Indiana Basketball Continued AGAIN

[Revering4Blue]

Son of a BEE STING.

Unfortunately, I was correct about Donovan.

That you were. Good call! Regardless of what happens in OKC, Donovan may well never coach in college again.

While I'm obviously ecstatic with landing Archie, I HATE it for Flyer's fans. Nevertheless, Dayton is a GREAT job in its own right, and you're sure to attract a quality coach.

My first target were I Dayton: Princeton's Mitch Henderson

[RedTeamGo!]

RedTeamGo!:


Bye bye Archie :(


Why, is he going to be an assistant to Gregg Marshall? Or do you expect him to take the Wichita State job?



You were saying?

[jimbo]

I think Archie paid UD a great compliment by waiting until a top job came open. What would have been disrespectful had he jumped for the first "Power 5" opening after the '14 run to the Elite Eight like a lot of guys would have done.

I don't think his decision to leave had anything to do with being respectful to the University of Dayton. He did what he did for himself. I'm done buying into coach-speak anymore. The Flyers are graduating multiple seniors and the incoming freshmen are already tweeting as if they are gone. By leaving, he has set the program back several years. The program could end up being where it was when he first got the job. Instead of continuity, the process of being a stepping stone program starts all over again.

Sorry for the ranting. I know this is an Indiana thread and don't want to derail it, but I am just pissed off. I want nothing more than Dayton to pull a Chris Mack/Xavier and meet Indiana in the NCAA tourney down the road and beat him. The grass isn't always greener.

[RedTeamGo!]

I don't think his decision to leave had anything to do with being respectful to the University of Dayton. He did what he did for himself. I'm done buying into coach-speak anymore. The Flyers are graduating multiple seniors and the incoming freshmen are already tweeting as if they are gone. By leaving, he has set the program back several years. The program could end up being where it was when he first got the job. Instead of continuity, the process of being a stepping stone program starts all over again.

Sorry for the ranting. I know this is an Indiana thread and don't want to derail it, but I am just pissed off. I want nothing more than Dayton to pull a Chris Mack/Xavier and meet Indiana in the NCAA tourney down the road and beat him. The grass isn't always greener.

Yup, sounds like Carter is gone.

[Boston Red]

RedTeamGo!:







You were saying?

Indiana settled

[RedTeamGo!]

Indiana settled

For one the best young coaches in the country?

I get you hate Dayton, but pretty much everyone in college basketball agrees Archie is a stud.

[Revering4Blue]

Indiana settled

They hired Alford instead?

[Hillsdale87]

I don't think his decision to leave had anything to do with being respectful to the University of Dayton. He did what he did for himself. I'm done buying into coach-speak anymore. The Flyers are graduating multiple seniors and the incoming freshmen are already tweeting as if they are gone. By leaving, he has set the program back several years. The program could end up being where it was when he first got the job. Instead of continuity, the process of being a stepping stone program starts all over again.

Sorry for the ranting. I know this is an Indiana thread and don't want to derail it, but I am just pissed off. I want nothing more than Dayton to pull a Chris Mack/Xavier and meet Indiana in the NCAA tourney down the road and beat him. The grass isn't always greener.

He tripled his salary. I can understand being disappointed as a Dayton fan, but can you really expect somebody to turn down $4MM per year at an elite school? Even if Dayton beats Indiana in the tournament, the grass is greener because he's making a ton more money.

[jimbo]

The only good thing that comes out of this for UD is that I think it was in his contract that if he leaves, the school he goes to has to give them a home and home series. Hopefully they can wait a few years though because the Flyers will probably be depleted in the near future.

[jimbo]

He tripled his salary. I can understand being disappointed as a Dayton fan, but can you really expect somebody to turn down $4MM per year at an elite school? Even if Dayton beats Indiana in the tournament, the grass is greener because he's making a ton more money.

If he makes it happen, because in this day and age if he doesn't get it done in a couple of seasons the natives grow restless and he ends up coaching at South Florida. But yes, I guess he does have that extra money.

[RedTeamGo!]

As a Dayton fan, I 100% understand Archie taking this job. Blue bloods (even ones like IU with delusional fanbases) don't come calling every year. You have to strike while the iron is hot. I am just glad he stayed through this senior class. I think he loved Scoochie, Pollard, and Davis. Those players graduating made this an easier decision IMHO.

[Hillsdale87]

Indiana settled

They really only settled in the sense that a ton of people thought Billy Donovan was coming. Archie is pretty much the biggest name not in a Power 5 conference, even bigger than Chris Mack. Marshall is a top coach, but there seems to be a reason he's never gotten a top job.

Archie's resume is pretty much the same as Shaka Smart's was, and he was linked to every elite job. I think he's going to do very well at IU.

Of the available names, who would you have considered a better hire?

[Hillsdale87]

If he makes it happen, because in this day and age if he doesn't get it done in a couple of seasons the natives grow restless and he ends up coaching at South Florida. But yes, I guess he does have that extra money.

Yea there is definitely more risk taking the IU job. But he also has unlimited resources (IU has the biggest recruiting budget in NCAA) and the chance to win a championship, something he didn't have at Dayton, even though he had done very well.

And even if he's not up to the job and gets let go, he's making $4MM/year and will take home quite a bit even if fired, so he's set for life.

[Hoosier Red]

They really only settled in the sense that a ton of people thought Billy Donovan was coming. Archie is pretty much the biggest name not in a Power 5 conference, even bigger than Chris Mack. Marshall is a top coach, but there seems to be a reason he's never gotten a top job.

Archie's resume is pretty much the same as Shaka Smart's was, and he was linked to every elite job. I think he's going to do very well at IU.

Of the available names, who would you have considered a better hire?

Boston Red's been high on Marshall throughout. I get that and certainly can't argue with the results but it sounds like he was never really in IU's radar.

[Hillsdale87]

Boston Red's been high on Marshall throughout. I get that and certainly can't argue with the results but it sounds like he was never really in IU's radar.

I'm sure Marshall would have done great, but I would imagine Marshall's age was working against him, as well as his personality. He's 16 years older than Archie, so with Archie you're getting a guy for potentially 30 years. Archie has a lot more Power 5 conference experience, serving as an assistant in the ACC, the Pac-12, and the Big 10. Marshall may or may not be a better coach, but I have more confidence in Archie's ability to recruit.

Also, you're taking a bigger PR risk with Marshall, from his explosive demeanor, to his wife (I read that that was not the first time she's been out of control, but it just doesn't get noticed as much at WSU).

[jimbo]

Yea there is definitely more risk taking the IU job. But he also has unlimited resources (IU has the biggest recruiting budget in NCAA) and the chance to win a championship, something he didn't have at Dayton, even though he had done very well.

And even if he's not up to the job and gets let go, he's making $4MM/year and will take home quite a bit even if fired, so he's set for life.

He's already set for life. He may not have been making $4M a year at UD but it wasn't like the guy was making minimum wage. He was making a very nice salary for a program that isn't in one of the power conferences and pretty much had a job there for life. Let's not make it like with this new position he is suddenly going to become a millionaire. He already was one.

I'm guessing it had more to do with the perception that he will have a better chance of winning a championship at IU rather than UD.

[RedTeamGo!]

He's already set for life. He may not have been making $4M a year at UD but it wasn't like the guy was making minimum wage. He was making a very nice salary for a program that isn't in one of the power conferences and pretty much had a job there for life. Let's not make it like with this new position he is suddenly going to become a millionaire. He already was one.

I'm guessing it had more to do with the perception that he will have a better chance of winning a championship at IU rather than UD.

Man, I'm sad too, but $4 mil a year compared to even $2 mil a year is a pretty huge difference.

[Assembly Hall]

Welcome to Bloomington Archie.........glad to have ya.

I sympathize for the Dayton fans, but as an Indiana guy that has ties to Butler, their coaches got pillaged too. You guys will survive just as the Dawgs did.

[gilpdawg]

I just don't see Mack. He has all he wants with X. But I would take him.
X isn't a stepping stone anymore. They're a contender every year in a top 6 league. This isn't the A-10 or Horizon League.

Anyway, I'm happy with the Miller hire. I wanted either him or Marshall from the beginning.

[gilpdawg]

The only good thing that comes out of this for UD is that I think it was in his contract that if he leaves, the school he goes to has to give them a home and home series. Hopefully they can wait a few years though because the Flyers will probably be depleted in the near future.
I believe I read that while that was the case with Gregory, it isn't the case for Miller.

[Boston Red]

For one the best young coaches in the country?

I get you hate Dayton, but pretty much everyone in college basketball agrees Archie is a stud.

He's very good. Marshall is just better. Good for those of us who live in Wichita.

[Razor Shines]

Whew, glad its not Alford. Archie's a great hire.

[WVRed]

That you were. Good call! Regardless of what happens in OKC, Donovan may well never coach in college again.

While I'm obviously ecstatic with landing Archie, I HATE it for Flyer's fans. Nevertheless, Dayton is a GREAT job in its own right, and you're sure to attract a quality coach.

My first target were I Dayton: Princeton's Mitch Henderson

I'd take a look at John Brennan from Northern Kentucky. He's done a remarkable job in Florence going from division 2 to the Horizon League and making the tournament in first year of eligibility.

The tallest player on the roster was 6'7 and could shoot the three.

[Revering4Blue]

X isn't a stepping stone anymore. They're a contender every year in a top 6 league. This isn't the A-10 or Horizon League.

Anyway, I'm happy with the Miller hire. I wanted either him or Marshall from the beginning.

Not only that, IMO, "X" is one of the top jobs in a power conference. It's less and less likely in today's landscape that a coach in Mack's position (especially given his ties to the city) would leave, even for a top-tier job, as they can get seriously compete for NCAA championships right where they are.

Corollary, judging from various message-board reactions to the hire of Miller (IU and otherwise), I have to question the knuckleheads out there who claim that IU hiring a coach from a mid-major conference -- as opposed to a coach from a power-conference -- serves as further proof that IU has fallen far beyond Elite status as a program; it's ridiculous (or should be) to anyone with a functioning brain cell....Cal was hired at UK from Memphis, and, of course, Sean Miller from then-mid-major, Xavier to Arizona, to name a couple.




Whew, glad its not Alford. Archie's a great hire.

It still amazes me just how many people, especially those in the National media, fell for the Alford is IU's prime target / Alford is the favored choice of the IU fans narrative.

[Revering4Blue]

I'd take a look at John Brennan from Northern Kentucky. He's done a remarkable job in Florence going from division 2 to the Horizon League and making the tournament in first year of eligibility.

The tallest player on the roster was 6'7 and could shoot the three.

Yes, Brennan, too, would be a great hire, IMO.

FWIW, it's very early in the process, but Dane Fife's name has been floated about for the Dayton job. Of course, the last time Dayton hired a Tom Izzo assistant, the fans were not unhappy to see Gregory leave for Georgia Tech, so there's that.

[Razor Shines]

Not only that, IMO, "X" is one of the top jobs in a power conference. It's less and less likely in today's landscape that a coach in Mack's position (especially given his ties to the city) would leave, even for a top-tier job, as they can get seriously compete for NCAA championships right where they are.

Corollary, judging from various message-board reactions to the hire of Miller (IU and otherwise), I have to question the knuckleheads out there who claim that IU hiring a coach from a mid-major conference -- as opposed to a coach from a power-conference -- serves as further proof that IU has fallen far beyond Elite status as a program; it's ridiculous (or should be) to anyone with a functioning brain cell....Cal was hired at UK from Memphis, and, of course, Sean Miller from then-mid-major, Xavier to Arizona, to name a couple.





It still amazes me just how many people, especially those in the National media, fell for the Alford is IU's prime target / Alford is the favored choice of the IU fans narrative.

Man, friends on my Facebook badly wanted Alford. I would ask them to explain to me how Alford is an upgrade over Crean and the closest thing I got to an argument was his winning % at New Mexico, which means little. It's Knight devotees who thought Alford would bring back the "you member" days. I'm glad Glass went against that segment of the fan base, whatever that percentage is.


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[Revering4Blue]

Man, friends on my Facebook badly wanted Alford. I would ask them to explain to me how Alford is an upgrade over Crean and the closest thing I got to an argument was his winning % at New Mexico, which means little. It's Knight devotees who thought Alford would bring back the "you member" days. I'm glad Glass went against that segment of the fan base, whatever that percentage is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Dan Dakich, on his radio show, was pushing the "We need an IU guy / Alford's our guy" narrative. But I have to wonder if he was doing that just to generate debate/phone calls/listeners/publicity.

My guess is yes to all the above.

[WVRed]

I just wonder if Alford was the guy at the top of the list. Seems like once Gottlieb said it was a "done deal" which basically forced Alford into publicly denying interest and IU moved rather quickly in naming Archie Miller coach.

I do think IU dodged a major bullet in not hiring Alford though. I think it would have been JTIII at Georgetown bad in terms of living off nostalgia.


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[Assembly Hall]

I just wonder if Alford was the guy at the top of the list. Seems like once Gottlieb said it was a "done deal" which basically forced Alford into publicly denying interest and IU moved rather quickly in naming Archie Miller coach.

I do think IU dodged a major bullet in not hiring Alford though. I think it would have been JTIII at Georgetown bad in terms of living off nostalgia.


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I would be hard pressed to think Alford was even a choice. IU didn't reach out the last time, why would they now? Stevie, unlike what the talking heads think, is not very well liked in Hoosier Nation as a person. He is an arrogant, pompous prick.

[WVRed]

I would be hard pressed to think Alford was even a choice. IU didn't reach out the last time, why would they now? Stevie, unlike what the talking heads think, is not very well liked in Hoosier Nation as a person. He is an arrogant, pompous prick.

Sounds like Travis Ford at Kentucky.

[Assembly Hall]

Sounds like Travis Ford at Kentucky.

Perhaps, I dont really know the Ford story........but could tell you a lot about Alford.

[Revering4Blue]

I would be hard pressed to think Alford was even a choice. IU didn't reach out the last time, why would they now? Stevie, unlike what the talking heads think, is not very well liked in Hoosier Nation as a person. He is an arrogant, pompous prick.

Per credible sources, He wasn't, and IU did NOT reach out to SA. However, SA's camp reached out to IU fairly early in the process and were informed that SA was not close to the first choice. And, due to those developments, in addition to the negative reactions by IU fans/alumni/powers-that-be (partially inspired by the Pierre Pierce incident -- which I will not discuss, as this convo will likely become a Religious/Political conversation), SA's camp informed IU that SA isn't interested in the IU job, even if others were to decline the job.

Also, per a credible source, contrary to popular belief, the Donovan to IU rumor had significant legs at one time -- I was told by a credible donor that the IU plane had been to Oklahoma City and back to Btown at least four times. Donovan, for whatever reason(s), decided ultimately to stay put, and Glass moved fast to secure MIller, who, all things considered if you're viewing this as a long term hire, was the best choice, anyway.

[gilpdawg]

Dan Dakich, on his radio show, was pushing the "We need an IU guy / Alford's our guy" narrative. But I have to wonder if he was doing that just to generate debate/phone calls/listeners/publicity.

My guess is yes to all the above.

I love Dan's show, but he's fulla crap half of the time. But I think IU people view him kind of the same way a lot of Reds fans view Marty. They take him seriously. Dan doesn't even take it seriously.


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[bucksfan2]

Just a couple of thoughts here from an OSU fan.

I think Archie was a good hire, but I don't think he was a home run hire. I don't think he will be in over his head and stepping from UD to IU is a proper jump. I do think IU settled, I don't think they got one of the best coaches on the market. Let me be clear by this, most coaches in the game should have been on the market if IU is a blue blood like they think they are.

I think Donavan will coach in the collegiate ranks again, I wonder if IU just wasn't the right job for him. I have heard, loosely I will admit by Beau Bishop, that if Thad is gone, Donavan will be the first guy they reach out to. But I think Donavan unlike Stevens is going back to college. Stevens took over a job at the bottom and has been their through their rise, and probably have another handful of years of competing, longer if they do things right. Donavan's on a sinking ship being controlled by Westbrook and only Westbrook. Without Westbrook they are a bottom 5 team, but with Westbrook they are good enough to make the playoffs and stay out of the lottery.

[Hillsdale87]

Also, per a credible source, contrary to popular belief, the Donovan to IU rumor had significant legs at one time -- I was told by a credible donor that the IU plane had been to Oklahoma City and back to Btown at least four times. Donovan, for whatever reason(s), decided ultimately to stay put, and Glass moved fast to secure MIller, who, all things considered if you're viewing this as a long term hire, was the best choice, anyway.

I got a text on Friday night from a family member connected to somebody high up at IU that IU was going to announce the next coach on Saturday, and that Billy Donovan had been on campus earlier that day. He then texted me Saturday morning around 9 with more info, telling me that it wasn't going to be Donovan, but that it would be a coach whose team played in the tournament this year, but his connection wouldn't tell him who it was. So of the 3 things he told me, 2 turned out to be completely accurate. Based on that, I'm inclined to believe that Donovan was at IU Friday morning, no matter how much Donovan denies that he ever had interest.

[Hillsdale87]

I think Archie was a good hire, but I don't think he was a home run hire. I don't think he will be in over his head and stepping from UD to IU is a proper jump. I do think IU settled, I don't think they got one of the best coaches on the market. Let me be clear by this, most coaches in the game should have been on the market if IU is a blue blood like they think they are.


I've seen this a lot, but I disagree. Archie was my #2 choice, and that was only because I thought Donovan might be a realistic possibility based on the rumors. Stevens wasn't coming back. Apparently Donovan didn't want the job. So, of college coaches not already at elite programs, who was out there? IU wasn't interested in Alford and didn't seem to be interested in Marshall. Archie has been the hot name for every job that's come open, but he kept turning them down waiting for a really great job to open up.

People are criticizing IU for getting a coach from a mid-major, but Archie easily could have gotten a job with a middle of the pack Power 5 team 2 years ago, but he chose not to. If IU was hiring a coach from Tennessee/Alabama/Arizona State, would this seem like more of a slam dunk? Because Archie likely could have had any of those jobs if he had wanted them.

[Revering4Blue]

Just a couple of thoughts here from an OSU fan.

I think Archie was a good hire, but I don't think he was a home run hire. I don't think he will be in over his head and stepping from UD to IU is a proper jump. I do think IU settled, I don't think they got one of the best coaches on the market. Let me be clear by this, most coaches in the game should have been on the market if IU is a blue blood like they think they are.

Glass feels as I do that Archie is not only one of the best young coaches in the game, but one of the best coaches in the game, period. Many believed that about Jay Wright (then at Hofstra) and Sean Miller (then at Xavier), and they were proven to be correct.


I think Donavan will coach in the collegiate ranks again, I wonder if IU just wasn't the right job for him. I have heard, loosely I will admit by Beau Bishop, that if Thad is gone, Donavan will be the first guy they reach out to. But I think Donavan unlike Stevens is going back to college. Stevens took over a job at the bottom and has been their through their rise, and probably have another handful of years of competing, longer if they do things right. Donavan's on a sinking ship being controlled by Westbrook and only Westbrook. Without Westbrook they are a bottom 5 team, but with Westbrook they are good enough to make the playoffs and stay out of the lottery.

There is one major counter-argument to Donovan returning to college: His GM is Sam Presti, one of the best GMs in the game, who has fleeced virtually everyone via trades, and drafts well.We'll never know for sure, but my guess is that Presti sold Donovan on a vision post Westbrook -- if they trade him, they'll likely get a King's ransom if they don't wait too long.

We'll see.

[Boston Red]

Glass feels as I do that Archie is not only one of the best young coaches in the game, but one of the best coaches in the game, period.


I don't really see it, personally. I think he's good, but I haven't really seen evidence that he's great. He certainly benefited from following the awful Brian Gregory at Dayton, but I feel like Dayton is a place that a good coach should win. Miller got Dayton on a nice run to the Elite 8 as an 11 seed one year, which was impressive, but other than that I really didn't see him do anything particularly special at Dayton. What was the best seed he ever had at Dayton, a 7?

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Dayton hires a new coach who has as much or more success (once he cleans up a roster that's likely to be a problem next year due to Miller's departure).

Also, Arizona fans might not agree with your assessment of Sean being one of the best coaches in the game. They've been killing him on Arizona boards for not making it to the Final Four yet.

[Revering4Blue]

I don't really see it, personally. I think he's good, but I haven't really seen evidence that he's great. He certainly benefited from following the awful Brian Gregory at Dayton, but I feel like Dayton is a place that a good coach should win. Miller got Dayton on a nice run to the Elite 8 as an 11 seed one year, which was impressive, but other than that I really didn't see him do anything particularly special at Dayton. What was the best seed he ever had at Dayton, a 7?

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Dayton hires a new coach who has as much or more success (once he cleans up a roster that's likely to be a problem next year due to Miller's departure).

Also, Arizona fans might not agree with your assessment of Sean being one of the best coaches in the game. They've been killing him on Arizona boards for not making it to the Final Four yet.

Future UD coach success is irrelevant in regards to Archie Miller's tenure at IU. We're talking about Dayton, which is a better job, or at least as good as several Power 5 jobs, it's not some run-of-the -mill mid-major school. I couldn't care less about Miller's best Flyer NCAA seed; one year he had only seven scholarship players, almost perennially fielded undersized teams. Hell, his center passed away in May, for cripes sakes.

As for Sean Miller -- and one can actually present a logical argument that his brother is actually a better bench coach --ask the "Zona fans how many times enormously talented Lute Olsen-coached teams fell short of the Sweet 16. In fact, the joke at one time was: Lute Olsen opened a bar that produced a high customer turnover because every one was out the door after one round.:D

Miller's script at "Zona has yet to be completed.

[Boston Red]

I agree Dayton is a good job. That's why I wasn't all that impressed with what Miller did there. I'm sure he'll be fine at IU, but I certainly don't see him as a can't miss, no brainer. Time will tell.

[bucksfan2]

Dayton is what Xavier was before it left the A10. I think they have a built in advantage over every single other A10 team due to fan support and facilities. They have a very loyal alumni and its the only thing happening in Dayton during the winter. I will throw this one caveat in there that I believe relegates Dayton to a "second tier" team, it would be very, very, very difficult to build a team that had the ability to win a national championship. I think the biggest difference between the haves and have not's in college today, is the haves if they make the right moves can win a NCAA championship, the have nots, if they make all the right moves can make it to the Sweet 16 or Elite 8.

The viewpoint I look at it is from an OSU viewpoint. Granted its a different sport, but if OSU had to hire a new football coach an went for a guy like PJ Fleck I would be somewhat disappointed. Not that I didn't think he was a good, young coach, just that its a big risk for a "blue blood" program to take on a young and rising coach.

[Assembly Hall]

Just a couple of thoughts here from an OSU fan.

I think Archie was a good hire, but I don't think he was a home run hire. I don't think he will be in over his head and stepping from UD to IU is a proper jump. I do think IU settled, I don't think they got one of the best coaches on the market. Let me be clear by this, most coaches in the game should have been on the market if IU is a blue blood like they think they are.

And just who exactly were they supposed to get to make it a "home run" hire? Stevens or Donovan? Take those two guys out of the equation and who do you got?

[Sea Ray]

I'd take a look at John Brennan from Northern Kentucky. He's done a remarkable job in Florence going from division 2 to the Horizon League and making the tournament in first year of eligibility.

The tallest player on the roster was 6'7 and could shoot the three.

NKU isn't exactly in Florence. It's in Highland Heights

[Boston Red]

And just who exactly were they supposed to get to make it a "home run" hire? Stevens or Donovan? Take those two guys out of the equation and who do you got?

Gregg Marshall. 100% sure thing.

[Assembly Hall]

Gregg Marshall. 100% sure thing.

Let's back up the bus and look at the past 4 coaches IU has had. Knight, for all his winning, was a callous and angry man. When he stopped making deep tourney runs.....the "love affair" was over. Mike Davis led them to a championship game but yet he whined about racial issues. Kelvin Sampson......he just couldn't keep his hand out of the cookie jar. 'Nuff said about him. That brings us to Crean. By all accounts a great guy. But yet he had trouble running the asylum.

Now that brings us to your guy. Marshall. Win or not. I dont think Bloomington wanted another headache.

[Revering4Blue]

Let's back up the bus and look at the past 4 coaches IU has had. Knight, for all his winning, was a callous and angry man. When he stopped making deep tourney runs.....the "love affair" was over. Mike Davis led them to a championship game but yet he whined about racial issues. Kelvin Sampson......he just couldn't keep his hand out of the cookie jar. 'Nuff said about him. That brings us to Crean. By all accounts a great guy. But yet he had trouble running the asylum.

Now that brings us to your guy. Marshall. Win or not. I dont think Bloomington wanted another headache.

Plus, Marshall is 54, another coaching search would be needed before you know it. No thanks.
I would have been ecstatic with Marshall. but Miller has a higher ceiling. I tend to believe that marshall's style resonates better with under the radar recruits, and I question if his personality will work with four or five star recruits. Banking solely on diamonds-in-the -rough isn't a sustainable model for IU; this isn't Nebraska.

[Revering4Blue]

Dayton is what Xavier was before it left the A10. I think they have a built in advantage over every single other A10 team due to fan support and facilities. They have a very loyal alumni and its the only thing happening in Dayton during the winter. I will throw this one caveat in there that I believe relegates Dayton to a "second tier" team, it would be very, very, very difficult to build a team that had the ability to win a national championship. I think the biggest difference between the haves and have not's in college today, is the haves if they make the right moves can win a NCAA championship, the have nots, if they make all the right moves can make it to the Sweet 16 or Elite 8.

The viewpoint I look at it is from an OSU viewpoint. Granted its a different sport, but if OSU had to hire a new football coach an went for a guy like PJ Fleck I would be somewhat disappointed. Not that I didn't think he was a good, young coach, just that its a big risk for a "blue blood" program to take on a young and rising coach.

Tressel, though wildly successful, didn't come from a "big-time" program.

[Boston Red]

I dont think Bloomington wanted another headache.

Marshall has caused exactly 0 headaches here. Other than hangover headaches from celebrating all the winning.

Again, I'm thrilled IU didn't look this way. Just think it's a big mistake.

[RedTeamGo!]

Meh, it's not the Marshall headache, it's because Archie has a much higher ceiling.

[RedTeamGo!]

I agree Dayton is a good job. That's why I wasn't all that impressed with what Miller did there. I'm sure he'll be fine at IU, but I certainly don't see him as a can't miss, no brainer. Time will tell.

4 straight tourney appearances including an elite 8 run at UD is very impressive to us UD fans. What Brian Gregory did was unimpressive.

Also, the class Miller was bringing in next year was expected to be (by far) the best recruiting class in UD history.

[bucksfan2]

And just who exactly were they supposed to get to make it a "home run" hire? Stevens or Donovan? Take those two guys out of the equation and who do you got?

Here is where I am at, especially if IU is a "blue blood" program. You can take the peer programs and coaches there and pretty much dismiss them. Then take the guys a little older in the tooth and remove them. Once you do that, IU should be able to target a huge group of coaches. Here are some guys I would think IU could pry away from their current programs or at least checked interest.

Mike White
Dana Altman
Jay Wright
Gregg Marshall
Billy Donovan
Chris Mack

And I am sure there are other top notch coaches out there that I am missing. I guess what surprised me a little bit is the quickness that Miller was signed. He wasn't going anywhere, no sense in not kicking the tires of some of the top coaches.

Ask yourself this, would UK, Duke, UNC, Kansas, be happy with this hire? IU fancies themselves in that company. Like I said, I think Archie was a good hire, I just don't think he was a great hire.

[Hillsdale87]

Gregg Marshall. 100% sure thing.

This is conjecture. IU didn't even talk to him. It wasn't about not being able to pull in Gregg Marshall. They just wanted Archie

[Boston Red]

Meh, it's not the Marshall headache, it's because Archie has a much higher ceiling.

Completely disagree. As a matter of fact, I would not be a bit surprised if Archie is not able to accomplish as much at IU as Marshall already has at friggin Wichita State.

[Boston Red]

This is conjecture. IU didn't even talk to him. It wasn't about not being able to pull in Gregg Marshall. They just wanted Archie

Of course. No one said they couldn't pull in Marshall. As a matter of fact, I'm pretty certain they could have had him if they wanted him. I just think wanting Archie over him will turn out to be a mistake.

We'll know soon enough.

[Hillsdale87]

Completely disagree. As a matter of fact, I would not be a bit surprised if Archie is not able to accomplish as much at IU as Marshall already has at friggin Wichita State.

Archie took Dayton, with a 7 man rotation and a max height of 6'6", farther in the NCAA tournament than Crean ever took Indiana. Archie's accomplishments at Dayton are not that different from Marshall's at Wichita State.

Yes, Marshall is a great coach. But based on the overwhelmingly positive reviews Archie has gotten from media and fellow coaches, I don't think many would agree that Marshall was objectively more of a slam dunk than Archie.

[Hillsdale87]

Completely disagree. As a matter of fact, I would not be a bit surprised if Archie is not able to accomplish as much at IU as Marshall already has at friggin Wichita State.

Also, Archie is 38. Marshall is 54. Archie definitely has a higher ceiling in that he has the opportunity to be a great coach for the next 25 - 30 years, whereas Marshall is looking at a max of 15 more years, but more likely 10.

[Revering4Blue]

Here is where I am at, especially if IU is a "blue blood" program. You can take the peer programs and coaches there and pretty much dismiss them. Then take the guys a little older in the tooth and remove them. Once you do that, IU should be able to target a huge group of coaches. Here are some guys I would think IU could pry away from their current programs or at least checked interest.

Mike White
Dana Altman
Jay Wright
Gregg Marshall
Billy Donovan
Chris Mack

And I am sure there are other top notch coaches out there that I am missing. I guess what surprised me a little bit is the quickness that Miller was signed. He wasn't going anywhere, no sense in not kicking the tires of some of the top coaches.

Ask yourself this, would UK, Duke, UNC, Kansas, be happy with this hire? IU fancies themselves in that company. Like I said, I think Archie was a good hire, I just don't think he was a great hire.

If aforementioned team message-boards/team oriented web sites are any indication, yes, they most certainly would. Hyperbole, perhaps, but some (non IU fans) believe that IU maywell have hired the next Coach K.

IU more than "checked interest" with Donovan.

Marshall vs. Miller has been debated here ad nauseam.

Altman is 58 years old and already coaching a program in a conference in which he has a legitimate shot at attracting top-flight talent and winning it all.

See above (minus ages) for both Mack and Wright, who are both firmly planted with ties to their respective homes.

White, so far, hasn't proven that he is any better than Archie Miller, who, actually sports a better resume than White.

This isn't football, which is wholly poll/power ranking based, and requires several more players/depth to have a shot at a National Championship.

John Mackovic said it best when he left Illinois for Texas in that a Texas team in Football with an identical record with Illinois will always be ranked significantly higher because it's Texas, not Illinois. The same isn't true basketball wise, for example, with Villanova, Oregon and Xavier in relation to IU and UK. Coaches like Mack, Wright and Altman have no real reason to jump to a "blueblood" because they can -- and have, in the case of Wright -- get it done where they are.

[Boston Red]

Archie's accomplishments at Dayton are not that different from Marshall's at Wichita State.


Agree to disagree. I think Marshall's accomplishments at WSU objectively dwarf what Archie has done at Dayton, and that's not a knock on Archie. Plus Dayton >>>>>> Wichita State

[Hillsdale87]

Here is where I am at, especially if IU is a "blue blood" program. You can take the peer programs and coaches there and pretty much dismiss them. Then take the guys a little older in the tooth and remove them. Once you do that, IU should be able to target a huge group of coaches. Here are some guys I would think IU could pry away from their current programs or at least checked interest.

Mike White
Dana Altman
Jay Wright
Gregg Marshall
Billy Donovan
Chris Mack

And I am sure there are other top notch coaches out there that I am missing. I guess what surprised me a little bit is the quickness that Miller was signed. He wasn't going anywhere, no sense in not kicking the tires of some of the top coaches.

Ask yourself this, would UK, Duke, UNC, Kansas, be happy with this hire? IU fancies themselves in that company. Like I said, I think Archie was a good hire, I just don't think he was a great hire.

Wright and Donovan would obviously be slam dunk hires, but it's also not surprising that they would have turned IU down. They've both turned down elite programs in the past, so I don't think this reflects on the quality of the IU job.

Of the others...

-Altman is 58. I would guess his age takes him out of the running.
-Marshall is 54. Not easy to work with. Probably not somebody the boosters were excited to work with. Too similar of a personality to Crean considering the administration was going in the opposite direction.
-White appears to be very good, but he hasn't proven any more than Archie, less actually. He's made 1 NCAA Tournament.
-Mack is also very good, but most people consider him on the same level as Archie. And IU clearly wasn't very interested in him because they didn't bother waiting for X to be eliminated to have the chance to interview him.

So maybe IU checked interest on these guys, but I don't think there's any reason they necessarily would have been bigger name hires than Archie. Of these 4 + Archie, I think it comes down to preference, and IU obviously preferred Archie.

Edit: I see Revering4Blue had already posted all these thoughts. Ha

[Ohayou]

I'm not a huge NBA guy myself, but Donovan/Stevens have two of the best gigs in the league. Not really sure why their names were being floated around at all. With that said, though, I think Miller is a perfect fit for IU. If I had to guess, I'd say Kevin Kuwik will take over for him at Dayton. Hiring from within is the best thing to do, IMO.

[Hillsdale87]

Agree to disagree. I think Marshall's accomplishments at WSU objectively dwarf what Archie has done at Dayton, and that's not a knock on Archie. Plus Dayton >>>>>> Wichita State

Is Dayton better than Wichita State? Marshall was getting paid $2MM+ more than Archie. The Koch brothers give a lot of money to the school, so resources are not an issue. I don't know what the athletic budget for each school is like, but Wichita State has to be one of the top mid-major schools from a resource standpoint.

[Revering4Blue]

Wright and Donovan would obviously be slam dunk hires, but it's also not surprising that they would have turned IU down. They've both turned down elite programs in the past, so I don't think this reflects on the quality of the IU job.

Of the others...

-Altman is 58. I would guess his age takes him out of the running.
-Marshall is 54. Not easy to work with. Probably not somebody the boosters were excited to work with. Too similar of a personality to Crean considering the administration was going in the opposite direction.
-White appears to be very good, but he hasn't proven any more than Archie, less actually. He's made 1 NCAA Tournament.
-Mack is also very good, but most people consider him on the same level as Archie. And IU clearly wasn't very interested in him because they didn't bother waiting for X to be eliminated to have the chance to interview him.

So maybe IU checked interest on these guys, but I don't think there's any reason they necessarily would have been bigger name hires than Archie. Of these 4 + Archie, I think it comes down to preference, and IU obviously preferred Archie.

Edit: I see Revering4Blue had already posted all these thoughts. Ha

Great minds think alike, and it's a safe bet that others -- and not just IU fans -- perusing this board had/have thoughts that mirrored ours in regards to the subject.

[Boston Red]

Marshall wasn't getting paid $2 MM more than Archie until he took his team to the Final Four, then had an undefeated regular season, then beat Kansas in the NCAA Tournament, then had a suitor willing to pay him over $4 million a year. The Kochs (okay, really just Charles) have been generous to WSU, but they're not paying much of that $3.5 million salary. And David Koch is paying none of it, because he lives in NYC and doesn't really give a damn about Wichita.

[Revering4Blue]

I'm not a huge NBA guy myself, but Donovan/Stevens have two of the best gigs in the league. Not really sure why their names were being floated around at all. With that said, though, I think Miller is a perfect fit for IU. If I had to guess, I'd say Kevin Kuwik will take over for him at Dayton. Hiring from within is the best thing to do, IMO.

Interesting that VCU is, once again, keeping the coaching job within the Shaka Smart coaching tree. So keeping the UD job in the Miller "family" by elevating Kuwik may be a good idea, especially if the incoming recruiting class is retained.

[Assembly Hall]

I'm not a huge NBA guy myself, but Donovan/Stevens have two of the best gigs in the league. Not really sure why their names were being floated around at all.

They were the two top guys for the job?

[RedTeamGo!]

I'm not a huge NBA guy myself, but Donovan/Stevens have two of the best gigs in the league. Not really sure why their names were being floated around at all.

https://cdn.meme.am/instances/30252308.jpg

[jimbo]

Interesting that VCU is, once again, keeping the coaching job within the Shaka Smart coaching tree. So keeping the UD job in the Miller "family" by elevating Kuwik may be a good idea, especially if the incoming recruiting class is retained.

Word is that UD's top recruit, Mckinley Wright, has said he has a spot at Indiana if he wants it. Not sure how this could be true in that UD has not released him from his NLOI, so wouldn't it be against NCAA recruiting rules for Miller to have spoken to him?

[Ohayou]

They were the two top guys for the job?

Is that a statement or a question?

Not sure who that meme is for, either, RTG.

[RedTeamGo!]

Is that a statement or a question?

Not sure who that meme is for, either, RTG.

It's for Indiana fans that thought Brad Stevens was a possibility. It was an answer to your question meant in a humorous way.

[Ohayou]

I don't see Stevens ever going back to the college game, TBH.

[Assembly Hall]

Is that a statement or a question?


That is a statement on my end. At one point in time Stevens said that IU was his dream job. As far as Donovan, if you are going to leave the NBA gig and get back into the college ranks with the resume he has, the Hoosier job seems to fit the mold.

[Chip R]

Is Dayton better than Wichita State? Marshall was getting paid $2MM+ more than Archie. The Koch brothers give a lot of money to the school, so resources are not an issue. I don't know what the athletic budget for each school is like, but Wichita State has to be one of the top mid-major schools from a resource standpoint.

Per the US Department of Education report of 2015-16, Wichita State's men's basketball budget is $6,920,933 which is 56th out of 348 schools. UD's is $5,000,454 which is 89th out of 348 schools. For comparison, Kentucky is #1 at $18,910,412. IU's is $12,129,479 which is 5th.

[Hillsdale87]

Per the US Department of Education report of 2015-16, Wichita State's men's basketball budget is $6,920,933 which is 56th out of 348 schools. UD's is $5,000,454 which is 89th out of 348 schools. For comparison, Kentucky is #1 at $18,910,412. IU's is $12,129,479 which is 5th.

Thanks. So Wichita State basically has a lower-level Power 5 conference budget. What Marshall has done is impressive regardless, but it's not like Wichita State is some tiny school with no resources. They're dedicated to basketball, and Marshall has better resources than Archie did.

[Ohayou]

That is a statement on my end. At one point in time Stevens said that IU was his dream job. As far as Donovan, if you are going to leave the NBA gig and get back into the college ranks with the resume he has, the Hoosier job seems to fit the mold.

I understand. They just weren't realistic candidates to me at all. Media needs a story, though.

[Assembly Hall]

I understand. They just weren't realistic candidates to me at all. Media needs a story, though.

Stevens.....no, but Donovan, yes.

And for the Dayton fans......
http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/indiana/2017/03/28/could-top-dayton-recruit-follow-archie-miller-iu/99733868/

[jimbo]

Stevens.....no, but Donovan, yes.

And for the Dayton fans......
http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/indiana/2017/03/28/could-top-dayton-recruit-follow-archie-miller-iu/99733868/

Again, how can McKinley know this if he hasn't been released of his NLOI by UD? Miller is not supposed to be talking to him.

If true, not really surprised. I think it's dirty, but most of these coaches anymore say all they want about having so much respect and love for the school they are leaving, but in the end they'll do whatever they have to in order to succeed, even if it means poaching from the class they had brought in. Losing more and more respect for this guy.

[RedTeamGo!]

Again, how can McKinley know this if he hasn't been released of his NLOI by UD? Miller is not supposed to be talking to him.

If true, not really surprised. I think it's dirty, but most of these coaches anymore say all they want about having so much respect and love for the school they are leaving, but in the end they'll do whatever they have to in order to succeed, even if it means poaching from the class they had brought in. Losing more and more respect for this guy.

There's ways around it. Miller probably spoke to Wright's high school coach or something.

[jimbo]

There's ways around it. Miller probably spoke to Wright's high school coach or something.

Makes it even more dirty, IMO.

[RedTeamGo!]

Makes it even more dirty, IMO.

Eh, I can't blame the kid. Miller was probably 95% of the reason he chose UD. Without Miller why go so far away from home? Even if he doesn't have an opportunity at Indiana he would probably still want out and go to Minnesota or something.

[Revering4Blue]

Eh, I can't blame the kid. Miller was probably 95% of the reason he chose UD. Without Miller why go so far away from home? Even if he doesn't have an opportunity at Indiana he would probably still want out and go to Minnesota or something.

FWIW, the article stated that he hasn't yet decommitted because Osborne may be promoted to UD head coach.

[Assembly Hall]

Again, how can McKinley know this if he hasn't been released of his NLOI by UD? Miller is not supposed to be talking to him.

If true, not really surprised. I think it's dirty, but most of these coaches anymore say all they want about having so much respect and love for the school they are leaving, but in the end they'll do whatever they have to in order to succeed, even if it means poaching from the class they had brought in. Losing more and more respect for this guy.

My understanding is that when a coach leaves kids can automatically get out off the LOI's. I could be wrong.

But the bigger question right here right now is they don't have room for him, somebody has to go.

[jimbo]

My understanding is that when a coach leaves kids can automatically get out off the LOI's. I could be wrong.

Yes, they can asked to be released of it, which most schools will do, but that hasn't happened yet. A coach cannot talk to the kid until it happens.

I don't blame the kid, just think it's dirty for the coach to be actively pursuing him, if that is what's happening.

[Boston Red]

Per the US Department of Education report of 2015-16, Wichita State's men's basketball budget is $6,920,933 which is 56th out of 348 schools. UD's is $5,000,454 which is 89th out of 348 schools. For comparison, Kentucky is #1 at $18,910,412. IU's is $12,129,479 which is 5th.

I bet if you look at that data from 2007 (when Marshall was hired) it would tell a very different story.

[Chip R]

I bet if you look at that data from 2007 (when Marshall was hired) it would tell a very different story.

Well, I would guess the money would be less but the percentage would be the same. Wichita State spends almost $7M now and Kentucky $18M. Back then maybe WSU spent $3M and UK spent $10M. I doubt there are any schools that spent $1M in 2007 and then now they are spending $10M. But the more you win, the more people will want to spend. Marshall comes in, they start winning big. Soon more people are showing up to games, the alumni and boosters give more money, you're getting on TV more often and you're getting tournament money. As a result, you can pay the coach more, you can build a new arena, you can cast a greater net when it comes to recruiting. And it also helps that football isn't hogging money.

[Boston Red]

Well, I would guess the money would be less but the percentage would be the same. Wichita State spends almost $7M now and Kentucky $18M. Back then maybe WSU spent $3M and UK spent $10M. I doubt there are any schools that spent $1M in 2007 and then now they are spending $10M. But the more you win, the more people will want to spend. Marshall comes in, they start winning big. Soon more people are showing up to games, the alumni and boosters give more money, you're getting on TV more often and you're getting tournament money. As a result, you can pay the coach more, you can build a new arena, you can cast a greater net when it comes to recruiting. And it also helps that football isn't hogging money.

Yes. Wichita State is spending what it spends today because of Gregg Marshall. He didn't walk into that situation.

[Assembly Hall]

Well it appears that one of Archie's missions is to start locking up in-state talent.

[RedTeamGo!]

Well it appears that one of Archie's missions is to start locking up in-state talent.

?

[Assembly Hall]

?

He is going after Indiana High School talent.

[WVRed]

He is going after Indiana High School talent.

Didn't Crean try to do the same thing with the Big Handsome?

[Revering4Blue]

Didn't Crean try to do the same thing with the Big Handsome?

Yes, but ultimately rubbed Indiana High School/AAU coaches the wrong way. Couple that with his obsession with diamonds-in-the-rough at the expense of top-flight talent (Indiana and elsewhere) -- which did pay off to some extent, and that's where we are.

I know for a fact that here in talent-laden Northeast Indiana, coaches (High School/AAU) hold Archie Miller in high regard. I'm not the least bit concerned with his ability to recruit for several reasons:

1)He's been recruiting against the big boys (Michigan State, among others) and falling short due, unfortunately, to Dayton's status as an Atlantic 10 school.

2)He had a huge hand in recruiting two of Sean Miller's top 5 classes at Arizona.

3)A sample of the player's he's had a major hand in recruiting at various schools as an assistant and chief recruiter:

Courtney Lee

Solomon Hill

Derek Williams

Nic Wise

Jon Diebler

David Lighty

Evan Turner

4)Among others at Dayton, Scoochie Smith, Steve McElvene (R.I.P), and Josh Cunningham were/are B1G caliber players.

[BillDoran]

Yes, but ultimately rubbed Indiana High School/AAU coaches the wrong way. Couple that with his obsession with diamonds-in-the-rough at the expense of top-flight talent (Indiana and elsewhere) -- which did pay off to some extent, and that's where we are.

I know for a fact that here in talent-laden Northeast Indiana, coaches (High School/AAU) hold Archie Miller in high regard. I'm not the least bit concerned with his ability to recruit for several reasons:

1)He's been recruiting against the big boys (Michigan State, among others) and falling short due, unfortunately, to Dayton's status as an Atlantic 10 school.

2)He had a huge hand in recruiting two of Sean Miller's top 5 classes at Arizona.

3)A sample of the player's he's had a major hand in recruiting at various schools as an assistant and chief recruiter:

Courtney Lee

Solomon Hill

Derek Williams

Nic Wise

Jon Diebler

David Lighty

Evan Turner

4)Among others at Dayton, Scoochie Smith, Steve McElvene (R.I.P), and Josh Cunningham were/are B1G caliber players.

He recruited Jordan Sibert (a top 40 player in the country) to Ohio State as well and had such a good relationship that he later brought him to UD, where he was a star.

Archie's a good recruiter, but his assistant, Tom Ostrom, received a lot of credit for being the lead recruiter on the staff. I'd be surprised if Archie didn't bring him to Bloomington.

Archie is also a fit guy - or at least he was at Dayton. With the resources and the reputation of IU, I think you'll see his recruiting make a jump, but I'm under the impression he's more interested in character and schematic fit than just grabbing highly ranked players. Again, it was Dayton, but he brought a number of guys to UD where they weren't on the radar of a lot of schools but fit roles in the program.

[Assembly Hall]

Didn't Crean try to do the same thing with the Big Handsome?

JMHO, but in 9 years Crean landed 3 top flight Indiana kids.......3 in 9 years.

[Assembly Hall]

http://www.crimsonquarry.com/2017/3/28/15088706/archie-miller-indiana-staff-assistant-coaches

[Revering4Blue]

Hartman's returning, but JBjr is testing the NBA waters without hiring an agent.

[Hoosier Red]

Didn't Crean try to do the same thing with the Big Handsome?

Yes. He was really good at recruiting the state the first 4-5 years of his tenure.

From being hired to 2013-2014 recruiting classes, he brought in Zeller, Yogi, Hartman, Austin Etherington, Devin Davis, Jeremy Hollowell, Hanner Mosquera-Perea, and had comittments from James Blackmon Jr and Trey Lyles. From that moment on, Lyles de-committed, Blackmon de-committed before recommitting and it's been a veritable draught of Indiana born talent on the roster.
All the while other programs have plucked enough players that you could put together an All-Star team of Indiana born players on other NCAA tournament team's rosters.

[Assembly Hall]

Yes. He was really good at recruiting the state the first 4-5 years of his tenure.

From being hired to 2013-2014 recruiting classes, he brought in Zeller, Yogi, Hartman, Austin Etherington, Devin Davis, Jeremy Hollowell, Hanner Mosquera-Perea, and had comittments from James Blackmon Jr and Trey Lyles. From that moment on, Lyles de-committed, Blackmon de-committed before recommitting and it's been a veritable draught of Indiana born talent on the roster.
All the while other programs have plucked enough players that you could put together an All-Star team of Indiana born players on other NCAA tournament team's rosters.

You left a few off that list. Jordan Hulls, Ron Patterson, and Derek Elston come to mind.

But my stance is Crean was swinging and missing at the top guys in the state. And sometimes I wondered if he was even swinging at all.

[WVRed]

Yes. He was really good at recruiting the state the first 4-5 years of his tenure.

From being hired to 2013-2014 recruiting classes, he brought in Zeller, Yogi, Hartman, Austin Etherington, Devin Davis, Jeremy Hollowell, Hanner Mosquera-Perea, and had comittments from James Blackmon Jr and Trey Lyles. From that moment on, Lyles de-committed, Blackmon de-committed before recommitting and it's been a veritable draught of Indiana born talent on the roster.

All the while other programs have plucked enough players that you could put together an All-Star team of Indiana born players on other NCAA tournament team's rosters.

I'm trying to think of who has come through Indiana in recent memory.

Greg Oden
Mike Conley
Tyler Zeller
Marquis Teague
Josh McRoberts
Trey Lyles

I'm sure there's more. Oden and Conley are two that any coach should have fought to keep in-state. It basically bought Thad Matta a lifetime contract at Ohio State.

[Boston Red]

I'm glad Indiana managed to let Trevon Bluiett slip away in recent years (as an example)!

[Assembly Hall]

I'm trying to think of who has come through Indiana in recent memory.

Greg Oden
Mike Conley
Tyler Zeller
Marquis Teague
Josh McRoberts
Trey Lyles

I'm sure there's more. Oden and Conley are two that any coach should have fought to keep in-state. It basically bought Thad Matta a lifetime contract at Ohio State.

Here is the here and now list......

http://interactives.indystar.com/sports/standing/hsBasketball_db/

[Boston Red]

Is there anyone on that list other than Trevon that you'd really want?

[Assembly Hall]

Is there anyone on that list other than Trevon that you'd really want?

Bryant MacIntosh, Zak Irvin, Joey Brunk?

But it is a valid question.

[Revering4Blue]

Is there anyone on that list other than Trevon that you'd really want?

What AH said..plus Kyle Guy.

[Revering4Blue]

Yes. He was really good at recruiting the state the first 4-5 years of his tenure.

From being hired to 2013-2014 recruiting classes, he brought in Zeller, Yogi, Hartman, Austin Etherington, Devin Davis, Jeremy Hollowell, Hanner Mosquera-Perea, and had comittments from James Blackmon Jr and Trey Lyles. From that moment on, Lyles de-committed, Blackmon de-committed before recommitting and it's been a veritable draught of Indiana born talent on the roster.
All the while other programs have plucked enough players that you could put together an All-Star team of Indiana born players on other NCAA tournament team's rosters.

Underwhelming collective production from the '12 and '13 classes also didn't help matters, and that's not confined to players from Indiana High Schools.

[Assembly Hall]

I read or heard somewhere that according to one scouting service that 4 of the top players in the 2017 class were from Indiana. None of them chose IU.

[Assembly Hall]

http://www.insidethehall.com/2017/03/31/look-indianas-potential-state-targets-2018-class/

[Boston Red]

If Miller can steal Langford away from Pitinio and Calipari, I'll be very impressed.

[Assembly Hall]

If Miller can steal Langford away from Pitinio and Calipari, I'll be very impressed.

I would also throw Coach K into the mix as well.

[Assembly Hall]

WTH????????

http://fox59.com/2017/03/31/bob-knight-endorses-archie-miller-i-think-youre-going-to-enjoy-some-good-basketball/amp/

[Boston Red]

Bob Knight was in Bloomington?!?

[Assembly Hall]

Bob Knight was in Bloomington?!?

I imagine he was in the area for a book signing as well??????????

[WVRed]

Thoughts on Bruiser Flint being hired by Archie?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Revering4Blue]

Thoughts on Bruiser Flint being hired by Archie?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What's not to like?

The other two are likely to be Tom Ostrom and John Groce. The We need an IU guy crowd will be unhappy, but whatever. That stated, I'd love to see Derek Elston retained as Director of Player Development.

[WVRed]

What's not to like?

The other two are likely to be Tom Ostrom and John Groce. The We need an IU guy crowd will be unhappy, but whatever. That stated, I'd love to see Derek Elston retained as Director of Player Development.

Speculation at KSR is that Flints hiring is a step in possibly restarting the IU-UK rivalry given that Flint is a Calipari guy. If not for Louisville poaching Damion Lee, Flint would probably still be at Drexel.

[Assembly Hall]

Speculation at KSR is that Flints hiring is a step in possibly restarting the IU-UK rivalry given that Flint is a Calipari guy. If not for Louisville poaching Damion Lee, Flint would probably still be at Drexel.

From what I have been hearing through the grapevine, is that CAM wants to revive the UK series and start one with 'Zona as well. What a breath of fresh air.

[dabvu2498]

Speculation at KSR is that Flints hiring is a step in possibly restarting the IU-UK rivalry given that Flint is a Calipari guy. If not for Louisville poaching Damion Lee, Flint would probably still be at Drexel.

I realize it's chic for UK fans to blame all the world's ills on Louisville, but Drexel was 11-19 in Damion Lee's junior year. That ship was going down regardless.

And if we're playing that game, maybe Billy Donlan would still be at Wright State if Calipari hadn't "poached" Julius Mays from them.

[BillDoran]

Speculation at KSR is that Flints hiring is a step in possibly restarting the IU-UK rivalry given that Flint is a Calipari guy. If not for Louisville poaching Damion Lee, Flint would probably still be at Drexel.

The Millers are Calipari guys themselves. Calipari and the Miller family are from the same part of Pennsylvania. You'll hear Archie (or his dad) reference Cal with some frequency, and it goes both ways (in March Calipari called Archie the best young coach in the country).

A coaching staff of Flint, Groce and Ostrom would be dynamite. Two former head coaches and an ace recruiter. I'm a little surprised to hear Flint or Groce would take the third chair though, especially Groce who probably could land a reasonably good head coach gig yet.

[Assembly Hall]

http://www.insidethehall.com/2017/04/01/naismith-hall-fame-induct-george-mcginnis/

[Revering4Blue]

http://www.insidethehall.com/2017/04/01/naismith-hall-fame-induct-george-mcginnis/

It's about time. Well past time, actually.

His skill-set was well ahead of its time. It's not a stretch to compare him with LeBron James, and I'm not joking.

[Revering4Blue]

The Rockets have recalled Isaiah Taylor and Troy Williams from their affiliate in Rio Grande Valley, the team tweeted. Neither has appeared in a game yet for Houston, but Williams will be used as a starter tonight, according to Jonathan Feigen of The Houston Chronicle

Wow! He'll be playing with James Harden and Eric Gordon.

If you're curious, the game will be on NBATV at 9 EDT.

[Boston Red]

Bruiser Flint was a pretty bad head coach, but that doesn't mean he can't be a good assistant. Two different skillsets.

[Assembly Hall]

Reports are coming out that Tom Ostram will be named an assistant as well.

[Assembly Hall]

Al Durham recommits to IU.

[Hoosier Red]

Some rumors that IU is going to poach Ed Schilling from UCLA's staff. That would be a huge get.

[Revering4Blue]

Some rumors that IU is going to poach Ed Schilling from UCLA's staff. That would be a huge get.

Perhaps Schilling has had enough of LaVar Ball's shenanigans, as Alford has likely made a deal with the devil there.

Thank Gawd IU didn't hire SA, not that I expected Glass to be that foolish, even though the media -- largely composed of graduates from IU rival schools -- and rival fanbases did.

[Assembly Hall]

McKinley Wright, Minnesota's Mr. Basketball and Dayton recruit, asks for a release from his LOI.

[Revering4Blue]

It appears Archie Miller’s coaching staff at Indiana has been finalized. The Hoosiers coaching staff will include Bruiser Flint, Tom Ostrom and Ed Schilling as assistant coaches, according to a report on Sunday afternoon from Jeff Goodman of ESPN.com.

:beerme:

[Revering4Blue]

To the surprise of no one:

Indiana's OG Anunoby will sign with an agent and forgo last two years at Indiana, multiple sources told ESPN.

[Assembly Hall]

To the surprise of no one:

Indiana's OG Anunoby will sign with an agent and forgo last two years at Indiana, multiple sources told ESPN.

And now we wait and see what Bryant will do.

[Assembly Hall]

And both Bryant and Robert Johnson declare for the draft but will not hire an agent.

[Revering4Blue]

And both Bryant and Robert Johnson declare for the draft but will not hire an agent.

Just a hunch, but of the three IU players to declare without hiring an agent, I believe that JBjr is the one most likely to be gone, regardless of projected draft position. Honestly, if you're not drafted in the first round with the guaranteed money, it's almost better to go undrafted and choose which camp to attend. The only reason that Yogi Ferrell wasn't picked -- along with others from various schools -- in the second round is that he refused ahead of time to agree to straight to the D-League, thereby saving an NBA team a roster spot.

Anyway, I'm not sweating it even if they all leave, which is hardly likely, as Archie Miller has already taken less talented teams to the Sweet 16 and beyond. And, contrary to popular belief, no one is expecting CAM to get "us" to the Final Four/restore IU to where they, in reality, should be overnight -- which is what I hear from the "IU fans aren't realistic/Crean couldn't do any better because the program isn't what it used to be" crowd. It will take a couple of years to re-establish an in-state pipeline/solid relationships with ISHAA and AAU coaches that CTM somehow lost.

It will also be nice to see IU running a motion offense without throwing the ball away every other time up court, along with significantly better than matador defense. It all starts right there.

[Assembly Hall]

I am with ya Rev on all of your comments above.

And will add further that JBJ, TB, and RoJo were the reasons that IU had the season that they did. It wouldn't upset me one bit if they all left.

[Assembly Hall]

And this tid bit.........

https://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/news/jordan-brand-regional-four-star-clifton-moore-updates-status

[Assembly Hall]

http://www.news-sentinel.com/sports/iu/20170416/ius_archie_miller_goes_3-for-3_with_class_of_2017

So it means that two more have to go......or am I not thinking about something?

[Hillsdale87]

http://www.news-sentinel.com/sports/iu/20170416/ius_archie_miller_goes_3-for-3_with_class_of_2017

So it means that two more have to go......or am I not thinking about something?

Yea. There are either going to be some transfers, or 2 guys will end up staying the draft. Should be interesting to see how it all shakes out

[Assembly Hall]

Yea. There are either going to be some transfers, or 2 guys will end up staying the draft. Should be interesting to see how it all shakes out

It will be interesting to see what Gelon does.

[gilpdawg]

If everyone comes back Priller can grad transfer to a smaller school (last I heard he was on track to graduate early) where he can play, and Gelon shouldn't have been recruited in the first place. He's a guy that should have went to Ball State or somewhere.

But I don't think it matters. TB ain't coming back. RoJo almost definitely will and should. Blackmon is the wildcard.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

[Hillsdale87]

I am with ya Rev on all of your comments above.

And will add further that JBJ, TB, and RoJo were the reasons that IU had the season that they did. It wouldn't upset me one bit if they all left.

TB and RoJo lost their way last year, but losing them would be a huge blow. They may have not have helped the team last year, but they were keys on the team that won the Big 10 the year before. Both should come back. If Archie uses Bryant correctly, which I think he would, he would get his stock back up into the late lottery/low 20s. I'm not sure RoJo ever has a chance at being drafted, but the only way that could happen is if he comes back next year and improves. Both guys are smart to go through the process and get feedback, but both should come back.

JBJ is one of the most polarizing players at IU in recent memory. He's clearly a very good offensive player and great shooter, but there's something missing that hopefully Archie could get out of him. I would love to have him back too, but I wouldn't be surprised if he stays in the draft.

[Assembly Hall]

and Gelon shouldn't have been recruited in the first place. He's a guy that should have went to Ball State or somewhere.



I am with you on that one...his recruitment still has me scratching my head.

[Revering4Blue]

I am with you on that one...his recruitment still has me scratching my head.

As a pure-shooting zonebuster (think Matt Roth), he could be useful. Heck, even Priller --yes, Priller -- could actually be useful in Miller's motion offense with his ability to actually set screens -- an underutilized art in Crean's Drive and Kickout, often resulting in errant passes/turnovers offense.

I'm not saying that I want (or "we" need) the aforementioned two to come back, just that Miller may be able to maximize them to the point that they are useful, B1G caliber rotation players.

[Assembly Hall]

As a pure-shooting zonebuster (think Matt Roth), he could be useful. Heck, even Priller --yes, Priller -- could actually be useful in Miller's motion offense with his ability to actually set screens -- an underutilized art in Crean's Drive and Kickout, often resulting in errant passes/turnovers offense.

I'm not saying that I want (or "we" need) the aforementioned two to come back, just that Miller may be able to maximize them to the point that they are useful, B1G caliber rotation players.

I am sure CAM has a plan for them.......but Crean's recruitment of Gelon is mind boggling to me. Let alone CTC didn't use him at all.

[Revering4Blue]

I am sure CAM has a plan for them.......but Crean's recruitment of Gelon is mind boggling to me. Let alone CTC didn't use him at all.

True.

Gelon's recruitment -- the fact that he landed at IU -- amounted to somewhat of a paradox. He was regarded as one of the best pure shooters in the state with incredible range on his jumper, but wasn't heavily recruited by other major conference schools or major conference-level schools.

We'd be here all day if we were to discuss Crean's substitution patterns/lineups he threw out there at times. For example, McRoberts and McSwain together(both of whom opponents could, more or less, not guard) for extended periods of time. At least the other team would have to guard Gelon.

[Assembly Hall]

True.

Gelon's recruitment -- the fact that he landed at IU -- amounted to somewhat of a paradox. He was regarded as one of the best pure shooters in the state with incredible range on his jumper, but wasn't heavily recruited by other major conference schools or major conference-level schools.

We'd be here all day if we were to discuss Crean's substitution patterns/lineups he threw out there at times. For example, McRoberts and McSwain together(both of whom opponents could, more or less, not guard) for extended periods of time. At least the other team would have to guard Gelon.

True all that.....and I will add(although it is just my opinion) that one of Crean's strong points is that he found guys that were under the radar. I was hoping Gelon was of that ilk. Hell I don't know, maybe Grant will stick around and be the next Tom Coverdale?

[Hoosier Red]

Thomas Bryant staying in draft.
https://twitter.com/jeffrabjohns/status/858510459506487297

[Assembly Hall]

Thomas Bryant staying in draft.
https://twitter.com/jeffrabjohns/status/858510459506487297

Best of luck to TB.

[Assembly Hall]

Reports are that Blackmon, Jr. will hire an agent.

[redsfanmia]

Reports are that Blackmon, Jr. will hire an agent.
Addition by subtraction

[Assembly Hall]

Addition by subtraction

Kind of mind boggling when you think about it. IU gets bounced in the 1st round of the NIT and yet 3 guys are turning pro? And a 4th might as well?

[redsfanmia]

Kind of mind boggling when you think about it. IU gets bounced in the 1st round of the NIT and yet 3 guys are turning pro? And a 4th might as well?
How does JBJ get drafted?

[Assembly Hall]

How does JBJ get drafted?

He doesn't.

[redsfanmia]

He doesn't.

Do you think Archie pushed him out? He will make tons of money in Europe or China.

[Revering4Blue]

Kind of mind boggling when you think about it. IU gets bounced in the 1st round of the NIT and yet 3 guys are turning pro? And a 4th might as well?

A team's performance has little, if any, bearing on a Pro scout's player evaluation. If anything --- and I hate to pile on the guy --- it reflects poorly on CTC, no matter what the National media talking heads/Harbaugh clan state. The team was mediocre even before O.G was lost for the season.

I view the situation like this:

O.G was a lock to leave even before his horrific injury. He'll be off the board before the 20th pick, and, assuming the Nuggets at 13 retain their draft position following the lottery, are likely to nab O.G there.

At this point, with his wingspan and perimeter skills, Bryant intrigues NBA scouts just enough to possibly go in the late 1st round, providing he performs well at the combine. My guess is that Bryant was informed by CAM that his days of stationing himself on the perimeter in Crean's drive-and-kick offense were over. We'll see how this works out, but he's a lock to be drafted. Heck, Maryland's Diamond Stone, who isn't near the athlete Bryant is, was drafted in the second round and spent a considerable amount of time in the D-League. Bryant may well follow a similar path.

Scuttlebutt here in JBjr's hometown is that his injury history is playing a huge factor in his decision. Plus, his mother is a Surgeon, so the family isn't scraping for money; he can play in the D-League, if necessary. Not surprisingly, defense and ball-handling are his question marks. Compared with the college game, the NBA game lends itself to hiding defensively-challenged players. At this point, though, I doubt that he's drafted, but as I've stated before, unless you land in the first round with guaranteed money, other than hearing your name called, there are no discernible advantages to being drafted in the second as opposed to going undrafted -- ask Yogi Ferrell and Troy Williams.

[Assembly Hall]

Do you think Archie pushed him out? He will make tons of money in Europe or China.

Nope, not all. When CTC got fired 2 recruits de-committed. When Archie was named HC, he went back after those two and got them. He(CAM) knew something or he wouldn't have pursued them because we were over the limit to start out with.

[Assembly Hall]

http://www.insidethehall.com/2018-indiana-basketball-recruiting-board/

[Assembly Hall]

http://www.jconline.com/story/sports/college/purdue/basketball/2017/05/12/protecting-big-ten-basketball-rivalries-gains-support/101615916/

[Hoosier Red]

Not unexpected but still welcome news. RoJo has reportedly withdrawn from NBA draft.

https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/864456856621785088

[Assembly Hall]

Not unexpected but still welcome news. RoJo has reportedly withdrawn from NBA draft.

https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/864456856621785088

To my knowledge RoJo has not officially said that..........his Father did though.

[Assembly Hall]

Another "Wat Shot"?

http://www.insidethehall.com/2017/05/19/indiana-offers-class-2019-five-star-forward-trendon-watford/

[Revering4Blue]

Another "Wat Shot"?

http://www.insidethehall.com/2017/05/19/indiana-offers-class-2019-five-star-forward-trendon-watford/

Oddly enough, Tom Crean never pursued him -- a Five-Star recruit and younger brother of a player who was instrumental to CTC's success (when it lasted) at IU.

[Assembly Hall]

Grant Gelon has been granted his release.

[RedTeamGo!]

Hey Hoosiers fans, posted this in the OSU thread, but it also has a lot to do with IU, so figured I would repost here.

So, my friend is an aquaintence of Tom Ostrom, Archie Miller's assistant coach. They share a mutual friend. My friend was shown this text from Archie Miller:


Showed me a text from Archie..."if those MF'ers would have called me 60 days ago I would have Uber'd to Columbus". Dude is pi**ed

He went on to say Archie and Ostram are "miserable" at IU. Apparently Crean left the program in "complete disarray" and the fans and boosters have no idea how bad it is and expect B1G titles and Final Four runs immediately. Archie and Tom say the recruiting situation Crean left them with is "terrible." Archie has gained 20 lbs since he took the job.

Thought this was interesting so I would share. Going to repost in Indiana thread

[Assembly Hall]

Hey Hoosiers fans, posted this in the OSU thread, but it also has a lot to do with IU, so figured I would repost here.

So, my friend is an aquaintence of Tom Ostrom, Archie Miller's assistant coach. They share a mutual friend. My friend was shown this text from Archie Miller:



He went on to say Archie and Ostram are "miserable" at IU. Apparently Crean left the program in "complete disarray" and the fans and boosters have no idea how bad it is and expect B1G titles and Final Four runs immediately. Archie and Tom say the recruiting situation Crean left them with is "terrible." Archie has gained 20 lbs since he took the job.

Thought this was interesting so I would share. Going to repost in Indiana thread

Well I don't know what to think about that. There is a lot of talent on the IU roster that is held over. As I stated above in a post when Crean got fired two recruits de-committed. Archie went back after those two, and got them to re-up. Now the one thing I will say about Crean is, that for whatever reason, he was not well liked by the high school basketball coaches here. That is something that Archie is gonna have to clean up.

- - - Updated - - -


Hey Hoosiers fans, posted this in the OSU thread, but it also has a lot to do with IU, so figured I would repost here.

So, my friend is an aquaintence of Tom Ostrom, Archie Miller's assistant coach. They share a mutual friend. My friend was shown this text from Archie Miller:



He went on to say Archie and Ostram are "miserable" at IU. Apparently Crean left the program in "complete disarray" and the fans and boosters have no idea how bad it is and expect B1G titles and Final Four runs immediately. Archie and Tom say the recruiting situation Crean left them with is "terrible." Archie has gained 20 lbs since he took the job.

Thought this was interesting so I would share. Going to repost in Indiana thread

Well I don't know what to think about that. There is a lot of talent on the IU roster that is held over. As I stated above in a post when Crean got fired two recruits de-committed. Archie went back after those two, and got them to re-up. Now the one thing I will say about Crean is, that for whatever reason, he was not well liked by the high school basketball coaches here. That is something that Archie is gonna have to clean up.

[jimbo]

Hey Hoosiers fans, posted this in the OSU thread, but it also has a lot to do with IU, so figured I would repost here.

So, my friend is an aquaintence of Tom Ostrom, Archie Miller's assistant coach. They share a mutual friend. My friend was shown this text from Archie Miller:


He went on to say Archie and Ostram are "miserable" at IU. Apparently Crean left the program in "complete disarray" and the fans and boosters have no idea how bad it is and expect B1G titles and Final Four runs immediately. Archie and Tom say the recruiting situation Crean left them with is "terrible." Archie has gained 20 lbs since he took the job.

Thought this was interesting so I would share. Going to repost in Indiana thread

If true, very childish and unprofessional of Archie to react in such a manner, even if it was a private conversation. You deal with the cards your dealt. He is a good enough coach that he can turn things around at IU. He needs to focus on his job and not what is happening at Ohio State.

Again, if true, hearing something like this makes me feel even better that we now have Grant at UD. Miller's true colors have really been exposed these past few months and something like this just reinforces that. I would not be happy to hear something like this if I was an IU supporter.

[Hillsdale87]

I would think the IU program is in a much better position currently than OSU. I also don't think that most fans expect final fours immediately.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hillsdale87]

IU still has one of the most talented rosters in the big 10 for the upcoming year


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Assembly Hall]

Let us look at this objectively. Which program is in better shape, right here right now? Hell, it aint rocket science. IU's past season was marred by injuries and Crean did not make the needed adjustments for the squad. Make no mistake, the Hoosiers got talent back.

[Boston Red]

Hey Hoosiers fans, posted this in the OSU thread, but it also has a lot to do with IU, so figured I would repost here.

So, my friend is an aquaintence of Tom Ostrom, Archie Miller's assistant coach. They share a mutual friend. My friend was shown this text from Archie Miller:



He went on to say Archie and Ostram are "miserable" at IU. Apparently Crean left the program in "complete disarray" and the fans and boosters have no idea how bad it is and expect B1G titles and Final Four runs immediately. Archie and Tom say the recruiting situation Crean left them with is "terrible." Archie has gained 20 lbs since he took the job.

Thought this was interesting so I would share. Going to repost in Indiana thread

Boo hoo for Archie.

[RedTeamGo!]

IU still has one of the most talented rosters in the big 10 for the upcoming year


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's not really saying much. The Big 10 is severely lacking in talent right now.

[Hillsdale87]

My point was just that if Archie is complaining about how Crean left the program, IU is in a much better spot right now than OSU


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hoosier Red]

Hey Hoosiers fans, posted this in the OSU thread, but it also has a lot to do with IU, so figured I would repost here.

So, my friend is an aquaintence of Tom Ostrom, Archie Miller's assistant coach. They share a mutual friend. My friend was shown this text from Archie Miller:



He went on to say Archie and Ostram are "miserable" at IU. Apparently Crean left the program in "complete disarray" and the fans and boosters have no idea how bad it is and expect B1G titles and Final Four runs immediately. Archie and Tom say the recruiting situation Crean left them with is "terrible." Archie has gained 20 lbs since he took the job.

Thought this was interesting so I would share. Going to repost in Indiana thread

He's carrying the extra 20 lbs well.

[Assembly Hall]

Well getting back to serious stuff.....seems like the B1G might want to add more conference games.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/19617216/big-ten-discussing-20-game-conference-slate

[Playadlc]

No way the above post is true. 20 pounds? lol

[Revering4Blue]

No way the above post is true. 20 pounds? lol

10 pounds from Nick's and Trojan Horse visits, possibly.

[Assembly Hall]

IU still has a scholly........

http://www.thestarpress.com/story/sports/college/indiana/2017/06/19/iu-fill-13-th-scholarship/409069001/

[Assembly Hall]

Found this to be a good read and gave me a chuckle as well.....

http://www.insidethehall.com/2017/06/19/bryant-confident-in-indianas-future/

[Razor Shines]

Granted I live in Austin but I don't know any IU fans who expect Titles and Final Four runs immediately. That whole series of claims didn't make a lot of sense but what do I know, maybe Archie really is a poop, we'll find out I suppose.

[Assembly Hall]

http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/just-revealed-indianas-archie-miller-one-of-highest-paid-coaches-in-college-hoops/

[WMR]

Granted I live in Austin but I don't know any IU fans who expect Titles and Final Four runs immediately. That whole series of claims didn't make a lot of sense but what do I know, maybe Archie really is a poop, we'll find out I suppose.

Indiana should've given Crean a few more years to finish implementing "The Movement"...

[Hoosier Red]

Big day for IU Basketball as inside of 24 hours, three top 100 recruits have committed. One is reclassifying from 2018 to 2017 and will start at IU this season. Interestingly, he's still going to redshirt, but it makes sense to bring him into the program as soon as possible.

https://t.co/bX9KxTrKFW

[redsfanmia]

Big day for IU Basketball as inside of 24 hours, three top 100 recruits have committed. One is reclassifying from 2018 to 2017 and will start at IU this season. Interestingly, he's still going to redshirt, but it makes sense to bring him into the program as soon as possible.

https://t.co/bX9KxTrKFW

Hopefully Romeo Langford is being made a priority.

[Hoosier Red]

Hopefully Romeo Langford is being made a priority.

Oh I'm sure he's a priority. Unfortunately, he was a priority for a lot of schools who got a head start on his recruitment.
In addition to the fact that he's super talented, IU needs a PG badly.

[Revering4Blue]

Paul Biancardi - ESPN Basketball Recruiting:

"Indiana on fire in recruiting. Adding on with Espn 100 Jerome Hunter. SF Damezi Anderson picks the Hoosiers. He is a scoring forward with shooting range to 20 feet. His athletic ability and body control helps him finish in the transition game. Big man Race Thompson from Minnesota gave his pledge to Miller and will enroll this fall. Look for Thompson to possibly redshirt. Archie Miller and staff building a roster."

[Assembly Hall]

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/archie-miller-is-funneling-in-recruits-in-a-hurry-indiana-lands-three-top-100-prospects-in-under-24-hours/

[Assembly Hall]

I wondered how long it would take.........

http://www.insidethehall.com/2017/07/24/report-indiana-arizona-eyeing-three-year-series/

[Boston Red]

I welcome any interesting non-conference basketball games actually played on the respective teams' home floors. That's so rare these days.

[Assembly Hall]

I welcome any interesting non-conference basketball games actually played on the respective teams' home floors. That's so rare these days.

I hear ya man. And I will say that it will be interesting to see how Archie fills out the schedule in the years ahead.

[Assembly Hall]

Did someone mention a PG.......

http://www.insidethehall.com/2017/08/19/mccutcheon-point-guard-robert-phinisee-becomes-third-member-ius-2018-recruiting-class/

[Assembly Hall]

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/indiana/2017/09/11/pennsylvania-forward-jake-forrester-picks-iu/655764001/

[Hoosier Red]

Really impressive strong class from Archie to this point. Still one scholarship available, wonder who they're holding it open for? :)

[Hillsdale87]

Langford will be there for Hoosier Hysteria. Hopefully they make a good impression


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Assembly Hall]

Langford will be there for Hoosier Hysteria. Hopefully they make a good impression


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

As will Garland.......be interesting. I get the feeling he will land both of them possibly. And Archie knows more than us.

[Hillsdale87]

As will Garland.......be interesting. I get the feeling he will land both of them possibly. And Archie knows more than us.

It would be incredible if he landed both. There's only one open scholarship right now though, so somebody would have to transfer or a current recruit would have to back out. If Garland committed, I could see Phinisee wanting to go elsewhere.

[Assembly Hall]

It would be incredible if he landed both. There's only one open scholarship right now though, so somebody would have to transfer or a current recruit would have to back out. If Garland committed, I could see Phinisee wanting to go elsewhere.

As I said, Archie knows more than we do. He wouldn't be going after both with only one open scholarship. As of right now I am more inclined to think Garland will wind up elsewhere. But I have been wrong countless times.

[Hillsdale87]

As I said, Archie knows more than we do. He wouldn't be going after both with only one open scholarship. As of right now I am more inclined to think Garland will wind up elsewhere. But I have been wrong countless times.

Garland would definitely be a big surprise, but attending HH with Romeo is the best thing they could hope for.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dubc47834]

CWat's little brother had a visit last week. From what I understand it went really well. Sounds like he was fairly disappointed that Coach Crean didn't recruit him that much. Watford is a 5 star who is probly more talented than his older brother. His father seems to love IU as well!

[Assembly Hall]

CWat's little brother had a visit last week. From what I understand it went really well. Sounds like he was fairly disappointed that Coach Crean didn't recruit him that much. Watford is a 5 star who is probly more talented than his older brother. His father seems to love IU as well!

Yeah, I seen that. It was an unofficial. His older sister was in town playing in a volleyball tournament. Pains me that CTC wasn't on him hard, but evidently CAM is.

[Assembly Hall]

http://www.insidethehall.com/2017/09/19/indiana-has-terrific-in-home-visit-with-five-star-point-guard-darius-garland/

[Assembly Hall]

Well they are lined up outside of Assembly Hall to watch "Hoosier Hysteria".

[dubc47834]

Well they are lined up outside of Assembly Hall to watch "Hoosier Hysteria".

According to everything I have seen and heard, all went very well this weekend as far as recruiting was concerned. Have even heard that Langford and his parents might skip his official Kansas visit this weekend and make a decision. If not, they said expect a decision mid/late November.

[Boston Red]

When's the last time IU got a guy out of Indiana's portion of Louisville? Sheron Wilkerson? I remember how much my cousins across the border loved Pat Graham back in the day.

[Assembly Hall]

When's the last time IU got a guy out of Indiana's portion of Louisville? Sheron Wilkerson? I remember how much my cousins across the border loved Pat Graham back in the day.

Yes, it would have been Sherron Wilkerson from Jeffersonville.

[Hoosier Red]

Here's hoping Jerry Meyer's crystal ball is correct

https://twitter.com/jerrymeyer247/status/923304838422827019

[Assembly Hall]

Here's hoping Jerry Meyer's crystal ball is correct

https://twitter.com/jerrymeyer247/status/923304838422827019

I do too. And I am hearing chatter on the IU boards as well that they got them both locked down.

[Hillsdale87]

I do too. And I am hearing chatter on the IU boards as well that they got them both locked down.

And now everybody is wavering, and the new movement seems to be Garland to Vandy. Recruiting is crazy

[Assembly Hall]

And now everybody is wavering, and the new movement seems to be Garland to Vandy. Recruiting is crazy

Yeah, I am hearing that too. But it is what it is.

[Josh]

Ready to see this team and what our future might be. Upset that if I wanted to watch the first game of the season I would have to pay for a BTNplus.

[Assembly Hall]

When's the last time IU got a guy out of Indiana's portion of Louisville? Sheron Wilkerson? I remember how much my cousins across the border loved Pat Graham back in the day.

Had to revisit this post. Saw on another site where CAM was talking about the '18 class. They got a kid from South Bend, first time in 45 years they landed some one from that town. They also got a kid from Lafayette, first time in 70 years they got one from there.

[dubc47834]

Wasn't expecting that!!!

[Assembly Hall]

Wasn't expecting that!!!

I don't think anyone was!!!!!!!! But that is what happens when your opponent sinks 17 shots from behind the arc.

[Josh]

Well I am glad I didn't buy that app to watch the game.

[dubc47834]

I don't think anyone was!!!!!!!! But that is what happens when your opponent sinks 17 shots from behind the arc.

Definately going to be some growing pains this year. At least IU is in Langfords final 3 today

[mamrice]

Without a doubt, IU is going to go through some growing pains this year. Like you guys, I was shocked to see them get pummeled like they did on their home court last night. I'm curious how Archie approaches tomorrow's game versus Howard. Do you all think he dabbles with the starting lineup at all? RJ looked terrible yesterday.

On the bright side, the incoming class (if you also include Race Thompson) is going to be excellent and could be surreal if they land Garland and Langford. Very anxious to see how that goes on Monday afternoon. Keep hearing mixed signals on that recruitment. Garland is the real deal....that kid alone could completely change the performance on the court. And add in Romeo....wow.

[Assembly Hall]

Well, Rojo and Newkirk are the first ones I would bench. Damn, they are seniors, but they don't play like it. So yes, I think Archie will tweak the starting line-up.

[dubc47834]

Well another struggle. If they keep playing like this and can't figure things out then winning a road game this year will be a struggle. I figured this year would be a wash with Archie coming in with Crean's players, just didn't think they would struggle this much. Pretty sure the next game is at Seton Hall and they are ranked, should be a butt whooping. At this point I would get the Freshmen as much playing time as possible in preparation for next year. Also, not sure what Curtis Jones has done to get in Miller's doghouse, but his playing time has been almost nil. I thought he was the best freshman last year. I could see it being effort in practice tho!!!

[Assembly Hall]

All I know is that Archie better have them practicing FT's today!!!!!!!!!

[Hoosier Red]

Well another struggle. If they keep playing like this and can't figure things out then winning a road game this year will be a struggle. I figured this year would be a wash with Archie coming in with Crean's players, just didn't think they would struggle this much. Pretty sure the next game is at Seton Hall and they are ranked, should be a butt whooping. At this point I would get the Freshmen as much playing time as possible in preparation for next year. Also, not sure what Curtis Jones has done to get in Miller's doghouse, but his playing time has been almost nil. I thought he was the best freshman last year. I could see it being effort in practice tho!!!

He was the guy who I remembered being most disappointed in his lack of development last year. Or was that Green? At this point they're pretty much interchangeable and both likely to be in the dog house at any one time.
Yesterday didn't really bother me that much because shooting FT's are something that should be relatively fixable. If they make free throws, the game looks quite a bit different.

Really liked Al Durham's game yesterday.

[RedTeamGo!]

Archie on the hot seat yet? :mooner:



...sorry, Dayton fan, had to do it.

[Assembly Hall]

He was the guy who I remembered being most disappointed in his lack of development last year. Or was that Green? At this point they're pretty much interchangeable and both likely to be in the dog house at any one time.
Yesterday didn't really bother me that much because shooting FT's are something that should be relatively fixable. If they make free throws, the game looks quite a bit different.

Really liked Al Durham's game yesterday.

To be honest, I thought Green should have started last year. He was clearly better than Jones. I also thought Davis should have started last year as well.

But AL does look to be a hidden gem.

[Hoosier Red]

To be honest, I thought Green should have started last year. He was clearly better than Jones. I also thought Davis should have started last year as well.

But AL does look to be a hidden gem.

That sounds right. It's so crazy but I was so disappointed with the team last year I honestly have a hard time remembering who I was disappointed in and for what.

[Assembly Hall]

That sounds right. It's so crazy but I was so disappointed with the team last year I honestly have a hard time remembering who I was disappointed in and for what.

Well, let me refresh your memory. Bryant totally digressed from his frosh season. O.G. was lost for the season due to injury. And JBJ still couldn't guard a chair. Pretty much sums it up through my crimson colored glasses.

[Josh]

http://bluehqmedia.com/garland-spurns-hoosiers-focus-turns-langford/

[Assembly Hall]

http://bluehqmedia.com/garland-spurns-hoosiers-focus-turns-langford/

I knew a few days ago. But to be honest, I don't care. Langford is the jewel that IU wants.

[Josh]

I knew a few days ago. But to be honest, I don't care. Langford is the jewel that IU wants.

Yeah I believed Garland was a long shot but it was still worth a hope and he would have been a great get. I just hope that it doesn't hurt us with Langford, getting Garland I believe would have helped IMO.

[Assembly Hall]

The fact is that IU only has one open spot for that class. I think Garland only plays one year in college. I don't know if Archie wants that at this point in time. He has a good recruiting class and will weed out some of Crean's guys.

[Assembly Hall]

http://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2017-11-30/watch-andy-katz-talks-indiana-basketball-coach-archie-miller

[dubc47834]

http://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2017-11-30/watch-andy-katz-talks-indiana-basketball-coach-archie-miller

The more I hear this guy speak, the more I love this guy. I wasn't a fire Tom Crean guy, but I like what Archie has done so far. You can see the team improving each game. The 2 things I thought that killed last year, turnovers and defense, both have been a huge improvement!

[Assembly Hall]

To be honest, Crean never taught defense. And evidently he also didn't care about all the turn-overs. Archie seems to have gotten that fixed in a short period of time. The one thing I like about Miller that IU fans are taking notice of is that if a player screws up he puts them on the bench.

[Hoosier Red]

Not too hard to see this coming.

Curtis Jones to leave the program.

https://twitter.com/StuJTH/status/937434299976077312

[Assembly Hall]

Not too hard to see this coming.

Curtis Jones to leave the program.

https://twitter.com/StuJTH/status/937434299976077312

And the "Creaning" begins......but this time Archie is doing it.

[redsfanmia]

And the "Creaning" begins......but this time Archie is doing it.

Having a guy leave the program because he’s not playing is a lot different than Crean not bringing back a guy in Creek that was an integral part of getting the program back on its feet because he was oft injured, that’s what turned me off of CTC.

[Assembly Hall]

Having a guy leave the program because he’s not playing is a lot different than Crean not bringing back a guy in Creek that was an integral part of getting the program back on its feet because he was oft injured, that’s what turned me off of CTC.

This is my take on Curtis. He was highly recruited by major schools. He chose IU. But didn't play much his freshman year. I firmly believe he would have transferred in the summer. But I think he hung around to check out Archie. It ain't any different. There is no place for him in Bloomington.

[Assembly Hall]

Big game for the Hoosiers tomorrow if they have any dancing aspirations.

[dubc47834]

Big game for the Hoosiers tomorrow if they have any dancing aspirations.

Unfortunately I think its going to be a blood bath! Hope like hell I'm wrong tho!

[Revering4Blue]

Let's be honest, if CAM can somehow lead this team to the big dance, he should be B1G coach of the year. This team simply lacks the offensive firepower of recent seasons, and it's a complete rebuild in the sense that CAM isn't taking shortcuts to appease the casual fan, and, in a sense, remolding the team system-wise in his image. IU was picked tenth or so in the pre-season for a reason.

Give CAM or Chris Holtmann (for argument's sake) last year's IU team (even minus OG) and they're likely a Sweet 16 team. That's likely all it's going to take for either IU or Ohio State to get back to where they theoretically should be. Of the three B1G job openings this year, I felt at the time (and still do) that Illinois was/is the most equipped to win now, though it hasn't really transpired. But, IMHO, once Holtmann, Miller and Underwood get things rolling, the B1G will, once again, reach elite conference status.

I read an interesting post on another board that basically sums up the state of the program. In a nutshell, while Crean obviously recruited players, he (Crean) seemed less inclined to actually build a roster. That's why we ended up with teams with poor roster construction/balance -- the woeful perimeter shooting of the Vonleh team (Creaning Creek was a grievous error), and the lack of size between the Vonleh teams and Bryant teams -- and tended to put all of eggs into one basket. CAM, OTOH, for example, realizes that the team lacks a true PG, athleticsm at the 4, and spot up shooters, regardless of position. That's why he recruited RF to play PG; a still-growing Forrester to compliment Davis, Morgan (If Moore develops as many suggest he will, he'll factor in as well; and the duo of Anderson and Hunter.

One last point (and this is sort of a rant): I'm tired of the narrative that Romeo Langford is a MUST recruit for CAM. Sure, it'd be awesome to land him, but that failing to do so is somehow an indictment of CAM and the IU program as whole if Langford goes elsewhere is bunk. You have to figure that, sooner or later, CAM will begin to land top flight IHSAA talent, as Knight was able to accomplish in his salad days. Step one is repairing the disconnect with the ISHAA coaches that occurred under the previous regimes, and CAM is well on his way to doing so.

[Assembly Hall]

Helluva game. Best I've seen this year.

[dubc47834]

Helluva game. Best I've seen this year.

yes...great win by the boys yesterday. Team is rounding into shape rather nicely. Morgan is going to turn himself into an NBA prospect if he keeps messing around!

[Assembly Hall]

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/indianas-dramatic-win-over-notre-dame-is-why-archie-miller-was-brought-to-bloomington/

[dubc47834]

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/indianas-dramatic-win-over-notre-dame-is-why-archie-miller-was-brought-to-bloomington/

Nice read!

[Boston Red]

I thought IU had figured things out and righted the ship. Guess not.

[Assembly Hall]

I thought IU had figured things out and righted the ship. Guess not.

Hard to beat anybody when you get outscored 51-12 from behind the arc. Not only can't IU hit 3's, but they sure as hell can't guard them either

[dubc47834]

Hard to beat anybody when you get outscored 51-12 from behind the arc. Not only can't IU hit 3's, but they sure as hell can't guard them either

I watched Archie's presser last night. He did not look or sound happy. Said players played selfishly on offense the whole game. He thought the bad offense led to the poor defense. It was an embarrassment last night. I really thought this team had turned a corner after the ND game. I guess not. Not his players tho, and this season was never going to be a tourney season. Al Durham needs to play more. I like what I see from him as a freshman.

[Assembly Hall]

Through 12 games....IU is allowing opponents to shoot 41.3% from behind the arc.

Last night......Fort Wayne 17-30, IU 4-24.

Johnson has got be the worst 4 year starter in IU history. He picked up right where he left off last year. Davis is starting to become an enigma. This roster ain't Archie's.....but it a damn poor one to put it mildly. And if I am going to lose, I do it it with the freshmen in there.

[jimbo]

From a Flyer fan, my biggest beef with AM's teams the first couple of seasons was the inconsistencies on defense. Midway through the third season, I was done with him. As a fan, it was difficult at times seeing a program that was improving. Two months later, they were in the Elite 8.

For me, Archie wasn't a coach that I particularly "liked," for various reasons that aren't important, but the guy is a great coach. IU will continue to have it's inconsistencies the next couple of seasons, but Archie will stick with his plan and once he gets his players who buy into the system, Hoosier fans will be happy they hired him.

[dubc47834]

Through 12 games....IU is allowing opponents to shoot 41.3% from behind the arc.

Last night......Fort Wayne 17-30, IU 4-24.

Johnson has got be the worst 4 year starter in IU history. He picked up right where he left off last year. Davis is starting to become an enigma. This roster ain't Archie's.....but it a damn poor one to put it mildly. And if I am going to lose, I do it it with the freshmen in there.

While I disagree about Johnson being the worst 4 year starter ever, I do agree if we are going to lose do it with freshmen. I have been calling for Durham to receive more playing time from week 1

[Assembly Hall]

While I disagree about Johnson being the worst 4 year starter ever, I do agree if we are going to lose do it with freshmen. I have been calling for Durham to receive more playing time from week 1

Name someone worse than Johnson.

[Revering4Blue]

Indiana hired Archie Miller to perform a rebuild with the Hoosiers, not a miracle

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/news/indiana-hoosiers-basketball-coach-archie-miller-schedule-fort-wayne-hoosiers-crean-krzyzewski/l7rch4ewo2vc1bvw6fge5xosd

[Assembly Hall]

Indiana hired Archie Miller to perform a rebuild with the Hoosiers, not a miracle

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/news/indiana-hoosiers-basketball-coach-archie-miller-schedule-fort-wayne-hoosiers-crean-krzyzewski/l7rch4ewo2vc1bvw6fge5xosd

Good read Rev.

I think alot of IU fans are distraught so far because on the outside it looked like the Hoosiers had key pieces back. What is puzzling to me is how you hang with Seton Hall, Duke, and Louisville. And then beat Notre Dame but yet lose big to Indiana St. and Fort Wayne. That is a head scratcher.

[dubc47834]

Good read Rev.

I think alot of IU fans are distraught so far because on the outside it looked like the Hoosiers had key pieces back. What is puzzling to me is how you hang with Seton Hall, Duke, and Louisville. And then beat Notre Dame but yet lose big to Indiana St. and Fort Wayne. That is a head scratcher.

Lack of leadership. Good leaders won't let teammates play down to bad competition. IU has solid players, just no #1 guy.

[Revering4Blue]

Rather than typing forever, this article/post sums up last night and the season moving forward for me. It's not going to get appreciably better until the roster is essentially CAM's.


Indiana experiences predictable outcome, loses to Wisconsin in Madison by a decent amount

Here’s three things from the latest chapter in an exhausting season.

https://www.crimsonquarry.com/2018/1/2/16843498/indiana-experiences-predictable-outcome-loses-to-wisconsin-in-madison-by-a-decent-amount

[Assembly Hall]

Rather than typing forever, this article/post sums up last night and the season moving forward for me. It's not going to get appreciably better until the roster is essentially CAM's.


Indiana experiences predictable outcome, loses to Wisconsin in Madison by a decent amount

Here’s three things from the latest chapter in an exhausting season.

https://www.crimsonquarry.com/2018/1/2/16843498/indiana-experiences-predictable-outcome-loses-to-wisconsin-in-madison-by-a-decent-amount

At this point in time I am utterly frustrated. That was not a good Wiscy squad.

[dubc47834]

Damn last night was terrible!!! I can't put my finger on the reason, but this team just doesn't play hard or seem to care much if they win or lose. They make passes into the post that junior high school kids would try, just dribble around the perimeter to dribble, and just have a meh attitude about the game. Most of the bench during the game just doesn't seem to be paying attention. Coach is going to have a struggle to get these kids to play the rest of the year. I have been saying since the 1st week of the season, play the younger kids. At least you can see what you have with them. If the upper classmen don't want to play like they love playing the game, get kids in there that will. I never had hopes this team was going to make the big dance, but I did have expectations this team would play hard and come the end of the season be a tough team to play. Maybe that still happens, but it's not looking like it. So frustrating!!! :bang::angry::confused: