Cincinnati Bengals-Pittsburgh Steelers 2016 Playoff Thread [Archive] - Page 4 - RedsZone.com - Cincinnati Reds Fans' Home for Baseball Discussion

WVRed

01-10-2016, 03:26 PM

The game turned on the Bernard no-call. Before then, it was nasty and vicious but under control. After that, all hell broke loose and both teams pulled out brass knuckles and clubs. I blame the refs for that. You cannot not make a call like that in a game as contentious as this. Absolutely.

And most importantly, it gave the Bengals life.

Id love to watch the replay of Nantz and Simms saying they were trying to calm Burfict down right before he took out Roethlisberger. The Shazier hit brought the fans and players into an "Us against the world" and nearly pulled it off.

I've never seen PBS/Riverfront like that. Everybody is condemning it but would any of the Bengals be treated any differently at Heinz Field? Only reason people are upset is the Bengals didn't kiss Bens black and gold you know what.

Brutus

01-10-2016, 03:52 PM

I thought the announcers explained the Bernard hit clearly, and brought in Carey as a second opinion. He turned upfield and was no longer defenseless. Does that change the helmet to helmet aspect? I don't know.

They explained the "defenseless receiver" portion of the targeting rules clearly. Unfortunately, they acted completely and utterly ignorant of what used to be termed "spearing." As mentioned, you can never lead with the crown of your helmet on any hit made against any player. Hitting a ball carrier in the face mask with the crown of your helmet is absolutely a penalty. How those bozos didn't think about this aspect of the rule was bizarre.

Here is the rule on hitting with your helmet:

10234

wolfboy

01-10-2016, 04:06 PM

They explained the "defenseless receiver" portion of the targeting rules clearly. Unfortunately, they acted completely and utterly ignorant of what used to be termed "spearing." As mentioned, you can never lead with the crown of your helmet on any hit made against any player. Hitting a ball carrier in the face mask with the crown of your helmet is absolutely a penalty. How those bozos didn't think about this aspect of the rule was bizarre.

Here is the rule on hitting with your helmet:

10234

Just the Steelers playing hard-nosed Steelers football, right?

SirFelixCat

01-10-2016, 04:08 PM

dougdirt

01-10-2016, 04:18 PM

Issue of Marvin Lewis' future really isn't much of an issue. Bengals have no plans to make any HC change at this time, per sources.

From Adam Schefter.

traderumor

01-10-2016, 04:18 PM

Just the Steelers playing hard-nosed Steelers football, right?
Unfortunate as Carey described it. Another aspect of all the "safety" rules on display last night is how arbitrary and susceptible to favoritism they can be. The Bengals are thugs, so their hard hits are illegal. The Steelers are " hard nosed" and make hard hits, but within the rules. With a game of this magnitude, the bias was exposed. Not that anyone who matters will admit it. And fining illegal plays that had an effect on the outcome of the game after the fact while flags were thrown on the loser that affected the outcome against them is not a fair playing field. It is a stacked deck.

WMR

01-10-2016, 04:24 PM

You can't lead with the crown of the helmet anywhere. Even ball carriers can't do it. That rule was put in place in 2013. Shazier will undoubtedly be fined and the NFL will issue a hollow mea culpa.

And nobody is more wrong more often than Mike Carey.

Has Mike Carey been through the concussion protocol?

Pretty sure he has an undiagnosed traumatic brain injury.

Razor Shines

01-10-2016, 04:29 PM

Has Mike Carey been through the concussion protocol?

Pretty sure he has an undiagnosed traumatic brain injury.

CBS thought they had figured out how to use Mike Carey. Bring him in after the replay decision has been made, have him agree with the call on the field. CBS just didn't realize there was a team of Mike Careys officiating last night.

wolfboy

01-10-2016, 04:42 PM

As someone without a dog in the fight, a lot of homerism re: Burfict's hit. Clearly dirty, shoulder or not. Just as Shazir's was earlier and not called. The first one that was called (forget who laid the hit) was clean and a bad call, IMO.

Where's the homerism? I, among others, accept and understand that Burfict's hit deserved a flag. In fact, I don't know why everyone keeps focusing on the Burfict hit, other than the fact that he's everyone's favorite bad guy. People are pissed because the exact same type of hit Burfict laid on Brown doesn't get called 9/10 if it's a Steeler doing it to a Bengal. That's practically undeniable fact. We saw it in the last game when Mitchell laid out Eifert; we saw it in this game when Shazier laid out Bernard. Just like I said, when they do it, it's just hard-nosed Steelers football. When we do it, it's the thugs in Cincinnati. When the Steelers coach pulls a player's hair or another coach invades the Bengals huddle with a profanity riddled tirade, it's just passionate Steelers football. When the Bengals get tagged with 15 for responding, it's the inmates running the asylum. I can live with the loss but I'm damn tired of my team being demonized, especially in the shadow of the dirtiest team in all of football that gets patted on the back for its b.s. I guess it's unreasonable to ask that my team have to abide by the same rules as the other team.

wolfboy

01-10-2016, 04:43 PM

Has Mike Carey been through the concussion protocol?

Pretty sure he has an undiagnosed traumatic brain injury.

:lol: I think Carey's injury has been diagnosed by anyone who has ever watched an NFL broadcast on CBS.

Razor Shines

01-10-2016, 04:45 PM

Wasn't the Steelers coach on the sideline flagged 15?

paintmered

01-10-2016, 04:46 PM

Wasn't the Steelers coach on the sideline flagged 15?

He was. It occurred early in the game before the excrement really hit the fan.

traderumor

01-10-2016, 04:52 PM

He was. It occurred early in the game before the excrement really hit the fan.And when it was not going to directly impact the outcome of the game. It was a bone thrown to appease the accusers of favoritism toward the Steelers.

WVRed

01-10-2016, 04:52 PM

Issue of Marvin Lewis' future really isn't much of an issue. Bengals have no plans to make any HC change at this time, per sources.

From Adam Schefter.

Basically a giant middle finger to the rest of the league.

The media is trying to pin this on Marvin and paint Cincinnati as a whole as classless. The refs and Steelers get a free pass.

Tomorrow will be very telling. I'm sure the media scrutiny will intensify and Goodell or owners will condemn the Bengals play.

Chip R

01-10-2016, 05:14 PM

"We don't want thug football players. I'll take my players high class, cold, deadly, smart, hard hitting, and hard running. Always remember, when you meet an obnoxious football player, the meanest thing you can do to him is to beat him. They can play dirty, call you names, violate the rules. Just beat 'em. They understand that more than anything." - Paul Brown

Sea Ray

01-10-2016, 05:43 PM

No, Marvin runs this franchise. Period. Tobin has a lot of valuable input, but Marvin is the one making the final free agent and draft decisions. This has been referenced out there in many places. You're trying to justify your wanting his fired by hoping he doesn't have as much influence, but it would, again, be a mistake. Marvin is the guy that built this franchise to where it is no ifs, ands or buts about it.

Nope. Marvin's been around for quite some time, but the team didn't get to where they are now until after Tobin came on board. I'll take my chances with Hue and Tobin

RedsBaron

01-10-2016, 05:46 PM

The Steelers have often been a dirty team over the last 40+ years, and I loathe the team, but they have also generally been a smart team. The Bengals last night were both dirty at times and also stupid.

Brutus

01-10-2016, 05:54 PM

Nope. Marvin's been around for quite some time, but the team didn't get to where they are now until after Tobin came on board. I'll take my chances with Hue and Tobin

The team didn't get to where they are now until after Tobin came on board? Dude, Lewis got Tobin hired one year after he started. Lewis was hired in 2003, Tobin came on the following season. Lewis eventually got Brown to let him be in charge of personnel. He uses Tobin's input, especially on college guys. But don't kid yourself, this is Lewis' show now. He's the guy making the calls in the draft room. This has been said flat out in many places.

WrongVerb

01-10-2016, 05:58 PM

Hardcore Bengals fans knew this was coming the moment that shovel pass by Dalton was intercepted. We just had to watch it play out week by week. Last night's game was just the final climax, an orgy of violence with the protagonist Bengals coming out looking like the victim, the antagonist Steelers as the anti-hero, and the referees unmasked as the true villains, with a hint of conspiratorial excess by the league higher-ups. This couldn't have played out better for the adverti$ers if they'd scripted it. Hmmmm...

SirFelixCat

01-10-2016, 06:03 PM

Where's the homerism? I, among others, accept and understand that Burfict's hit deserved a flag. In fact, I don't know why everyone keeps focusing on the Burfict hit, other than the fact that he's everyone's favorite bad guy. People are pissed because the exact same type of hit Burfict laid on Brown doesn't get called 9/10 if it's a Steeler doing it to a Bengal. That's practically undeniable fact. We saw it in the last game when Mitchell laid out Eifert; we saw it in this game when Shazier laid out Bernard. Just like I said, when they do it, it's just hard-nosed Steelers football. When we do it, it's the thugs in Cincinnati. When the Steelers coach pulls a player's hair or another coach invades the Bengals huddle with a profanity riddled tirade, it's just passionate Steelers football. When the Bengals get tagged with 15 for responding, it's the inmates running the asylum. I can live with the loss but I'm damn tired of my team being demonized, especially in the shadow of the dirtiest team in all of football that gets patted on the back for its b.s. I guess it's unreasonable to ask that my team have to abide by the same rules as the other team.

I think this is exactly the point I was making. I'm a Cowboys fan. I couldn't give two squirts about either team. But yeah, this is exactly the type of homerism I was talking about. Sorry that Joey Porter should have been flagged. Sorry that Bryant's TD was incorrectly ruled (only had a foot down when he controlled the ball). Sorry that two players, regardless of their history, lost their head at the end of the game and it cost your team. But let's call a spade a spade...your rant was the epitome of homerism.

traderumor

01-10-2016, 06:18 PM

Redsfaithful

01-10-2016, 06:32 PM

Oh my

/fans self

there are people being homers in this thread

i must lie down

Redsfaithful

01-10-2016, 06:36 PM

I'm glad Marvin Lewis is staying.

Nobody is calling for Tomlin to be fired, even though his players were completely out of control, including two coaches, including apparently giving a game ball to Porter.

A lot of Cincinnati sports fans crave national approval, so they're quick to call Burfict dirty, call for Marvin to be fired, etc. I'm not playing into that. That was a massive screw job and the Bengals shouldn't apologize when they were wronged.

The only thing a Bengal did wrong last night was Jeremy Hill fumbling, and Adam Jones should have kept his composure, even though Porter shouldn't have been on the field.

Looking forward to Landry Jones playing Peyton Manning with Antonio Brown sitting on the sideline.

KoryMac5

01-10-2016, 06:43 PM

If you think the Bengal curse stops when you leave Cincinnati you would be wrong. Blair Walsh and AP bungled Zimmer's first playoff win. Poor guy.

RiverRat13

01-10-2016, 06:51 PM

Nobody is calling for Tomlin to be fired, even though his players were completely out of control, including two coaches, including apparently giving a game ball to Porter.
.

Yep. Let's not forget that five, count 'em five Steelers were fined for illegal hits (or in the case of DeCastro, basically eye gouging) after the Week 14 game. Burfict and Green were the only Bengals fined, and Green was fined for punting the ball into the crowd. Burfict will get suspended and that will get the headlines, but I expect the Steelers to once again have a higher volume of players fined, including a freakin' coach. So either Tomlin has as little control over his team as Marvin, or the whole thing is a calculated part of the Steelers culture.

TheBigLebowski

01-10-2016, 06:56 PM

I think this is exactly the point I was making. I'm a Cowboys fan. I couldn't give two squirts about either team. But yeah, this is exactly the type of homerism I was talking about. Sorry that Joey Porter should have been flagged. Sorry that Bryant's TD was incorrectly ruled (only had a foort down when he controlled the ball). Sorry that two players, regardless of their history, lost their head at the end of the game and it cost your team. But let's call a spade a spade...your rant was the epitome of homerism.

You're a Reds fan and a Cowboys fan. Interesting enough in and of itself.

You're on a Reds board with a corollary board dedicated to the other professional team in the city. Of which you are not a fan.

I don't give a crap about your motivations. But spare us all the "I'm an indifferent, impartial observer and therefore correct!" crap. That act is so tiresome. Worry about your Cowboys. Better yet, worry about that plane in which our interests intersect. The Reds. They're not going to burden anyone with a playoff appearance this year.

Just like the Cowboys. And Greg Hardy.

RedTeamGo!

01-10-2016, 06:57 PM

Yachtzee

01-10-2016, 06:58 PM

Yep. Let's not forget that five, count 'em five Steelers were fined for illegal hits (or in the case of DeCastro, basically eye gouging) after the Week 14 game. Burfict and Green were the only Bengals fined, and Green was fined for punting the ball into the crowd. Burfict will get suspended and that will get the headlines, but I expect the Steelers to once again have a higher volume of players fined, including a freakin' coach. So either Tomlin has as little control over his team as Marvin, or the whole thing is a calculated part of the Steelers culture.

I'd be interested to find out if the Rooney family quietly pays the fines for Steelers players behind the scenes. It always seems like these fines on Steelers get announced, but then we never hear of them again and no on says anything about Steelers risking suspension because they've been fined before.

Redsfaithful

01-10-2016, 07:02 PM

How was the Burfict headhunt of Brown ok in your book?

Plays like that happen every single week. The game is fast, he hit him with his shoulder.

I know you think Burfict is the devil though, you've had a problem with him for years. Everyone in this thread admits he plays dirty at times, I am not sure what else you are wanting to hear.

So much about this game that is already getting forgotten about.

DeCastro pummels Burfict, throws him down, weeks after eye gouging Gilberry, no flag on either play though. Honestly, if you want an example of the refs being malicious towards the Bengals that might have been the sequence just as much as the Gio no call.

But Vontaze is evil, the Steelers just play hard nosed blah blah blah

RedTeamGo!

01-10-2016, 07:22 PM

Plays like that happen every single week. The game is fast, he hit him with his shoulder.

I know you think Burfict is the devil though, you've had a problem with him for years. Everyone in this thread admits he plays dirty at times, I am not sure what else you are wanting to hear.

So much about this game that is already getting forgotten about.

DeCastro pummels Burfict, throws him down, weeks after eye gouging Gilberry, no flag on either play though. Honestly, if you want an example of the refs being malicious towards the Bengals that might have been the sequence just as much as the Gio no call.

But Vontaze is evil, the Steelers just play hard nosed blah blah blah

I think the steelers are dirty and lame too, but I honestly can't comprehend someone watching that Burfict play and believing it wasn't deliberate. Burfict being a dirty scumbag aside, he cost his team dearly by losing his head and clearly going after Brown's head. I guess if burfict can't beat Brown, might as well try to end his career, though.

Yachtzee

01-10-2016, 07:26 PM

I think the steelers are dirty and lame too, but I honestly can't comprehend someone watching that Burfict play and believing it wasn't deliberate. Burfict being a dirty scumbag aside, he cost his team dearly by losing his head and clearly going after Brown's head. I guess if burfict can't beat Brown, might as well try to end his career.

So what about Shazier? Do you have the same amount of disgust for him? His hit could very well have ended Bernard's career. The only difference is that Shazier didn't get so much as flagged, and because he had a Steelers jersey, the announcers made every effort to justify his hit.

RedTeamGo!

01-10-2016, 07:30 PM

So what about Shazier? Do you have the same amount of disgust for him? His hit could very well have ended Bernard's career. The only difference is that Shazier didn't get so much as flagged, and because he had a Steelers jersey, the announcers made every effort to justify his hit.

I honestly haven't seen the Shazier play, my infant son was screaming his head off at that moment and I walked away from the tv. Disgust aside, did he do it up by 1 with less than a minute to go? Burfict should have understood the situation and not attempted to injure an opposing player at that moment.

Who cares what the announcers say? Why is that such an issue?

Brutus

01-10-2016, 07:33 PM

How was the Burfict headhunt of Brown ok in your book?

James Harrison commented saying he didn't think it was a dirty play and didn't think Burfict could have avoided the contact.

If you want to argue Burfict is a dirty player, something I doubt anyone would argue against, that play shouldn't be the one you're using to make your case. That really wasn't that bad a hit. He lead with his shoulder and aimed at Brown's shoulder, which would both be legal and exactly how you're supposed to do it. Unfortunately, in real time, there's not enough time to adjust if you aim poorly or if the receiver makes the slightest move in a different direction. That appears to be what happened.

That hit was a penalty by rule, but wasn't even in the top 30 dirtiest hits of the year in the NFL. Mike Mitchell has probably had at least 4-5 dirtier hits this year alone.

RedTeamGo!

01-10-2016, 07:35 PM

James Harrison commented saying he didn't think it was a dirty play and didn't think Burfict could have avoided the contact.

If you want to argue Burfict is a dirty player, something I doubt anyone would argue against, that play shouldn't be the one you're using to make your case. That really wasn't that bad a hit. He lead with his shoulder and aimed at Brown's shoulder, which would both be legal and exactly how you're supposed to do it. Unfortunately, in real time, there's not enough time to adjust if you aim poorly or if the receiver makes the slightest move in a different direction. That appears to be what happened.

That hit was a penalty by rule, but wasn't even in the top 30 dirtiest hits of the year in the NFL. Mike Mitchell has probably had at least 4-5 dirtier hits this year alone.

James Harrison has never seen a hit that was dirty in his life. Lol.

WVRed

01-10-2016, 08:10 PM

James Harrison has never seen a hit that was dirty in his life. Lol.

I give James Harrison credit, at least he's honest. :)

Yachtzee

01-10-2016, 08:23 PM

I honestly haven't seen the Shazier play, my infant son was screaming his head off at that moment and I walked away from the tv. Disgust aside, did he do it up by 1 with less than a minute to go? Burfict should have understood the situation and not attempted to injure an opposing player at that moment.

Who cares what the announcers say? Why is that such an issue?

Here's the hit.

http://www.sbnation.com/2016/1/9/10743696/bengals-steelers-playoffs-fight-helmet-hit-giovani-bernard-ryan-shazier

That hit was just about the point where the refs lost control of the game. Failing to penalize Shazier for that hit was pretty much the signal to Bengals players that they weren't going to get any help from the refs. I've seen commentary which has suggested that that was both the spark that gave the Bengals life, yet also lit the fuse to the explosion at the end of the game. Shazier clearly drops his helmet down to spear Bernard. The hit left Bernard unconscious for a period of time and caused him to leave the game.

Rather than say what it was, a penalty. Nance, Simms, and Mike Carey proceeded to spend the next five minutes absolving the refs and Shazier of any wrongdoing, and I have yet to hear anyone in the national media call out Shazier for spearing. Leading with the helmet is always a dangerous play and always a penalty, "defenseless receiver" or not. Not only could it have ended Bernard's career, it could have also ended Shazier's. Players have been left paralyzed on those kinds of hits.

RedsBaron

01-10-2016, 08:34 PM

Here's the hit.

http://www.sbnation.com/2016/1/9/10743696/bengals-steelers-playoffs-fight-helmet-hit-giovani-bernard-ryan-shazier

That hit was just about the point where the refs lost control of the game. Failing to penalize Shazier for that hit was pretty much the signal to Bengals players that they weren't going to get any help from the refs. I've seen commentary which has suggested that that was both the spark that gave the Bengals life, yet also lit the fuse to the explosion at the end of the game. Shazier clearly drops his helmet down to spear Bernard. The hit left Bernard unconscious for a period of time and caused him to leave the game.

Rather than say what it was, a penalty. Nance, Simms, and Mike Carey proceeded to spend the next five minutes absolving the refs and Shazier of any wrongdoing, and I have yet to hear anyone in the national media call out Shazier for spearing. Leading with the helmet is always a dangerous play and always a penalty, "defenseless receiver" or not. Not only could it have ended Bernard's career, it could have also ended Shazier's. Players have been left paralyzed on those kinds of hits.
1. That was an illegal and dirty play. Shazier lead with his helmet. His head was down.
2. The official who failed to call a penalty on that play was incompetent.

wolfboy

01-10-2016, 08:44 PM

I think this is exactly the point I was making. I'm a Cowboys fan. I couldn't give two squirts about either team. But yeah, this is exactly the type of homerism I was talking about. Sorry that Joey Porter should have been flagged. Sorry that Bryant's TD was incorrectly ruled (only had a foot down when he controlled the ball). Sorry that two players, regardless of their history, lost their head at the end of the game and it cost your team. But let's call a spade a spade...your rant was the epitome of homerism.

You know, I take the time to give you a reasoned response on why Bengals fans are pissed and you just broken record me with the homerism bit. I've said a hundred times the Burfict flag was warranted; just call the game even across the board. This isn't about last night's game; this is about years of calling a spade a spade. That's homerism? I mean, I wouldn't expect a Cowboys fan to understand calls not going your way, but what am I missing here?

BuckeyeRed27

01-10-2016, 08:51 PM

1. That was an illegal and dirty play. Shazier lead with his helmet. His head was down.
2. The official who failed to call a penalty on that play was incompetent.

It's also pathetic that the NFL has a rule and procedure to review if our unconscious running back fumbled, but can't use the same procedure to verify if it was a illegal hit. College football has this rule and if Shazier still played for the Buckeyes he would have got to watch the fourth quarter from the locker room. But you know the NFL really cares about player safety.

RedTeamGo!

01-10-2016, 09:03 PM

Here's the hit.

http://www.sbnation.com/2016/1/9/10743696/bengals-steelers-playoffs-fight-helmet-hit-giovani-bernard-ryan-shazier

That hit was just about the point where the refs lost control of the game. Failing to penalize Shazier for that hit was pretty much the signal to Bengals players that they weren't going to get any help from the refs. I've seen commentary which has suggested that that was both the spark that gave the Bengals life, yet also lit the fuse to the explosion at the end of the game. Shazier clearly drops his helmet down to spear Bernard. The hit left Bernard unconscious for a period of time and caused him to leave the game.

Rather than say what it was, a penalty. Nance, Simms, and Mike Carey proceeded to spend the next five minutes absolving the refs and Shazier of any wrongdoing, and I have yet to hear anyone in the national media call out Shazier for spearing. Leading with the helmet is always a dangerous play and always a penalty, "defenseless receiver" or not. Not only could it have ended Bernard's career, it could have also ended Shazier's. Players have been left paralyzed on those kinds of hits.

Yup, Shaziers hit deserved a flag as well. Wasn't as dumb as Burficts though.

traderumor

01-10-2016, 09:05 PM

You know, the whole "homer" thing is so ridiculous anyhow. Fans of all types come and talk about the game as a place to process. It is cathartic and helps folks deal with the emotions of their team losing in heart wrenching fashion. That's all this is. So what if their view is a little slanted by being a fan of the team? In this case, it was not, the fan wanted a fair game. But so what if it was? This forum is to help a fan talk to others and check their thinking. I felt like a loon for taking the "we got screwed" route, so it was relief to see others who I know are pretty level headed saying "yea, that was a screw job in a lot of ways."

RedsBaron

01-10-2016, 09:09 PM

Yup, Shaziers hit deserved a flag as well. Wasn't as dumb as Burficts though.

Yep. Both hits were dirty, but Burficts's hit was stupid.

traderumor

01-10-2016, 09:17 PM

Yep. Both hits were dirty, but Burficts's hit was stupid.I think it was unnecessary more than stupid. Isn't he thinking, "if I blow him up, I can make this an incompletion or an interception?" and isn't that a good play? Aren't the Steelers looking to blow up a guy at any time to jar the ball? Blowing up a guy is the name of the game. The timing could have made it a hero play just as much as it made it a goat play. I would guess that the players are in the mindset of blowing up and making the refs make a call. That is what Shazier's play appeared to be. He was gonna blow up Bernard and dare the ref to make a call.

KoryMac5

01-10-2016, 09:17 PM

If Tomlin doesn't have an issue with the Burfict hit then neither do I at this point, he even compared it to the Eifert hit in the 2nd game with Pitts. Burfict has a ton of talent but he's on 10 right now and we need him to play more at a 7 or an 8. Not sure we have the staff on this team to help him tap into that medium.

RedTeamGo!

01-10-2016, 09:18 PM

dubc47834

01-10-2016, 09:20 PM

Plays like that happen every single week. The game is fast, he hit him with his shoulder.

I know you think Burfict is the devil though, you've had a problem with him for years. Everyone in this thread admits he plays dirty at times, I am not sure what else you are wanting to hear.

So much about this game that is already getting forgotten about.

DeCastro pummels Burfict, throws him down, weeks after eye gouging Gilberry, no flag on either play though. Honestly, if you want an example of the refs being malicious towards the Bengals that might have been the sequence just as much as the Gio no call.

But Vontaze is evil, the Steelers just play hard nosed blah blah blah

Burfect lowered his shoulder to hit that dude in the head, it's so obvious. Burfect thought the game was in the bag and saw that the reciever didn't make a catch a said here's my chance. Burfect is out of control and if the Bengals were smart, they would release him. He's lucky he didn't get his coach fired. Idiots like him don't realize their actions affect more than just them.

dubc47834

01-10-2016, 09:23 PM

So what about Shazier? Do you have the same amount of disgust for him? His hit could very well have ended Bernard's career. The only difference is that Shazier didn't get so much as flagged, and because he had a Steelers jersey, the announcers made every effort to justify his hit.

Shaziers play was perfectly legal as Bernard wasn't defenseless. He turned to run the ball and got plastered, that's football. Burfects hit was dirty, goin after his head. Com'on man, you can't be serious

traderumor

01-10-2016, 09:25 PM

Not sure if the "homer" stuff is in response to me calling wolf boy a homer or not, but I would just like to point out it was in retaliation for him stating I have no clue. I consider myself a Reds homer, so I really don't see it as much of an insult.It was a general comment because the "homer" insult always comes out with games like this. Its a Reds board with a butt load of dually diagnosed Bengals fans. Calling folks homers on this board is just baiting.

reds1869

01-10-2016, 09:28 PM

Shaziers play was perfectly legal as Bernard wasn't defenseless. He turned to run the ball and got plastered, that's football. Burfects hit was dirty, goin after his head. Com'on man, you can't be serious

It has nothing to do with the defenseless receiver rules. Leading with the crown with a lowered head is always illegal regardless of intent. The rule has been referenced, posted and linked multiple times in this thread.

traderumor

01-10-2016, 09:28 PM

Shaziers play was perfectly legal as Bernard wasn't defenseless. He turned to run the ball and got plastered, that's football. Burfects hit was dirty, goin after his head. Com'on man, you can't be seriousIt's B-U-R-F-I-C-T. You should also read the facts about the rule posted in this discussion before advancing your argument any further.

BuckeyeRed27

01-10-2016, 09:29 PM

Hoosier Red

01-10-2016, 09:31 PM

Sorry if I'm repeating other posts here, but I finally got to a computer with a real keyboard and I have a feeling this may turn into a long post

While it makes for a good story to say that Tez lost the game for the Bengals, it not only ignores the other factors that led to the loss, but also ignores the fact that the Bengals wouldn't be in the position to lose a lead if it wasn't for the superhuman efforts. I've loved the twitterati's recounting that Burfict was practically out of control all night and it was only a matter of time before the bomb blew up. Yeah he was completely out of control with a forced fumble, an interception, a sack and what 6 tackles?

That said, the penalties by Burfict and Jones were damaging. Jones' penalty irritates me more than Tez's because it happened completely absent the play. JUST WALK AWAY.

One of the twitter guys I follow @joegoodberry made a really good analogy. Burfict and Jones are basically The Incredible Hulk.
- The Bengals want and NEED their intensity. The rest of the defense feed s off it, and they need Vontaze and PacMan playing with this high emotional intensity.
- But whenever you amp up the pressure and intensity, you're flirting with disaster. As Joe says, "there's always collateral damage."

As of right now, I'd say the Bengals can deal with the collateral damage, but it has to be taken into account when evaluating the two player's contributions.

dubc47834

01-10-2016, 09:32 PM

It's B-U-R-F-I-C-T. You should also read the facts about the rule posted in this discussion before advancing your argument any further.

Oh yeah, the I can't get him for something so I'll get him for his spelling. I really thought I would come on here and see anger toward a couple of the Bengals players. Not a bunch of butthurt fans screaming about calls that didn't go their way...LOLOLOLOLOLOL.

traderumor

01-10-2016, 09:35 PM

Oh yeah, the I can't get him for something so I'll get him for his spelling. I really thought I would come on here and see anger toward a couple of the Bengals players. Not a bunch of butthurt fans screaming about calls that didn't go their way...LOLOLOLOLOLOL.Ok, thanks for stopping by. You have contributed so much to this conversation. I feel enriched.

WVRed

01-10-2016, 09:36 PM

Burfect lowered his shoulder to hit that dude in the head, it's so obvious. Burfect thought the game was in the bag and saw that the reciever didn't make a catch a said here's my chance. Burfect is out of control and if the Bengals were smart, they would release him. He's lucky he didn't get his coach fired. Idiots like him don't realize their actions affect more than just them.

If the Bengals released Burfict, the Steelers (and half the teams in the league) would be in line to sign him.

Book it.

reds1869

01-10-2016, 09:36 PM

The Operator

01-10-2016, 09:38 PM

Oh yeah, the I can't get him for something so I'll get him for his spelling. I really thought I would come on here and see anger toward a couple of the Bengals players. Not a bunch of butthurt fans screaming about calls that didn't go their way...LOLOLOLOLOLOL.Seriously, knock it off. If you want to be a troll and use terms like "butt hurt" I'm sure they'd love to have you over at Reddit or on some of the ESPN forums.

You've shown that you clearly don't understand the rule but in typical troll fashion you're digging in and refuse to admit you've been proven wrong. It's like you're reading right from cue cards that Jim Nantz used last night.

Razor Shines

01-10-2016, 09:38 PM

757690

01-10-2016, 09:41 PM

Oh yeah, the I can't get him for something so I'll get him for his spelling. I really thought I would come on here and see anger toward a couple of the Bengals players. Not a bunch of butthurt fans screaming about calls that didn't go their way...LOLOLOLOLOLOL.

Dude, you were "gotten" on being wrong about the legality of Shazier's hit. Though, I can't blame anyone for thinking that. CBS and the media has gotten it wrong since it happened. Also, if you read this thread, the majority of it was anger towards the Bengals for blowing it, so, wrong again.

My advice is for you to just walk away from this thread and pretend you never posted anything in it ;)

Oxilon

01-10-2016, 09:41 PM

Yachtzee

01-10-2016, 09:43 PM

Yup, Shaziers hit deserved a flag as well. Wasn't as dumb as Burficts though.

Burfict was dumb for tactical reasons, but I would argue that Shazier was dumb because he endangered himself as well as Bernard. Every time I see a player lead with the helmet like that, I think of David Pollack, lying motionless on the field with broken vertebrae in his neck.

Fil3232

01-10-2016, 09:43 PM

wolfboy

01-10-2016, 09:47 PM

Shaziers play was perfectly legal as Bernard wasn't defenseless. He turned to run the ball and got plastered, that's football. Burfects hit was dirty, goin after his head. Com'on man, you can't be serious

How is leading with the crown of the helmet legal. This is the exact garbage I'm talking about.

Hoosier Red

01-10-2016, 09:49 PM

Burfict anger I get, but Jones anger should be unwarranted. Joey Porter, who somehow 4 years after retirement, is still impacting Bengals/Steelers games. Porter came out there and instigated everything. The referee, at the very least, should have called offsetting penalties.

Porter's instigation, while annoying and deserving of a penalty, didn't require a response. In fact, it's exactly the response Porter was trying to elicit.
I realize that it can be difficult to control one's emotions in such a heated situation, but sometimes' we're asked to do these tough things.

dubc47834

01-10-2016, 09:50 PM

If the Bengals released Burfict, the Steelers (and half the teams in the league) would be in line to sign him.

Book it.

I doubt it

wolfboy

01-10-2016, 09:50 PM

wolfboy

01-10-2016, 09:52 PM

I doubt it

We'll consider the source.

757690

01-10-2016, 09:53 PM

I think Joe Pos gets it mostly right. I take issue with Burfict's sack of Ben being even the slightest bit "dirty" or illegal. Otherwise, as far as the national media goes, this is closest to describing the frustration i feel.

http://sportsworld.nbcsports.com/bengals-steelers-referees-vontaze-burfict-antonio-brown-joey-porter/

Poz sums up exactly why I don't follow football anymore. The games are decided more often by how poorly trained refs interpret a poorly written rule book. Seriously, after every big play, I no longer focus on what a great play it was, but wonder how the refs will rule on it.

wolfboy

01-10-2016, 09:54 PM

Poz sums up exactly why I don't follow football anymore. The games are decided more often by how poorly trained refs interpret a poorly written rule book. Seriously, after every big play, I no longer focus on what a great play it was, but wonder how the refs will rule on it.

Couldn't agree more. The biggest question all season is what constitutes a catch. How insane is that?

Hoosier Red

01-10-2016, 09:54 PM

I doubt it

They've certainly had no problem with James Harrison's "dirty" play over the years. (Nor did the Bengals for a season)
They had no problems with Joey Porter's act when it suited them. I'm sure I could list others but what's the point.

jojo

01-10-2016, 09:55 PM

You're a Reds fan and a Cowboys fan. Interesting enough in and of itself.

You're on a Reds board with a corollary board dedicated to the other professional team in the city. Of which you are not a fan.

I don't give a crap about your motivations. But spare us all the "I'm an indifferent, impartial observer and therefore correct!" crap. That act is so tiresome. Worry about your Cowboys. Better yet, worry about that plane in which our interests intersect. The Reds. They're not going to burden anyone with a playoff appearance this year.

Just like the Cowboys. And Greg Hardy.

Actually, the crap attitude is telling someone to go somewhere else if they're not going to be a homer on a message board that brags about itself as being a place for the highest quality discussion.

Yachtzee

01-10-2016, 09:56 PM

I doubt it

The Cowboys had no problems picking up Greg Hardy. If you think Burfict wouldn't be welcomed with open arms on most teams, I think you'll be disappointed. In fact, my guess would be the Steelers and Patriots would be at the front of the line.

dubc47834

01-10-2016, 10:26 PM

Seriously, knock it off. If you want to be a troll and use terms like "butt hurt" I'm sure they'd love to have you over at Reddit or on some of the ESPN forums.

You've shown that you clearly don't understand the rule but in typical troll fashion you're digging in and refuse to admit you've been proven wrong. It's like you're reading right from cue cards that Jim Nantz used last night.

I think my posting history will show I'm not a troll. Sure, I could have picked a more board friendly term than butt hurt. You can argue the legality of the hit on Bernard, but it's not reviewable. The overwhelming majority in the sports world, that I have seen today, have said that was a judgement call. Sure he lowere his head and by rule that's a flag. Also from what I have saw today, the BurFICT hit was a dirty hit and the right call. There are waaaay more people saying that was the correct call than saying the Shazier hit was a wrong call. In that situation BurFICT and Jones can not act the way they did, you just can't. They cost their team a playoff win and could have cost their coach his job. If I was the GM BurFICT. Would lose his job.

dubc47834

01-10-2016, 10:28 PM

The Operator

01-10-2016, 10:30 PM

I think my posting history will show I'm not a troll. Sure, I could have picked a more board friendly term than butt hurt. You can argue the legality of the hit on Bernard, but it's not reviewable. The overwhelming majority in the sports world, that I have seen today, have said that was a judgement call. Sure he lowere his head and by rule that's a flag. Also from what I have saw today, the BurFICT hit was a dirty hit and the right call. There are waaaay more people saying that was the correct call than saying the Shazier hit was a wrong call. In that situation BurFICT and Jones can not act the way they did, you just can't. They cost their team a playoff win and could have cost their coach his job. If I was the GM BurFICT. Would lose his job.What good is cutting Burfict going to do? He'll wind up being immediately picked up by another team (probably The Steelers) and then he'll be laying our guys out. No thanks.

And sorry, the Shazier hit was not a "judgment call". It was a 10000000% illegal hit and he should have been flagged for it. But alas, he's a Pittsburgh Steeler so he got away with it.

I could honestly care less if you've seen people saying it was borderline, etc. The rules disagree. Jim Nantz, Phil Simms, and Mike Carey all got it wrong last night too. Because they don't know the rules. The fact that Mike Carey got it wrong is the most egregious - it shows how stupid most NFL officials are.

dubc47834

01-10-2016, 10:38 PM

What good is cutting Burfict going to do? He'll wind up being immediately picked up by another team (probably The Steelers) and then he'll be laying our guys out. No thanks.

And sorry, the Shazier hit was not a "judgment call". It was a 10000000% illegal hit and he should have been flagged for it. But alas, he's a Pittsburgh Steeler so he got away with it.

I could honestly care less if you've seen people saying it was borderline, etc. The rules disagree. Jim Nantz, Phil Simms, and Mike Carey all got it wrong last night too. Because they don't know the rules. The fact that Mike Carey got it wrong is the most egregious - it shows how stupid most NFL officials are.

Releasing him he wont cost your Bengals another playoff loss. Let the Steelers pick him up cost them a loss, but then again Tomlin or Belicheck would probably get his head halfway right. That's the problem/view of the Bengals, a bunch of out of control players over the years. I get it, Redszone is right and most of the national media who have played football are wrong. I get it, I'm the bad guy in this thread because my point of view doesn't match up with those on here....all good.

The Operator

01-10-2016, 11:00 PM

Releasing him he wont cost your Bengals another playoff loss. Let the Steelers pick him up cost them a loss, but then again Tomlin or Belicheck would probably get his head halfway right. That's the problem/view of the Bengals, a bunch of out of control players over the years. I get it, Redszone is right and most of the national media who have played football are wrong. I get it, I'm the bad guy in this thread because my point of view doesn't match up with those on here....all good.Who cares if members of the national media have played football? You do realize that having athletic ability doesn't mean you're smart or properly understand the rules, right? I mean hell, in 2008 Donovan McNabb admitted after a game that ended in a tie that he didn't even realize NFL games could end in ties until the game was over. That's a high profile QB of a football team flat out admitting he didn't know all the rules. Again, athletic talent does not equal brains.

And you do realize your whole "Yea but he won't cost another playoff loss if they release him" line of logic is incredibly flawed, right? Because it could be argued that if he wasn't in the game last night, the score never would have been close enough for his penalty to even have mattered. You don't just replace a guy like Burfict with Joe Schmo linebacker and get the same production with none of the penalties. Doesn't work like that.

You can't just say "OMG LOL he did something stupid, cut him and Bengals win!".

Wonderful Monds

01-10-2016, 11:04 PM

Just shut up dude. You have demonstrably proven you don't know what you're talking about.

dubc47834

01-10-2016, 11:05 PM

Who cares if members of the national media have played football? You do realize that having athletic ability doesn't mean you're smart or properly understand the rules, right? I mean hell, in 2008 Donovan McNabb admitted after a game that ended in a tie that he didn't even realize NFL games could end in ties until the game was over. That's the QB of a football team flat out admitting he didn't know all the rules. Again, athletic talent does not equal brains.

And you do realize your whole "Yea but he won't cost another playoff loss if they release him" line of logic is incredibly flawed, right? Because it could be argued that if he wasn't in the game last night, the score never would have been close enough for his penalty to even have mattered. You don't just replace a guy like Burfict with Joe Schmo linebacker and get the same production with none of the penalties. Doesn't work like that.

You can't just say "OMG LOL he did something stupid, cut him and Bengals win!".

You can argue that if he wasn't in the game the Bengals might not be in that position, but what you can't argue is he did cost the Bengals a win. People argue all the time they don't want certain type guys on their team...until he's on your team.

dubc47834

01-10-2016, 11:06 PM

Just shut up dude. You have demonstrably proven you don't know what you're talking about.

Really......

Because I don't share your opinion???

Wonderful Monds

01-10-2016, 11:07 PM

Yep. You don't understand the rule = you wrong. Pretty simple equation.

The Operator

01-10-2016, 11:09 PM

You can argue that if he wasn't in the game the Bengals might not be in that position, but what you can't argue is he did cost the Bengals a win. People argue all the time they don't want certain type guys on their team...until he's on your team.I absolutely can argue that.

You could also argue that Jeremy Hill not fumbling the ball cost The Bengals a win.

You could also argue that Shazier spearing Bernard and not only not getting flagged for it but getting rewarded with a turnover by idiot officials cost The Bengals a win.

You could also argue that Joey Porter being a loowed to troll The Bengals in their own huddle when he had no business on the field and then flagging Adam Jones for getting pissed about it cost The Bengals a win.

dubc47834

01-10-2016, 11:11 PM

I absolutely can argue that.

You could also argue that Jeremy Hill not fumbling the ball cost The Bengals a win.

You could also argue that Shazier spearing Bernard and not only not getting flagged for it but getting rewarded with a turnover by idiot officials cost The Bengals a win.

You could also argue that Joey Porter being a loowed to troll The Bengals in their own huddle when he had no business on the field and then flagging Adam Jones for getting pissed about it cost The Bengals a win.

That other stuff didn't directly lead to a GW field goal being kicked

dubc47834

01-10-2016, 11:13 PM

Yep. You don't understand the rule = you wrong. Pretty simple equation.

I understand the rule, he lowered his head. Shoulda been a flag. But at full speed it's a judgement call, you can't review it.

The Operator

01-10-2016, 11:14 PM

How anyone can even remotely debate the legality of this with a straight faceis beyond me.

https://cdn3.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/I4GgZmSr1zQSNWWDrV1dA4-4pWQ=/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/5890619/gio2.0.gif

Wonderful Monds

01-10-2016, 11:14 PM

Really......

Because I don't share your opinion???

What is supposedly a opinion? As far as I can tell, you think Shazier's hit on Bernard was legal and did not warrant anything, which is not only not an opinion, it's objectively false.

BluegrassRedleg

01-10-2016, 11:16 PM

And sorry, the Shazier hit was not a "judgment call". It was a 10000000% illegal hit and he should have been flagged for it. But alas, he's a Pittsburgh Steeler so he got away with it.

They are judgment calls. Intent is often weighed. This is an example from the other perspective earlier this season:

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2015/12/michael-bennett-not-fined-for-roethlisberger-hit/

Oxilon

01-10-2016, 11:16 PM

That other stuff didn't directly lead to a GW field goal being kicked

Well, technically the last point did. But regardless, it's short-sighted to only look at the last play of the game when the other events are just as impactful on the outcome.

The Operator

01-10-2016, 11:17 PM

That other stuff didn't directly lead to a GW field goal being kickedSo? And in fact, Burfict's penalty would have made it a 50-yard field goal which is by no means a guarantee.

It wasn't until Adam Jones got flagged for being pissed (understandably - I would have been pissed as well) that Joey Porter was allowed to troll them in their own huddle that it became a 35-yard chip shot.

757690

01-10-2016, 11:17 PM

Releasing him he wont cost your Bengals another playoff loss. Let the Steelers pick him up cost them a loss, but then again Tomlin or Belicheck would probably get his head halfway right. That's the problem/view of the Bengals, a bunch of out of control players over the years. I get it, Redszone is right and most of the national media who have played football are wrong. I get it, I'm the bad guy in this thread because my point of view doesn't match up with those on here....all good.

In this thread, multiple links to national stories about the game have stated clearly that the Shazier hit was illegal and the refs blew it by not calling it.

Here is one more that says that you are completely wrong. This has nothing to do with Bengal fans or homerism. It's about the rule, and you and the refs got it wrong.

http://deadspin.com/giovani-bernard-and-the-unfortunate-hit-that-knocked-1752060073

Here is the rule for the umpteenth time.

ARTICLE 8. INITIATING CONTACT WITH THE CROWN OF THE HELMET. It is a foul if a runner or tackler initiates forcible contact by delivering a blow with the top/crown of his helmet against an opponent when both players are clearly outside the tackle box (an area extending from tackle to tackle and from three yards beyond the line of scrimmage to the offensive team’s end line). Incidental contact by the helmet of a runner or tackler against an opponent shall not be a foul.

Wonderful Monds

01-10-2016, 11:17 PM

I understand the rule, he lowered his head. Shoulda been a flag. But at full speed it's a judgement call, you can't review it.

Nah, they can and do throw flags albeit all the time upon seeing footage. Hell, the Bengals benefited from this a few weeks ago after the initial facemasking no-call on, I'm pretty sure, McCarron vs. Denver, but then they looked up at the screen, saw it plain as day and threw the flag.

It shouldn't have needed review regardless - it's plainly an illegal hit in real time, half time, or warp time. No discussion. No debate. End of story.

dubc47834

01-10-2016, 11:17 PM

What is supposedly a opinion? As far as I can tell, you think Shazier's hit on Bernard was legal and did not warrant anything, which is not only not an opinion, it's objectively false.

Reread my post. I've said it shoulda been flagged. The opinion I'm talking about is about the ending of the game in general. The refs didn't cost the Bengals that game, the Bengals did.

Wonderful Monds

01-10-2016, 11:19 PM

Reread my post. I've said it shoulda been flagged. The opinion I'm talking about is about the ending of the game in general. The refs didn't cost the Bengals that game, the Bengals did.

Little column A, little column B. The Bengals had a meltdown, yes, in a ridiculous joke and sham of a situation they should have never had to be in in the first place.

The Operator

01-10-2016, 11:19 PM

They are judgment calls. Intent is often weighed. This is an example from the other perspective earlier this season:

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2015/12/michael-bennett-not-fined-for-roethlisberger-hit/Okay, if intent matters - what reasonable person can look at that hit and not think Shazier is trying to maime Bernard?

dubc47834

01-10-2016, 11:19 PM

In this thread, multiple links to national stories about the game have stated clearly that the Shazier hit was illegal and the refs blew it by not calling it.

Here is one more that says that you are completely wrong. This has nothing to do with Bengal fans or homerism. It's about the rule, and you and the refs got it wrong.

http://deadspin.com/giovani-bernard-and-the-unfortunate-hit-that-knocked-1752060073

Here is the rule for the umpteenth time.

Reread my post, I know the play shoulda been flagged.

dubc47834

01-10-2016, 11:21 PM

Little column A, little column B. The Bengals had a meltdown, yes, in a ridiculous joke and sham of a situation they should have never had to be in in the first place.

If they don't melt down, they prolly win that game. An organization that is better ran rarely lose like that.

Oxilon

01-10-2016, 11:21 PM

I understand the rule, he lowered his head. Shoulda been a flag. But at full speed it's a judgement call, you can't review it.

Refs have such a quick trigger with flags now, you would have thought it would have been thrown. Especially since the refs were on high alert coming into this game and earlier demonstrated their presence when they tacked on a personal foul to Shawn Williams' big, ironically, legal hit. I wonder what the ref was thinking when he was reviewing the play and heard the echoes of boos pour down as the replay was shown on the big screen? I wonder if the ref even knew that was an illegal hit upon seeing the replay? Mike Carey didn't.

Wonderful Monds

01-10-2016, 11:21 PM

Okay, if intent matters - what reasonable person can look at that hit and not think Shazier is trying to maime Bernard?

Especially given his jackass prancing around in the endzone after the hit - AND THEN EVEN AFTER LEARNING IT WAS NOT A TD: dancing on the Bengals logo midfield and then mocking Gio being knocked out.

I hope for the absolute worst that can happen on a football field to that piece of human garbage.

dubc47834

01-10-2016, 11:25 PM

Okay, if intent matters - what reasonable person can look at that hit and not think Shazier is trying to maime Bernard?

OK...by letter of the rule you're not suppose to wrap your arms around the QB on a sack. So does that mean the BurFICT hit was illegal?

BuckeyeRed27

01-10-2016, 11:31 PM

I understand the rule, he lowered his head. Shoulda been a flag. But at full speed it's a judgement call, you can't review it.

That's the thing though, it isn't a judgement call. You can easily review it.

dubc47834

01-10-2016, 11:31 PM

That's the thing though, it isn't a judgement call. You can easily review it.

I don't think you can review that call, not in the NFL

Chip R

01-10-2016, 11:32 PM

So if Shazier's hit was legal and it was a fumble, why weren't the Steelers awarded a touchdown? IMO, that was spearing. However, that is rarely called unless it's on a QB. I think it's safe to say players lead with the helmet all the time. That's not excusing it. However it's akin to holding. If they call it as often as it happens, the games will last 5 hours. That is something that should be called. If the NFL is as serious as they say about player safety, they need to start calling those hits.

Oxilon

01-10-2016, 11:36 PM

The entire game was a powder keg waiting to explode. The fuse was finally lit on the Shazier/Bernard fiasco. The refs screwed up horrendously (shocker) and completely altered the course of the game. Should have been the Bengals' ball w/in the 10 yard line and keeping their momentum. Instead it was Steelers' ball of all things. To make matters worse, the Steelers' started celebrating the hit as Bernard lay unconscious on the field. That's the exact moment this went from a football game to a brawl. All instigated by poor officiating. Welcome to Goodell's NFL. :rolleyes:

Going forward, the national perception is "the Bungles can't win the big one and are dirty." Bengals' will have to answer for their primetime performance woes for another full season. And Bengal fans will hate the Steelers even more and think they're dirty. Meanwhile, I will be enjoying my Sundays going forward stress-free because I finally came to the conclusion the NFL is nothing more than an adult version of the WWE.

Wonderful Monds

01-10-2016, 11:40 PM

BuckeyeRed27

01-10-2016, 11:49 PM

I don't think you can review that call, not in the NFL

Right you can't, but there is no reason you can't.

RedTeamGo!

01-11-2016, 12:16 AM

The idea the NFL is completely fixed is ridiculous, but, I must say it gets old watching the Packers and Steelers make the playoffs and advance every year.

But the reason they make the playoffs and advance is because they have good quarterbacks and WRs, not because "it's fixed!!"

Redsfaithful

01-11-2016, 12:16 AM

Bengals' will have to answer for their primetime performance woes for another full season.

Week 1 will be the Sunday night or Monday night game against the Steelers, with Burfict suspended. Way the NFL rolls.

Dom Heffner

01-11-2016, 12:22 AM

Yup, Shaziers hit deserved a flag as well. Wasn't as dumb as Burficts though.

?

Where do you come up with this crap.

RedTeamGo!

01-11-2016, 01:48 AM

?

Where do you come up with this crap.

Huh? What are you referring to?

I agreed Shaziers hit was bad and deserved a flag, but I think the timing of Burficts was dumber. What crap?

GAC

01-11-2016, 05:23 AM

That's true. And that's ultimately on Hill and maybe Marvin. Have to run the clock and make them use their time outs then kick the field goal to go up by 4. Kneeling three times when it's raining wouldn't be the worst decision there.

I absolutely agree with you on this dude. Take knees, make them use their timeouts, and then punt it away, make them go the distance of the field with an injured BR. But if Marvin had done that, and they still lost, then the accusation would have been his conservatism cost them the game. It's a lose-lose scenario for Marvin (LOL).

The Hill fumble hurt.... but the defensive penalties still cost the Bengals that game.

GAC

01-11-2016, 06:15 AM

The thought of Mike Brown regaining most control over personnel scares the life out of me. I'm perfectly happy sticking with Lewis for now and at least enjoying 10-12 win seasons and playoff appearances. I believe one of these days they'll shake the playoff monkey and make a run. Probably would have been this year if Dalton had not got hurt, but it is what it is.

And that is just so crucial. IMO, you win this game with Dalton in there. And that is not a knock on AJ either; but Dalton was so intricate to the Bengal's success this year. It makes it more difficult to win a race if the engine isn't hitting on all cylinders.

And you're absolutely right Brutus.... Marvin BUILT this team. Again - 12 wins (which this team hasn't accomplished since 1988). When Mike Brown had more control it was the "lost decade" of the 90s. It's pretty obvious that Marvin's greater control and decision-making is what has turned this organization around.

And the point was brought up earlier (concerning the penalty on Jones), and I absolutely agree .... the refs, in such a crucial (play-off) game, for both teams, should have allowed the outcome of the game to be determined on the field, not by them. What was Joey Porter doing on the field, in the middle of Bengal players, taunting them, which spurred Jones' actions, and not get flagged? They should have restored order and thrown flags on both the Steeler bench and Jones (off-setting). There was some bad officiating in that game.

I like what on commentator said about Burfict .... who was the hero in that game before the penalty ..... a player who is good enough to put his team in position to win and sometimes undisciplined enough to snatch that opportunity away.

http://espn.go.com/blog/cincinnati-bengals/post/_/id/21074/vontaze-burfict-bengals-roller-coaster-got-going-couldnt-get-off

Rey Maualuga was clairvoyant.

It was during the game's roller-coaster finish that Maualuga's words from three days earlier started ringing true.

"Sometimes things happen because we let our emotions get the best of us," Maualuga said. "But we need to think about the team and obviously not lose our composure, but at the same time not lose the thing that made us the linebacker that we are: playing physical."

The thing is... can players like Jones and Burfict, who both have a history of being the "bad boy" find that balance? I betcha Jones is not a Bengal next season. ;)

One final note..... the Bengals have company. Lets hope one former Bengal's coach (Zimmer) isn't staring down that road of win-less play-off games. Watched that Vikings-Seahawks game. How in the world do you miss a chip-shot 27 yd FG?... and miss it BADLY! I wanted the Vikes to win that game bad too.

dubc47834

01-11-2016, 07:03 AM

?

Where do you come up with this crap.

Burficts play will probably be the dumbest thing a player does this playoffs. The Shazier play happens quite often, heck, will prolly happen again and not be called at some point.

wolfboy

01-11-2016, 07:18 AM

Burficts play will probably be the dumbest thing a player does this playoffs. The Shazier play happens quite often, heck, will prolly happen again and not be called at some point.

The epitome of what every Bengals fan has griped about in this thread. Absolutely clueless.

RedTeamGo!

01-11-2016, 07:47 AM

The epitome of what every Bengals fan has griped about in this thread. Absolutely clueless.

I get that Shaziers play was an illegal hit, but there are certainly differences in the plays.

Shazier: Bernard has the ball and made a "football move" towards the defender and was facing Shazier for a split second before he was speared. Again, I agree it was an illegal hit and should have been flagged.

Burfict: Brown did not have the ball and was completely defenseless and blindsided. Burfict IMO was intentionally attempting to injure Antonio Brown and has a reputation. He is the linebacker equivalent of Ndamakong Suh. There should be no surprise he gets more attention than other linebackers.

redsfandan

01-11-2016, 08:17 AM

Steeler players getting away with calls the Bengal players don't, Steeler coaches encouraging the trouble, . . . fans can complain all day and all night. And other people will say that Bengal fans are homers or 'crying' about these things. But, the officials aren't going to treat the Bengals the same way until the Bengals PROVE that they belong in the playoffs. It's the same in baseball or any other sport. Veteran, elite players have calls that go their way when that wouldn't happen with other players. It happens. The Steelers have proven that they belong in the playoffs on a regular basis. The Bengals haven't yet. The Bengals are the team that can't win big games. The team that makes stupid mistakes and shows a lack of self-discipline and lose their cool causing them to exit the playoffs right away year after year after year. The Bengals are the team that chokes in the playoffs. And until the Bengals suck it up, shut up, and prove that they can win big games and be considered one of the best teams in the league there will continue to be times when it feels like the refs are being unfair. The Bengals need to show that they deserve the kind of respect that the Steelers, Patriots, etc receive as one of the best teams in the league. They need to show that they deserve that kind of respect not only to the rest of the league but to the refs too.

Marvin NEEDS to explain that to some of his players if the Bengals want to avoid another PBS meltdown and if he can't make them understand then they either need to replace the coach or the player(s).

dubc47834

01-11-2016, 08:18 AM

The epitome of what every Bengals fan has griped about in this thread. Absolutely clueless.

Clueless...because it's not your opinion....got it. You know what, enjoy your prime time heartache as a Bengal fan. Because with these types of players it WILL continue. As much as I hate the Patriots, Steelers, and Packers, there are reasons why they have continued success. They are well ran organizations who make their players either follow the way they want to play, you know the Patriot Way, or they ship them out...generally. If you can't see the difference between the plays then whatever, maybe you should remove the blinders. But I guess that football is staged just like the WWE, or so I've heard!

SteelSD

01-11-2016, 08:30 AM

WVRed

01-11-2016, 08:44 AM

Week 1 will be the Sunday night or Monday night game against the Steelers, with Burfict suspended. Way the NFL rolls.

Or it will be Week 5 in Pittsburgh, Burficts first game back after a 4 game suspension (that will be cut to 2). Ratings city and will be prime time.

I'd say both games will be in prime time.

indyscott

01-11-2016, 08:48 AM

Nah, they can and do throw flags albeit all the time upon seeing footage. Hell, the Bengals benefited from this a few weeks ago after the initial facemasking no-call on, I'm pretty sure, McCarron vs. Denver, but then they looked up at the screen, saw it plain as day and threw the flag.

It shouldn't have needed review regardless - it's plainly an illegal hit in real time, half time, or warp time. No discussion. No debate. End of story.

You can't look at the big screen and throw a flag.

wolfboy

01-11-2016, 09:04 AM

clueless...because it's not your opinion....got it. You know what, enjoy your prime time heartache as a bengal fan. Because with these types of players it will continue. As much as i hate the patriots, steelers, and packers, there are reasons why they have continued success. They are well ran organizations who make their players either follow the way they want to play, you know the patriot way, or they ship them out...generally. If you can't see the difference between the plays then whatever, maybe you should remove the blinders. But i guess that football is staged just like the wwe, or so i've heard!

They were both against the rules. The only difference is that one wa called and the other wasn't. What is so hard to understand about that???? The only subjective piece of this argument is that you, personally, are more offended by one hit versus the other.

dubc47834

01-11-2016, 09:12 AM

They were both against the rules. The only difference is that one wa called and the other wasn't. What is so hard to understand about that???? The only subjective piece of this argument is that you, personally, are more offended by one hit versus the other.

One hit was dirty and had intent to seriously hurt someone. The other was a hit that is very rarely called, although on the books, was generally in the chest/shoulder area. Although there was some helmet on helmet.

Also what you Bengal fans seem to forget is your fellow fans throwing stuff on the field at Steeler players/staff. But I guess that was probably ok since calls didn't go the "correct" way!!!

Dom Heffner

01-11-2016, 09:16 AM

Huh? What are you referring to?

I agreed Shaziers hit was bad and deserved a flag, but I think the timing of Burficts was dumber. What crap?

The Burfict play doesn't even happen if Shazier was flagged.

So really- the timing is bad on the official's part.

RiverRat13

01-11-2016, 09:18 AM

Could Shazier have received a flag for his hit? Wouldn't have said much had he been. Could Porter have been flagged for coming onto the field when Brown was injured. Maybe, but were the Bengals flagged for all the additional personnel that spilled onto the field of play after Bernard went down? Nope.

Burfict was completely and utterly out of control over the final two minutes of the game; doing a number of completely idiotic things. First, even if he thought he was down by contact after the interception, he took the ball and his teammates all the way back through his own end zone and right into the locker room. Had he not been down by contact, that would have resulted in a Safety; meaning a Pittsburgh lead and them getting the ball back. A flag for excessive celebration was 100% warranted as well, but nothing happened. Then the Brown hit. Then, while the Steelers medical staff was attempting to get Brown off the field, he impedes one of the Steelers' medical staff and inadvertently hits Porter in the head while attempting to shove the 60-ish staff member (very classy, Burfict):

https://vine.co/v/ihl0Yaj0DUu

Don't much care if Burfict was earnestly looking to apologize for the hit on Brown. The shove of the medical staff member also could have easily resulted in a flag had the officials seen it (and it's likely what instigated Porter seeking out an official). Porter then approaches the official and is grabbed by Burfict prior to Adam Jones' mind-numbing shove. Burfict's action there could have also resulted in a flag. At this point during the last two minutes of the game, Burfict has completed nearly half a dozen actions that risked either Steelers' points or 15-yard penalties and got away with most of them. As a Steelers fan, I've seen my share of dumb players (Shamarko Thomas is easily one of the dumber ones), but Burfict might be the best example of a guy who can single-handedly either win or lose a game almost by himself.

There's no "could" to Shazier's hit. It was a penalty. It SHOULD have been called. And if we're going to point out every instance where Burfict could have been penalized, how about Shazier DANCING AT MIDFIELD WHILE GIO BERNARD IS UNCONSCIOUS?????

Re-watch the Burfict interception. There's a whistle almost immediately. The "could have been a safety" talk is ridiculous. It's the same reason for saying Shazier could have had a touchdown is generally stupid - the whistle blew, so everyone stopped. However, I do agree that Burfict should have been flagged for celebrating.

I also agree that Burfict should know that everything he does is under the microscope and deservedly so. He's probably gotten three or four flags this year that the average player doesn't get, but that's the problem once you have a reputation. Therefore, I also agree his hit and behavior afterward was extremely stupid. It was also stupid for the Bengals not to immediately have everyone come to the sideline. It was asking for trouble. My guess is after they review what Burfict did, Porter did and Shazier's behavior, the league will require everyone to go to the sideline during an injury next year.

wolfboy

01-11-2016, 09:19 AM

I get that Shaziers play was an illegal hit, but there are certainly differences in the plays.

Shazier: Bernard has the ball and made a "football move" towards the defender and was facing Shazier for a split second before he was speared. Again, I agree it was an illegal hit and should have been flagged.

Burfict: Brown did not have the ball and was completely defenseless and blindsided. Burfict IMO was intentionally attempting to injure Antonio Brown and has a reputation. He is the linebacker equivalent of Ndamakong Suh. There should be no surprise he gets more attention than other linebackers.

The only way the plays are different is through the lens of your subjective analysis on which play bothered you more. They're both subject to penalty, fines and suspension. Burfict will get all of those (he earned it); Shazier won't (and shouldn't), but it's telling that he didn't even get a flag. I mean, other than stripping the guy of his means of earning a living, what else do you want from Burfict - a personal apology that he diminished your viewing experience? A grand jury indictment? I mean, everybody gets that you are very upset about the Burfict hit and that you don't like him. Duly noted.

dubc47834

01-11-2016, 09:20 AM

You can't look at the big screen and throw a flag.

Exactly, you can't call a flag looking at the big screen. Has it happened in the past...probably. Also doing some research online, no penalties can be review. That's not coming from the NFL rulebook, so if you have that fine, but from what I've seen...no penalty can be reviewed.

wolfboy

01-11-2016, 09:21 AM

wolfboy

01-11-2016, 09:29 AM

Could Shazier have received a flag for his hit? Wouldn't have said much had he been. Could Porter have been flagged for coming onto the field when Brown was injured. Maybe, but were the Bengals flagged for all the additional personnel that spilled onto the field of play after Bernard went down? Nope.

Burfict was completely and utterly out of control over the final two minutes of the game; doing a number of completely idiotic things. First, even if he thought he was down by contact after the interception, he took the ball and his teammates all the way back through his own end zone and right into the locker room. Had he not been down by contact, that would have resulted in a Safety; meaning a Pittsburgh lead and them getting the ball back. A flag for excessive celebration was 100% warranted as well, but nothing happened. Then the Brown hit. Then, while the Steelers medical staff was attempting to get Brown off the field, he impedes one of the Steelers' medical staff and inadvertently hits Porter in the head while attempting to shove the 60-ish staff member (very classy, Burfict):

https://vine.co/v/ihl0Yaj0DUu

Don't much care if Burfict was earnestly looking to apologize for the hit on Brown. The shove of the medical staff member also could have easily resulted in a flag had the officials seen it (and it's likely what instigated Porter seeking out an official). Porter then approaches the official and is grabbed by Burfict prior to Adam Jones' mind-numbing shove. Burfict's action there could have also resulted in a flag. At this point during the last two minutes of the game, Burfict has completed nearly half a dozen actions that risked either Steelers' points or 15-yard penalties and got away with most of them. As a Steelers fan, I've seen my share of dumb players (Shamarko Thomas is easily one of the dumber ones), but Burfict might be the best example of a guy who can single-handedly either win or lose a game almost by himself.

I'll be honest with you - the Shazier hit and no flag wouldn't have bothered me much if we hadn't seen the same damn thing in our last game with the hit on Eifert. I mean, how do you miss the flag on those two plays? As for Porter, I think the main gripe is not that he was on the field, but that he was right in the middle of the Bengals huddle talking trash. I think the league acknowledged that or Porter wouldn't be looking at a fine. And let's be honest, if we're going to make calls based on Burfict's reputation, we can't ignore the fact that Porter has a reputation as well. He should have been flagged, but ultimately Jones got played by Porter and that's on Jones. As to Burfict being out of control for the last few minutes, I guess that's one way of looking at it. The other way to look at it is that he put the fear of God in the Steelers and completely took over the game. But for Burfict, we're talking about a 15-0 (or more) Steelers win.

Dom Heffner

01-11-2016, 09:35 AM

One hit was dirty and had intent to seriously hurt someone. The other was a hit that is very rarely called, although on the books, was generally in the chest/shoulder area. Although there was some helmet on helmet.

Also what you Bengal fans seem to forget is your fellow fans throwing stuff on the field at Steeler players/staff. But I guess that was probably ok since calls didn't go the "correct" way!!!

This team, this city, these fans are simply not going to take it anymore.

We're not taking it from you, from Jim Nance, from Joey Porter, from the dirty awful organization that is the Pittsburgh Steelers.

Shut up.

We have to- year after year- listen to how "hard hitting" and goddamn wonderful the Steelers brand of physical football is.

It's mostly illegal, nobody does much.

At best you could call it legal but unnecessary.

Keith Gary. Hines Ward. Joey Porter. Keno Von $&@;face.

I could go on and on and on.

Their QB raped two women. Their head coach stepped on the field during a play. One coach pulled a guy's hair. One stepped onto the field and instigated a team but didn't get a flag. Nothing ever happens to them of consequence. Ever. They are the greatest team and hey, can we watch that dirty play by Burfict over and over Jim and Phil so we can keep the narrative going about how much of a victim the Steelers are? Ick.

Shazier.

And all we have to listen to, for perpetuity, apparently, is how wonderful they are and how everyone should sit there and shut up about it.

Sitting on your hands taking all this makes you a *****. It makes you a whimp. Being the better person sounds fine but when it gets more of this crap, it's sort of pointless.

I thank heavens for Vontaze Burfict because he got angry about that god awful excuse for a football team and put Roethlisberger on his ass and out the door. My only complaint is he didn't knock him out enough.

That play turned that game around and it's worked for Pittsburgh for decades so why can't it work for us?

Them: clean but unfortunate.

Us: dirty.

This city should throw things and make a stink and the players should retaliate because that's how you deal with a freaking bully. Especially when the NFL is like that stupid teacher who shows up to a fight and punishes the dude who hits back instead of the one who started it.

Letters to the editor are fine when it comes to parking issues and gerrymandering, not the Pittsburgh Steelers and the NFL.

dubc47834

01-11-2016, 09:38 AM

I'll be honest with you - the Shazier hit and no flag wouldn't have bothered me much if we hadn't seen the same damn thing in our last game with the hit on Eifert. I mean, how do you miss the flag on those two plays? As for Porter, I think the main gripe is not that he was on the field, but that he was right in the middle of the Bengals huddle talking trash. I think the league acknowledged that or Porter wouldn't be looking at a fine. And let's be honest, if we're going to make calls based on Burfict's reputation, we can't ignore the fact that Porter has a reputation as well. He should have been flagged, but ultimately Jones got played by Porter and that's on Jones. As to Burfict being out of control for the last few minutes, I guess that's one way of looking at it. The other way to look at it is that he put the fear of God in the Steelers and completely took over the game. But for Burfict, we're talking about a 15-0 (or more) Steelers win.

Yeah, he took over the game, by costing his team the game!!! Porter's rep doesn't have much into his role in this. He is a coach, if he's on the field he needs flagged. Which he most definitely should have been.

alwaysawarrior

01-11-2016, 09:40 AM

I'm not going to rehash everything in this thread, but I will say this, either the league is out and out fixed or they will at least do their damndest to make sure who they want to win is going to have the best chance to. Either way it doesn't interest me anymore. I removed the NFL app from my phone and will not watch even a second of the rest of the playoffs. As a matter of fact I don't have any idea who won yesterday's games. I'll be back to watch the bengals next year but will not be anywhere near as involved in any other games. It's either massive incompetence or corruption that a game like that goes on.

dubc47834

01-11-2016, 09:41 AM

This team, this city, these fans are simply not going to take it anymore.

We're not taking it from you, from Jim Nance, from Joey Porter, from the dirty awful organization that is the Pittsburgh Steelers.

Shut up.

We have to- year after year- listen to how "hard hitting" and goddamn wonderful the Steelers brand of physical football is.

It's mostly illegal, nobody does much.

At best you could call it legal but unnecessary.

Keith Gary. Hines Ward. Joey Porter. Keno Von $&@;face.

I could go on and on and on.

Their QB raped two women. Their head coach stepped on the field during a play. One coach pulled a guy's hair. One stepped onto the field and instigated a team but didn't get a flag. Nothing ever happens to them of consequence. Ever. They are the greatest team and hey, can we watch that dirty play by Burfict over and over Jim and Phil so we can keep the narrative going about how much of a victim the Steelers are? Ick.

Shazier.

And all we have to listen to, for perpetuity, apparently, is how wonderful they are and how everyone should sit there and shut up about it.

Sitting on your hands taking all this makes you a *****. It makes you a whimp. Being the better person sounds fine but when it gets more of this crap, it's sort of pointless.

I thank heavens for Vontaze Burfict because he got angry about that god awful excuse for a football team and put Roethlisberger on his ass and out the door. My only complaint is he didn't knock him out enough.

That play turned that game around and it's worked for Pittsburgh for decades so why can't it work for us?

Them: clean but unfortunate.

Us: dirty.

This city should throw things and make a stink and the players should retaliate because that's how you deal with a freaking bully. Especially when the NFL is like that stupid teacher who shows up to a fight and punishes the dude who hits back instead of the one who started it.

Letters to the editor are fine when it comes to parking issues and gerrymandering, not the Pittsburgh Steelers and the NFL.

WOW...OK. Do we really want to go look at rap sheets, because your Bengals have a plenty long one themselves!!! Also, not taking it anymore doesn't give your fans the right to throw stuff on the field...which is illegal!

RiverRat13

01-11-2016, 09:44 AM

WOW...OK. Do we really want to go look at rap sheets, because your Bengals have a plenty long one themselves!!!

Again, you miss the point. Nobody is saying Burfict or the Bengals are saints. We're just tired of the Steelers doing more yet somehow escaping the same labels levied at the Bengals.

dubc47834

01-11-2016, 09:49 AM

Again, you miss the point. Nobody is saying Burfict or the Bengals are saints. We're just tired of the Steelers doing more yet somehow escaping the same labels levied at the Bengals.

I think most people outside of Steeler Nation have the opinion that the Steelers are bullies. I get the frustration when another team owns you. My Colts have been owned by the Patriots for years now...it sucks, but beat them on the field. Doesn't give the fans the right to break the law and throw stuff on the field. Boo and yell all the obscenities you want, but throwing stuff on the field is uncalled for. At least you have been civil on this...thanks!!!

Dom Heffner

01-11-2016, 09:51 AM

WOW...OK. Do we really want to go look at rap sheets, because your Bengals have a plenty long one themselves!!! Also, not taking it anymore doesn't give your fans the right to throw stuff on the field...which is illegal!

Give it up- it isn't working for you.

if he can hold two women down and force his ugly mug on them, he can take an empty Aquafina bottle to the helmet.

If he wants to get mad, get mad at his coaches for pulling people's hair.

Dom Heffner

01-11-2016, 09:54 AM

I think most people outside of Steeler Nation have the opinion that the Steelers are bullies. I get the frustration when another team owns you. My Colts have been owned by the Patriots for years now...it sucks, but beat them on the field. Doesn't give the fans the right to break the law and throw stuff on the field. Boo and yell all the obscenities you want, but throwing stuff on the field is uncalled for. At least you have been civil on this...thanks!!!

You see the narrative?

This is because the Bengals lost. Ha!

You see us do this to the Texans all the time lol...

You can't see past the narrative that the NFL has sold you.

Pittsburgh is cold and dirty, so their football team can be that way.

I'm not going to listen to it from you or anybody else. I'll 757690 you all day with this, you won't get the last word in.

dubc47834

01-11-2016, 09:58 AM

Give it up- it isn't working for you.

if he can hold two women down and force his ugly mug on them, he can take an empty Aquafina bottle to the helmet.

If he wants to get mad, get mad at his coaches for pulling people's hair.

I'm glad I don't teach my kids this line of thinking!!! Also, earlier in this thread I got a "cool it" from a mod for calling people "butt hurt", your last few post probably deserves the same. Trust me I can take it, I can dish out also. But it's against the rules in this forum, and generally I follow these rules because I like this place. Guess we'll see what happens!!!

Chip R

01-11-2016, 10:08 AM

Doesn't give the fans the right to break the law and throw stuff on the field. Boo and yell all the obscenities you want, but throwing stuff on the field is uncalled for. At least you have been civil on this...thanks!!!

It certainly doesn't help matters when you schedule the game at 8:30 pm and give the fans all day to booze up.

dubc47834

01-11-2016, 10:11 AM

It certainly doesn't help matters when you schedule the game at 8:30 pm and give the fans all day to booze up.

No it surely didn't help! But it's not an excuse. Hopefully it doesn't happen again!

jojo

01-11-2016, 10:25 AM

There's no "could" to Shazier's hit. It was a penalty. It SHOULD have been called. And if we're going to point out every instance where Burfict could have been penalized, how about Shazier DANCING AT MIDFIELD WHILE GIO BERNARD IS UNCONSCIOUS?????

Re-watch the Burfict interception. There's a whistle almost immediately. The "could have been a safety" talk is ridiculous. It's the same reason for saying Shazier could have had a touchdown is generally stupid - the whistle blew, so everyone stopped. However, I do agree that Burfict should have been flagged for celebrating.

I also agree that Burfict should know that everything he does is under the microscope and deservedly so. He's probably gotten three or four flags this year that the average player doesn't get, but that's the problem once you have a reputation. Therefore, I also agree his hit and behavior afterward was extremely stupid. It was also stupid for the Bengals not to immediately have everyone come to the sideline. It was asking for trouble. My guess is after they review what Burfict did, Porter did and Shazier's behavior, the league will require everyone to go to the sideline during an injury next year.

This thread is littered with complaints that things needed to be called consistently and these two hits have been used as a contrast suggesting that the game was called in Pittsburgh's favor. Here is the objective reality though. The first hit is almost never called because of the context of the game action in which it happened. Again, a subjective call true, but almost universally never called. Burfict's hit? It gets called almost every single time because, first, of the context of the hit relative to the game action and then second because of all of the obvious- it was the epitome of dirty, avoidable, and utterly nonsensical and most reasonable people could conclude it was done with malicious intent. Even if it wasn't, Burfict's reputation as an undrafted punk who upped his punkness as a pro makes it almost impossible to not entertain the notion he was just waiting for a chance.

But again, one play almost universally doesn't get flagged. The other is about as automatic as it gets. In terms of subjective officiating, it really doesn't get any more consistent than that.

Seriously, it's tough to defend the Bengals to those without a pony in the race around the water cooler this Monday morning.

Sea Ray

01-11-2016, 10:30 AM

The team didn't get to where they are now until after Tobin came on board? Dude, Lewis got Tobin hired one year after he started. Lewis was hired in 2003, Tobin came on the following season. Lewis eventually got Brown to let him be in charge of personnel. He uses Tobin's input, especially on college guys. But don't kid yourself, this is Lewis' show now. He's the guy making the calls in the draft room. This has been said flat out in many places.

Of the two, I think Tobin's the more important one. A head coach doesn't have much time for evaluating talent. He's got almost no time during the season, when both the NFL and colleges are playing. That's why I have to think that it's someone else evaluating these guys. That's what I've read too:

The Bengals have been long-criticized for their paltry front office and scouting department. However, there's one man that is receiving a lot of credit for the team's recent success for their draft hauls.

http://www.cincyjungle.com/2013/2/23/4021186/duke-tobins-big-role-with-the-bengals-front-office-and-the-nfl-draft-nfl-combine

Bob Sheed

01-11-2016, 10:31 AM

The refs not calling the game consistently and the announcers following suit is the real BS here.

I'm glad we have Taz and Jones on our squad. Otherwise, the Steeler nonsense would be allowed to continue, unabated. You know what the Steelers used to say about the Bengals? That they are a "paper tiger. Just punch them in the mouth once, and they will fold." I doubt they are saying that anymore.

Sea Ray

01-11-2016, 10:33 AM

Burficts play will probably be the dumbest thing a player does this playoffs. The Shazier play happens quite often, heck, will prolly happen again and not be called at some point.

But arguably, his penalty didn't put the Steelers into FG range. Adam Jones' did

jojo

01-11-2016, 10:35 AM

Dom Heffner

01-11-2016, 10:43 AM

This thread is littered with complaints that things needed to be called consistently and these two hits have been used as a contrast suggesting that the game was called in Pittsburgh's favor. Here is the objective reality though. The first hit is almost never called because of the context of the game action in which it happened. Again, a subjective call true, but almost universally never called. Burfict's hit? It gets called almost every single time because, first, of the context of the hit relative to the game action and then second because of all of the obvious- it was the epitome of dirty, avoidable, and utterly nonsensical and most reasonable people could conclude it was done with malicious intent. Even if it wasn't, Burfict's reputation as an undrafted punk who upped his punkness as a pro makes it almost impossible to not entertain the notion he was just waiting for a chance.

But again, one play almost universally doesn't get flagged. The other is about as automatic as it gets. In terms of subjective officiating, it really doesn't get any more consistent than that.

Seriously, it's tough to defend the Bengals to those without a pony in the race around the water cooler this Monday morning.

Oh for heaven's sake.

"Context of the game."

Good Lord it's getting deep.

dubc47834

01-11-2016, 10:49 AM

But arguably, his penalty didn't put the Steelers into FG range. Adam Jones' did

It did put them in FG range albeit a lot tougher one. I think it would have been around a 50 yarder. With todays kickers that's not a terribly hard FG, although the weather makes it harder.

alwaysawarrior

01-11-2016, 10:53 AM

This thread is littered with complaints that things needed to be called consistently and these two hits have been used as a contrast suggesting that the game was called in Pittsburgh's favor. Here is the objective reality though. The first hit is almost never called because of the context of the game action in which it happened. Again, a subjective call true, but almost universally never called. Burfict's hit? It gets called almost every single time because, first, of the context of the hit relative to the game action and then second because of all of the obvious- it was the epitome of dirty, avoidable, and utterly nonsensical and most reasonable people could conclude it was done with malicious intent. Even if it wasn't, Burfict's reputation as an undrafted punk who upped his punkness as a pro makes it almost impossible to not entertain the notion he was just waiting for a chance.

But again, one play almost universally doesn't get flagged. The other is about as automatic as it gets. In terms of subjective officiating, it really doesn't get any more consistent than that.

Seriously, it's tough to defend the Bengals to those without a pony in the race around the water cooler this Monday morning.

This literally may be the most ignorant argument I've heard from a steelers fan yet. Congratulations. There is no question the hit against Bernard was deserving a flag. None. Even you can't make the argument that it wasn't a deserving a flag, so you go with the "w/i the flow of the game" garbage. The NFL can not continue to spew bs about concussions and continue to let hits like that happen. My guess is Shazier is fined this week over it.

WrongVerb

01-11-2016, 10:57 AM

Seriously, it's tough to defend the Bengals to those without a pony in the race around the water cooler this Monday morning.

My experience has been just the opposite. Those I've chatted with who didn't have a rooting interest (including a professional sports bettor friend in LV -- who doesn't bet the NFL, btw) think the Bengals got jobbed by the refs calls.

I said it before: I think the team mentally checked out after Burfict's interception, and I think that's on Lewis. He's got to keep them focused and able to play the full 60 minutes. The Bengals nearly overcame all that was going against them there; they're really that good. But in the end the team lost because of mistakes on both sides of the ball.

Reds Freak

01-11-2016, 10:59 AM

Fines and 15-yard penalties aren't deterrents. If the NFL is serious about cleaning up what we saw Saturday night, it would institute some sort of college-style rule where officials can go to the monitor and start tossing people out of the game. The hits happen way too fast for officials to properly make those calls. Shazier, Munchak, Hill, and probably Peko are all ejected well before things started really going south. But in reality, as many have said, the NFL is built on this drama and nothing will happen.

It was embarrassing the way CBS kept showing replays of the Burfict sack and how Nantz/Simms/Carey were just dying to find something dirty in that hit. If Geno Atkins would have made that tackle, you wouldn't have heard a peep. Oh, and of course, the CBS crew calling Bengals and the fans disgraceful, etc. while not a word about Shazier dancing around like a fool while Gio lay unconscious on the turf.

wolfboy

01-11-2016, 10:59 AM

Oh for heaven's sake.

"Context of the game."

Good Lord it's getting deep.

I get it. Burfict nailed Brown on an a ball that sailed well over his head. But the notion that Shazier's hit was somehow an iffy call is utter and complete nonsense. He launched the crown of his helmet into Bernard's face mask. Don't believe me? Watch it again: https://cdn1.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/GBUZ8sEy9rrmvdzQLh_nGbIwuuo=/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/5890613/gio.0.gif. He lowers the helmet right before launching into Bernard. This is exactly what you're taught NOT to do (see: Pollack, David). Ever heard of heads up tackling? Could have 110% been avoided and it should be a penalty every time.

dubc47834

01-11-2016, 11:00 AM

This literally may be the most ignorant argument I've heard from a steelers fan yet. Congratulations. There is no question the hit against Bernard was deserving a flag. None. Even you can't make the argument that it wasn't a deserving a flag, so you go with the "w/i the flow of the game" garbage. The NFL can not continue to spew bs about concussions and continue to let hits like that happen. My guess is Shazier is fined this week over it.

Just heard this exact argument on Mike & Mike. Ryan Clark and Golic said that the Shazier play is very rarely called even tho it is in the rule book. Everyone agrees it shoulda been a penalty!

RiverRat13

01-11-2016, 11:02 AM

Oxilon

01-11-2016, 11:08 AM

wolfboy

01-11-2016, 11:08 AM

This literally may be the most ignorant argument I've heard from a steelers fan yet. Congratulations. There is no question the hit against Bernard was deserving a flag. None. Even you can't make the argument that it wasn't a deserving a flag, so you go with the "w/i the flow of the game" garbage. The NFL can not continue to spew bs about concussions and continue to let hits like that happen. My guess is Shazier is fined this week over it.

The whole discussion from Bengals fans has focused on the fact that penalties aren't equally enforced. Then all the "objective" non-fans chime in with a response of, "yeah, it deserved a flag, but it never gets called."
10236

dubc47834

01-11-2016, 11:08 AM

Well if it was on Mike and Mike...

Didn't say they are the end all be all...but if ex pro athlete's are saying that's the way it is, then I tend to go that way. Most that don't have your viewpoint agree it shouda been called based off the rules, but it very rarely is. I agree with another poster, the solution is to be able to review these hits.

Dom Heffner

01-11-2016, 11:15 AM

Netflix should make season two of "Making a Murderer" based off the Bengals. Incompetent officials significantly altering the outcome of a playoff game with biased commentary telling the masses' their incorrect "opinion" on rules. The media picks up on the end result, which of course is a Bengals' loss, and starts running with the same old talking points about how the Bengals can't win in prime-time and they're a dirty team. All the same, they're now praising the Steelers' for a "hard fought victory" and "withstanding the dirty play from the Bengals." The public eats it all up and the Bengals are now Steven Avery, sitting alone in a jail cell.

Their coach pulled our hair. Pulled our hair. And one stepped on the field to verbally assault our players.

And we're bad.

Mike Tomlin stepped on the field to affect a play a few years back and he's still taken seriously. He's awesome. An awesome piece of crap.

I'm tired of the bias towards them because they are the Pittsburgh Steelers.

RiverRat13

01-11-2016, 11:15 AM

Didn't say they are the end all be all...but if ex pro athlete's are saying that's the way it is, then I tend to go that way. Most that don't have your viewpoint agree it shouda been called based off the rules, but it very rarely is. I agree with another poster, the solution is to be able to review these hits.

How many crown of the helmet to the opposing player's helmet hits happen in a game? Once a game? Multiple times? Once a month? To say it is rarely called means nothing without knowing how often happens. My anecdotal observation is that any hit to the opposing team's helmet is scrutinized in every broadcast I've watched this year.

Dom Heffner

01-11-2016, 11:16 AM

How many crown of the helmet to the opposing player's helmet hits happen in a game? Once a game? Multiple times? Once a month? To say it is rarely called means nothing without knowing how often happens. My anecdotal observation is that any hit to the opposing team's helmet is scrutinized in every broadcast I've watched this year.

We never get it called when it happens to us.

wolfboy

01-11-2016, 11:22 AM

RedTeamGo!

01-11-2016, 11:23 AM

The Burfict play doesn't even happen if Shazier was flagged.

So really- the timing is bad on the official's part.

If Burfict had taken a step back and waited for another time to retaliate we would likely be talking about the Bengals first playoff victory in 25 years right now. Instead we are discussing a wasted opportunity and some are complaining about the Steelers getting away with murder. It kind of reminds me of OSU fans complaining about the SEC from 2005 - Jan 1, 2015.

RiverRat13

01-11-2016, 11:23 AM

Penalties aside, it shouldn't happen ever. Ask David Pollack what happens when leading with the crown of your helmet goes wrong.

Yep. Youth leaguers are taught "see what you hit."

KoryMac5

01-11-2016, 11:24 AM

The NFL can't say they are concerned about player safety and helmet to helmet hits if the other side of the narrative is "that play rarely gets called". If you truly want to clean the game up you have to put an emphasis on calling all helmet to helmet hits 15 yard penalties. The rarely gets called stuff needs to go away if it involves a player getting a TBI.

Dom Heffner

01-11-2016, 11:26 AM

If Burfict had taken a step back and waited for another time to retaliate we would likely be talking about the Bengals first playoff victory in 25 years right now. It was a dumb decision.

Sure, if you start at any random point in the game!

Why, if we would have picked off Ben and not dropped the ball we would have been up by 3 more....

bounty37h

01-11-2016, 11:26 AM

Week 1 will be the Sunday night or Monday night game against the Steelers, with Burfict suspended. Way the NFL rolls.

If it was my team, the season would open without him on my roster. He has been a hot head back to at least high school.

Crumbley

01-11-2016, 11:31 AM

Then Bengals built their identity around the criminally insane. And WHADDAYA KNOW, they melt down like idiots under the pressure. It isn't a conspiracy.

Oxilon

01-11-2016, 11:33 AM

If it was my team, the season would open without him on my roster. He has been a hot head back to at least high school.

If it weren't for Burfict, we also wouldn't be where were in the first place. He's our James Harrison circa 2006.

RedTeamGo!

01-11-2016, 11:34 AM

The only way the plays are different is through the lens of your subjective analysis on which play bothered you more. They're both subject to penalty, fines and suspension. Burfict will get all of those (he earned it); Shazier won't (and shouldn't), but it's telling that he didn't even get a flag. I mean, other than stripping the guy of his means of earning a living, what else do you want from Burfict - a personal apology that he diminished your viewing experience? A grand jury indictment? I mean, everybody gets that you are very upset about the Burfict hit and that you don't like him. Duly noted.

This post sucks. I think my post that you quoted was simply how I saw the two plays. Instead of responding you make it personal. I don't care what Burfict does, why would I want an apology? I simply said I would not want him on my team. I would much rather have the linebackers on the Panthers. Keuchly is feared in the NFL and it's not because he might lose his head at a moments notice and try to end your career.

wolfboy

01-11-2016, 11:35 AM

Then Bengals built their identity around the criminally insane. And WHADDAYA KNOW, they melt down like idiots under the pressure. It isn't a conspiracy.

Criminally insane Vontaze Burfict, who has never been arrested for anything.

Sea Ray

01-11-2016, 11:35 AM

It did put them in FG range albeit a lot tougher one. I think it would have been around a 50 yarder. With todays kickers that's not a terribly hard FG, although the weather makes it harder.

Agreed. My guess is the Steelers would have run another play to try to get it a little closer because of the weather. My speculation is also that they would have been successful and they still would have won.

The Burfict hit was stupid and deserved a penalty. The Adam Jones bit should have been off setting

RedTeamGo!

01-11-2016, 11:37 AM

Sure, if you start at any random point in the game!

Why, if we would have picked off Ben and not dropped the ball we would have been up by 3 more....

Random? If this hit happened in the 2nd quarter it wouldn't even be talked about. The bengals were literally seconds away from winning their first playoff game in decades and you, of all people, are defending the decision that gave the dreaded Steelers 15 free yards.

bounty37h

01-11-2016, 11:37 AM

This team, this city, these fans are simply not going to take it anymore.

We're not taking it from you, from Jim Nance, from Joey Porter, from the dirty awful organization that is the Pittsburgh Steelers.

Shut up.

We have to- year after year- listen to how "hard hitting" and goddamn wonderful the Steelers brand of physical football is.

It's mostly illegal, nobody does much.

At best you could call it legal but unnecessary.

Keith Gary. Hines Ward. Joey Porter. Keno Von $&@;face.

I could go on and on and on.

Their QB raped two women. Their head coach stepped on the field during a play. One coach pulled a guy's hair. One stepped onto the field and instigated a team but didn't get a flag. Nothing ever happens to them of consequence. Ever. They are the greatest team and hey, can we watch that dirty play by Burfict over and over Jim and Phil so we can keep the narrative going about how much of a victim the Steelers are? Ick.

Shazier.

And all we have to listen to, for perpetuity, apparently, is how wonderful they are and how everyone should sit there and shut up about it.

Sitting on your hands taking all this makes you a *****. It makes you a whimp. Being the better person sounds fine but when it gets more of this crap, it's sort of pointless.

I thank heavens for Vontaze Burfict because he got angry about that god awful excuse for a football team and put Roethlisberger on his ass and out the door. My only complaint is he didn't knock him out enough.

That play turned that game around and it's worked for Pittsburgh for decades so why can't it work for us?

Them: clean but unfortunate.

Us: dirty.

This city should throw things and make a stink and the players should retaliate because that's how you deal with a freaking bully. Especially when the NFL is like that stupid teacher who shows up to a fight and punishes the dude who hits back instead of the one who started it.

Letters to the editor are fine when it comes to parking issues and gerrymandering, not the Pittsburgh Steelers and the NFL.

Hmm, I read this and think "that's what a loser sounds like". It actually makes me wonder if this is how we sound to Cards fans if I stepped back and took a look? As far as "I thank heavens for Vontaze Burfict because he got angry about that god awful excuse for a football team and put Roethlisberger on his ass and out the door. My only complaint is he didn't knock him out enough." The only out the door that counts is he pushed his own team out the door almost single handed. If I was his "teammate" he would not have made it out of the locker-room after the game.

wolfboy

01-11-2016, 11:37 AM

Crumbley

01-11-2016, 11:46 AM

Criminally insane Vontaze Burfict, who has never been arrested for anything.

Why wasn't he drafted?

His brain doesn't work.

jojo

01-11-2016, 11:47 AM

Oh for heaven's sake.

"Context of the game."

Good Lord it's getting deep.

Ummmm, no it's not. The reality is that suddenly Bengals fans in this thread are evoking "letter of the law" arguments concerning a hit that NEVER gets flagged given the type of play that it was.

dubc47834

01-11-2016, 11:48 AM

This post sucks. I think my post that you quoted was simply how I saw the two plays. Instead of responding you make it personal. I don't care what Burfict does, why would I want an apology? I simply said I would not want him on my team. I would much rather have the linebackers on the Panthers. Keuchly is feared in the NFL and it's not because he might lose his head at a moments notice and try to end your career.

Bro, there are a few posters in this thread you cant have a civil chat with. I get it, I didn't get off to the best of starts with the butthurt comment, but it happened and I have been pretty civil since. Guess that means Im a troll. I guess having an opinion that doesn't go along their lines makes you a troll!

jojo

01-11-2016, 11:48 AM

This literally may be the most ignorant argument I've heard from a steelers fan yet. Congratulations. There is no question the hit against Bernard was deserving a flag. None. Even you can't make the argument that it wasn't a deserving a flag, so you go with the "w/i the flow of the game" garbage. The NFL can not continue to spew bs about concussions and continue to let hits like that happen. My guess is Shazier is fined this week over it.

Actually, the Bengals fan brand took a huge hit with this post.

RedTeamGo!

01-11-2016, 11:50 AM

Ummmm, no it's not. The reality is that suddenly Bengals fans in this thread are evoking "letter of the law" arguments concerning a hit that NEVER gets flagged given the type of play that it was.

I'm honestly amazed people cannot separate the two plays, in one the player had the ball and turned towards the defender. In the other the player did not have the ball, was mid-air, completely defenseless and did not turn toward the defender.

SteelSD

01-11-2016, 11:52 AM

Actually, the Bengals fan brand took a huge hit with this post.

Bro, that's nothing. You should have been here during the game. Go read those posts...

alwaysawarrior

01-11-2016, 11:52 AM

Hmm, I read this and think "that's what a loser sounds like". It actually makes me wonder if this is how we sound to Cards fans if I stepped back and took a look? As far as "I thank heavens for Vontaze Burfict because he got angry about that god awful excuse for a football team and put Roethlisberger on his ass and out the door. My only complaint is he didn't knock him out enough." The only out the door that counts is he pushed his own team out the door almost single handed. If I was his "teammate" he would not have made it out of the locker-room after the game.

I don't agree with some of the knock him out stuff posted but if i'm a teammate I won't Vontaze on my team everytime. People look at this in a vacuum to much. I wish Burfict hadn't tried to hit Brown like he did (I believe he meant to and it should have been flagged.) However he just moments earlier watched his teammate get knocked out cold by a dirty hit. And you can argue it all day that Shazier's hit wasn't dirty, but you would be wrong. You can actually see him adjust to hit him like he did. So the Bengals defense sees this and sees no flag. If I'm a teammates of Bernards I'm looking to lay someone out. I wish Burfict would have been smarter and attempted a legal hit, much like the sack on big Ben. Unfortunately he did not.

Crumbley

01-11-2016, 11:52 AM

The Cincinnati Bengals have kept a head coach around who has won zero playoff games in thirteen years.

Is this a part of the grand conspiracy?

wolfboy

01-11-2016, 11:54 AM

Why wasn't he drafted?

His brain doesn't work.

Okay. Noted. But to call the team "criminally insane" is either uninformed or just good old fashioned trolling.

alwaysawarrior

01-11-2016, 11:54 AM

Actually, the Bengals fan brand took a huge hit with this post.

haha glad I have so much sway on the Bengals fan brand, whatever that's supposed to be.

Bob Sheed

01-11-2016, 11:54 AM

Why wasn't he drafted?

His brain doesn't work.

Teams would be lining up at the door to sign Burfict if the Bengals released him.

The refs seemed to be giving the Bengals the choice of two narratives Saturday night:
a) Rise above the typical Steeler dirtiness and limp into New England minus Bernard of course.
or
b) Lose your cool and dish it back in spades.

After Hill fumbled the ball, Burfict and Jones clearly chose "b." Which is fine with me I guess. At that point, they either play soft while Ben dinks and dunks down to kick the winning FG, or they headhunt and send a very direct message to the Steelers and to the refs, and the NFL for that matter:

Bring that typical Steeler dirty play, and refs feel free to call a one-sided game, that's fine. But there will be consequences. There is no more paper tiger. Lead with the helmet, knock our player out, and then no call? Fine, but payback is a mother though... have fun limping into Denver.

wolfboy

01-11-2016, 11:57 AM

Ummmm, no it's not. The reality is that suddenly Bengals fans in this thread are evoking "letter of the law" arguments concerning a hit that NEVER gets flagged given the type of play that it was.

Pay attention, Sven. The entire discussion for about 15 pages has been equal enforcement of penalties (or lack thereof). Hitting with the crown of the helmet is a penalty. Period. End of story. The fact that it doesn't get called, but should, is the argument.

SirFelixCat

01-11-2016, 11:58 AM

RedTeamGo!

01-11-2016, 11:59 AM

Teams would be lining up at the door to sign Burfict if the Bengals released him.

The refs seemed to be giving the Bengals the choice of two narratives Saturday night:
a) Rise above the typical Steeler dirtiness and limp into New England minus Bernard of course.
or
b) Lose your cool and dish it back in spades.

After Hill fumbled the ball, Burfict and Jones clearly chose "b." Which is fine with me I guess. At that point, they either play soft while Ben dinks and dunks down to kick the winning FG, or they headhunt and send a very direct message to the Steelers and to the refs, and the NFL for that matter:

Bring that typical Steeler dirty play, and refs feel free to call a one-sided game, that's fine. But there will be consequences. There is no more paper tiger. Lead with the helmet, knock our player out, and then no call? Fine, but payback is a mother though... have fun limping into Denver.

The problem is Ben was not dinking and dunking down the field. The pass to Brown was terrible and the Steelers were nearly out of time.

KoryMac5

01-11-2016, 12:00 PM

Dom Heffner

01-11-2016, 12:01 PM

Then Bengals built their identity around the criminally insane. And WHADDAYA KNOW, they melt down like idiots under the pressure. It isn't a conspiracy.

Our white quarterback didn't rape anyone. Or two.

dubc47834

01-11-2016, 12:03 PM

Okay. Noted. But to call the team "criminally insane" is either uninformed or just good old fashioned trolling.

Is everyone who doesn't agree with you a troll?

Dom Heffner

01-11-2016, 12:03 PM

You really don't think Burfict's was dirty? At all?!?

If you don't call it both ways, what are we arguing about?

Again- you want the storyline. The gritty, tough tackling Steelers win!

Everyone else shut up and stop making excuses about the refs calling it one way but not another way.

They pulled someone's hair, dude.

Pulled their hair-

Their coach steps on the field of play. In years past and Sunday.

That's the sign of an organization that will do anything to win. <<<<<<Narrative

Bengals? Shut up and take your medicine, the NFL wants to make sure you are Susan Lucci.

The Operator

01-11-2016, 12:03 PM

Bob Sheed

01-11-2016, 12:07 PM

The problem is Ben was not dinking and dunking down the field. The pass to Brown was terrible and the Steelers were nearly out of time.

I agree. Burfict never should have laid him out. If you watch the replay, the WR Brown gets "alligator arms" and crouches down a bit, because he knows 55 is coming. Taz should have known this and played the ball instead of the man. But that's some real hindsight there. We are analyzing a split second decision (albeit a poor one) in a dirty game that the refs let get out of control by not flagging for the Bernard KO.

Burfict is 25. He could be our James Harrison for the next 5-7 years. And I hope he is. He's the first Bengals LB since as long as I can remember that gives the Steelers WRs alligator arms. I love it. The only thing better would be if it was Hines Ward laying on that turf seeing stars instead of Brown. Ask Kevin Huber or Keith Rivers or most recently Gio Bernard what they think about "honest hard nosed Steeler football."

Its the same old garbage NFL narrative in regard to the Steelers that either needs to be changed, or there will be a lot more like last Saturday.

Brutus

01-11-2016, 12:08 PM

Just heard this exact argument on Mike & Mike. Ryan Clark and Golic said that the Shazier play is very rarely called even tho it is in the rule book. Everyone agrees it shoulda been a penalty!

If they qualified the remarks to say that leading with the crown of the helmet against an opponent's torso is rarely called, I could see the argument. But leading with the crown of the helmet making contact into another player's helmet? In this day and age? I'm sorry but that's total baloney. That has been called repeatedly for the past 5-7 years without hesitation. You simply do not see, in this day and age of concussions, officials not calling helmet to helmet contact like that.

Which is why the no-call and the CBS no-care was all the more perplexing.

RedTeamGo!

01-11-2016, 12:11 PM

wolfboy

01-11-2016, 12:12 PM

I agree. Burfict never should have laid him out. If you watch the replay, the WR gets "alligator arms" and crouches down a bit, because he knows 55 is coming. Taz should have known this and played the ball instead of the man. But that's some real hindsight there. We are analyzing a split second decision (albeit a poor one) in a dirty game that the refs let get out of control by not flagging for the Bernard KO.

Burfict is 25. He could be our James Harrison for the next 5-7 years. And I hope he is. He's the first Bengals LB since as long as I can remember that gives the Steelers WRs alligator arms. I love it. The only thing better would be if it was Hines Ward laying on that turf seeing stars instead of Brown. Ask Kevin Huber or Keith Rivers what they think about "honest hard nosed Steeler football."

I agree. I won't defend Burfict's hit. But you know what? He got flagged, he'll get fined, he'll get suspended, which are the penalties in place for his actions. But I'm not going to make anything more out of it, despite the calls for his head from everyone outside of Cincinnati (and some in). He plays an extremely violent game in an extremely violent manner. He keeps that violence on the field. He's one of the more knowledgeable and studious players we have on defense. And when he steps out of line and goes too far, the league will deal with it - just like anyone else.

Dom Heffner

01-11-2016, 12:12 PM

Their white quarterback managed to keep his dick in his pants over the course of the entire game. Our two broken brains? Not so much.

Right.

But Shazier is fine and Porter is fine because the refs didn't call it.

The selective narrative.

alwaysawarrior

01-11-2016, 12:13 PM

If they qualified the remarks to say that leading with the crown of the helmet against an opponent's torso is rarely called, I could see the argument. But leading with the crown of the helmet making contact into another player's helmet? In this day and age? I'm sorry but that's total baloney. That has been called repeatedly for the past 5-7 years without hesitation. You simply do not see, in this day and age of concussions, officials not calling helmet to helmet contact like that.

Which is why the no-call and the CBS no-care was all the more perplexing.

It would be interesting to see if the narrative would have changed if Mike Carey wasn't a complete incompetent idiot. People tend to not to be able to think for themselves as proven a few times in this thread.

Dom Heffner

01-11-2016, 12:13 PM

I agree. I won't defend Burfict's hit. But you know what? He got flagged, he'll get fined, he'll get suspended, which are the penalties in place for his actions. But I'm not going to make anything more out of it, despite the calls for his head from everyone outside of Cincinnati (and some in). He plays an extremely violent game in an extremely violent manner. He keeps that violence on the field. He's one of the more knowledgeable and studious players we have on defense. And when he steps out of line and goes too far, the league will deal with it - just like anyone else.

You don't need to defend Burfict's hit.

It has nothing to do with Burfict.

The refs did not call penalties fairly.

If they missed the Burfict hit like they missed Shazier's, it's not an issue. Just ask everyone else.

WVRed

01-11-2016, 12:14 PM

This team, this city, these fans are simply not going to take it anymore.

We're not taking it from you, from Jim Nance, from Joey Porter, from the dirty awful organization that is the Pittsburgh Steelers.

Shut up.

We have to- year after year- listen to how "hard hitting" and goddamn wonderful the Steelers brand of physical football is.

It's mostly illegal, nobody does much.

At best you could call it legal but unnecessary.

Keith Gary. Hines Ward. Joey Porter. Keno Von $&@;face.

I could go on and on and on.

Their QB raped two women. Their head coach stepped on the field during a play. One coach pulled a guy's hair. One stepped onto the field and instigated a team but didn't get a flag. Nothing ever happens to them of consequence. Ever. They are the greatest team and hey, can we watch that dirty play by Burfict over and over Jim and Phil so we can keep the narrative going about how much of a victim the Steelers are? Ick.

Shazier.

And all we have to listen to, for perpetuity, apparently, is how wonderful they are and how everyone should sit there and shut up about it.

Sitting on your hands taking all this makes you a *****. It makes you a whimp. Being the better person sounds fine but when it gets more of this crap, it's sort of pointless.

I thank heavens for Vontaze Burfict because he got angry about that god awful excuse for a football team and put Roethlisberger on his ass and out the door. My only complaint is he didn't knock him out enough.

That play turned that game around and it's worked for Pittsburgh for decades so why can't it work for us?

Them: clean but unfortunate.

Us: dirty.

This city should throw things and make a stink and the players should retaliate because that's how you deal with a freaking bully. Especially when the NFL is like that stupid teacher who shows up to a fight and punishes the dude who hits back instead of the one who started it.

Letters to the editor are fine when it comes to parking issues and gerrymandering, not the Pittsburgh Steelers and the NFL.

Thank you for putting that into words that I could never type.

I feel so much better after this game compared to ten years ago. That team rolled over and quit. This one might have done something stupid, but it sent a message to the rest of the league. We're not going to take it.

alwaysawarrior

01-11-2016, 12:15 PM

http://deadspin.com/vontaze-burfict-is-so-dirty-1752214229?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitte r&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

I am not posting this for the article, but for the video of Burfict using his knee to ram the shoulder of Ben on the ground. I thought the narrative was that it was just a tackle? Roethlesberger is clearly on the ground and tackled and THEN Burfict knees him in the shoulder? Wow.

This again is a steelers fan posturing. Vontaze is fighting for the ball there. That wasn't a dirty play. Come on you don't have to look to hard to find a Burfict dirty play. Really no reason to make things up.

RedTeamGo!

01-11-2016, 12:19 PM

This again is a steelers fan posturing. Vontaze is fighting for the ball there. That wasn't a dirty play. Come on you don't have to look to hard to find a Burfict dirty play. Really no reason to make things up.

I didn't make anything up and I am no Steelers fan.

Seems pretty clear to me Burfict deliberately kneed him in the shoulder and his reputation supports it. He moves his knee in line with the shoulder and rams his shoulder.

RedEye

01-11-2016, 12:19 PM

I feel so much better after this game compared to ten years ago.

Seriously? I feel far, far worse. I would have been much more satisfied with a nice 15-0 shutout in the rain with a backup QB. Losing this way was just devastating.

Dom Heffner

01-11-2016, 12:21 PM

If they qualified the remarks to say that leading with the crown of the helmet against an opponent's torso is rarely called, I could see the argument. But leading with the crown of the helmet making contact into another player's helmet? In this day and age? I'm sorry but that's total baloney. That has been called repeatedly for the past 5-7 years without hesitation. You simply do not see, in this day and age of concussions, officials not calling helmet to helmet contact like that.

Which is why the no-call and the CBS no-care was all the more perplexing.

No, no, no, you can lead with your helmet once he becomes a runner. Just lower your head and spear right through, baby!

HAHAHAHAHHA!

CBS loves the Steelers, as do the referees and the NFL and anyone else who enjoys the narrative.

The Pittsburgh Steeler fairy tale. Dirty, hard working city produces dirty hard working football team. But if you try it, hey, 15 yards.

gonelong

01-11-2016, 12:21 PM

The Steelers have epitomized dirty play and cheap shots for 30+ years, often at the Bengals expense. If I'm the Bengals I'd put 3 Burficts on the field against PIT if they could and I'd be looking for more.

Burfict is a reflection of the Steelers, and they don't like looking in the mirror.

GL

jojo

01-11-2016, 12:24 PM

Pay attention, Sven. The entire discussion for about 15 pages has been equal enforcement of penalties (or lack thereof). Hitting with the crown of the helmet is a penalty. Period. End of story. The fact that it doesn't get called, but should, is the argument.

The last fifteen pages then have been a huge metacommentary on balls and strikes.

- - - Updated - - -

The Steelers have epitomized dirty play and cheap shots for 30+ years, often at the Bengals expense. If I'm the Bengals I'd put 3 Burficts on the field against PIT if they could and I'd be looking for more.

Burfict is a reflection of the Steelers, and they don't like looking in the mirror.

GL

That's great and all but the Bengals season is over.

Crumbley

01-11-2016, 12:25 PM

That's great and all but the Bengals season is over.

3 Burficts, 0 wins.

Dom Heffner

01-11-2016, 12:27 PM

I didn't make anything up and I am no Steelers fan.

Seems pretty clear to me Burfict deliberately kneed him in the shoulder and his reputation supports it. He moves his knee in line with the shoulder and rams his shoulder.

Dude- nobody cares about Burfict.

We want the penalties called equally.

Get that and come back to us. We'll talk.

Their coach stepped on the field- no flag.

OUr guy says something back to him, flag!

Are you suggesting to us that personal responsibility is the correct philosophy but it only applies to the Bengals?

Here's some personal responsibility for you: the refs should be personally responsible for calling the game right.

If you want to give them the "They are only human" excuse, then well, gosh, Burfict is only human! He doesn't like the refs calling plays one way so he gets mad about it.

There!

- - - Updated - - -

3 Burficts, 0 wins.

Wow, you really got us on that one.

Bob Sheed

01-11-2016, 12:27 PM

Seriously? I feel far, far worse. I would have been much more satisfied with a nice 15-0 shutout in the rain with a backup QB. Losing this way was just devastating.

The game was ours until Hill put the ball on the ground.

Now think about this. Hill has a history of this, so it normally would have been the much more sure-handed Bernard in there. Of course he wasn't in there. He got KO'd on a crown of the helmet-to-chin no-call, so he was out of the game.

It will cost Taz a few games, but it's worth it in my opinion because it sends a message to not just the Steelers and the refs, but to Goodell as well. The baloney Steeler narrative perpetuated from the NFL will no longer be tolerated in Cincinnati.

gonelong

01-11-2016, 12:27 PM

That's great and all but the Bengals season is over.

Try to keep up.

jojo

01-11-2016, 12:28 PM

"Context... flow of the game... rarely called.."

Some people really will buy a narrative hook, line and sinker.

https://cdn3.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/I4GgZmSr1zQSNWWDrV1dA4-4pWQ=/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/5890619/gio2.0.gif

https://cdn1.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/GBUZ8sEy9rrmvdzQLh_nGbIwuuo=/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/5890613/gio.0.gif

Actually this is a case of fans seeing what they want to see and it's not consistent with what refs see. But Bengals fans have the letter of the law and their eyeballs so we're about 50 posts from this thread being mercifully killed and hopefully buried so deep in the archives that it's at best the dimmest of memories.

Dom Heffner

01-11-2016, 12:28 PM

The last fifteen pages then have been a huge metacommentary on balls and strikes.

- - - Updated - - -

That's great and all but the Bengals season is over.

Who do you root for, Alabama? It's going to come your way one day, brutha, we;ll see how you do.

You're known for letting things go, we'll see how you do.

wolfboy

01-11-2016, 12:28 PM

The last fifteen pages then have been a huge metacommentary on balls and strikes.

- - - Updated - - -

That's great and all but the Bengals season is over.

No, that's been your narrative - what is subjectively passable for jojo. Everyone else is asking why a clear penalty wasn't called.

RedTeamGo!

01-11-2016, 12:30 PM

Dude- nobody cares about Burfict.

We want the penalties called equally.

Get that and come back to us. We'll talk.

Their coach stepped on the field- no flag.

OUr guy says something back to him, flag!

Are you suggesting to us that personal responsibility is the correct philosophy but it only applies to the Bengals?

Here's some personal responsibility for you: the refs should be personally responsible for calling the game right.

If you want to give them the "They are only human" excuse, then well, gosh, Burfict is only human! He doesn't like the refs calling plays one way so he gets mad about it.

There!

- - - Updated - - -

Wow, you really got us on that one.

I agree the Steelers get a lot of calls. The reason I am frustrated because even with that true, the Bengals had them beat. All they had to do was play defense and they would have probably won. Instead Burfict chose the wrong time to retaliate and the rest is history. If I am a Bengal I can only control my actions and to that point in the game "my actions" had us in the lead with seconds on the clock. The Steelers and Joey Porter got in their head and as a result won the game.

jojo

01-11-2016, 12:31 PM

Who do you root for, Alabama? It's going to come your way one day, brutha, we;ll see how you do.

You're known for letting things go, we'll see how you do.

Dom, that's puzzling and you're certainly not making a relevant point even if it were coherent.

Dom Heffner

01-11-2016, 12:33 PM

No, that's been your narrative - what is subjectively passable for jojo. Everyone else is asking why a clear penalty wasn't called.

Right!

Shut up about unfairness! If the refs miss a head down helmet hit, so what? Burfict is dirty!

Oh your team doesn't like it when the coach is illegally on the field and you're the only one who draws the penalty? You're a baby, Hey, you should rise above 30 free yards and a fumble that shouldn't have happened.

Shazier knocked a man unconscious with his helmet and the referees not only didn't call it, they took the ball away from us when he dropped it from going to sleep for 5 minutes.

Oh hey, but rise up, like the Steelers do!

Only, they don't rise up, they get free turnovers and free yards!

When you hear someone say "You have to learn to win in spite of the refs" you know that person doesn't have a brain between their ears.

That would be like me robbing you of 5 million dollars on your 80th birthday and telling you to man up and get back to work. Rise above!

Dear God, the people in this country are stupid.

jojo

01-11-2016, 12:34 PM

No, that's been your narrative - what is subjectively passable for jojo. Everyone else is asking why a clear penalty wasn't called.

Because it's a judgement call that is never called in the context of that hit? Maybe that's why? I know that those who have disagreed with the notion that there is some injustice here have been accused of knowing nothing about football, but truthfully, maybe if some weren't "so smart", the reality of the play would've negated the need to pretend the question is a profound one.

Brutus

01-11-2016, 12:34 PM

Then Bengals built their identity around the criminally insane. And WHADDAYA KNOW, they melt down like idiots under the pressure. It isn't a conspiracy.

Let's review here. The Steelers devised a gameplan that apparently was meant to:

* Have coaches yank opposing players' hair on the sidelines
* Headhunt
* Low Blows
* Initiate verbal confrontations on the field, on the sidelines and in the huddles
* Have coaches shove players anytime they make a tackle on the sidelines
* Verbally bait at every opportunity
* And, apparently, send a coach onto the field illegally and into the opposing huddle to bait the Bengals... and reward said coach with a game ball for a job well done

And in your mind, the Bengals responding to this series of trolling by the Steelers is somehow a reflection of their wilting under pressure?

The world saw this game for what it was: Pittsburgh doing everything they can illegally to gain an edge. And while they were flagged for some of these things, so many of their obvious bullying attempts got through the cracks. But in the most critical juncture of the game, they were allowed to become aggressors and initiate conflict, and the Bengals weren't allowed to retaliate.

I'm not terribly old, but I'm old enough to say honestly I've never witnessed a football game where one team was so clearly making it their gameplan to create conflict. That's why this game should make every "impartial" football fan sick. The NFL just rewarded it and yet some fans are trying to say this is a problem with the Bengals?

Dom Heffner

01-11-2016, 12:35 PM

Dom, that's puzzling and you're certainly not making a relevant point even if it were coherent.

Ah, Jojo is back. Attack not the point, make it about something else. We can look forward to 45 more pages of not letting it go from the guy who wants everyone to let it go.

Maybe you should rise above my posts and let it go. Be the bigger person!

When Jojo doesn't understand something, someone is being incoherent.

He's like the Steelers. They are right and you are wrong.

alwaysawarrior

01-11-2016, 12:35 PM

Actually this is a case of fans seeing what they want to see and it's not consistent with what refs see. But Bengals fans have the letter of the law and their eyeballs so we're about 50 posts from this thread being mercifully killed and hopefully buried so deep in the archives that it's at best the dimmest of memories.

If you honestly believe that the lb does not lead with the crown of his helmet (into the helmet of another no less) then you are either to blind to see, to ignorant to understand, trolling, or all of the above. This isn't arguing judgement this is undoubtedly a penalty.

Bob Sheed

01-11-2016, 12:35 PM

Dom, that's puzzling and you're certainly not making a relevant point even if it were coherent.

1.Here's a relevant point for the Steelers:
Take out one of ours, we'll take out two of yours.

2.Here's a relevant point for the refs:
Call a fair game, or it's going to get ugly.

3.And here's one for the NFL:
Knock off that "Gritty Steelers get a free pass" narrative, or see #2.

I'll take 2 more #55's please. And so would 31 other NFL teams.

RedTeamGo!

01-11-2016, 12:36 PM

Right!

Shut up about unfairness! If the refs miss a head down helmet hit, so what? Burfict is dirty!

Oh your team doesn't like it when the coach is illegally on the field and you're the only one who draws the penalty? You're a baby, Hey, you should b rise about 30 free yards and a fumble that shouldn't have happend.

Shazier knocked a man unconscious with his helmet and the referees not only didn't call it, they took the ball away from us when he dropped it form going to sleep for 5 minutes.

Oh hey, but rise up, like the Steelers do!

Only, they don't rise up, they get free turnovers and free yards!

When you hear someone say "You have to learn to win in spite of the refs" you know that person doesn't have a brain between their ears.

That would be like me robbing you of 5 million dollars on your 80th birthday and telling you to man up and get back to work. Rise above!

Dear God, the people in this country are stupid.

A little early to be drinking whiskey, isn't it, Dom?

I never said win in spite of the refs, I have said multiple times Burfct chose a very poor time to retaliate. Even early in the 4th quarter would have been a better time. The calling posters stupid for having a different opinion on a football game than you is about as stupid as it gets.

jojo

01-11-2016, 12:38 PM

I agree the Steelers get a lot of calls. The reason I am frustrated because even with that true, the Bengals had them beat. All they had to do was play defense and they would have probably won. Instead Burfict chose the wrong time to retaliate and the rest is history. If I am a Bengal I can only control my actions and to that point in the game "my actions" had us in the lead with seconds on the clock. The Steelers and Joey Porter got in their head and as a result won the game.

All the Bengals had to do was not fumble the football. Once that happened, the consequences of the Bengals sins came to bare as it placed them in a position to have to rely upon Burfict to be something that he is not.

Dom Heffner

01-11-2016, 12:39 PM

I agree the Steelers get a lot of calls. The reason I am frustrated because even with that true, the Bengals had them beat. All they had to do was play defense and they would have probably won. Instead Burfict chose the wrong time to retaliate and the rest is history. If I am a Bengal I can only control my actions and to that point in the game "my actions" had us in the lead with seconds on the clock. The Steelers and Joey Porter got in their head and as a result won the game.

I know. You want them to overcome 30 free yards with :20 seconds left.

jojo

01-11-2016, 12:40 PM

1.Here's a relevant point for the Steelers:
Take out one of ours, we'll take out two of yours.

2.Here's a relevant point for the refs:
Call a fair game, or it's going to get ugly.

3.And here's one for the NFL:
Knock off that "Gritty Steelers get a free pass" narrative, or see #2.

I'll take 2 more #55's please. And so would 31 other NFL teams.

This is probably one of the most despicable posts ever made on redszone IMHO.

Dom Heffner

01-11-2016, 12:40 PM

All the Bengals had to do was not fumble the football. Once that happened, the consequences of the Bengals sins came to bare as it placed them in a position to have to rely upon Burfict to be something that he is not.

Yes, you get to pick one random play and ignore everything else.

Right.

All the refs had to do was call the game right.

Bob Sheed

01-11-2016, 12:41 PM

The more the dust settles, I think everything after the Hill fumble happened as it should.

If 55 pulls up and the Bengals somehow come away with the W, they still have to limp into NE without a healthy Dalton, and of course, without Bernard.

At first glance, the message seems to be that 55 lost his cool. If the refs try that same one-sided game nonsense, I hope he loses his cool again. Like I said, the only way it would have been better is if it was Hines Ward laid out instead of Brown.

757690

01-11-2016, 12:42 PM

Hmm, I read this and think "that's what a loser sounds like". It actually makes me wonder if this is how we sound to Cards fans if I stepped back and took a look? As far as "I thank heavens for Vontaze Burfict because he got angry about that god awful excuse for a football team and put Roethlisberger on his ass and out the door. My only complaint is he didn't knock him out enough." The only out the door that counts is he pushed his own team out the door almost single handed. If I was his "teammate" he would not have made it out of the locker-room after the game.

Have you ever been ripped off by a con artist? Been lied to by an authority figure? Have you ever been sold a bill of goods? Have you ever paid for something, only to find out once you use it, that's it's not what you paid for and is broken, and not returnable?

The post your quoted sounds exactly like someone venting after something like that happening. It doesn't sound like a loser making excuses, it sounds like a person frustrated and angry for being lied to and ripped off, but for years and years and nobody even admitting that there is a problem.

jojo

01-11-2016, 12:42 PM

Yes, you get to pick one random play and ignore everything else.

Right.

All the refs had to do was call the game right.

You couldn't get much more consistent with expectations than the way the refs called those two hits. The Bengals didn't lose because the refs called the game "wrong".

Dom Heffner

01-11-2016, 12:42 PM

This is probably one of the most despicable posts ever made on redszone IMHO.

What you should find despicable is the way the NFL has let the Steelers play this way for years.

Because Bob's post and my post and everyone else here are not the type of people that wish ill will on people unprovoked.

But yeah- kick me in the crotch enough, and I'm not Jimmy Carter anymore, okay?

RedTeamGo!

01-11-2016, 12:42 PM

I know. You want them to overcome 30 free yards with :20 seconds left.

I wanted the bengals to not GIVE the steelers 30 yards. I can't believe you wanted them to.

dubc47834

01-11-2016, 12:43 PM

Let's review here. The Steelers devised a gameplan that apparently was meant to:

* Have coaches yank opposing players' hair on the sidelines
* Headhunt
* Low Blows
* Initiate verbal confrontations on the field, on the sidelines and in the huddles
* Have coaches shove players anytime they make a tackle on the sidelines
* Verbally bait at every opportunity
* And, apparently, send a coach onto the field illegally and into the opposing huddle to bait the Bengals... and reward said coach with a game ball for a job well done

And in your mind, the Bengals responding to this series of trolling by the Steelers is somehow a reflection of their wilting under pressure?

The world saw this game for what it was: Pittsburgh doing everything they can illegally to gain an edge. And while they were flagged for some of these things, so many of their obvious bullying attempts got through the cracks. But in the most critical juncture of the game, they were allowed to become aggressors and initiate conflict, and the Bengals weren't allowed to retaliate.

I'm not terribly old, but I'm old enough to say honestly I've never witnessed a football game where one team was so clearly making it their gameplan to create conflict. That's why this game should make every "impartial" football fan sick. The NFL just rewarded it and yet some fans are trying to say this is a problem with the Bengals?

And the Bengals fell for it...hook, line, and sinker. That's gotta be frustrating!!!

RedTeamGo!

01-11-2016, 12:44 PM

Bob Sheed

01-11-2016, 12:45 PM

This is probably one of the most despicable posts ever made on redszone IMHO.

Cincinnati Bengals: "Bring the dirty? Then we'll bring the dirty dirty."

Fine with me, until the NFL decides to remove the halo from the Steeler uniforms.

You can't even count on two hands how many dirty play w/ no call the Steelers have leveled upon the Bengals through the years. It either ends this season, or payback is a mother...

jojo

01-11-2016, 12:46 PM

And the Bengals fell for it...hook, line, and sinker. That's gotta be frustrating!!!

What's hilarious is the assertion that the world saw the game for what it was and it somehow reflected poorly on the Steelers and well for the Bengals.

This game was a huge hit to the Bengals' brand. The national narrative is that they are stupid thugs.

alwaysawarrior

01-11-2016, 12:47 PM

You couldn't get much more consistent with expectations than the way the refs called those two hits. The Bengals didn't lose because the refs called the game "wrong".

You are extremely dense or a troll.

Dom Heffner

01-11-2016, 12:47 PM

You couldn't get much more consistent with expectations than the way the refs called those two hits. The Bengals didn't lose because the refs called the game "wrong".

Right, so being human only applies to referees.

All of us need to behave, the Bengals need to behave, and deal with the fact that the refs don't need to behave because nobody is perfect.

Do you sort of see why you don't make sense?

The fact that the Steelers get away with crap for years and everybody else gets penalties for reacting to it- sorry, dude, I'm not going to take it lying down, and neither should the Bengals.

If Ben Roethlisberger gets a bottle thrown at him for his team's behavior, my advice to Ben would be to get your team under control.

Don't pull hair, let your coach get on the field and run his mouth.

Bengals fans don't toss stuff at Tom Brady. They are tired of this team and their antics. And they are tired of the NFL not doing anything about it.

Being the better person is standing up for yourself, not being Phil Drummond.

Bob Sheed

01-11-2016, 12:48 PM

I get the hate for Ward, he was a dirtbag, but do people just hate Brown because of how good he is?

I don't see any hate for Brown. Not from me anyway.

I'd prefer that 55 laid out Shazier instead, but that's not how it works unfortunately.

Dom Heffner

01-11-2016, 12:49 PM

I get the hate for Ward, he was a dirtbag, but do people just hate Brown because of how good he is?

Tell NBC that. Tell the NFL that. They market him with children.

It gets old, dude. Guy's an ass, and he comes from the organization that produces them more than Hershey makes chocolate.

Bob Sheed

01-11-2016, 12:52 PM

What's hilarious is the assertion that the world saw the game for what it was and it somehow reflected poorly on the Steelers and well for the Bengals.

This game was a huge hit to the Bengals' brand. The national narrative is that they are stupid thugs.

And before that, it was "they choke in prime time." And before that, "they are paper tigers." And before that? Thugs again, I think. But no matter how many cheap shots come from the Steelers, it's never dirty with them. "Hard-nosed smash mouth football, I tell ya."

It's garbage, and I'll take a whole defense full of Burficts and Jones's until the double standard is no longer perpetuated from the top of the NFL on down.

jojo

01-11-2016, 12:54 PM

Right, so being human only applies to referees.

All of us need to behave, the Bengals need to behave, and deal with the fact that the refs don't need to behave because nobody is perfect.

Do you sort of see why you don't make sense?

The fact that the Steelers get away with crap for years and everybody else gets penalties for reacting to it- sorry, dude, I'm not going to take it lying down, and neither should the Bengals.

If Ben Roethlisberger gets a bottle thrown at him for his team's behavior, my advice to Ben would be to get your team under control.

Don't pull hair, let your coach get on the field and run his mouth.

Bengals fans don't toss stuff at Tom Brady. They are tired of this team and their antics. And they are tired of the NFL not doing anything about it.

Being the better person is standing up for yourself, not being Phil Drummond.

Actually, Dom, all I can see is that this post doesn't make much sense.

- - - Updated - - -

You are extremely dense or a troll.

Actually, your behavior is very poor. Stop it.

jojo

01-11-2016, 12:55 PM

Tell NBC that. Tell the NFL that. They market him with children.

It gets old, dude. Guy's an ass, and he comes from the organization that produces them more than Hershey makes chocolate.

You're really arguing that a tv network gives a rip about who wins that playoff game?

Redsfaithful

01-11-2016, 12:57 PM

Cincinnati Bengals: "Bring the dirty? Then we'll bring the dirty dirty."

Fine with me, until the NFL decides to remove the halo from the Steeler uniforms.

You can't even count on two hands how many dirty play w/ no call the Steelers have leveled upon the Bengals through the years. It either ends this season, or payback is a mother...

Thank you. And thank you to Dom.

Here's my order of preference:

1. Clean games vs. the Steelers. Not going to happen, because the Steelers are dirty and have problems against almost every team they play. The idiotic posting by "impartial" fans in this thread if I'm being charitable, is because they have no idea the history here.

2. Vontaze Burfict out there killing guys.

3. The Steelers being the Steelers and the Bengals just taking it, which is what has happened for the last 10 years.

We aren't going to get #1 folks. Those of you who are fans of other teams and don't watch AFC North football all year don't get it. Ask GAC or any Browns fan, I bet they would tell you.

The Bengals have a hot rivalry with the Ravens, and yet you don't see this crap against them.

But you do when the Steelers play the Ravens. There's a common denominator here.

Could you imagine if the Bengals had a QB that had raped two women what the media narrative would be? God, it gets so old. I honestly hope the Bengals just headhunt against the Steelers next year constantly. They would have to do it for years before they would come close to making it even.

WrongVerb

01-11-2016, 12:57 PM

I'm honestly amazed people cannot separate the two plays, in one the player had the ball and turned towards the defender. In the other the player did not have the ball, was mid-air, completely defenseless and did not turn toward the defender.

Yes, and the runner with the ball was hit with the crown of the defender's helmet while the defenseless receiver was hit in the head with shoulder/arm. Neither should have happened. Both deserved flags.

Bob Sheed

01-11-2016, 12:57 PM

Actually, Dom, all I can see is that this post doesn't make much sense.

You may have reading comprehension issues then. Because it seems crystal clear to me.

No more paper tiger. No more "overcoming" the Steeler bias and no-calls.

Either call a fair game, or there are going to be a lot of concussion protocols and suspensions until they do. Fine with me.

The Operator

01-11-2016, 12:58 PM

You're really arguing that a tv network gives a rip about who wins that playoff game?
You're arguing that a TV network *doesn't* have an interest in selling a narrative? I suppose you must think Fox News really is fair and balanced then, right?

jojo

01-11-2016, 12:59 PM

And before that, it was "they choke in prime time." And before that, "they are paper tigers." And before that? Thugs again, I think. But no matter how many cheap shots come from the Steelers, it's never dirty with them. "Hard-nosed smash mouth football, I tell ya."

It's garbage, and I'll take a whole defense full of Burficts and Jones's until the double standard is no longer perpetuated from the top of the NFL on down.

Or the Bengals could be just a little more introspective about the thing and ask themselves, "since this thing clearly hasn't worked for like 25 years, what could we do differently than what we're doing that might result in winning a playoff game or two?"

Bob Sheed

01-11-2016, 12:59 PM

You're really arguing that a tv network gives a rip about who wins that playoff game?

What baseball teams do ESPN show disproportionately? Why do you suppose they do this?

Answer your own question.

jojo

01-11-2016, 01:00 PM

You're arguing that a TV network *doesn't* have an interest in selling a narrative? I suppose you must think Fox News really is fair and balanced then, right?

I'm arguing that the fix was not in and any network covering the game would've had the same narrative. It was the easy, obvious one.

Dom Heffner

01-11-2016, 01:00 PM

I know, Jojo.

You want to make this about being a sore loser.

A sore loser is when you lose fair and square and you complain.

A sore loser is not when the refs call it one way for one team but not the other.

What you are arguing is sort of like saying that I should pay for a booger on my plate at a restaurant because I should have chosen a different restaurant. Or that these things happen.

We understand the tired story of overcoming referee mistakes. It's a fun thing to say to someone when you don't have the words for anything else. We get it. You don't have an argument. So you can just say "Rise above!"

We'll remember this when you point out unfairness somewhere else. We'll tell you to follow the model of the Pittsburgh Steelers, which is to just pull yourself up by your boot straps and get over it.

dubc47834

01-11-2016, 01:00 PM

And before that, it was "they choke in prime time." And before that, "they are paper tigers." And before that? Thugs again, I think. But no matter how many cheap shots come from the Steelers, it's never dirty with them. "Hard-nosed smash mouth football, I tell ya."

It's garbage, and I'll take a whole defense full of Burficts and Jones's until the double standard is no longer perpetuated from the top of the NFL on down.

From the outside looking in on this. In years past the Steelers have had a rep as being dirty with James Harrison, and to a lesser extent Hines Ward. Although Ward wasn't necessarily thought of as dirty, but pushing the boundaries of clean/dirty.