Bengals-Steelers 2016 Playoff Thread Part 2

[dabvu2498]

I have one Zombie Dust left. Darn you guys for making me want it!

[RedTeamGo!]

Convenient that you live in the best IPA city east of the Mississippi... White Rajah... Mmmmmm.

Haha, convenient indeed. White rajah is phenomenal. I also love hoppin frog and thirsty dog breweries.

Surprisingly I'm not a big Great Lakes guy. Burning River is OK.

[dabvu2498]

Haha, convenient indeed. White rajah is phenomenal. I also love hoppin frog and thirsty dog breweries.

Surprisingly I'm not a big Great Lakes guy. Burning River is OK.

Fat Heads is actually probably the best of the IPA bunch, I guess. But I had such a good experience at TBK, that I'm partial. I'm with you on GLBC. Their Porter is nice. And speaking of porters, if you ever travel down this way, I'd love to work out a deal/trade for some of the Willoughby porter. It's pretty much the greatest thing ever.

[RedTeamGo!]

I will keep that in mind

Fat head headhunter is amazing

[westofyou]

I pretty much only drink IPA.

Tonight I'm drinking Uinta Brewing Hop Nosh IPA.

One of my favorites.

I'm all IPA, favor the local pub grapefruit infused IPA, about 6.2 (Lompac), in fact tonight is miser Monday at the pub, $2.50 pints.

Beer is amazing here, it's kind of out of control

[wolfboy]

When he did that, did he at least get my name right?

No. But I think he nominated you for a Grammy.

[RedTeamGo!]

I'm all IPA, favor the local pub grapefruit infused IPA, about 6.2 (Lompac), in fact tonight is miser Monday at the pub, $2.50 pints.

Beer is amazing here, it's kind of out of control

Out of control beer = paradise

[Redhook]

Redhook, are you aware there is a Redhook Brewery?

Yes, my Redszone parents loved that place and named me after it.

[Redhook]

I'm all IPA, favor the local pub grapefruit infused IPA, about 6.2 (Lompac), in fact tonight is miser Monday at the pub, $2.50 pints.

Beer is amazing here, it's kind of out of control

Miser Monday. That's great.

Denver is probably about the same. You can't go a block without stumbling into a delicious brewery. A place called Living the Dream is my favorite. They've been open for a year and a half. They're about to expand and start bottling their beers. They're IPA is as good as it gets.

[wolfboy]

Miser Monday. That's great.

Denver is probably about the same. You can't go a block without stumbling into a delicious brewery. A place called Living the Dream is my favorite. They've been open for a year and a half. They're about to expand and start bottling their beers. They're IPA is as good as it gets.

I went to the Bengals game in Denver and just couldn't get the brewery thing to work. In fairness, flew in on Sunday and by the time I could even think about going anywhere the breweries were closed; worked on Monday and went to the game Monday night; flew out Tuesday morning. I was bummed about it though.

[Redhook]

After 1250+ posts about the game, it's nice to see we can all agree on something.

[Kingspoint]

As a gesture of friendship and to break the ice, I gave my neighbor (a Steeler fan and a very, very good person...unlike most Steeler fans I've met) a 12-pack of Widmer IPA Variety pack, and gave him a "Congratulations!". Can't let the game ruin a friendship with a good neighbor.

[jojo]

As a gesture of friendship and to break the ice, I gave my neighbor (a Steeler fan and a very, very good person...unlike most Steeler fans I've met) a 12-pack of Widmer IPA Variety pack, and gave him a "Congratulations!". Can't let the game ruin a friendship with a good neighbor.

Quit trolling the thread.

[wolfboy]

Quit trolling the thread.

Roll Tide (my sources tell me you're a 'Bama fan).

[BluegrassRedleg]

Fine, let's address the term "pushed the limits".

If you think "push the limits" is all Hines Ward did, you clearly didn't see him play very much. All you're going on is what those ex athlete commentators who you trust so much tell you.

Can you cite specific examples and/or provide video links to anything other than the Rivers play, which, IIRC, was a legal play at the time? I don't recall them. Ward was a pain in the Bengals' ass, for sure, but you seem to be going overboard here.

[The Operator]

Can you cite specific examples and/or provide video links to anything other than the Rivers play, which, IIRC, was a legal play at the time? I don't recall them. Ward was a pain in the Bengals' ass, for sure, but you seem to be going overboard here.It's late (or technically early I guess - hooray for working night shift!) and my sleep schedule is all screwed up, so it'll have to wait or maybe one of the other guys can drop in and help me out. But until I get some time to put together the info, YES, he was known for being drty and it was an every game thing.

He was voted dirtiest player in the league multiple times - a wide receiver, the dirtiest player in the league! The NFL even made a rule because of him, which of course he ignored.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/09/24/hines-ward-has-no-plans-to-comply-with-the-rule-named-for-him/

But Ward says he’ll continue to do what he’s done in the past.

“I’ll still hit him,” Ward said Wednesday, according to the Associated Press. “I’ll just get
fined. There’s nothing I can do about it. It’s either that or try to
hurt somebody. So are you going to fine me, or do you want me to end
someone’s career? I’d rather take a fine than try to end somebody’s
career, so I’m not going to change.”

Ward basically is saying that his alternative is to hit a guy low, and risk tearing up his knee. But a guy can live a long time with a messed up leg joint. It’s hard to make it beyond the normal U.S. male life expectancy with a brain that has been rattled in its box one time to many while playing football.

....

“The unfortunate thing is me being labeled that, and then the rule
change came out, so it’s kind of like me being singled out as the dirty
guy that’s in the league, a dirty offensive player,” Ward said. “A wide
receiver being dirty — I take that as a compliment.”

He shouldn’t. Because if he continues to apply the crown of his helmet to the helmets and chins and jaws of unsuspecting opponents, Ward initially will be fined.

Eventually, he’ll be suspended.


Guy was one of the biggest tools in the game. I sooooooo wish Vontaze Burfict would have been around when he was in his prime.

[BluegrassRedleg]

Yeah, but so were a lot of other great and eventual HoF players. "Dirty" is an odd thing in the game of football. Eye of the beholder at times. You know the thing about those polls? Defensive players don't like getting hit, and they especially don't like a WR grinning after he pancakes them. They're used to dishing it out, being the bullies.

[BluegrassRedleg]

I won't keep ya up any longer. Actually lost track of time myself. :)

[jojo]

Roll Tide (my sources tell me you're a 'Bama fan).

I think we've found the source of your intellectual troubles. You need better sources.

[Dom Heffner]

Yeah, but so were a lot of other great and eventual HoF players. "Dirty" is an odd thing in the game of football. Eye of the beholder at times. You know the thing about those polls? Defensive players don't like getting hit, and they especially don't like a WR grinning after he pancakes them. They're used to dishing it out, being the bullies.

Right. They got Joey Porter right, Hines Ward was misunderstood.

[wolfboy]

I think we've found the source of your intellectual troubles. You need better sources.

:laugh: The double dig at Dom and me. Well done, sir.

[Hillsdale87]

The Ravens have consistently put bounties out on other players by admission (See: Terrell Suggs v Rashard Mendenhall and Hines Ward). After the game where he broke Mendenhall's collarbone, Ray Lewis said "After the play, I wasn't screaming 'he's hurt.' I was screaming 'he's done.'"

You have to get to an altogether different level of dirt to match the Ravens over the past few years.

Rumor is that Haley put a bounty on Gilberry for week 14

[Dom Heffner]

:laugh: The double dig at Dom and me. Well done, sir.

Jojo has a bean shtick that comes off more as a frank shtick.

[dubc47834]

Rumor is that Haley put a bounty on Gilberry for week 14

Where's that rumor coming from? Haven't heard anything about bounties in a while!

[Hillsdale87]

Where's that rumor coming from? Haven't heard anything about bounties in a while!

Lapham says he was told that Haley put a bounty on Gilberry. Who knows if it's true

http://steelerswire.usatoday.com/2016/01/08/todd-haley-steelers-bounty-bengals-wallace-gilberry-threatened-week-14/

[dubc47834]

Lapham says he was told that Haley put a bounty on Gilberry. Who knows if it's true

http://steelerswire.usatoday.com/2016/01/08/todd-haley-steelers-bounty-bengals-wallace-gilberry-threatened-week-14/

HMMMM...anyone smell an investigation?

Probably not!!!

[CTA513]

Lapham says he was told that Haley put a bounty on Gilberry. Who knows if it's true

http://steelerswire.usatoday.com/2016/01/08/todd-haley-steelers-bounty-bengals-wallace-gilberry-threatened-week-14/

it wouldn't be surprising after seeing how Gilberry acted in the games against them compared to how he usually acts

[CTA513]

HMMMM...anyone smell an investigation?

Probably not!!!

if they do it will be in the offseason, though I doubt they do anything since they didn't even bother to address the guy who publicly threatened to hurt Burfict off the field.

[wolfboy]

if they do it will be in the offseason, though I doubt they do anything since they didn't even bother to address the guy who publicly threatened to hurt Burfict off the field.

You mean hard-nosed Steelers enthusiasm both on and off the field?

[traderumor]

Bounties again. The league is such a quagmire of cheating activity, from the Saints and their bounty systems, with coaches who were involved back in the league. There are the multiple Patriots scandals. There is the Steelers ongoing no slap or hand slap for their in game shenanigans. North Dallas Forty seems like a family program compared to the level of integrity in today's game. Sort of like our culture.

[dubc47834]

Then there's this...if true it's uncalled for. You don't spit on people!!!

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14554721/ramon-foster-says-two-cincinnati-bengals-players-spit-pittsburgh-steelers

[traderumor]

Then there's this...if true it's uncalled for. You don't spit on people!!!

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14554721/ramon-foster-says-two-cincinnati-bengals-players-spit-pittsburgh-steelersFoster was in the middle of stuff all night. I'll take that for what it's worth. The Steelers have been exhibiting symptoms of psychopathy.

You don't spit on people (hearsay)...or pull hair (video evidence).

[Cooper]

They're drugged up out of their minds -more than 50% of them. Big Ben hurts his arm in a Big way...goes in and gets a huge short of a painkiller or anesthetic and notice he couldn't come in to soon -he had to wait for it to kick in. It kicks in and all the sudden he can throw ball 25-30 yards down field. Is this good for his safety? No way- he could incur long term damage to his arm -but that's the culture -80% of the players in the NFL shootup with Norco BEFORE the game......and for some reason the NFL can't understand why they (the players) can't control their emotions and why they use their bodies to induce career ending hits. Maybe a player stops leading with his head and stops delivering flying hits if he learns that these hits could cause damage -long term damage. If you don't have a body full of substances -you wrap up a guy instead of doing crazy things. The NFL has made a deal with the devil w re: to drug use and in all reality -they're pretty fine with it. The concussions and the use of substances are all tied up together, but I don't think they see it because it's been a part of the culture for so long.

[dubc47834]

They're drugged up out of their minds -more than 50% of them. Big Ben hurts his arm in a Big way...goes in and gets a huge short of a painkiller or anesthetic and notice he couldn't come in to soon -he had to wait for it to kick in. It kicks in and all the sudden he can throw ball 25-30 yards down field. Is this good for his safety? No way- he could incur long term damage to his arm -but that's the culture -80% of the players in the NFL shootup with Norco BEFORE the game......and for some reason the NFL can't understand why they (the players) can't control their emotions and why they use their bodies to induce career ending hits. Maybe a player stops leading with his head and stops delivering flying hits if he learns that these hits could cause damage -long term damage. If you don't have a body full of substances -you wrap up a guy instead of doing crazy things. The NFL has made a deal with the devil w re: to drug use and in all reality -they're pretty fine with it. The concussions and the use of substances are all tied up together, but I don't think they see it because it's been a part of the culture for so long.

At this point, if they don't already know this, then they are idiots!!!

[wolfboy]

Foster was in the middle of stuff all night. I'll take that for what it's worth. The Steelers have been exhibiting symptoms of psychopathy.

You don't spit on people (hearsay)...or pull hair (video evidence).

So he names Burfict but doesn't want to name the other culprit. :rolleyes: Smear job of epic proportions coming from the most saintly organization in professional sports. Makes me physically ill.

[wolfboy]

At least some people aren't buying the prepackaged narrative:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=G5WVoUyFaeY&app=desktop

[traderumor]

They're drugged up out of their minds -more than 50% of them. Big Ben hurts his arm in a Big way...goes in and gets a huge short of a painkiller or anesthetic and notice he couldn't come in to soon -he had to wait for it to kick in. It kicks in and all the sudden he can throw ball 25-30 yards down field. Is this good for his safety? No way- he could incur long term damage to his arm -but that's the culture -80% of the players in the NFL shootup with Norco BEFORE the game......and for some reason the NFL can't understand why they (the players) can't control their emotions and why they use their bodies to induce career ending hits. Maybe a player stops leading with his head and stops delivering flying hits if he learns that these hits could cause damage -long term damage. If you don't have a body full of substances -you wrap up a guy instead of doing crazy things. The NFL has made a deal with the devil w re: to drug use and in all reality -they're pretty fine with it. The concussions and the use of substances are all tied up together, but I don't think they see it because it's been a part of the culture for so long.

I imagine this is similar to the steroid issue in baseball. They know, but can't kill the cash cow. Owners are happy, fans are happy, media is happy, players are happy, or at least those who benefit financially from their megamillion contracts. But then the families end up with this person in their home who is feeling the long-term effects of concussions and drugs and violence, both during and after their career. A lot of soul selling...for the root of all kinds of evil. Dr. Frankenstein's proudest moment, he could not have envisioned the mass production of manufactured men.

[Hoosier Red]

Lapham says he was told that Haley put a bounty on Gilberry. Who knows if it's true

http://steelerswire.usatoday.com/2016/01/08/todd-haley-steelers-bounty-bengals-wallace-gilberry-threatened-week-14/

I'm certain it's possible but I'm discounting everything Lapham says for the time being. He was pretty unhinged last night.
He was claiming that b/c the official who threw the flag on PacMan was former Steelers coach Ray Horton's brother, that he couldn't wait to throw a flag on the Bengals in that situation.

Of course this ignores that Ray Horton also played and coached for the Bengals, and hasn't been a Steelers coach since 2010.
There may be a conspiracy to screw over the Bengals, but my guess is if that's the case; 1)It goes higher up than any particular referees vendetta, and 2)That referee would have a stronger connection than he pointed out.

[wolfboy]

I'm certain it's possible but I'm discounting everything Lapham says for the time being. He was pretty unhinged last night.
He was claiming that b/c the official who threw the flag on PacMan was former Steelers coach Ray Horton's brother, that he couldn't wait to throw a flag on the Bengals in that situation.

Of course this ignores that Ray Horton also played and coached for the Bengals, and hasn't been a Steelers coach since 2010.
There may be a conspiracy to screw over the Bengals, but my guess is if that's the case; 1)It goes higher up than any particular referees vendetta, and 2)That referee would have a stronger connection than he pointed out.

Yeah, Lap was well on the fringe last night. I didn't catch the entire show but I enjoyed hearing from Matt Burke.

[bucksfan2]

After digesting most of the game, for a few days at least, I still believe had Jeremy Hill held onto the football for a second longer that game was over. That said my thoughts directly turn back towards the officiating. The same crew that did the Bengals Steelers game from late in the regular season did the playoff game. I would have been ok with that, but the regular season game was one of the worst games I have ever been to. The players were out of control on both sides and the officials lost the game early. While I think they decided they were going to be more punitive in the playoff game, they still lost control of it. You had a Steelers coach pulling the hair of a Bengals defender. You had Shazier spear Bernard, and then dance at midfield while Bernard lay on the ground unconscious. While I think the Burfict hit on Brown deserved the flag, I do not think it was as egregious as it is being made out to be. I don't think it was worse than the Shazier hit nor do I think it was worst than the Mitchell hit on Eifort earlier in the season.

The thing that irks me the most is the flag on Jones, giving the Steelers a chip shot FG when a Steeler assistant coach, a known Bengal adversary, was allowed on the field provoking Jones. That should never have been allowed to happen, the officials should have discussed what happened and at least had offsetting penalties.

[alwaysawarrior]

After digesting most of the game, for a few days at least, I still believe had Jeremy Hill held onto the football for a second longer that game was over. That said my thoughts directly turn back towards the officiating. The same crew that did the Bengals Steelers game from late in the regular season did the playoff game. I would have been ok with that, but the regular season game was one of the worst games I have ever been to. The players were out of control on both sides and the officials lost the game early. While I think they decided they were going to be more punitive in the playoff game, they still lost control of it. You had a Steelers coach pulling the hair of a Bengals defender. You had Shazier spear Bernard, and then dance at midfield while Bernard lay on the ground unconscious. While I think the Burfict hit on Brown deserved the flag, I do not think it was as egregious as it is being made out to be. I don't think it was worse than the Shazier hit nor do I think it was worst than the Mitchell hit on Eifort earlier in the season.

The thing that irks me the most is the flag on Jones, giving the Steelers a chip shot FG when a Steeler assistant coach, a known Bengal adversary, was allowed on the field provoking Jones. That should never have been allowed to happen, the officials should have discussed what happened and at least had offsetting penalties.

I don't even believe it should have been offsetting penalties with the "initiative" to clean up the game by flagging the instigator, at least that's what we've been told in games all year.

[wolfboy]

After digesting most of the game, for a few days at least, I still believe had Jeremy Hill held onto the football for a second longer that game was over. That said my thoughts directly turn back towards the officiating. The same crew that did the Bengals Steelers game from late in the regular season did the playoff game. I would have been ok with that, but the regular season game was one of the worst games I have ever been to. The players were out of control on both sides and the officials lost the game early. While I think they decided they were going to be more punitive in the playoff game, they still lost control of it. You had a Steelers coach pulling the hair of a Bengals defender. You had Shazier spear Bernard, and then dance at midfield while Bernard lay on the ground unconscious. While I think the Burfict hit on Brown deserved the flag, I do not think it was as egregious as it is being made out to be. I don't think it was worse than the Shazier hit nor do I think it was worst than the Mitchell hit on Eifort earlier in the season.

The thing that irks me the most is the flag on Jones, giving the Steelers a chip shot FG when a Steeler assistant coach, a known Bengal adversary, was allowed on the field provoking Jones. That should never have been allowed to happen, the officials should have discussed what happened and at least had offsetting penalties.

And it's not like they didn't see it. Porter was SURROUNDED by officials. Yeah, yeah, Jones has a reputation. But Porter doesn't?!?

[Hoosier Red]

The thing that irks me the most is the flag on Jones, giving the Steelers a chip shot FG when a Steeler assistant coach, a known Bengal adversary, was allowed on the field provoking Jones. That should never have been allowed to happen, the officials should have discussed what happened and at least had offsetting penalties.


I don't even believe it should have been offsetting penalties with the "initiative" to clean up the game by flagging the instigator, at least that's what we've been told in games all year.

As irritated as I am that the Steelers got one over on the Bengals again in this situation, I still come back to the players simply having to have better control of themselves, even in the face of such instigation.

Earlier in the season, I had half jokingly suggested the Bengals should have a Pacman wrangler after returns to keep him from doing something dumb and getting a 15 yard penalty. I think of it working like the Asst coaches and bench players during the NCAA tournament who keep the guys from going onto the court when they jump up to celebrate.

I'm no longer joking. In situations such as happened Saturday night, the Bengals need someone to walk Pacman(and Vontaze) back to the sideline and keep them there until play is ready to resume.

A long pause in play and high tensions are a recipe for disaster, and low and behold disaster struck.

[Hoosier Red]

Yeah, Lap was well on the fringe last night. I didn't catch the entire show but I enjoyed hearing from Matt Burke.

You mean the;
<Lapham> long rant on opposing LB coach
<Burke> uhhhhhhhh
<Lance> We'll go to break.
:D

[wolfboy]

You mean the;
<Lapham> long rant on opposing LB coach
<Burke> uhhhhhhhh
<Lance> We'll go to break.
:D

Well......fair point. But at some point Burke did get to offer his take on Burfict's hit, Shazier's hit and officiating generally across the league.

[Kingspoint]

Quit trolling the thread.

What are you jabbering about, koko?

[bucksfan2]

As irritated as I am that the Steelers got one over on the Bengals again in this situation, I still come back to the players simply having to have better control of themselves, even in the face of such instigation.

Earlier in the season, I had half jokingly suggested the Bengals should have a Pacman wrangler after returns to keep him from doing something dumb and getting a 15 yard penalty. I think of it working like the Asst coaches and bench players during the NCAA tournament who keep the guys from going onto the court when they jump up to celebrate.

I'm no longer joking. In situations such as happened Saturday night, the Bengals need someone to walk Pacman(and Vontaze) back to the sideline and keep them there until play is ready to resume.

A long pause in play and high tensions are a recipe for disaster, and low and behold disaster struck.

I don't necessarily disagree with you. Had Pacman gone after an opposing player I would have been fine. But all of a sudden we want these guys to play like gladiators for 4-6 seconds and then turn it off. Pacman was on the field, a place where he belonged, and was provoked by a Pittsburgh coach in a position he was not allowed to be in. The officials handed Pittsburgh a 35 yard FG instead of a 50 yarder. When the NFL comes out and says that the coach was in the wrong and will be fined, they pretty much admitted the officials made a mistake.

[Reds Fanatic]

As irritated as I am that the Steelers got one over on the Bengals again in this situation, I still come back to the players simply having to have better control of themselves, even in the face of such instigation.

Earlier in the season, I had half jokingly suggested the Bengals should have a Pacman wrangler after returns to keep him from doing something dumb and getting a 15 yard penalty. I think of it working like the Asst coaches and bench players during the NCAA tournament who keep the guys from going onto the court when they jump up to celebrate.

I'm no longer joking. In situations such as happened Saturday night, the Bengals need someone to walk Pacman(and Vontaze) back to the sideline and keep them there until play is ready to resume.

A long pause in play and high tensions are a recipe for disaster, and low and behold disaster struck.

In this article it says the Bengals discussed that very thing in their year end meetings yesterday. The plan is to pull players off the field in cases like this to try to avoid the dumb penalties. Who knows if they will stick to it but it is a good idea.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14554722/cincinnati-bengals-veterans-bemoan-lack-respect-nfl-players


Coach has already said that moving forward here, we're not going to do things [like what happened Saturday]," Peko said. "If anybody is having any arguments with referees, he's going to get you out of there. Moving forward, we're going to make that change, and it's a good change."

[dabvu2498]

Ironic that they talked to Peko on that issue. He left the bench and picked up a penalty. Probably the dumbest of all the Bengal penalties of the night.

[wolfboy]

Ironic that they talked to Peko on that issue. He left the bench and picked up a penalty. Probably the dumbest of all the Bengal penalties of the night.

He was clearly trying to lead Joey Porter back to the sidelines.

[BluegrassRedleg]

This thread is a pretty solid depiction of America in 2016. You could replace Steelers and Bengals with "Democrats" and "Republicans" and get the same, circular BS.

Deny. Deflect. Do not take personal responsibility.

Get caught doing something? "But, but but... THEY did this!!!" Ask little kids in my wife's elementary school class how that works out for them when they get in trouble for doing something.

[traderumor]

This thread is a pretty solid depiction of America in 2016. You could replace Steelers and Bengals with "Democrats" and "Republicans" and get the same, circular BS.

Deny. Deflect. Do not take personal responsibility.

Get caught doing something? "But, but but... THEY did this!!!" Ask little kids in my wife's elementary school class how that works out for them when they get in trouble for doing something.The Bengals were caught and got in trouble. I'm not following your analogy.

[traderumor]

Ironic that they talked to Peko on that issue. He left the bench and picked up a penalty. Probably the dumbest of all the Bengal penalties of the night.He was told he was invisible when his cape was on. Jokes on him.

[wolfboy]

This thread is a pretty solid depiction of America in 2016. You could replace Steelers and Bengals with "Democrats" and "Republicans" and get the same, circular BS.

Deny. Deflect. Do not take personal responsibility.

Get caught doing something? "But, but but... THEY did this!!!" Ask little kids in my wife's elementary school class how that works out for them when they get in trouble for doing something.

May we all strive to live as holy as thou (but clearly not holier than thou).

[Reds Fanatic]

Interesting discussion on some of the calls and non-calls that night that finally shows some in the media get how big some of the calls that went against the Bengals were. It is an interesting comparison between a hit Williams was flagged on early in the game versus the Shazier hit which drew no flag


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgyuOLlQP-Y&feature=youtu.be

[WVRed]

So thoughts on Pac Man saying he would apologize only if Brown misses the Denver game?

[Ironman92]

10241

This is your head coach.

And his punishment for that was severe...he had to watch him return kicks to the 12 yard line and muff punt returns for about 6 games.

[Ironman92]

So thoughts on Pac Man saying he would apologize only if Brown misses the Denver game?

He's been arrested 8x and I heard his Twitter rant. An apology from him wouldn't hold any meaning.

[SteelSD]

He's been arrested 8x and I heard his Twitter rant. An apology from him wouldn't hold any meaning.

Technically, Jones has to apologize because he said he would if Brown doesn't play on Saturday.

I guess he thinks the Grammys are being hosted by Jerry Porter on Sunday?

[Dom Heffner]

And his punishment for that was severe...he had to watch him return kicks to the 12 yard line and muff punt returns for about 6 games.

The refs didn't even flag him, he got no suspension.

Another meaningless fine.

[wolfboy]

The refs didn't even flag him, he got no suspension.

Another meaningless fine.

Didn't you know the NFL has gone to the mobile gaming model? You can make in-game purchases to increase your chance of victory.

[Hillsdale87]

I'm certain it's possible but I'm discounting everything Lapham says for the time being. He was pretty unhinged last night.


I would take everything from Lap with a grain of salt as he clearly has a bengals bias, but he said that early in the week before the game, not when he was all riled up.

[Dom Heffner]

This thread is a pretty solid depiction of America in 2016. You could replace Steelers and Bengals with "Democrats" and "Republicans" and get the same, circular BS.

Deny. Deflect. Do not take personal responsibility.

Get caught doing something? "But, but but... THEY did this!!!" Ask little kids in my wife's elementary school class how that works out for them when they get in trouble for doing something.

What happened Saturday was actually the perfect example of the faculty only punishing one of two kids who got into a fight.

And mostly because of some bias towards a side.

[Dom Heffner]

I'm certain it's possible but I'm discounting everything Lapham says for the time being. He was pretty unhinged last night.
He was claiming that b/c the official who threw the flag on PacMan was former Steelers coach Ray Horton's brother, that he couldn't wait to throw a flag on the Bengals in that situation.

Of course this ignores that Ray Horton also played and coached for the Bengals, and hasn't been a Steelers coach since 2010.
There may be a conspiracy to screw over the Bengals, but my guess is if that's the case; 1)It goes higher up than any particular referees vendetta, and 2)That referee would have a stronger connection than he pointed out.

Lapham should be unhinged.

Anger is a legitimate emotion and can be 100% used in the proper way.

This town is fired up, they aren't taking it anymore. Sit there like Mandela if you want, nobody has listened to that method for 40 years.

Lapham needs to be as unglued as he can be. He is the mouthpiece for a team and fan base that is tired of the selective officiating that somehow benefits the same exact team every year.

[wolfboy]

Lapham should be unhinged.

Anger is a legitimate emotion and can be 100% used in the proper way.

This town is fired up, they aren't taking it anymore. Sit there like Mandela if you want, nobody has listened to that method for 40 years.

Lapham needs to be as unglued as he can be. He is the mouthpiece for a team and fan base that is tired of the selective officiating that somehow benefits the same exact team every year.

https://fbexternal-a.akamaihd.net/safe_image.php?d=AQBhzpdVGjuStl4G&url=http%3A%2F%2Fimg-9gag-fun.9cache.com%2Fphoto%2Fao99GMA_460sa.gif&ext=gif

[dubc47834]

This thread is a pretty solid depiction of America in 2016. You could replace Steelers and Bengals with "Democrats" and "Republicans" and get the same, circular BS.

Deny. Deflect. Do not take personal responsibility.

Get caught doing something? "But, but but... THEY did this!!!" Ask little kids in my wife's elementary school class how that works out for them when they get in trouble for doing something.

Exactly... I never thought of it this way, but it's true. Does it really matter what the Steeler's did, not really. Worry about yourself. How many times has everyone seen a game where 1 player pushes another and the 2nd player retaliates and gets the penalty. I get it that the Bengals players & fans feel they are being bullied by the Steelers and needed to respond. But they also need to think about what they want people to think about them....

1. Be the team that stood up to the big bad bullies that are the Pittsburg Steelers by any means necessary, but still have that rep as not being able to win ANY game that matters....or
2. Be the team that played hard, within the rules, & smart and won their 1st playoff game since January 6th, 1991.

I'll take number 2 please!!!

[Dom Heffner]

Exactly... I never thought of it this way, but it's true. Does it really matter what the Steeler's did, not really. Worry about yourself. How many times has everyone seen a game where 1 player pushes another and the 2nd player retaliates and gets the penalty. I get it that the Bengals players & fans feel they are being bullied by the Steelers and needed to respond. But they also need to think about what they want people to think about them....

1. Be the team that stood up to the big bad bullies that are the Pittsburg Steelers by any means necessary, but still have that rep as not being able to win ANY game that matters....or
2. Be the team that played hard, within the rules, & smart and won their 1st playoff game since January 6th, 1991.

I'll take number 2 please!!!

Yes, your argument is number two.

Absolutely agree with that.

[dubc47834]

Yes, your argument is number two.

Absolutely agree with that.

Man...that the best you have? Expected better than that!

But seriously. There was more on the line during that game, not just a playoff win, the identity of your organization, but the players fell right in line with what the perception has been for the last decade or so!

[Hoosier Red]

Lapham should be unhinged.

Anger is a legitimate emotion and can be 100% used in the proper way.

This town is fired up, they aren't taking it anymore. Sit there like Mandela if you want, nobody has listened to that method for 40 years.

Lapham needs to be as unglued as he can be. He is the mouthpiece for a team and fan base that is tired of the selective officiating that somehow benefits the same exact team every year.

I'm not sure what I've said to be labeled Mandela, but I'll happily accept it.

I'm not even sure how to argue your point because I disagree with a great deal of the premise.

Just so I understand though, you believe the Bengals actions on Saturday represented a concerted effort to "not be bullied" by the Steelers anymore?
That they were hoping to call attention to the selective enforcement of rules and point out the thuggish behavior of the Steelers?

If so, how successful were they in achieving that goal? Because if I'm the Steeelers, I feel pretty good about the ramifications of my bullying. Not only did their actions come without consequence(as usual), but they invited a response from the Bengals that gave me a free pass to the next round. The Steelers bullying actions achieved more than their play on the field dictated.

Win the game. Everything else comes in second.

[wolfboy]

I'm not sure what I've said to be labeled Mandela, but I'll happily accept it.

I'm not even sure how to argue your point because I disagree with a great deal of the premise.

Just so I understand though, you believe the Bengals actions on Saturday represented a concerted effort to "not be bullied" by the Steelers anymore?
That they were hoping to call attention to the selective enforcement of rules and point out the thuggish behavior of the Steelers?

If so, how successful were they in achieving that goal? Because if I'm the Steeelers, I feel pretty good about the ramifications of my bullying. Not only did their actions come without consequence(as usual), but they invited a response from the Bengals that gave me a free pass to the next round. The Steelers bullying actions achieved more than their play on the field dictated.

Win the game. Everything else comes in second.

Not only that, but they won the right to reshape the narrative. If we win that game, the media is talking about how dirty the Steelers are for pulling hair and laying out Gio.

[Hoosier Red]

Man...that the best you have? Expected better than that!

But seriously. There was more on the line during that game, not just a playoff win, the identity of your organization, but the players fell right in line with what the perception has been for the last decade or so!

While I disagree with Dom, I also think the narrative being spewed by the national media for the most part is inaccurate.
It's often said that "History is written by the winners" and I think in this social media age, the corollary is that "History points and laughs at the loser." At least in the short term.

[dubc47834]

While I disagree with Dom, I also think the narrative being spewed by the national media for the most part is inaccurate.
It's often said that "History is written by the winners" and I think in this social media age, the corollary is that "History points and laughs at the loser." At least in the short term.

True statement...I can't think of a team that has been labeled "losers" that are viewed favorably...other than maybe the Cubs. Even with them I'm not so sure. Either way, I think the Bengals could have changed the way people thought about them if they won this game, specially given the circumstances before and during this game!

[757690]

Exactly... I never thought of it this way, but it's true. Does it really matter what the Steeler's did, not really. Worry about yourself. How many times has everyone seen a game where 1 player pushes another and the 2nd player retaliates and gets the penalty. I get it that the Bengals players & fans feel they are being bullied by the Steelers and needed to respond. But they also need to think about what they want people to think about them....

1. Be the team that stood up to the big bad bullies that are the Pittsburg Steelers by any means necessary, but still have that rep as not being able to win ANY game that matters....or
2. Be the team that played hard, within the rules, & smart and won their 1st playoff game since January 6th, 1991.

I'll take number 2 please!!!

In the NFL, choosing #2 isn't a realistic, meaningful option. What has turned me off of football over the last decade, is that, after watching a game, I rarely, if ever, come away with the feeling that the best team won. Most games are decided on how poorly trained refs interpret a poorly written rule book.

Play hard, and by the rules doesn't exist, because no one understands the rules, especially the refs.

That is why so many Bengal fans are so upset, not because they think the refs blew the game for them, but because the game revealed that NFL games are inherently unfair.

[dubc47834]

In the NFL, choosing #2 isn't a realistic, meaningful option. What has turned me off of football over the last decade, is that, after watching a game, I rarely, if ever, come away with the feeling that the best team won. Most games are decided on how poorly trained refs interpret a poorly written rule book.

Play hard, and by the rules doesn't exist, because no one understands the rules, especially the refs.

That is why so many Bengal fans are so upset, not because they think the refs blew the game for them, but because the game revealed that NFL games are inherently unfair.

This isn't true tho in this thread. If you go back and look at the majority of the post it's how bad the refs blew calls, calls that should have gone against the Steeler's.

I agree that the rulebook is horribly written and in many cases way to detailed (what is a catch?). Also, I think another problem with refs in general is their age. Football players are bigger, stronger, & faster now, but the refs are the same 60 year old dudes.

[traderumor]

I'm not sure what I've said to be labeled Mandela, but I'll happily accept it.

I'm not even sure how to argue your point because I disagree with a great deal of the premise.

Just so I understand though, you believe the Bengals actions on Saturday represented a concerted effort to "not be bullied" by the Steelers anymore?
That they were hoping to call attention to the selective enforcement of rules and point out the thuggish behavior of the Steelers?

If so, how successful were they in achieving that goal? Because if I'm the Steeelers, I feel pretty good about the ramifications of my bullying. Not only did their actions come without consequence(as usual), but they invited a response from the Bengals that gave me a free pass to the next round. The Steelers bullying actions achieved more than their play on the field dictated.

Win the game. Everything else comes in second.


Not only that, but they won the right to reshape the narrative. If we win that game, the media is talking about how dirty the Steelers are for pulling hair and laying out Gio.


Exactly... I never thought of it this way, but it's true. Does it really matter what the Steeler's did, not really. Worry about yourself. How many times has everyone seen a game where 1 player pushes another and the 2nd player retaliates and gets the penalty. I get it that the Bengals players & fans feel they are being bullied by the Steelers and needed to respond. But they also need to think about what they want people to think about them....

1. Be the team that stood up to the big bad bullies that are the Pittsburg Steelers by any means necessary, but still have that rep as not being able to win ANY game that matters....or
2. Be the team that played hard, within the rules, & smart and won their 1st playoff game since January 6th, 1991.

I'll take number 2 please!!!I'm an idealist as much as the next guy, but we are talking about football players here, not the Physics Olympics. Great example of victim blaming, though.

[dubc47834]

In the NFL, choosing #2 isn't a realistic, meaningful option. What has turned me off of football over the last decade, is that, after watching a game, I rarely, if ever, come away with the feeling that the best team won. Most games are decided on how poorly trained refs interpret a poorly written rule book.

Play hard, and by the rules doesn't exist, because no one understands the rules, especially the refs.

That is why so many Bengal fans are so upset, not because they think the refs blew the game for them, but because the game revealed that NFL games are inherently unfair.

This isn't true tho in this thread. If you go back and look at the majority of the post it's how bad the refs blew calls, calls that should have gone against the Steeler's.

I agree that the rulebook is horribly written and in many cases way to detailed (what is a catch?). Also, I think another problem with refs in general is their age. Football players are bigger, stronger, & faster now, but the refs are the same 60 year old dudes.

[dubc47834]

I'm an idealist as much as the next guy, but we are talking about football players here, not the Physics Olympics. Great example of victim blaming, though.

What are you talking about, no one is blaming anyone. The only thing the Bengals are a victim of is their own end of game antics.

[Chip R]

Lapham should be unhinged.

Anger is a legitimate emotion and can be 100% used in the proper way.

This town is fired up, they aren't taking it anymore. Sit there like Mandela if you want, nobody has listened to that method for 40 years.

Lapham needs to be as unglued as he can be. He is the mouthpiece for a team and fan base that is tired of the selective officiating that somehow benefits the same exact team every year.

They aren't going to take it any more? What are they going to do, refuse to play the Steelers? Get the officials fired? TP Roger Goodell's house?

[traderumor]

What are you talking about, no one is blaming anyone. The only thing the Bengals are a victim of is their own end of game antics.So.....you are blaming them. That is a position, but you seem to be very confused on your own position at this point.

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They aren't going to take it any more? What are they going to do, refuse to play the Steelers? Get the officials fired? TP Roger Goodell's house?

Cue Dee Snyder. Guns n Roses out, Twisted Sister in.

[Bob Sheed]

So the two options for the Bengals seems to be:

1. Overcome the NFL bias toward the Steelers

or

2. Allow that bias to antagonize themselves into poor decision making.


Hey now that I think about it, this DOES actually sound a bit like American History. :rolleyes:

If only there were a 3rd choice. I don't know... something out of this world like

3. A level playing field.

:eek: Dare to dream?

Well I have a dream that my four little children will one day watch a Bengals-Steelers game where the players on each team will not be judged by the color of their football helmets, but by the content of their play on the field. Where "gritty" will not be used as a qualifier substitute word for "dirty", for one team but not the other. Where, blah blah blah ok nevermind, I'll stop... just sick of not just the NFL and media bias toward the Steelers, but also the notion that it isn't a problem that needs to be addressed, but instead needs to be "better tolerated."

[CTA513]

steelers ban media from talking to porter:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000621832/article/report-steelers-ban-media-from-talking-to-joey-porter

https://twitter.com/EdBouchette/status/687266869120790528

[dubc47834]

Soooo...everyone has it out for the Bengals. There is a conspiracy to hold the Bengals down. I'm not seeing it guys.

You know, the first guys/team that cry there is a conspiracy/unlevel playing field, is the team that doesn't win! I guess Im just part of the conspiracy at this point... my bad guys!!!

[Dom Heffner]

Steelers #3 all time in cheating in the NFL.

http://yourteamcheats.com/

[Dom Heffner]

Soooo...everyone has it out for the Bengals. There is a conspiracy to hold the Bengals down. I'm not seeing it guys.

You know, the first guys/team that cry there is a conspiracy/unlevel playing field, is the team that doesn't win! I guess Im just part of the conspiracy at this point... my bad guys!!!

I know. You can't see that a coach on the field harassing is a penalty, you can't see leading with your helmet is a penalty...

You can't see a whole lot, really.

[Dom Heffner]

So the two options for the Bengals seems to be:

1. Overcome the NFL bias toward the Steelers

or

2. Allow that bias to antagonize themselves into poor decision making.


Hey now that I think about it, this DOES actually sound a bit like American History. :rolleyes:

If only there were a 3rd choice. I don't know... something out of this world like

3. A level playing field.

:eek: Dare to dream?

Well I have a dream that my four little children will one day watch a Bengals-Steelers game where the players on each team will not be judged by the color of their football helmets, but by the content of their play on the field. Where "gritty" will not be used as a qualifier substitute word for "dirty", for one team but not the other. Where, blah blah blah ok nevermind, I'll stop... just sick of not just the NFL and media bias toward the Steelers, but also the notion that it isn't a problem that needs to be addressed, but instead needs to be "better tolerated."

It's sort of like being 80 years old, someone swipes your $5 million retirement fund and someone says, "Mr. Jones, you'll just to have to prepare better next time."

[Dom Heffner]

He's been arrested 8x and I heard his Twitter rant. An apology from him wouldn't hold any meaning.

Kind of like taking coaching ethics from Mike Tomlin.

[Dom Heffner]

Man...that the best you have? Expected better than that!

But seriously. There was more on the line during that game, not just a playoff win, the identity of your organization, but the players fell right in line with what the perception has been for the last decade or so!

Right. The last 1:30 doesn't count....the Bengals should simply overcome 15 yard free penalties with :30 seconds remaining.

Nice to see you have your official sport cliche degree.

"Oh you have to beat lousy calls..."

Kind of like saying to someone who had their house broken into, "You should have been home..."

[dubc47834]

Steelers #3 all time in cheating in the NFL.

http://yourteamcheats.com/

Any list that has the Patriots as 20th in cheating probably isn't a good list. Still pretty interesting. My Colts are 6th. I wouldn't think that to be true, but Im not objective either.

[dubc47834]

I know. You can't see that a coach on the field harassing is a penalty, you can't see leading with your helmet is a penalty...

You can't see a whole lot, really.

Dude I get it, there was missed calls. Doesn't mean there is a conspiracy against the Bengals!

[Dom Heffner]

Any list that has the Patriots as 20th in cheating probably isn't a good list. Still pretty interesting. My Colts are 6th. I wouldn't think that to be true, but Im not objective either.

Actually- it sort of shows you differently. It doesn't surprise me you have trouble figuring it out.

[Dom Heffner]

Dude I get it, there was missed calls. Doesn't mean there is a conspiracy against the Bengals!

Oh, so if they do it on accident, we should be happy about it?

I don't care if it was orchestrated, no orchestrated...

You're paid to do a job, do it.

Who do you root for again?

[dubc47834]

Right. The last 1:30 doesn't count....the Bengals should simply overcome 15 yard free penalties with :30 seconds remaining.

Nice to see you have your official sport cliche degree.

"Oh you have to beat lousy calls..."

Kind of like saying to someone who had their house broken into, "You should have been home..."

There is no denying that the last 1:30 of that game fell right into line with the national perception of the Bengals...you can't. If you do deny that then your blind! It doesn't matter what the Steelers did, the Bengals fell for all the baiting. It's not a cliché, it's truth. We are just debating in circles!!!

- - - Updated - - -


Oh, so if they do it on accident, we should be happy about it?

I don't care if it was orchestrated, no orchestrated...

You're paid to do a job, do it.

Who do you root for again?

Colts

- - - Updated - - -


Actually- it sort of shows you differently. It doesn't surprise me you have trouble figuring it out.

Why's that?

[Bob Sheed]

Next season I hope Marvin Lewis pulls a Tomlin and trips the next Steeler that goes sprinting down the sideline past him. When in Rome...

Random contribution # 2: Guess who the "Madden Mobile Team of the Week Hero" is? Wait for it...

Ryan Shazier
13 tackles
2 forced fumbles
1 recovered fumble
1 blatant penalty and 0 penalties assessed.

They left off that last one naturally.

[Redhook]

Doesn't mean there is a conspiracy against the Bengals!

I don't think there's a conspiracy against the Bengals. I do, however, strongly believe there is something going on in favor of the Steelers. The more I read about the history of non-calls in favor of the Steelers and the very limited sanctions towards them the more I believe in it. They get away with much more than the average team. It's head-scratching and vomitizing.

[Bob Sheed]

I don't think there's a conspiracy against the Bengals. I do, however, strongly believe there is something going on in favor of the Steelers. The more I read about the history of non-calls in favor of the Steelers and the very limited sanctions towards them the more I believe in it. They get away with much more than the average team. It's head-scratching and vomitizing.

It's not dirty. It's hard-nosed. Because Pittsburgh is a steel driving midwestern gritty hard workin' lunchpail town, and its team reflects that.

[dubc47834]

I don't think there's a conspiracy against the Bengals. I do, however, strongly believe there is something going on in favor of the Steelers. The more I read about the history of non-calls in favor of the Steelers and the very limited sanctions towards them the more I believe in it. They get away with much more than the average team. It's head-scratching and vomitizing.

I'm not a big conspiracy theorist dude, but how much they can get away with on the field is head scratching sometimes.

[Redhook]

There is no denying that the last 1:30 of that game fell right into line with the national perception of the Bengals...you can't. If you do deny that then your blind! It doesn't matter what the Steelers did, the Bengals fell for all the baiting. It's not a cliché, it's truth. We are just debating in circles!!!


It's true Pacman fell for the bait, but that was the worst flag thrown in the history of the NFL. You just can't throw that flag. Anything he did or said to Porter in that instance should've been irrelevant since Porter wasn't supposed to be there in the first place instigating. The refs, for some crappy reason, overlooked that and went with the mighty Steelers.

[Redhook]

I'm not a big conspiracy theorist dude, but how much they can get away with on the field is head scratching sometimes.

I'm not either, at all. But, looking into it deeply this week after the game makes you realize the Bengals got screwed in that game. Im not saying they didn't screw up with the fumble and the stupid Burfict late-hit, or am I saying they should've won, but the non-calls on consistent concussion hits and their coaches getting away being with involved in the game makes it impossible to ignore.

As Bengals fans, we've perfected the art of losing. We can take it. We can lose with the best of them. All we want is a fair fight. That wasn't the case here. It was an unfair fight heavily in the Steelers favor.

[dubc47834]

It's true Pacman fell for the bait, but that was the worst flag thrown in the history of the NFL. You just can't throw that flag. Anything he did or said to Porter in that instance should've been irrelevant since Porter wasn't supposed to be there in the first place instigating. The refs, for some crappy reason, overlooked that and went with the mighty Steelers.

Pretty sure he was flagged for making contact with the ref. Doesn't matter what he said/did to Porter at that point. It was a horrible flag, one that probly shouldn't have been thrown. I think that was Pacman Jones past influencing the present...however wrong the flag was!

[Dom Heffner]

It's not dirty. It's hard-nosed. Because Pittsburgh is a steel driving midwestern gritty hard workin' lunchpail town, and its team reflects that.

That really is it.

[Hoosier Red]

It's sort of like being 80 years old, someone swipes your $5 million retirement fund and someone says, "Mr. Jones, you'll just to have to prepare better next time."

To use your contorted analogy, what should Mr. Jones do?

[bucksfan2]

I'm not either, at all. But, looking into it deeply this week after the game makes you realize the Bengals got screwed in that game. Im not saying they didn't screw up with the fumble and the stupid Burfict late-hit, or am I saying they should've won, but the non-calls on consistent concussion hits and their coaches getting away being with involved in the game makes it impossible to ignore.

As Bengals fans, we've perfected the art of losing. We can take it. We can lose with the best of them. All we want is a fair fight. That wasn't the case here. It was an unfair fight heavily in the Steelers favor.

Looking at the Burfict hit in slow mo looked terrible. It is clear that he connected with Brown's head, albeit with a shoulder or arm, and Brown went down. However when you look at it in real time, I don't exactly know what many people expected him to do. He was in position to make a play had Brown caught the ball. In slow mo it appears as if Burfict could have pulled up once he saw the ball glance off of Browns hands and not touch him. But in life time it was a bang, bang play, there is a split second between the time the ball glances off Browns hands and he is hit. Burfict can't exactly pull up because had Brown been able to avoid him, its a TD or he adds on another 10 yards. I don't understand the 3 game suspension for Burfict when a guy like Mike Mitchell has knocked out two Bengals in less than a year.

The Jones penalty still infuriates me. It never should have been thrown, it never should have come to that. Porter should not have been on the field, and the second Porter started jawing he should have been flagged. The national narrative has been that Jones and Burfict are thugs when in reality the Steelers were more penalized than the Bengals in their matchups, the Steelers had bounty allegations lobbied at them, and the Steelers had coaches antagonizing Bengals players.

[Hoosier Red]

I'm an idealist as much as the next guy, but we are talking about football players here, not the Physics Olympics. Great example of victim blaming, though.
I'm not sure what being an idealist has to do with anything. The Bengals were victims of bad officiating. But holding up Vontaze and Pacman's actions as principled stands against unfair officiating is simply ridiculous.

To read the posts here, Vontaze and Pacman were so incensed by the lack of fairness at the hands of the officials that they intentionally committed penalties to draw attention to the unfairness of it all.
A bold protest no doubt.

[dubc47834]

To use your contorted analogy, what should Mr. Jones do?

It's OK, he shouldn't have been flagged because he was provoked by Porter.

[traderumor]

I'm not sure what being an idealist has to do with anything. The Bengals were victims of bad officiating. But holding up Vontaze and Pacman's actions as principled stands against unfair officiating is simply ridiculous.

To read the posts here, Vontaze and Pacman were so incensed by the lack of fairness at the hands of the officials that they intentionally committed penalties to draw attention to the unfairness of it all.
A bold protest no doubt.The context was that I was responding to the "just walk away" tenor of the posts that I quoted, as if that was the only issue at hand. An idealist says things like that. I really haven't seen excusing the behavior, I have seen folks say that the reactions were responses to the overall lack of control in the game. I think you have taken a few posts and claimed that is the position of all those who look at the entirety of what occurred in that game, not just dismissing everything that happened prior to the fumble, and then whipping out the "same old Bungles" routine.

[Hoosier Red]

The context was that I was responding to the "just walk away" tenor of the posts that I quoted, as if that was the only issue at hand. An idealist says things like that. I really haven't seen excusing the behavior, I have seen folks say that the reactions were responses to the overall lack of control in the game. I think you have taken a few posts and claimed that is the position of all those who look at the entirety of what occurred in that game, not just dismissing everything that happened prior to the fumble, and then whipping out the "same old Bungles" routine.
I think you're misreading me. Obviously there were other issues involved. But the cold hard truth is that Jones only had control of one factor. Himself.Is it idealistic to suggest that players be held accountable for what they can control?

I'm not sure I understand the line you're drawing here.
What's the difference in your mind between "excusing the behavior" and saying that the "reactions were responses to the overall lack of control in the game?"

[Dom Heffner]

To use your contorted analogy, what should Mr. Jones do?

What shouldn't other people do to Mr Jones?

[Hoosier Red]

What shouldn't other people do to Mr Jones?

I agree. It sucks that the Bengals were having bad things done to them.

The NFL should not be so biased against the Bengals. It's not fair.

Feel better?

[traderumor]

I think you're misreading me. Obviously there were other issues involved. But the cold hard truth is that Jones only had control of one factor. Himself.Is it idealistic to suggest that players be held accountable for what they can control?

I'm not sure I understand the line you're drawing here.
What's the difference in your mind between "excusing the behavior" and saying that the "reactions were responses to the overall lack of control in the game?"

I'm a parent. You want chaos in your house and an out of control angry, bitter child? Only address the one who reacts, never confront the one who baits and sets the trap. Its called injustice. In fact, a wise judge will at times give a lighter penalty to the one who reacts than the baiter when it is painfully obvious that it occurred.

That is why, in the bigger picture, the Steelers were diabolical at the end of the game. The Porter trap was diabolical. They had nothing to lose...probably not making a 50 yarder in the weather, so hey Joey, go out there and stir things up. He probably didn't even need to be told. The entire game was a psychopathological display of bait and run, bait and run, or bait and whine.

The refs let it happen. The Steelers gameplanned it. I knew that was going to be a significant part of their strategy to beat the Bengals, especially under the Tomlin regime. That is what they do. They bait and whine, they blow people up and don't get penalized. Why? Every drama needs a villain. People tune in to watch the Steelers to see the villain go down. That is why it became painfully obvious Saturday that the league has devolved into Big Time Wrestling. Fake matches with staged outcomes.

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I agree. It sucks that the Bengals were having bad things done to them.

The NFL should not be so biased against the Bengals. It's not fair.

Feel better?This is rude and condescending.

[Dom Heffner]

I agree. It sucks that the Bengals were having bad things done to them.

The NFL should not be so biased against the Bengals. It's not fair.

Feel better?

Wooooooooooooooooft.

Right over your head.

Didn't keep you from going below the belt.

[Dom Heffner]

I'm a parent. You want chaos in your house and an out of control angry, bitter child? Only address the one who reacts, never confront the one who baits and sets the trap. Its called injustice. In fact, a wise judge will at times give a lighter penalty to the one who reacts than the baiter when it is painfully obvious that it occurred.

That is why, in the bigger picture, the Steelers were diabolical at the end of the game. The Porter trap was diabolical. They had nothing to lose...probably not making a 50 yarder in the weather, so hey Joey, go out there and stir things up. He probably didn't even need to be told. The entire game was a psychopathological display of bait and run, bait and run, or bait and whine.

The refs let it happen. The Steelers gameplanned it. I knew that was going to be a significant part of their strategy to beat the Bengals, especially under the Tomlin regime. That is what they do. They bait and whine, they blow people up and don't get penalized. Why? Every drama needs a villain. People tune in to watch the Steelers to see the villain go down. That is why it became painfully obvious Saturday that the league has devolved into Big Time Wrestling. Fake matches with staged outcomes.

- - - Updated - - -

This is rude and condescending.

Yes. It was. Bingo.

Thank you.

[wolfboy]

I agree. It sucks that the Bengals were having bad things done to them.

The NFL should not be so biased against the Bengals. It's not fair.

Feel better?

You know, just like the slow motion version of the Burfict hit versus the real time Burfict hit, the way you're viewing it matters. Yes, when you isolate the Jones flag, it's easy to point to the fans with the tinfoil hats and chuckle under your breath. But taken in the context of YEARS of the same thing from the Steelers - and not just the Bengals complaining about it - it doesn't sound as unreasonable when someone says the Steelers might get preferential treatment. Is it outrageous to say Votto gets a bigger strike zone than other players? Does that mean there's a grand conspiracy in place? No. But we are saying there's a level of implicit bias in the officials. Most times it's just enough fodder for fans to gripe about for a few days after. On Saturday, it arguably cost the Bengals a game. That is the context in which Bengals fans are outraged about how this whole thing went down.

[Dom Heffner]

You know, just like the slow motion version of the Burfict hit versus the real time Burfict hit, the way you're viewing it matters. Yes, when you isolate the Jones flag, it's easy to point to the fans with the tinfoil hats and chuckle under your breath. But taken in the context of YEARS of the same thing from the Steelers - and not just the Bengals complaining about it - it doesn't sound as unreasonable when someone says the Steelers might get preferential treatment. Is it outrageous to say Votto gets a bigger strike zone than other players? Does that mean there's a grand conspiracy in place? No. But we are saying there's a level of implicit bias in the officials. Most times it's just enough fodder for fans to gripe about for a few days after. On Saturday, it arguably cost the Bengals a game. That is the context in which Bengals fans are outraged about how this whole thing went down.

You are right and it's not fair.

Do you feel better cupcake?

HAHAHAHAHA.

Oh my God. I just midwesterned you. I'm sorry.

[Hoosier Red]

Wooooooooooooooooft.

Right over your head.

Didn't keep you from going below the belt.

Apologies.
Wasn't my intent to come off as condescending.

We're obviously talking about two different things.
You and Traderumor are talking about the NFL as a whole and the Referees in that game in particular.
I'm talking about the Bengals actions.

[Hoosier Red]

You know, just like the slow motion version of the Burfict hit versus the real time Burfict hit, the way you're viewing it matters. Yes, when you isolate the Jones flag, it's easy to point to the fans with the tinfoil hats and chuckle under your breath. But taken in the context of YEARS of the same thing from the Steelers - and not just the Bengals complaining about it - it doesn't sound as unreasonable when someone says the Steelers might get preferential treatment. Is it outrageous to say Votto gets a bigger strike zone than other players? Does that mean there's a grand conspiracy in place? No. But we are saying there's a level of implicit bias in the officials. Most times it's just enough fodder for fans to gripe about for a few days after. On Saturday, it arguably cost the Bengals a game. That is the context in which Bengals fans are outraged about how this whole thing went down.

I hear you. And I share that outrage.
But that doesn't excuse or explain either of the two fifteen yard penalties which demonstrably DID cost the Bengals the game.

Do I think it's fair? Of course not. But that unfairness did not cause Vontaze and Pacman to commit the penalties they did. And by committing those penalties, they weakened their case.

[dubc47834]

I'm a parent. You want chaos in your house and an out of control angry, bitter child? Only address the one who reacts, never confront the one who baits and sets the trap. Its called injustice. In fact, a wise judge will at times give a lighter penalty to the one who reacts than the baiter when it is painfully obvious that it occurred.

That is why, in the bigger picture, the Steelers were diabolical at the end of the game. The Porter trap was diabolical. They had nothing to lose...probably not making a 50 yarder in the weather, so hey Joey, go out there and stir things up. He probably didn't even need to be told. The entire game was a psychopathological display of bait and run, bait and run, or bait and whine.

The refs let it happen. The Steelers gameplanned it. I knew that was going to be a significant part of their strategy to beat the Bengals, especially under the Tomlin regime. That is what they do. They bait and whine, they blow people up and don't get penalized. Why? Every drama needs a villain. People tune in to watch the Steelers to see the villain go down. That is why it became painfully obvious Saturday that the league has devolved into Big Time Wrestling. Fake matches with staged outcomes.

- - - Updated - - -

This is rude and condescending.

I'm outa here on this one before I get another talking to from mom and dad about other peoples feelings!

This is what's wrong with America now days...stuff like this hurts peoples feelings!!!
:bang::angry:

[Hoosier Red]

I'm a parent. You want chaos in your house and an out of control angry, bitter child? Only address the one who reacts, never confront the one who baits and sets the trap. Its called injustice. In fact, a wise judge will at times give a lighter penalty to the one who reacts than the baiter when it is painfully obvious that it occurred.

That is why, in the bigger picture, the Steelers were diabolical at the end of the game. The Porter trap was diabolical. They had nothing to lose...probably not making a 50 yarder in the weather, so hey Joey, go out there and stir things up. He probably didn't even need to be told. The entire game was a psychopathological display of bait and run, bait and run, or bait and whine. .

Psychopathological?
I agree that this was all part of the Steelers game plan. That makes it all the more frustrating that the Bengals were 90 seconds away from defeating it, but ultimately couldn't help themselves.

[Hoosier Red]

You know, just like the slow motion version of the Burfict hit versus the real time Burfict hit, the way you're viewing it matters. Yes, when you isolate the Jones flag, it's easy to point to the fans with the tinfoil hats and chuckle under your breath. But taken in the context of YEARS of the same thing from the Steelers - and not just the Bengals complaining about it - it doesn't sound as unreasonable when someone says the Steelers might get preferential treatment. Is it outrageous to say Votto gets a bigger strike zone than other players? Does that mean there's a grand conspiracy in place? No. But we are saying there's a level of implicit bias in the officials. Most times it's just enough fodder for fans to gripe about for a few days after. On Saturday, it arguably cost the Bengals a game. That is the context in which Bengals fans are outraged about how this whole thing went down.

FWIW, I don't think it's outrageous at all to suggest that the Steelers receive preferential treatment. I agree they do. It sucks. It is unfair.

[traderumor]

I'm outa here on this one before I get another talking to from mom and dad about other peoples feelings!

This is what's wrong with America now days...stuff like this hurts peoples feelings!!!
:bang::angry:You mean your parents expect you to respect other people, even those with whom you disagree? Good for them.

[Dom Heffner]

I hear you. And I share that outrage.
But that doesn't excuse or explain either of the two fifteen yard penalties which demonstrably DID cost the Bengals the game.

Do I think it's fair? Of course not. But that unfairness did not cause Vontaze and Pacman to commit the penalties they did. And by committing those penalties, they weakened their case.

The win probability with Jones' penalty took the Steelers from something like 40% to 75%. One could argue if Porter is called it offsets that.

As well, the fact that you keep harping on our guys and not the other guys, shows me you aren't taking the conversation seriously.

[wolfboy]

I hear you. And I share that outrage.
But that doesn't excuse or explain either of the two fifteen yard penalties which demonstrably DID cost the Bengals the game.

Do I think it's fair? Of course not. But that unfairness did not cause Vontaze and Pacman to commit the penalties they did. And by committing those penalties, they weakened their case.

You're right. Nothing absolves the Bengals of their own actions. But being outraged at the way the team was treated (especially in comparison to the Steelers) is not akin to a tinfoil hat conspiracy (which you haven't suggested but others have).

[traderumor]

.

Psychopathological?
I agree that this was all part of the Steelers game plan. That makes it all the more frustrating that the Bengals were 90 seconds away from defeating it, but ultimately couldn't help themselves.

I meant psychopathic. And making that a part of their game plan is good evidence of it.

[Hoosier Red]

The win probability with Jones' penalty took the Steelers from something like 40% to 75%. One could argue if Porter is called it offsets that.

As well, the fact that you keep harping on our guys and not the other guys, shows me you aren't taking the conversation seriously.

I guess it depends on what the point of the conversation is.
Porter should have been flagged for instigating, I agree wholeheartedly.
It sucks and is unfair that he wasn't.

[Redsfaithful]

But taken in the context of YEARS of the same thing from the Steelers - and not just the Bengals complaining about it - it doesn't sound as unreasonable when someone says the Steelers might get preferential treatment.

This is what fans of other teams in the thread are refusing to understand. None of this happened in a vacuum.

[Hoosier Red]

You're right. Nothing absolves the Bengals of their own actions. But being outraged at the way the team was treated (especially in comparison to the Steelers) is not akin to a tinfoil hat conspiracy (which you haven't suggested but others have).

No I agree. I'm not sure what I said that suggested otherwise.

[dubc47834]

You mean your parents expect you to respect other people, even those with whom you disagree? Good for them.

I have no issues with respecting other people and their opinions. My issue is when I'm belittled because I don't agree with the majority, in this case Bengals fans! People say it's not personal...it's not until you disagree with them. Then they call you an idiot and say you can't see stuff, then complain about rude and condescending and how you're raised...LOL!!! It's really came from the same 2-3 posters in this thread. I'm cool with a good debate, hell I've been know to have my mind changed by a good debate.

HAVE A GOOD DAY!!!!

[Redsfaithful]

I have no issues with respecting other people and their opinions. My issue is when I'm belittled because I don't agree with the majority, in this case Bengals fans!


You came in and called Bengals fans butthurt first post. You should have bowed out then, you've only further reinforced that you don't understand the dynamics or history or anything really.

Other people have disagreed with Bengals fans in the thread and been treated differently. I'm sort of surprised you aren't a Steelers fan - you act like it.

Don't worry, I'm sure the Colts will be relevant again one of these years. Maybe. With that owner/GM/coach trio maybe not.

[dubc47834]

You came in and called Bengals fans butthurt first post. You should have bowed out then, you've only further reinforced that you don't understand the dynamics or history or anything really.

Other people have disagreed with Bengals fans in the thread and been treated differently. I'm sort of surprised you aren't a Steelers fan - you act like it.

Don't worry, I'm sure the Colts will be relevant again one of these years. Maybe. With that owner/GM/coach trio maybe not.

Shortly after that post I also said that wasn't the best of things to say also. No name calling, no questioning someone's upbringing. Others in this thread have been called idiots, so not sure where that came from. That's fine, as you put it, I'm just gonna bow out now!!!

Oh, I'm not gonna worry. My Colts will be relevant again soon, probably before the Bengals win a playoff game. With this trio we made the AFC Championship game just last season, where has the Bengals trio got them? 1st round playoff exits year after year.

:wave::wave::wave:

[Bob Sheed]

Don't worry, I'm sure the Colts will be relevant again one of these years. Maybe. With that owner/GM/coach trio maybe not.

The Colts were nationally relevant in a positive manner when they had Peyton Manning. Before that, you have to go back to the Baltimore Colts to even have a conversation there.

The Bengals have been nationally relevant in positive manner exactly one year. 1988. Ickey Shuffle was the icing, and their no-huddle was the cake. after that, you have the lost decade which was more like 12 or 13 years. Then, even when they started to get good again, the whole team was painted as thugs. Until recently, the media dropped the thug mantra and it was "they are good but can't ever close it out." Now I guess we're back to the "thug" mantra. :rolleyes:

Meanwhile, the Steelers have been pushing the envelope of "dirty," under the guise of "gritty," for 30 years. Nothing here will ever change, I get that. But never was the double standard on display more, than last Saturday night, and it isn't just Bengals fans that noticed the unequal treatment and perception.

That's why I think the Bengals should just go ahead and embrace the Steeler way of thinking, but take it to the next level. 30 yards of penalties just took the Steelers within FG range? Fine. Injure their kicker on the next play, get ejected and fined, and let their punter miss the FG as time expires and the Bengals win the game. If the Punter seems like he might make it? Blindside him too. And why?

Because all they can do is fine and suspend players for dirty play. The team still gets the win and advances, and when the dust settles, winning cures all. Just ask the Steelers. Again, that's been their M.O. for 30+ years.

[Redsfaithful]

Shortly after that post I also said that wasn't the best of things to say also. No name calling, no questioning someone's upbringing. Others in this thread have been called idiots, so not sure where that came from. That's fine, as you put it, I'm just gonna bow out now!!!

Oh, I'm not gonna worry. My Colts will be relevant again soon, probably before the Bengals win a playoff game. With this trio we made the AFC Championship game just last season, where has the Bengals trio got them? 1st round playoff exits year after year.

:wave::wave::wave:

The Bengals don't have a trio!

Luck is good enough to keep them relevant, I'm sure at some point they will surround him with enough to win a Super Bowl. Not going to happen anytime soon though I don't think, that's an ugly roster. Old to boot.

[traderumor]

Shortly after that post I also said that wasn't the best of things to say also. No name calling, no questioning someone's upbringing. Others in this thread have been called idiots, so not sure where that came from. That's fine, as you put it, I'm just gonna bow out now!!!

Oh, I'm not gonna worry. My Colts will be relevant again soon, probably before the Bengals win a playoff game. With this trio we made the AFC Championship game just last season, where has the Bengals trio got them? 1st round playoff exits year after year.

:wave::wave::wave:
This is a good example of the Steelers ways...come in, talk some crap, then wonder why anyone gets upset and pushes back.

[SteelSD]

Other people have disagreed with Bengals fans in the thread and been treated differently.

Really? Did I miss a page?


I'm sort of surprised you aren't a Steelers fan - you act like it.

Nope, guess not.

[SteelSD]

What shouldn't other people do to Mr Jones?

Give him an IQ test or quiz him on current events and coach names.

[jojo]

This is a good example of the Steelers ways...come in, talk some crap, then wonder why anyone gets upset and pushes back.

This is a good example of redszone group think mentality-behave poorly in response to a differing opinion and act like the person expressing it had it coming because the only way someone could disagree is if they either trolling, aren't true fans, or lets face it, since they had it coming, they're probably both.

[The Operator]

This is a good example of redszone group think mentality-behave poorly in response to a differing opinion and act like the person expressing it had it coming because the only way someone could disagree is if they either trolling, aren't true fans, or lets face it, since they had it coming, they're probably both.Agreed. Traderumor is tarnishing his (as well as Redszone's in general) brand severely with posts like this.

Thank god we have unbiased observers with no reason to cause problems here to point out the hypocrisy.

[jojo]

Agreed. Traderumor is tarnishing his (as well as Redszone's in general) brand severely with posts like this.

Thank god we have unbiased observers with no reason to cause problems here to point out the hypocrisy.

You are very lucky, if not inflicted with the overly sensitive redszone gene.

[wolfboy]

Agreed. Traderumor is tarnishing his (as well as Redszone's in general) brand severely with posts like this.

Thank god we have unbiased observers with no reason to cause problems here to point out the hypocrisy.

jojo's has been called by the redszone gods to bear witness and guide the flock back when it wanders astray.

[jojo]

jojo's has been called by the redszone gods to bear witness and guide the flock back when it wanders astray.

Redszone is not divinely inspired. Also is "bear witness" implying violence against a messenger (i.e. mauling a poster)? I don't get the metaphor.

[Dom Heffner]

This is a good example of redszone group think mentality-behave poorly in response to a differing opinion and act like the person expressing it had it coming because the only way someone could disagree is if they either trolling, aren't true fans, or lets face it, since they had it coming, they're probably both.

Love the whole persona- the avatar, the attitude. It's cool.

Too bad you never really say anything.

I've heard it from others- you just post stuff where if you look at it closely, there are no points being made, just a sort of weird trash talk where you make no argument and put the other guy down with a personal attack complaining that they have no argument.

You are the most important ingredient away from being a force on here.

[The Operator]

It has begun!


Bengals Fan Stock Prices Plummet Amid Online Homerism Allegations

Cincinnati, OH - It was a crazy day on Wall Street as share prices of Dom Heffner, Inc. (NASDAQ: DHI), Wolfboy, LLC. (NASDAQ: WBL), and Traderumor, Lmtd. (NASDAQ: TMI) fell a shocking 93%, 84%, and 72%, respectively, amid allegations of homerism and favoritism on the far-left liberal website Redszone.com.

While Redszone.com mostly serves as a political Think Tank for its roughly 98% socialist member population, it does have two small and rarely trafficked sub-forums dedicated to discussing Major League Baseball's Cincinnati Reds and the NFL's Cincinnati Bengals. It was after a crushing defeat in which the gritty, hard fighting Pittsburgh Steelers defeated the dirty and thuggish Bengals in an all-time epic battle of Good vs. Evil that the online postings in question began to appear.

Sour Bengals fans left their political aspirations aside for one night and focused on a tin-foil hat conspiracy in which The NFL's referees may not have fairly called the game between the two teams. Devout Socialist and all-around philanderer Dom Heffner called into question the fact that Pittsburgh's Ryan Shazier supposedly "lowered the crown of his helmet" before tackling drug kingpin Giovani Bernard and ultimately knocking him out of the game.

Mr. Heffner as well as fellow n'er-do-wells Traderumor, Wolfboy and The Operator (A Privately Held Corporation) noted that while Shazier's hit did not draw a flag despite being helmet to helmet, a subsequent hit made by convicted arsonist Vontaze Burfict drew a flag that ultimately put The Steelers within a 50-yard field goal of winning. They became further infuriated when Adam Jones drew a fifteen yard penalty for beating Steelers linebacker coach and local Youth Pastor Joey Porter over the head with a club after Mr. Porter was understandably checking in and making sure everyone inside The Bengas huddle was okay.

They also took exception to Pittsburgh's offensive line coach and noted enthusiast of long hair, Mike Munchak, made a point to compliment Bengals safety Reggie Nelson's flowing locks, exclaiming "You must let me photograph you!" before jokingly tugging on his hair in a playful manner. Munchak was subsequently flagged for the play, but Bengals fans still got up in arms over it. They even pointed to a years-old incident where Steelers coach Mike Tomlin inadvertantly appeared to attempt to trip Baltimore Raven kick returner Jacoby Jones while sprinting up the sideline exclaiming "Heck of a nice return, buddy! I'd love to have a gritty, hard fighting player like you on my squad some day!".

Despite warnings from concerned and unbiased onlookers such as "jojo" who were worried that these men would not only tarnish their own brands, but also that of Bengals fans and the franchise as a whole - they continued with their shocking and hurtful allegations toward the NFL, their officials, and Pittsburgh's Steelers. These sentiments were then echoed by members going by the name of Redsfaithful (an obvious ode to Communism), Kingspoint, and a Mr. Robert Sheed, an apparent CEO of a Custodial Engineering Firm. At this point the movement was irreversible.

Upon news of the financial implications of his reckless actions, Dom Heffner made a list of demands and took 3 hostages but thankfully they all managed to escape, as he did not own a gun due to his un-American lifestyle. The rest of these men are apparently camped out in a wilderness commune, where they made a video threatening to boycott the NFL if their demands aren't met. They ended their tirade with a cryptic warning of "We'll see you in Pittsburgh... with picket signs!".

Bengals owner Mike Brown is reportedly unconsolable at the damage his team's brand has taken due to the actions of these men. He opined "I had plans... I was going to make Marvin the GM, Hue was to become Head Coach. But what does it all matter now?". Mr. Brown has not been seen since being spotted leaving the parking lot of Paul Brown Stadium in his 1991 silver Chevy Lumina on Monday evening. If anyone sees or contacts Mr. Brown, please notify the authorites. He should be considered wealthy and stubborn.

We will continue to report on this situation as new details emerge.

See Also: "Cooking with Magic Mitt Beans: The Perfect Conservative Casserole"

[Dom Heffner]

Give him an IQ test or quiz him on current events and coach names.

The intellectual Steelers fan. Trust me, Steel, you aren't their target market.

Honest question- do you own any Steelers jerseys?

[Redsfaithful]

Post of the year and it's only January 13.

[jojo]

Love the whole persona- the avatar, the attitude. It's cool.

Too bad you never really say anything.

I've heard it from others- you just post stuff where if you look at it closely, there are no points being made, just a sort of weird trash talk where you make no argument and put the other guy down with a personal attack complaining that they have no argument.

You are the most important ingredient away from being a force on here.

Total Shenanigans.

Thank you for your critique though-it's been given the exact attention and thought that it deserved. But, frankly, I'm more interested in your clear and heart-felt fixation on Steel's potty habits and am anxiously awaiting another update from you on the matter. Now there's quality cooking.

[BluegrassRedleg]

What happened Saturday was actually the perfect example of the faculty only punishing one of two kids who got into a fight.

And mostly because of some bias towards a side.

The Steelers had about 150 yards of penalties, did they not? That's some AMAZING bias. Not to mention AJ's TD pass to AJ for the go-ahead score had a clear false start that went uncalled.

Stop blaming others for the collapse. That's a win -- PERIOD -- if Burfict and Pacman just don't eff it up.

[BluegrassRedleg]

In the NFL, choosing #2 isn't a realistic, meaningful option. What has turned me off of football over the last decade, is that, after watching a game, I rarely, if ever, come away with the feeling that the best team won. Most games are decided on how poorly trained refs interpret a poorly written rule book.

Play hard, and by the rules doesn't exist, because no one understands the rules, especially the refs.

That is why so many Bengal fans are so upset, not because they think the refs blew the game for them, but because the game revealed that NFL games are inherently unfair.

You've actually touched on something here that I think is at the heart of a lot of the problems. They've added more and more rules over the years out alleged safety concerns (i.e., lawsuit protection and it's muddled what is catch, what is a fumble, what is a runner/defenseless receiver. I don't think the officials have any clue what the league wants. You heard two of them during the broadcast say firmly that Shazier's hit on Bernard was not a penalty. Then you heard several others in the aftermath say it was. You've got yet another faction that says, "Well, maybe it's a flag by the letter of the law, but it's never called on running plays because it's too difficult to discern."

Have we made the game too difficult to be officiated fairly?

[The Operator]

Dom Heffner better shape up immediately. He's been admonished with a large, bold word in red font. This is getting really serious.

What's next, an internet meme? A rolling eyes emoji? Frankly I hope he comes to his senses and we don't have to find out.

[jojo]

The Steelers had about 150 yards of penalties, did they not? That's some AMAZING bias. Not to mention AJ's TD pass to AJ for the go-ahead score had a clear false start that went uncalled.

Stop blaming others for the collapse. That's a win -- PERIOD -- if Burfict and Pacman just don't eff it up.

Literally this narrative whereby the saintly Bengals were once again victimized by an evil Pittsburgian empire propped up by a biased network and a league that is a subsidiary of the WWE is pretty hilarious. The Bengals through their own actions provided all of the ammunition needed to play into the bungle catcalls from steeler fans and allow unbiased fans across the nation to characterize the game as a major choke job and the organisation as dirty and stupid. All the vitriole aimed at any target other than the bengals organization is badly misspent.

Hate the steelers? Fine. Who cares? But it was the bengals who wrote the story and deserve credit for the plot. Don't like the story? Quit buying the books. Rewriting reality seems kind of silly.

[jojo]

Dom Heffner better shape up immediately. He's been admonished with a large, bold word in red font. This is getting really serious.

What's next, an internet meme? A rolling eyes emoji? Frankly I hope he comes to his senses and we don't have to find out.

The real travesty is that it's a distraction from discussing the merits of Steel's potty habits. As a leading expert on quality argumentation, he needs to focus. That's all im saying. Oh the burden of being a living rubric.

[dabvu2498]

But it was the bengals who wrote the story and deserve credit for the plot.

And that's the entire point Bengals fans are trying to make. The Bengals had a co-author that didn't get the credit they deserve.

[Bob Sheed]

Looking back to the Burfict hit after the dust settles. It wasn't an uncatchable ball. Brown did get his hand on it. He got alligator arms but that might have been because of Burfict in his peripheral vision. Brown probably wouldn't have caught it, but he might have, if he would have jumped. Which he might have done, if Burfict didn't lay him out. And if Brown were allowed to jump and catch the ball, he may very well go to the house.

Point being, the choice at that second in time for Burfict might have been:
1. Deliver the hit on Brown, take the 15 yard penalty
or
2. Throw yourself out of the way at the last second to avoid contact, as Brown jumps up and takes it to the house, game over.

If this was indeed the fork in the road, then I think Burfict made the right choice.

[jojo]

And that's the entire point Bengals fans are trying to make. The Bengals had a co-author that didn't get the credit they deserve.

And it's not a valid point. Hence the point that it's not a valid point.

Fumble. Implosion. No one was holding a firearm at anyone making it happen. Ummm, it's the refs! It's nfl! It's the network! Ummm...no. It wasn't even the Steelers.

[jojo]

Looking back to the Burfict hit after the dust settles. It wasn't an uncatchable ball. Brown did get his hand on it. He got alligator arms but that might have been because of Burfict in his peripheral vision. Brown probably wouldn't have caught it, but he might have, if he would have jumped. Which he might have done, if Burfict didn't lay him out. And if Brown were allowed to jump and catch the ball, he may very well go to the house.

Point being, the choice at that second in time for Burfict might have been:
1. Deliver the hit on Brown, take the 15 yard penalty
or
2. Throw yourself out of the way at the last second to avoid contact, as Brown jumps up and takes it to the house, game over.

If this was indeed the fork in the road, then I think Burfict made the right choice.

You also think Burflict should've had a 6 inch spike welded on the crown of his helmet so that the Steelers would've been taught a lesson once and for all.

[wolfboy]

You've actually touched on something here that I think is at the heart of a lot of the problems. They've added more and more rules over the years out alleged safety concerns (i.e., lawsuit protection and it's muddled what is catch, what is a fumble, what is a runner/defenseless receiver. I don't think the officials have any clue what the league wants. You heard two of them during the broadcast say firmly that Shazier's hit on Bernard was not a penalty. Then you heard several others in the aftermath say it was. You've got yet another faction that says, "Well, maybe it's a flag by the letter of the law, but it's never called on running plays because it's too difficult to discern."

Have we made the game too difficult to be officiated fairly?

When the biggest question throughout the season is "what constitutes a catch," then the answer has to be a resounding yes.

[RedTeamGo!]

It has begun!

Oh my god this is gold.

[wolfboy]

You also think Burflict should've had a 6 inch spike welded on the crown of his helmet so that the Steelers would've been taught a lesson once and for all.

Literally Kaiser Wilhelm
10250

[traderumor]

I think the biggest thing to come out of all this is that me and Dom have become a united front after a year of petty bickering over the presence of the Big Bad Wolf, becoming heads of a two man militia, now known as "Tarnished Brands."

[dubc47834]

Looking back to the Burfict hit after the dust settles. It wasn't an uncatchable ball. Brown did get his hand on it. He got alligator arms but that might have been because of Burfict in his peripheral vision. Brown probably wouldn't have caught it, but he might have, if he would have jumped. Which he might have done, if Burfict didn't lay him out. And if Brown were allowed to jump and catch the ball, he may very well go to the house.

Point being, the choice at that second in time for Burfict might have been:
1. Deliver the hit on Brown, take the 15 yard penalty
or
2. Throw yourself out of the way at the last second to avoid contact, as Brown jumps up and takes it to the house, game over.

If this was indeed the fork in the road, then I think Burfict made the right choice.

What do you mean if he would have jumped, he did jump. He was hit after he came down, not before he jumped as you make it sound. The video in the link proves that. The rest of your point on being a catchable ball I agree with.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tfLncD3pGM

[Bob Sheed]

You also think Burflict should've had a 6 inch spike welded on the crown of his helmet so that the Steelers would've been taught a lesson once and for all.

No, I just think that it isn't enough to just match the Steelers dirtiness. Because if they just do that, then all things are equal, except that the Steelers will get the calls.

The Bengals can't just match, they need to exceed. So, by Steelers logic, the 6 inch spike would be just fine as long as the refs don't call it.

[wolfboy]

I think the biggest thing to come out of all this is that me and Dom have become a united front after a year of petty bickering over the presence of the Big Bad Wolf, becoming heads of a two man militia, now known as "Tarnished Brands."

Not to go all hipster on you, but I tarnished my personal brand, the brand of Bengals fans, and the brand of this board in the last thread......before it was cool. :cool:

[jojo]

I think the biggest thing to come out of all this is that me and Dom have become a united front after a year of petty bickering over the presence of the Big Bad Wolf, becoming heads of a two man militia, now known as "Tarnished Brands."

Actually its the Potty break brand of two, though it's not clear if the fixation is on #1 or #2.

- - - Updated - - -


Not to go all hipster on you, but I tarnished my personal brand, the brand of Bengals fans, and the brand of this board in the last thread......before it was cool. :cool:

You really can't claim ownership on the embarrassment that is these two threads. You've had lots of help. Or maybe the better vernacular is loads of help.

[traderumor]

No, I just think that it isn't enough to just match the Steelers dirtiness. Because if they just do that, then all things are equal, except that the Steelers will get the calls.

The Bengals can't just match, they need to exceed. So, by Steelers logic, the 6 inch spike would be just fine as long as the refs don't call it.

Yea, but he needs a facemask on that for his own protection. With a visor to avoid the Doinkster lineman in battle.

[traderumor]

Not to go all hipster on you, but I tarnished my personal brand, the brand of Bengals fans, and the brand of this board in the last thread......before it was cool. :cool:

It's all about the timing.

[westofyou]

Sports chart boards, where embarrassment and brand sullying really don't matter at all.

[jojo]

Sports chart boards, where embarrassment and brand sullying really don't matter at all.

Apparently sullying seems something to worry about though. Actually, maybe it's that sullying is expected since using the potty is so offensive?

Sullying, yep, it definitely matters.

[Yachtzee]

Literally Kaiser Wilhelm
10250

Gott erhalte Tez den Kaiser, unsern guten Kaiser Tez!

[jojo]

That's the kind of thinking that gave us the Nazis.

[RiverRat13]

Oh, the irony:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/01/13/steelers-ol-says-league-should-look-at-broncos-bounty/

[Redsfaithful]

I've actually been surprised that there has been media narrative focused a lot on the Steelers actions and the missed calls against the Bengals this week. I thought there would be literally zero talk.

- - - Updated - - -


Oh, the irony:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/01/13/steelers-ol-says-league-should-look-at-broncos-bounty/

The St. Louis Cardinals of the NFL. The fact that I have to deal with both of these teams in relation to my favorite teams is so, so tiring.

[gonelong]

And it's not a valid point. Hence the point that it's not a valid point.

Fumble. Implosion. No one was holding a firearm at anyone making it happen. Ummm, it's the refs! It's nfl! It's the network! Ummm...no. It wasn't even the Steelers.

You are focusing on this game. This has been happening for years, decades. Nobody formed this opinion on this game alone.

Apparently you haven't read the previous 30 chapters of this saga. Until you understand how we got here, you opinion on the matter isn't going to be valued.

Honest question, do you know who Keith Gary is?

GL

[westofyou]

You are focusing on this game. This has been happening for years, decades. Nobody formed this opinion on this game alone.

Apparently you haven't read the previous 30 chapters of this saga. Until you understand how we got here, you opinion on the matter isn't going to be valued.

Honest question, do you know who Keith Gary is?

GL

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/2016/01/07/blood-sweat-and-contempt-top-10-bengals-steelers-games/78378402/

[wolfboy]

Gott erhalte Tez den Kaiser, unsern guten Kaiser Tez!

They should play this over the PA at Bengals games.

[traderumor]

Oh, the irony:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/01/13/steelers-ol-says-league-should-look-at-broncos-bounty/

They just keep on proving my point. Foster is the same one who laid out the spitting claims. We have a saying around my house when a smelly old fart is first spoken of: "the smeller's the feller."

Oh, and Ben's shoulder ligaments may be torn, I haven't seen that mentioned. So, the painkillers theory is fully in play. The only thing missing at this point is the involvement of organized crime.

[Redsfaithful]

They will pump some horse tranquilizers into Ben and he'll be raring to go. Women of Denver look out.

[Dom Heffner]

They will pump some horse tranquilizers into Ben and he'll be raring to go. Women of Denver look out.

With one bad shoulder he may have to abandon the missionary.

[SteelSD]

The intellectual Steelers fan. Trust me, Steel, you aren't their target market.

Honest question- do you own any Steelers jerseys?

Yes, I do and, no, you can't borrow one from me to wear on Sunday.

[jojo]

You are focusing on this game. This has been happening for years, decades. Nobody formed this opinion on this game alone.

Apparently you haven't read the previous 30 chapters of this saga. Until you understand how we got here, you opinion on the matter isn't going to be valued.

Honest question, do you know who Keith Gary is?

GL

Just a few points:

It doesn't matter if the Steelers roster was comprised of nothing but pedophiles who clubbed baby seals for fun during the off season and this has been the character of their organization for three decades with each year being a chapter in the ongoing saga, the fact and objective reality is that no one was holding a firearm at anyone making it happen, it wasn't the refs, it wasn't the nfl, it wasn't the secret desires of network television, it wasn't even the Steelers. It was fumble, implosion, bengalia.

It doesn't matter if anyone values my opinion on the matter (seriously, its absolutely irrelevant), the fact and objective reality is that no one was holding a firearm at anyone making it happen, it wasn't the refs, it wasn't the nfl, it wasn't the secret desires of network television, it wasn't even the Steelers. It was fumble, implosion, bengalia.

The fact and objective reality is that no one was holding a firearm at anyone making it happen, it wasn't the refs, it wasn't the nfl, it wasn't the secret desires of network television, it wasn't even the Steelers. It was fumble, implosion, bengalia.

Anything that suggests otherwise is talking about something other than the specific game at hand, which frankly was consistent with another thread in those thirty chapters-25 years without a playoff win and the bengals yet again found another remarkably unique way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory and this time it was in a fashion where no matter what the Steelers' reputation might be, the Bengals look like the worse culprits.

[traderumor]

With one bad shoulder he may have to abandon the missionary.Religion talk needs to be handled on the political forum.

[gonelong]

Just a few points:

It doesn't matter if the Steelers roster was comprised of nothing but pedophiles who clubbed baby seals for fun during the off season and this has been the character of their organization for three decades with each year being a chapter in the ongoing saga, the fact and objective reality is that no one was holding a firearm at anyone making it happen, it wasn't the refs, it wasn't the nfl, it wasn't the secret desires of network television, it wasn't even the Steelers. It was fumble, implosion, bengalia.

It doesn't matter if anyone values my opinion on the matter (seriously, its absolutely irrelevant), the fact and objective reality is that no one was holding a firearm at anyone making it happen, it wasn't the refs, it wasn't the nfl, it wasn't the secret desires of network television, it wasn't even the Steelers. It was fumble, implosion, bengalia.

The fact and objective reality is that no one was holding a firearm at anyone making it happen, it wasn't the refs, it wasn't the nfl, it wasn't the secret desires of network television, it wasn't even the Steelers. It was fumble, implosion, bengalia.

Anything that suggests otherwise is talking about something other than the specific game at hand, which frankly was consistent with another thread in those thirty chapters-25 years without a playoff win and the bengals yet again found another remarkably unique way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory and this time it was in a fashion where no matter what the Steelers' reputation might be, the Bengals look like the worse culprits.

You really aren't following. Let me know when you catch up.

GL

[WVRed]

They will pump some horse tranquilizers into Ben and he'll be raring to go. Women of Denver look out.

Big Ben Warning already in effect.

[jojo]

You really aren't following. Let me know when you catch up.

GL

I get it. You're still fuming because the Canaanites had Gaza stolen from them by the Egyptians. How about we fast forward a couple dozen centuries and focus on what actually happened in the game rather than filter reality through an ancient filter?

[The Operator]

Joe Joe is right, you guys.

I think it's high time we all man up and accept our personal responsibility in this as well as indict The Bengals for their thuggish attitudes.

[WrongVerb]

Joe Joe is right, you guys.

I think it's high time we all man up and accept our personal responsibility in this as well as indict The Bengals for their thuggish attitudes.

I've said it before, and I say this as a Bengals fan. I think a lot of this blaming the Steelers stuff has to do with the frustration we all feel about Hill's physical error and Jones' mental error. The most physically talented team on the field didn't win on Saturday. But the best physical+mental team did.

[jojo]

Joe Joe is right, you guys.

I think it's high time we all man up and accept our personal responsibility in this as well as indict The Bengals for their thuggish attitudes.

You do realize that the performance of the bengals has absolutely nothing to do with your sense of self in the sense that you have absolutely nothing to do with their performance? Calling the bengals' performance what it was-a fumble, implosion and bengalia on the other hand then arguing it not only was tantamount to them kicking themselves in the nads but it was also embarrassing and deserving of criticism? Ummm, that's just calling a spade a spade.

[The Operator]

I've said it before, and I say this as a Bengals fan. I think a lot of this blaming the Steelers stuff has to do with the frustration we all feel about Hill's physical error and Jones' mental error. The most physically talented team on the field didn't win on Saturday. But the best physical+mental team did.I'm willing to criticize The Bengals all day long for making stupid mistakes.

But I'm also not going to lay down and just accept that The Steelers never get flags thrown in-game which affect them, and then later receive fines as the NFL's BS way of saying "See, we do care!". If they cared, they'd throw the flags in-game and make The Steelers suffer REAL consequences. Not just measly fines after the fact when they've already won the game.

That's really the only thing I'm pissed about and I think most people are of a similar midset.

[The Operator]

You do realize that the performance of the bengals has absolutely nothing to do with your sense of self in the sense that you have absolutely nothing to do with their performance? Calling the bengals' performance what it was-a fumble, implosion and bengalia on the other hand then arguing it not only was tantamount to them kicking themselves in the nads but it was also embarrassing and deserving of criticism? Ummm, that's just calling a spade a spade.I am on your side, Joe Joe. Bungles are the worst.

[WrongVerb]

I'm willing to criticize The Bengals all day long for making stupid mistakes.

But I'm also not going to lay down and just accept that The Steelers never get flags thrown in-game which affect them, and then later receive fines as the NFL's BS way of saying "See, we do care!". If they cared, they'd throw the flags in-game and make The Steelers suffer REAL consequences. Not just measly fines after the fact when they've already won the game.

That's really the only thing I'm pissed about and I think most people are of a similar midset.

I see that as a related but separate issue. The Steelers most certainly should have been flagged for Shazier's hit on Bernard (and for celebrating after).

What I think the NFL should adopt is a post-game penalty system that says that if a player wasn't flagged on the field, then they can't be fined or suspended later.

[dabvu2498]

A fumble? Nononono... It was TWO costly fumbles. One of which should never have been allowed to stand. If the Bengals retain the ball there, the rest of the steelgalia likely never happens.

[The Operator]

A fumble? Nononono... It was TWO costly fumbles. One of which should never have been allowed to stand. If the Bengals retain the ball there, the rest of the steelgalia likely never happens.The hell you say?!?!

[dabvu2498]

The hell you say?!?!

The hell

[jojo]

A fumble? Nononono... It was TWO costly fumbles. One of which should never have been allowed to stand. If the Bengals retain the ball there, the rest of the steelgalia likely never happens.

I never said this but apparently we have it on good authority that the Bungles are the worst so perhaps if and butts are nuts?

[dubc47834]

I'm willing to criticize The Bengals all day long for making stupid mistakes.

But I'm also not going to lay down and just accept that The Steelers never get flags thrown in-game which affect them, and then later receive fines as the NFL's BS way of saying "See, we do care!". If they cared, they'd throw the flags in-game and make The Steelers suffer REAL consequences. Not just measly fines after the fact when they've already won the game.

That's really the only thing I'm pissed about and I think most people are of a similar midset.

Damn the fact that during 2 of the 3 Steeler/Bengal games, including the playoff game, the Steelers were penalized the most they had been all season! 10 times!!! Oh the humanity!!!

http://www.nflpenalties.com/team/pittsburgh-steelers?year=2015

[Tom Servo]

Antonio Brown is out for Sunday's game.

Interested in hearing what Pacman has to say about that.

[RedTeamGo!]

Antonio Brown is out for Sunday's game.

Interested in hearing what Pacman has to say about that.

"Awww man, he is still faking. He just wants to make me look bad, man. It's all about ME, man. Did I tell you after his body went limp mid air and was helped up and off the field he winked at ME? HA HA, maaaan, Tez and I didn't do anything wrong, man. Remember, it's all about ME, maaaan. I guarantee it, man."

Probably something like that.

[RiverRat13]

Antonio Brown is out for Sunday's game.

Interested in hearing what Pacman has to say about that.

I'm sure a heartfelt apology from Pac Man to Anthony Brown will be delivered via Instagram.

[dubc47834]

I'm sure a heartfelt apology from Pac Man to Anthony Brown will be delivered via Instagram.

Something will be posted via Instagram...would be shocked if the word sorry is in it! If it is I will eat crow!!!

[Redhook]

Antonio Brown is out for Sunday's game.

Interested in hearing what Pacman has to say about that.

I'm shocked he's out. I would've lost a lot of money if I had bet on that. I'm also not upset to hear this news.

[dubc47834]

I'm shocked he's out. I would've lost a lot of money if I had bet on that. I'm also not upset to hear this news.

I'm surprised myself, although I don't think he or the Steelers have much of a say in it.

[wolfboy]

At least after 30 pages our non-Bengal fan friends are beginning to get honest about being "objective" observers.

[Redhook]

It has to be a tough pill to swallow for Steelers fans to know that your player was knocked out by an illegal hit. Must feel awful.

[gonelong]

I get it. You're still fuming because the Canaanites had Gaza stolen from them by the Egyptians. How about we fast forward a couple dozen centuries and focus on what actually happened in the game rather than filter reality through an ancient filter?


You are focusing on this game. This has been happening for years, decades. Nobody formed this opinion on this game alone.

Apparently you haven't read the previous 30 chapters of this saga. Until you understand how we got here, you opinion on the matter isn't going to be valued.

Honest question, do you know who Keith Gary is?

GL

You don't get it. At all. You are arguing with yourself. You remain tediously fixated on a talking point that I have never espoused and don't find particularly interesting to discuss. When you catch up, I might be interested in participating.

GL

[traderumor]

Damn the fact that during 2 of the 3 Steeler/Bengal games, including the playoff game, the Steelers were penalized the most they had been all season! 10 times!!! Oh the humanity!!!

http://www.nflpenalties.com/team/pittsburgh-steelers?year=2015Yet, there were at least two very important flags that were not thrown but should have been. It is hard for me to understand how you are missing that point.

[jojo]

Yet, there were at least two very important flags that were not thrown but should have been. It is hard for me to understand how you are missing that point.

But every single play that could've been flagged on the bengals was flagged? The "focus on a play or two that didn't go your way exercise" is a game that's actually not as meaningful as it seems to the partisan playing it. And also, in the end, so what? Are you arguing that it's the refs fault either through incompetence or some type of institutional prejudice against the bengals' organization? Even if true how would any of that change the fact that if the bengals avoided the fumble, implosion, bengalia, they'd have won their first playoff game in a quarter of a century. And again, that's the most salient point, the one that cuts to the actual heart of the thing, that's being more purposefully obfuscated, really, than it's being missed in this thread.

[jojo]

Yet, there were at least two very important flags that were not thrown but should have been. It is hard for me to understand how you are missing that point.

But every single play that could've been flagged on the bengals was flagged? The "focus on a play or two that didn't go your way exercise" is a game that's actually not as meaningful as it seems to the partisan playing it. And also, in the end, so what? Are you arguing that it's the refs fault either through incompetence or some type of institutional prejudice against the bengals' organization? Even if true how would any of that change the fact that if the bengals avoided the fumble, implosion, bengalia, they'd have won their first playoff game in a quarter of a century. And again, that's the most salient point, the one that cuts to the actual heart of the thing, that's being more purposefully obfuscated, really, than it's being missed in this thread.

[dubc47834]

Yet, there were at least two very important flags that were not thrown but should have been. It is hard for me to understand how you are missing that point.

I haven't argued that point. I know there was penalties that should have been called...BOTH WAYS. But to argue that the Steelers never get called for flags in game is laughable.

[traderumor]

I haven't argued that point. I know there was penalties that should have been called...BOTH WAYS. But to argue that the Steelers never get called for flags in game is laughable.

Has anyone argued that? I've read this thread pretty closely, I do not recall seeing that idea expressed by anyone. Maybe I missed it.

[dubc47834]

Has anyone argued that? I've read this thread pretty closely, I do not recall seeing that idea expressed by anyone. Maybe I missed it.

Post #434...arguing Steelers need to be called for flags in game.

That was the reason why I looked it up.

[Redhook]

http://www.cincyjungle.com/2016/1/14/10750464/nfl-officials-botched-many-calls-in-steelers-vs-bengals-wild-card-game

Good read. Not sure if had been posted here yet.

[Bob Sheed]

The refs blew the game, period.

First the no-call on Bernard, that gave Pittsburgh the ball once.

But it was the gift that kept on giving, because Hill fumbled in a situation he wouldn't even have been in if Bernard hadn't be knocked out on a crown-of-helmet to helmet illegal play that wasn't even called.

That's how it relates to the game last Saturday.

But it goes back to the obvious Steeler philosophy that goes unchecked in the NFL, that they have been rocking for 30+ years. Knock out key opposing players via dirty play, and the worse thing that happens to them is a penalty (or not, thanks refs), and/or a fine to pay later in the week. Small prices to pay to get that W.

That's why I think the Bengals should up the ante in regard to dirty play until the NFL decides to finally do something. First time Ben drops back to pass...or heck, do it on a running play, who cares. Have some benchwarmer injure Rothlesburger. Take the 15 yard penalty, maybe even an ejection. And then a meaningless fine later in the week. But now you have to deal with Jones or a washed up Vick as opposed to Ben, which should be a pretty easy victory at that point. And as the Steelers will tell you...small price to pay for the W, which is all anyone ever remembers anyway.

Its a problem that needs to be addressed. And if the NFL won't address it, then I am hoping the Bengals will "address it" until they do.

[traderumor]

Post #434...arguing Steelers need to be called for flags in game.

That was the reason why I looked it up.And the context of that comment was "flags thrown in the game for acts that are later fined after the game but were not flagged during the game." So, the number of penalties they were actually assessed is moot. I am guessing that you understood that the original poster was not saying they never, ever, ever get flagged. If not, you should now.

[dubc47834]

And the context of that comment was "flags thrown in the game for acts that are later fined after the game but were not flagged during the game." So, the number of penalties they were actually assessed is moot. I am guessing that you understood that the original poster was not saying they never, ever, ever get flagged. If not, you should now.

No I understand he wasn't saying they are NEVER called. But he did say that the Steelers never get called for flags in game that affect them. What I'm saying is that in 2 of the Bengal/Steelers games, the Steelers were flagged 10 times. All 10 flags were meaningless? Without going back and watching those games probably won't know!

[traderumor]

No I understand he wasn't saying they are NEVER called. But he did say that the Steelers never get called for flags in game that affect them. What I'm saying is that in 2 of the Bengal/Steelers games, the Steelers were flagged 10 times. All 10 flags were meaningless? Without going back and watching those games probably won't know!Except that isn't what was said. Flags that affect them in the game rather than fined after the fact. That point has been made throughout and was simply being repeated there.

[dubc47834]

And the context of that comment was "flags thrown in the game for acts that are later fined after the game but were not flagged during the game." So, the number of penalties they were actually assessed is moot. I am guessing that you understood that the original poster was not saying they never, ever, ever get flagged. If not, you should now.

Steelers were flagged 10 times for 142 yards. That's major yardage per penalty, 5 times for 82 yards on defense. I would think there some meaningful penalties in there, but that is subjective I guess.

[dubc47834]

Except that isn't what was said. Flags that affect them in the game rather than fined after the fact. That point has been made throughout and was simply being repeated there.

Not sure what you're getting at, are you saying this wasn't said?

[Bob Sheed]

Steelers were flagged 10 times for 142 yards. That's major yardage per penalty, 5 times for 82 yards on defense. I would think there some meaningful penalties in there, but that is subjective I guess.

Small price to pay to knock out Eifert in the previous game, and then Bernard in the playoff game.

I'm honestly surprised they didn't blindside AJ Green. But I guess they figured Bernard was a 3rd down nightmare, and an easier target.

[dubc47834]

Small price to pay to knock out Eifert in the previous game, and then Bernard in the playoff game.

I'm honestly surprised they didn't blindside AJ Green. But I guess they figured Bernard was a 3rd down nightmare, and an easier target.

Except for the fact they were playing for their playoff lives that game, so being flagged for dumb stuff like that wouldn't be very smart! Not saying the Steeler's are smart tho!

[traderumor]

Not sure what you're getting at, are you saying this wasn't said?Let me try one last time. Number of penalties and penalty yardage shows what was called. The point is about what was NOT flagged but is later fined, showing that it SHOULD have been flagged and it MAY affect some outcomes of games by being handled this way. Obviously, the 10 penalties for 142 yards did not impair the Steelers ability to win the game. That is an indisputable fact. But that is not the argument you are rebutting. The argument you are rebutting are no calls/later fined acts that affect the outcome of the game. Which were pretty easily identifiable and have been discussed ad nauseum in that context in this these two threads.

[dubc47834]

Let me try one last time. Number of penalties and penalty yardage shows what was called. The point is about what was NOT flagged but is later fined, showing that it SHOULD have been flagged and it MAY affect some outcomes of games by being handled this way. Obviously, the 10 penalties for 142 yards did not impair the Steelers ability to win the game. That is an indisputable fact. But that is not the argument you are rebutting. The argument you are rebutting are no calls/later fined acts that affect the outcome of the game. Which were pretty easily identifiable and have been discussed ad nauseum in that context in this these two threads.

I get what you're saying now, I just think we are just talking around each other tho so cheers....:beerme:

Don't remember the penalty history before the final 1:30, but I would be willing to bet that you could argue that it almost did cost them. But the melt down at the end helped them overcome it...debatable tho, and I'm not digging in to that one!

[Dom Heffner]

It has to be a tough pill to swallow for Steelers fans to know that your player was knocked out by an illegal hit. Must feel awful.

They'll just toss on* their Hines Ward jerseys and talk about being "tough."

*As they walk across a dirty bridge with their lunch pails.

[Dom Heffner]

Let me try one last time. Number of penalties and penalty yardage shows what was called. The point is about what was NOT flagged but is later fined, showing that it SHOULD have been flagged and it MAY affect some outcomes of games by being handled this way. Obviously, the 10 penalties for 142 yards did not impair the Steelers ability to win the game. That is an indisputable fact. But that is not the argument you are rebutting. The argument you are rebutting are no calls/later fined acts that affect the outcome of the game. Which were pretty easily identifiable and have been discussed ad nauseum in that context in this these two threads.

Right- even after the fumble, the Bengals had something like an 80% win probability.

You give away penalty yards that take the Steelers from 40% to 80% and the fumble is sort of moot.

By the way, can we watch that Burfict sack again to see if it's dirty? Mike, you there, we need a narrative...

[Dom Heffner]

The refs blew the game, period.

First the no-call on Bernard, that gave Pittsburgh the ball once.

But it was the gift that kept on giving, because Hill fumbled in a situation he wouldn't even have been in if Bernard hadn't be knocked out on a crown-of-helmet to helmet illegal play that wasn't even called.

That's how it relates to the game last Saturday.

But it goes back to the obvious Steeler philosophy that goes unchecked in the NFL, that they have been rocking for 30+ years. Knock out key opposing players via dirty play, and the worse thing that happens to them is a penalty (or not, thanks refs), and/or a fine to pay later in the week. Small prices to pay to get that W.

That's why I think the Bengals should up the ante in regard to dirty play until the NFL decides to finally do something. First time Ben drops back to pass...or heck, do it on a running play, who cares. Have some benchwarmer injure Rothlesburger. Take the 15 yard penalty, maybe even an ejection. And then a meaningless fine later in the week. But now you have to deal with Jones or a washed up Vick as opposed to Ben, which should be a pretty easy victory at that point. And as the Steelers will tell you...small price to pay for the W, which is all anyone ever remembers anyway.

Its a problem that needs to be addressed. And if the NFL won't address it, then I am hoping the Bengals will "address it" until they do.

And rather than shut up about it, they need to keep pointing it out to change the perception.

Make it an issue and get everyone talking about that for the next 30 years....

[Redsfaithful]

Small price to pay to knock out Eifert in the previous game, and then Bernard in the playoff game.

And of course, flagged on neither play. But it's ok because they were flagged for some other things.

[Dom Heffner]

And of course, flagged on neither play. But it's ok because they were flagged for some other things.

Game plan: pull their hair and insult them on the field.

[Chip R]

http://www.avclub.com/article/self-serving-disgrace-nfl-playoffs-230793?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=Default:1:Default

[Dom Heffner]

http://www.avclub.com/article/self-serving-disgrace-nfl-playoffs-230793?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=Default:1:Default

Bingo, bingo, bingo.


CBS aired slow-motion footage of the Bernard tackle many times, as it did for the other wince-inducing hits that ensued in a rough and messy fourth quarter. Unless the replays were a form of highly public self-flagellation by the broadcast’s producers, it’s safe to presume that CBS viewed the carnage as a form of entertainment. But after Cincinnati fans cheered an injury to Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger, play-by-play commentator Jim Nantz would go on to call their behavior “disgraceful.”

[Dom Heffner]

Now, applauding a player’s pain is worthy of shame, no question. Nantz works for an organization, though, that glorifies gridiron violence on a regular basis. By his calculus, it is fine for CBS to build a broadcast empire around this oft-gruesome sport, to sell ads for tortilla chips around it, and to repeatedly display its most bone-jarring moments in frame-by-frame high-definition detail. Yet when spectators give in to the bloodlust that the NFL MediaDome has stoked in them, this is evidently the moment when pro football falls from grace. The league went to the trouble of establishing all this decorum, and those rotten Cincy fans went and breached it.

It’s a classic mass media double standard: The turpitude lies not in TV’s glorification of violence but in how we, the scum of the audience, consume it. So as you enjoy the Divisional round this weekend, remember that you are the last and only line of defense against the downfall of civil society—I know it’s true because Jim Nantz told me so. The stewards of the league are counting on you to keep your base instincts in check, preferably as you consume massive quantities of light beer and also purchase a luxury automobile or two. Anything else would be unfortunate.

Glorious.

[Bob Sheed]

Except for the fact they were playing for their playoff lives that game, so being flagged for dumb stuff like that wouldn't be very smart! Not saying the Steeler's are smart tho!

You're not thinking very Steeler-ly there.

Knock out Eifert, take the 15 yard flag, and the rest of the game (and the following week, thanks to concussion protocol) is without Eifert. Small. Price. To. Pay.

Bernard converting too many 3rd downs? "Crown that fool and bwhahaha they didn't even flag us and we got the fumble!!"

[Redhook]

Luckily, Carey was on hand to clarify the matter: When Bernard turned his body upfield for a split second after catching the ball, he transformed himself from a defenseless “receiver” into a “runner.” According to the rules, the former is a magic crystal unicorn who warrants protection by the vaunted NFL shield, while the latter is some ******* who deserves what’s coming to him. In a bracing display of euphemism, Carey more than once deemed Shazier’s hit “unfortunate” but not illegal. “Alas, fortune has not smiled upon me at this juncture!” Bernard surely mused as his consciousness was rearranged by an angry 230-pound beast-man. If only he were struck a moment earlier, before he emerged from his receiver chrysalis to complete his metamorphosis into a runner! That would have been so very fortunate, apparently.

This paragraph made me laugh pretty hard. A magical crystal uniform into an ahole.

[Bob Sheed]

This paragraph made me laugh pretty hard. A magical crystal uniform into an ahole.

Carey also conveniently forgetting that leading w/ the crown of your helmet is illegal regardless of whether the the other guy is a defenseless receiver, runner, or magic unicorn.

Crown of his helmet right into Bernard's jaw. K.O. And no flag. "Unfortunate?" yeah that's one word to describe it I guess.

[bucksfan2]

Carey also conveniently forgetting that leading w/ the crown of your helmet is illegal regardless of whether the the other guy is a defenseless receiver, runner, or magic unicorn.

Crown of his helmet right into Bernard's jaw. K.O. And no flag. "Unfortunate?" yeah that's one word to describe it I guess.

Carey also flagged Justin Smith for tackling the QB to hard on a sack.

[Redhook]

Carey also flagged Justin Smith for tackling the QB to hard on a sack.

That was him, huh. I didn't know that. After all these years, it now makes sense why that flag was thrown.

It's pretty telling how bad the NFL's refs are when Carey is one of their top guys. And to top it off, they let him preach his ignorance on tv now.

[CTA513]

Porter and Munchak fined $10,000 each
Pacman was fined $29,000 for making contact with an official.


By fining Porter $10,000, the league concedes that Porter did something he shouldn’t have done. Which reasonably means that it’s something for which he should have been flagged.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/01/15/by-fining-joey-porter-league-essentially-admits-he-should-have-been-flagged/

[westofyou]

Porter and Munchak fined $10,000 each
Pacman was fined $29,000 for making contact with an official.



http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/01/15/by-fining-joey-porter-league-essentially-admits-he-should-have-been-flagged/


So, basically, it’s fair to say that the inaction of the game officials decided the outcome of the game.

Stupid Bengals fans tarnishing their brand over this one little fact that has been stuck in our craw all week

[CTA513]

heres some more that I didn't see listed on PFT, but were on NFL.com:


As for the other players present amid the chaos: Bengals Domata Peko & Wallace Gilberry fined $8,681 apiece. Peko was fined for unnecessary roughness and Gilberry was fined for unsportsmanlike conduct.

And rounding out or list, Steelers offensive lineman Ramon Foster was hit with a $17,363 fine for a leg whip.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000623166/article/adam-jones-fined-28k-steelers-porter-fined-10k

[jojo]

So, basically, it’s fair to say that the inaction of the game officials decided the outcome of the game.

Stupid Bengals fans tarnishing their brand over this one little fact that has been stuck in our craw all week

It's safer to say that whahhhhaaaaaaaaambulances have been racking up mileage in bengals nation during the last week. Its absolutely factual that fumble, implosion and bengalia actually decided the outcome of the game.

[Kingspoint]

Small price to pay to knock out Eifert in the previous game, and then Bernard in the playoff game.

I'm honestly surprised they didn't blindside AJ Green. But I guess they figured Bernard was a 3rd down nightmare, and an easier target.

They did take out Green....last year...and he was missed to end the season and in the playoffs as we desperately (and successfully) threw the ball to Hewitt.


And about all of this trash talk about Burfict's sack...it should be the poster example of how you sack the QB in every legal way possible in order to prevent malicious harm. There was no leading with the helmet, spearing in the kidneys, hitting below the thighs, driving into the ground, or any other form of tackling that implies intent to injure. Landing on him was an unavoidable act and nothing that should be seen in a negative light as most tackles lead to the guy being hit being landed on by another player, including his own. The shoulder got separated because these things happen when a thousand pounds of force is applied at the wrong angle. Roethlisberger is prone to these accidents as nobody holds onto the ball longer than he does.

[Kingspoint]

heres some more that I didn't see listed on PFT, but were on NFL.com:



http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000623166/article/adam-jones-fined-28k-steelers-porter-fined-10k

Was it the leg whip that ended Brandon Thompson's career with the Bengals or was it another play where Thompson tore his ACL?

[Redhook]

It's safer to say that whahhhhaaaaaaaaambulances have been racking up mileage in bengals nation during the last week. Its absolutely factual that fumble, implosion and bengalia actually decided the outcome of the game.

It'd be best if you left this thread. First of all, you're a jerk/troll for that comment. And, second, you're arguing over the last 2 minutes of the game, which you may or may not of even seen, when the rest of us are pointing out parts of the game that affected the entire game.

[jojo]

It'd be best if you left this thread. First of all, you're a jerk/troll for that comment. And, second, you're arguing over the last 2 minutes of the game, which you may or may not of even seen, when the rest of us are pointing out parts of the game that affected the entire game.

Ummm-no, and no, and I'm discussing what can absolutely be directly tied to outcome of the game in contrast to emotion-driven supposition about things that are perceived to have influenced the bengals solely. I'm actually NOT the one picking and choosing and in the process acting like there is injustice by viewing things in a vacuum.

[Dom Heffner]

It's safer to say that whahhhhaaaaaaaaambulances have been racking up mileage in bengals nation during the last week. Its absolutely factual that fumble, implosion and bengalia actually decided the outcome of the game.

Doh!

[Brutus]

Two questions come to mind.

1. Did an adult in this thread really use the term "whahhhhaaaaaaaaambulance?" Did that really happen?

2. And how is that not trolling?

[RiverRat13]

Does the NFL owe Shawn Williams $10k for flagging him for a legal hit?

[BluegrassRedleg]

It has to be a tough pill to swallow for Steelers fans to know that your player was knocked out by an illegal hit. Must feel awful.

The Steelers are more or less the NFL's St. Louis Cardinals, which may be why it chaffes Cincinnati even more. They'll say "next man up" and probably have somebody we've never heard of make plays against Denver.

[westofyou]

Two questions come to mind.

1. Did an adult in this thread really use the term "whahhhhaaaaaaaaambulance?" Did that really happen?

2. And how is that not trolling?

Trollrmageddon

[Dom Heffner]

Two questions come to mind.

1. Did an adult in this thread really use the term "whahhhhaaaaaaaaambulance?" Did that really happen?

2. And how is that not trolling?

Bengalia is a reason.

Sorry, I mean Bengalia.

[BluegrassRedleg]

Interesting: NFL says no penalty, no fine on Shazier play. Jojo nailed the explanation of why it wasn't.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/01/dean-blandino-explains-why-saturday-night-hit-by-steelers-lb-ryan-shazier-was-legal/

Interesting, Part II: They say Bryant's TD catch may not have been a TD catch.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/01/15/blandino-says-not-enough-evidence-to-overturn-martavis-bryant-touchdown/

[Dom Heffner]

The Steelers are more or less the NFL's St. Louis Cardinals, which may be why it chaffes Cincinnati even more. They'll say "next man up" and probably have somebody we've never heard of make plays against Denver.

I honestly don't think they have any chance of a win in Denver. I don't think it's close.

- - - Updated - - -


Interesting: NFL says no penalty, no fine on Shazier play. Jojo nailed the explanation of why it wasn't.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/01/dean-blandino-explains-why-saturday-night-hit-by-steelers-lb-ryan-shazier-was-legal/

Interesting, Part II: They say Bryant's TD catch may not have been a TD catch.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/01/15/blandino-says-not-enough-evidence-to-overturn-martavis-bryant-touchdown/

According to CBS, you can jiggle the ball all over as long it stays pressed against your body.

[jojo]

Two questions come to mind.

1. Did an adult in this thread really use the term "whahhhhaaaaaaaaambulance?" Did that really happen?

2. And how is that not trolling?

Ummm, because it made a relevant point.

[BluegrassRedleg]

I honestly don't think they have any chance of a win in Denver. I don't think it's close.

- - - Updated - - -



According to CBS, you can jiggle the ball all over as long it stays pressed against your body.

I don't, either, although people are putting WAY too much stock in Manning being back. He's been gawd-awful this year, especially at home. Something like 1 TD and 7 INTs.

Just don't think Pittsburgh has eonugh weapons left to score against the really solid Denver D.

[Brutus]

Trollrmageddon

Brand loyalty.

[SteelSD]

Interesting: NFL says no penalty, no fine on Shazier play. Jojo nailed the explanation of why it wasn't.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/01/dean-blandino-explains-why-saturday-night-hit-by-steelers-lb-ryan-shazier-was-legal/

Well, there ya' go. Officials did directly influence the score of the game by blowing the fumble call; which would have resulted in a 22-0 lead for Pittsburgh after an easy TD for Shazier.