USMNT - Russia 2018 WC

[BuckeyeRed27]

WC Qualifying is off to a horrible start after losing to Guatemala last Friday. They play the same team tonight in Columbus and is basically a must win (chances of qualifying go below 10% with a loss and only about 45% with a draw).

My line up guess tonight is:

Guzan

Yedlin Gonzo Cameron Castillo
Beckerman Bradley
Zardes Nagbe
Dempsey Wood

[Yachtzee]

I was a Klinsmann supporter for his first World Cup cycle, but now I'm of the mind that it's time to move on. I was on board when he talked about having the US play an attacking possession-oriented game, but two years after the World Cup and it seems like Klinsmann has completely lost the plot. With the constant roster tinkering and playing players out of position, there's just no cohesion.

Listening to SiriusXMFC this morning, I actually heard a discussion about whether Klinsmann would play Christian Pulisic so that he will be cap-tied to the USMNT. I get it that Klinsmann wants to grow his talent pool by cap-tying any potential dual nationals, but right now it's about getting results and qualifying. Pulisic does us no good if he's sitting at home with the rest of us in 2018. Tonight it's do or most likely die time. Nothing else matters.

[BuckeyeRed27]

I was a Klinsmann supporter for his first World Cup cycle, but now I'm of the mind that it's time to move on. I was on board when he talked about having the US play an attacking possession-oriented game, but two years after the World Cup and it seems like Klinsmann has completely lost the plot. With the constant roster tinkering and playing players out of position, there's just no cohesion.

Listening to SiriusXMFC this morning, I actually heard a discussion about whether Klinsmann would play Christian Pulisic so that he will be cap-tied to the USMNT. I get it that Klinsmann wants to grow his talent pool by cap-tying any potential dual nationals, but right now it's about getting results and qualifying. Pulisic does us no good if he's sitting at home with the rest of us in 2018. Tonight it's do or most likely die time. Nothing else matters.

I can see him bringing him on as a sub if we are winning, but I think Jurgen knows what's at stake here. That is why he's going to run out Beckerman and maybe even Altidore to start. It's a bit of a bummer than Fabian Johnson and Brooks aren't available, but we should still have enough depth to make up for that.

[westofyou]

They looked dead last week, just dead, with the ball and without the ball. Horrible

[BuckeyeRed27]

They looked dead last week, just dead, with the ball and without the ball. Horrible

Both goals were awful. They didn't look creative, but they did create shots. I think they fired right at the keep 5 or 6 times. I think Bedoya hit him 3 times that I can remember.

[RedTeamGo!]

Clint says chill:

10530

[improbus]

I love the USMNT, but I think we have punched above our weight in the World Cup for years. It worries me that we simply aren't producing players that can make it in the biggest leagues in the world. Most every guy we send to Europe's bigger clubs ends up not playing/underperforming. I'm just not seeing the talent coming through, and I don't necessarily blame the coach. We blamed Arena, and Bradley, and Klinsmann, etc... for not developing players. Maybe the coach is misusing the talent, but it is limited talent.

And of course, as I type this, the US scores again. Maybe I should keep moaning.

[RedTeamGo!]

I love the USMNT, but I think we have punched above our weight in the World Cup for years. It worries me that we simply aren't producing players that can make it in the biggest leagues in the world. Most every guy we send to Europe's bigger clubs ends up not playing/underperforming. I'm just not seeing the talent coming through, and I don't necessarily blame the coach. We blamed Arena, and Bradley, and Klinsmann, etc... for not developing players. Maybe the coach is misusing the talent, but it is limited talent.

And of course, as I type this, the US scores again. Maybe I should keep moaning.

I think Yedlin, Johanssen, Miazga, Pulisic, Hyndmann, and a few others are showing some pretty good promise overseas.

[RedTeamGo!]

I think Geoff Cameron has turned into a pretty solid player as well with Stoke.

[improbus]

But I'm not sure that list puts us any further ahead of where we were ten years ago.

Now, MLS has certainly improved, and it's improvement is the single most important factor in the USMNT improving. We need to build a larger and larger talent base and MLS and its feeder programs are vital.

[RedTeamGo!]

But I'm not sure that list puts us any further ahead of where we were ten years ago.

Now, MLS has certainly improved, and it's improvement is the single most important factor in the USMNT improving. We need to build a larger and larger talent base and MLS and its feeder programs are vital.

And it's happening. Cap-tying Pulsic tonight is huuuuuge. Dude has a chance to be special.

[Yachtzee]

But I'm not sure that list puts us any further ahead of where we were ten years ago.

Now, MLS has certainly improved, and it's improvement is the single most important factor in the USMNT improving. We need to build a larger and larger talent base and MLS and its feeder programs are vital.

Well, if you look at 10 years ago, the USMNT was having a pretty dismal experience at the 2006 World Cup, where they crashed out with a total of 1 point. The problem with expectations is that making the quarterfinals in 2002 really skewed expectations for a lot of people. I keep hearing talk about how great we did with Bruce Arena in 2002 and how we've regressed since then. But I don't think that's true. The USMNT in 2002 really went beyond expectations. It was followed by 2006 where they qualified easily, were ranked fourth in the World, and crashed out of the World Cup. Was the USMNT really the 4th ranked national team in the world? No. But due to the way FIFA does it's rankings, which are completely flawed, people actually thought the USMNT was better than it actually was.

The current state of soccer in the US is such that the quality of players and the players available to the USMNT is leaps and bounds better than what it was in 2002. Between MLS and players on teams overseas, the USMNT has a wealth of talent available. The problem right now is that Klinsmann, while he has great notions of what style of play he'd like the USMNT to play, he seems like he's suffering from ADHD when it comes to actually setting a lineup and providing that lineup with a clear strategy. Bringing in all kinds of players and churning the lineup may make sense when you're starting out and trying to see what talent you have on hand, but at some point you have to make a consistent strategy.

MLS is growing, academy programs are way beyond what they were 10 years ago and are bearing fruit for a lot of teams. Qualifying for the World Cup shouldn't be a problem. I'm of the opinion that the USMNT has the talent on hand to qualify for 2018 easily. They just lack direction at this point. I think the problem right now is that Klinsmann keeps churning the roster to try to find the right combo to fit the style he wants to play, when really he should be adapting his style based on the players he has available.

[Yachtzee]

Big result for the USMNT tonight. Really helps put them back into a safer position for qualification.

Meanwhile, the U-23 team is having a real problem against Colombia. Not that it's the sole issue tonight, as the play on the field isn't that great, but why play this match in Frisco, Texas? I'm a firm believer that the USMNT, whether the senior squad or the U-23 squad, should not play important matches against Latin American teams in the the South or Southwestern US. So many yellow jerseys in that crowd tonight that might not be there if the game were being played in Kansas City, Seattle, or Portland (with Columbus being unavailable due to hosting the WCQ tonight).

[bucksfan2]

But I'm not sure that list puts us any further ahead of where we were ten years ago.

Now, MLS has certainly improved, and it's improvement is the single most important factor in the USMNT improving. We need to build a larger and larger talent base and MLS and its feeder programs are vital.

Actually, I think the success of the MLS may be hurting the USMNT. I think its a good thing that the league has taken off and is getting a lot of money into the sport, but I also think that is playing into some of my disappointment with several US players. IMO Bradley was one of the best US midfilders I have ever seen, but his play has gone down hill since he has joined the MLS. His touch is sloppy, he is no longer the guy who can control the midfield of a game, it seems like he is getting by on fitness and athletic ability more now than he ever has. Altidore has gone from one of the more promising forwards in the game to a guy who isn't starting for the US. I think there is a reason that guys like Terry and Gerrard come to the MLS late in their career, its because they can get that big payday while also not playing at the highest level. You get people excited about Tim Howard coming to American, when the real reason is he is getting old, and is the #2 GK for his club.

I watch some of the game last night and I think they looked good intensity wise. They took it to a team they were better than, but there still was that sloppiness that separates the good teams from the average teams. You see a different level of ball control from the good European clubs compared to the US. I think Jurgen is right in getting the younger guys the most European experience as possible, but I bet he wishes his better players would stick it out over there longer.

I do think the USMNT faces a challenge in playing in these Banana Republics, in the early season with high heat and humidity that they aren't used to.

[BuckeyeRed27]

MLS isn't hurting the USMNT. Bradley hasn't regressed, and Altidore wasn't starting because he's coming off an injury. The US has struggled recently because Jurgen has badly mishandled roster turnover and lineups in this cycle so far. Last night was the first time he put a line up that made any kind of sense since the Belgium game and oh look we scored 4 goals.

If MLS has hurt the USMNT in any way it is in making the other CONCACAF nations better, by giving them a good league to play in and develop. Sure guys like Gerrard will get a pay day because they help sell tickets, but he isn't even one of the best 7 or 8 players on the LA Galaxy right now. Most teams have solid rotation players that play for Honduras, Jamaica, Costa Rica, etc. that are making the whole league and their national teams better.

[IslandRed]

I love the USMNT, but I think we have punched above our weight in the World Cup for years. It worries me that we simply aren't producing players that can make it in the biggest leagues in the world. Most every guy we send to Europe's bigger clubs ends up not playing/underperforming. I'm just not seeing the talent coming through, and I don't necessarily blame the coach. We blamed Arena, and Bradley, and Klinsmann, etc... for not developing players. Maybe the coach is misusing the talent, but it is limited talent.

And of course, as I type this, the US scores again. Maybe I should keep moaning.

Can't agree enough on the bolded part. Maybe qualifying for the World Cup is a realistic expectation given our regional competition, but advancing beyond group play is gravy as far as I'm concerned. We're not one of the 16 most talented countries. Not close, really. Yes, there is maybe more depth of "good" than there used to be, and some intriguing prospects. But with Tim Howard in the decline phase of his career, we don't have anyone who immediately springs to mind as a world-class player. If the World Cup started today:

1) Who is the best player on the U.S. World Cup roster?

2) Could he even make the squad of the European and South American powerhouses?

Heck, with the current lack of star power, I'm wondering if we have anyone who'd be a lock to make Spain's "best 23 left out" squad.

Now, having said all that, only eleven can play at a time and having a cohesive eleven goes a long way toward neutralizing a more talented eleven. I don't have a strong opinion on what the most cohesive U.S. squad looks like, but Klinsmann needs to find it. He may have been guilty of some "surely we'll qualify" hubris and didn't transition from the talent-identification/experimenting phase to the find-your-best-team phase quickly enough in this cycle.

[improbus]

MLS isn't hurting the USMNT. Bradley hasn't regressed, and Altidore wasn't starting because he's coming off an injury. The US has struggled recently because Jurgen has badly mishandled roster turnover and lineups in this cycle so far. Last night was the first time he put a line up that made any kind of sense since the Belgium game and oh look we scored 4 goals.

If MLS has hurt the USMNT in any way it is in making the other CONCACAF nations better, by giving them a good league to play in and develop. Sure guys like Gerrard will get a pay day because they help sell tickets, but he isn't even one of the best 7 or 8 players on the LA Galaxy right now. Most teams have solid rotation players that play for Honduras, Jamaica, Costa Rica, etc. that are making the whole league and their national teams better.

It is better in the short term for our best guys to go to Europe, but MLS is very important to devoloping long term improvement. I wish MLS would work harder to promote skill and ability in the way they officiate the game. MLS has a hard time devloping real ball handlers and skilled players because any time you have the ball for longer than a second or two, some worse version of Kyle Beckerman is chopping you down. Or Kyle Beckerman himself is chopping you down. If they started booting guys from games the way they do in European leagues, they might begin to promote a more skilled version of the game here.

The Premier League did this. It (and the old First Division) used to be the Wild West of leagues where guys would massacre one another. That doesn't mean that the defending is bad, it had just removed the needless fouling that kept the skilled players from flourishing. MLS must do the same.

[improbus]

We do well in the WC for the following reasons:
1) Because we are in CONCACAF, we always qualify. You can't win in the WC if you don't make it.
2) We drag most games into the mud and prevent the other team from doing what they want to do.
3) We are unusually good on set pieces.
4) Strong goaltending.

I would be really curious to know what our goal differential would be historically if you removed set pieces.

[Yachtzee]

We do well in the WC for the following reasons:
1) Because we are in CONCACAF, we always qualify. You can't win in the WC if you don't make it.
2) We drag most games into the mud and prevent the other team from doing what they want to do.
3) We are unusually good on set pieces.
4) Strong goaltending.

I would be really curious to know what our goal differential would be historically if you removed set pieces.

I would take issue with #2. Having watched the USMNT since 1994, I'd say more often than not, it's the other teams dragging the game into the mud. The USMNT doesn't really have a reputation for being dirty. Traditionally the USMNT has been considered to be extremely athletic, able to run and jump with the best of them, if not technically gifted. They've also been seen as a team less likely to resort to cynical fouls and diving. There have been countless instances where Americans have been on the receiving end of brutal fouls and the other team doesn't even get carded because the US player didn't spend 5 minutes playing like he was shot. A bigger issue right now is that I think a lot of other countries have adopted American-style strength and conditioning programs, so it's more difficult to outrun and outjump them.

As far as MLS goes, the quality has grown by leaps and bounds in the last decade and there are a number of teams playing attractive soccer. There are also quite a few players playing in Europe. I think the difference now is that a many players are choosing to play in an improving MLS rather that ride the pines in the EPL or ply their trade in Scandinavia or Scotland.

The issue we have is that we still haven't fleshed out the professional academy system so that players gain the technical skills at an earlier age. We still have a lot of players who develop through traditional channels like club, high school, and college soccer, which means many US players aren't getting professional experience until they are 20-21 years old. Sending players to Europe isn't going to change that. What will is continuing to grow the sport in the US by supporting MLS, NASL, and USL, which will result in more TV money, which in turn results in more money invested in bringing in quality talent and more money for scouting and development.

[improbus]

I guess by, "drag the game into the mud", I meant that we try to play a game that more fits our lesser skill level. Your assessment of our playing style is largely correct.

[Big Red Smokey]

Had great 2nd row seats last night

https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/t31.0-8/12898182_627375010746797_6663246001088580406_o.jpg

[Caveat Emperor]

MLS quality has grown by leaps and bounds, but if you're a kid with elite-level options athletically, you're still going to be pushed towards the payday that potentially comes with playing in the NFL, NBA or MLB.

Like it or not, those athletes signing gaudy contracts and endorsement deals impact what sports kids get involved with.

[Yachtzee]

MLS quality has grown by leaps and bounds, but if you're a kid with elite-level options athletically, you're still going to be pushed towards the payday that potentially comes with playing in the NFL, NBA or MLB.

Like it or not, those athletes signing gaudy contracts and endorsement deals impact what sports kids get involved with.

Sorry, but I think that is a fallacy for three reasons: 1.) The United States easily produces the most World Class athletes in the World, bar none. Not only do we have the best professional leagues in baseball, American football, and Basketball, but we also supply a significant number of NHL players and are one of the dominant countries in both the Summer and Winter Olympics. We produce World Class athletes in sports that don't bring in revenue outside of the Olympics. 2.) The USMNT is already known for being athletically strong. Our players tend to be bigger and faster than a lot of their opponents as it is. 3.) Most of the players choosing to play in the NFL, NBA, and MLB are not physically ideal for playing soccer. Those sports favor the tall and muscular. In soccer, those players would likely be pushed toward playing keeper, a position for which the US already has a history of producing top talent. Otherwise, they would likely be central defenders or strikers strong in the air. Guess what, we're already good at producing those types of players too.

I've had this argument countless times with friends who seem to think we'd win a World Cup if LeBron James played soccer. Well, sorry to break it to anyone who believes that, but if LeBron James were born in Brazil, Argentina, Germany, Italy, etc., he'd probably still be a basketball player and he'd still be in the NBA. Guys who are 6'8" and above typically play basketball, no matter which country grew up in. Probably the tallest soccer player I can think of that has played regularly in top flight soccer is Peter Crouch at 6'7". He towers above everyone and no one would mistake him for the LeBron James of soccer. The average height of international pro soccer players is around 5'9". Lionel Messi, one of the World's greatest, is 5'7". Sebastian Giovinco, reigning MLS MVP, is all of 5'5". When Spain won the World Cup, I don't think any of their players aside from goalkeeper Iker Casillas broke 6'. Soccer is not a sport that necessarily favors the biggest, strongest, or the fastest. It favors players who are good with a ball at their feet and players who have the spacial awareness of where to be on a field with 21 other players.

If you look at the USMNT today, you can see we already have great athletes. For a soccer player, Jozy Altidore is already considered a physical specimen. When I was in England this past summer, everyone I talked to about soccer would tell me they thought DeAndre Yedlin could possibly be the fastest player they've ever seen in the Premier League. The USMNT doesn't need more super athletes. They need soccer players with professional soccer intelligence.

So where does soccer intelligence come from? Well, part of it is generational. You learn it from your parents and your older siblings, and you learn it from watching on TV. Right now we're still in an era where most people who grew up playing soccer learned it from coaches who grew up playing baseball, basketball and football and came to soccer later in life. So what they can teach their kids is still limited by their own experience. The other place players learn is from playing the game itself. Issue there is that our youth development system is focused on a combination of pay-to-play travel soccer and high school and college programs. In those environments, the focus is often on winning over player development, so you often get teams where the strategy centers on playing your biggest, strongest, and/or fastest player up top and having the rest of the team focus on getting the ball to that main guy and letting him just power through the defense. It's great if you've got an early bloomer who can run roughshod over the other kids in his age group, but it doesn't really help the other kids improve their soccer skills. We could have a potential Lionel Messi or a Sebastian Giovinco playing in the US youth ranks today, but because he's on the small side, coaches may well be overlooking him in favor of the big kid who is faster and stronger than everyone else. I suspect many of the players who could end up being excellent soccer players probably get overlooked, don't get the attention they need, are left to fend for themselves, have friends whose interests lie somewhere other than soccer, and they either drift away from the sport, or get just good enough to get to college and end up giving up the sport in favor of getting a degree in some non-sporting field, simply because they aren't physical specimens at a young age.

And for the record, I also don't buy the old argument that other countries are great at soccer because the players grow up playing in poverty on the streets. Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo may not have grown up in wealth, but they also didn't learn all of their soccer playing with no shoes in the streets. And when it comes to most European countries, kids aren't playing in the streets at all. The reality is that most kids who have any kind of talent for the game are identified early and brought into the youth system of professional clubs. Messi started playing for the youth side of pro team Newell's Old Boys at the age of 6. Imagine that. Most of our kids are playing rec league soccer with dad-coaches at 6. He was playing for a youth academy team coached by professional coaches at 6.

So how do we change that? Well, I think part of that change is coming in the way of MLS, NASL, and USL teams, as well as teams from Europe and Mexico, starting up their own academies here in the US. At least now we have some basic structure evolving to help identify youth players at a young age and get them into a system where they get good quality coaching from an organization whose goal is more focused on producing quality soccer players rather than short term win loss records. I think the other thing the USSF should consider is getting on board with the rest of the world with regard to solidarity payments, which are payments a club that developed a player receives from subsequent clubs when that player is sold. I think solidarity payments will permit more travel teams to get away from a pay-to-play model, which will be good for kids who can't afford the $1000s it can cost for travel soccer, and will also give the clubs a monetary incentive to teach good soccer to as many players as possible so as to increase the chances that their players may develop into professional players.

[RedTeamGo!]

Otherwise, they would likely be central defenders or strikers strong in the air. Guess what, we're already good at producing those types of players too.

I agree with a lot of what you have written, but I have to question this statement. It seems to me we have been weak at central defense for going on 10 years.

[BuckeyeRed27]

I agree with a lot of what you have written, but I have to question this statement. It seems to me we have been weak at central defense for going on 10 years.

The Gooch/Bocanegra pairing was a strength for early part of that 10 year period. There hasn't been as much consistency recently but guys look Brooks, Besler, Gonzalez and Cameron are all quality players. We've had a lot more trouble finding a LB than central defenders for sure.

[Yachtzee]

I agree with a lot of what you have written, but I have to question this statement. It seems to me we have been weak at central defense for going on 10 years.

Central defense has been hit and miss, but I put that mainly on a lack of a consistent lineup. Central defense is one of those areas where your two defenders have to have a good rapport and a good understanding of what the other guy is going to do because they have to react to that. It's really a position that needs to be played in tandem. That lack of consistency can also lead to issues on set pieces when attackers go unmarked. The other issue is that Klinsmann hasn't always been good about playing a true central defensive mid to provide cover for the back line. The defense seems to do better when they have a true CDM like Kyle Beckerman providing cover as opposed to having Michael Bradley or Jermaine Jones playing there, as Bradley and Jones aren't really CDMs and like to get foward to be involved in the attacking build up. If the midfield is going forward and your RB and LB are playing as overlapping wings, as guys like Fabian Johnson and DeAndre Yedlin often do, then the two CBs are left to defend on an island. It leaves them very much vulnerable to the counter.

[Caveat Emperor]

I've had this argument countless times with friends who seem to think we'd win a World Cup if LeBron James played soccer. Well, sorry to break it to anyone who believes that, but if LeBron James were born in Brazil, Argentina, Germany, Italy, etc., he'd probably still be a basketball player and he'd still be in the NBA. Guys who are 6'8" and above typically play basketball, no matter which country grew up in. Probably the tallest soccer player I can think of that has played regularly in top flight soccer is Peter Crouch at 6'7". He towers above everyone and no one would mistake him for the LeBron James of soccer. The average height of international pro soccer players is around 5'9". Lionel Messi, one of the World's greatest, is 5'7". Sebastian Giovinco, reigning MLS MVP, is all of 5'5". When Spain won the World Cup, I don't think any of their players aside from goalkeeper Iker Casillas broke 6'. Soccer is not a sport that necessarily favors the biggest, strongest, or the fastest. It favors players who are good with a ball at their feet and players who have the spacial awareness of where to be on a field with 21 other players.

The issue isn't "our best athletes don't play soccer," it's that our best athletes don't play soccer early enough in their lives as a first-choice sport. If you look around the world, the greatest players grow up with a soccer ball on their feet and sign into professional academies before they're old enough to shave. For the US to close the gap with the rest of the world and/or start to produce generational type talents, we need parents to think "soccer" when they notice their kids starting to display athletic aptitude at any early age. Instead, they think "NBA" or "NFL" and a lot of kids get pushed to those sports. By the time they hit their growth spurts and top out short of what would be required to play in those sports and switch to soccer, it's already too late to go back and make up the training time that their international peers would have had.

It isn't about getting LeBron James to play soccer, it's about getting the kid like Tyler Ulis (5'9" slashing PG from Kentucky) to play soccer -- where he has absolutely no future as an NBA player, but has the feet, speed and vision to possibly have been a killer attacking mid if we had a country that considered soccer a top option for kids.

[thatcoolguy_22]

So where does soccer intelligence come from? Well, part of it is generational. You learn it from your parents and your older siblings, and you learn it from watching on TV. Right now we're still in an era where most people who grew up playing soccer learned it from coaches who grew up playing baseball, basketball and football and came to soccer later in life. So what they can teach their kids is still limited by their own experience. The other place players learn is from playing the game itself. Issue there is that our youth development system is focused on a combination of pay-to-play travel soccer and high school and college programs. In those environments, the focus is often on winning over player development, so you often get teams where the strategy centers on playing your biggest, strongest, and/or fastest player up top and having the rest of the team focus on getting the ball to that main guy and letting him just power through the defense. It's great if you've got an early bloomer who can run roughshod over the other kids in his age group, but it doesn't really help the other kids improve their soccer skills. We could have a potential Lionel Messi or a Sebastian Giovinco playing in the US youth ranks today, but because he's on the small side, coaches may well be overlooking him in favor of the big kid who is faster and stronger than everyone else. I suspect many of the players who could end up being excellent soccer players probably get overlooked, don't get the attention they need, are left to fend for themselves, have friends whose interests lie somewhere other than soccer, and they either drift away from the sport, or get just good enough to get to college and end up giving up the sport in favor of getting a degree in some non-sporting field, simply because they aren't physical specimens at a young age.


Growing up playing on many youth club teams, there is so much correct in this statement its ridiculous. My club teams weren't so bad, but looking back they were faulty. The focus was on winning tournaments and not on individual growth.

The high school level was a joke. Myself and 2 other guys played year round. Our offensive strategy was simply to pass the ball up top to myself and one of the other guys who played and hope for the best. Individual development was nonexistent and our "coach" was one of the history teachers who asked the top guys strategy questions. Mind you, I graduated from a 5A school in Georgia (2000+ students) in 2001. The difference in youth soccer from my experience and watching/helping my nephews is night and day. The US is moving in the right direction and the generational gap is closing rapidly. The future is bright for US soccer, but I wouldn't expect to field a starting 11 of world class players for another decade or more.

[paintmered]

The Gooch/Bocanegra pairing was a strength for early part of that 10 year period. There hasn't been as much consistency recently but guys look Brooks, Besler, Gonzalez and Cameron are all quality players. We've had a lot more trouble finding a LB than central defenders for sure.

Also, Matt Miazga went the full 90 in his Chelsea debut against Villa this morning.

[Yachtzee]

The issue isn't "our best athletes don't play soccer," it's that our best athletes don't play soccer early enough in their lives as a first-choice sport. If you look around the world, the greatest players grow up with a soccer ball on their feet and sign into professional academies before they're old enough to shave. For the US to close the gap with the rest of the world and/or start to produce generational type talents, we need parents to think "soccer" when they notice their kids starting to display athletic aptitude at any early age. Instead, they think "NBA" or "NFL" and a lot of kids get pushed to those sports. By the time they hit their growth spurts and top out short of what would be required to play in those sports and switch to soccer, it's already too late to go back and make up the training time that their international peers would have had.

It isn't about getting LeBron James to play soccer, it's about getting the kid like Tyler Ulis (5'9" slashing PG from Kentucky) to play soccer -- where he has absolutely no future as an NBA player, but has the feet, speed and vision to possibly have been a killer attacking mid if we had a country that considered soccer a top option for kids.

This article actually illustrates what I've been saying, but with actual research to back it up.
http://www.howlermagazine.com/dont-believe-the-hypothetical-spring-2016/

[BuckeyeRed27]

Also, Matt Miazga went the full 90 in his Chelsea debut against Villa this morning.

Nice! Although me and you could probably keep a clean sheet against Villa right now....yikes.

[Yachtzee]

Nice! Although me and you could probably keep a clean sheet against Villa right now....yikes.

Aston Villa, the Cleveland Browns of the EPL.

[RedTeamGo!]

Soon to be the Cleveland Gladiators of the NFL

[improbus]

This Liverpool-Spurs game is outrageously good.

- - - Updated - - -

And that was posted in the wrong thread.

[paintmered]

Nice! Although me and you could probably keep a clean sheet against Villa right now....yikes.

Sure, Villa are a wet noodle in a sword fight, but Miazga still played well.

[Caveat Emperor]

My other Chelsea fan friend and I both had agreements that we wouldn't buy Miazga kits until he actually saw first team minutes.

Well, order placed.

So cool to watch an American suit up for the team that's been my favorite all these years.

[Yachtzee]

My other Chelsea fan friend and I both had agreements that we wouldn't buy Miazga kits until he actually saw first team minutes.

Well, order placed.

So cool to watch an American suit up for the team that's been my favorite all these years.

Nice to see him get some first team minutes. When he transfered to Chelsea, I was skeptical that they would actually play him and felt his best bet would be if they would turn around and loan him out. However, if he can use the turmoil this season to establish himself as a first team option at Stamford Bridge, that would be tremendous.

[Big Red Smokey]

Whew...

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s526x395/14721662_725825744235056_5266536287690814996_n.jpg ?oh=53da38caccb2e6c8e669e707c3f944c3&oe=589C4C59

[Yachtzee]

Whew...

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s526x395/14721662_725825744235056_5266536287690814996_n.jpg ?oh=53da38caccb2e6c8e669e707c3f944c3&oe=589C4C59

Looks like I got selected too. Now I'm just waiting to see where.

[Big Red Smokey]

Looks like I got selected too. Now I'm just waiting to see where.

My CC got charged yesterday. So I know I'm in the $112.50 sideline seats. No idea where exactly though

[Yachtzee]

My CC got charged yesterday. So I know I'm in the $112.50 sideline seats. No idea where exactly though

Still waiting to get my charge. Also kind of dreading it because I've got it in my head that since they didn't give me the cheapest seats like I asked, I'm going to get stuck with seats that are way too expensive for my budget. I thought when I put for the cheap seats, they'd just pass me over if those were sold out.

[Big Red Smokey]

Still waiting to get my charge. Also kind of dreading it because I've got it in my head that since they didn't give me the cheapest seats like I asked, I'm going to get stuck with seats that are way too expensive for my budget. I thought when I put for the cheap seats, they'd just pass me over if those were sold out.

I ended up in Sec 125, Row 14.

11607

[Caveat Emperor]

I ended up in 140. Eh, I'll take it.

[Yachtzee]

I ended up in 140. Eh, I'll take it.

Nordecke. Nice.

[Big Red Smokey]

Nordecke. Nice.

If you log onto your US Soccer Account Manager you can see your tickets location

[Yachtzee]

If you log onto your US Soccer Account Manager you can see your tickets location

I got the notification, 4 tickets in section 209. I got invoiced, so I haven't had to pay yet, but I have until Wednesday night. Problem I have now is that I wanted to take my 10 year old and have one of my soccer dad friends and his kid join us. Unfortunately, my friends I spoke with beforehand have had to back out, so I'm trying to find someone else to join us. I wish they would just issue regular tickets so that I just sell the extras, but this whole mobile ticket plan has me concerned I might get stuck with 2 extra tickets if there's no way to resell them.

[Big Red Smokey]

I got the notification, 4 tickets in section 209. I got invoiced, so I haven't had to pay yet, but I have until Wednesday night. Problem I have now is that I wanted to take my 10 year old and have one of my soccer dad friends and his kid join us. Unfortunately, my friends I spoke with beforehand have had to back out, so I'm trying to find someone else to join us. I wish they would just issue regular tickets so that I just sell the extras, but this whole mobile ticket plan has me concerned I might get stuck with 2 extra tickets if there's no way to resell them.

You can transfer them via Ticketmaster Transfer. If you were to sell them on Craigslist or something. Just ask for Paypal/Venmo and then you can transfer them to someone's email address

[Yachtzee]

Shambolic.

[RedTeamGo!]

SHEEEEEEESH.

Time for Klinsman to go .

[dougdirt]

So, that went well.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Embarrassing.

[Caveat Emperor]

Time for a housecleaning at US Soccer.

[membengal]

He needs to go as much as Marvin Lewis does. Which is to say, immediately.

[TheBigLebowski]

That was the worst I have ever seen a US side look. Ever. This is not hyperbole.

Chandler has no business being on a pitch. John Brooks played some of the worst soccer I have ever seen.

Bradley and Jones are DONE.

There was no heart. No skill. No strategy. Just a bunch of lazy jackasses kicking a ball around and loafing as if it was an intramural game.

If Klinsmann isn't relieved of duty after this, US Soccer has no hope.

[Caveat Emperor]

The main problem is that US Soccer is still run (and expects to be treated like) an organization that is pulling the cart uphill when it comes to supporting the sport in this country.

We're not "there" yet as a soccer-playing nation, but we're way more "there" than we were even 10 years ago, and it's time for US Soccer to reflect that in how the national team program is run and what the expectations are.

[membengal]

Gonzalez jogging toward the end line as the Costa Rica player ran the ball down and got a free look to pick out a pass for the first goal is burned in my mind. I cannot imagine how Gonzalez wasn't immediately pulled at that point.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Gonzalez jogging toward the end line as the Costa Rica player ran the ball down and got a free look to pick out a pass for the first goal is burned in my mind. I cannot imagine how Gonzalez wasn't immediately pulled at that point.

Don't forget how Brooks wasn't running and ball watching while his man ran to the only spot where he could get a header. That play was symbolic of the whole game really.

Bradley was a disaster and wasn't much better in Mexico. I think he's trying to speed up tempo, but isn't on the same page with anyone and just boots the ball to no one and turns it over constantly. Jones is coming off an injury and hasn't played hardly at all in 3 months yet played 180 minutes in 4 days? You have to be kidding me.

Jurgen has to go. You can't be experimenting with formations and playing guys out of position in WC qualifying. You have to win the games. If you want to experiment schedule a friendly against Canada or something and play the 3-5-2 to your heart's desire. Don't do it against our biggest rival and a place where we haven't won in 8 tries. What do you think is going to happen?

I think the band aid answer is to call up Bruce Arena and see if he can right the ship and get us to the WC.

[M2]

He needs to go as much as Marvin Lewis does. Which is to say, immediately.

They've got a little time to make the decision. Their next qualifier isn't until March. The no-show in Costa Rica was embarrassing, but getting the right person in there should be the priority.


That was the worst I have ever seen a US side look. Ever. This is not hyperbole.

Chandler has no business being on a pitch. John Brooks played some of the worst soccer I have ever seen.

Bradley and Jones are DONE.

There was no heart. No skill. No strategy. Just a bunch of lazy jackasses kicking a ball around and loafing as if it was an intramural game.

If Klinsmann isn't relieved of duty after this, US Soccer has no hope.

A few thoughts:

- Costa Rica is a a really good team. They went to the final 8 at the World Cup. The U.S. hasn't won there in a long time. At least Team USA got smoked by a quality side.

- Brooks had a bad couple of games, but he played spectacularly in the Copa America. I'd give him a pass on this. Who plays next to him is the bigger question. Also, the team is suffering from a lack of wing backs. Time to plant Yedlin back there and let him take ownership or the right wing.

- Bradley and Jones may not be done, but they are at the tail end of the MLS season (both are still in the playoffs) and their legs are probably shot. Yet the U.S. should be looking for guys that can hang with the likes of Celso Borges (criminally underrated) and Hector Herrera.

[Hoosier Red]

They've got a little time to make the decision. Their next qualifier isn't until March. The no-show in Costa Rica was embarrassing, but getting the right person in there should be the priority.

A few thoughts:

- Costa Rica is a a really good team. They went to the final 8 at the World Cup. The U.S. hasn't won there in a long time. At least Team USA got smoked by a quality side.

- Brooks had a bad couple of games, but he played spectacularly in the Copa America. I'd give him a pass on this. Who plays next to him is the bigger question. Also, the team is suffering from a lack of wing backs. Time to plant Yedlin back there and let him take ownership or the right wing.

- Bradley and Jones may not be done, but they are at the tail end of the MLS season (both are still in the playoffs) and their legs are probably shot. Yet the U.S. should be looking for guys that can hang with the likes of Celso Borges (criminally underrated) and Hector Herrera.

All reasonable points. I'm about halfway with you there. I think Bradley's probably still got a few years, but I think he's pretty clearly a defensive mid as opposed to center attacking mid now. I think Jones is probably done by now. Whether you call the formation 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 basically having Bradley and Pulisic in the middle makes sense to me.

The 3-5-2/3-4-3 formation they played against Mexico made very little sense to me. In my mind, for that formation to work, the central defender and Central attacking midfielder/Central Forward have to be to two of the best players on the field.

IMO, this just showed Klinsmann over his head and it seems like the players have lost the belief in him once and for all.
Now is the time to make a coaching change, I'd go back to Arena simply for the fact that it's the easiest short time fix.

[Stray]

Klinsmann fired according to ESPN

[paintmered]

Twitter sources are saying Arena is the replacement.

[Hoosier Red]

Twitter sources are saying Arena is the replacement.

Makes sense. Arena seems like the perfect guy so long as they ONLY keep him through 2018. As I said on a FB thread discussing possibilities, he seems like the younger Jack McKeon. He can come in, improve performance with current team and be gone before everyone realizes the players and everyone in the organization hates him.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Makes sense. Arena seems like the perfect guy so long as they ONLY keep him through 2018. As I said on a FB thread discussing possibilities, he seems like the younger Jack McKeon. He can come in, improve performance with current team and be gone before everyone realizes the players and everyone in the organization hates him.

Exactly and he can also bring back in a few players like Feilhaber and Rodgers who should have been involved all along.

I wonder what Chris Wondolowski is going to do with those naked pictures of Jurgen now.

[Hoosier Red]

Exactly and he can also bring back in a few players like Feilhaber and Rodgers who should have been involved all along.

I wonder what Chris Wondolowski is going to do with those naked pictures of Jurgen now.

I've always found it best to not ask questions that I didn't want to know the answers to.

[RedTeamGo!]

Good riddance

[Caveat Emperor]

Makes sense. Arena seems like the perfect guy so long as they ONLY keep him through 2018. As I said on a FB thread discussing possibilities, he seems like the younger Jack McKeon. He can come in, improve performance with current team and be gone before everyone realizes the players and everyone in the organization hates him.

Trouble is, if he qualifies it'll be tough to launch him.

[M2]

I keep seeing (elsewhere) references to the 2002 WC quarterfinal, but what I keep remembering is the giant egg the team laid in the 2006 WC when Arena utterly abandoned anything like an attempt to move the ball or play attacking football. His MLS teams play with a lot more swagger, but that's because he's been given outstanding (for the league) talent. He already wasn't the guy who could elevate the USMNT's level of play the first time, so I'm not seeing why he would be now.

[paintmered]

In fairness to Arena's "legacy" views on the game... On the heels of Greece winning the 2004 Euros, I remember bunker ball and 5-4-1 formations were en vogue during the 2006 World Cup (Italy won, go figure!), only for Spain's tiki-taka to run roughshod over all of the cynicism two years later.

[Chip R]

The Guardian says, "Be careful what you wish for, you may get it."

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2016/nov/21/jurgen-klinsmann-fired-us-soccer-team?CMP=share_btn_tw

[SunDeck]

The Guardian says, "Be careful what you wish for, you may get it."

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2016/nov/21/jurgen-klinsmann-fired-us-soccer-team?CMP=share_btn_tw

There is a scathing article in the Guardian from 11/17 which basically says Klinsmann is right about the state of American soccer. On thing they pointed out was that there are no consequences for failure in the leagues here. I don't follow MLS or the European leagues much, but I'll watch a game if I can and from my perspective they are at least correct about the quality of play. MLS clearly doesn't have the talent and so it does leave guys in a quandary; if the best players stay here and raise the quality of the league, they risk their own development by not being pushed by a higher level of talent. I don't know if Klinsmann was the right guy, but I really doubt that going back to Arena is going to be a successful solution, either. I hope he's just there to get them to 2018.

What strikes me about the national team and the organization of youth soccer is that it pales in comparison to the other national development programs. My daughter, for instance, understands that as a US Swimming member, she is part of the larger effort to put the best swimmers in international pools. She gets a monthly magazine that puts kids like her on the same page (literally) with Lilly King. It doesn't seem to me that US Soccer has the same reach or impact. Our local club team, which fields very good traveling teams, seems also to be part daycare.

[Chip R]

There is a scathing article in the Guardian from 11/17 which basically says Klinsmann is right about the state of American soccer. On thing they pointed out was that there are no consequences for failure in the leagues here. I don't follow MLS or the European leagues much, but I'll watch a game if I can and from my perspective they are at least correct about the quality of play. MLS clearly doesn't have the talent and so it does leave guys in a quandary; if the best players stay here and raise the quality of the league, they risk their own development by not being pushed by a higher level of talent. I don't know if Klinsmann was the right guy, but I really doubt that going back to Arena is going to be a successful solution, either. I hope he's just there to get them to 2018.

I'm certainly not the right person to pass judgement on the USMNT program. My interest is very casual. I hope they do well but it's not something I obsess about. However, from what I understand, the interest in soccer here is dwarfed by the interest in soccer in other countries. It makes sense since for those countries it's basically soccer and that's it. Basketball is popular but somehow I don't think it has the hearts and minds of people like soccer does. It's just the opposite here. There are so many options for young people here including soccer. They know where the money is at. That's a great point about guys who play here as opposed to overseas. I am not sure how you can change that. To use a baseball comparison, could Japanese baseball ever get to be on a par with MLB? As for the coaches of the USMNT, it doesn't seem like Klinsman was the answer. It seemed like a good idea at the time but it just didn't work. Where do they go from here? Do they stick with Arenas or go out and hire some big shot from the Premier League and give him carte blanche over the program? As I understand it, Klinsman wasn't just the coach of the USMNT, he was also the overall director of the soccer program in the US. That seems like a lot of responsibility to put on one person.


What strikes me about the national team and the organization of youth soccer is that it pales in comparison to the other national development programs. My daughter, for instance, understands that as a US Swimming member, she is part of the larger effort to put the best swimmers in international pools. She gets a monthly magazine that puts kids like her on the same page (literally) with Lilly King. It doesn't seem to me that US Soccer has the same reach or impact. Our local club team, which fields very good traveling teams, seems also to be part daycare.

That may be due to the fact that there has only been an effort to emphasize soccer here only over the past 40 years. From what I understand, it basically started from nothing. It seems to me every little kid plays soccer at one point or another while they are a kid. It's what like Little League used to be for boys. The thing about soccer is that you can hide a kid with no skills more than you can with other sports. In baseball/softball you can stick a kid in RF but he/she is eventually going to come up to bat and all the attention will be on them. In basketball, you only have 5 guys playing so the odds are they will be involved sooner rather than later and when you get the ball, the lack of skills will show. In football you aren't going to put a kid with no skills at a skill position and even if you put them on the line, they are going to be exposed. I don't know how it's like in other countries but I'm guessing the kids with no skills get weeded out more quickly there than they do here. They don't have football or baseball or basketball - to a lesser extent - to fall back on. Are youth soccer coaches in other countries more intense - for lack of a better word - than youth soccer coaches are here? Are youth soccer coaches in other countries retired pros? Maybe it doesn't even have anything to do with the coaches. You see countries like Brazil where kids play soccer on the streets with nothing more than a pile of rags taped together. It's kind of like how baseball used to be here. There was Little League but kids also would cobble together enough for a crude ball and/or bat and play for hours on end. I have no idea what kind of effort is being made to get American kids on a par with their foreign counterparts in soccer. I don't know if one man can change it. But it will take time.

[SunDeck]

Maybe the modern US equivalent of kids playing soccer in the streets of Brazil or the bygone days of sandlot baseball is really pickup basketball. Chip makes a good point about the cultural differences; it's hard to say whether soccer will ever break through to become one of the real major sports. It seems the likelihood is there, but the fanaticism will be imported to a certain extent.

While I'm on the subject of home grown soccer, I'd like to point out that in forty plus years of playing and watching I may have become more knowledgeable about that game than baseball. I often find myself watching it on a different level than those around me. I'm seeing guys running to space, moving strategically on the field while those around me focus on the ball, which I mention just to point out (perhaps in a self serving way) that although I don't really follow the game that much, my soccer IQ for what is occurring on field, for the flow of a game, etc. is very high. I really LOVE to watch soccer. However, and I hope I don't offend anyone, I almost can't stand watching the game with American fans. There is this vocabulary and manner of speaking or cheering that has driven me nuts forever. It's as if people have a need to prove they are real fans, who have played the game. Here are a few phrases I heard Sunday at the IU NCAA tournament game that made me want to yell, "Can't you just speak like you're not trying to prove you're a soccer professor?!"

"Pretty ball, Patrick!": A response to a nice heal ball that created an overlap. Since the 70s, the word "pretty" (or the far worse "lovely") has been a favorite of the "educated" American soccer fan. Also, note the use of the player's given name, whether he goes by it or not; Will is William, Alex is Alexander. Inexplicably, this is mandatory.
"Oh, nice idea, Louis!": A response to what was actually miscommunication between a midfielder and a forward, resulting in a ball to space that didn't end up being occupied by a team mate. This shows that the true fan appreciates the creativity, despite the fact that two players who practice together daily can't get on the same page when it counts.
"Sir!" or "Referee!": The constant refrain of everyone along the sideline whenever the opposing team touches one of their players. Contact does not equal a foul. Never has, never will.
"Off side!": This is my equivalent of the balk call in baseball. Folks, if a guy runs to the end line and passes the ball backward to the center, he doesn't automatically become off side unless the ball comes back his way. He is not in play, he is not offside. But even England got offside wrong on their 2012 Olympic coin, so maybe people can have a pass.
"Push Out!": Evidently, only smart fans know that it's best to force the other team out of the box on a clear. By yelling this, one only proves their grasp of fundamentals, not nuance. The act of pushing out for a Division I soccer player on one of the country's best teams is a reflex, not the product of thought.
"Square, Peter!": Just. Shut. Up.

[Hoosier Red]

There is a scathing article in the Guardian from 11/17 which basically says Klinsmann is right about the state of American soccer. On thing they pointed out was that there are no consequences for failure in the leagues here. I don't follow MLS or the European leagues much, but I'll watch a game if I can and from my perspective they are at least correct about the quality of play. MLS clearly doesn't have the talent and so it does leave guys in a quandary; if the best players stay here and raise the quality of the league, they risk their own development by not being pushed by a higher level of talent. I don't know if Klinsmann was the right guy, but I really doubt that going back to Arena is going to be a successful solution, either. I hope he's just there to get them to 2018.


One thing that was strange was Klinsmann really seemed to punish guys who went to the English Championship(league below Premier League) which to me seemed odd because he'd also gripe about guys coming back to play in MLS and not get quality competition.



What strikes me about the national team and the organization of youth soccer is that it pales in comparison to the other national development programs. My daughter, for instance, understands that as a US Swimming member, she is part of the larger effort to put the best swimmers in international pools. She gets a monthly magazine that puts kids like her on the same page (literally) with Lilly King. It doesn't seem to me that US Soccer has the same reach or impact. Our local club team, which fields very good traveling teams, seems also to be part daycare.

This is the biggest problem imo. Just like I've always thought major league teams would be smart to pay their best coaches at Rookie League and Single A to set a standard going into the majors, I'd think it would be best for the USMNT to put the most qualified youth coaches at the youngest levels. Instead, it's generally guys who may or may not have played soccer and are volunteering to coach their kid's club team.

I think part of the problem is with as big of a player pool as we see in the US, it would be impossible to winnow it down to truly identify the best players when they're younger than 10, and more importantly, to put them together and have them practicing against each other.

[SunDeck]

One thing that was strange was Klinsmann really seemed to punish guys who went to the English Championship(league below Premier League) which to me seemed odd because he'd also gripe about guys coming back to play in MLS and not get quality competition.



This is the biggest problem imo. Just like I've always thought major league teams would be smart to pay their best coaches at Rookie League and Single A to set a standard going into the majors, I'd think it would be best for the USMNT to put the most qualified youth coaches at the youngest levels. Instead, it's generally guys who may or may not have played soccer and are volunteering to coach their kid's club team.



Wow, this is a great point. I was very lucky; at age seven my coach was from Italy and he'd played semi professionally. We learned to juggle and did it nearly half of every practice. And from what I remember, he lived across the street from the school where we practiced and just stopped by one day to ask if he could help out. Ranio Spatola, I'll never forget him.

[M2]

There is a scathing article in the Guardian from 11/17 which basically says Klinsmann is right about the state of American soccer. On thing they pointed out was that there are no consequences for failure in the leagues here. I don't follow MLS or the European leagues much, but I'll watch a game if I can and from my perspective they are at least correct about the quality of play. MLS clearly doesn't have the talent and so it does leave guys in a quandary; if the best players stay here and raise the quality of the league, they risk their own development by not being pushed by a higher level of talent. I don't know if Klinsmann was the right guy, but I really doubt that going back to Arena is going to be a successful solution, either. I hope he's just there to get them to 2018.

What strikes me about the national team and the organization of youth soccer is that it pales in comparison to the other national development programs. My daughter, for instance, understands that as a US Swimming member, she is part of the larger effort to put the best swimmers in international pools. She gets a monthly magazine that puts kids like her on the same page (literally) with Lilly King. It doesn't seem to me that US Soccer has the same reach or impact. Our local club team, which fields very good traveling teams, seems also to be part daycare.

A few things:

- As much as I'd like to see relegation in MLS, it would be to eliminate the complacency in many of the league's lesser teams and to create urgency for each club, not to improve the national team. There's just not much of a connection between the two concepts.

- MLS is pretty good league. It's a better league than the Championship. And it keeps improving. It's not on par with elite leagues, but it's moving in the right direction.

- Soccer's too distributed for a national program to be in control of development. There's been efforts to improve entry-level coaching. I can say from experience that the youth ranks are emphasizing skills and a passing-oriented game far more than they were a decade ago, though your mileage will vary. MLS teams now have their own development academies, which is where a lot of the elite players are going to come through in the future. Yet a lot of elite kids will head over to Europe in their teens, like Christian Pulisic. IMO, what the national team and national programs need to do is set a high bar in terms of expectations, allowing development programs to chase that standard.

- The USMNT has come a long way in the past 25 years. It has improved to the point where not making the knockout rounds of the World Cup would be considered a disappointment. That's the minimum we should expect. Advancing deeper in the World Cup is the next target.

- Seems to me the biggest current on-field challenge for the USMNT is playing dangerous football when Clint Dempsey isn't there. He's been the team's genie in the final third for a very long time.

[M2]

One thing that was strange was Klinsmann really seemed to punish guys who went to the English Championship(league below Premier League) which to me seemed odd because he'd also gripe about guys coming back to play in MLS and not get quality competition.

To be fair, the Championship is not that good a league. The two reasons to go there are money and the opportunity to graduate up to the Premier League. Yet if we're talking level of competition, the plodding, direct style of the Championship is not churning out quality players.

[IslandRed]

By hiring a former national team coach and current MLS coach who is 65 years old, it seems clear to me they are focused only on the immediate emergency at hand, qualifying for the World Cup, and a coach from MLS would be the most familiar with the talent pool. Having said that, I was never much of a fan.

The stuff that fell under Klinsmann's technical-director hat will probably become someone else's job, if I had to guess.

[M2]

"Oh, nice idea, Louis!": A response to what was actually miscommunication between a midfielder and a forward, resulting in a ball to space that didn't end up being occupied by a team mate. This shows that the true fan appreciates the creativity, despite the fact that two players who practice together daily can't get on the same page when it counts.

I'm going to take issue with this one because it reflects a particularly English view of the game. The elite teams in the game make that pass with regularity even though it doesn't always connect. You can't know if your teammate is going break into that open space every time you make what could be an unlocking pass, but you have to make it. Cruyff was big on this, and he was generally right about everything in terms of how to play the game. The more you make that pass, the more it sets up the expectation that other players will spot the space and make the run. Good football plays into space. Bad football plays into feet.

English/Scottish players, coaches and announcers kind of scoff at that pass, but that's why they've been surpassed. Spanish players make that pass all the time.

[Chip R]

By hiring a former national team coach and current MLS coach who is 65 years old, it seems clear to me they are focused only on the immediate emergency at hand, qualifying for the World Cup, and a coach from MLS would be the most familiar with the talent pool. Having said that, I was never much of a fan.

The stuff that fell under Klinsmann's technical-director hat will probably become someone else's job, if I had to guess.

Assuming Arena is an interim manager, who should they hire as the next manager? Should it be an American who is familiar with the players or maybe someone from an overseas league who is underappreciated by the fans and media? Should they get someone who would adapt to the players or someone who would implement his own system?

[Caveat Emperor]

There is a scathing article in the Guardian from 11/17 which basically says Klinsmann is right about the state of American soccer. On thing they pointed out was that there are no consequences for failure in the leagues here. I don't follow MLS or the European leagues much, but I'll watch a game if I can and from my perspective they are at least correct about the quality of play. MLS clearly doesn't have the talent and so it does leave guys in a quandary; if the best players stay here and raise the quality of the league, they risk their own development by not being pushed by a higher level of talent. I don't know if Klinsmann was the right guy, but I really doubt that going back to Arena is going to be a successful solution, either. I hope he's just there to get them to 2018.

I'd argue that the larger issue with MLS isn't the lack of "penalty" for failure -- it's the lack of reward for success. On the field, winning MLS doesn't grant you access to any higher degree of prestige and notoriety that the UEFA Champions League provides in Europe (the CONCACAF Champions League is a total joke, by comparison). Off the field, MLS ensures that only a very select handful of players will ever make major money in the league thanks to the almost comically low (by international standards) salary cap of ~$3.5 million and restrictions on the number of high-value players that can be signed under the "Designated Player" rule. I completely get that low salaries are probably necessary as the league grows the necessary revenue streams to compete at a higher level, but it also has the effect of choking off incentive for success at the important "middle tier" of guys (who will form the backbone of a National Team roster), and also eliminates the threat of stars coming in on transfer to take the job of under performing players (especially when the under-performing player is already utilizing a DP slot).

The other thing to remember, though, is that this idea of "Domestic League holding National Team back" isn't unique to MLS -- the PL has been criticized for years at hampering the development of English players because teams are so fearful of relegation (and, at the top of the table, so eager to maintain their UCL paydays / avoid the FFP sanctions that would come from this loss of European football revenues) that they would rather bring in talent from overseas than give spots to younger, homegrown players to develop. My club, Chelsea (for example) is notorious for having tons of young English talent out on loan to lower leagues around the world because they don't want to commit to unproven players at the first team level.

[SunDeck]

I'm going to take issue with this one because it reflects a particularly English view of the game. The elite teams in the game make that pass with regularity even though it doesn't always connect. You can't know if your teammate is going break into that open space every time you make what could be an unlocking pass, but you have to make it. Cruyff was big on this, and he was generally right about everything in terms of how to play the game. The more you make that pass, the more it sets up the expectation that other players will spot the space and make the run. Good football plays into space. Bad football plays into feet.

English/Scottish players, coaches and announcers kind of scoff at that pass, but that's why they've been surpassed. Spanish players make that pass all the time.

Sorry, I may have not been clear- I agree with that pass. A lot! And having made it and made the run to space for that pass many times, I say it relies on a sound understanding of your team mate. A subtle turn or a weight shift is all that's necessary to indicate what's coming next, but it requires a strong relationship. My point is that it's the smugness of the fan that bothers me. It's a nice play, smart, and it is a more creative form of soccer, but not wizardry. I learned how to play that way in the 80s.

[M2]

the CONCACAF Champions League is a total joke, by comparison

Everything is a joke compared to the UCL. It's the competition that pits the best club teams in the world against each other. Even the Copa Liberatadores can't compete. Yet the two times MLS teams have managed to get into the CCL final (RSL and Montreal), it's been pretty intense. What makes it a "joke" is MLS rosters can't build the kind of depth necessary to make a run at the CCL in the middle of the MLS season, as you touched on. So Mexico dominates the competition. The league roster rules weren't designed with the pursuit of international competition in mind. MLS really should allow teams that qualify for the CCL an extra DP (or two) and a a higher salary cap.

Though I completely agree the league roster structure doesn't foster the development of good players into guys who can compete internationally. American players almost have to go overseas to make money and then maybe they can come back to a DP arrangement if they're really good.

[M2]

Sorry, I may have not been clear- I agree with that pass. A lot! And having made it and made the run to space for that pass many times, I say it relies on a sound understanding of your team mate. A subtle turn or a weight shift is all that's necessary to indicate what's coming next, but it requires a strong relationship. My point is that it's the smugness of the fan that bothers me. It's a nice play, smart, and it is a more creative form of soccer, but not wizardry. I learned how to play that way in the 80s.

See where you're coming from, though I'd say that's usually no better than a 50-50 pass. The subtle turn can be missed when everyone's running at full speed. I get applauding the pass from the sidelines (heck, I do it). IMO, the best way to connect that pass is for the player off the ball to motion for it, literally point to the space as he/she makes the break.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Maybe the modern US equivalent of kids playing soccer in the streets of Brazil or the bygone days of sandlot baseball is really pickup basketball. Chip makes a good point about the cultural differences; it's hard to say whether soccer will ever break through to become one of the real major sports. It seems the likelihood is there, but the fanaticism will be imported to a certain extent.

While I'm on the subject of home grown soccer, I'd like to point out that in forty plus years of playing and watching I may have become more knowledgeable about that game than baseball. I often find myself watching it on a different level than those around me. I'm seeing guys running to space, moving strategically on the field while those around me focus on the ball, which I mention just to point out (perhaps in a self serving way) that although I don't really follow the game that much, my soccer IQ for what is occurring on field, for the flow of a game, etc. is very high. I really LOVE to watch soccer. However, and I hope I don't offend anyone, I almost can't stand watching the game with American fans. There is this vocabulary and manner of speaking or cheering that has driven me nuts forever. It's as if people have a need to prove they are real fans, who have played the game. Here are a few phrases I heard Sunday at the IU NCAA tournament game that made me want to yell, "Can't you just speak like you're not trying to prove you're a soccer professor?!"

"Pretty ball, Patrick!": A response to a nice heal ball that created an overlap. Since the 70s, the word "pretty" (or the far worse "lovely") has been a favorite of the "educated" American soccer fan. Also, note the use of the player's given name, whether he goes by it or not; Will is William, Alex is Alexander. Inexplicably, this is mandatory.
"Oh, nice idea, Louis!": A response to what was actually miscommunication between a midfielder and a forward, resulting in a ball to space that didn't end up being occupied by a team mate. This shows that the true fan appreciates the creativity, despite the fact that two players who practice together daily can't get on the same page when it counts.
"Sir!" or "Referee!": The constant refrain of everyone along the sideline whenever the opposing team touches one of their players. Contact does not equal a foul. Never has, never will.
"Off side!": This is my equivalent of the balk call in baseball. Folks, if a guy runs to the end line and passes the ball backward to the center, he doesn't automatically become off side unless the ball comes back his way. He is not in play, he is not offside. But even England got offside wrong on their 2012 Olympic coin, so maybe people can have a pass.
"Push Out!": Evidently, only smart fans know that it's best to force the other team out of the box on a clear. By yelling this, one only proves their grasp of fundamentals, not nuance. The act of pushing out for a Division I soccer player on one of the country's best teams is a reflex, not the product of thought.
"Square, Peter!": Just. Shut. Up.

From now on I'll limit my in game involvement to drinking beer and yelling at the ref.

[IslandRed]

Assuming Arena is an interim manager, who should they hire as the next manager? Should it be an American who is familiar with the players or maybe someone from an overseas league who is underappreciated by the fans and media? Should they get someone who would adapt to the players or someone who would implement his own system?

Given the realities of coaching a national team -- limited time with players, and if you don't have the key talents a certain system requires, you can't go out and get them -- I tend to lean toward the pragmatic. Figure out what works best with the talent on hand and make sure it's not too complicated to master in short bursts of training. Beyond that, I'm a fan of tailoring the system to the best players. In a situation where team play is usually a little rough by the usual standard, it helps to let your bell cows have the opportunity to do what they do.

Do I have a name for this person? No.

[M2]

Oscar Pareja, who's done wonders at FC Dallas, might be an ideal pick for the USMNT job.

[Caveat Emperor]

My pick was/is Caleb Porter.

[Yachtzee]

Maybe the modern US equivalent of kids playing soccer in the streets of Brazil or the bygone days of sandlot baseball is really pickup basketball. Chip makes a good point about the cultural differences; it's hard to say whether soccer will ever break through to become one of the real major sports. It seems the likelihood is there, but the fanaticism will be imported to a certain extent.

While I'm on the subject of home grown soccer, I'd like to point out that in forty plus years of playing and watching I may have become more knowledgeable about that game than baseball. I often find myself watching it on a different level than those around me. I'm seeing guys running to space, moving strategically on the field while those around me focus on the ball, which I mention just to point out (perhaps in a self serving way) that although I don't really follow the game that much, my soccer IQ for what is occurring on field, for the flow of a game, etc. is very high. I really LOVE to watch soccer. However, and I hope I don't offend anyone, I almost can't stand watching the game with American fans. There is this vocabulary and manner of speaking or cheering that has driven me nuts forever. It's as if people have a need to prove they are real fans, who have played the game. Here are a few phrases I heard Sunday at the IU NCAA tournament game that made me want to yell, "Can't you just speak like you're not trying to prove you're a soccer professor?!"

"Pretty ball, Patrick!": A response to a nice heal ball that created an overlap. Since the 70s, the word "pretty" (or the far worse "lovely") has been a favorite of the "educated" American soccer fan. Also, note the use of the player's given name, whether he goes by it or not; Will is William, Alex is Alexander. Inexplicably, this is mandatory.
"Oh, nice idea, Louis!": A response to what was actually miscommunication between a midfielder and a forward, resulting in a ball to space that didn't end up being occupied by a team mate. This shows that the true fan appreciates the creativity, despite the fact that two players who practice together daily can't get on the same page when it counts.
"Sir!" or "Referee!": The constant refrain of everyone along the sideline whenever the opposing team touches one of their players. Contact does not equal a foul. Never has, never will.
"Off side!": This is my equivalent of the balk call in baseball. Folks, if a guy runs to the end line and passes the ball backward to the center, he doesn't automatically become off side unless the ball comes back his way. He is not in play, he is not offside. But even England got offside wrong on their 2012 Olympic coin, so maybe people can have a pass.
"Push Out!": Evidently, only smart fans know that it's best to force the other team out of the box on a clear. By yelling this, one only proves their grasp of fundamentals, not nuance. The act of pushing out for a Division I soccer player on one of the country's best teams is a reflex, not the product of thought.
"Square, Peter!": Just. Shut. Up.

Sounds like you're sitting around some of soccer nerd dads and moms who probably have kids on a team and like to pretend like they know what they're talking about. As my son gets older and has moved from rec league to travel, I've noticed a lot of parents have tried to become more knowledgeable about the game. Ironically, a lot of what they say contradicts what the coaches are asking the kids to do. When I go to college games at Akron, I usually camp out near the student section in the general admission area, because I'd rather hear the students singing and chanting rather than listen to two dudes in front of me trying to play surrogate coach. However, I won't criticize those guys because I appreciate that they're coming out to games and supporting the sport. I just move a little further away if they get annoying. If they get really annoying, I just point out that, unless you're on the touchline, the players can't hear you.

[Yachtzee]

Just to add something to the list of annoying things people say at soccer games: "Mark Up!" or "Match Up!": Said on every free kick or corner. Like players haven't been told this since they first strapped on the cleats. Plus it's completely unhelpful. I play on an Over-40 team and our keeper always yells "Match Up!" Once one of our guys turned to him and said, "Hey, if you see someone who's unmarked, point him out and we'll put someone on him. Otherwise just shut up because you sound like an idiot."

[SunDeck]

Sounds like you're sitting around some of soccer nerd dads and moms who probably have kids on a team and like to pretend like they know what they're talking about. As my son gets older and has moved from rec league to travel, I've noticed a lot of parents have tried to become more knowledgeable about the game. Ironically, a lot of what they say contradicts what the coaches are asking the kids to do. When I go to college games at Akron, I usually camp out near the student section in the general admission area, because I'd rather hear the students singing and chanting rather than listen to two dudes in front of me trying to play surrogate coach. However, I won't criticize those guys because I appreciate that they're coming out to games and supporting the sport. I just move a little further away if they get annoying. If they get really annoying, I just point out that, unless you're on the touchline, the players can't hear you.

That stuff was all taken from the IU/Akron game, BTW. Some while I was sitting in the sun of the visitors side, some from the home side.
And they are a good team, btw. They lost on a corner scrum. IU has a few rock solid defenders, but I thought the Zips could have won that game with a bounce here or there.

[bucksfan2]

I wonder if a decade in the future we will look back at the job Klinsman did and applaud.

I think Klinsman pushed hard to get as many good players into European leagues as possible. I also think the amount of money MLS teams began to throw at USMNT players really hurt the overall team prospects. I think guys like Bradley and Altidore peaked prior to joining the MLS. A guy like Mix Dikerud had high hopes but has pretty much disappeared in the MLS. I don't know as much about the actual technical details for Klinsmans coaching, but I do think he has done a lot to get the most talent a USMNT has seen in a long, long time.

[M2]

The US is whipping Honduras 6-0 at the moment. Hat trick for Dempsey, Pulisic running wild.

[Hoosier Red]

Sounds like you're sitting around some of soccer nerd dads and moms who probably have kids on a team and like to pretend like they know what they're talking about. As my son gets older and has moved from rec league to travel, I've noticed a lot of parents have tried to become more knowledgeable about the game. Ironically, a lot of what they say contradicts what the coaches are asking the kids to do. When I go to college games at Akron, I usually camp out near the student section in the general admission area, because I'd rather hear the students singing and chanting rather than listen to two dudes in front of me trying to play surrogate coach. However, I won't criticize those guys because I appreciate that they're coming out to games and supporting the sport. I just move a little further away if they get annoying. If they get really annoying, I just point out that, unless you're on the touchline, the players can't hear you.

I have a friend who's sons all played higher level soccer and has one son playing at D1 soccer program right now. This guy was VERY involved in his son's team play, he coached when they were younger and was a pretty astute observer in most things.
After watching one of the world cup games with him, I remember thinking, "Man this guy has no idea what he's talking about. No wonder we're screwed."

[Yachtzee]

The US is whipping Honduras 6-0 at the moment. Hat trick for Dempsey, Pulisic running wild.

Watching Pulisic is something special, and it's great that we can watch him with the USMNT, in the Champions League, and in the Bundesliga. I actually hope he stays with Dortmund for a while, as my biggest fear for him is that he gets bought by a Premier League team and has to sit behind other big money acquisitions and either rides the bench or gets loaned to a Football Championship squad. Better to stay where he is where he gets quality minutes in both his club's domestic league and the Champions League.

[bucksfan2]

Watching Pulisic is something special, and it's great that we can watch him with the USMNT, in the Champions League, and in the Bundesliga. I actually hope he stays with Dortmund for a while, as my biggest fear for him is that he gets bought by a Premier League team and has to sit behind other big money acquisitions and either rides the bench or gets loaned to a Football Championship squad. Better to stay where he is where he gets quality minutes in both his club's domestic league and the Champions League.

That kid is an absolute joy to watch. Really the most impactful American player since Bradley in his prime.

I think Dortmond is a perfect place for him to grow, but I wouldn't be all that worried if he took a jump to a bigger team in the future. Dortmod is what, a top 20 club in the world? It isn't like he would be moving from the Dutch league to the EPL.

[RedTeamGo!]

That kid is an absolute joy to watch. Really the most impactful American player since Bradley in his prime.

I think Dortmond is a perfect place for him to grow, but I wouldn't be all that worried if he took a jump to a bigger team in the future. Dortmod is what, a top 20 club in the world? It isn't like he would be moving from the Dutch league to the EPL.

If Pulisic ends up being Michael Bradley it will be extremely disappointing.

[BuckeyeRed27]

If Pulisic ends up being Michael Bradley it will be extremely disappointing.

Agreed. He is still so young, but he really looks like the most legit soccer player the US has ever had. Dempsey's finish was fantastic, but I'm not sure there is another player on the team right now that could have made that little chip pass to set it up.

Hadn't seen it mentioned yet, I thought Jozy was really fantastic in this game. He didn't score, but he did everything you want a hold up striker to do and made a lot of really nice reads. The only player in this game I was semi disappointed in was Nagbe, since I don't remember him really doing anything of note.

Lets hope we didn't use up all the goals and can get 3 more points tomorrow night.

[bucksfan2]

If Pulisic ends up being Michael Bradley it will be extremely disappointing.

Absolutely. But I do think people forget that Bradley had a period of time where he was a very, very good midfielder. Sure his play has fallen off recently, right around the time he went to Roma he was playing at a very high level.

[M2]

Hadn't seen it mentioned yet, I thought Jozy was really fantastic in this game. He didn't score, but he did everything you want a hold up striker to do and made a lot of really nice reads.

I like the variety of having Jozy, Pulisic and Clint up top. You get Jozy to push around the defenders and take care of the hold up duties. He physically wears down defenders. That creates space for Pulisic (who's can create panic every time he touches the ball) and Dempsey (who expertly reads the game). That group has to be a nightmare to defend.

[BuckeyeRed27]

I like the variety of having Jozy, Pulisic and Clint up top. You get Jozy to push around the defenders and take care of the hold up duties. He physically wears down defenders. That creates space for Pulisic (who's can create panic every time he touches the ball) and Dempsey (who expertly reads the game). That group has to be a nightmare to defend.

Have to imagine that Wood is going to be spending more and more time up there. I'm sure he would have started in place of Dempsey had he been healthy.

[M2]

Have to imagine that Wood is going to be spending more and more time up there. I'm sure he would have started in place of Dempsey had he been healthy.

I'd rather alternate Wood and Jozy. Dempsey's a unicorn. Play him as much as you can while he's still magic.

[M2]

Cannot stress enough that with Lletget out, Acosta really ought to be the CM.

[RedTeamGo!]

I'd rather alternate Wood and Jozy. Dempsey's a unicorn. Play him as much as you can while he's still magic.

Does "unicorn" in this sense mean all-timer with regard to USMNT or rare talent that is good while he is old?

[M2]

Does "unicorn" in this sense mean all-timer with regard to USMNT or rare talent that is good while he is old?

Both in Clint's case. He's got that uncanny ability to pop up out of nowhere and score goals. He sees chinks in the armor that others don't and he's a lethal finisher. You don't see a lot of guys like him - Raul and Pauleta, that's about it.

[Yachtzee]

Pulisic with some great work in the box to hold the ball and find Dempsey for the first goal. US up 1-0.

[M2]

All right, this latest goal is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. First, Pulisic is awesome. He skinned two separate defenders with his energy and skill. Yet Clint Dempsey was criminally wide open in the middle of the box. It's like he's got a cloaking device and defenders don't even see him. How is that man standing there? He should be wearing a defender like a second shirt.

[RedTeamGo!]

I feel like I have been waiting my whole life for a world class American soccer player. A true top talent on the global scale. I watch Pulisic and I think we may finally have one.

What do I do with my hands?

[Yachtzee]

Ugh, that Panama equalizer. It looked like something from my Over 40 team. We have a guy who can make throw-ins to the far post, and every time he launches one into the box, it creates chaos and gives us goal opportunities. Probably should have had someone step to screen the throw.

[Yachtzee]

Ref isn't carding anyone. Panama has been getting away with stuff that should have warranted yellow cards. My fear in circumstances like this is that someone on the US will get frustrated and lash out, earning a red. It will probably be Jones.

[Slyder]

Maybe the modern US equivalent of kids playing soccer in the streets of Brazil or the bygone days of sandlot baseball is really pickup basketball. Chip makes a good point about the cultural differences; it's hard to say whether soccer will ever break through to become one of the real major sports. It seems the likelihood is there, but the fanaticism will be imported to a certain extent.

While I'm on the subject of home grown soccer, I'd like to point out that in forty plus years of playing and watching I may have become more knowledgeable about that game than baseball. I often find myself watching it on a different level than those around me. I'm seeing guys running to space, moving strategically on the field while those around me focus on the ball, which I mention just to point out (perhaps in a self serving way) that although I don't really follow the game that much, my soccer IQ for what is occurring on field, for the flow of a game, etc. is very high. I really LOVE to watch soccer. However, and I hope I don't offend anyone, I almost can't stand watching the game with American fans. There is this vocabulary and manner of speaking or cheering that has driven me nuts forever. It's as if people have a need to prove they are real fans, who have played the game. Here are a few phrases I heard Sunday at the IU NCAA tournament game that made me want to yell, "Can't you just speak like you're not trying to prove you're a soccer professor?!"

"Pretty ball, Patrick!": A response to a nice heal ball that created an overlap. Since the 70s, the word "pretty" (or the far worse "lovely") has been a favorite of the "educated" American soccer fan. Also, note the use of the player's given name, whether he goes by it or not; Will is William, Alex is Alexander. Inexplicably, this is mandatory.
"Oh, nice idea, Louis!": A response to what was actually miscommunication between a midfielder and a forward, resulting in a ball to space that didn't end up being occupied by a team mate. This shows that the true fan appreciates the creativity, despite the fact that two players who practice together daily can't get on the same page when it counts.
"Sir!" or "Referee!": The constant refrain of everyone along the sideline whenever the opposing team touches one of their players. Contact does not equal a foul. Never has, never will.
"Off side!": This is my equivalent of the balk call in baseball. Folks, if a guy runs to the end line and passes the ball backward to the center, he doesn't automatically become off side unless the ball comes back his way. He is not in play, he is not offside. But even England got offside wrong on their 2012 Olympic coin, so maybe people can have a pass.
"Push Out!": Evidently, only smart fans know that it's best to force the other team out of the box on a clear. By yelling this, one only proves their grasp of fundamentals, not nuance. The act of pushing out for a Division I soccer player on one of the country's best teams is a reflex, not the product of thought.
"Square, Peter!": Just. Shut. Up.

Yep. Pretty much why I believe we're so far behind the rest of the world in development. Most of that should just be 2nd nature and trying to goad a call is why I just ignore 90% of the coaches I ref.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Game tonight in Denver against Trinidad. I assume it will be the same line up as the Venezuela friendly, which I liked. Shouldn't have a problem getting 3 points here, but they are obviously crucial with the @ Mexico game on Sunday.

Speaking of which, I'm going to Mexico City this weekend and going to the game. I hope I don't die, but I'm really looking forward to it. I've been to three USA/Mexico games here in the US (although 2 of them were at the Rose Bowl so it wasn't really a "home game"), but I've always wanted to see one of these at Azteca.

[RedTeamGo!]

What channel is the game on tonight?

[BuckeyeRed27]

What channel is the game on tonight?

FS1

[membengal]

Oh my , Pulisic.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bourgeois Zee]

Oh my , Pulisic.

Two goals so far.

Is Pulisic the best player for this team already?

[membengal]

Yes. For sure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hoosier Red]

Two goals so far.

Is Pulisic the best player for this team already?

Without a doubt.
Just a brilliant performance from him.

I really liked what I saw from Nagbe last night too.
He may have been beat a few times going back but a lot of the better opportunities seemed to start at his feet.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Without a doubt.
Just a brilliant performance from him.

I really liked what I saw from Nagbe last night too.
He may have been beat a few times going back but a lot of the better opportunities seemed to start at his feet.

That second finish was just nasty.

They looked a little sluggish at first which was a little disappointing, but overall can't be too mad about how many opportunities were created. Trinidad should have scored on that header that hit the bar, but overall it was a pretty good defensive performance.

Will be interesting to see what if any line up tweaks Arena makes for Mexico. I think he starts Omar in the back and made slides Cameron in as a defensive mid.

[M2]

Will be interesting to see what if any line up tweaks Arena makes for Mexico. I think he starts Omar in the back and made slides Cameron in as a defensive mid.

Man, I hope not. Mourinho used to do that sometimes at Real Madrid and it just kills the ball movement. Against a team like Mexico, you need to counter possession with possession.

[MWM]

Why is Demarcus Beasley in the game?

[M2]

Why is Demarcus Beasley in the game?

The U.S. doesn't make left backs. Beasley has the job for life. When he dies, they'll just play with 10 men.

[RedTeamGo!]

Fantastic result. I'll take a point at Azteca every single time.

[Slyder]

Why is Demarcus Beasley in the game?

He's dating Arena's Daughter? I don't know. US has struggled with defenders for years, Beasley is one of the old dogs that has become long in the tooth though.

[Hoosier Red]

Why is Demarcus Beasley in the game?

I'll say this, he really seemed to be struggling with containment in the first half. But from the moment he went down with injury and came back in, I'm not sure I heard his name. I don't know if that was due to other's helping him more than they had been previously, but Mexico really seemed to go after Yedlin more, which didn't really work either.

[bucksfan2]

Can someone explain this to me. Not only with Beasley, but Brooks and Johnson did not play, surprising because IMO they are in the top few USMNT players overall.

Ream played very well and Cameron played, well a Cameron game. He had a few close calls, a few almost misses, but dude is rock solid in the back line.

Pulisic's skill is off the chart, guy is just amazing at creating opportunities. I do they need to find a capable center back to help him out. He had to retreat way too much last night to really show his skill.

They were gassed late in the first and almost the entire 2nd, and Arena uses his last sub with a couple of minutes left in the game?

[membengal]

bucksfan - I believe this was Arena's stated plan to the team all along - with the altitude and short turn around between games, he was going to go with fresh legs. Also, he apparently had planned to play Mexico in that shell that the team came out in, and I think he selected players he believed would fit that approach as well. Several of the changes involved guys who play in the Mexican league too. The one that puzzled me and still does is Beasley - at some point, being 35 and simply not fast enough is an issue, and it was on the Mexican goal. Oh, and Guzan at goal seemed weird to me, but Guzan didn't cost them the game, so I guess it was fine.

Still, Arena found a point in the Azteca, so hard to get mad about it from my end...

[MWM]

Beasley was consistently beaten and looked to be in over his head in that game. He was a really good player for the USMNT for a lot of years, but there's no way he should have been in the game. The goal was no entirely on Beasley as he should have had help, but he didn't prove much of an obstacle to Vela in getting the shot off.

Guzan makes me nervous. He's not an especially good goalkeeper and seems way too passive. I'm not sure there was anything he could have done about that goal, but I'm not sure there wasn't either. He didn't seem ready for the shot, and was slightly out of position. He seems to have a slow first step and poor instincts. I don't know if there's anyone better behind him, but I'm certainly a lot more nervous when he's in the game.

Geoff Cameron played a hell of a game and has really become a strong defender. It's also nice to see Yedlin playing as well as he is. He's definitely taken a step forward. Kellyn Acosta is still a little rough around the edges, but he did not seem to be over his head in that game.

[bucksfan2]

bucksfan - I believe this was Arena's stated plan to the team all along - with the altitude and short turn around between games, he was going to go with fresh legs. Also, he apparently had planned to play Mexico in that shell that the team came out in, and I think he selected players he believed would fit that approach as well. Several of the changes involved guys who play in the Mexican league too. The one that puzzled me and still does is Beasley - at some point, being 35 and simply not fast enough is an issue, and it was on the Mexican goal. Oh, and Guzan at goal seemed weird to me, but Guzan didn't cost them the game, so I guess it was fine.

Still, Arena found a point in the Azteca, so hard to get mad about it from my end...

I thought I heard that Howard wasn't ready to play that soon at altitude when you factor he is coming off surgery and played Thursday night.

Granted getting a point out of Azteca is huge, he played a sub-optimal lineup, including Beasley who was complicit in the Mexican goal.

[M2]

With all the corners the U.S. got, I maintain Clint Dempsey would have gotten on the end of one and put it in the back of the net.

[Hoosier Red]

With all the corners the U.S. got, I maintain Clint Dempsey would have gotten on the end of one and put it in the back of the net.

Hard to disagree with this.
Can't imagine there was a whole lot of gain at other facets from Paul Arrieolla (sp?)
That was the most eye popping lineup change to me. My guess is that Arena really was worried about having to make substitutions at halftime and cutting off options later in the game.

[BuckeyeRed27]

I'm alive! If you ever get a chance to go to a USA/Mexico game, do it. Don't think twice about it. Buy a plane ticket and go, it is amazing.

It's been interesting reading these comments and I'm looking forward to watching the game again. I was surprised Beasley played, but I thought he played well or at the very least I'm not going to criticize his performance. He was not complicit in the Vela goal, that was a beautiful counter and an wonderful finish, it happens.

I knew we gave up a lot of possession, but I was surprised we only had 26% given the number of chances we had. I actually think that proves that Arena was completely correct tactically. Wood really needed to finish that chance that led to the Vela goal though. That one and the Omar header off the corner were the 2 that just seemed right there.

[Yachtzee]

Anyone watch Mexico get beaten by Germany's B team today? Man I love watching Mexico lose. Also, how stacked is Germany going to be at the next World Cup? They have this team in the Confederations Cup final and at the same time have their U21 team playing in the UEFA Euro U21 final.

[M2]

Anyone watch Mexico get beaten by Germany's B team today? Man I love watching Mexico lose. Also, how stacked is Germany going to be at the next World Cup? They have this team in the Confederations Cup final and at the same time have their U21 team playing in the UEFA Euro U21 final.

Germany and Spain are so far ahead of everyone else right, it's kind of crazy. In fact, their weakest links may be their A teams.

[bucksfan2]

Germany and Spain are so far ahead of everyone else right, it's kind of crazy. In fact, their weakest links may be their A teams.

Spain? I know we are entering into the glory days of German soccer, but I thought most of Spain's productive players aged very quickly I didn't know they had the young guys ready to go.

[RedTeamGo!]

Spain? I know we are entering into the glory days of German soccer, but I thought most of Spain's productive players aged very quickly I didn't know they had the young guys ready to go.

http://revolvingdoors.net/Revolving_Door.gif

[M2]

Spain? I know we are entering into the glory days of German soccer, but I thought most of Spain's productive players aged very quickly I didn't know they had the young guys ready to go.

Spain and Germany are playing for the UEFA U-21 title today. Real Madrid just won back-to-back UCLs with what might be half of the starting 2018 Spain team in its squad - Sergio Ramos, Dani Carvajal, Isco, Marco Asensio and Alvaro Morata. Spain still has the most dominant league in Europe, not just at the top with Madrid, Barca and Atletico, but it also wins the Europa League more often than not. Spanish exports also are all the rage for teams in England, Germany and Italy.

They've mostly retooled the main national squad. The biggest trick is figuring out the right combination from all the available options, and in replacing Pique before his lack of pace kills them. Anyway, Spain and Germany have enormously fat pipelines. It's them and then everybody else in terms of talent, though that doesn't mean they're shoo-ins to win everything (e.g. Euro 2016).

[BuckeyeRed27]

It is crazy that Germany can throw out a B team and just wreck Mexico's A team like that (although the game was a little closer than that score). Germany is so composed and almost seem like they have 15 guys in the attack. There just always seems to be someone open in the midfield.

The US is basically throwing out a B team for the Gold Cup and I bet they don't look as good in one game as Germany did against Mexico and I'm not insulting the US there, Germany is just that good right now.

[bucksfan2]

@M2 In regards to Real Madrid and their back to back Championships, their starting 11 is chalk full of internationals with only a few Spanish players starting. You obviously know more than I do about Spanish soccer, but the old guard was pretty much passed aside in the last WC and I just don't know enough about the younger players. While Real Madrid and Barca dominate international soccer, they are two of the biggest spenders in the game.

As for the Germans, I wonder if their "B" team isn't going to contribute to a ton of their next WC team? Germany finally got over the hurdle, but a lot of the household names are a little long in the tooth or done with the top level soccer.

[BuckeyeRed27]

@M2 In regards to Real Madrid and their back to back Championships, their starting 11 is chalk full of internationals with only a few Spanish players starting. You obviously know more than I do about Spanish soccer, but the old guard was pretty much passed aside in the last WC and I just don't know enough about the younger players. While Real Madrid and Barca dominate international soccer, they are two of the biggest spenders in the game.

As for the Germans, I wonder if their "B" team isn't going to contribute to a ton of their next WC team? Germany finally got over the hurdle, but a lot of the household names are a little long in the tooth or done with the top level soccer.

They will probably get a lot from this "B team", but the 2014 World Cup team actually wasn't that old. You would expect Neuer, Ozil, Khedira, Hummels, Mueller, Boateng, Gotze, and Kroos to all be on the 2018 team and none of them are playing in this tournament.

[M2]

@M2 In regards to Real Madrid and their back to back Championships, their starting 11 is chalk full of internationals with only a few Spanish players starting. You obviously know more than I do about Spanish soccer, but the old guard was pretty much passed aside in the last WC and I just don't know enough about the younger players. While Real Madrid and Barca dominate international soccer, they are two of the biggest spenders in the game.

I literally watch every Real Madrid game. Money helps, no doubt. Yet they haven't really broken the bank the past two seasons. Last year the big spend was bringing back Morata, which was relatively small potatoes for them. The year before it was Danilo, again not huge money and he's on the bench behind Carvajal. The key to this run has been spending less and getting a little more Spanish. When the defense got throttled by injuries last season, Nacho was the guy who stepped in, not some big money dude.

Spain's killer team did age out, though Sergio Ramos and David Silva are still really good (and Pique and Alba are still there), but they've reloaded. This team is going to have more of a Madrid influence (Barca's best young players left). Yet it's got Isco, Koke and Thiago in the midfield with Silva, Morata, Diego Costa, Asensio, Vitolo and Pedro up top. Cesc and Mata likely will be left at home.

[bucksfan2]

They will probably get a lot from this "B team", but the 2014 World Cup team actually wasn't that old. You would expect Neuer, Ozil, Khedira, Hummels, Mueller, Boateng, Gotze, and Kroos to all be on the 2018 team and none of them are playing in this tournament.

Absolutely. Those guys you mentioned seem like they have been around forever, but still are relatively young. I do wonder if some of those guys are going to get pushed to the bench by members of the current "B" team. But yea it would be nice in the WC to have a Gotze caliber player coming off the bench of filling in on a red.

[M2]

Amazing how fast the Netherlands has become a bad team. France is toying with them. Though it's only 1-0, because France is egalitarian and believes in letting its opponents hang around.

[Slyder]

anyone watch the USA/CRC game?

[paintmered]

anyone watch the USA/CRC game?

I wish I hadn't.

[RedTeamGo!]

That was absolutely pathetic. Costa Rica is clearly the better team. Arenas is garbage. Bradley is garbage.

Pathetic.

[dougdirt]

So we're back to calling people garbage, huh?

[RedTeamGo!]

So we're back to calling people garbage, huh?

:rolleyes:

[Hoosier Red]

So we're back to calling people garbage, huh?

You're garbage

[M2]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzHSF0ffMsg

[dougdirt]

You're garbage

I am not.

[M2]

Spain 3 Italy 0

Looks like Italy's going to need to play a qualifier tie to make the World Cup.

[MWM]

Spain 3 Italy 0

Looks like Italy's going to need to play a qualifier tie to make the World Cup.

That just breaks my heart.

[M2]

That just breaks my heart.

Italy's going through a major swoon. No amount of tactics and bus parking can mask the lack of talent coming out of that nation. It's apparent in the national team and in Serie A. Verratti's probably the most notable impact Italian playing outside Italy (after that who? Giovinco?) and Isco pie-faced him. Honestly, Italy's becoming a lot like Switzerland and Greece, which play exceedingly cynical football, get to major tournaments and impress no one. That game was a superpower vs. a side that's hoping to stick in the 2nd tier.

[M2]

Ireland bottled its WC chances over the past two games. Had the the group lead, now it's in 3rd behind Serbia and Wales. Meanwhile Iceland and Croatia top their group with Ukraine and Turkey just two points back of them.

The U.S. starts its must-tie (at least) qualifier against Honduras in 40 minutes.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Ireland bottled its WC chances over the past two games. Had the the group lead, now it's in 3rd behind Serbia and Wales. Meanwhile Iceland and Croatia top their group with Ukraine and Turkey just two points back of them.

The U.S. starts its must-tie (at least) qualifier against Honduras in 40 minutes.

Fun fact about the US starting line up tonight: half of the starters had their first US cap before Christian Pulisic was born.

[M2]

The US has 10 minutes to save its bacon, which is getting pretty crispy.

[BuckeyeRed27]

The US has 10 minutes to save its bacon, which is getting pretty crispy.

Well they saved it. That was brutally ugly, but I guess road CONCACAF games usually are. The goal was actually pretty nice. Great work by Jordan Morris to flick it back to Wood, that was hard to do.

Next month we play Panama at home in Orlando and then final game on the road at Trinidad. If we win both we are assured qualifying.

[M2]

Real interesting soccer implications around this Catalonian independence referendum. It's unclear how things proceed if they vote yes, so Spain isn't splitting up anytime soon. However, it could raise the question of whether Catalonian players should remain on the Spanish team. For instance, Pique's been vocal in favor of Catalonian independence. If the vote comes out that they're leaving, the national team might be where the break up starts.

Even if they try to keep this team together in a physical sense, can they keep it together in a spiritual sense? They'd almost need to proceed with a mercenary mindset. Do it for yourself. We'll go our separate ways after this World Cup cycle. In the meantime, put your names in the history books. Yet this potentially spells major unrest for one of the top teams in the world.

[Slyder]

Real interesting soccer implications around this Catalonian independence referendum. It's unclear how things proceed if they vote yes, so Spain isn't splitting up anytime soon. However, it could raise the question of whether Catalonian players should remain on the Spanish team. For instance, Pique's been vocal in favor of Catalonian independence. If the vote comes out that they're leaving, the national team might be where the break up starts.

Even if they try to keep this team together in a physical sense, can they keep it together in a spiritual sense? They'd almost need to proceed with a mercenary mindset. Do it for yourself. We'll go our separate ways after this World Cup cycle. In the meantime, put your names in the history books. Yet this potentially spells major unrest for one of the top teams in the world.

They could do like Russia did when the USSR first broke up for Olympics purposes. A "Spanish Federation" until Catalonia can garner its recognition from the various bodies.

[M2]

They could do like Russia did when the USSR first broke up for Olympics purposes. A "Spanish Federation" until Catalonia can garner its recognition from the various bodies.

Both sides of this have botched it so much at this point, it feels like they're about to have Spanish Civil War 2.0. Hard to believe this colossal mess won't affect the national team at some level.

[M2]

England is into the World Cup.

South America has a six-car pileup for three automatic spots and one play-in spot. Right now Argentina sits 6th, causing widespread panic over the notion of a Messi-less World Cup. Yet the team in the best spot might be Paraguay, which is in 7th. It just pulled out a late, come from behind win on the road against Colombia. Next it hosts the all but hapless Venezuela side and a win almost assuredly puts it into the World Cup.

[paintmered]

Match update: we have a Christian Pulisic and Panama does not.

[M2]

Ghana got robbed today. Two clear goals, one right at the end of the game for the win, got waived off. Barring a miracle, one of Africa's top teams is not going to the World Cup.

[M2]

Scotland manager Gordon Strachan chalked up his team's failure to qualify on a lack of height. That's right. Not a lack of speed or a lack of skill or a lack of modern tactics, they're just too short.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Looks like this game tomorrow against Trinidad might not happened. The field they are planning on using is flooded and there is more rain in the forecast today and tomorrow. Haven't heard any contingency plans yet.

[M2]

Iceland is through to the World Cup.

https://i.imgur.com//04FhtlJ.gif

[BuckeyeRed27]

They got the field cleaned up and looks pretty good. Just win baby.

[RedTeamGo!]

What is wrong with this team?

[M2]

What is wrong with this team?

It suffers from terminal brain farts.

Meanwhile I suspect Mexico and Costa Rica are going to find a way to lose each of their games. Their both tied at the moment after they entered the 2nd half with one-goal leads.

[M2]

Honduras has now taken a lead against Mexico.

[RedTeamGo!]

This is insane.

[dougdirt]

Alright, so at 2-1 for T&B, if the other scores also hold, what does the US need to do tonight? Tie? Win outright?

[M2]

Alright, so at 2-1 for T&B, if the other scores also hold, what does the US need to do tonight? Tie? Win outright?

They need a tie to guarantee they at least finish 4th, which puts them into a qualifier against Australia. If they lose and Honduras (currently winning) and Panama (currently tied) win, then they're out.

- - - Updated - - -

Chile, two-time defending champions of South America, just got eliminated.

[M2]

My plan right now would be Dempsey shoots as much as possible.

[M2]

The Hail Mary sub is Benny Feilhaber.

[M2]

Panama has scored. The U.S. is out if these results hold.

[dougdirt]

I don't even care about soccer.

- - - Updated - - -

Saying that makes things feel better. Right?

[M2]

I believe that we just lost.

[dougdirt]

I believe that we just lost.

Story of my sports life.

[paintmered]

Arena and Gulati both should be fired before they get to the airport.

[RedTeamGo!]

What an absolute embarrassment.

Fire everyone.

Anyone over 25 years old does not get a minute of playing time for the USMNT. Need to start developing the future, since the present and next 4 years is over.

What an absolute disaster for American soccer.

The sky is falling.

[Yachtzee]

This sucks. I was really looking forward to seeing what Pulisic could do on the World Stage. But I guess now we see if we get some wholesale change at the National Team level. Arena and Gulati need to step away and let someone else build from scratch.

[M2]

Story of my sports life.

This is one of the most stunning disappointments in U.S. sports history. The nearly impossible just happened.

[RedTeamGo!]

This is one of the most stunning disappointments in U.S. sports history. The nearly impossible just happened.

I don’t even know what to do or say. I follow the USMNT year round. I traveled to Germany in 2006 and cleaned out my savings to cheer them in person.

I feel sick. I want to cry.

[dougdirt]

This is one of the most stunning disappointments in U.S. sports history. The nearly impossible just happened.

Nearly impossible like being up 2-0 in a best of 5 series with 3 home games to play nearly impossible?

Or Miles Simon hitting a 75 footer to beat you nearly impossible?

Or losing your starting quarterback and wide receiver to injury on the first play of the game in your first playoff appearance in about 20 years nearly impossible?

Or getting no hit in your first playoff game in 20 years nearly impossible?

Why couldn't I have been born in Boston?

[M2]

Nearly impossible like being up 2-0 in a best of 5 series with 3 home games to play nearly impossible?

Or Miles Simon hitting a 75 footer to beat you nearly impossible?

Or losing your starting quarterback and wide receiver to injury on the first play of the game in your first playoff appearance in about 20 years nearly impossible?

Or getting no hit in your first playoff game in 20 years nearly impossible?

Why couldn't I have been born in Boston?

Clearly this is all your fault.

But I'm going to blame Michael Bradley. He was invisible that entire game. I saw the Ireland-Wales game yesterday and Ireland's #6 David Meyler was a beast, completely owned the middle of the field, made so many tackles the back of his shirt should have read "Butkus." The U.S. played with a void in the middle.

[dougdirt]

Clearly this is all your fault.

I will not argue with you on this.... but I will present an alternative theory: The Pete Rose Curse. Banned from being eligible for the HOF in February of 1991. The Reds won the WS several months prior. The Bengals won a playoff game a month earlier. Since? Well, pain and suffering would put it lightly. Blame Pete. But, I'll shoulder the blame if needed.

[Caveat Emperor]

Spoiler alert — there are no quick fixes.

[dougdirt]

Spoiler alert — there are no quick fixes.

Good news: They've got 4.5 years to figure out a fix.

[RedTeamGo!]

Good news: They've got 4.5 years to figure out a fix.

More like 3 years. They need to go into qualifying with a plan.

Also, everyone should see how Twellman’s rants tonight. He’s losing his **** on television and it’s amazing and spot on.

- - - Updated - - -


Spoiler alert — there are no quick fixes.

Which is why I think they need to completely blow it up. Fire everyone. Promote Ramos. Encourage the youth to play in Europe instead of the atrocious MLS. Do not give any minutes to anyone over the age of 25 years old.

[Yachtzee]

More like 3 years. They need to go into qualifying with a plan.

Also, everyone should see how Twellman’s rants tonight. He’s losing his **** on television and it’s amazing and spot on.

- - - Updated - - -



Which is why I think they need to completely blow it up. Fire everyone. Promote Ramos. Encourage the youth to play in Europe instead of the atrocious MLS. Do not give any minutes to anyone over the age of 25 years old.

The MLS isn't atrocious. It gets better every year. The problem is that it's making teams like Panama, Costa Rica, and Honduras better too because MLS teams have brought in a lot of players from Central and South America.

The problem at the USMNT level is that they have too many players playing on reputation rather than on form or passion. I find it ironic that some people were so willing to trash some of the German-American players Klinsmann had brought in as not having the passion for the shirt, yet tonight we saw some of the flattest play in a must win game with nary a German-American in sight. I would have loved to see some Jermaine Jones of old, or Fabian Johnson, or John Anthony Brooks out there if he wasn't hurt. Altidore, Bradley, Gonzalez and Besler all looked uninterested for big parts of the game. Even Yedlin, who is supposed to be one of the fastest guys in soccer, was letting guys beat him to the ball and get by. When Howard has to run down the goal line to clear his own save while everyone else ball watches in a must win game, that's a big problem. When your young 10 shirt playmaker has to come all the way to the top of your own penalty area to get the ball and bring it forward, you have a big problem.

[M2]

The MLS isn't atrocious. It gets better every year. The problem is that it's making teams like Panama, Costa Rica, and Honduras better too because MLS teams have brought in a lot of players from Central and South America.

MLS players were the key for the three non-Mexico qualifiers.

[BuckeyeRed27]

I don't even know what to do right now. I'm just kind of numb I guess. Leadership has to change and some good has to come from this because this is awful.

It's not just that it happened but the way it happened. T&T scores on a fluke own goal and some miracle wonder strike and we have 2 goals saved and hit the post in the last 15 minutes. Mexico and CR are both leading at one point only for those both to turn around. Panama gets a goal that wasn't a goal and a crazy 88th minute wonder volley to win.

There is going to be a ton of turnover but it's still sad that is the last time guys like Howard, Dempsey, Bradley and a lot of other guys will play for the US and unless it happens in some dumb friendly Dempsey is going to stay tied with Landon.

[RedTeamGo!]

Bradley = good riddance

The moment he gave up on playing legit club soccer in Europe and came back to MLS he started being mediocre at best.

What a shame. So much potential wasted because he went the safe and easy route.

And yes, having a roster full of a wunderkid who plays real soccer in the bundesliga and a bunch of MLSers isn’t going to cut it moving forward.

[RedTeamGo!]

The MLS isn't atrocious. It gets better every year. The problem is that it's making teams like Panama, Costa Rica, and Honduras better too because MLS teams have brought in a lot of players from Central and South America.

The problem at the USMNT level is that they have too many players playing on reputation rather than on form or passion. I find it ironic that some people were so willing to trash some of the German-American players Klinsmann had brought in as not having the passion for the shirt, yet tonight we saw some of the flattest play in a must win game with nary a German-American in sight. I would have loved to see some Jermaine Jones of old, or Fabian Johnson, or John Anthony Brooks out there if he wasn't hurt. Altidore, Bradley, Gonzalez and Besler all looked uninterested for big parts of the game. Even Yedlin, who is supposed to be one of the fastest guys in soccer, was letting guys beat him to the ball and get by. When Howard has to run down the goal line to clear his own save while everyone else ball watches in a must win game, that's a big problem. When your young 10 shirt playmaker has to come all the way to the top of your own penalty area to get the ball and bring it forward, you have a big problem.

Lol, what reputation are they playing on? That they are OK in their non relegation American League and cannot cut it in the big boy leagues of Europe?

The problem with the USMNT is what it has always been: not enough skill because of late and crappy development.

- - - Updated - - -

And Bruce Arena. Please never be seen again. If he is not fired tomorrow morning something is seriously wrong.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Bradley = good riddance

The moment he gave up on playing legit club soccer in Europe and came back to MLS he started being mediocre at best.

What a shame. So much potential wasted because he went the safe and easy route.

And yes, having a roster full of a wunderkid who plays real soccer in the bundesliga and a bunch of MLSers isn’t going to cut it moving forward.

Have to disagree on this. The MLS and domestic development is vital for the national team. Control over style and increased domestic competition is more important for the majority of players. If we are lucky to have top end players that can get playing time at the top 15 Europe clubs great, but that's not a plan to rely on.

Bradley has been a super important player for this team for a long time. We are all pissed, but Michael Bradley deserves a lot more than good riddance.

[RedTeamGo!]

Have to disagree on this. The MLS and domestic development is vital for the national team. Control over style and increased domestic competition is more important for the majority of players. If we are lucky to have top end players that can get playing time at the top 15 Europe clubs great, but that's not a plan to rely on.

Bradley has been a super important player for this team for a long time. We are all pissed, but Michael Bradley deserves a lot more than good riddance.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree on Bradley.

I’m not talking top 15 European clubs. I’m talking top European club LEAGUES. Playing against dudes that make $50k a year and washed up 35 years olds from Europe is not going to make your players better. Point blank.

Control over the Style sounds great. The problem is there is no style in MLS. It’s glorified college ball with a complete lack of skill.

It’s not about luck. It’s about not developing youth properly. US soccer simply has no clue how to develop skilled players.

[BuckeyeRed27]

We are just going to have to agree to disagree on Bradley.

I’m not talking top 15 European clubs. I’m talking top European club LEAGUES. Playing against dudes that make $50k a year and washed up 35 years olds from Europe is not going to make your players better. Point blank.

Control over the Style sounds great. The problem is there is no style in MLS. It’s glorified college ball with a complete lack of skill.

It’s not about luck. It’s about not developing youth properly. US soccer simply has no clue how to develop skilled players.

We might have to agree to disagree on all of this. What you just described isn't what the MLS has been for several years and certainly isn't what it has the potential to be. Where I do think we agree is that we do have to do a better job of player development. That is going to take a coordinated effort between MLS and US Soccer leading the way. The roots are already there and now is the time to really drive it forward. Whatever that ends up looking like, it's not going to be hoping American teenagers catch on in European leagues, it's going to be better domestic development.

[RedTeamGo!]

We might have to agree to disagree on all of this. What you just described isn't what the MLS has been for several years and certainly isn't what it has the potential to be. Where I do think we agree is that we do have to do a better job of player development. That is going to take a coordinated effort between MLS and US Soccer leading the way. The roots are already there and now is the time to really drive it forward. Whatever that ends up looking like, it's not going to be hoping American teenagers catch on in European leagues, it's going to be better domestic development.

I am trying not to be a dick, but your plan here is exactly why the USMNT is going to be sitting out in 2018 and why we are missing out on one of the few opportunities to watch Christian Pulisic in his prime on the world stage.

I am just so disgusted right now.

[bucksfan2]

We might have to agree to disagree on all of this. What you just described isn't what the MLS has been for several years and certainly isn't what it has the potential to be. Where I do think we agree is that we do have to do a better job of player development. That is going to take a coordinated effort between MLS and US Soccer leading the way. The roots are already there and now is the time to really drive it forward. Whatever that ends up looking like, it's not going to be hoping American teenagers catch on in European leagues, it's going to be better domestic development.

I agree with RedTeamGo! on this one. Admittedly I don't watch much MLS soccer, I usually watch the EPL on weekend mornings and then from time to time will watch FCC if I have nothing to do. The MLS I watch is very sparingly and have a tough time stomaching it. I did watch Schweinsteiger as a shell of himself cash out of ManU because he couldn't play but come into the Chicago Fire and dominate the game. This isn't a knock on what the MLS is, I just think it clearly is lacking in top tier competition. It was night and day when Bradley left Roma to play for Toronto, at the top levels you have to be much more precise. Your touches have to be better, your anticipation has to be better, your overall game has to be better because you can't rely on athleticism. The guy you are defending is as good of an athlete or better than you are.

I know there isn't an easy fix. I also know that over the next decade you will see soccer and basketball grow in popularity while NFL decline. But they need to refocus their efforts on changing up the model. I get what you are saying about the MLS improving most of CONCACAF, but if the USMNT wants to get better, they need to focus on getting their best players to play against the best competition in their prime. We have seen too many times a promising young player get a big pay day from the MLS only to never regain their top level ability.

[Boston Red]

I don't follow soccer, and am at best indifferent to the U.S. not making the World Cup, so take this for whatever little it's worth, but isn't the idea of focusing on developing soccer talent domestically and having top players compete in the MLS akin to Spain deciding the best way to develop their national basketball program is by having its top players stay in the Euro Leagues and not play in the NBA? Seems kinda ludicrous judged by that standard (so maybe it's not the right standard?).

[RedTeamGo!]

I don't follow soccer, and am at best indifferent to the U.S. not making the World Cup, so that this for whatever little it's worth, but isn't the idea of focusing on developing soccer talent domestically and having top players compete in the MLS akin to Spain deciding the best way to develop their national basketball program is by having its top players stay in the Euro Leagues and not play in the NBA? Seems kinda ludicrous judged by that standard (so maybe it's not the right standard?).

You are correct.

It’s american arrogance. Point blank.

[BuckeyeRed27]

You are correct.

It’s american arrogance. Point blank.

That is not correct and not a good analogy. I'll post later with other thoughts.

[Chip R]

I know there isn't an easy fix. I also know that over the next decade you will see soccer and basketball grow in popularity while NFL decline. But they need to refocus their efforts on changing up the model. I get what you are saying about the MLS improving most of CONCACAF, but if the USMNT wants to get better, they need to focus on getting their best players to play against the best competition in their prime. We have seen too many times a promising young player get a big pay day from the MLS only to never regain their top level ability.

What is the priority, making the MLS a top league in the world or developing the U.S. players for the USMNT and the World Cup? Because it doesn't seem like you can do both.

[Slyder]

Arena and Gulati both should be fired before they get to the airport.

I wouldn't stop there. Anyone over about 33 would be off the MNT. I loved watching Howard and Company over the years but this team severely under performed. This team needs new blood, not guys living off a World Cup almost a decade ago.

[Boston Red]

So the next thread is USMNT - ????? 2022, right? Surely it won't actually be Qatar, right?

[RedTeamGo!]

What is the priority, making the MLS a top league in the world or developing the U.S. players for the USMNT and the World Cup? Because it doesn't seem like you can do both.

Players for the USMNT and International play. Absolutely no doubt. If US soccer is prioritizing the MLS, that is an extremely serious issue.

[RedTeamGo!]

I wouldn't stop there. Anyone over about 33 would be off the MNT. I loved watching Howard and Company over the years but this team severely under performed. This team needs new blood, not guys living off a World Cup almost a decade ago.

33??!! That’s way over the hill. I wouldn’t play anyone over 25.

[Caveat Emperor]

We are just going to have to agree to disagree on Bradley.

I’m not talking top 15 European clubs. I’m talking top European club LEAGUES. Playing against dudes that make $50k a year and washed up 35 years olds from Europe is not going to make your players better. Point blank.

Control over the Style sounds great. The problem is there is no style in MLS. It’s glorified college ball with a complete lack of skill.

It’s not about luck. It’s about not developing youth properly. US soccer simply has no clue how to develop skilled players.

It's so much more complicated than that.

You can start with the youth system here in America, which is completely broken and has no easy fixes. There's an incredible shortage of qualified coaches for youth players in this country -- even now, in 2017, we rely too heavily on volunteers and parents to coach kids (many of whom never played at a level above high school and lack even the most basic coaching licenses). For youth players who do show promise, the costs of continuing to play and advance in the sport can be astronomical. Unless you're one of the lucky few, most American soccer players have to come from families of at least some means if they want to have any hope of advancing in the sport. Then, you have the high school and college system to look forward to -- both of which run incredibly short seasons (relative to world football), feature rule sets that are completely different (including a countdown clock and unlimited substitutions), and that prioritize results/winning over player development (since coaches are hired/fired based on team performance).

The fact that we bring any kind of talent out of this system is absolutely shocking. And then, once you get to the professional level, you have a massive chicken/egg problem with the fact that MLS ratings are just garbage. Garbage ratings mean mediocre television deals (~$4m per year, per team -- which is roughly what Xavier University makes for just it's share of the Big East's basketball TV deal), and mediocre television deals mean little money to spend to improve rosters -- which leads to low TV ratings. MLS is on a slow-growth trajectory, which suits them after all the fast-flameout leagues that spent themselves to death trying to grow the sport (including both incarnations of the NASL).

None of these problems have easy fixes, and all of the fixes suggested commonly (including the annoying refrains from the #ProRel4US hashtag community) come with massive negatives for the US Soccer system that could just as easily result in backsliding.

Long story short, it's going to be a long way out of this hole for the United States.

[M2]

Control over the Style sounds great. The problem is there is no style in MLS. It’s glorified college ball with a complete lack of skill.

It’s not about luck. It’s about not developing youth properly. US soccer simply has no clue how to develop skilled players.

Like any other league, development varies team to team. My team (New England) doesn't develop talent and plays with zero style, but Dallas and RSL run skill factories. I think the U.S. needs a broader soccer pyramid so that more small teams are developing more players in more places from a wider variety of economic/social backgrounds, which then funnels prime talents to the top. Yet MLS is a pretty good league (no doubt in my mind it's superior to the Championship in England) and some clubs do a fine job of developing players. The thing is most of this is relatively new, so we had a fairly weak class of players age 25-30 in this cycle. They missed out on two Olympics and a World Cup. The generation behind them looks a lot better, and probably should have been elevated sooner. For instance, Matt Miazga (originally a Red Bulls product) probably should have been in the central defense last night.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Good post CE, you brought up a lot of points I was going to make.

I want to expand on my US Soccer/MLS point from earlier than RTG seems to have taken so much umbrage about. I think the biggest failing Jurgen had coming in as the US soccer coach was that he correctly identified the development issue and then completely and utterly botched what to do about it. He alienated MLS and the best support system that he had. The coordination between MLS and US Soccer is at the youth and Academy levels, not at top level. Most if not all of the MLS teams have already started to build this up and an investment and coordination with US soccer is the best and quickest way to develop players in this country. That is not to say it is the only way and that if players are able and willing to go to academies in Europe than sure, of course they should do that. But we have to provide a domestic alternative to travel team, high school and college development system that currently exists because it doesn't work. CE made a great point about the costs involved for kids to stay involved at soccer past a certain point and eliminating that burden has to be the focus of US Soccer going forward.

As for the current player pool and where they should play, honestly I don't think it matters that much. A player with the skills of Pulisic that can play at top 15 team, should do that. Michael Bradley isn't a worse soccer player today than he was 5 years ago. He was the best US player on the field in our game against Mexico like 2 months ago. I do believe he was hurt at the national team level but Jurgen and his terrible personal and game management and playing a guy like him out of position. I just don't agree that if he had stayed at Roma or wherever, he is markedly better player than he is today. The point being is each situation for each player is different and the most important thing is for each player to play consistently no matter where that is.

[M2]

IThere is going to be a ton of turnover but it's still sad that is the last time guys like Howard, Dempsey, Bradley and a lot of other guys will play for the US and unless it happens in some dumb friendly Dempsey is going to stay tied with Landon.

Dempsey should play again, specifically during the Gold Cup cycle in 2019. He was the guy who seemed likeliest to score in the latter stages of yesterday's game. It's going to be a young team that will require at least a little bit of veteran guidance and Dempsey's the best geezer the U.S. has got at the moment.


Bradley has been a super important player for this team for a long time. We are all pissed, but Michael Bradley deserves a lot more than good riddance.

No, Bradley deserves to be booted out of the airplane. The primary problem with the USMNT is an inept midfield. Any amount of pressure and they give away the ball, and Bradley is the primary culprit. One of the great mistakes made in this cycle was not replacing him with Fabian Johnson. Bradley simply cannot hang at the international level anymore.


I don't follow soccer, and am at best indifferent to the U.S. not making the World Cup, so take this for whatever little it's worth, but isn't the idea of focusing on developing soccer talent domestically and having top players compete in the MLS akin to Spain deciding the best way to develop their national basketball program is by having its top players stay in the Euro Leagues and not play in the NBA? Seems kinda ludicrous judged by that standard (so maybe it's not the right standard?).

Like Caveat said, it's complicated. You need domestic development because that's where 95% of your potential player pool lives. And MLS teams have the most resources to develop those players. Yet we're a huge country and MLS can't begin to cover it all. There's got to be more than MLS if we want the job done righ. On top of that, top prospects do jump over to Europe in increasing numbers. So we're not cordoned off from the rest of the world when it comes to development, though we definitely need to do a better job of leveraging overseas development.


For youth players who do show promise, the costs of continuing to play and advance in the sport can be astronomical. Unless you're one of the lucky few, most American soccer players have to come from families of at least some means if they want to have any hope of advancing in the sport.

This is the big one. They need more Clint Dempseys (who came out of an east Texas trailer park) and fewer IMG products. It's not just that they're missing out on a major talent pool, it's the grit and creativity too. You could see the lack of urgency and inability to adjust on the field last night.


including the annoying refrains from the #ProRel4US hashtag community

They've got a point, and it's kind of hard to argue against after last night. We need a more diverse, bottom-up system. We need more clubs producing more players. Pro-rel is a key part of that process in the rest of the world. It gives a team like FCC a carrot. Do this well and you can go all the way to the top. Instead we're defending billionaire investors. Again, I can tell you firsthand, Bob Kraft does not deserve to have a "major league" soccer team. A system where he could fail his way out and FCC could succeed its way in would amp up the competitive and developmental pressure on every club.

I'd also add that unequal leagues produce great players. Superclubs are the lifeblood of their national teams. They also feed the lesser clubs in their leagues. Their castoffs become the star players for mid-table teams. The drive to protect MLS parity and its poobahs is not conducive to having a class national team.

[Caveat Emperor]

They've got a point, and it's kind of hard to argue against after last night. We need a more diverse, bottom-up system. We need more clubs producing more players. Pro-rel is a key part of that process in the rest of the world. It gives a team like FCC a carrot. Do this well and you can go all the way to the top. Instead we're defending billionaire investors. Again, I can tell you firsthand, Bob Kraft does not deserve to have a "major league" soccer team. A system where he could fail his way out and FCC could succeed its way in would amp up the competitive and developmental pressure on every club.

I'd also add that unequal leagues produce great players. Superclubs are the lifeblood of their national teams. They also feed the lesser clubs in their leagues. Their castoffs become the star players for mid-table teams. The drive to protect MLS parity and its poobahs is not conducive to having a class national team.

I understand all of the arguments for Pro/Rel in terms of financial incentives to invest. I love the idea, in theory, of a system that encourages teams to invest in their foundations (academy systems, facilities, scouting & recruiting, etc.) so that more good soccer prospects have access to top quality coaching without needing to pay the ridiculous fees associated with the sport currently.

In practice, Pro/Rel in the US is going to result in the same things it results in everywhere else in the world: massive stratification between clubs, and a flight of resources to a few select clubs with everyone else left fighting over table scraps and trying to maintain a positive balance sheet. In the United States, that's going to be mean an MLS that is basically a coastal league -- with the midwest / central portions of the country unable to financially compete. Pro/Rel is a dream dangled in front of places like Cincinnati, Louisville, and Indianapolis as a way of justifying owners in New York and Los Angeles getting rich. That works in Europe, where people are born into fandom, where derbies and rivalries can make a season, and where there aren't 4 other professional sports competing for attention. In the United States, we just change the channel to something else when our teams are mired in losing seasons or (worse) when they drop down to some who-cares bus league.

And, to be sure: MLS needs to be part of the solution in US Soccer. We need a strong domestic league that keeps people invested in the game throughout their lives, gives children something to aspire to, and keeps "soccer" as a part of the sports landscape across the nation. The kid in the midwest needs a team to support just as much as the kid in New York or Miami does.

As much as the current USSF is in a mess, it would be equally a mess to reflexively apply Euro-based solutions to a uniquely American problem. I don't pretend to have answers (and I didn't stay at Holiday Inn Express last night), but I know that the way forward in the United States is going to be something that addresses all of the problems unique to the United States.

[nmculbreth]

Out of curiosity, what sort of outreach is USA Soccer doing in urban areas?

Perhaps I'm totally off base but I've always thought the type of skills of an elite PG would cross over really well to soccer and that stealing a few of those kind of kids away from basketball every year would have a huge impact for USA soccer.

[M2]

In practice, Pro/Rel in the US is going to result in the same things it results in everywhere else in the world: massive stratification between clubs, and a flight of resources to a few select clubs with everyone else left fighting over table scraps and trying to maintain a positive balance sheet.

Probably. I'd say maybe even hopefully. Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern, Man U, Juventus, Milan - those clubs produce absurd amounts of talent. Steel sharpens steel. MLS can't have it both ways. If it's a well-heeled, chaotically-competitive league, then it's not going to produce a whole lot of elite talent for the USMNT. Those players are going to have to get themselves to Europe if they want to take that step.


In the United States, that's going to be mean an MLS that is basically a coastal league -- with the midwest / central portions of the country unable to financially compete. Pro/Rel is a dream dangled in front of places like Cincinnati, Louisville, and Indianapolis as a way of justifying owners in New York and Los Angeles getting rich.

Don't forget Chicago. It's a sleeping giant, not that such a thought will make you feel any better. Mind you, it would not be good for my local rooting interests. I suspect New England would drop quickly and the Boston area wouldn't have another top flight team for 10-20 years.


That works in Europe, where people are born into fandom, where derbies and rivalries can make a season, and where there aren't 4 other professional sports competing for attention. In the United States, we just change the channel to something else when our teams are mired in losing seasons or (worse) when they drop down to some who-cares bus league.

But FCC is already in one of those leagues and it's kind of awesome, right? Put it this way, I'd trade what I've got (a bloodless, complacent MLS franchise that plays in a mostly empty exurban football stadium) for what you've got (2nd tier in a downtown location with incredible support). You've got a team to support. I've got a team that's nearby.


As much as the current USSF is in a mess, it would be equally a mess to reflexively apply Euro-based solutions to a uniquely American problem. I don't pretend to have answers (and I didn't stay at Holiday Inn Express last night), but I know that the way forward in the United States is going to be something that addresses all of the problems unique to the United States.

I hear that a lot, but we're not going to reinvent the game. On top of that, I think the top-down structure of U.S. soccer is uniquely ill-suited to the United States. Even if there's 32 MLS teams, that's a tiny footprint on the national map that can't begin to develop a wider variety of players from the ground up. If you think about football, baseball, basketball and hockey, there's massive development systems in place that exist outside the auspices of the professional leagues. Colleges, high schools and elite programs produce the talent and the pro leagues skim off the top. In fact, the NFL outsources all of its development.

As you noted, high school and college soccer are not going to produce the talent to form a top league, let alone a top national team. The MLS draft is mostly a waste of time. So that avenue is shut off. Well, what's going to replace those thousands of non-MLS programs? The current answer is rich kids soccer ... and we just saw the limits of that exposed in stark detail. Much as you might want to resist "Euro-based solutions" they do have a solution, and it works really well. Every town has got a team. It's a massive ecosystem.

Pro-rel is part of how they maintain that ecosystem. Sometimes there's firewalls within the national structures. The top two German leagues form a closed loop separate from the lower leagues. Maybe the U.S. could use pro-rel to fuel more team growth at the lower levels and keep it away from MLS until/unless it produced results. There's got to be some way for a wonder kid from Des Moines to emerge, and the answer is not MLS. Yet maybe if there was some incentive to start up Ethanol SC he'd be discovered.

[Redsfaithful]

Pro-rel is a total fantasy right? Like, fun to talk about theoretically, but never going to happen?

I don't know how the Crew would fare in a system like that, but I'd be all for it. If you want to grow the game it looks like a no brainer. I wish we had it in baseball.

[Caveat Emperor]

Pro-rel is a total fantasy right? Like, fun to talk about theoretically, but never going to happen?

I don't know how the Crew would fare in a system like that, but I'd be all for it. If you want to grow the game it looks like a no brainer. I wish we had it in baseball.

You'd have to sell TV Execs on the concept of a league that might lose major markets like New York, Boston or LA and have them replaced by places like Tulsa, Charleston or Louisville -- so yeah, I think it's a complete and total pipe dream.

I like pro/rel in the EPL, because I'm a Chelsea fan and there's minimal danger of them ever going down so long as Roman keeps pumping money into the team. In any other league? Hell no. It's rough enough being a Cincinnati Reds fan without also worrying that the team will end up in some bus league playing in who-cares cowtowns.

[M2]

Out of curiosity, what sort of outreach is USA Soccer doing in urban areas?

Perhaps I'm totally off base but I've always thought the type of skills of an elite PG would cross over really well to soccer and that stealing a few of those kind of kids away from basketball every year would have a huge impact for USA soccer.

It's minimal where I am.

Our local women's team, the Breakers, is highly involved at the local level (mostly suburban rather than urban). The Revs don't do much more than hold tryouts for their handful of youth teams. A kid from nearby is actually one of the few who've come up through that system, but they didn't ID him or nurture him at a young age. He just showed up on their doorstep. The Revs don't provide much monetary or logistical support to help youth programs in urban areas. They do some one-off events and name-your-town/city gatherings at their games (but that's marketing).

[M2]

Pro-rel is a total fantasy right? Like, fun to talk about theoretically, but never going to happen?

Yes. I mean, maybe because SUM is the entity that pulls all the strings it could decide to demand a change for the benefit of the national program or FIFA will feel like messing with the U.S. (no World Cup unless you reorg your league), but the billionaires who own the teams aren't going to jeopardize their investments unless they're forced to do it. Cities are lining up to pay expansion fees. So this is a highly theoretical discussion.

[M2]

You'd have to sell TV Execs on the concept of a league that might lose major markets like New York, Boston or LA and have them replaced by places like Tulsa, Charleston or Louisville -- so yeah, I think it's a complete and total pipe dream.

I don't think that's too hard a sell, largely because of the stratification that probably comes with it. And with two teams in both L.A. and NYC, those markets have built-in insurance policies in case something like this year's Galaxy happens. Boston's only vaguely aware it has a team.

Also, what if MLS does a big league? Supposedly 32 teams is its magic number. 16 teams in the east, 16 in the west, 34-game schedule (2 games against in-conference foes, 1 against teams from the other conference). After you get that set and establish a second-tier (so this is no time soon), you relegate two teams out of each conference. That leaves 28 protected slots for marquee franchises.

The flip side is Tulsa, Charleston and Louisville actually have a chance. The EPL has had 49 clubs play in it since 1992. So TV execs would get to sell a revolving door of fresh faces and the late season drama of fighting for survival. It's proven a TV-friendly format with other leagues.

[Redsfaithful]

I think the point of sports is to maximize the amount of drama (ideally all on field).

The relegation system seems to provide that. I would love an environment where things like rivalries and random tournaments meant so much too. How much fun would it be if MLB took a couple of weeks off here and there for a massive tournament that included Japanese teams, Korean teams, Cuban teams, Dominican teams, etc? Not like the World Cup, the actual teams.

It looks like a dream to me. I doubt I'll ever see anything like it in America, which is a shame. I think if it were marketed well a Euro system could be part of the long term fix for MLS tv ratings.

And to tie it back in, I don't know that the US becomes a soccer powerhouse without MLS tv ratings. That's a weird thing to come back to, but it drives the financial side, and that's what's needed.

[Caveat Emperor]

I think the point of sports is to maximize the amount of drama (ideally all on field).

The relegation system seems to provide that. I would love an environment where things like rivalries and random tournaments meant so much too. How much fun would it be if MLB took a couple of weeks off here and there for a massive tournament that included Japanese teams, Korean teams, Cuban teams, Dominican teams, etc? Not like the World Cup, the actual teams.

It looks like a dream to me. I doubt I'll ever see anything like it in America, which is a shame. I think if it were marketed well a Euro system could be part of the long term fix for MLS tv ratings.

Sports fans love drama.

TV Execs love the Yankees and the Red Sox.

[Betterread]

This too shall pass. This qualification campaign has been in trouble for a long time and this failure was always one of the potential outcomes. IF the USSF conducts a good search process, they ought to be able to find a good coach to take on the challenge of turning around this program. I think a commitment to finding a full new younger team should start immediately.
Howard and Bradley should be "encouraged" to focus on their club teams and retire from the national team. Both have some uses, but they should no longer be the strategic focus of the defense and midfield.
I know a lot of fans love Bradley and he is a big star with a big salary in Toronto, but I watched him closely when he trained and wore the kit for Roma. He is super fit and can run all day but he has no clue about unlocking tough defenses. And technically, his lack of skill was evident. In Italy, he was a depth player, not a starter. You can't blame him for choosing to play a key role in a lesser league and get paid big bucks.

[M2]

I know a lot of fans love Bradley and he is a big star with a big salary in Toronto, but I watched him closely when he trained and wore the kit for Roma. He is super fit and can run all day but he has no clue about unlocking tough defenses. And technically, his lack of skill was evident. In Italy, he was a depth player, not a starter. You can't blame him for choosing to play a key role in a lesser league and get paid big bucks.

Bradley's an effort player emblematic of what the USMNT has been. If this loss has taught U.S. Soccer anything it should be that a higher level of skill is required.

[Caveat Emperor]

Bradley's an effort player emblematic of what the USMNT has been. If this loss has taught U.S. Soccer anything it should be that a higher level of skill is required.

It’s why the only style of play the US has ever excelled in was bunker and counter.

[M2]

It’s why the only style of play the US has ever excelled in was bunker and counter.

And it just doesn't work anymore. It's why I wasn't wild about Arena coming back. He was a throw back when the program needed another step forward.

[Yachtzee]

First, let me just say that, if you aren't supporting your local team, whether it be Columbus Crew, FC Cincinnati, the Revs, LA, Indy Eleven, University of Akron, or whatever, you may just be part of the problem. Listening to SiriusXM FC today and reading some of the commentary only, it seems quite a few people want to talk up the EPL, Bundesliga, La Liga, Serie A, etc. as ideal models to follow, with their pro/rel and their super clubs. When asked if they watch the MLS, they say they don't, but they seem to be all too willing to offer opinions as to why MLS is no good and how they much prefer watching "proper football" from Europe. Well that's all well and good, but if you've ever lived over there or visited and had a decent conversation about soccer, at some point they're going to ask you who your team is. If your first answer is "Man U" or "Chelsea" or "Bayern," there's a pretty good chance they're not going to take you seriously as a fan of "proper football." There's nothing wrong with liking those teams, but if you ask them what the biggest problem with American soccer (besides the fact that we call it "soccer"), they may well point to American fans. Because what they see is a lot of American tourists coming over wearing their European jerseys and buying tickets to games, claiming they love such and such European team without really knowing much about the history of the club beyond the last 5 years and not being able to tell them anything about the game. The friend who took me and my boys to a match in England asked me how Americans think their team will get better when so many Americans don't support their own league and their own teams. Of course, I pointed out to him that we're getting better about that, that leagues like MLS, USL and NASL (at the time) are growing and attendance is going up, but we're still at a stage where our Division 1 league is just over 20 years old. So if you're serious about wanting US Soccer to improve and haven't done so already, go out and support your nearest pro club, or college team, or heck, check out a PDL game every once in a while. You may not witness World Class Football, but you might actually have a good time. Besides, saying "I don't really watch MLS" and then proceeding to tell everyone what's wrong with MLS is like saying "I don't really watch the Cincinnati Reds" and then proceeding to tell everyone what's wrong with the way they play baseball.

[RedTeamGo!]

FWIW i do watch MLS

[Yachtzee]

It’s why the only style of play the US has ever excelled in was bunker and counter.

I don't know about that. They have done well at times with playing a possession-oriented style. Although I actually wish they would have played more bunker and counter last night. I think the bigger question is, why are USMNT coaches not putting players in the best positions to succeed? Watching the game last night, it seemed like Arena had too many guys out there that prefer to occupy the same space and no real defensive mid to help control the area between your defensive line and the middle of the field. At times I felt like they were playing a 4-1-5. Their shape was terrible and they lost too many 50/50 balls to the hungry Soca Warriors.

[Yachtzee]

Some thoughts on Pro/Rel. Personally, I love Pro/Rel as a concept. Who doesn't like the idea of team being promoted to the top tier based on merit and others being relegated based on poor performance (well except for the relegated). Sports as capitalist meritocracy! The problem with pro/rel is that you have to have enough teams with the means to compete on the next highest level, and have the facilities in place to compete, and you have to have sufficient revenues available and other incentives available to encourage relegated teams to accept relegation rather than just fold. People like to point to the excitement of the promotion and relegation battles, but no one really discusses the aftermath. We Americans like the feel-good story of Leicester the season before last, but no one really discusses former big teams like Leeds United, Portsmouth, Nottingham Forest, and Blackburn Rovers going into financial hell after relegation. Or worse, we don't really look at other leagues, where teams get promoted, are required by the governing body of the country they play in to spend large sums of money to upgrade their facilities or else find a place to play in another city in order to get licensing for the higher division, which ends up bankrupting the team, resulting in a points deduction for financial instability, which in turn gets them relegated as well as bankrupt. Or we could look at Mexico, where the owners of relegated clubs just dump their club and purchase one of the newly promoted teams and promptly move them to the stadium where the relegated club played, and changed the name to that of the relegated club. Until and unless Soccer in the US has enough teams with owners at the lower levels that can afford to be promoted and we have financial safeguards and incentives in place to ensure relegated teams will be able to continue as a going concern, Pro/Rel just isn't a reasonable option. Right now, we don't even have enough D2 teams with plans in the works to build the stadiums and the facilities to meet the requirements of playing in MLS to be promoted. If you look at the 12 candidates who submitted expansion bids, there are only 3 with firm plans to build a stadium that would be needed for MLS play.

[Yachtzee]

So going forward, the biggest questions I've heard today involve player development. How do we develop better players? Well a lot of people complain about the pay to play system we have here in the US and how playing for a premier club is beyond the finances of many families. While I agree that Pay to Play does limit who can and can't play on some of these teams, the US development system is hardly a monolith. There is of course rec league, but there are also quite a few travel teams out there that don't require large outlays of money to play and some have good coaches that can go out and regularly beat some of the premier club teams. There are also more professional academies springing up as MLS teams and even European teams start opening and expanding training academies. But still, we aren't going to get rid of pay to play as long as there are parents willing to spend craptons of money to have their kids run around on a pitch with personalized kits and monogrammed soccer bags.

But what can be done is provided greater financial incentives to MLS teams, USL teams, and even some of these private academies and club teams by modifying roster and transfer rules? At the MLS level, I'd like to see MLS allow teams to sign as many homegrown players as they wish without them being counted against the salary cap. While they can't carry all those players on the active roster, they can loan out those players to other teams both in MLS and to other leagues. Furthermore, I think that MLS should allow teams to keep all transfer money they receive for homegrown players they sell period. While I can understand why the league gets a cut of the transfer fees under the Single Entity arrangement in some instances, like players who transfer into the league and require help from MLS in order to complete the transfer, I think allowing teams to keep all the transfer fees for players they develop through their academies will encourage teams to invest more in their scouting and academies in order to gain an advantage not just from homegrown players they can bring into the squad, but also players they can sell to other clubs. The more quality players MLS and other academies can produce, the more money teams from Europe and Asia will be willing to pay for our players, which in turn brings in more money to invest in player development here. I think we might also do well to get on board with the rest of FIFA and recognize solidarity payments (payments made to the club or academy that developed a player by a team that subsequently gets a transfer fee for that player down the road). If done properly, some of the more successful youth premier clubs might be able to do away with pay to play altogether if MLS teams give them a cut of players they developed as youths.

[IslandRed]

Pro-rel is part of how they maintain that ecosystem. Sometimes there's firewalls within the national structures. The top two German leagues form a closed loop separate from the lower leagues. Maybe the U.S. could use pro-rel to fuel more team growth at the lower levels and keep it away from MLS until/unless it produced results. There's got to be some way for a wonder kid from Des Moines to emerge, and the answer is not MLS. Yet maybe if there was some incentive to start up Ethanol SC he'd be discovered.

Someday I'm going to drop "Ethanol SC" into a conversation and I'll try to remember to credit you when I do.

[Chip R]

Out of curiosity, what sort of outreach is USA Soccer doing in urban areas?

Perhaps I'm totally off base but I've always thought the type of skills of an elite PG would cross over really well to soccer and that stealing a few of those kind of kids away from basketball every year would have a huge impact for USA soccer.

That's a good question. But is there an answer? It's not like being from the inner city is a detriment to developing as a soccer player. Anyone with a passing knowledge of soccer realizes that many stars have come from that environment. They don't need a ball or goals or even a pitch. They have formed rags or whatever into a ball and kicked it around the streets. But other than soccer, they didn't have a lot of other options. Here, there's baseball, basketball and even football. So even if you can identify the talent they may still choose other sports over soccer. Soccer also doesn't have the long history here that it does in other countries. There's also not a short avenue to getting paid as there is in the other sports - save for baseball. Compared to basketball, are there many schools and "amateur" organizations out there who have soccer teams? Basketball's pretty straightforward. Play in school and the playgrounds as a little kid then, when you're old enough and if you're good enough, there's AAU. There's also high school but right now that's secondary to being on an AAU team. Then, if you're good enough it's off to college for a year (and in the near future, you may be able to bypass that again) and then it's the NBA or overseas ball. In baseball they are at least making an effort to get kids from the inner cities playing again. When they get old enough, their path is much like a basketball player. Only it's travel teams and high school. If they are good enough, like Hunter Greene, they can get a huge signing bonus and do their time in the minors - although that "apprenticeship" may be a reason why there are fewer African Americans play in MLB. Maybe a kid goes to college but a lot of the time, that's not a full scholarship. It's also not a real high interest to people. How many people at your job fill out College World Series brackets? After 3 years you can get drafted or go back to college. If you're drafted it's the minor leagues. Football may be in decline because of head injuries but there's no shortage of kids getting scholarships into college despite any academic deficiencies. Would colleges make exceptions for inner city soccer athletes like they do for football and basketball players? Even if a soccer player is good enough to go pro at a young age, it seems like if he wants to improve, he has to go overseas to play. That's quite an adjustment.

It may sound defeatist but soccer in this country isn't like basketball, football and baseball. For years this country has dominated those sports on the international level. For decades we were sending college kids to play basketball in the Olympics and they still dominated. Until recently there hasn't been any international competition for baseball and by that time, other countries have improved so much they can beat the U.S. on a regular basis. Football is still dominant in the U.S. While most every kid in this country plays soccer at a young age, most gravitate to other sports. So U.S. soccer may not be getting the creme de la creme of the athletes in this country while in places like France, Italy, Argentina and Germany most of the great athletes are soccer players and have been for decades. While they do have basketball programs it's not the sport of priority in those countries. Soccer is getting more and more popular. There is no denying that. But it's still a work in progress. Even if the USMNT starts getting great players on their team, it's no sure thing that they will win the World Cup. I realize that they should have made the World Cup and they blew it but even if they had made it, this conversation would be the same but just delayed a year. Is the best player on the USMNT as good or better than Ronaldo or Neymar or Messi? That's what we are up against. Even our best may not be good enough. Even if the U.S. were good enough to make the knockout round of the World Cup on a consistent basis but not win the Cup, would that be good enough for fans? During the Lost Decade, us Reds fans would have loved to make the playoffs at least once. But when they started to get good enough to make the playoffs on an almost annual basis at the beginning of this decade, it wasn't good enough because they never won it all. Same for Bengals fans. They have been annual playoff participants for the better part of this decade. At first it was a reason to celebrate but when they lost in the 1st round year after year that wasn't good enough. Is the goal to get the USMNT to the World Cup and hope they can make it to the next round and hope for a 1980 hockey miracle or is it to get them to be good enough to win the whole thing? We're already at the former level. Is the latter level impossible?

[M2]

Someday I'm going to drop "Ethanol SC" into a conversation and I'll try to remember to credit you when I do.

The logo could be a modified version of this:

https://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2009/5/13/saupload_firecorn.jpg

[bucksfan2]

Even if the USMNT starts getting great players on their team, it's no sure thing that they will win the World Cup. I realize that they should have made the World Cup and they blew it but even if they had made it, this conversation would be the same but just delayed a year. Is the best player on the USMNT as good or better than Ronaldo or Neymar or Messi? That's what we are up against. Even our best may not be good enough. Even if the U.S. were good enough to make the knockout round of the World Cup on a consistent basis but not win the Cup, would that be good enough for fans?

There is a Woody Hayes quote that says "There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you." Truthfully I think the USMNT is there now. I think this past qualifying cycle has been nothing but a massive disappointment started from the first rounds of qualification. The USMNT had to win its last game in order to reach this past stage, something that should never happen. Arena (and Jurgen to an extent) played this entire qualifying stage not to lose. They played they played the old guard, the players who have been there done that, but were on the downside of their career. They never could find a reliable back four, and due to the poor nature of their play, the weren't able to really tinker with the back line. For as long as I have been watching the USMNT they always seem to concede an early goal, or allow a great early chance for the opponents because of sloppy play.

I know a lot of the debate is Europe vs MLS. For me at least, the European game is played at a higher level, a higher skill level, a level that does afford sloppy play. When I watch the USMNT the play seems sloppy. The play seems sloopy, to many errors on the back line allowing too many good chances. Guys like Howard and Guzan were awful in the qualifying stages, and I think some of it is age, but I also think some of it is they haven't played against the top competition in years. I understand why Arena went with Howard, but the guy was old in the last WC cycle and no longer is a top notch GK. There isn't a reason why the national team can't be more like Belgium or the Netherlands where the local league is good, but most of their top players graduate to the top for European leagues.

Of the guys you mentioned, Ronald, Neymar and Messi, none of them have won the WC. It takes a cohesive unit in order to win the world cup. Over the past decade we have seen two super power nations come, Spain and Germany, both were built over a period of time and both are/were dominant on the world stage. The thing with both German and Spain is they went deep. Their second team could compete on the world stage, it wasn't just one person. I could ask you who the best German or Spaniard was, and a debate would ensue. Truth be told, I think the USMNT has as much talent as it ever has. But I think for the majoirity of qualifying Jurgen and Arena continued to play older meh players in key roles.

But back to may Woody Hayes quote, without an utter disaster things may not have changed. With the missing out on the WC and the anger that has ensued, things will change. Which in the end may not be that bad of a thing.

[Yachtzee]

That's a good question. But is there an answer? It's not like being from the inner city is a detriment to developing as a soccer player. Anyone with a passing knowledge of soccer realizes that many stars have come from that environment. They don't need a ball or goals or even a pitch. They have formed rags or whatever into a ball and kicked it around the streets. But other than soccer, they didn't have a lot of other options. Here, there's baseball, basketball and even football. So even if you can identify the talent they may still choose other sports over soccer. Soccer also doesn't have the long history here that it does in other countries. There's also not a short avenue to getting paid as there is in the other sports - save for baseball. Compared to basketball, are there many schools and "amateur" organizations out there who have soccer teams? Basketball's pretty straightforward. Play in school and the playgrounds as a little kid then, when you're old enough and if you're good enough, there's AAU. There's also high school but right now that's secondary to being on an AAU team. Then, if you're good enough it's off to college for a year (and in the near future, you may be able to bypass that again) and then it's the NBA or overseas ball. In baseball they are at least making an effort to get kids from the inner cities playing again. When they get old enough, their path is much like a basketball player. Only it's travel teams and high school. If they are good enough, like Hunter Greene, they can get a huge signing bonus and do their time in the minors - although that "apprenticeship" may be a reason why there are fewer African Americans play in MLB. Maybe a kid goes to college but a lot of the time, that's not a full scholarship. It's also not a real high interest to people. How many people at your job fill out College World Series brackets? After 3 years you can get drafted or go back to college. If you're drafted it's the minor leagues. Football may be in decline because of head injuries but there's no shortage of kids getting scholarships into college despite any academic deficiencies. Would colleges make exceptions for inner city soccer athletes like they do for football and basketball players? Even if a soccer player is good enough to go pro at a young age, it seems like if he wants to improve, he has to go overseas to play. That's quite an adjustment.


No offense, Chip, but at this point I think we need to stop going back to what I call the "Pele Myth" as a reason why players in other countries are better at soccer than us. There's this whole mythos that kids in South America and Europe are running around kicking oranges and taped up balls of rags around the street from the time they come out of their mothers' wombs. I can remember in the old NASL days when we would here stories of how Pele came from a dirt poor favela in Sao Paulo where he had to kick around oranges and balls of rags because they couldn't afford a soccer ball. The thing is, for modern soccer players, unless they come from Africa, that story has nothing to do with how players learn the game in other countries. Sure you might have a few kids these days that someone might spot out in the favelas of Sao Paulo or the barrios of Buenos Aires, but by and large, most players come from middle or working class backgrounds, play for an organized club and end up being scouted and snapped up by professional academies before they're 10 years old. Brazil in particular seems to be overrun with scouts and agents, not just from Brazilian clubs, but from European clubs as well, and I suspect Chinese teams will start going there as well to get players younger and younger. In places like Germany and England, kids just aren't having a kick-about in the street. They too are playing organized soccer at an early age. But there, every town has a pro or semi-pro team and every team has an academy with professional coaches. The story that the World's top soccer players grew up playing in the streets with homemade ersatz soccer balls applies to maybe 5% of professional players. The reality for the true poor people of these countries is that their kids aren't out playing soccer, they're probably working.

In fact, as much as we want to criticize American soccer development systems, we actually aren't that bad at developing youth players. There was a discussion about the issue today on SiriusXMFC and if you look at what the US is doing internationally at the U-17 and U-20 level, we're actually doing pretty good, and have been doing well for a while. The problem doesn't appear to be with the quality of our youth talent. We have a lot of great players in that Age 15-19 range. The problem is that there is a tendency for a lot of players that don't follow the same growth in skill and technical ability from 19-23 that players in other countries make. Why is that?

Well the discussion on the radio focused on how, in other countries, kids at age 17-19 years old are being moved from playing in the academy to playing full time pro soccer, whether it be for their club's reserve squad or being loaned out to a lower division team. In that kind of environment, they're playing against pros of all different ages and experience levels, so they're constantly in an environment where they aren't the best player on the field. When they do get to the point where they're the best player on the field, they either get moved up to the parent club or they get sold to a bigger club and have to work their way up from the bottom again. It's a constant stream of challenges against an ever increasing level of talent.

Contrast that with America, where most players, even many MLS Academy players, will end up playing a combination of college soccer and PDL soccer in in those ages from 17-21, 22 years. The college season is short, being fall only, and they play with unlimited subs, so players aren't putting in a full 90 minutes. Players can supplement by playing on as an amateur on a PDL team, but again, it's a short season and there's no real consistency of training throughout the year. But most importantly, at those ages most of these players are only really playing against other players within their own age group and not getting challenged by guys in their mid to late 20s who have much more playing experience. So the better players end up being the best players on the field, but can't move up to the next level unless they can sign a homegrown contract with an MLS team or drop out of school early and enter the MLS draft. At the point they enter MLS, they're 20-21 years old and looking at either riding the bench a season or two, playing reserves, or being loaned to a USL team at a time when players that age in other countries have been playing pro soccer year round that whole time and are now pushing their way into the first team at the highest level.

I think if we really want to improve the quality of US players at the national level, what we really need is a fully fleshed out soccer pyramid from Division 1 to Division 4 with each division playing a full season with transfer policies that fall in line with the international rules. That, or maybe US Soccer, MLS, USL, and the NASL have to tell the NCAA that they need to allow college players to play pro soccer in the off season or they will start encouraging players to skip college and go pro. Another suggestion I heard was having the NCAA allow universities to have a fall and spring season for soccer, but somehow I don't see that happening. If we want better players, we need to have our players from age 17 on playing year round against the best talent they can handle.

[M2]

Yachtzee, great post and a few thoughts:

- The book Soccernomics produced the numbers that show countries with money (and Brazil and Argentina do in the grand scheme of things) produce more and better players than truly poor nations. As you noted, it's about finding the sweet spot where working class kids have opportunities.

- One of the big disconnects, IMO, is the national team is not playing the game younger players have been taught at the youth levels. There has been a skills focus. It's inconsistent and far too many youth programs are willing to sweep it aside for results, but your U-17 and U-20 national team players have been taught to caress the ball with their feet like it's a robin's egg. Yet the senior national team still plays like it's trying to qualify for the 1990 World Cup. It's a cultural thing and nobody's dared to smash that culture because it produced results. Yet younger players certainly seem lost when they're being asked to play like chickens with their heads cut off (keep running until you drop). Much as I think I never need to see Darlington Nagbe in a national team shirt again, maybe there's something to the notion that he's been asked to chase the game rather than control it.

- The college thing is interesting. They'd really need to play September-May to make it work, but it still would have the problem of them only playing inside their age cohort. The upside is you'd have thousands of institutions ready to share the developmental load. Duplicating that geographic span with professional teams would take decades. Yet if top players are just going to bypass the college ranks anyway, then we might as well start down the long path toward building out the base of the pyramid - regional leagues, players eligible at age 16 (same as in hockey), some sort of first dibs for MLS teams on kids developed in their region.

[Chip R]

No offense, Chip, but at this point I think we need to stop going back to what I call the "Pele Myth" as a reason why players in other countries are better at soccer than us. There's this whole mythos that kids in South America and Europe are running around kicking oranges and taped up balls of rags around the street from the time they come out of their mothers' wombs. I can remember in the old NASL days when we would here stories of how Pele came from a dirt poor favela in Sao Paulo where he had to kick around oranges and balls of rags because they couldn't afford a soccer ball.

I must have not been clear in my somewhat rambling post. I started it yesterday and had to restart from scratch today. My smaller point was that if those other countries could do it we can too. Now if that's somewhat of an urban legend, that's fine. But nmculbreth was curious if soccer could snatch up those kids from the inner cities that would normally use their skills for basketball. My larger point was that soccer is working with a handicap in this country. Not only is soccer somewhat of a relatively new sport here but it has competition with football, baseball and basketball which have somewhat easier roads to fame and fortune without leaving the good old USA. Without football, baseball or basketball, LeBron James may have been a great goalkeeper. But even if he had played soccer growing up and there was no basketball, could he have had the same path to being world famous as he did playing basketball? Could he have graduated high school and made millions of dollars and had worldwide fame for a MLS team?

[Redsfaithful]

If it could somehow materialize with similar level of attendance (huge hypothetical I know) would MLB's minor leagues be a good enough development system?

i.e. AAA baseball players aren't really making that much, but some of those guys do get big draft bonuses. Are AAA level soccer players in other countries making more money than AAA baseball players here?

Also, what's a AAA level soccer club cost an owner? I think a AAA baseball team is low 8 figures here the last I read.

I don't think counting on the NCAA to do anything intelligently or to help out at all is going to be a way forward.

[dougdirt]

Just to put numbers out there - Triple-A guys who have NOT reached free agency (which isn't too many, honestly), make $2,150 a month the first year they are in Triple-A, $2,400 a month the second year in Triple-A and $2,700 a month for their third year. Once you are a free agent you can get whatever you can. Some guys get $15,000 for the year, some guys get $150,000 (usually MLB vets who teams use as insurance).

[paintmered]

AAA baseball players aren't really making that much, but some of those guys do get big draft bonuses. Are AAA level soccer players in other countries making more money than AAA baseball players here?

Yes, and by a big margin, at least in England. I don't know how the Championship compares with Germany's, Spain's and Italy's second divisions. I presume their salaries are much closer to the Championship than AAA baseball.

Championship salaries are hard to find, but I found this for last year's Aston Villa squad. It's probably higher than the Championship average since it was their first season post- relegation, but the greater point still stands.

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/597568/Aston-Villa-weekly-wages-sportgalleries

[Redsfaithful]

That's a big hill to climb then.

[bucksfan2]

Yes, and by a big margin, at least in England. I don't know how the Championship compares with Germany's, Spain's and Italy's second divisions. I presume their salaries are much closer to the Championship than AAA baseball.

Championship salaries are hard to find, but I found this for last year's Aston Villa squad. It's probably higher than the Championship average since it was their first season post- relegation, but the greater point still stands.

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/597568/Aston-Villa-weekly-wages-sportgalleries

Don't you have to take into consideration the amount of money Aston Villa stands to gain if promoted? The difference between Championship and AAA is Championship are their own team, not a farm team. I would imagine if AAA clubs could be promoted, the salaries would increase significantly.

[Reds Fanatic]

Bruce Arena has officially resigned

http://www.espnfc.com/united-states/story/3227739/bruce-arena-resigns-as-united-states-manager-after-world-cup-miss

[Caveat Emperor]

Predictably, Sunil has declined to resign.

[Yachtzee]

I must have not been clear in my somewhat rambling post. I started it yesterday and had to restart from scratch today. My smaller point was that if those other countries could do it we can too. Now if that's somewhat of an urban legend, that's fine. But nmculbreth was curious if soccer could snatch up those kids from the inner cities that would normally use their skills for basketball. My larger point was that soccer is working with a handicap in this country. Not only is soccer somewhat of a relatively new sport here but it has competition with football, baseball and basketball which have somewhat easier roads to fame and fortune without leaving the good old USA. Without football, baseball or basketball, LeBron James may have been a great goalkeeper. But even if he had played soccer growing up and there was no basketball, could he have had the same path to being world famous as he did playing basketball? Could he have graduated high school and made millions of dollars and had worldwide fame for a MLS team?

One thing I'd like to point out is that there is actually quite a bit of soccer being played in the inner city, if the city is any decent size. My middle son has regularly played an inner city club in Akron and I can drive by any number of parks where kids through adults are playing soccer in the parks on weekends, way more so than baseball. In fact, the next town over completely removed a bunch of baseball fields in some of its parks and replaced them with soccer fields and other baseball fields have weeds growing in the infield dirt while the outfields now have soccer lines. And you touch on it, but I'll take it a little further, basketball, football, and even baseball favor a different body type than soccer. I think that if LeBron James were born in Europe or Brazil or Argentina, chances are he still would have become a basketball player. Everything about him says basketball and there are quite a few European and South American players in the NBA now. Those three sports favor a lot of upper body strength and running in short bursts, whereas soccer favors players with endurance, exceptional foot dexterity, and a low center of gravity. Some of the best creative players are 5'9" or less. The best player on my high school soccer team was 5'6". We have tons of kids playing soccer and youth soccer coaching is getting better all the time. Coaches are moving away from the old school way of playing, where the idea was to have all the kids boot it to the biggest, fastest kid on the field, who would take it down the field and shoot. There's a lot more focus on technical training, working with the ball at your feet, and understanding space. I don't think the problem is that the best youth soccer players are choosing to play football, basketball, or baseball. I think the problem is that, for kids whose parents can afford it, they get into pay-to-play clubs where the focus is getting kids a college scholarship rather than getting them ready to play pro ball. For the kids whose parents can't afford it, there are still a lot of kids playing high school soccer, but they just aren't getting the year-round training and development that the kids in academies or pay-to-play clubs get.

Rather than focusing on the inner cities with regard to youth soccer, I think the place where soccer hasn't quite made an impact is in the smaller cities and towns. For example, this year my middle son started his first season at the premier club level and we have some parents driving their kids from the Youngstown area, an hour and 15 minutes away from the practice facilities, 3 times a week because they don't have a decent club in their area. My nephews wanted to play soccer when they were little, but where they live in New Philadelphia, they didn't really have a rec league where they could learn the game until the past few years. Where I live, my kids had the opportunity to play rec league starting at age 3. Because he expressed an interest, my middle son had an opportunity to play on a travel team for the city club where he played rec soccer starting at age 9. And now at 11, he and some of his friends wanted to move on to the next challenge of premier club soccer. Contrast that with my sister's kids, who if they wanted to play at age 3-8, would have had to played in Canton, a 45 minute drive from their house, which they just couldn't do due to work schedules. So their boys played baseball and their younger son, who is also now 11, would only just now have the opportunity to play rec soccer to learn the game at a point where his cousin has been playing for years and is playing at a completely different level. And imagine if they could have gotten off work. They would have been driving their boys a total of one and a half hours a couple times a week for rec league soccer. When you factor in an hour or so for practice or a game, that's 2 1/2 to 3 hours out of your day, 2 - 3 times a week for soccer, which is a significant commitment for any family. I suspect that the holes in the soccer map are more likely to be found in blue collar communities like Youngstown and New Philly than they are in the inner cities. In those places, forget about the cost of pay to play. It's more about the time and desire to engage in drive to play. My 11 year old nephew now plays football, and that involves a commitment of 2 hours an evening in the fall, 5 nights a week, plus games on Saturdays, and that still costs a nice chunk of money for the equipment and the uniform. But he practices and plays on the field by his school, so they don't have to drive and they don't have to stay for practice, so they can do other things with their evenings instead of committing the whole family to driving to the next county for the evening. Of course my nephew may well be better suited for football anyway. His dad is a big guy and he already looks like a linebacker.

[Yachtzee]

Predictably, Sunil has declined to resign.

I wasn't able to hear the interview, but everything I've been told about it leads me to believe that Sunil is very much a FIFA guy and is going to hold onto his position until something drastic happens, like he gets indicted or the big time sponsors threaten to bolt if the board doesn't remove him.

[M2]

I wasn't able to hear the interview, but everything I've been told about it leads me to believe that Sunil is very much a FIFA guy and is going to hold onto his position until something drastic happens, like he gets indicted or the big time sponsors threaten to bolt if the board doesn't remove him.

Gulati is swiftly becoming the focal point for "if he doesn't go, then nothing much is going to change."

[MWM]

When Claudio Reyna opens his mouth, smart things come out of it. He had some extremely candid things to say today about what's wrong with America soccer.

Hers my favorite, "What I think has happened in the past 10 years is we're confusing investment, expansion, growth, [U.S. Development Academy], and all these other things with progress. All these things have sort of created a feeling that we're progressing, but I call it expanding, growth and more fans.

From the general growth side it's happening, but are we really progressing? When I look around at certain levels I don't see progress happening."

http://www.espnfc.com/united-states/story/3233905/claudio-reyna-slams-united-states-soccer-were-far-too-arrogant

[Yachtzee]

When Claudio Reyna opens his mouth, smart things come out of it. He had some extremely candid things to say today about what's wrong with America soccer.

Hers my favorite, "What I think has happened in the past 10 years is we're confusing investment, expansion, growth, [U.S. Development Academy], and all these other things with progress. All these things have sort of created a feeling that we're progressing, but I call it expanding, growth and more fans.

From the general growth side it's happening, but are we really progressing? When I look around at certain levels I don't see progress happening."

http://www.espnfc.com/united-states/story/3233905/claudio-reyna-slams-united-states-soccer-were-far-too-arrogant

I wonder if he has any interest in challenging Sunil Gulati. He certainly has both the soccer credentials and the administrative experience at NYCFC. I'd like to see what kind of solutions he could help the powers that be come up with. I keep hearing rumors that Landon Donovan and Eric Wynalda may challenge Sunil in the next election for president of the USSF. As much as I like them as players, I don't know that they have the administrative experience to run an organization that size. Reyna, on the other hand, may just have that combination of soccer IQ and administrative know how to get things done and take US Soccer to the next level.