2016 NFL Season

[Chip R]

I think GAC's experience as a Brown's fan clouds his judgment here. Fact is most teams have success. The Browns not so much.

I fixed that for you.

[Sea Ray]

I fixed that for you.

Yeah, that too...

[GAC]

I think GAC's experience as a Brown's fan clouds his judgment here.

What in the world does my being a Brown's fan have anything to do with talking about all the 1st round QBs drafted out of college that were either busts or didn't live up to expectations (hype)? LOL


Fact is most teams have success with their first rd QBs. The Browns not so much.

I was just throwing out some 1st round QBs that were busts off the top of my head. Not trying to provide a comprehensive list (LOL). Of course there have been successes. I guess it also boils down to how one defines success. But here's a more comprehensive list of 1st round QB busts or huge disappointments. And some of these were Heisman Trophy winners .....

Ryan Leaf, Cade McNown, Akili Smith, JaMarcus Russell, Joey Harrington, Matt Leinart, Jason Campbell, Alex Smith, Blaine Gabbert, Brady Quinn, J.P. Losman, David Carr, Christian Ponder, Kyle Boller, Vince Young, Tim Tebow, Mark Sanchez, Josh Freeman, Sam Bradford, Jake Locker, RGIII, Johnny Maziel

The simple point I'm making it that there is huge risk involved, and NCAA success does not always translate into NFL success. Two different ballgames. There has been a lot of major disappointments and failures, players who never came close to living up to the hype, at multiple positions (RB, WR, LB, DE, etc), and were drafted in that 1st round.



Aaron Rogers, Michael Vick, Carson Palmer, Matt Ryan

Vick had a successful NFL career? LOL

[GAC]

I fixed that for you.

We're not the absolute worst team every year - or else we'd consistently have the #1 pick!

We can't even get right! :p

[Chip R]

Vick had a successful NFL career? LOL

He's not going to the HOF but he was pretty successful for a while. Beat Green Bay in a playoff game in Green Bay in Green Bay weather. The Browns should have such an unsuccessful QB.

[Assembly Hall]

He's not going to the HOF but he was pretty successful for a while. Beat Green Bay in a playoff game in Green Bay in Green Bay weather. The Browns should have such an unsuccessful QB.

You are correct...but I can't help myself......."The Dawg Pound" says hello!

[Bob Sheed]

Ryan Leaf, Cade McNown, Akili Smith, JaMarcus Russell, Joey Harrington, Matt Leinart, Jason Campbell, Alex Smith, Blaine Gabbert, Brady Quinn, J.P. Losman, David Carr, Christian Ponder, Kyle Boller, Vince Young, Tim Tebow, Mark Sanchez, Josh Freeman, Sam Bradford, Jake Locker, RGIII, Johnny Maziel



To be fair, only like, 75% of those players were drafted by the Browns.







(lol)

[GAC]

To be fair, only like, 75% of those players were drafted by the Browns.







(lol)

Go back over on the Political thread Bob! :mooner:

[GAC]

You are correct...but I can't help myself......."The Dawg Pound" says hello!

You can safely say that here...... go do it in the Dawg Pound! Better have Aflac. LOL

[Sea Ray]

It just keeps getting better for the Browns. It seems that their kicker couldn't even make it through practice this week without getting hurt and will likely miss the rest of the season:

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/browns-hit-again-kicker-murray-placed-on-injured-reserve-092416

[Sea Ray]

What in the world does my being a Brown's fan have anything to do with talking about all the 1st round QBs drafted out of college that were either busts or didn't live up to expectations (hype)? LOL



I was just throwing out some 1st round QBs that were busts off the top of my head. Not trying to provide a comprehensive list (LOL). Of course there have been successes. I guess it also boils down to how one defines success. But here's a more comprehensive list of 1st round QB busts or huge disappointments. And some of these were Heisman Trophy winners .....

Ryan Leaf, Cade McNown, Akili Smith, JaMarcus Russell, Joey Harrington, Matt Leinart, Jason Campbell, Alex Smith, Blaine Gabbert, Brady Quinn, J.P. Losman, David Carr, Christian Ponder, Kyle Boller, Vince Young, Tim Tebow, Mark Sanchez, Josh Freeman, Sam Bradford, Jake Locker, RGIII, Johnny Maziel

The simple point I'm making it that there is huge risk involved, and NCAA success does not always translate into NFL success. Two different ballgames. There has been a lot of major disappointments and failures, players who never came close to living up to the hype, at multiple positions (RB, WR, LB, DE, etc), and were drafted in that 1st round.



My point is that a lot of teams do draft good QBs in the 1st rd...it's just that the Browns aren't one of them. My guess is that this principle will be tested again in April 2017

[RedTeamGo!]

Eh, I think it's lame to poo-poo GAC's opinions of the Browns because he is a Browns fan.

Don't see GAC calling out Bengals fans for constantly whining about the Steelers headhunting and then celebrating the Bengals own headhunting tendencies.

[Kingspoint]

Cleveland has clearly angered the GODS. They were never meant to have another franchise.

In a walkthrough on Friday, their Kicker injured himself and is lost for the season. Their Kicker was probably their best Offensive player at this point, and he's gone.

[GAC]

Cleveland has clearly angered the GODS. They were never meant to have another franchise.

In a walkthrough on Friday, their Kicker injured himself and is lost for the season. Their Kicker was probably their best Offensive player at this point, and he's gone.

It very bad to steal Joboo's rum... very bad! LOL

I see being a Brown's fan, as long as I have, as stubbornly holding on to a bad stock .... I'm going down with the ship. LOL

[GAC]

Eh, I think it's lame to poo-poo GAC's opinions of the Browns because he is a Browns fan.

It don't bother me man. It's not like we don't deserve it (LOL).


Don't see GAC calling out Bengals fans for constantly whining about the Steelers headhunting and then celebrating the Bengals own headhunting tendencies.

I'm a life-long, and loyal, Ohioan. I've followed, and rooted for the Bengals since they were formed. Just not when they play my Browns, ;)

[Sea Ray]

Eh, I think it's lame to poo-poo GAC's opinions of the Browns because he is a Browns fan.

Don't see GAC calling out Bengals fans for constantly whining about the Steelers headhunting and then celebrating the Bengals own headhunting tendencies.

I don't mean it to be taken as an insult. It's an excuse for misjudging a franchise. I speak from experience. Being a lifelong Bengal fan I know how one holds onto hope always thinking that next yr's draft will be "the one". To a certain extent we're doing that as Reds' fans right now.

[Kingspoint]

It very bad to steal Joboo's rum... very bad! LOL

I see being a Brown's fan, as long as I have, as stubbornly holding on to a bad stock .... I'm going down with the ship. LOL

I'm not like many Bengals' fans who won't forgive Cleveland for the way Paul Brown was treated. Living in the State would have to be a completely different feeling for a 1000 reasons. I hope Cleveland becomes competitive. As far as the Ravens, they can,...well,...it's complicated.

[GAC]

I speak from experience. Being a lifelong Bengal fan I know how one holds onto hope always thinking that next yr's draft will be "the one".

But I've never said that of the Brown's drafts though. I've never pinned my hopes on any one draft, or player. Since 1999 they've had far more misses then hits. Where does one begin? .... with Courtney Brown, Gerard Warren, Winslow, Edwards, Quinn, Richardson, the list goes on. But they've had bright spots too, in Thomas, Mack, Haden, etc.

I've always approached it from the perspective that you need to build/ assemble that solid "supporting cast" before making the splash in the draft, especially the 1st round, to get that high impact player(s) to round it out. This is something the Brown's FO has failed miserably to do over the years.

I simply think, for once, this FO is taking that approach. This year's Browns team is very, very young and inexperienced.

You mentioned the Reds. I agree with what you said. It's been a tough year for them, taking their lumps, but as the year progressed my optimism concerning the future has been buoyed. But we'll see.

That's simply the approach I'm taking with the "reboot" of this year's Browns. I'm more interested in them this year, than in recent seasons, partly because they are so young, inexperienced, but I see talent and I want to see how it develops this year.

[GAC]

I'm not like many Bengals' fans who won't forgive Cleveland for the way Paul Brown was treated. Living in the State would have to be a completely different feeling for a 1000 reasons. I hope Cleveland becomes competitive. As far as the Ravens, they can,...well,...it's complicated.

I understand and agree where you're coming from buddy.

Here's the thing with Paul Brown .... I think he was one of the greatest coaching minds in football for his entire coaching tenure (Beginning at Massillon, OSU, etc). I've read/studied a lot on him. He was a compulsively driven individual. A genius in many ways. Without Paul Brown, you would not be seeing football as it is today. What an innovator. But one huge fanatical control freak.

Like many fans, I too, for years, put the total blame for Modell and Brown parting ways totally on Modell. All I can say is that after reading Terry Pluto's book "When All The World Was Browns Town" - have a copy, and have read it a few times, and recommend it for anyone - I've tempered my hatred for Modell, wasn't totally all his fault when I saw the temperament and driven, controlling personality of coach Brown. The former owners of the Browns were fearful of this guy, and afraid to disagree with him. You just didn't cross this guy (LOL). Always "My way or the highway". Yeah, he won; but was a very hard man to deal with.

Modell had no interest in getting involved in pro football. He was a NYC lawyer involved in advertising when a friend approached and recommended he buy the controlling interest in the Browns. When he took over the Browns he sat down with Brown and basically said "You run the team as far as the players and what goes on on that field, and I'll stay out of your way and do the advertising (PR) aspect of promoting the team." Brown threw a fit because he controlled ALL ASPECTS, and saw that as an attempt to enter his turf, yield partial control. They butted heads from that time on, and Brown even would do stuff to purposely irritate Modell. If I'd have been in Modell's shoes, I may have fired Brown (LOL). One can only take so much.

As for moving the team to Baltimore? Put a very bad taste in my mouth. Modell put a lot of his wealth, even borrowed money, to try and put a competitive team on the field. He wanted a new stadium, and saw where other cities were building stadiums for their team. Municipal Stadium was becoming one dilapidated building. Even visiting teams laughed at it. Yet the city leaders kept telling Modell they didn't have the money. Yet they built the Indians a new stadium, and even found the money to build the Rock n Roll HOF. Go figure. So I place some of that blame on the city. They bluffed and he (unfortunately) called it seeing Baltimore was looking for a team (and had gotten the same treatment from Indy).

[GAC]

As for my Browns yesterday? In a battle of two 0-2 teams, a game the young Browns should have won, they found a way to lose it. When we lined up for the winning FG - and, at that point, we were 3 fer 5 on FG attempts for the day - I told my brother "These ain't the Kardiac Kids" (LOL). And he missed it bad. I knew then it would take a miracle for them to win this - karma, whatever - even in OT (LOL).

But I've been impressed, somewhat encouraged, by their offensive play these last couple of weeks (even though we're on a 3rd QB in as many weeks LOL).... .... 430 total yds yesterday against a Miami defense that is suppose to be their strong-point. Rookie Kessler started out shaky in his first start, but settled down, and finished 21/33 for 244. Not bad. RB Crowell has been running well, and Pryor had a heck of a game (8 rec/ 144 yds).

[Sea Ray]

But I've never said that of the Brown's drafts though. I've never pinned my hopes on any one draft, or player. Since 1999 they've had far more misses then hits. Where does one begin? .... with Courtney Brown, Gerard Warren, Winslow, Edwards, Quinn, Richardson, the list goes on. But they've had bright spots too, in Thomas, Mack, Haden, etc.

I've always approached it from the perspective that you need to build/ assemble that solid "supporting cast" before making the splash in the draft, especially the 1st round, to get that high impact player(s) to round it out. This is something the Brown's FO has failed miserably to do over the years.

I simply think, for once, this FO is taking that approach. This year's Browns team is very, very young and inexperienced.

You mentioned the Reds. I agree with what you said. It's been a tough year for them, taking their lumps, but as the year progressed my optimism concerning the future has been buoyed. But we'll see.

That's simply the approach I'm taking with the "reboot" of this year's Browns. I'm more interested in them this year, than in recent seasons, partly because they are so young, inexperienced, but I see talent and I want to see how it develops this year.

You said two years ago that you liked the moves made by the front office. Since then the team has gotten much worse...but again it's not just you. I see the same optimism in Jax and his Jaguars.

I guess it didn't take long for the Browns injury to their kicker to cost them a game. How does an NFL kicker miss 3 FGs in one game? I guess the answer is when they're not really an NFL kicker.

[RedsBaron]

As for moving the team to Baltimore? Put a very bad taste in my mouth. Modell put a lot of his wealth, even borrowed money, to try and put a competitive team on the field. He wanted a new stadium, and saw where other cities were building stadiums for their team. Municipal Stadium was becoming one dilapidated building. Even visiting teams laughed at it. Yet the city leaders kept telling Modell they didn't have the money. Yet they built the Indians a new stadium, and even found he money to build the Rock n Roll HOF. Go figure. So I place some of that blame on the city. They bluffed and he (unfortunately) called it seeing Baltimore was looking for a team (and had gotten the same treatment from Indy).
GAC's summary of the relationship between Modell and the City of Cleveland reminded me of stories of the Dodgers moving from Brooklyn to LA. When I was young and reading stories written by NY sportswriters in "Sport" magazine and "Baseball Digest," as well as books by many of the same sportswriters, Walter O'Malley was the devil who moved their beloved Dodgers out of Brooklyn. When I read more fairly balanced accounts years later I discovered that O'Malley had been rebuffed time and again by the City of NY in his efforts to construct a new stadium in Brooklyn. Robert Moses may have been as much a "devil" in the Dodgers (and Giants) departing NYC as O'Malley.

[Kingspoint]

If I was Modell, I would have moved the team out of Cleveland at least six years earlier. Cleveland treated him like dog-doo. Plus, Baltimore fans deserved a team for what Irsay did to them.

[GAC]

You said two years ago that you liked the moves made by the front office.

The fact that I said I like SOME of their moves is not the same as saying, as you stated, "pinning my hopes on any one draft or player". And at the same time that I said I liked some of their moves, I also questioned and opposed many of their moves/decisions (like drafting Manziel).


Since then the team has gotten much worse

You can't get much worse (LOL). But technically, I made those comments at the conclusion of the 2014 season, and going into last season. And, like a majority of Brown fans, I didn't share much optimism going into last season because there really wasn't any major moves made to put us heading in the right direction. I don't think you'll find, if you browse some of the various discussions from last year about the 2015 Browns, where I expressed shock and disappointment at the weekly results (LOL).

Look... all I'm saying is that over the past year they've cleared out some personnel in the FO and supplanted them with people whom I, for lack of a better word, have a little more confidence in. I agree with the "reboot", and the stocking up of draft choices (last year and next), a "youth" movement (like the Reds) so to speak. As the year progressed I liked a lot what I saw out of the Reds, meaning, development and I think they're heading in the right direction; but it may be a couple years before we know anything. So I'm taking the same approach to the 2016 Browns. I like Hue Jackson. So I'm simply sitting back, watching young players, see if they're developing (still early), and I'll go from there. What else have I got to lose?

You keep acting like I'm wasting my time, it's never going to change, it's ridiculous for me to think it will get better. OK, fine. All I can say is that the 1990's was also a lost decade for the Bengals. From 1991 till 2005 they never had a winning record, and were pretty miserable. So I simply hold out hope for that other Ohio team. They're my team, and have been for 50 years (LOL).

[GAC]

If I was Modell, I would have moved the team out of Cleveland at least six years earlier. Cleveland treated him like dog-doo.

Yep. The city leadership screwed up big time, and totally under-estimated the Brown's fan-base, which is fanatical (you have to be LOL) and quite loyal.

[redsfanmia]

If I was Modell, I would have moved the team out of Cleveland at least six years earlier. Cleveland treated him like dog-doo. Plus, Baltimore fans deserved a team for what Irsay did to them.

What did Irsay do to them that was any different than what Modell did to Cleveland fans. Irsay wanted upgrades to a dump of a stadium that was in a horrible part of Baltimore and the city refused then the Maryland legislator floated a bill about ceasing the Colts citing immenint domain, Irsay was almost forced to leave.

[Kingspoint]

What did Irsay do to them that was any different than what Modell did to Cleveland fans. Irsay wanted upgrades to a dump of a stadium that was in a horrible part of Baltimore and the city refused then the Maryland legislator floated a bill about ceasing the Colts citing immenint domain, Irsay was almost forced to leave.

Irsay didn't try to negotiate witht the City as much as Modell did. He bailed out much earlier.

[Revering4Blue]

Irsay didn't try to negotiate witht the City as much as Modell did. He bailed out much earlier.

Sorry, but this is so not true.

I've been a fan of the Colts since the Bert Jones years in which they were a solid playoff team (circa 76' or so-- long before they moved to Indy), and negotiations between Irsay and the city began around that time period. The previous post by redsfanmia that you quoted about the failures of the City of Baltimore and the Maryland General Assembly just about sums it up, but I also wanted to add that I recall reading at the time that 14 luxury boxes (yes, only 14) would have kept the Colts in Baltimore; the Baltimore/Maryland powers-that-be refused to make it happen. That, along with the measure to assert eminent domain, is on Baltimore and the Maryland State Legislature; they played "chicken" with Irsay and lost. Heck, It was only after the Colts moved that the mayor reversed his position and supported establishment of a new stadium in time for the Orioles...but too late to keep the Colts. It would have also helped if the Colts "fans", despite being in Playoff contention through November, would have (other than opening day) come close to filling the Stadium during their last year in Baltimore.

Is Irsay blameless here? No, he was an alcoholic version of Mike Brown circa '90s, who helped to create an atmosphere in which no one wanted to play for the Baltimore Colts, no doubt fracturing a fanbase in the process (still no excuse for not supporting the '83 Playoff contending team, though). Example: John Dutton, who forced a trade to the Cowboys -- the sight of Dutton in a Cowboy's uniform sickened me. And, of course, John Elway. I found this, which makes Irsay look even worse than usual; not an easy feat.


As the furor grew and dragged on, John Elway took matters into his own hands. He called Accorsi one night and they talked for a long time. Elway told Ernie that he was tired of the fuss and bother, and when it came down to it, he said, he just wanted to play football. Accorsi said that the conversation was long, they found common ground and the pick became a done deal. Ernie, being an honest guy, then made the major error of telling Robert Irsay about the talk. Irsay, half-tanked, immediately started getting on the phone to trade Elway.

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/monday-musings-just-how-close-elway-came-to-being-a-colt

That right... Even though GM Ernie Accorsi had, for all practical purposes had convinced Elway to be a Colt, Irsay -- bound and determined to deal Elway after Elway stated that he didn't want to play in Baltimore) went over Accorsi's head and engineered a bad (compared with other reported packages from other teams at the time) trade with Denver.

It was a two-way street, but not all, or even mostly, on Irsay, despite the often-parroted narrative from the Baltimore crowd regarding the Colt's departure.

[Revering4Blue]

I understand and agree where you're coming from buddy.

Here's the thing with Paul Brown .... I think he was one of the greatest coaching minds in football for his entire coaching tenure (Beginning at Massillon, OSU, etc). I've read/studied a lot on him. He was a compulsively driven individual. A genius in many ways. Without Paul Brown, you would not be seeing football as it is today. What an innovator. But one huge fanatical control freak.

Like many fans, I too, for years, put the total blame for Modell and Brown parting ways totally on Modell. All I can say is that after reading Terry Pluto's book "When All The World Was Browns Town" - have a copy, and have read it a few times, and recommend it for anyone - I've tempered my hatred for Modell, wasn't totally all his fault when I saw the temperament and driven, controlling personality of coach Brown. The former owners of the Browns were fearful of this guy, and afraid to disagree with him. You just didn't cross this guy (LOL). Always "My way or the highway". Yeah, he won; but was a very hard man to deal with.

Modell had no interest in getting involved in pro football. He was a NYC lawyer involved in advertising when a friend approached and recommended he buy the controlling interest in the Browns. When he took over the Browns he sat down with Brown and basically said "You run the team as far as the players and what goes on on that field, and I'll stay out of your way and do the advertising (PR) aspect of promoting the team." Brown threw a fit because he controlled ALL ASPECTS, and saw that as an attempt to enter his turf, yield partial control. They butted heads from that time on, and Brown even would do stuff to purposely irritate Modell. If I'd have been in Modell's shoes, I may have fired Brown (LOL). One can only take so much.

As for moving the team to Baltimore? Put a very bad taste in my mouth. Modell put a lot of his wealth, even borrowed money, to try and put a competitive team on the field. He wanted a new stadium, and saw where other cities were building stadiums for their team. Municipal Stadium was becoming one dilapidated building. Even visiting teams laughed at it. Yet the city leaders kept telling Modell they didn't have the money. Yet they built the Indians a new stadium, and even found the money to build the Rock n Roll HOF. Go figure. So I place some of that blame on the city. They bluffed and he (unfortunately) called it seeing Baltimore was looking for a team (and had gotten the same treatment from Indy).

Modell was offered a place in the Gateway development project that spawned Jacobs Field and the "Q", which he turned down -- partially, because he mistakenly believed that he could strong-arm Cleveland into building another multi-purpose stadium that the Indians and Browns would share, with the same sweetheart shared revenue deal he had with the Indians at Municipal Stadium, and partially due to his wish that any new Browns stadium (with or without the Indians) be built on land that Modell owned for associated gameday revenue reasons. He was also promised a taxpayer-funded renovation of Municipal Stadium. He never officially turned down the renovations, but called for a moratorium on discussions about the stadium and then he held his secret negotiations with the city of Baltimore and agreed to move the team without working with the city of Cleveland to try and stay.

Yeah, that really sounds like Modell was treated like dog poo.

Nothing could be further from the truth. He deserved/deserves all the contempt that he's received from Browns fans and the city over the years since the Browns became the Ratbirds.

[Newport Red]

JJ Watt re-injures back. AFC South becomes wide open if this is true.

http://www.chron.com/sports/texans/article/Texans-J-J-Watt-re-injures-back-could-miss-9312988.php

[Assembly Hall]

Sorry, but this is so not true.

I've been a fan of the Colts since the Bert Jones years in which they were a solid playoff team (circa 76' or so-- long before they moved to Indy), and negotiations between Irsay and the city began around that time period. The previous post by redsfanmia that you quoted about the failures of the City of Baltimore and the Maryland General Assembly just about sums it up, but I also wanted to add that I recall reading at the time that 14 luxury boxes (yes, only 14) would have kept the Colts in Baltimore; the Baltimore/Maryland powers-that-be refused to make it happen. That, along with the measure to assert eminent domain, is on Baltimore and the Maryland State Legislature; they played "chicken" with Irsay and lost. Heck, It was only after the Colts moved that the mayor reversed his position and supported establishment of a new stadium in time for the Orioles...but too late to keep the Colts. It would have also helped if the Colts "fans", despite being in Playoff contention through November, would have (other than opening day) come close to filling the Stadium during their last year in Baltimore.

Is Irsay blameless here? No, he was an alcoholic version of Mike Brown circa '90s, who helped to create an atmosphere in which no one wanted to play for the Baltimore Colts, no doubt fracturing a fanbase in the process (still no excuse for not supporting the '83 Playoff contending team, though). Example: John Dutton, who forced a trade to the Cowboys -- the sight of Dutton in a Cowboy's uniform sickened me. And, of course, John Elway. I found this, which makes Irsay look even worse than usual; not an easy feat.



http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/monday-musings-just-how-close-elway-came-to-being-a-colt

That right... Even though GM Ernie Accorsi had, for all practical purposes had convinced Elway to be a Colt, Irsay -- bound and determined to deal Elway after Elway stated that he didn't want to play in Baltimore) went over Accorsi's head and engineered a bad (compared with other reported packages from other teams at the time) trade with Denver.

It was a two-way street, but not all, or even mostly, on Irsay, despite the often-parroted narrative from the Baltimore crowd regarding the Colt's departure.

Good stuff Rev, but I always wondered what Indy was gonna do with the dome if the Colts hadn't have come. IIRC they started building it in '82.

[redsfanmia]

Good stuff Rev, but I always wondered what Indy was gonna do with the dome if the Colts hadn't have come. IIRC they started building it in '82.
Hudnut had a vision and they were going to use the Dome to lure not only and NFL team but also marquee events like the Final Four and NBA all star game. Bill Hudnut made Indy viable, before the dome down town was a dump and was empty on the weekends, now it's really nice and quite a happening place.

[Kingspoint]

Hudnut had a vision and they were going to use the Dome to lure not only and NFL team but also marquee events like the Final Four and NBA all star game. Bill Hudnut made Indy viable, before the dome down town was a dump and was empty on the weekends, now it's really nice and quite a happening place.

I was at Ft. Benjamin Harrison for six months back in '80-'81. There were 10 straight days where it never got above zero at one time. Windchill reached into the -50's during that period. But, when I did get a chance to venture out, and I've ventured throughout every City I've ever visited in my life, I found Indianapolis to be the most boring town I'd ever been to for it's size. So, instead, I found myself venturing to cities in Ohio, going to Chicago, and seeing what else I could find for entertainment. The moonshine though, I didn't see coming. Wow!

It's obviously changed, but I had always heard that the mosquitoes were so bad in Indy in the Summer that it was unbearable. I obviously missed the 500, which makes the City an incredible place to be for about a month or so. I did see Dr. J up close in his full-length white mink coat and white mink hat. That was cool after the game. It was just a nice, quiet town back then.

[Assembly Hall]

I was at Ft. Benjamin Harrison for six months back in '80-'81. There were 10 straight days where it never got above zero at one time. Windchill reached into the -50's during that period. But, when I did get a chance to venture out, and I've ventured throughout every City I've ever visited in my life, I found Indianapolis to be the most boring town I'd ever been to for it's size. So, instead, I found myself venturing to cities in Ohio, going to Chicago, and seeing what else I could find for entertainment. The moonshine though, I didn't see coming. Wow!

It's obviously changed, but I had always heard that the mosquitoes were so bad in Indy in the Summer that it was unbearable. I obviously missed the 500, which makes the City an incredible place to be for about a month or so. I did see Dr. J up close in his full-length white mink coat and white mink hat. That was cool after the game. It was just a nice, quiet town back then.

Now that just has me shaking my head. I am a native Hoosier but I have traveled around quite a bit in my lifetime. Indy is/was never a boring town. You just didn't do your research!!!! LOL

Back to topic.

[Sea Ray]

Now that just has me shaking my head. I am a native Hoosier but I have traveled around quite a bit in my lifetime. Indy is/was never a boring town. You just didn't do your research!!!! LOL

Back to topic.

Indy didn't get the name naptown for nothing

https://www.reference.com/geography/indianapolis-called-naptown-b1f1f28a80d6c956

[redsfanmia]

Downtown Indy was a dump before Hudnut revitalized it. The streets were empty on the weekend and after the businessmen left for home in the suburbs. I remember the stretch that Kingspoint was talking about, it was the same time as the Freezer bowl game.

[redsfanmia]

The National Sports festival in 1982 and the Pan Am games were huge in the evolution of Indy.

[Kingspoint]

Now that just has me shaking my head. I am a native Hoosier but I have traveled around quite a bit in my lifetime. Indy is/was never a boring town. You just didn't do your research!!!! LOL

Back to topic.

I tried. Like I said, that moonshine was amazing, but it might have left me forgetting what a good time I had.

[Kingspoint]

Downtown Indy was a dump before Hudnut revitalized it. The streets were empty on the weekend and after the businessmen left for home in the suburbs. I remember the stretch that Kingspoint was talking about, it was the same time as the Freezer bowl game.

When it finally got up to 32 degrees on January 1st, we all took our shirts off and had a game of tackle football. It was literally hot outside at 32 degrees. I had a fantastic time there, though. Might have had something to do with being around 1000's of women in their 20's all looking for a little adventure. You'd have to be a real dope not to enjoy life under those conditions.

[Assembly Hall]

Indy didn't get the name naptown for nothing

https://www.reference.com/geography/indianapolis-called-naptown-b1f1f28a80d6c956

Just think about how Indianapolis is pronounced. There is a nap in there somewhere. And there lies your answer. My Dad, who is a Navy vet, refers to Annapolis as "naptown".

[Chip R]

More bad news for Browns fans. Josh Gordon is going to rehab. Man, when it rains, it pours.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/browns-announce-josh-gordon-will-enter-rehab-facility-213844762.html

[Kingspoint]

Hue Jackson is building loyalty with "his" players, though.

[Sea Ray]

Just think about how Indianapolis is pronounced. There is a nap in there somewhere. And there lies your answer. My Dad, who is a Navy vet, refers to Annapolis as "naptown".

OK, there's that but my point is the other part of that definition:


Indianapolis has the nickname "Naptown" because throughout its history many people have viewed the city as a rather slow and not-so-exciting place.

[Assembly Hall]

OK, there's that but my point is the other part of that definition:

http://radio-indiana.com/20120619/all-indiana-what%E2%80%99s-in-a-nickname-naptown-says-a-lot/

[WrongVerb]

Browns moving on from Gordon:



Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet

#Browns coach Hue Jackson says at his presser on Josh Gordon: “We need to close that chapter right now.” They are moving on from him.
8:14am · 30 Sep 2016

Too bad Gordon can't be counted on to get his act together. Him across from Green would be sick.

[Boston Red]

More bad news for Browns fans. Josh Gordon is going to rehab. Man, when it rains, it pours.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/browns-announce-josh-gordon-will-enter-rehab-facility-213844762.html

With the Cavs winning the NBA title and the Indians winning the AL Central, it looks like the Browns are being forced to have an extra terrible year to make up for the other teams' success. For the sports world to stay in equilibrium, a certain amount of suck needs to emanate from Cleveland. These Browns are supplying a ton of it.

[Assembly Hall]

With the Cavs winning the NBA title and the Indians winning the AL Central, it looks like the Browns are being forced to have an extra terrible year to make up for the other teams' success. For the sports world to stay in equilibrium, a certain amount of suck needs to emanate from Cleveland. These Browns are supplying a ton of it.

Ever since you made that post my wheels have been turning in my brain. And finally it clicked, 1980 was the year. All 4 major sports teams from Philly made it to their prospective finals.

[WrongVerb]

Ever since you made that post my wheels have been turning in my brain. And finally it clicked, 1980 was the year. All 4 major sports teams from Philly made it to their prospective finals.

If the Giants get to the Works Series, that would make three out of four bay area teams' finals this year. The Warriors and Sharks both lost theirs.

[Assembly Hall]

If the Giants get to the Works Series, that would make three out of four bay area teams' finals this year. The Warriors and Sharks both lost theirs.

What is the "Works Series"? LOL

[WrongVerb]

What is the "Works Series"? LOL

My uncooperative tablet playing tricks on me again. Lol

[Assembly Hall]

My uncooperative tablet playing tricks on me again. Lol

You will have that!!!!!!! I knew what you meant just razzing ya!!!!!!!!

[kaldaniels]

Someone want to dissect Morrelli's "big hit and this will explode" remark? What context was there, and should I be concerned about refs calling things to tighten up a game? (Well I know the answer but was Morelli caught referring to it?)

[GAC]

Hue Jackson is building loyalty with "his" players, though.

Yep. I really like him. And can one blame him seeing the situation he came into with young players, like Manziel and Gilbert, who were getting themselves into trouble - whether it was with the law, drugs, partying, the whole lot. Gordon is a talented player, and I'm glad he's going into rehab - but can he get his act together? Let it be with some other team. Still too risky, and there's a point where one gets fed up either way.

And I'm hoping, keeping my fingers crossed, that it sends a message. Isaiah Crowell is very talented running back. But he got himself in trouble while starting for Georgia ...felony gun charge, failed drug test ... and it got him booted off the team. He transferred to Alabama State. Now he's kept his nose clean, been no issues so far, and has been doing a great job this year for the Browns.

But a coach still has to send a message that he's simply not going to put up with it, and one's patience only goes so far because these "distractions" do cause problems in that clubhouse.

And I'm really liking what I've seen from rookie QB Cody Kessler so far. Small window, but I'm impressed. And I give that credit to Jackson and what he's been doing with the offense.

We still gotta learn to finish games (LOL).... but 430 yds of offense vs Miami, and almost 400 total yards the other day vs Washington. We actually have a running game this year!

[Sea Ray]

Has Mike Brown pulled off his own version of letting the best coach leave with Mike Zimmer? His Dad made this mistake in the mid 70s with Bill Walsh. Is Mike Zimmer Mike Brown's Bill Walsh?

[Kingspoint]

Has Mike Brown pulled off his own version of letting the best coach leave with Mike Zimmer? His Dad made this mistake in the mid 70s with Bill Walsh. Is Mike Zimmer Mike Brown's Bill Walsh?

Without a doubt, but it's worse. Gregg was better than Marvin, and Gregg was let go to keep Whyche, whom I liked.

[Sea Ray]

Without a doubt, but it's worse. Gregg was better than Marvin, and Gregg was let go to keep Whyche, whom I liked.

Forrest Gregg was hired long after Bill Walsh was let go. Paul Brown hired Tiger Johnson over Bill Walsh. Sam Wyche was brought in from Indiana Univ to replace Gregg. I also liked Wyche but he was as I recall coming off a 1-10 season at IU

[Revering4Blue]

Forrest Gregg was hired long after Bill Walsh was let go. Paul Brown hired Tiger Johnson over Bill Walsh. Sam Wyche was brought in from Indiana Univ to replace Gregg. I also liked Wyche but he was as I recall coming off a 1-10 season at IU

3-8 in '83 at IU.

FWIW, Wyche, a Walsh disciple, also landed a solid '84 recruiting class for IU including eventual Michigan State/Houston Oiler RB Lorenzo White. Alas, several recruits, including White, went elsewhere in the wake of Wyche's departure. IMO, he could have been at least as successful at IU as Bill Mallory had the Bengals not come calling. But I believe that Wyche would have used IU as a stepping stone to either another NCAA HC job or the NFL, regardless (Mallory didn't due to his age).

Anyway, IIRC, it was considered a somewhat risky HC hire for the Bengals at that time, but obviously worked out quite well for both the Bengals and IU.

[Chip R]

Aquib Talib shot himself in the leg.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/report-police-believe-broncos-db-aqib-talib-shot-himself-in-the-leg-004520156.html

[GAC]

Aquib Talib shot himself in the leg.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/report-police-believe-broncos-db-aqib-talib-shot-himself-in-the-leg-004520156.html

Talib told Dallas police, “Everything was a blur and I was too intoxicated to remember what happened :rolleyes:

[bucksfan2]

Has Mike Brown pulled off his own version of letting the best coach leave with Mike Zimmer? His Dad made this mistake in the mid 70s with Bill Walsh. Is Mike Zimmer Mike Brown's Bill Walsh?

When you run a successful organization quality coaches end up leaving. I like Zimmer, really do, I still think the book is out on him as a "great" coach. A testament to both Marvin and the organization as a whole is the amount of assistants they have had get coaching jobs, only to replace them with guys who are hot coaches.

[Sea Ray]

When you run a successful organization quality coaches end up leaving. I like Zimmer, really do, I still think the book is out on him as a "great" coach. A testament to both Marvin and the organization as a whole is the amount of assistants they have had get coaching jobs, only to replace them with guys who are hot coaches.

No question the jury's out on him. Will he wear thin after a few years? My guess is that he'll turn out to be a better head coach than Marvin and MB missed the boat on this one.

[GAC]

Aquib Talib shot himself in the leg.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/report-police-believe-broncos-db-aqib-talib-shot-himself-in-the-leg-004520156.html

Obviously he went to the Plaxico Buress School On Handgun Control LOL

[GAC]

Now I thought this was a cool move by Brown's RB Crowell....

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ftw/2016/10/05/isaiah-crowell-donates-game-check-to-police-charity-after-antipolice-instagram-post/91636092/

[Sea Ray]

There was another egregious call in last night's MNF game. With 41s left the TB receiver caught the ball inbounds and was clearly tackled before getting to the sideline. The clock should have kept running but the officials said that he got out of bounds. The play was not even close. His knee hit inbounds and he never got any part of his body or the ball out of bounds. I don't think there's anything reviewable about this, particularly by a coach since it was in the last 2 mins. Honestly I don't get how the NFL screws up calls like this. Did anyone see this?

[Sea Ray]

Kaepernick has been named the starter by Chip Kelly.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/10/11/colin-kaepernick-back-in-the-starting-lineup-for-the-49ers/

[Kingspoint]

Viewership is down 11%.

[Joseph]

Viewership is down 11%.

Good.

[Kingspoint]

Good.

Go Hawks!

[BuckeyeRed27]

Viewership is down 11%.

Honestly the prime time games just haven't been very good. Actually the football in general hasn't been very good. The game has no flow, there is a penalty after every play, there is no celebration and it has sucked all the joy out of the game.

Adding football to Thursday night has proven to be a bad idea, since the game is always awful and it takes the focus away from Sunday, which people have traditionally set aside for football.

I also think college football ratings have been steady or up this year for the most part and it is really hard to dedicate both days on a weekend to watching football, particularly if you are married and have kids and the NFL isn't exactly kid friendly.

[cumberlandreds]

Viewership is down 11%.

I have watched very little NFL this season. Probably less than hours worth.

[Revering4Blue]

There was another egregious call in last night's MNF game. With 41s left the TB receiver caught the ball inbounds and was clearly tackled before getting to the sideline. The clock should have kept running but the officials said that he got out of bounds. The play was not even close. His knee hit inbounds and he never got any part of his body or the ball out of bounds. I don't think there's anything reviewable about this, particularly by a coach since it was in the last 2 mins. Honestly I don't get how the NFL screws up calls like this. Did anyone see this?

I really don't understand the reasoning that, given replay at the ref's disposal, only certain calls are review-able. Then again, given the outrageous calls (even following review) that certainly should have been reversed that have occurred quite often this year, who knows if the call would have been reversed.

Anyway you look at it --- and I say this as someone who firmly believes that a team should score enough points/make the key stops when it has a chance, and not place itself the mercy of the refs --- it's indefensible. What's the point of replay when egregious calls are not overturned? May as well go back to back to the pre-replay days when the chances of teams as likely to get hosed by the call balanced the chances of teams benefiting from questionable calls....and we'd save time.

[Revering4Blue]

Kaepernick has been named the starter by Chip Kelly.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/10/11/colin-kaepernick-back-in-the-starting-lineup-for-the-49ers/

IMHO, even though it may not save the Niners' season, it's about time. Looking forward to their matchup with Tyrod Taylor. Given the offenses both respective teams employ, it has a college "feel" to it, even though NFL traditionalists may not care for it.

[Revering4Blue]

Honestly the prime time games just haven't been very good. Actually the football in general hasn't been very good. The game has no flow, there is a penalty after every play, there is no celebration and it has sucked all the joy out of the game.

Adding football to Thursday night has proven to be a bad idea, since the game is always awful and it takes the focus away from Sunday, which people have traditionally set aside for football.

I also think college football ratings have been steady or up this year for the most part and it is really hard to dedicate both days on a weekend to watching football, particularly if you are married and have kids and the NFL isn't exactly kid friendly.

A spot-on post, IMO.

Even if one (as I am) is single (no live-in girlfriend) with no children, you still need time on weekends to accomplish functional tasks...like homework.

I also believe that many fans -- especially of teams that have started out slowly -- have checked out, as they realize that parity, one of the NFL's top selling points, is, and has been, a canard.

[Chip R]

I read - I think it was on The Ringer - that usually in an election year, NFL ratings are down. Maybe that's it. :dunno:

[Sea Ray]

I really don't understand the reasoning that, given replay at the ref's disposal, only certain calls are review-able. Then again, given the outrageous calls (even following review) that certainly should have been reversed that have occurred quite often this year, who knows if the call would have been reversed.

Anyway you look at it --- and I say this as someone who firmly believes that a team should score enough points/make the key stops when it has a chance, and not place itself the mercy of the refs --- it's indefensible. What's the point of replay when egregious calls are not overturned? May as well go back to back to the pre-replay days when the chances of teams as likely to get hosed by the call balanced the chances of teams benefiting from questionable calls....and we'd save time.

Replay is part of the issue here but really this call was so obvious, how did the official miss it to begin with? This was not a toughie. It's the last minute of a close game. Getting out of bounds is huge.

Canadian football allows you to review anything including pass interference calls. I want no part of that. Can you imagine how long our games would be if coaches could challenge the call or no call of PI and holding?

[bucksfan2]

Replay is part of the issue here but really this call was so obvious, how did the official miss it to begin with? This was not a toughie. It's the last minute of a close game. Getting out of bounds is huge.

Canadian football allows you to review anything including pass interference calls. I want no part of that. Can you imagine how long our games would be if coaches could challenge the call or no call of PI and holding?

I will try my hand at this. When the NFL started to replay every turn over and scoring play, the officials were told to call the game a little more liberal, letting plays play out instead of blowing them dead. It works when you review scoring plays and turnovers, but on plays like the Tyler Boyd where the zebra couldn't use logic and needed 1000000% proof that his knee was down, you get bad calls. But to further that point, they officials call the game looser, especially on plays that aren't reviewable, or don't make sense to review. IMO it has change the way the game is officiated, and not for the better.

FWIW I am in favor of reviewing personal foul calls when what is called obviously didn't happen.

[Revering4Blue]

RIP, Fulton Walker.

QB David Woodley and LB Larry Gordon, Walker's Super Bowl XVII teammates, previously passed away in in 2003 and 1983, respectively.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDSoyeA-fh0

[Chip R]

RIP, Fulton Walker.

QB David Woodley and LB Larry Gordon, Walker's Super Bowl XVII teammates, previously passed away in in 2003 and 1983, respectively.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDSoyeA-fh0

:(

[RichRed]

Man, I remember that Fulton Walker kickoff return like it was yesterday. It was the first ever kickoff return TD in a Super Bowl, and I figured my Redskins were in for a long day after that, but they came away with the win. Sorry to read the news about Walker.

[puca]

What struck me while watching that video is the size of the shoulder pads.

[cumberlandreds]

RIP, Fulton Walker.

QB David Woodley and LB Larry Gordon, Walker's Super Bowl XVII teammates, previously passed away in in 2003 and 1983, respectively.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDSoyeA-fh0

I'm sorry to hear this too. I remember that return very well. Also I didn't know David Woodley had died. Wow! RIP

[KronoRed]

What struck me while watching that video is the size of the shoulder pads.

Same here, these days it's hard to tell if some players are even wearing pads.

[Assembly Hall]

Sorry to hear that about Walker. The SB was something else because of all the nick names. IIRC the Dolphins had "Woodstrock", "The Killer B's", and the "Bruise Brothers". The 'Skins had the "Fun Bunch", "Smurfs", and "Rigginomics". I am getting old.

RIP Fulton

[RichRed]

Sorry to hear that about Walker. The SB was something else because of all the nick names. IIRC the Dolphins had "Woodstrock", "The Killer B's", and the "Bruise Brothers". The 'Skins had the "Fun Bunch", "Smurfs", and "Rigginomics". I am getting old.

RIP Fulton

And of course, "the Hogs."

[WrongVerb]

That end of the Falcons Seahawks game. PI no call decided the outcome. I'm a Hawks fan as my second team but that get a lot of calls going their way.

[Chip R]

Giants kicker Josh Brown has been placed on the commissioner's exempt list.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/report-giants-to-place-josh-brown-on-commissioners-exempt-list-191643839.html

[Slyder]

Giants kicker Josh Brown has been placed on the commissioner's exempt list.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/report-giants-to-place-josh-brown-on-commissioners-exempt-list-191643839.html

They should have cut him immediately, punter/kickers (outside of select few) are interchangable.

[Kingspoint]

And they still haven't cut him. It makes me think that there's someone else more important in the organization who has the same issues, but the story hasn't reached the media, yet. I mean this has been going on with Josh Brown for years and years, apparently.

[Tom Servo]

Deadspin did a whole thing months ago when the reports first surfaced about how Brown has a chronic history of domestic violence. It is beyond baffling why the Giants, or the NFL, let it get this far.

[Chip R]

Deadspin did a whole thing months ago when the reports first surfaced about how Brown has a chronic history of domestic violence. It is beyond baffling why the Giants, or the NFL, let it get this far.

It's simple. No video.

[Chip R]

Geno Smith has a torn ACL. I bet Broadway Joe is feeling lower than a snake's belly now considering what he tweeted yesterday.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/report-jets-quarterback-geno-smith-suffered-a-torn-right-acl-180347673.html

[Sea Ray]

Geno Smith has a torn ACL. I bet Broadway Joe is feeling lower than a snake's belly now considering what he tweeted yesterday.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/report-jets-quarterback-geno-smith-suffered-a-torn-right-acl-180347673.html

I wonder which of the Jets remaining 3 QBs will get starts this year? They may go to Fitz this week but I gotta think they'll be looking beyond this year pretty soon

[ScotlandRed]

At least we're not the Texans. Stuck under a huge contract with Osweiler. Madness giving him that in the first place

[Sea Ray]

I do NOT like Osweiler's mechanics. Very slow release and three quarters at that which among other things kinda negates his size advantage. A little late to rework mechanics.

[Chip R]

The Giants have released kicker Josh Brown.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/giants-finally-release-josh-brown-john-mara-cites-teams-misguided-actions-184548986.html

[Chip R]

Wanna get away?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwCNAgLUAAAVe9R.jpg

[WrongVerb]

Very un-Browns like:



Adam Schefter Verified account
‏@AdamSchefter

Blockbuster deal: Patriots traded LB Jamie Collins to Cleveland for a compensatory third-round pick, sources tell ESPN.

12:28 PM - 31 Oct 2016

[WrongVerb]

And while we're at it:



Adam Schefter Verified account
‏@AdamSchefter

Titans WR Andre Johnson is retiring today, per source.

10:09 AM - 31 Oct 2016

[Tom Servo]

Very un-Browns like:
what to heck

[WrongVerb]

what to heck

This:



Adam Schefter
@AdamSchefter

With Jamie Collins contract coming up, he was at one point asking for what one league source described as “Von Miller money." Von: 6-$114.5M
9:57am · 31 Oct 2016

Combined with this:



michael lombardi
@mlombardifoxtv

Collins on the second play of the game does whatever he wants and Bills gain 28 yards. Been happening all year. It was not going to continue
9:45am · 31 Oct 2016

Could lead to this:



Adam Schefter
@AdamSchefter

Jamie Collins in last year of contract. Becomes prime candidate for Cleveland's franchise tag - if Browns don't sign him to big deal first.
9:42am · 31 Oct 2016

Maybe more Browns-like than we thought.

[Tom Servo]

This:



Combined with this:



Could lead to this:



Maybe more Browns-like than we thought.
I think it's a great move for the Browns to land an impact player, it's just such a weird move by New England. But obviously Belichick is playing 3D Chess at all times.

[Boston Red]

It's amazing that the Vikings have managed to go from great to dreadful so quickly.

[bucksfan2]

It's amazing that the Vikings have managed to go from great to dreadful so quickly.

When you rely on your defense to score you are going to get into trouble.

[Kingspoint]

When you rely on your defense to score you are going to get into trouble.

Yes. The Offense has been dreadful from the beginning. You can't lose for the season at the start of the season and not be horrible.

As amazingly as Zimmer has done with his Defense (other than the hickup yesterday,...I gaurantee anyone that the Vikings still have the best Defense in the league and pity whomever they play next), is the job John Fox and his D.C., Vic Fangio, has done with an injury-depleted and talent-depleted Defense. They're playing very well over the last four games, but with just this one win to show for it. Credit goes to Offensive Coordinator Dowell, Loggains and O-Line Coordinator Dave Magazu for the job they did last night. With their two best O-Linemen missing, Guards Kyle Long and Josh Sitton, and terrible play coming from both Tackles on the season, and a new Center to replace their departed Pro Bowler, they managed to put together an inspiring effort in run-blocking against the NFL's best run-stopping unit. They also had to decide who would get the carries with Langford, Carey and Howard all healthy. As of this post, the Bears' depth chart still has it listed as Langford-Carey-Howard.

Chicago's biggest issue has been with Drafting, Free Agency, and not recognizing how much Jay Cutler sucks as both a leader and a player.

[Kingspoint]

19 Cornerback transactions as of last Monday (don't know how many they've made in the last seven days, but I'm sure there were at least two) since Carolina removed the franchise-tag from Josh Norman, and their Pass Defense keeps getting worse. 400 yds passing against them is the norm now.

Apparently, you can't just plug-and-play Defenders into the Secondary of this Defense.

[Sea Ray]

Yes. The Offense has been dreadful from the beginning. You can't lose for the season at the start of the season and not be horrible.

As amazingly as Zimmer has done with his Defense (other than the hickup yesterday,...I gaurantee anyone that the Vikings still have the best Defense in the league and pity whomever they play next), is the job John Fox and his D.C., Vic Fangio, has done with an injury-depleted and talent-depleted Defense. They're playing very well over the last four games, but with just this one win to show for it. Credit goes to Offensive Coordinator Dowell, Loggains and O-Line Coordinator Dave Magazu for the job they did last night. With their two best O-Linemen missing, Guards Kyle Long and Josh Sitton, and terrible play coming from both Tackles on the season, and a new Center to replace their departed Pro Bowler, they managed to put together an inspiring effort in run-blocking against the NFL's best run-stopping unit. They also had to decide who would get the carries with Langford, Carey and Howard all healthy. As of this post, the Bears' depth chart still has it listed as Langford-Carey-Howard.

Chicago's biggest issue has been with Drafting, Free Agency, and not recognizing how much Jay Cutler sucks as both a leader and a player.

The Bears did beat the Detroit Lions a few weeks ago

[Kingspoint]

The Bears did beat the Detroit Lions a few weeks ago

They almost beat the Jags 2 weeks ago, too. They came into the season a bottom-3 tem.

[Chip R]

Speaking of the Vikings, Norv Turner has resigned as Vikings OC

http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0585476675286865133-4

[Chip R]

An interesting survey of NFL players about pot.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/espns-nfl-player-poll-about-marijuana-had-some-surprising-results-184535965.html

[Kingspoint]

Speaking of the Vikings, Norv Turner has resigned as Vikings OC

http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0585476675286865133-4

"Resigned". O.K.

Zimmer doesn't believe in excuses from anybody.

Vikings lose Peterson. Fine.

They lose their Pro Bowl Center. Fine.

All three of their Right Tackles are terrible. Fine.

They lose Bridgewater. Fine. They pay heavily to trade for the QB who was the QB Coach of him both in Philly and St. Louis.

They lose their Starting RT. He wasn't playing well anyway. Fine.

Vikings have a bye Week 5.

Zimmer's orders: "You're continually given great field position. Our Defense scores points and keeps the score close so you can be balanced and not one-dimensional. You need to do better."

Vikings only score 10 points against the Vikings and Eagles having wasted the opportunity to get better during the bye.

Zimmer's livid and his tone shows it.

Turner was retiring at the end of the year anyway and perhaps Zimmer let him know that he's been coaching like he's already retired, so why not make it official.

Turner out. Bradford's long-time QB's Coach in.

Get ready for the Lions.

How I so wish Zimmer was Head Coach of the Bengals.

[Tom Servo]

Two Eagles possessions and two just awful interceptions thrown by Carson Wentz.

[Chip R]

Big Ben is back and he looked like crap. The rest of the Steelers didn't look too good either.
https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/7419137/failkick.0.gif

[WrongVerb]

Saints and 49ers showing what happens when neither team plays defense. Over 800 combined yards and 36 first downs with over a quarter yet to play.

[Slyder]

Is there any debate that Seattle has moved into the NFL protected list with the Pats and Steelers?

[Sea Ray]

Is there any debate that Seattle has moved into the NFL protected list with the Pats and Steelers?

Why did the officials stay over the ball until 5 secs were left on the play clock? Did we ever get an explanation of that?

[bucksfan2]

Is there any debate that Seattle has moved into the NFL protected list with the Pats and Steelers?

I don't have a dog in the fight, I probably wanted Seattle to win because it would help my team, but how do you miss that call before half?

It happened in a Bengals game where the ref was unable to stop a play he should have, the defender continued and knocked the QB over, and was flagged.

The ref last night made two mistakes, first all not blowing the play dead loud enough, or stepping in and stopping the play at lease. Then he missed a clear, blatant, late hit to the kicker. How can you miss that? How can you huddle, look like a bunch of idiots, and miss the call?

The NFL wants to know what viewership is down, its clown acts by these refs that rub me the wrong way.

[WrongVerb]

Seattle is definitely protected. And I say that as a fan of the team.

To be honest, this appearance of favoritism by referees is killing my interest in the NFL as a whole.

And I'll make my prediction again: in the Bengals/Giants game on Monday night, the Bengals will be on the short end of 3-5 questionable calls by officials that help decide the game in the Giants favor.

[Bob Sheed]

Seattle is definitely protected. And I say that as a fan of the team.

To be honest, this appearance of favoritism by referees is killing my interest in the NFL as a whole.

And I'll make my prediction again: in the Bengals/Giants game on Monday night, the Bengals will be on the short end of 3-5 questionable calls by officials that help decide the game in the Giants favor.

And Beckham Jr. Will shake those golden locks, official spokesman of the NFL for Head and Shoulders that he is.

Cha-ching.

[Redsfaithful]

Is there any debate that Seattle has moved into the NFL protected list with the Pats and Steelers?

Yeah, I've posted before my favorite thought experiment is if you describe what happened without naming teams, how many fans would think the Bills were the beneficiary there?

Everyone would correctly pick Seattle.

It may be nothing, but it's weird.

[WrongVerb]

Yeah, I've posted before my favorite thought experiment is if you describe what happened without naming teams, how many fans would think the Bills were the beneficiary there?

Everyone would correctly pick Seattle.

It may be nothing, but it's weird.

This is two weeks after Sherman basically pulled Julio Jones' arm behind his back while he was trying to make a catch that would set up Atlanta for a game winning field goal. Sherman wasn't called for holding or PI, despite how blatant it was.

[bucksfan2]

This is two weeks after Sherman basically pulled Julio Jones' arm behind his back while he was trying to make a catch that would set up Atlanta for a game winning field goal. Sherman wasn't called for holding or PI, despite how blatant it was.

I heard an explanation that the refs who were in charge of making that call could have been blocked due to positioning. I don't know if I buy it, just an explanation. I hate, and they do it from time to time, but hate when a ref throws a flag anticipating what will happen.

The problem with the Sherman play was it was so blatant what happened that you had to be incompetent not to make a call. This is what I don't understand. Sherman was off sides and unabated to the kicker, that is undeniable and the off sides should have been called (it was) and the play should have been blown dead. Once that happens the K isn't allowed to be hit, which Sherman obviously did. Now secondly, had the ref rulled that the play was to continue, Sherman roughed the kicker without touching the ball. So in essence you had an easy call that needed to be made because it was absolutely the only action on the play. How can a ref miss a corner blitzer who is off sides and knocks the kicker down?

I don't think the NFL is blatantly fixed, I do however think a handful of teams (and players) are the beneficiaries of calls (or non calls.) When you get those calls, it makes it more difficult for the opponent to win games. The Bills would have had a chance to kick a chip shot FG to tie the game, but because of incompetence were forced to go for a TD.

[WrongVerb]

And Beckham Jr. Will shake those golden locks, official spokesman of the NFL for Head and Shoulders that he is.

Cha-ching.

The fix is in:



Jay Morrison
@JayMorrisonCMG

Monday night's referee is John Parry.
Fourth time in 12 games he's worked a #Bengals game, an inordinate frequency.
Media preview
9:17am · 9 Nov 2016

[Tom Servo]

Thom is calling Jets/Rams and says a play kept it as a "three run game". Must miss the Reds.

And now I think he just called Matt Forte "Will Forte". Maybe he's just not good at his job.

[KronoRed]

Why would anyone want to watch the Jets/Rams?

[dabvu2498]

I feel dirty rooting for the Cowboys, but I really like Dak Prescott.

[Revering4Blue]

I feel dirty rooting for the Cowboys, but I really like Dak Prescott.

Romo's been Wally Pipped.

[Tom Servo]

I feel dirty rooting for the Cowboys, but I really like Dak Prescott.
I didn't see what more NFL draft guys wanted from him in college, I thought he looked legit at Mississippi State.

[KronoRed]

Romo's been Wally Pipped.

Someone tell Jerry Jones.

[RichRed]

I feel dirty rooting for the Cowboys, but I really like Dak Prescott.

As a Skins fan, the thought of watching the Dak and Zeke show over the next decade makes me queasy.

[bucksfan2]

Romo's been Wally Pipped.

I may be the odd man out here, but I think Romo gives the Cowboys a better chance to advance in the playoffs. I think you will see Prescot and Zeke begin to hit a rookie wall soon.

[Slyder]

I may be the odd man out here, but I think Romo gives the Cowboys a better chance to advance in the playoffs. I think you will see Prescot and Zeke begin to hit a rookie wall soon.

If #nothingwithoutJimmah makes them play Romo for any reason besides injury or real ineffectiveness then they deserve all the laughs they get. Best case for Romo is come back and plays maybe a game or 2 and gets hurt again. He's past his prime and you can't expect him to stay healthy. Prescott gives them the best chance to win with his improv ability.

[bucksfan2]

If #nothingwithoutJimmah makes them play Romo for any reason besides injury or real ineffectiveness then they deserve all the laughs they get. Best case for Romo is come back and plays maybe a game or 2 and gets hurt again. He's past his prime and you can't expect him to stay healthy. Prescott gives them the best chance to win with his improv ability.

I am not disputing anything here. Truthfully I think Romo is the better QB, I think Romo is a more boom or bust QB, I think Romo is a guy who will lead you on a game winner one game and then throw a devastating INT the next. Prescot is doing a fantastic job of managing the game, relying on Zeke and the offensive line, and making the key throws when he needs to. His mobility also has been a huge key, I think people too often sell a QB's ability go gain 5 yards here or there because of their legs.

There was a time a few years ago when Nick Foles went an entire season throwing 2 INT's. I am not saying Dak is a Nick Foles type of QB, but come January and I had to win a big game, I am not so sure that Romo isn't the QB who I would chose.

[Slyder]

I am not disputing anything here. Truthfully I think Romo is the better QB, I think Romo is a more boom or bust QB, I think Romo is a guy who will lead you on a game winner one game and then throw a devastating INT the next. Prescot is doing a fantastic job of managing the game, relying on Zeke and the offensive line, and making the key throws when he needs to. His mobility also has been a huge key, I think people too often sell a QB's ability go gain 5 yards here or there because of their legs.

There was a time a few years ago when Nick Foles went an entire season throwing 2 INT's. I am not saying Dak is a Nick Foles type of QB, but come January and I had to win a big game, I am not so sure that Romo isn't the QB who I would chose.

Sometimes its better to be too young to not know any better.

[Chip R]

Sometimes its better to be too young to not know any better.

That's a great point. Not that I think playing QB in the NFL is easy but I don't think it's rocket science or it's as tough as the media make it out to be. Guys like Wentz and Prescott have succeeded since Day 1. Coaches call the plays and if you can make the throws, you should have success.

[Kingspoint]

That's a great point. Not that I think playing QB in the NFL is easy but I don't think it's rocket science or it's as tough as the media make it out to be. Guys like Wentz and Prescott have succeeded since Day 1. Coaches call the plays and if you can make the throws, you should have success.

Mariota is making it look easy.

[bucksfan2]

That's a great point. Not that I think playing QB in the NFL is easy but I don't think it's rocket science or it's as tough as the media make it out to be. Guys like Wentz and Prescott have succeeded since Day 1. Coaches call the plays and if you can make the throws, you should have success.

Wentz has fallen back to earth here lately.

Mariota looks good, however he is in his second season, a little bit of a difference.

[Chip R]

Wentz has fallen back to earth here lately.

Mariota looks good, however he is in his second season, a little bit of a difference.

That is true but both stepped in when they were rookies and weren't complete trainwrecks. It seems to me the transition is more mental than physical and the more a coach can do to take the mental burden off his QB, the better he will perform.

[Kingspoint]

Since entering the league in 2015, Marcus Mariota has never thrown a red-zone interception. He's thrown for 30 touchdowns in the red zone with a ridiculous 116.3 quarterback rating and an equally marvelous 65.4 completion percentage. Mariota has already asserted himself as one of the game's best finishers and has fumbled just once while taking two sacks inside the red zone.

[Chip R]

Tony Romo has given Dak Prescott his support to be the Cowboys starter.

[Dom Heffner]

Anyone following the little hints that Roethlisberger is dropping about the coaching staff and practices having a negative impact on them?

Something to the effect of "I know we're the Pittsburgh Steelers" but the hard practices are taking a toll.

He is awful from many perspectives, but that's a leader right there.

[Chip R]

Anyone following the little hints that Roethlisberger is dropping about the coaching staff and practices having a negative impact on them?

Something to the effect of "I know we're the Pittsburgh Steelers" but the hard practices are taking a toll.

He is awful from many perspectives, but that's a leader right there.

Wasn't he saying that earlier in the season?

[Dom Heffner]

Wasn't he saying that earlier in the season?

And he called out the coaches again Sunday.

[Tom Servo]

Steelers and Packers should trade head coaches.

[WrongVerb]

Anyone see the end to the first half of the Steelers Browns game? Refs gave the Steelers two extra chances to punch the ball in with no time left and the Steelers finally capitalized. I can't remember ever seeing anything like that.

[Wonderful Monds]

Right now the Eagles WRs have a combined 15 yds.

Russell Wilson also has 15 receiving yds. with a TD (catch) on top of it

[Kingspoint]

Anyone see the end to the first half of the Steelers Browns game? Refs gave the Steelers two extra chances to punch the ball in with no time left and the Steelers finally capitalized. I can't remember ever seeing anything like that.

Steelers vs Seahawks in the Superbowl.

[WVRed]

Anyone see the end to the first half of the Steelers Browns game? Refs gave the Steelers two extra chances to punch the ball in with no time left and the Steelers finally capitalized. I can't remember ever seeing anything like that.

Saw Cody Kessler get four concussions on one dirty hit.

[SteelSD]

Anyone see the end to the first half of the Steelers Browns game? Refs gave the Steelers two extra chances to punch the ball in with no time left and the Steelers finally capitalized. I can't remember ever seeing anything like that.

Did you actually see the muggings that led to the penalties or is it tough to get NFL video in New Zealand?


Steelers vs Seahawks in the Superbowl.

Yeah, well, you also think that NFL rules state that a player should receive a penalty for helmet-to-helmet contact after not actually hitting another player...

[GAC]

Did you actually see the muggings that led to the penalties or is it tough to get NFL video in New Zealand?

And you're right. I watched the Browns-Steelers game, and in that situation, both penalties (calls) were warranted against the Browns. No doubt whatsoever. And they did the right thing in accordance with the NFL rules when there is no time left on the clock.

Yep... the hapless Browns find a way to screw themselves even when there ain't no time on the clock! LOL

[SteelSD]

And you're right. I watched the Browns-Steelers game, and in that situation, both penalties (calls) were warranted against the Browns. No doubt whatsoever. And they did the right thing in accordance with the NFL rules when there is no time left on the clock.

Yep... the hapless Browns find a way to screw themselves even when there ain't no time on the clock! LOL

The hilarious thing is that the whole time I was yelling "KICK THE FIELD GOAL!!" at the screen. I was pretty sure after the first penalty that Tomlin would take the points to make it a two score game at halftime, but nooo... Then, after the second penalty, I kept looking for the offense to leave the field for the kicking team, but again, nope. Tomlin is all sorts of ballsy (to the point of being dumb) about going for additional points. Yeah, it worked out against the Browns, but he kept chasing missed two point conversions the week before against the Cowboys and that didn't work out too well.

I was impressed by Terrelle Pryor, BTW. His route running has really improved. Locked the DB's ankles up on the first long catch he had. Had that been thrown to the sideline rather than inside, that may have gone for a score. He did a great job coming back for the second one that set the Browns up at the 1 on the 4th and 9 situation.

[Chip R]

I know some of you watched that KC DEN game last night. I'm also guessing you know how it ended. One of the officials wasn't quite sure the kick went through. My question is, is there replay on whether a kick went through the uprights? I would think so and 99.9999% of the time, the officials can easily tell. But what about a situation like last night or if there's fog or snow or rain and it's tough to tell? If there is replay, is it from the booth or does a coach have to call for it?

[19braves77]

I thought you could only review a FG if the ball makes contact with the fieldgoal post.

[Joseph]

Damn I love these Raiders.

[bucksfan2]

Damn I love these Raiders.

They are fun to watch, but I don't like Del Rio.

[Chip R]

I thought you could only review a FG if the ball makes contact with the fieldgoal post.

Yeah, I don't know. IIRC, there was some controversy recently over a kick that went directly over the upright and the resulting call. I can't remember if it was college or the NFL.

[bucksfan2]

Yeah, I don't know. IIRC, there was some controversy recently over a kick that went directly over the upright and the resulting call. I can't remember if it was college or the NFL.

There was some controversy over a Browns FG kick a few seasons ago.

[Assembly Hall]

I just came across this article concerning Aaron Rodgers......

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/report-aaron-rodgers-off-the-field-issues-come-to-light/

[Sea Ray]

I just came across this article concerning Aaron Rodgers......

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/report-aaron-rodgers-off-the-field-issues-come-to-light/

This is old news to those who are fans of the Bachelor which I'm ashamed to say my wife and daughter are...:redface:

[Assembly Hall]

This is old news to those who are fans of the Bachelor which I'm ashamed to say my wife and daughter are...:redface:

SR....I am ashamed to say that I watched it when a local boy from my area was on there!!!!!

[WrongVerb]

Rashaan Salem dead at 42 in apparent suicide (http://www.dailycamera.com/cu-college-sports/ci_30634680/rashaan-salaam-found-dead-boulder).

Wouldn't surprise me a bit if CTE played a role.

[Assembly Hall]

Rashaan Salem dead at 42 in apparent suicide (http://www.dailycamera.com/cu-college-sports/ci_30634680/rashaan-salaam-found-dead-boulder).

Wouldn't surprise me a bit if CTE played a role.

Just a shame......way too young.

[Kingspoint]

How does Chip Kelly not get fined at least $250K for tanking? He left little doubt on Sunday after obvious displays throughout the season.

Could be the same reasons that Fisher and Lewis still have jobs. The NFL has no integrity.

[WVRed]

How does Chip Kelly not get fined at least $250K for tanking? He left little doubt on Sunday after obvious displays throughout the season.

Could be the same reasons Marvin Lewis still has a job. The NFL has no integrity

Fixed that for you.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18263718/jeff-fisher-fired-coach-st-louis-rams

[Sea Ray]

Fixed that for you.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18263718/jeff-fisher-fired-coach-st-louis-rams

Seems really strange to fire a head coach on a short week. I wonder what's the scoop behind this?

[WVRed]

Seems really strange to fire a head coach on a short week. I wonder what's the scoop behind this?

He's pissed off a lot of people within the Rams organization, from Eric Dickerson to the GM. Not to mention LA fans aren't as forgiving as St Louis when it comes to Fisher and his mediocrity.

Part of me wouldn't be shocked if the Bengals hired Fisher if they finally decide to move on from Marvin and the Rams hire Jim Harbaugh.

[Chip R]

Seems really strange to fire a head coach on a short week. I wonder what's the scoop behind this?

Especially after he got an extension. Here's an article from MMQB comparing the goings on in the Rams front office to a junior high school.

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/12/08/los-angeles-rams-junior-high-jeff-fisher-les-snead-problem

[Kingspoint]

Seems really strange to fire a head coach on a short week. I wonder what's the scoop behind this?

From Rotoworld:

In a cruel, ironic twist for the NFL's pre-eminent loser, the firing comes three days before he was set to pass Dan Reeves for the most coaching losses in league history. Fisher is so inept he can't even claim the record that's been his destiny for over a decade. The firing is perhaps the most justified of the modern era. Fisher has had five years to turn around a laughingstock franchise, but instead made it an even bigger joke. Fisher's team had truly made zero progress on his first year in 2012. A wanton waster of draft picks and capital, Fisher is clueless on Sundays, fundamentally misunderstanding offense and overseeing a cavalcade of idiotic penalties. Fisher doesn't make adjustments, aside from usually dialing up more personal fouls in the second half. Try as he may, he never came close to "cleaning up" his chronic, myriad, inexcusable mistakes. No coach, in any sport anywhere in the world, makes more excuses. Fisher has almost certainly coached his final NFL game.

[WrongVerb]

He's pissed off a lot of people within the Rams organization, from Eric Dickerson to the GM. Not to mention LA fans aren't as forgiving as St Louis when it comes to Fisher and his mediocrity.

Part of me wouldn't be shocked if the Bengals hired Fisher if they finally decide to move on from Marvin and the Rams hire Jim Harbaugh.

8-8 here we come!

[WVRed]

From Rotoworld:

In a cruel, ironic twist for the NFL's pre-eminent loser, the firing comes three days before he was set to pass Dan Reeves for the most coaching losses in league history. Fisher is so inept he can't even claim the record that's been his destiny for over a decade. The firing is perhaps the most justified of the modern era. Fisher has had five years to turn around a laughingstock franchise, but instead made it an even bigger joke. Fisher's team had truly made zero progress on his first year in 2012. A wanton waster of draft picks and capital, Fisher is clueless on Sundays, fundamentally misunderstanding offense and overseeing a cavalcade of idiotic penalties. Fisher doesn't make adjustments, aside from usually dialing up more personal fouls in the second half. Try as he may, he never came close to "cleaning up" his chronic, myriad, inexcusable mistakes. No coach, in any sport anywhere in the world, makes more excuses. Fisher has almost certainly coached his final NFL game.

Yet he has been the only coach who has ever kept the Titans relevant and got them to a Super Bowl.

I really see a Jeff Fisher-Mike Brown marriage in the near future (not literally)

[Sea Ray]

Yet he has been the only coach who has ever kept the Titans relevant and got them to a Super Bowl.

I really see a Jeff Fisher-Mike Brown marriage in the near future (not literally)

Where'd you get the impression that the Rams could get Harbaugh? As for the Bengals, I've seen nothing that leads me to believe that Marvin will not be here next year.

[WVRed]

Where'd you get the impression that the Rams could get Harbaugh? As for the Bengals, I've seen nothing that leads me to believe that Marvin will not be here next year.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/jim-harbaugh-la-rams-jeff-fisher-stan-kroenke-next-coach-salary-record-121216.amp.html

https://www.google.com/amp/www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/in-a-town-for-winners-only-jim-harbaugh-has-to-be-the-rams-next-coach/amp/

[Sea Ray]

https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/jim-harbaugh-la-rams-jeff-fisher-stan-kroenke-next-coach-salary-record-121216.amp.html

https://www.google.com/amp/www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/in-a-town-for-winners-only-jim-harbaugh-has-to-be-the-rams-next-coach/amp/

Those articles are nothing more than fodder from sports writers. One even admitted it'd take $10-15mill/yr. There's no indication that Harbaugh is looking to leave. If he was going to leave MI, Indy would make much more sense. He has connections there and Andrew Luck. I doubt he's going anywhere right now

[Chip R]

So, remember last week players could customize their cleats to advertise their charitable causes? Philadelphia Eagles WR Dorial Green-Beckham has been watching too many Seinfeld episodes.

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j11/10cowife/blogpics/card3.jpg

http://www.sbnation.com/2016/12/4/13834550/dorial-green-beckham-kanye-west-yeezy-cleats-charity-eagles-nfl

[WrongVerb]

The Cleveland Browns last won an NFL game exactly one year ago today.

Their quarterback: Johnny Manziel.

[Stray]

Just brutal injuries for Mariota and Carr yesterday. I thought the Raiders might have something for NE in the playoffs too.

[JaxRed]

I was watching the Titans game. I have not gone back to look at replays of the hit on Mariota to see what happened. But when it happened they showed it and replayed it once because it was a sack. Did not look like a play where someone had gotten hurt.

[Slyder]

Just brutal injuries for Mariota and Carr yesterday. I thought the Raiders might have something for NE in the playoffs too.

In McGloin I trust. He gets an opportunity to make himself some money. I've always like McGloin, hopefully he can be like former Moutaineer (and fellow Nittany Lion) Jeff Hostetler.

[ScotlandRed]

Watching Ravens v Steelers. Ryan Shazier had another helmet on helmet personal foul and the disgust in the commentators voice very notable. They didn't sound happy.

[Stray]

I hate the Steelers man.

[Slyder]

Kubiak is coaching like he's never coached above pee wee.

[JaxRed]

Black Monday one week away. Obviously 2 are down already but I don't get a sense that many more are going down. I say only 1. (either Jets or Bills)

[Tom Servo]

Black Monday one week away. Obviously 2 are down already but I don't get a sense that many more are going down. I say only 1. (either Jets or Bills)
Mike McCoy looks like a total goner.

[WrongVerb]

What do you all make of the Mike Zimmer situation in Minnesota? Is he losing control of the team?

[JaxRed]

What do you all make of the Mike Zimmer situation in Minnesota? Is he losing control of the team?

I think not. (just a guess). Just some frustrations at seeing their season slip away. Trading that first for Bradford doesn't look so hot now.

[Puffy]

I think not. (just a guess). Just some frustrations at seeing their season slip away. Trading that first for Bradford doesn't look so hot now.

It did not look that hot when they did it originally! A first for Bradford is just nuts with all data we have on him. Just a panic move, IMO

[Stray]

Don't Newman and Zimmer go way, wayyyy back to Zimmer's Dallas DC days? Seems really weird that Newman would lead a secondary mutiny on him. Maybe a misunderstanding or something.

[Tom Servo]

Rex officially sacked in Buffalo.

[KronoRed]

Thinking the NFL is encouraging teams to dump coaches early to get away from the whole 'black monday' thing.

[Slyder]

Thinking the NFL is encouraging teams to dump coaches early to get away from the whole 'black monday' thing.

Probably Bills wanting to get out in front of the coaching search before the rest of the 3 or 4 do it?

[KoryMac5]

It was playoffs or bust for Ryan this season...since they were eliminated last week might as well get the inevitable out of the way. It also gives them a chance to check out Anthony Lynn who they supposedly really like. If the Jags balk at Coughlin I would not be shocked to see tom land in Buffalo on a 3 yr deal with Lynn being groomed as the eventual successor.

[bucksfan2]

It was playoffs or bust for Ryan this season...since they were eliminated last week might as well get the inevitable out of the way. It also gives them a chance to check out Anthony Lynn who they supposedly really like. If the Jags balk at Coughlin I would not be shocked to see tom land in Buffalo on a 3 yr deal with Lynn being groomed as the eventual successor.

Would you? I think Ryan is a blowhard, I think he is a guy who thinks he is a better coach than he is, will go out an say anything he wants, but will bring a certain amount of swag to the team. I think the Bills job was a horrible decision for Ryan, he needed to get out of the east and playing the Pats twice. But I think with all his bravado, he can instill that in his team. He can get a team to start playing with his oversized ego, he can get a QB like Mark Sanchez to the AFC Title game.

I don't think Ryan in any form is a long term solution, but I can see him creating a bunch of buzz with a talented Bengals team.

[Tom Servo]

I got to observe Rex up close and my best friend is a huge Jets fan. At first I think there was something to be said for his abilities as a head coach but as time has worn on I think he has shown to be a thoroughly average coach who is just full of bluster. He would certainly be DIFFERENT than the lowkey Marvin Lewis, but I don't think he would be any better.

[Boston Red]

Johnny Manziel is apparently still a moron. Though this probably doesn't belong I the NFL thread anymore.

[ScotlandRed]

Not sure how much interest there will be in the play-offs as no Bengals. Watching Raiders v Texans and Oakland look totally lost without Carr. There have also been some very debatable PI calls.

[Slyder]

Not sure how much interest there will be in the play-offs as no Bengals. Watching Raiders v Texans and Oakland look totally lost without Carr. There have also been some very debatable PI calls.

If you could find whatever Murse that Mularky's Balls locked in during the first few drives then he'd be fine. It was annoying to watch 3 and out for a quarter then the offense would come alive once we were behind. They threw Cook under the bus waiting for when Houston didn't have to respect the run and Merciless and Clowney could pin their ears back to try and go down the field.

Oakland needs to change BOTH coridinators.

[ScotlandRed]

Steelers do literally get away with anything. Quite clearly personal foul after the fake punt there as the whistle had blown but no action taken.

[ScotlandRed]

Absolutely horrible hit from Dupree on Moore. But of course there's a penalty on Miami to basically offset that.

[Tom Servo]

That was the most vicious hit I can remember seeing in years.

[KoryMac5]

Refs losing control of this game quick...

[WrongVerb]

Steelers hunting the other teams' best players again.

[ScotlandRed]

If that's Burfict that makes that hit there's National outrage. The announcers are making excuses for Dupree.

[RiverRat13]

Just good clean hard hittin' Pittsburgh Steeler football.

[CTA513]

If that's Burfict that makes that hit there's National outrage. The announcers are making excuses for Dupree.

Then before the half Mitchell launched himself at the Dolphins WR only for the WR to duck and Mitchell ended up hitting his own teammate in the head and causing his teammate to have to leave.

[RiverRat13]

Then before the half Mitchell launched himself at the Dolphins WR only for the WR to duck and Mitchell ended up hitting his own teammate in the head and causing his teammate to have to leave.

But Marvin Lewis better keep Mitchell's name out his mouth when talking about dirty players...

[ScotlandRed]

Another horrible hit from no 17 of the Steelers. Do the announcers even see this? They are barely mentioning it.

[ScotlandRed]

The Dolphins really don't deserve to be a playoff team.

[WrongVerb]

Did someone put butter on the Dolphins quarterback's hands? They certainly aren't helping themselves.

[RiverRat13]

The Dolphins really don't deserve to be a playoff team.

The Dolphins had a pretty easy schedule but give credit to the Steelers for being a good team. They are capable of winning these next two games and getting to the Super Bowl.

[Dom Heffner]

The Dolphins had a pretty easy schedule but give credit to the Steelers for being a good team. They are capable of winning these next two games and getting to the Super Bowl.

Nah. What team are you watching? Lousy road team going into two places that are amongst the toughest to play in the NFL.

[Dom Heffner]

Where is SteelSD to defend the dirty hits? Or anyone for that matter.

There is no defending them after today but it will continue forever apparently.

Dick Clark finally died, so there is hope....maybe.

[redsfanmia]

Where is SteelSD to defend the dirty hits? Or anyone for that matter.

There is no defending them after today but it will continue forever apparently.

Dick Clark finally died, so there is hope....maybe.
They aren't dirty hits, it's Steeler football. When other team retaliates they are dirty hits.

[WVRed]

I hate to say this, but it may take a massive brawl for anything to ever be done about the Steelers. Punches thrown, all out fight.

And even then, I don't think it will help.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[traderumor]

Absolutely horrible hit from Dupree on Moore. But of course there's a penalty on Miami to basically offset that.

Yup, which was for a small shove of the same player who laid the vicious hit, drew at least three flags. The Steelers were penalized, but the Dolphins go from first and 10 in the red zone to 1st and 25 from the 30 something yard line. So, their guy gets a vicious hit, knocked out of the game, and his team ends up with 1st and 25. The drive died, mission accomplished. How about the ref consorting with the Steelers on the sideline by the heater? They were all looking quite chummy.

[ScotlandRed]

Yup, which was for a small shove of the same player who laid the vicious hit, drew at least three flags. The Steelers were penalized, but the Dolphins go from first and 10 in the red zone to 1st and 25 from the 30 something yard line. So, their guy gets a vicious hit, knocked out of the game, and his team ends up with 1st and 25. The drive died, mission accomplished. How about the ref consorting with the Steelers on the sideline by the heater? They were all looking quite chummy.

They couldn't get the flags on Ajayi out their belts quick enough.

[Stray]

Had to wait till the last one, but we finally have a good game on Wildcard Weekend.

[SteelSD]

Where is SteelSD to defend the dirty hits? Or anyone for that matter.

There is no defending them after today but it will continue forever apparently.

Dick Clark finally died, so there is hope....maybe.

Who's defending anything? I was actually thinking that Dupree might be ejected. Not good. I'm expecting a fine and if he repeats the behavior, a suspension. But it's not like he's Vontaze Burfict. Dupree is as second-year LB with little history of being on the field, much less any pattern of the dirty play you Bengals fans root for week-in/week-out. Heck, the Steelers clobbered the Dolphins without their starting tight end; who's been in the concussion protocol for weeks after receiving a dirty hit by a player from which team? Yep, the Bengals. Again. It's like some you guys don't even really watch football for the football in the games and most certainly don't care one crap about the officiating when it's the Bengals doing the headhunting. I can't even really get grumpy about because it's just so pity-worthy at this point.

Your glass house needs some serious masking tape to help repair the cracks and a big time power wash. Enjoy your playoffs.

[757690]

If Eli cares about his team, he will retire tomorrow.

[WVRed]

Browns hire Gregg Williams as defensive coordinator, and Roethlisberger already has a bounty.


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[Stray]

Meh ended up being another blowout. What an ugly weekend for the NFL. Those were bad games.

[CTA513]

Joey Porter arrested after reported altercation with police

Chris Mueller of the Beaver County Times reports that Porter was handcuffed and placed in the back seat of a police car outside of a bar in the Southside area of Pittsburgh on Sunday evening.
Mueller reports that Porter was handcuffed following an altercation with a police officer.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/01/08/joey-porter-arrested-after-reported-altercation-with-police/



:alcohol:

[Stray]

Oy, Steelers' assistant Joey Porter has been arrested after an altercation with a police officer.

From such a well behaved, seemingly level headed guy, I'm completely shocked.

http://www.si.com/nfl/2017/01/08/steelers-coach-joey-porter-arrested-altercation-police-officer?xid=socialflow_twitter_si

[Mutaman]

If Eli cares about his team, he will retire tomorrow.

Stupid Eli- he couldn't win a third post season game in freezing temperatures at Lambeau against a HOF QB.

Career playoff wins in Lambeau:
Aaron Rodgers-3
Eli Manning- 2

[Stray]

Yea because of his personality, and more importantly his brother, Eli's career will forever be underrated. Clutch in the postseason w/multiple SBs and as tough as anyone, including Favre.

He's a gamer who still has a lotta game left imo.

[RiverRat13]

Yea because of his personality, and more importantly his brother, Eli's career will forever be underrated. Clutch in the postseason w/multiple SBs and as tough as anyone, including Favre.

He's a gamer who still has a lotta game left imo.

I would go the other way. Because he plays in New York and his last name is Manning, he will be forever overrated. His career passer rating is 83.1. For comparison's sake, Andy Dalton's is 89.1. The advanced metrics aren't too fond of Eli, either. Football Outsiders has him as the 20th best QB in '16, 18th in '15, 11th in '14, and 42nd in '13. His best ranking in DYAR is 8th, which he did twice.

He certainly gets credit for playing really well in the two Super Bowl runs, especially how well he played in 2011. But overall, he's basically Joe Flacco (compare their numbers) except Eli's defense got him one more ring than Flacco.

[Stray]

I would go the other way. Because he plays in New York and his last name is Manning, he will be forever overrated. His career passer rating is 83.1. For comparison's sake, Andy Dalton's is 89.1. The advanced metrics aren't too fond of Eli, either. Football Outsiders has him as the 20th best QB in '16, 18th in '15, 11th in '14, and 42nd in '13. His best ranking in DYAR is 8th, which he did twice.

He certainly gets credit for playing really well in the two Super Bowl runs, especially how well he played in 2011. But overall, he's basically Joe Flacco (compare their numbers) except Eli's defense got him one more ring than Flacco.

This is all good and I do agree, but yanno he did the 18-1 Patriots in with THAT throw. And he backed it up with another SB. It really does show how much QB careers are defined by team postseason success.

If given the choice, there's no way I'd take Eli over Dalton. And if given another choice I'm not even 100% sure I'd take Dalton over our backup McCarron. But I'm like 75% sure heh.

[Mutaman]

No way Joe Flacco or Peyton Manning could have come into Green Bay in 2007 and 2011 under those kinds of conditions and beaten those Packer teams. Eli's DYAR notwithstanding. :rolleyes:

[CTA513]

Oy, Steelers' assistant Joey Porter has been arrested after an altercation with a police officer.

From such a well behaved, seemingly level headed guy, I'm completely shocked.

http://www.si.com/nfl/2017/01/08/steelers-coach-joey-porter-arrested-altercation-police-officer?xid=socialflow_twitter_si




Porter was taken to the Allegheny County Jail. His charges include aggravated assault, simple assault, resisting arrest, public drunkenness and terroristic threats.

http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2017/01/08/report-steelers-asst-coach-detained-after-altercation-with-officer/#.WHMYRMUD7gs.twitter


Not really surprising considering his past both on and off the field.

[757690]

Stupid Eli- he couldn't win a third post season game in freezing temperatures at Lambeau against a HOF QB.

Career playoff wins in Lambeau:
Aaron Rodgers-3
Eli Manning- 2

Not saying he was the reason why they lost to GB, but he's 35 and showing signs of a deep decline. He was ranked 22 among starting QB's this year in terms of QB rating. He will likely be worse next year. I don't see the Giants making the playoffs next year with Eli at starting QB.

[Mutaman]

Not saying he was the reason why they lost to GB, but he's 35 and showing signs of a deep decline. He was ranked 22 among starting QB's this year in terms of QB rating. He will likely be worse next year. I don't see the Giants making the playoffs next year with Eli at starting QB.

With all due respect, when you post "If Eli cares about his team, he will retire tomorrow", right after a tough loss, sounds like you're saying he's the reason they lost. Personally I think the reason they lost was that fellow wearing #12 for the other team.

[traderumor]

Who's defending anything? I was actually thinking that Dupree might be ejected. Not good. I'm expecting a fine and if he repeats the behavior, a suspension. But it's not like he's Vontaze Burfict. Dupree is as second-year LB with little history of being on the field, much less any pattern of the dirty play you Bengals fans root for week-in/week-out. Heck, the Steelers clobbered the Dolphins without their starting tight end; who's been in the concussion protocol for weeks after receiving a dirty hit by a player from which team? Yep, the Bengals. Again. It's like some you guys don't even really watch football for the football in the games and most certainly don't care one crap about the officiating when it's the Bengals doing the headhunting. I can't even really get grumpy about because it's just so pity-worthy at this point.

Your glass house needs some serious masking tape to help repair the cracks and a big time power wash. Enjoy your playoffs.
You told us.

[WrongVerb]

Old friend Vance Joseph about to be hired by the Broncos:



Josina Anderson
@JosinaAnderson

Vance Joseph and the #Denver Broncos are closing in on a deal to make Joseph their next head coach, per source. Still working on numbers.
10:30am · 11 Jan 2017

[RiverRat13]

Old friend Vance Joseph about to be hired by the Broncos:

Interesting. I had him pegged as Marvin's successor. So now I'm guessing it will be Guenther.

[Bob Sheed]

Interesting. I had him pegged as Marvin's successor. So now I'm guessing it will be Guenther.

shudder

[Chip R]

The Chargers are moving back to L.A. Now L.A. can double up on their crappy teams.

[goreds2]

Matt Moore has no bad feelings towards Bud Dupree

Moore, who started Miami's first playoff game in 14 years, said that he no bad feelings towards Pittsburgh's linebacker following the Dolphins' 30-12 loss to the Steelers in the AFC wild card round, a loss that ended a season many in Miami would consider a success.
“I've been hit pretty good a couple times (in my career),” Moore said, per the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review. “That was a good one. Part of the game.
“I got hit in the head. I don't know if it was clean or not. I was more focused on Jarvis (Landry). If he got flagged, I guess it wasn't (clean). I don't have bad feelings toward him. Sometimes stuff like that happens.”

[BuckeyeRed27]

The Chargers are moving back to L.A. Now L.A. can double up on their crappy teams.

I honestly don't see this going very well. No one here cares about the Chargers and after the Rams took a giant dump on this season, no one is excited about them either. Maybe when the stadium opens it will pick up, but right now this is in no way a two team NFL city.

[WVRed]

I honestly don't see this going very well. No one here cares about the Chargers and after the Rams took a giant dump on this season, no one is excited about them either. Maybe when the stadium opens it will pick up, but right now this is in no way a two team NFL city.

Looks like Los Angeles is still looking for a professional football team.

[Sea Ray]

I honestly don't see this going very well. No one here cares about the Chargers and after the Rams took a giant dump on this season, no one is excited about them either. Maybe when the stadium opens it will pick up, but right now this is in no way a two team NFL city.

I agree. I think the Chargers have erred in making this move.

[Slyder]

The Chargers are moving back to L.A. Now L.A. can double up on their crappy teams.

Have you seen the new logo? Its like they take the one thing kind of unique about the franchise and bastardize it out to everything under the sun.

Its like the LA Dodgers Logo and the Golden State Logo got together and had an offspring. A very Generic LA with a little squiggle at the end of it.

- - - Updated - - -

The NFL should have held out on that Carson plan with the Chargers and Raiders IMO.

[WVRed]

Something to note is the Chargers are going to be playing in a 30,000 seat soccer stadium until the new one is built


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[Tom Servo]

I like the Sean McVay hire by the Rams. I'm usually wary of wunderkinds, but he seems like the real deal.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Something to note is the Chargers are going to be playing in a 30,000 seat soccer stadium until the new one is built


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I'll be curious to see how that goes too. I love the StubHub Center and go to about 10 Galaxy games a year and its great for soccer. It could be a cool setting for football too, just obviously with about half the fans or less that most NFL stadiums hold. It's not a in a bad location, right by 2 freeways and has pretty good tailgating set up and for Galaxy games. I just imagine they are going to lose a lot of money for 2 seasons only getting half the ticket revenue they normally get.

[KronoRed]

So the one team that talked about going to LA that people in LA might have given a crap about will be in Vegas, meanwhile two teams that nobody cares about will share a stadium.

Time for contraction.

[WVRed]

I'll be curious to see how that goes too. I love the StubHub Center and go to about 10 Galaxy games a year and its great for soccer. It could be a cool setting for football too, just obviously with about half the fans or less that most NFL stadiums hold. It's not a in a bad location, right by 2 freeways and has pretty good tailgating set up and for Galaxy games. I just imagine they are going to lose a lot of money for 2 seasons only getting half the ticket revenue they normally get.

It's not like the Coliseum is working well for the Rams. Better than dragging it out though and creating a Houston Oilers or Cleveland Browns situation in San Diego.

[Chip R]

Have you seen the new logo? Its like they take the one thing kind of unique about the franchise and bastardize it out to everything under the sun.

Its like the LA Dodgers Logo and the Golden State Logo got together and had an offspring. A very Generic LA with a little squiggle at the end of it.

- - - Updated - - -

The NFL should have held out on that Carson plan with the Chargers and Raiders IMO.

Just saw it. That's a good description of that logo. Reminded me of a minor league logo.

[Kingspoint]

I honestly don't see this going very well. No one here cares about the Chargers and after the Rams took a giant dump on this season, no one is excited about them either. Maybe when the stadium opens it will pick up, but right now this is in no way a two team NFL city.

For two years they only have to be a 1-1/2 team City with the Chargers playing in a 27,000 seat stadium.

[Puffy]

So the one team that talked about going to LA that people in LA might have given a crap about will be in Vegas, meanwhile two teams that nobody cares about will share a stadium.

Time for contraction.

Come on Krono - it's LA. Once those teams put a good product on the field then they'll become gods. When the Raiders moved to LA they were already good and that is what made them popular. Well, that and the colors. Hollywood is frontrunners. Become a frontrunner and LA will love you

[Tom Servo]

Yeah I think the "LA doesn't care about football" takes are pretty old. They care, they just don't bother with losers, which makes them just like at least half the fanbases in the NFL.

[Boston Red]

Something to note is the Chargers are going to be playing in a 30,000 seat soccer stadium until the new one is built


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What do they plan to do with all the extra seats in that soccer stadium?

[WVRed]

Come on Krono - it's LA. Once those teams put a good product on the field then they'll become gods. When the Raiders moved to LA they were already good and that is what made them popular. Well, that and the colors. Hollywood is frontrunners. Become a frontrunner and LA will love you

If you look up fair-weather fan in the dictionary, there's a picture of Los Angeles.