5/28/16 - Reds @ Brewers

[Tom Servo]

C. Trent Rosecrans ‏@ctrent 4h4 hours ago Juneau Town, Milwaukee
#Reds lineup: Cozart 6, Votto 3, Phillips 4, Bruce 9, Duvall 7, Suarez 5, Holt 8, Barnhart 2, Simon RHP


Game underway, enthusiasm high on Redszone.

[Tom Servo]

Cozart and Votto gone on 4 pitches, BP singles and Bruce flies out to the warning track in center.

[Big Klu]

Cozart flyout to RF
Votto groundout 4-3
Phillips single
Bruce flyout to the wall in LCF.

[Big Klu]

Every time Simon pitches, they should wear the red "Los Rojos" jerseys. His only good performance came while wearing that uniform.

[Big Klu]

I hate instant replay review. That call went in the Reds'favor (Villar grounds out 6-3) but I still hate it.

[Tom Servo]

Thom pointing out that Scooter Gennett is playing lousy, so he promptly triples.

[Big Klu]

Scooter triple
Lucroy RBI single. 1-0 Brew Crew

[Tom Servo]

I swear the Brewers aren't much better on paper than the Reds, the Reds just manage to do everything wrong. I maintain firing the manager might help things go 20% less wrong, but I know I'm preaching to the choir.

[Big Klu]

Another review....

E3 stands.

[KYExtemper]

Something needs to be done with the review system. Challenges are up because there are no consequences for losing.

[redsfanmia]

[QUOTE=Big Klu;3477401]Another review....

E3 stands.[/QUOTEnm

[redsfanmia]

I wonder what is up with Votto? He just seems disinterested.

[Big Klu]

I swear the Brewers aren't much better on paper than the Reds, the Reds just manage to do everything wrong. I maintain firing the manager might help things go 20% less wrong, but I know I'm preaching to the choir.

I wanted to fire Price at the end of last season. I wanted to fire him before Spring Training started. I wanted to fire him during Spring Training. I wanted to fire him when they broke camp in Goodyear. So when I call for his head it has nothing to do with the 15-33 start.

[Big Klu]

Nieuwenhuis walks to load bases.
Hill infield single to SS. 2-0 Brew Crew

[Tom Servo]

Awful

- - - Updated - - -


I wanted to fire Price at the end of last season. I wanted to fire him before Spring Training started. I wanted to fire him during Spring Training. I wanted to fire him when they broke camp in Goodyear. So when I call for his head it has nothing to do with the 15-33 start.
Yeah, same. People say "Oh, you're just blaming him for losing" but I honestly lost all faith in him Opening Day last season when he thought after 7 innings of shutout ball from Cueto that of all the guys to pitch the first inning out of the bullpen in 2015 that Kevin Gregg was the right choice. He had all offseason to think about it, and that was his decision. Everything since then has just been gravy on top to me.

[redsfanmia]

I wanted to fire Price at the end of last season. I wanted to fire him before Spring Training started. I wanted to fire him during Spring Training. I wanted to fire him when they broke camp in Goodyear. So when I call for his head it has nothing to do with the 15-33 start.
He is a bad manager, I remember all the Dusty bashing and how Price was going to be innovative.

[Big Klu]

Presley grounds into a 6-4-yessiree-3 to end the inning.

2-0 Brewers

[Tom Servo]

"Well done by Simon"


uhhhhhhhhh

[jpurdy974]

Should have said "Simon is done"
"Well done by Simon"


uhhhhhhhhh

[Big Klu]

Brewers lineup was not posted here, so here are both lineups:

CIN
Cozart ss
Votto 1b
Phillips 2b
Bruce rf
Duvall lf
Suarez 3b
Holt cf
Barnhart c
Simon p

MIL
Villar ss
Gennett 2b
Lucroy c
Carter 1b
Nieuwenhuis rf
Hill 3b
Presley lf
Broxton cf
Anderson p

[Big Klu]

Duvall ground out 5-3
Suarez HBP
Holt ground single into LF
Barnhart HBP
Simon grounds into a 4-6-3 DP

[Tom Servo]

Simon grounds into a 4-6-3 DP
I'd have pulled him for a pinch hitter. Seriously.

[KYExtemper]

He is a bad manager, I remember all the Dusty bashing and how Price was going to be innovative.

Firing Dusty was where this franchise started going downhill IMO.

- - - Updated - - -

The Reds are so bad this season that I'm going to do manager mode in OOTP 17 just to see if I can do better than Price.

[Tom Servo]

Suarez's barehands are getting good, now just needs to work on the regular ground balls and liners.

[Big Klu]

Broxton ground out 5-3 (excellent play by Geno)
Anderson flyout to RF (well-struck ball)
Villar K's swinging

2-0 MIL after 2

[Tom Servo]

Firing Dusty was where this franchise started going downhill IMO.

I understood the thinking. Dusty was the Mark Jackson who was old-school and just couldn't get the team over the hump, and Price was supposed to be the Steve Kerr who took them over the top.

Price got a bit of a raw deal with injuries and spending limits, but he sold us a bill of goods. As a manager he is just Dusty without the charisma.

[OnBaseMachine]

Why was Simon swinging anyway?

[Big Klu]

I'd have pulled him for a pinch hitter. Seriously.

Shades of Sparky pinch-hitting Dan Driessen for John Vukovich in the second inning.

[Big Klu]

THom misses Skip Schumaker.

Why am I not surprised?

[Big Klu]

I understood the thinking. Dusty was the Mark Jackson who was old-school and just couldn't get the team over the hump, and Price was supposed to be the Steve Kerr who took them over the top.

Price got a bit of a raw deal with injuries and spending limits, but he sold us a bill of goods. As a manager he is just Dusty without the charisma.

I liked Dusty. My only concern with him was his health.

[Big Klu]

Cozart groundout 2-3
Votto doubles into RF corner
Phillips groundout 5-3, runner holds
Bruce K's

CIN 0
MIL 2
Mid 3

[Tom Servo]

I liked Dusty. My only concern with him was his health.
I went back and forth on Dusty. Overall I liked him, but there were things he did that drove me nuts (batting order, always wanting 5 innings from the starter, etc). I did think after the 2013 loss that it seemed like he just wasn't ever going to get the Reds to a World Series, and possibly not even an NLCS, so I understood looking elsewhere.

[Strikes Out Looking]

I hate this team at the moment. If it wasn't for their bad fundamentals they'd have no fundamentals at all

[Kc61]

Not sure the manager is the major issue right now. Depends on the mental state of the team. If they are feeling too much pressure, or if the clubhouse is negative, they should go with Riggleman. If the attitude is good but the players just stink, they should keep Price to the end of the year.

I will say that watching these games - certain players in particular - I find myself completely exasperated. Some of these guys are absolutely unwatchable right now.

I'm less bothered by some of the pitchers, they are who they are. But some of these hitters are driving me nuts.

[Big Klu]

Gennett groundout 1-3
Lucroy groundout 6-3
Carter flyout 7! Outstanding catch by Duvall!

[malcontent]

I wanted to fire Price at the end of last season. I wanted to fire him before Spring Training started. I wanted to fire him during Spring Training. I wanted to fire him when they broke camp in Goodyear. So when I call for his head it has nothing to do with the 15-33 start.
You're not daydreaming on what he could do with a 2-year extension?

;)

[Big Klu]

I hate this team at the moment. If it wasn't for their bad fundamentals they'd have no fundamentals at all

Gloom, dispair, and agony on me!

https://drblakegillespie.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/gloom-despair-and-agony-on-me.jpg

[Big Klu]

You're not daydreaming on what he could do with a 2-year extension?

;)

No, but I'm concerned he might get one. And I'm even more concerned that there are RedsZoners I respect who think it's a good idea.

[Big Klu]

Duvall doubles to LF corner
Suarez flyout to RF, 9F (foul territory). Duvall tags up and goes to 3rd
Holt broken bat RBI single to RF stretched into a double. 2-1 MIL
Barnhart flyout to RF, 9. Holt tags up and goes to 3rd
Simon HBP as Holt attempts steal of home. Holt returns to 3rd (would have been successful)
Cozart groundout 3-1.

Mid 4,

CIN 1
MIL 2

[Knightro28]

Duvall doubles to LF corner
Suarez flyout to RF, 9F (foul territory). Duvall tags up and goes to 3rd
Holt broken bat RBI single to RF stretched into a double. 2-1 MIL
Barnhart flyout to RF, 9. Holt tags up and goes to 3rd
Simon HBP as Holt attempts steal of home. Holt returns to 3rd (would have been successful)

What a bizarre sequence. Love the hustle from Holt.

[Strikes Out Looking]

Are the Brewers channeling the Pirates or just plain wild? And is Larussa going to go after Eucker next?

[Big Klu]

Holt would have been successful on the straight steal of home if Simon hadn't been HBP.

[redsmetz]

Are the Brewers channeling the Pirates or just plain wild? And is Larussa going to go after Eucker next?

That pitch was thrown at Simon purposely to thwart the squeeze. Frustrating that it's permitted.

[Big Klu]

Nieuwenhuis groundout 4-3
Hill BB
Presley lineout to SS, 6L
Broxton FC grounder, 6-4. Hill out at 2nd

Cincinnati 1
Milwaukee 2
End 4th

[Tom Servo]

Thom thinks Simon is throwing the ball well. I see a guy with 2 walks to 1 strikeout tenuously balancing between lucky and unlucky.

[Big Klu]

That pitch was thrown at Simon purposely to thwart the squeeze. Frustrating that it's permitted.

I don't think it was a squeeze, as there were two outs. I think Simon was showing bunt to run interference for Holt.

[Tom Servo]

Borderline K call, seemed like Mt. Votto was about to erupt.

[Big Klu]

Votto K's looking
Phillips flyout to wall in RF, 9
Bruce K's swinging

Cincinnati 1
Milwaukee 2
Mid 5th

[Knightro28]

You just knew it was coming. Not excusable. Simon is dirty.

[Tom Servo]

lol

[powersackers]

Simon should have done it. But the ejection is fair.

[PuffyPig]

Good for Simon, though he deservedly gets the toss.

[Big Klu]

You just knew it was coming. Not excusable. Simon is dirty.

Interesting...

But bad idea to hit the opposing pitcher to lead off the inning in a one-run game.

(He got him good, though.)

[Tom Servo]

Simon once again eating innings, all four of them, before getting himself thrown out.

Can we please cut this guy already.

[malcontent]

Simon once again eating innings, all four of them, before getting himself thrown out.

Can we please cut this guy already.
Single-digit ERA. Give the guy a shot, Servo.

:)

[cincinnati chili]

I think Simon's transgression calls for a 324-game suspension.

[Tom Servo]

Shouldn't we have gotten a warning first?

[Wolves198921]

Well now we have no outs with the pitcher on and the top of the lineup coming up in a close game. It's alright I guess I'm used to it.

[Knightro28]

I have to give credit to Price for sticking up for his players (not necessarily Simon's intent on the pitch, but for the 3 HBP's his team has taken).

[malcontent]

Naming this year's pitching staff will make a helluva trivia question. In November.

[Tom Servo]

AJ Morris coming in to pitch. Thom fawning over Simon's 4 not-horrible innings today.

[cincinnati chili]

Shouldn't we have gotten a warning first?

I don't think so. When it's so clearly on purpose, I don't think you waste time with warnings.

[powersackers]

Shouldn't we have gotten a warning first?

No. It's umpires discretion. And we all know it was 100% intentional. Just like Anderson's hitting Simon was 100% intentional, but not retaliatory. Simon's was.

[Big Klu]

Shouldn't we have gotten a warning first?

A warning isn't necessary. An umpire can eject a pitcher if he feels the pitcher is intentionally throwing at a batter.

[Elam]

There should have been a warning after Simon got plunked but I doubt that would have changed what just happened. Simon wanted revenge, got it, then got tossed.

Now they should probably warn both benches, but again what does a warning do?


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[Tom Servo]

I don't think so. When it's so clearly on purpose, I don't think you waste time with warnings.
The Pirates got a warning when their pitcher buried the first pitch in BP's ribs after the Reds hit a batter the previous inning.

[lnn6574]

He'll get his two million dollars either way, but I agree. Now all it takes is for them to hit Duvall and break his wrist and Simons signing could really get expensive. I understand the beaning, but it could lead to other guys getting hurt.

[WrongVerb]

Thank goodness it's AJ Morris in to take over for Simon.

And by that, I mean "who?"

[PXShaman]

Shouldn't we have gotten a warning first?
What marty asked. Cowboy then said all about intent but then said Simon got hit on purpose .
I am so confused by that ejection.

[westofyou]

Alfredo Simon's problem solving skills need some refining


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[traderumor]

If the umpire read "intentional" on that pitch, then he was the only person in the world that missed "intentional" on the squeeze play. That is the injustice here. He didn't toss Anderson and everyone knows he plunked Simon intentionally to prevent the squeeze.

[traderumor]

Alfredo Simon's problem solving skills need some refining


No Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
When those who handle justice fail to, it is common to take matters into one's own hand. If the umps get it right and throw out Anderson, then he's not there to plunk. So maybe the umps can problem solve better and do their job with the HB issue?

[Big Klu]

Anderson HBP. Simon ejected.

Morris in to pitch for the Reds.
Villar flyout to CF, 8
Gennett K's swinging
Lucroy 2-run HR to LF. 4-1 MIL
Carter BB
Nieuwenhuis K's swinging

Cincinnati 1
Milwaukee 4
End 5th

[Tom Servo]

I thought that was a flyout off the bat. Just kept going.


Pretty sure at least half of Lucroy's HRs have come against the Reds.

[Red Raindog]

This team is really getting too hard to watch -- I need therapy

[westofyou]

When those who handle justice fail to, it is common to take matters into one's own hand. If the umps get it right and throw out Anderson, then he's not there to plunk. So maybe the umps can problem solve better and do their job with the HB issue?

There is no defending Simon, it was a stupid and selfish act. He threw his teammates under the bus there.

This team needs a win, not a moral victory

[Wolves198921]

Could have gotten out of the inning down 2-1. Instead a guy getting paid millions throws a temper tantrum, hits a guy that can't hit, now down 4-1. Now a another loss is on the way when there was an outside chance of a win.

[PXShaman]

When those who handle justice fail to, it is common to take matters into one's own hand. If the umps get it right and throw out Anderson, then he's not there to plunk. So maybe the umps can problem solve better and do their job with the HB issue?

Why would umps protect players on one of the worst teams, who are in a small market? That is really synical, but I think umps would of kicked out a pitcher that hit the cubs 3 times.

[traderumor]

There is no defending Simon, it was a stupid and selfish act. He threw his teammates under the bus there.

This team needs a win, not a moral victory
There's a difference between defending and explaining why things occur. I was doing the latter. The Brewers pitcher was a good team player for intentionally plunking Simon by your measure. Saved a run, killed the rally.

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[Big Klu]

Torres in to pitch for MIL, relieving Anderson.

Duvall K's swinging
Suarez groundout 6-3
Holt K's swinging

Cincinnati 1
Milwaukee 4
Mid 6th

[westofyou]

There's a difference between defending and explaining why things occur. I was doing the latter. The Brewers pitcher was a good team player for intentionally plunking Simon by your measure. Saved a run, killed the rally.

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Oh please, I don't need any mansplaining I'm awake

[RedlegJake]

Simon hitting the pitcher is what got hiom tossed. It was so obviously intentional. Had he picked another batter he might have gotten a warning instead. Dumb.

[traderumor]

Oh please, I don't need any mansplaining I'm awake
Why so suddenly self-righteous?

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[Tom Servo]

Will Eugenio ever get another hit?

[traderumor]

Simon hitting the pitcher is what got hiom tossed. It was so obviously intentional. Had he picked another batter he might have gotten a warning instead. Dumb.
Well, Simon will never be accused of being anything else. Players aren't often as self-controlled as us RZ watching the game.

Anderson's was just as obviously intentional. I don't think the rule reads that its ok to intentionally hit a batter when they are burnt by the squeeze play, does it? The mind-reading was just as possible there.

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[Big Klu]

Cotham in to pitch for the Reds, relieving Morris.

Hill BB
Presley HBP
Broxton K's looking
Perez PH's for Torres
Perez RBI single to LF. Hill scores, Presley to 3rd. 5-1 MIL
Perez steals 2nd
Villar BB

Ramirez in to pitch for the Reds, relieving Cotham

Scooter sac fly to LF, 7SF. Presley scores, 6-1 MIL
Lucroy groundout 4-3 (ball hit up the middle, good play by BP)

Cincinnati 1
Milwaukee 6
End 6th

[PXShaman]

Simon hitting the pitcher is what got hiom tossed. It was so obviously intentional. Had he picked another batter he might have gotten a warning instead. Dumb.

But if Simon did wat Anderson did to the Cubs, he would of been booted do. Cubs might have cleared the benches too.

[WrongVerb]

I'm going to say this: regardless of how bad these players are, they do not look prepared to be on a baseball diamond. I've never bashed Price before, but it just doesn't seem like he's caring one way or another about putting a winning team on the field.

[Strikes Out Looking]

I'm going to say this: regardless of how bad these players are, they do not look prepared to be on a baseball diamond. I've never bashed Price before, but it just doesn't seem like he's caring one way or another about putting a winning team on the field.

The pitchers don't appear to know where home plate is located or what they are supposed to do with it.

[JMO]

Think we can get to 20 straight losses?

['69]

Naming this year's pitching staff will make a helluva trivia question. In November.

All 37 of them?

[BenHayes]

Which month will the Reds break this streak of shame!!!!!!

[Big Klu]

Blazek in to pitch for MIL, replacing Torres

Barnhart doubles to RCF gap
DeJesus PH for Ramirez
DeJesus flyout to CF, 8
Cozart K's swinging
Votto RBI single to RF, Barnhart scores. 6-2 MIL
Phillips single to LF, Votto to 2nd
Bruce RBI single to RF, Votto scores, BP to 3rd, 6-3 MIL
Duvall 3-run HR to LF! BP and Bruce score. Tied 6-6

Mariñez relieves Blazek for MIL

Suarez groundout 5-3

Cincinnati 6
Milwaukee 6
Mid 7th

[TheBigLebowski]

Caleb Cotham is possibly the worst pitcher in the current iteration of this bullpen. He is a really, really bad guy at sports. Especially baseball.

[malcontent]

All 37 of them?
Yep. Miss one, you gotta start over. Way of commemorating the season.

['69]

Sweet!

[Red Raindog]

I'm thinking Duvall is a good find

[JMO]

Who knew that Duvall would be the best player we acquired this past offseason and we didn't get nothing for Frazier and Chapman, LOL

[Tom Servo]

The heck?! I stopped paying attention at 6-1. Love me some Duvall. A two hit game for Votto as well.

[RedsfaninMT]

The heck?! I stopped paying attention at 6-1. Love me some Duvall. A two hit game for Votto as well.

I did the same. Checked in to see what was the score and I see a tied game...and now the bullpen prepares to blow the game again.

[Big Klu]

DeJesus remains in game at 3B
Wood in to pitch, batting 6th
Suarez out of the game

Carter K's
Nieuwenhuis groundout 4-3
Hill broken bat single to SS
Presley flyout to LF, 7

Cincinnati 6
Milwaukee 6
End 7th

[Tom Servo]

I will forever remember 2016 as the year Aaron Hill's Corpse owned the Reds soul.

[westofyou]

Thom has hit it today


College Football-Check
Arizona- Check
Sacrifice Fly - Check
Music - Check (3 Dog Night)


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[malcontent]

Thom has hit it today


College Football-Check
Arizona- Check
Sacrifice Fly - Check
Music - Check (3 Dig Night)


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And Bee Gees/Saturday Night Fever.

You can't stop him. You can only hope to contain him.

[westofyou]

And Bee Gees/Saturday Night Fever.

You can't stop him. You can only hope to contain him.

Now he's adamant in his ridicule for changing the strike zone... Whoa... Now NFL

The games tied and he's segueing into NFL to Vegas

[Big Klu]

Holt K's looking
Barnhart groundout 4-3
DeJesus K's looking

Cincinnati 6
Milwaukee 6
Mid 8th

[Big Klu]

Thom has hit it today


College Football-Check
Arizona- Check
Sacrifice Fly - Check
Music - Check (3 Dog Night)


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He has also tried to convince Jim Day to play the fool on Bernie Brewer's slide.

The only thing he hasn't done yet is wax eloquent on family and military.

[Tom Servo]

He has also tried to convince Jim Day to play the fool on Bernie Brewer's slide.

The only thing he hasn't done yet is wax eloquent on family and military.
He also said "that's good stuff" after a Jim Day report, which I know because I said it at the exact same time, knowing he was going to say it.

[Big Klu]

Flores PH for Broxton
Flores ground single to CF
Braun PH for Mariñez
Braun broken bat 6-4-yessiree-3!
Villar K's swinging

Cincinnati 6
Milwaukee 6
End 8th

[traderumor]

Thom has hit it today


College Football-Check
Arizona- Check
Sacrifice Fly - Check
Music - Check (3 Dog Night)


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Craig Counsell hero worship-check

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[Big Klu]

He also said "that's good stuff" after a Jim Day report, which I know because I said it at the exact same time, knowing he was going to say it.

He has also mentioned LeBron and the Cavaliers, though he hasn't yet mentioned Urban and Ohio St. football.

[westofyou]

Reds allow a base runner in the 8th inning and actually get out of it.

This must be how others teams fans feel like


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['69]

He started talking about Braun getting someone fired and then clammed up

[Tom Servo]

Death knell every time I say it about one of these guys, but Blake Wood has looked halfway decent of late.

['69]

Cozart got drilled, replay showed wasn't that bad.

[Big Klu]

Flores remains in game in RF
Nieuwenhuis moves from RF to CF
Jeffress in to pitch for MIL

Cozart HBP
Votto FC grounder to 2nd, Cozart out 4-6
DatDudeBB
Bruce ground single to LF to load bases
Duvall 6-4-3 DP

['69]

Bases loaded for Duvall, 1 out.

[_Sir_Charles_]

*sigh* bases loaded...double play. Of course.

['69]

Welp gidp

[Tom Servo]

lol double play of course

[traderumor]

And the futility continues.

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[Knightro28]

10902

Some of those green triangles in the middle of the zone... Ouch!

['69]

Interesting, review on the out at 2nd

Safe! Run scored

[_Sir_Charles_]

WHAT!?! Review and overturned. Reds up 7-6 now. I'm STUNNED!

[Red Raindog]

And the futility continues.

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the Reds are still in a game - and the Reds' won a challenge!

[Tom Servo]

I did think in real time that Gennett wasn't really near the bag, but I certainly didn't think there would be a review and overturn. Guess it's only fair after the Votto call in the first.

[757690]

What a joke this review process has become. Reds were out of challenges, and yet still were able to challenge. And most SS don't actually touch the bag on double plays, nor should they need to.

[Knightro28]

That could be the game winning run. Wow. Thanks Chase Utley.

[tomnuetten]

wow....

it was a typical reds moment this year and than for a change something unexpected good happend....

weird feeling. this will end with a walkoff win for the brewers anyway...

[Knightro28]

What a joke this review process has become. Reds were out of challenges, and yet still were able to challenge. And most SS don't actually touch the bag on double plays, nor should they need to.

It was a crew chief review. It was also the second baseman, not shortstop.

[Big Klu]

lol double play of course

Not so fast, my friend!

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/~/media/AF57F24049264F6384E9465609C200E2.ashx?w=251

[tomnuetten]

What a joke this review process has become. Reds were out of challenges, and yet still were able to challenge. And most SS don't actually touch the bag on double plays, nor should they need to.

and why shouldn´t they need to!?

[Tom Servo]

that was just an awful drag bunt attempt by Billy

[westofyou]

and why shouldn´t they need to!?

Because they might get plowed into ... Oh wait, that's no longer allowed.

Never mind

['69]

Billy batting LH vs. Suarez...hmm. :help:

[RedlegJake]

What a joke this review process has become. Reds were out of challenges, and yet still were able to challenge. And most SS don't actually touch the bag on double plays, nor should they need to.


and why shouldn´t they need to!?

Tom's right - and the new I believe the new rule at stated players would have to touch the bag since runner's ability to interfere was being regulated. If the runner can't take you out then you need to touch the bag.

['69]

What a joke this review process has become. Reds were out of challenges, and yet still were able to challenge. And most SS don't actually touch the bag on double plays, nor should they need to.

What in the world, lol

[Big Klu]

Flores remains in game in RF
Nieuwenhuis moves from RF to CF
Jeffress in to pitch for MIL

Cozart HBP
Votto FC grounder to 2nd, Cozart out 4-6
DatDudeBB
Bruce ground single to LF to load bases
Duvall 6-4-3 DP (Replay overturned!)
Duvall RBI groundout 6-4-3. Votto scores. Phillips and Bruce to 3rd & 2nd. 7-6 CIN

Goforth relieves Jeffress for MIL
Hamilton PH for Wood
Hamilton flyout to LF, 7

Cincinnati 7
Milwaukee 6
Mid 9th

[Tom Servo]

I think I would have gone with Ohlendorf here against Lucroy and the order here. Get it done, Tony.

[tomnuetten]

Because they might get plowed into ... Oh wait, that's no longer allowed.

Never mind

so catchers shouldn´t have to actually tag the runner because he might get run over? I know there is a risk, but it is rather dumb to allow double plays without ever touching the base...

[westofyou]

so catchers shouldn´t have to actually tag the runner because he might get run over? I know there is a risk, but it is rather dumb to allow double plays without ever touching the base...

Yep, and in the past they could be off in further and get the call

[WrongVerb]

Sick slider from Cingrani. If he can do that consistently he's going to make a fantastic closer.

[RedlegJake]

so catchers shouldn´t have to actually tag the runner because he might get run over? I know there is a risk, but it is rather dumb to allow double plays without ever touching the base...

They've allowed the near and close thing on forces at second for ages - until the new rule was instituted I agreed with it. But as WoY says - if there is now no danger the guy can plow into you then you should have to actually touch the bag

[Tom Servo]

Cingrani blows Lucroy away for the 2nd out!

[Big Klu]

Hamilton remains in the game in CF
Holt moves from CF to LF
Cingrani now pitching, batting 5th
Duvall out of the game

Scoter K's swinging
Lucroy K's swinging
Carter BB
Maldonado PH for Nieuwenhuis
Maldonado K's looking

ATOBTTR!

[Tom Servo]

Classic Tony C walk to Chris Carter with two outs.

[RedlegJake]

Classic Tony C walk to Chris Carter with two outs.

Well it can't be made to seem too easy

[WrongVerb]

Kinda pitched around Carter there.

[757690]

and why shouldn´t they need to!?

For the record, I am listening on the radio, so I don't know how close he was. If he was nowhere near the bag, that's a good overturn. But if it looks like he touched it with his foot with the naked eye, but only with close up, slow-mo, can you tell he missed it, I think that is a misuse of replay. It's like the tag at second base, where the slide takes the runner off the base for a split second, and only through replay can you tell.

I am all for using replay to overturn obvious mistakes, but ones that can only be spotted with frame by frame, slo-mo and extreme zoom ins, shouldn't be called.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Reds win!

*faints dead away*

[Tom Servo]

THE STREAK IS OVER

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BkzGTldIYAAGY5C.jpg

We're good again! :beerme:

[757690]

It was a crew chief review. It was also the second baseman, not shortstop.

But the crew chief only started the review because the Reds protested it. Why is that different from using one of their reviews?

[RedsfaninMT]

For the record, I am listening on the radio, so I don't know how close he was. If he was nowhere near the bag, that's a good overturn. But if it looks like he touched it with his foot with the naked eye, but only with close up, slow-mo, can you tell he missed it, I think that is a misuse of replay. It's like the tag at second base, where the slide takes the runner off the base for a split second, and only through replay can you tell.

I am all for using replay to overturn obvious mistakes, but ones that can only be spotted with frame by frame, slo-mo and extreme zoom ins, shouldn't be called.

I am not able to hear or see the game, and as such, I would never criticize a ruling by an umpire.

[Reds]

We got lucky on that review. He picked his foot up off the bag like.. 1/10th of a second too early. Honestly, i think that's a call that shouldn't have been overturned.

[_Sir_Charles_]

But the crew chief only started the review because the Reds protested it. Why is that different from using one of their reviews?

Because the ump could simply ignore Price if he wants to in that case. Clearly, the ump thought it was iffy enough to look at again.

[Tom Servo]

Brewers got a call overturned in the first because Votto's heel was hovering over the base. No sympathy.

[_Sir_Charles_]

While I've never been a fan of the Save stat...the fact that we only have 5 as a team is pretty staggering.

[757690]

I am not able to hear or see the game, and as such, I would never criticize a ruling by an umpire.

I was listening to Uecker, and he said it was too close to overturn.

['69]

Whatever, the luck pendulum had to begin to swing the other way at some point. It was pretty much a done deal when the Brewers sent up a .097 batter to pinch hit in the bottom of the 9th.

[PuffyPig]

What a joke this review process has become. Reds were out of challenges, and yet still were able to challenge. And most SS don't actually touch the bag on double plays, nor should they need to.

Actually, since the rules against sliding into the fielder at second has been altered, they now require the fielder to touch the base.

It's been that way all year.

[RedlegJake]

Could this comeback win be a harbinger of new things to come?




No? I didn't think so either....

[757690]

Brewers got a call overturned in the first because Votto's heel was hovering over the base. No sympathy.

Right, and that one should not have been overturned either.

[tomnuetten]

For the record, I am listening on the radio, so I don't know how close he was. If he was nowhere near the bag, that's a good overturn. But if it looks like he touched it with his foot with the naked eye, but only with close up, slow-mo, can you tell he missed it, I think that is a misuse of replay. It's like the tag at second base, where the slide takes the runner off the base for a split second, and only through replay can you tell.

I am all for using replay to overturn obvious mistakes, but ones that can only be spotted with frame by frame, slo-mo and extreme zoom ins, shouldn't be called.

first of all: I find it rather interesting to make a statement like yours above without even watching the scene... Hard to judge the league for a situation you listened to on the radio...

second: where do you draw the line? How can you say that one mistake is an obvious one and another is not. If nobody saw the situation in real time I doubt that they looked at it in slow motion again. Obviously someone thought it was "obvious" for him...

the reason to have a review is to minimalize mistakes made by umpires that effect the outcome of the game. If a player doesn´t step on the bag, the runner is not out => it doesn´t matter if he missed it by a feet, a yard or a milimeter... he missed it => runner is safe

[RedsfaninMT]

I was listening to Uecker, and he said it was too close to overturn.

So why come on here and post that it was a play that should never be called?

If you listened to the Pirates homer announcers, you'd be convinced the Reds were head-hunting them in every single plate appearance.

[PuffyPig]

We got lucky on that review. He picked his foot up off the bag like.. 1/10th of a second too early. Honestly, i think that's a call that shouldn't have been overturned.

You have to remember, the review guys may have another view(s) we don't see. Since the play would not be overturned with our clear cut evidence, you can pretty much assume that there was.

[RedlegJake]

I was listening to Uecker, and he said it was too close to overturn.

LOL Of course says it was too close to overturn. If it had been against the Reds Marty and Thom should say the same thing (but likely wouldn't). Uecker is a homer.

[PuffyPig]

I was listening to Uecker, and he said it was too close to overturn.

You do know that Uecker may not be completely unbiased in his reporting?

[757690]

Because the ump could simply ignore Price if he wants to in that case. Clearly, the ump thought it was iffy enough to look at again.

If the crew chief thought it was iffy, he would have started an crew chief review on his own. The fact that Price had to protest first, suggests that the crew chief did not think it was all that iffy at first, but was talked into it. If a team is out of challenges, they should not be allowed to ask for a crew chief review. That negates the entire meaning and value of only having a limited number of challenges.

[Raisor]

The neighborhood play is gone. They have to touch the bag.

['69]

I was listening to Uecker, and he said it was too close to overturn.

Not sure I trust his objectiveness there. Or his eyes.

[PuffyPig]

I'm a little confused with why so many of you seem to think it's unfair the Reds actually win a game?

The Reds are allowed to catch an odd break you know.

[RedsfaninMT]

If the crew chief thought it was iffy, he would have started an crew chief review on his own. The fact that Price had to protest first, suggests that the crew chief did not think it was all that iffy at first, but was talked into it. If a team is out of challenges, they should not be allowed to ask for a crew chief review. That negates the entire meaning and value of only having a limited number of challenges.

But that's how the rules are set up. Again, it is borderline absurd TO ME to argue about a play you didn't see based off an opposing team's radio commentator.

[757690]

I'm a little confused with why so many of you seem to think it's unfair the Reds actually win a game?

The Reds are allowed to catch an odd break you know.

I'm thrilled the Reds won. I just think the way replay is used is a joke these days. It both hurt and helped the Reds.

[RedlegJake]

If the crew chief thought it was iffy, he would have started an crew chief review on his own. The fact that Price had to protest first, suggests that the crew chief did not think it was all that iffy at first, but was talked into it. If a team is out of challenges, they should not be allowed to ask for a crew chief review. That negates the entire meaning and value of only having a limited number of challenges.

The rules clearly state after the 6th inning a manager out of challenges can ask the crew chief. The crew chief does NOT have to honor the request, and the crew chief can ask for replay whether a manager asks for it or not. Also there is no limit on crew chief reviews.

[tomnuetten]

We got lucky on that review. He picked his foot up off the bag like.. 1/10th of a second too early. Honestly, i think that's a call that shouldn't have been overturned.

but where do you draw the line? if his foot is 7/10th of a second too early off the base what do you do?

at which timeframe it is fine to overturn this kind of play? For me there is only one "fair" option: he has to touch the base with the ball => doesn´t matter how close it was, if it wasn´t it isn´t an out, every other "rule" would be unreliable

[757690]

But that's how the rules are set up.

Right, the way the rules are set up are a joke.

[Raisor]

Right, the way the rules are set up are a joke.

Why?

Get the call right.

[757690]

but where do you draw the line? if his foot is 7/10th of a second too early off the base what do you do?

at which timeframe it is fine to overturn this kind of play? For me there is only one "fair" option: he has to touch the base with the ball => doesn´t matter how close it was, if it wasn´t it isn´t an out, every other "rule" would be unreliable

Easy. I would put a 30 second time limit on the review process. If they can't see it within that time frame, it's not obvious enough to overturn.

[RedsfaninMT]

Right, the way the rules are set up are a joke.

I'm confused by your point. So is the problem with the rule, or that Ueker said the umps got it wrong, so it was wrong.

[757690]

Why?

Get the call right.

I agree with that, which I why I would get rid of the entire "challenge" process. Have an extra umpire at every game who monitors the review booth. If he sees something fishy, he stops the game and checks. No manager challenges at all.

['69]

Lots of small silver linings, outstanding plays by Suarez, Bruce, Duvall, Phillips. Solid outings for Simon, Wood, Cingrani. The "core" + Duvall all inolved in the 2 rallies

[757690]

I'm confused by your point. So is the problem with the rule, or that Ueker said the umps got it wrong, so it was wrong.

Well I never said they got the call wrong. I was upset with the process. On a side note, I don't think infielders have to actually touch the bag. If they are close enough that it looks like they did to the naked eye, no need to overturn it.

[RedsfaninMT]

I agree with that, which I why I would get rid of the entire "challenge" process. Have an extra umpire at every game who monitors the review booth. If he sees something fishy, he stops the game and checks. No manager challenges at all.

Your original statement was "And most SS don't actually touch the bag on double plays, nor should they need to."

If there was a replay official in the booth, and he had access to multiple replays that show the bag wasn't touched, AND that happened within 30 seconds, then you would be OK with the overturn?

[tomnuetten]

Easy. I would put a 30 second time limit on the review process. If they can't see it within that time frame, it's not obvious enough to overturn.

which isn´t reliable either.. if someone is just a little bit more hesitant than others he´ll need more time than others even if the decision is more obvious than other situation.. They are also dependent on the right video angle => it might take a while to get the "obvious" camera perspective...

[Big Klu]

Lots of small silver linings, outstanding plays by Suarez, Bruce, Duvall, Phillips. Solid outings for Simon, Wood, Cingrani. The "core" + Duvall all inolved in the 2 rallies

I love the smell of RBI's in Milwaukee. Smells like...victory.

http://www.monologuedb.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Robert-Duvall-Kilgore-Apocalypse-Now.jpg

[tomnuetten]

Well I never said they got the call wrong. I was upset with the process. On a side note, I don't think infielders have to actually touch the bag. If they are close enough that it looks like they did to the naked eye, no need to overturn it.

if in a basketball game the shooter takes a 2 pointer but it looks like he was behind the 3 point line to the naked eye you´d be ok with giving him 3 points aswell?

I don´t get it, there are rules and I don´t think that it only has to look to the naked eye like you play within the rules... why reviewing home runs? if it looked like one it should be called a homerun....

[Big Klu]

On pace for 53-109.

[tomnuetten]

On pace for 53-109.

we´re good again ;)

[757690]

Your original statement was "And most SS don't actually touch the bag on double plays, nor should they need to."

If there was a replay official in the booth, and he had access to multiple replays that show the bag wasn't touched, AND that happened within 30 seconds, then you would be OK with the overturn?

Yes. You can't go frame by frame in 30 seconds.

[757690]

if in a basketball game the shooter takes a 2 pointer but it looks like he was behind the 3 point line to the naked eye you´d be ok with giving him 3 points aswell?

I don´t get it, there are rules and I don´t think that it only has to look to the naked eye like you play within the rules... why reviewing home runs? if it looked like one it should be called a homerun....

I don't follow basketball at all, but yes, I think if it's that close that you need to frame by frame to see it, it doesn't matter either way.

[Raisor]

Well I never said they got the call wrong. I was upset with the process. On a side note, I don't think infielders have to actually touch the bag. If they are close enough that it looks like they did to the naked eye, no need to overturn it.

They actually do have to touch the bag.

What a weird argument.

[757690]

They actually do have to touch the bag.

What a weird argument.

I just think replay should only be used for obvious mistakes by the ump. If it looks like the fielder touched the bag, or the tagged the runner, or the runner touched the base, with the naked eye, from every angle, then it's so close that we might as well go with whatever the ump called on the field. I don't like using replay to overturn what an ump or anyone else watching, can't see. If for no other reason, than it takes too long.

[Raisor]

I just think replay should only be used for obvious mistakes by the ump. If it looks like the fielder touched the bag, or the tagged the runner, or the runner touched the base, with the naked eye, from every angle, then it's so close that we might as well go with whatever the ump called on the field. I don't like using replay to overturn what an ump or anyone else watching, can't see. If for no other reason, than it takes too long.

Have you actually watched the play yet?

[WVRedsFan]

I am in Charlotte for the Big 600, so I figured that watching the Reds was not going to happen, but I decided to see if it was on Fox Sports Go, and it was. HD picture and good reception. And a win. I think today proved that Suarez and Duvall are the cream of the crop gained in trades. Maybe Finnegan, the jury is still out on him. Great to win a game. As for why many were upset at the call and the win? Still chasing that top prospect. Fool's Gold
IMHO.

[757690]

Have you actually watched the play yet?

Yes. It was way too close to overturn. Just like Votto's was too close earlier.

Btw, it turns old Ol' Ueck was right ;)

[Raisor]

Yes. It was way too close to overturn. Just like Votto's was too close earlier.

Btw, it turns old Ol' Ueck was right ;)

Couldn't disagree more. Clearly took his foot off too soon.

[757690]

Couldn't disagree more. Clearly took his foot off too soon.

Which you could only tell with the magic of replay. Overturning ticky-tacky calls like that only slow the game down. It was close enough that it shouldn't matter, or make anyone upset either way.

[Raisor]

Which you could only tell with the magic of replay. Overturning ticky-tacky calls like that only slow the game down. It was close enough that it shouldn't matter, or make anyone upset either way.

Except he was safe.

They have the technology. I'm fine with them using it. Using replay in this case allowed them to get the call right.

[westofyou]

5 pages of despair, 2 pages of ripping Thom and enjoying the comeback 3 pages of a debate started by someone listening to the game about an eyeball call being reversed.

#redszone

[757690]

Except he was safe.

They have the technology. I'm fine with them using it. Using replay in this case allowed them to get the call right.

I'm fine with using the technology. But if we are meshing old school umps and the technology, there should be a compromise. Otherwise, just use technology and remove the human element altogether.

[Raisor]

I'm fine with using the technology. But if we are meshing old school umps and the technology, there should be a compromise. Otherwise, just use technology and remove the human element altogether.

Right now the technology is backing up the human element.

In this case the human missed the call. The Reds (humans) went to the umpires (also human) and said "hey we think you missed this one. Can you take a look?" The umps (humans) who in this case did not have to send it to replay agreed with the Reds that the call needed to be looked at. Humans in a whole different part of the world reviewed it and said, yep, the humans on the field missed this one, but we can fix it.

[westofyou]

And the inhuman 2016 Reds reaped the benefits and ended the inhumane losing streak


No Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[757690]

Right now the technology is backing up the human element.

In this case the human missed the call. The Reds (humans) went to the umpires (also human) and said "hey we think you missed this one. Can you take a look?" The umps (humans) who in this case did not have to send it to replay agreed with the Reds that the call needed to be looked at. Humans in a whole different part of the world reviewed it and said, yep, the humans on the field missed this one, but we can fix it.

So you agree that there already is a compromise in terms of combining the human and technological element. Great.

I just think that part of that compromise should be trusting the umps on the field, unless the technology shows an egregious error. The point of fact that no matter which way you go, all technology, all human, or somewhere in between, they aren't going to get every call right. We just need to figure out which calls need to be overturned to uphold the integrity of the game. I think whichever way they ruled on that call in today's game, the integrity of the game was fine. No need to even look at it.

[Raisor]

if it wasn't a questionable call they wouldn't have looked at it.

[757690]

if it wasn't a questionable call they wouldn't have looked at it.

They only reviewed it because the Reds protested. They protested, because...

C. Trent RosecransVerified account
‏@ctrent
Video director Rob Coughlin said he watches every play at 2nd base because of new rule. Saw this one quickly. He told Price, Riggleman

[Raisor]

They only reviewed it because the Reds protested. They protested, because...

C. Trent RosecransVerified account
‏@ctrent
Video director Rob Coughlin said he watches every play at 2nd base because of new rule. Saw this one quickly. He told Price, Riggleman

As they should.

Seriously man. They corrected a bang bang play. It's exactly what replay is for.

[757690]

As they should.

Seriously man. They corrected a bang bang play. It's exactly what replay is for.

I don't think it's best used for bang-bang plays that can't be determined quickly.

Let me ask this. If the Reds hadn't protested, and the call stood, would you or any Reds fan been upset?

[Raisor]

I don't think it's best used for bang-bang plays that can't be determined quickly.

Let me ask this. If the Reds hadn't protested, and the call stood, would you or any Reds fan been upset?

Yes because they got the call wrong and a replay, which we would have seen, showed it.

[757690]

Yes because they got the call wrong and a replay, which we would have seen, showed it.

We only saw the replay because the Reds protested. The TV crews actually went to commercial, because it looked like it was a clean double play. Outside of the Reds video booth guy, no one thought he missed the bag.

[Raisor]

We only saw the replay because the Reds protested. The TV crews actually went to commercial, because it looked like it was a clean double play. Outside of the Reds video booth guy, no one thought he missed the bag.

And the video guy was right.

Is it your argument that replay should only be used when it isn't needed?

[757690]

And the video guy was right.

Is it your argument that replay should only be used when it isn't needed?

The Denkinger call is good example of when it should be used. Pretty much everyone in the ballpark knew it was bad call, or at least might be. Fix those. If no one is upset seeing it live, let it be.

[WrongVerb]

How in the world is a call that went in the Reds favor controversial? Weird.

That said, how in the world is there a "zone" between calls that are obvious and calls that are too close to determine? Where is that line?

[Raisor]

So should teams be able to review the video prior to challenging?

[757690]

How in the world is a call that went in the Reds favor controversial? Weird.

That said, how in the world is there a "zone" between calls that are obvious and calls that are too close to determine? Where is that line?

We already have that line. We are just discussing where to draw it.

[Raisor]

Let's not forget 75769016 was upset about the call after hearing the Brewers announcer complain about it prior to his seeing it.

I'm going to ahead and suggest that is the oddest thing about this.

Bruce was safe.
Replay showed he was safe

End of story.

[757690]

So should teams be able to review the video prior to challenging?

I already explained what I would like the system to be. Here it is again.

An extra ump in a booth at every game. He stops play if he sees anything worth looking at. He has 30 seconds to make a decisIon. If he can't make it in that time, the call stands. No manager challenges, no crew chief reviews.

[757690]

Let's not forget 75769016 was upset about the call after hearing the Brewers announcer complain about it prior to his seeing it.

I'm going to ahead and suggest that is the oddest thing about this.

Bruce was safe.
Replay showed he was safe

End of story.

Let's not forget that the Brewers announcers were 100% accurate with their call of the play. Or that I wasn't upset with the actual call, but with the replay system and its rules.

[Raisor]

Let's not forget that the Brewers announcers were 100% accurate with their call of the play. Or that I wasn't upset with the actual call, but with the replay system and its rules.

Except they weren't accurate because there was enough evidence to overturn the call. What with it being overturned.

[Big Klu]

So should teams be able to review the video prior to challenging?

My answer to that is no. Umpires make the call with the naked eye. Managers (with input from their coaches and players on the field and in the dugout) should challenge based on what they see with the naked eye. Then use the technology to be the arbiter.

[Raisor]

My answer to that is no. Umpires make the call with the naked eye. Managers (with input from their coaches and players on the field and in the dugout) should challenge based on what they see with the naked eye. Then use the technology to be the arbiter.

Then you'll see way more challenges.

[757690]

Except they weren't accurate because there was enough evidence to overturn the call. What with it being overturned.

They were 100% accurate. They said the replay shows he missed the bag, but infielders miss the bag all the time, and going over every play will be too much.

[Raisor]

They were 100% accurate. They said the replay shows he missed the bag, but infielders miss the bag all the time, and going over every play will be too much.

The new rule is that the "neighborhood play" is reviewable.

In other words, you have to touch the bag.

[757690]

The new rule is that the "neighborhood play" is reviewable.

In other words, you have to touch the bag.

This has nothing to do with the neighborhood play. It's about plays that you can't tell are called wrong until you look at the replay.

[Raisor]

This has nothing to do with the neighborhood play. It's about plays that you can't tell are called wrong until you look at the replay.

Which is the point of replay.

Get the call right.

[Wonderful Monds]

Thank god Mr. Devil's Advocate himself showed up to piss on the parade!

:lol:

[757690]

Thank god Mr. Devil's Advocate himself showed up to piss on the parade!

:lol:

To be fair, when I made my original post, I just assumed the Reds pen would blow the game. Had I any idea that the Reds would actually hold a lead, I wouldn't have said anything ;)

[Wonderful Monds]

I hate this team at the moment. If it wasn't for their bad fundamentals they'd have no fundamentals at all

I dare you to look in a mirror and say that again 3 times.

BadFundamentals...BadFundamentals..

*KRISPy!*

[ScotlandRed]

That last pitch thrown by Cingrani might be the best iv seen him throw since he was made a reliever. Pretty much unhittable