Ohio State Football 2016

[gonelong]

2016 OSU Recruiting class wrap-up (http://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-football-recruiting/2016/01/67104/meet-the-2016-ohio-state-buckeyes-football-recruiting-class)

Another Top10 (To 5?) recruiting class (http://ohiostate.247sports.com/Season/2016-Football/Commits) from Meyer and crew.

This year ought to be interesting. There a number of highly regarded recruits from the 2014 class that will be making their first real impact, and the 2015 class barely saw the field so their are a number of guys there that can make a significant impact. Also, WR Corey Smith was recently granted another year of Eligibility.

GL


2015 Class
21 of the 25 players singed in the 2015 Class - #7 247 Composite Class (http://ohiostate.247sports.com/Season/2015-Football/Commits) ended up Redshirting.
Played:
CB - Denzel Ward
LB - Jerome Baker
CB - Eric Glover-Williams
OT - Isaiah Prince

Redshirted/Injury:
RB - Mike Weber
WR - Torrance Gibson
WR - KJ Hill
DL- Robert Landers
OL - Kevin Feder
LB - Nick Conner

Redshirt:
DL Joshua Alabi
TE A.J. Alexander
DB Damon Arnette
TE Rashod Berry
OL Branden Bowen
OL Matthew Burrell
QB Joe Burrow
DE Jashon Cornell
DL Davon Hamilton
LB Justin Hilliard
DL Dre'Mont Jones
LS Liam McCullough
DB Joshua Norwood
OL Grant Schmidt
WR Alex Stump

[bucksfan2]

The key will be how quickly they gel. They have one huge advantage over many teams in Barrett being back. They do have a tougher schedule this year going to Oklahoma to play Big Game Bob and the Sooners and getting Wisconsin and MSU away. They lost a ton but still have a ton of talent. Will the OLine come together and will they be able to replace people in the back end.

[15fan]

On the same day that Harbaugh starts 4 days of spring practice in FL, Urban gets a surprise 2017 commitment from Ann Arbor.

Hey look. They left their door unlocked. That sofa looks comfortable. And the kitchen is stocked with good food and drink. So yes, we will help ourselves and get comfortable in your living room while you are away.

I love the gamesmanship.

[gonelong]

OSU's 2017 class is looking stacked. 100K at the Shoe for the spring game. OSU's NFL Draft day was the kind of advertising you can't buy.

And recruits continue to hear stuff like this ...


http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/ohio-states-draft-class-is-the-most-impressive-in-modern-nfl-history/
Incredibly, Ohio State had five players drafted in the top 20 and another five in the top 100. As a result, a total of 151.2 points of draft value was used on Buckeyes players. That’s the most — by a very large margin — in 70 years.


GL

[gonelong]

Brendon White, OSU commit, gets an invite to "The Opening".


That makes seven future Buckeyes invited to Nike's premier recruiting camp (http://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-football-recruiting/2016/05/70669/2017-ohio-state-commit-brendon-white-receives-invitation-to-the-opening-finals-seven-buckeyes-now-headed), which is set to take place July 5-10 at the apparel giant's world headquarters in Beaverton, Oregon. White joins Moretti, linebacker Antjuan Simmons, running back JK Dobbins, defensive tackle Haskell Garrett, and defensive backs Isaiah Pryor and Marcus Williamson.

GL

[BillDoran]

Brendon White, OSU commit, gets an invite to "The Opening".



GL

Really like the look of Brendon White. Was a bit skeptical at first, thinking this was a sentimental legacy offer (should have known better with Meyer at the helm), but he's put on some good size in the past six months and is apparently as athletic as all get out. Sounds like he's being groomed as a big WR or for the Darren Lee walk-out LB role. Can't have too many big athletes on the team.

[gonelong]

Really like the look of Brendon White. Was a bit skeptical at first, thinking this was a sentimental legacy offer (should have known better with Meyer at the helm), but he's put on some good size in the past six months and is apparently as athletic as all get out. Sounds like he's being groomed as a big WR or for the Darren Lee walk-out LB role. Can't have too many big athletes on the team.

My money is on LB, but it will be interesting to see how Noah Brown plays that big WR role this season.

GL

[gonelong]

2018 - Jones (seem to be picking up a small foothold with this kid)
2017 - Martell and Clark
2016 - Haskins
2015 - Burrow and Gibson (WR)

QB is getting crowded in a hurry. It's always good to have 2 (or 3) of these guys though and that would be a serious talent pool to draw from and makes it easy to push them to excel with that many guys competing for not only the top spot, but the backup spot.

GL

[RedTeamGo!]

I am hoping Burrow or Clark eventually transfer to my alma mater, Toledo.

[gonelong]

I am hoping Burrow or Clark eventually transfer to my alma mater, Toledo.

Some of those guys will get taken out of the equation along the way through injuries, eligibility, and/or transfer. They are all headed there thinking they are going to win the job. None of those guys are going to be content being 2nd string, much less being told they are the 4th or 5th guy. Nature of the beast and a necessity in that offense to have a good deal of depth.

GL

[BuckeyeRed27]

Brionte Dunn was kicked off the team yesterday for the old "violation of team rules". Too bad he never got it going as a Buckeye.

Mike Weber the floor is yours I guess.

[bucksfan2]

Brionte Dunn was kicked off the team yesterday for the old "violation of team rules". Too bad he never got it going as a Buckeye.

Mike Weber the floor is yours I guess.

I don't think Dunn was going to do much this season. I thought Weber was going to be the starting RB with Samuel getting quite a few touches as well as Wilson. If Weber goes down I guess its the FR Williams (?) who takes over. When you are a 5th year senior and have never gotten it going at a big time program, there generally is a reason why.

[gonelong]

Not good for depth, but lots of talent at the RB position. It appears Weber and Samuel have it in hand, but an injury there should be a concern.

GL

[BuckeyeRed27]

I don't think Dunn was going to do much this season. I thought Weber was going to be the starting RB with Samuel getting quite a few touches as well as Wilson. If Weber goes down I guess its the FR Williams (?) who takes over. When you are a 5th year senior and have never gotten it going at a big time program, there generally is a reason why.

Maybe. I think he was going to have a nice year. To be fair to him a part of the reason why is Hyde and Zeke. He showed some pretty good flashes in his extremely limited time.

[Chip R]

Brionte Dunn was kicked off the team yesterday for the old "violation of team rules". Too bad he never got it going as a Buckeye.

Mike Weber the floor is yours I guess.

Looks like he assaulted his girlfriend.

http://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/brionte-dunn-reportedly-hit-girlfriend-leading-to-ohio-state-dismissal/

[gonelong]

Two 5 star receivers verbal to OSU's 2017 class today: Tyjon Lindsey and Trevon Grimes

That's not a bad day.

GL

[BuckeyeRed27]

Two 5 star receivers verbal to OSU's 2017 class today: Tyjon Lindsey and Trevon Grimes

That's not a bad day.

GL

Lindsey plays at the same school as QB commit Tate Martell too.

[Sea Ray]

Two 5 star receivers verbal to OSU's 2017 class today: Tyjon Lindsey and Trevon Grimes

That's not a bad day.

GL

Most schools are thrilled with 4* recruits...not Ohio State. An embarrassment of riches...

[gonelong]

tOSU didn't blitz much against BGSU but they didn't really get a ton of pressure on the QB either. I'd like to see the DL step up a bit more this week.

Holy crap Ohio stadium was hot as the sun heated up the concrete; if there hadn't been intermittent clouds and periodic breezes I am not sure I'd have made it to half-time. The two 20 somethings in front of us had wicked fire-red sun-burns on their legs by the end of the game. I had SPF50 on and still managed a little redness on the thighs.

It will be interesting to see how tOSU matches up with Oklahoma in a few weeks. HOU beating OKL takes a little shine off that match-up but it will still be a fun one.

GL

[gonelong]

Not good for depth, but lots of talent at the RB position. It appears Weber and Samuel have it in hand, but an injury there should be a concern.

GL

Weber looked as good as I could have hoped for yesterday. He ran and blocked very well. He seemed to get caught by the foot 4-5 times just as he was breaking for a long gain. Perhaps he lacks the top-end speed to break the long ones? Time will tell. He certainly can move around in tight spaces and lower the shoulder. I'll take that.

They took the reigns off Samuel, kaboom!

I am less worried about depth after watching McCall buzz around.

Was good to see the receiving corp showing real depth. Brown looked pretty good out there.

OL was not real polished, they have some work to do there and I wasn't real impressed by the lack of pressure on the QB from the DL. They did rotate a goodly number of guys in and out there so they have a bit of time to sort that out.

GL

[RedTeamGo!]

Weber looked as good as I could have hoped for yesterday. He ran and blocked very well. He seemed to get caught by the foot 4-5 times just as he was breaking for a long gain. Perhaps he lacks the top-end speed to break the long ones? Time will tell. He certainly can move around in tight spaces and lower the shoulder. I'll take that.

They took the reigns off Samuel, kaboom!

I am less worried about depth after watching McCall buzz around.

Was good to see the receiving corp showing real depth. Brown looked pretty good out there.

OL was not real polished, they have some work to do there and I wasn't real impressed by the lack of pressure on the QB from the DL. They did rotate a goodly number of guys in and out there so they have a bit of time to sort that out.

GL

I think Nick Bosa needs to play and play often. He looks exactly like Joey, but maybe a little bigger.

[bucksfan2]

I think Nick Bosa needs to play and play often. He looks exactly like Joey, but maybe a little bigger.

In due time. Bosa is best served running in a rotation until later on in the season. He missed most of last year due to a knee injury, and while a freak, is still and raw freak. IIRC, Joey really didn't develop in his freshman year until late in the season.

It will be fun to see where this team goes as the season develops. They have so much talented youth, that will struggle at times, but when they begin to gel look out.

[BuckeyeRed27]

I think Nick Bosa needs to play and play often. He looks exactly like Joey, but maybe a little bigger.

They are going to bring him along slowly because of that knee injury, but I bet he is playing a lot more in October than he will for the next few games.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Really good read about Urban and his mental health battles:

http://thelab.bleacherreport.com/i-m-not-the-lone-wolf/

[Newport Red]

http://www.campusrush.com/jt-barrett-ohio-state-buckeyes-football-2005737144.html

[Reds Fanatic]

Ohio State Oklahoma start time has been pushed back to 9 because of thunderstorms

[Kilgore_Trout]

Noah Brown :eek:

[gonelong]

I was pretty confident headed into the game but I didn't see that coming. A good number of RS Freshman providing huge contributions and a few true freshman playing supporting roles as well.

This team is further along than I expected them to be and a good deal of that is pure talent level; speed and athleticism.

How well can this team gel? I like how the schedule plays out. A few weeks until WISC, then a few weeks until NEB. A breather against Maryland and then Mich St, Mich, and hopefully the Big10 championship.

GL

[bucksfan2]

I was a huge Tressel fan and really sad to see him go. I think what often gets lost is the amount of talent he actually had on his teams. The 2005 team may have been the most talented OSU team I have ever seen until these past few years. I think Tressel towards the end of his tenure lost the drive to recruit with the best teams in the country.

Urban has come in and completely upped the ante. He is recruiting as the best talent all over the place. He is bringing in backups who are more talented than starters on most other teams. He has turned OSU into the Alabama of the north, not to mention he continues to be an aggressive offensive minded coach. There are times where he is content winning the games, but more often than not he wants to bury the other team, not win by 7.

One thing I have noticed over the past few seasons is the readiness of players once they get their chance to shine. You don't see a ton of true freshman getting important reps or making much of a difference, but it is the R-FR or Soph who are ready to play and ready to play at a high level. There was some uncertainty about who would step in after they lost so many players to the draft. But one could make an argument that the secondary could be better this season than last. Right now they are fun to watch, the won't do anything special, but will out scheme, talent, and physical you.

One think I think that will improve with time is the passing game. It has looked spotty at times and no go to WR really has stepped up. Brown looked tremendous in catching TD's but I still am worried about the overall passing game.

[Hillsdale87]

One think I think that will improve with time is the passing game. It has looked spotty at times and no go to WR really has stepped up. Brown looked tremendous in catching TD's but I still am worried about the overall passing game.

I have the same worry. It's hard to tell exactly what's going on because you can't really see downfield when watching on TV, but Barrett looks slow and indecisive in his reads. The passing game looks similar to how it looked last season, but the running game and the play calling is much improved.

[bucksfan2]

I have the same worry. It's hard to tell exactly what's going on because you can't really see downfield when watching on TV, but Barrett looks slow and indecisive in his reads. The passing game looks similar to how it looked last season, but the running game and the play calling is much improved.

It just seems like the passing game has been a work in progress since the 2014 season. Watching the run to the title it was almost as if the coaches threw caution into the wind and let Cardale go out and cut it loose. If you read Urban's book after that title, they went into the Wisconsin game making Cardale throw everything outside of the numbers, and looked to have expanded as he got more game action. But ever since those three games, the offense has morphed into a short passing, zone read, run first option. The throws down the field are few and far between. They still don't have that guy to replace Devon Smith, although I think Noah Brown may be that guy.

Look, there is something to be said for just lining up and beating the opponent. They did that against OU, the lined up, knew they couldn't stop them, and forced the ball down their throats. The passes to Brown were great, they opened it up a little, but as a fan, and as someone who thinks right now they are as talented as anyone else in college football, it would be nice to see the passing game develop. With the running game they look tough to stop, Weber is a bowling ball who averaged over 6 yards against OU, and Barrett is a guy who is difficult to stop for a loss, any coach is going to feed that running game until the opponent can stop them. But what worries me going forward is another very conservative game plan against a quality opponent that could lead to a loss. I hope they open the offense up moving forward, and not get ultra conservative at times.

I love this defense, guys flying all over the place, a DLine getting pressure on almost every snap leaving the LB's to run free, CB's making plays! Big props to Fickle who has turned into a top notch d-coordinator. Oh and that Schiano guy ain't bad either.

[gonelong]

Clark QB de-commits from 2017 class. That one is a tough on to swallow. The kid is a Buckeye through and through and I hate to see him come to this realization though it is likely his best course of action. From all accounts a rock-solid kid and the kind of guy that you can feel really good about rooting for; even if he is not wearing your favorite uniform. Good luck Danny.

GL

[RedTeamGo!]

Clark QB de-commits from 2017 class. That one is a tough on to swallow. The kid is a Buckeye through and through and I hate to see him come to this realization though it is likely his best course of action. From all accounts a rock-solid kid and the kind of guy that you can feel really good about rooting for; even if he is not wearing your favorite uniform. Good luck Danny.

GL

When Tate Martell signed and with Emory Jones (2018) likey next, he realized he was going to be 4th or 5th on the depth chart throughout his time at OSU. Good luck to the kid. This isn't Tressell's OSU any longer...if you don't have the goods, you won't play.

[Assembly Hall]

When Tate Martell signed and with Emory Jones (2018) likey next, he realized he was going to be 4th or 5th on the depth chart throughout his time at OSU. Good luck to the kid. This isn't Tressell's OSU any longer...if you don't have the goods, you won't play.

You answered the question I was going to ask. I knew they had somebody coming in next year that is supposed to be ranked #1.................Didn't Martell originally commit to A&M?

[RedTeamGo!]

I believe so.

[Assembly Hall]

I believe so.

I did a little research. He actually committed to Washington first, then A&M.

[gonelong]

http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/news/2016/10/06/air-force-working-with-buckeyes-football-to-study.html?ana=twt

The Air Force Research Laboratory at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base near Dayton has inked a deal with the Buckeyes to perform hands-on research it hopes can be applied to special operations personnel.

This is just flippin' cool.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Certainly a little concerned about the passing game. Everyone has bad days and if one or two balls hit their mark the numbers would have looks good, but everything from play calling through execution looked off. Now we ran for a ton of yards, so maybe they decided to just go with it since it was working, but the air game is going to need to be better in Madison.

[BillDoran]

Certainly a little concerned about the passing game. Everyone has bad days and if one or two balls hit their mark the numbers would have looks good, but everything from play calling through execution looked off. Now we ran for a ton of yards, so maybe they decided to just go with it since it was working, but the air game is going to need to be better in Madison.

J.T. definitely has his good and bad days, but all together he's not an especially accomplished passer. He's always been poor in throwing the deep ball and that's never been more apparent than yesterday. He had guys open, but he wasn't even giving them a chance to get the ball.

I think the knee-jerk reaction is to assume Barrett's poor passing will equate to losses, but I don't think it'll be that big of a deal. Certainly, you want to see him lacing passes around the field like Dan Marino, but I think this Buckeye team has plenty of talent to overcome this deficiency. There are enough weapons on offense (and not too many) that they can spread the ball around and keep the defense off balance. J.T. just needs to be adequate and connect on the occasional deep ball to keep defenses honest. I think Noah Brown can be a guy that will get you tough possession yards as well. Weber's a very good RB and Samuel is of course a weapon. Wilson and Campbell present enough athleticism to be a problem for defenses. And for whatever Barrett lacks in skill, he makes up for at the collegiate level in guile, consistently makes great option reads, always seems to squeeze out an extra few yards and has a heck of a nose for the end zone.

I also think that Indiana is an top-half B1G team. Kevin Wilson seems to have the foundation of a real program in Bloomington.

[traderumor]

Wilson has raised the talent level, but his game skills.....ugh. He does "what?????" calls every game I see them play.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

[traderumor]

Certainly a little concerned about the passing game. Everyone has bad days and if one or two balls hit their mark the numbers would have looks good, but everything from play calling through execution looked off. Now we ran for a ton of yards, so maybe they decided to just go with it since it was working, but the air game is going to need to be better in Madison.
Not worried. Good decision making, wind was a factor. My theory is the run heavy game plan never let him get in rhythm for the passing game to click. And IU seemed to be playing excellent in coverage.

[GAC]

Certainly a little concerned about the passing game. Everyone has bad days and if one or two balls hit their mark the numbers would have looks good, but everything from play calling through execution looked off. Now we ran for a ton of yards, so maybe they decided to just go with it since it was working, but the air game is going to need to be better in Madison.

You take what they give you. I think Indiana's corners did a heck of a job Saturday on our guys. The score could have been worse then it was though if Barrett had made solid down-field throws to a few guys.

I took Indiana and the 31 points though. I just didn't see the Bucks making that margin. The Hoosiers ain't Rutgers (LOL).

[bucksfan2]

Not worried. Good decision making, wind was a factor. My theory is the run heavy game plan never let him get in rhythm for the passing game to click. And IU seemed to be playing excellent in coverage.

Remember when it was windy and poor weather against MSU last season? I don't understand why the offense goes into a shell from time to time and refuses to do anything through the air. Now granted I only was able to watch the last quarter, but Barrett and his pass catchers were off Sat. What I do find concerning is the propensity to shut the air game down and just run after run after run. First of all I don't want Barrett taking all those hits against IU (a game, but less talented IU team.) Secondly you will see poor weather games down the stretch of the season, they will need to find a way to complete passes, to take the top off the defense.

I am not worried that much about the offense and Wisconsin, I think they will find their footing. But what I am worried about is the team going conservative and losing a game they have no business losing. The schedule gets real from here on out, @Wisc, @PSU, Nebraska, @ MSU, TSUN. No need for another poorly called game.

[traderumor]

The pass game has been fine. It was an off day. I think you are overstating the issue.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

[bucksfan2]

The pass game has been fine. It was an off day. I think you are overstating the issue.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

Could be, but the game calling can be concerning at times. To be honest, there probably is one team in the country talent wise that can go toe to toe with OSU right now. They don't need play calling to hold them back.

[Assembly Hall]

Could be, but the game calling can be concerning at times. To be honest, there probably is one team in the country talent wise that can go toe to toe with OSU right now. They don't need play calling to hold them back.

Michigan? LOL, couldn't help myself.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Could be, but the game calling can be concerning at times. To be honest, there probably is one team in the country talent wise that can go toe to toe with OSU right now. They don't need play calling to hold them back.

Right that is my concern too. We didn't lose to MSU last year because of talent or having a bad day or even the weather. We lost because the play calling was awful, and I thought it was pretty bad on Saturday too. It was a 3 TD victory and overall a solid performance, so I know I'm picking nits here, just something to watch out for I guess.

[RedTeamGo!]

Michigan? LOL, couldn't help myself.

Michigan is obviously good, but talent-wise they aren't there with OSU and Alabama yet. Maybe next year or two, but not right now.

[Hillsdale87]

J.T. definitely has his good and bad days, but all together he's not an especially accomplished passer. He's always been poor in throwing the deep ball and that's never been more apparent than yesterday. He had guys open, but he wasn't even giving them a chance to get the ball.

I think the knee-jerk reaction is to assume Barrett's poor passing will equate to losses, but I don't think it'll be that big of a deal. Certainly, you want to see him lacing passes around the field like Dan Marino, but I think this Buckeye team has plenty of talent to overcome this deficiency. There are enough weapons on offense (and not too many) that they can spread the ball around and keep the defense off balance. J.T. just needs to be adequate and connect on the occasional deep ball to keep defenses honest. I think Noah Brown can be a guy that will get you tough possession yards as well. Weber's a very good RB and Samuel is of course a weapon. Wilson and Campbell present enough athleticism to be a problem for defenses. And for whatever Barrett lacks in skill, he makes up for at the collegiate level in guile, consistently makes great option reads, always seems to squeeze out an extra few yards and has a heck of a nose for the end zone.

I also think that Indiana is an top-half B1G team. Kevin Wilson seems to have the foundation of a real program in Bloomington.

The deep ball is definitely a problem, but Barrett was pretty effective throwing deep as a Freshman. Obviously he couldn't throw the deep ball like Cardale, but he hit Devin Smith deep quite a bit. But he missed badly on a few easy throws. The one to Samuel was remarkably bad, both because he made the read way late even though Samuel was open by about 10 yards, but then it was incredibly underthrown.

My concern with Barrett is that he's not making the intermediate throws. He holds the ball so long, even when there are 4-5 receivers running what are supposed to be quick hits. We can't see down the field, so it's hard to see whether receivers are open, but I have a hard time believing that our top recruit receivers aren't able to get open. The running game is great, but the passing game needs to be able to pick up first downs too, and I have no confidence that it can do that. I think the run game is good enough that this won't really matter until playing Michigan, but the offense needs to be able to move the ball in the air to beat Michigan and then progress through the playoff.

[bucksfan2]

Right that is my concern too. We didn't lose to MSU last year because of talent or having a bad day or even the weather. We lost because the play calling was awful, and I thought it was pretty bad on Saturday too. It was a 3 TD victory and overall a solid performance, so I know I'm picking nits here, just something to watch out for I guess.

The 2007 OSU vs Michigan game in Ann Arbor was played in terrible weather. OSU had the more talented team, the better team, the team that ended up getting beat by LSU in the title game. Anyway, IIRC OSU got an early lead, and then just played field position the entire game. Tressel at the time was happy to get a couple of first downs, put the ball, and then make Michigan go 80+ yards for a score. It was a boring game to watch when you consider the talent on the field. It was a pretty ugly game to watch, but at win is a win. The problem with those types of games, especially low scoring games in which you are the more talented club, is when you let a team hang around, one bad snap, one tipped pass, one botched FG attempt can swing the momentum of the game.

Urban came in and did away with Tressel ball for the most part. Sure there are some games in which you expect more, but its difficult when you consider the players are 18-22 year olds. I remember watching that MSU game with a sickening feeling that MSU is going to get a FG attempt to end the game. OSU went ultra conservative, they let the wind become the factor in the play calling. There was no reason that team shouldn't have made the playoff last season with all the talent they had. It came down to a very vanilla called game, a game in which they continued to force the ball on running plays to Braxton, a game plan that they never attempted to stretch the field.

There is something to be said with just winning the game. There is something to be said about running the ball until a team can stop you. But as a fan who has seen the current play callers stall out at times, its concerning to me when they can't throw the ball with all the weapons they have. Its concerning to me when you have a heisman caliber QB throwing the ball, that they don't trust him to make the right decisions. Its a 21 point win over IU, hopefully they don't have another blah game against top competition, because they may lose that game.

[Hoosier Red]

Wilson has raised the talent level, but his game skills.....ugh. He does "what?????" calls every game I see them play.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

Certainly a lot of questions about his play calling. Got much more conservative than most Hoosier fans I follow would have liked. On the flip side, despite an offense not firing on all cylinders, called games that allowed team to defeat tMSU and hang in against tOSU in back to back weeks. Much of that is due to the wizardry of Tom Allen's defense, but after 5 interceptions and a blocked FG against Wake Forest, I'm thinking Wilson's spent the last two weeks trying to make sure his offense and suddenly shaky kicking game didn't lose the game. The simple fact that he could lean that heavily on the defense is progress.

[Assembly Hall]

Certainly a lot of questions about his play calling. Got much more conservative than most Hoosier fans I follow would have liked. On the flip side, despite an offense not firing on all cylinders, called games that allowed team to defeat tMSU and hang in against tOSU in back to back weeks. Much of that is due to the wizardry of Tom Allen's defense, but after 5 interceptions and a blocked FG against Wake Forest, I'm thinking Wilson's spent the last two weeks trying to make sure his offense and suddenly shaky kicking game didn't lose the game. The simple fact that he could lean that heavily on the defense is progress.

That kicking game still has me puzzled. As a Hoosier fan it did piss me off that we go into to the #2 teams house and get conservative. Yet alone kept on trying to run the ball with our stud OLineman out. Sorry for the rant.

[traderumor]

Certainly a lot of questions about his play calling. Got much more conservative than most Hoosier fans I follow would have liked. On the flip side, despite an offense not firing on all cylinders, called games that allowed team to defeat tMSU and hang in against tOSU in back to back weeks. Much of that is due to the wizardry of Tom Allen's defense, but after 5 interceptions and a blocked FG against Wake Forest, I'm thinking Wilson's spent the last two weeks trying to make sure his offense and suddenly shaky kicking game didn't lose the game. The simple fact that he could lean that heavily on the defense is progress.
Well, MSU is bad, and the play mix run vs pass was, while appreciated, just puzzling. I think thd QB would have picked apart our D, who was getting no pass rush, if given more opportunities.

[Roy Tucker]

I think I'm going to really hate this game.

[Hillsdale87]

I think I'm going to really hate this game.

It's certainly been bad so far. OSU is talented enough to get away with not having a balanced offense against bad and mediocre teams. We'll see how the rest of this game goes, but it's going to be tough to put up points against a team like Wisconsin when they have personnel to stop the run.

[Roy Tucker]

Wisconsin is outcoaching the Bucks. Too many unanticipated plays by OSU.

[19braves77]

Not impressed with Ohio State. Players look unmotivated.

[Hillsdale87]

How is OSU so unprepared for sweeps? I don't know why Wisconsin doesn't just run those every play. OSU is outmanned every time.

And as usual, Barrett needs to pick it up passing. His timing is way off

[Roy Tucker]

Ugh.

[Hillsdale87]

That 3 minute downpour was crazy. Perfectly timed for an interception

[Hillsdale87]

Reversing that INT is so bad... No evidence to do that

[Roy Tucker]

OT

[Kilgore_Trout]

Gutsy, hard fought win there. The youngest team in college football just grew up a little. Still room for growth but man, it ain't easy winning in Madison.

[dougdirt]

it ain't easy winning in Madison.

That's what cracked me up with the postgame question: Why do you have so much trouble here?

Uh, because they are always a very good team and it's a road game?

[Hillsdale87]

Whew. There were a lot of good things in the second half. The passing game got a little bit of a rhythm going. The pass Barrett threw to Brown on 3rd and Long to get OSU down near the 10 was the best throw I think Barrett has made this season. The defense was a lot more swarming. The run D was still a little disappointing considering how good it had been coming in and how bad Wisconsin had been, but the D really picked it up in the second half. Hopefully they can build on this

[GAC]

Hard fought gutsy win in O.T. I was worried about this game simply for the fact it was in Madison. Not exactly the most "conducive" environment for any B1G opponents.

What really pee'd me off, in the 2nd half, was when our defense would have them on the ropes (3rd and long), and deep in their own territory, and let them off the hook.... particularly the Wisconsin drive that resulted in their lone 4th quarter TD. Then in O.T. after the Bucks scored the TD, they allowed another huge play, after stuffing them, down inside our 5 yd line. I had to leave the room for some fresh air (LOL). When I come back it's 4th and goal -ALRIGHT! - and they stuff their QB to end the game.

Definitely a thriller!

[Assembly Hall]

I can't wait until the rematch!!!!! Helluva game.

[Roy Tucker]

I think with Wisconsin having an off week before this game they threw a lot of wrinkles in their offense they hadn't show before. Particularly that jet sweep that outflanked the OSU defense and routes for the tight end. It took halftime adjustments to shut those things off.

If you've ever been to Camp Randall for a night game, you realize it gets really drunk out and it's as loud and rowdy as you can get. Great second half comeback in a very hostile place.

[RiverRat13]

Wisconsin was the first team OSU played this year that could punch them in the mouth. Oklahoma is soft, just like the whole of the Big 12. They weren't going to beat an Urban Meyer coached team. It took a half but eventually OSU adjusted (and made several great adjustments overall at halftime). The funny thing is, last night really didn't mean much. OSU still has to beat UM and win in Indy to get to the playoffs. That would not have changed with a loss last night. But playing Wisconsin is great prep for the Michigan game.

[traderumor]

Wisconsin played great at home and still lost. Whats that say about the Buckeyes. Wisconsin did well in the coaching matchup, but "outcoached" is not fair. They had two weeks and did an overhaul on offense....a stout D gave up 30....a very good Wisconsin team, better than I estimated.

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[traderumor]

Wisconsin was the first team OSU played this year that could punch them in the mouth. Oklahoma is soft, just like the whole of the Big 12. They weren't going to beat an Urban Meyer coached team. It took a half but eventually OSU adjusted (and made several great adjustments overall at halftime). The funny thing is, last night really didn't mean much. OSU still has to beat UM and win in Indy to get to the playoffs. That would not have changed with a loss last night. But playing Wisconsin is great prep for the Michigan game.
It matters very much between controlling a playoff spot vs. hoping that you are one of the one loss teamsto make the final four.

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[RiverRat13]

It matters very much between controlling a playoff spot vs. hoping that you are one of the one loss teamsto make the final four.

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There's zero chance a one loss OSU B1G Champion would be left out.

[GAC]

I think with Wisconsin having an off week before this game they threw a lot of wrinkles in their offense they hadn't show before. Particularly that jet sweep that outflanked the OSU defense and routes for the tight end. It took halftime adjustments to shut those things off.

And it'll be the same this next week vs Penn State which had a bye this past weekend. No, PSU ain't no Wisconsin, but Happy Valley isn't "happy" for a lot of opponents, and they'll try to throw the kitchen sink at OSU.

[traderumor]

There's zero chance a one loss OSU B1G Champion would be left out.

The system is subjective, I'd rather they not have to find out if the committee uses different criteria than you estimate they will. Men are corrupt and do dumb things, so when you can remove all doubt, that is the better position.

[traderumor]

And it'll be the same this next week vs Penn State which had a bye this past weekend. No, PSU ain't no Wisconsin, but Happy Valley isn't "happy" for a lot of opponents, and they'll try to throw the kitchen sink at OSU.Penn State is not good. They may have some tricks up their sleeve, but they do not have the talent that Wisconsin has. I think it will be a more convincing win this week.

[RedTeamGo!]

There's zero chance a one loss OSU B1G Champion would be left out.

Eh, not so sure of this. But, really, one loss to an undefeated Michigan and OSU is sitting out of the playoff.

[Assembly Hall]

Eh, not so sure of this. But, really, one loss to an undefeated Michigan and OSU is sitting out of the playoff.

Just gonna have to see how other things shake out.

[puca]

Eh, not so sure of this. But, really, one loss to an undefeated Michigan and OSU is sitting out of the playoff.

Probably true, but depends. Assuming both teams otherwise run the table and the winner of Michigan/Ohio State is ranked #2, then the loser has a pretty strong 1-loss resume.

I doubt that they would put two teams from the same conference in the playoffs, but you never know.

[puca]

Ohio State playing once again like they are afraid to lose. These are exactly the types of games they do lose.

[Roy Tucker]

Blergh.

Tough bad weather night road game.

[Redsfaithful]

Ohio State playing once again like they are afraid to lose. These are exactly the types of games they do lose.

Not true, and not really.

It does share some similarity to the Michigan State game last year with the weather. Weather's an equalizer.

[Roy Tucker]

Yes.

[puca]

Not true, and not really.

It does share some similarity to the Michigan State game last year with the weather. Weather's an equalizer.

The reluctance to throw the ball down the field especially on early downs cripples the offense. They are not a good bad weather team. Pity since they play in the big 10.

[Stray]

Didn't think this one would be close, but PSU's defense has been much better than I thought they'd be. Fun game tho. (for someone w/o rooting interest at least)

[Tom Servo]

Might have a legit gripe on that lack of a pass interference call. Still doesn't excuse the sub standard play.

[Stray]

Did not see that coming at all. PSU's DL got in the backfield all night tho. Impressive win w/lesser roster.

[Hillsdale87]

This offense has been out of sorts for 2 years now. There's enough talent that they've been able to overcome it, but the coaching needs to improve. With the amount of talent at WR, the lack of performance of our receivers is inexcusable.


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[RedTeamGo!]

Offensive line sucks
WR's suck
Tim Beck is frigging awful and sucks so bad. Why is the guy coaching at OSU? Does anyone know?

Also, I really like JT Barrett, but I'm ready to move on. I think defenses have figured out he has a weak arm, although it definitely helps when you can get away with BLATANT PI:

11604

[BillDoran]

Offensive line sucks
WR's suck
Tim Beck is frigging awful and sucks so bad. Why is the guy coaching at OSU? Does anyone know?

Also, I really like JT Barrett, but I'm ready to move on. I think defenses have figured out he has a weak arm, although it definitely helps when you can get away with BLATANT PI:


Funny you single out Beck, because from what I'd gather he's the third opinion in playcalling.

Griping about penalties is also lame. They absolutely missed that pass interference call and the horse collar call was wrong as well, but them's the breaks. The penalties were skewed (8-45 for Ohio State, 1-5 for Penn State), but it wasn't like the refs were blatantly bad or trying to throw the game. The calls are going to go against you on the road.

Meyer said it in the post-game press conference, this team just isn't that great right now. Can't hit anything over the top and teams are loading up now. It's the same problem we've had since JT has been quarterback. The defense isn't as dominate as we were initially led to believe. Outside of the Oklahoma game, this is a team that devoured some cupcakes and has had to really battle with any team of substance.

Still one of the youngest teams in FBS. Lots of room for improvement and lots of reason for optimism. Were they to win out, I'd think they still stand a pretty good shot at getting into the playoffs.

[RedTeamGo!]

Funny you single out Beck, because from what I'd gather he's the third opinion in playcalling.

Griping about penalties is also lame. They absolutely missed that pass interference call and the horse collar call was wrong as well, but them's the breaks. The penalties were skewed (8-45 for Ohio State, 1-5 for Penn State), but it wasn't like the refs were blatantly bad or trying to throw the game. The calls are going to go against you on the road.

Meyer said it in the post-game press conference, this team just isn't that great right now. Can't hit anything over the top and teams are loading up now. It's the same problem we've had since JT has been quarterback. The defense isn't as dominate as we were initially led to believe. Outside of the Oklahoma game, this is a team that devoured some cupcakes and has had to really battle with any team of substance.

Still one of the youngest teams in FBS. Lots of room for improvement and lots of reason for optimism. Were they to win out, I'd think they still stand a pretty good shot at getting into the playoffs.

I wasn't griping about penalties, I pointed out three areas the buckeyes suck in, and then simply pointed out a blatant PI at a crucial time.

I simply do not understand how a group full of 5 star receivers cannot separate from their DBs. Like at all.

[Assembly Hall]

What's done is done. Now ya better get focused on Northwestern.

[RiverRat13]

It's a young team. I expected them to drop a couple of games in the regular season and show improvement as the year goes on. The lack of improvement is really the only worrisome thing about last night. It is starting to look like promoting Warinner was a move that hurt Ohio State in two areas - playcalling and offensive line development. If things don't get better, I expect Meyer to encourage Warinner, Beck and Zach Smith all to make their next move up the coaching ladder, whatever that may be.

[KoryMac5]

James Franklin saved his job last night with this win, probably buys him another 2 yrs.

Urban has to put a big chunk of this loss on his shoulders, to me it almost seemed like he felt he was up more than 21-7 by how conservative OSU got. I feel your kicker is going to give you nighmares....

[BillDoran]

James Franklin saved his job last night with this win, probably buys him another 2 yrs.

Urban has to put a big chunk of this loss on his shoulders, to me it almost seemed like he felt he was up more than 21-7 by how conservative OSU got. I feel your kicker is going to give you nighmares....

Agreed. That catastrophic field goal attempt was monumentally dumb. Felt like the move of a much less seasoned coach.

[RedTeamGo!]

Agreed. That catastrophic field goal attempt was monumentally dumb. Felt like the move of a much less seasoned coach.

I was screaming at the tv "CALL A TIMEOUT!!!!"

[Redsfaithful]

Expecting the refs to call the game correctly is never lame. The PI wasn't just a missed call, it's probably a catch if the receiver wasn't tackled before the ball got there. It was a well thrown ball.

[traderumor]

I will never understand the logic of expecting players and coaches to do their jobs and call good plays and execute those that are called, but missed calls that affect the outcome of games, like happened late in this one, such as horse collar, an illegal leap on the blocked kick, and the PI miss is not choking just the same. Its not excuse making, its pointing out that the officials also choked and affected the outcome of a game.

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[traderumor]

Good playing, good coaching, good officiating, may the best team win. Its fair game to say that all impact a game and the outcome.

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[puca]

Surprisingly (at least to me) they only fell to #6 in the poll. Certainly control their own destiny, though I have my doubts Ohio State will beat Michigan. If their offensive line had trouble with Penn St. (and they did), Michigan very well might stuff the run all day and give Barrett little time in the pocket. Good news for Ohio State fans is that once they suffer a loss they usually open up the offense.

[BillDoran]

Expecting the refs to call the game correctly is never lame. The PI wasn't just a missed call, it's probably a catch if the receiver wasn't tackled before the ball got there. It was a well thrown ball.


I will never understand the logic of expecting players and coaches to do their jobs and call good plays and execute those that are called, but missed calls that affect the outcome of games, like happened late in this one, such as horse collar, an illegal leap on the blocked kick, and the PI miss is not choking just the same. Its not excuse making, its pointing out that the officials also choked and affected the outcome of a game.

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My thought on bad officiating - which it was - is that it's chance. Refs are going to make mistakes. It's human error. Sometimes the calls will be in your favor. Sometimes they won't. It's not a conspiracy. It's just unfortunate. It's also unavoidable. Complaining about refereeing errors is like complaining about the weather or the bounce of the ball

[traderumor]

My thought on bad officiating - which it was - is that it's chance. Refs are going to make mistakes. It's human error. Sometimes the calls will be in your favor. Sometimes they won't. It's not a conspiracy. It's just unfortunate. It's also unavoidable. Complaining about refereeing errors is like complaining about the weather or the bounce of the ball
I was not saying the bad calls or non-calls were shady, just to be clear. I do not agree that it is the same as chance, officials have jobs to do, so I expect them to do them, and that is controllable. Officials are responsible to be competent and execute their job. But for some reason, folks make illogical conclusions, when, despite the fact that a correct call on the blocked FG would have completely changed the outcome of that game, folks say, well the oline played bad. Yet, despite that, they would have had a great chance of holding on but for the refs not doing THEIR job at a critical time.

[GAC]

Penn State is not good. They may have some tricks up their sleeve, but they do not have the talent that Wisconsin has. I think it will be a more convincing win this week.

What were you saying there buddy? LOL

Happy Valley at night is not a good setting for any opponent. Like a lot, and since before the season, OSU's one "sore spot" was going to be their defense, which is very young/inexperienced. They've played pretty well, matured, but still have given up the yardage.

Two blocked punts that turned into 10 pts doesn't help though.

I agree with Myer's comments that this team, right now, is not a great team. Again, talented, but young.

[GAC]

Surprisingly (at least to me) they only fell to #6 in the poll.

I figured they'd stay in the Top 10 somewhere.

Nebraska gets exposed this next Saturday when they go to Madison (LOL). Their undefeated record does not tell the whole story IMO. Who have they played? They slipped by a simply terrible Oregon team. They had to do a second half comeback against two terrible B1G teams (Illinois and Purdue - tied for last in the West). I'll give them an honorable mention for their victories vs Northwestern and Indiana (LOL).

[Hillsdale87]

I simply do not understand how a group full of 5 star receivers cannot separate from their DBs. Like at all.

This is what doesn't make any sense. They had the same problem last year with Miller, Marshall, and Thomas, who are all effective rookie receivers. Either the routes are poorly constructed or the route running is bad, but there is no way that the offensive coaching staff should stay the same based on what we've seen from the WRs the last 2 years.

[bucksfan2]

This is what doesn't make any sense. They had the same problem last year with Miller, Marshall, and Thomas, who are all effective rookie receivers. Either the routes are poorly constructed or the route running is bad, but there is no way that the offensive coaching staff should stay the same based on what we've seen from the WRs the last 2 years.

This was the third game in a row in which the offensive game plan was called in a way not to lose. When you call a game not to lose, you allow fluke things to come into play and dictate the outcome of a game. Look it took a blocked punt and FG (returned for a TD) for PSU to beat OSU. But it happened, it happened when the OSU offense went into a shell, played not to lose, and allowed a lesser PSU teams to make a couple of fluke plays to beat them. I think most OSU fans who were worried about the team, even though the continued to win, were for moments like last weekend. Or MSU last season, or MSU in 2013, when a poorly called and executed game allowed team to upset the bucks.

Hopefully this loss will benefit the team. Hopefully the coaching staff goes back to the drawing board, lets Barrett loose, and the team begin to fire on all cylinders. You saw it last year, that the loss to MSU "freed" the team and they played the last two games of the year up to their potential. Hopefully that happens this season. Because it would be a shame to see as talented of a team as they have fall short because the coaching staff can't make the adjustments.

[BuckeyeRed27]

What were you saying there buddy? LOL

Happy Valley at night is not a good setting for any opponent. Like a lot, and since before the season, OSU's one "sore spot" was going to be their defense, which is very young/inexperienced. They've played pretty well, matured, but still have given up the yardage.

Two blocked punts that turned into 10 pts doesn't help though.

I agree with Myer's comments that this team, right now, is not a great team. Again, talented, but young.

I thought the defense was pretty solid for the most part. Penn St was 2/13 on 3rd downs and only had like 250 yards. The drive right before half time was pretty bad, but their QB took some chances and got away with it.

This game was about 80% on the O line and 20% on special teams. You aren't going to beat teams with a pulse if you don't control the line and Penn St was in the back field the entire second half. Even that wouldn't have mattered if you don't have a blocked punt and a blocked kick and also a missed extra point.

I'm always mad when we lose, but this doesn't change anything. Just win out and we should be fine. The exception being is if OSU wins out, Penn St wins out and Michigan loses to OSU and somebody else.

[GAC]

I'm always mad when we lose, but this doesn't change anything. Just win out and we should be fine.

I agree. I went into this season ... because we lost some quality players, and they're very young, inexperienced ... that this team may incur a loss or two this year.


The exception being is if OSU wins out, Penn St wins out and Michigan loses to OSU and somebody else.

I can easily see PSU winning out looking at their remaining schedule. The only game where they may get tested (beat) would be the game at Indiana.

But this is how I understand it to work..... http://www.espn.com/college-football/recap?gameId=400869645


The Buckeyes are in much better position to recover.

Penn State is now in the mix, but the Wolverines and Buckeyes still have the advantage in the division. If they all finish 8-1 in the conference and the Buckeyes beat Michigan, Penn State -- which has already lost to the Wolverines -- would be eliminated from three-way tiebreaker because of a worse overall record.

[BuckeyeRed27]

I agree. I went into this season ... because we lost some quality players, and they're very young, inexperienced ... that this team may incur a loss or two this year.



I can easily see PSU winning out looking at their remaining schedule. The only game where they may get tested (beat) would be the game at Indiana.

But this is how I understand it to work..... http://www.espn.com/college-football/recap?gameId=400869645

Yes that is correct assuming Michigan's only loss is to OSU. But if they lose to OSU and anyone else, there is no longer a 3 way tie and Penn St has the tie breaker over OSU with the head to head. So OSU fans are rooting for either PSU to lose to anyone or Michigan to not lose to anyone except OSU.

[GAC]

Yes that is correct assuming Michigan's only loss is to OSU. But if they lose to OSU and anyone else, there is no longer a 3 way tie and Penn St has the tie breaker over OSU with the head to head. So OSU fans are rooting for either PSU to lose to anyone or Michigan to not lose to anyone except OSU.

OK. Gotcha. So you're tellin' me - other then a PSU loss of course - but if that doesn't happen - in order for us to win any tie-breaker I have to root for Michigan the remainder of the way till they play us? #@@***** :bang: LOL

[bucksfan2]

OK. Gotcha. So you're tellin' me - other then a PSU loss of course - but if that doesn't happen - in order for us to win any tie-breaker I have to root for Michigan the remainder of the way till they play us? #@@***** :bang: LOL

PSU has Sparty to end the season, I think MSU can beat them as well.

It will be interesting to see what a committee does in case carnage happens. For example, UM loses to OSU plus another team, PSU runs the table but loses to Wisconsin in the title game, OSU runs the table. Will a 1 loss OSU with wins over @Oklahoma, @Wisc, Nebraska, and UM all in the top 10-15 be left out?

[RedTeamGo!]

Is JT Barrett definitely the QB next year?

[bucksfan2]

Is JT Barrett definitely the QB next year?

Yep. Unless he decides to turn pro.

[RedTeamGo!]

Yep. Unless he decides to turn pro.

I doubt he will do that, love the guy, but he is not an NFL qb whatsoever. Might as well work towards a graduate degree and be a star on campus for another year.

[*BaseClogger*]

Is JT Barrett definitely the QB next year?

JT Barrett doesn't have a strong arm, but in just about every other facet of quarter-backing he is exceptional. There probably aren't more than a couple better college QBs in the country. Are you hinting that you would prefer if he wasn't Ohio State's QB next season?

[BuckeyeRed27]

Is JT Barrett definitely the QB next year?

I sure hope so. The team is going to be even more loaded next year than this year, and if we don't have to replace JT...look out.

[RedTeamGo!]

JT Barrett doesn't have a strong arm, but in just about every other facet of quarter-backing he is exceptional. There probably aren't more than a couple better college QBs in the country. Are you hinting that you would prefer if he wasn't Ohio State's QB next season?

I just think with all the ridiculously talented WRs coming in, having a weak armed qb is kind of an issue.

I'm just saying I would be OK either way.

[Hillsdale87]

I just think with all the ridiculously talented WRs coming in, having a weak armed qb is kind of an issue.

I'm just saying I would be OK either way.

I would agree. There can't be 5 programs in the country with the WR talent that OSU has and the OSU passing attack is bad. The first read is almost never open, and then JT scans the field for a while and usually checks down to Weber or Baugh. We've got tons of speed, so how can they not get the ball to a guy in space? That is either on Barrett, Warriner/Beck, or Zach Smith. Based on the success that Barrett had throwing the ball his freshman year, my thought is that it is the coaches. The passing game was great under Herman and has been awful since, first with Cardale and then JT. Cardale even seemed to hint at coaching/play calling issues on twitter after the game.

So at least 1 of those 3 has to go. Probably at least one coach.


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[GAC]

PSU has Sparty to end the season, I think MSU can beat them as well.

MSU is a mess (LOL). And that game is in Happy Valley with a game time TBA.


It will be interesting to see what a committee does in case carnage happens. For example, UM loses to OSU plus another team, PSU runs the table but loses to Wisconsin in the title game, OSU runs the table. Will a 1 loss OSU with wins over @Oklahoma, @Wisc, Nebraska, and UM all in the top 10-15 be left out?

The winner of the B!G title game is in. At least that's been the trend of the NCAA when it comes to conference championship games. If Wisconsin wins that conference championship game, why would the committee vault OSU over them into a play-off spot even if the scenario you present occurs? Both teams would have one loss - BUT - Wisconsin's would be to a then #2 ranked OSU, and OSU's was to an unranked PSU. Just ain't gonna happen IMO.

[puca]

MSU is a mess (LOL). And that game is in Happy Valley with a game time TBA.



The winner of the B!G title game is in. At least that's been the trend of the NCAA when it comes to conference championship games. If Wisconsin wins that conference championship game, why would the committee vault OSU over them into a play-off spot even if the scenario you present occurs? Both teams would have one loss - BUT - Wisconsin's would be to a then #2 ranked OSU, and OSU's was to an unranked PSU. Just ain't gonna happen IMO.

Wisconsin has 2 losses (Michigan and Ohio State). If they are the B1G champions, then it wouldn't surprise me to see the conference shut out of the BCS tournament. It would be hard to justify letting in another B1G school ahead of them, there will be plenty of 1-loss teams to choose from and Wisconsin probably isn't 'sexy' enough to give them a pass. I think it is a moot point anyhow, because unless Ohio State rediscovers it's offensive mojo, I don't see anyone equipped to take down Michigan.

[BillDoran]

I would agree. There can't be 5 programs in the country with the WR talent that OSU has and the OSU passing attack is bad. The first read is almost never open, and then JT scans the field for a while and usually checks down to Weber or Baugh. We've got tons of speed, so how can they not get the ball to a guy in space? That is either on Barrett, Warriner/Beck, or Zach Smith. Based on the success that Barrett had throwing the ball his freshman year, my thought is that it is the coaches. The passing game was great under Herman and has been awful since, first with Cardale and then JT. Cardale even seemed to hint at coaching/play calling issues on twitter after the game.

So at least 1 of those 3 has to go. Probably at least one coach.


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Let's pump the breaks here a bit. In 2014, under the founder of MENSA, Ohio State's offense was fifth in the country in points per game. The 2016 offense is also currently fifth in points per game.

Before Ohio State hit that turbo in the postseason, the offense had some real clunkers. Of course, Virginia Tech was painful. Barrett managed just 74 yards passing, one TD and two INT against Penn State in Happy Valley. There were two other games in 2014 (Minnesota and Michigan) where the team threw for 200 yards or less. I recall there being some folks being upset with Herman in the middle of the title season.

This year the Indiana game was ugly, especially in regards to passing. Tulsa wasn't exactly an aerial assault (though it didn't need to be). Say what you will about the deep ball, but the Ohio State offense managed 245 yards through the air last weekend.

I think it's fair to critique the passing game, but it seems advisable to keep in mind that rarely are football seasons steady.

[*BaseClogger*]

I would agree. There can't be 5 programs in the country with the WR talent that OSU has and the OSU passing attack is bad. The first read is almost never open, and then JT scans the field for a while and usually checks down to Weber or Baugh. We've got tons of speed, so how can they not get the ball to a guy in space? That is either on Barrett, Warriner/Beck, or Zach Smith. Based on the success that Barrett had throwing the ball his freshman year, my thought is that it is the coaches. The passing game was great under Herman and has been awful since, first with Cardale and then JT. Cardale even seemed to hint at coaching/play calling issues on twitter after the game.

So at least 1 of those 3 has to go. Probably at least one coach.

I think it's interesting you completely ignored pass protection, which was the biggest issue in Happy Valley IMO.

If the first read wasn't open, and a check-down pass was completed, how is that Barrett's fault? *Especially* when it usually involved theatrics for him to avoid a pass rush beforehand?

Recruiting rankings don't always translate to the field. Whether they are targeting the wrong prospects or it's a matter of coaches developing talent, the Buckeye WRs aren't getting it done right now.

Urban Meyer offenses have always been run-heavy. For all the flash associated with a spread offense, at its core this is a power running team.

I also think you ignore the possibility that teams have adjusted to Barrett's strengths. He was mostly an unknown his freshman year and the team was constantly evolving and improving, making them difficult to prepare for on film. By now, the cat is out of the bag and teams know they can stack the line. Barrett hasn't been able to complete many passes over-the-top, but he's been close. I think we see a couple of good deep balls completed in the coming weeks and we all feel a lot more confident heading into the showdown with Michigan...

[bucksfan2]

MSU is a mess (LOL). And that game is in Happy Valley with a game time TBA.



The winner of the B!G title game is in. At least that's been the trend of the NCAA when it comes to conference championship games. If Wisconsin wins that conference championship game, why would the committee vault OSU over them into a play-off spot even if the scenario you present occurs? Both teams would have one loss - BUT - Wisconsin's would be to a then #2 ranked OSU, and OSU's was to an unranked PSU. Just ain't gonna happen IMO.

Two plays drastically changed the landscape of college football last season. One was a flukish blocked punt returned for a TD as time expired to send MSU over Michigan. The other was a backward heave as time expired that allowed Arkansas to lateral the ball a few more time and beat Ole Miss. Had both of those plays ended up being conventional, non flukish, Ole Miss would have made the SEC title game over Alabama and OSU would have made the title game over MSU.

I hate the notion that the committee uses winning the conference championship above all, because any college fan knows the skewed nature of the conference title games. How many conferences have their best two teams in opposing divisions? Too often you have seen less than marquis games in the title game, and one of the best four teams gets left out because of the title game.

[Hillsdale87]

Let's pump the breaks here a bit. In 2014, under the founder of MENSA, Ohio State's offense was fifth in the country in points per game. The 2016 offense is also currently fifth in points per game.

Before Ohio State hit that turbo in the postseason, the offense had some real clunkers. Of course, Virginia Tech was painful. Barrett managed just 74 yards passing, one TD and two INT against Penn State in Happy Valley. There were two other games in 2014 (Minnesota and Michigan) where the team threw for 200 yards or less. I recall there being some folks being upset with Herman in the middle of the title season.

This year the Indiana game was ugly, especially in regards to passing. Tulsa wasn't exactly an aerial assault (though it didn't need to be). Say what you will about the deep ball, but the Ohio State offense managed 245 yards through the air last weekend.

I think it's fair to critique the passing game, but it seems advisable to keep in mind that rarely are football seasons steady.

Barrett played against Penn State with a torn knee ligament, the Minnesota game was in a blizzard, and he broke his ankle on the 1st play of the 4th quarter against Michigan. There were specific reasons for the passing game issues in those games.

I think it's also reasonable to expect Barrett/the offense to be better in Barrett's 3rd season than his 1st. And yes, there were 245 passing yards, but on 43 attempts. Less than 6 yards/attempt is bad.

The deep ball is definitely an issue. I'll give Barrett credit for throwing a great one at the end of the PSU game where the ref missed a blatant PI. But that's the only one I can think of this year. He's had multiple wide open that he hasn't hit.

[Hillsdale87]

I think it's interesting you completely ignored pass protection, which was the biggest issue in Happy Valley IMO.

If the first read wasn't open, and a check-down pass was completed, how is that Barrett's fault? *Especially* when it usually involved theatrics for him to avoid a pass rush beforehand?

Recruiting rankings don't always translate to the field. Whether they are targeting the wrong prospects or it's a matter of coaches developing talent, the Buckeye WRs aren't getting it done right now.

Urban Meyer offenses have always been run-heavy. For all the flash associated with a spread offense, at its core this is a power running team.

I also think you ignore the possibility that teams have adjusted to Barrett's strengths. He was mostly an unknown his freshman year and the team was constantly evolving and improving, making them difficult to prepare for on film. By now, the cat is out of the bag and teams know they can stack the line. Barrett hasn't been able to complete many passes over-the-top, but he's been close. I think we see a couple of good deep balls completed in the coming weeks and we all feel a lot more confident heading into the showdown with Michigan...

Yes the offensive line was an issue against PSU, but the passing game has been bad in other games when the line has played well, and all last year.

I didn't say it was Barrett's fault. I said it is either his fault or offensive coaches. If guys are open and he's not making the reads quickly enough, it's Barrett's fault. If guys aren't getting open, then the coaches need to go because there is too much talent and speed at WR for that to be the case.

And if teams have adjusted to Barrett's strengths and this is his ceiling because he can't throw the ball downfield, then QB should be a competition next year between Barrett, Haskins, and Martell. With the weapons that OSU has at skill positions, plus a good OL (outside of the PSU game), this team should score 30+ against almost anybody, regardless of the quarterback. If teams can now just stack the line and keep CBs in single coverage knowing that Barrett can't beat them, that's a problem. I would love to see a few deep balls hit, but based on this season, I don't have much confidence.

[GAC]

Watching this team over the last few weeks, IMO, I think they've just become to predictable with their heavy reliance on Barrett (option run). They need to get talent like Samuel and Weber better implemented into this offensive scheme.

[traderumor]

Watching this team over the last few weeks, IMO, I think they've just become to predictable with their heavy reliance on Barrett (option run). They need to get talent like Samuel and Weber better implemented into this offensive scheme.

A really nice Warriner interview is on CBS Sports app if you want to see his discussion on this issue.

[GAC]

This game is just frustrating and painful to watch. OSU started off quick, and from there it's just been uninspiring and predictable offensively. Ya' just want to pull your hair out with some of the play calling (LOL)

I give credit where credit is due, and Fitzgerald is a solid coach, and the Wildcats have really came on after a bad start to the season. I just don't understand why we can't throw the ball down field?

And our defensive secondary is laughable.

Bucks retake the lead 24-17 on a solid drive (finally).

But here comes the Wildcats (LOL)

[GAC]

I can't tell ya how many times it's occurred, in recent weeks, where the Bucks get the opponent 3rd down and very long ..... only to give up the big play, and usually down inside our redzone too. (LOL)

Held them to a FG

24-20 OSU with over three minutes left

[Assembly Hall]

Don't sell the Bucks short. The Wildcats are a quality opponent. A win is a win.........tOSU wins out and they are in great shape. Wanna talk about my Hoosiers? LOL

[GAC]

Don't sell the Bucks short. The Wildcats are a quality opponent. A win is a win.........tOSU wins out and they are in great shape. Wanna talk about my Hoosiers? LOL

I'm certainly not selling the Wildcats short at all. Like I said - Fitzgerald is a heck of a coach... QB Thorson is second in the B1G in passing yardage/pass efficiency... they have the #1 receiver in the conference in Austin Carr ... and their RB (Jackson) is #2 in the B1G. I couldn't believe we were giving them 21.5 pts (LOL) - which I took.

OSU is a very young team, so I knew they'd have issues. But this offense has really struggled over the last few weeks, and I think it's because they have become so predictable, too heavily reliant on Barrett. Just my take.

[puca]

I wouldn't be surprised to find out Barrett is struggling with some shoulder issues. His accuracy has deserted him and he throws downfield when it is absolutely necessary and sometimes not even then. He may have never been a great passer, but he was always a prolific one, and never used to shy away from taking shots downfield.

[BuckeyeRed27]

I wouldn't be surprised to find out Barrett is struggling with some shoulder issues. His accuracy has deserted him and he throws downfield when it is absolutely necessary and sometimes not even then. He may have never been a great passer, but he was always a prolific one, and never used to shy away from taking shots downfield.

I was able to go to the game Saturday and I had the exact same thought basically because of his accuracy. He just missed Brown twice and the deep balls to Clark and McLaurin were both on him as well. He also seems afraid to take risks, which is often a good trait in a QB, but he won't pull the trigger unless the guy is wide open. He used to be pretty good at throwing people open, but for some reason just won't do that right now.

He's still good at making reads and the offense does move (430 yards of offense, 23 first downs and 10/17 on 3rd down), but it is certainly not smooth.

Also it would be great if every late October game in Ohio was played with 75 and sunny conditions.

[RedTeamGo!]

I was able to go to the game Saturday and I had the exact same thought basically because of his accuracy. He just missed Brown twice and the deep balls to Clark and McLaurin were both on him as well. He also seems afraid to take risks, which is often a good trait in a QB, but he won't pull the trigger unless the guy is wide open. He used to be pretty good at throwing people open, but for some reason just won't do that right now.

He's still good at making reads and the offense does move (430 yards of offense, 23 first downs and 10/17 on 3rd down), but it is certainly not smooth.

Also it would be great if every late October game in Ohio was played with 75 and sunny conditions.

I cannot help but wonder what Saban would do if he were the coach of this OSU team. Would he continue to trot out a struggling QB that cannot throw the ball accurately downfield without question or would he take a look at Joe Burrow?

[bucksfan2]

I cannot help but wonder what Saban would do if he were the coach of this OSU team. Would he continue to trot out a struggling QB that cannot throw the ball accurately downfield without question or would he take a look at Joe Burrow?

I am curious, you have been beating this drum for a while now about Joe Burrow. I don't get the assumption that Burrow is anything more than a backup type QB. To be honest with Saben, he has had one QB the caliber of Barrett's in the past decade (McCarron) and the rest has been what you could call "game managers."

I would like to see Burrow get a shot but I have a feeling the the future OSU QB's will be
2017: Barrett
2018: Haskins
2019: Haskins
2020: Martel

I think Urban is coaching a little bit too conservative right now. Banking on his talent being able to beat the opponent. I don't see them opening it up against Nebraska, but hope the game is called similar to what the OU game was.

[BuckeyeRed27]

I cannot help but wonder what Saban would do if he were the coach of this OSU team. Would he continue to trot out a struggling QB that cannot throw the ball accurately downfield without question or would he take a look at Joe Burrow?

He would thank his lucky stars that he had a QB as good as JT Barrett and then tell Lane Kiffin to call better plays.

JT Barrett isn't struggling, he just isn't playing as well as he is capable of, and that is a big difference.

[GAC]

Anyone listen to 97.1 FM (Columbus)(Common Man and T-Bone)? I listen to them on my way home from work. Yesterday they were talking about the OSU-Northwestern game. They were really perplexed by Myer's post-game comments (attitude) that the Wildcats are a good team, and he's just happy we got the win. Maybe he was just trying to give his young squad a positive shot in the arm.

But over the last couple of games there have been those Buckeye fans (not all) - and I'm guilty - of basically making excuses for this team's play by elevating teams like PSU and Northwestern, and saying they're good teams. But are they really? It got me rethinking a bit. The Wildcats are 4-4 overall, 3-2 in the conference (5th place) .... and one of their losses is to a team from the Missouri Valley conference for cryin' out loud - Illinois State, who are terrible. They also lost to W, Michigan, who is a solid MAC team. And while I respect the MAC ... even a good MAC team is not going to beat, IMO, a good B1G team. And that's evident because they also beat a horrendous Illinois team.

And until PSU's upset, we're talking two UNRANKED opponents.

Penn State got thrashed by Michigan. Totally destroyed. And I look at their schedule, and the quality of their opponents, and I'm not impressed.

As Buckeye fans we all knew/acknowledged that this team would have some issues going into this season. Young being one of them. And everyone kept saying this team is maturing, getting better, with each game this season. That hasn't been so these last few weeks. And I put the finger on what I think is the real "culprit", and on both sides of the ball.... our play calling and schemes. I'm not impressed at all with Tim Beck or Greg Schiano.

The common man said yesterday.... if OSU plays like they have the last couple of weeks they will lose AT HOME vs Nebraska. And that would be a huge shame because Nebraska just ain't that good irregardless of their ranking. Again, look at their schedule and the quality of the opponents they've faced (other then Wisconsin). They barely got by a terrible Oregon team .... were losing to last place Illinois going into the 4th quarter until they opened it up... they faced a terrible Purdue team under the guidance of an interim coach (Hazell fired) and struggled against them until the 4th quarter.

It would be a shame if OSU loses at home vs Nebraska IMO. Just my take.

[bucksfan2]

@GAC. I put the loss to PSU directly on the coaches. The game was a 21-7 game and it took a blocked punt and a blocked FG for a TD for PSU to pull the upset. IIRC Michigan played PSU at home while OSU played PSU away and at night., two completely different games. IMO Urban coached scared against PSU, he coached not to lose the game instead of going for the jugular. I do think Beck and Warriner haven't been able to come up with a sustained successful game plan. We are talking about a guy who threw the ball deep against Alabama when running the ball into the line and running the clock was the "by the book move" now you have a coach who is coaching Tressel like.

I can't say much about NW, I didn't get to watch much of the game. On the feed the OSU announcers were talking about how impressed they were with Carr as well as the NW QB. NW put Carr in the slot, getting him into a matchup away from Lattimore and Connely. I don't think OSU played well and I do think at times Urban puts too much trust in his defense and calls a field position game. I wonder what is being said had OSU punched it in at the end of the game and won 31-20, would the story have been different? FWIW Urban mentioned that he thought NW was one of the most improved teams he has seen.

I would love to see the all 22 angles to see where the problem is in the passing game. Is it WR's not getting separation, is it Barrett missing passes, is it something else? What I don't want to see is an option run on 3rd and 6 when it has failed miserably already.

[traderumor]

Well, Penn St. just put up 62 points on the road. Purdue or not, they seem to be playing pretty well right now, and still Ohio St. had to hand them the game to beat us. Michigan killed them, they are legit, so why wouldn't they? We are probably not as good as Michigan this year, it pains me to say. Perhaps we can still beat them in The Game.

Northwestern played a nearly flawless game, one flukey turnover, and then the first noteworthy penalty (it may have been their only one) was the hold on their last drive.

Ohio St. is in a midseason slump, fans expectations are unrealistic, and hopefully Nebraska will be just the defense our offense needs to get well.

[RedTeamGo!]

I am curious, you have been beating this drum for a while now about Joe Burrow. I don't get the assumption that Burrow is anything more than a backup type QB. To be honest with Saben, he has had one QB the caliber of Barrett's in the past decade (McCarron) and the rest has been what you could call "game managers."

I would like to see Burrow get a shot but I have a feeling the the future OSU QB's will be
2017: Barrett
2018: Haskins
2019: Haskins
2020: Martel


I have watched Burrow a few times, as well his senior year high school state championship game and I think he has a really accurate arm. He actually is a lot more mobile than you would think as well.

Man, your 2017-2020 breakdown shows how well OSU has it at the QB position right now. I do think it will turn out differently, though.

2017 very well may be another JT season, he has certainly earned it.

2017: JT or Burrow/Haskins if JT leaves
2018: Burro/Haskins
2019: Emory Jones with Martell transferring to UCLA or Oregon.
2020: Emory Jones

The QB competitions in the years to come are going to be fascinating. OSU is going to have 3-4 QBs that could start just about anywhere in the country.

I think Emory Jones is the absolute "truth" as the kids say.

[Chip R]

tOSU will wear these uniforms this Saturday against Nebraska in tribute to the undefeated 1916 team. Call me skeptical but I don't think they wore jerseys that looked like that back in 1916.

11629

[RedTeamGo!]

tOSU will wear these uniforms this Saturday against Nebraska in tribute to the undefeated 1916 team. Call me skeptical but I don't think they wore jerseys that looked like that back in 1916.

11629

The matte is cool, but overall these are terrible

[BuckeyeRed27]

The matte is cool, but overall these are terrible

Wow I think these are awesome. Love the socks!

[puca]

tOSU will wear these uniforms this Saturday against Nebraska in tribute to the undefeated 1916 team. Call me skeptical but I don't think they wore jerseys that looked like that back in 1916.

11629

Helmets sure didn't.

[gonelong]

tOSU will wear these uniforms this Saturday against Nebraska in tribute to the undefeated 1916 team. Call me skeptical but I don't think they wore jerseys that looked like that back in 1916.

I can't tell the difference between these and the one's Chic Harley wore.

http://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-football/2016/06/71228/ohio-state-confirms-it-will-wear-alternate-uniforms-from-chic-harley-era-once-during-2016-season

[Assembly Hall]

I can't tell the difference between these and the one's Chic Harley wore.

http://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-football/2016/06/71228/ohio-state-confirms-it-will-wear-alternate-uniforms-from-chic-harley-era-once-during-2016-season

They look the same to me except for the Nike "swoosh"!!!!!!!!!! LOL

[traderumor]

The jerseys were wool?

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

[Chip R]

The jerseys were wool?

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

All the unis back then were wool. You know about the stories about the old time baseball players who had to wear wool unis in the summer heat of Cincinnati or St. Louis.

[GAC]

Ohio St. had to hand them the game to beat us.

I don't believe we handed PSU anything. They manhandled our offensive line all night, like a kitten in the mouth of a rottweiler.


Michigan killed them, they are legit, so why wouldn't they?

So are you saying that OSU isn't legit? I'm certainly not going to that level. I agree with bucksfan that it's our coaching staff, and from an offensive standpoint, this is not the same team we watched earlier in the season that was far more aggressive, attacked their opponent, but is coaching scared, playing not to lose (way too conservative).


We are probably not as good as Michigan this year, it pains me to say. Perhaps we can still beat them in The Game.

Michigan is legit; but there were some question marks raised this last weekend vs Michigan State. Some may say "Yeah, but this is a rivalry, and it was in East Lansing" ... true, but I'm not totally sold on this line because this is simply a bad, bad MSU team on both sides of the ball. The only home game they have won all year was their opener vs Furman. We're talking 0-5 in the conference, 2-6 overall (tied with Rutgers) ... and from a statistical standpoint they're right there in the cellar with Rutgers and Illinois. They're that bad.

Yet MSU was able to put almost 400 yards of total offense up (217 yards rushing). That buoys my optimism when the Wolverines visit Columbus here in a few weeks. All bets are off when it comes to "The Game".

[bucksfan2]

I don't believe we handed PSU anything. They manhandled our offensive line all night, like a kitten in the mouth of a rottweiler.



So are you saying that OSU isn't legit? I'm certainly not going to that level. I agree with bucksfan that it's our coaching staff, and from an offensive standpoint, this is not the same team we watched earlier in the season that was far more aggressive, attacked their opponent, but is coaching scared, playing not to lose (way too conservative).



Michigan is legit; but there were some question marks raised this last weekend vs Michigan State. Some may say "Yeah, but this is a rivalry, and it was in East Lansing" ... true, but I'm not totally sold on this line because this is simply a bad, bad MSU team on both sides of the ball. The only home game they have won all year was their opener vs Furman. We're talking 0-5 in the conference, 2-6 overall (tied with Rutgers) ... and from a statistical standpoint they're right there in the cellar with Rutgers and Illinois. They're that bad.

Yet MSU was able to put almost 400 yards of total offense up (217 yards rushing). That buoys my optimism when the Wolverines visit Columbus here in a few weeks. All bets are off when it comes to "The Game".

Michigan's schedule has been pretty underwhelming. One thing to note, not using it as an excuse, just a note. The real common two opponents PSU and Wisconsin, Michigan got at home, during the day, with the opponents coming off a game the prior weekend. OSU got PSU and Wisconsin both on the road, at night, and both coming off a bye. There is a big difference in those two games if you ask me.

I don't mean to knock Michigan down a peg, I think they are a good team, I just don't think they are the super team most people are making them out to be. I think the schedule set up nicely for Michigan this season, I think it has been light so far, I think what was once looked at as two difficult road games are a little easier considering MSU and Iowa took a pretty big step back this season. Michigan looks good right now, but their best victory right now is at home over Wisconsin.

[traderumor]

I don't believe we handed PSU anything. They manhandled our offensive line all night, like a kitten in the mouth of a rottweiler.



So are you saying that OSU isn't legit? I'm certainly not going to that level. I agree with bucksfan that it's our coaching staff, and from an offensive standpoint, this is not the same team we watched earlier in the season that was far more aggressive, attacked their opponent, but is coaching scared, playing not to lose (way too conservative).



Michigan is legit; but there were some question marks raised this last weekend vs Michigan State. Some may say "Yeah, but this is a rivalry, and it was in East Lansing" ... true, but I'm not totally sold on this line because this is simply a bad, bad MSU team on both sides of the ball. The only home game they have won all year was their opener vs Furman. We're talking 0-5 in the conference, 2-6 overall (tied with Rutgers) ... and from a statistical standpoint they're right there in the cellar with Rutgers and Illinois. They're that bad.

Yet MSU was able to put almost 400 yards of total offense up (217 yards rushing). That buoys my optimism when the Wolverines visit Columbus here in a few weeks. All bets are off when it comes to "The Game".
I dont know who OSU is at this point. They did hand PSU the game with a blocked punt and FG. They win ugly but for that.

[GAC]

Michigan's schedule has been pretty underwhelming. One thing to note, not using it as an excuse, just a note. The real common two opponents PSU and Wisconsin, Michigan got at home, during the day, with the opponents coming off a game the prior weekend. OSU got PSU and Wisconsin both on the road, at night, and both coming off a bye. There is a big difference in those two games if you ask me.

I agree. Playing NIGHT games (which for some reason Urban likes... got another one this Saturday vs Nebraska) and in places like Camp Randall and Happy Valley aren't good settings for any opponent. Could the outcome have been different if Michigan had to travel to Wisconsin? Maybe so. IMO, the Badgers had chances to take the lead, win that game, in Michigan but kept shooting themselves in the foot.

But my point simply is that irregardless of the where the game is played the superior program (talent) should still win, whether it's Northwestern or Penn State, who were 21.5 and 19.5 point underdogs. Sure, they may put up a fight/contest because teams like OSU, Michigan, Alabama, etc. have a target on their backs, but again, you shouldn't lose those games in the end. The Northwestern game was especially troubling to me because we were at home in Columbus, and I simply don't think the Wildcats are that good a football team overall.

But we'll find out tomorrow as they host the Badgers (LOL).

But OSU has to play a lot better then they have been to win tomorrow night vs Nebraska. Just my opinion, they're not a bad team, have definitely improved since the days of Bo Pelini, but I see them as a "fake" top ten ranked team looking at their schedule and the quality of opponents they've faced. They've "escaped" against some definitely inferior (bad) opponents.

Ohio State, at home, should beat this team, who are now 17 point underdog to the Bucks, IMO.

[Assembly Hall]

But OSU has to play a lot better then they have been to win tomorrow night vs Nebraska. Just my opinion, they're not a bad team, have definitely improved since the days of Bo Pelini, but I see them as a "fake" top ten ranked team looking at their schedule and the quality of opponents they've faced. They've "escaped" against some definitely inferior (bad) opponents.


They also beat Wyoming black and blue. They did escape in Bloomington, the Hoosiers gave them that game. I look at their performance against the Boilers as a trap game. But they followed it with a good showing in Madison.

[GAC]

They also beat Wyoming black and blue.

True. But I'm not that high on the Mountain West. You've got one team that consistently cracks the top 25 (Boise State), while only 4 teams from the entire conference have an overall record above .500. And Wyoming also lost to a pretty mediocre MAC team (E. Michigan).


They did escape in Bloomington, the Hoosiers gave them that game.

I actually feel sorry for the Hoosiers. You take a look at their games - and I've watched some - They've played some solid, close games this year, but keep coming up short, find ways to lose it, in the end. The final score of the game vs OSU doesn't tell the whole story IMO. They gave the Bucks a helluva a fight, but the miscues (2nd quarter) cost them. Same thing when they played Wake Forest.



I look at their performance against the Boilers as a trap game.

But they did the same against a really bad Illinois team too. I just look at this Nebraska team, and their schedule, and they've won, but have been escaping by the hair of their chinny chin chin (LOL). Of course the same can be said of OSU in their last few games. But when I look at it from a perspective of overall talent, it definitely goes to OSU.

You've obviously got two teams in Nebraska and OSU where the key to their overall success is heavily on the shoulders of two similar style QBs (Barrett, Armstrong). From a statistical standpoint, the edge goes to Barrett. What's interesting to note on Armstrong is that his QBR jumps in the 4th quarter.... while the Buck's defense has allowed an FBS low 53 yds/game in the 4th quarter.

I just look at the game tonight in Columbus and I'm saying "Dammit OSU! Play to your potential, quit being so conservative. Get your talent more involved offensively, not put so much on Barrett, and there's no reason, IMO, they shouldn't handily beat this Nebraska team."

It's definitely an elimination game for both. A lot at stake here.

[WVRed]

Just read this about the game tonight:

http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/ohio-state-nebraska-sam-foltz-tribute-helmet-plaque-110516

I'm a UK fan, but after the idiots from Alabama today it's good to see class from programs in college football. Classy move.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GAC]

We're bacccck! LOL Wow! What a thrashing of Nebraska. I've got a co-worker from Nebraska who, all week, kept flaunting their Cornhusker T-shirt that said "Fear the Ear!". I think we know where that corn cob ended up (LOL)

590 yards of total offense vs 204. Passing... Barrett 290 (4 TDs), Armstrong 74 (0 TDs, 1 INT)

Just simply total domination (annihilation is more like it)... and I did not expect that.

[Assembly Hall]

That was one helluva an arsz beating the Bucks put on the Huskers. Michigan awaits!!!

[Hillsdale87]

These WRs are wasted with Barrett. He's not even close on a lot of these passes


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[The Operator]

Fake punt? Was that on purpose?

[19braves77]

Yep, seen this Urban Meyer. No answers.

[Hillsdale87]

There are no answers because Barrett is so inaccurate. Michigan is too good to be one dimensional.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Roy Tucker]

Barrett just isn't accurate.

Put your mouth guard in dummy. Get your head in the game.

[19braves77]

N/M

[The Operator]

Well they pulled it out.

Sloppy, but a win over Michigan is always a great win!

[Assembly Hall]

Well they pulled it out.

Sloppy, but a win over Michigan is always a great win!

Damn lucky IMHO. But they are set up nicely.

[RedTeamGo!]

Yep, seen this Urban Meyer. No answers.

You were saying?

[Sea Ray]

Fake punt? Was that on purpose?

In reading Urban's body language, I don't think he called that fake punt

[GAC]

Helluva a game. I don't know how OSU pulled this one out .... the terrible way their offense was playing, Wolverines controlling the line-of-scrimmage (OL Isaiah Prince was simply terrible all day), Barrett missing wide-open receivers consistently, missed FGs.

But three Wolverine turnovers kept the Bucks within striking distance, and they found a way and totally dominated the 4th quarter.

But I kept complaining most of the game - where the hell is Curtis Samuel? He touched the ball five times in the first half. No excuse for that IMO. Too talented.

I was amazed that Speight started. The kid did a heck of a job too - short passes, under coverage, never really threw the ball down field (maybe he couldn't, don't know).

But if OSU makes FGs, this game would have never went into O.T.

Were there some questionable calls in that game? Yep. Both ways too. There are questionable calls in practically every game. But Jim Harbaugh is one of the biggest whiny A*** I've ever seen. Helluva a coach, but a jack***

I thought J.T. got that 1st down O.T., but upon review I admit I wasn't sure. But they reviewed it, and the video evidence wasn't conclusive to over-turn the call on the field. That's how it's suppose to go. But QUESTION - why don't they use the chains anymore to come out and measure? Maybe they feel reviewing the video footage is more accurate?

But the bottom-line is - even if that was a missed call, it's not the refs fault that the Wolverine defense faltered and allowed Samuel's to score the winning TD.

Now it's going to be interesting to see ... gonna have to wait another week, and after the championship games ... to see if OSU gets in.

[*BaseClogger*]

The chains probably weren't used in this instance because overtime places the ball on the 25 yard-line to start possession so the line to reach is very clear. In other cases I agree that it seems chain measurements are disappearing...

[RedTeamGo!]

I have a screenshot on my phone but Redszone is saying I have reached my quota or something when I try to post it. Barrett clearly got the first down.

[puca]

Ohio State continues to look uncomfortable offensively. Was Herman that good of a offensive coordinator? I think the answer is probably yes.

Any solid defensive team is going to give Ohio State trouble. Their formations and motion pretty much give away what play is being run and which side of the field that needs defending and their O-Line is not good enough to win the line of scrimmage. From what I can tell they use very little misdirection.

Barrett continues to look like a shell of the quarterback I remember. I have to believe he is either hiding an injury or cannot throw a ball in cold weather. Defenses are daring them to throw down the field and Ohio State is obliging.

I'm not sure they are one of the top 4 teams in the country, but I have a hard time coming up with 3 better. If Penn State wins the B1G championship though I think the committee will have a hard time putting Ohio State in over them, and I don't see 2 B1G teams in the mix unless Clemson or Washington trip up.

[Sea Ray]

I'm in Detroit this weekend and the talk is all about the officiating. In particular a key PI call on UM that gave OSU a key first down in the waning minutes of the game and a PI call against OSU that wasn't called earlier. Then there was the unsportsmanlike called on Harbaugh. The official told Harbaugh that such behavior is a penalty (technical) in basketball. Harbaugh reminded him that he wasn't officiating a BB game. I think all of these points are quite valid. OSU got Pitt Steeler-like home cooking yesterday.

[RedTeamGo!]

I'm in Detroit this weekend and the talk is all about the officiating. In particular a key PI call on UM that gave OSU a key first down in the waning minutes of the game and a PI call against OSU that wasn't called earlier. Then there was the unsportsmanlike called on Harbaugh. The official told Harbaugh that such behavior is a penalty (technical) in basketball. Harbaugh reminded him that he wasn't officiating a BB game. I think all of these points are quite valid. OSU got Pitt Steeler-like home cooking yesterday.

I really don't get the whining about that PI call. It was blatant PI, they should be upset with the player for doing it when it wasn't necessary. The OSU player could have touched the ball if he wasn't tackled by the defender. I really don't get this one.

Harbaugh was complaining to the refs all game and then had a temper tantrum. Control yourself, it won't happen.

[jimbo]

I'm in Detroit this weekend and the talk is all about the officiating. In particular a key PI call on UM that gave OSU a key first down in the waning minutes of the game and a PI call against OSU that wasn't called earlier. Then there was the unsportsmanlike called on Harbaugh. The official told Harbaugh that such behavior is a penalty (technical) in basketball. Harbaugh reminded him that he wasn't officiating a BB game. I think all of these points are quite valid. OSU got Pitt Steeler-like home cooking yesterday.

I don't remember thinking, during any of the calls in question, that the Buckeyes got away with one or that we got lucky on a call. The only one I think they may have a legitimate argument with would be the unsportsmanlike conduct penalty, but that may have been the result of a culmination of incidents leading up to it, with Harbaugh acting like an idiot every time things didn't go his way and wanting to blame everything but him or his team. Everybody outside of Ann Arbor thinks the first down call was correct. The officiating didn't cost Michigan the game. They had plenty of chances with the Buckeyes gifting them two missed field goals and an offense that couldn't get past the 50 yard line for three quarters. Harbaugh is a great coach, too bad he can't add a little class along with his talent as a coach. Talk about a sore loser.

[Hillsdale87]

This is the best angle. Clearly a 1st down. All the whining after the game was pretty pathetic. I know as an OSU fan I'm supposed to hate Harbaugh, but I generally like him, and he's definitely an incredible coach. But his press conference after the game was embarrassing. Outside of a blatant missed PI in the 1st quarter, there were no calls that seemed atrocious. Yes, the pass to Curtis Samuel was high, but I think he could have gotten his hands on it, and there was definitely contact. The non-call in OT probably should have been made, but CBs hook WRs all the time without a call being made. He brought that unsportsmanlike penalty on himself because he was still losing his mind about the face mask penalty that negated a 1st down, even though it was clearly a face mask. It wasn't a dead ball foul, so the refs were correct to take away the 1st down. Then it was exacerbated by Speight throwing an INT. And even if he wants to complain about that, it ended up being only a 4 yard penalty because of where OSU was on the field. 11707

[The Operator]

Does anybody know the full story of why Jabrill Peppers shoved an OSU fan yesterday? I've seen a few articles but none of them have anything other than speculation about why it happened.

Either way, what a punk.

[RiverRat13]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqifCqWWaAk

[GAC]

I'm in Detroit this weekend and the talk is all about the officiating. In particular a key PI call on UM that gave OSU a key first down in the waning minutes of the game and a PI call against OSU that wasn't called earlier. Then there was the unsportsmanlike called on Harbaugh. The official told Harbaugh that such behavior is a penalty (technical) in basketball. Harbaugh reminded him that he wasn't officiating a BB game. I think all of these points are quite valid. OSU got Pitt Steeler-like home cooking yesterday.

I disagree. Those are B1G officials who are rotated around the league. Were there missed calls? Yep. Both sides. Harbaugh complains ANYTIME there is a flag thrown on his team. That guy is in those ref's ears screaming constantly all year. He's an idiot.

The unsportsmanlike conduct penalty? He's not the first, nor will he be the last, college football coach to have that flag thrown when they throw a temper tantrum on the sideline (throwing headsets, clip boards, etc). Urban got one in the Wisconsin game. Refs understand, and accept, to a certain degree, that coaches are going to give them a hard time during the game in various situations. But Harbaugh takes it to another level. I, personally, think they finally got fed up with his abuse and intimidation during the game, and finally put the hammer down on him. He opened the door, and they answered it.

But the questionable officiating isn't what cost them the game.

Until approximately halfway through the 3rd quarter Michigan, especially their defense (line of scrimmage) simply dominated OSU's offense (shut'em down). But their own miscues (three turnovers - two INTs led to 14 OSU points ... Speight fumble on the OSU 1 yd line) kept OSU in this game.

And OSU came alive in the latter half of the 3rd quarter, and the entire 4th. The went to a three receiver set, and had either Weber or Samuel in the slot, and Michigan couldn't (or didn't) adjust to it well. And Barrett, who was missing open receivers all day, started hitting them. And when that happened, that really started to open things up for OSU as far as the running game (Barrett option). They were moving the ball.

The "questionable" first down call in O.T.? ...... First off, Harbaugh, or anyone on either sideline, wasn't in any position on that play to conclusively see/know whether he got it or not. The officiating upstairs did the right thing and reviewed that first down call. There was not conclusive evidence to over turn the call on the field, and that's the rule. And I while I thought he had it, I admit I wasn't sure. But since the game I've watched some slow-motion/stop footage of that play, and he got it. Again, there certainly wasn't any evidence to show he didn't, or to overturn the call on the field.

But it wasn't the ref's officiating, but Michigan's defense, that then allowed the TD run by Samuel. They simply couldn't stop OSU's offense at this stage(s) of the game. They let OSU back in that game, to tie it and send it to O.T., and to take the lead.

And if OSU's FG kicker - who was 14/14 at that range all year - could've hit those FGs, then there wouldn't have even been any O.T. So there were miscues on both sides throughout that game.

And Michigan needs to be thankful there wasn't a little more time on that clock at the end of the 4th when OSU kicked that tying FG. Because if there was, IMO, OSU would have scored a TD (game over). Michigan just couldn't stop OSU at that stage of the game.

Harbaugh is a great coach.... but he's an A-hole who needs to grow up. It's not about him. His press conference rant isn't going to endear him to any officiating crew. But if he wants that reputation, then so be it, but he'll pay for it too.

But when I return to work today I'll be getting an earful of whining from the Michigan fans I know (LOL).

[Assembly Hall]

Aside from all the "controversy" dealing with penalties and the first down call, I thought Michigan got complacent. Seemed to me they started playing "not to lose" as opposed "to win".

[Sea Ray]

As a neutral guy, I think Harbaugh has a good argument on the PI calls. His guy was grabbed and spun with no call while the other one was uncatchable. In fact it was so uncatchable that it's hard to say whether the contact happened before or after the ball.

Whenever there are controversial calls, the mantra is always "but they had their chances..." There are always "chances". If OSU hadn't missed their FGs...and if UM hadn't turned the ball over...That plays on both sides and always does in close games.

[Redsfaithful]

The OSU PI wasn't uncatchable to me - the first angle looked that way, later there was another angle where it showed the ball was a lot closer to the receiver than I had thought initially.

[Sea Ray]

The OSU PI wasn't uncatchable to me - the first angle looked that way, later there was another angle where it showed the ball was a lot closer to the receiver than I had thought initially.

Then you disagree with Redteamgo. It was totally unnecessary contact. No way the ball was going to be caught.

[bucksfan2]

In regards to the first down call, all the ball has to do is touch the 15 yard line. The ball is "true" spotted at the 25, there is no need to measure because the officials know the "true" line to gain, and it is a solid line. I thought he got the first down, thought it would have been impossible to overturn, and am laughing at all the Michigan whining.

I think Harbaugh is a top tier coach, but a bit of an a** clown. IMO he got a personal foul for throwing his call sheet on the field, I think that was the final straw for the officials. It ended up being a 4 yard penalty so I don't see Harbaugh's beef with the call that much. I do have a problem with him questioning the officials. What he has done is give his players, other coaches, and fans the ammo to blame the officials. You hardly ever hear a coach blaming the officials, and when you do its not hammered to the extent that Harbaugh did.

Barrett did struggle, after watching this entire season, I think the lack of experience at the WR position has really hurt and I don't think Beck and Warriner are consistently good play callers. Prince has struggled at RT, but that was to be expected. I do think JT has made some poor decisions with throws, but also hasn't been helped by his WR's.

Its kinda fun watching good defensive teams go at it. For my money, Malik Hooker is a much better defender than Peppers. I thought Peppers at times looked slow (couldn't chase down Barrett) and was out of position, see the overrun on the Samuel TD. I was really impressed with Michigan's front 4, they gave OSU all they could handle for most of the game.

The game came down to mistakes, two missed FG's for OSU, and two killer INT's and one fumble by Michigan. I thought Harbaugh in the second half got a little two passive and allowed OSU to start dominating on both sides of the ball. I did love seeing Barrett running away from Peppers for a long run.

Kudos to JT, he had a tough year, but has made more big plays in his career than most Buckeye QB's could even dream of.

[bucksfan2]

Then you disagree with Redteamgo. It was totally unnecessary contact. No way the ball was going to be caught.

If you can get your hands on the ball, it has to be deemed catchable. The contact was unnecessary, but it doesn't take away from the fact it was a penalty.

[Sea Ray]

If you can get your hands on the ball, it has to be deemed catchable. The contact was unnecessary, but it doesn't take away from the fact it was a penalty.

I could be wrong but I thought the rule was "uncatchable".

[bucksfan2]

I could be wrong but I thought the rule was "uncatchable".

If you get your hands on the ball, doesn't that make the pass "catchable?"

[BuckeyeRed27]

I went to the game and that was just an amazing experience. I've been to several big games in the Shoe (Michigan 02 and 06, Texas, USC) and that was the loudest and most intense it has ever been. I'm still thinking about it, but I think it's the best sporting event I've ever been to. I hope I don't have many calls at work today because I'm just getting my voice back.

It was really disappointing that Harbaugh had to got on a 10 minute rant about officiating and not just tip his cap to the other team over an amazing game.

[BuckeyeRed27]

I could be wrong but I thought the rule was "uncatchable".

The Samuel call would have in no way been uncatchable by rule. That rule is there if the QB throws it out of bounds or the WR breaks the wrong way and the ball lands 20 yards away from him. If it is in the area like that ball was it will always be called and that was the right call for sure.

[Sea Ray]

If you get your hands on the ball, doesn't that make the pass "catchable?"

Not necessarily. I don't think there's any way that ball was catchable. If you disagree then that's where our disagreement lies.

[bucksfan2]

Not necessarily. I don't think there's any way that ball was catchable. If you disagree then that's where our disagreement lies.

What aren't you getting. In order for a ball to be deemed "uncatchable" it has to be absolutely uncatchable beyond any dispute. If a WR can get his hands on a ball, whether or not you think he could come down with the ball, then it is a catchable ball. If the ball sailed 10 feet over his head, you would have an argument, but not a ball that the WR in question was actually able to touch.

You could say that Samuel couldn't have caught the ball, which I would agree, it would have been a miraculous catch, but that doesn't make the ball "uncatchable" by the definition in the rule book.

[Hillsdale87]

Not necessarily. I don't think there's any way that ball was catchable. If you disagree then that's where our disagreement lies.

I think there's very little chance he would have caught the ball. In real time I thought it was way overthrown, but the replay showed that it was a lot closer. If he had not been interfered with, he would have at least gotten one hand on the ball. That's going to get called every time.

[Hillsdale87]

Barrett did struggle, after watching this entire season, I think the lack of experience at the WR position has really hurt and I don't think Beck and Warriner are consistently good play callers. Prince has struggled at RT, but that was to be expected. I do think JT has made some poor decisions with throws, but also hasn't been helped by his WR's.


It's pretty obvious that Beck and Warriner are not consistently great play callers, but I also question their ability to design plays. OSU is a quick strike passing offense, and Barrett should be hitting his first read a lot of the time, and doing so quickly. But with all of the talent, somehow he ends up pulling off that first read a majority of the time. They don't manufacture openings in the defense. Not to take anything away from Michigan's good receivers, but there is no question that there is more speed and talent at WR on OSU, and yet Michigan's scheme was getting guys open much more easily than OSU's.

[*BaseClogger*]

It's pretty obvious that Beck and Warriner are not consistently great play callers, but I also question their ability to design plays. OSU is a quick strike passing offense, and Barrett should be hitting his first read a lot of the time, and doing so quickly. But with all of the talent, somehow he ends up pulling off that first read a majority of the time. They don't manufacture openings in the defense. Not to take anything away from Michigan's good receivers, but there is no question that there is more speed and talent at WR on OSU, and yet Michigan's scheme was getting guys open much more easily than OSU's.

I found that frustrating too. Quick screen passes to the outside used to be a major part of the OSU playbook but we never see that anymore. The only explanations I can think of is that either Barrett simply isn't pulling the trigger, or Michigan's aggressive man coverages were taking those plays away. But we haven't seen many of those passes all season...

[Chip R]

It was really disappointing that Harbaugh had to got on a 10 minute rant about officiating and not just tip his cap to the other team over an amazing game.

If the situation were reversed, would you be disappointed if Urban went on a 10 minute rant and didn't tip his cap to Michigan?

[Slyder]

Anyone else find it kind of humorous that Ohio State and media are trying to twist themselves into pretzels when the same case that is staring them in the face is why and how they got in two years ago?

[gonelong]

The Game - 2016 - 16.65 million total viewers to ABC, making it the most-watched regular season game with a noon ET kickoff on record. Highest total viewership in 2016 season.
The Game - 2006 - 2+ million total viewers to ABC, making it the most-watched regular season game ever (3:30 ET kickoff). [/quote]

The Spot - Why no camera pointing directly down the 15 yard line or at least overhead? They had a timeout to get there.

Now we wait.

GL

[Sea Ray]

What aren't you getting. In order for a ball to be deemed "uncatchable" it has to be absolutely uncatchable beyond any dispute. If a WR can get his hands on a ball, whether or not you think he could come down with the ball, then it is a catchable ball. If the ball sailed 10 feet over his head, you would have an argument, but not a ball that the WR in question was actually able to touch.

You could say that Samuel couldn't have caught the ball, which I would agree, it would have been a miraculous catch, but that doesn't make the ball "uncatchable" by the definition in the rule book.

This is where we disagree: I don't think it was possible for him to make a miraculous catch. I don't think he had any chance to catch it. I also don't think it's clear that the contact came "early".

[kaldaniels]

Something bothers me about this pic that is being circulated. The yellow line is not parallel to the yard markers. While I believe he got the first down this pic doesn't convince me...something's up with the perspective. Feel free to convince me otherwise but I can't get past the different angles of the lines.



This is the best angle. Clearly a 1st down. All the whining after the game was pretty pathetic. I know as an OSU fan I'm supposed to hate Harbaugh, but I generally like him, and he's definitely an incredible coach. But his press conference after the game was embarrassing. Outside of a blatant missed PI in the 1st quarter, there were no calls that seemed atrocious. Yes, the pass to Curtis Samuel was high, but I think he could have gotten his hands on it, and there was definitely contact. The non-call in OT probably should have been made, but CBs hook WRs all the time without a call being made. He brought that unsportsmanlike penalty on himself because he was still losing his mind about the face mask penalty that negated a 1st down, even though it was clearly a face mask. It wasn't a dead ball foul, so the refs were correct to take away the 1st down. Then it was exacerbated by Speight throwing an INT. And even if he wants to complain about that, it ended up being only a 4 yard penalty because of where OSU was on the field. 11707

[kaldaniels]

Something bothers me about this pic that is being circulated. The yellow line is not parallel to the yard markers. While I believe he got the first down this pic doesn't convince me...something's up with the perspective. Feel free to convince me otherwise but I can't get past the different angles of the lines.

The more I view it I'm not so sure. It might be like one of those optical illusions where the two lines don't appear parallel but in reality they are.

[gonelong]

Anyone else find it kind of humorous that Ohio State and media are trying to twist themselves into pretzels when the same case that is staring them in the face is why and how they got in two years ago?

tOSU didn't get in because they won 2 years ago. They got in because they thoroughly dominated a good team.

I believe if PSU wins convincingly, they are in. I think tOSU gets in if Wisconsin wins, Wash loses, or Clemson loses. (I'd love to see FLA, Wisconsin, Colorado, and VaTech all win. )

tOSU got PSU on the road with PSU coming off a bye so they had 2 weeks to prepare. tOSU came into that game following a road game to WISC who also was coming off a bye and had two weeks to prepare. tOSU (at that time, IMO) was a better team than PSU, but they lost the game. Fast forward a few weeks and PSU is on fire and I am not so sure that its the case anymore.

GL

[gonelong]

The more I view it I'm not so sure. It might be like one of those optical illusions where the two lines don't appear parallel but in reality they are.

I haven't seen a down the line shot form anyone, so the perspective will be off to some degree. Since this is from above and behind it gives a favorable perspective if you are hoping to demonstrate he made the line. Conversely, any pics I have seen from Michigan sites tend to show the end zone perspective or clearly are not showing the full extent of forward progress. JTB got the ball right to edge of the Scarlet of the Jersey of the blocker. In a second shot it is clear (to me) that this would be across the line to gain. If they could synch up all the available camera angles I firmly believe they would show he made the line.

In overtime, I am not sure why they don't have camera's on both sides of the field aligned with the goal line and the first down line from both sides of the field.

GL

[BuckeyeRed27]

If the situation were reversed, would you be disappointed if Urban went on a 10 minute rant and didn't tip his cap to Michigan?

Yes. There were no blatant missed calls. There were some judgment calls that that didn't go Michigan's way. It is not why they lost the game and I would not have liked Urban to make any more comment beyond what I just said. You can certainly acknowledge the fact that a few calls didn't go your way. Going on a 10 minute rant is disrespectful to the other team and the rivalry.

[BuckeyeRed27]

This is where we disagree: I don't think it was possible for him to make a miraculous catch. I don't think he had any chance to catch it. I also don't think it's clear that the contact came "early".

That is not how the uncatchable interpretation is to be applied. If you don't understand that there is nothing else to discuss.

[traderumor]

Not necessarily. I don't think there's any way that ball was catchable. If you disagree then that's where our disagreement lies.

I think you might be confusing the NFL "uncatchable" definition with the college game, which is what I assume BuckeyeRed is using for his conclusion.

[Sea Ray]

tOSU didn't get in because they won 2 years ago. They got in because they thoroughly dominated a good team.

I believe if PSU wins convincingly, they are in. I think tOSU gets in if Wisconsin wins, Wash loses, or Clemson loses. (I'd love to see FLA, Wisconsin, Colorado, and VaTech all win. )

tOSU got PSU on the road with PSU coming off a bye so they had 2 weeks to prepare. tOSU came into that game following a road game to WISC who also was coming off a bye and had two weeks to prepare. tOSU (at that time, IMO) was a better team than PSU, but they lost the game. Fast forward a few weeks and PSU is on fire and I am not so sure that its the case anymore.

GL

I think if PSU wins, they're in as well as OSU. If Wisconsin wins, they're likely in too. I think 2 of the 4 teams will be from the Big Ten. There may be a lot of whining from Clemson or Washington. Save this post...

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I think you might be confusing the NFL "uncatchable" definition with the college game, which is what I assume BuckeyeRed is using for his conclusion.

How do they differ?

[Redsfaithful]

Anyone else find it kind of humorous that Ohio State and media are trying to twist themselves into pretzels when the same case that is staring them in the face is why and how they got in two years ago?

If Penn State beats Wisconsin 59-0 then we might have a somewhat parallel situation.

[BuckeyeRed27]

If Penn State beats Wisconsin 59-0 then we might have a somewhat parallel situation.

Yeah that's actually the only situation that scares me a little bit is if Washington, Clemson and Penn St all win by 4 or 5 TDs. I still think OSU is safe, but I would be nervous.

[GAC]

Then you disagree with Redteamgo. It was totally unnecessary contact. No way the ball was going to be caught.

Not so sure on that particular play.... but there were a lot of balls thrown by J.T. that were un-catchable! (LOL)

[GAC]

Who are locks for the CFP? Here's what CBSSports says.... http://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/college-football-playoff-scenarios-seven-teams-alive-alabama-ohio-state-are-locks/


1. Alabama: A lock for the playoff. A lock for the overall No. 1 seed.

2. Clemson: If the Tigers win the ACC Championship Game, I believe the CFP Selection Committee will jump them over Ohio State in a battle for uniform color in the semifinal.

3. Ohio State: A lock for the playoff. Will be one spot higher if Clemson loses -- and maybe even if Clemson wins.

4. Washington: The Huskies have to beat Colorado in the Pac-12 Championship Game to make the playoff. I don't think the committee will leave them out for a team with a worse record. They have not ranked Washington behind a two-loss team so far. No reason to think they will start now.

But what if Clemson or Washington loses?

5/6. Michigan/Big Ten champion: It will be interesting to see what the committee does with Michigan, which lost at Ohio State in double overtime Saturday, especially in comparison with other Big Ten teams. I think you could reasonably argue that Michigan should be no worse than fifth overall and higher rated than the eventual Big Ten champion, Penn State or Wisconsin. The Wolverines will have one less win and the same number of losses as that team, will have played and beaten both teams, plus Colorado, which may be the Pac-12 champion in this scenario.

I think Michigan will have the better playoff résumé. Because the records of the teams are pretty similar, though, the committee may opt for the Big Ten champion instead. If the committee puts Michigan behind Wisconsin and Penn State this week, it is done as a playoff contender.

[Todd Gack]

tOSU didn't get in because they won 2 years ago. They got in because they thoroughly dominated a good team.


Did their lone loss to a 6-LOSS TEAM AT HOME hold the same amount of value?

No one can still explain how TCU dropped from 3rd to 6th in the final poll let alone not make the playoff altogether. The biggest and rather only argument was that they didn't play in a conference championship game.

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If Penn State beats Wisconsin 59-0 then we might have a somewhat parallel situation.

But they didn't play in conference championship. It doesn't matter.

[*BaseClogger*]

No one can still explain how TCU dropped from 3rd to 6th in the final poll let alone not make the playoff altogether. The biggest and rather only argument was that they didn't play in a conference championship game.

Out of all the nonsensical ranting you have done in this thread, this was the only thing that completely didn't make sense in 2014--why did TCU drop below Baylor in the final poll after beating Iowa State 55-3 and Baylor defeating Kansas State 38-27? The CFP poll doesn't seem to make any sense until the final edition is released in December...

[bucksfan2]

Did their lone loss to a 6-LOSS TEAM AT HOME hold the same amount of value?

No one can still explain how TCU dropped from 3rd to 6th in the final poll let alone not make the playoff altogether. The biggest and rather only argument was that they didn't play in a conference championship game.

- - - Updated - - -



But they didn't play in conference championship. It doesn't matter.

In reference to the Conference Championships, I view it like this, and maybe the committee does as well. For the ACC, B1G, SEC and Pac12, its an extra game. Its an extra game at times that can help improve your resume. The Big 12 not only doesn't play a championship game, but they only have 12 games.

Two things that I think helped OSU that year:
1) A 12th win that TCU and Baylor didn't have
2) Relevancy bias, they trounced a good Wisconsin team the night before the committee made their decision. TCU and Baylor were off and had no last audition.
Bonus #3) OSU vs TCU/Baylor, who draws more eyeballs?

I don't think OSU has any problem this season. Their resume is as good as any other team in the nation, they are not playing in the title game, but The Game will still be resonating come Sunday.

[*BaseClogger*]

2) Relevancy bias, they trounced a good Wisconsin team the night before the committee made their decision. TCU and Baylor were off and had no last audition.

They weren't off. As I stated in my previous post, TCU and Baylor played Iowa State and Kansas State, respectively...

[Chip R]

I don't think OSU has any problem this season. Their resume is as good as any other team in the nation, they are not playing in the title game, but The Game will still be resonating come Sunday.

I wouldn't be so confident if I were you. Alabama is in for sure. Probably Clemson and Washington. tOSU is the leader in the clubhouse amongst the other teams and their case is stronger if Wisconsin beats PSU. But if the reverse happens, it would be difficult to not take the champion of what is supposed to be the best conference in college football. Especially since PSU has a win over tOSU. I suppose it comes down to if they want to reward the conference champion or put the team in that would give Alabama the best game. There may be people on that committee that believe in the former and some that believe tin the latter. Of course if Clemson and/or Washington lose, the B1G may get two teams in.

[kaldaniels]

If I remember correct, Baylor's head-to-head win was what put them over TCU. Now while it can be argued that the committee should have done so all along that year, I think they did their weekly ranking with the belief that TCU was the better team...but when all was said and done and you have 2 teams with similar resumes you have to defer to the HTH matchup. Remember, neither of those teams played anyone tough OOC and they finished with identical records in the round-robin Big 12. So who gets in? The HTH winner, or the team with the best loss (Baylor lost to WVU)? I blame the silliness/lack of getting with the times of the Big 12 for neither of those teams getting in.

This is from the beginning of the 2014 season. The ineptness hits you about 3 seconds in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DreXQ-w52Y

[kaldaniels]

I wouldn't be so confident if I were you. Alabama is in for sure. Probably Clemson and Washington. tOSU is the leader in the clubhouse amongst the other teams and their case is stronger if Wisconsin beats PSU. But if the reverse happens, it would be difficult to not take the champion of what is supposed to be the best conference in college football. Especially since PSU has a win over tOSU. I suppose it comes down to if they want to reward the conference champion or put the team in that would give Alabama the best game. There may be people on that committee that believe in the former and some that believe tin the latter. Of course if Clemson and/or Washington lose, the B1G may get two teams in.

Conference champion helps when 2 teams have similiar resumes. If you blindly look at the results of OSU and PSU (even if PSU wins) OSU has the better resume. It boils down to conference chamipion vs. OOC performance here. Which is more important? If PSU lost 2 OOC games and won the Big 10 would you be singing the same tune? I mean if you are all about conference championships that's fine, but that would make OOC performance by a team moot.

[Assembly Hall]

My take is that Bama and tOSU are in. Clemson and Wasington's places await if they come up with victories in their conference championship games. But if one or both of those teams lose.......it will open the door for multiple B1G teams to get in.

[Sea Ray]

The Committee uses the following criteria:

 Championships won
 Strength of schedule
 Head-to-head competition (if it occurred)
 Comparative outcomes of common opponents (without incenting margin of victory)

Penn State beats OSU on 2 of the top 3 and a win over Wisconsin will help their strength of schedule

http://d30ratpzqzalg7.cloudfront.net/CD-drupal-cfp-PROD/s3fs-public/CFP%20Selection%20Committee%20Protocol.pdf?tV3FOZ6 8If3qops3X7XJQFmkEd00PiAY

[kaldaniels]

The Committee uses the following criteria:

 Championships won
 Strength of schedule
 Head-to-head competition (if it occurred)
 Comparative outcomes of common opponents (without incenting margin of victory)

Penn State beats OSU on 2 of the top 3 and a win over Wisconsin will help their strength of schedule

http://d30ratpzqzalg7.cloudfront.net/CD-drupal-cfp-PROD/s3fs-public/CFP%20Selection%20Committee%20Protocol.pdf?tV3FOZ6 8If3qops3X7XJQFmkEd00PiAY

You just listed the criteria used when 2 teams have similar resumes. Not the criteria for the top-4 teams. OSU and PSU do not have similar resumes if you view their schedules and results blindly.

[Chip R]

Conference champion helps when 2 teams have similiar resumes. If you blindly look at the results of OSU and PSU (even if PSU wins) OSU has the better resume. It boils down to conference chamipion vs. OOC performance here. Which is more important? If PSU lost 2 OOC games and won the Big 10 would you be singing the same tune? I mean if you are all about conference championships that's fine, but that would make OOC performance by a team moot.

But PSU beat tOSU head to head. Much like the Baylor TCU argument of a few years ago. That's one factor that will be used in determining who gets in. OOC schedule is another. However, tOSU played Bowling Green, Tulsa and Oklahoma. 1 good team of 3. PSU played Pitt, Kent St. and Temple. 2 good teams out of 3. The committee can say that tOSU had their chance by beating PSU and if they had taken care of business, they wouldn't have anything to worry about except the B1G championship game. Like I said, tOSU may go since they probably have a chance at beating Bama. But PSU/Wisc may go because they are the B1G champ and if you are the champ of the toughest conference, it is probably going to be tough to leave them out. All I'm saying is that Bama is the only one in for sure and come next week, you may not be very happy.

[kaldaniels]

But PSU beat tOSU head to head. Much like the Baylor TCU argument of a few years ago. That's one factor that will be used in determining who gets in. OOC schedule is another. However, tOSU played Bowling Green, Tulsa and Oklahoma. 1 good team of 3. PSU played Pitt, Kent St. and Temple. 2 good teams out of 3. The committee can say that tOSU had their chance by beating PSU and if they had taken care of business, they wouldn't have anything to worry about except the B1G championship game. Like I said, tOSU may go since they probably have a chance at beating Bama. But PSU/Wisc may go because they are the B1G champ and if you are the champ of the toughest conference, it is probably going to be tough to leave them out. All I'm saying is that Bama is the only one in for sure and come next week, you may not be very happy.

How is Temple a good team? How is Tulsa not a good team? Strange place to draw a line so I will have to stop there and see your reasoning. It seems you are looking for reasons to keep OSU out (not that you don't want them in but you truly believe they will be left out).

[BuckeyeRed27]

But PSU beat tOSU head to head. Much like the Baylor TCU argument of a few years ago. That's one factor that will be used in determining who gets in. OOC schedule is another. However, tOSU played Bowling Green, Tulsa and Oklahoma. 1 good team of 3. PSU played Pitt, Kent St. and Temple. 2 good teams out of 3. The committee can say that tOSU had their chance by beating PSU and if they had taken care of business, they wouldn't have anything to worry about except the B1G championship game. Like I said, tOSU may go since they probably have a chance at beating Bama. But PSU/Wisc may go because they are the B1G champ and if you are the champ of the toughest conference, it is probably going to be tough to leave them out. All I'm saying is that Bama is the only one in for sure and come next week, you may not be very happy.

Like I said a few posts ago, there is a chance OSU doesn't make it but Penn St has to absolutely lay out Wisconsin which is pretty unlikely.

Your OOC argument is hilarious. What are the 2 out of 3 good teams Penn St played? Oh and they lost one of those games to a middle of the pack ACC team. Ohio State beat either the Big 12 champion or runner up on the road at night.

The resumes really aren't close, unless like I said Penn St just lays out Wisconsin.

[kaldaniels]

Like I said a few posts ago, there is a chance OSU doesn't make it but Penn St has to absolutely lay out Wisconsin which is pretty unlikely.

Your OOC argument is hilarious. What are the 2 out of 3 good teams Penn St played? Oh and they lost one of those games to a middle of the pack ACC team. Ohio State beat either the Big 12 champion or runner up on the road at night.

The resumes really aren't close, unless like I said Penn St just lays out Wisconsin.

I am open minded as well. If a suprise blowout happens this weekend it will be considered and things could change.

[Hillsdale87]

Last Tuesday, the head of the CFP said the difference between OSU and PSU was pretty wide in the committee's mind. Then OSU beat the #3 team in the nation, so the gap will be even wider now. Like somebody mentioned earlier, I think it will take a 59-0 type win for PSU to top OSU, and even that might not be enough. PSU lost to Pitt and got trounced by 39 points by Michigan. OSU lost to PSU by 3 in a game where OSU outgained PSU 413 - 276 and won Time of Possession 37:19 - 22:41. If that game gets played 10 more times, with those same statistics, OSU probably wins 9 of them.

[Chip R]

Like I said a few posts ago, there is a chance OSU doesn't make it but Penn St has to absolutely lay out Wisconsin which is pretty unlikely.

Your OOC argument is hilarious. What are the 2 out of 3 good teams Penn St played? Oh and they lost one of those games to a middle of the pack ACC team. Ohio State beat either the Big 12 champion or runner up on the road at night.

The resumes really aren't close, unless like I said Penn St just lays out Wisconsin.

OK, Pitt has won 8 games and Temple have won 9 games. Seems to me they are good. I take back what I said about Tulsa. But if you stipulate Tulsa is good you also have to agree Pitt and Temple are good too.

You guys got me all wrong. I'd much rather see tOSU in there rather than PSU but let's not believe that no matter what happens on Saturday, that committee is going to say, "OK, it's Bama and tOSU. Now, who else?" All I'm saying is it is possible that tOSU is on the outside looking in. If you don't want to believe that, that's fine. But if PSU wins on Saturday, losing to them may keep tOSU out. The thing is, we don't know how they are going to decide this. There may be some set of criteria they use but they could just throw it out the window and go with their gut. I think it would be hard to keep tOSU out but I'm sure it was hard to keep TCU out a few years ago. Also, if you don't think head to head means anything then you better hope PSU wins.

[kaldaniels]

OK, Pitt has won 8 games and Temple have won 9 games. Seems to me they are good. I take back what I said about Tulsa. But if you stipulate Tulsa is good you also have to agree Pitt and Temple are good too.

You guys got me all wrong. I'd much rather see tOSU in there rather than PSU but let's not believe that no matter what happens on Saturday, that committee is going to say, "OK, it's Bama and tOSU. Now, who else?" All I'm saying is it is possible that tOSU is on the outside looking in. If you don't want to believe that, that's fine. But if PSU wins on Saturday, losing to them may keep tOSU out. The thing is, we don't know how they are going to decide this. There may be some set of criteria they use but they could just throw it out the window and go with their gut. I think it would be hard to keep tOSU out but I'm sure it was hard to keep TCU out a few years ago. Also, if you don't think head to head means anything then you better hope PSU wins.

I'm not saying anything about the goodness of those teams but it was obvious homework wasn't done when you proclaimed Temple good Tulsa bad. No biggie though.

I would ask you. Blindly. Compare the wins and losses of PSU and OSU. Even if PSU beats UW handily. Do you truly give PSU the edge? You are making statements like "if OSU gets in it is just because the committee wants Bama to get a challenge". I say hogwash to that. OSU arguably has been a top-4 team this year, even if a HTH tiebreaker keeps them out of the CCG. I myself have some trepidation about the final decision but it just seems pretty clear cut to me vis a vis OSU/PSU so I'm not that worried.

[Sea Ray]

You just listed the criteria used when 2 teams have similar resumes. Not the criteria for the top-4 teams. OSU and PSU do not have similar resumes if you view their schedules and results blindly.

There's no difference in the two criteria. Why are you trying to say otherwise?


Ranking football teams is an art, not a science. Football is popular in some measure because the outcome
of a game between reasonably matched teams is so often decided by emotional commitment,
momentum, injuries and the “unexpected bounce of the ball.” In any ranking system, perfection or
consensus is not possible and the physical impact of the game on student athletes prevents elaborate
playoff systems of multiple games. For purposes of any four team playoff, the process will inevitably need
to select the four best teams from among several with legitimate claims to participate.
Proposed Selection Process:

Establish a committee that will be instructed to place an emphasis on winning conference championships,
strength of schedule and head-to-head competition when comparing teams with similar records and
pedigree (treat final determination like a tie-breaker; apply specific guidelines).

http://d30ratpzqzalg7.cloudfront.net/CD-drupal-cfp-PROD/s3fs-public/CFP%20Selection%20Committee%20Protocol.pdf?tV3FOZ6 8If3qops3X7XJQFmkEd00PiAY

[kaldaniels]

There's no difference in the two criteria. Why are you trying to say otherwise?



http://d30ratpzqzalg7.cloudfront.net/CD-drupal-cfp-PROD/s3fs-public/CFP%20Selection%20Committee%20Protocol.pdf?tV3FOZ6 8If3qops3X7XJQFmkEd00PiAY

I'm saying that PSU and OSU don't have similar records and pedigree. Sorry but that extra loss is huge. That's (one loss) why UM, UF (if they beat Bama), UW (probably) and many more 2-3 loss teams have no shot. They had one loss too many. As does PSU when you compare them to OSU.

Yes. I'm saying there is a strong case that OSU is unequivocally a top 4 team.

[Sea Ray]

OK, Pitt has won 8 games and Temple have won 9 games. Seems to me they are good. I take back what I said about Tulsa. But if you stipulate Tulsa is good you also have to agree Pitt and Temple are good too.

You guys got me all wrong. I'd much rather see tOSU in there rather than PSU but let's not believe that no matter what happens on Saturday, that committee is going to say, "OK, it's Bama and tOSU. Now, who else?" All I'm saying is it is possible that tOSU is on the outside looking in. If you don't want to believe that, that's fine. But if PSU wins on Saturday, losing to them may keep tOSU out. The thing is, we don't know how they are going to decide this. There may be some set of criteria they use but they could just throw it out the window and go with their gut. I think it would be hard to keep tOSU out but I'm sure it was hard to keep TCU out a few years ago. Also, if you don't think head to head means anything then you better hope PSU wins.

If PSU wins on Sat and they're not in then they have an awfully big gripe with the process if OSU gets in over them.

[gonelong]

I'd much rather see tOSU in there rather than PSU but let's not believe that no matter what happens on Saturday, that committee is going to say, "OK, it's Bama and tOSU. Now, who else?" All I'm saying is it is possible that tOSU is on the outside looking in.

Absolutely. All the pundits on your sports show don't have a vote. Just because they are declaring tOSU in doesn't make it so.

GL

[BillDoran]

Head-to-head matchups matter, to be sure, but I think the OSU over PSU argument is easy as one loss against two. Add a bonus point to OSU for beating a top tier team in Oklahoma (on the road).

[Sea Ray]

I'm saying that PSU and OSU don't have similar records and pedigree. Sorry but that extra loss is huge. That's (one loss) why UM, UF (if they beat Bama), UW (probably) and many more 2-3 loss teams have no shot. They had one loss too many. As does PSU when you compare them to OSU.

Yes. I'm saying there is a strong case that OSU is unequivocally a top 4 team.

Understand, you're making up your own criteria here whereas I'm stating it straight from the committee's guidelines. Nowhere does it say overall record. Why should a loss to Pitt give OSU the nod over PSU seeing as Pitt was not on OSU's schedule? How is a committee process that?

This will be interesting to watch. I wouldn't rule out a 2 loss team making it

[Sea Ray]

Head-to-head matchups matter, to be sure, but I think the OSU over PSU argument is easy as one loss against two. Add a bonus point to OSU for beating a top tier team in Oklahoma (on the road).

Does PSU get a bonus for winning in their 13th game against a very highly ranked team? I would certainly think so. It's an extra game that OSU doesn't have to play

[kaldaniels]

Strength of schedule, head-to-head competition and championships won must be specifically
applied as tie-breakers between teams that look similar

Do the seasons of OSU and PSU look similar? What criteria are we to use as I'm just making up my own I'm told.

[kaldaniels]

Does PSU get a bonus for winning in their 13th game against a very highly ranked team? I would certainly think so. It's an extra game that OSU doesn't have to play

Yes they do. Does that swing the pendulum enough to bring HTH and conference championship into play? That's the question. It's possible but the 2 losses trump that from happening IMO.

[BillDoran]

Does PSU get a bonus for winning in their 13th game against a very highly ranked team? I would certainly think so. It's an extra game that OSU doesn't have to play

Beating Wisconsin would certainly be a feather in PSU's cap, but when considering overall performance (in conference and out), OSU has a better record. At present, they've played four of the top eight CFP teams and won three games. No other team can say that. (Michigan is close, with three of four wins against the top nine, but again two losses.)

[Sea Ray]

Do the seasons of OSU and PSU look similar? What criteria are we to use as I'm just making up my own I'm told.

What criteria are you using to select the four best teams and where are you getting it from?

[kaldaniels]

Beating Wisconsin would certainly be a feather in PSU's cap, but when considering overall performance (in conference and out), OSU has a better record. At present, they've played four of the top eight CFP teams and won three games. No other team can say that. (Michigan is close, with three of four wins against the top nine, but again two losses.)

Yep. Forget head to head. Forget conference championship.

On Dec 4 when you look at the wins and losses of OSU and PSU, does PSU's 11-2 stack up against OSU's 11-1 to the point where you say they are similar in "impressiveness" I guess for lack of a better term. I doubt it.

Penn State will have beaten OSU (forget head-to-head as we are looking to see if the teams are similar) and UW as their "great" wins. OSU will have OU,UM,UW as theirs.

OSU will have PSU as their loss.
PSU will have UM and Pitt as their 2.

Does that get to the point of similairity where you draw HTH and conference champion into play (where PSU would prevail). Doubtful.

[kaldaniels]

What criteria are you using to select the four best teams and where are you getting it from?

The results of games played. If I blindly look at results I don't see 4 teams with better up and down the schedule performance than OSU this year. If you want to put up some examples of 4 better teams I will listen.

[Sea Ray]

Beating Wisconsin would certainly be a feather in PSU's cap, but when considering overall performance (in conference and out), OSU has a better record. At present, they've played four of the top eight CFP teams and won three games. No other team can say that. (Michigan is close, with three of four wins against the top nine, but again two losses.)

That's certainly the argument for OSU but PSU has two things OSU doesn't: A championship and a win head to head. Those are two of the four criteria the committee uses for determining who gets one of these precious spots. I don't think the committee can put OSU in and keep PSU out and still say that they went by their own criteria. My guess is they'll get around it by putting both PSU and OSU in

[kaldaniels]

That's certainly the argument for OSU but PSU has two things OSU doesn't: A championship and a win head to head. Those are two of the four criteria the committee uses for determining who gets one of these precious spots. I don't think the committee can put OSU in and keep PSU out and still say that they went by their own criteria. My guess is they'll get around it by putting both PSU and OSU in

Just predicting not looking to argue (who knows what's going on in the committee's mind) but I think if PSU wins and everything else goes chalk this weekend it will be Bama, OSU, Clemson and UW not necessarily in that order.

[Hillsdale87]

If the situation were reversed, would you be disappointed if Urban went on a 10 minute rant and didn't tip his cap to Michigan?

Yes. The missed pass interference at the end of the PSU loss was much worse than the one in the 2nd OT. I could be wrong, but I don't remember Meyer spending much time on it after the game. OSU lost to PSU because they made some bad mistakes - the same reason Michigan lost on Saturday

[Sea Ray]

The results of games played. If I blindly look at results I don't see 4 teams with better up and down the schedule performance than OSU this year. If you want to put up some examples of 4 better teams I will listen.

The results include a loss to a team that (hypothetically speaking) won the conference championship. You're saying that a Wildcard should get the nod over the conference champion.

It all comes down to how much the committee values conf championships and head to head vs the "up and down performance" as you put it.

[Chip R]

I'm not saying anything about the goodness of those teams but it was obvious homework wasn't done when you proclaimed Temple good Tulsa bad. No biggie though.

I have a penchant for confusing Tulsa and Tulane. That's what happened there. :doh:


I would ask you. Blindly. Compare the wins and losses of PSU and OSU. Even if PSU beats UW handily. Do you truly give PSU the edge? You are making statements like "if OSU gets in it is just because the committee wants Bama to get a challenge". I say hogwash to that. OSU arguably has been a top-4 team this year, even if a HTH tiebreaker keeps them out of the CCG. I myself have some trepidation about the final decision but it just seems pretty clear cut to me vis a vis OSU/PSU so I'm not that worried.

I'm not saying that tOSU gets in because they give Alabama the best challenge. If that was the case, they would get the Patriots to play them. But I don't have a say in it and neither do you. tOSU has been a top 4 team all year and because of that they have a great chance of beating Bama. But even you have to agree they won't get in because they are B1G champs. Unfortunately for tOSU, that is part of the criteria they use in choosing these teams. Out of the top 4 B1G teams, tOSU has the best chance of beating Bama. Michigan is probably next and then PSU and Wisconsin. That committee doesn't want a coronation. Nothing would be worse than Bama winning two games 35-7 or worse. You think they wouldn't love to see Bama vs. tOSU? That's about as good as having Notre Dame in there. In order to do that, though, they have to say that the conference champion of the B1G isn't good enough to give Bama a game. And you can bet your bottom dollar that writers and talking heads will be up in arms that the B1G champ didn't make it. Now maybe they split the baby and pick Wisc/PSU and tOSU. But then they are saying two of the three ACC/PAC 12/Big 12 champs aren't good enough.

We know what the criteria is. What we don't know is how much weight is given to each one. Maybe they think 75% of the criteria is for a conference championship. Maybe they think it's only 25%. Maybe they think head to head is the way to choose. Or maybe they give equal weight to each one. Committee member A may not feel the same way as committee member B. Or maybe everyone is in lockstep. Does their vote have to be unanimous? Do two thirds have to agree or is it a simple majority? We have no idea what they are thinking so the only thing you can say for certain is that Alabama is in.

[BillDoran]

That's certainly the argument for OSU but PSU has two things OSU doesn't: A championship and a win head to head. Those are two of the four criteria the committee uses for determining who gets one of these precious spots. I don't think the committee can put OSU in and keep PSU out and still say that they went by their own criteria. My guess is they'll get around it by putting both PSU and OSU in

That's certainly sounds logic. If Clemson, Washington and Penn State all win this weekend, I think the committee can make only one decision and provide a sustainable rationale: one loss teams are in and two loss teams are out. The criteria you point out are - to my understanding - secondary to overall record.

[kaldaniels]

The results include a loss to a team that (hypothetically speaking) won the conference championship. You're saying that a Wildcard should get the nod over the conference champion.

It all comes down to how much the committee values conf championships and head to head vs the "up and down performance" as you put it.

Yes that may be the case. If you (not you but rhetorically) don't allow for that, what is the point of OOC games and whether you win or lose them or the quality of opponents.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Yes that may be the case. If you (not you but rhetorically) don't allow for that, what is the point of OOC games and whether you win or lose them or the quality of opponents.

Or even having a committee outside of choosing which conference champion doesn't get it. There is a lot more to it than just blindly picking the best conference championship. We have 2 years of data to go off of, but that isn't very much.

[Sea Ray]

That's certainly sounds logic. If Clemson, Washington and Penn State all win this weekend, I think the committee can make only one decision and provide a sustainable rationale: one loss teams are in and two loss teams are out. The criteria you point out are - to my understanding - secondary to overall record.

The Committee guidelines do NOT emphasize overall record. As a matter of fact, they belittle the argument I'm hearing from many on this board. Here's what the committee has to say about strength of schedule formulas and other criteria as opposed to head to head and conf championships:


Under the current construct, polls (although well-intended) have not expressed these values; particularly
at the margins where teams that have won head-to-head competition and championships are sometimes
ranked behind non-champions and teams that have lost in head-to-head competition. Nuanced
mathematical formulas ignore some teams who “deserve” to be selected.

I read that to mean that they value championships and head to head over "nuanced mathematical formulas". It sounds to me like they're belittling rankings that have conf champions ranked below other teams especially when the head to head went to the lesser ranked team.

[Sea Ray]

Or even having a committee outside of choosing which conference champion doesn't get it. There is a lot more to it than just blindly picking the best conference championship. We have 2 years of data to go off of, but that isn't very much.

In this example they're not just going with conf champions. They're going with a conf champion that won head to head if it's Penn State. If it's Wisconsin then the head to head argument tilts in OSU's favor

[kaldaniels]

The Committee guidelines do NOT emphasize overall record. As a matter of fact, they belittle the argument I'm hearing from many on this board. Here's what the committee has to say about strength of schedule formulas and other criteria as opposed to head to head and conf championships:



I read that to mean that they value championships and head to head over "nuanced mathematical formulas". It sounds to me like they're belittling rankings that have conf champions ranked below other teams especially when the head to head went to the lesser ranked team.

All criteria you have listed are to be used "at the margins" or when teams are "similar". Yet I don't see them defining those terms so I do think the committee is kinda on their own with that.

[BillDoran]

The Committee guidelines do NOT emphasize overall record. As a matter of fact, they belittle the argument I'm hearing from many on this board. Here's what the committee has to say about strength of schedule formulas and other criteria as opposed to head to head and conf championships:



I read that to mean that they value championships and head to head over "nuanced mathematical formulas". It sounds to me like they're belittling rankings that have conf champions ranked below other teams especially when the head to head went to the lesser ranked team.

Higher in their criteria they state this:


The criteria to be provided to the selection committee must be aligned with the ideals of the commissioners, Presidents, athletic directors and coaches to honor regular season success while at the same time providing enough flexibility and discretion to select a non-champion or independent under circumstances where that particular non-champion or independent is unequivocally one of the four best teams in the country.

When circumstances at the margins indicate that teams are comparable, then the following criteria must be considered:

I read the entire set of criteria as an effort to distance the CFP committee from polls and found the specific criteria you've listed as the immediate fallback to overall records.

It's fun to discuss, but if I've learned anything about college football, one or more of Clemson, Washington or Penn State will lose this weekend and throw the process into chaos.

Ultimately, I do believe Ohio State is fairly safe (if anything due to their financial clout).