Indiana Basketball Continued AGAIN

[Revering4Blue]

http://www.crimsonquarry.com/2016/12/1/13806814/indiana-basketball-iubb-iu-bob-knight-1976-1981-fired

It is long past time Indiana basketball gets over Bob Knight

[Assembly Hall]

http://www.crimsonquarry.com/2016/12/1/13806814/indiana-basketball-iubb-iu-bob-knight-1976-1981-fired

It is long past time Indiana basketball gets over Bob Knight

I gave up on him a loooooooooooooooong time ago. Good read Rev.

[SunDeck]

http://www.crimsonquarry.com/2016/12/1/13806814/indiana-basketball-iubb-iu-bob-knight-1976-1981-fired

It is long past time Indiana basketball gets over Bob Knight

My sentiments, exactly. The legacy of IU basketball exists largely because of him, but there is no reason to lament the fact that he doesn't want to participate anymore or that he selfishly withholds reciprocating the admiration so many people have for his career. He isn't relevant to the game anymore at all, not in Bloomington or anywhere else and the obvious truth is this, the team wins and loses without him. He's just a crazy old man, shaking a broom at teenagers.

[Revering4Blue]

I gave up on him a loooooooooooooooong time ago. Good read Rev.

His recent antics at a Purdue fundraising event --- completely blowing off the his IU fans, as if they didn't exist, or matter --- were the nail in the coffin for me. Talk about the proverbial middle finger.

[Assembly Hall]

http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/top-10-ncaa-tournament-resumes-indiana-ucla-outpace-duke-kentucky/

[Hoosier Red]

I couldn't remember if it was here or on the Coaching Carousel board where someone mentioned Fake Coach Wilson. But with apologies for plugging my friend's work, Crimsoncast did an "exit interview" with FCW that I assume all fans would enjoy.

http://www.crimsoncast.com/2016/12/crimsoncast-12-21-16-the-fake-coach-wilson-exit-interview/

[Assembly Hall]

Big day today for IU sports.......beer is on ice!!!!!!!!

[Assembly Hall]

Big day today for IU sports.......beer is on ice!!!!!!!!

That didn't work out like I wanted it to......oh well in other news, Fort Wayne gets beat at home by Western Illinois and Butler falls at St. John's.

[Revering4Blue]

A comprehensive analysis of IU's RPI ranking in correlation with a possible high NCAA tournament seed.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d8ROhH3_vs

[dubc47834]

IUs biggest problem is they don't have a very good PG. Newkirk isn't that guy and Jones is still too outa control. They need a leader, and right now they don't have one.

[Revering4Blue]

IUs biggest problem is they don't have a very good PG. Newkirk isn't that guy and Jones is still too outa control. They need a leader, and right now they don't have one.

That's been a concern, no doubt. And when you run into a defense like Louisville's --- and this loss was due mostly, if not entirely, due to what Louisville accomplished, rather than Indiana failing to execute...Give credit where credit is due --- or Virginia's, the aforementioned concern manifests itself. It's the main reason why I try (and sometimes fail) to, figuratively speaking, get too high after wins, and too low following losses.

Moving forward, the next three games are against Wisky and Illinois at home and Maryland on the road. IMHO, "we" must go at least 2-1 in those games to have a legitimate chance of winning the B1G.

Friendly advice to fellow Hoosier fans:

Don't put much stock into what you read on Hoosier message boards.

We've all been critical, and at times, still are, of CTC, but the narrative of Hoosiers win: it's all due to the players, while the Hoosier's losses are all due to CTC was old in '13.

Anyway, Happy New Year to all....Hoosier fan or not.

[Assembly Hall]

This team has me puzzled.

[gilpdawg]

The entire Big Ten has me puzzled so far.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Hoosier Red]

So a brief departure back to Football.

Kevin Wilson apparently will be named tOSU offensive coordinator. :eek:
Opening the season on a Thursday night against Ohio State just got a little bit more electricity.

Also, apparently Mike DeBord leaving Tennessee to become the Offensive Coordinator at IU. Everyone I've read hates it.

[Hoosier Red]

So how does IU stop the slide?

It's frustrating because the big wins earlier in the year were not a product of the higher ranked teams just playing poorly and IU getting away with it, or just an insanely hot night for IU shooting the ball.

They can do the things necessary, but I have very little confidence that they'll actually turn it around.

[Assembly Hall]

So how does IU stop the slide?

It's frustrating because the big wins earlier in the year were not a product of the higher ranked teams just playing poorly and IU getting away with it, or just an insanely hot night for IU shooting the ball.

They can do the things necessary, but I have very little confidence that they'll actually turn it around.

There are lot of things that really strike me odd about this slide. I question CTC's player rotations, I want to know who the leader on the team is, and it would be nice to have a half-court offense.

And I can't get it out of my head that this team is following the path of 84-85 squad.

[Hillsdale87]

There are lot of things that really strike me odd about this slide. I question CTC's player rotations, I want to know who the leader on the team is, and it would be nice to have a half-court offense.

And I can't get it out of my head that this team is following the path of 84-85 squad.

This team is showing how many warts Yogi covered last year. Crean isn't great at directing a half-court offense, which was fine last year because the team played very up-tempo, so there were a lot of shots on breaks or delayed breaks, which doesn't require a lot of structure, just an understanding of how to push the ball, fill lanes, and spread the floor. Those are pretty basic concepts, and to Crean's credit, he recruited and designed a team that fit that perfectly But when the offense got into the half court, Yogi could break down the defense himself and get the defense moving and out of position. There's nobody on this team that threatens the defense off of the dribble, which is a big problem because the offense doesn't create a lot of openings on its own. The other problem in the half court is that it takes forever to get into sets, especially when Morgan is playing the point. I don't mind the idea of Morgan running point, but he wastes a lot of time at the top, and if you're going to have a PG who's primary asset is being able to see over the defense versus penetrating, then you need to be running a lot of screens and have quick ball movement. Indiana doesn't really utilize either of those.

I still have hope that this team can turn it around, but there are definitely a few big flaws that have been exposed. Crean needs to fix the rotations. McSwain can't be getting meaningful minutes. Sitting Davis for McSwain late in the 2nd half against Wisconsin was inexcusable. It also feels like nobody on the team really understands their role, especially Bryant, who looks completely out of sorts. I'd also like to see Newkirk play significantly less. He's not much of a creator or shooter, and he's too careless with the ball. He's not bringing anything to the team right now. He's a PG who has 7 assists and 7 TOs in his last 3 games (80 minutes). I'd rather take the upside of Curtis Jones and deal with the frustrating mistakes he'll inevitably make.

[Assembly Hall]

All valid points Hillsdale. I think it was at the 8 minute mark in a tie game and McSwain and McRoberts were on the floor at the same time and I am thinking WTF? Bryant seems to have fallen in love with the 3-point line and he has become a defensive liability. OG just doesnt seem to be the same as last year due to his extended minutes.

Hell, I dont know.......but to say I am concerned is an understatement.

[Revering4Blue]

http://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2017/01/05/what-has-gone-wrong-with-indiana/

What has gone wrong with Indiana?

[Hillsdale87]

All valid points Hillsdale. I think it was at the 8 minute mark in a tie game and McSwain and McRoberts were on the floor at the same time and I am thinking WTF? Bryant seems to have fallen in love with the 3-point line and he has become a defensive liability. OG just doesnt seem to be the same as last year due to his extended minutes.

Hell, I dont know.......but to say I am concerned is an understatement.

On The Ringer College BBall podcast, Mark Titus's comment about Thomas Bryant was "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should". And I think that's definitely been his problem this year. The fact that he can shoot 3s definitely makes him a better NBA prospect, but if that comes at the expense of his efficiency inside, then it's really not a net positive. On defense, he's way too stiff and upright, which Happ really exposed a couple of times. He's 255 pounds, but that weight doesn't do much when he doesn't get a low base. Davis does a great job of getting low and using his leverage.

OG is fine, but he's being put in a role that he's not capable of right now. He's not a replacement for Troy Williams. He's a completely different player. His first step is explosive, but he's still so unskilled near the basket. This will improve with time, but his rawness is especially apparent in traffic. Part of his problem is that he does a pretty good job of getting into the lane, but then he brings the ball down and gets it knocked away, which contributes to a significant number of his turnovers. Also, while his shooting is ok, his stroke still needs a lot of work. He bends his wrist way too much, and doesn't have enough of a follow through on his shot, so it always comes out looking a little funky. He's made great strides, but it's still far from a pure stroke. I think it's a testament to his raw talent that he's a pretty good shooter even with a flawed shot, but if they can fix that, he'll become even more of an asset.

If I was Crean, I would make Newkirk the backup PG that he is, play a lineup of RoJo, Blackmon, Morgan, OG, and Bryant. I'd make RoJo the PG, spread the floor, and focus the offense on the high post. Indiana doesn't have guards that are capable of breaking a team down from the top of the key, but they are good shooters. The guys that are capable of actually winning 1 on 1 battles off the dribble are Morgan and Bryant. Instead of having them start with the ball at the 3 point line, they need to get the ball 15 feet from the hoop, where they can spot up and shoot, or take 3 dribbles, draw the defense, and then distribute or score. Bryant is generally quicker and/or stronger than whoever is guarding him, so this puts him in a position to win. It also reins him in a bit because he has a tendency to hold the ball too much at the 3 point line. Morgan is generally a mismatch as well, and with his passing skill, opens up 3 point shooters, or OG as a cutter.

[Boston Red]

IU is #129 in the RPI today?!? RPI is stupid.

[Hoosier Red]

This team is showing how many warts Yogi covered last year. Crean isn't great at directing a half-court offense, which was fine last year because the team played very up-tempo, so there were a lot of shots on breaks or delayed breaks, which doesn't require a lot of structure, just an understanding of how to push the ball, fill lanes, and spread the floor. Those are pretty basic concepts, and to Crean's credit, he recruited and designed a team that fit that perfectly But when the offense got into the half court, Yogi could break down the defense himself and get the defense moving and out of position. There's nobody on this team that threatens the defense off of the dribble, which is a big problem because the offense doesn't create a lot of openings on its own. The other problem in the half court is that it takes forever to get into sets, especially when Morgan is playing the point. I don't mind the idea of Morgan running point, but he wastes a lot of time at the top, and if you're going to have a PG who's primary asset is being able to see over the defense versus penetrating, then you need to be running a lot of screens and have quick ball movement. Indiana doesn't really utilize either of those.



That's a really good point. For all his flaws, Troy Williams could drive pretty adequately to force the defense out of position as well. It's just what happened after that was a coin flip whether it would be a 3 point kickout or an absolutely idiotic turnover.

[Hillsdale87]

Whatever the "it" factor is, this team doesn't have it. Last year, this team won 50/50 games. This year it figures out ways to lose them.

We still don't know how to play our big men together. With 1:30 left last night and needing a bucket, Bryant was running around the 3 point line instead of hammering in the post.

I think where Crean's struggling is that Davis, Bryant, Morgan, and Anunoby are 4 of our best 6 players, but none of them are creators. He wants to get his best players out on the floor, but putting the best players on the floor is not the same thing as putting the best team on the floor. And he still hasn't figured out optimal 5 man rotations

[Assembly Hall]

Whatever the "it" factor is, this team doesn't have it. Last year, this team won 50/50 games. This year it figures out ways to lose them.

We still don't know how to play our big men together. With 1:30 left last night and needing a bucket, Bryant was running around the 3 point line instead of hammering in the post.

I think where Crean's struggling is that Davis, Bryant, Morgan, and Anunoby are 4 of our best 6 players, but none of them are creators. He wants to get his best players out on the floor, but putting the best players on the floor is not the same thing as putting the best team on the floor. And he still hasn't figured out optimal 5 man rotations

I agree with everything you said there.......but I dont think there is a solution that is readily available. I noticed that Blackmon became the 50th IU player to score 1,000 points, hell he has allowed the opposition to score 5,000. That dude is the first head I would cut off. Rojo, needs to be more assertive or he is useless as well. FWIW, my take is to play a freshman back court. Jones, Green, and Gelon.

PS....aside from Yogi, this team misses Collin Hartman.

[Revering4Blue]

I agree with everything you said there.......but I dont think there is a solution that is readily available. I noticed that Blackmon became the 50th IU player to score 1,000 points, hell he has allowed the opposition to score 5,000. That dude is the first head I would cut off. Rojo, needs to be more assertive or he is useless as well. FWIW, my take is to play a freshman back court. Jones, Green, and Gelon.

PS....aside from Yogi, this team misses Collin Hartman.

The bolded point cannot be emphasized enough, especially given the lack of on-court leadership.

With a true point guard/creator, this team could have masked the loss of bench firepower and match-up problems for the opposing teams that Hartman provided -- to that end, yes, I'd rather throw Gelon (who, at the very least, presents a threat to score) out there ahead of the outclassed, especially offensively, McSwain and McRoberts. With a healthy Hartman, the lack of a true point guard could have been compensated for. Without either, an NCAA tourney appearance (if they make it that far) lasting past the first weekend is, to say the least, an unrealistic expectation.

[Revering4Blue]

Whatever the "it" factor is, this team doesn't have it. Last year, this team won 50/50 games. This year it figures out ways to lose them.

We still don't know how to play our big men together. With 1:30 left last night and needing a bucket, Bryant was running around the 3 point line instead of hammering in the post.

I think where Crean's struggling is that Davis, Bryant, Morgan, and Anunoby are 4 of our best 6 players, but none of them are creators. He wants to get his best players out on the floor, but putting the best players on the floor is not the same thing as putting the best team on the floor. And he still hasn't figured out optimal 5 man rotations

Davis is more polished in the post than Bryant, and it's not even close. In certain situations -- against the shot-blocking Dodd, for example -- perhaps it's better to have Bryant facing up away from the basket (though, not necessarily in three point range) to pull opposing bigs away from the basket, allowing Newkirk and others to drive to the hoop. If that requires playing Bryant and Davis together more often, so be it. It;s quite obvious that this team is not equipped to play conventional lineups for long periods of time, anyway.

[Hillsdale87]

I agree with everything you said there.......but I dont think there is a solution that is readily available. I noticed that Blackmon became the 50th IU player to score 1,000 points, hell he has allowed the opposition to score 5,000. That dude is the first head I would cut off. Rojo, needs to be more assertive or he is useless as well. FWIW, my take is to play a freshman back court. Jones, Green, and Gelon.

PS....aside from Yogi, this team misses Collin Hartman.

Blackmon gives up too much on D, but I don't know where scoring comes from without him. I definitely agree on playing Jones and Green more. They need at least as many minutes as Newkirk. Newkirk has the lowest basketball IQ of a PG that I can remember. He is always getting himself into awkward positions. On a fast break last night he cut through the lane right into the path of the dribbler who was going to the hoop.

This team misses Hartman, but I also haven't heard anybody talk about how much Bieldfeldt is missed. It's probably easy to forget him because he was just there for a year, but he was such a rock on last year's team. He did all the little things well. This team does none of them.

This team actually is a lot like the 2016 Bengals to me. A lot of talent and good players, good enough to play with anybody, but undisciplined. They give glimmers of hope but consistently don't do any of the little things required to win.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hillsdale87]

Davis is more polished in the post than Bryant, and it's not even close. In certain situations -- against the shot-blocking Dodd, for example -- perhaps it's better to have Bryant facing up away from the basket (though, not necessarily in three point range) to pull opposing bigs away from the basket, allowing Newkirk and others to drive to the hoop. If that requires playing Bryant and Davis together more often, so be it. It;s quite obvious that this team is not equipped to play conventional lineups for long periods of time, anyway.

Davis is clearly better for this team than Bryant, even though Bryant is the better pro prospect. Crean's offense relies on a guy who can eat up the defense in the post. Davis dominates, and it seems like Bryant doesn't want to get down there this year for whatever reason. It's a complete reversal from when he was so efficient in the post last year


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Assembly Hall]

Blackmon gives up too much on D, but I don't know where scoring comes from without him. I definitely agree on playing Jones and Green more. They need at least as many minutes as Newkirk. Newkirk has the lowest basketball IQ of a PG that I can remember. He is always getting himself into awkward positions. On a fast break last night he cut through the lane right into the path of the dribbler who was going to the hoop.

This team misses Hartman, but I also haven't heard anybody talk about how much Bieldfeldt is missed. It's probably easy to forget him because he was just there for a year, but he was such a rock on last year's team. He did all the little things well. This team does none of them.

This team actually is a lot like the 2016 Bengals to me. A lot of talent and good players, good enough to play with anybody, but undisciplined. They give glimmers of hope but consistently don't do any of the little things required to win.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Blackmon is an enigma and to some degree a cancer. If I was to make a comp it would be Bracey Wright.

Max was awesome. But also remember he was chewing up O.G.'s and Morgan's minutes as well. It looked as though we had replacements for him.

I am afraid this season is going to go down the same path as the '84-'85 team. The parts look to be there, but they aint working together.

[Hillsdale87]

Blackmon is an enigma and to some degree a cancer. If I was to make a comp it would be Bracey Wright.

Max was awesome. But also remember he was chewing up O.G.'s and Morgan's minutes as well. It looked as though we had replacements for him.

I am afraid this season is going to go down the same path as the '84-'85 team. The parts look to be there, but they aint working together.

Bryant should be trying to mirror his approach off of Max last year. Max banged in the post effectively, but used his 3 point shooting ability as an added wrinkle that brought a lot of diversity and an added dimension to the offense. He perfectly understood his role, and how to create mismatches with his skill set. Bryant can do all the things that Max did, but is far more talented, so he should do everything Max did far more effectively. Unfortunately, it seems like he's so focused on showcasing his perimeter skills to the NBA that he's lost sight of why the NBA was intrigued by him in the first place.

[Hillsdale87]

Blackmon is an enigma and to some degree a cancer. If I was to make a comp it would be Bracey Wright.

Crean needs to be more strategic in his lineups with Blackmon. Similar to the way the Warriors use Curry, put Blackmon on the the worst offensive guard to minimize his defensive liability while still getting good offensive output from him. Robert Johnson is a very good defensive guard, so he should always be on the best guard and switches should be minimized.

[Simon Rhymon]

Bryant should be trying to mirror his approach off of Max last year. Max banged in the post effectively, but used his 3 point shooting ability as an added wrinkle that brought a lot of diversity and an added dimension to the offense. He perfectly understood his role, and how to create mismatches with his skill set. Bryant can do all the things that Max did, but is far more talented, so he should do everything Max did far more effectively. Unfortunately, it seems like he's so focused on showcasing his perimeter skills to the NBA that he's lost sight of why the NBA was intrigued by him in the first place.

Bryant is really a talented kid, but he gets thrown off his pins too often. Either he messes up his footwork or somehow gets pushed around and loses his balance much too frequently for a guy his size and athletic ability. I love him though. Maybe all he needs is some quality assistants to work with him that know what it takes to play the post.

[Assembly Hall]

Bryant is really a talented kid, but he gets thrown off his pins too often. Either he messes up his footwork or somehow gets pushed around and loses his balance much too frequently for a guy his size and athletic ability. I love him though. Maybe all he needs is some quality assistants to work with him that know what it takes to play the post.

Good observations and Bryant might want to put the NBA on hold.

[Simon Rhymon]

Good observations and Bryant might want to put the NBA on hold.

Agreed. He'd be crazy to think about the NBA at this point.

[Assembly Hall]

Agreed. He'd be crazy to think about the NBA at this point.

As would some of the other Hoosiers.

[dubc47834]

Not looking good for OG...gotta feel for the kid

[Assembly Hall]

Not looking good for OG...gotta feel for the kid

Not at all.........

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/indiana/2017/01/18/og-anunoby-helped-court-after-tumbling-late-first-half/96747708/

[Assembly Hall]

Now this made me laugh......

http://www.hoosiersportsreport.com/2017/01/priller-ruled-ineligible-indiana-appealing/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[Simon Rhymon]

Now this made me laugh......

http://www.hoosiersportsreport.com/2017/01/priller-ruled-ineligible-indiana-appealing/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Not Priller !! The crowd loves him !

[Assembly Hall]

Not Priller !! The crowd loves him !

Yeah, but guys like me wonder why he is even on the team!

[Simon Rhymon]

Yeah, but guys like me wonder why he is even on the team!

Probably because Crean couldn't bring in anybody better.

[Assembly Hall]

Probably because Crean couldn't bring in anybody better.

Yepper

[Hoosier Red]

Probably because Crean couldn't bring in anybody better.

Not that year at least, and at least to this point Priller's resisted any pressure to be part of the annual Spring Creaning process.

[Assembly Hall]

Not that year at least, and at least to this point Priller's resisted any pressure to be part of the annual Spring Creaning process.

Hmmmm, well I dont know really how to respond to that HR. Lots of defections and guys being kicked off.....but we will keep that seat on the end of the bench warm for him.

[Hoosier Red]

Hmmmm, well I dont know really how to respond to that HR. Lots of defections and guys being kicked off.....but we will keep that seat on the end of the bench warm for him.

It's meant mainly in jest. He came in a gap when there was no one else to use the scholarships on, and he's sat at the end of the bench since then. Crean has a bad(if slightly undeserved) reputation for pushing a number of guys off the roster because he's pretty much always recruiting over them.

In my mind it's a thin line between being honest with a player about the playing time he can expect and pushing him out the door to open up a scholarship but I believe Crean's generally stayed on the honest side of that.
.

[Assembly Hall]

It's meant mainly in jest. He came in a gap when there was no one else to use the scholarships on, and he's sat at the end of the bench since then. Crean has a bad(if slightly undeserved) reputation for pushing a number of guys off the roster because he's pretty much always recruiting over them.

In my mind it's a thin line between being honest with a player about the playing time he can expect and pushing him out the door to open up a scholarship but I believe Crean's generally stayed on the honest side of that.
.

Well if Hartman doesnt come back this year that makes him eligible to come back next year. That means they are over signed by 3 right now. And the Hoosiers are hot after two more. Somebody has to go.

[BillDoran]

Wonder if the lack of continuity is part of the big-picture problem for Crean.

I'd be interested in seeing whether their is any evidence regarding Crean actually churning more players than most programs. Obviously, perpetual turnover isn't a problem in some places (e.g. Cal's Kentucky), but there just always seems to be something off with Crean's teams, and I can never put my finger on it.

[Assembly Hall]

Wonder if the lack of continuity is part of the big-picture problem for Crean.

I'd be interested in seeing whether their is any evidence regarding Crean actually churning more players than most programs. Obviously, perpetual turnover isn't a problem in some places (e.g. Cal's Kentucky), but there just always seems to be something off with Crean's teams, and I can never put my finger on it.

I would like to see some numbers regarding this as well. As I stated up above, they already have 3 guys in the fold for next year and they are hot after 2 more. IF they do indeed get those 2, they would be over signed by 5. 5 guys would have to go and they would all have eligibility remaining.

And on a side note.......Blackmon is out indefinitely.

[dubc47834]

I would like to see some numbers regarding this as well. As I stated up above, they already have 3 guys in the fold for next year and they are hot after 2 more. IF they do indeed get those 2, they would be over signed by 5. 5 guys would have to go and they would all have eligibility remaining.

And on a side note.......Blackmon is out indefinitely.

I think Crean was banking on JBJ and Bryant going pro, and possibly OG. With 2 of those guys hurt, that obviously puts a kink in the plan. Bryant and hurt his pro stock tremendously this year and JBJ was helping his until he got hurt. I haven't heard what he hurt, but it doesn't sound good if it's indefinate. Honesty I wouldn't mind seeing Bryant leave, he is clumsy, always getting his shot backed down low, is a defensive liability, and is on his backside more than a $2...well I think you know where I'm goin. I think the rest of this year needs to go toward seeing what we have in the young kids.

[dubc47834]

Fellas...it's gonna be a loooong rest of the season!!!!

[Playadlc]

This just isn't good enough.

Time for a change.

[Revering4Blue]

This just isn't good enough.

Time for a change.

Granted, the team was mediocre when Hartman was the only sidelined key player, but this team without three starting caliber players (Hartman. OG and JBJr) arguably has less firepower than Rutgers. Couple that with the fact that the program is one year removed from a B1G Championship, and it's not realistic to expect a coaching change this year. But, save for a deep tourney run next season, it will likely occur, as Sweet 16s are just not a high enough bar for a program of this stature.

Contrary to popular belief -- and I tired of this excuse a long time ago -- it is not as if this is a worse job than, say, 25 years ago or so; the program has simply, for a variety of reasons, indefensibly underachieved in totality since then. Given the inherent advantages of talent proximity in comparison with other Blue-blood programs, combined with IU's resources, with the right coach in place, this program shouldn't take a back seat to the UKs, KUs, Louisvilles and UNCs of the NCAA hoops world.

[Assembly Hall]

This the most disappointing season I have seen since 84-85. PITIFUL

[Hoosier Red]

Granted, the team was mediocre when Hartman was the only sidelined key player, but this team without three starting caliber players (Hartman. OG and JBJr) arguably has less firepower than Rutgers. Couple that with the fact that the program is one year removed from a B1G Championship, and it's not realistic to expect a coaching change this year. But, save for a deep tourney run next season, it will likely occur, as Sweet 16s are just not a high enough bar for a program of this stature.

Contrary to popular belief -- and I tired of this excuse a long time ago -- it is not as if this is a worse job than, say, 25 years ago or so; the program has simply, for a variety of reasons, indefensibly underachieved in totality since then. Given the inherent advantages of talent proximity in comparison with other Blue-blood programs, combined with IU's resources, with the right coach in place, this program shouldn't take a back seat to the UKs, KUs, Louisvilles and UNCs of the NCAA hoops world.

I've probably been as patient as anyone with regards to potential coaching changes. I accept there are better coaches out there but I've always essentially been held back by the fear that there are a lot worse coaches out there as well.

My friend made the correct analogy of UK with Tubby Smith. It got to a point where UK realized he just wasn't going to bring the team any further and accepted they needed a change.
The change was somewhat controversial, there was a huge national media outcry(Vitale) and even worse they blew it with the replacement coach. Yet they still were back to the final four within 4 years and won a national championship 5 years after letting Tubby go.

Does anyone see IU getting to the final four in the next 4 years?

[Boston Red]

If I were an IU fan, I'd want the admin to go get Gregg Marshall and enjoy the next ten years (he's not that young).

[dubc47834]

If I were an IU fan, I'd want the admin to go get Gregg Marshall and enjoy the next ten years (he's not that young).

Marshall isn't the guy I would recommend. The guy I would go hard after would be Archie Miller at Dayton. I think he is there just waiting on a blue blood to come scoop him up. If not him, go after Dane Fife. Not sure what kind of coach he would be, but the fan base would be good with it I think. Miller would be the better hirer tho

[Boston Red]

Miller over Marshall?!? Why on earth....?

[Revering4Blue]

I've probably been as patient as anyone with regards to potential coaching changes. I accept there are better coaches out there but I've always essentially been held back by the fear that there are a lot worse coaches out there as well.

My friend made the correct analogy of UK with Tubby Smith. It got to a point where UK realized he just wasn't going to bring the team any further and accepted they needed a change.
The change was somewhat controversial, there was a huge national media outcry(Vitale) and even worse they blew it with the replacement coach. Yet they still were back to the final four within 4 years and won a national championship 5 years after letting Tubby go.

Does anyone see IU getting to the final four in the next 4 years?

Under Crean? It's unlikely, unless a confluence of events fall into play at the same time, namely:

1) Under the radar recruits playing above their heads into NBA lottery status.

2) More success recruiting the prime Indiana High School talent (More on this below)

3) Health, of course.

4) One-and-done type of talent. I realize that a majority of the Hoosier fans abhor the idea, but it's damn near impossible to win a National Championship (Much less, reach the Final Four) without it. Villanova last year was the exception, rather than the rule, and they had Jay Wright coaching them.

Than again, I left Crean left for dead following '15. so he may have a surprise for us all besides the usual piece and tranquility. ;)

But, as I stated earlier, the chances of a canning taking place one year after a B1G title are slim. Without at least a Sweet 16 run next year, he's gone.

Regarding the lack of success recruiting top-flight in-state talent -- and this applies to whomever is coaching IU moving forward -- there's a huge elephant in the room:

Indiana High School kids today have little, if any, recollection of either a deep (read: at least Elite 8) tourney run and/or sustained program success. In other words, their likely view of IU hoops in their formative years is one of a program either defining mediocrity or one in complete shambles. Thus, they don't view IU as the "place to be" as most of us viewed them growing up, even if their parents are ardent IU fans, as it's one thing to have witnessed sustained years of IU as a successful, feared program with your own eyes, as, I imagine, most, if not all, posting here have.

In short, that type of disconnect needs to be addressed if IU wishes to return to their, frankly, rightful place as a hoops power.

[Revering4Blue]

Marshall isn't the guy I would recommend. The guy I would go hard after would be Archie Miller at Dayton. I think he is there just waiting on a blue blood to come scoop him up. If not him, go after Dane Fife. Not sure what kind of coach he would be, but the fan base would be good with it I think. Miller would be the better hirer tho

I agreed with you until you mentioned Fife. IU is a prime job --a Blueblood, if you will -- and can do better than that.

Forget the IU ties -- which essentially mean nothing -- and cast the net wide.


Miller over Marshall?!? Why on earth....?

I'd gladly take either if it reaches the point where the job is open.

Miller is younger, though. He could coach IU for 30 years or so, and IU wouldn't have to go through another coaching search in 10 years.

Both are much better, IMO, than some of the other names bantered about, as I highly doubt that Stevens, Donovan or Mack are coming here; neither are Sean Miller or Mark Few.

Chris Holtmann - I'd like to see him engineer a deep NCAA tourney run before handing him the keys. Plus, he's now in a power-five conference, himself.

Steve Alford - Why? He was far, far worse than the man he replaced at Iowa. His New Mexico teams didn't do much in the NCAAs. And, at least so far, has essentially been Crean at UCLA. And if he leads the Bruins to a deep run, he wouldn't leave Westwood anyway.

Tony Bennett - Actually, he's one of the first I would contact. However...his sister was canned as IU Women's coach years ago, which, reportedly, along with the program then in need of a complete rebuild, turned him away from pursuing the IU job in '08. Then again, the program, while underachieving, is a far cry from the '08-'09 dumpster fire, and the athletic department personnel, as well as several trustees, from the time period of his sister coaching at IU are long gone.

[Assembly Hall]

A couple of under the radar names I have seen thrown out there if the IU job becomes open are Frank Vogel and Bryce Drew.

[Revering4Blue]

A couple of under the radar names I have seen thrown out there if the IU job becomes open are Frank Vogel and Bryce Drew.
Much like Holtmann, Drew needs a deep tourney run before consideration, IMHO.

IU needs an established college coach who has, more or less, dominated his conference, and produced at least one deep NCAA tourney run. Marshall and Archie Miller check both boxes.

I'm not sure what to think about Vogel, as I'm not sure the NBA route is the way to go. Having said that, Vogel makes more sense than say, Randy Wittman or Mike Woodson, as his name and reputation actually resonates with the High Schoolers today, as they have experienced far more Pacers' success in their lifetime than IU success. Sure, Wittman and Woodson and Alford, for that matter, resonate with the parents of said High Schoolers, but that and $1 will get you a cup of coffee.

In conclusion, it's not that I don't believe that Crean is a Power-five caliber coach; he is -- Place him in Seattle coaching the Huskies, DePaul or Clemson, where the program expectations are not close to what they are in Bloomington, which should be the same as they are in Chapel Hill, Durham, Lawrence or Lexington and he'd be fine.

[redsfanmia]

In all seriousness what are the expectations for IU now?

[Revering4Blue]

In all seriousness what are the expectations for IU now?

Expectations for this season or the program itself?

If JBJr returns soon, an NCAA bid is about as much as we should realistically expect. If this team (without Anunoby and Hartman) somehow reaches the Sweet 16, they've overachieved, IMO.

As for the expectations for the program itself, I stand by what I stated earlier: This is an elite job -- the only one in the B1G. Thus, the expectations should be on par with the expectations for the fellow elite jobs (in no particular order):

UK
KU
UNC
Louisville
Arizona
UCLA
Duke --- Post Coach K is crucial though, as this may equate with Michigan State, Syracuse and UConn (under Calhoun), in that it's very likely that it's more about the specific coach than the "job" itself. Translation: Duke, MSU and Syracuse could easily become Georgetown post John Thompson (not John Thompson III) after their legendary coaches hang it up, and UConn may continue to slide.

As much as it pains me to say this, no program in the last twenty years or so has underachieved as much as IU given inherent infrastructure (including talent proximity) and resource advantages, and it isn't close.

Ironically though, it wasn't/isn't so much about Davis' and Crean's individual teams underachieving relative to their talent -- unlike the "95-'00 Knight coached teams, which served as the poster children for underachievement, and served as the impetus for the program's downward spiral, in which the program has never fully recovered as a sustained power -- but any way you slice it, collectively, it all adds up to the same, sorry result. Said collective result wouldn't be acceptable at any of the six elite programs that I listed, why should it be acceptable at IU?

[redsfanmia]

I think Indiana Basketball was more a coach driven thing, Branch MCCaracken was great then there was lots of mediocrity, Bob Knight was great then Lots of mediocrity. Duke may follow the same line when Coach K leaves.

[Assembly Hall]

Rev keeps touching on it and he is dead on when he says "talent proximity". The problem is that Crean isn't tapping into that talent pool. Sure he has gotten some Indiana talent....Hulls, Zeller, Yogi, and JBJ. But for the most part he has whiffed on the in-state talent that is right in front of him. I dont understand why.

[Revering4Blue]

I think Indiana Basketball was more a coach driven thing, Branch MCCaracken was great then there was lots of mediocrity, Bob Knight was great then Lots of mediocrity. Duke may follow the same line when Coach K leaves.

Sustained elite status is only part of the equation, along with talent proximity, infrastructure and resources, but how many schools, other than the other seven schools that I listed as "elite" jobs have even experienced two or more periods of sustained success, such as the McCracken and Knight IU eras, no matter the number of coaches?

Not Duke -- Vic Bubas and Bill Foster were good, but not great coaches, and they were never a year-in, year-out feared power until Coach K.

Not Syracuse

Not Michigan State -- Michigan State is a power due to Tom Izzo...PERIOD! Jud Heathcoate was another good, but not great coach and they were mostly "meh" after the Magic Johnson era. It is the definition of a coach driven job, as it lags behind IU from the aforementioned infrastructure, talent proximity, and resource components. And there is no way in Hades that the Michigan State job is on par with the Indiana job; there is no logical argument otherwise. Utilizing the aforementioned components which largely define "elite" job status, MSU actually should also rate behind Maryland and OSU and tied with Michigan as far as B1G job rankings.

As a comparison, there is no reason -- none -- why IU basketball should not be as successful as say, Ohio State football.

[Revering4Blue]

Rev keeps touching on it and he is dead on when he says "talent proximity". The problem is that Crean isn't tapping into that talent pool. Sure he has gotten some Indiana talent....Hulls, Zeller, Yogi, and JBJ. But for the most part he has whiffed on the in-state talent that is right in front of him. I dont understand why.

I hit on some of the issues for the disconnect between in-state high schoolers and IU in post #308, and still feel that they play much bigger factor than most Hoosier fans care to admit.

In any case, neither Davis nor Crean, for whatever reasons, established the type of rapport with the Indiana High School coaches that is required for consistently landing elite Indiana High School talent. In Davis' case, it's kind of surprising, in that he was a big reason why the players who formed the nucleus of the '02 tourney run chose to play for Knight in the first place. It should be noted in Davis' defense, that Sean May still wanted to come to IU (even after Knight was canned), but RMK himself -- who, don't kid yourself, has worked overtime to help sabotage the program following his dismissal, and it isn't out of the question that he continued to do so with Indiana High School coaches for quite awhile, though I doubt that it plays a factor today -- got in Scott May's ear to ensure that it didn't happen.

As for Crean, the main issue I see recruiting wise is that this is year nine and his recruiting doesn't inspire confidence that an upward program trajectory is in the cards, which, IMHO, doesn't bode well for his IU future.

[redsfanmia]

Sustained elite status is only part of the equation, along with talent proximity, infrastructure and resources, but how many schools, other than the other seven schools that I listed as "elite" jobs have even experienced two or more periods of sustained success, such as the McCracken and Knight IU eras, no matter the number of coaches?

Not Duke -- Vic Bubas and Bill Foster were good, but not great coaches, and they were never a year-in, year-out feared power until Coach K.

Not Syracuse

Not Michigan State -- Michigan State is a power due to Tom Izzo...PERIOD! Jud Heathcoate was another good, but not great coach and they were mostly "meh" after the Magic Johnson era. It is the definition of a coach driven job, as it lags behind IU from the aforementioned infrastructure, talent proximity, and resource components. And there is no way in Hades that the Michigan State job is on par with the Indiana job; there is no logical argument otherwise. Utilizing the aforementioned components which largely define "elite" job status, MSU actually should also rate behind Maryland and OSU and tied with Michigan as far as B1G job rankings.

As a comparison, there is no reason -- none -- why IU basketball should not be as successful as say, Ohio State football.
I agree but for some reason all the Coaches since RMK have recruited nationally instead of just locking up the border of Indiana and going to the surrounding states to supplement. Kentucky would have fired Crean a few years ago, he has done a serviceable job getting them to where they are but he isn't going to lead them to any national titles, final fours or even elite eights.

[Simon Rhymon]

I think Indiana Basketball was more a coach driven thing, Branch MCCaracken was great then there was lots of mediocrity, Bob Knight was great then Lots of mediocrity. Duke may follow the same line when Coach K leaves.

I'm not a Duke lover by any means, but they had some really good coaches (Vic Bubas and Bill Foster) and great teams long before K. In fact John Feinstein wrote a book about one of Foster's teams. Once K leaves they may go down a level temporarily but there is no reason to think it will have a lasting effect.

[Assembly Hall]

I agree but for some reason all the Coaches since RMK have recruited nationally instead of just locking up the border of Indiana and going to the surrounding states to supplement. Kentucky would have fired Crean a few years ago, he has done a serviceable job getting them to where they are but he isn't going to lead them to any national titles, final fours or even elite eights.

Knight had his fair share of national recruits. Jim Thomas, Joe Hillman, Andrae Patterson, Charlie Miller, and Richard Mandeville come to mind. But the General was locking up the best talent this state had to offer for quite a while. How many Indiana kids are on the roster right now? By my count they have 3 scholarship players from the state. That will be Crean's undoing.

[Revering4Blue]

I agree but for some reason all the Coaches since RMK have recruited nationally instead of just locking up the border of Indiana and going to the surrounding states to supplement. Kentucky would have fired Crean a few years ago, he has done a serviceable job getting them to where they are but he isn't going to lead them to any national titles, final fours or even elite eights.


Knight had his fair share of national recruits. Jim Thomas, Joe Hillman, Andrae Patterson, Charlie Miller, and Richard Mandeville come to mind. But the General was locking up the best talent this state had to offer for quite a while. How many Indiana kids are on the roster right now? By my count they have 3 scholarship players from the state. That will be Crean's undoing.

Solid points from both of you.

Now, talent is talent, and, taken in a vacuum, it doesn't matter from which state you acquire such talent. There are certain instances in which it, makes sense to nab such talent -- Noah Vonleh, for example -- in place of "homegrown" talent which lacks the ceiling of a Vonleh. The problem with an IU coach focusing primarily on National recruits at the expense of Indiana Kids (and good point, redsfanmia, about supplementing such kids with kids from surrounding states) is that you are -- and I hate to keep harping on this -- not taking advantage of inherent regional recruiting advantages. In other words, you are placing yourself at a significant disadvantage recruiting-wise, as UK, KU, UNC and the like, unlike IU, MUST primarily recruit Nationally to ensure year-in, year-out supremacy......IU does not. That stated, along with reclaiming "our" Central Indiana High School turf, it would behoove the IU program to secure more players from talent-laden Northwest Indiana, where Purdue, Michigan and Michigan State have been successful. Granted, Perea was a whiff, but Gelon, if he's successful, may entice more NW Indiana recruits to look IU's way -- no matter the coach.

As for the big picture, IMHO, Hoosier Red summed it up perfectly sometime ago by proclaiming something to the effect of If "the shot" remains the highlight of Crean's IU coaching career five years after the fact, he's very likely out of a job. So, no, despite hypothetically factoring out Crean's first three IU seasons, while factoring in only everything from the Zeller area forward, Crean wouldn't have lasted past '15 at UK, KU or UNC, for example.

[dubc47834]

I tend to be in the camp of keep Crean unless you have a for certain guy that you think you can get. I generally don't like to get rid of guys just to get rid of a guy, or to just try someone new. The problem right now is Crean has totally lost the IU fans from the Bob Knight era. I so often see things on Facebook about wishing for the Knight days to come back, or for Knight brand of basketball to come back. When Crean was winning, these fans didn't say much, but now that there has been a down season those fans are coming out of the wood work with the #firecrean stuff. Those fans want Stevens or Alford to come thru the doors. I think most honest fans know that isn't going to happen. I don't think you can make those fans happy unless you bring in an "Indiana" guy. Either a guy that played/coached with Knight, or a guy from Indiana who can recruit those southern Indiana talents. Generally recruits north of Indy are Purdue, Notre Dame, or Butler guys if they are going to an in state school. Knight didn't recruit those guys a whole lot either. I hate being mediocre, but I don't want to bring in a guy who we are taking a chance on and it doesn't pan out. Then we are in the rebuild process all over again. I think Indiana can get back up to where it was under Coach Knight mid 90's and earlier. I hope that Crean is that guy that can bring IU back, I mean he took a huge chance on IU. I understand he has been given more rope than a usually IU coach would, I think rightfully so, but the more and more losses that pile up the more and more people will be calling for his proverbial head. I bleed IU cream and crimson more than most fans(I think anyway) and seeing the program where it currently is right now sucks. Specially when I work with Turdue and UK fans...:cry:

[Revering4Blue]

I tend to be in the camp of keep Crean unless you have a for certain guy that you think you can get. I generally don't like to get rid of guys just to get rid of a guy, or to just try someone new. The problem right now is Crean has totally lost the IU fans from the Bob Knight era. I so often see things on Facebook about wishing for the Knight days to come back, or for Knight brand of basketball to come back. When Crean was winning, these fans didn't say much, but now that there has been a down season those fans are coming out of the wood work with the #firecrean stuff. Those fans want Stevens or Alford to come thru the doors. I think most honest fans know that isn't going to happen. I don't think you can make those fans happy unless you bring in an "Indiana" guy. Either a guy that played/coached with Knight, or a guy from Indiana who can recruit those southern Indiana talents. Generally recruits north of Indy are Purdue, Notre Dame, or Butler guys if they are going to an in state school. Knight didn't recruit those guys a whole lot either. I hate being mediocre, but I don't want to bring in a guy who we are taking a chance on and it doesn't pan out. Then we are in the rebuild process all over again. I think Indiana can get back up to where it was under Coach Knight mid 90's and earlier. I hope that Crean is that guy that can bring IU back, I mean he took a huge chance on IU. I understand he has been given more rope than a usually IU coach would, I think rightfully so, but the more and more losses that pile up the more and more people will be calling for his proverbial head. I bleed IU cream and crimson more than most fans(I think anyway) and seeing the program where it currently is right now sucks. Specially when I work with Turdue and UK fans...:cry:

I hear 'ya, but....

When the alternative is the defeatist attitude of possibly remaining mediocre, it's best to swing for the fences, and I say that as someone who remained reticent to a possible coaching change for quite awhile, and, frankly, also hope that Crean is the guy who can at least pull IU back to year-in, year-out respected and feared status. But, sooner or later, reality hits you square in the face.

Granted, the it has to an "Indiana" guy crowd are relatively small, but VERY vocal, but their line of thinking baffles me. For the sake of comparison, were either the UNC or Duke jobs to open, would fans in either place demand one of their own as coach? If so, they are fools, as neither school, at least at this point, can point to a homerun hire that is one of their own. UK fans wisely didn't give a damn that Pitino and Calipari had no ties to UK. Any IU coach worth his weight in salt should be able to effectively recruit the state of Indiana, just as any coach worth a damn could have rebuilt IU program from what Crean inherited in '08...Heck, a trained Chimp could have rebuilt the program back from '08. If said fans wouldn't be happy with Archie Miller or Greg Marshall -- though I doubt that Marshall would leave his perch as the Gonzaga of the Midwest -- then their basketball IQs are out of calibration.

And, while Stevens isn't coming, it is not that outlandish to believe -- again, assuming that the job opens within one year, which is no guarantee -- that Billy Donovan would be interested. The reasoning:

1) Without Durrant, the Thunder are a middle of the pack Western Conference team with a Superstar and a good, but not great, supporting cast. Even with Presti, a really good GM in the fold, it's going to be tough sledding to surround Westbrook with enough talent to seriously, once again, challenge for the top spot in the West.

2) He could be an absolute monster at IU -- and it's a safe bet that he is cognizant of that -- given that he has already proven that he can recruit Nationally. Couple that with the advantages infrastructure/resource-wise he'd enjoy at IU compared with Florida (Indiana High School kids are well aware of Billy Donovan from his Florida days, and the NBA street cred wouldn't hurt), and he's more than likely going to supplement his NCAA coaching legacy with Banners..and I'm not referring to the Sweet 16 type of banners.

3) If it still sounds outlandish, just how many people believed that Rick Pitino would leave the Knicks (a team much like the current Thunder -- A Superstar with a good, but not great, supporting cast) for UK? And Pitino was walking into (initially speaking) a much, much worse situation than Donovan would be walking into at IU.

Bottomline: To reiterate, when the program is mediocre and stuck in the mud, underachieving indefensibly, you have two choices:

1) Status quo.

2) Try something new.

Given that you are Indifreakingana, the correct choice should be painfully obvious.

[Assembly Hall]

In regards to dubc's post up above.......I respectfully disagree concerning Knight and his recruiting of the Northern kids. Laskowski was from South Bend, Kent Benson and Steve Alford from New Castle, Dan Dakich and Matt Nover from the NW, Ted Kitchel from Galveston, John Flowers and Tracy Foster from Ft. Wayne, and Luke Recker from Auburn. I am sure I left a few others out.

[Revering4Blue]

In regards to dubc's post up above.......I respectfully disagree concerning Knight and his recruiting of the Northern kids. Laskowski was from South Bend, Kent Benson and Steve Alford from New Castle, Dan Dakich and Matt Nover from the NW, Ted Kitchel from Galveston, John Flowers and Tracy Foster from Ft. Wayne, and Luke Recker from Auburn. I am sure I left a few others out.

Delray Brooks from Michigan State.

Knight also heavily recruited, ultimately unsuccessfully, "Big Dog" Robinson from Gary. It should also be noted that while he wasn't officially a Knight recruit, John Ritter (no, not the late actor) from Goshen served as Captain for the '73 Final Four game -- the one in which Bill Walton was the beneficiary of some egregious calls against IU center Steve Downing.

McCracken, Watson and Knight all recruited Northern Indiana well and hopefully JBjr serves as a springboard for future success there, no matter the coach.

[Assembly Hall]

Delray Brooks from Michigan State.

Knight also heavily recruited, ultimately unsuccessfully, "Big Dog" Robinson from Gary. It should also be noted that while he wasn't officially a Knight recruit, John Ritter (no, not the late actor) from Goshen served as Captain for the '73 Final Four game -- the one in which Bill Walton was the beneficiary of some egregious calls against IU center Steve Downing.

McCracken, Watson and Knight all recruited Northern Indiana well and hopefully JBjr serves as a springboard for future success there, no matter the coach.

Delray Brooks was from Michigan State. Hell, I thought he was from Michigan City! LOL

I would also throw Ray Tolbert and Stu Robinson in there as well from Anderson.

Knight recruited Northern Indiana well when it was warranted.

[Boston Red]

Greg Marshall -- though I doubt that Marshall would leave his perch as the Gonzaga of the Midwest

Marshall would leave Wichita for Bloomington in a heartbeat. He's patient and waits for the right job to open (he was at Winthrop for almost 10 years), but he's not completely opposed to switching jobs. I'm almost certain he'd have taken Texas if offered when they went Shaka instead. He used Alabama for a raise, sure, but that's Alabama. If Indiana came calling with that Alabama money ($4 million+), he'd be gone.

[Assembly Hall]

Marshall would leave Wichita for Bloomington in a heartbeat. He's patient and waits for the right job to open (he was at Winthrop for almost 10 years), but he's not completely opposed to switching jobs. I'm almost certain he'd have taken Texas if offered when they went Shaka instead. He used Alabama for a raise, sure, but that's Alabama. If Indiana came calling with that Alabama money ($4 million+), he'd be gone.

One would like to think he would jump at an IU offer. But one never really knows what is in a guys head or if they are ready to go into a pressure cooker type job.

[redsfanmia]

Delray Brooks was from Michigan State. Hell, I thought he was from Michigan City! LOL

I would also throw Ray Tolbert and Stu Robinson in there as well from Anderson.

Knight recruited Northern Indiana well when it was warranted.

Jay Edwards and Lyndon Jones were from Marion.

[Revering4Blue]

Delray Brooks from Michigan State.

Were this a game show, I wouldn't even get a copy of the home game.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ytCEuuW2_A

[Revering4Blue]

Hoosiers In The NBA: 2016-2017 Midseason Grades

http://https://qtipsforsports.wordpress.com/2017/01/31/hoosiers-in-the-nba-2016-2017-midseason-grades/

This is a good read.

Weak as the '13 draft was, it is interesting that Cody Zeller has outperformed most of his draft classmates, including most of them taken ahead of him. And, right now, his "grade" is higher than any Hoosier in the NBA not named Eric Gordon. Also, Yogi Ferrell has found a home with the Dallas Mavericks. :beerme:

Edit: Apparently, the direct link is not working, so you'll find it on this page (A great IU site with a wealth of info, BTW) under Thursday, February 2nd stories.

http://http://mypage.iu.edu/~dyeskie/home.html

Or Google Doug Yeskie's IU Page.

[Assembly Hall]

^^^^^^^ It was a good read.

Hopefully Troy will find a place to land.

[Assembly Hall]

A couple of other Northeners that I forgot about that Knight recruited are Jarrad Odle from Swayzee and Sean Kline from Huntington........but I dont think Kline ever played for Bobby?

[Razor Shines]

https://www.facebook.com/IndianaMensBasketball/videos/1237706876313889/?pnref=story

Yogi with 9 threes last night for the Mavs. His pull up three on a fast break made me happy.

[dubc47834]

In regards to dubc's post up above.......I respectfully disagree concerning Knight and his recruiting of the Northern kids. Laskowski was from South Bend, Kent Benson and Steve Alford from New Castle, Dan Dakich and Matt Nover from the NW, Ted Kitchel from Galveston, John Flowers and Tracy Foster from Ft. Wayne, and Luke Recker from Auburn. I am sure I left a few others out.

Probly should have said seldom recruited the northern part of the state. I know a guy who works the AAU scene and way back when used to work with Pat Knight, and he said that Knight would barely recruit the northern part because he didn't feel they were as smart as the kids from southern Indiana. You can say what you want about if being true or not, just what he has told me on numerous occasions.

[dubc47834]

https://www.facebook.com/IndianaMensBasketball/videos/1237706876313889/?pnref=story

Yogi with 9 threes last night for the Mavs. His pull up three on a fast break made me happy.

Awesome to see Yogi playing and playing well...hope he has found a home for good!!!

[Assembly Hall]

Probly should have said seldom recruited the northern part of the state. I know a guy who works the AAU scene and way back when used to work with Pat Knight, and he said that Knight would barely recruit the northern part because he didn't feel they were as smart as the kids from southern Indiana. You can say what you want about if being true or not, just what he has told me on numerous occasions.

Like I would believe anything Pat Knight had to say? That is absolute hogwash. Seldom recruited the northern part of the state? BS Now if you are talking about the "region" I could understand that.

[Revering4Blue]

Like I would believe anything Pat Knight had to say? That is absolute hogwash. Seldom recruited the northern part of the state? BS Now if you are talking about the "region" I could understand that.

FWIW, I interpreted dub's post as Pat Knight himself rarely recruiting the Northern part of the state. Given that the majority of the Northern Area IU recruits occurred before Pat Knight became as assistant -- Luke Recker, the obvious exception -- it seems plausible, at least to a certain extent. Having said that, I, too, am curious as to whether or not "Northern Part" refers to a specific region within Northern Indiana, which certainly would lend credence to the claim. In any case, as dub stated, we can question whether the information conveyed by AAU guy is true or not, as dub can only go by what he was told on numerous occasions.

[Assembly Hall]

FWIW, I interpreted dub's post as Pat Knight himself rarely recruiting the Northern part of the state. Given that the majority of the Northern Area IU recruits occurred before Pat Knight became as assistant -- Luke Recker, the obvious exception -- it seems plausible, at least to a certain extent. Having said that, I, too, am curious as to whether or not "Northern Part" refers to a specific region within Northern Indiana, which certainly would lend credence to the claim. In any case, as dub stated, we can question whether the information conveyed by AAU guy is true or not, as dub can only go by what he was told on numerous occasions.

Bobby rarely recruited "The Region" which in case posters out there dont know is the term they use to describe the far NW corner of Indiana. Some people define it differently, but it is basically a term that describes the Chicago Metropolitan over flow into NW Indiana. A lot of good basketball players have come out of Gary and East Chicago with little interest from IU.

[Assembly Hall]

As it sits right now, IU is squarely on the bubble. I am thinking they have to at least go 4-3 to close out conference play and win 1 in the BTT to secure a spot. But these next two are absolutely crucial.

[fearofpopvol1]

I think Crean has to go. Can't lose to Purdue at home when you're on the bubble.

I was for him going and then I backed off that but I now firmly believe he has to go.

[Assembly Hall]

IU might very well not win another game this season.

[redsfanmia]

I think Crean has to go. Can't lose to Purdue at home when you're on the bubble.

I was for him going and then I backed off that but I now firmly believe he has to go.

Kentucky would have fired him already, IU is settling and I doubt he goes anywhere anytime soon.

[Assembly Hall]

Kentucky would have fired him already, IU is settling and I doubt he goes anywhere anytime soon.

I hate to say it but I think you are right. That being said, Crean was squarely on the hot seat heading into last season and it wasn't looking good for him early on...then IU caught fire winning the B1G and making a SS appearance. However, expectations were high for this season. I would surmise that all the injuries will keep him place for next season.

[Assembly Hall]

Starting to hear rumors that CTC might be gone.........but one thing is for sure. IU's season has made it through the toilet and is in the septic tank.

[redsfanmia]

Starting to hear rumors that CTC might be gone.........but one thing is for sure. IU's season has made it through the toilet and is in the septic tank.

Credible source? I hope he is gone because I would like to be able to follow IU basketball again, waiting for Clappy to be gone. I'm not a fan.

[Boston Red]

I'm not a fan.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4mk2AzXUAASy_Q.jpg

[Assembly Hall]

Credible source? I hope he is gone because I would like to be able to follow IU basketball again, waiting for Clappy to be gone. I'm not a fan.

Well he is right more than he is wrong. My take is the boosters are uneasy and have stopped donating at an alarming rate. They want a new coach.

[Revering4Blue]

Well he is right more than he is wrong. My take is the boosters are uneasy and have stopped donating at an alarming rate. They want a new coach.
I'm essentially hearing the same thing, but, from what I am told, its likely to be a mutual parting of ways, which makes sense for two reasons:

1) The handwriting is on the wall that Anunoby (Too much risk injury-wise to return), Bryant (Dearth of big men in this draft) and JBjr (Injury-prone, and his stock will not rise even if he returns) will say goodbye following the conclusion of the season, which means it's unlikely that a deep tourney run in '18 (the only way Crean -- if he returns -- saves his job) is highly unlikely.

2) Several decent open/likely open jobs, in which Crean can theoretically flourish right away without the pressures/demands of the IU job, such as:

NC State
Arkansas -- Don't forget, they've only made the NCAAs one since Anderson has been there, and Pelphrey was canned after only reaching one NCAA in four seasons.
Mizzou
LSU
And, given expectations/league and infrastructure, my sleeper pick for Crean: Washington Huskies. For as much as he's in-over-his-head at IU, he can do much, much better than Romar in his sleep.

[Revering4Blue]

Sounds like somebody has been reading my posts.:D


If Indiana’s athletic director Fred Glass does finally end his marriage to Crean, there’s one name he should pursue as a replacement above all others: Oklahoma City Thunder head coach Billy Donovan.

Indiana fans owe a debt of gratitude to Crean. He came in and cleaned up a scandal-ridden program while raising it from a steaming pile of rubble to laudable heights. The 2015-16 season — during which the Hoosiers came out of nowhere to win the Big Ten title — was as fun a ride as I’ve ever had watching a team. In fact, entering this season, Crean had won two of the last four Big Ten championships. But surrounding those two magnificent seasons has been a mess. Inconsistency has plagued the program at every level.

While it will depress some Indiana fans, Brad Stevens is almost certainly not leaving the Boston Celtics, but rumors suggest Donovan might be looking to head back to college. He went to Oklahoma City for the opportunity to coach Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook, and one of those guys is gone now. With Westbrook dominating the ball, any semblance of an offensive system has gone out the window and despite his dominant statistics, the Thunder currently sit in seventh place in the Western Conference. While the San Antonio Spurs and Golden State Warriors exist in their current forms, the Thunder have no shot at playing for a championship. Donovan has to be keenly aware of that fact.

http://thebiglead.com/2017/02/12/indiana-must-fire-tom-crean-pursue-billy-donovan/

[Assembly Hall]

Rev,

The rumors that I have seen say that feelers have already been sent out to Billy. How cool would it be to have him at IU with Rick at the 'Ville and Cal at UK? Tobacco Road stand back. The Ohio River Valley wants you!!!!!

But time will tell.

[dubc47834]

Rev,

The rumors that I have seen say that feelers have already been sent out to Billy. How cool would it be to have him at IU with Rick at the 'Ville and Cal at UK? Tobacco Road stand back. The Ohio River Valley wants you!!!!!

But time will tell.

Man Billy would do great at IU. I would love love love to get him on campus. I just don't know if he leaves OKC. I just posted in another thread that he has Westbrook destroying the league, but also just thought about Billy being a college guy. So maybe he isn't a fan of that, who knows tho. All I know is, if we can get Billy, I think he could turn us back into the program we were from the mid 70's thru the early 90's..minus a few years here and there.

[Assembly Hall]

We are #1......

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/indiana/2017/02/16/iu-accept-nit-bid/98007140/

[Boston Red]

We are #1......

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/indiana/2017/02/16/iu-accept-nit-bid/98007140/

Remember the great 1985 NIT Final Four that included Louisville, Indiana and UCLA? No, probably not, because it was the NIT. But it did feature the next two national champions.

[Assembly Hall]

Remember the great 1985 NIT Final Four that included Louisville, Indiana and UCLA? No, probably not, because it was the NIT. But it did feature the next two national champions.

Yes I do, kinda funny how the Cards and Hoosiers seasons mirrored each other that year.

[Assembly Hall]

Anybody see Morgan and McRoberts laughing on the bench as Iowa was salting the game away in OT at the free throw line? That pissed me off.

[Revering4Blue]

Anybody see Morgan and McRoberts laughing on the bench as Iowa was salting the game away in OT at the free throw line? That pissed me off.

Yet more evidence that Crean has totally lost this team.

Injuries or not, it seems doubtful that even the AD (Fred Glass) can put a positive spin on this season and, most importantly, the trajectory of the program, and if he can, then he needs to go, too.

[Hoosier Red]

Anybody see Morgan and McRoberts laughing on the bench as Iowa was salting the game away in OT at the free throw line? That pissed me off.


Yet more evidence that Crean has totally lost this team.

Injuries or not, it seems doubtful that even the AD (Fred Glass) can put a positive spin on this season and, most importantly, the trajectory of the program, and if he can, then he needs to go, too.

I try to not get too worked up over stuff like this. It's not like them being pissed off was going to change the outcome.
That said, there's no doubt it's a bad look.

[Hoosier Red]

My friend has made the arguments he put into this piece to me a number of times.

http://www.crimsoncast.com/2017/02/its-not-the-program-iu-basketball-in-2017-and-beyond/


Look around college basketball and you’ll see an incredibly coach-driven business. Coaches retain control over almost every aspect of their program, from scheduling to recruiting to planning to execution. The right hire will take a program from relative obscurity to national success, or maintain a top program consistently over a long period of time.

[Playadlc]

That's a great piece HR. Agree with all of it.

[Revering4Blue]

My friend has made the arguments he put into this piece to me a number of times.

http://www.crimsoncast.com/2017/02/its-not-the-program-iu-basketball-in-2017-and-beyond/





It has become fashionable for certain segments of the basketball media establishment (both IU-focused and national) to attribute the up-and-down nature of the Crean era at Indiana to a re-ordering of the college basketball landscape. This is basically Sick Boy’s theory from Trainspotting — “Well at one point you’ve got it, then you lose it, and it’s gone forever”. IU was once great in basketball, now it is not great in basketball. And if you think otherwise, you’re a delusional and unrealistic fan trapped in the 1980s.

There is some appeal to this line of thinking. It conveniently positions Crean as an upper-level coach doing the best that can be done, with limited resources compared to places like Duke and Kentucky. It accentuates every success and explains away every failure. And it recasts IU as a plucky underdog, rather than a national basketball powerhouse.

But most people know that IU basketball is not a plucky underdog. Nor is it some decayed giant oak tree being overgrown by younger saplings. No, IU basketball is simply a program that, through a combination of historical errors in managerial judgment, has employed a series of coaches who have not effectively harnessed the power of the program.

Bingo!

[Assembly Hall]

It still boggles my mind that Crean whiffs on the in-state talent.

[chicoruiz]

My favorite basketball quote (I've probably mentioned it here before) is from Jack Hartman, the former Kansas State coach. When asked how his teams won so often against more talented teams, Hartman said (I'm paraphrasing here):

"Well, I guess you and I have different definitions of "talent". You think a "talented" player is someone who can run and jump and shoot. I think a "talented" player is someone who will be where he's supposed to be, and do what he's supposed to do when he's there. So I guess you pick the guys you think are "talented", and I'll pick the guys I think are "talented", and we'll play."


I think Crean (and Sampson before him, for that matter) tends to fall in love with the "running and jumping" talents at the expense of the "knowing what to do on a basketball court" talents. I can see why; he's telling himself that it's easier to teach great athletes to play smart than it is to teach smart players to be great athletes. But you need to be able to actually do that teaching, and for whatever reason, it doesn't happen much at IU lately.

[Hoosier Red]

That's a great piece HR. Agree with all of it.

Yeah, Galen's probably the smartest guy I know and just has an encyclopedic knowledge of basketball history.

[Assembly Hall]

I am seeing unconfirmed reports that IU has reached out to Brad Stevens, Billy Donovan, Archie Miller, and Chris Mack.

[Hoosier Red]

I am seeing unconfirmed reports that IU has reached out to Brad Stevens, Billy Donovan, Archie Miller, and Chris Mack.

If true, good to know they're looking at the right people. Stevens (and Donovan to a lesser extent) are pipe dreams, but if you're going to have pipe dreams, might as well make them good ones.

[Boston Red]

If true, good to know they're looking at the right people. Stevens (and Donovan to a lesser extent) are pipe dreams, but if you're going to have pipe dreams, might as well make them good ones.

The right person isn't on that list.

[Hoosier Red]

The right person isn't on that list.

Forgive me, Who's the right person? There may be other's I'd consider superior candidates after looking deeper into it, but I wouldn't be upset if IU hired any of those four.

[Boston Red]

Stevens and Donovan, of course. IU has to ask those guys and get told no. But the next call should be to Gregg Marshall. Any other third call can only be due to incompetence.

[Hoosier Red]

Stevens and Donovan, of course. IU has to ask those guys and get told no. But the next call should be to Gregg Marshall. Any other third call can only be due to incompetence.
I certainly wouldn't balk at Marshall. The only potential drawbacks I could think off the top of my head are Salary- He's currently paid $3.3 million and of course there will be a great deal of competition for his services, right now Tom Crean is paid 3.16 Million.

Exactly how much would they need to pay in order to get him to switch.

[Boston Red]

It would certainly take $4MM+ to lure Marshall, and it would have to be about more than money, because Wichita could make the money close enough that it wouldn't be a big difference. He may not want to move, but you're not swinging for the fences in your job search if his agent doesn't get a call.

[Assembly Hall]

It would certainly take $4MM+ to lure Marshall, and it would have to be about more than money, because Wichita could make the money close enough that it wouldn't be a big difference. He may not want to move, but you're not swinging for the fences in your job search if his agent doesn't get a call.

I am sure that Marshall is on their list.

[Assembly Hall]

I found this to be a spot on analysis.....

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/217726350/indiana-hoosiers-future-tom-crean-hot-seat

[Razor Shines]

IU wins the B1G tournament. Makes another Sweet 16 run. Crean stays.

j/k j/k

[Assembly Hall]

IU wins the B1G tournament. Makes another Sweet 16 run. Crean stays.

j/k j/k

Actually, that is what I am afraid of!!!!!!!!!

[Revering4Blue]

Actually, that is what I am afraid of!!!!!!!!!

The die is cast (apparently), and that may have provided the impetus for the play lately -- the mission to send Crean out a winner.

We'll see.

[Assembly Hall]

The die is cast (apparently), and that may have provided the impetus for the play lately -- the mission to send Crean out a winner.

We'll see.

That is what I am hearing as well Rev.........one thing for sure the boys played with fire in their shorts tonight, just like they were on a mission.

[Revering4Blue]

That is what I am hearing as well Rev.........one thing for sure the boys played with fire in their shorts tonight, just like they were on a mission.

If they play like this against Wiscy --- a big if --- they can win. This team is obviously better when Morgan is completely healthy as he is now.

[Assembly Hall]

If they play like this against Wiscy --- a big if --- they can win. This team is obviously better when Morgan is completely healthy as he is now.

Well the have played the Badgers tough twice this year.......two games that IU had chances to win. That being said the Hoosiers have struggled against the cheeseheads for quite some time now. They got to bring that fire with them again tonite.

[Hoosier Red]

Well the have played the Badgers tough twice this year.......two games that IU had chances to win. That being said the Hoosiers have struggled against the cheeseheads for quite some time now. They got to bring that fire with them again tonite.

Crean is 2-13 against Wisconsin. It is enough to make you wonder though, if IU gets to the final and loses, does a 21-15 record and neutral court wins over Maryland, Wisconsin, and Iowa get them back to consideration at least?

[texasdave]

sorry. wrong thread.

[Assembly Hall]

Crean is 2-13 against Wisconsin. It is enough to make you wonder though, if IU gets to the final and loses, does a 21-15 record and neutral court wins over Maryland, Wisconsin, and Iowa get them back to consideration at least?

I think so. As of now Joey Brackets has them in the next four out.

[Revering4Blue]

It goes without saying the Hoosiers' NCAA chances, which were slim to begin with, are now done like a fast food steak. I wouldn't be a surprise if "we" are matched up against (or at least placed in the same bracket with) Kelvin Sampson, Devin Davis and the Houston Cougars. That would be interesting.

[Assembly Hall]

Right now I just want to hear an announcement that Crean is no longer the coach of the Hoosiers.

[Hoosier Red]

Right now I just want to hear an announcement that Crean is no longer the coach of the Hoosiers.

I have to think declining to play the NIT game at home points in that direction.

[Assembly Hall]

I have to think declining to play the NIT game at home points in that direction.

The reasoning is what I dont understand.

[redsfanmia]

I think IU would be embarrassed to host a game with the arenas 35% full, if Crean was gone for sure they would have declined the invitation.

[Assembly Hall]

And I just came across this.....

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/columnists/gregg-doyel/2017/03/13/doyel-proof-iu-crean-marriage-isnt-working/99118574/

[redsfanmia]

And I just came across this.....

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/columnists/gregg-doyel/2017/03/13/doyel-proof-iu-crean-marriage-isnt-working/99118574/
I literally read that right after I posted.

[Assembly Hall]

I literally read that right after I posted.

I guess I was just quicker to the draw!!!!!! LOL

[redsfanmia]

I guess I was just quicker to the draw!!!!!! LOL

Do you think TC is really gone?

[Assembly Hall]

Do you think TC is really gone?

From everything I am hearing and seeing yes he is gone. My take is the Admin are just waiting on a place for him to land.

[chicoruiz]

Crean officially gone... press conference at 3pm EDT.

[RedTeamGo!]

Bye bye Archie :(

[Boston Red]

Bye bye Archie :(

Why, is he going to be an assistant to Gregg Marshall? Or do you expect him to take the Wichita State job?

[jimbo]

I really don't think that either Miller or Marshall will be the next Indiana coach.

[redsfanmia]

Sounds like Alford has a good shot at the job, that would bring me back.

[WVRed]

Anyone think Crean is a realistic target for Illinois now?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hillsdale87]

Sounds like Alford has a good shot at the job, that would bring me back.

Please no. Alford has done nothing in his career to indicate that he's even as good as Crean.

[Revering4Blue]

Apparently, the IU powers-that-be are willing to stop screwing around, and are willing to allocate the resources (which are there) to make whomever they hire the highest paid NCAA hoops coach.

In other words, despite the lip service about IU ties, don't be surprised if the next coach is one that IU fans figured that "we' had little chance to land.

[Revering4Blue]

Please no. Alford has done nothing in his career to indicate that he's even as good as Crean.

Agreed,

Short of a deep NCAA tourney run, he shouldn't be seriously considered.

Would the faction of fans clamoring for him be doing so were he not a legendary IU player?

I think not.

[Revering4Blue]

Anyone think Crean is a realistic target for Illinois now?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good question. Never thought about that.

Stranger things have happened, but, IMHO, LSU, Cal and Washington seem more likely. I realize that LSU wants Collins, but I doubt he leaves Evanston for anything less than Duke.

[redsfanmia]

Please no. Alford has done nothing in his career to indicate that he's even as good as Crean.

After leaving emotions out of it you're probably right, he was an absolute mess at Iowa.

[Assembly Hall]

Please no. Alford has done nothing in his career to indicate that he's even as good as Crean.

Not that I am an Alford backer for the job.......but he did lead Manchester University to the title game in DIII. He lost the championship game to a guy by the name of Bo Ryan. He also led the Hawks to two BTT titles, IU doesnt have any.

[WVRed]

Not that I am an Alford backer for the job.......but he did lead Manchester University to the title game in DIII. He lost the championship game to a guy by the name of Bo Ryan. He also led the Hawks to two BTT titles, IU doesnt have any.

The problem I would have with Alford if I were an IU fan is the same that i have if the Reds would ever hire Barry Larkin as manager. If he does underachieve it will be harder to replace him because of his past.

[Assembly Hall]

The problem I would have with Alford if I were an IU fan is the same that i have if the Reds would ever hire Barry Larkin as manager. If he does underachieve it will be harder to replace him because of his past.

Point well taken to a degree. Something to be said about a "legend" getting tarnished by failure as well.

[Hillsdale87]

Agreed,

Short of a deep NCAA tourney run, he shouldn't be seriously considered.

Would the faction of fans clamoring for him be doing so were he not a legendary IU player?

I think not.

Even a deep NCAA Tourney run wouldn't get me interested in Alford. He's been coaching for 20 years, so 1 deep tourney run tells me nothing. He went 15-17 last year, and this year they're really good. That sounds exactly like Crean. He has done a good job recruiting, but recruiting kids to come to LA is not that hard. I think he'd do a good job recruiting Indiana too, but his teams don't play defense, and I don't think he'll do any better than Crean did.

[Hillsdale87]

Not that I am an Alford backer for the job.......but he did lead Manchester University to the title game in DIII. He lost the championship game to a guy by the name of Bo Ryan. He also led the Hawks to two BTT titles, IU doesnt have any.

He has the same problem as Crean. He has never maintained consistency. He won 2 Big 10 championships, but surrounded it with bad years. He's done the same thing at UCLA. He almost got fired last year but saved himself with an amazing recruiting class. That is exactly what Crean did at IU. 3 very good seasons, with 3 bad/mediocre seasons. That won't fly.

And as WV Red said, he's going to be impossible to fire. Too many fans have an emotional connection to Alford. I'd be fine hiring an Indiana guy if it was going to be a slam dunk, like Brad Stevens, but he's not coming here.

[Hillsdale87]

If money is no object, as Fred Glass intimated yesterday, then Alford cannot be the guy. Take Indiana connections out of the equation... If another top job opens up - take Kentucky for instance - where does Alford rank on their list? He's probably not even on it.

He only ended up at UCLA after they got turned down by a ton of other guys first.

[Assembly Hall]

He has the same problem as Crean. He has never maintained consistency. He won 2 Big 10 championships, but surrounded it with bad years. He's done the same thing at UCLA. He almost got fired last year but saved himself with an amazing recruiting class. That is exactly what Crean did at IU. 3 very good seasons, with 3 bad/mediocre seasons. That won't fly.

And as WV Red said, he's going to be impossible to fire. Too many fans have an emotional connection to Alford. I'd be fine hiring an Indiana guy if it was going to be a slam dunk, like Brad Stevens, but he's not coming here.

So would you take Scott Drew?

[bucksfan2]

http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2017/03/16/indiana-hoosiers-tom-crean-fired-coaching-candidates


Gregg Marshall, Wichita State

There are few candidates on the board who could potentially win the way Knight did at Indiana. No one will ever question Marshall’s fire, coaching acumen and ability to identify and develop players. But multiple athletic directors who’ve explored him as a candidate over the years have come away squeamish, as he’s as overbearing as he is talented. (Texas officials didn’t even kick the tires, which should tell you something.) Marshall’s lack of self-awareness would make the jump from the backwoods of the Valley to the fishbowl of Bloomington a potentially untenable leap. Indiana is one of the few places that could pony up the $4 million annual salary likely needed pay Marshall, but if Tom Crean’s personality wore on people here, it’s hard to imagine Marshall would be received better.

One mans take and an interesting article.

If we are bringing up a list of the best coaches in basketball, who would they be? As good of a coach as I think Calipari is, I don't know if his style works at a non blue blood school now. I like K, but dude is long in the tooth. Everyone has their flaws, but money be damned and you can get any coach, who are your top 5?

[Boston Red]

I don't think Marshall lacks self awareness at all. I think he's very self aware. He just doesn't give a [bad word omitted]. Seems like Indiana had a coach like that for about 30 years that they tolerated quite well so long as they were winning big.

Honestly, that take says a lot more about those athletic directors than it does about Marshall.

[Hillsdale87]

So would you take Scott Drew?

He'd be way down my list too. He's done a very good job at Baylor. And he would likely do a good job getting recruits to Indiana. But I don't have much confidence in him as a coach. I think he'd be overmatched in the tournament. I'd rather have Bryce Drew. He's got less experience, and there's more variance than there would be with Scott Drew, but I think he also has a better chance to be great.

I would much rather take a less proven, but up and coming coach, than a coach that has been good but not great for an extended period. To me, Alford and Drew fall into the latter camp. They'll do fine at Indiana, but nothing in their past has indicated that they can get Indiana over the hump. Archie Miller, Chris Holtmann, Chris Collins, and others have not gotten to their level yet, but we don't know what their ceiling is. There is a lot more potential with those guys.

The guy I'm dreaming about is Billy Donovan, and there seems to be a decent amount of confidence among some supposed insiders, who have been correct about some stuff during this Crean ordeal, that we have a very good shot at him. And Donovan's comment yesterday when asked about the IU job was very non-committal. He said he's very committed to doing the best job at OKC "while I'm here".

[WVRed]

He'd be way down my list too. He's done a very good job at Baylor. And he would likely do a good job getting recruits to Indiana. But I don't have much confidence in him as a coach. I think he'd be overmatched in the tournament. I'd rather have Bryce Drew. He's got less experience, and there's more variance than there would be with Scott Drew, but I think he also has a better chance to be great.

I would much rather take a less proven, but up and coming coach, than a coach that has been good but not great for an extended period. To me, Alford and Drew fall into the latter camp. They'll do fine at Indiana, but nothing in their past has indicated that they can get Indiana over the hump. Archie Miller, Chris Holtmann, Chris Collins, and others have not gotten to their level yet, but we don't know what their ceiling is. There is a lot more potential with those guys.

The guy I'm dreaming about is Billy Donovan, and there seems to be a decent amount of confidence among some supposed insiders, who have been correct about some stuff during this Crean ordeal, that we have a very good shot at him. And Donovan's comment yesterday when asked about the IU job was very non-committal. He said he's very committed to doing the best job at OKC "while I'm here".

I don't see Billy Donovan taking it. He turned down Kentucky three times because he didn't want the pressure and dealing with the fan base. IU isn't much different in that regard, and the Big Ten is a lot harder than the SEC.

I think there's a better chance of landing Brad Stevens than Billy Donovan, unless he just absolutely wants to return to the college game.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Were I an IU fan, I'd want my administration to kick the tires on Jay Wright. He'd be a great fit, IMO. Ditto either Miller. (Assuming the money's there, of course, both could well be had.)

I might also be willing to talk to Bill Self. If he doesn't win the championship this year, perhaps he looks to greener pastures.

[Boston Red]

I mean, I guess there's no harm in reaching out to Wright, Self and Sean Miller. No idea why any of them would leave their current jobs for IU, but they can't say yes unless you ask, I guess.

[Hillsdale87]

Fred Glass said that money is no concern, so that's not going to be an issue for any candidate.

[Hillsdale87]

I don't see Billy Donovan taking it. He turned down Kentucky three times because he didn't want the pressure and dealing with the fan base. IU isn't much different in that regard, and the Big Ten is a lot harder than the SEC.

I think there's a better chance of landing Brad Stevens than Billy Donovan, unless he just absolutely wants to return to the college game.

Billy Donovan makes a lot of sense to me. There is a lot of chatter that he's unhappy at OKC, which makes sense. He went there to coach Durant and Westbrook, but with Durant gone, that job is much less attractive. If he's worried about pressure, I don't think he would have taken an NBA job with a team where the expectations are competing for an NBA title every year.

Supposedly Donovan reached out to IU 2 years ago before taking the OKC job, and the IU job is definitely the best job on the market.

[RedTeamGo!]

I don't see Billy Donovan taking it. He turned down Kentucky three times because he didn't want the pressure and dealing with the fan base. IU isn't much different in that regard, and the Big Ten is a lot harder than the SEC.

I think there's a better chance of landing Brad Stevens than Billy Donovan, unless he just absolutely wants to return to the college game.

Brad Stevens? The Brad Stevens that in just a few years has turned one of the most historic NBA teams into a championship contender? Pfffft.

[RedTeamGo!]

Indiana fans: "I think we have a pretty good shot at a coaching staff of Phil Jackson, Red Auerbach, Pat Riley, and Coach K."

[Revering4Blue]

He'd be way down my list too. He's done a very good job at Baylor. And he would likely do a good job getting recruits to Indiana. But I don't have much confidence in him as a coach. I think he'd be overmatched in the tournament. I'd rather have Bryce Drew. He's got less experience, and there's more variance than there would be with Scott Drew, but I think he also has a better chance to be great.

I would much rather take a less proven, but up and coming coach, than a coach that has been good but not great for an extended period. To me, Alford and Drew fall into the latter camp. They'll do fine at Indiana, but nothing in their past has indicated that they can get Indiana over the hump. Archie Miller, Chris Holtmann, Chris Collins, and others have not gotten to their level yet, but we don't know what their ceiling is. There is a lot more potential with those guys.

The guy I'm dreaming about is Billy Donovan, and there seems to be a decent amount of confidence among some supposed insiders, who have been correct about some stuff during this Crean ordeal, that we have a very good shot at him. And Donovan's comment yesterday when asked about the IU job was very non-committal. He said he's very committed to doing the best job at OKC "while I'm here".

I'm leery of hiring anyone from Baylor (given the state of their athletic department), and you may well be correct about Bryce Drew, but leading Baylor --Baylor -- to two Elite 8s and one Sweet 16 is no small feat.

I'd say that Archie Miller has already reached, if not passed, Alford's level, and (once again) if a Hoosier fan cannot see that Miller or Marshall are better hires than Alford, either:

1) He or she still believes that it is still 1987.

2) Possess a basketball IQ that is seriously out of calibration

That stated, it's likely that Jimbo is correct: The next IU coach will be neither Miller nor Marshall, not that they're not home run hires, as they obviously are to anyone with a modicum of hoops IQ; it's just very likely not going to reach that point.

The fact that Glass isn't employing a search firm tells me all I need to know: This coaching search has been going on for quite awhile and He's confident he's going to land his man (and we both know who that is, and it's not Alford) -- this is all a Dog and Pony show (including the lip service about Indiana ties) designed to placate some members of the fanbase to buy time to work out the details in doing so.

Translation: If it's Alford, that means Glass has struck out with at least a handful of candidates, and with the $$$ allocated, that's highly unlikely.

[bucksfan2]

I mean, I guess there's no harm in reaching out to Wright, Self and Sean Miller. No idea why any of them would leave their current jobs for IU, but they can't say yes unless you ask, I guess.

I don't see Wright leaving Villanova for Indiana. Absolutely kick the tires because I think he is one of the best coaches in the game, but he is a Northeastern guy. Stranger things have happened, but I don't see him leaving Nova.

I think if the price was right, Sean Miller would leave Arizona for IU. I don't know why, its just a gut feeling that he would be ok to heading back to the Midwest.

Archie may be the top attainable guy, I don't know enough about what IU has coming back, but if I were Archie, I would make sure that the pieces were in place to win, and win now. Why leave a good job to take the reins of a job that requires rebuilding. If I am Archie I make sure that I am highly compensated, but also don't have to go through a tear down and rebuild. Stay at Dayton if that is the case.

Brad Stevens ain't coming.

Donovan I think would leave. Why would you want to hang around in OKC when you realize that your championship chances went out the window with one fickle player? Russ is a great player, but its Russ and only Russ. I don't see OKC landing any big time superstar in the near future, and with Russ OKC is a 7-8 seed in the Western Conference. Sure you get to the dance, but you have a very little chance to do anything. Donovan going to UK would have been difficult because of the Florida and UK rivalry.

My pecking order would probably be:
Stevens
Wright
Donovan
Sean Miller
Archie Miller
Gregg Marshall

Realizing the top two aren't coming, I would start with Donovan and see where he is at.

[Hillsdale87]

Indiana fans: "I think we have a pretty good shot at a coaching staff of Phil Jackson, Red Auerbach, Pat Riley, and Coach K."

Billy Donovan is really the only candidate that IU fans are mentioning that seems like a stretch. Most fans know that Brad Stevens is not realistic.

[Revering4Blue]

I don't see Wright leaving Villanova for Indiana. Absolutely kick the tires because I think he is one of the best coaches in the game, but he is a Northeastern guy. Stranger things have happened, but I don't see him leaving Nova.

I think if the price was right, Sean Miller would leave Arizona for IU. I don't know why, its just a gut feeling that he would be ok to heading back to the Midwest.

Archie may be the top attainable guy, I don't know enough about what IU has coming back, but if I were Archie, I would make sure that the pieces were in place to win, and win now. Why leave a good job to take the reins of a job that requires rebuilding. If I am Archie I make sure that I am highly compensated, but also don't have to go through a tear down and rebuild. Stay at Dayton if that is the case.

Brad Stevens ain't coming.

Donovan I think would leave. Why would you want to hang around in OKC when you realize that your championship chances went out the window with one fickle player? Russ is a great player, but its Russ and only Russ. I don't see OKC landing any big time superstar in the near future, and with Russ OKC is a 7-8 seed in the Western Conference. Sure you get to the dance, but you have a very little chance to do anything. Donovan going to UK would have been difficult because of the Florida and UK rivalry.

My pecking order would probably be:
Stevens
Wright
Donovan
Sean Miller
Archie Miller
Gregg Marshall

Realizing the top two aren't coming, I would start with Donovan and see where he is at.

Well stated post, just a couple of thoughts:

1) How often does one jump from one top 10 job to another? IMO, Sean Miller would tell IU "Thanks, but no thanks. If you want my advice, hire my brother."

2)You are correct in that people are dismissing IU's chances at Donovan due Billy turning down UK multiple times, which holds little merit. As you pointed out, the UK/FLA rivalry was definitely a factor, as well as the reasoning of (at that time) the Florida program (not the allure of the actual job itself) was in a much better state than UK's.

3) It's a foregone conclusion that Westbrook will bolt after the next season, does Donovan want to undergo a rebuild, especially given that it's unlikely that another blueblood job (especially one with inherent resource/talent proximity advantages of IU) opens up anytime soon.

[jimbo]

I'm kind of surprised that Chris Mack's name hasn't been mentioned. Any speculation as to the why? He played at Evansville I believe, so he has roots in the state. Plus, he's an outstanding coach.

[bucksfan2]

Well stated post, just a couple of thoughts:

1) How often does one jump from one top 10 job to another? IMO, Sean Miller would tell IU "Thanks, but no thanks. If you want my advice, hire my brother."

2)You are correct in that people are dismissing IU's chances at Donovan due Billy turning down UK multiple times, which holds little merit. As you pointed out, the UK/FLA rivalry was definitely a factor, as well as the reasoning of (at that time) the Florida program (not the allure of the actual job itself) was in a much better state than UK's.

3) It's a foregone conclusion that Westbrook will bolt after the next season, does Donovan want to undergo a rebuild, especially given that it's unlikely that another blueblood job (especially one with inherent resource/talent proximity advantages of IU) opens up anytime soon.

1) Bill Self went from Illinois to Kansas. Roy Williams went from Kansas to UNC. Ben Howland went from Pitt to UCLA.
-Illinois wasn't a top 10 job, but on one heck of a roll, same can be said about Pitt when Howland left. Personally if you have a good program humming, and have a chance to win a championship, why leave for a "blueblood" job? Too many times you take a more difficult job, the expectations are higher, and you leave your comfort zone.

2) UK was in flux during the BCG years and Donovan had the last college dynasty to play. Florida is/was a great job, but you have to be willing to accept being second fiddle. I think Cal and UK are a perfect match, UK fans are focused on basketball 100% of the year, and Cal gives them that with on the court play and recruiting. I think someone who wasn't willing to take 5 on and done'rs a year will have a tough time at UK. Cal can have a disappointing year and then all of a sudden go, hey look we are bringing in 3 of the top 5 guys, and the eyeballs get refocused.

3) I don't follow the NBA enough, but Westbrook is a great player, but attaching you sails to that boat is a dicey proposition.

What about Collins for Northwestern?

[bucksfan2]

I'm kind of surprised that Chris Mack's name hasn't been mentioned. Any speculation as to the why? He played at Evansville I believe, so he has roots in the state. Plus, he's an outstanding coach.

He is from Cincinnati, coached at Xavier, has young kids, Xavier is a really good job right now.

I would be surprised to see Mack leave for anything right now.

[Revering4Blue]

1) Bill Self went from Illinois to Kansas. Roy Williams went from Kansas to UNC. Ben Howland went from Pitt to UCLA.
-Illinois wasn't a top 10 job, but on one heck of a roll, same can be said about Pitt when Howland left. Personally if you have a good program humming, and have a chance to win a championship, why leave for a "blueblood" job? Too many times you take a more difficult job, the expectations are higher, and you leave your comfort zone.

2) UK was in flux during the BCG years and Donovan had the last college dynasty to play. Florida is/was a great job, but you have to be willing to accept being second fiddle. I think Cal and UK are a perfect match, UK fans are focused on basketball 100% of the year, and Cal gives them that with on the court play and recruiting. I think someone who wasn't willing to take 5 on and done'rs a year will have a tough time at UK. Cal can have a disappointing year and then all of a sudden go, hey look we are bringing in 3 of the top 5 guys, and the eyeballs get refocused.

3) I don't follow the NBA enough, but Westbrook is a great player, but attaching you sails to that boat is a dicey proposition.

What about Collins for Northwestern?

1) Williams was an outlier, with strong ties to UNC. But I agree with your main point, though. After all, it took Howland a couple of years to get UCLA rolling.

Fun fact: Self was the next choice for UNC in '03 if Williams had, once again, said no.

2) Agreed about the UK/FLA dynamic. Can't blame Cal and Coach K for focusing on one-and-doners, as the object is to accumulate as much talent as possible. Corollary, it would have been asinine for Crean to turn down Noah Vonleh in order to land the solid glue-guy from Evansville, who has dreamed of suiting for IU his entire life. In other words, the holier than thou, we don't need one-and-doners at all at IU attitude held by some members of the fanbase is (at least to a certain extent) unrealistic, IMO.

3) It's a tough row to hoe even if Westbrook remains; I think we agree there.

Personally, I can't see Collins leaving for anything short of Duke in the future, unless he gets wind that he'll be bypassed when Coach K hangs up his whistle.

[Revering4Blue]

A little humor from an IU board in regards to hiring an IU guy --- longtime IU fans will get this:


The obvious choice is Ivan Renko. He's 27 years old, and has been a high-level D1 head coach for 14 years. His record in the NCAA Tournament is 72-3, and he's won 10 NCAA championships. He's never lost to Kentucky or Purdue. And he's part of the IU family and would coach here for free.

[Tom Servo]

I have one very important thing to add to this thread:

http://cdn-s3.si.com/s3fs-public/2014/03/crean1.jpg


That is all.

[redsfanmia]

A little humor from an IU board in regards to hiring an IU guy --- longtime IU fans will get this:

Ivan Renko would have to be in his 40's but he would be a great fit.

[WVRed]

1) Williams was an outlier, with strong ties to UNC. But I agree with your main point, though. After all, it took Howland a couple of years to get UCLA rolling.

Fun fact: Self was the next choice for UNC in '03 if Williams had, once again, said no.

2) Agreed about the UK/FLA dynamic. Can't blame Cal and Coach K for focusing on one-and-doners, as the object is to accumulate as much talent as possible. Corollary, it would have been asinine for Crean to turn down Noah Vonleh in order to land the solid glue-guy from Evansville, who has dreamed of suiting for IU his entire life. In other words, the holier than thou, we don't need one-and-doners at all at IU attitude held by some members of the fanbase is (at least to a certain extent) unrealistic, IMO.

3) It's a tough row to hoe even if Westbrook remains; I think we agree there.

Personally, I can't see Collins leaving for anything short of Duke in the future, unless he gets wind that he'll be bypassed when Coach K hangs up his whistle.

You have to have the right mesh for one and dones to work. The Kentucky team that won it all and even some of their better teams in the Calipari era had upperclassmen that provided solid leadership.

I think the one and done attitude is more a Big Ten thing than a Bloomington thing. When Wisconsin lost to Duke two years ago, Bo Ryan was pretty salty with his comments about how they didn't use rent-a-players. Outside of Ohio State for a couple years, there really isn't a lot of one and dones in the B1G.

The real question is would anyone consider LSU a better job than Northwestern? I don't really know.

[Assembly Hall]

For the guys that dont follow IU.........the Hoosiers have every scholarship player back. They lose nobody, conversely they have three players signed for next year.......somebody has to go.

[redsfanmia]

For the guys that dont follow IU.........the Hoosiers have every scholarship player back. They lose nobody, conversely they have three players signed for next year.......somebody has to go.
Over signing is a CTC trademark.

[redsfanmia]

You have to have the right mesh for one and dones to work. The Kentucky team that won it all and even some of their better teams in the Calipari era had upperclassmen that provided solid leadership.

I think the one and done attitude is more a Big Ten thing than a Bloomington thing. When Wisconsin lost to Duke two years ago, Bo Ryan was pretty salty with his comments about how they didn't use rent-a-players. Outside of Ohio State for a couple years, there really isn't a lot of one and dones in the B1G.

The real question is would anyone consider LSU a better job than Northwestern? I don't really know.

LSU has been to multiple Final Fours and Northwestern has made the Tournament once, LSU plays in the SEC where is the only school that cares about basketball is Kentucky. Pretty sure everyone thinks LSU is the superior job.

[Assembly Hall]

Over signing is a CTC trademark.

That is for sure. I dont know how many defections they will have due to the coaching change, NBA, or even grad transfers.

[redsfanmia]

That is for sure. I dont know how many defections they will have due to the coaching change, NBA, or even grad transfers.

Other than OG who has a legit shot of getting drafted?

[Revering4Blue]

Other than OG who has a legit shot of getting drafted?

It's very early in the process, but most mock drafts have OG out of the first round, as he's deemed too risky until he establishes his health...Bryant is projected as a second-rounder; JBjr is nowhere to found mock draft-wise.

Also, rumors of Hartman declining the option to exhaust his eligibility to come back as an active player. This correlates with the rumors that players have been informed and are fully aware of the next coach's identity, and that the "search" is a Dog and Pony Show designed to buy time until the coach can be announced. Hint: Said coach is going to busy for at least one more month.

My guess: Buh-bye, Priller; Fort Wayne (IPFW) can use you.

[Revering4Blue]

You have to have the right mesh for one and dones to work. The Kentucky team that won it all and even some of their better teams in the Calipari era had upperclassmen that provided solid leadership.

I think the one and done attitude is more a Big Ten thing than a Bloomington thing. When Wisconsin lost to Duke two years ago, Bo Ryan was pretty salty with his comments about how they didn't use rent-a-players. Outside of Ohio State for a couple years, there really isn't a lot of one and dones in the B1G.

The real question is would anyone consider LSU a better job than Northwestern? I don't really know.

Agree 100 per cent with your first paragraph and find it hypocritical that Cal and UK get hammered for utilizing the one-and-done process, while Duke and Coach K (among others) are given a free pass.

Not that I disagree with your take, but Miles Bridges is a certain one-and-doner at MSU, as Zach Randolph was years ago, and I'm sure that I've forgotten others there or elsewhere in the B1G.

Lastly, no question that I agree with redsfanmia that LSU is definitely a better job with a higher ceiling than Northwestern. Whether or not it's a better job than Mizzou is another argument altogether, as you have to figure that Martin should be able to lock down the decent in-state talent. Talent such as Anunoby and Morgan likely would have suited up for Mizzou during the Ricky Frazier/Steve Stipanovich thru Anthony Peeler/Doug Smith eras.

[Assembly Hall]

Not that I disagree with your take, but Miles Bridges is a certain one-and-doner at MSU, as Zach Randolph was years ago, and I'm sure that I've forgotten others there or elsewhere in the B1G.



Eric Gordon....[wink]

[Assembly Hall]

I wonder how many IU fans want Tony Bennett now?

[redsfanmia]

I wonder how many IU fans want Tony Bennett now?

I have always thought the word was Bennett wouldn't come to IU because of the way they treated his sister when she was let go.

[Assembly Hall]

I have always thought the word was Bennett wouldn't come to IU because of the way they treated his sister when she was let go.

Yes, that was part of the reason, but as Rev said somewhere there was also a question of what the severity of the sanctions would be against the program.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Mizzou, for about 25 years, was the second best program in the breadbasket of the country.

They were a packed house and a nightmare for opposing teams.

They can be that again relatively easily. Especially with Porter, Jr., playing and Martin coaching.

That's a solid base to begin recruiting, even at this late date.

[RedTeamGo!]

It's very early in the process, but most mock drafts have OG out of the first round, as he's deemed too risky until he establishes his health...Bryant is projected as a second-rounder; JBjr is nowhere to found mock draft-wise.

Also, rumors of Hartman declining the option to exhaust his eligibility to come back as an active player. This correlates with the rumors that players have been informed and are fully aware of the next coach's identity, and that the "search" is a Dog and Pony Show designed to buy time until the coach can be announced. Hint: Said coach is going to busy for at least one more month.

My guess: Buh-bye, Priller; Fort Wayne (IPFW) can use you.

What coach are you hinting at? Alford?

[Revering4Blue]

What coach are you hinting at? Alford?

Huge hints: Think current NBA coach....and not Brad Stevens.

[RedTeamGo!]

Think NBA....and not Brad Stevens.

Ah, Donovan. I just don't get why he would do that, but I suppose he could retire at Indiana.

[Revering4Blue]

Ah, Donovan. I just don't get why he would do that, but I suppose he could retire at Indiana.

As much as felt all along that IU should pursue him, I felt that they (IU) had a 50-50 chance. But then, I got wind of the $$ floated around and , apparently, Donovan and Westbrook don't get along, and that it's a virtual certainty that Westy bolts after '18, along with the fact that a blueblood job isn't likely to open for awhile, it seems plausible.

[Donder]

Not dreaming big enough. Make it Gregg Popovich. He has roots in the state of Indiana. Or maybe Larry Bird can finally return to IU.

All joking aside, as a Purdue fan Donovan is the only candidate that I think is realistic that scares me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Revering4Blue]

Not dreaming big enough. Make it Gregg Popovich. He has roots in the state of Indiana. Or maybe Larry Bird can finally return to IU.

All joking aside, as a Purdue fan Donovan is the only candidate that I think is realistic that scares me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Great win for the Boilers last night!

With or without, Caleb, with the recruiting class headed to West Lafayette, the Boilermakers aren't going away anytime soon.

Maybe it's just me, but it seems the B1G is a better conference when IU, Purdue and Ohio State are National level factors at once.

[RedTeamGo!]

Great win for the Boilers last night!

With or without, Caleb, with the recruiting class headed to West Lafayette, the Boilermakers aren't going away anytime soon.

Maybe it's just me, but it seems the B1G is a better conference when IU, Purdue and Ohio State are National level factors at once.

I miss Illinois being good as well.

[Hillsdale87]

Not dreaming big enough. Make it Gregg Popovich. He has roots in the state of Indiana. Or maybe Larry Bird can finally return to IU.

All joking aside, as a Purdue fan Donovan is the only candidate that I think is realistic that scares me.


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I think most IU fans see/saw Donovan as a pipe dream, but there's so much smoke from supposed insiders pointing in that direction that we're starting to believe it's possible/likely

[Boston Red]

If it's not Donovan, they better offer Marshall. If they don't, Glass is a moron.

[Hillsdale87]

If it's not Donovan, they better offer Marshall. If they don't, Glass is a moron.

As long as it's not Alford, I'll be happy. Apparently a lot of schools have been hesitant on Marshall because he's not the easiest guy to get along with. And I'm sure his wife didn't help him today by acting like a lunatic at the game today.

[Boston Red]

As long as it's not Alford, I'll be happy. Apparently a lot of schools have been hesitant on Marshall because he's not the easiest guy to get along with. And I'm sure his wife didn't help him today by acting like a lunatic at the game today.

I mean honestly, who cares? If you win and win big, who cares if the guy is hard to get along with? That's some weakness on ADs parts, because there's no bigger guarantee than Marshall winning and winning a lot. If that sort of stupidity keeps Marshall in Wichita, I'd be thrilled, though.

[Hillsdale87]

I mean honestly, who cares? If you win and win big, who cares if the guy is hard to get along with? That's some weakness on ADs parts, because there's no bigger guarantee than Marshall winning and winning a lot. If that sort of stupidity keeps Marshall in Wichita, I'd be thrilled, though.

I agree somewhat, but as a basketball coach at a school like IU, you have to do a lot of glad handing, and Marshall is not the guy to do that. He's also had a few on-court incidents, like one in Canada a couple years ago that don't reflect great on him. And again, his wife had to be escorted out by police after the game today because of her behavior. If you're spending big money, and IU is likely looking at up to $5MM+ potentially, you don't want somebody that's going to be potentially embarrassing. It's a pretty big story on the internet today while he's the coach of Wichita State. It would be everywhere if he was the coach at Indiana.

I'm not saying that I don't want Marshall. He's an amazing coach, and I think he would win a lot at IU, but I understand that there is more for the AD to consider.

[Revering4Blue]

Good to know that at least one former IU player gets it.

12039

[Bourgeois Zee]

I mean honestly, who cares? If you win and win big, who cares if the guy is hard to get along with? That's some weakness on ADs parts, because there's no bigger guarantee than Marshall winning and winning a lot. If that sort of stupidity keeps Marshall in Wichita, I'd be thrilled, though.

In a place like IU, the fishbowl is intense. A wrong move moves public perception and, more importantly, drives recruiting.

A drunk wife yelling obscenities is the price to pay for having an elite coach at Wichita. At IU, where elite coaches come knocking, notsomuch.

Ditto Marshall's own anger issues.

I don't care one way or another and have no dog in this particular fight, but I could totally see IU's hesitancy-- if they have any.

[Boston Red]

Marshall's "anger issues" are extremely overblown (particularly since we're talking about Indiana, making the whole thing comical), but if people want to manufacture a reason to keep Marshall in Wichita, all the better. It's fantastic for the city. If IU pursues Alford instead of Marshall I'll laugh my a** off at them. They'll deserve what they get there.

[Revering4Blue]

Tom Crean off the court: Quiet, random acts of kindness

'He really doesn't want you to know he's doing stuff, which makes it even more amazing.'

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/indiana/2015/08/22/tom-crean-court-quiet-random-acts-kindness/32204753/

[gilpdawg]

Tom Crean off the court: Quiet, random acts of kindness

'He really doesn't want you to know he's doing stuff, which makes it even more amazing.'

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/indiana/2015/08/22/tom-crean-court-quiet-random-acts-kindness/32204753/

Tom Crean is a good man. I hate that he takes so much crap. That said, it was time for a change. I'll root for him wherever he winds up.

[Assembly Hall]

Marshall's "anger issues" are extremely overblown (particularly since we're talking about Indiana, making the whole thing comical), but if people want to manufacture a reason to keep Marshall in Wichita, all the better. It's fantastic for the city. If IU pursues Alford instead of Marshall I'll laugh my a** off at them. They'll deserve what they get there.

I get the gist and I understand. But remember, Knight got fired for those very same anger issues. Now let's FFWD to Crean, he got IU nation in a bunch when members of the squad started getting into trouble with the law. Win or lose, IU doesn't like "black eyes".

[Boston Red]

I get the gist and I understand. But remember, Knight got fired for those very same anger issues.

I mean, sort of. He didn't get fired for those issues while IU was winning. I find it to be an amazing coincidence that he DIDN'T get fired after he threw a chair across the floor or pulled his team off the floor against the Soviets while IU was winning titles and advancing deep in the Tournament, and it just so happened that he got fired when his team hadn't been to a Sweet 16 in six years.

[redsfanmia]

I mean, sort of. He didn't get fired for those issues while IU was winning. I find it to be an amazing coincidence that he DIDN'T get fired after he threw a chair across the floor or pulled his team off the floor against the Soviets while IU was winning titles and advancing deep in the Tournament, and it just so happened that he got fired when his team hadn't been to a Sweet 16 in six years.
Strange coincidence IMO.

[Assembly Hall]

I mean, sort of. He didn't get fired for those issues while IU was winning. I find it to be an amazing coincidence that he DIDN'T get fired after he threw a chair across the floor or pulled his team off the floor against the Soviets while IU was winning titles and advancing deep in the Tournament, and it just so happened that he got fired when his team hadn't been to a Sweet 16 in six years.

Oh, I agree. But in the end his "character" got the best of him.

[Revering4Blue]

With no regrets after Indiana firing, Tom Crean looks ahead to next opportunity

http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2017/03/21/tom-crean-indiana-hoosiers-fired?xid=socialflow_twitter_si

[Boston Red]

He has to regret cutting down the nets after a loss at least a little bit, right?

[Revering4Blue]

Indiana should search for the best coach for the job, not just the best Hoosier

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/news/indiana-hoosiers-basketball-coach-roster-recruiting-candidates-crean-alford/kx2hw6tfbqwe1reh7vsdi3mmi?utm_source=dlvr.it


In the spring of 2007, with John Beilein heading off to coach the Michigan Wolverines, West Virginia needed a basketball coach. It wasn’t going to be easy to find someone capable of replacing someone so gifted, but WVU was fortunate that a similarly talented man who once played for the Mountaineers was likely to be amenable to an opportunity to return home. And so they got Bob Huggins.

He was the best coach West Virginia could have landed, not just the best former Mountaineer. They have reached the NCAA Tournament eight times since and are alive in pursuit of a second Final Four this decade.

In the summer of 2000, North Carolina found itself in the market for a new basketball coach upon the sudden retirement of Bill Guthridge. When Roy Williams declined because he was not ready to leave Kansas, the search became frantic because there was no other Carolina alum who appeared to be ideally suited to the job and the Tar Heel hierarchy prioritized “keeping it in the family.” The administration settled on Matt Doherty, who had spent one season as head coach at Notre Dame.

He was not the best coach Carolina could have landed. They could have had just about anyone they wanted. UNC fired Doherty three years later.

There is a lesson in this for the Indiana Hoosiers.

At last, a member of the National media that gets it.

[Boston Red]

Yes, hire Gregg Marshall and keep enough money in the budget to keep Lynn Marshall in a luxury box for games!

[Razor Shines]

Tom Crean is a good man. I hate that he takes so much crap. That said, it was time for a change. I'll root for him wherever he winds up.

I agree wholeheartedly. It was certainly time to move on, Crean is a good coach, I don't know if he'll ever be a great coach but he sure seems like a great guy. I'm glad he put the pieces of Indiana basketball back together.

[Assembly Hall]

Clifton Moore and Al Durham have requested releases from their LOI's.

[Revering4Blue]

Clifton Moore and Al Durham have requested releases from their LOI's.

No room at the Inn?

[Assembly Hall]

No room at the Inn?

LOL, yeah it is full!!!!!! Funny thing is they also got two other offers out there.

[Hoosier Red]

Marshall's "anger issues" are extremely overblown (particularly since we're talking about Indiana, making the whole thing comical), but if people want to manufacture a reason to keep Marshall in Wichita, all the better. It's fantastic for the city. If IU pursues Alford instead of Marshall I'll laugh my a** off at them. They'll deserve what they get there.

I think Bob Knight's issues would make IU even more sensitive to a coach with "anger issues".
Whether they're overblown or not, they'll certainly be more magnified in Bloomington. God knows it doesn't take much for the national media to bring up Bob Knight when doing an Indiana game.

I don't know how big of a deal Marshall's really are/were, but it should be part of the overall evaluation.
Knight for all his genius, was exhausting to defend. Maybe my perception is a bit skewed as I came on when there was only the anger issues to go along with past glory and no current winning.

If you could give an administrator a rock solid promise that IU would have Knight's best two decade run of success, then I'm sure they'd make the deal with the devil and take the personality too. But it's not a long reach below that level of success where the amount of grief they're willing to put up with outweighs the positives of winning.

[Revering4Blue]

LOL, yeah it is full!!!!!! Funny thing is they also got two other offers out there.

Interesting. Any names floated around?

[Assembly Hall]

Interesting. Any names floated around?

Well Justin Smith is signed for next year. The guys that they have extended offers to are Jordan Tucker and Mark Smith.

[jimbo]

This is coming from a message board, so take for what it is, but I have read it in a couple of places.


There are many rumors bouncing around out there right now. Is Chris Mack headed to Indiana, opening Xavier for Kelsey? Did he truly have a change of heart and wants to return to Winthrop?

https://hoopdirt.com/breaking-umass-cancels-kelsey-press-conference/

Does anyone think this has legs? I felt even before last night's game, that if I was a major college program looking for a head coach, I'd go to Chris Mack before Marshall or both Miller brothers. The guy is just an outstanding coach and doesn't get the national recognition he deserves. At least he hasn't until now.

[Boston Red]

There's no way Kelsey can leave Winthrop, go back to Winthrop and leave Winthrop again all in two weeks' time. I't's a silly rumor. Also, if Mack were to leave, Travis Steele is getting the Xavier job, not Kels.

[Hillsdale87]

Well Justin Smith is signed for next year. The guys that they have extended offers to are Jordan Tucker and Mark Smith.

Jordan Tucker said he's not interested in IU after Crean got fired.

[WVRed]

Thoughts?

http://thebiglead.com/2017/03/24/doug-gottlieb-indiana-steve-alford-is-done/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Revering4Blue]

Thoughts?

http://thebiglead.com/2017/03/24/doug-gottlieb-indiana-steve-alford-is-done/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

'Ent buying it.

[WVRed]

'Ent buying it.

I'm not either but that it comes on the heels of Kentucky and UCLA it is interesting .

[Chip R]

FWIW, I heard on the LeBatard show over lunch that Dickie V thinks Alford to IU is a done deal due to him being an Indiana native and playing at IU.

[RedTeamGo!]

It's going to be Alford. Donovan isn't leaving the NBA unless he's fired.

[Revering4Blue]

Fred Glass isn't banking his future on an emotional hire. If not BD, it will be someone else unless a group of around six or more coaches turn the IU job down. Alford then may be the Hail Mary.

[Hoosier Red]

FWIW, I heard on the LeBatard show over lunch that Dickie V thinks Alford to IU is a done deal due to him being an Indiana native and playing at IU.

Dickie V has as much inside scoop into what Fred Glass is thinking as Robert Montgomery Knight does.

It may end up being Alford(I hope not) but my guess is that anyone who says they have legit sources telling them what's going on is fibbing more than a little.

To steal from IU Beat reporter Zach Osterman; http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/indiana/2017/03/23/insider-what-we-know-ius-coaching-search/99488512/
To date, Fred Glass has 3 big fire/hire decisions; 1) Firing Bill Lynch/Hiring Kevin Wilson, 2)Firing Kevin Wilson/Hiring Tom Allen, and 3)Firing Tom Crean.
How many of those decisions did anyone know about more than an hour before they were announced?

So I'd suggest any rumor that is a "done deal" is potentially good for 1 hour, if it gets past that, the deal isn't as done as reported.

[Assembly Hall]

It's going to be Alford. Donovan isn't leaving the NBA unless he's fired.

I dont think Donovan signed up for the gig he has now. Just sayin'.

[Chip R]

Dickie V has as much inside scoop into what Fred Glass is thinking as Robert Montgomery Knight does.

It may end up being Alford(I hope not) but my guess is that anyone who says they have legit sources telling them what's going on is fibbing more than a little.

To steal from IU Beat reporter Zach Osterman; http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/indiana/2017/03/23/insider-what-we-know-ius-coaching-search/99488512/
To date, Fred Glass has 3 big fire/hire decisions; 1) Firing Bill Lynch/Hiring Kevin Wilson, 2)Firing Kevin Wilson/Hiring Tom Allen, and 3)Firing Tom Crean.
How many of those decisions did anyone know about more than an hour before they were announced?

So I'd suggest any rumor that is a "done deal" is potentially good for 1 hour, if it gets past that, the deal isn't as done as reported.

Yeah. I take it with a large grain of salt. I don't think he has any inside scoop.

[Revering4Blue]

I dont think Donovan signed up for the gig he has now. Just sayin'.


The Thunder have given massive deals to Victor Oladipo (four years, $84 million) and Steven Adams (four years, $104 million). I like both players, but both are complementary pieces. Meanwhile, Westbrook can opt out of his contract after next season. That happens to be right around the time his hometown Los Angeles Lakers’ young core should start being competitive. There is absolutely zero guarantee Russ stays with the Thunder and in its history, OKC has never once lured a top-level free agent.

So after next season Donovan could be stuck with a roster that doesn’t have Westbrook, where Oladipo and Adams are making more than $45 million combined, and Enes Kanter is taking home $18.6 million (if he opts in). Oh, and the team would be devoid of any true stars.

As it stands, no one thinks the Thunder can win a title as currently constructed. Especially coming out of a Western Conference dominated by the Warriors and San Antonio Spurs. Neither of those teams is going away any time soon, and Oklahoma City’s roster could get demonstrably worse after next season.

College basketball is starting to look a lot more attractive isn’t it?

http://thebiglead.com/2017/03/24/indiana-should-be-a-no-brainer-for-billy-donovan/

[Revering4Blue]

Steve Alford to ESPN: I am Absolutely 100 percent not going to Indiana. Staying at UCLA. I am happy. Love it here. Have a great class coming in, and brand-new practice facility. Obviously, I love my alma mater. Committed to UCLA. I am not going to talk to Indiana. I am staying a Bruin."

- Jeff Goodman, ESPN Insider

[redsfanmia]

Hopefully they hire Chris Mack and I know that there has never been a coach deny interest one day and then sign a 7 year contract the next with said school he has zero interest in going to.

[Hoosier Red]

Translation, "No one from Indiana has called me and to be honest I'm a little miffed." :)

[Assembly Hall]

Hopefully they hire Chris Mack and I know that there has never been a coach deny interest one day and then sign a 7 year contract the next with said school he has zero interest in going to.

I just don't see Mack. He has all he wants with X. But I would take him.

[redsfanmia]

I just don't see Mack. He has all he wants with X. But I would take him.

So you're telling me Xavier is a better job than IU? Sounds like it's going to Be Archie Miller.

[Boston Red]

So you're telling me Xavier is a better job than IU? Sounds like it's going to Be Archie Miller.

No, but it might be a better job to Mack.

[WVRed]

It's Archie


http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/19001709/archie-miller-coach-indiana-hoosiers

[RedTeamGo!]

Son of a BEE STING.

Unfortunately, I was correct about Donovan.

[jimbo]

Everyone reporting Archie Miller to Indiana with a 7 year deal.

As a UD fan this just sucks. Once again, the coach speak about loving where he is and never thinking of going anywhere else ends up being falsehood. Guess I'll never learn because I always want to believe. UD probably has the most talented incoming freshmen class in the history of the program, what a cluster. I'm ready for baseball.

Congrats Indiana, you are getting an outstanding young coach.

[Revering4Blue]

It's Archie


http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/19001709/archie-miller-coach-indiana-hoosiers

:beerme::rockband::jump::party:

[RiverRat13]

Everyone reporting Archie Miller to Indiana with a 7 year deal.

As a UD fan this just sucks. Once again, the coach speak about loving where he is and never thinking of going anywhere else ends up being falsehood. Guess I'll never learn because I always want to believe. UD probably has the most talented incoming freshmen class in the history of the program, what a cluster. I'm ready for baseball.

Congrats Indiana, you are getting an outstanding young coach.

I think Archie paid UD a great compliment by waiting until a top job came open. What would have been disrespectful had he jumped for the first "Power 5" opening after the '14 run to the Elite Eight like a lot of guys would have done.