Indiana Basketball Continued AGAIN

[Hillsdale87]

As a UD fan, I thought very similar things about Archie mid-way through his third season. A few months later they were an elite 8 team and the program never looked back. Implementing a new system takes time.

I hope you're right. The defense has not been great, but I'm not too worried about that. Defense takes time. Lack of movement on offense is frustrating, but hopefully that gets fixed


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[Revering4Blue]

At this point, I don't think it's reactionary to be nervous about Archie. Lack of talent is not an excuse for the way this team looks. They don't run any discernable offensive system


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I hope you're right. The defense has not been great, but I'm not too worried about that. Defense takes time. Lack of movement on offense is frustrating, but hopefully that gets fixed


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Lack of talent is definitely not an excuse. Thanks mostly to injuries, it's actually a valid reason for the team's inability to (so far) live up to expectations, though -- no matter how unrealistic, in some cases, such expectations were/are.

Regarding the offense, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if CAM hasn't fully implemented his scheme(s), due (at least partially) to turnover concerns. The thinking? A lower possession game favors the team with the least offensive talent against higher-tiered teams if the Hoosiers' defense doesn't break down continually. If so, it's more than fair to disagree with such a course of action. Teams with essentially two scorers (both predominately inside, as Romeo is suspect from the perimeter) are not difficult to defend, placing even more pressure on the defense.

Either way, just as Saturday, when the opposing team is hitting shot after contested shot, while your team is missing several open shots and bricking free throw after free throw, you are not going to win regardless.

[Assembly Hall]

I bet I have watched the Purdue game 7 times in my head and twice on the DVR. And I am still shaking my head. Missing FTs, missing perimeter shots, hell missing lay-ups. The defense was fine. But the fate of the game was at the tail end of the first half.

[Sea Ray]

I bet I have watched the Purdue game 7 times in my head and twice on the DVR. And I am still shaking my head. Missing FTs, missing perimeter shots, hell missing lay-ups. The defense was fine. But the fate of the game was at the tail end of the first half.

Jerry Palm still has 'em as making the tournament, albeit a 9 seed

[Assembly Hall]

Jerry Palm still has 'em as making the tournament, albeit a 9 seed

That would be about right as things stand now.

[Assembly Hall]

Rumors coming out of Bloomington that Devonte Green has been suspended.

[Playadlc]

This team simply sucks.

[Assembly Hall]

This team simply sucks.

Simply? Being kind?

[Sea Ray]

That would be about right as things stand now.

Probably not as of this morning. To an outsider it appears that they're regressing. I don't know why

[Hillsdale87]

Probably not as of this morning. To an outsider it appears that they're regressing. I don't know why

They’re just regressing to the mean. They’re not as bad as they’ve been recently, but they won a number of really close games early which made them look better than they were. Butler was a last second 3. They beat Louisville by 1, NW by 2. They look a little worse now, mainly because of injuries IMO, but I don't think they're toouch different than the team that snuck out some good wins a month ago


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[Assembly Hall]

Probably not as of this morning. To an outsider it appears that they're regressing. I don't know why

They are regressing. They can't shoot the 3, and they can't guard it either. Romeo seems have hit a wall. Nobody has really stepped up to be that consistent third scorer. Right now this team is fighting for a spot in the NIT. Blowing out Marquette seems like 10 years ago.

[Assembly Hall]

And that was just really nice. Don't know if I am up for watching another game the rest of the year.

[Sea Ray]

And that was just really nice. Don't know if I am up for watching another game the rest of the year.

I don't see IU as an NIT team this yr either and I'm questioning the strength of the Big Ten as well. The two teams in Mich look great but I'm not seeing much after that.

Sad to see what's become of Indiana basketball. I don't follow it like you do, has the HS talent in the state dried up? I'm thinking Gene Hackett here.

[Revering4Blue]

Taken from another site. This about sums up the situation (so far) for me.


Does everyone remember the frustration that was the offensively challenged 2013-14 season, with Noah Vonleh and a complete lack of outside shooting? Consider this: That team shot 34.4% from 3 and 73% from the line that season. Now through 20 games, this year's team is shooting 32.2% from 3 and 64.9% from the line.

Pretty simple stuff, really. When you can't shoot the ball, you can't score points, and you can't win. We can debate the offensive scheme, the coaching, or whatever, but when you don't put the ball in the hole you don't win games. I still consider this a personnel issue.

https://www.insidethehall.com/2019/01/25/the-minute-after-michigan-15/

[Assembly Hall]

I don't see IU as an NIT team this yr either and I'm questioning the strength of the Big Ten as well. The two teams in Mich look great but I'm not seeing much after that.

Sad to see what's become of Indiana basketball. I don't follow it like you do, has the HS talent in the state dried up? I'm thinking Gene Hackett here.

No, the talent is still in the state. IU has two frosh starters that are natives. They have two signed for next year from the state and probably will get a third. Archie is recruiting his ass off with-in the state. That being said the state is as good as it ever was for talent.

The B1G is without question the deepest conference in the land.

[Assembly Hall]

Taken from another site. This about sums up the situation (so far) for me.



http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?110704-Indiana-Basketball-Continued-AGAIN/page68

And it sure as hell doesn't help when you are down 17-0 right off the bat.

[Revering4Blue]

And it sure as hell doesn't help when you are down 17-0 right off the bat.

And lack of shooting heavily contributed there. Hell, you can't spot a team like Michigan a 10 point lead, much less 17 points.

Moving forward, assuming Green has played his last game as a Hoosier, I hope to be wrong, but I don't see this team sniffing an NCAA bid unless at least one player who never logged a minute in the Michigan loss comes out of nowhere and contributes heavily. The candidates to do so:

* Clifton Moore - He can't be less effective than Fitzner, can he?

* Race Thompson - Eager to see what he brings to the table.

* Jake Forrester - While likely limited offensively at this point, could easily fill the McRoberts role with much higher upside.

* De'Ron Davis - Even at 70 per cent, he'd be a wondrous help. Alas, that's unlikely to occur, and he's needed for next season.

My dark horse -- and it's a true dark horse, for sure -- for our Aaron Falzone: Vijay Blackmon - Watched him play here at St.Francis. Lower competition or not, just as his older brother, he can shoot.

[Assembly Hall]

And lack of shooting heavily contributed there. Hell, you can't spot a team like Michigan a 10 point lead, much less 17 points.

Moving forward, assuming Green has played his last game as a Hoosier, I hope to be wrong, but I don't see this team sniffing an NCAA bid unless at least one player who never logged a minute in the Michigan loss comes out of nowhere and contributes heavily. The candidates to do so:

* Clifton Moore - He can't be less effective than Fitzner, can he?

* Race Thompson - Eager to see what he brings to the table.

* Jake Forrester - While likely limited offensively at this point, could easily fill the McRoberts role with much higher upside.

* De'Ron Davis - Even at 70 per cent, he'd be a wondrous help. Alas, that's unlikely to occur, and he's needed for next season.

My dark horse -- and it's a true dark horse, for sure -- for our Aaron Falzone: Vijay Blackmon - Watched him play here at St.Francis. Lower competition or not, just as his older brother, he can shoot.

Well what we got sure as hell ain't working. I have said it over and over again....Fitzner and McRoberts should never see the floor.

And now I am wondering about Smith as well, talented? Yes. But he seems not to care.

And I love the Blackmon twist........the kid can shoot.

Need to shake something up here.

[Revering4Blue]

Well what we got sure as hell ain't working. I have said it over and over again....Fitzner and McRoberts should never see the floor.

And now I am wondering about Smith as well, talented? Yes. But he seems not to care.

And I love the Blackmon twist........the kid can shoot.

Need to shake something up here.

It was one thing thing to start McRob to pick the early fouls and such to enable Green and Durham to come off the bench to (hopefully) change the complexion of the game, with either Green or Durham starting the second half. But there's no way I can defend giving McRob (who is obviously still attempting to play with back issues) 20 plus minutes a night. So, yes, McRob and Fitzner -- who has been given chance after chance -- should be relegated to spot players (if foul issues arise) at best.

Smith is about what I envisioned at this point: More athlete than basketball player; Possibly solid rotational player down the line, but by no means a foundational player.

We'll see what happens Wednesday against Rutgers, which isn't a gimme by any means.

[Playadlc]

Anyone hear anything about a fight that took place that has split the team up?

[Assembly Hall]

Anyone hear anything about a fight that took place that has split the team up?

First I have heard of anything like that. I have heard of some dissension among the ranks. Now what they are, I have no idea.

[Hoosier Red]

Anyone hear anything about a fight that took place that has split the team up?

If a fight took place, I'd assume everyone on the team would fail to show up.

[Assembly Hall]

If a fight took place, I'd assume everyone on the team would fail to show up.

Well they haven't been for six games in a row now!

[Playadlc]

Total implosion.

This team played over their head early on, but Jesus. They are absolutely horrible.

[WMR]

My first time watching IU this season...

Not sure exactly what I just watched.

That's 7 losses in a row. Is Archie gonna get fired?

How's recruiting going?

The team I watched tonight appeared totally rudderless.

[Assembly Hall]

My first time watching IU this season...

Not sure exactly what I just watched.

That's 7 losses in a row. Is Archie gonna get fired?

How's recruiting going?

The team I watched tonight appeared totally rudderless.

Pretty much what we have been watching all year...sans the Marquette game.

They got a burger boy coming in next year...a big. Dale Davis' son.

Archie is squarely on the hot seat, and I think he is in over his head.

[WVRed]

Pretty much what we have been watching all year...sans the Marquette game.

They got a burger boy coming in next year...a big. Dale Davis' son.

Archie is squarely on the hot seat, and I think he is in over his head.

I hear Steve Alford is available.

I always thought Archie got Indiana too quick. Should have taken a lesser job after his elite eight appearance before being snatched up by a blue blood.

He’s really wasted having Romeo Langford there.

[Assembly Hall]

I hear Steve Alford is available.

I always thought Archie got Indiana too quick. Should have taken a lesser job after his elite eight appearance before being snatched up by a blue blood.

He’s really wasted having Romeo Langford there.

The IU fan base wants nothing to do with Steve Alford.

I didn't really follow Archie at UD, but he did fit the profile of what IU was looking for...a good, young, successful coach.

Now Romeo, TBH...the kid has not lived up to his hype. He can't shoot from behind the arc and he doesn't hustle whatsoever on the defensive end. Right now he is just a good player, not the great one that most IU fans thought he would be. His game is flawed and it is showing.

[Sea Ray]

Just stay away from Rick Barnes...

[Hillsdale87]

The IU fan base wants nothing to do with Steve Alford.

I didn't really follow Archie at UD, but he did fit the profile of what IU was looking for...a good, young, successful coach.

Now Romeo, TBH...the kid has not lived up to his hype. He can't shoot from behind the arc and he doesn't hustle whatsoever on the defensive end. Right now he is just a good player, not the great one that most IU fans thought he would be. His game is flawed and it is showing.

I think it's too early to say that Archie is in over his head, but he's certainly done a bad job with this team. That said, I'm not sure there's a scenario where this would be a good team right now. There was not much left when Crean left. Archie did a pretty good job bringing in a good recruiting class in year one. As a result, this team wasn't going to have a lot of stars, but was supposed to have depth. The number of injuries has crippled them, and anybody beyond the top 5 guys right now is bad.

Nobody on the team is even an average outside shooter. And Romeo has not had nearly the impact fans were expecting. He's good, but he doesn't really have much of an impact on games, and he is a really terrible shooter. His jump shot is completely broken. Teams have figured that out, and he's struggled a lot recently. He scored a lot last night, but it was mostly garbage points. It's unfortunate, but if he's gone after this year, I think he's going to be remembered like Noah Vonleh - a good player who ultimately had little impact on the program. That said, I think an NBA team would be crazy to draft him in the lottery. Unless his jump shot gets fixed, I don't think he can provide any value in the NBA right now. If he has a chance to go in the lottery though, he needs to leave because another year like this one would sink him

[WVRed]

The IU fan base wants nothing to do with Steve Alford.

I didn't really follow Archie at UD, but he did fit the profile of what IU was looking for...a good, young, successful coach.

Now Romeo, TBH...the kid has not lived up to his hype. He can't shoot from behind the arc and he doesn't hustle whatsoever on the defensive end. Right now he is just a good player, not the great one that most IU fans thought he would be. His game is flawed and it is showing.

Should speak volumes that Calipari stopped recruiting him and essentially benched him during the World Cup. Sad part is he will likely be in Bloomington for one year and flame out in the G-League.

The problem with youth is inexperience. Minus the alcohol and surliness, Archie Miller is the IU version of Billy Gillespie. He’s not a good fit unless fans are willing to be patient and let him learn on the job. Needless to say, that isn’t going to happen at Indiana, nor should it.

And I was kidding about Alford. [emoji846]

[Assembly Hall]

Should speak volumes that Calipari stopped recruiting him and essentially benched him during the World Cup. Sad part is he will likely be in Bloomington for one year and flame out in the G-League.

The problem with youth is inexperience. Minus the alcohol and surliness, Archie Miller is the IU version of Billy Gillespie. He’s not a good fit unless fans are willing to be patient and let him learn on the job. Needless to say, that isn’t going to happen at Indiana, nor should it.

And I was kidding about Alford. [emoji846]

Not what I heard about Cal at all with Romeo.

The natives are restless in B-town and rightfully so.

And thank God you were kidding about Steve. LOL

[WVRed]

Not what I heard about Cal at all with Romeo.

The natives are restless in B-town and rightfully so.

And thank God you were kidding about Steve. LOL

I was pretty much going by this:

https://usatodayhss.com/2018/romeo-langford-recruiting-john-calipari-kentucky

I think the “helicopter dad” had more to do with Cal ending the Romeo courtship.

[Assembly Hall]

I was pretty much going by this:

https://usatodayhss.com/2018/romeo-langford-recruiting-john-calipari-kentucky

I think the “helicopter dad” had more to do with Cal ending the Romeo courtship.

Well, that is one side of it. But there are countless more out there. Water over the dam...he is at IU. And Archie got him there.

[Sea Ray]

Great game for you guys! You know how hard it is for a road team to win in OT? Nobody saw this coming. Party up Hoosiers!

[Assembly Hall]

Great game for you guys! You know how hard it is for a road team to win in OT? Nobody saw this coming. Party up Hoosiers!

I think everyone in the nation saw how good this IU team "could" be. They need to bring that effort every night. I need another drink!!!!

[Hillsdale87]

I think everyone in the nation saw how good this IU team "could" be. They need to bring that effort every night. I need another drink!!!!

Last night was awesome. Really makes you wish Davis could get healthy. He's really hard to defend and makes such a huge impact. Definitely the key to the game. Green was good too outside of that terrible TO at the end.


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[Assembly Hall]

Last night was awesome. Really makes you wish Davis could get healthy. He's really hard to defend and makes such a huge impact. Definitely the key to the game. Green was good too outside of that terrible TO at the end.


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De'Ron is a difference maker for this team and I would say the same about Devonte.

[Revering4Blue]

I think everyone in the nation saw how good this IU team "could" be. They need to bring that effort every night. I need another drink!!!!

I hear 'ya and don't disagree. However...

All of the effort in the World likely wouldn't have produced a victory without Davis and Green producing as they did. The other bigs, sans Morgan, can't approximate Davis' production at this point. Likewise, it's unreasonable to expect Anderson (who is not yet ready for prime-time) and McRoberts (who was playing injured and, well, just isn't very good) to fill Green's shoes.

That said, prior to Saturday night's game, I was also concerned about 1)The players tuning out CAM. 2)Lack of on-court leadership. Thankfully, those aforementioned issues were not really evident.

[Revering4Blue]

De'Ron is a difference maker for this team and I would say the same about Devonte.

Having De'Ron in the game establishing himself as a force created better shots for everyone.

If Devonte is focused, the one-two punch of DG and RP could be lethal, with Green obviously playing with RP and Romeo at times. Despite Morgan's injury, it's still mind boggling that the Hoosiers managed to win at the Breslin center with no contributions from RP.

Man, if DG and RP can both produce/heavily contribute at the same time, we wouldn't have to so concerned about the offense bogging down when Morgan, Romeo and Davis are off the floor.

[Hoosier Red]

I hear 'ya and don't disagree. However...

All of the effort in the World likely wouldn't have produced a victory without Davis and Green producing as they did. The other bigs, sans Morgan, can't approximate Davis' production at this point. Likewise, it's unreasonable to expect Anderson (who is not yet ready for prime-time) and McRoberts (who was playing injured and, well, just isn't very good) to fill Green's shoes.

That said, prior to Saturday night's game, I was also concerned about 1)The players tuning out CAM. 2)Lack of on-court leadership. Thankfully, those aforementioned issues were not really evident.

Especially when discussing college athletics, I think a lot of times people ascribe actions to either a)lack of effort or b)tuning out the coach when they are instead due to a lack of confidence. Certainly lacking confidence can also result in a lack of effort and/or tuning out the coach, but I think it's independent of those two more nefarious issues. The good news is that I think a lack of confidence can be fixed than a lack of effort or players tuning out the coach.

Where this team has struggled in my mind is that the majority of the roster was essentially looking at Juwan Morgan and Romeo Langford and not really getting a lot to feed off of for whatever reason.

Romeo can be shut down offensively if the rest of the team can't effectively space the floor. The biggest difference in this game was that 1)Everyone had some success shooting which opened things up which gave Langford the room he needed, and 2)Morgan being off the floor galvanized everyone to play well for him.

This team reminds me in a lot of ways of the 2011-2012 team. A lot of younger players essentially over deferred to Verdell Jones on that team, not because Jones was a greedy ball hog, but just because the personalities of those players just led them to be defer to him too much. In February of that year, he got injured and missed the next 5-6 games. He never started again, and that team seemed to coalesce some more around the quality underclassmen.

[Assembly Hall]

I hear 'ya and don't disagree. However...

All of the effort in the World likely wouldn't have produced a victory without Davis and Green producing as they did. The other bigs, sans Morgan, can't approximate Davis' production at this point. Likewise, it's unreasonable to expect Anderson (who is not yet ready for prime-time) and McRoberts (who was playing injured and, well, just isn't very good) to fill Green's shoes.

That said, prior to Saturday night's game, I was also concerned about 1)The players tuning out CAM. 2)Lack of on-court leadership. Thankfully, those aforementioned issues were not really evident.

Someone had an interesting stat on one of the IU sites. The Hoosiers have only lost 1 game this year when Davis and Green played in the same game. Now how true that is, I dunno.

[Revering4Blue]

Someone had an interesting stat on one of the IU sites. The Hoosiers have only lost 1 game this year when Davis and Green played in the same game. Now how true that is, I dunno.

Not true. Both played in the Maryland, Nebraska and Purdue games.

Davis, though, was majorly hobbled from the rolled ankle in the Illinois game. That’s got to factor in there somewhere.

[Assembly Hall]

Not true. Both played in the Maryland, Nebraska and Purdue games.

Davis, though, was majorly hobbled from the rolled ankle in the Illinois game. That’s got to factor in there somewhere.

I went back and looked at that post....when they both played in the same game, and logged more than 5 minutes each.

[Assembly Hall]

Juwan is practicing with the team.

[Revering4Blue]

Who’s to blame for Indiana’s struggles? You pick.

https://www.crimsonquarry.com/2019/2/12/18220644/blame-who-you-want-to-blame-indiana-hoosiers-basketball-archie-miller-romeo-langford-nba-draft

[Assembly Hall]

Who’s to blame for Indiana’s struggles? You pick.

https://www.crimsonquarry.com/2019/2/12/18220644/blame-who-you-want-to-blame-indiana-hoosiers-basketball-archie-miller-romeo-langford-nba-draft

Rumor has it there was a locker room altercation after the Ohio St. loss.

[Assembly Hall]

Archie says drastic changes are coming? The season is not over yet...there is still a chance. I need another drink.

[cumberlandreds]

Over 1,00 posts and I will close this one. Looks like you guys have already started another one. So carry on there.