2016 NFL Season

[Slyder]

Earl Campell was Pete Johnson with speed. It is sad to see what Earl looks like today. From Wiki:



That sounds horrible. Was it all worth it? I don't know

Bo Jackson?

[Dom Heffner]

You may want to take another look at what the post was responding to. Sea Ray was attempting to use Elway's "comebacks" as a way to separate Elway from Roethisberger; apparently as a trump card as he doesn't seem to believe that things like every day performance matters (y'know those newfangled "sabermetric" concepts like yards, touchdowns, etc.).

All I showed was that Roethisberger is not lacking in a history of comebacks and game-winning drives. While I think that needs to be added to any discussion, it's certainly not the primary reason a QB is good or not.

So far in this discussion, dubc has stated that having a great running back hurts a QB's numbers, Sea Ray emphatically disagrees with that. Sea Ray states that comebacks are really important, but you dispute that.

You might not realize it, but you're really only arguing with each other. Now you're at odds with Sea Ray (not me) about whether or Ken Anderson was a good or bad QB due to meager "comeback" totals. I think he was and should at least belong in the Hall of Very Good.

Again, I think you all need to get together and get your stories straight before continuing.

Anderson is a top 10-12 QB by many metrics.

Im not trying to further Sea Ray's argument. I dont care why you posted Ben's comeback stats.

It's not a measure of anything other that who can run a 2 minute offense very well.

[SteelSD]

Anderson is a top 10-12 QB by many metrics.

He's a Bengals top 10 QB, if that's what you mean and he's probably in the top 10 of guys named "Anderson". He's a QB who played like he was born and bred for the Hall of Very Good.

Ken Anderson- Career NFL Rank

Passing Yards- 35th
Completions- 38th
Passing TD- 42nd
Completion %- 51st
QB Rating- 49th
4th Quarter Comebacks- 105th
Game-Winning Drives- 88th
Super Bowl Appearances: 1
Super Bowl Victories: 0

Feel free to post the "many metrics" you're talking about. Anderson was an historically significant player for the Bengals, but falls just short of the HOF. Not enough performance. Not enough hardware.


Im not trying to further Sea Ray's argument. I dont care why you posted Ben's comeback stats.

You can't further Sea Ray's argument even if you wanted to because you disagree with him. I'm just stating that it's pretty funny to see folks crawl out of the woodwork with completely contrary, yet supposedly meaningful, arguments in support of the same points. You guys can't even get your collective poop in a group enough to not disagree with each other, but you think you're making progress with me? Yeah, no.


It's not a measure of anything other that who can run a 2 minute offense very well.

I'm not sure you know what it may or may not be a measure of; only that your guy isn't as high on the list as you want him to be to validate whatever point it is you're trying to make. Bias-first stuff often ends up like that, Dom. Sorry.

[Kingspoint]

Ken Anderson- Career NFL Rank

Passing Yards- 35th
Completions- 38th
Passing TD- 42nd
Completion %- 51st
QB Rating- 49th
4th Quarter Comebacks- 105th
Game-Winning Drives- 88th
Super Bowl Appearances: 1
Super Bowl Victories: 0


Attempted Rapes: 0

[RedsBaron]

As I posted before, simply looking at a quarterback's career rank in passing statistics is quite misleading, at least in comparing quarterbacks from different eras. NFL rules have significantly changed over the decades, and especially in the last 30 years or so the rules have been consistently revised to opening up the passing game.
As far as Ken Anderson goes, I regard him as a borderline hall of fame candidate, probably as well qualified as Dan Fouts, his contemporary.
Steel is correct that Anderson ranks 49th all time in career passer rating, but he does rank higher than the following quarterbacks who are in the Hall of Fame: Troy Aikman [54th], Warren Moon [60], Bart Starr [61], Fran Tarkenton [63], Fouts [68], John Elway [69], Johnny Unitas [81], Bob Griese [93], Ken Stabler [104], Norm Van Blocklin [107], Sid Luckman [109], Y.A. Tittle [116], Sammy Baugh [134], Terry Bradshaw [142], Joe Namath [167], Bobby Layne [170] and Bob Waterfield [176].
I don't believe that Anderson was as great a QB as most of the above HOF quarterbacks who have lower career passer ratings than he has, just as I don't believe a number of the more recent QBs who have higher passer ratings than he are actually better than Anderson was.
Considering only the QBs from his era [1971-86], I would put Anderson behind Roger Staubach, Joe Montana, Stabler, Griese, and Tarkenton for certain. While their careers did overlap Anderson's, Starr and Unitas at the start and Elway and Marino at the end seem to belong to different eras than Anderson-if they are regarded as his contemporaries I would rank them ahead of Anderson. Terry Bradshaw is an interesting comparison; Anderson was the better passer for much of their respective careers, and I expect the 70s Steelers would have won just as many Super Bowls with Anderson as they did with Bradshaw--BUT Bradshaw does have those four Super Bowl rings and he did play very well in those games.

[Revering4Blue]

http://www.si.com/more-sports/2011/06/08/ken-anderson

The HOF case for Ken Anderson

It's long, but a worthwhile read.

[dubc47834]

You may want to take another look at what the post was responding to. Sea Ray was attempting to use Elway's "comebacks" as a way to separate Elway from Roethisberger; apparently as a trump card as he doesn't seem to believe that things like every day performance matters (y'know those newfangled "sabermetric" concepts like yards, touchdowns, etc.).

All I showed was that Roethisberger is not lacking in a history of comebacks and game-winning drives. While I think that needs to be added to any discussion, it's certainly not the primary reason a QB is good or not.

So far in this discussion, dubc has stated that having a great running back hurts a QB's numbers, Sea Ray emphatically disagrees with that. Sea Ray states that comebacks are really important, but you dispute that.

You might not realize it, but you're really only arguing with each other. Now you're at odds with Sea Ray (not me) about whether or Ken Anderson was a good or bad QB due to meager "comeback" totals. I think he was and should at least belong in the Hall of Very Good.

Again, I think you all need to get together and get your stories straight before continuing.

LOL....this guy!!!

[SteelSD]

http://www.si.com/more-sports/2011/06/08/ken-anderson

The HOF case for Ken Anderson

It's long, but a worthwhile read.

That was a good read. I've always felt that Anderson was underappreciated and I think that article demonstrated that he matched up pretty well versus his contemporaries (which is something I think we already knew even in 2011). That being said, I don't see him stacking up well enough against all QB's (numbers, accomplishments, etc.) to be much more than a look. Hall of Very Good.

[SteelSD]

LOL....this guy!!!

So, do you agree with Sea Ray that having a great running game helps a QB's numbers? That's the opposite of your earlier point regarding Terrell Davis' effect on Elway. I also see that you didn't respond to the correlation data. Hmn.

[Dom Heffner]

He's a Bengals top 10 QB, if that's what you mean and he's probably in the top 10 of guys named "Anderson". He's a QB who played like he was born and bred for the Hall of Very Good.

Ken Anderson- Career NFL Rank

Passing Yards- 35th
Completions- 38th
Passing TD- 42nd
Completion %- 51st
QB Rating- 49th
4th Quarter Comebacks- 105th
Game-Winning Drives- 88th
Super Bowl Appearances: 1
Super Bowl Victories: 0

Feel free to post the "many metrics" you're talking about. Anderson was an historically significant player for the Bengals, but falls just short of the HOF. Not enough performance. Not enough hardware.



You can't further Sea Ray's argument even if you wanted to because you disagree with him. I'm just stating that it's pretty funny to see folks crawl out of the woodwork with completely contrary, yet supposedly meaningful, arguments in support of the same points. You guys can't even get your collective poop in a group enough to not disagree with each other, but you think you're making progress with me? Yeah, no.



I'm not sure you know what it may or may not be a measure of; only that your guy isn't as high on the list as you want him to be to validate whatever point it is you're trying to make. Bias-first stuff often ends up like that, Dom. Sorry.

Steel- it's just not a measurement of anything.

I dont know what else to tell you.

Other than there is an NFL referee who cant sleep at night and will take to the grave with him calls that changed the outcome of a Super Bowl.

Your Ben Roethlisberger fathead won't lose its adhesiveness, all is okay.

Save your essays for the Steeler's board.

Ben was not a top 10 QB in the NFL most years he played- so he's definitely not a top 10 QB of all time. And if he played better during the game, he wouldn't need to "come back."

[Dom Heffner]

This is your coach, man. I want you to stop and think about this for a bit. Just think about this and what an embarrassment this is to your city, your fans.

Look at this:

11901

[SteelSD]

11903

[Revering4Blue]

Interesting.

I was aware of several reported offers for Elway during the '83 draft, and also aware that Elway had eventually agreed to play for the Colts -- only to have Bob Irsay (One of the worst NFL owners of all-time), still bitter over Elway's initial snubbing of the Colts, go over the GM's head to engineer the deal of Elway to Denver. But I wasn't aware of this.


According to two people with knowledge of a potential pre-draft trade, the Colts had reached a deal to send the No. 1 pick of the 1983 draft to the Raiders -- only to have the deal blocked by NFL commissioner Pete Rozelle.

"We almost had Elway, but Pete Rozelle voided the trade," former Raiders personnel man Ron Wolf told The Star-Ledger last week. "We had the trade set up with Baltimore, but Pete wouldn't let it happen."

Rozelle and Raiders owner Davis spent many years in the 1980s in courtrooms over the Raiders' move from Oakland to Los Angeles, among other issues. Simply put, the two didn't like each other.

Ernie Accorsi, then the GM of the Colts, now the Giants' GM, confirmed a deal was in place with the Raiders that would have netted Baltimore an unprecedented three No. 1 picks and two No. 2s. One of the No. 1s, Accorsi said, would have been the sixth overall, which the Raiders had arranged to acquire from the Bears.

"Yeah, it's never been written, but I was going to make the deal only if it included getting back a top 10 pick," Accorsi said. "I wanted to make sure we still got (Hall of Fame quarterback) Dan Marino. I wasn't going to trade Elway for anything less than the best package ever."

Wolf said he didn't know the details of the almost-trade, but said he was was told by someone in the Colts' organization that "it was much better" than what Baltimore later received from the Broncos for Elway after the draft. That deal included back-up QB Mark Hermann, tackle Chris Hinton and a first-round draft pick.

http://www.milehighreport.com/2013/4/11/4207660/what-if-john-elway-to-the-raiders

[Dom Heffner]

^^^^^Wow. What an interesting story, Rev.

Vida Blue comes to mind with the Reds.

[RedsBaron]

http://www.si.com/more-sports/2011/06/08/ken-anderson

The HOF case for Ken Anderson

It's long, but a worthwhile read.
Excellent article.
In my prior post I said I thought Anderson should outrank Fouts, and that article reinforced that opinion. I also liked the term "deadball era" to apply to the NFL of 1970-77. Anyone who simply compares passing stats to that era to today's era as if the game hasn't changed lacks understanding.
However the article also caused me to revise my own opinion of Anderson. I no longer regard him to be a borderline HOF candidate. He clearly should be in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Case closed.

[RedsBaron]

Interesting.

I was aware of several reported offers for Elway during the '83 draft, and also aware that Elway had eventually agreed to play for the Colts -- only to have Bob Irsay (One of the worst NFL owners of all-time), still bitter over Elway's initial snubbing of the Colts, go over the GM's head to engineer the deal of Elway to Denver. But I wasn't aware of this.



http://www.milehighreport.com/2013/4/11/4207660/what-if-john-elway-to-the-raiders
Interesting. The questionable integrity of the office of the NFL Commissioner has long roots.

[Redsfaithful]

Attempted Rapes: 0

The one stat Steel won't talk about!

[Dom Heffner]

The one stat Steel won't talk about!

Had security block the door while he did it....just ick.

[Redsfaithful]

Had security block the door while he did it....just ick.

I've seen kids in Columbus in Roethlisberger jerseys - how do you just wave that off and move forward with indoctrinating your kid to love the guy?

[Plus Plus]

I'm closing this thread for two reasons:

1) It has reached 1000 posts
2) The last several pages of posts have consisted of repeated baiting and flaming from multiple different directions.

Please start a new thread and refrain from personal attacks and baiting of users.