same story. Who are the five or six Big Ten teams better than NW?

Aside from the Stanford win, which I have no idea in hell how that happened, the Wildcats got their asses handed to them at Michigan and later at home by Iowa. MSU, tOSU, Iowa, Penn St., and Michigan are all better than the 'Cats. I aint too sure that Wisconsin, IU, and Nebraska arent either.

Brutus

01-01-2016, 04:44 PM

Is NW now a middling team? Where did all the talk about them beating Stanford go? They were the 13th best team in the country. Last yr we blew out Iowa. Same story. Who are the five or six Big Ten teams better than NW?

Is this a serious question? Four of them are blatantly obvious. Everyone agrees that Ohio State, Michigan State, Michigan and Iowa are all clearly better than Northwestern. Every major power rating I've seen, including Sagarin you often use, has Wisconsin better than Northwestern (that's five teams better). And, to be perfectly honest, some power ratings even have Penn State and/or Nebraska better.

So yeah, it's pretty easy to say that Northwestern is probably (at best) only the fifth or sixth best team in the Big Ten. The point about them beating Stanford is that they're still a decent team, but they're not anywhere near among the best teams in the league. So using UT beating them as an argument for the SEC's dominance is pretty shaky.

The fact Florida played the second half of the season without their starting QB and became that bad of a team and still won the SEC East hurts your argument more than it helps.

Assembly Hall

01-01-2016, 04:46 PM

Who on NW's side put a scare into you? The only way UT was going to lose was if they committed gobs of turnovers or suffered key injuries. On paper this was the biggest mismatch of the Bowl season

I still cant get that Stanford win out of my head. I missed that game, but damn the Cardinal are a dang fine team and NW beat them.

Brutus

01-01-2016, 04:54 PM

Michigan is now up 38-7

KronoRed

01-01-2016, 05:42 PM

Michigan is now up 38-7

The big 10 and SEC are both 1 team and a lot of chaff leagues, the big 10 just got unlucky in that their one good team didn't make the playoffs.

jimbo

01-01-2016, 05:47 PM

Michigan is now up 38-7

This Florida team was the SEC East champs? I bet Michigan wishes they could fill up their schedule with these slow SEC teams.

traderumor

01-01-2016, 05:49 PM

The big 10 and SEC are both 1 team and a lot of chaff leagues, the big 10 just got unlucky in that their one good team didn't make the playoffs.

Michigan not playing life chaff.

KronoRed

01-01-2016, 05:51 PM

Michigan not playing life chaff.

Hard to tell when they are playing other chaff, just like UT and NW, Chaff vs Chaff ;)

Assembly Hall

01-01-2016, 05:58 PM

The big 10 and SEC are both 1 team and a lot of chaff leagues, the big 10 just got unlucky in that their one good team didn't make the playoffs.

LOL, the B1G has plenty of good teams......their best team didnt get in there, nor did their second best team.

jimbo

01-01-2016, 06:18 PM

Hard to tell when they are playing other chaff, just like UT and NW, Chaff vs Chaff ;)

Alabama only beat that chaff by 14 points.

RedTeamGo!

01-01-2016, 06:24 PM

I thought OSU played kind of poorly and they still won by 16.

KronoRed

01-01-2016, 06:29 PM

Alabama only beat that chaff by 14 points.

Come on, comparing scores is silly, Florida beat ole miss by 28 points and that team beat the elephants who beat MSU who beat OSU who beat Michigan.

Where does it end?

jimbo

01-01-2016, 06:32 PM

Come on, comparing scores is silly, Florida beat ole miss by 28 points and that team beat the elephants who beat MSU who beat OSU who beat Michigan.

Where does it end?

Oh, I agree. I only pointed it out because SEC fans seem obsessed with margin of victory.

KronoRed

01-01-2016, 06:36 PM

Oh, I agree. I only pointed it out because SEC fans seem obsessed with margin of victory.

I'm a Florida fan, not an SEC fan, people who chant "SEC SEC" are usually fans of bad teams in the SEC and they want to ride coat tails.

villain612

01-01-2016, 06:47 PM

Iowa getting spanked. Not really a surprise.

Michigan State getting walloped caught me off guard though.

traderumor

01-01-2016, 07:22 PM

Hard to tell when they are playing other chaff, just like UT and NW, Chaff vs Chaff ;)Well, I knew NW wasn't much, and I knew Florida was weak, so neither blowout result is surprising, since Michigan and UT are both decent, which is what people have been saying. How NW beat Stanford, I have no idea.

As for Iowa, it turns out the cornstalks are their team, not their fans.

Sea Ray

01-01-2016, 07:51 PM

Is this a serious question? Four of them are blatantly obvious. Everyone agrees that Ohio State, Michigan State, Michigan and Iowa are all clearly better than Northwestern. Every major power rating I've seen, including Sagarin you often use, has Wisconsin better than Northwestern (that's five teams better). And, to be perfectly honest, some power ratings even have Penn State and/or Nebraska better.

So yeah, it's pretty easy to say that Northwestern is probably (at best) only the fifth or sixth best team in the Big Ten. The point about them beating Stanford is that they're still a decent team, but they're not anywhere near among the best teams in the league. So using UT beating them as an argument for the SEC's dominance is pretty shaky.

The fact Florida played the second half of the season without their starting QB and became that bad of a team and still won the SEC East hurts your argument more than it helps.

I agree that there are four teams easily better, but NW beat Wisconsin, Penn State and Nebraska on the field.

Sea Ray

01-01-2016, 07:54 PM

This Rose Bowl is making the Citrus Bowl look like a competitive game. We may be seeing history here. We may never see two teams from a Power 5 championship game get so blown out in the following Bowl game

kaldaniels

01-01-2016, 07:55 PM

I agree that there are four teams easily better, but NW beat Wisconsin, Penn State and Nebraska on the field.

Which would put them 5th/6th best, as Brutus stated, right? The teams they beat you listed are around the 5th-8th best teams...so this all makes sense.

Sea Ray

01-01-2016, 07:56 PM

This Florida team was the SEC East champs? I bet Michigan wishes they could fill up their schedule with these slow SEC teams.

I wish Tennessee had been able to face THAT Florida team.

They are an embarrassment to the SEC for sure

Sea Ray

01-01-2016, 07:58 PM

I thought OSU played kind of poorly and they still won by 16.

Were this a wide open playoff field, Ohio State is a team I would not want to face. Too bad the powers that be didn't treat us to an OSU-Stanford Rose Bowl. That would have been fun to see

Sea Ray

01-01-2016, 08:00 PM

I think Iowa would have played them tougher too.

MSU matches up against bama very poorly. They play old school Jim Tressel field position ball with big and slow players. Part of that is having a bunch of 3 star recruits.

I doubt it. Iowa doesn't look too tough

Sea Ray

01-01-2016, 08:04 PM

Which would put them 5th/6th best, as Brutus stated, right? The teams they beat you listed are around the 5th-8th best teams...so this all makes sense.

Not right. Brutus said the 6th/7th best. In order to say that, we'd have to say that teams that NW beat on the field are actually better

If Tennessee is as good as you think, why are you pumping your chest about beating the 6th or 7th-best team in the Big Ten? If UT is anything like you think, it doesn't tell us anything about a conference when one of the best teams beats a middling team in another.

Is this a serious question? Four of them are blatantly obvious. Everyone agrees that Ohio State, Michigan State, Michigan and Iowa are all clearly better than Northwestern. Every major power rating I've seen, including Sagarin you often use, has Wisconsin better than Northwestern (that's five teams better). And, to be perfectly honest, some power ratings even have Penn State and/or Nebraska better.

So yeah, it's pretty easy to say that Northwestern is probably (at best) only the fifth or sixth best team in the Big Ten. The point about them beating Stanford is that they're still a decent team, but they're not anywhere near among the best teams in the league. So using UT beating them as an argument for the SEC's dominance is pretty shaky.

jojo

01-01-2016, 09:51 PM

Is this a serious question? Four of them are blatantly obvious. Everyone agrees that Ohio State, Michigan State, Michigan and Iowa are all clearly better than Northwestern. Every major power rating I've seen, including Sagarin you often use, has Wisconsin better than Northwestern (that's five teams better). And, to be perfectly honest, some power ratings even have Penn State and/or Nebraska better.

So yeah, it's pretty easy to say that Northwestern is probably (at best) only the fifth or sixth best team in the Big Ten. The point about them beating Stanford is that they're still a decent team, but they're not anywhere near among the best teams in the league. So using UT beating them as an argument for the SEC's dominance is pretty shaky.

The fact Florida played the second half of the season without their starting QB and became that bad of a team and still won the SEC East hurts your argument more than it helps.

The other thing that is blatantly obvious is that the SEC is a stronger conference than the big ten, yet again.

jojo

01-01-2016, 09:54 PM

Oh, I agree. I only pointed it out because SEC fans seem obsessed with margin of victory.

Im an SEC fan and I can say emphatically that you don't know what your talking about when you talk about "SEC" fan. You mostly just argue against an imaginary figment of your jealously and hate.

jojo

01-01-2016, 09:59 PM

Were this a wide open playoff field, Ohio State is a team I would not want to face. Too bad the powers that be didn't treat us to an OSU-Stanford Rose Bowl. That would have been fun to see

Stanford would've rolled them. The cardinals should've been the playoff team instead of Sparty.

jojo

01-01-2016, 10:00 PM

I'm a Florida fan, not an SEC fan, people who chant "SEC SEC" are usually fans of bad teams in the SEC and they want to ride coat tails.

Basically Jimbo hates Vandy fans but wishes he was a Bammer.

Brutus

01-01-2016, 10:07 PM

I agree that there are four teams easily better, but NW beat Wisconsin, Penn State and Nebraska on the field.

Not right. Brutus said the 6th/7th best. In order to say that, we'd have to say that teams that NW beat on the field are actually better

First, are you really gonna split hairs about whether they're really 5th or 6th/7th? The point I was making is the same.

That said, they beat Nebraska and Penn State by two points each and Wisconsin by six points. That's a grand total of three wins by a total of a touchdown and field goal difference. No one would suggest that proves someone is better. Those results are coin flip games.

The power ratings take into account ALL the games, not just a small sample of one-possession head-to-head contests. The power ratings mostly agree that Wisconsin is better than Northwestern given the results of all the games, and Penn State and Nebraska are arguably better, or at least could be.

Brutus

01-01-2016, 10:08 PM

The other thing that is blatantly obvious is that the SEC is a stronger conference than the big ten, yet again.

Funny, when SEC's top five teams got rolled last year, you were telling us all that it wasn't obvious just because of bowl games. Funny how quickly you have abandoned that line of thinking when the shoe is on the other foot.

jojo

01-01-2016, 10:13 PM

Funny, when SEC's top five teams got rolled last year, you were telling us all that it wasn't obvious just because of bowl games. Funny how quickly you have abandoned that line of thinking when the shoe is on the other foot.

Actually, what's funny is that you're avoiding admitting the obvious. The SEC is a stronger conference than the big 10. And guess what, my argument did not evoke any bowl result from this year nor did it need to. Quit making stuff up and concede the point by just admitting the obvious.

jojo

01-01-2016, 10:15 PM

Hate is a strong word but I hate Brock H as a color commentator. Don't care what game he's calling, he's like listening to Rosanne Barr sing the national anthem.

villain612

01-01-2016, 10:44 PM

Stanford would've rolled them.

lol

jojo

01-01-2016, 11:26 PM

lol

Agreed that the statement embodied lots of learnedness.

RedTeamGo!

01-01-2016, 11:36 PM

Stanford would've rolled them. The cardinals should've been the playoff team instead of Sparty.

I think it's just "Cardinal" and no. OSU just beat up a team that lost to Stanford at Stanford by a last second field goal.

Also because common sense.

BuckeyeRed27

01-01-2016, 11:37 PM

Well as good as the bowl games and playoffs were last year, they are just as awful this year.

Brutus

01-01-2016, 11:38 PM

Actually, what's funny is that you're avoiding admitting the obvious. The SEC is a stronger conference than the big 10. And guess what, my argument did not evoke any bowl result from this year nor did it need to. Quit making stuff up and concede the point by just admitting the obvious.

There's nothing obvious about it. The SEC makes a living by beating up on Sun Belt, C-USA and FCS opponents. There's simply not enough data to say whether they're a better conference. They might be. They also might not be. From top to bottom I believe they're deeper than the Big Ten but they certainly don't appear to be any better at the top. Ohio State and Alabama are neck and neck the best teams in the country. Two through five, the Big Ten rates better than the SEC.

jojo

01-01-2016, 11:43 PM

Well as good as the bowl games and playoffs were last year, they are just as awful this year.

This year its been toilet bowl season.

jojo

01-01-2016, 11:46 PM

There's nothing obvious about it. The SEC makes a living by beating up on Sun Belt, C-USA and FCS opponents. There's simply not enough data to say whether they're a better conference. They might be. They also might not be. From top to bottom I believe they're deeper than the Big Ten but they certainly don't appear to be any better at the top. Ohio State and Alabama are neck and neck the best teams in the country. Two through five, the Big Ten rates better than the SEC.

Of course nothing is obvious about it to you. Cough. You think a team that didn't get the big 10's rose bowl invite should be considered the best in the land. Cough.

BuckeyeRed27

01-01-2016, 11:50 PM

This year its been toilet bowl season.

All of the big games have been pretty bad. I guess the OSU game was probably the best, but outside of liking the outcome it wasn't really a good or competitive game. Even the undercard games have been pretty bad. Maybe the Holiday and Pinstripe have been ok? Just seems like a lot more blow outs than normal.

jojo

01-01-2016, 11:55 PM

All of the big games have been pretty bad. I guess the OSU game was probably the best, but outside of liking the outcome it wasn't really a good or competitive game. Even the undercard games have been pretty bad. Maybe the Holiday and Pinstripe have been ok? Just seems like a lot more blow outs than normal.

The best game I've seen thus far has been Duke-Indiana. There haven't been many close ones and truthfully, most of the close ones have been ugly where it's been more bad football from both sides than entertaining narrative.

BuckeyeRed27

01-02-2016, 12:04 AM

Of course nothing is obvious about it to you. Cough. You think a team that didn't get the big 10's rose bowl invite should be considered the best in the land. Cough.

The team that will be favored to win it all was a 4th and 25 pick up by Arkansas away from not getting to be in the playoffs. The margins on this stuff are pretty small.

jojo

01-02-2016, 12:12 AM

The team that will be favored to win it all was a 4th and 25 pick up by Arkansas away from not getting to be in the playoffs. The margins on this stuff are pretty small.

But ya know what? Members of a fanbase that likes to moan about SEC fan and yell scoreboard really don't get to claim a national championship on margin when the country didn't even consider that team better than third best in their conference, a conference no one but "hometowners" are even trying to argue is the best in the country. Because while margins allows one to sleep better at night, on the ground, it might as well have been Moses looking across the river Jordan cuz, it really wasn't that close when one can't even smell the roses.

BuckeyeRed27

01-02-2016, 12:21 AM

But ya know what? When you're a member of a fanbase that likes to moan about SEC fan and yell scoreboard, ya really don't get to claim a national championship on margin when the country didn't even consider you better than third best in your conference, a conference no one but "hometowners" are even trying to argue is the best in the country.

Not the point at all.

The SEC, Big 10 and Pac 12 could all make cases about being the "best" conference. None of the arguments are wrong. It really doesn't matter.

kaldaniels

01-02-2016, 01:13 AM

But ya know what? Members of a fanbase that likes to moan about SEC fan and yell scoreboard really don't get to claim a national championship on margin when the country didn't even consider that team better than third best in their conference, a conference no one but "hometowners" are even trying to argue is the best in the country. Because while margins allows one to sleep better at night, on the ground, it might as well have been Moses looking across the river Jordan cuz, it really wasn't that close when one can't even smell the roses.

Who is claiming a National Championship? If any OSU fan is they are wrong.

Sea Ray

01-02-2016, 01:13 AM

The story of the New Years Bowls isn't about one team or conference. It's that there wasn't a close game in any one of them. I can't remember that ever being the case

kaldaniels

01-02-2016, 01:16 AM

The story of the New Years Bowls isn't about one team or conference. It's that there wasn't a close game in any one of them. I can't remember that ever being the case

I've always said (in terms of non-BCS bowls) bowl results simply are a function of motivation. Some teams show up. Some don't. I don't judge teams too much based on the result of a bowl. (Some may argue otherwise) This is now being passed on to non-playoff bowl games. While a good team should show up for a bowl..fact is sometimes they just don't.

I'm with jojo. Give us a 16 team playoff. Make the games count.

Sea Ray

01-02-2016, 01:18 AM

First, are you really gonna split hairs about whether they're really 5th or 6th/7th? The point I was making is the same.

That said, they beat Nebraska and Penn State by two points each and Wisconsin by six points. That's a grand total of three wins by a total of a touchdown and field goal difference. No one would suggest that proves someone is better. Those results are coin flip games.

The power ratings take into account ALL the games, not just a small sample of one-possession head-to-head contests. The power ratings mostly agree that Wisconsin is better than Northwestern given the results of all the games, and Penn State and Nebraska are arguably better, or at least could be.

Tell me about it. All four losses by my Vols were by a total of 17 pts including to two playoff teams.

Maybe we can agree on this: Northwestern was overrated and Tenn was underrated going into today's games